Lack of Interaction Stifles PvP [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Waking

08-21-2010, 12:23 AM

Just some simple thoughts on what has changed in the last year and a half.The best gear is now from instances - You can't pvp in instancesThe instances are decentralized - You don't pass people on the way nearly as much.There aren't as many tough contested raids - No reason to put together multiple raids.The best gear for PvP can be had without really doing open world PvP.Is there a way to fix this that wouldn't hinder the fun of PvE players on non-PvP servers?

Stuckx

08-21-2010, 12:32 AM

<cite>Waking wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just some simple thoughts on what has changed in the last year and a half.The best gear is now from instances - You can't pvp in instances False. The best gear for PVP is currently from BG/PVP,which is part of the reason PVP is now steadily dying.The instances are decentralized - You don't pass people on the way nearly as much. You don't pass people as much because none of them are doing instances. No one on a PVP server wants to run instances when the gear doesn't help them at all in PVP. There aren't as many tough contested raids - No reason to put together multiple raids. That probably has more to do with SOE's poor servers and the massive lag that occurs when more than 24 people are in a zone.The best gear for PvP can be had without really doing open world PvP. This is true. BG's provide the best gear for PVP. This results in no one wanting to do the PVE content..which results in no groups..no interaction with other players,and boredom. People get bored doing nothing but PVP all day,and they get bored fast. Seperation of PVE and PVP(by making PVE gear useless in PVP) is killing the PVP servers..plain and simple.Is there a way to fix this that wouldn't hinder the fun of PvE players on non-PvP servers?Yes. Make PVE a valid method of obtaining gear to better your character in PVP. This does not mean make PVP gear that can be used to make raiding easy mode. Make it so people's hard earned PVE gear is a viable option in PVP..this will result in people WANTING to run zones and raid and get all that uber gear thats going to give them a leg up on the competition. PVP cannot exist in a game like EQ2 without PVE to balance it and give players something to do other than PVP(while at the same time still advancing their character to be better in a PVP situation.) This is a fact. It's been proven. Look at the state of the game in KoS/EoF..thriving PVP servers with a health mix of PVP and PVE. Hell..it was still perfectly find in TSO,even though the PVP gear made raiding easy mode. The PVP servers are going down the tube,and they're circling the drain faster and faster because PVPers are bored spamming BG's all day without experiencing the rest of the game. Until the devs get this through their thick skulls..the servers are going to continue to suffer.</blockquote>

Bosconi

08-21-2010, 01:09 AM

They could make contested dungeons of each instance, adjusted with appropriate respawns/drop rates, scaled to each tier possible.I've suggested this in the past but, I dunno how open to it they are. = I really like teh idea! =]

Kota

08-21-2010, 03:39 AM

making pve instance gear better won't help pvp much. guild rally banner much ? might result in more cloud camping tho. circa kos

Epiph

08-21-2010, 04:30 AM

And KOS was where better than Sentinels Fate, sorry to tell you.

Waking

08-21-2010, 01:38 PM

Stuck,I tried for simplicity. My point first was it's increasingly true as you gain levels that the best PvE gear is not the best PvP gear. This is a contrast of today to a year and a half ago, not a thread for transcendent statements about gaming truth <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I agree with you about separation of PvP and PvE gear, that was my point <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />What do you mean no one is doing instances? All the NON PvP gear I see on people is instanced gear. How did they get all this gear without doing instances? <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />As for lag, that hasn't always been a problem. There are several types of lag and the type that I think you're talking about really occurs when there are more than 100 people in a zone. That's why there's a cap on how many people can be on zones and that's why the lag in CL/ANT was insane until they made changes. People were flooding the zone after it had been closed and duplicate. Before Warfields (when there was open pvp a year and a half ago) people would fight in groups, or raids and the lag was a factor but it was managable, and it was still fun. So fun that everyone was still out pvping <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> So let's not distract the issue. Lag isn't the primary problem until you have too much open pvp to lag.And I agree with your solution... make PvE and PvP both contribute to success but not totally exclude or totally nullify one another. People won't be OUT there unless there is an incentive to progress their characters and become more competitive, and unless they are OUT there there won't be open PvP.

