Missing Mounts... Found On Marketplace!

[Bluescreen404]

<p>So I logged in this evening after the patch and found my War-Barded Black Cavalry Horse whistle had mysteriously become unattuned and Fabled.  Odd.  I also noticed that the Marketplace now has a "Standard Mounts" tab... and that same horse is now available to buy for 1250 Smedbucks, along with the black-saddled blue-flame Nightmare and the black-saddled two-toned warg.  Smelling a rat, I checked the Stable merchant in Gorowyn and Neriak...</p><p>Lo and behold, the black cavalry horse, blue-flame Nightmare, and the warg are all no longer available for plat and status like they were before.  They are now SC-only.  In fact, nearly every single variant of the blue fiery Nightmare horse is now gone as well from the horse dealer, not available for plat OR StationCash!  I'm on Lucan D'Lere, not an Extended server, so this is more than a little upsetting to see.  Ok, understatement -- I was raging into /gu for a good 20 minutes at seeing them actually *take items away* from us on the P2P Live servers and suddenly start requiring cold hard cash for them!  Not only are these non-fluff items on the Marketplace on a Live server, but they are items that used to be earnable with plat and status, now gone.  This is taking removal of content to a whole new sleazy level. </p><p>I really, really hope this is another "error" like the Mastercrafted gear showing up in the Marketplace on the EU servers earlier.  If this is intentional, I am livid, and wonder what else will be taken away and made StationCa$h only in the future.</p><p>Incidentally, I also spotted the Tracking scroll for sale in the Marketplace on LDL... another non-fluff item in the cash shop on a non-Extended server.</p><p>Is anyone seeing this nonsense on any of the other servers, or is it just Lucan?</p>

[EndevorX]

<p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Nagafen's Station Cash marketplace and doesn't have any items listed (aside from "[DEVL] Item With a Very Long Name" and </span><span style="color: #ff6600;">"[DEVL] Item With a Very Very Very Very Very Very Long Name"</span><span style="color: #ff6600;">).</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">All of our regular mounts are still in tact, but we have some additional Station Cash options, but they sort to the bottom of the list when price is sorted from cheapest to priciest, or vice versa.</span></p>

[katalmach]

<p>It's the same on Splitpaw. I just checked the mount merchant in Neriak and the War-Barded Black Cavalry horse and the Two-Toned Warg are now both only available for 1250 station cash. I certainly hope that's just a bug, because it'd be absolutely disgusting and shameful if it isn't.</p>

[Kenazeer]

<p>I really don't see how a series of "mistakes" could lead to something "accidently" disappearing off a merchant, "accidently" being assigned a smedbucks value, and "accidently" appearing on the marketplace.</p><p>You know the old saying right..."quack, quack, quack." Not directed at the people in this thread in particular, but it is funny to see more people start realize the true nature of SOE that some people have been warning about all along.</p><p>Edited to add: And if they come back and say</p><p>"Well we didn't mean to remove the ability to purcahse them with status and pp, we meant to add them to the marketplace as an additional avenue of procurement"</p><p>The old <strong>seperate</strong> items for the actual game and the smedbucks store mantra just went right out the window. They will start out with mounts...then move on to something else that used to be exlusive to subscribers.</p>

[MSB9380]

<p>So if this is the route we are going, then can I buy a CoV that actually works all the time from the Marketplace? You know...since the Vet reward works SOMETIMES, sell one that works ALL the time!</p>

[Xill]

<p>Is this for real? They removed the mounts for purchase and made them SC only? Are you freaking kidding me?</p>

[Barx]

<p>I sincerely hope this is a bug. Mounts that were previously for coin should not be made available on the marketplace on the EQ2Live servers.</p>

[Xill]

<p>Anyone else experiencing this? I know the forum is flooded right now lol so its hard to find this post, but this HAS to be a bug right?</p>

[BlueEternal]

<p>Confirmed on Nagafen. That 5 charges of tracking is also there.</p>

[Hellswrath]

<p>Don't know, but I certainly hope it is.</p>

[Gaige]

<p>This entire GU and its "bugs" are just so lulzworthy, I can't stop smiling irl.</p>

[Geothe]

<p>SoE: Reaching new levels of pathetic hourly!</p>

[Cuedywene]

<p>Hope for the best and assume the worst....</p>

[Jesdyr]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This entire GU and its "bugs" are just so lulzworthy, I can't stop smiling irl.</p></blockquote><p>Just wait till after this patch ...</p>

[Munu]

<p><cite>Bluescreen404 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So I logged in this evening after the patch and found my War-Barded Black Cavalry Horse whistle had mysteriously become unattuned and Fabled.  Odd.  I also noticed that the Marketplace now has a "Standard Mounts" tab... and that same horse is now available to buy for 1250 Smedbucks, along with the black-saddled blue-flame Nightmare and the black-saddled two-toned warg.  Smelling a rat, I checked the Stable merchant in Gorowyn and Neriak...</p><p>Lo and behold, the black cavalry horse, blue-flame Nightmare, and the warg are all no longer available for plat and status like they were before.  They are now SC-only.  In fact, nearly every single variant of the blue fiery Nightmare horse is now gone as well from the horse dealer, not available for plat OR StationCash!  I'm on Lucan D'Lere, not an Extended server, so this is more than a little upsetting to see.  Ok, understatement -- I was raging into /gu for a good 20 minutes at seeing them actually *take items away* from us on the P2P Live servers and suddenly start requiring cold hard cash for them!  Not only are these non-fluff items on the Marketplace on a Live server, but they are items that used to be earnable with plat and status, now gone.  This is taking removal of content to a whole new sleazy level. </p><p>I really, really hope this is another "error" like the Mastercrafted gear showing up in the Marketplace on the EU servers earlier.  If this is intentional, I am livid, and wonder what else will be taken away and made StationCa$h only in the future.</p><p>Incidentally, I also spotted the Tracking scroll for sale in the Marketplace on LDL... another non-fluff item in the cash shop on a non-Extended server.</p><p>Is anyone seeing this nonsense on any of the other servers, or is it just Lucan?</p></blockquote><p>          THIS ^^^</p><p>I'd really appreciate an answer from SoE on this. Splitpaw has certainly lost these previously status/plat mounts to the marketplace. Also there is a scroll of tracking for sale there too.</p><p>I'm getting really tired now.....</p><p>For what it's worth, I have not joined the screaming hordes who seem to detest the new UI and spell FX.... I can live quite happily with both, and for me at least, they won't affect my gameplay at all. Shame you didn't manage to get an auto attk bar or click to cure into the UI, that would prolly have gone a long way to getting this update a better review.</p><p>What is upsetting/frustrating me (and to be honest really makinging me consider if I want to stay in this game ) is the amount of "bugs"  in this update....</p><p>1. MC armour for RMT on international servers</p><p>2. Xp bugged by some adjustments made to xp bonuses ( which at the moment you have ommited to explain fully)</p><p>3. People able to change thier classes completely</p><p>4. The nice new shiny UI resetting your whole UI when you change colour</p><p>and now 5.? The removal of game content previously available to players EARNING them by way of status and plat, now making the same content only available through RMT.</p><p>I really hope someone with a red name can reply to this thread to confirm it is yet another GU57 bug. Because if this was intended, then this game is definately headed in a direction I have no intention of going. Removing content and then asking us to pay via RMT for said content is treating your subscribers with the utmost contempt.</p><p>If this is indeed a bug.. like all the others in this GU, then I would like to enquire how this  GU has been allowed to go live with so many flaws, all/most of which have greatly offended your current subscribers?</p><p>There is no new content, lots of bugs, and even perhaps the removal of game purchasable items to be sold for RMT.... I really don't pay my subscription for such poor quality.</p>

[Kaeliara]

Wow...that's just...despicable.

[Tallithia]

<p>The best predicter of the future,  is the past.  Not surprised.</p>

[Alenna]

<p>I do hope this is a mistake, or I may be begging my husband to help me save money for an upgraded computer so I can move on to Rift.</p><p>Rift is looking more and more appealing with every report I see about this GU. and I was jsut about to send a RAF to a friend of mine to see if I could help keep the live servers up. But don't want him caught up in a money making scam.</p>

[Gaige]

<p>I seriously doubt it was a bug.  SOE is just getting a lot more bold in their quest to convert EQ2 to not only a RMT game but a RMT game you have to subscribe to.</p>

[S_M_I_T_E]

<p><cite>Xill wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Is this for real? They removed the mounts for purchase and made them SC only? Are you freaking kidding me?</p></blockquote><p>1) Part of me says "good job" as company.</p><p>2) Part of me says "thanks for letting me pay $7" for something other than the cat mount on my lowbie alts that aren't status rich.</p><p>3) Part of me also say "whoa... slipperly slope ahead" and tells me to cut and run while I still can... </p><p>Maybe I ought to finish PS2 Champions of Norrath 1, 2 and then start playing the Mass Effects, Etc. just stiing on my shelf till this all blows over with EQ2x either winning (Live is imploded) or losing (GU 57 reverted at a later date). </p><p>It's like being on the company pension plan and seeing your co-worker getting the "layoff" present at 60 so the company won't have to pay years of health insurance and free-loading retirement payments by letting them reach 62.  No amount of PR can cover this up. </p><p>I'd argue that there's alot of intelligent adults that play this game that can't be fooled with a hand wave and a calm tone of voice that belongs over in SWG.</p><p>"These are not the droids you are looking for..."  "SC won't affect the game in any serious manner..." </p>

[Laenai]

<p>Disgusting.</p>

[Pervis]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This entire GU and its "bugs" are just so lulzworthy, I can't stop smiling irl.</p></blockquote><p>Makes me wonder if there is a developer or two that are unhappy with things, but need the job...</p>

[Stylish]

<p><cite>Pervis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This entire GU and its "bugs" are just so lulzworthy, I can't stop smiling irl.</p></blockquote><p>Makes me wonder if there is a developer or two that are unhappy with things, but need the job...</p></blockquote><p>This ^</p><p>Some of these people have families etc that they have to support so I am sure some of them are biting their tounges. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Xill]

<p>Still waiting on a red name for this one. Is this really intended or an accident? Please respond.</p>

[Valdaglerion]

<p><cite>Stylish wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Pervis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This entire GU and its "bugs" are just so lulzworthy, I can't stop smiling irl.</p></blockquote><p>Makes me wonder if there is a developer or two that are unhappy with things, but need the job...</p></blockquote><p>This ^</p><p>Some of these people have families etc that they have to support so I am sure some of them are biting their tounges. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Last I heard Rift is anticipated for February 2011. IF that holds true it could be not only cold but desolate in Velious.</p>

[Stylish]

<p><cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stylish wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Pervis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This entire GU and its "bugs" are just so lulzworthy, I can't stop smiling irl.</p></blockquote><p>Makes me wonder if there is a developer or two that are unhappy with things, but need the job...</p></blockquote><p>This ^</p><p>Some of these people have families etc that they have to support so I am sure some of them are biting their tounges. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Last I heard Rift is anticipated for February 2011. IF that holds true it could be not only cold but desolate in Velious.</p></blockquote><p>Drastic changes in an established MMO = Disaster.</p><p>Always works that way.</p><p>Like the NGE, someone high up in the company made decisions on this one that has NEVER played an MMO.</p>

[Deson]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This entire GU and its "bugs" are just so lulzworthy, I can't stop smiling irl.</p></blockquote><p>Same.</p><p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I seriously doubt it was a bug.  SOE is just getting a lot more bold in their quest to convert EQ2 to not only a RMT game but a RMT game you have to subscribe to.</p></blockquote><p>Oh I'm sure it was a bug. One of the,"You weren't suposed to see that yet",variety.</p>

[Melanchol]

<p><cite>S_M_I_T_E wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Xill wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Is this for real? They removed the mounts for purchase and made them SC only? Are you freaking kidding me?</p></blockquote><p>3) Part of me also say "whoa... slipperly slope ahead" and tells me to cut and run while I still can... </p></blockquote><p>oh no, we're already on the slipper slope. and it's no longer the bunny hill. This here is the triple black diamond.</p>

[Gaige]

<p>I'm sure that's what they will say.  I also hope its true.  No way they come out and say its intended, especially not with the huge backlash that is currently going on.  Of course, I could be wrong and that would make me lol until I pass out probably, from the amazing, um, feedback it would generate.</p>

[Melanchol]

eq2x will not change live servers in any way. change we can believe in.

[Gaige]

<p>If this is intended, and no way I see them saying that.  I mean really.  Especially the tracking scrolls...  just...</p><p>Anyway lol, if this is intended I will be absolutely 100% impressed with how fast Smokejumper was able to get the community to turn on him.  I kind of assumed that being SP after Brenlo was a job that was impossible to screw up.  The expectations were already so low and some players were so glad to see Brenlo leave after the rough year we had - its just crazy to see how the community perception of Smokejumper has 180'd so fast.</p>

[Deson]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm sure that's what they will say.  I also hope its true.  No way they come out and say its intended, especially not with the huge backlash that is currently going on.  Of course, I could be wrong and that would make me lol until I pass out probably, from the amazing, um, feedback it would generate.</p></blockquote><p>I'll have to block the site to prevent dying from laughter.</p><p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If this is intended, and no way I see them saying that.  I mean really.  Especially the tracking scrolls...  just...</p><p>Anyway lol, if this is intended I will be absolutely 100% impressed with how fast Smokejumper was able to get the community to turn on him.  I kind of assumed that being SP after Brenlo was a job that was impossible to screw up.  The expectations were already so low and some players were so glad to see Brenlo leave after the rough year we had - its just crazy to see how the community perception of Smokejumper has 180'd so fast.</p></blockquote><p>He's still better than Brenlo and I still don't see him as being bad. He's been fairly straightforward, I just disagree with his point of view on RMT.</p>

[Munu]

<p>Well nearly lunchtime at SoE HQ and still no reply..... I am starting to think they meant this =(</p>

[Melanchol]

of course they meant it. When smokeblower said that "live servers would be unaffected", he really meant "live servers will appear unnaffected according to the patch notes" i mean, so technically, he told the truth. right? right?

[Jinksie]

<p>This mount change is also on Oasis. I was surprised to see the standard mounts in Marketplace last night. Curious if this will eventually be extended for other items...</p>

[Geothe]

<p><cite>Portree@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well nearly lunchtime at SoE HQ and still no reply..... I am starting to think they meant this =(</p></blockquote><p>While by this time, Smokejumper already has nearly half a dozen posts on the EQ2X boards just today.[Removed for Content].</p><p>Yeah, this change is just SoE trying to outdo itself on "how can we [Removed for Content] off the most people rapidly"</p>

[Valdaglerion]

<p><cite>Stylish wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Drastic changes in an established MMO = Disaster.</p><p>Always works that way.</p><p>Like the NGE, someone high up in the company made decisions on this one that has NEVER played an MMO.</p></blockquote><p>Smokejumper's background is console gaming. I am not implying these recent decisions were his alone and were not in the works prior to him but I dont think he was able to make an experienced counter argument to the higher decision makers as to why this was a bad decision.</p><p>[EDIT to add] Geothe, you need to update the signature, says you are still waiting for Lie #3, we are well beyond that dont you think? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Guy De Alsace]

<p><cite>Melancholie@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>eq2x will not change live servers in any way. change we can believe in.</blockquote><p>Unless this is a genuine bug then its yet another in the long line of lies that SOE think is justified in using. Though here's hoping its a bug.</p><p>No red name? Shame on you guys.</p>

[threat111]

<p>One of my favorite dev quotes from days past.</p><p>"Everything is working as intended."</p>

[skruffs]

<p>Pretty sure being they totally mucked up the patch, this is just another error, and not all servers are reporting it. I cant imagine on the release they would remove content earned for sc items on live servers... just yet, wouldnt be the smartest move <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Geothe]

<p><cite>skruffs wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Pretty sure being they totally mucked up the patch, this is just another error, and not all servers are reporting it. I cant imagine on the release they would remove content earned for sc items on live servers... just yet, wouldnt be the smartest move <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />  </p></blockquote><p>The thing is, I dont see how it could be just "a random bug."For something like this to happen, means that there had to be a code change to move those mounts from regular merchants, to Station Cash, as well as station cash values actually assigned to those mounts.  Its not a simple "oops they vanished from the merchants" There was thought and effort invested to make the change somewhere.  That it is only happening on certain servers atm (is that actually the case?) I see more of an "oops" it sneaked out earlier than planned. But it WAS planned somewhere, for some reason, without a doubt.</p><p>And the fact that there is still redname silence on this topic shouts louder than words.</p>

[Cyliena]

<p>They were on the Everfrost marketplace last night. I glanced at them but it didn't click where they were from.</p>

[Barx]

<p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>skruffs wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Pretty sure being they totally mucked up the patch, this is just another error, and not all servers are reporting it. I cant imagine on the release they would remove content earned for sc items on live servers... just yet, wouldnt be the smartest move <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />  </p></blockquote><p>The thing is, I dont see how it could be just "a random bug."For something like this to happen, means that there had to be a code change to move those mounts from regular merchants, to Station Cash, as well as station cash values actually assigned to those mounts.  Its not a simple "oops they vanished from the merchants" There was thought and effort invested to make the change somewhere.  That it is only happening on certain servers atm (is that actually the case?) I see more of an "oops" it sneaked out earlier than planned. But it WAS planned somewhere, for some reason, without a doubt.</p><p>And the fact that there is still redname silence on this topic shouts louder than words.</p></blockquote><p>The effort was probably made for EQ2X, SOE just can't seem to keep the code bases properly separate.</p>

[Cobalt Knight]

<p style="margin-bottom: 0cm;">Snipped from Niami's Fan Faire 2010 Summary (<a href="http://eq2.eqtraders.com/articles/article_page.php?article=g433&menustr=040000000000">http://eq2.eqtraders.com/articles/a...tr=040000000000</a>)</p><p style="margin-bottom: 0cm;"> </p><p style="margin-bottom: 0cm;">     <span style="text-decoration: underline;">EQ2 Question & Answer Panel #1</span> </p><p style="margin-bottom: 0cm;">     A request was made for mount appearance slot items. They'd love to do so, but don't have a timeline for it.</p><p style="margin-bottom: 0cm;">     (Smokejumper said "yes", so it looks likely ... eventually.)</p><p style="margin-bottom: 0cm;"> </p><p style="margin-bottom: 0cm;">Coincidence??</p><p style="margin-bottom: 0cm;">I think not. Sounds to me that they are working on the mount appearance slot, figured that loads of people would want to replace the look of the ugly disc mounts that they have bought for speed, figured that they would want to do this by buying some of the older mounts with slower speeds but better appearance, then figured there is going to be money to be had by having all the good looking mounts on station ca$h rather than in-game merchants.</p>

[Aintdeadyet]

<p>I could use a real good ubber cloak. Maybe one will show up i the market place and save me all the work questing for it.</p>

[BlueEternal]

<p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Portree@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well nearly lunchtime at SoE HQ and still no reply..... I am starting to think they meant this =(</p></blockquote><p>While by this time, Smokejumper already has nearly half a dozen posts on the EQ2X boards just today.[Removed for Content].</p><p>Yeah, this change is just SoE trying to outdo itself on "how can we [Removed for Content] off the most people rapidly"</p></blockquote><p>I lol'd when I read this on the EQ2X boards. This is someones reply to his "city-themed" server.</p><p><cite>katalmach wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Smokejumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So, as you may have perused, the EQ2X server names are city-themed.</p><p>Naturally, we just had to pick Freeport as the first one...for way too many humorous and good reasons.</p></blockquote><p>Indeed. Freeport, according to official EQ2 lore is a "corrupt city in the grasp of an evil overlord".  An evil overlord who specializes in " incorporating just enough truth in what he says to make it seem believable while weaving elaborate lies designed to bind his subjects to his will". Yes, Freeport is indeed the PERFECT name for the EQ2Extended server! Most humorous.</p><p>(That said, the "Citizen's Guide to Freeport" specifically states that the city will not tolerate "deadbeats or mendicants" within its walls. How ironic!)</p></blockquote><p><span ></span></p>

[EQPrime]

<p>These are on Mistmoore as well.  I did find a blue flame nightmare horse still listed for plat & guild status, but all the SC mounts were there as well.</p>

[Kenrod]

<p>Judging by the lack of responses in this thread, must be working as intended. I was telling a buddy of mine that used to play what all has been done with this GU, and he just couldn't believe it. Called me a liar, actually.</p><p>Guess i'll tell him about this.</p><p>Oh, and hey SoE..we were planning on picking up DCUO and playing the hell out of it. Not anymore.</p>

[Laenai]

<p><cite>Nariox@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>katalmach wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Smokejumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So, as you may have perused, the EQ2X server names are city-themed.</p><p>Naturally, we just had to pick Freeport as the first one...for way too many humorous and good reasons.</p></blockquote><p>Indeed. Freeport, according to official EQ2 lore is a "corrupt city in the grasp of an evil overlord".  An evil overlord who specializes in " incorporating just enough truth in what he says to make it seem believable while weaving elaborate lies designed to bind his subjects to his will". Yes, Freeport is indeed the PERFECT name for the EQ2Extended server! Most humorous.</p><p>(That said, the "Citizen's Guide to Freeport" specifically states that the city will not tolerate "deadbeats or mendicants" within its walls. How ironic!)</p></blockquote><p><span></span></p></blockquote><p>That's an amazing reply. I just lol'd at my screen.</p>

[Xill]

<p>Starting to think this was intended. I know its only been a few hours since this thread popped up but I have seen numerous posts in the other threads since this showed up.</p><p>Anything at all?</p>

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>Same on Runnyeye. I'll give em 24 hours to acknowledge its a bug before yelling "liar liar" I guess.</p><p>Oh by the way - you guys seen the amazing looking armour on Station Cash? Yeah...thanks for spending time on the actual game there art guys.</p>

[Dreadpatch]

MO MONEY MO MONEY MO MONEY... HOPE IT ALL MAKES UP FOR THE LOST SUBS : (

[Melanchol]

it's after lunch and still no response.

