AOE Dispel [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

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Uinael_Guk

08-21-2010, 06:01 PM

Can something be done about this in PVP? SK's and i'm pretty sure Pallies have the ability to dispel a bunch of stuff from every person around them which is insanely OP'd. Why are they allowed to do such a thing in BG's? That spell should clearly be limited to 1 target in pvp

Crismorn

08-21-2010, 06:31 PM

Doom Aura should never have been given to crusaders if it should be in game at all it should be a chanter spell.

BlueEternal

08-21-2010, 07:21 PM

Recast the buffs that were stripped, voila!

Mosha D'Khan

08-21-2010, 08:18 PM

stgninja

08-21-2010, 09:32 PM

<cite>Nariox@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Recast the buffs that were stripped, voila!</blockquote>But its sooooo hard to rebuff!

Uinael_Guk

08-22-2010, 12:36 AM

<cite>Nariox@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Recast the buffs that were stripped, voila!</blockquote>That's far from the point. Like Davionx said, it should be a chanter spell if anything. Why do Crusaders get this extremely powerful ability? What's next, are they going to get AOE mez too? And will you reply 'oh, just get cured by healer, voila!'?Based on lore, I was always under the impression SKs = Warrior + Necro, and Pally = Warrior + Templar, and none of those classes get such a powerful dispel.And just recast it? As a caster getting pounded on by a tank who does almost as much damage as a upper level dps class and heals as much as an average healer while mitigating about as much as a guard, I have to do all I can to kill or be killed. The time it takes to rebuff 4-5 buffs = death.

FrostDragon

08-22-2010, 01:31 AM

<cite>Cappadon@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nariox@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Recast the buffs that were stripped, voila!</blockquote>But its sooooo hard to rebuff!</blockquote>Agreed I get hit once and have to spend 12s rebuffing all my bard buffs at least 2 to 4 buffs stripped everytime. I can detrimental 5 group attacks and 2 or 3 combat ones but fully stripping concentration slots buffs with simple melee hit? I will call OP on that since htey will not fix noncombat buff casting speeds

BlueEternal

08-22-2010, 10:12 AM

<cite>Luceus@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nariox@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Recast the buffs that were stripped, voila!</blockquote>That's far from the point. Like Davionx said, it should be a chanter spell if anything. Why do Crusaders get this extremely powerful ability? What's next, are they going to get AOE mez too? And will you reply 'oh, just get cured by healer, voila!'?Based on lore, I was always under the impression SKs = Warrior + Necro, and Pally = Warrior + Templar, and none of those classes get such a powerful dispel.And just recast it? As a caster getting pounded on by a tank who does almost as much damage as a upper level dps class and heals as much as an average healer while mitigating about as much as a guard, I have to do all I can to kill or be killed. The time it takes to rebuff 4-5 buffs = death.</blockquote>If they stripped the ability from crusaders and gave it to enchanters you'd still cry OP because you were "unable to do anything" while they did it.

melaine_dvarvensplitter

08-22-2010, 10:55 AM

The QQ is strong in this one! Doom Judgement has been in game since The vampire adventure pack was put in game,... sorry but I don't have any patience for those who want easy peasy game play. I remember the good ole days of if you die you recast all your buffs and there should be a penalty for death, I also recall some raid mobs and even mobs in MMC that strip buffs. It's part of the game play. If you don't like it, don't log in./rant off

Ballads

08-22-2010, 11:43 AM

<cite>melaine_dvarvensplitter wrote:</cite><blockquote>The QQ is strong in this one! Doom Judgement has been in game since The vampire adventure pack was put in game,... sorry but I don't have any patience for those who want easy peasy game play. I remember the good ole days of if you die you recast all your buffs and there should be a penalty for death, I also recall some raid mobs and even mobs in MMC that strip buffs. It's part of the game play. If you don't like it, don't log in./rant off</blockquote>This is not the Good ole days, this ability needed toned down when they introduced pvp, it is OP in PvP, not against mobs.

melaine_dvarvensplitter

08-22-2010, 11:57 AM

<cite>Ballads wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>melaine_dvarvensplitter wrote:</cite><blockquote>The QQ is strong in this one! Doom Judgement has been in game since The vampire adventure pack was put in game,... sorry but I don't have any patience for those who want easy peasy game play. I remember the good ole days of if you die you recast all your buffs and there should be a penalty for death, I also recall some raid mobs and even mobs in MMC that strip buffs. It's part of the game play. If you don't like it, don't log in./rant off</blockquote>This is not the Good ole days, this ability needed toned down when they introduced pvp, it is OP in PvP, not against mobs.</blockquote> True but still if it's toned down it's better than the complete removal of it that is being whined for. Da mmit Ballads I hate when you make valid points. /headbounce off of desk!

Uinael_Guk

08-22-2010, 12:24 PM

<cite>melaine_dvarvensplitter wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ballads wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>melaine_dvarvensplitter wrote:</cite><blockquote>The QQ is strong in this one! Doom Judgement has been in game since The vampire adventure pack was put in game,... sorry but I don't have any patience for those who want easy peasy game play. I remember the good ole days of if you die you recast all your buffs and there should be a penalty for death, I also recall some raid mobs and even mobs in MMC that strip buffs. It's part of the game play. If you don't like it, don't log in./rant off</blockquote>This is not the Good ole days, this ability needed toned down when they introduced pvp, it is OP in PvP, not against mobs.</blockquote> True but still if it's toned down it's better than the complete removal of it that is being whined for. Da mmit Ballads I hate when you make valid points. /headbounce off of desk!</blockquote>Complete removal? I agreed with Davionx, but this was my original post..."That spell should clearly be limited to 1 target in pvp"And those who talk about rebuffing after death. Get a clue. This isn't about that. One class, especially a fighter, shouldn't have the ability to dispel thousands, sometimes tens of thousands of HP's with one AOE.Giving it to chanters would probably also be a bad move, if given just the way it is. A very toned down version (3-4 targets, just arcane) would be somewhat acceptable and fitting to their class. Plus it wouldn't be as frustrating seeing as like 25% of matches aren't filled with chanters like they are SK's now.

Ralpmet

08-22-2010, 01:38 PM

This ability is already toned down in PvP.In PvE it does AoE damage + Dispellin PvP it does Dispell.It's pretty dumb that they get an AoE dispel, seeing as no other class comes to mind that can do that (and from such a low level on) but watcha gonna do? One of those things that doesn't seem worth fighting over imo.

melaine_dvarvensplitter

08-22-2010, 11:44 PM

<cite>Luceus@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>melaine_dvarvensplitter wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ballads wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>melaine_dvarvensplitter wrote:</cite><blockquote>The QQ is strong in this one! Doom Judgement has been in game since The vampire adventure pack was put in game,... sorry but I don't have any patience for those who want easy peasy game play. I remember the good ole days of if you die you recast all your buffs and there should be a penalty for death, I also recall some raid mobs and even mobs in MMC that strip buffs. It's part of the game play. If you don't like it, don't log in./rant off</blockquote>This is not the Good ole days, this ability needed toned down when they introduced pvp, it is OP in PvP, not against mobs.</blockquote> True but still if it's toned down it's better than the complete removal of it that is being whined for. Da mmit Ballads I hate when you make valid points. /headbounce off of desk!</blockquote>Complete removal? I agreed with Davionx, but this was my original post..."That spell should clearly be limited to 1 target in pvp"And those who talk about rebuffing after death. Get a clue. This isn't about that. One class, especially a fighter, shouldn't have the ability to dispel thousands, sometimes tens of thousands of HP's with one AOE.Giving it to chanters would probably also be a bad move, if given just the way it is. A very toned down version (3-4 targets, just arcane) would be somewhat acceptable and fitting to their class. Plus it wouldn't be as frustrating seeing as like 25% of matches aren't filled with chanters like they are SK's now.</blockquote>The removal comment was toward someone else.MMC is notorious for mobs debuffing the hell out of you and stifling mezzing etc etc. Since SOE can't do a [Removed for Content] thing right or so it seems they will keep on the path of nerfing the crap out of classes that people whine about.As far as matches being SK heavy... SoE once again can't balance for crap, partly due to the sheer number of classes they have in the game when most could of been done by AA choices.I am an old school SK and been here since Nov 2004 and I know SOE will buff and the screw us and then buff and so forth. I will hang on and play unlike many SK's who are the good time bunch.Just be glad as someone said... It only debuffs in BG's and doesn't have the damage with it <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Or there would be even greater QQ.FWIW I no longer play BG's due to poor match making and many other points brought up on the forums /feedback and /bug reports.

KniteShayd

08-23-2010, 08:53 AM

The AoE dispell is certainly OP. no ther class can compare dispells.Summoner Dispells can only dispell and extra type of buffs IF it's enhanced. Otherwise they get the same thing as all the other mages in the form of Absorb Magic.Druid Dispell can be resisted most of the time, and doesn't even dispell all buffs like the other classes do either. Even if it's maxed. most I have ever seen was 3 buffs removed on my own casts. A druid has to choose to have this ability also, and spend many AA points just to get it to hopefully work on not every buff.Shaman Dispell can remove mutliple buffs if they get lucky, but it can only hit one player. Mostly Defiler's spec Scourge, I have only seen one Mystic use it. So this ability is definitely NOT an every Shaman thing. And Shamans also have to spend alot of AA's to get this ability.Rogue Dispells seem to dispell at least one buff EVERYTIME on their target, and has a faster refresh than any of the other dispells. Most times, they rip 3 buffs off me at a time. Apparently there are no buff type restrictions they can remove. This ability is pretty standard with all rogues in how they spec. I still have yet to myself show a resist tag when they use it.Crusader Dispells have no cap on the amount of buffs dispelled (only limited by type) and the effect is standard without having to spend any AA's. SO if they get lucky, say 2 dispells per person on a group of 4 people, that equals 8 dispells for one cast. Their max target limit for the ability is 8. If they were to hit 2 dispells on 8 people, 16 dispells. I was in a group today where and SK AoE'd my group and almost all of our buffs were gone. Please tell me that isn't OP so I can /slap you.The ability needs a cap as to how many effects it can dispell in one hit, or have a limit to dispells per person in PvP. Period.

KniteShayd

08-23-2010, 08:56 AM

<cite>Nariox@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Recast the buffs that were stripped, voila!</blockquote>Easier said than done. I try to recast my buffs when they are stripped as often as possible. But as a healer, sometimes you have other priorities...

Seduction

08-23-2010, 12:10 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Doom Aura should never have been given to crusaders if it should be in game at all it should be a chanter spell.</blockquote>+1.There shouldn't be any discussion here. This ability is EXTREMELY powerful in PvP and to have it usable by a class that already has more utility than so-called utility classes (and feel free to add other discussion about crusaders being OP) is more than ridiculous. Move it to enchanters (maybe they'd have some real utility then) or remove it altogether.And for the "just rebuff" suggestion below... Stripping off 15 buffs from varied group members with one AE takes about a second. Recasting all of those buffs on your group members takes much, much more time--time that you do not have when trying to contribute to a PvP situation.Thanks.

Grumble69

08-23-2010, 12:36 PM

Maybe life is different in the L90 BGs. But in the pre-90s, I'm just not seeing a big problem here. SKs are a very popular class and there's almost always some in every BG. If the problem was as bad as yall were saying, I'd be completely stripped of all buffs. As it stands now, only some of them are coming off and I'm just fine with that.

Beef_Supre

08-23-2010, 12:47 PM

I think the issue isn't so much the ability... it's just who gets it.Like was suggested above, if this was a Coercer spell, I seriously doubt anyone would be offended by it.It's just more fuel on the fire about SK's, and while it's not something in particular that bothers me personally, I can see how it would irk others. It's just another perk of playing that class, and one that really has no justification as having gone to that class.Again, it's not world-ending, but it's troublesome to see it placed so incorrectly in terms of classes. Coercer, Illusionist, Bard maybe.. but SK? C'mon. They don't really need to shoot lightning bolts from their eyes *AND* fireballs from their ars*, do they?

Wytie

08-27-2010, 03:50 PM

PVP'rs have hated that CA since day 1, but Ill be dam if it gets changed now, just because some bluebies cant stand rebuffing in BG's.....L2 expect it and deal with it. Its a great tool when used well. If you just cant stand it then dont allow yourself to be hit with it.Everyone knows that SK/Pally running in, the 1st thing they are going to do is strip everyone buffs... Maybe try not standing there while he/she does it?Just a thought.... but then again thats too difficult lets just remove it instead.....

Uinael_Guk

08-27-2010, 05:44 PM

<cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>PVP'rs have hated that CA since day 1, but Ill be dam if it gets changed now, just because some bluebies cant stand rebuffing in BG's.....L2 expect it and deal with it. Its a great tool when used well. If you just cant stand it then dont allow yourself to be hit with it.Everyone knows that SK/Pally running in, the 1st thing they are going to do is strip everyone buffs... Maybe try not standing there while he/she does it?Just a thought.... but then again thats too difficult lets just remove it instead.....</blockquote>Ahh yes, another pinky chimes in with a snarky reply about how jealous they are they picked the red headed step child server and get worked up now that BG's is working to actually balance PvP a bit."I hate that ability! But don't change it because I got used to it"That doesn't make any sense to me.And thanks for the tip about not standing there. I'll be sure to keep a mental timer of all 12 SK's AOE's in a Den match. I never thought of that. Thanks! Any other great pvp tips you want to share?

Brynhild

08-27-2010, 05:56 PM

Lol.. That ability alone isn't the issue, the issue is that almost every single fight, at least in t8 and t9 battlegrounds there are many many sk's and they all do it constantly at random intervals. As a priest it takes me 6-7 seconds to recast the buffs it dispels , and it ALWAYYYYYYYYYYYYS dispels my two big group armor/hp buffs. Why does it pick the most important buff to dispel? that's like almost 2000 hp gone, and 1500 physical mitigation gone for my group in one hit, and those buffs are not fast casting.Luckily the recast is over a minute on it, but like i said in the previous paragraph, you get 5-6 sk's in a battle in smugglers and it happens non stop. There are too many sk's!! hehe

Ralpmet

08-28-2010, 12:47 AM

<cite>Luceus@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>PVP'rs have hated that CA since day 1, but Ill be dam if it gets changed now, just because some bluebies cant stand rebuffing in BG's.....L2 expect it and deal with it. Its a great tool when used well. If you just cant stand it then dont allow yourself to be hit with it.Everyone knows that SK/Pally running in, the 1st thing they are going to do is strip everyone buffs... Maybe try not standing there while he/she does it?Just a thought.... but then again thats too difficult lets just remove it instead.....</blockquote>Ahh yes, another pinky chimes in with a snarky reply about how jealous they are they picked the red headed step child server and get worked up now that BG's is working to actually balance PvP a bit."I hate that ability! But don't change it because I got used to it"That doesn't make any sense to me.And thanks for the tip about not standing there. I'll be sure to keep a mental timer of all 12 SK's AOE's in a Den match. I never thought of that. Thanks! Any other great pvp tips you want to share?</blockquote>According to your sig you play two "ranged" toons, you don't even have to be near an sk on either of them (they both have snares, slow him down run away hope someone else picks him up).You are welcome.

Notsovilepriest

08-28-2010, 12:55 AM

<cite>Luceus@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>PVP'rs have hated that CA since day 1, but Ill be dam if it gets changed now, just because some bluebies cant stand rebuffing in BG's.....L2 expect it and deal with it. Its a great tool when used well. If you just cant stand it then dont allow yourself to be hit with it.Everyone knows that SK/Pally running in, the 1st thing they are going to do is strip everyone buffs... Maybe try not standing there while he/she does it?Just a thought.... but then again thats too difficult lets just remove it instead.....</blockquote>Ahh yes, another pinky chimes in with a snarky reply about how jealous they are they picked the red headed step child server and get worked up now that BG's is working to actually balance PvP a bit."I hate that ability! But don't change it because I got used to it"That doesn't make any sense to me.And thanks for the tip about not standing there. I'll be sure to keep a mental timer of all 12 SK's AOE's in a Den match. I never thought of that. Thanks! Any other great pvp tips you want to share?</blockquote>Yes, Adapt and overcome instead of begging for nerfs of abilities because it's annoying to deal with, It's annoying yes, but it's nothing more than that.BGs are both helping and hurting getting PvP things fixed. Helping because they listen to PvE'ers over PvP, and hurting because they listen to PvE'ers, who don't know what they are saying about different PvP things or just want it easier because they don't like the inconvenience, over PvP'ers who actually have been there done that and worked to figure out a counter or effect way to deal with stuff.

Uinael_Guk

08-28-2010, 02:00 AM

<cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Luceus@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>PVP'rs have hated that CA since day 1, but Ill be dam if it gets changed now, just because some bluebies cant stand rebuffing in BG's.....L2 expect it and deal with it. Its a great tool when used well. If you just cant stand it then dont allow yourself to be hit with it.Everyone knows that SK/Pally running in, the 1st thing they are going to do is strip everyone buffs... Maybe try not standing there while he/she does it?Just a thought.... but then again thats too difficult lets just remove it instead.....</blockquote>Ahh yes, another pinky chimes in with a snarky reply about how jealous they are they picked the red headed step child server and get worked up now that BG's is working to actually balance PvP a bit."I hate that ability! But don't change it because I got used to it"That doesn't make any sense to me.And thanks for the tip about not standing there. I'll be sure to keep a mental timer of all 12 SK's AOE's in a Den match. I never thought of that. Thanks! Any other great pvp tips you want to share?</blockquote>According to your sig you play two "ranged" toons, you don't even have to be near an sk on either of them (they both have snares, slow him down run away hope someone else picks him up).You are welcome.</blockquote>If it were that easy, it wouldn't be a problem. In order to win 2 out of the 3 maps, you're going to be close to people / tanks, unless you're one of the classes who just likes to stay completely out of action and not really help their team win. (which I do see a lot). In Gears i'm always hovering in or near the center so I can grab the relic because many just ignore that part. And in Den, I like to stand near the flag even while fighting so we can turn the flag which makes helps.Trust me, i'd like to just stay back and nuke other teams, avoid taunts / dispel's but whenever I do that, the other team ends up winning. Winning is most important to me.

Zelox

01-14-2011, 10:25 PM

The problem I have with this spell is that not only does it take off buffs but it dispels my wards as a defiler, and if the other team has really good dps this will just screw you over sometimes which is very frustrating.

Tenka

01-14-2011, 11:08 PM

cruise on over to the fighter forum and check the latest lvl 90 fighter census. there are like 8k + sk's and 4k + paladins. soe won't make the game fair when they can leave it skewed and keep 12k + ppl happy with op'ness.

Zelox

01-15-2011, 02:55 AM

I was just suggesting they make it so that it just doesn't dispel my wards, I'm losing 60k+ worth of wards plus my ward buffs and everyone else who has any good buffs on gets stripped as well so i mean, it would be nice if it just didnt take off my actual wards.

Orthureon

01-16-2011, 12:43 AM

I agree Doom Judgement is OP, the dispel portion should be toned down in PVP. However, if that happens Rogues, really only Brigands need to have their taunt nerfed. That thing is insane, FAR worse than DJ, especially since it can be cast every 4.5s and it can be doubled up!!!

Chakos

01-18-2011, 12:50 PM

<cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite><blockquote>This ability is already toned down in PvP.In PvE it does AoE damage + Dispellin PvP it does Dispell.</blockquote>They should have done it the other way around, just AoE Damage in pvp lol.Thing is, it does dispel, a surprising number of crusaders do NOT take proper advantage of it, adapt now anyway... you can't reasonably assume that anything will be done about it.It's not gamebreaking, just a big headache when you run into those who properly utilize it -- which may be greater now that there's a nice post highlighting the OPness of it <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Rageincarnate

01-18-2011, 02:13 PM

aoe dispel? you mean that ability that is up .. .. every what 40 seconds ish? I realize your trying to make more "turtle" type matches where everyone just sits around beating on eachother, and you might enjoy that.. but i dont.And yes as a healer.. i will go for you every single time and dispel the heck out of you.. nothing personal.. it's just smart. And i have noticed most of the people here complaing are healers.... yes, your going to get wailed on and i know your job is darn hard.. But,,,, calling for nerfs against players correctly using their skills.. is a bit more then needed. And i do know of quite a few "overlooked" survivability items healers can use to survive in bg's as well. I bg with warden mystic templar inquis defiler and sk. I understand both sides. Another thing to look at is.. if your group is not working with you.. your going to die... period.. yes cure mutilate.. and you can last a long time.. i get it.. but still.. your gonna die.On my sk.. i have Often used the ae dispel to punch a hole in a premade on a charge so we can start wearing em down.All i ask, is consider all sides.. before asking for a nerf.