Kota

08-21-2010, 01:46 PM

kinda late to be talking about gear to motivate ppl to pvp. most ppl have a couple thousand tokens in their banks by my guess. kos wasn't good. the crying just hadn't hit full swing yet. it's just a fond memory. kos was lots of cloud camping. kos was getting into a big fight and having leechers loot all the tokens while you were pvp'ing. only good thing about kos was the harvest bots, but they didn't always drop tokens. kos was the shiny new eq2 pvp. that's all. of course it was cool at the time. it was new.

Waking

08-21-2010, 01:49 PM

So you're saying you don't like PvP or what?

gotaroll

08-21-2010, 02:30 PM

<cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Waking wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just some simple thoughts on what has changed in the last year and a half.The best gear is now from instances - You can't pvp in instances False. The best gear for PVP is currently from BG/PVP,which is part of the reason PVP is now steadily dying.The instances are decentralized - You don't pass people on the way nearly as much. You don't pass people as much because none of them are doing instances. No one on a PVP server wants to run instances when the gear doesn't help them at all in PVP. There aren't as many tough contested raids - No reason to put together multiple raids. That probably has more to do with SOE's poor servers and the massive lag that occurs when more than 24 people are in a zone.The best gear for PvP can be had without really doing open world PvP. This is true. BG's provide the best gear for PVP. This results in no one wanting to do the PVE content..which results in no groups..no interaction with other players,and boredom. People get bored doing nothing but PVP all day,and they get bored fast. Seperation of PVE and PVP(by making PVE gear useless in PVP) is killing the PVP servers..plain and simple.Is there a way to fix this that wouldn't hinder the fun of PvE players on non-PvP servers?Yes. Make PVE a valid method of obtaining gear to better your character in PVP. This does not mean make PVP gear that can be used to make raiding easy mode. Make it so people's hard earned PVE gear is a viable option in PVP..this will result in people WANTING to run zones and raid and get all that uber gear thats going to give them a leg up on the competition. PVP cannot exist in a game like EQ2 without PVE to balance it and give players something to do other than PVP(while at the same time still advancing their character to be better in a PVP situation.) This is a fact. It's been proven. Look at the state of the game in KoS/EoF..thriving PVP servers with a health mix of PVP and PVE. Hell..it was still perfectly find in TSO,even though the PVP gear made raiding easy mode. The PVP servers are going down the tube,and they're circling the drain faster and faster because PVPers are bored spamming BG's all day without experiencing the rest of the game. Until the devs get this through their thick skulls..the servers are going to continue to suffer.</blockquote></blockquote>Well put Stucks , I agree with you 100%

Ol

08-21-2010, 03:48 PM

<cite>gotaroll wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Waking wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just some simple thoughts on what has changed in the last year and a half.The best gear is now from instances - You can't pvp in instances False. The best gear for PVP is currently from BG/PVP,which is part of the reason PVP is now steadily dying.The instances are decentralized - You don't pass people on the way nearly as much. You don't pass people as much because none of them are doing instances. No one on a PVP server wants to run instances when the gear doesn't help them at all in PVP. There aren't as many tough contested raids - No reason to put together multiple raids. That probably has more to do with SOE's poor servers and the massive lag that occurs when more than 24 people are in a zone.The best gear for PvP can be had without really doing open world PvP. This is true. BG's provide the best gear for PVP. This results in no one wanting to do the PVE content..which results in no groups..no interaction with other players,and boredom. People get bored doing nothing but PVP all day,and they get bored fast. Seperation of PVE and PVP(by making PVE gear useless in PVP) is killing the PVP servers..plain and simple.Is there a way to fix this that wouldn't hinder the fun of PvE players on non-PvP servers?Yes. Make PVE a valid method of obtaining gear to better your character in PVP. This does not mean make PVP gear that can be used to make raiding easy mode. Make it so people's hard earned PVE gear is a viable option in PVP..this will result in people WANTING to run zones and raid and get all that uber gear thats going to give them a leg up on the competition. PVP cannot exist in a game like EQ2 without PVE to balance it and give players something to do other than PVP(while at the same time still advancing their character to be better in a PVP situation.) This is a fact. It's been proven. Look at the state of the game in KoS/EoF..thriving PVP servers with a health mix of PVP and PVE. Hell..it was still perfectly find in TSO,even though the PVP gear made raiding easy mode. The PVP servers are going down the tube,and they're circling the drain faster and faster because PVPers are bored spamming BG's all day without experiencing the rest of the game. Until the devs get this through their thick skulls..the servers are going to continue to suffer.</blockquote></blockquote>Well put Stucks , I agree with you 100%</blockquote>+1

