It could be worse...

[Thrizz]

<p>Alright, so, I fully expect there will be people who disagree with me here, and I know there may be even people who decide to flame what I have to say. But I'm going to say it, because I need to get this off my chest.</p><p>Recently, I returned to the game. A little over a week now. In this time I've done some leveling, done some house decorating, done some roleplay, done a little PVP. I've dabbled in a bit of everything, and I have felt refreshed. Now, I look at the forums, and I notice the amounts of negativity are running high. People don't like SoE because... what, they removed 14 day trials from legacy servers? Because there's a station cash button at the lower right? Because there's station cash at all? Or is it because there are free to play servers?</p><p>Alot of folks' complaints have to do with this. Now, I understand the complaints. I'd hate it if suddenly it was more worth it to play on those F2P Servers, and I know I wouldn't play on them at all.</p><p>But, it could be worse. I see less complaining about the actual game, and more about marketing type stuff. And I say... it could be worse. If that's the main type of issue folks have, then IMO, the game is at a decent place. I see people claiming abyssmal server populations... you folks obviously have not played Age of Conan... a game I treasure for its lore and gameplay, but loathe for its horrid community. THAT game has serious problems, and yet it survives. It has alot of gameplay problems, it has a community that makes a game out of running new players out (not because they don't want them to play, but because they really are, that mean spirited). Yet it survives.</p><p>So honestly, I think you guys are getting worked up. I don't disagree with voicing problems with decisions, but I can safely say... the sky is not falling. This game is alot healthier then most out there right now.</p>

[Murkie]

<p>I agree with you in most of your points.  Anybody that has played EQ2 for a good amount of time already knows what direction the game is taking with its machanics and gameplay style.  There really is no excuse to complain there... yes it's been dumbed down from what it once was, but that has been a continuing trend over the last couple years.</p><p>What has gotten people going though, is the seemingly hap-hazard way the FTP model has been introduced.  Many people agree that with the new FTP servers up and running, new players to the current live servers have no reason to roll here, meaning less and less players on our servers.  Suggestions have been made about how to incorporate FTP with the live servers, or make the live servers more attracticve to new players, but - and this is other other thing that people are angry at - SOE seems to be completely ignoring all good ideas and input from its community.</p><p>I'm not claiming to speak for anyone, this is just how I feel and how I've interpeted posts made by others.</p>

[Thrizz]

<p>Actually, there is a good reason for F2P Players to graduate here:</p><p>for 14.99 over on the F2P Servers, you don't have access to everything <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Jeeshman]

<p><cite>Telkon@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>People don't like SoE because... what, they removed 14 day trials from legacy servers? Because there's a station cash button at the lower right? Because there's station cash at all? Or is it because there are free to play servers?</blockquote><p>The reason for the negativity isn't because there are F2P servers or station cash, or even that there's a station cash button--it's that the latest Game Update gave nothing to the regular playerbase and in fact <em>took things away</em> from the regular playerbase (decent spell effects for example), and at the same time changed things about the game to make things easier for the F2P players.</p><p>The 14-day trial removal, station cash button, etc. are all annoying, but GU57 sent the message that SOE doesn't care about the regular playerbase.  The statement could not be more clear: "Free to play is the future.  So long, regular playerbase and thanks for the last 6 years of $14.99 per month but we don't want you anymore."</p><p>Hey, maybe this approach is paying off--I hear the Extended servers have tons of people on them at the moment.  But until the devs do something to suggest they still think my money is important to them, I'm closer to canceling than I've ever been in the last 6 years.</p>

[Koriani]

<p></p><p>And I say... it could be worse. If that's the main type of issue folks have, then IMO, the game is at a decent place. I see people claiming abyssmal server populations... you folks obviously have not played Age of Conan... a game I treasure for its lore and gameplay, but loathe for its horrid community. THAT game has serious problems, and yet it survives. It has alot of gameplay problems, it has a community that makes a game out of running new players out (not because they don't want them to play, but because they really are, that mean spirited). Yet it survives.</p><p>Could be worse for AoC too - they could be owned by SOE.  Who would probably have shut it down already because its profit margins aren't high enough.  Or it would go f2p too and everything you level for can be bought outright.</p><p>Games by different developers/producers are like apples and oranges.  Different companies consider different amounts of subs and profit a "success."</p><p>To me, the message of EQII going F2P is "this is not success enough, need more, screw all ya'll."</p><p>But then smaller game companies have been slowly dying off these last few years; so why be surprised eh?</p>