Tenka

01-18-2011, 06:49 PM

the most powerful dispell in the game (afaik) really shouldn't be on a tank class. tanks in general are op anyway. imo.

Crismorn

01-18-2011, 06:58 PM

I would be fine with crusaders having a dispel if they actually had to go out of their way to use it, but they literally just stand in the middle of a bunch of people, turn auto attack on and proceed to press any CA thats not grey yet and win eq2.It's a joke

Rageincarnate

01-18-2011, 09:19 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would be fine with crusaders having a dispel if they actually had to go out of their way to use it, but they literally just stand in the middle of a bunch of people, turn auto attack on and proceed to press any CA thats not grey yet and win eq2.It's a joke</blockquote>I actually like the ae dispel(its a useful debuff, but it does not render the player out of commision).. aka.. you still have a chance to defend yourself..leeme give you an example, a brig runs up and hits his stuns.. (your break outs are down) your toast unless another player steps in.. and u get to sit there unable to do anything until it wears off,your cured or your dead. Now the crusader runs in and ae dispels , you turn on him and whup him. This is my opinion.. yes i compared dispel too cc as thats kinda how i view it. I dont care what class this goes on at all btw.. but i wouldn't get rid of it at all. if anything give more classes dispel. Since chanters were mentioned.. i would give chanters a delevel debuff as well. another way to "debuff" without standing there watching your guy unable to do anything.my 2 cents.. make it harder.. not easier.. make gear mean something.. but make skill mean more. and i swear im serious and this is not a troll.I would be interested in hearing some non emo input on this.

Tenka

01-19-2011, 02:02 AM

<cite>Rageincarnate@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would be fine with crusaders having a dispel if they actually had to go out of their way to use it, but they literally just stand in the middle of a bunch of people, turn auto attack on and proceed to press any CA thats not grey yet and win eq2.It's a joke</blockquote>I actually like the ae dispel(its a useful debuff, but it does not render the player out of commision).. aka.. you still have a chance to defend yourself..leeme give you an example, a brig runs up and hits his stuns.. (your break outs are down) your toast unless another player steps in.. and u get to sit there unable to do anything until it wears off,your cured or your dead. Now the crusader runs in and ae dispels , you turn on him and whup him. This is my opinion.. yes i compared dispel too cc as thats kinda how i view it. I dont care what class this goes on at all btw.. but i wouldn't get rid of it at all. if anything give more classes dispel. Since chanters were mentioned.. i would give chanters a delevel debuff as well. another way to "debuff" without standing there watching your guy unable to do anything.my 2 cents.. make it harder.. not easier.. make gear mean something.. but make skill mean more. and i swear im serious and this is not a troll.I would be interested in hearing some non emo input on this.</blockquote>this game is sooo effing gear driven, and you want more ? just go along on someone's raid, and parse them. or ask to see a raider's parse. or better yet, go parse a bg. such a heavy part of dps is procs. same with heals. you don't even have to do anything. just turn on auto attack and wait for procs. fully mastered zerk here, and last time i ran act for pve, undeniable malice dwarfed all of my ca's for dps. then came my other procs. i had like 2 ca's in the top 10.

Lalen

02-12-2011, 05:25 AM

<cite>Luceus@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Can something be done about this in PVP? SK's and i'm pretty sure Pallies have the ability to dispel a bunch of stuff from every person around them which is insanely OP'd. Why are they allowed to do such a thing in BG's? That spell should clearly be limited to 1 target in pvp</blockquote>Then all AOE nukes, AOE target-changers (hate/taunt) , AOE heals and cures, should also be nerfed (ie limited to just one target in PVP). I haven't had to endure the torture to play a SK yet but I can say that doom judgement (the point-blank AOE dispel) is only limited to noxous and arcaine buffs and it has counters -- it will NOT dispell everything around you unless all the buffs you have on are the lowest level possible buffs and happen to be all noxious arcaine buffs.Lets examine the description of Doom Judgement:Dispells 251 levels (this is about 2 people with loaded with decent buffs at level 90) of Noxious and Arcaine bennificial effects in targets AOE effect. (it also has a rediculious cool-down as well - in fact I believe it is the longest cool-down of all PB aoes with the exception of Castagate -- for a paladin however)This is already a LIMITED ability in PVP and not half as broken as the warden heals. I've seen many of times a warden hold the gears relic for more than 5 mins (!!!) and the heals were being cast so quickly and so often by the group members that the warden appearned to never take damage. Before you start talking about ripping a dispell from the game (and oh btw Pallies got in EQ1) lets work on the heals that prevent anyone in a group from dying unless of course someone can one-shot them.Hopefully this should also teach you a lesson in trying to get another class nerfed as there are always two sides to the coin.<cite>Poltergeist@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nariox@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Recast the buffs that were stripped, voila!</blockquote>But its sooooo hard to rebuff!</blockquote>/snicker<cite>Tenka@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>the most powerful dispell in the game (afaik) really shouldn't be on a tank class. tanks in general are op anyway. imo.</blockquote>Ever try telling this to a 25K tank that just got one-shot by a wizard? Just wondering if you did, how you still have your pride and arrogance still in tact.

Marcula

02-14-2011, 06:24 PM

My Warden has 25k hitpoints.

Lethe5683

02-14-2011, 07:23 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Doom Aura should never have been given to crusaders if it should be in game at all it should be a chanter spell.</blockquote>No class should have it.

Lalen

02-14-2011, 08:17 PM

<cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Doom Aura should never have been given to crusaders if it should be in game at all it should be a chanter spell.</blockquote>No class should have it.</blockquote>Please, explain, or is this just senseless dribble?

Lark42

02-14-2011, 08:47 PM

The degree of time taken to recast all of those buffs will get you killed, not to mention, render you ineffective for those few moments. Also, they will be stripped again shortly after being reapplied.Also, the Illusionist pet is considered a "buff" and can be removed. That's right--The Illusionist pet can be simply "dispelled" from existance. If a Crusader Doom Judgments or a Rogue taunts you --> *POOF* Goodbye pet!Ya, you can recast it...It takes 10s to recast it, but you can recast it. However, you're dead long before you can get it back up or you'll have to blow 10s of critical time casting it.<cite>Naroc@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Recast the buffs that were stripped, voila!</blockquote>

Lark42

02-14-2011, 08:53 PM

As far as which classes should get Doom Judgment--I have no clue why this was given to the Crusaders. I don't see how the technique relates to their class concept. Why should they, being Divine classes, be able to dispell en masse the Arcane effects of Mages or the musical/magical effects of Bards and Enchanters. I don't see the concept behind it. It would be like giving a Berserker the ability to spell reflect (which Crusaders get, by the way).Conceptually, I've always seen Dispells as being the realm of Enchanters and Bards (primarily Enchanters). When I read that Crusaders got that dispel, the first thing that came out of my mouth was "Wait....what?".

Lalen

02-14-2011, 09:01 PM

<cite>Lark42 wrote:</cite><blockquote>As far as which classes should get Doom Judgment--I have no clue why this was given to the Crusaders. I don't see how the technique relates to their class concept. Why should they, being Divine classes, be able to dispell en masse the Arcane effects of Mages or the musical/magical effects of Bards and Enchanters. I don't see the concept behind it. It would be like giving a Berserker the ability to spell reflect (which Crusaders get, by the way).Conceptually, I've always seen Dispells as being the realm of Enchanters and Bards (primarily Enchanters). When I read that Crusaders got that dispel, the first thing that came out of my mouth was "Wait....what?".</blockquote>Whats this reflect ability you speak of?Also in line with lore, those that attack a crusader are supposed to have "control" over their magical abilities -- if you're wanting to chop right down to the lore there. In EQ1 this is portrayed by granting knights the ability to strip buffs off their opponents (single target) faster than any other class other than a bard (which you have to be in the bards group for that lol). Also in with this they get control over when a class can cast/attack. In EQ2 this is not as defined and knights do not have a great role in this with the exception of the disruption "skill" (which is a joke). In EQ1 paladins can cast stuns and have aa's that GUARANTEE a successful disruption of a cast -- here there is no way to do this so giving a knight a little more in the line of debuffing seems appropiate being they're not able to "stun-lock" here (paladins at least) as very many other classes can.

Vlahkmaak

02-14-2011, 09:14 PM

<cite>Lark42 wrote:</cite><blockquote>As far as which classes should get Doom Judgment--I have no clue why this was given to the Crusaders. I don't see how the technique relates to their class concept. Why should they, being Divine classes, be able to dispell en masse the Arcane effects of Mages or the musical/magical effects of Bards and Enchanters. I don't see the concept behind it. It would be like giving a Berserker the ability to spell reflect (which Crusaders get, by the way).Conceptually, I've always seen Dispells as being the realm of Enchanters and Bards (primarily Enchanters). When I read that Crusaders got that dispel, the first thing that came out of my mouth was "Wait....what?".</blockquote>In this example we should be asking that the pet be fixed to not be stripped during pvp/bg. I think most rational people would agree that this is not an effect that should be getting stripped. Instead of asking for nerfs to other classes lets try to fix those things about our own class that need to be fixed and/or adjusted up or down.Has anyone any information on the resist rate of the spell? I have never actually tested that aspect before - like Notso mentioned earlier those of us on Nagafen just learned to live with it. Many of us on Nagefen suffer from partial Stolkholm Syndrome becuase when we rolled on Nagafen the devs were very clear to us that we should not expect any changes to the red server game rules and if they did come they were few and far between - even when glaring abuses and/or clearly not intened effects were the resultant were pointed out changes were few adn far between. We have thus tried to live with and overcome and adapt as necessary and provide feedback (sometimes less positive than it should have been provided) admidst extreme community points of view on what direction the pvp game should take and hope for some positive action by the devs instead of sweeping revamps where resists are left out and corrected after months of denial by the dev team that anything is amiss with said new changes. Were it not for the PVP server(s) many of us would have long left EQ2 as we found the pve only side of the game boring. We have had to deal with what many of you are just now over this past year learning to deal with now as we have over the previous half decade.

Crismorn

02-15-2011, 09:31 AM

<cite>Lark42 wrote:</cite><blockquote>As far as which classes should get Doom Judgment--I have no clue why this was given to the Crusaders. I don't see how the technique relates to their class concept. Why should they, being Divine classes, be able to dispell en masse the Arcane effects of Mages or the musical/magical effects of Bards and Enchanters. I don't see the concept behind it. It would be like giving a Berserker the ability to spell reflect (which Crusaders get, by the way).Conceptually, I've always seen Dispells as being the realm of Enchanters and Bards (primarily Enchanters). When I read that Crusaders got that dispel, the first thing that came out of my mouth was "Wait....what?".</blockquote>Simple oversight is my feeling. nothing new or special just an error in judgement

Marcusaval

02-15-2011, 12:03 PM

This Thread is either Trolling or yet another pathetic thread by the PvP camp calling for a Nerf on Crusaders without any thought or care for the wider consequences in the game. Theres is a life outside PvP where these effects are not considered over powered. We have already had our heals nerfed on the back of calls for balance and PvP gripes so focus on your own classes instead of calling for Nerfs on other players.

Notsovilepriest

02-15-2011, 02:51 PM

<cite>Marcusavalon wrote:</cite><blockquote>This Thread is either Trolling or yet another pathetic thread by the PvP camp calling for a Nerf on Crusaders without any thought or care for the wider consequences in the game. Theres is a life outside PvP where these effects are not considered over powered. We have already had our heals nerfed on the back of calls for balance and PvP gripes so focus on your own classes instead of calling for Nerfs on other players.</blockquote>There is also a PvP tab, Welcome to EQ2, Nice to to meet you

Lalen

02-16-2011, 12:48 AM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lark42 wrote:</cite><blockquote>As far as which classes should get Doom Judgment--I have no clue why this was given to the Crusaders. I don't see how the technique relates to their class concept. Why should they, being Divine classes, be able to dispell en masse the Arcane effects of Mages or the musical/magical effects of Bards and Enchanters. I don't see the concept behind it. It would be like giving a Berserker the ability to spell reflect (which Crusaders get, by the way).Conceptually, I've always seen Dispells as being the realm of Enchanters and Bards (primarily Enchanters). When I read that Crusaders got that dispel, the first thing that came out of my mouth was "Wait....what?".</blockquote>Simple oversight is my feeling. nothing new or special just an error in judgement</blockquote>So, what exactly would you have SOE do with the knight classes exactly? I'm just curious... With nearly no heals and no dps what exactly do you propose giving to a knight that they can use to have a place in pvp or raids? Again just pure cuiosity. Anyone that can answer that, I'd be more than happy to remin quiet while you traple all over the knights.

Crismorn

02-16-2011, 02:02 AM

How about amazing dps/healing for a fighter that you seem incapable of using or possibly the hp, mit, avoidance, gireat cc.Its a very powerful ability that was "imo" given to crusaders without any thought of how powerful it would be 4years in the future it would not be the first time nor the 100th

DMIstar

02-16-2011, 02:22 AM

Really the thing only dispels two in the area and not all the dam time if its resisted with gear that most should be supporting by now. There is nothing overpowering about the thing. And majority of the matchs is going to have crusaders on both sides of the field anyway.The only cryers about this is those in gears who think they should be able to combo up and remain that way for the remainder of the fight.Hell its not even a deal breaker on the fights with the screwed up pooling system.

Killque

02-16-2011, 03:31 AM

My favorite is when you get into a fight with 4 Crusaiders. Good luck keeping even your fastest casting buff up.

Brigh

02-16-2011, 05:27 AM

Don't forget that (it seems that) brigands get the same ability in a single target version. I always seem to get 3 buffs stripped off me when a brigand comes around. IMO that is just op if it is not on a long timer. I know nothing about what it is or anything outside T7 PvE swash. I think, along with many others, that brigands have had the op easy mode since pvp server inception. Much of this has to do with the poor control immunity mechanics. No class (swash etc included) should have so much power to stun lock simply because the stuns are so short that they only have an immunity of 2-4 seconds (last I heard immunity was based on x2 control length, so 1 sec stun = 2 sec immunity, then it could be landed again).

Killque

02-16-2011, 08:30 AM

<cite>Brigh wrote:</cite><blockquote>Don't forget that (it seems that) brigands get the same ability in a single target version. I always seem to get 3 buffs stripped off me when a brigand comes around. IMO that is just op if it is not on a long timer. I know nothing about what it is or anything outside T7 PvE swash. I think, along with many others, that brigands have had the op easy mode since pvp server inception. Much of this has to do with the poor control immunity mechanics. No class (swash etc included) should have so much power to stun lock simply because the stuns are so short that they only have an immunity of 2-4 seconds (last I heard immunity was based on x2 control length, so 1 sec stun = 2 sec immunity, then it could be landed again).</blockquote>Single target is by no means OP or broken. I have a warden and use Serene Symbol as often as I can remember. I generally save mine for Crusaiders so the get a taste of their own medicine, Wizards Warlocks so they are not invinceable with their stupid regenerating ward or Manashield and I LOVE hitting Dirges/Troubs because my main is a Dirge and i*%$@ hatted getting debuffed because it seemed to strip off like 8 buffs! Arg.Anyway, with tants etc Single target dispell is less than OP, even Wardens with a 45 second or so recast. Aoe Dispell on a short reuse however I could see being an issue, but is acutally just more of an anoyance. More anoying for me specificlly because I box and having to keep two toons buffed is a serious PITA, but thats how the cookie crumbles.

Lalen

02-16-2011, 12:54 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>How about amazing dps/healing for a fighter that you seem incapable of using or possibly the hp, mit, avoidance, gireat cc.Its a very powerful ability that was "imo" given to crusaders without any thought of how powerful it would be 4years in the future it would not be the first time nor the 100th</blockquote>You're forgetting, still they have "NO PLACE". Guardians can mit/avoid better, and lets not even start on the dps, as their dps is lower than any other class I have seen so far at my tier and level. So DPS? Thats out.. So crowd control then? What if they can't tank it? You still haven't given an answer to what exactly their "specail" ability should be. They can heal? Woopie, everone can.. They can tank? Woopie, all plates can. They can weild a sword? Weak... So they get AOE dispell? Awesome, like the only awesome thing a knight gets that sets a knight in his/her own category and gives them a place. So before we start taking away an ability that simply strips buffs away, lets start nerfing other things like the Assasin's one-shot-a-mob-to-10%, wizard's oneshot any player to death, coercer's "control" features on players.While we are at it, lets nerf the Fey's jump abilitiy that is soo OP, I wouldn't want them jumping out of range when I hit doom judgement.<cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Brigh wrote:</cite><blockquote>Don't forget that (it seems that) brigands get the same ability in a single target version. I always seem to get 3 buffs stripped off me when a brigand comes around. IMO that is just op if it is not on a long timer. I know nothing about what it is or anything outside T7 PvE swash. I think, along with many others, that brigands have had the op easy mode since pvp server inception. Much of this has to do with the poor control immunity mechanics. No class (swash etc included) should have so much power to stun lock simply because the stuns are so short that they only have an immunity of 2-4 seconds (last I heard immunity was based on x2 control length, so 1 sec stun = 2 sec immunity, then it could be landed again).</blockquote>Single target is by no means OP or broken. I have a warden and use Serene Symbol as often as I can remember. I generally save mine for Crusaiders so the get a taste of their own medicine, Wizards Warlocks so they are not invinceable with their stupid regenerating ward or Manashield and I LOVE hitting Dirges/Troubs because my main is a Dirge and i*%$@ hatted getting debuffed because it seemed to strip off like 8 buffs! Arg.Anyway, with tants etc Single target dispell is less than OP, even Wardens with a 45 second or so recast. Aoe Dispell on a short reuse however I could see being an issue, but is acutally just more of an anoyance. More anoying for me specificlly because I box and having to keep two toons buffed is a serious PITA, but thats how the cookie crumbles.</blockquote>So.. .Single target, insta cast is ok? I'll take that.

Crismorn

02-16-2011, 04:25 PM

I cant tell if you are trolling me or just incapable of playing this game with even the most basic understanding of eq2.Yes other fighters have mit too, I'm glad you can see past the other 18 classes in eq2 and just pretend like they are not there as for healing and dpsing apparently you have not read your spells/ca's/aa's trust me they are there you just have to read them and then press them in actualy combat.Eq2 is balanced at cap not at lvl 33, 52, 81, 17 or 48 it is balanced at lvl 90

Lethe5683

02-16-2011, 04:28 PM

<cite>Marcusavalon wrote:</cite><blockquote>This Thread is either Trolling or yet another pathetic thread by the PvP camp calling for a Nerf on Crusaders without any thought or care for the wider consequences in the game. Theres is a life outside PvP where these effects are not considered over powered. We have already had our heals nerfed on the back of calls for balance and PvP gripes so focus on your own classes instead of calling for Nerfs on other players.</blockquote>The heals were not nerfed because of being op in pvp, they were neverfed because they were op globally. I belive the change was mostly directed at SKs though.

