Nerfed my beloved SK! [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

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Igam

08-22-2010, 10:37 PM

I cannot believe what they have done to the SK's in the latest download! To nerf it as badly as they did was uncalled for. Bad enough that they lowered spell damage and messed with the buffs but why did they also have to hose the heroic opportunities?! Used to be most every spell blinked and how you put them together gave different effects, buffs, and graphics. What got me sick of the fury was how few options you had in fights, 123, 123, rinse repeat. Now the SK is even worse. Only a handfull of options overall but just a couple if u base it on singles vs mobs. One of my buffs, think its the neg energy shield, used to "explode" giving good damage as well as effects. Thats not gone off since. Also before, I would often find a combination of buttons that caused a single attack spell to split and hit everyone in a mob. Thats gone too. Ok fine, a case can be made that they were somewhat overpowered but thats part of having multiple classes of characters. There are other games to play if all u want is a fighter/mage/scout option. EQ2 had ones to play if u were in the mood for strategy and patience and toons for just slaying stuff. Whats going to be the next sacrifice to the alter of banality? Will some whiny mage declare it unfair that plate has better mit than cloth and the devs will tuck tail and avg everyone out to chain?

Vlahkmaak

08-22-2010, 11:44 PM

Ok, I'll bite because you are either a very poorly skilled forum troll or another rehtarded SK who kows absolutely nothing about your class except "I have a bunch of buttons to mash."How did ANY of these changes negativelly impact your SK?Shadowknight<ul><li>Shadowknights will now receive “Painbringer II” at level 6. </li><li>Shadowknights will now receive “Devious Evasion” at level 21. </li><li>Shadowknights will now receive “Unholy Strength” at level 18. </li><li>Shadowknights will now receive “Dark Blade II” at level 16. </li><li>Shadowknight “Unholy Strength VI” no longer has a casting time. </li><li>Shadowknight "Malice" is now a Fist for the Heroic Opportunities. </li><li>“Hateful Slam” no longer requires a shield or symbol to be equipped.</li></ul>Other than the change to fighter heals which only affected your ability to crit a heal off harm touch this update did NOTHING to you.SKs like you are the epitome of whats wrong with the tanking balance issue. You play a class that requires no skill to play well. Unfortunatley for the talented tanks out there that play an SK and know what it means to be less than desired people like you hurt the SK image to the Nth degree. You run into room and mash buttons. You have not the faintest idea of strategy or tanking 101. It used to be tanks had to earn a reputation as being a decent, good, great, or ubber tank. Now they just have to be an SK.

melaine_dvarvensplitter

08-22-2010, 11:54 PM

<cite>Vlahkmaak@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok, I'll bite because you are either a very poorly skilled forum troll or another rehtarded SK who kows absolutely nothing about your class except "I have a bunch of buttons to mash."SKs like you are the epitome of whats wrong with the tanking balance issue. You play a class that requires no skill to play well. Unfortunatley for the talented tanks out there that play an SK and know what it means to be less than desired people like you hurt the SK image to the Nth degree. You run into room and mash buttons. You have not the faintest idea of strategy or tanking 101. It used to be tanks had to earn a reputation as being a decent, good, great, or ubber tank. Now they just have to be an SK. </blockquote>LOL!!! Sorry but troll feeding troll here is funny as hell.I am an old school SK and this oh hey roll my face on the keyboard= win attitude many have is just flat out irritating as hell.I do have to say some folks are the "good times" SK and as you said Hurt the image. And there are as follows in the SK ranks if you will... IDIOT, [Removed for Content], MOUTHBREATHER, ALMOST ALIVE, SOMEWHAT SKILLED, SKILLED, GODMODE. Sadly enough most SK's fall in the first 3 that I listed and there are few skilled and godmode SK's.Not many of us old school SK's about and those that are have been banned from the forums for calling out SOE for poor decisions not only to SK but to the other classes. I am for balance but not at the cost of nerfs to a class that was called out from another class. Vlah... I think we can agree to agree on some points and disagree on others <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Keep slaughtering on Nagafen.

Leafle

08-23-2010, 01:30 AM

Soloing has been a bit more of a challenge since the nerf. I didn't realize that I was kinda depending on the heal crits.But it's not been that much of a change. More of an adjustment. The nerf bat didn't hit us as hard as some of the other fighter classes.