[Goldburg]

<p><cite>Telkon@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>But, it could be worse. <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>I see less complaining about the actual game</strong></span>, and more about marketing type stuff.</p></blockquote><p>You need to look some more. No content with the latest GU, fighter nerf/guardians still not fixed, SJ stating that they are looking closely at the classes to see what more can be done (take from that what you will), raid itemization not fixed, spell animations changed to worse looking animations, non documented changes put in last GU (which is more or less common) etc...</p><p>My point is not everything is peachy with the game, while yes it may be in a stable state at the moment there are overlooked issues and issues the devs/senior producer are creating such as the stat consolidation "fix" from TSO. The information is there, the discussions are happening and the most red names we seeing are over on EQ2 Extended. On a good day you'll find some oranges deleting posts on the forums for Live.</p><p>Anyway there's plenty of Doom and Gloom to fill your sun-shiny day with.</p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Dasein]

<p><cite>Koriani@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p></p><p>And I say... it could be worse. If that's the main type of issue folks have, then IMO, the game is at a decent place. I see people claiming abyssmal server populations... you folks obviously have not played Age of Conan... a game I treasure for its lore and gameplay, but loathe for its horrid community. THAT game has serious problems, and yet it survives. It has alot of gameplay problems, it has a community that makes a game out of running new players out (not because they don't want them to play, but because they really are, that mean spirited). Yet it survives.</p><p>Could be worse for AoC too - they could be owned by SOE.  Who would probably have shut it down already because its profit margins aren't high enough.  Or it would go f2p too and everything you level for can be bought outright.</p><p>Games by different developers/producers are like apples and oranges.  Different companies consider different amounts of subs and profit a "success."</p><p>To me, the message of EQII going F2P is "this is not success enough, need more, screw all ya'll."</p><p>But then smaller game companies have been slowly dying off these last few years; so why be surprised eh?</p></blockquote><p>SOE doesn't shut down games unless they have no choice.</p>

[Dasein]

<p><cite>Goldburg wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Telkon@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>But, it could be worse. <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>I see less complaining about the actual game</strong></span>, and more about marketing type stuff.</p></blockquote><p>You need to look some more. No content with the latest GU, fighter nerf/guardians still not fixed, SJ stating that they are looking closely at the classes to see what more can be done (take from that what you will), raid itemization not fixed, spell animations changed to worse looking animations, non documented changes put in last GU (which is more or less common) etc...</p><p>My point is not everything is peachy with the game, while yes it may be in a stable state at the moment there are overlooked issues and issues the devs/senior producer are creating such as the stat consolidation "fix" from TSO. The information is there, the discussions are happening and the most red names we seeing are over on EQ2 Extended. On a good day you'll find some oranges deleting posts on the forums for Live.</p><p>Anyway there's plenty of Doom and Gloom to fill your sun-shiny day with.</p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Meh, raiders have never been happy with raid itemization.</p><p>Class balance is something being addressed now, and some changes just went to test in the past few days.</p><p>The devs have already announced there will be a GU57b update that is focusing more on conent and mechanics issues.</p>

[Ulrazaj]

<p>It is largely because of SC/Marketplace all over my UI and being shoved down our throats that my account is already canceled.  Resources being given to drive this SC/Market instead of on the game itself.</p><p>When I signed up to play this game, one of my deciding factors was that it was a subscription, and with that subscription I got the opportunity to experience everything or obtain anything, and not be nickeled and dimed to death with SC.  There are many FTP/RMT games out there, if that's the model I wanted to play on I would have chosen a different game.  While the live servers aren't FTP...they are Pay-to-play/RMT which is worse than FTP/RMT.</p><p>Then came the feedback, it was obvious the players didn't want this, we told SOE before GU57 went live, yet it all this went in anyway.  Only a small part of my decision was gameplay related.</p>

[hoosierdaddy]