[Melanchol]

sorry soe, you can;t make this post dissapear off of page 1 by refusing to acknowledge it.

[Castonu]

<p><cite>Durzin@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Judging by the lack of responses in this thread, must be working as intended. I was telling a buddy of mine that used to play what all has been done with this GU, and he just couldn't believe it. Called me a liar, actually.</p><p>Guess i'll tell him about this.</p><p>Oh, and hey SoE..we were planning on picking up DCUO and playing the hell out of it. Not anymore.</p></blockquote><p>SOE has already a black mark against it for what happened with SWG and many people that played there stated they would never buy another SOE game, ever. Well this is the EQ2 form of the NGE and I am thinking there are going to be a few more thousand people that will never, ever look at another SOE game again.</p><p>That new title...DCUO....The Agency....Everquest Next...well better hope that the RMT squad buys stuff because you may never get any subscribed players again.</p>

[Neiloch]

<p><cite>Karimonster wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Nariox@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>katalmach wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Smokejumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So, as you may have perused, the EQ2X server names are city-themed.</p><p>Naturally, we just had to pick Freeport as the first one...for way too many humorous and good reasons.</p></blockquote><p>Indeed. Freeport, according to official EQ2 lore is a "corrupt city in the grasp of an evil overlord".  An evil overlord who specializes in " incorporating just enough truth in what he says to make it seem believable while weaving elaborate lies designed to bind his subjects to his will". Yes, Freeport is indeed the PERFECT name for the EQ2Extended server! Most humorous.</p><p>(That said, the "Citizen's Guide to Freeport" specifically states that the city will not tolerate "deadbeats or mendicants" within its walls. How ironic!)</p></blockquote><p><span></span></p></blockquote><p>That's an amazing reply. I just lol'd at my screen.</p></blockquote><p>wow, they just pwned themselves with the games LORE of all things.</p><p>From a technical perspective this has to be one of the worst if not THE worst GU. Almost every single facet of it has some sort of ridiculous bug associated with it. We told them we don't want massive parts of this GU and EQ2X, insisted they were going to shove it down our throats anyway....and missed. It's almost like its out of a sitcom. I'm great with computers! computer immediately makes loud shattering and electrical noises and smoke comes out of it. Queue laugh track.</p><p>This GU is so embarrassing for them.</p>

[GrignakOw]

<p><cite>Castonu wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Durzin@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Judging by the lack of responses in this thread, must be working as intended. I was telling a buddy of mine that used to play what all has been done with this GU, and he just couldn't believe it. Called me a liar, actually.</p><p>Guess i'll tell him about this.</p><p>Oh, and hey SoE..we were planning on picking up DCUO and playing the hell out of it. Not anymore.</p></blockquote><p>SOE has already a black mark against it for what happened with SWG and many people that played there stated they would never buy another SOE game, ever. Well this is the EQ2 form of the NGE and I am thinking there are going to be a few more thousand people that will never, ever look at another SOE game again.</p><p>That new title...DCUO....The Agency....Everquest Next...well better hope that the RMT squad buys stuff because you may never get any subscribed players again.</p></blockquote><p>Thats my feeling exactly,my first MMO was SWG and after what they did to it I let it go because I didnt know the things I do now.They're already having me question if I should continue my subscription because as it stands and the way it looks this company doesnt care about the people who are loyal to their product.</p>

[Cyliena]

<p><cite>Karimonster wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Nariox@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>katalmach wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Smokejumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So, as you may have perused, the EQ2X server names are city-themed.</p><p>Naturally, we just had to pick Freeport as the first one...for way too many humorous and good reasons.</p></blockquote><p>Indeed. Freeport, according to official EQ2 lore is a "corrupt city in the grasp of an evil overlord".  An evil overlord who specializes in " incorporating just enough truth in what he says to make it seem believable while weaving elaborate lies designed to bind his subjects to his will". Yes, Freeport is indeed the PERFECT name for the EQ2Extended server! Most humorous.</p><p>(That said, the "Citizen's Guide to Freeport" specifically states that the city will not tolerate "deadbeats or mendicants" within its walls. How ironic!)</p></blockquote><p><span></span></p></blockquote><p>That's an amazing reply. I just lol'd at my screen.</p></blockquote><p>I must admit I lol'd as well, even if I care less whether or not the eq2x servers exist. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Senya]

<p>/sigh.  From Crushbone server: </p><p><img src="http://i1026.photobucket.com/albums/y323/EQ2-Jaylah/EQ2_000002.jpg" /></p>

[Neiloch]

<p>I heard they were going to sell the SC mounts through NPC mount merchants, like add them to the list. I wasn't aware they were going to make some of the current mounts SC only. So basically if you remove SC mounts from the equation, people paying plat have LESS mounts to choose from now.</p>

[Xill]

<p>Lol, so this is right off the bat with EQ2X. Imagine how much farther this is going to go, and with this pace...</p>

[Gaige]

<p>Smokejumper needs to post here and say its intended, since this entire mess is his baby.  He of Gaia Online and the RMT.</p><p>Why. Did. You. Make. In-Game. Mounts. SC. Only. On. Live. Servers?</p>

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>I put a thread in the EQ2X forums as well about this in the vain hope someone who could answer would see it. No reply as yet.</p><p>If this is as intended you just have to laugh at how crass SOE is. Its like they are treating us like village idiots or something.</p>

[Laenai]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Smokejumper needs to post here and say its intended, since this entire mess is his baby.  He of Gaia Online and the RMT.</p><p>Why. Did. You. Make. In-Game. Mounts. SC. Only. On. Live. Servers?</p></blockquote><p>/agree</p><p>Cowboy up, Dave. Stop patting yourself on the back in your EQ2X forums.</p>

[Xill]

<p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I put a thread in the EQ2X forums as well about this in the vain hope someone who could answer would see it. No reply as yet.</p><p>If this is as intended you just have to laugh at how crass SOE is. Its like they are treating us like village idiots or something.</p></blockquote><p>This isnt directed at you (not really anyways...) but anyone with an active sub that doesnt like these changes NEEDS TO CANCEL THE SUB. Otherwise... you are a village idiot. Take this like a test. They just smacked you in the face... and then didnt apologize and just stood staring at you. Are you going to let them smack you again? Because if you do they will just start beating you.</p>

[Neiloch]

<p>Just get those guys some tailored pants to accommodate their gigantic chrome plated balls. Items we could buy with plat not more than a week ago, are now made cash shop only. I just keep repeating this concept in my head getting madder and madder. How can you possibly justify this? Let me guess more 'no ones using them anymore' BS like they did with the trials?</p>

[Riale]

<p>This is a pretty huge deal, and I'm surprised not more attention has been brought to it.</p><p>As a new player I was somewhat apprehensive about the new, larger focus on the station store, but I figured I could live with it as long as it didn't protrude into my gameplay. To take content that was created for subscribing players and had been available for quite some time, remove it, and then ask you to pay real money to access it disgusts me. This is only doubled by the complete lack of communication. Those who may have wanted to purchase the mounts had no warning, and now are unable to unless they want to fork over real dollars.</p><p>These kind of changes demonstrate a terrible slipperly slope. I wonder how long it will be before gear 'accidentally' ends up available for SC on live servers, despite any protests to the contrary.</p>

[Bre]

<p>Doing this is just wrong, and simply insulting to your subscribers.</p><p>Oh, and don't forget the new consumables you can get for RMT.  Tracking scrolls, runspeed scrolls, scrolls to summon players, and in-combat evac potions.  Get these gameplay affecting RMT items off the live servers, and keep them in the Extended experiment where they belong, please.</p>

[Xill]

<p><cite>Brend wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Doing this is just wrong, and simply insulting to your subscribers.</p><p>Oh, and don't forget the new consumables you can get for RMT.  <strong>Tracking scrolls, runspeed scrolls, scrolls to summon players, and in-combat evac potions</strong>.  Get these gameplay affecting RMT items off the live servers, and keep them in the Extended experiment where they belong, please.</p></blockquote><p>Im at work and cant access the game. This stuff is on live currently?</p>

[Kardokis]

<p><cite>Riale wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I wonder how long it will be before gear 'accidentally' ends up available for SC on live servers, despite any protests to the contrary.</p></blockquote><p>Weren't here yesterday, I take it?</p>

[Neiloch]

<p><cite>Xill wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Brend wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Doing this is just wrong, and simply insulting to your subscribers.</p><p>Oh, and don't forget the new consumables you can get for RMT.  <strong>Tracking scrolls, runspeed scrolls, scrolls to summon players, and in-combat evac potions</strong>.  Get these gameplay affecting RMT items off the live servers, and keep them in the Extended experiment where they belong, please.</p></blockquote><p>Im at work and cant access the game. This stuff is on live currently?</p></blockquote><p>Yes.</p>

[Munu]

<p>Just went and checked for myself.... You can indeed see mounts for sale using SC at the city stable vendor, SQ in Splitpaw anyways.</p><p>THIS IS SOMETHING SMOKEJUMPER EXPLICITLY PROMISED WOULD NOT HAPPEN ON LIVE SERVERS</p><p>"<span style="text-decoration: underline;"><em><span ><span style="color: #ff0000;">Your world will stay the way it has been</span> and we will continue to support it with new content, items, etc."</span></em></span></p><p>Smokejumper promised us that we wouldn't see any RMT on these live servers outside the usual marketplace fluff stuff.</p><p>I've had enough... I play a game I reallly enjoy, I have friends here and I don't want to play another game.  But frankly your not leaving us much option, and your word means absolutely nothing Smokejumper. NOTHING!</p><p>Unfortunately I have just resubbed. Unless this disgusting display of arrogance, incompetence and utter disregard for your customers drastically changes before my sub runs out, I won't be giving this game or any other SOE game my custom ever again... after 11 years of buying SOE products.</p>

[Dreadpatch]

PS all sorts of Smokejumper activity over on the EQ2 Extendz forums. Makes you feel kind of good as a customer doesn't it? I just went and checked it out. Lame, also no link back to Live forums.

[Neiloch]

<p>I just went and checked too. Seems all the people wanting free stuff are showering him with affection atm.</p>

[Senya]

<p><cite>Xill wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Brend wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Doing this is just wrong, and simply insulting to your subscribers.</p><p>Oh, and don't forget the new consumables you can get for RMT.  <strong>Tracking scrolls, runspeed scrolls, scrolls to summon players, and in-combat evac potions</strong>.  Get these gameplay affecting RMT items off the live servers, and keep them in the Extended experiment where they belong, please.</p></blockquote><p>Im at work and cant access the game. This stuff is on live currently?</p></blockquote><p>Yep. </p><p><img src="http://i1026.photobucket.com/albums/y323/EQ2-Jaylah/EQ2_000003-1.jpg" /></p>

[Tylia]

<p>It's the same on Kithicor.  Unfortunately, if this turns out to be "working as intended", neither my husband nor I will be renewing our subs.  (It's really a shame too, he just got his CoV a few days ago <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /> )</p><p>Edit: Grammar mistake.</p>

[Odys]

<p>Will we soon see fabled molt drops that will be to exchanged for SC cash to some NPC?</p><p>Will the loot move from instances to SC merchants ?</p><p>I pay 15$ a month to play, i could pay a bit more but i want a game in which you progress doing things, not by buying sc crap.</p><p>This transfert of  mount from normal to SC is very alarming. Indeed it's a FIRST occurence of an item removed and put in SC only.</p>

[skruffs]

<p>They did say they where gonna keep the sc shop from eq extended seperate from live, so i still gotta think that removing earned mounts over to SC mounts only has to be a mistake, however the lack of responce is getting me a tad worried <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Glenolas]

<p><cite>Bluescreen404 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So I logged in this evening after the patch and found my War-Barded Black Cavalry Horse whistle had mysteriously become unattuned and Fabled.  Odd.  I also noticed that the Marketplace now has a "Standard Mounts" tab... and that same horse is now available to buy for 1250 Smedbucks, along with the black-saddled blue-flame Nightmare and the black-saddled two-toned warg.  Smelling a rat, I checked the Stable merchant in Gorowyn and Neriak...</p><p>Lo and behold, the black cavalry horse, blue-flame Nightmare, and the warg are all no longer available for plat and status like they were before.  They are now SC-only.  In fact, nearly every single variant of the blue fiery Nightmare horse is now gone as well from the horse dealer, not available for plat OR StationCash!  I'm on Lucan D'Lere, not an Extended server, so this is more than a little upsetting to see.  Ok, understatement -- I was raging into /gu for a good 20 minutes at seeing them actually *take items away* from us on the P2P Live servers and suddenly start requiring cold hard cash for them!  Not only are these non-fluff items on the Marketplace on a Live server, but they are items that used to be earnable with plat and status, now gone.  This is taking removal of content to a whole new sleazy level. </p></blockquote><p>Out of curiosity, and since I own among other things the white version of your black War-Barded Calvary horse, I visited the mount merchant in SQ here on Guk.</p><p>Sure enough, there's your Black for 1250 smedbucks,  but my White is there for plat and status.  I hunted around for my whistle, and it still works.</p><p>I was disgusted to see the Nightmares were also smedbucks now.   Of course, I  was disgusted when Smokejumpers first official act as SP was to sell the cat mounts for  2500 smedbucks in lieu of making them a quested item in a game content starved at the upper levels.    Why put in a long string of quests for peeps to do when you can just sell the items?</p><p>I'm on GUK.   Last time I looked it wasn't and exchange server,  but is now, at least for mounts.  Sort of a sneak it in, don't put it patch notes.  </p><p>I've been here since beta,  have a lot of time invested, but it may be time to move on.     The zero content of this GU is probably the killer.   I'd hoped the SC problem would self destruct the same way as Free Realms has, but I can't sit around doing nothing until then.</p>

[BabyAngel]

<p><cite>Senya wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Xill wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Brend wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Doing this is just wrong, and simply insulting to your subscribers.</p><p>Oh, and don't forget the new consumables you can get for RMT.  <strong>Tracking scrolls, runspeed scrolls, scrolls to summon players, and in-combat evac potions</strong>.  Get these gameplay affecting RMT items off the live servers, and keep them in the Extended experiment where they belong, please.</p></blockquote><p>Im at work and cant access the game. This stuff is on live currently?</p></blockquote><p>Yep. </p><p><img src="http://i1026.photobucket.com/albums/y323/EQ2-Jaylah/EQ2_000003-1.jpg" /></p></blockquote><p><img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I haave seen all the others before but the tracking one is just <img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Gaige]

<p>Well since they're ignoring this thread its obviously intended, which means I'm obviously going to have to cancel.</p>

[Munu]

<p>I have to agree with you Gaige.... they were very quick to post when threads emerged about things that they cosidered bugs, eg. the xp bonus thing and the class change bug. They also pulled the plugs on the international servers as soon as they realised the MC armour for RMT bug.</p><p>The fact that they have not done likewise for this thread, and not even paid us the courtsey of a reply speaks volumes.....</p><p>This was no bug.</p>

[Guy De Alsace]

<p><cite>Xill wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I put a thread in the EQ2X forums as well about this in the vain hope someone who could answer would see it. No reply as yet.</p><p>If this is as intended you just have to laugh at how crass SOE is. Its like they are treating us like village idiots or something.</p></blockquote><p>This isnt directed at you (not really anyways...) but anyone with an active sub that doesnt like these changes NEEDS TO CANCEL THE SUB. Otherwise... you are a village idiot. Take this like a test. They just smacked you in the face... and then didnt apologize and just stood staring at you. Are you going to let them smack you again? Because if you do they will just start beating you.</p></blockquote><p>I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt for 24 hours. They are so busy back patting on the free forums I think they forgot Live exists. Suprising that...</p>

[Alenna]

<p><cite>Glenolas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Bluescreen404 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So I logged in this evening after the patch and found my War-Barded Black Cavalry Horse whistle had mysteriously become unattuned and Fabled.  Odd.  I also noticed that the Marketplace now has a "Standard Mounts" tab... and that same horse is now available to buy for 1250 Smedbucks, along with the black-saddled blue-flame Nightmare and the black-saddled two-toned warg.  Smelling a rat, I checked the Stable merchant in Gorowyn and Neriak...</p><p>Lo and behold, the black cavalry horse, blue-flame Nightmare, and the warg are all no longer available for plat and status like they were before.  They are now SC-only.  In fact, nearly every single variant of the blue fiery Nightmare horse is now gone as well from the horse dealer, not available for plat OR StationCash!  I'm on Lucan D'Lere, not an Extended server, so this is more than a little upsetting to see.  Ok, understatement -- I was raging into /gu for a good 20 minutes at seeing them actually *take items away* from us on the P2P Live servers and suddenly start requiring cold hard cash for them!  Not only are these non-fluff items on the Marketplace on a Live server, but they are items that used to be earnable with plat and status, now gone.  This is taking removal of content to a whole new sleazy level. </p></blockquote><p>Out of curiosity, and since I own among other things the white version of your black War-Barded Calvary horse, I visited the mount merchant in SQ here on Guk.</p><p>Sure enough, there's your Black for 1250 smedbucks,  but my White is there for plat and status.  I hunted around for my whistle, and it still works.</p><p>I was disgusted to see the Nightmares were also smedbucks now.   Of course, I  was disgusted when Smokejumpers first official act as SP was to sell the cat mounts for  2500 smedbucks in lieu of making them a quested item in a game content starved at the upper levels.    Why put in a long string of quests for peeps to do when you can just sell the items?</p><p>I'm on GUK.   Last time I looked it wasn't and exchange server,  but is now, at least for mounts.  Sort of a sneak it in, don't put it patch notes.  </p><p>I've been here since beta,  have a lot of time invested, but it may be time to move on.     The zero content of this GU is probably the killer.   I'd hoped the SC problem would self destruct the same way as Free Realms has, but I can't sit around doing nothing until then.</p></blockquote><p>Thank you for confirming this for for me I am with out my gaming computer till at least the weekend most likly some time next week and have been hoping it wasn't so on Guk looks like another lie from $oE sigh.</p>

[Zorastiz]

<p>The nightmare mounts used to be like a status item, I remember the first time I saw one I had to work my POSTERIOR off to get it, now it is available for RL cash eh?</p><p>Not surprised I guess /sad</p>

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>Shareana just locked my thread on the extended forums. Well there you have it folks. This is intended and a promise broken literally <em>hours</em> after EQ2X went live.</p><p>Smoke, I know you couldnt give a pair of bats testicles what any of us think but if anyone believes a single word you say from now on they are a naive fool.</p><p>Can you at least have the stones to say this was intended or are you too scared even to do that?</p>

[Shareana]

<p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Shareana just locked my thread on the extended forums. Well there you have it folks. This is intended and a promise broken literally <em>hours</em> after EQ2X went live.</p><p>Smoke, I know you couldnt give a pair of bats testicles what any of us think but if anyone believes a single word you say from now on they are a naive fool.</p><p>Can you at least have the stones to say this was intended or are you too scared even to do that?</p></blockquote><p>I locked the thread over there since this is about the mounts on EQ2 live servers (not on the EQ2X servers).</p><p>I do not know if this is WAI or a bug.  I have been told nothing.  I am just trying to keep it all together for easy access in case the developers wish to post.</p>

[Dreadpatch]

<p><cite>Shareana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Shareana just locked my thread on the extended forums. Well there you have it folks. This is intended and a promise broken literally <em>hours</em> after EQ2X went live.</p><p>Smoke, I know you couldnt give a pair of bats testicles what any of us think but if anyone believes a single word you say from now on they are a naive fool.</p><p>Can you at least have the stones to say this was intended or are you too scared even to do that?</p></blockquote><p>I locked the thread over there since this is about the mounts on EQ2 live servers (not on the EQ2X servers).</p><p>I do not know if this is WAI or a bug.  I have been told nothing.  I am just trying to keep it all together for easy access in case the developers wish to post.</p></blockquote><p>The line is so blurry between the two quote "different" games how can you tell?  Just curious....</p>

[Melanchol]

<p><cite>Elusion@Nektulos wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shareana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Shareana just locked my thread on the extended forums. Well there you have it folks. This is intended and a promise broken literally <em>hours</em> after EQ2X went live.</p><p>Smoke, I know you couldnt give a pair of bats testicles what any of us think but if anyone believes a single word you say from now on they are a naive fool.</p><p>Can you at least have the stones to say this was intended or are you too scared even to do that?</p></blockquote><p>I locked the thread over there since this is about the mounts on EQ2 live servers (not on the EQ2X servers).</p><p>I do not know if this is WAI or a bug.  I have been told nothing.  I am just trying to keep it all together for easy access in case the developers wish to post.</p></blockquote><p>The line is so blurry between the two quote "different" games how can you tell?  Just curious....</p></blockquote><p>this is an excellent question.</p>

[Neiloch]

<p>Well considering some other stuff got put in too soon or wasn't supposed to go in, maybe this was part of a future patch to further ease in people but did it too soon lol. Called "GU: FU"</p>

[SmokeJumper]

<p>The mounts are going to be replaced back into the vendors (stable masters). That will occur in Tuesday's hotfix.</p><p>They'll still be available as Standard Mounts in the marketplace also, but will be available at their regular plat/status prices in the vendors as well.</p><p>NOTE: Since there are actually two instances of those mounts, when you're looking at the stable master, you'll see one entry for plat/status, and one entry for SC. Choose whichever one you desire.</p>

[Melanchol]

wow. way to come in here and calm people's fears. .. or not.