EndevorX

08-21-2010, 07:05 PM

<cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Waking wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just some simple thoughts on what has changed in the last year and a half.The best gear is now from instances - You can't pvp in instances False. The best gear for PVP is currently from BG/PVP,which is part of the reason PVP is now steadily dying.The instances are decentralized - You don't pass people on the way nearly as much. You don't pass people as much because none of them are doing instances. No one on a PVP server wants to run instances when the gear doesn't help them at all in PVP. There aren't as many tough contested raids - No reason to put together multiple raids. That probably has more to do with SOE's poor servers and the massive lag that occurs when more than 24 people are in a zone.The best gear for PvP can be had without really doing open world PvP. This is true. BG's provide the best gear for PVP. This results in no one wanting to do the PVE content..which results in no groups..no interaction with other players,and boredom. People get bored doing nothing but PVP all day,and they get bored fast. Seperation of PVE and PVP(by making PVE gear useless in PVP) is killing the PVP servers..plain and simple.Is there a way to fix this that wouldn't hinder the fun of PvE players on non-PvP servers?Yes. Make PVE a valid method of obtaining gear to better your character in PVP. This does not mean make PVP gear that can be used to make raiding easy mode. Make it so people's hard earned PVE gear is a viable option in PVP..this will result in people WANTING to run zones and raid and get all that uber gear thats going to give them a leg up on the competition. PVP cannot exist in a game like EQ2 without PVE to balance it and give players something to do other than PVP(while at the same time still advancing their character to be better in a PVP situation.) This is a fact. It's been proven. Look at the state of the game in KoS/EoF..thriving PVP servers with a health mix of PVP and PVE. Hell..it was still perfectly find in TSO,even though the PVP gear made raiding easy mode. The PVP servers are going down the tube,and they're circling the drain faster and faster because PVPers are bored spamming BG's all day without experiencing the rest of the game. Until the devs get this through their thick skulls..the servers are going to continue to suffer.</blockquote></blockquote>Uhm...I'd also note that people succeed plentifully in PvP, even with builds that are 70% PvE drops.

Stuckx

08-21-2010, 07:29 PM

<cite>Seliri@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Waking wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just some simple thoughts on what has changed in the last year and a half.The best gear is now from instances - You can't pvp in instances False. The best gear for PVP is currently from BG/PVP,which is part of the reason PVP is now steadily dying.The instances are decentralized - You don't pass people on the way nearly as much. You don't pass people as much because none of them are doing instances. No one on a PVP server wants to run instances when the gear doesn't help them at all in PVP. There aren't as many tough contested raids - No reason to put together multiple raids. That probably has more to do with SOE's poor servers and the massive lag that occurs when more than 24 people are in a zone.The best gear for PvP can be had without really doing open world PvP. This is true. BG's provide the best gear for PVP. This results in no one wanting to do the PVE content..which results in no groups..no interaction with other players,and boredom. People get bored doing nothing but PVP all day,and they get bored fast. Seperation of PVE and PVP(by making PVE gear useless in PVP) is killing the PVP servers..plain and simple.Is there a way to fix this that wouldn't hinder the fun of PvE players on non-PvP servers?Yes. Make PVE a valid method of obtaining gear to better your character in PVP. This does not mean make PVP gear that can be used to make raiding easy mode. Make it so people's hard earned PVE gear is a viable option in PVP..this will result in people WANTING to run zones and raid and get all that uber gear thats going to give them a leg up on the competition. PVP cannot exist in a game like EQ2 without PVE to balance it and give players something to do other than PVP(while at the same time still advancing their character to be better in a PVP situation.) This is a fact. It's been proven. Look at the state of the game in KoS/EoF..thriving PVP servers with a health mix of PVP and PVE. Hell..it was still perfectly find in TSO,even though the PVP gear made raiding easy mode. The PVP servers are going down the tube,and they're circling the drain faster and faster because PVPers are bored spamming BG's all day without experiencing the rest of the game. Until the devs get this through their thick skulls..the servers are going to continue to suffer.</blockquote></blockquote>Uhm...I'd also note that people succeed plentifully in PvP, even with builds that are 70% PvE drops.</blockquote>I'm not seeing it. I logged in my 90 warden with 28% damage reduction and people were dropping my health without much trouble at all. I was able to survive with a few people beating on me,but only barely. I don't see anyone being successfull with 70% PVE gear..their toughness would be lowere than mine and they'd die alot faster.