<p><cite>Telkon@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>People don't like SoE because... what, they removed 14 day trials from legacy servers? Because there's a station cash button at the lower right? Because there's station cash at all? Or is it because there are free to play servers?</p></blockquote><p>Everyone has different reasons for liking or disliking this update.</p><p>I persoanlly couldn't care less about any of the above reasons. None of them directly affect my gameplay experience.</p><p>My problem is that the past three months of development have produced zero in the way of new content for existing players.</p><p>After being told that longer periods between GU's would equate to beefier updates, we veterans have patiently waited three months for nothing more than a re-skinning of the UI and a graphical downgrade to spell effects.</p>

[Thrizz]

<p>A three month wait is nothing. I refer to AoC as an example of a game that... doesn't have a quarter of EQ2's content, with maybe one or two big updates a year, with maybe a minor update once every four months.</p><p>I'm just saying.</p>

[Murkie]

With all due respect, this isn't AoC. EQ2 players have come to expect certain things from our devs (from years of routine). 3 month updates is one of them, when this changes without warning people ask questions. Not only that, but the update that we did have had very little to no actual content that took the game forward as far as many live server players are concerned. For me personally, it angers me that it seems as if my last 3 months worth of subs has been funneled directly into FTP... something I have absolutly no interest in.

[Dasein]

<p><cite>Murkie@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>With all due respect, this isn't AoC. EQ2 players have come to expect certain things from our devs (from years of routine). 3 month updates is one of them, when this changes without warning people ask questions. Not only that, but the update that we did have had very little to no actual content that took the game forward as far as many live server players are concerned. For me personally, it angers me that it seems as if my last 3 months worth of subs has been funneled directly into FTP... something I have absolutly no interest in.</blockquote><p>Not every update will appeal to every player, and sometimes, and update will need to focus more on things outside game content. In a game as old as EQ2, that's going to happen a few times.</p>

[Paleth]

<p>No they did not take anything away.   Them ABSOLUTELY horrendous spell effects were out of control.  I want to feel like a human, not Zeus shooting lightning bolts out of every crack in my body....geeze!</p><p>I agree with the original poster.  Whats with all this hate!  This game is doing FANTASTIC now and I came back as well as a friend.  Keep up the great work sony!!!</p><p>(waiting for that contested dungon in the next expansion!!! wooooo!)</p><p>Paleth</p>

[TuinalOfTheNexus]

<p><cite>Telkon@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>But, it could be worse. I see less complaining about the actual game, and more about marketing type stuff. And I say... it could be worse. If that's the main type of issue folks have, then IMO, the game is at a decent place.</p></blockquote><p>Unfortunately, while I'd love to say that the game itself is so perfect all people can complain about is the revenue model, the many gameplay issues which have already gone unfixed for years are buried at the moment under the many extra issues SoE introduced in the last few months.</p><p>EQ2 is a fun and fairly balanced game until you either, a) level past 80, b) raid, or c) attempt PvP. I guess the developers are hoping by that point EQ2x players will have spent so much in the marketplace on junk levelling up it won't matter that they quit.</p>

[Andok]

<p><cite>Telkon@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Now, I look at the forums, and I notice the amounts of negativity are running high. People don't like SoE because... what, they removed 14 day trials from legacy servers? Because there's a station cash button at the lower right? Because there's station cash at all? Or is it because there are free to play servers?</p><p>{Snip}</p><p>So honestly, I think you guys are getting worked up. I don't disagree with voicing problems with decisions, but I can safely say... the sky is not falling. This game is alot healthier then most out there right now.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, the e-tantrums are running high recently.   It'll calm down when the summer is over and the kids are back in school.</p>

[Vortexelemental]

<p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Telkon@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Now, I look at the forums, and I notice the amounts of negativity are running high. People don't like SoE because... what, they removed 14 day trials from legacy servers? Because there's a station cash button at the lower right? Because there's station cash at all? Or is it because there are free to play servers?</p><p>{Snip}</p><p>So honestly, I think you guys are getting worked up. I don't disagree with voicing problems with decisions, but I can safely say... the sky is not falling. This game is alot healthier then most out there right now.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, the e-tantrums are running high recently.   It'll calm down when the summer is over and the kids are back in school.</p></blockquote><p>School has already started here so I don't see how that makes sense.</p>

[juggalo0385]

