paladin heal change recommendation

[zubad]

Per the post on crit changes, I wanted to start a thread which actually focused just on the communities recommendation for future change. Jael posted this before which I will use as a starting point: the percentage i would give for each heal would be "20-30% for holy aid 20-25% for prayer of healing 30-40% for demonstration of faith 60-70% for sacrament of bayle 90-100% for lay on hands" I myself would go holy aid 20% recast 10s cast time 1s prayer of healing 50% recast 30s cast time instant demonstration of faith 50% recast 30s cast time instant sacrament of bayle 60% recast 90s cast time instant LoH 100% recast 5min cast time instant I think if the goal is to change our heals to be purely for spike damage, this would get the job done. I dont believe the recast times are unrealistic and would result in the use as being more strategic than just spamming. My initial assumption would be that this would result in a potential (not theoretical) heals per second around 1500 which is less than half of any healer i have grouped with raiding. Looking at the avoidance report on my last raid of the guards stoneskins being well over this hps i think this should be fine.

[Gungo]

<p>I am not here to nerf your class. But are you even mildly serious with these suggestions?</p><p>But you do realize sony doesnt just balance the game vs raids?</p><p>I am sure when xelgad said he was thinking of making LOH % based he wasnt talking about all your heals =P.</p><p>These changes would completely overpower paladins in pvp, solo, heroic content. if they nerfed heals because crusaders were soloing heroic content do you honestly think they would make heals even more overpowered?</p><p>Expect LOH to be a 50% heal before potency and before AA's.</p>

[Hikinami]

<p>LoH should be bigger than 50. Same with Divine favor.</p><p>As for the other heals most of them need to be fundamentally changed instead of just swapping numbers. Boli's got good suggestions.</p>

[Gungo]

<p>a 20% heal every 10 seconds without potency increases or spell reuse reduction?</p><p>Put the crack pipe down. Paladins would heal better then any other healer in game. Might as well delete the entire priest archtype.</p><p>You also realize that 50% heal is bigger then ANY other classes heal in game once you add normal amount of potency (50%+)  you are looking at a ~75%+ heal.</p>

[zubad]

<p>i am assuming that potency and crit bonus will not affect these heal recommendations.  this is what they should be regardless of potency, abi mod etc.</p><p>If you want to make it so that you can achieve these numbers with a few aa's all the better, just a recommendation.</p>

[Gungo]

<p>Potency still effects all heals including fights even if it didnt 20% heal every 20 secs=god mode. There was a reason soe never added complete heal in the game from eq1. </p>

[Boli32]

<p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>a 20% heal every 10 seconds without potency increases or spell reuse reduction?</p><p>Put the crack pipe down. Paladins would heal better then any other healer in game. Might as well delete the entire priest archtype.</p><p>You also realize that 50% heal is <strong>bigger then ANY other classes heal in game </strong>once you add normal amount of potency (50%+)  you are looking at a ~75%+ heal.</p></blockquote><p>Monk's mend is 54% on a 3min recast.</p><p>Paladin's current LoH is a 10-11k (progressivly less and less % of health as we gear/buff up.) on a 5min recast. It also costs 473 power.</p><p>and % based heals are no longer effected by potency... and since they cannot crit either the % given is static now.</p>

[Jeal]