Igam

08-23-2010, 01:56 AM

Thanks for going easy on me. My supposed lack of depth and understanding aside: I had been on the Kunzar faction grind for a week. Same path, same singles, same mobs. The performance of my SK, lvl 77 / 188 AA, was consistant. Got back on right after the download and the change was VERY noticable as I picked up where I left off. Even if the numbers dropping on the buttons as they opened for the first time was a mirage, the drastic drop in performance/options on a known track was not.

Hamervelder

08-23-2010, 02:02 AM

<cite>Vlahkmaak@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok, I'll bite because you are either a very poorly skilled forum troll or another rehtarded SK who kows absolutely nothing about your class except "I have a bunch of buttons to mash."How did ANY of these changes negativelly impact your SK?Shadowknight<ul><li>Shadowknights will now receive “Painbringer II” at level 6. </li><li>Shadowknights will now receive “Devious Evasion” at level 21. </li><li>Shadowknights will now receive “Unholy Strength” at level 18. </li><li>Shadowknights will now receive “Dark Blade II” at level 16. </li><li>Shadowknight “Unholy Strength VI” no longer has a casting time. </li><li>Shadowknight "Malice" is now a Fist for the Heroic Opportunities. </li><li>“Hateful Slam” no longer requires a shield or symbol to be equipped.</li></ul>Other than the change to fighter heals which only affected your ability to crit a heal off harm touch this update did NOTHING to you.SKs like you are the epitome of whats wrong with the tanking balance issue. You play a class that requires no skill to play well. Unfortunatley for the talented tanks out there that play an SK and know what it means to be less than desired people like you hurt the SK image to the Nth degree. You run into room and mash buttons. You have not the faintest idea of strategy or tanking 101. It used to be tanks had to earn a reputation as being a decent, good, great, or ubber tank. Now they just have to be an SK. </blockquote>You are incorrect. It had already been stated by the devs that the lifetap portion of SK spells (such as Lifetap and Tap Veins) would no longer critically hit. As for trollishness, dude, most of your post is flaming trollbate. /eyeroll

Vlahkmaak

08-23-2010, 02:42 AM

<cite>melaine_dvarvensplitter wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vlahkmaak@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok, I'll bite because you are either a very poorly skilled forum troll or another rehtarded SK who kows absolutely nothing about your class except "I have a bunch of buttons to mash."SKs like you are the epitome of whats wrong with the tanking balance issue. You play a class that requires no skill to play well. Unfortunatley for the talented tanks out there that play an SK and know what it means to be less than desired people like you hurt the SK image to the Nth degree. You run into room and mash buttons. You have not the faintest idea of strategy or tanking 101. It used to be tanks had to earn a reputation as being a decent, good, great, or ubber tank. Now they just have to be an SK. </blockquote>LOL!!! Sorry but troll feeding troll here is funny as hell.I am an old school SK and this oh hey roll my face on the keyboard= win attitude many have is just flat out irritating as hell.I do have to say some folks are the "good times" SK and as you said Hurt the image. And there are as follows in the SK ranks if you will... IDIOT, [Removed for Content], MOUTHBREATHER, ALMOST ALIVE, SOMEWHAT SKILLED, SKILLED, GODMODE. Sadly enough most SK's fall in the first 3 that I listed and there are few skilled and godmode SK's.Not many of us old school SK's about and those that are have been banned from the forums for calling out SOE for poor decisions not only to SK but to the other classes. I am for balance but not at the cost of nerfs to a class that was called out from another class. Vlah... I think we can agree to agree on some points and disagree on others <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> Keep slaughtering on Nagafen.</blockquote>I will agree with you SKs needed attention: There is no arguement there. My old SKs avoidance could not match that of my guardian. The sky though is not falling. Other than making people mad this fighter crit heal update - which I did not support in any fashion (/points to his posts on the guardian and feedback thread) did nothing to balance the tanks at all. They essentially shook a hornets nest and are now trying to turn us on each other to further obfuscate the near total lack of progress on the fighter revamp/balancing over these past 2 years. While my guardians AOE control is alot better this xpac than previous my undergeared pally still outperforms. Some tweaks are needed and instead they run the bull into the China store.