[Guy De Alsace]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The mounts are going to be replaced back into the vendors (stable masters). That will occur in Tuesday's hotfix.</p><p>They'll still be available as Standard Mounts in the marketplace also, but will be available at their regular plat/status prices in the vendors as well.</p><p>NOTE: Since there are actually two instances of those mounts, when you're looking at the stable master, you'll see one entry for plat/status, and one entry for SC. Choose whichever one you desire.</p></blockquote><p>Well, I can say thank you for ponying up. Some credit goes your way.</p>

[Silverpaws]

<p>nvm</p>

[SmokeJumper]

<p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well, I can say thank you for ponying up. Some credit goes your way.</p></blockquote><p>Is that a pun?</p>

[Munu]

<p>Sorry Smokejumper...</p><p>This thread has not only been discussing your attempt to remove content fron live servers and sell it for RMT, but also the breaking of your clear promise to the live server community that we would not see items for sale for SC outside the marketplace browser. You have broken this promise on the first day of EQ2X. THE FIRST DAY!!</p><p>While I welcome the fact that you have decided to replace the content you removed from the game, that is only one part of our huge concern about broken promises and the future of our live server RMT free environment.</p>

[Gaige]

<p>Can we have an answer about the tracking, evac, summon and runspeed consumables that made it onto the Live SC stores?</p>

[Melanchol]

good luck gaige, it took 7 paged to get smokejumper to even take time from his back padding on eq2eXtendZ forums to come grace us with a piddly post

[LardLord]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Anyway lol, if this is intended I will be absolutely 100% impressed with how fast Smokejumper was able to get the community to turn on him.  I kind of assumed that being SP after Brenlo was a job that was impossible to screw up.  The expectations were already so low and some players were so glad to see Brenlo leave after the rough year we had - its just crazy to see how the community perception of Smokejumper has 180'd so fast.</p></blockquote><p>I'll love Smokey as long as AB doesn't lag, heh.</p>

[Rijacki]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The mounts are going to be replaced back into the vendors (stable masters). That will occur in Tuesday's hotfix.</p><p>They'll still be available as Standard Mounts in the marketplace also, but will be available at their regular plat/status prices in the vendors as well.</p><p>NOTE: Since there are actually two instances of those mounts, when you're looking at the stable master, you'll see one entry for plat/status, and one entry for SC. Choose whichever one you desire.</p></blockquote><p>Many of those mounts have bonuses aside from the runspeed far in excess of the mounts which were available on the Marketplace or LON prior to the GU. In previous statements this was something declared, by you, that wouldn't be done (increased stat items).</p><p>Is this method intended to be used to slide the stats items on to the subscription servers' Marketplace? (or didn't you realise those mounts had stats?)</p><p>Or is this another bug like the EU servers having MC gear on the Marketplace? is the decision to keep both the plat items and SC items a way to 'cover' for the unintended flub after the fact? if so, then it took a lot less than 3 months to start the "accidental" Marketplace merge *sigh*</p><p>I wonder what other items are -now- on the Marketplace "accidentally". With this trend, I fear, a lot more will get merged. I was probably wrong to have gotten any optimism from Fan Faire over this whole thing.</p>

[SmokeJumper]

<p><cite>Portree@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Sorry Smokejumper...</p><p>This thread has not only been discussing your attempt to remove content fron live servers and sell it for RMT, but also the breaking of your clear promise to the live server community that we would not see items for sale for SC outside the marketplace browser. You have broken this promise on the first day of EQ2X. THE FIRST DAY!!</p><p>While I welcome the fact that you have decided to replace the content you removed from the game, that is only one part of our huge concern about broken promises and the future of our live server RMT free environment.</p></blockquote><p>Never said that. Sorry that you heard it that way.</p><p>I've never said that we wouldn't sell items, either with stats or not. I did go on record as saying that the one of the main reasons we set up a separate service was that our current EQII Live players didn't want items with stats associated with them in the marketplace.</p><p>But mounts have always been excluded from that discussion because they already exist on the marketplace, and these particular mounts are a) already in the game, and b) don't have stats as good as the other ones we already sell.</p><p>No promises were broken here.</p>

[SmokeJumper]

<p><cite>Melancholie@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>good luck gaige, it took 7 paged to get smokejumper to even take time from his back padding on eq2eXtendZ forums to come grace us with a piddly post</blockquote><p>Please check the dev tracker. Dev team members have been posting all day, myself included.</p>

[Melanchol]

<p>so this is the way it works now huh? you take something away and give it to $C against your promises. then you give it back to the players, acting like you listened to their pleas, but you keep the $C too. end result? you get your $C that you promised you wouldn;t do, and you think you look like a compassionate hero for giving us back something YOU took away. does not compute.</p>

[Melanchol]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Melancholie@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>good luck gaige, it took 7 paged to get smokejumper to even take time from his back padding on eq2eXtendZ forums to come grace us with a piddly post</blockquote><p>Please check the dev tracker. Dev team members have been posting all day, myself included.</p></blockquote><p>ok so you're here. can you answer gaige's question then?</p>

[Nuhus]

<p>Wow, SOE sunk lower than expected. SJ, runspeed out of combat = fluff stats that benifit you in combat = not fluff.</p><p>Anyways. I'm for sure out. Good luck with selling all your crap.</p>

[SmokeJumper]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Can we have an answer about the tracking, evac, summon and runspeed consumables that made it onto the Live SC stores?</p></blockquote><p>There's nothing underhanded about those items. They're just items and most of them aren't even new. They're not EQ2X-specific, and in fact, most of them have been in the marketplace for some time now. (The Tracking potion is the only new one that appeared today.)</p>

[Tylia]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The mounts are going to be replaced back into the vendors (stable masters). That will occur in Tuesday's hotfix.</p><p>They'll still be available as Standard Mounts in the marketplace also, but will be available at their regular plat/status prices in the vendors as well.</p><p>NOTE: Since there are actually two instances of those mounts, when you're looking at the stable master, you'll see one entry for plat/status, and one entry for SC. Choose whichever one you desire.</p></blockquote><p>This only "fixes" part of the problem.  A complete solution would be to <strong>remove</strong> the option to purchase these mounts with SC from live servers altogether.  I see this as a sneaky and "convenient" way to add these items for purchase to live servers.  This time it was mounts.  What will "mistakenly" appear next time?  Sorry SoE.. you have lost 2 more monthly subscriptions.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There's nothing underhanded about those items.</p><p>(The Tracking potion is the only new one that appeared today.)</p></blockquote><p>Its also the main one I have a problem with.  Tracking is an ability that affects the game.  IE not fluff.</p><p>Anyways I guess we'll agree to disagree about the underhanded thing.  To me you're putting things on Live's SC store that don't belong there and in fact things you said wouldn't be put there which was the reason the services were separate.</p><p>I don't like the mount thing and pretty much loathe the tracking thing so I suppose you win.  Have fun with your vision of EQ2 sir.</p>

[SmokeJumper]

<p><cite>Tylia@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The mounts are going to be replaced back into the vendors (stable masters). That will occur in Tuesday's hotfix.</p><p>They'll still be available as Standard Mounts in the marketplace also, but will be available at their regular plat/status prices in the vendors as well.</p><p>NOTE: Since there are actually two instances of those mounts, when you're looking at the stable master, you'll see one entry for plat/status, and one entry for SC. Choose whichever one you desire.</p></blockquote><p>This only "fixes" part of the problem.  A complete solution would be to <strong>remove</strong> the option to purchase these mounts with SC from live servers altogether.  I see this as a sneaky and "convenient" way to add these items for purchase to live servers.  This time it was mounts.  What will "mistakenly" appear next time?  Sorry SoE.. you have lost 2 more monthly subscriptions.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>I'm a bit mystified why allowing people to have an additional acquisition path for these mounts would upset you. Can you help me out by explaining how this impacts your gameplay in any way?</p>

[Qanyena]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There's nothing underhanded about those items.</p><p>(The Tracking potion is the only new one that appeared today.)</p></blockquote><p>Its also the main one I have a problem with.  Tracking is an ability that affects the game.  IE not fluff.</p><p>Anyways I guess we'll agree to disagree about the underhanded thing.  To me you're putting things on Live's SC store that don't belong there and in fact things you said wouldn't be put there which was the reason the services were separate.</p><p>I don't like the mount thing and pretty much loathe the tracking thing so I suppose you win.  Have fun with your vision of EQ2 sir.</p></blockquote><p>Agree 150% or is that 300% with all the bs potions Ive been crammed. 6 years later time to go back to playing solitair. I'm out soon as my 3 accounts subs expire. Canceling them out night before. So long Smokejumper and Smed</p>

[Nuhus]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tylia@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The mounts are going to be replaced back into the vendors (stable masters). That will occur in Tuesday's hotfix.</p><p>They'll still be available as Standard Mounts in the marketplace also, but will be available at their regular plat/status prices in the vendors as well.</p><p>NOTE: Since there are actually two instances of those mounts, when you're looking at the stable master, you'll see one entry for plat/status, and one entry for SC. Choose whichever one you desire.</p></blockquote><p>This only "fixes" part of the problem.  A complete solution would be to <strong>remove</strong> the option to purchase these mounts with SC from live servers altogether.  I see this as a sneaky and "convenient" way to add these items for purchase to live servers.  This time it was mounts.  What will "mistakenly" appear next time?  Sorry SoE.. you have lost 2 more monthly subscriptions.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>I'm a bit mystified why allowing people to have an additional acquisition path for these mounts would upset you. Can you help me out by explaining how this impacts your gameplay in any way?</p></blockquote><p>How does selling a mythical through impact peoples game play?</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm a bit mystified why allowing people to have an additional acquisition path for these mounts would upset you. Can you help me out by explaining how this impacts your gameplay in any way?</p></blockquote><p>I'm not her, but I'll give my viewpoint, take it or leave it:</p><p>Some of us have been playing this game since beta.  We have certain expectations.  One of those is that players need to earn their way.  I personally don't like players using their wallets to progress in this game.  It brings real life into my hobby in a way that it never did before.</p><p>These mounts were previously only available via plat and status.  Things you have to acquire in-game through progressing your toon.  You've now totally done away with that and said "Hey you, Mr. Rich Guy, want this mount but don't have enough status and plat, refuse to play the game as intended, no problem dude we take VISA!"</p><p>Sure its <em>only</em> a mount but EQ2's short history shows that when you guys get an inch you take about 13,000 miles.  Nothing makes me believe this will be the first thing this happens to.  Eventually what is to stop you from saying "Hey you, Mr. Rich Guy, want this BP but don't have the ability to kill Rhoen Theer - no problem dude we take VISA!"</p><p>You have SC mounts already.  Why take in-game mounts and add them there too, totally circumventing the need to actually play the game?  What is wrong with people acquiring status and plat if they want a nightmare?  If they want to give you money sell them one of the exclusive SC mounts you already offer.</p><p>You said, and I guess its my fault for believing you, that EQ2x was separate so things like this wouldn't happen.  I know you think our opinions are silly, but they matter to us.  I haven't paid SOE thousands or real life dollars on subs and expansions because I don't care about the game, quite the opposite.</p><p>My only response to you is that if you can't understand why we're passionate about these things maybe you aren't very well suited to leading this team.  I have 100% confidence in your ability to build and grow EQ2x given your experience with RMT but I really doubt your ability to stay true to the history of the real EQ2 and the decisions and explanations you've made since coming here really don't ease my mind at all, and I so badly wish they did.</p>

[Myster]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tylia@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The mounts are going to be replaced back into the vendors (stable masters). That will occur in Tuesday's hotfix.</p><p>They'll still be available as Standard Mounts in the marketplace also, but will be available at their regular plat/status prices in the vendors as well.</p><p>NOTE: Since there are actually two instances of those mounts, when you're looking at the stable master, you'll see one entry for plat/status, and one entry for SC. Choose whichever one you desire.</p></blockquote><p>This only "fixes" part of the problem.  A complete solution would be to <strong>remove</strong> the option to purchase these mounts with SC from live servers altogether.  I see this as a sneaky and "convenient" way to add these items for purchase to live servers.  This time it was mounts.  What will "mistakenly" appear next time?  Sorry SoE.. you have lost 2 more monthly subscriptions.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>I'm a bit mystified why allowing people to have an additional acquisition path for these mounts would upset you. Can you help me out by explaining how this impacts your gameplay in any way?</p></blockquote><p>I'ma  bit mystified as well.</p><p>By your responses.</p><p>How does having mastercrafted gear on the marketplace impact your gameplay in any way?</p><p>How does having other statted gear on the marketplace impact your gameplay in any way?</p><p>Potion that auto-buffs you to level 90 with 250 AAs?</p><p>That raid gear you always wanted but couldn't get?</p><p>Those types of things you said were going to be kept seperate on a different server ruleset. (Which i don't believe will stay that way anyway). So why are mounts with stats any different than the other items? it's just additional acquisition path right?</p><p>And just to be clear. I'm against the whole concept of the Marketplace and EQ2extended. I never wanted marketplace at all and am still upset it's even here. This GU and recent changes have canceled my Station Access account as well.</p>

[shadowscale]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm a bit mystified why allowing people to have an additional acquisition path for these mounts would upset you. Can you help me out by explaining how this impacts your gameplay in any way?</p></blockquote><p>I'm not her, but I'll give my viewpoint, take it or leave it:</p><p>Some of us have been playing this game since beta.  We have certain expectations.  One of those is that players need to earn their way.  I personally don't like players using their wallets to progress in this game.  It brings real life into my hobby in a way that it never did before.</p><p>These mounts were previously only available via plat and status.  Things you have to acquire in-game through progressing your toon.  You've now totally done away with that and said "Hey you, Mr. Rich Guy, want this mount but don't have enough status and plat, refuse to play the game as intended, no problem dude we take VISA!"</p><p>Sure its <em>only</em> a mount but EQ2's short history shows that when you guys get an inch you take about 13,000 miles.  Nothing makes me believe this will be the first thing this happens to.  Eventually what is to stop you from saying "Hey you, Mr. Rich Guy, want this BP but don't have the ability to kill Rhoen Theer - no problem dude we take VISA!"</p><p>You have SC mounts already.  Why take in-game mounts and add them there too, totally circumventing the need to actually play the game?  What is wrong with people acquiring status and plat if they want a nightmare?  If they want to give you money sell them one of the exclusive SC mounts you already offer.</p><p>You said, and I guess its my fault for believing you, that EQ2x was separate so things like this wouldn't happen.  I know you think our opinions are silly, but they matter to us.  I haven't paid SOE thousands or real life dollars on subs and expansions because I don't care about the game, quite the opposite.</p><p>My only response to you is that if you can't understand why we're passionate about these things maybe you aren't very well suited to leading this team.  I have 100% confidence in your ability to build and grow EQ2x given your experience with RMT but I really doubt your ability to stay true to the history of the real EQ2 and the decisions and explanations you've made since coming here really don't ease my mind at all, and I so badly wish they did.</p></blockquote><p>will second this statement, your oversteping your bounderys off the extended server here smokejumper, if you cant see that then well... i guess it doesent matter as long as the income stays flowing, it wont matter how many quit will it?</p><p>give a free option for people who dont mind this to just move to extended, leave the older servers free of this stuff.</p>

[Munu]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We did not change your subscription service. Everquest II Extended (EQ2X) is a completely separate service.</p><p>Different forums. Different servers. <span style="color: #ff0000;">If you want to keep playing the way you wish to play, then there is no difference whatsoever. You don't even have to be aware of it (well...after today anyway).</span></p><p>We're not changing the existing EQII Live subscription service at all.</p></blockquote><p><cite>mokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Fyfe@Najena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1. EQX is going to have their own servers? This does not help the population on the existing servers at all. Please look into integrating this on all servers.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">We specifically separated the services because feedback from you folks has always been that the bulk of existing players would <em><span style="text-decoration: underline;">hate having the free-to-play marketplace items on their worlds.</span></em> That they want players to have to earn everything in order to succeed.</span></p><p>I'm afraid we just have to leave them separate at this point.</p><p>We are going to be adding incentive programs to ensure the subscription service still stays attractive to players. We are leaving the Recruit a Friend functionality in place also.</p></blockquote><p> I found these 2 direct quotes in the first few pages of the EQ2X discussion thread.... I am sure I could find more if I was prepared to spend more time finding them. These aren't quotes made by other people on what you might or might not have said, they are direct quotes from your own posts.</p><p>You did make promises and even if you don't agree promises were broken, your customers cetainly feel that you have been less than honest with them. Please either make a decision to roll out the F2P to live servers or remove SC RMT from in game vendors.</p><p>Either way, I have lost faith in the integrity of this game and it's producers. You are going to have to work very hard to get that back for those that stay in this game. I don't know that I'll be one of them.</p><p>At the moment there is not one single subscriber on oone single live server that has logged into the game since this GU that ISN'T aware of EQ2X and it's impact on their game... not one!</p>

[Andok]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm a bit mystified why allowing people to have an additional acquisition path for these mounts would upset you. Can you help me out by explaining how this impacts your gameplay in any way?</p></blockquote><p>I'm not her, but I'll give my viewpoint, take it or leave it:</p><p>Some of us have been playing this game since beta.  We have certain expectations.  One of those is that players need to earn their way.  I personally don't like players using their wallets to progress in this game.  It brings real life into my hobby in a way that it never did before.</p></blockquote><p>I just want to add that people that claim "players need to earn their way" only mean that when it comes to buying items with real-life money.  They're fine with twinking alts, giving looting rights to folks that didn't kill a mob, selling epic updates to non-raiders, and every other way people get stuff in game without really "earning it".</p><p>Honestly, it always seemed like a class envy issue to me.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I just want to add that people that claim "players need to earn their way" only mean that when it comes to buying items with real-life money.  They're fine with twinking alts, giving looting rights to folks that didn't kill a mob, selling epic updates to non-raiders, and every other way people get stuff in game without really "earning it".</p><p>Honestly, it always seemed like a class envy issue to me.</p></blockquote><p>I'm fine with those things because each of them requires someone playing the game.</p><p>You can't sell loot rights without someone forming a raid and killing the mob, ie playing the game as intended.</p><p>you can't twink alts without someone playing the game and getting the items, ie playing the game as intended.</p><p>You can't sell epic updates to players without killing the mobs that update the epic quests, ie playing the game as intended.</p><p>All of those things require a player playing the game to earn in-game currency which they use to buy the service of other players who are accomplishing in-game tasks.</p><p>Those things have existed as long as MMOs have existed and are the foundation of the in-game economies of these persistent worlds.</p><p>What I'm talking about removes the playing the game as intended requirement and replaces it with pay SOE real life money.  That is what I and tons of other players have issue with.</p><p>For instance, everybody and their mother on Unrest can want to pay 5,000 plat for a Venomous Vest of the Godslayer off Evil Rhoen Theer, but nobody can buy it because no one on our server has killed that mob yet.  So the service doesn't exist.  If SOE sold those BPs on the SC store the in-game requirement would cease to exist.</p><p>Comparing them isn't the same.  One is part of playing MMOs and the other isn't.  The other in fact presents the opportunity to totally bypass playing the game at all.  It turns it into a glorified chat room where you can continually charge your VISA to outfit your "sim".</p>