Lalen

02-16-2011, 05:23 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>I cant tell if you are trolling me or just incapable of playing this game with even the most basic understanding of eq2.Yes other fighters have mit too, I'm glad you can see past the other 18 classes in eq2 and just pretend like they are not there as for healing and dpsing apparently you have not read your spells/ca's/aa's trust me they are there you just have to read them and then press them in actualy combat.Eq2 is balanced at cap not at lvl 33, 52, 81, 17 or 48 it is balanced at lvl 90</blockquote>Even at level 90 the only thing knights are good for is soloing. In 1vs1 PVP they're often mowed down by a caster or dps class with same tier gear - not unless you can time each knock-down with micro-precision. My point was is knights possess meaty-ocra skillsets, like most of the classes they are indeed watered down, but knights are the most watered down having, only Doom Judgement to speak of - you go nerfing that, then you mine as well clean up the database of all the pally/sk toons out there because you won't see them in pvp any more.I was not trolling ya, I was trying to make the point that the aoe dispell which only dispells a grand total of like 180 levels (about 2-4 total good buffs) is not as "aoe" as you think. If you have 6 players around you, each with 12 really good buffs, the knight can't even fully dispell one person, which turns this into a single-target dispell. So back to that point, there are a lot of other classes out there that are a LOT MORE OP than a "sorta-kinda aoe debuff".<cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Marcusavalon wrote:</cite><blockquote>This Thread is either Trolling or yet another pathetic thread by the PvP camp calling for a Nerf on Crusaders without any thought or care for the wider consequences in the game. Theres is a life outside PvP where these effects are not considered over powered. We have already had our heals nerfed on the back of calls for balance and PvP gripes so focus on your own classes instead of calling for Nerfs on other players.</blockquote>The heals were not nerfed because of being op in pvp, they were neverfed because they were op globally. I belive the change was mostly directed at SKs though.</blockquote>And paladins. From what I was told pallies were able to crit heal until that heal nerf which doesn't happen any more. The LOH in this game is a darn shame and a joke (/mourn pally LOH in EQ1). Lore states that LOH (as well as HT) is supposed to be an innate ability, an ability that the kights can use even when, "EXAUSTED". These abilities are also supposed to be the strongest there are with huge cool-downs. EQ1's LOH is 0 mana cost, 60K (complete) heal with max AA's. The only heal a paladin has that is worth its weight is Crusader's Faith, and thats an AA though I'd love to either see the reuse of that shortened or the duration increased in the second rank (or third rank if they expand upon it in Vellious).

Vlahkmaak

02-17-2011, 12:22 AM

<cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>1.) Even at level 90 the only thing knights are good for is soloing. 2.) In 1vs1 PVP they're often mowed down by a caster or dps class with same tier gear - not unless you can time each knock-down with micro-precision. My point was is knights possess meaty-ocra skillsets, like most of the classes they are indeed watered down, but knights are the most watered down having, only Doom Judgement to speak of - you go nerfing that, then you mine as well clean up the database of all the pally/sk toons out there because you won't see them in pvp any more.I was not trolling ya, I was trying to make the point that the aoe dispell which only dispells a grand total of like 180 levels (about 2-4 total good buffs) is not as "aoe" as you think. If you have 6 players around you, each with 12 really good buffs, the knight can't even fully dispell one person, which turns this into a single-target dispell. So back to that point, there are a lot of other classes out there that are a LOT MORE OP than a "sorta-kinda aoe debuff".<cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Marcusavalon wrote:</cite><blockquote>This Thread is either Trolling or yet another pathetic thread by the PvP camp calling for a Nerf on Crusaders without any thought or care for the wider consequences in the game. Theres is a life outside PvP where these effects are not considered over powered. We have already had our heals nerfed on the back of calls for balance and PvP gripes so focus on your own classes instead of calling for Nerfs on other players.</blockquote>The heals were not nerfed because of being op in pvp, they were neverfed because they were op globally. I belive the change was mostly directed at SKs though.</blockquote>And paladins. 3.) From what I was told pallies were able to crit heal until that heal nerf which doesn't happen any more. The LOH in this game is a darn shame and a joke (/mourn pally LOH in EQ1). Lore states that LOH (as well as HT) is supposed to be an innate ability, an ability that the kights can use even when, "EXAUSTED". These abilities are also supposed to be the strongest there are with huge cool-downs. EQ1's LOH is 0 mana cost, 60K (complete) heal with max AA's. The only heal a paladin has that is worth its weight is Crusader's Faith, and thats an AA though I'd love to either see the reuse of that shortened or the duration increased in the second rank (or third rank if they expand upon it in Vellious).</blockquote>1.) You absolutelty cannot be seriously argueing this point was my first reaction to this post. Crusaders are not only good for soloing: They exceed at everything. There was a time when crusaders, ESPECIALLY Sks, needed some serious attention in the PVE realm about 2+ years ago). Most of the community generally agrees they needed attention and most would probabally agree that after a few weeks the original fighter re-balance went way too far in one direction.Fighters are getting closer to being balanced based on the ongoing asumption that all plate fighters are supposed to be inter changable (until the new class manifesto holy grail is released we won't know for sure what SOE envisions our basic job function as -MT/OT or current Any Tank will do paradigm, etc.) balanced2.) In 1:1 pvp equal geared crusaders are not mowed down by = geared casters/dps classes. Superior geared/played yes but =gear/skill mowdown - not a chance in hell. One would really have to suck by an astronomical amount if your getting 1 shotted by = geared/skilled casters/dps classes. If your getting decimated repeatedly by another toon chances are your much lower geared than that toon as generally skill is secondary to gear + procs.3.) "From what I was told" is never an acceptable source especially if it came from the SKs/Pallies you spoke of in example #2 above. Roll up a crusader and see for yourself if they are only good for soloing. Even poorly geared they perform quite phenomenally..

Lalen

02-17-2011, 12:36 AM

<cite>Vlahkmaak@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>1.) You absolutelty cannot be seriously argueing this point was my first reaction to this post. Crusaders are not only good for soloing: They exceed at everything. There was a time when crusaders, ESPECIALLY Sks, needed some serious attention in the PVE realm about 2+ years ago). Most of the community generally agrees they needed attention and most would probabally agree that after a few weeks the original fighter re-balance went way too far in one direction.</blockquote>By all means name it - what exactly are they exceptional in doing besides AOE hate which is rather useless in pvp with the /prev_target hotkeyed.<cite>Vlahkmaak@Nagafen wrote:</cite> <blockquote>2.) In 1:1 pvp equal geared crusaders are not mowed down by = geared casters/dps classes. Superior geared/played yes but =gear/skill mowdown - not a chance in hell. One would really have to suck by an astronomical amount if your getting 1 shotted by = geared/skilled casters/dps classes. If your getting decimated repeatedly by another toon chances are your much lower geared than that toon as generally skill is secondary to gear + procs.</blockquote> LOGIC FAIL: That entire concept was an explaination failure on your part. So two people that are EQUAL geared, EQUAL aa, EQUAL abilities, and the knight gets one shot and therefor he sucks before given a chance to do anything? You see where your logic fails here?<cite>Vlahkmaak@Nagafen wrote:</cite> <blockquote>3.) "From what I was told" is never an acceptable source especially if it came from the SKs/Pallies you spoke of in example #2 above. Roll up a crusader and see for yourself if they are only good for soloing. Even poorly geared they perform quite phenomenally.</blockquote> I currently play a level 90 Pally with full PVP gear. Also a few others but I nurse a pally through the lore of EQ1. SK's? I do know they have a few stronger suits, but I still have no desire to play one.But since you discredted the knight's heal nerf, please tell me, what exactly was nerfed? Because I've confirmed now from 3 other paladins that there was a heal nerf and on my paladin EVERY SINGLE HEAL explicitly says, "This effect cannot be critically applied". Not sure if that was from the nerf or not, but if it were, thats a pretty serious nerf.Paladins do not perform well even with level 90 Legendary gear. Perhapse they get a boost with pure fabled gear but paladins do not shine in a group by far like other classes (with less gear) can. Lets take a warden or even a ranger for example... Case and point without futher arguement.

Notsovilepriest

02-17-2011, 01:48 AM

<cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vlahkmaak@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>1.) You absolutelty cannot be seriously argueing this point was my first reaction to this post. Crusaders are not only good for soloing: They exceed at everything. There was a time when crusaders, ESPECIALLY Sks, needed some serious attention in the PVE realm about 2+ years ago). Most of the community generally agrees they needed attention and most would probabally agree that after a few weeks the original fighter re-balance went way too far in one direction.</blockquote>By all means name it - what exactly are they exceptional in doing besides AOE hate which is rather useless in pvp with the /prev_target hotkeyed.Shows your knowledge of PvP. You can't retarget while taunted. You are stuck on the tank or with no target at all until the duration of taunt is off, regardless of how much you spam "/prev_target"<cite>Vlahkmaak@Nagafen wrote:</cite> <blockquote>2.) In 1:1 pvp equal geared crusaders are not mowed down by = geared casters/dps classes. Superior geared/played yes but =gear/skill mowdown - not a chance in hell. One would really have to suck by an astronomical amount if your getting 1 shotted by = geared/skilled casters/dps classes. If your getting decimated repeatedly by another toon chances are your much lower geared than that toon as generally skill is secondary to gear + procs.</blockquote> LOGIC FAIL: That entire concept was an explaination failure on your part. So two people that are EQUAL geared, EQUAL aa, EQUAL abilities, and the knight gets one shot and therefor he sucks before given a chance to do anything? You see where your logic fails here?<cite>Vlahkmaak@Nagafen wrote:</cite> <blockquote>3.) "From what I was told" is never an acceptable source especially if it came from the SKs/Pallies you spoke of in example #2 above. Roll up a crusader and see for yourself if they are only good for soloing. Even poorly geared they perform quite phenomenally.</blockquote> I currently play a level 90 Pally with full PVP gear. Also a few others but I nurse a pally through the lore of EQ1. SK's? I do know they have a few stronger suits, but I still have no desire to play one.But since you discredted the knight's heal nerf, please tell me, what exactly was nerfed? Because I've confirmed now from 3 other paladins that there was a heal nerf and on my paladin EVERY SINGLE HEAL explicitly says, "This effect cannot be critically applied". Not sure if that was from the nerf or not, but if it were, thats a pretty serious nerf.Paladins do not perform well even with level 90 Legendary gear. Perhapse they get a boost with pure fabled gear but paladins do not shine in a group by far like other classes (with less gear) can. Lets take a warden or even a ranger for example... Case and point without futher arguement.Lore arguement is dumb, Lore can be melded to fit anything they deem better design at the time. They nerfed heals on all fighters because...It's not their job and they were far too good at it on their own, while they didn't compensate correctly at first they did rework pally heals in Beta so they are still trying to find that balance for them. It wasn't specific to pally only but all fighters across the board. I'd agrue it had more to do with the Zerker AA Heal. Gear matters for every single tank more than anything else...because they get hit by the mobs so the plights of an average geared pally are the blights of all other fighters on live(Minus Zerkers to an extent). Wardens do well with almost no gear true, but Rangers are extremely gear dependent for their DPS since a large majority comes from procs as well as all the modifiers that are on higher end gear.</blockquote>

Vlahkmaak

02-17-2011, 02:03 AM

<cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite><a href="mailto:Vlahkmaak@Nagafen">Vlahkmaak@Nagafen</a> wrote:</cite><blockquote>2.) In 1:1 pvp equal geared crusaders are not mowed down by = geared casters/dps classes. Superior geared/played yes but =gear/skill mowdown - not a chance in hell. One would really have to suck by an astronomical amount if your getting 1 shotted by = geared/skilled casters/dps classes. If your getting decimated repeatedly by another toon chances are your much lower geared than that toon as generally skill is secondary to gear + procs.</blockquote>LOGIC FAIL: That entire concept was an explaination failure on your part. So two people that are EQUAL geared, EQUAL aa, EQUAL abilities, and the knight gets one shot and therefor he sucks before given a chance to do anything? You see where your logic fails here?<cite>Vlahkmaak@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>3.) "From what I was told" is never an acceptable source especially if it came from the SKs/Pallies you spoke of in example #2 above. Roll up a crusader and see for yourself if they are only good for soloing. Even poorly geared they perform quite phenomenally.</blockquote>I currently play a level 90 Pally with full PVP gear. Also a few others but I nurse a pally through the lore of EQ1. SK's? I do know they have a few stronger suits, but I still have no desire to play one.But since you discredted the knight's heal nerf, please tell me, what exactly was nerfed? Because I've confirmed now from 3 other paladins that there was a heal nerf and on my paladin EVERY SINGLE HEAL explicitly says, "This effect cannot be critically applied". Not sure if that was from the nerf or not, but if it were, thats a pretty serious nerf.Paladins do not perform well even with level 90 Legendary gear. Perhapse they get a boost with pure fabled gear but paladins do not shine in a group by far like other classes (with less gear) can. Lets take a warden or even a ranger for example... Case and point without futher arguement.</blockquote>Re-read your post. Your the one that claimed pallies get mowed over by casters and dps. If your getting mowed over by casters and DPS 1:1 in = gear then you are less skilled at playing the paladin than you may think you are. It is IMPOSSIBLE to get 1 shotted on a paladin by an equal geared/skilled player. Just look at the basic math: In full PVP gear you should be rocking at least 25k HP, 75% n/a/e resists and 72% physical mitigation and 100% pvp crit mit. You also have a buff that gives you passive damage reduction. No equal class can mow you over in one shot. A far superior geared dps class yes but not even then once you are fully pvp geared. You will prob loose to a superior dps class in t3/4 raid armor but not in one shot once your fully pvp geared.If you play a 90 fully pvp geared paladin then why did you need to be told that their heals used to crit? Did you just recently get power leveled? Also re-read my post. I said nothing about paladin heals. I said crusaders DO NOT suck and DO NOT get mowed over as you suggest by equal geared/skilled players. I did not say their heals were not nerfed. Learn to read b4 you go all rabid on me. If you had half a clue you would know that I was fairly active as a warrior against the fighter heal nerf as I did not then believe that was the proper way to deal with inter-fighter issues.I have tanked almost every t1 raid mob on my pally in far less gear than my guardian in x1-3 strength excepting Rohen so far. Paladins do not suck. And my Paladin is wearing some legendary gear btw because I pass extra tank loot to guildie alts b4 my tank alts as paladins do quite well with less gear than guardians. Paladins also excel at aoe content. Once you spend some more time on the class you will see I am right.

Yimway

02-17-2011, 01:26 PM

Brigh

02-17-2011, 04:45 PM

<cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Brigh wrote:</cite><blockquote>Don't forget that (it seems that) brigands get the same ability in a single target version. I always seem to get 3 buffs stripped off me when a brigand comes around. IMO that is just op if it is not on a long timer. I know nothing about what it is or anything outside T7 PvE swash. I think, along with many others, that brigands have had the op easy mode since pvp server inception. Much of this has to do with the poor control immunity mechanics. No class (swash etc included) should have so much power to stun lock simply because the stuns are so short that they only have an immunity of 2-4 seconds (last I heard immunity was based on x2 control length, so 1 sec stun = 2 sec immunity, then it could be landed again).</blockquote>Single target is by no means OP or broken. I have a warden and use Serene Symbol as often as I can remember. I generally save mine for Crusaiders so the get a taste of their own medicine, Wizards Warlocks so they are not invinceable with their stupid regenerating ward or Manashield and I LOVE hitting Dirges/Troubs because my main is a Dirge and i*%$@ hatted getting debuffed because it seemed to strip off like 8 buffs! Arg.Anyway, with tants etc Single target dispell is less than OP, even Wardens with a 45 second or so recast. Aoe Dispell on a short reuse however I could see being an issue, but is acutally just more of an anoyance. More anoying for me specificlly because I box and having to keep two toons buffed is a serious PITA, but thats how the cookie crumbles.</blockquote>

Striikor

02-17-2011, 05:16 PM

It does not make sense to me to have any buff that is 'until canceled' removed entirely. It happens all the time on my Mystic. At most it should be a temporary removal, with some sort of time factor like a debuff would have, it should NEVER under any circumstances be AoE. When my Mystic gets killed I spend an inordinate amout of time to recast dog, runic armor, ancetral mettle, spirit of the mammoth, ancestral avatar, Premonition and ancestry.I sure as heck don't have time to recast them while trying to keep my group up and being chain taunted and interrupted. If the dog is killed and I have to recast all my until canceled spells I have to find 13 seconds of uninterrupted casting! That has no chance to happen in BG's.Give dispells a limted time to be effective. Dispel for 5 or 10 seconds and then it goes away or for even 30 seconds at a reduction of the buff by 50% or something. But to be able to AoE it and to have it from some of the sources is comes from is just ridiculous. Dispel should be a single target and mage only talent in my view.

Megavolt

02-18-2011, 12:13 AM

<cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is already a LIMITED ability in PVP and not half as broken as the warden heals. ...then dispell the HoT's and keep them stunned. To me it's not the effect of a single crusader that's OP it's the fact that with the overrall imbalance of the BG's towards crusaders and away from other tank classes, multiple crusaders are using the effect together. I personally wouldn't mind an effect of an immunity timer equal to the cooldown being added so being spammed by multiple crusaders doesn't leave entire raids buffless. That way it doesn't nerf the individua crusaders, just the groups.</blockquote>

Lalen

02-18-2011, 03:17 AM

<cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite> <blockquote>It does not make sense to me to have any buff that is 'until canceled' removed entirely. It happens all the time on my Mystic. At most it should be a temporary removal, with some sort of time factor like a debuff would have, it should NEVER under any circumstances be AoE. When my Mystic gets killed I spend an inordinate amout of time to recast dog, runic armor, ancetral mettle, spirit of the mammoth, ancestral avatar, Premonition and ancestry.I sure as heck don't have time to recast them while trying to keep my group up and being chain taunted and interrupted. If the dog is killed and I have to recast all my until canceled spells I have to find 13 seconds of uninterrupted casting! That has no chance to happen in BG's.Give dispells a limted time to be effective. Dispel for 5 or 10 seconds and then it goes away or for even 30 seconds at a reduction of the buff by 50% or something. But to be able to AoE it and to have it from some of the sources is comes from is just ridiculous. Dispel should be a single target and mage only talent in my view.</blockquote>That is the beauty of it you have to decide at that point which is more vital -- buffs or heals. You are still forgetting that unless you only have 2 or 3 buffs a knight cannot even fully dispell you.I think what we have here is a failure to understand the mechanics of the doom judgement and its evil counterpart lines. First of all -- YES -- it is an AOE dispell. However the spell itself is "counted". As it knocks off a debuff on a single person (not everyone) the effect takes a hit until there are none left. With Expert levels of this spell it generally ONLY REMOVES TWO TO THREE BUFFS. If YOU happen to be the unfortunate soul that the spell checks first, and you have 8 buffs, THE BUFF WILL NOT DISPELL ANYONE ELSE AROUND YOU thus the spell just turned into a single-target debuff.Now lets put a little logic to work here - Should we, the community, really be encouraging SOE to "take away" an AOE dispell that a knight has absolutely no control over whom gets dispelled (as it is at "random") whilst giving them the "non-OP" version of a dispell that allows the knight to choose whom gets dispelled? You see what you're asking for here and you see why you folks are also misinterpreting my fustration to your ignorance as some kind of "defensive" reaction here? By all means NERF THE DARN SPELL! Just give us the targetable version and I'll be one happy pally!<cite>Megavolt@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is already a LIMITED ability in PVP and not half as broken as the warden heals. ...then dispell the HoT's and keep them stunned. To me it's not the effect of a single crusader that's OP it's the fact that with the overrall imbalance of the BG's towards crusaders and away from other tank classes, multiple crusaders are using the effect together. I personally wouldn't mind an effect of an immunity timer equal to the cooldown being added so being spammed by multiple crusaders doesn't leave entire raids buffless. That way it doesn't nerf the individua crusaders, just the groups.</blockquote></blockquote>Then by this logic and via consideration of "fairness" an immunity timer should be global -- if a wizard hits a player with a 10K nuke, no other wizard should be able to hit that player again until the first wizard's cool-down is complete -- Likewise, a warden/mystic/templar/etc's heals should also have the same effect so they can't chain heal one person in a group making them invonerable to melee attack -- when you start nerfing one thing as trivial as a debuff then it will come back to bite you in the hine quarters because thats what happens with SOE -- When they bring out that nerf stick they hit people hard with it and their wrath isn't usually limited to just one archtype either.<cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote>It does not make sense to me to have any buff that is 'until canceled' removed entirely. It happens all the time on my Mystic. At most it should be a temporary removal, with some sort of time factor like a debuff would have, it should NEVER under any circumstances be AoE. When my Mystic gets killed I spend an inordinate amout of time to recast dog, runic armor, ancetral mettle, spirit of the mammoth, ancestral avatar, Premonition and ancestry.</blockquote>Would you rather it kock off the single-target buffs like SOW first? I mean come on, put on your thinking caps class..../em still waiting for the EQ1 version of Clash of Marr (I think it was Marr w/e that level 30 mana drain was) and BLIND to be put into EQ2.