Vlahkmaak

08-23-2010, 02:51 AM

<cite>Igamer wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thanks for going easy on me. My supposed lack of depth and understanding aside: I had been on the Kunzar faction grind for a week. Same path, same singles, same mobs. The performance of my SK, lvl 77 / 188 AA, was consistant. Got back on right after the download and the change was VERY noticable as I picked up where I left off. Even if the numbers dropping on the buttons as they opened for the first time was a mirage, the drastic drop in performance/options on a known track was not.</blockquote>Since you state you were being honest then I apologize. I took your post wrong. Other than maybe less healing off reaver I honestly don't know what the difference could be. In theory this update should have hit my pally alot harder than your SK. I had to slow down slightly on mass pulls but not by too much. Since I could not log onto my SK having cancelled station access I am stuck to only partial access to my alts. /camp alt#12 no longer works.I ran the same path on my pally and my bruiser in the hole mass pulling the rats up top and then the heroics deep down to see how healing had changed. I did notice a slight increase in spike damage but when I limited pulls to fewer encounters both tanks still fared well due to their healing abilities. A 77 SK at 188 AA's should theoretically do well in KJ. though. I honestly do not see how you should be taking significantly more damage or doing less damage either. The listed changes do not add up to that level of difference.

Igam

08-23-2010, 04:05 AM

The rant did come off a bit like a WoW button masher didn't it? Must be the new graphics. It would be wholy unprecidented for a characters stats to be stealth nerfed wouldn't it? Its not like Grave Sacrament went from "hail mary" to "did it go off?" or anything.As for Melaines comments, I may have been more Leroy Jenkins than Sun Tzu at first but I like to think I'm not tarnishing the class. Ive grouped with old hands who would slam everything from your decisions to your diction in a heartbeat and I've garnered recommendations from them now.

melaine_dvarvensplitter

08-24-2010, 04:24 PM

<cite>Vlahkmaak@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>melaine_dvarvensplitter wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vlahkmaak@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok, I'll bite because you are either a very poorly skilled forum troll or another rehtarded SK who kows absolutely nothing about your class except "I have a bunch of buttons to mash."SKs like you are the epitome of whats wrong with the tanking balance issue. You play a class that requires no skill to play well. Unfortunatley for the talented tanks out there that play an SK and know what it means to be less than desired people like you hurt the SK image to the Nth degree. You run into room and mash buttons. You have not the faintest idea of strategy or tanking 101. It used to be tanks had to earn a reputation as being a decent, good, great, or ubber tank. Now they just have to be an SK. </blockquote>LOL!!! Sorry but troll feeding troll here is funny as hell.I am an old school SK and this oh hey roll my face on the keyboard= win attitude many have is just flat out irritating as hell.I do have to say some folks are the "good times" SK and as you said Hurt the image. And there are as follows in the SK ranks if you will... IDIOT, [Removed for Content], MOUTHBREATHER, ALMOST ALIVE, SOMEWHAT SKILLED, SKILLED, GODMODE. Sadly enough most SK's fall in the first 3 that I listed and there are few skilled and godmode SK's.Not many of us old school SK's about and those that are have been banned from the forums for calling out SOE for poor decisions not only to SK but to the other classes. I am for balance but not at the cost of nerfs to a class that was called out from another class. Vlah... I think we can agree to agree on some points and disagree on others <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> Keep slaughtering on Nagafen.</blockquote>I will agree with you SKs needed attention: There is no arguement there. My old SKs avoidance could not match that of my guardian. The sky though is not falling. Other than making people mad this fighter crit heal update - which I did not support in any fashion (/points to his posts on the guardian and feedback thread) did nothing to balance the tanks at all. They essentially shook a hornets nest and are now trying to turn us on each other to further obfuscate the near total lack of progress on the fighter revamp/balancing over these past 2 years. While my guardians AOE control is alot better this xpac than previous my undergeared pally still outperforms. Some tweaks are needed and instead they run the bull into the China store.</blockquote>/respectAs far as OP, take and reasses your style of play and go from there! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Be prepared for lots of deaths until you feel confident and then roll with the punches!