[Giara]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm a bit mystified why allowing people to have an additional acquisition path for these mounts would upset you. Can you help me out by explaining how this impacts your gameplay in any way?</p></blockquote><p>I'm not her, but I'll give my viewpoint, take it or leave it:</p><p>Some of us have been playing this game since beta.  We have certain expectations.  One of those is that players need to earn their way.  I personally don't like players using their wallets to progress in this game.  It brings real life into my hobby in a way that it never did before.</p><p>These mounts were previously only available via plat and status.  Things you have to acquire in-game through progressing your toon.  You've now totally done away with that and said "Hey you, Mr. Rich Guy, want this mount but don't have enough status and plat, refuse to play the game as intended, no problem dude we take VISA!"</p><p>Sure its <em>only</em> a mount but EQ2's short history shows that when you guys get an inch you take about 13,000 miles.  Nothing makes me believe this will be the first thing this happens to.  Eventually what is to stop you from saying "Hey you, Mr. Rich Guy, want this BP but don't have the ability to kill Rhoen Theer - no problem dude we take VISA!"</p><p>You have SC mounts already.  Why take in-game mounts and add them there too, totally circumventing the need to actually play the game?  What is wrong with people acquiring status and plat if they want a nightmare?  If they want to give you money sell them one of the exclusive SC mounts you already offer.</p><p>You said, and I guess its my fault for believing you, that EQ2x was separate so things like this wouldn't happen.  I know you think our opinions are silly, but they matter to us.  I haven't paid SOE thousands or real life dollars on subs and expansions because I don't care about the game, quite the opposite.</p><p>My only response to you is that if you can't understand why we're passionate about these things maybe you aren't very well suited to leading this team.  I have 100% confidence in your ability to build and grow EQ2x given your experience with RMT but I really doubt your ability to stay true to the history of the real EQ2 and the decisions and explanations you've made since coming here really don't ease my mind at all, and I so badly wish they did.</p></blockquote><p>I can't believe I am going to say this, but for the first time, I 100% agree with Gaige on this sentiment.</p>

[Zyne]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tylia@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The mounts are going to be replaced back into the vendors (stable masters). That will occur in Tuesday's hotfix.</p><p>They'll still be available as Standard Mounts in the marketplace also, but will be available at their regular plat/status prices in the vendors as well.</p><p>NOTE: Since there are actually two instances of those mounts, when you're looking at the stable master, you'll see one entry for plat/status, and one entry for SC. Choose whichever one you desire.</p></blockquote><p>This only "fixes" part of the problem.  A complete solution would be to <strong>remove</strong> the option to purchase these mounts with SC from live servers altogether.  I see this as a sneaky and "convenient" way to add these items for purchase to live servers.  This time it was mounts.  What will "mistakenly" appear next time?  Sorry SoE.. you have lost 2 more monthly subscriptions.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>I'm a bit mystified why allowing people to have an additional acquisition path for these mounts would upset you. Can you help me out by explaining how this impacts your gameplay in any way?</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>Would you like commercials shoving products down your throat interrupting the movie you just paid hard earned cash for?</strong></span></p><p>No offense sir but you are completely incompetent and I've become repulsed from reading your posts. I've been reading these forums for weeks in hopes that things might change but instead I've seen nothing but lies and incomptetence coming from you. Not only have you lied but you have backhanded every single veteran and long-time supporter of this game. And you have the gall to even ask the above question? Either you are completely clueless or you don't care...perhaps both. Either way you should be immediately removed of your responsibilities and SOE, along with Smedley if at all possible.</p><p>I suffered horribly through the NGE debacle and I have seen the same earmarks perking up over the last month or so with this game. I'm no spring chicken and can see right through this scam you call "an experiment". It's nothing more than a greedy attempt to make your cash grab while you can, all under the quise of the "free to play" sham that it is.</p><p>These people that have been posting for weeks emploring you NOT to go through with this garbage have been nothing more than door mats and it's disgusting how you and your team have treated them/us. How dare you. And how dare SOE for this complete and utter disregard for your customers.</p><p>As a company, sadly, you'll get what you deserve in the end. The love of money is the root of all evil my friend and that's all that this is, greed. There's a difference in running a respectable business trying to earn a profit and scamming your customers. Treating people like you have in any other business would have you already reported to the BBB. But instead, you're seeing the final outcry of desperate EQ2 enthusiasts grasping and a fleeting hope of ever saving this once great game.</p><p>You sir have failed. It's an absolute horrific travesty that's taken place over the past month or so. You and your superiors should be ashamed of yourselves. Just remember, what comes around goes around my friend. Things tend to come back to you in life, funny how that works. One day, and probably soon, when this "experiment" of yours has fallen flat on its face, you'll only have yourself to blame. And then maybe you won't be so "mystified" by what you see happening.</p>

[Andok]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I just want to add that people that claim "players need to earn their way" only mean that when it comes to buying items with real-life money.  They're fine with twinking alts, giving looting rights to folks that didn't kill a mob, selling epic updates to non-raiders, and every other way people get stuff in game without really "earning it".</p><p>Honestly, it always seemed like a class envy issue to me.</p></blockquote><p>I'm fine with those things because each of them requires someone playing the game.</p><p>You can't sell loot rights without someone forming a raid and killing the mob, ie playing the game as intended.</p><p>you can't twink alts without someone playing the game and getting the items, ie playing the game as intended.</p><p>You can't sell epic updates to players without killing the mobs that update the epic quests, ie playing the game as intended.</p><p>All of those things require a player playing the game to earn in-game currency which they use to buy the service of other players who are accomplishing in-game tasks.</p><p>Those things have existed as long as MMOs have existed and are the foundation of the in-game economies of these persistent worlds.</p><p>What I'm talking about removes the playing the game as intended requirement and replaces it with pay SOE real life money.  That is what I and tons of other players have issue with.</p><p>For instance, everybody and their mother on Unrest can want to pay 5,000 plat for a Venomous Vest of the Godslayer off Evil Rhoen Theer, but nobody can buy it because no one on our server has killed that mob yet.  So the service doesn't exist.  If SOE sold those BPs on the SC store the in-game requirement would cease to exist.</p><p>Comparing them isn't the same.  One is part of playing MMOs and the other isn't.  The other in fact presents the opportunity to totally bypass playing the game at all.  It turns it into a glorified chat room where you can continually charge your VISA to outfit your "sim".</p></blockquote><p>That's all fine, but twinking characters isn't really "earning it".  You just have an issue that some rich kid is going to buy something that you had to "work" for.</p>

[Kardokis]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm a bit mystified why allowing people to have an additional acquisition path for these mounts would upset you. Can you help me out by explaining how this impacts your gameplay in any way?</p></blockquote><p>There are a lot of answers to this, and I'm a little disappointed if you really couldn't conceive any of them on your own.</p><p>A lot of old-school gamers (I can't believe I have to call myself this at 25) think of buying items as cheating.  It doesn't matter if we're not competing with cheaters, we don't want to play with them.  If a D&D game master awarded everyone 500 experience, except for Steve who gets 600 because he slipped him a fiver before the session, how do you expect us to react?</p><p>It also diminishes the accomplishments of people who earned them.  A mount is a huge status symbol at lower levels, and saving up for your first one is almost a rite of passage.  Knowing you can just buy one for cash takes a lot of the fun out of it for me.</p><p>Also, I and those like me want a level playing field.  I think this is especially true for RPG players where you can always improve with a little effort.  I don't like that others get more options because they're willing to pay for virtual items.  I'm sorry if it makes me callous, but I don't care if someone has more money than time.  I don't get extras for being really good at baking cakes or raising iguanas.  Do people always have to get their way if they throw money at things?  (I'll add that I can afford to buy these things if I want to, since that's generally the first accusation that gets thrown as a response to not wanting money injected into your game.)</p><p>Lastly, forgive me for saying so, but that question is a cop out.  I could ask that about anything, all the way up to mythicals.  It doesn't matter if you think we're just being irrational.  We have quite clearly stated what is not wanted, and I don't think I need to justify it to you.  I'm not trying to be rude; I just wish you would respect the boundaries we have set without us having to keep defending them.</p><p>In any case, thank you for actually talking with the players.</p>

[Munu]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tylia@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The mounts are going to be replaced back into the vendors (stable masters). That will occur in Tuesday's hotfix.</p><p>They'll still be available as Standard Mounts in the marketplace also, but will be available at their regular plat/status prices in the vendors as well.</p><p>NOTE: Since there are actually two instances of those mounts, when you're looking at the stable master, you'll see one entry for plat/status, and one entry for SC. Choose whichever one you desire.</p></blockquote><p>This only "fixes" part of the problem.  A complete solution would be to <strong>remove</strong> the option to purchase these mounts with SC from live servers altogether.  I see this as a sneaky and "convenient" way to add these items for purchase to live servers.  This time it was mounts.  What will "mistakenly" appear next time?  Sorry SoE.. you have lost 2 more monthly subscriptions.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>I'm a bit mystified why allowing people to have an additional acquisition path for these mounts would upset you. Can you help me out by explaining how this impacts your gameplay in any way?</p></blockquote><p>Then I fear you have no concept about why poeple play MMOs, and play them for years. The amount of time, effort, writ grinding, harvesting (to sell on the broker to earn the plat) that it takes for a player of that level to EARN a mount like the one you took from the live servers to sell for SC is immense. Players who achieve this goal on their first characters remember that sense of achievement forever.</p><p>This is where most  real MMO players get the enjoyment from their game, earning their way to nice items and then setting themselves targets to achieve for their next endevour.  THIS is what hooks your players in, this (and the communities they join to help them achieve their  in-game goals) is what keeps them playing.</p><p>Items that then become available at the click of a button, no effort, no sense of achivement, undermine the very foundations of a good MMO.  Your players don't get hooked on their next big thing to work on because they can just buy it. Your players get bored very quickly and leave for a game with more depth and immersion.</p><p>As for the poor player who did all the hard work to get his beautiful mount... he's has his pride in his achievment totally stripped from him by the player standing next to him with the same mount he got with a few clicks and a credit card.</p><p>I really don't think you understand MMOs at all now to be honest.</p>

[erk48188]

<p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I just want to add that people that claim "players need to earn their way" only mean that when it comes to buying items with real-life money.  They're fine with twinking alts, giving looting rights to folks that didn't kill a mob, selling epic updates to non-raiders, and every other way people get stuff in game without really "earning it".</p><p>Honestly, it always seemed like a class envy issue to me.</p></blockquote><p>I'm fine with those things because each of them requires someone playing the game.</p><p>You can't sell loot rights without someone forming a raid and killing the mob, ie playing the game as intended.</p><p>you can't twink alts without someone playing the game and getting the items, ie playing the game as intended.</p><p>You can't sell epic updates to players without killing the mobs that update the epic quests, ie playing the game as intended.</p><p>All of those things require a player playing the game to earn in-game currency which they use to buy the service of other players who are accomplishing in-game tasks.</p><p>Those things have existed as long as MMOs have existed and are the foundation of the in-game economies of these persistent worlds.</p><p>What I'm talking about removes the playing the game as intended requirement and replaces it with pay SOE real life money.  That is what I and tons of other players have issue with.</p><p>For instance, everybody and their mother on Unrest can want to pay 5,000 plat for a Venomous Vest of the Godslayer off Evil Rhoen Theer, but nobody can buy it because no one on our server has killed that mob yet.  So the service doesn't exist.  If SOE sold those BPs on the SC store the in-game requirement would cease to exist.</p><p>Comparing them isn't the same.  One is part of playing MMOs and the other isn't.  The other in fact presents the opportunity to totally bypass playing the game at all.  It turns it into a glorified chat room where you can continually charge your VISA to outfit your "sim".</p></blockquote><p>That's all fine, but twinking characters isn't really "earning it".  You just have an issue that some rich kid is going to buy something that you had to "work" for.</p></blockquote><p>i earned it by working up one toon to 90, where i could comfortably earn plat, farm for rares, craft gear/spells, and everything else in order to twink my alt. </p>

[Tylia]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm a bit mystified why allowing people to have an additional acquisition path for these mounts would upset you. Can you help me out by explaining how this impacts your gameplay in any way?</p></blockquote><p>I'm not her, but I'll give my viewpoint, take it or leave it:</p><p>Some of us have been playing this game since beta.  We have certain expectations.  One of those is that players need to earn their way.  I personally don't like players using their wallets to progress in this game.  It brings real life into my hobby in a way that it never did before.</p><p>These mounts were previously only available via plat and status.  Things you have to acquire in-game through progressing your toon.  You've now totally done away with that and said "Hey you, Mr. Rich Guy, want this mount but don't have enough status and plat, refuse to play the game as intended, no problem dude we take VISA!"</p><p>Sure its <em>only</em> a mount but EQ2's short history shows that when you guys get an inch you take about 13,000 miles.  Nothing makes me believe this will be the first thing this happens to.  Eventually what is to stop you from saying "Hey you, Mr. Rich Guy, want this BP but don't have the ability to kill Rhoen Theer - no problem dude we take VISA!"</p><p>You have SC mounts already.  Why take in-game mounts and add them there too, totally circumventing the need to actually play the game?  What is wrong with people acquiring status and plat if they want a nightmare?  If they want to give you money sell them one of the exclusive SC mounts you already offer.</p><p>You said, and I guess its my fault for believing you, that EQ2x was separate so things like this wouldn't happen.  I know you think our opinions are silly, but they matter to us.  I haven't paid SOE thousands or real life dollars on subs and expansions because I don't care about the game, quite the opposite.</p><p>My only response to you is that if you can't understand why we're passionate about these things maybe you aren't very well suited to leading this team.  I have 100% confidence in your ability to build and grow EQ2x given your experience with RMT but I really doubt your ability to stay true to the history of the real EQ2 and the decisions and explanations you've made since coming here really don't ease my mind at all, and I so badly wish they did.</p></blockquote><p>Gaige stated my sentiments perfectly Mr. Smokejumper.  You promised to keep this kind of stuff on your extended servers and off of live.  You lied.  You are no longer trustworthy in my opinion, and you are quickly destroying what used to be an awesome game.  I will spend my monthly subscription elsewhere.</p><p>I would imagine it doesn't matter much to you though, since you now have your F2P server and all those new "players" to spend all that money on all that "stuff" on the marketplace.  Enjoy.</p>

[Sabaar]

<p><span style="color: #008080; font-size: small;">I cancelled my account today.</span></p><p><span style="color: #008080; font-size: small;">I've played EQ2 since launch, Nov. 2004, and EQ1 for a few years before this. I will not be coming back.</span></p><p><span style="color: #008080; font-size: small;">We are being lied to, our game is being destroyed and going the way of SWG...</span></p><p><span style="color: #008080; font-size: small;">Have fun!</span></p>

[erk48188]

<p><cite>Portree@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We did not change your subscription service. Everquest II Extended (EQ2X) is a completely separate service.</p><p>Different forums. Different servers. <span style="color: #ff0000;">If you want to keep playing the way you wish to play, then there is no difference whatsoever. You don't even have to be aware of it (well...after today anyway).</span></p><p>We're not changing the existing EQII Live subscription service at all.</p></blockquote><p><cite>mokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Fyfe@Najena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1. EQX is going to have their own servers? This does not help the population on the existing servers at all. Please look into integrating this on all servers.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">We specifically separated the services because feedback from you folks has always been that the bulk of existing players would <em><span style="text-decoration: underline;">hate having the free-to-play marketplace items on their worlds.</span></em> That they want players to have to earn everything in order to succeed.</span></p><p>I'm afraid we just have to leave them separate at this point.</p><p>We are going to be adding incentive programs to ensure the subscription service still stays attractive to players. We are leaving the Recruit a Friend functionality in place also.</p></blockquote><p> I found these 2 direct quotes in the first few pages of the EQ2X discussion thread.... I am sure I could find more if I was prepared to spend more time finding them. These aren't quotes made by other people on what you might or might not have said, they are direct quotes from your own posts.</p><p>You did make promises and even if you don't agree promises were broken, your customers cetainly feel that you have been less than honest with them. Please either make a decision to roll out the F2P to live servers or remove SC RMT from in game vendors.</p><p>Either way, I have lost faith in the integrity of this game and it's producers. You are going to have to work very hard to get that back for those that stay in this game. I don't know that I'll be one of them.</p><p>At the moment there is not one single subscriber on oone single live server that has logged into the game since this GU that ISN'T aware of EQ2X and it's impact on their game... not one!</p></blockquote><p>i am mystified that the person NEWLY in charge of the game i've been playing for years has a short memory, and has such disregard for the existing player base.</p>

[Andok]

<p><cite>erk48188 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I just want to add that people that claim "players need to earn their way" only mean that when it comes to buying items with real-life money.  They're fine with twinking alts, giving looting rights to folks that didn't kill a mob, selling epic updates to non-raiders, and every other way people get stuff in game without really "earning it".</p><p>Honestly, it always seemed like a class envy issue to me.</p></blockquote><p>I'm fine with those things because each of them requires someone playing the game.</p><p>You can't sell loot rights without someone forming a raid and killing the mob, ie playing the game as intended.</p><p>you can't twink alts without someone playing the game and getting the items, ie playing the game as intended.</p><p>You can't sell epic updates to players without killing the mobs that update the epic quests, ie playing the game as intended.</p><p>All of those things require a player playing the game to earn in-game currency which they use to buy the service of other players who are accomplishing in-game tasks.</p><p>Those things have existed as long as MMOs have existed and are the foundation of the in-game economies of these persistent worlds.</p><p>What I'm talking about removes the playing the game as intended requirement and replaces it with pay SOE real life money.  That is what I and tons of other players have issue with.</p><p>For instance, everybody and their mother on Unrest can want to pay 5,000 plat for a Venomous Vest of the Godslayer off Evil Rhoen Theer, but nobody can buy it because no one on our server has killed that mob yet.  So the service doesn't exist.  If SOE sold those BPs on the SC store the in-game requirement would cease to exist.</p><p>Comparing them isn't the same.  One is part of playing MMOs and the other isn't.  The other in fact presents the opportunity to totally bypass playing the game at all.  It turns it into a glorified chat room where you can continually charge your VISA to outfit your "sim".</p></blockquote><p>That's all fine, but twinking characters isn't really "earning it".  You just have an issue that some rich kid is going to buy something that you had to "work" for.</p></blockquote><p>i earned it by working up one toon to 90, where i could comfortably earn plat, farm for rares, craft gear/spells, and everything else in order to twink my alt. </p></blockquote><p>That's just as silly as saying "I earned it because I typed in my Visa number". </p><p>Like is said, people that claim "players need to earn their way" only mean that when it comes to buying items with real-life money.  They're fine with twinking alts, giving looting rights to folks that didn't kill a mob, trivializing content (eg. gray shard runs), selling epic updates to non-raiders, and every other way people get stuff in game without really "earning it".</p>

[Illmarr]

<p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>erk48188 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I just want to add that people that claim "players need to earn their way" only mean that when it comes to buying items with real-life money.  They're fine with twinking alts, giving looting rights to folks that didn't kill a mob, selling epic updates to non-raiders, and every other way people get stuff in game without really "earning it".</p><p>Honestly, it always seemed like a class envy issue to me.</p></blockquote><p>I'm fine with those things because each of them requires someone playing the game.</p><p>You can't sell loot rights without someone forming a raid and killing the mob, ie playing the game as intended.</p><p>you can't twink alts without someone playing the game and getting the items, ie playing the game as intended.</p><p>You can't sell epic updates to players without killing the mobs that update the epic quests, ie playing the game as intended.</p><p>All of those things require a player playing the game to earn in-game currency which they use to buy the service of other players who are accomplishing in-game tasks.</p><p>Those things have existed as long as MMOs have existed and are the foundation of the in-game economies of these persistent worlds.</p><p>What I'm talking about removes the playing the game as intended requirement and replaces it with pay SOE real life money.  That is what I and tons of other players have issue with.</p><p>For instance, everybody and their mother on Unrest can want to pay 5,000 plat for a Venomous Vest of the Godslayer off Evil Rhoen Theer, but nobody can buy it because no one on our server has killed that mob yet.  So the service doesn't exist.  If SOE sold those BPs on the SC store the in-game requirement would cease to exist.</p><p>Comparing them isn't the same.  One is part of playing MMOs and the other isn't.  The other in fact presents the opportunity to totally bypass playing the game at all.  It turns it into a glorified chat room where you can continually charge your VISA to outfit your "sim".</p></blockquote><p>That's all fine, but twinking characters isn't really "earning it".  You just have an issue that some rich kid is going to buy something that you had to "work" for.</p></blockquote><p>i earned it by working up one toon to 90, where i could comfortably earn plat, farm for rares, craft gear/spells, and everything else in order to twink my alt. </p></blockquote><p>That's just as silly as saying "I earned it because I typed in my Visa number". </p><p>Like is said, people that claim "players need to earn their way" only mean that when it comes to buying items with real-life money.  They're fine with twinking alts, giving looting rights to folks that didn't kill a mob, trivializing content (eg. gray shard runs), selling epic updates to non-raiders, and every other way people get stuff in game without really "earning it".</p></blockquote><p>If you can't grasp the difference between 24 people taking the time killing a raid mob and some soloer with too much time on their hands and an ove-rinflated sense of need taking the time to amass the plat to buy a drop from the 24 person raid that killed the mob in the first place and having an item just pop into your bags out of thin air with all the effort of typing in a 16 digit credit card number I'm sure you'll be a happy camper for many more years to come.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Like is said, people that claim "players need to earn their way" only mean that when it comes to buying items with real-life money.  They're fine with twinking alts, giving looting rights to folks that didn't kill a mob, trivializing content (eg. gray shard runs), selling epic updates to non-raiders, and every other way people get stuff in game without really "earning it".</p></blockquote><p>They earned something else in game that they traded for those items or services.  They had to play the game to be rewarded.</p><p>The analogy is silly.</p>