Striikor

02-18-2011, 10:57 AM

<cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote>It does not make sense to me to have any buff that is 'until canceled' removed entirely. It happens all the time on my Mystic. At most it should be a temporary removal, with some sort of time factor like a debuff would have, it should NEVER under any circumstances be AoE. When my Mystic gets killed I spend an inordinate amout of time to recast dog, runic armor, ancetral mettle, spirit of the mammoth, ancestral avatar, Premonition and ancestry.I sure as heck don't have time to recast them while trying to keep my group up and being chain taunted and interrupted. If the dog is killed and I have to recast all my until canceled spells I have to find 13 seconds of uninterrupted casting! That has no chance to happen in BG's.Give dispells a limted time to be effective. Dispel for 5 or 10 seconds and then it goes away or for even 30 seconds at a reduction of the buff by 50% or something. But to be able to AoE it and to have it from some of the sources is comes from is just ridiculous. Dispel should be a single target and mage only talent in my view.</blockquote>That is the beauty of it you have to decide at that point which is more vital -- buffs or heals. You are still forgetting that unless you only have 2 or 3 buffs a knight cannot even fully dispell you.I think what we have here is a failure to understand the mechanics of the doom judgement and its evil counterpart lines. First of all -- YES -- it is an AOE dispell. However the spell itself is "counted". As it knocks off a debuff on a single person (not everyone) the effect takes a hit until there are none left. With Expert levels of this spell it generally ONLY REMOVES TWO TO THREE BUFFS. If YOU happen to be the unfortunate soul that the spell checks first, and you have 8 buffs, THE BUFF WILL NOT DISPELL ANYONE ELSE AROUND YOU thus the spell just turned into a single-target debuff.Now lets put a little logic to work here - Should we, the community, really be encouraging SOE to "take away" an AOE dispell that a knight has absolutely no control over whom gets dispelled (as it is at "random") whilst giving them the "non-OP" version of a dispell that allows the knight to choose whom gets dispelled? You see what you're asking for here and you see why you folks are also misinterpreting my fustration to your ignorance as some kind of "defensive" reaction here? By all means NERF THE DARN SPELL! Just give us the targetable version and I'll be one happy pally!<cite>Megavolt@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is already a LIMITED ability in PVP and not half as broken as the warden heals. ...then dispell the HoT's and keep them stunned. To me it's not the effect of a single crusader that's OP it's the fact that with the overrall imbalance of the BG's towards crusaders and away from other tank classes, multiple crusaders are using the effect together. I personally wouldn't mind an effect of an immunity timer equal to the cooldown being added so being spammed by multiple crusaders doesn't leave entire raids buffless. That way it doesn't nerf the individua crusaders, just the groups.</blockquote></blockquote>Then by this logic and via consideration of "fairness" an immunity timer should be global -- if a wizard hits a player with a 10K nuke, no other wizard should be able to hit that player again until the first wizard's cool-down is complete -- Likewise, a warden/mystic/templar/etc's heals should also have the same effect so they can't chain heal one person in a group making them invonerable to melee attack -- when you start nerfing one thing as trivial as a debuff then it will come back to bite you in the hine quarters because thats what happens with SOE -- When they bring out that nerf stick they hit people hard with it and their wrath isn't usually limited to just one archtype either.<cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote>It does not make sense to me to have any buff that is 'until canceled' removed entirely. It happens all the time on my Mystic. At most it should be a temporary removal, with some sort of time factor like a debuff would have, it should NEVER under any circumstances be AoE. When my Mystic gets killed I spend an inordinate amout of time to recast dog, runic armor, ancetral mettle, spirit of the mammoth, ancestral avatar, Premonition and ancestry.</blockquote>Would you rather it kock off the single-target buffs like SOW first? I mean come on, put on your thinking caps class..../em still waiting for the EQ1 version of Clash of Marr (I think it was Marr w/e that level 30 mana drain was) and BLIND to be put into EQ2.</blockquote>What does that commercial say .... oh yeah PRICELESS <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Your right about failure to understand but not on this side of the argument! And no, not like SoW LOLIf it removed things like Bolster, RoA .... all the lingering 24-30sec Debuffs I have running etc... that would be fine. It would be irritating but not OP.No spell removal should touch any Buff that is 'Until Canceled'. That is just plain punitive. It should at the VERY most have a timed effect and not a permanent effect requiring recasting on those spells.I have not checked it myself but if it is, as reported by some, also removing Wards then that is hugely OP!

Rahatmattata

02-18-2011, 11:22 PM

It also dispels green potions which is completely stupid.

Lalen

02-19-2011, 06:06 AM

<cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote>What does that commercial say .... oh yeah PRICELESS <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />Your right about failure to understand but not on this side of the argument! And no, not like SoW LOLIf it removed things like Bolster, RoA .... all the lingering 24-30sec Debuffs I have running etc... that would be fine. It would be irritating but not OP.No spell removal should touch any Buff that is 'Until Canceled'. That is just plain punitive. It should at the VERY most have a timed effect and not a permanent effect requiring recasting on those spells.I have not checked it myself but if it is, as reported by some, also removing Wards then that is hugely OP!</blockquote>I'm sorry, are you griping over the fact most dispell classes can (and shouldn't be able to) debuff those spells or griping because knights can dispell them -- because I actually thought this topic was about "AOE Dispel", not some personal vendeta against knights because you weren't expecting one to rip off a buff that wizards and necros usually debuff. I'll reserve my retort until you respond.<cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote>It also dispels green potions which is completely stupid.</blockquote>That is 100% untrue. I just tested that in a quick box vs box duel. My box [templar] with only Elixer of Constitution and Elixer of Thorns up, none were removed with pally doom judgement.EDIT:Upon further testing with Pally vs SK, Sk's doom line does not dispell AA buffs/wards/etc ie. Fearless Morale, Aura of Leadership, and Battle Leadership. In fact the only sustained buffs I could get it to remove were Blessed Weapon VII (Master), Blessing of the Paladin, Crusade, and Divine Inspiration. All others remained untouched for over 6 rounds of dooming -- "Stance" lines, AA buffs, diety pet, Divine Favor, and Amends remained untouched. Much appreciated if another person boxing a duel can confirm this please.

Striikor

02-19-2011, 09:47 AM

<cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote>What does that commercial say .... oh yeah PRICELESS <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />Your right about failure to understand but not on this side of the argument! And no, not like SoW LOLIf it removed things like Bolster, RoA .... all the lingering 24-30sec Debuffs I have running etc... that would be fine. It would be irritating but not OP.No spell removal should touch any Buff that is 'Until Canceled'. That is just plain punitive. It should at the VERY most have a timed effect and not a permanent effect requiring recasting on those spells.I have not checked it myself but if it is, as reported by some, also removing Wards then that is hugely OP!</blockquote>I'm sorry, are you griping over the fact most dispell classes can (and shouldn't be able to) debuff those spells or griping because knights can dispell them -- because I actually thought this topic was about "AOE Dispel", not some personal vendeta against knights because you weren't expecting one to rip off a buff that wizards and necros usually debuff. I'll reserve my retort until you respond.<cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote>It also dispels green potions which is completely stupid.</blockquote>That is 100% untrue. I just tested that in a quick box vs box duel. My box [templar] with only Elixer of Constitution and Elixer of Thorns up, none were removed with pally doom judgement.EDIT:Upon further testing with Pally vs SK, Sk's doom line does not dispell AA buffs/wards/etc ie. Fearless Morale, Aura of Leadership, and Battle Leadership. In fact the only sustained buffs I could get it to remove were Blessed Weapon VII (Master), Blessing of the Paladin, Crusade, and Divine Inspiration. All others remained untouched for over 6 rounds of dooming -- "Stance" lines, AA buffs, diety pet, Divine Favor, and Amends remained untouched. Much appreciated if another person boxing a duel can confirm this please.</blockquote>I have no problem with AoE or targeted dispelling of temporary buffs or even debuffs if no buffs are up. My Mystic has plenty of those to dispell, Bolster, Stampede, RoA, Ancestral Sentry, Impenetrable Will, Leg Bite, Immunity, Ancestral Balm, Spirit Tap. But you have to have them all? There is a rule somewhere that it must always be effective? It seems to me the hit chance for dispell is very high since it almost always costs me 10 seconds or so to rebuff those after getting killed. Lots of times that is just enough time for the rest of my group to get wiped out so I don't do it. So I can forgo the rebuffing and jump straight to keeping my group up with out the rebuffs. Which is mostly what I do since it is rare to have the group wait for the time it takes to rebuff, or find group members all pread out in the middle of a BG.I would even be confortable if it were just restricted to spells that were temporary or needed to be recast if you died which would add Premonition, Ancestral Avatar and Ancestry.So for you to have the ability to remove: <ul><li>Bolster</li><li>Stampede</li><li>Ritual of Alacrity</li><li>Ancestral Sentry</li><li>Impenetrable Will</li><li>Leg Bite</li><li>Immunity</li><li>Ancestral Balm</li><li>Spirit Tap</li><li>Premonition</li><li>Ancestral Avatar</li><li>Ancestry</li></ul>is not enough eh? They are all temporary buffs and I try to keep most of them them up constantly except for Premonition, Ancestral Avatar and Ancestry which must be recast on death. Although tose too are a problem IMO as I have to try and find the group members to cast them on. Hell I would not even mind if it dispelled my Debuffs also a large part of my casting. So yes if dispell doesn't find active temporary buffs to dispell then try on active debuffs. If none are up it should fail and not touch until canceled buffs.Many times 'until canceled' buffs are down for the entire match because of the demands of cures and heals. And yes I think that is OP. Again it should not touch 'until canceled' spells. That is what I would like to see changed/fixed.

Lalen

02-19-2011, 11:17 AM

<cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have no problem with AoE or targeted dispelling of temporary buffs or even debuffs if no buffs are up. My Mystic has plenty of those to dispell, Bolster, Stampede, RoA, Ancestral Sentry, Impenetrable Will, Leg Bite, Immunity, Ancestral Balm, Spirit Tap. But you have to have them all? There is a rule somewhere that it must always be effective? It seems to me the hit chance for dispell is very high since it almost always costs me 10 seconds or so to rebuff those after getting killed. Lots of times that is just enough time for the rest of my group to get wiped out so I don't do it. So I can forgo the rebuffing and jump straight to keeping my group up with out the rebuffs. Which is mostly what I do since it is rare to have the group wait for the time it takes to rebuff, or find group members all pread out in the middle of a BG.I would even be confortable if it were just restricted to spells that were temporary or needed to be recast if you died which would add Premonition, Ancestral Avatar and Ancestry.So for you to have the ability to remove: <ul><li>Bolster</li><li>Stampede</li><li>Ritual of Alacrity</li><li>Ancestral Sentry</li><li>Impenetrable Will</li><li>Leg Bite</li><li>Immunity</li><li>Ancestral Balm</li><li>Spirit Tap</li><li>Premonition</li><li>Ancestral Avatar</li><li>Ancestry</li></ul>is not enough eh? They are all temporary buffs and I try to keep most of them them up constantly except for Premonition, Ancestral Avatar and Ancestry which must be recast on death. Although tose too are a problem IMO as I have to try and find the group members to cast them on. Hell I would not even mind if it dispelled my Debuffs also a large part of my casting. So yes if dispell doesn't find active temporary buffs to dispell then try on active debuffs. If none are up it should fail and not touch until canceled buffs.Many times 'until canceled' buffs are down for the entire match because of the demands of cures and heals. And yes I think that is OP. Again it should not touch 'until canceled' spells. That is what I would like to see changed/fixed.</blockquote>So I was indeed correct in assuming this isn't something targeted at knights or AOE dispellers in general? You're wanting dispells nerfed entirely -- yes?Can a knight remove all those buffs? not in any PVP fight I've seen. Again remember his Dispell is limited to only 2-3 debuffs (250 levels or something like that which will not remove 3 level 90 buffs) on top of which the cool-down is some 5 mins. This isn't like EQ1 where some pvp battles can go on for hours -- In one duel with a berserker I was told that was the longest pvp fight anyone had seen that was watching -- full 2 mins; not even half the time for doom to repop.So lets recap on the logic being put into this thread:1) Peps are ticked that doom can strip too many buffs - As it stands, it can only strip 3 level 90 buffs LIMITED to arcane buffs and noxus buffs. Once those three buffs are done, it cannot dispell anyone else in an AOE effect.2) Peps are ticked that doom has a 5 min refresh.3) Peps are ticked that doom aoe dispells so they perfer a knight be able to pick and choose his victems instead of it being at random.What it appears to me is people are just wanting to see another class nerfed or are completely ignorant of the mechanics of the debuff in realizing how weak it really is.People want it changed to single target in PVP - Awesome, bring it on, then I can go right up to a warden debuff his/her wards and take out the group -- That would make the debuff that much more powerful for me.People want the cool-down changed -- its already as long as Lay On Hands/Harm touch, what else do you want?People don't want it to dispell as many buffs -- It only dispells 3 at Expert, 2 at Adept, 1 at Journeyman, 1 at Apprentice -- REALLY? (no clue what master does, haven't had the time to research that one yet but I would assume it would do maybe 4; maybe less at level 90)I really don't get the problem with the kight's doom line. As it is, it is mainly an AOE slash attack -- thats its only REAL value in pvp except being in a duel -- then it works nicely when you know who it debuffed.To your comment about being stripped in pvp, that would primarily be casters that debuff like that. Every time I've gone up against a Guardian tanking group in a BG with a bunch of wizards and other squishies, I wound up a few seconds later stripped of everything but aa buffs. Yes this shouldn't happen -- They should have lower counters imo because it seems like they can strip everything you have in one cast -- A KNIGHT CANNOT DO THIS.

Rahatmattata

02-19-2011, 12:15 PM

<cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote>It also dispels green potions which is completely stupid.</blockquote>That is 100% untrue.</blockquote>You are 100% wrong. I'll post proof later.

Striikor

02-19-2011, 12:37 PM

In addition it dispels Wards as reported:Vox.crusader's Doom Judgement dispels Umbral Warding from The_Bazaar.Dimen.Vox.crusader's Doom Judgement dispels Ancestral Ward from YOU.Vox.crusader's Doom Judgement dispels Ancestral Ward from YOU.Vox.crusader's Doom Judgement dispels Ward of Sages from Butcherblock.Hause.Oasis.crusader's Doom Judgement dispels Umbral Warding from Everfrost.Pemberton.Oasis.crusader's Doom Judgement dispels Ancestral Ward from Everfrost.Pemberton.Oasis.crusader's Doom Judgement dispels Umbral Warding from Everfrost.Yongca.Oasis.crusader's Doom Judgement dispels Ancestral Ward from Everfrost.Yongca.Oasis.crusader's Doom Judgement dispels Ancestral Ward from Crushbone.Rasac.The_Bazaar.crusader's Doom Judgement dispels Carrion Warding from Nagafen.Gossling.The_Bazaar.crusader's Doom Judgement dispels Carrion Warding from Nagafen.Stucawk.Vox.warlock' Absorb Magic dispels Ward of Sages from Nagafen.Obishi.Everfrost.brigand's Cuss dispels Ancestral Ward from YOU.Nagafen.crusader's Doom Judgement dispels Ward of Sages from Butcherblock.Alyvia.Ancestral Ward and Umbral wards are the two primary heals from a Mystic., yes I think it is OP

Striikor

02-19-2011, 12:43 PM

<cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>1) Peps are ticked that doom can strip too many buffs - As it stands, it can only strip 3 level 90 buffs LIMITED to arcane buffs and noxus buffs. Once those three buffs are done, it cannot dispell anyone else in an AOE effect.</blockquote>Wrong as the log shows:(1297816754)[Tue Feb 15 18:39:14 2011] Vox.Haute's Doom Judgement critically hits The_Bazaar.Dimen for 66 slashing damage.(1297816754)[Tue Feb 15 18:39:14 2011] Vox.Haute's Doom Judgement dispels Signet of Intellect from The_Bazaar.Dimen.(1297816754)[Tue Feb 15 18:39:14 2011] Vox.Haute's Doom Judgement dispels Runic Armor from The_Bazaar.Dimen.(1297816754)[Tue Feb 15 18:39:14 2011] Vox.Haute's Doom Judgement dispels Mind's Eye from The_Bazaar.Dimen.(1297816754)[Tue Feb 15 18:39:14 2011] Vox.Haute's Doom Judgement critically hits Guk.Legionreaver but fails to inflict any damage.(1297816754)[Tue Feb 15 18:39:14 2011] Vox.Haute's Doom Judgement dispels Grim Harbinger from Guk.Legionreaver.(1297816754)[Tue Feb 15 18:39:14 2011] Vox.Haute's Doom Judgement dispels Spirit of the Mammoth from Guk.Legionreaver.(1297816754)[Tue Feb 15 18:39:14 2011] Vox.Haute's Doom Judgement dispels Ritual Healing from Guk.Legionreaver.(1297816754)[Tue Feb 15 18:39:14 2011] Vox.Haute's Doom Judgement dispels Breeze from Guk.Legionreaver.(1297816754)[Tue Feb 15 18:39:14 2011] Vox.Haute's Doom Judgement dispels Signet of Intellect from YOU.(1297816754)[Tue Feb 15 18:39:14 2011] Vox.Haute's Doom Judgement dispels Ancestral Avatar from YOU.(1297816754)[Tue Feb 15 18:39:14 2011] Vox.Haute's Doom Judgement dispels Runic Armor from YOU.

Corydonn

02-19-2011, 01:50 PM

<cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote>It also dispels green potions which is completely stupid.</blockquote>That is 100% untrue.</blockquote>You are 100% wrong. I'll post proof later.</blockquote>They dispel green stat potions and totems, They are pretty low on the priority but still dispelable... I think in a match of 3 crusaders on Gears I went through over 20 STR potions in one match.

Striikor

02-19-2011, 02:04 PM

<cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>2) Peps are ticked that doom has a 5 min refresh.3) Peps are ticked that doom aoe dispells so they perfer a knight be able to pick and choose his victems instead of it being at random.What it appears to me is people are just wanting to see another class nerfed or are completely ignorant of the mechanics of the debuff in realizing how weak it really is.</blockquote>Really? Who is ignorant:(1297551721)[Sat Feb 12 17:02:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Nature Walk from Butcherblock.Icel.(1297551721)[Sat Feb 12 17:02:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Winds of Healing from Butcherblock.Icel.(1297551721)[Sat Feb 12 17:02:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Healstorm from YOU.(1297551721)[Sat Feb 12 17:02:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Ancestral Avatar from YOU.(1297551721)[Sat Feb 12 17:02:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Healstorm from Butcherblock.Assault.(1297551721)[Sat Feb 12 17:02:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Runic Armor from Butcherblock.Assault.(1297551790)[Sat Feb 12 17:03:10 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Transcendence from Butcherblock.Icel.(1297551790)[Sat Feb 12 17:03:10 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Winds of Healing from Butcherblock.Icel.(1297551790)[Sat Feb 12 17:03:10 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Umbral Warding from Butcherblock.Icel.(1297551790)[Sat Feb 12 17:03:10 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Runic Deflection from YOU.(1297551790)[Sat Feb 12 17:03:10 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Transcendence from YOU.(1297551790)[Sat Feb 12 17:03:10 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Umbral Warding from YOU.(1297551790)[Sat Feb 12 17:03:10 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Transcendence from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297551790)[Sat Feb 12 17:03:10 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Instinct from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297551790)[Sat Feb 12 17:03:10 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Hurricane from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Nature Walk from YOU.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Serene Knowledge from YOU.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Nature Walk from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Serene Knowledge from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Hurricane from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Nature Walk from Nagafen.Facetofist.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Serene Knowledge from Nagafen.Facetofist.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Nagafen.Facetofist.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Nature Walk from Butcherblock.Assault.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Healstorm from Butcherblock.Assault.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Nature Walk from Santafang.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Dark Pact from Santafang.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Santafang.(1297551967)[Sat Feb 12 17:06:07 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Umbral Warding from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297551967)[Sat Feb 12 17:06:07 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Dark Pact from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297551967)[Sat Feb 12 17:06:07 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Runic Armor from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297551967)[Sat Feb 12 17:06:07 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Umbral Warding from Santafang.(1297551967)[Sat Feb 12 17:06:07 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Runic Armor from Santafang.(1297551967)[Sat Feb 12 17:06:07 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Armor of Seasons from Santafang.(1297551967)[Sat Feb 12 17:06:07 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Spirit of the Mammoth from Santafang.(1297552029)[Sat Feb 12 17:07:09 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Runic Deflection from YOU.(1297552029)[Sat Feb 12 17:07:09 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Transcendence from YOU.(1297552029)[Sat Feb 12 17:07:09 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Umbral Warding from YOU.(1297552029)[Sat Feb 12 17:07:09 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Bolster from YOU.(1297552029)[Sat Feb 12 17:07:09 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Transcendence from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297552029)[Sat Feb 12 17:07:09 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Winds of Healing from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297552029)[Sat Feb 12 17:07:09 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Hurricane from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297552029)[Sat Feb 12 17:07:09 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Transcendence from Butcherblock.Assault.(1297552029)[Sat Feb 12 17:07:09 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Winds of Healing from Butcherblock.Assault.Does that look like a 5 minute recast to you?