EndevorX

08-21-2010, 07:45 PM

<cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Seliri@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Waking wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just some simple thoughts on what has changed in the last year and a half.The best gear is now from instances - You can't pvp in instances False. The best gear for PVP is currently from BG/PVP,which is part of the reason PVP is now steadily dying.The instances are decentralized - You don't pass people on the way nearly as much. You don't pass people as much because none of them are doing instances. No one on a PVP server wants to run instances when the gear doesn't help them at all in PVP. There aren't as many tough contested raids - No reason to put together multiple raids. That probably has more to do with SOE's poor servers and the massive lag that occurs when more than 24 people are in a zone.The best gear for PvP can be had without really doing open world PvP. This is true. BG's provide the best gear for PVP. This results in no one wanting to do the PVE content..which results in no groups..no interaction with other players,and boredom. People get bored doing nothing but PVP all day,and they get bored fast. Seperation of PVE and PVP(by making PVE gear useless in PVP) is killing the PVP servers..plain and simple.Is there a way to fix this that wouldn't hinder the fun of PvE players on non-PvP servers?Yes. Make PVE a valid method of obtaining gear to better your character in PVP. This does not mean make PVP gear that can be used to make raiding easy mode. Make it so people's hard earned PVE gear is a viable option in PVP..this will result in people WANTING to run zones and raid and get all that uber gear thats going to give them a leg up on the competition. PVP cannot exist in a game like EQ2 without PVE to balance it and give players something to do other than PVP(while at the same time still advancing their character to be better in a PVP situation.) This is a fact. It's been proven. Look at the state of the game in KoS/EoF..thriving PVP servers with a health mix of PVP and PVE. Hell..it was still perfectly find in TSO,even though the PVP gear made raiding easy mode. The PVP servers are going down the tube,and they're circling the drain faster and faster because PVPers are bored spamming BG's all day without experiencing the rest of the game. Until the devs get this through their thick skulls..the servers are going to continue to suffer.</blockquote></blockquote>Uhm...I'd also note that people succeed plentifully in PvP, even with builds that are 70% PvE drops.</blockquote>I'm not seeing it. I logged in my 90 warden with 28% damage reduction and people were dropping my health without much trouble at all. I was able to survive with a few people beating on me,but only barely. I don't see anyone being successfull with 70% PVE gear..their toughness would be lowere than mine and they'd die alot faster.</blockquote>All it takes is 15/21 pieces for a nearly full, 70% PvE specification.6 pieces of PvP armor is all it takes to have 25% damage mitigation and 83% critical mitigation.And believe me, you're GRAVELY mistaken if you think there aren't 15 top-tier, high-end raiding items that are leaps and bounds ABOVE what is available as PvP/battlegrounds gear.Are you not acquainted with <a href="eq2.xanadu-community.com/items.php" target="_blank">eq2.xanadu-community.com/items.php</a> or something?It's very easy to identify extremely viable equipment options as a priest.