[Thundy]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tylia@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The mounts are going to be replaced back into the vendors (stable masters). That will occur in Tuesday's hotfix.</p><p>They'll still be available as Standard Mounts in the marketplace also, but will be available at their regular plat/status prices in the vendors as well.</p><p>NOTE: Since there are actually two instances of those mounts, when you're looking at the stable master, you'll see one entry for plat/status, and one entry for SC. Choose whichever one you desire.</p></blockquote><p>This only "fixes" part of the problem.  A complete solution would be to <strong>remove</strong> the option to purchase these mounts with SC from live servers altogether.  I see this as a sneaky and "convenient" way to add these items for purchase to live servers.  This time it was mounts.  What will "mistakenly" appear next time?  Sorry SoE.. you have lost 2 more monthly subscriptions.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>I'm a bit mystified why allowing people to have an additional acquisition path for these mounts would upset you. Can you help me out by explaining how this impacts your gameplay in any way?</p></blockquote><p>I would recommend you read Gaige's response slowly and carefully if paid subscription numbers matter to you. If not you can just disregard everything he said, just like you've done to that 250 page EQ2x thread. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Neiloch]

<p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>That's just as silly as saying "I earned it because I typed in my Visa number". <p>Like is said, people that claim "players need to earn their way" only mean that when it comes to buying items with real-life money.  They're fine with twinking alts, giving looting rights to folks that didn't kill a mob, trivializing content (eg. gray shard runs), selling epic updates to non-raiders, and every other way people get stuff in game without really "earning it".</p></blockquote><p>but someone, some where did work IN GAME to get it, even if it wasn't the person getting it. cash shops are like breaking the laws of physics. Its like the difference between moving an object yourself (or paying someone to do it) and simply speaking the words "move" and having some alternate dimensional being move it for you.</p>

[Andok]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Like is said, people that claim "players need to earn their way" only mean that when it comes to buying items with real-life money.  They're fine with twinking alts, giving looting rights to folks that didn't kill a mob, trivializing content (eg. gray shard runs), selling epic updates to non-raiders, and every other way people get stuff in game without really "earning it".</p></blockquote><p>They earned something else in game that they traded for those items or services.  They had to play the game to be rewarded.</p><p>The analogy is silly.</p></blockquote><p>Sorry, but some folks don't "earn something else in game to trade" - they're just given the items.  You can trivialize content all you like - I don't care; however,  claiming that someone that merely shows up and loots an item "earned it" and the person that purchased an item with real-life cash didn't is laughable.</p><p>I have seen nothing here that refutes that this is a class envy issue.</p>

[Neiloch]

<p>the person who got the item and gave it away earned it, and did as they pleased with it.</p><p>The point is, someone somewhere did work to earn it, no matter if they just detraoyed, sold it, muted it, gave it away or let it rot. and without using what I see as basically sanctioned, for profit hacks that is a cash shop.</p>

[Torvos]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tylia@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The mounts are going to be replaced back into the vendors (stable masters). That will occur in Tuesday's hotfix.</p><p>They'll still be available as Standard Mounts in the marketplace also, but will be available at their regular plat/status prices in the vendors as well.</p><p>NOTE: Since there are actually two instances of those mounts, when you're looking at the stable master, you'll see one entry for plat/status, and one entry for SC. Choose whichever one you desire.</p></blockquote><p>This only "fixes" part of the problem.  A complete solution would be to <strong>remove</strong> the option to purchase these mounts with SC from live servers altogether.  I see this as a sneaky and "convenient" way to add these items for purchase to live servers.  This time it was mounts.  What will "mistakenly" appear next time?  Sorry SoE.. you have lost 2 more monthly subscriptions.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>I'm a bit mystified why allowing people to have an additional acquisition path for these mounts would upset you. Can you help me out by explaining how this impacts your gameplay in any way?</p></blockquote><p>We were always told that the guild requirement for status items had to stay to reward guilds for working hard to increase thier levels.  Those mounts used to symbol that you earned them through helping a guild level up, which wasn't something that you could do over night. Now I can pop out my creditcard and just pay for them.  It's a major impact to my gameplay knowng that I spent weeks grinding writs to buy those mounts, when  now you can just pop out a creditcard and buy them. </p><p>I understand you truely don't care, and that this is the business model you plan to run. Please don't pretend that it doesn't matter, or that it doesn't effect us though.</p>

[Deson]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p> <blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm a bit mystified why allowing people to have an additional acquisition path for these mounts would upset you. Can you help me out by explaining how this impacts your gameplay in any way?</p></blockquote><p>I'm not her, but I'll give my viewpoint, take it or leave it:</p><p>Some of us have been playing this game since beta.  We have certain expectations.  One of those is that players need to earn their way.  I personally don't like players using their wallets to progress in this game.  It brings real life into my hobby in a way that it never did before.</p><p>These mounts were previously only available via plat and status.  Things you have to acquire in-game through progressing your toon.  You've now totally done away with that and said "Hey you, Mr. Rich Guy, want this mount but don't have enough status and plat, refuse to play the game as intended, no problem dude we take VISA!"</p><p>Sure its <em>only</em> a mount but EQ2's short history shows that when you guys get an inch you take about 13,000 miles.  Nothing makes me believe this will be the first thing this happens to.  Eventually what is to stop you from saying "Hey you, Mr. Rich Guy, want this BP but don't have the ability to kill Rhoen Theer - no problem dude we take VISA!"</p><p>You have SC mounts already.  Why take in-game mounts and add them there too, totally circumventing the need to actually play the game?  What is wrong with people acquiring status and plat if they want a nightmare?  If they want to give you money sell them one of the exclusive SC mounts you already offer.</p><p>You said, and I guess its my fault for believing you, that EQ2x was separate so things like this wouldn't happen.  I know you think our opinions are silly, but they matter to us.  I haven't paid SOE thousands or real life dollars on subs and expansions because I don't care about the game, quite the opposite.</p><p>My only response to you is that if you can't understand why we're passionate about these things maybe you aren't very well suited to leading this team.  I have 100% confidence in your ability to build and grow EQ2x given your experience with RMT but I really doubt your ability to stay true to the history of the real EQ2 and the decisions and explanations you've made since coming here really don't ease my mind at all, and I so badly wish they did.</p></blockquote> <p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I just want to add that people that claim "players need to earn their way" only mean that when it comes to buying items with real-life money.  They're fine with twinking alts, giving looting rights to folks that didn't kill a mob, selling epic updates to non-raiders, and every other way people get stuff in game without really "earning it".</p><p>Honestly, it always seemed like a class envy issue to me.</p></blockquote><p>I'm fine with those things because each of them requires someone playing the game.</p><p>You can't sell loot rights without someone forming a raid and killing the mob, ie playing the game as intended.</p><p>you can't twink alts without someone playing the game and getting the items, ie playing the game as intended.</p><p>You can't sell epic updates to players without killing the mobs that update the epic quests, ie playing the game as intended.</p><p>All of those things require a player playing the game to earn in-game currency which they use to buy the service of other players who are accomplishing in-game tasks.</p><p>Those things have existed as long as MMOs have existed and are the foundation of the in-game economies of these persistent worlds.</p><p>What I'm talking about removes the playing the game as intended requirement and replaces it with pay SOE real life money.  That is what I and tons of other players have issue with.</p><p>For instance, everybody and their mother on Unrest can want to pay 5,000 plat for a Venomous Vest of the Godslayer off Evil Rhoen Theer, but nobody can buy it because no one on our server has killed that mob yet.  So the service doesn't exist.  If SOE sold those BPs on the SC store the in-game requirement would cease to exist.</p><p>Comparing them isn't the same.  One is part of playing MMOs and the other isn't.  The other in fact presents the opportunity to totally bypass playing the game at all.  It turns it into a glorified chat room where you can continually charge your VISA to outfit your "sim".</p></blockquote><p>These two cover my answer as well.</p>

[Munu]

<p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Like is said, people that claim "players need to earn their way" only mean that when it comes to buying items with real-life money.  They're fine with twinking alts, giving looting rights to folks that didn't kill a mob, trivializing content (eg. gray shard runs), selling epic updates to non-raiders, and every other way people get stuff in game without really "earning it".</p></blockquote><p>They earned something else in game that they traded for those items or services.  They had to play the game to be rewarded.</p><p>The analogy is silly.</p></blockquote><p>Sorry, but some folks don't "earn something else in game to trade" - they're just given the items.  You can trivialize content all you like - I don't care; however,  claiming that someone that merely shows up and loots an item "earned it" and the person that purchased an item with real-life cash didn't is laughable.</p><p>I have seen nothing here that refutes that this is a class envy issue.</p></blockquote><p>Please stop trying to troll and derail this thread... the stuff being discussed here is too important to start nitpicking and trolling... you've made your point, some folks don't agree with it.. fine.</p><p>Can we focus more on the RMT in our live servers and a SP who doesn't seem to understand the basic concepts of what makes a good MMO?</p>

[MonkeyBob]

<p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Like is said, people that claim "players need to earn their way" only mean that when it comes to buying items with real-life money.  They're fine with twinking alts, giving looting rights to folks that didn't kill a mob, trivializing content (eg. gray shard runs), selling epic updates to non-raiders, and every other way people get stuff in game without really "earning it".</p></blockquote><p>They earned something else in game that they traded for those items or services.  They had to play the game to be rewarded.</p><p>The analogy is silly.</p></blockquote><p>Sorry, but some folks don't "earn something else in game to trade" - they're just given the items.  You can trivialize content all you like - I don't care; however,  claiming that someone that merely shows up and loots an item "earned it" and the person that purchased an item with real-life cash didn't is laughable.</p><p>I have seen nothing here that refutes that this is a class envy issue.</p></blockquote><p>I fail dont see how you dont "get it". Have you ever sold anything on the broker?</p><p>If I go <strong>harvest</strong> for a few hours, come back with a <strong>stack of rares</strong> and sell them <strong>on the broker</strong> to someone who quested for the plat, are they earning it?</p><p>Now consider this:</p><p>If I go <strong>raid</strong> for a few hours, come back with a <strong>rare item</strong> and sell it <strong>in the auction channel</strong> to someone who quested for the plat, are they earning it?</p><p>compare this to:</p><p>If I log on, pull out my credit card and get the phat lewts, am I earning it?</p><p>I suggest that be careful with your answer...</p>

[Geothe]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm a bit mystified why allowing people to have an additional acquisition path for these mounts would upset you. Can you help me out by explaining how this impacts your gameplay in any way?</p></blockquote><p>If you actually have to ask this question, you really have no freakin right being in the position you are in.Go back to the pure cash shop games you were with previously.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Sorry, but some folks don't "earn something else in game to trade" - they're just given the items. </p><p>You can trivialize content all you like - I don't care; however,  claiming that someone that merely shows up and loots an item "earned it" and the person that purchased an item with real-life cash didn't is laughable.</p></blockquote><p>My guild doesn't give raid loot away.  We sell it for plat.  Maybe on your server the rampant giving away of raid loot to lowbies happens but it hasn't been my experience.  However even in that bizarre example the raid guild is playing the game as intended to acquire the loot.  It doesn't materialize out of thin air thanks to real life money.  </p><p>The best part about MMOs is that you can't succeed based on your real life merits.  Even if your rich, if you suck at EQ2 you won't be killing Rhoen Theer hardmode.  It totally detaches social status from in game accomplishments, and is imo at least one of the main reasons these games are so successful.</p><p>Like I said epic updates can't be sold, raid loot can't be auctioned, and all of your examples can't happen unless some players are playing the game as intended and defeating the content so they can acquire the updates, loot, etc.</p><p>RMT totally removes the game from the equation and facilitates your progression simply by how much you're willing to pay SOE.</p><p>There is a huge difference between paying $15 a month for a subscription and killing Vox than there is sending SOE $15 dollars and having Vox loot appear in your inventory.</p><p>If you can't see that, I can't help you.</p>

[CorpseGoddess]

<p>Just to play devil's advocate here for a minute...SJ did ask "how it affects your gameplay", not "why this cheeses you off to no end".  He specifically asked it of the mount issue.</p><p>And let's be honest here.  At the end of the day, how somebody gets their mount affects how *I* play the game ZERO PERCENT.  NOT AT ALL.  He does have a point there.</p><p>I realise that you'll all make the "slippery slope" argument, and I'm not saying you shouldn't.  But so far, nobody's actually answered the question SJ actually asked.</p>

[Viane]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm a bit mystified why allowing people to have an additional acquisition path for these mounts would upset you. Can you help me out by explaining how this impacts your gameplay in any way?</p></blockquote><p>I'm not her, but I'll give my viewpoint, take it or leave it:</p><p>Some of us have been playing this game since beta.  We have certain expectations.  One of those is that players need to earn their way.  I personally don't like players using their wallets to progress in this game.  It brings real life into my hobby in a way that it never did before.</p><p>These mounts were previously only available via plat and status.  Things you have to acquire in-game through progressing your toon.  You've now totally done away with that and said "Hey you, Mr. Rich Guy, want this mount but don't have enough status and plat, refuse to play the game as intended, no problem dude we take VISA!"</p><p>Sure its <em>only</em> a mount but EQ2's short history shows that when you guys get an inch you take about 13,000 miles.  Nothing makes me believe this will be the first thing this happens to.  Eventually what is to stop you from saying "Hey you, Mr. Rich Guy, want this BP but don't have the ability to kill Rhoen Theer - no problem dude we take VISA!"</p><p>You have SC mounts already.  Why take in-game mounts and add them there too, totally circumventing the need to actually play the game?  What is wrong with people acquiring status and plat if they want a nightmare?  If they want to give you money sell them one of the exclusive SC mounts you already offer.</p><p>You said, and I guess its my fault for believing you, that EQ2x was separate so things like this wouldn't happen.  I know you think our opinions are silly, but they matter to us.  I haven't paid SOE thousands or real life dollars on subs and expansions because I don't care about the game, quite the opposite.</p><p>My only response to you is that if you can't understand why we're passionate about these things maybe you aren't very well suited to leading this team.  I have 100% confidence in your ability to build and grow EQ2x given your experience with RMT but I really doubt your ability to stay true to the history of the real EQ2 and the decisions and explanations you've made since coming here really don't ease my mind at all, and I so badly wish they did.</p></blockquote><p>Completely agreed.  You made EQ2x seperate citing the fact that the community didn't want RMT on their servers.  How is this NOT putting RMT on the servers?</p>

[erk48188]

<p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>That's just as silly as saying "I earned it because I typed in my Visa number". </p><p>Like is said, people that claim "players need to earn their way" only mean that when it comes to buying items with real-life money.  They're fine with twinking alts, giving looting rights to folks that didn't kill a mob, trivializing content (eg. gray shard runs), selling epic updates to non-raiders, and every other way people get stuff in game without really "earning it".</p></blockquote><p>you know, i think it's silly that some people get off on just being contrary.  while you're having your little fun, i'd suggest you think about this. </p><p>there's a sizeable segment of the player base that feels that the current regime has been <strong>arrogant</strong> and <strong>decieptful</strong>, and are bringing about the sort of changes that will drive away paying customers.  they're really gambling on hooking new people with this phoney "free to play" idea, then hoping to see them end up paying more money than the current subscription base. </p><p>i envision you looking around here in 6 months and wondering where everyone went.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Streppoch@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just to play devil's advocate here for a minute...SJ did ask "how it affects your gameplay", not "why this cheeses you off to no end".  He specifically asked it of the mount issue.</p><p>And let's be honest here.  At the end of the day, how somebody gets their mount affects how *I* play the game ZERO PERCENT.  NOT AT ALL.  He does have a point there.</p><p>I realise that you'll all make the "slippery slope" argument, and I'm not saying you shouldn't.  But so far, nobody's actually answered the question SJ actually asked.</p></blockquote><p>It makes the game an uneven playing field on live and totally removes part of the reward structure that the guild system was implemented for.</p>

[erk48188]

<p><cite>Streppoch@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just to play devil's advocate here for a minute...SJ did ask "how it affects your gameplay", not "why this cheeses you off to no end".  He specifically asked it of the mount issue.</p><p>And let's be honest here.  At the end of the day, how somebody gets their mount affects how *I* play the game ZERO PERCENT.  NOT AT ALL.  He does have a point there.</p><p>I realise that you'll all make the "slippery slope" argument, and I'm not saying you shouldn't.  But so far, nobody's actually answered the question SJ actually asked.</p></blockquote><p>slippery slope.</p>

[Munu]

<p><cite>Streppoch@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just to play devil's advocate here for a minute...SJ did ask "how it affects your gameplay", not "why this cheeses you off to no end".  He specifically asked it of the mount issue.</p><p>And let's be honest here.  At the end of the day, how somebody gets their mount affects how *I* play the game ZERO PERCENT.  NOT AT ALL.  He does have a point there.</p><p>I realise that you'll all make the "slippery slope" argument, and I'm not saying you shouldn't.  But so far, nobody's actually answered the question SJ actually asked.</p></blockquote><p>Then I suggest you go back a bit and read my post re this.</p><p>If I am the player who actually worked hard to earn that mount, then please tell me how my gameplay is not affected by the person standing next to me who bought it. Where is my sense of pride and achievment I had just moments before?.... down the drain along with any further motivation to play  the game.</p>

[CorpseGoddess]

<p><cite>Portree@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Streppoch@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just to play devil's advocate here for a minute...SJ did ask "how it affects your gameplay", not "why this cheeses you off to no end".  He specifically asked it of the mount issue.</p><p>And let's be honest here.  At the end of the day, how somebody gets their mount affects how *I* play the game ZERO PERCENT.  NOT AT ALL.  He does have a point there.</p><p>I realise that you'll all make the "slippery slope" argument, and I'm not saying you shouldn't.  But so far, nobody's actually answered the question SJ actually asked.</p></blockquote><p>Then I suggest you go back a bit and read my post re this.</p><p>If I am the player who actually worked hard to earn that mount, then please tell me how my gameplay is not affected by the person standing next to me who bought it. Where is my sense of pride and achievment I had just moments before?.... down the drain along with any further motivation to play  the game.</p></blockquote><p>My personal sense of achievment and worth is not based on what other people have or don't have.  I'm proud of what I achieved regardless.  It's MY achievement.  If somebody else doesn't want that same sense, then whatever.  It doesn't affect me and how I play or how I enjoy myself.</p><p>I'm happy because I got what I got and how I got it.  How player X got what they got and how they got it doesn't matter to me at all.  I'm kind of self-centered that way.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Finora]

<p><cite>Torvos wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm a bit mystified why allowing people to have an additional acquisition path for these mounts would upset you. Can you help me out by explaining how this impacts your gameplay in any way?</p></blockquote><p>We were always told that the guild requirement for status items had to stay to reward guilds for working hard to increase thier levels.  Those mounts used to symbol that you earned them through helping a guild level up, which wasn't something that you could do over night. Now I can pop out my creditcard and just pay for them.  It's a major impact to my gameplay knowng that I spent weeks grinding writs to buy those mounts, when  now you can just pop out a creditcard and buy them. </p><p>I understand you truely don't care, and that this is the business model you plan to run. Please don't pretend that it doesn't matter, or that it doesn't effect us though.</p></blockquote><p>This and what Gaige said (I seriously can't believe how much I'm agreeing with Gaige lately, it's scary).</p><p>I worked very hard to buy the spirit steed that is now SC on my main some time ago. One alt worked quite hard as well to earn the status and such for the black one, which is also now SC. I have an alt I was currently working to get the status + plat to buy the blue nightmare. The people in my guild put in a great deal of time over the years getting the guild leveled up so that we could buy such things.</p><p>Put all the mounts you want on the Marketplace, I don't care, as long as they are different from the ones we have had to actually play the game to earn for the past few years. If you can't see why the mounts matter, when are we going to start seeing all the items that you have to be in a guild of x level with x amount of status to purchase from the city merchant put on the marketplace for SC? When are all the faction items that people have had to grind up the factions to purchase going to start showing up? Same thing.</p><p>This is REAL eq2, not eq2 extended. There should not be 'alternate paths' aka buying your way available here. You said you heard us.  Apparently you completely misunderstood.</p><p>And no, I don't base my self worth on what other people do or don't. I do however think lines have been crossed that never should have been.</p>