Lalen

02-20-2011, 06:45 PM

<cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>2) Peps are ticked that doom has a 5 min refresh.3) Peps are ticked that doom aoe dispells so they perfer a knight be able to pick and choose his victems instead of it being at random.What it appears to me is people are just wanting to see another class nerfed or are completely ignorant of the mechanics of the debuff in realizing how weak it really is.</blockquote>Really? Who is ignorant:(1297551721)[Sat Feb 12 17:02:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Nature Walk from Butcherblock.Icel.(1297551721)[Sat Feb 12 17:02:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Winds of Healing from Butcherblock.Icel.(1297551721)[Sat Feb 12 17:02:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Healstorm from YOU.(1297551721)[Sat Feb 12 17:02:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Ancestral Avatar from YOU.(1297551721)[Sat Feb 12 17:02:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Healstorm from Butcherblock.Assault.(1297551721)[Sat Feb 12 17:02:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Runic Armor from Butcherblock.Assault.(1297551790)[Sat Feb 12 17:03:10 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Transcendence from Butcherblock.Icel.(1297551790)[Sat Feb 12 17:03:10 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Winds of Healing from Butcherblock.Icel.(1297551790)[Sat Feb 12 17:03:10 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Umbral Warding from Butcherblock.Icel.(1297551790)[Sat Feb 12 17:03:10 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Runic Deflection from YOU.(1297551790)[Sat Feb 12 17:03:10 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Transcendence from YOU.(1297551790)[Sat Feb 12 17:03:10 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Umbral Warding from YOU.(1297551790)[Sat Feb 12 17:03:10 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Transcendence from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297551790)[Sat Feb 12 17:03:10 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Instinct from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297551790)[Sat Feb 12 17:03:10 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Hurricane from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Nature Walk from YOU.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Serene Knowledge from YOU.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Nature Walk from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Serene Knowledge from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Hurricane from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Nature Walk from Nagafen.Facetofist.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Serene Knowledge from Nagafen.Facetofist.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Nagafen.Facetofist.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Nature Walk from Butcherblock.Assault.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Healstorm from Butcherblock.Assault.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Nature Walk from Santafang.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Dark Pact from Santafang.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Santafang.(1297551967)[Sat Feb 12 17:06:07 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Umbral Warding from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297551967)[Sat Feb 12 17:06:07 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Dark Pact from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297551967)[Sat Feb 12 17:06:07 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Runic Armor from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297551967)[Sat Feb 12 17:06:07 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Umbral Warding from Santafang.(1297551967)[Sat Feb 12 17:06:07 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Runic Armor from Santafang.(1297551967)[Sat Feb 12 17:06:07 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Armor of Seasons from Santafang.(1297551967)[Sat Feb 12 17:06:07 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Spirit of the Mammoth from Santafang.(1297552029)[Sat Feb 12 17:07:09 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Runic Deflection from YOU.(1297552029)[Sat Feb 12 17:07:09 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Transcendence from YOU.(1297552029)[Sat Feb 12 17:07:09 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Umbral Warding from YOU.(1297552029)[Sat Feb 12 17:07:09 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Bolster from YOU.(1297552029)[Sat Feb 12 17:07:09 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Transcendence from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297552029)[Sat Feb 12 17:07:09 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Winds of Healing from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297552029)[Sat Feb 12 17:07:09 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Hurricane from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297552029)[Sat Feb 12 17:07:09 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Transcendence from Butcherblock.Assault.(1297552029)[Sat Feb 12 17:07:09 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Winds of Healing from Butcherblock.Assault.Does that look like a 5 minute recast to you?</blockquote>Nope that was my misinformation there, I was confusing DJ with Castegate -- My bad... however it is a <a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Doom_Judgement" target="_blank">solid 2 min recast</a>.Which means you fudged your numbers: 17:05:01-17:06:07 is impossible without at least +100% ability recast modifiers which I don't believe is possible to achieve. Being your fight logs are indicitave of a lower level BG run I would say this would be far from possible, even improbable.Moreover you have not weighted anything against what I've said with the exception that the recast timer is still much longer than the normal AOE lines (2x as long) just not as long as LOH.<cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>1) Peps are ticked that doom can strip too many buffs - As it stands, it can only strip 3 level 90 buffs LIMITED to arcane buffs and noxus buffs. Once those three buffs are done, it cannot dispell anyone else in an AOE effect.</blockquote>So lets see these buffs of yours:<ul><li><a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Nature_Walk" target="_blank">Nature Walk</a> - Level 10</li><li><a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Winds_of_Healing" target="_blank">Winds of Healing</a> - Level 14</li><li><a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Healstorm" target="_blank">Healstorm</a> - Level 14</li><li><a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Ancestral_Avatar" target="_blank">Ancestral Avatar</a> - Level 47</li></ul>So there can be no arguement about the amount of times it debuffs being they were all incredibly low level spells that were debuffed.Do we make Doom Judgement a single-target capable of dispelling ALL buffs on that target that are Nox/Arc on the same timer as casters dispells or do we leave it alone and appologize for demanding a nerf?

Striikor

02-20-2011, 08:57 PM

I don't know quite how to put this ... yes I do .... you sir are an idiot ignorant!Edited it?You can look at your own logs and see it. So can anyone else dispite your ignorant protestations. This is from a T9 BG, you do know you have to be level 90 to get in those right?You sprout nonsense. I post REAL logs and you produce what? More blather, you are just not worth arguing with. Take a deep breath, and then go look at your own log files genius.Also LOL (Laugh Out Loud if you did not know)<ul><li><a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Nature_Walk" target="_blank">Nature Walk</a> - Warden AA requiring 18 points spent in movement. (It scales BTW)</li><li><a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Winds_of_Healing" target="_blank">Winds of Healing</a> - Level 90 </li><li><a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Healstorm" target="_blank">Healstorm</a> - Level 89 </li><li><a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Ancestral_Avatar" target="_blank">Ancestral Avatar</a> - Level 85</li></ul>psssst .... go ask your friends who know the game, if you got any.P.S. Stop by a BG and strip my buffs sometime. FangBear is my Mystic he plays T9 and I assure you all the buffs are T9 Masters

Striikor

02-20-2011, 09:16 PM

<cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Judgement a single-target capable of dispelling ALL buffs on that target that are Nox/Arc on the same timer as casters dispells or do we leave it alone and appologize for demanding a nerf?</blockquote>No what I want is it to stop stripping my 'until canceled' spells. It to powerful for a dispel to take out the 'until canceled' or the wards in BG. The rest should be fair game IMO and there are a crap load of those, as I carefully pointed out to you. Which in your furor you skipped over and/or chose to ignore.BTW if you are here long enough you would know that 'doctored' log files don't fly. You would have to be an idiot to do that and I am not and idiot (despite what some think<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )

Killque

02-20-2011, 10:29 PM

<cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>2) Peps are ticked that doom has a 5 min refresh.3) Peps are ticked that doom aoe dispells so they perfer a knight be able to pick and choose his victems instead of it being at random.What it appears to me is people are just wanting to see another class nerfed or are completely ignorant of the mechanics of the debuff in realizing how weak it really is.</blockquote>Really? Who is ignorant:(1297551721)[Sat Feb 12 17:02:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Nature Walk from Butcherblock.Icel.(1297551721)[Sat Feb 12 17:02:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Winds of Healing from Butcherblock.Icel.(1297551721)[Sat Feb 12 17:02:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Healstorm from YOU.(1297551721)[Sat Feb 12 17:02:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Ancestral Avatar from YOU.(1297551721)[Sat Feb 12 17:02:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Healstorm from Butcherblock.Assault.(1297551721)[Sat Feb 12 17:02:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Runic Armor from Butcherblock.Assault.(1297551790)[Sat Feb 12 17:03:10 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Transcendence from Butcherblock.Icel.(1297551790)[Sat Feb 12 17:03:10 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Winds of Healing from Butcherblock.Icel.(1297551790)[Sat Feb 12 17:03:10 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Umbral Warding from Butcherblock.Icel.(1297551790)[Sat Feb 12 17:03:10 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Runic Deflection from YOU.(1297551790)[Sat Feb 12 17:03:10 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Transcendence from YOU.(1297551790)[Sat Feb 12 17:03:10 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Umbral Warding from YOU.(1297551790)[Sat Feb 12 17:03:10 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Transcendence from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297551790)[Sat Feb 12 17:03:10 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Instinct from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297551790)[Sat Feb 12 17:03:10 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Hurricane from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Nature Walk from YOU.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Serene Knowledge from YOU.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Nature Walk from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Serene Knowledge from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Hurricane from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Nature Walk from Nagafen.Facetofist.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Serene Knowledge from Nagafen.Facetofist.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Nagafen.Facetofist.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Nature Walk from Butcherblock.Assault.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Healstorm from Butcherblock.Assault.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Nature Walk from Santafang.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Dark Pact from Santafang.(1297551901)[Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Santafang.(1297551967)[Sat Feb 12 17:06:07 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Umbral Warding from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297551967)[Sat Feb 12 17:06:07 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Dark Pact from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297551967)[Sat Feb 12 17:06:07 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Runic Armor from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297551967)[Sat Feb 12 17:06:07 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Umbral Warding from Santafang.(1297551967)[Sat Feb 12 17:06:07 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Runic Armor from Santafang.(1297551967)[Sat Feb 12 17:06:07 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Armor of Seasons from Santafang.(1297551967)[Sat Feb 12 17:06:07 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Spirit of the Mammoth from Santafang.(1297552029)[Sat Feb 12 17:07:09 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Runic Deflection from YOU.(1297552029)[Sat Feb 12 17:07:09 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Transcendence from YOU.(1297552029)[Sat Feb 12 17:07:09 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Umbral Warding from YOU.(1297552029)[Sat Feb 12 17:07:09 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Bolster from YOU.(1297552029)[Sat Feb 12 17:07:09 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Transcendence from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297552029)[Sat Feb 12 17:07:09 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Winds of Healing from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297552029)[Sat Feb 12 17:07:09 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Hurricane from The_Bazaar.Reklats.(1297552029)[Sat Feb 12 17:07:09 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Transcendence from Butcherblock.Assault.(1297552029)[Sat Feb 12 17:07:09 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Winds of Healing from Butcherblock.Assault.Does that look like a 5 minute recast to you?</blockquote>Nope that was my misinformation there, I was confusing DJ with Castegate -- My bad... however it is a <a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Doom_Judgement" target="_blank">solid 2 min recast</a>.Which means you fudged your numbers: 17:05:01-17:06:07 is impossible without at least +100% ability recast modifiers which I don't believe is possible to achieve. Being your fight logs are indicitave of a lower level BG run I would say this would be far from possible, even improbable.Moreover you have not weighted anything against what I've said with the exception that the recast timer is still much longer than the normal AOE lines (2x as long) just not as long as LOH.<cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>1) Peps are ticked that doom can strip too many buffs - As it stands, it can only strip 3 level 90 buffs LIMITED to arcane buffs and noxus buffs. Once those three buffs are done, it cannot dispell anyone else in an AOE effect.</blockquote>So lets see these buffs of yours:<ul><li><a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Nature_Walk" target="_blank">Nature Walk</a> - Level 10</li><li><a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Winds_of_Healing" target="_blank">Winds of Healing</a> - Level 14</li><li><a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Healstorm" target="_blank">Healstorm</a> - Level 14</li><li><a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Ancestral_Avatar" target="_blank">Ancestral Avatar</a> - Level 47</li></ul>So there can be no arguement about the amount of times it debuffs being they were all incredibly low level spells that were debuffed.Do we make Doom Judgement a single-target capable of dispelling ALL buffs on that target that are Nox/Arc on the same timer as casters dispells or do we leave it alone and appologize for demanding a nerf?</blockquote>I have not really been involved here, but I do know that some matches I dont even bother rebuffing. Keep in mind, this is 1 Crusaider. There are plenty of times when there are 2-6 of them all in one big fight. There is no immunity, there is no hope of keeping any buffs on what so ever. If you are a healer trying to heal in a big fight, you know you dont have time to throw buffs on. Maybe 1 if your lucky but it will last all of 10-30 seconds anyway so whats the point.I have a warden and I use Serene Symbol all the time. It is single target and the MOST I have ever seen it strip is 3. And that is rare. I mainly use it for OP Casters with their "I am unkillable" buffs, Manashield, Tanks and DA or similar etc. I dont just go spaming it without targeting something specific. Not to say Crusaiders dont use it wisely, but because it is AOE it makes it much more of a spray and pray button I am sure.So, to my anaylasys part.Previous cast: [Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011]This cast: [Sat Feb 12 17:06:07 2011]Reuse: 1:06(1297551967)[Sat Feb 12 17:06:07 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Umbral Warding from Santafang.(1297551967)[Sat Feb 12 17:06:07 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Runic Armor from Santafang.(1297551967)[Sat Feb 12 17:06:07 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Armor of Seasons from Santafang.(1297551967)[Sat Feb 12 17:06:07 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Spirit of the Mammoth from Santafang.Runic Armor - Casting Time 3 Seconds / Recast 2 SecondsArmor of Seasons - Casting Time 3 Seconds / Recast 2 SecondsSpirit of the Mammoth - Casting Time 3 Seconds / Recast 2 SecondsUmbral Warding - Casting Time 5 Seconds / Recast 15 SecondsSo here is how it goes assuming you do NOTHING in between, do not get stunned, Stifled, Knocked back etc. (also does not account casting increase etc)0:00 - Debuff Hits0:01 - Wait0:02 - Wait0:03 - Start Buffing0:04 - Begin casting Runic Armor0:05 - Casting of Runic Armor0:06 - Casting of Runic Armor0:07 - Begin casting Armor of Seasons0:08 - Casting Armor of Seasons0:09 - Casting Armor of Seasons0:10 - Begin casting Spirit of the Mammoth0:11 - Casting Spirit of the Mammoth0:12 - Casting Spirit of the Mammoth0:13 - Wait0:14 - Wait0:15 - Wait0:16 - Begin Casting Umbral Warding0:17 - Casting Umbral Warding0:18 - Casting Umbral Warding0:19 - Casting Umbral Warding0:20 - Casting Umbral WardingSkip Ahead - 46 Seconds1:07 - Debuff HitsGo To 0:01So. We all know the above is never the way it goes. No one has 20 seconds to sit and rebuff. This is also 1 Crusaider. Not several, which is more common than not.Puts it in prespective I think.

Notsovilepriest

02-21-2011, 01:45 AM

I <3 people who don't have any idea of mechanics crusading(pun intended) for a cause that they don't even understand.

Lalen

02-21-2011, 03:06 AM

<cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Judgement a single-target capable of dispelling ALL buffs on that target that are Nox/Arc on the same timer as casters dispells or do we leave it alone and appologize for demanding a nerf?</blockquote>No what I want is it to stop stripping my 'until canceled' spells. It to powerful for a dispel to take out the 'until canceled' or the wards in BG. The rest should be fair game IMO and there are a crap load of those, as I carefully pointed out to you. Which in your furor you skipped over and/or chose to ignore.BTW if you are here long enough you would know that 'doctored' log files don't fly. You would have to be an idiot to do that and I am not and idiot (despite what some think<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> )</blockquote>ANY debuff can also do this correct?BTW if you didn't doctor them you need to check the guy's gear. To my knowledge the reuse type mod 3 stats come few and far inbetween with knight armors -- which means someone wasn't being legit in that fight. [there are ZERO knight aa's that shorten the reuse of Doom Judgement nor are there any aa's that shorten reuse timers globally]<cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote>So, to my anaylasys part.Previous cast: [Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011]This cast: [Sat Feb 12 17:06:07 2011]Reuse: 1:06</blockquote>Your "analysis" is based on fudged and/or inaccurate information:<a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Doom_Judgement" target="_blank">PLEASE READ THIS LINK ABOUT DOOM JUDGEMENT</a><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I <3 people who don't have any idea of mechanics crusading(pun intended) for a cause that they don't even understand.</blockquote>LOL! I'm really waiting for SOE to say "Ok, We'll nerf it, here ya go knights, here is a single-taget version that strips ALL buffs!" Sweet karma is what that would be =P

Notsovilepriest

02-21-2011, 03:54 AM

<cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Judgement a single-target capable of dispelling ALL buffs on that target that are Nox/Arc on the same timer as casters dispells or do we leave it alone and appologize for demanding a nerf?</blockquote>No what I want is it to stop stripping my 'until canceled' spells. It to powerful for a dispel to take out the 'until canceled' or the wards in BG. The rest should be fair game IMO and there are a crap load of those, as I carefully pointed out to you. Which in your furor you skipped over and/or chose to ignore.BTW if you are here long enough you would know that 'doctored' log files don't fly. You would have to be an idiot to do that and I am not and idiot (despite what some think<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> )</blockquote>ANY debuff can also do this correct?BTW if you didn't doctor them you need to check the guy's gear. To my knowledge the reuse type mod 3 stats come few and far inbetween with knight armors -- which means someone wasn't being legit in that fight. [there are ZERO knight aa's that shorten the reuse of Doom Judgement nor are there any aa's that shorten reuse timers globally]Incorrect, STR line endline decreases reuse globally, as well as SK tree having DJ reuse on it, so wrong. As well as the fact SKs give another 10% reuse to the group on top of that too. Pallys can also get reuse buffs from others this game doesn't revolve around being solo.<cite>Killque wrote:</cite><blockquote>So, to my anaylasys part.Previous cast: [Sat Feb 12 17:05:01 2011]This cast: [Sat Feb 12 17:06:07 2011]Reuse: 1:06</blockquote>Your "analysis" is based on fudged and/or inaccurate information:<a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Doom_Judgement" target="_blank">PLEASE READ THIS LINK ABOUT DOOM JUDGEMENT</a>Again, you are the misinformed one. This link proves absolutely nothing at all.<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I <3 people who don't have any idea of mechanics crusading(pun intended) for a cause that they don't even understand.</blockquote>LOL! I'm really waiting for SOE to say "Ok, We'll nerf it, here ya go knights, here is a single-taget version that strips ALL buffs!" Sweet karma is what that would be =PThey won't do that because the debuff portion is only marginally useful in PvE, and by the fact PvP/BGs aren't that important to SoE, proved by 0 content or balance for it going into DoV, they wouldn't give them a ST version of it, it would far more likely be turned into a slightly harder hitting AE without the debuff if anything.</blockquote>

Lalen

02-21-2011, 04:15 AM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote>Incorrect, STR line endline decreases reuse globally, as well as SK tree having DJ reuse on it, so wrong. As well as the fact SKs give another 10% reuse to the group on top of that too. Pallys can also get reuse buffs from others this game doesn't revolve around being solo.</blockquote></blockquote>My bad, so +10%? how does this account for what obviously is +90% gear? The only reuse buff I've seen so far, even at level 90 only increases the reuse timers by about 2-4%. Again assuming the best possible group setup their times are still implying that the knight had +85%(+) reuse mod3 stats which isn't possible under level 80 and highly improbable at level 90. Now for Paladins, the Paladin tab has Doom Judgement, however it only adds damage to the ability, nothing more. I also believe the person posting those logs, was posting it from a paladin which makes absolutely zero sense. If it was a SK and they get the ability to make that reuse lower? Yeah sure, do your screaming just make sure you're not including paladins in this nerf crusade.<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote>Again, you are the misinformed one. This link proves absolutely nothing at all.</blockquote></blockquote>It proves a LOT. The deduff is limited by the level counters (its not a hard-core 8 people) meaning either people have crappy buffs running or something is bugged if they're getting most of their level 81-90 buffs stripped.<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote>They won't do that because the debuff portion is only marginally useful in PvE, and by the fact PvP/BGs aren't that important to SoE, proved by 0 content or balance for it going into DoV, they wouldn't give them a ST version of it, it would far more likely be turned into a slightly harder hitting AE without the debuff if anything.</blockquote></blockquote>I doubt they'd remove the debuff completely from knights as its "hard-coded" in the lore that they are able to strip people of their magical effects - Just like Lay on Hands and Harm Touch are all hard-coded in that lore as well. They really can't have a knight class without giving them that ability to strip buffs (knights use to get some sword from the Kunark quest line in EQ1 that would debuff their targets -- I use to use that a lot in PVP even at level 85 lol but they also get a ST debuff in EQ1 at level 12, the only other class there that got a buff lower than that was an enchanter).