Darkojin

08-25-2010, 04:03 PM

<cite>Igamer wrote:</cite><blockquote>The rant did come off a bit like a WoW button masher didn't it? Must be the new graphics. It would be wholy unprecidented for a characters stats to be stealth nerfed wouldn't it? Its not like Grave Sacrament went from "hail mary" to "did it go off?" or anything.As for Melaines comments, I may have been more Leroy Jenkins than Sun Tzu at first but I like to think I'm not tarnishing the class. Ive grouped with old hands who would slam everything from your decisions to your diction in a heartbeat and I've garnered recommendations from them now. </blockquote>This is honestly the only differance I have noticed on my SK, and its a major pain. Almost little to no animation for it, and you cant tell if it went off or just went on cooldown without the effect. Damage output and tanking ability seems to be about the same for me so far. The sad part about the animation loss for Grave Sacrament is that the NPCs that use it have the full visual effect, so you can tell if you got hit with it (had this with one of the Aviak races in Barren Sky).

Zutan

08-25-2010, 04:19 PM

I've had spell effects turned off so long I dont even know what is changed now.. I also did not notice the heal crit thing since only 2 or 3 of our spells even where capable of heal critting (as far as I can tell) and the rest (heal via reaver AA) do not crit.

Igam

08-25-2010, 10:34 PM

Im really surprised at the response to this. I thought mine would be a drop in the flood of complaints. Perhaps I was in a unique position, fighting the same mobs over and over for faction, when the nerf hit. I had an established baseline to judge the true depth of it. It goes way beyond the crit heal business. Perhaps if they had reduced damage OR limited the heroic opportunities it wouldn't be so bad, but to do both is criminal. I really miss the ability to put together many different HO's.Yes the color scheme gives eye strain, sure the SC button everywhere is an annoyance, yes the trend towards shifting game exp and good items to RL cash will be the death of the game for gamers: but thats to be expected on a mature platform with bean counters overriding devs. I can live with that, but taking real damage and using 2/3 of power for one lousy green hero is something I wont pay for in a tank. It would be interesting to see how many people are playing WoW when its as old as Eq is. SoE is like a record label telling the Stones to sound like Bieber just because he's more popular at the moment.I do not charge in and start blasting. I use a long range bow to pull singles and adds first, gauge whats left and try to pull to clear areas. If Im grouping i make sure to turn the mobs so their backs are to my friends and i hit, tabbing around the mob, to hold them as well. I will practice on enemies until the tactics are like a fusion of chess and dance. I use mostly MC gear, dont have items i cant earn thru play, have only craft level spells, and spent a lot of time fleshing out the AA tree and learning to optimize my toon. Now I have to gum my food because of full raid gear SK's with deep pockets? I have been mincing thru an area on my wiz or fury and seen fighters blow by killing at will, did I whine and declare it unfair? No. All the classes have strengths and weaknesses. Thats part of EQs fun and realism. Its a valid point that the class is very forgiving of sloppy players and devistating in the hands of a good one. But that is no reason to nerf a good class to mollify weak players. Remeber folks, it may well be YOUR class that someone else complains of next. It may be part of the push to force players to group, gutting good solo classes. Perhaps they are going to reduce the classes and taking the fun out of the ones to be consolidated is the first step.

Ultramega

08-27-2010, 12:33 AM

Sorry, It seems you're very attached to your SK, but they haven't begun to be nerfed enough to bring them in line with the rest of the classes.I personally like SKs right now, they are fun as heck to play, but if you want to talk about game balance, they are LOL overpowered at this point. They have way too much DPS for the amount of survivability. When you start rivaling T1 DPS classes, and have twice the hit points and healing, that's a problem.SoE should just OP the rest of the classes and get it over with. This game is already massive single player online, they might as well finish the job.

Igam

08-27-2010, 03:19 PM

Yes I loved the SK. That class enabled me to have fun and explore the world without being forced to group. I dont like being forced to choose between periodic demands from wife and kids and leaving my party without a tank in mid dungeon. I liked being able to log on and just play without spending an hour looking for people to play with because the class i chose to play cant go it alone. Surely Im not the only one?Sad thing is, Ive already seen posts asking for the next class to nerf. I knew that when Sony caved in yet didnt document what they really did to the class in the update notes that players would continue the anti SK rant. And there you are....