[Viane]

<p>Actually, I'm done.  Both accounts are cancelled.  If I wanted to play a RMT game, I would have done so in the first place. </p><p>I  hope this experiment with completely ticking off your loyal and long term players works out for you...if not...well don't say no one warned you. </p>

[Kardokis]

<p><cite>Streppoch@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just to play devil's advocate here for a minute...SJ did ask "how it affects your gameplay", not "why this cheeses you off to no end".  He specifically asked it of the mount issue.</p><p>And let's be honest here.  At the end of the day, how somebody gets their mount affects how *I* play the game ZERO PERCENT.  NOT AT ALL.  He does have a point there.</p><p>I realise that you'll all make the "slippery slope" argument, and I'm not saying you shouldn't.  But so far, nobody's actually answered the question SJ actually asked.</p></blockquote><p>I have to play with it there.  I don't want it there.  It lowers my enjoyment of the game.  What answer are you looking for?  "It decreases my stats?"</p>

[SpiderlingBane]

<p><cite>Streppoch@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just to play devil's advocate here for a minute...SJ did ask "how it affects your gameplay", not "why this cheeses you off to no end".  He specifically asked it of the mount issue.</p><p>And let's be honest here.  At the end of the day, how somebody gets their mount affects how *I* play the game ZERO PERCENT.  NOT AT ALL.  He does have a point there.</p><p>I realise that you'll all make the "slippery slope" argument, and I'm not saying you shouldn't.  But so far, nobody's actually answered the question SJ actually asked.</p></blockquote><p>You are wrong.  Someone buying an item that I struggled to obtain by playing the game affects me greatly.  RMT of game rewards diminishes my in-game accomplishments.</p>

[CorpseGoddess]

<p><cite>SpiderlingBane wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Streppoch@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just to play devil's advocate here for a minute...SJ did ask "how it affects your gameplay", not "why this cheeses you off to no end".  He specifically asked it of the mount issue.</p><p>And let's be honest here.  At the end of the day, how somebody gets their mount affects how *I* play the game ZERO PERCENT.  NOT AT ALL.  He does have a point there.</p><p>I realise that you'll all make the "slippery slope" argument, and I'm not saying you shouldn't.  But so far, nobody's actually answered the question SJ actually asked.</p></blockquote><p>You are wrong.  Someone buying an item that I struggled to obtain by playing the game affects me greatly.  RMT of game rewards diminishes my in-game accomplishments.</p></blockquote><p>I'm really sorry for everybody that feels this way, I honestly am.  There's a certain serenity in not worrying about everybody else and only worrying about myself.  I mean, if I felt this way IRL about stuff that people have that I don't, or stuff that is given to them that I worked for, I'd be a seething ball of resentment. </p><p>I just log on to play and enjoy myself; what anybody else is doing, or has, doesn't bother me in the least.</p>

[Jaffa Tamarin]

<p><cite>Portree@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If I am the player who actually worked hard to earn that mount, then please tell me how my gameplay is not affected by the person standing next to me who bought it. Where is my sense of pride and achievment I had just moments before?.... down the drain along with any further motivation to play  the game.</p></blockquote><p>I did do that, and it doesn't bother me at all if the same mounts are now going to be available for SC.</p><p>OTOH, I was annoyed by all the people abusing grey shard runs while I went and earned my shard armor doing instances at level "as intended".  So I guess I can understand how some people can be so upset by this, even if I don't feel it myself.</p>

[Deson]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Streppoch@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just to play devil's advocate here for a minute...SJ did ask "how it affects your gameplay", not "why this cheeses you off to no end".  He specifically asked it of the mount issue.</p><p>And let's be honest here.  At the end of the day, how somebody gets their mount affects how *I* play the game ZERO PERCENT.  NOT AT ALL.  He does have a point there.</p><p>I realise that you'll all make the "slippery slope" argument, and I'm not saying you shouldn't.  But so far, nobody's actually answered the question SJ actually asked.</p></blockquote><p>It makes the game an uneven playing field on live and totally removes part of the reward structure that the guild system was implemented for.</p></blockquote><p>This and it also creates a lot of pressure for players otherwise not inclined to spend cash do so. If the play standard is increased because of RL cash influence, then other players are forced to either pay cash to keep up or otherwise work harder to meet the standard.</p>

[SmokeJumper]

<p><cite>Finora@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Torvos wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm a bit mystified why allowing people to have an additional acquisition path for these mounts would upset you. Can you help me out by explaining how this impacts your gameplay in any way?</p></blockquote><p>We were always told that the guild requirement for status items had to stay to reward guilds for working hard to increase thier levels.  Those mounts used to symbol that you earned them through helping a guild level up, which wasn't something that you could do over night. Now I can pop out my creditcard and just pay for them.  It's a major impact to my gameplay knowng that I spent weeks grinding writs to buy those mounts, when  now you can just pop out a creditcard and buy them. </p><p>I understand you truely don't care, and that this is the business model you plan to run. Please don't pretend that it doesn't matter, or that it doesn't effect us though.</p></blockquote></blockquote><p>Let me address the "you truly don't care" comment first. That's false. I wouldn't have asked the question if I didn't care. I asked because I sincerely wanted to discuss things.</p><p>I get what you're saying about the fact that you earned it and don't want others to buy it. I'll go talk to the team about it. Maybe we'll do something like make the Standard Mounts in the marketplace slightly different so that they're not the same item.</p><p>No guarantees, but I do hear what you're saying here. Thanks.</p>

[Andok]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Sorry, but some folks don't "earn something else in game to trade" - they're just given the items. </p><p>You can trivialize content all you like - I don't care; however,  claiming that someone that merely shows up and loots an item "earned it" and the person that purchased an item with real-life cash didn't is laughable.</p></blockquote><p>My guild doesn't give raid loot away.  We sell it for plat.  Maybe on your server the rampant giving away of raid loot to lowbies happens but it hasn't been my experience.  However even in that bizarre example the raid guild is playing the game as intended to acquire the loot.  It doesn't materialize out of thin air thanks to real life money.  </p><p>The best part about MMOs is that you can't succeed based on your real life merits.  Even if your rich, if you suck at EQ2 you won't be killing Rhoen Theer hardmode.  It totally detaches social status from in game accomplishments, and is imo at least one of the main reasons these games are so successful.</p><p>Like I said epic updates can't be sold, raid loot can't be auctioned, and all of your examples can't happen unless some players are playing the game as intended and defeating the content so they can acquire the updates, loot, etc.</p><p>RMT totally removes the game from the equation and facilitates your progression simply by how much you're willing to pay SOE.</p><p>There is a huge difference between paying $15 a month for a subscription and killing Vox than there is sending SOE $15 dollars and having Vox loot appear in your inventory.</p><p>If you can't see that, I can't help you.</p></blockquote><p>I understand what you're saying - it's just rediculous.  You say the act of clicking a chest is "earning it" but clicking "buy now" isn't.  Since you seem to be ok with someone "earning" something by clicking a chest if someone else makes the chest drop, then you should be fine with someone buying any item as long as someone somewhere "earned it".</p><p>You say "Even if you're rich, if you suck at EQ2 you won't be killing Rhoen Theer hardmode."  Well, that person will likely still suck if they buy their loot, so why should you care.</p><p>The only legitimate argument I see against selling loot for real-life money is for the top end folks that view this game as a competition and want to be/have the best of the best.  That's easy to avoid by just not selling the best of the best gear on the marketplace.  Who gives a crap if someone buys even Legendary gear.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Since you seem to be ok with someone "earning" something by clicking a chest if someone else makes the chest drop, then you should be fine with someone buying any item as long as someone somewhere "earned it".</p></blockquote><p>I guess, in the end, I just want people to have to play the game to earn things.  RMT removes that requirement, thus I don't like it for anything other than statless appearance items.</p>

[MonkeyBob]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Finora@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Torvos wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm a bit mystified why allowing people to have an additional acquisition path for these mounts would upset you. Can you help me out by explaining how this impacts your gameplay in any way?</p></blockquote><p>We were always told that the guild requirement for status items had to stay to reward guilds for working hard to increase thier levels.  Those mounts used to symbol that you earned them through helping a guild level up, which wasn't something that you could do over night. Now I can pop out my creditcard and just pay for them.  It's a major impact to my gameplay knowng that I spent weeks grinding writs to buy those mounts, when  now you can just pop out a creditcard and buy them. </p><p>I understand you truely don't care, and that this is the business model you plan to run. Please don't pretend that it doesn't matter, or that it doesn't effect us though.</p></blockquote></blockquote><p>Let me address the "you truly don't care" comment first. That's false. I wouldn't have asked the question if I didn't care. I asked because I sincerely wanted to discuss things.</p><p>I get what you're saying about the fact that you earned it and don't want others to buy it. I'll go talk to the team about it. Maybe we'll do something like make the Standard Mounts in the marketplace slightly different so that they're not the same item.</p><p>No guarantees, but I do hear what you're saying here. Thanks.</p></blockquote><p>oh joy! the SC ones will have better stats!</p><p>I'll put 100plat on it. Whos taking my bet?</p>

[SmokeJumper]

<p>To go a step further, we'll be removing the current Standard Mounts from the marketplace in the morning.</p><p>When we add Standard Mounts back in, they will be different than the ones you had previously earned.</p>

[SmokeJumper]

<p><cite>Izass@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>oh joy! the SC ones will have better stats!</p><p>I'll put 100plat on it. Whos taking my bet?</p></blockquote><p>Folks...take this guy's money. He's going to lose that bet.</p>

[Gaige]

<p>/shrug</p><p>At least he is willing to discuss it.  I imagine if anything they'll make them look different, which I guess counts, lol.  I dunno.  Anymore its just almost too much to care about.  Things are changing at such a fast pace its so disheartening.  SOE seems hellbent on RMTing the heck out of EQ2 no matter what.</p><p><div><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>To go a step further, we'll be removing the current Standard Mounts from the marketplace in the morning.</p><p>When we add Standard Mounts back in, they will be different than the ones you had previously earned.</p></blockquote><p>Thanks dude.  That is a compromise I can accept.</p><p>SC mounts = SC mounts</p><p>In-Game mounts = In-Game mounts.</p><p>I know I'll never totally escape RMT so I'll take what I can get.</p></div></p>

[MonkeyBob]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Izass@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>oh joy! the SC ones will have better stats!</p><p>I'll put 100plat on it. Whos taking my bet?</p></blockquote><p>Folks...take this guy's money. He's going to lose that bet.</p></blockquote><p>Ha! My accounts expire today - YOU wont be getting any more of my money.</p>

[Andok]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Since you seem to be ok with someone "earning" something by clicking a chest if someone else makes the chest drop, then you should be fine with someone buying any item as long as someone somewhere "earned it".</p></blockquote><p>I guess, in the end, I just want people to have to play the game to earn things.  RMT removes that requirement, thus I don't like it for anything other than statless appearance items.</p></blockquote><p>I would rather "earn" things myself too.  Buying my gear instead of adventuring for it kinda makes the game pointless.  Still, I could care less what my neighbor is doing or what they find fun.  When I group up and have fun in a dungeon, I just think of how much fun I had, and I never even stop to worry about how my groupmates got their gear. That just seems a little juvenile to me.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Buying my gear instead of adventuring for it kinda makes the game pointless.</p></blockquote><p>Unless you can stand still and earn plat, I don't see how you could buy gear without playing the game.</p>

[Deson]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Let me address the "you truly don't care" comment first. That's false. I wouldn't have asked the question if I didn't care. I asked because I sincerely wanted to discuss things.</p><p>I get what you're saying about the fact that you earned it and don't want others to buy it. I'll go talk to the team about it. Maybe we'll do something like make the Standard Mounts in the marketplace slightly different so that they're not the same item.</p><p>No guarantees, but I do hear what you're saying here. Thanks.</p></blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>To go a step further, we'll be removing the current Standard Mounts from the marketplace in the morning.</p><p>When we add Standard Mounts back in, they will be different than the ones you had previously earned.</p></blockquote><p>Well done to the extent it could be. Thanks. As far as discussing things, you should probably make a thread on it. It's purely philosophical though and given your other statements on RMT,I'm not entirely what good will come of it.</p>

[Andok]

<p>Since Smokejumper has been monitoring this thread, let me add -</p><p>What I want to see most on the Marketplace are convenience items that save me time.  For example, harvesting rares is no challenge whatsoever.  It just takes hours and hours of clicking nodes around green-con solo mobs that have no chance of killing me at all.  I would pay good money for rares so I can avoid hours of boring farming and just go to the fun parts of the game.  </p>

[Wurm]

<p>The ghosts of Tribes 2 are wailing away in pain and torment...</p><p>Smokejumper I had hoped you had learned something from those days, I guess not.</p><p>We don't want any SC mounts other than the "SUPER SPECIAL LIMITED TIME ONLY!" ones like the cats and clouds on our live servers at all. Those are OK as long as they stay expensive and are truly only available for a short amount of time like you said when they were released (I still notice the cats for sale but whatever right?).</p><p>You promised us you would keep the two server concepts apart and you wouldn't put items with stats on the live servers. And all along you knew you were being dishonest about it. Nothing on the planet makes a customer madder than being lied to.</p><p>Stop with the spin, man up and be honest with us, and we will promise to be honest with you. We might even learn to respect one another, but man have you sure started off on the wrong foot so far and its going to be a long time till you pull yourself back out of the hole GU57 has put you.</p>

[LardLord]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>To go a step further, we'll be removing the current Standard Mounts from the marketplace in the morning.</p><p>When we add Standard Mounts back in, they will be different than the ones you had previously earned.</p></blockquote><p>Way to go, Smokey!</p><p>I wish we could get an option to turn off station cash on vendors...any possibility to get a "Hide SC items" checkbox for it (that also removes the SC from the currency part of the window) or anything? I have no problem with the station cash button on the exp bar, since it's so easily modded out, but I don't think this vendor stuff can be modded out?</p><p><strong>EDIT: </strong>This might be a great example of where EQ2 should be different from EQ2X.  The whole point to maintaining EQ2 apart from EQ2X is so that players who want to "earn their way" without RMTs can play in an environment that supports that, so why shove the RMT stuff in our faces? Give us the option to avoid it if we want.</p>

[Andok]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Buying my gear instead of adventuring for it kinda makes the game pointless.</p></blockquote><p>Unless you can stand still and earn plat, I don't see how you could buy gear without playing the game.</p></blockquote><p>LOL!  What?  That post speaks volumes.</p>

[MonkeyBob]

<p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Since Smokejumper has been monitoring this thread, let me add -</p><p>What I want to see most on the Marketplace are convenience items that save me time.  For example, harvesting rares is no challenge whatsoever.  It just takes hours and hours of clicking nodes around green-con solo mobs that have no chance of killing me at all.  I would pay good money for rares so I can avoid hours of boring farming and just go to the fun parts of the game.  </p></blockquote><p>You do realise that some people harvest rares to make plat in the game?</p><p>You do realise that being able to buy rares off the marketplace would directly affect their gameplay?</p>

[Wurm]

<p><cite>Izass@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Since Smokejumper has been monitoring this thread, let me add -</p><p>What I want to see most on the Marketplace are convenience items that save me time.  For example, harvesting rares is no challenge whatsoever.  It just takes hours and hours of clicking nodes around green-con solo mobs that have no chance of killing me at all.  I would pay good money for rares so I can avoid hours of boring farming and just go to the fun parts of the game.  </p></blockquote><p>You do realise that some people harvest rares to make plat in the game?</p><p>You do realise that being able to buy rares off the marketplace would directly affect their gameplay?</p></blockquote><p>It sound's like Andok would probably like the new extended servers, they sell rares for $ over there.</p>

[Avirodar]

<p><cite>Tylia@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm a bit mystified why allowing people to have an additional acquisition path for these mounts would upset you. Can you help me out by explaining how this impacts your gameplay in any way?</p></blockquote><p>I'm not her, but I'll give my viewpoint, take it or leave it:</p><p>Some of us have been playing this game since beta.  We have certain expectations.  One of those is that players need to earn their way.  I personally don't like players using their wallets to progress in this game.  It brings real life into my hobby in a way that it never did before.</p><p>These mounts were previously only available via plat and status.  Things you have to acquire in-game through progressing your toon.  You've now totally done away with that and said "Hey you, Mr. Rich Guy, want this mount but don't have enough status and plat, refuse to play the game as intended, no problem dude we take VISA!"</p><p>Sure its <em>only</em> a mount but EQ2's short history shows that when you guys get an inch you take about 13,000 miles.  Nothing makes me believe this will be the first thing this happens to.  Eventually what is to stop you from saying "Hey you, Mr. Rich Guy, want this BP but don't have the ability to kill Rhoen Theer - no problem dude we take VISA!"</p><p>You have SC mounts already.  Why take in-game mounts and add them there too, totally circumventing the need to actually play the game?  What is wrong with people acquiring status and plat if they want a nightmare?  If they want to give you money sell them one of the exclusive SC mounts you already offer.</p><p>You said, and I guess its my fault for believing you, that EQ2x was separate so things like this wouldn't happen.  I know you think our opinions are silly, but they matter to us.  I haven't paid SOE thousands or real life dollars on subs and expansions because I don't care about the game, quite the opposite.</p><p>My only response to you is that if you can't understand why we're passionate about these things maybe you aren't very well suited to leading this team.  I have 100% confidence in your ability to build and grow EQ2x given your experience with RMT but I really doubt your ability to stay true to the history of the real EQ2 and the decisions and explanations you've made since coming here really don't ease my mind at all, and I so badly wish they did.</p></blockquote><p>Gaige stated my sentiments perfectly Mr. Smokejumper.  You promised to keep this kind of stuff on your extended servers and off of live.  You lied.  You are no longer trustworthy in my opinion, and you are quickly destroying what used to be an awesome game.  I will spend my monthly subscription elsewhere.</p><p>I would imagine it doesn't matter much to you though, since you now have your F2P server and all those new "players" to spend all that money on all that "stuff" on the marketplace.  Enjoy.</p></blockquote><p>Agreed.If the staff at SOE can not understand why customer animosity is rising, they are clearly out of touch with the players.The amount of people that have stated they are cancelling subscriptions, that appear to come from different playstyle categories, is of a volume I can not recall seeing before.</p>

[Neiloch]

<p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Izass@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Since Smokejumper has been monitoring this thread, let me add -</p><p>What I want to see most on the Marketplace are convenience items that save me time.  For example, harvesting rares is no challenge whatsoever.  It just takes hours and hours of clicking nodes around green-con solo mobs that have no chance of killing me at all.  I would pay good money for rares so I can avoid hours of boring farming and just go to the fun parts of the game.  </p></blockquote><p>You do realise that some people harvest rares to make plat in the game?</p><p>You do realise that being able to buy rares off the marketplace would directly affect their gameplay?</p></blockquote><p>It sound's like Andok would probably like the new extended servers, they sell rares for $ over there.</p></blockquote><p>I'm confused why he hasn't done it already instead of trying to justify more cash shop stuff for regular EQ2 servers.</p>

[Andok]

<p><cite>Izass@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Since Smokejumper has been monitoring this thread, let me add -</p><p>What I want to see most on the Marketplace are convenience items that save me time.  For example, harvesting rares is no challenge whatsoever.  It just takes hours and hours of clicking nodes around green-con solo mobs that have no chance of killing me at all.  I would pay good money for rares so I can avoid hours of boring farming and just go to the fun parts of the game.  </p></blockquote><p>You do realise that some people harvest rares to make plat in the game?</p><p>You do realise that being able to buy rares off the marketplace would directly affect their gameplay?</p></blockquote><p>They could still sell rares to people that don't like RMT.  According to people like you, the vast majority of people hate RMT, so they'll still have plenty of customers.</p>