Striikor

02-21-2011, 11:39 AM

My god! Please get your facts straight. I AM showing you real logs. If it were working as YOU indicate it would not be such a problem but it IS not. If it removed buffs as you so mistakenly stated:<cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>So lets recap on the logic being put into this thread:1) Peps are ticked that doom can strip too many buffs - As it stands, it can only strip 3 level 90 buffs LIMITED to arcane buffs and noxus buffs. Once those three buffs are done, it cannot dispell anyone else in an AOE effect.</blockquote>I would not think it was so OP. My understanding (which is so far much better than yours) is that it has a limit of 8 targets. So dispelling 286 levels of arcane and noxious based spells on up to 8 AoE targets (indicated by every log I look at).<img src="http://1pkyag.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pmAueK0vWkuxlaS3vKVXFgZAaVcz8B5iJ6g2ImuyflMmeLyv A9mYwTnYwz7p5RZB93IWwnsoVm-Lj2J2nRBbSHbn-MDpTBNrF/Doom%20Judgment%20IV%20(PvE).jpg?psid=1" width="318" height="416" /><img src="http://1pkyag.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pmAueK0vWkuyTqbpTbTyMzTOLJv2QwDl3pbPRv3mZ7rO0JjV qqgm6p016utoZ0dWbOMdEINDnIDjN1JxmXIU7xwu0VSmpEKh4/Doom%20Judgment%20IV%20(PvP).jpg?psid=1" width="316" height="422" />So yes it is up to 3 level 90 buffs on up to 8 targets! And even that is somehow being breached as the 4 log lines below indicate!(1297552029)[Sat Feb 12 17:07:09 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Runic Deflection from YOU.(1297552029)[Sat Feb 12 17:07:09 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Transcendence from YOU.(1297552029)[Sat Feb 12 17:07:09 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Umbral Warding from YOU.(1297552029)[Sat Feb 12 17:07:09 2011] Butcherblock.Morgian's Doom Judgement dispels Bolster from YOU.In BG my Umbral Ward (primary heal) is about 11,000- 15,000. A Wizard's Blast of Devastation hits for roughly ~11,000 in BG. I have seen one Doom Judgement strip Umbral Ward off of every group member. That is equal to a LOT of damage in 1 spell every 2 minutes (with out readily accessible recast buffs as you can see it is actually significantly less than that).But it does not stop there. It also removes my other single target ward Ancestral Ward in the same cast, Ancestral Ward is ~8000 AND my mitgation Buffs along with an indiscriminant slew of others! And it is not just doing it to me it is doing it on virtually every member of the group surrounding the crusader!So yes it should be changed! You can read it as nerf'd, I think of it as corrected. Leave it as it is EXCEPT make it so it does NOT affect 'until canceled' buffs and it should not remove wards from the healers whose primary heals depend on them.

AziBam

02-21-2011, 12:26 PM

I just took a peek at my 90 SK. Recast standing solo is 1min 1 second. His gear is pretty craptacular too so not getting too much help there. I also looked at my kids 39 SK. Recast standing solo is 1 min 10 seconds. This ability is clearly OP in PVP. "Why do they have it" arguments are silly though. It was given to crusaders before PVP even existed in this game. Its use in PVE is basically just another weakish blue AE. We just need to figure out how to bring it inline for PVP.Making it so this debuff (or others) didn't take any that are "until cancelled" would completely defeat the point of using them. I use Doom Judgment, absorb magic, serene symbol, the swash taunt, etc. specifically INTENDING to remove the permanent buffs. Ie. Magi's Shielding. What makes it OP is the absolute blizzard of "dispelled" messages I see float up when it gets used in a mass of bodies. It should have a reduced number of dispels per target (1-2?), or a reduced number of targets that the dispel portion functions on.

Rahatmattata

02-21-2011, 02:24 PM

In PvP, Doom Judgement should do pbaoe damage and dispel buffs from his target only, or the recast should be significantly increased, or it should only dispel 1 nox/arcane buff per player.

Notsovilepriest

02-21-2011, 02:41 PM

<cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote>Incorrect, STR line endline decreases reuse globally, as well as SK tree having DJ reuse on it, so wrong. As well as the fact SKs give another 10% reuse to the group on top of that too. Pallys can also get reuse buffs from others this game doesn't revolve around being solo.</blockquote></blockquote>My bad, so +10%? how does this account for what obviously is +90% gear? The only reuse buff I've seen so far, even at level 90 only increases the reuse timers by about 2-4%. Again assuming the best possible group setup their times are still implying that the knight had +85%(+) reuse mod3 stats which isn't possible under level 80 and highly improbable at level 90. Now for Paladins, the Paladin tab has Doom Judgement, however it only adds damage to the ability, nothing more. I also believe the person posting those logs, was posting it from a paladin which makes absolutely zero sense. If it was a SK and they get the ability to make that reuse lower? Yeah sure, do your screaming just make sure you're not including paladins in this nerf crusade.<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote>Again, you are the misinformed one. This link proves absolutely nothing at all.</blockquote></blockquote>It proves a LOT. The deduff is limited by the level counters (its not a hard-core 8 people) meaning either people have crappy buffs running or something is bugged if they're getting most of their level 81-90 buffs stripped.<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote>They won't do that because the debuff portion is only marginally useful in PvE, and by the fact PvP/BGs aren't that important to SoE, proved by 0 content or balance for it going into DoV, they wouldn't give them a ST version of it, it would far more likely be turned into a slightly harder hitting AE without the debuff if anything.</blockquote></blockquote>I doubt they'd remove the debuff completely from knights as its "hard-coded" in the lore that they are able to strip people of their magical effects - Just like Lay on Hands and Harm Touch are all hard-coded in that lore as well. They really can't have a knight class without giving them that ability to strip buffs (knights use to get some sword from the Kunark quest line in EQ1 that would debuff their targets -- I use to use that a lot in PVP even at level 85 lol but they also get a ST debuff in EQ1 at level 12, the only other class there that got a buff lower than that was an enchanter).</blockquote>Lore arguements are the best on a PvP based subject. Lore went out the window and was re-written a long time ago for PvP servers to allow Necros be in Qeynos and such. They will bend it in the name of balance. That is the wonder of lore, it's in imaginary story that they can imagine whatever they want and say it's true. They isn't EQ1 so stop trying to equivicate anything in here to it, they are different games in many many different fashions and if you desire the vintage Eq1 then go play the new Fippy Darkpaw server there or something. Honestly you have almost no understanding of the mechanics of stuff but argue the points as if you do. I've been on PvP since 2006 and the game in general since very early 2005. I tend to know what I'm talking about with mechanics related to PvP and different classes. I've also myself had a Pally on PvP since KoS(when they were "UP") and I will admit that my Doom Judgement has been dumb ever since they gave the upgraded versions of the bloodline skills because it removes far too much. Before when it only was level 35 and no upgrades it wasn't bad.

Striikor

02-21-2011, 06:40 PM

<cite>Azian@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>I just took a peek at my 90 SK. Recast standing solo is 1min 1 second. His gear is pretty craptacular too so not getting too much help there. I also looked at my kids 39 SK. Recast standing solo is 1 min 10 seconds. This ability is clearly OP in PVP. "Why do they have it" arguments are silly though. It was given to crusaders before PVP even existed in this game. Its use in PVE is basically just another weakish blue AE. We just need to figure out how to bring it inline for PVP.Making it so this debuff (or others) didn't take any that are "until cancelled" would completely defeat the point of using them. I use Doom Judgment, absorb magic, serene symbol, the swash taunt, etc. specifically INTENDING to remove the permanent buffs. Ie. Magi's Shielding. What makes it OP is the absolute blizzard of "dispelled" messages I see float up when it gets used in a mass of bodies. It should have a reduced number of dispels per target (1-2?), or a reduced number of targets that the dispel portion functions on. </blockquote>I disagree. The dispel is permanent, debuffs have a timer. I would have no issue on it if it were dispelled for a period of time or only worked on temporary buffs. It should in no case dispel wards. As a mystic I have one fairly slow casting group heal (1.5 seconds on a 12 second recast) and one end line AA that is a fast casting group heal, but it is on a long timer (2 minutes and 15 seconds). That a crusader or really anyone can dispell and totally remove my primary heals once cast is OP. It is enough with the interrupts stuns, knockback and mez's chaining together. The following are temporary buffs just off of a Mystic that it would make sense to dispell and they are ones that produce a lot of heals and utility:<ul><li>Bolster </li><li>Stampede </li><li>Ritual of Alacrity </li><li>Ancestral Sentry </li><li>Impenetrable Will </li><li>Leg Bite </li><li>Immunity </li><li>Ancestral Balm </li><li>Spirit Tap </li><li>Premonition </li><li>Ancestral Avatar </li><li>Ancestry</li></ul>Wards and 'untill canceled' should not be able to be dispelled (in BG). I can see being able to dispell or cancel an 'until canceled' for a period of time but not permanently. I can't see the ability to dispell wards. That would be the same as allowing to to block heals from happening at all in addition to stuns, knockback, stifles and mezzes.

AziBam

02-21-2011, 07:14 PM

<cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote>In PvP, Doom Judgement should do pbaoe damage and dispel buffs from his target only, or the recast should be significantly increased, or it should only dispel 1 nox/arcane buff per player.</blockquote>I think that would be perfect.<cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Azian@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>I just took a peek at my 90 SK. Recast standing solo is 1min 1 second. His gear is pretty craptacular too so not getting too much help there. I also looked at my kids 39 SK. Recast standing solo is 1 min 10 seconds. This ability is clearly OP in PVP. "Why do they have it" arguments are silly though. It was given to crusaders before PVP even existed in this game. Its use in PVE is basically just another weakish blue AE. We just need to figure out how to bring it inline for PVP.Making it so this debuff (or others) didn't take any that are "until cancelled" would completely defeat the point of using them. I use Doom Judgment, absorb magic, serene symbol, the swash taunt, etc. specifically INTENDING to remove the permanent buffs. Ie. Magi's Shielding. What makes it OP is the absolute blizzard of "dispelled" messages I see float up when it gets used in a mass of bodies. It should have a reduced number of dispels per target (1-2?), or a reduced number of targets that the dispel portion functions on. </blockquote>I disagree. The dispel is permanent, debuffs have a timer. I would have no issue on it if it were dispelled for a period of time or only worked on temporary buffs. It should in no case dispel wards. As a mystic I have one fairly slow casting group heal (1.5 seconds on a 12 second recast) and one end line AA that is a fast casting group heal, but it is on a long timer (2 minutes and 15 seconds). That a crusader or really anyone can dispell and totally remove my primary heals once cast is OP. It is enough with the interrupts stuns, knockback and mez's chaining together. The following are temporary buffs just off of a Mystic that it would make sense to dispell and they are ones that produce a lot of heals and utility:<ul><li>Bolster </li><li>Stampede </li><li>Ritual of Alacrity </li><li>Ancestral Sentry </li><li>Impenetrable Will </li><li>Leg Bite </li><li>Immunity </li><li>Ancestral Balm </li><li>Spirit Tap </li><li>Premonition </li><li>Ancestral Avatar </li><li>Ancestry</li></ul>Wards and 'untill canceled' should not be able to be dispelled (in BG). I can see being able to dispell or cancel an 'until canceled' for a period of time but not permanently. I can't see the ability to dispell wards. That would be the same as allowing to to block heals from happening at all in addition to stuns, knockback, stifles and mezzes.</blockquote>We'll have to agree to disagree on that issue. I think making group heals/wards (I assume reactives and HoTs get stripped too) immune to a debuff of this nature would be good. Other than that though, I get much more annoyed by having a totem or potion effect removed than having one of my group buffs get stripped. If anything else were to be given immunity, I'd rather it be those "used a charge" type of items. I think the rest should be fair game.

Lalen

02-21-2011, 08:17 PM

<cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote>So yes it is up to 3 level 90 buffs on up to 8 targets! And even that is somehow being breached as the 4 log lines below indicate!</blockquote>I hate to say it, either they have Paladins severely scaled back or, well I think you may know whats going on if stuff is getting "breeched". I've checked my own logs, well you know how people "gather" in gears, so I run up in the middle of them and DOOM... Logs show 5 dispells (2 of which were crap buffs) from 2 people. 3 on one, 2 on the other. Everyone else got the damage component, but no dispell. It is possible they weren't buffed I would assume however I find that highly unlikely being the only knight in that BG. I think what you need to be asking is for the devs/admins to keep an eye out in the BG's. I know there is an aweful lot of hacking going on in those (As I've been one-shot for approx 182,000 damage a few times and permenantly kept dead at respawn area before the gates opened). These factors must not be attributed to a decision as haneous as nerfing a class. Making other classes a bit stronger, sure, but all out calling for a nerf is definately disrespectful to those hom call that class their main especailly if you've only given it halfarsed (and one-sided) consideration. Lastly, the refresh timer on my Doom Judgement IV (Expert) with "ok" gear (some vender PVP gear and some master crafted pvp gear) with max doom aa's is 1m 52s. Usually I only get to cast doom judgement maybe 7 times in gears and even more rare do I cast it in the other 2 bg's.

Notsovilepriest

02-21-2011, 08:38 PM

[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Tribal Spirit from Smashnutzx.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Dark Pact from Smashnutzx.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Smashnutzx.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Unholy Strength from Smashnutzx.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Shroud of Armor from Smashnutzx.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Vehemence from Smashnutzx.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Abominus from Smashnutzx.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement hits Aaryana but fails to inflict any damage.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Ward of Sages from Aaryana.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Magi's Shielding from Aaryana.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels See Invisibility from Aaryana.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Tribal Spirit from Aaryana.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Aaryana.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Unholy Strength from Aaryana.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement hits Wowzeer but fails to inflict any damage.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Runic Deflection from Wowzeer.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Coagulate from Wowzeer.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Tribal Spirit from Wowzeer.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Shroud of Armor from Wowzeer.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Crystallize Soul from Wowzeer.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement hits Ouch but fails to inflict any damage.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Tribal Spirit from Ouch.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Vehemence from Ouch.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Noxious Efflux from Ouch.Just 1 cast....This is only hitting 3 people[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement hits Crushbone.Serpen but fails to inflict any damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Nature Walk from Crushbone.Serpen.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Nullmail from Crushbone.Serpen.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Crushbone.Serpen.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Unholy Strength from Crushbone.Serpen.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Bloodletter from Crushbone.Serpen.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Nereid's Boon from Crushbone.Serpen.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Spirit of the Wolf from Crushbone.Serpen.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Instinct from Nagafen.Choqes.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Dark Pact from Nagafen.Choqes.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement relieves Dark Siphoning from Nagafen.Choqes.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Nagafen.Choqes.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Nagafen.Choqes.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Nereid's Boon from Nagafen.Choqes.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Spirit of the Wolf from Nagafen.Choqes.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement critically hits Everfrost.Pemberton for 383 slashing damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Manaweave from Everfrost.Pemberton.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Nature Walk from Everfrost.Pemberton.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement relieves Dark Siphoning from Everfrost.Pemberton.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Everfrost.Pemberton.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Everfrost.Pemberton.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Nereid's Boon from Everfrost.Pemberton.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Spirit of the Wolf from Everfrost.Pemberton.

Lalen

02-21-2011, 11:35 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Tribal Spirit from Smashnutzx.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Dark Pact from Smashnutzx.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Smashnutzx.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Unholy Strength from Smashnutzx.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Shroud of Armor from Smashnutzx.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Vehemence from Smashnutzx.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Abominus from Smashnutzx.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement hits Aaryana but fails to inflict any damage.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Ward of Sages from Aaryana.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Magi's Shielding from Aaryana.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels See Invisibility from Aaryana.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Tribal Spirit from Aaryana.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Aaryana.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Unholy Strength from Aaryana.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement hits Wowzeer but fails to inflict any damage.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Runic Deflection from Wowzeer.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Coagulate from Wowzeer.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Tribal Spirit from Wowzeer.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Shroud of Armor from Wowzeer.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Crystallize Soul from Wowzeer.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement hits Ouch but fails to inflict any damage.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Tribal Spirit from Ouch.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Vehemence from Ouch.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Noxious Efflux from Ouch.Just 1 cast....This is only hitting 3 people[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement hits Crushbone.Serpen but fails to inflict any damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Nature Walk from Crushbone.Serpen.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Nullmail from Crushbone.Serpen.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Crushbone.Serpen.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Unholy Strength from Crushbone.Serpen.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Bloodletter from Crushbone.Serpen.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Nereid's Boon from Crushbone.Serpen.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Spirit of the Wolf from Crushbone.Serpen.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Instinct from Nagafen.Choqes.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Dark Pact from Nagafen.Choqes.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement relieves Dark Siphoning from Nagafen.Choqes.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Nagafen.Choqes.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Nagafen.Choqes.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Nereid's Boon from Nagafen.Choqes.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Spirit of the Wolf from Nagafen.Choqes.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement critically hits Everfrost.Pemberton for 383 slashing damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Manaweave from Everfrost.Pemberton.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Nature Walk from Everfrost.Pemberton.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement relieves Dark Siphoning from Everfrost.Pemberton.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Everfrost.Pemberton.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Everfrost.Pemberton.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Nereid's Boon from Everfrost.Pemberton.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Spirit of the Wolf from Everfrost.Pemberton.</blockquote>These are also very low level buffs this was dispelling there. Doom Judgement is a rather high level spell when you first get it so the fact it was removing so many buffs at that level doesn't surprise me.More in detail however, here is how you can tell when someone fudges logs or someone is using programs they shouldn't be:[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Everfrost.Pemberton.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Everfrost.Pemberton.Say what you will, but it does not dispell the same buff twice for a single person.