Yahshua

08-27-2010, 08:52 PM

<cite>Igamer wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes I loved the SK. That class enabled me to have fun and explore the world without being forced to group. I dont like being forced to choose between periodic demands from wife and kids and leaving my party without a tank in mid dungeon. I liked being able to log on and just play without spending an hour looking for people to play with because the class i chose to play cant go it alone. Surely Im not the only one?Sad thing is, Ive already seen posts asking for the next class to nerf. I knew that when Sony caved in yet didnt document what they really did to the class in the update notes that players would continue the anti SK rant. And there you are....</blockquote>And it will never end, because for some reason people want a game void of competition where no one's class is "better" (in their sight) than the other. So instead of learning the strengths and weaknesses of their particular class, they'll continue to cry about how someone else has it better.

Thunndar316

08-28-2010, 12:41 PM

Aura of the Crusader no longer cures a key mob det. Secret nerf nobody is noticing.pisses me off

Diern

08-30-2010, 01:28 AM

Not that HO's matter to much but I actually prefer the HO changes. There are far more options in a group now.and as for solo, you can refresh Siphon strength, if you have no icons to hit. problem fixed.I haven't been noticing the nerf much, soloing is a little harder yeah, but I just finished a klack BG and was top of the table in every catagory (minus deaths of course)In reality the sk does need a slight toning down and these sort of things are probably good for the class rather than a huge knee jerk reaction nerf.

troar

09-23-2010, 04:18 PM

I just cant believe some of the ignorant statements i see posted about the SK. I do not understand why most people want to blame or tally it up to a class being overpowered. Unfortunately for some this game requires skill. To be a Godmode Sk you do need to have the ability to read and have some common sense to figure out what your spells or ca's do instead of mashing buttons. I mean I have been an SK for quite awhile and played it before it was cool. I also will say that if you encounter another good player in pvp you will not win everytime. There is no easy mode I would suggest that you use all the tools available to you and learn to play your class correctly before you come in the forums and post ignorant statements.

Wasuna

09-24-2010, 01:14 PM

I've been trying to stay out of other class forums but when somebody claims that SK's are powerful becasue they are good players and other classes are weak becasue they have poor players I have to jump in.I've played a Guardian since Beta of EQ2. I was one of the first tanks to tank the Dragon on the starting island instance for the Prismatic weapon quest on my server. I do not consider myself the best at my class becasue, well, I work and have other hobbies and have descided not to raid in the last couple of expansions. In the end, I'm a pretty good player with just about the best Legendary gear that is available in this expansion.That being said, give just about anybody a SK in equal gear to me and they would beat me heands down 9 out of 10 times in a duel or in BG. Player skill always plays an important part in charachter performance but when you have twice the number of toys to play with it sure does change the level of playwer skill needed to win. Give somebody a SK with equal skill and gear as me and I'm a speed bump on the way to the real fight.Please quit assuming that everybody across from your are idiots. Sometimes it's just as simple as your car being much faster than theirs in a race.

troar

09-24-2010, 03:09 PM

That being said, give just about anybody a SK in equal gear to me and they would beat me heands down 9 out of 10 times in a duel or in BG. Player skill always plays an important part in charachter performance but when you have twice the number of toys to play with it sure does change the level of playwer skill needed to win. Give somebody a SK with equal skill and gear as me and I'm a speed bump on the way to the real fight.I can agree to that in some aspects especially when it comes to the Guardian class and I am not saying that others are idiots. The fact is that the SK is not really nerfed at all. The other fact is that SoE is boosting or has boosted many other classes. What makes me ill is when people who really do not take the time to learn thier class and sit here and whine about it. My motto is and will always be if there is a will thier is a way. In this game you can do or accomplish anything you set out to do If you learn how to do it. Take some time to figure it out and do not just quit after you fail one time. It sounds like you are one of those that have figured out your class and that is awesome. Commendable!!!! I will say there are many things in the game I do not agree with when it comes to all classes. With that being said I will not go into whinning about it I just go out and found ways to overcome another classes strengths and capitalize on thier weakness.