[Elwin]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Finora@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Torvos wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm a bit mystified why allowing people to have an additional acquisition path for these mounts would upset you. Can you help me out by explaining how this impacts your gameplay in any way?</p></blockquote><p>We were always told that the guild requirement for status items had to stay to reward guilds for working hard to increase thier levels.  Those mounts used to symbol that you earned them through helping a guild level up, which wasn't something that you could do over night. Now I can pop out my creditcard and just pay for them.  It's a major impact to my gameplay knowng that I spent weeks grinding writs to buy those mounts, when  now you can just pop out a creditcard and buy them. </p><p>I understand you truely don't care, and that this is the business model you plan to run. Please don't pretend that it doesn't matter, or that it doesn't effect us though.</p></blockquote></blockquote><p>Let me address the "you truly don't care" comment first. That's false. I wouldn't have asked the question if I didn't care. I asked because I sincerely wanted to discuss things.</p><p>I get what you're saying about the fact that you earned it and don't want others to buy it. I'll go talk to the team about it. Maybe we'll do something like make the Standard Mounts in the marketplace slightly different so that they're not the same item.</p><p>No guarantees, but I do hear what you're saying here. Thanks.</p></blockquote><p>You care how exactly what we think?</p><p>Why don't you visit the 200+ page EQX thread and answer some questions there.</p><p>You're having your fun with money grabbing EQX, how about you stop dumbing down EQ2 in the process before you lose all your long suffering customers. Kkthks.</p>

[Munu]

<p>It's good that you do seem to be hearing what folks are saying now SJ. Thank you.</p><p>For me, and many others, the adding of RMT to my ingame experince via in game vendors has been a step too far. You DID tell us this would not happen on live servers. My guild was in uproar over this and I know at least 3 members have posted their goodbyes on our forums already.</p><p>I actually could live with F2P/RMT in game if it meant that we would see new players on our servers. I wouldn't particularly like it, but I think I could tolerate it. I think you would earn a lot more respect from your player base by being honest and upfront about it, instead of trying to gradually slip it in bit by bit, all the time denying it's an issue.</p><p>I would much prefer not to open my in game vendor window and have station cash RMT shoved in my face. I come to this game to get away from that type of cynical money grabbing. I know where the marketplace is if I choose to use it.</p><p>Either go F2P on live servers or take RMT off the in game vendors and 1) I might consider renewing my sub, 2) you'd earn some respect for being honest.</p><p>You have shown you can listen to your player base, but you have neatly sidestepped the RMT on in-game vendors issue, which for me is bigger than any other single issue in this update.</p>

[Andok]

<p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Izass@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Since Smokejumper has been monitoring this thread, let me add -</p><p>What I want to see most on the Marketplace are convenience items that save me time.  For example, harvesting rares is no challenge whatsoever.  It just takes hours and hours of clicking nodes around green-con solo mobs that have no chance of killing me at all.  I would pay good money for rares so I can avoid hours of boring farming and just go to the fun parts of the game.  </p></blockquote><p>You do realise that some people harvest rares to make plat in the game?</p><p>You do realise that being able to buy rares off the marketplace would directly affect their gameplay?</p></blockquote><p>It sound's like Andok would probably like the new extended servers, they sell rares for $ over there.</p></blockquote><p>Honestly, I wouldn't care if they switched to full on RMT or if they removed the Marketplace and LoN loot entirely. </p>

[Rijacki]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p> <blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm a bit mystified why allowing people to have an additional acquisition path for these mounts would upset you. Can you help me out by explaining how this impacts your gameplay in any way?</p></blockquote><p>I'm not her, but I'll give my viewpoint, take it or leave it:</p><p>Some of us have been playing this game since beta.  We have certain expectations.  One of those is that players need to earn their way.  I personally don't like players using their wallets to progress in this game.  It brings real life into my hobby in a way that it never did before.</p><p>These mounts were previously only available via plat and status.  Things you have to acquire in-game through progressing your toon.  You've now totally done away with that and said "Hey you, Mr. Rich Guy, want this mount but don't have enough status and plat, refuse to play the game as intended, no problem dude we take VISA!"</p><p>Sure its <em>only</em> a mount but EQ2's short history shows that when you guys get an inch you take about 13,000 miles.  Nothing makes me believe this will be the first thing this happens to.  Eventually what is to stop you from saying "Hey you, Mr. Rich Guy, want this BP but don't have the ability to kill Rhoen Theer - no problem dude we take VISA!"</p><p>You have SC mounts already.  Why take in-game mounts and add them there too, totally circumventing the need to actually play the game?  What is wrong with people acquiring status and plat if they want a nightmare?  If they want to give you money sell them one of the exclusive SC mounts you already offer.</p><p>You said, and I guess its my fault for believing you, that EQ2x was separate so things like this wouldn't happen.  I know you think our opinions are silly, but they matter to us.  I haven't paid SOE thousands or real life dollars on subs and expansions because I don't care about the game, quite the opposite.</p><p>My only response to you is that if you can't understand why we're passionate about these things maybe you aren't very well suited to leading this team.  I have 100% confidence in your ability to build and grow EQ2x given your experience with RMT but I really doubt your ability to stay true to the history of the real EQ2 and the decisions and explanations you've made since coming here really don't ease my mind at all, and I so badly wish they did.</p></blockquote> <p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p> <blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I just want to add that people that claim "players need to earn their way" only mean that when it comes to buying items with real-life money.  They're fine with twinking alts, giving looting rights to folks that didn't kill a mob, selling epic updates to non-raiders, and every other way people get stuff in game without really "earning it".</p><p>Honestly, it always seemed like a class envy issue to me.</p></blockquote><p>I'm fine with those things because each of them requires someone playing the game.</p><p>You can't sell loot rights without someone forming a raid and killing the mob, ie playing the game as intended.</p><p>you can't twink alts without someone playing the game and getting the items, ie playing the game as intended.</p><p>You can't sell epic updates to players without killing the mobs that update the epic quests, ie playing the game as intended.</p><p>All of those things require a player playing the game to earn in-game currency which they use to buy the service of other players who are accomplishing in-game tasks.</p><p>Those things have existed as long as MMOs have existed and are the foundation of the in-game economies of these persistent worlds.</p><p>What I'm talking about removes the playing the game as intended requirement and replaces it with pay SOE real life money.  That is what I and tons of other players have issue with.</p><p>For instance, everybody and their mother on Unrest can want to pay 5,000 plat for a Venomous Vest of the Godslayer off Evil Rhoen Theer, but nobody can buy it because no one on our server has killed that mob yet.  So the service doesn't exist.  If SOE sold those BPs on the SC store the in-game requirement would cease to exist.</p><p>Comparing them isn't the same.  One is part of playing MMOs and the other isn't.  The other in fact presents the opportunity to totally bypass playing the game at all.  It turns it into a glorified chat room where you can continually charge your VISA to outfit your "sim".</p></blockquote> <p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Since you seem to be ok with someone "earning" something by clicking a chest if someone else makes the chest drop, then you should be fine with someone buying any item as long as someone somewhere "earned it".</p></blockquote><p>I guess, in the end, I just want people to have to play the game to earn things.  RMT removes that requirement, thus I don't like it for anything other than statless appearance items.</p></blockquote><p>I think Hell just froze over in August (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell,_Nord-Tr%C3%B8ndelag" target="_blank">it wasn't due to freeze for a few months yet</a>)! I not only agree completely and utterly with Gaige and am impressed by the way eloquent way he phrased it.</p><p>I -did- have improving optimism coming from Fan Faire about SJ wanting to keep the subscription service strong, but yesterday and today shook that glimmer of optimism to it's very core.</p><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>To go a step further, we'll be removing the current Standard Mounts from the marketplace in the morning.</p><p>When we add Standard Mounts back in, they will be different than the ones you had previously earned.</p></blockquote><p>This, the response on SA accounts (even though it's only a promise to talk to the guy.. something that should have been done a long while ago, mind you), and the response on the /camp [character] are working towards restoring some of that optimism. But, these are just baby steps, we're not fully walking yet.</p>

[Maroger]

<p>Those mounts you all are whining about are no long the best mounts in the game. I see no reason they should be purchaseable with SC --</p><p>Players today want to ride around on Disks -- you don't see those mounts much in the game. I think they should be left as they are on SC.</p><p>The best Horse mount in the game is the Rime Horse - and you see that a whole lot more than you see the others. People should stop whining about. It doesn't affect your game any more than people who got a 65% speed mount by buying the collectors edition of SF.</p><p>As for the Evac potion - I love it - am never without it. Saves my bacon plenty. Great idea and so is the tracking potion. WHo wants to run to a location to see if a mob is up and find it isn't -- It is a time saver and am glad to see it.</p>

[Wurm]

<p><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Those mounts you all are whining about are no long the best mounts in the game. I see no reason they should be purchaseable with SC --</p><p>Players today want to ride around on Disks -- you don't see those mounts much in the game. I think they should be left as they are on SC.</p><p>The best Horse mount in the game is the Rime Horse - and you see that a whole lot more than you see the others. People should stop whining about. It doesn't affect your game any more than people who got a 65% speed mount by buying the collectors edition of SF.</p><p>As for the Evac potion - I love it - am never without it. Saves my bacon plenty. Great idea and so is the tracking potion. WHo wants to run to a location to see if a mob is up and find it isn't -- It is a time saver and am glad to see it.</p></blockquote><p>The EQ2extended forums are over there ----></p>

[PlaneCrazy]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Portree@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Sorry Smokejumper...</p><p>This thread has not only been discussing your attempt to remove content fron live servers and sell it for RMT, but also the breaking of your clear promise to the live server community that we would not see items for sale for SC outside the marketplace browser. You have broken this promise on the first day of EQ2X. THE FIRST DAY!!</p><p>While I welcome the fact that you have decided to replace the content you removed from the game, that is only one part of our huge concern about broken promises and the future of our live server RMT free environment.</p></blockquote><p>Never said that. Sorry that you heard it that way.</p><p>I've never said that we wouldn't sell items, either with stats or not. I did go on record as saying that the one of the main reasons we set up a separate service was that our current EQII Live players didn't want items with stats associated with them in the marketplace.</p><p>But mounts have always been excluded from that discussion because they already exist on the marketplace, and these particular mounts are a) already in the game, and b) don't have stats as good as the other ones we already sell.</p><p>No promises were broken here.</p></blockquote><p>OK, I have a very simple Yes or No type question for you. Take a look at the screen cap of a new vendor in the reworked Gorowyn below and answer me this.... Will adornments be available for sale from NPC vendors eventually?  And if so, will they also have a Station Cash option as well (on the Live servers)</p><p><img src="http://www.ridecanada.org/planecrazy/jeweler.jpg" /></p>

[Elwin]

<p><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Those mounts you all are whining about are no long the best mounts in the game. I see no reason they should be purchaseable with SC --</p><p>Players today want to ride around on Disks -- you don't see those mounts much in the game. I think they should be left as they are on SC.</p><p>The best Horse mount in the game is the Rime Horse - and you see that a whole lot more than you see the others. People should stop whining about. It doesn't affect your game any more than people who got a 65% speed mount by buying the collectors edition of SF.</p><p>As for the Evac potion - I love it - am never without it. Saves my bacon plenty. Great idea and so is the tracking potion. WHo wants to run to a location to see if a mob is up and find it isn't -- It is a time saver and am glad to see it.</p></blockquote><p>Well good for you. I for one think the discs are as ugly as hell and I wouldn't be seen dead on one.</p><p>We play on EQ2 and pay to play it, we are not on EQX where everything is about who has the biggest wallet or highest credit card limit. </p><p>It affects people like this. When I level an alt and I want to buy the Nightmare that all my toons have had because I love the look of it, I can't unless I pay CASH for it. Say goodbye to saving status and plat for it.</p><p>It also affects people as we are watch the game we've played for years be dumbed down bit by bit and changed for $oE's new baby EQX. We were told it would not affect EQ2, well fail it already has.</p><p>Things change and people say they're leaving on a regular basis, but, I'm more than sure this time $oE will see a lot of subs lost. I for one hope EQX falls flat on it's face because it will be too late for them to get their paying customers back. </p><p>SJ = the death of EQ2</p>

[Tylia]

<p><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Those mounts you all are whining about are no long the best mounts in the game. I see no reason they should be purchaseable with SC --</p><p>Players today want to ride around on Disks -- you don't see those mounts much in the game. I think they should be left as they are on SC.</p><p>The best Horse mount in the game is the Rime Horse - and you see that a whole lot more than you see the others. People should stop whining about. It doesn't affect your game any more than people who got a 65% speed mount by buying the collectors edition of SF.</p><p>As for the Evac potion - I love it - am never without it. Saves my bacon plenty. Great idea and so is the tracking potion. WHo wants to run to a location to see if a mob is up and find it isn't -- It is a time saver and am glad to see it.</p></blockquote><p>The fact that these mounts are no longer the "best mounts in the game" is not the point.  They are mounts that were already in the game and required status and plat to buy, as well as specific guild level, and they have stats.  They were "removed" from the game (so to speak) and placed on the SC list.  It was promised by Smokejumper himself that this type of thing would not happen.  He lied.</p><p>As for the Rime Ice Mare, what would stop them from placing that mount on to the SC list next?  I spent many, many, MANY, hours grinding the faction needed on two characters to buy that mount.  It's not "the best" mount in the game now that the disc's are available for those in a lvl 90 guild, so why not just add it to the SC list?  Isn't that what you are saying?  If it's not the "best", what difference does it make, right? (Yeah, that last question was sarcasm.. in case you didn't "get" it)</p><p>You do realize that statements such as you made are like a slap in the face to all of the people that put in the time, effort and work to earn the required guild level and personal status to be able to purchase those mounts.  Are you truly that callous?  I think the F2P server would be the perfect place for you to play.</p>

[Maroger]

<p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Those mounts you all are whining about are no long the best mounts in the game. I see no reason they should be purchaseable with SC --</p><p>Players today want to ride around on Disks -- you don't see those mounts much in the game. I think they should be left as they are on SC.</p><p>The best Horse mount in the game is the Rime Horse - and you see that a whole lot more than you see the others. People should stop whining about. It doesn't affect your game any more than people who got a 65% speed mount by buying the collectors edition of SF.</p><p>As for the Evac potion - I love it - am never without it. Saves my bacon plenty. Great idea and so is the tracking potion. WHo wants to run to a location to see if a mob is up and find it isn't -- It is a time saver and am glad to see it.</p></blockquote><p>The EQ2extended forums are over there ----></p></blockquote><p>Buying these mounts on SC is no worse than people that joined high level guilds bought a mount and left  -- and that happened lots of time. So I really don't understand your point.</p><p>Players got these mounts without "earning" them but paying for them with plats - so I fail to see the difference.  As I say they are no longer the best mounts in the game so I don't understand all the bellyaching going on.</p><p>IT DOESN'T AFFECT YOUR GAMEPLAY IN THE LEAST.</p>

[Maroger]

<p><cite>Tylia@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Those mounts you all are whining about are no long the best mounts in the game. I see no reason they should be purchaseable with SC --</p><p>Players today want to ride around on Disks -- you don't see those mounts much in the game. I think they should be left as they are on SC.</p><p>The best Horse mount in the game is the Rime Horse - and you see that a whole lot more than you see the others. People should stop whining about. It doesn't affect your game any more than people who got a 65% speed mount by buying the collectors edition of SF.</p><p>As for the Evac potion - I love it - am never without it. Saves my bacon plenty. Great idea and so is the tracking potion. WHo wants to run to a location to see if a mob is up and find it isn't -- It is a time saver and am glad to see it.</p></blockquote><p>The fact that these mounts are no longer the "best mounts in the game" is not the point.  They are mounts that were already in the game and required status and plat to buy, as well as specific guild level, and they have stats.  They were "removed" from the game (so to speak) and placed on the SC list.  It was promised by Smokejumper himself that this type of thing would not happen.  He lied.</p><p>As for the Rime Ice Mare, what would stop them from placing that mount on to the SC list next?  I spent many, many, MANY, hours grinding the faction needed on two characters to buy that mount.  It's not "the best" mount in the game now that the disc's are available for those in a lvl 90 guild, so why not just add it to the SC list?  Isn't that what you are saying?  If it's not the "best", what difference does it make, right? (Yeah, that last question was sarcasm.. in case you didn't "get" it)</p><p>You do realize that statements such as you made are like a slap in the face to all of the people that put in the time, effort and work to earn the required guild level and personal status to be able to purchase those mounts.  Are you truly that callous?  I think the F2P server would be the perfect place for you to play.</p></blockquote><p>I just can't get all excited about people buying a mount for SC or PLATS. The purpose of mounts mostly is for you to travel quickly. The wee bit of stats you get are so minimal they are laughable.</p><p>If you want to talk stats and mounts talk about the raid drop mounts - not these mounts you get for guild status - they are trivial.</p><p>Again I feel to see the commotion - it is a kindergarten squable. If people want to buy the mount for SC I don't see any problem -- it is no worse than the Ulteran Prowlers or the Highland Stalker you got for buying the Collectors Edition. If they put the Rime Mare on SC I wouldn't cry about it --- If SC makes money for the company that is a good thing and means we get more and better expansions and GU's in this game.</p><p>The gaming world is changing and SOE must change with it and so must old-fashioned players who think you should play 24/7 to get something. Few people have that kind of time anymore and the player base is no longer teenagers with time on their hands to do these things.  They should add Mercs also to this game like they did in EQLIVE. These things on SC help make the game more fun for more players and that is a very, very good thing.</p>

[Paddyo]

<p><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Those mounts you all are whining about are no long the best mounts in the game. I see no reason they should be purchaseable with SC --</p><p>Players today want to ride around on Disks -- you don't see those mounts much in the game. I think they should be left as they are on SC.</p><p>The best Horse mount in the game is the Rime Horse - and you see that a whole lot more than you see the others. People should stop whining about. It doesn't affect your game any more than people who got a 65% speed mount by buying the collectors edition of SF.</p><p>As for the Evac potion - I love it - am never without it. Saves my bacon plenty. Great idea and so is the tracking potion. WHo wants to run to a location to see if a mob is up and find it isn't -- It is a time saver and am glad to see it.</p></blockquote><p>The EQ2extended forums are over there ----></p></blockquote><p>Buying these mounts on SC is no worse than people that joined high level guilds bought a mount and left  -- and that happened lots of time. So I really don't understand your point.</p><p>Players got these mounts without "earning" them but paying for them with plats - so I fail to see the difference.  As I say they are no longer the best mounts in the game so I don't understand all the bellyaching going on.</p><p>IT DOESN'T AFFECT YOUR GAMEPLAY IN THE LEAST.</p></blockquote><p>If something 3 days ago could be purchased in game for staus and plat, and today cannot be purchased by those methods but CAN be purchased with $tationca$h, then it DOES AFFECT YOUR GAMEPLAY.  I for one wouldn't care if they wanted to offer these mounts BOTH ways, bot for status and plat OR $C, but anytime an in game item that wasn't available for real life cash before is now ONLY available for real life cash, we are heading down a slippery slope.</p><p>And why be surprised, anyone, that you were lied to.  They sat at Fan Faire and pretended they cared about the playerbase's feelings.  We are the ugly playerbase being taken home only because the bar is about to close, and tomorrow, when the sun comes up, they will have left us for free to play and her witchy ways.</p>

[Murryha]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>To go a step further, we'll be removing the current Standard Mounts from the marketplace in the morning.</p><p>When we add Standard Mounts back in, they will be different than the ones you had previously earned.</p></blockquote><p>Yep..they will be different alright.  I am willing to bet they will have better stats.   That would, of course, make them different than the ones my Guildmates and I worked so hard to earn by leveling up our Guild so we could purchase them.</p><p>Anyone care to guess the SC price of a level 90 Guild?  God forbid folks would have to earn the right (actually play the game!) to have one when they have a Visa card.</p><p>So disappointed.</p>

[Myster]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Let me address the "you truly don't care" comment first. That's false. I wouldn't have asked the question if I didn't care. I asked because I sincerely wanted to discuss things.</p><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>I get what you're saying</strong></span> about the fact that you earned it and don't want others to buy it. I'll go talk to the team about it. Maybe we'll do something like make the Standard Mounts in the marketplace slightly different so that they're not the same item.</p><p>No guarantees, but I do hear what you're saying here. Thanks.</p></blockquote><p>No, no you do not.</p>

[Ulrazaj]

<p>I don't really care how people get their mounts, what I do care about is that on the live servers merchants sell things for SC, let those of us that do not want to spend more money on top of the subscription price not have to see SC on vendors, market place is fine.  Additionally, if you feel like being really generous to your existing live players, remove the SC advertising from the welcome screen and give additional real estate to the useful parts of the window, such as friends online etc.  If this isn't done, I'll just have to mod the welcome screen completely out all together.  This is probably the one and only time I'm going to go through such trouble to remove SC from my life, if its shoved down my throat any further I'll be cancelling my account.</p>

[Kardokis]

<p><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If SC makes money for the company that is a good thing and means we get more and better expansions and GU's in this game.</p></blockquote><p>[citation needed]</p>

[NamaeZero]