<p>heals are our ONLY form of defense outside of aa's.. they need to be made useful.. calling us idiots for wanting our abilities to be useful is pretty weak. and 20% heal every 20 seconds is not godmode are you kidding me... do you even play the same game i'm playing jesus. we CURRENTLY have what amounts to be about a 7-10% heal every 5 seconds.. i guess that makes us godmode now... oh wait.. no it doesn't cause its interrupted and doesn't even REMOTELY come close to countering damage done to us..</p><p>loh which i assume i have more potency than most ends up around 11-13k range for me.. thats a 28-33% heal in raid on a 5 min recast... at least get your numbers in the ballpark if you're going to criticize us.</p><p>another thing... currently our heals do NOT scale to raid functioning.. if you take away our abililty to crit heal.. then how else do you plan on scaling our heals to the value of a raid buffed tank other than to make them percentage based..? i've thought it over and unless they do some MAJOR re-evaluating of how our heals work that is the most efficient solution.. pick a percentage that is reasonable and go from there. </p><p>and before you scream but potency, it should help!!  potency is EXTREMELY marginal when you don't have a critical hit.. if no one critted and only had potency we'd be seeing wizards still nuking for 20k eof style...  give me a freaking break...</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Boli32 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>a 20% heal every 10 seconds without potency increases or spell reuse reduction?</p><p>Put the crack pipe down. Paladins would heal better then any other healer in game. Might as well delete the entire priest archtype.</p><p>You also realize that 50% heal is <strong>bigger then ANY other classes heal in game </strong>once you add normal amount of potency (50%+)  you are looking at a ~75%+ heal.</p></blockquote><p>Monk's mend is 54% on a 3min recast.</p><p>Paladin's current LoH is a 10-11k (progressivly less and less % of health as we gear/buff up.) on a 5min recast. It also costs 473 power.</p><p>and % based heals are no longer effected by potency... and since they cannot crit either the % given is static now.</p></blockquote><p>WITHOUT AA and or potency it's base amount is significantly less. </p><p>Percent heals ARE effected by potency. Learn to play the game before you make comments about mechanics you obviously know nothing about. I have 2 % based heals its is ridiculously easy to test. </p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Jeal@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>heals are our ONLY form of defense outside of aa's.. they need to be made useful.. calling us idiots for wanting our abilities to be useful is pretty weak. and 20% heal every 20 seconds is not godmode are you kidding me... do you even play the same game i'm playing jesus. we CURRENTLY have what amounts to be about a 7-10% heal every 5 seconds.. i guess that makes us godmode now... oh wait.. no it doesn't cause its interrupted and doesn't even REMOTELY come close to countering damage done to us..</p><p>loh which i assume i have more potency than most ends up around 11-13k range for me.. thats a 28-33% heal in raid on a 5 min recast... at least get your numbers in the ballpark if you're going to criticize us.</p><p>another thing... currently our heals do NOT scale to raid functioning.. if you take away our abililty to crit heal.. then how else do you plan on scaling our heals to the value of a raid buffed tank other than to make them percentage based..? i've thought it over and unless they do some MAJOR re-evaluating of how our heals work that is the most efficient solution.. pick a percentage that is reasonable and go from there. </p><p>and before you scream but potency, it should help!!  potency is EXTREMELY marginal when you don't have a critical hit.. if no one critted and only had potency we'd be seeing wizards still nuking for 20k eof style...  give me a freaking break...</p></blockquote><p>It was 20% every 10 secs without reuse reduction or potency and yes you are an idiot if you think thats even remotely not overpowered. that is better then ANY priest heal in game. </p><p>I am not talking about your current LOH, please learn to read. I was talking about how they should make LOH ~50%+ heal. </p><p>Potency is NOT marginal. Potency was even more powerful then crit bonus on % based effects. Its an exponential increase. Got 50% base add 50% potency and now you have a 75% effect.</p><p>You are going to get % based heals there is nothing wrong with that, but I wouldnt expect them to be able to be spammed. Xelgad even stated he was going to INCREASE the reuse of these spells. Sure LOH may end up as a 100% heal on a 5 min timer. That would NOT be overpowered because of its reuse and you might receive another heal thats like a 20% heal every 45-60 seconds. </p><p>But having like 10 seperate percent based heals with (1) 20% heal on a 10 sec base reuse timer able to be spammed over and over. Is retardely overpowered in ALL nonraid CONTENT.</p><p>It is pointless arguing with you about this because this crap will never happen. It would make paladins better heals then most priests in raids. </p>

[Jeal]

<p>and i'm told to read by someone who doesn't know how... amazing... just amazing.</p><p>and no its not better than any priest heal in the game.. any priest heal in the game is affected by crit bonus and therefor exponentially uses potency where as ours is more of a tack on... completely moronic response... unbelievable.. i can't even begin to comprehend where your thoughts are when you type this stuff</p><p>please tell me my 3k base heals upgraded to 4k is not marginal some more sir.. good god</p><p>i love how you quote me and yet don't reply to anything i've said.. just spout more nonsense which has nothing to do with what we're talking about... and when you say overpowered it sickens me.. cause i don't believe you know enough about the game to even make that assessment with the crap you're spewing</p>

[zubad]