Notsovilepriest

02-22-2011, 12:35 AM

<cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Tribal Spirit from Smashnutzx. Defiler Myth Proc[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Dark Pact from Smashnutzx. 80+[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Smashnutzx.80+[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Unholy Strength from Smashnutzx.80+[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Shroud of Armor from Smashnutzx.80+[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Vehemence from Smashnutzx.80+[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Abominus from Smashnutzx.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement hits Aaryana but fails to inflict any damage.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Ward of Sages from Aaryana.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Magi's Shielding from Aaryana.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels See Invisibility from Aaryana.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Tribal Spirit from Aaryana.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Aaryana.80+[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Unholy Strength from Aaryana.80+[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement hits Wowzeer but fails to inflict any damage.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Runic Deflection from Wowzeer.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Coagulate from Wowzeer.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Tribal Spirit from Wowzeer.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Shroud of Armor from Wowzeer.80+[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Crystallize Soul from Wowzeer.80+[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement hits Ouch but fails to inflict any damage.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Tribal Spirit from Ouch.[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Vehemence from Ouch.80+[Fri Nov 19 19:47:14 2010] YOUR Doom Judgement dispels Noxious Efflux from Ouch.80+Just 1 cast....This is only hitting 3 people[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement hits Crushbone.Serpen but fails to inflict any damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Nature Walk from Crushbone.Serpen.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Nullmail from Crushbone.Serpen.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Crushbone.Serpen.80+[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Unholy Strength from Crushbone.Serpen.80+[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Bloodletter from Crushbone.Serpen.80+[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Nereid's Boon from Crushbone.Serpen.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Spirit of the Wolf from Crushbone.Serpen.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Instinct from Nagafen.Choqes.80+[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Dark Pact from Nagafen.Choqes.80+[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement relieves Dark Siphoning from Nagafen.Choqes.80+[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Nagafen.Choqes.80+[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Nagafen.Choqes.80+[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Nereid's Boon from Nagafen.Choqes.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Spirit of the Wolf from Nagafen.Choqes.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement critically hits Everfrost.Pemberton for 383 slashing damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Manaweave from Everfrost.Pemberton.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Nature Walk from Everfrost.Pemberton.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement relieves Dark Siphoning from Everfrost.Pemberton.80+[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Everfrost.Pemberton.80+[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Everfrost.Pemberton.80+[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Nereid's Boon from Everfrost.Pemberton.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Spirit of the Wolf from Everfrost.Pemberton.</blockquote>These are also very low level buffs this was dispelling there. Doom Judgement is a rather high level spell when you first get it so the fact it was removing so many buffs at that level doesn't surprise me.More in detail however, here is how you can tell when someone fudges logs or someone is using programs they shouldn't be:[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Everfrost.eberton[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Everfrost.Pemberton.Say what you will, but it does not dispell the same buff twice for a single person.</blockquote>Why for 2, You missed one, it also fed 2 lines for Choqes too. I have no need to edit logs to feel better out stuff since I know I am 100% correct and providing exact logs from my files, here is even without filtering out just DJ stuff.:[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqes' Berserk regenerates 414 points of absorption.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqes' Berserk absorbs 38 points of damage from being done to Nagafen.Choqe.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqe is hit by Acid Burn for 0 poison damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Crushbone.Serpen's Magi's Shielding absorbs 79 points of damage from being done to Crushbone.Serpen.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Crushbone.Serpen is hit by Acid Burn for 0 poison damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Crushbone.Serpen's Nihilistics critically hits Crushbone.Anthraxist for 66 poison damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Crushbone.Anthraxist is struck by nihilism![Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Crushbone.Serpen's Nihilistics critically hits Unrest.Nuuar for 157 poison damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Unrest.Nuuar is struck by nihilism![Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Crushbone.Serpen's Nihilistics critically hits Guk.Muscle for 152 poison damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle is struck by nihilism![Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqes' Stonewill absorbs 84 points of damage from being done to Nagafen.Choqes.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqes is hit by Acid Burn for 0 poison damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Everfrost.Pemberton is hit by Acid Burn for 122 poison damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqes' Berserk absorbs 49 points of damage from being done to Nagafen.Choqe.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqe is hit by Acid Burn for 0 poison damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Crushbone.Anthraxist's Acid Storm Cell tries to poison Crushbone.Serpen with Acid Burn, but Crushbone.Serpen resists.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqes' Stonewill absorbs 175 points of damage from being done to Nagafen.Choqes.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqes is hit by Acid Burn for 0 poison damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Everfrost.Pemberton is hit by Acid Burn for 125 poison damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Crushbone.Serpen's Magi's Shielding absorbs 378 points of damage from being done to Crushbone.Serpen.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqe's Skin Like Wood absorbs 92 points of damage from being done to Crushbone.Serpen.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement hits Crushbone.Serpen but fails to inflict any damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Crushbone.Serpen tries to burn Crushbone.Anthraxist with Dust Storm, but Crushbone.Anthraxist resists.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] YOUR Runic Armor absorbs 106 points of damage from being done to Guk.Muscle.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Crushbone.Serpen's Protective Thorns critically hits Guk.Muscle but fails to inflict any damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Nature Walk from Crushbone.Serpen.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Nullmail from Crushbone.Serpen.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Crushbone.Serpen.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Unholy Strength from Crushbone.Serpen.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Bloodletter from Crushbone.Serpen.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Nereid's Boon from Crushbone.Serpen.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Spirit of the Wolf from Crushbone.Serpen.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] The spirit of the wolf leaves Crushbone.Serpen.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqes' Stonewill absorbs 212 points of damage from being done to Nagafen.Choqes.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqes' Barrier absorbs 9 points of damage from being done to Nagafen.Choqes.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement hits Nagafen.Choqes but fails to inflict any damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqes is affected by spores.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] YOUR Runic Armor absorbs 93 points of damage from being done to Guk.Muscle.(1297566297)[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqes' Provoking Counterattack critically hits Guk.Muscle but fails to inflict any damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] YOUR Runic Armor absorbs 24 points of damage from being done to Guk.Muscle.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqes' Thorns critically hits Guk.Muscle but fails to inflict any damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle takes reprisal damage![Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Instinct from Nagafen.Choqes.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Dark Pact from Nagafen.Choqes.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement relieves Dark Siphoning from Nagafen.Choqes.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqes no longer looks drained.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Nagafen.Choqes.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Nagafen.Choqes.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Nereid's Boon from Nagafen.Choqes.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Spirit of the Wolf from Nagafen.Choqes.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] The spirit of the wolf leaves Nagafen.Choqes.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement critically hits Everfrost.Pemberton for 383 slashing damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Fatal Lifetap hits Everfrost.Pemberton for 254 poison damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Fatal Lifetap heals Guk.Muscle for 963 hit points.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Everfrost.Pemberton has had their life drained![Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Everfrost.Pemberton's Nature's Feedback hits Guk.Muscle for 3 poison damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Manaweave from Everfrost.Pemberton.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Nature Walk from Everfrost.Pemberton.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement relieves Dark Siphoning from Everfrost.Pemberton.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Everfrost.Pemberton no longer looks drained.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Everfrost.Pemberton.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Everfrost.Pemberton.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Nereid's Boon from Everfrost.Pemberton.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Spirit of the Wolf from Everfrost.Pemberton.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] The spirit of the wolf leaves Everfrost.Pemberton.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqes tries to slash Unrest.Nuuar, but their aoe attack misses.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqes critically aoe attacks YOU for 683 slashing damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] YOUR Runic Armor absorbs 149 points of damage from being done to Guk.Muscle.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqes critically hits Guk.Muscle but fails to inflict any damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqes' Unholy Strike critically hits Guk.Muscle for 326 disease damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle is struck with an unholy weapon![Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqes is struck with an unholy weapon![Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqes' Barrier absorbs 25 points of damage from being done to Nagafen.Choqes.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Caress Feedback critically hits Nagafen.Choqes but fails to inflict any damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqes writhes in agony.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqes tries to slash Guk.Muscle, but their multi attack misses.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Unrest.Nuuar tries to crush Nagafen.Choqes, but misses.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Unrest.Nuuar tries to crush Nagafen.Choqes, but Nagafen.Choqes parries the multi attack.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqes' Barrier absorbs 71 points of damage from being done to Nagafen.Choqes.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Unrest.Nuuar critically hits Nagafen.Choqes but fails to inflict any damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqes is affected by spores.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqes' Thorns critically hits Unrest.Nuuar for 38 piercing damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Unrest.Nuuar takes reprisal damage![Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqes' Barrier absorbs 41 points of damage from being done to Nagafen.Choqes.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Unrest.Nuuar multi attacks Nagafen.Choqes but fails to inflict any damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqes' Undeniable Malice hits Unrest.Nuuar for 208 mental damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqes' Thorns critically hits Unrest.Nuuar for 38 piercing damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Unrest.Nuuar takes reprisal damage![Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] YOUR Runic Armor absorbs 65 points of damage from being done to Guk.Muscle.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqes' Mutilate critically hits Guk.Muscle but fails to inflict any damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] You prepare the ancient Umbral Warding.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] You shelter Nagafen.Notsovilepriest from harm![Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] You are sheltered from harm.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Notsovilepriest envelops your group with a protective umbral ward![Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] You prepare the ancient Umbral Warding.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] You shelter Antonia_Bayle.Tiffeny from harm![Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Antonia_Bayle.Tiffeny's group is enveloped by a protective umbral ward![Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] You prepare the ancient Umbral Warding.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Crushbone.Anthraxist's group is enveloped by a protective umbral ward![Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] You prepare the ancient Umbral Warding.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] YOUR Purifying Presence relieves Cripple from Unrest.Nuuar.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] YOUR Purifying Presence relieves Provoking Counterattack from Unrest.Nuuar.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] A purifying persistence enables you to cleanse the group![Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Unrest.Nuuar's group is enveloped by a protective umbral ward![Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] You prepare the ancient Umbral Warding.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] A purifying persistence enables you to cleanse the group![Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] You shelter Notsovilepriest from harm![Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Notsovilepriest's group is enveloped by a protective umbral ward![Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] You prepare the ancient Umbral Warding.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's group is enveloped by a protective umbral ward![Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Notsovilepriest floods Nagafen.Notsovilepriest with healing energy![Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] YOUR Overloaded Heal heals YOU for 379 hit points.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Notsovilepriest floods Antonia_Bayle.Tiffeny with healing energy![Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] YOUR Overloaded Heal heals Antonia_Bayle.Tiffeny for 379 hit points.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Notsovilepriest floods Crushbone.Anthraxist with healing energy![Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] YOUR Overloaded Heal heals Crushbone.Anthraxist for 379 hit points.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Notsovilepriest floods Unrest.Nuuar with healing energy![Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] YOUR Overloaded Heal heals Unrest.Nuuar for 379 hit points.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Notsovilepriest floods Notsovilepriest with healing energy![Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Notsovilepriest floods Guk.Muscle with healing energy![Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] YOUR Overloaded Heal heals Guk.Muscle for 379 hit points.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Everfrost.Eveningdress begins an ancient spell of suffocation.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Crushbone.Anthraxist's Magi's Shielding regenerates 393 points of absorption.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] YOUR Runic Armor absorbs 95 points of damage from being done to Guk.Muscle.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Everfrost.Pemberton's Sever critically hits Guk.Muscle but fails to inflict any damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] YOUR Runic Armor absorbs 615 points of damage from being done to Notsovilepriest.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqes' Primal Instincts critically hits Notsovilepriest but fails to inflict any damage.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Nagafen.Choqes' Berserk absorbs 217 points of damage from being done to Nagafen.Choqe.

Striikor

02-22-2011, 01:12 AM

<cite><cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>LOTS of log entries from Notsoevilpriest</blockquote>These are also very low level buffs this was dispelling there. Doom Judgement is a rather high level spell when you first get it so the fact it was removing so many buffs at that level doesn't surprise me.More in detail however, here is how you can tell when someone fudges logs or someone is using programs they shouldn't be:[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Everfrost.Pemberton.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Everfrost.Pemberton.Say what you will, but it does not dispell the same buff twice for a single person.</blockquote>Lalen you seem like a nice person, you are taking time to read (thanks). But not enough time, evidently to comprehend.These are T9 BG's. You said the same thing about my low level buffs. What we have listed are T9 and in my case MASTERED T9 Buffs. I know Notsoeveilpriest's are T9 also (I suspect mastered also). I have told you that several times in this thread. Yet you continue to seemingly ignore it.What in the world do you mean by low level spells?Why do you keep glossing over proof with inane statements like 'fudges logs'. I know how to read logs and have since 01/2005 so has Notsoevilpriest. What we are showing you are RAW logs not parsed out in ACT or some parsing program.In reality if you are not seeing the same results you may be significantly less in stats than the crusader's we run against or simply undergeared or not using T9 master's. It is not our problem that you don't do as well as the crusader's we are showing via logs.What we do show you are real life logs on what Doom Judgement is doing. His do look a little funy in that he has both the Crusader view in one half and the crusader victim in the other half (I assume he was dual boxing or has a Crusader alt) I was actually not going to get involved orginally until your errant post (which I could not let go).It is possible it is not performing as intended in BG's. As demonstrated, that is how it IS performing. Any well geared Crusader is capable of this in BG's. I have seem no indication that it is cheating of anysort. It is too consistent, from too many players, many of whom I know fairly well. Some of whom I have played with and around for years. And more than a few who I consider friends. Bugged, not working as intended yes. Cheating, no way.</cite>

Notsovilepriest

02-22-2011, 01:49 AM

Yes, 1st was as my SK(Ex pally)<a href="http://everquest2.com/characters/character_profile.vm?characterId=1808127120"><img src="http://everquest2.com/signature/1808127120.png" /></a>2nd was from healing a BG on my defiler at the time(Went back Mystic now)

Lalen

02-22-2011, 03:45 AM

<cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>LOTS of log entries from Notsoevilpriest</blockquote>These are also very low level buffs this was dispelling there. Doom Judgement is a rather high level spell when you first get it so the fact it was removing so many buffs at that level doesn't surprise me.More in detail however, here is how you can tell when someone fudges logs or someone is using programs they shouldn't be:[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Everfrost.Pemberton.[Sat Feb 12 22:04:57 2011] Guk.Muscle's Doom Judgement dispels Aspect of Darkness from Everfrost.Pemberton.Say what you will, but it does not dispell the same buff twice for a single person.</blockquote>Lalen you seem like a nice person, you are taking time to read (thanks). But not enough time, evidently to comprehend.These are T9 BG's. You said the same thing about my low level buffs. What we have listed are T9 and in my case MASTERED T9 Buffs. I know Notsoeveilpriest's are T9 also (I suspect mastered also). I have told you that several times in this thread. Yet you continue to seemingly ignore it.What in the world do you mean by low level spells?Why do you keep glossing over proof with inane statements like 'fudges logs'. I know how to read logs and have since 01/2005 so has Notsoevilpriest. What we are showing you are RAW logs not parsed out in ACT or some parsing program.In reality if you are not seeing the same results you may be significantly less in stats than the crusader's we run against or simply undergeared or not using T9 master's. It is not our problem that you don't do as well as the crusader's we are showing via logs.What we do show you are real life logs on what Doom Judgement is doing. His do look a little funy in that he has both the Crusader view in one half and the crusader victim in the other half (I assume he was dual boxing or has a Crusader alt) I was actually not going to get involved orginally until your errant post (which I could not let go).It is possible it is not performing as intended in BG's. As demonstrated, that is how it IS performing. Any well geared Crusader is capable of this in BG's. I have seem no indication that it is cheating of anysort. It is too consistent, from too many players, many of whom I know fairly well. Some of whom I have played with and around for years. And more than a few who I consider friends. Bugged, not working as intended yes. Cheating, no way.</blockquote>All I know is when I sit in the arena with my wife and my wiz/pally box combo, the pally can only strip at most 4 buffs from either/or (4 buffs globally) I'm not sure what is going on in those logs as I'd love to see a dev respond to why this mechanic steams broken in the arena and non BG PVP. Even in BG's I can AOE dispell and only see 2 people get hit by it when people are gathered up tighter than a can of sardines. Something is off -- ability mods add to the level count or something because this is not something my pally is capable of doing with an expert version of this ability.

Striikor

02-22-2011, 10:05 AM

<cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>All I know is when I sit in the arena with my wife and my wiz/pally box combo, the pally can only strip at most 4 buffs from either/or (4 buffs globally) I'm not sure what is going on in those logs as I'd love to see a dev respond to why this mechanic steams broken in the arena and non BG PVP. Even in BG's I can AOE dispell and only see 2 people get hit by it when people are gathered up tighter than a can of sardines. Something is off -- ability mods add to the level count or something because this is not something my pally is capable of doing with an expert version of this ability.</blockquote>We can only represent our own experiences, ours differ. There are a whole lot of things than can improve the effectiveness of what is cast or resisted.Perhaps if it were behaving as your experience describes it would not be viewed as overpowering.I cannot see it being able to dispell my wards, as a shaman I have very little that is a straight heal. My Wards are my heals! I find it frustrating and OP that it can permanently remove the 'untill canceled buff's. It should at most 'disable' them for a limited time, perhaps even through death. I thought at one point dispels had a range of time limits for different classes from 12 to36 second? duration, if my memory is good. But it without question dispels are currently permanent .But's as a Mystic I find it punitive that I can be, stunned, stifled, knockback'd and dispelled +34% of my heal capability. It is worst in gear's as with a shaman's lesser straight heals and the focus damage put out by the relic (which is unaffected by our wards), the dispels are simply too much to make it challenging AND enjoyable.What I would ask for as a minimum are only two things: Make Dispels have a duration (so that until cancelled do not need to be recast) IDK 12-36 seconds depending on the spell tier?Make cast Wards (not proc wards) unable to be dispelled.That's it!My main is a ranger. I truly understand the unfairness of other classes calling for nerfs, particularly when they pay no attention to the negatives associated with the class. Or do not understand the mechannics that create a marginally balanced playing experience.I do not think dispels are working as intended in BG. If they are working as intended then they are OP and need adjustment. I have NO problem with them out side of a PvP environment.

Jab

02-25-2011, 09:41 AM

<cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>All I know is when I sit in the arena with my wife and my wiz/pally box combo, the pally can only strip at most 4 buffs from either/or (4 buffs globally) I'm not sure what is going on in those logs as I'd love to see a dev respond to why this mechanic steams broken in the arena and non BG PVP. Even in BG's I can AOE dispell and only see 2 people get hit by it when people are gathered up tighter than a can of sardines. Something is off -- ability mods add to the level count or something because this is not something my pally is capable of doing with an expert version of this ability.</blockquote>We can only represent our own experiences, ours differ. There are a whole lot of things than can improve the effectiveness of what is cast or resisted.Perhaps if it were behaving as your experience describes it would not be viewed as overpowering.I cannot see it being able to dispell my wards, as a shaman I have very little that is a straight heal. My Wards are my heals! I find it frustrating and OP that it can permanently remove the 'untill canceled buff's. It should at most 'disable' them for a limited time, perhaps even through death. I thought at one point dispels had a range of time limits for different classes from 12 to36 second? duration, if my memory is good. But it without question dispels are currently permanent .But's as a Mystic I find it punitive that I can be, stunned, stifled, knockback'd and dispelled +34% of my heal capability. It is worst in gear's as with a shaman's lesser straight heals and the focus damage put out by the relic (which is unaffected by our wards), the dispels are simply too much to make it challenging AND enjoyable.What I would ask for as a minimum are only two things: Make Dispels have a duration (so that until cancelled do not need to be recast) IDK 12-36 seconds depending on the spell tier?Make cast Wards (not proc wards) unable to be dispelled.That's it!My main is a ranger. I truly understand the unfairness of other classes calling for nerfs, particularly when they pay no attention to the negatives associated with the class. Or do not understand the mechannics that create a marginally balanced playing experience.I do not think dispels are working as intended in BG. If they are working as intended then they are OP and need adjustment. I have NO problem with them out side of a PvP environment.</blockquote>The stuff in yellow.Are u saying u feel unfair treated when ppl comment on rangers being powerfull ?If that is the case. Have mercy baby =) U got to put a disclaimer on before u post arguments like that. I could have died from laughing u know...Anyways plz mention the downside to ur ranger that makes it a balanced playing experience =) This has potential for being sticky worthy if u go down the road i suspect u will do =)

Striikor

02-25-2011, 10:14 AM

<cite>Jabib@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>All I know is when I sit in the arena with my wife and my wiz/pally box combo, the pally can only strip at most 4 buffs from either/or (4 buffs globally) I'm not sure what is going on in those logs as I'd love to see a dev respond to why this mechanic steams broken in the arena and non BG PVP. Even in BG's I can AOE dispell and only see 2 people get hit by it when people are gathered up tighter than a can of sardines. Something is off -- ability mods add to the level count or something because this is not something my pally is capable of doing with an expert version of this ability.</blockquote>We can only represent our own experiences, ours differ. There are a whole lot of things than can improve the effectiveness of what is cast or resisted.Perhaps if it were behaving as your experience describes it would not be viewed as overpowering.I cannot see it being able to dispell my wards, as a shaman I have very little that is a straight heal. My Wards are my heals! I find it frustrating and OP that it can permanently remove the 'untill canceled buff's. It should at most 'disable' them for a limited time, perhaps even through death. I thought at one point dispels had a range of time limits for different classes from 12 to36 second? duration, if my memory is good. But it without question dispels are currently permanent .But's as a Mystic I find it punitive that I can be, stunned, stifled, knockback'd and dispelled +34% of my heal capability. It is worst in gear's as with a shaman's lesser straight heals and the focus damage put out by the relic (which is unaffected by our wards), the dispels are simply too much to make it challenging AND enjoyable.What I would ask for as a minimum are only two things: Make Dispels have a duration (so that until cancelled do not need to be recast) IDK 12-36 seconds depending on the spell tier?Make cast Wards (not proc wards) unable to be dispelled.That's it!My main is a ranger. I truly understand the unfairness of other classes calling for nerfs, particularly when they pay no attention to the negatives associated with the class. Or do not understand the mechannics that create a marginally balanced playing experience.I do not think dispels are working as intended in BG. If they are working as intended then they are OP and need adjustment. I have NO problem with them out side of a PvP environment.</blockquote>The stuff in yellow.Are u saying u feel unfair treated when ppl comment on rangers being powerfull ?If that is the case. Have mercy baby =) U got to put a disclaimer on before u post arguments like that. I could have died from laughing u know...Anyways plz mention the downside to ur ranger that makes it a balanced playing experience =) This has potential for being sticky worthy if u go down the road i suspect u will do =)</blockquote>LOL been waiting on you, my ranger has plenty of brigands who take him down .... you are not one of them ROFL!!!