<p>it doesnt matter anymore SOE just showed its true colors.  SOE is killing the game and people think that Velious will save it.....well it wont it will just rob people of their money while SOE sits back and laughs at the fact that they gave you a fail xpac and you still bought it.  well SOE wont get my forty dollars</p>

[Thrizz]

<p>So... you come to know what to expect from a company, and the time that they do slip up you jump ship?</p><p>That's the impression I'm getting. That's what confuses me. No game company is ever gonna be perfect/flawless or whatever. I think most folks know that. Hell, there's still stuff in EQ2 that bugs me, but it's not /cancel worthy. I just think if a game is gonna recieve hate because of a specific period of time that kinda sucks, is a bit... off. Granted, MMO players are fickle most of the time. I dunno, I just don't see a reason to be ragey.</p>

[d1anaw]

<p><cite>Telkon@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Alright, so, I fully expect there will be people who disagree with me here, and I know there may be even people who decide to flame what I have to say. But I'm going to say it, because I need to get this off my chest.</p><p>Recently, I returned to the game. A little over a week now. In this time I've done some leveling, done some house decorating, done some roleplay, done a little PVP. I've dabbled in a bit of everything, and I have felt refreshed. Now, I look at the forums, and I notice the amounts of negativity are running high. People don't like SoE because... what, they removed 14 day trials from legacy servers? Because there's a station cash button at the lower right? Because there's station cash at all? Or is it because there are free to play servers?</p><p>Alot of folks' complaints have to do with this. Now, I understand the complaints. I'd hate it if suddenly it was more worth it to play on those F2P Servers, and I know I wouldn't play on them at all.</p><p>But, it could be worse. I see less complaining about the actual game, and more about marketing type stuff. And I say... it could be worse. If that's the main type of issue folks have, then IMO, the game is at a decent place. I see people claiming abyssmal server populations... you folks obviously have not played Age of Conan... a game I treasure for its lore and gameplay, but loathe for its horrid community. THAT game has serious problems, and yet it survives. It has alot of gameplay problems, it has a community that makes a game out of running new players out (not because they don't want them to play, but because they really are, that mean spirited). Yet it survives.</p><p>So honestly, I think you guys are getting worked up. I don't disagree with voicing problems with decisions, but I can safely say... the sky is not falling. This game is alot healthier then most out there right now.</p></blockquote><p>People on this forum complain if they make changes, complain if they don't make changes, complain that they cannot control how everyone plays, complain that everyone doesn't play the way they do, etc, etc, etc. They are never satisfied and a lot of them presume to speak for everyone and love to make grand announcements about how they are going to quit playing because they don't get to dictate what is and is not done. Many are never satisified and never will be regardless what is done and what is not done. I'm wondering if they ever venture out of mommy and daddy's basement to get a glimpse of the real world. How else would you explain that the belief that the world revolves totally around you and that everything shoud be as you envision? Though I'm not sure if this happened, if the game were totally tailored to these individual likes, that they would like it even then. Because of course, it isn't just about tailoring it to their own personal likes and dislikes, it's about the need to control everyone else's experience as well. The thing I don't get, is that if someone is so embittered and so miserable playing, why play? It isn't like it's a requirement. It's supposed to be entertainment and when it gets to the point of creating anger and drama in your real life, it's time to step away from the keyboard and do something like, oh I don't know, get a job, go to school, read a book, watch tv, go to a movie...... Of course then they'd probably complain about that too.</p>

[greenmantle]

<p><cite>d1anaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>People on this forum complain if they make changes, complain if they don't make changes, complain that they cannot control how everyone plays, complain that everyone doesn't play the way they do, etc, etc, etc. ........................................ it's time to step away from the keyboard and do something like, oh I don't know, get a job, go to school, read a book, watch tv, go to a movie...... Of course then they'd probably complain about that too.</p></blockquote><p>But there is nothing to watch on TV, movies are too expensive, ive read all my books, too old for school... ok but i complain about EQ less than every things else..except for some people.</p><p><img src="http://lolabrigada.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/lolcats-funny-pictures-leroy-jenkins.jpg" width="499" height="482" /></p>

[dawy]