<p>you want to know what is overpowered, stoneskins!  I get tired of seeing all these posts from bruisers and guards on the pally forums trolling saying our heals are op when they each get MULTIPLE stoneskins which make them IMMUNE to an attack which in hard more will be 20 to 40k per hit mitigated at times!  So maybe instead of spending your time trying to nerf another class, maybe you should be spending time justifying your heal parses.  I will be sure to post some raid parses next week on the total stoneskin estimated heal amounts from ACT on the bruiser and guard forums so that you can explain why your hps are better than most healers in the game!</p><p>Please go back to your bruiser forum and do something constructive pls.</p>

[Ryai]

<p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It was 20% every 10 secs without reuse reduction or potency and yes you are an idiot if you think thats even remotely not overpowered. that is better then ANY priest heal in game. </p><p>I am not talking about your current LOH, please learn to read. I was talking about how they should make LOH ~50%+ heal. </p><p>Potency is NOT marginal. Potency was even more powerful then crit bonus on % based effects. Its an exponential increase. Got 50% base add 50% potency and now you have a 75% effect.</p><p>You are going to get % based heals there is nothing wrong with that, but I wouldnt expect them to be able to be spammed. Xelgad even stated he was going to INCREASE the reuse of these spells. Sure LOH may end up as a 100% heal on a 5 min timer. That would NOT be overpowered because of its reuse and you might receive another heal thats like a 20% heal every 45-60 seconds. </p><p>But having like 10 seperate percent based heals with (1) 20% heal on a 10 sec base reuse timer able to be spammed over and over. Is retardely overpowered in ALL nonraid CONTENT.</p><p>It is pointless arguing with you about this because this crap will never happen. It would make paladins better heals then most priests in raids. </p></blockquote><p>There is a reason that power exists. Paladin heals are extremely power intensive at best, also easily interrupted. In the current state of paladin heals, potency is marginal, simply due to how the crit mechanic works. If you have ever actually played a paladin, you would know that casting paladin heals rapidly drains your power. If the power cost remained similar to where it was before, it would not be even remotely unbalanced. Perhaps you should learn something about other classes before acting like you know how they play.</p><p>Also, a 100% heal every 3 minutes does exist. Bloodletter anyone?</p>

[Monkums]

<p>I'm a Paladin that hasn't raided since KoS, so my opinion is strictly from non-raiding standpoint. I generally solo or duo with my boyfriend's Warlock so I have to rely on my heals a lot to get the job done.  The heal crit change has had a severe impact on what we do.  I'm decently geared for someone who doesn't raid and my potency sits right around 30%.  I'm easily burning through most of my power on heals now, since I have to cast them three times as much to get the same results.</p><p>Instead of the percentage based heals, I would be happy with larger heals on the same timers but with a reduced power cost.  I've always felt Lay on Hands should be a complete heal but I'm not sure we'll ever see that.</p><p>If Sony feels these crits are making the game unbalanced then why did they combine the CA, spell and heal crits into one stat anyway? It's no wonder, with the abundance of crit gear now, that things have turned out this way. It seems ridiculous to me that this change was potentially brought about because a hanful of exceptionally geared crusaders were able to solo T9 heroic content.</p><p>As for all those classes that complain about Paladin heals, I remind them that we are fighter/healer hybrids. We are supposed to tank AND heal.</p>

[Boli32]

<p><cite>Monkums wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm a Paladin that hasn't raided since KoS, so my opinion is strictly from non-raiding standpoint. I generally solo or duo with my boyfriend's Warlock so I have to rely on my heals a lot to get the job done.  The heal crit change has had a severe impact on what we do.  I'm decently geared for someone who doesn't raid and my potency sits right around 30%.  I'm easily burning through most of my power on heals now, since I have to cast them three times as much to get the same results.</p><p>Instead of the percentage based heals, I would be happy with larger heals on the same timers but with a reduced power cost.  I've always felt Lay on Hands should be a complete heal but I'm not sure we'll ever see that.</p><p>If Sony feels these crits are making the game unbalanced then why did they combine the CA, spell and heal crits into one stat anyway? It's no wonder, with the abundance of crit gear now, that things have turned out this way. It seems ridiculous to me that this change was potentially brought about because a hanful of exceptionally geared crusaders were able to solo T9 heroic content.</p><p>As for all those classes that complain about Paladin heals, I remind them that we are fighter/healer hybrids. We are supposed to tank AND heal.</p></blockquote><p>WHAT?... actually get heals which are useful? preposterous!.. what a silly idea!</p>