Jab

02-25-2011, 10:40 AM

<cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jabib@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>All I know is when I sit in the arena with my wife and my wiz/pally box combo, the pally can only strip at most 4 buffs from either/or (4 buffs globally) I'm not sure what is going on in those logs as I'd love to see a dev respond to why this mechanic steams broken in the arena and non BG PVP. Even in BG's I can AOE dispell and only see 2 people get hit by it when people are gathered up tighter than a can of sardines. Something is off -- ability mods add to the level count or something because this is not something my pally is capable of doing with an expert version of this ability.</blockquote>We can only represent our own experiences, ours differ. There are a whole lot of things than can improve the effectiveness of what is cast or resisted.Perhaps if it were behaving as your experience describes it would not be viewed as overpowering.I cannot see it being able to dispell my wards, as a shaman I have very little that is a straight heal. My Wards are my heals! I find it frustrating and OP that it can permanently remove the 'untill canceled buff's. It should at most 'disable' them for a limited time, perhaps even through death. I thought at one point dispels had a range of time limits for different classes from 12 to36 second? duration, if my memory is good. But it without question dispels are currently permanent .But's as a Mystic I find it punitive that I can be, stunned, stifled, knockback'd and dispelled +34% of my heal capability. It is worst in gear's as with a shaman's lesser straight heals and the focus damage put out by the relic (which is unaffected by our wards), the dispels are simply too much to make it challenging AND enjoyable.What I would ask for as a minimum are only two things: Make Dispels have a duration (so that until cancelled do not need to be recast) IDK 12-36 seconds depending on the spell tier?Make cast Wards (not proc wards) unable to be dispelled.That's it!My main is a ranger. I truly understand the unfairness of other classes calling for nerfs, particularly when they pay no attention to the negatives associated with the class. Or do not understand the mechannics that create a marginally balanced playing experience.I do not think dispels are working as intended in BG. If they are working as intended then they are OP and need adjustment. I have NO problem with them out side of a PvP environment.</blockquote>The stuff in yellow.Are u saying u feel unfair treated when ppl comment on rangers being powerfull ?If that is the case. Have mercy baby =) U got to put a disclaimer on before u post arguments like that. I could have died from laughing u know...Anyways plz mention the downside to ur ranger that makes it a balanced playing experience =) This has potential for being sticky worthy if u go down the road i suspect u will do =)</blockquote>LOL been waiting on you, my ranger has plenty of brigands who take him down .... you are not one of them ROFL!!!</blockquote>I have never seen u so im sure u have never killed me or been killed by me.Ofc brigands can kill rangers, i have never said differently. But if u think that on avg a brigand will beat a class with range adv then u are kidding urself.Range over melee anyday.. A ranger MUST beat a class that can only do dmg within 5meters compared to a rangers 50+.This is not a debate about taste, it is simple math baby..Anywyas i have my own ranger incase u missed it. And the only way i loose to a melee class is if i feel sorry for them and start the fight upclose. Other then that i am just toying with em..Again, i have my own ranger =) So dont come here arguing as if u are the only player with a ranger in the history of eq2 =) Hehe

Shareana

02-25-2011, 12:41 PM

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=445320&post_id=5512980" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=44532...post_id=5512980</a> Off topic.

Striikor

02-25-2011, 01:04 PM

<cite>Jabib@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jabib@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>All I know is when I sit in the arena with my wife and my wiz/pally box combo, the pally can only strip at most 4 buffs from either/or (4 buffs globally) I'm not sure what is going on in those logs as I'd love to see a dev respond to why this mechanic steams broken in the arena and non BG PVP. Even in BG's I can AOE dispell and only see 2 people get hit by it when people are gathered up tighter than a can of sardines. Something is off -- ability mods add to the level count or something because this is not something my pally is capable of doing with an expert version of this ability.</blockquote>We can only represent our own experiences, ours differ. There are a whole lot of things than can improve the effectiveness of what is cast or resisted.Perhaps if it were behaving as your experience describes it would not be viewed as overpowering.I cannot see it being able to dispell my wards, as a shaman I have very little that is a straight heal. My Wards are my heals! I find it frustrating and OP that it can permanently remove the 'untill canceled buff's. It should at most 'disable' them for a limited time, perhaps even through death. I thought at one point dispels had a range of time limits for different classes from 12 to36 second? duration, if my memory is good. But it without question dispels are currently permanent .But's as a Mystic I find it punitive that I can be, stunned, stifled, knockback'd and dispelled +34% of my heal capability. It is worst in gear's as with a shaman's lesser straight heals and the focus damage put out by the relic (which is unaffected by our wards), the dispels are simply too much to make it challenging AND enjoyable.What I would ask for as a minimum are only two things: Make Dispels have a duration (so that until cancelled do not need to be recast) IDK 12-36 seconds depending on the spell tier?Make cast Wards (not proc wards) unable to be dispelled.That's it!My main is a ranger. I truly understand the unfairness of other classes calling for nerfs, particularly when they pay no attention to the negatives associated with the class. Or do not understand the mechannics that create a marginally balanced playing experience.I do not think dispels are working as intended in BG. If they are working as intended then they are OP and need adjustment. I have NO problem with them out side of a PvP environment.</blockquote>The stuff in yellow.Are u saying u feel unfair treated when ppl comment on rangers being powerfull ?If that is the case. Have mercy baby =) U got to put a disclaimer on before u post arguments like that. I could have died from laughing u know...Anyways plz mention the downside to ur ranger that makes it a balanced playing experience =) This has potential for being sticky worthy if u go down the road i suspect u will do =)</blockquote>LOL been waiting on you, my ranger has plenty of brigands who take him down .... you are not one of them ROFL!!!</blockquote>I have never seen u so im sure u have never killed me or been killed by me.Ofc brigands can kill rangers, i have never said differently. But if u think that on avg a brigand will beat a class with range adv then u are kidding urself.Range over melee anyday.. A ranger MUST beat a class that can only do dmg within 5meters compared to a rangers 50+.This is not a debate about taste, it is simple math baby..Anywyas i have my own ranger incase u missed it. And the only way i loose to a melee class is if i feel sorry for them and start the fight upclose. Other then that i am just toying with em..Again, i have my own ranger =) So dont come here arguing as if u are the only player with a ranger in the history of eq2 =) Hehe</blockquote>Highlighted your typical idiot post. You too have a Ranger but you are allowed to express valid opinion and comment. I am on the other hand not according to you.You must be a liberal <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Jab

02-26-2011, 08:24 PM

<cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jabib@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jabib@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>All I know is when I sit in the arena with my wife and my wiz/pally box combo, the pally can only strip at most 4 buffs from either/or (4 buffs globally) I'm not sure what is going on in those logs as I'd love to see a dev respond to why this mechanic steams broken in the arena and non BG PVP. Even in BG's I can AOE dispell and only see 2 people get hit by it when people are gathered up tighter than a can of sardines. Something is off -- ability mods add to the level count or something because this is not something my pally is capable of doing with an expert version of this ability.</blockquote>We can only represent our own experiences, ours differ. There are a whole lot of things than can improve the effectiveness of what is cast or resisted.Perhaps if it were behaving as your experience describes it would not be viewed as overpowering.I cannot see it being able to dispell my wards, as a shaman I have very little that is a straight heal. My Wards are my heals! I find it frustrating and OP that it can permanently remove the 'untill canceled buff's. It should at most 'disable' them for a limited time, perhaps even through death. I thought at one point dispels had a range of time limits for different classes from 12 to36 second? duration, if my memory is good. But it without question dispels are currently permanent .But's as a Mystic I find it punitive that I can be, stunned, stifled, knockback'd and dispelled +34% of my heal capability. It is worst in gear's as with a shaman's lesser straight heals and the focus damage put out by the relic (which is unaffected by our wards), the dispels are simply too much to make it challenging AND enjoyable.What I would ask for as a minimum are only two things: Make Dispels have a duration (so that until cancelled do not need to be recast) IDK 12-36 seconds depending on the spell tier?Make cast Wards (not proc wards) unable to be dispelled.That's it!My main is a ranger. I truly understand the unfairness of other classes calling for nerfs, particularly when they pay no attention to the negatives associated with the class. Or do not understand the mechannics that create a marginally balanced playing experience.I do not think dispels are working as intended in BG. If they are working as intended then they are OP and need adjustment. I have NO problem with them out side of a PvP environment.</blockquote>The stuff in yellow.Are u saying u feel unfair treated when ppl comment on rangers being powerfull ?If that is the case. Have mercy baby =) U got to put a disclaimer on before u post arguments like that. I could have died from laughing u know...Anyways plz mention the downside to ur ranger that makes it a balanced playing experience =) This has potential for being sticky worthy if u go down the road i suspect u will do =)</blockquote>LOL been waiting on you, my ranger has plenty of brigands who take him down .... you are not one of them ROFL!!!</blockquote>I have never seen u so im sure u have never killed me or been killed by me.Ofc brigands can kill rangers, i have never said differently. But if u think that on avg a brigand will beat a class with range adv then u are kidding urself.Range over melee anyday.. A ranger MUST beat a class that can only do dmg within 5meters compared to a rangers 50+.This is not a debate about taste, it is simple math baby..Anywyas i have my own ranger incase u missed it. And the only way i loose to a melee class is if i feel sorry for them and start the fight upclose. Other then that i am just toying with em..Again, i have my own ranger =) So dont come here arguing as if u are the only player with a ranger in the history of eq2 =) Hehe</blockquote>Highlighted your typical idiot post. You too have a Ranger but you are allowed to express valid opinion and comment. I am on the other hand not according to you.You must be a liberal <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>=)I was hoping u could read between the lines..So here is a few pointers for u to hack apart.In bg, melee range is more then 5m, i had open world pvp in my mind when i was typing.Melee classes can do dmg over 5+meters via ranged auto attack and some ranged CA.Rangers can do dmg in close combat.Now, does that mean rangers are okay close up vs melee classes dps ?? Does it mean that melee can rival rangers in ranged dmg ??Im gonna give u the benefit of the doubt here and let u answer, although i dont have high hopes for u being able to do so =)Anywyas plz explain why my "typical idiot post" is an idiot post ? Plz explain what it is that is so wrong. Now dont go making this into a argument about how im off by a few meters when that has nothing to do with the truth in regards to the big picture--> Rangers being able to attack and do top dps from roughly 5-6 times the distance as melee..In open world pvp it is even worse with 10 times the distance..P.sSorry for the derail, will try to wrap this little argument up real fast and keep the OP´s topic in place.

Striikor

02-27-2011, 12:03 AM

<cite>Jabib@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>=)I was hoping u could read between the lines..So here is a few pointers for u to hack apart.In bg, melee range is more then 5m, i had open world pvp in my mind when i was typing. OK thats intersting did not know that. Is it a recent change?Melee classes can do dmg over 5+meters via ranged auto attack and some ranged CA. OK got that one rightRangers can do dmg in close combat. Good got that right tooNow, does that mean rangers are okay close up vs melee classes dps ?? Does it mean that melee can rival rangers in ranged dmg ?? Ahhhh no ... unless of course we take your statement above as fact <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />Im gonna give u the benefit of the doubt here and let u answer, although i dont have high hopes for u being able to do so =)Anywyas plz explain why my "typical idiot post" is an idiot post ? Uhhh how about topic? Plz explain what it is that is so wrong. Now dont go making this into a argument about how im off by a few meters when that has nothing to do with the truth in regards to the big picture--> Rangers being able to attack and do top dps from roughly 5-6 times the distance as melee..In open world pvp it is even worse with 10 times the distance.. If you still don't get it this point, I have no wish to totally derail the thread with such an off topic and regular rant of yours.P.sSorry for the derail, will try to wrap this little argument up real fast and keep the OP´s topic in place.</blockquote>My main for BG's is my Mystic which is (last I checked) where this thread is. And not PvP either BTW. I proposed a direction which you failed to address going off yet again on rangers.

Brigh

02-27-2011, 12:37 AM

Lethe5683

02-27-2011, 01:54 AM

The only problem with rangers is their range is a bit too far and their autoattack is too powerfull. They are not OP in every way like some people make them out to be and their OP ranged autoattack is not class specific as assassins can do just as much (actually more) with ranged autoattack due to flurry. In general autoattack damage needs to be nerfed.

Jab

02-27-2011, 07:46 AM

<cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jabib@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>=)I was hoping u could read between the lines..So here is a few pointers for u to hack apart.In bg, melee range is more then 5m, i had open world pvp in my mind when i was typing. OK thats intersting did not know that. Is it a recent change?Melee classes can do dmg over 5+meters via ranged auto attack and some ranged CA. OK got that one rightRangers can do dmg in close combat. Good got that right tooNow, does that mean rangers are okay close up vs melee classes dps ?? Does it mean that melee can rival rangers in ranged dmg ?? Ahhhh no ... unless of course we take your statement above as fact <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />Im gonna give u the benefit of the doubt here and let u answer, although i dont have high hopes for u being able to do so =)Anywyas plz explain why my "typical idiot post" is an idiot post ? Uhhh how about topic? Plz explain what it is that is so wrong. Now dont go making this into a argument about how im off by a few meters when that has nothing to do with the truth in regards to the big picture--> Rangers being able to attack and do top dps from roughly 5-6 times the distance as melee..In open world pvp it is even worse with 10 times the distance.. If you still don't get it this point, I have no wish to totally derail the thread with such an off topic and regular rant of yours.P.sSorry for the derail, will try to wrap this little argument up real fast and keep the OP´s topic in place.</blockquote>My main for BG's is my Mystic which is (last I checked) where this thread is. And not PvP either BTW. I proposed a direction which you failed to address going off yet again on rangers.</blockquote>I know i went off on a rant.But when u type such awfull information about the best class for pvp, well then i have to say something.The downsides to our ranger´s is next to nothing when comparing to what other classes have to deal with on a day to day basis. Thats why i went off on rangers yet again. Most ppl playing rangers have no idea of how good they have it when comparing to other classes. Infact, most ppl playing rangers remind me of spoiled kids that have no idea on how good they have it compared to the vast majority of other kids in the world.. =)Stay safe and happy hunting..Jabib out =)To the guy above.I can live with their range and dmg if only they couldent snare u so much and so often that it dosent matter if they could do 10 times less their current dmg, they will still kill u, it just takes longer. But enough about that. Back on topic.

Striikor

02-27-2011, 10:57 AM

<cite>Jabib@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>But when u type such awfull information about the best class for pvp, well then i have to say something.</blockquote>SKIP to BOOKMARK if you are interested in sticking with the original topicROFL!!! This is a BG thread bud! It was promised long ago that PvP would not affect PvE. Wrong! Been dealing with PvP generated Ranger nerfs for years and years. PvP lost us the ability to cast Ranged CA's on the move, bow nerfs, weak CA's and a myriad others.I nearly ditched my Ranger back in the SS days and with many others posted feedback and a lot of data to try and get Rangers close to where our sister class the assassins are. In fact many of the top Ranger's betrayed to Assassin (the lesser of two nerfs). Predators have been battling a long time to get DPS equal to our counterparts Wizards and Warlocks. All of which have less utility and survivability than other classes.I have said it before and I will say it again take Fettering out of BG if you want. I don't care, I don't use fettering (most topped Ranger's don't) there are better more effective poisons to win a match with. Of the 4 'pure' DPS classes, Ranger's are without question the least potential DPS. Is Ranger easier to spell than Shadowknight, Warden or ....I am not going to respond to any more derailments I you want to start another rail on Ranger's start another thread.BOOKMARK Back on topic.Debuffs hinder and make opponents less effective by sticking a TIMED spell on the opponent.Dispels are PERMANENTLY removing buffs.I do not agree with the OP entirely. I think AoE Dispel should remain and be effective. But as ALL dispels work they are OP in BG. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong but I believe that dispel's originally had a duration. At some point duration was lost. The solution (and I think a return to the better original view) is pretty obvious IMO.Make Dispels have a duration (so that until cancelled do not need to be recast) IDK 12-36 seconds depending on the spell tier? Still effective, still greatly detrimental, still frustrating but workable!!Make cast Wards (not proc wards) unable to be dispelled.

Jab

02-27-2011, 12:01 PM

<cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jabib@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>But when u type such awfull information about the best class for pvp, well then i have to say something.</blockquote>SKIP to BOOKMARK if you are interested in sticking with the original topicROFL!!! This is a BG thread bud! It was promised long ago that PvP would not affect PvE. Wrong! Been dealing with PvP generated Ranger nerfs for years and years. PvP lost us the ability to cast Ranged CA's on the move, bow nerfs, weak CA's and a myriad others.I nearly ditched my Ranger back in the SS days and with many others posted feedback and a lot of data to try and get Rangers close to where our sister class the assassins are. In fact many of the top Ranger's betrayed to Assassin (the lesser of two nerfs). Predators have been battling a long time to get DPS equal to our counterparts Wizards and Warlocks. All of which have less utility and survivability than other classes.I have said it before and I will say it again take Fettering out of BG if you want. I don't care, I don't use fettering (most topped Ranger's don't) there are better more effective poisons to win a match with. Of the 4 'pure' DPS classes, Ranger's are without question the least potential DPS. Is Ranger easier to spell than Shadowknight, Warden or ....I am not going to respond to any more derailments I you want to start another rail on Ranger's start another thread.BOOKMARK Back on topic.Debuffs hinder and make opponents less effective by sticking a TIMED spell on the opponent.Dispels are PERMANENTLY removing buffs.I do not agree with the OP entirely. I think AoE Dispel should remain and be effective. But as ALL dispels work they are OP in BG. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong but I believe that dispel's originally had a duration. At some point duration was lost. The solution (and I think a return to the better original view) is pretty obvious IMO.Make Dispels have a duration (so that until cancelled do not need to be recast) IDK 12-36 seconds depending on the spell tier? Still effective, still greatly detrimental, still frustrating but workable!!Make cast Wards (not proc wards) unable to be dispelled. </blockquote>Whats that sound i hear in the distance.. Sounds like a WHAAAAMBULAAANCE =)Relax and take a chillpill.. Just because u got owned dosent mean u cant have a normal life like the rest of us =)

Striikor

02-28-2011, 03:00 PM

ROFL!!! OMG you are amusing. Done responding, you have proved to everyone reading this, your value in the discussion<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> What more could I possibly say?

Jab

02-28-2011, 04:12 PM

<cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote>ROFL!!! OMG you are amusing. Done responding, you have proved to everyone reading this, your value in the discussion<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> What more could I possibly say?</blockquote>Hehe..Im happy to help with the humor m8..Anyways, what happens in fightclub eh forum stays in forum.Quick hint. Stop with the rofl,omg and lol remarks, it makes u sound like a 15 year old kid..

Lark42

02-28-2011, 06:20 PM

The dispel situation is extremely frustrating as an Illusionist in PvP. Not only are Illusionists almost exclusively a buff class (with a considerable amount of DoTs, which are also curable), our pets can be REMOVED by dispels.That's right---Dispelling an Illusionist instantly removes our pet as it is currently flagged as a dispellable effect.Whenever you go into a BG, there is always at least one Crusader (not uncommon to have more than one)...Yes, rogues can do it too, but rogues are so much rarer and have a lower impact than Crusaders in BG. This means that anytime my Illusionist does a BG, I am fighting it without a pet the entire time (and without many of my buffs, as it takes a year to rebuff as an Illusionists after death/dispels).The ability of Crusaders to do massive, frequent, AE dispels is beyond frustrating. Why the hell do Crusaders get this ability anyways? It doesn't even fit the class concept. Crusaders with mass dispel capability makes almost as much sense as a Berserker with the ability to spell reflect (which Crusaders can do as well, by the way). If you still think that Crusaders aren't at a massively huge advantage in PvP, you are ignorant as hell.

Rahatmattata

03-10-2011, 10:23 PM

<cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote>It also dispels green potions which is completely stupid.</blockquote>That is 100% untrue.</blockquote>You are 100% wrong. I'll post proof later.</blockquote>Yea, this isn't annoying every 20 seconds with 50 crusaders on a map.<img src="http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7743/eq2000112.jpg" width="1920" height="1080" />

AziBam

03-11-2011, 12:17 AM

Pretty solid proof. I think the dispels (in general) are also getting rid of food and drink. I just find that darn annoying. And not in a "that's great pvp" way.