<p><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Murkie@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>With all due respect, this isn't AoC. EQ2 players have come to expect certain things from our devs (from years of routine). 3 month updates is one of them, when this changes without warning people ask questions. Not only that, but the update that we did have had very little to no actual content that took the game forward as far as many live server players are concerned. For me personally, it angers me that it seems as if my last 3 months worth of subs has been funneled directly into FTP... something I have absolutly no interest in.</blockquote><p>Not every update will appeal to every player, and sometimes, and update will need to focus more on things outside game content. In a game as old as EQ2, that's going to happen a few times.</p></blockquote><p>This lu cant be defended its not worth trying</p>

[Gladiolus]

<p><cite>Telkon@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>But, it could be worse. I see less complaining about the actual game, and more about marketing type stuff. And I say... it could be worse.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, it could be worse. Gone are the days when we said it couldn't be better.</p>

[MTheel]

<p>I'm a returning player. I started when eq2 was released and quit after a GU made me extremely angry.</p><p>I noticed EQ2 opened a F2P client/server and thought it was pretty cool. I could give it a try again. I enjoyed</p><p>leveling my character up to level 20. Then I felt like it was time to try a different character. Ponder subscribing</p><p>on that server to open more, noticed I couldn't get everything for the same price on live. Then I found out a</p><p>detail that almost made me delete everything and quit again.</p><p>The character I spent two to three days leveling to 20... was stuck there. I couldn't bring over to the live</p><p>servers.  I would have to start over. I almost quit. Many will or just stay there. Live will see new people from</p><p>the F2P client but I'm so certain will be a lot.</p><p>On a side note. I'm about to quit again and demand a full refund since I've barely been able to play since</p><p>restarting on Live due to a failure LaunchPad that only knows how to freeze up.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Armawk]

<p><cite>Telkon@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>People don't like SoE because... what, they removed 14 day trials from legacy servers?</p></blockquote><p>Because they made the real game into 'legacy servers' and the real game from now on is the not very f2p version.</p>

[Ceeamee]

<p>I don't see F2P going anywhere unless it totally tanks and doesn't make them any money at all.  That being said, the reason why most people are upset is because this new F2P server, that was supposed to be totally separate from the Legacy servers, is taking new players from us.  New players don't have the option to do 14 day free trials on Legacy servers anymore, so already, that is not separating the games.  They give people playing on the existing Legacy servers the option to transfer to F2P.  That is also not keeping them separate.  The real kicker is that the F2P server doesn't have the option to transfer to us.</p><p>I'm one of those that thought they should merge the F2P idea into the Legacy servers, but SOE wouldn't have made as much money off of it.  With there being no way that's going to happen now, I would love to see the F2P people be able to transfer over to the Legacy servers and start regular subscriptions if they choose to.  It would also be nice if they would give people the option to go through their 14 day free trial on either the F2P or Legacy instead of giving them only one choice.</p>

[0ppression]

<p>F2P player checking in to the P2P servers! I've always wanted to try EQ2 and the F2P model gave me enough of a taste to play the real game <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. I'm not a big fan of this station cash crap and it will only get worse. I just ignore it and play my game... man there is so much to do in this game!</p>

[Tanthilus]

<p>If you were here when EQ opened and for the next 3-4 years you would also be worried about losing more people. Any given zone used to have 40-100 players. I play on Bazaar so it may not be as bad on a more populated server. Yes it could be worse but we dont want to see that happen.</p>

[Shareana]

<p><cite>Vortexelemental@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Telkon@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Now, I look at the forums, and I notice the amounts of negativity are running high. People don't like SoE because... what, they removed 14 day trials from legacy servers? Because there's a station cash button at the lower right? Because there's station cash at all? Or is it because there are free to play servers?</p><p>{Snip}</p><p>So honestly, I think you guys are getting worked up. I don't disagree with voicing problems with decisions, but I can safely say... the sky is not falling. This game is alot healthier then most out there right now.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, the e-tantrums are running high recently.   It'll calm down when the summer is over and the kids are back in school.</p></blockquote><p>School has already started here so I don't see how that makes sense.</p></blockquote><p>My local schools start on the 7th.  It can be a bit stressful when it is so close to school starting.  I am running about like a chicken without a head this wee with Open Houses and  meetings with nurses...</p>