<p><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Those mounts you all are whining about are no long the best mounts in the game. I see no reason they should be purchaseable with SC --</p><p>Players today want to ride around on Disks -- you don't see those mounts much in the game. I think they should be left as they are on SC.</p><p>The best Horse mount in the game is the Rime Horse - and you see that a whole lot more than you see the others. People should stop whining about. It doesn't affect your game any more than people who got a 65% speed mount by buying the collectors edition of SF.</p><p>As for the Evac potion - I love it - am never without it. Saves my bacon plenty. Great idea and so is the tracking potion. WHo wants to run to a location to see if a mob is up and find it isn't -- It is a time saver and am glad to see it.</p></blockquote><p>I have a question then.. why in the world are you buying the evac potion, when there's an Evac totem (Totem of Escape) on the broker that sells for like 5gp? Is it possibly because the marketplace makes it more visible so you didn't even know other options exist?</p><p>People do a lot of things for a lot of reasons. Just because the horses are not the fastest mounts around doesn't mean no one will ever want to use them. Personally, I *hate* how the disks look. If the best mount in the game was a 85% speed disk, I'd still stick with the Rime icemare because it looks awesome, and I had to bust my tail to get it.</p><p>At least when I see someone else with an icemare, I know they had to go through something similiar to get it. If they sold the icemare on the Marketplace, then I can no longer feel that connection and sense of pride in accomplishment. It's like if someone started handing out free, limitless gold to anyone that wanted some. The value of gold would drop to almost nothing overnight. By giving out (or in this case, selling with RL cash) horses to people that didn't earn them you cheapen the accomplishment of EVERYONE that ever earned them the way they were supposed to.</p>

[Wurm]

<p>Better GUs? Like the one we just had? No Thanks.</p>

[Wurm]

<p><cite>NamaeZero wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Those mounts you all are whining about are no long the best mounts in the game. I see no reason they should be purchaseable with SC --</p><p>Players today want to ride around on Disks -- you don't see those mounts much in the game. I think they should be left as they are on SC.</p><p>The best Horse mount in the game is the Rime Horse - and you see that a whole lot more than you see the others. People should stop whining about. It doesn't affect your game any more than people who got a 65% speed mount by buying the collectors edition of SF.</p><p>As for the Evac potion - I love it - am never without it. Saves my bacon plenty. Great idea and so is the tracking potion. WHo wants to run to a location to see if a mob is up and find it isn't -- It is a time saver and am glad to see it.</p></blockquote><p>I have a question then.. why in the world are you buying the evac potion, when there's an Evac totem (Totem of Escape) on the broker that sells for like 5gp? Is it possibly because the marketplace makes it more visible so you didn't even know other options exist?</p></blockquote><p>The difference is, the one on the market place works in combat, the totem does not.</p>

[Elwin]

<p><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Those mounts you all are whining about are no long the best mounts in the game. I see no reason they should be purchaseable with SC --</p><p>Players today want to ride around on Disks -- you don't see those mounts much in the game. I think they should be left as they are on SC.</p><p>The best Horse mount in the game is the Rime Horse - and you see that a whole lot more than you see the others. People should stop whining about. It doesn't affect your game any more than people who got a 65% speed mount by buying the collectors edition of SF.</p><p>As for the Evac potion - I love it - am never without it. Saves my bacon plenty. Great idea and so is the tracking potion. WHo wants to run to a location to see if a mob is up and find it isn't -- It is a time saver and am glad to see it.</p></blockquote><p>The EQ2extended forums are over there ----></p></blockquote><p>Buying these mounts on SC is no worse than people that joined high level guilds bought a mount and left  -- and that happened lots of time. So I really don't understand your point.</p><p>Players got these mounts without "earning" them but paying for them with plats - so I fail to see the difference.  As I say they are no longer the best mounts in the game so I don't understand all the bellyaching going on.</p><p>IT DOESN'T AFFECT YOUR GAMEPLAY IN THE LEAST.</p></blockquote><p>It affects my game play tbh. So why don't you go and troll EQX forums.</p>

[Tylia]

<p><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite> </cite></p><p>Buying these mounts on SC is no worse than people that joined high level guilds bought a mount and left  -- and that happened lots of time. So I really don't understand your point.</p><p>Players got these mounts without "earning" them but paying for them with plats - so I fail to see the difference.  As I say they are no longer the best mounts in the game so I don't understand all the bellyaching going on.</p><p>IT DOESN'T AFFECT YOUR GAMEPLAY IN THE LEAST.</p></blockquote><p>Correction.. possibly it doesn't affect YOUR gameplay in the least.  It DOES affect mine.  And, the "plats" had to be "earned" as well as the personal status required for the purchase, so yes.. they did EARN them.  Really.. EQ2X would be a perfect server for you.  Maybe you should give it a try.</p>

[Jacra]

<p>It is like watching a trainwreck.</p><p>I hadn't expected it to be SO bad. Shatters any remaining hopes it might turn around, SOE gets to reason and I can re-sub somewhere later again. Now I feel even more pity that I just extended before the EQ2X announcement - and cancelling some days ago means I still lost that money and won't play anymore anyway ... <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I miss "my" game. Reading this stuff here though just reminds me that "my" game doesn't exist anymore and who knows what this "new" EQ2 will turn into. I find it unbelievable though that they add more stat-items (I consider the tracking thing a stat thing, stats or abilities, all the same when it has impact on gameplay), the outcry makes them paddle back to a certain degree when it comes to mounts. But basically nobody knows what will be the final result of this. And people are so desperate and helpless that they say "thank you" for this. We've gone a long way in a short time already, hm? *shakes head in sadness*</p>

[Tylia]

<p><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tylia@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Those mounts you all are whining about are no long the best mounts in the game. I see no reason they should be purchaseable with SC --</p><p>Players today want to ride around on Disks -- you don't see those mounts much in the game. I think they should be left as they are on SC.</p><p>The best Horse mount in the game is the Rime Horse - and you see that a whole lot more than you see the others. People should stop whining about. It doesn't affect your game any more than people who got a 65% speed mount by buying the collectors edition of SF.</p><p>As for the Evac potion - I love it - am never without it. Saves my bacon plenty. Great idea and so is the tracking potion. WHo wants to run to a location to see if a mob is up and find it isn't -- It is a time saver and am glad to see it.</p></blockquote><p>The fact that these mounts are no longer the "best mounts in the game" is not the point.  They are mounts that were already in the game and required status and plat to buy, as well as specific guild level, and they have stats.  They were "removed" from the game (so to speak) and placed on the SC list.  It was promised by Smokejumper himself that this type of thing would not happen.  He lied.</p><p>As for the Rime Ice Mare, what would stop them from placing that mount on to the SC list next?  I spent many, many, MANY, hours grinding the faction needed on two characters to buy that mount.  It's not "the best" mount in the game now that the disc's are available for those in a lvl 90 guild, so why not just add it to the SC list?  Isn't that what you are saying?  If it's not the "best", what difference does it make, right? (Yeah, that last question was sarcasm.. in case you didn't "get" it)</p><p>You do realize that statements such as you made are like a slap in the face to all of the people that put in the time, effort and work to earn the required guild level and personal status to be able to purchase those mounts.  Are you truly that callous?  I think the F2P server would be the perfect place for you to play.</p></blockquote><p>I just can't get all excited about people buying a mount for SC or PLATS. The purpose of mounts mostly is for you to travel quickly. The wee bit of stats you get are so minimal they are laughable.</p><p>If you want to talk stats and mounts talk about the raid drop mounts - <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>not these mounts you get for guild status - they are trivial.</strong></span></p><p>Again I feel to see the commotion - it is a kindergarten squable. If people want to buy the mount for SC I don't see any problem -- it is no worse than the Ulteran Prowlers or the Highland Stalker you got for buying the Collectors Edition. <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>If they put the Rime Mare on SC I wouldn't cry about it</strong></span> --- If SC makes money for the company that is a good thing and means we get more and better expansions and GU's in this game.</p><p>The gaming world is changing and SOE must change with it and so must old-fashioned players who think you should play 24/7 to get something. Few people have that kind of time anymore and the <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>player base is no longer teenagers with time on their hands to do these things.</strong></span>  They should add Mercs also to this game like they did in EQLIVE. These things on SC help make the game more fun for more players and that is a very, very good thing.</p></blockquote><p>How many guilds have you helped to level up to the required level to be able to purchase a mount?  How many characters have you put in time and effort on writ grinding to accumulate enough personal status to purchase a mount?</p><p>How many Rime mounts have you taken the time and effort to earn the right to buy?</p><p>And wow, are you ever misinformed about the veteran playerbase of this game!!!</p>

[BabyAngel]

<p>It affects my guild progression, when mounts vanish.</p>

[Saieno]

<p>So I've read this whole thread and I'm new to the forums so maybe this is a stupid question but...if it's a regular server why have anything RMT in it? Wasn't that the point of separating the Live Gamer servers from each other?</p><p>This whole thing is the most unorganized mess I've ever witnessed. Don't do this hybrid crap, have standard server and cash shop servers, or just do what you're planning on anyway and get rid of the standard servers but don't try to mix in subscription methods.</p><p>What happened SOE? All the good devs leave for RIFT? Sure seems that way...</p>

[Elwin]

<p><cite>Saieno wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So I've read this whole thread and I'm new to the forums so maybe this is a stupid question but...if it's a regular server why have anything RMT in it? Wasn't that the point of separating the Live Gamer servers from each other?</p><p>This whole thing is the most unorganized mess I've ever witnessed. Don't do this hybrid crap, have standard server and cash shop servers, or just do what you're planning on anyway and get rid of the standard servers but don't try to mix in subscription methods.</p><p>What happened SOE? All the good devs leave for RIFT? Sure seems that way...</p></blockquote><p>To squeeze every last cent out of anyone who feels the need to spend $ on Marketplace crap I'd imagine. </p><p>RMT is working as intended. We value your input.</p><p>Doubt it's the Devs leaving for Rift, but I'm [Removed for Content] sure a lot of the players will be.</p>

[Steve11418]

<p>Some compromise is required from both sides. I think many good points have been made.Eq2 is an MMO and for an MMO to be effective it requires many players.Having played since launch I had the opportunity to level up with a guild with many players in my level range and earn copper, silver, gold and eventually plat and status… I saved up and purchased my first mount… it was a great accomplishment.I remember harvesting my first 2 silver rare nodes and selling them on the broker for 5g each. I then handed out gold coins to my friends like I was some kind of king!But you know what, those days are over…. New players will never experience what we did… not until they reach level cap and earn current tier accomplishments with us veterans.So if people want to use their wallets to buy previous tiers items, rare harvests and mounts then that is ok… whatever gets them playing with me faster.On current tier items and activities (such as selling loot rights, or getting quest updates), then the community should set the cost (in terms of plat) of those items.The one stipulation should be that all SC items (except appearance and fluff) should also be earnable in game.My preferred model would be F2P level 1 to 80 with full SC, and subscription 81 to 90 with NO SC items in that level range.I would also agree to services being sold on SC for the entire level range such as, Character transfers, race change, name change, gender change, and additional character slots.</p>

[Glenolas]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The mounts are going to be replaced back into the vendors (stable masters). That will occur in Tuesday's hotfix.</p><p>They'll still be available as Standard Mounts in the marketplace also, but will be available at their regular plat/status prices in the vendors as well.</p><p>NOTE: Since there are actually two instances of those mounts, when you're looking at the stable master, you'll see one entry for plat/status, and one entry for SC. Choose whichever one you desire.</p></blockquote><p>I'm on Guk.   Are we suddenly exchange servers now?  What happened to the "I heard you loud and clear, no stat changing items on legacy servers."   I'll dig up your exact quote if you have trouble remembering it.I understand you haven't played the game very long, or very far into it, so may not understand a "meaningful" stat, so as an example try changing the station cash mounts  run speed stats to 0% and see how many you sell.   Nobody in the game thinks 65% runspeed on a mount isn't significant.  </p><p>You owe some further explanation for sneaking it in also.   How did this little gem miss the patch notes?   The previews with the bloggers?</p>

[Kardokis]

<p><cite>Steve11418 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The one stipulation should be that all SC items <strong>(except appearance and fluff) </strong>should also be earnable in game.</p></blockquote><p>Why?</p>

[Shareana]

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=445320&post_id=5395579" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=44532...post_id=5395579</a> Insults are NOT needed to have your viewpoint and thoughts seen.

[Glenolas]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tylia@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p></blockquote><p>I'm a bit mystified why allowing people to have an additional acquisition path for these mounts would upset you. Can you help me out by explaining how this impacts your gameplay in any way?</p></blockquote><p>We are mystified why your first official GU produced ZERO content.   Zero!   I have never played any MMO ever where a 4 month update produced ZERO content!   Why did you do produce that.  Is that your vision for the game??</p><p>No problem, says you.   We don't happen to have time to make content for you legacy servers.   Open your wallet and buy some goodies.   Never mind playing for them, that's so old school.   Save dev time, who needs dungeons?  Just buy the loot, go away for 3 months, come back and buy more.  </p><p>The last update, a for pay level shifting update, had exactly 12 dungeons,  while the previous one had 25.   So we start 13 dungeons short for the same money, expecting a scramble to make more content for the content starved level 90's, and we get ZERO from you.    Mystified?   Ever play an adventure game with no content?</p>

[Gargamel]

<p>Everyone just needs to RELAX.</p><p>This is obviously just another step.</p><p>Before there was NOTHING that would affect gameplay in the store.</p><p>Then there was stuff in the store that affects gameplay, starves the live servers of new players, but the new stuff is only on the 'new' servers</p><p>Then some new stuff is on the live servers but also available on the store.</p><p>It won't be long until the mastercrafted and other store items are added to live servers... the only question is will the live servers die first.</p><p>To be honest alot of these changes, the station cash in the broker, the mount steal/swap the xp RaF nerf and buff of SC potions, the MANDATORY smedbucks icon, the EQX server themselves, the removal of the trail, the soga models, the WoW spell effects... what they VERY CLEARLY INDICATE (don't bull$hit us sharkjumper) is that eq as we know it is dead, whatever we say, whatever we do, will not make ANY difference at all.  Station Cash is the new game, and WoW is the new facade to model.  Decisions have been made and the current player can suck it.</p><p>Thanks.</p>

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>Wouldnt it be great if we actually had an update that <strong>didnt</strong> get people outraged? One where a change is made that actually has 90% of the forum goers jumping for joy instead of venting rage. I cant remember the last time that happened.</p>

[TheSpin]

Maybe some of you on the most recent pages here missed Smokejumper's response. He's removing the mounts from the marketplace that match the mounts currently in game. There will be other mounts added, but they will be a bit different in appearance. For most of us, the ability to visually distinguish between a SC mount and an earned mount is all we wanted and completely fulfills the point of 'THIS' thread. If you want to talk about other RMT/SC issues, there are other threads for that.

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>I've nothing specific against station cash per se. I'm not all that bothered about items being buyable that you can earn but I am against removing the option to earn it. So at least SJ is doing the right thing here.</p><p>What I cannot stand is the amount of resources that go into SC but not into the game proper. Putting the new dark elf armour on SC while all this controversy is raging was a tactless move when the LU had virtually no in-game added content.</p><p>All in all I'm glad I gave SOE a 24 hr benefit of the doubt over this. I'm still subbed - for now at any rate though the new animations have prompted me to change my current main as I cannot play my Templar any more with such bad effects.</p>

[Glenolas]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Finora@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite> </cite></p></blockquote><p>Let me address the "you truly don't care" comment first. That's false. I wouldn't have asked the question if I didn't care. I asked because I sincerely wanted to discuss things.</p><p>I get what you're saying about the fact that you earned it and don't want others to buy it. I'll go talk to the team about it. Maybe we'll do something like make the Standard Mounts in the marketplace slightly different so that they're not the same item.</p><p>No guarantees, but I do hear what you're saying here. Thanks.</p></blockquote><p>You missed the message, methinks deliberately.  It's called "obfuspeak".   You are pretending to get the message and saying maybe to  a minor change.</p><p>The message of this entire thread:  GET <strong>ALL</strong> THE STATION CASH MERCHANDISE <strong>COMPLETELY OFF</strong> THE LEGACY SERVERS.</p><p>You pledged to have seperate servers for those who want to buy their progress for cash.   Make it so.</p>

[CorpseGoddess]

<p><cite>Glenolas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Finora@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite> </cite></p></blockquote><p>Let me address the "you truly don't care" comment first. That's false. I wouldn't have asked the question if I didn't care. I asked because I sincerely wanted to discuss things.</p><p>I get what you're saying about the fact that you earned it and don't want others to buy it. I'll go talk to the team about it. Maybe we'll do something like make the Standard Mounts in the marketplace slightly different so that they're not the same item.</p><p>No guarantees, but I do hear what you're saying here. Thanks.</p></blockquote><p>You missed the message, methinks deliberately.  It's called "obfuspeak".   You are pretending to get the message and saying maybe to  a minor change.</p><p>The message of this entire thread:  GET <strong>ALL</strong> THE STATION CASH MERCHANDISE <strong>COMPLETELY OFF</strong> THE LEGACY SERVERS.</p><p>You pledged to have seperate servers for those who want to buy their progress for cash.   Make it so.</p></blockquote><p>Funny, that's not my message.  I like the marketplace stuff---the appearance armour and the house items and the pets.  But I guess I'm in the minority here.</p><p>I just don't like people speaking for me, I guess.</p>

[Gargamel]

<p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Wouldnt it be great if we actually had an update that <strong>didnt</strong> get people outraged? One where a change is made that actually has 90% of the forum goers jumping for joy instead of venting rage. I cant remember the last time that happened.</p></blockquote><p>Selective reading... I don't recall any GU being such an FU in a long time.</p><p>GU13 (and I was a current subscriber at the time) is the closest.  IF the FU had any content, it might blunt the fact that it was 4 months spent on EQX, a project specifically developed to kill the live servers, which includes offensive changes to the live servers being shoved down the people who invested about $1000 since launch in order to court people to play for free and $2.99 for something that took a month to earn in game, blah blah blah.</p><p>Lets just cut to the chase.... lets sell lvl 90 characters for 49.95... equip them with 'ez mode' T9 raid gear for an extra 20, and t3 hard more gear for 99.95 package.  I mean then can all be earned in game... whats the big deal?  It sure will earn alot of $med bucks for sharkjumper.</p>

[Andok]

<p><cite>Streppoch@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Funny, that's not my message.  I like the marketplace stuff---the appearance armour and the house items and the pets.  But I guess I'm in the minority here.</p><p>I just don't like people speaking for me, I guess.</p></blockquote><p>While you may be in the minority on this forum, I don't think you are in the minority in game.  I see a TON of people with SC items - you can't swing a dead cat without hitting an SC mount or SC appearance armor on my server.  It just seems like you are in the minority here because this is the place people come to post their outrage.  People who enjoy the game are just playing the game.</p>

[Wurm]

<p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Streppoch@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Funny, that's not my message.  I like the marketplace stuff---the appearance armour and the house items and the pets.  But I guess I'm in the minority here.</p><p>I just don't like people speaking for me, I guess.</p></blockquote><p>While you may be in the minority on this forum, I don't think you are in the minority in game.  I see a TON of people with SC items - you can't swing a dead cat without hitting an SC mount or SC appearance armor on my server.  It just seems like you are in the minority here because this is the place people come to post their outrage.  People who enjoy the game are just playing the game.</p></blockquote><p>Seen the cat mount twice and the new cloud mount once on Crushbone. I'm sure there are more but not many. And appearance armor no one has a problem with (other than the price being high, take the new robe for example). </p>

[Tuatha]

<p><cite>Glenolas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You pledged to have seperate servers for those who want to buy their progress for cash.   Make it so.</p></blockquote><p>This.</p>

[Andok]

<p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Streppoch@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Funny, that's not my message.  I like the marketplace stuff---the appearance armour and the house items and the pets.  But I guess I'm in the minority here.</p><p>I just don't like people speaking for me, I guess.</p></blockquote><p>While you may be in the minority on this forum, I don't think you are in the minority in game.  I see a TON of people with SC items - you can't swing a dead cat without hitting an SC mount or SC appearance armor on my server.  It just seems like you are in the minority here because this is the place people come to post their outrage.  People who enjoy the game are just playing the game.</p></blockquote><p>Seen the cat mount twice and the new cloud mount once on Crushbone. I'm sure there are more but not many. And appearance armor no one has a problem with (other than the price being high, take the new robe for example). </p></blockquote><p>The number on Prowlers on AB is crazy... I see them almost as much as the cat mount that came with the last expansion.</p>

[Vandaria]

<p>Did EQ2 go Six Sigma on us?</p>

[Bre]

<p>Gaige sums up my thoughts on the subject perfectly.</p><p>I used to like how having that hard to obtain item/mount/whatever, was a sign that you had overcome the challenges the game put in the way of getting it, rather than the position we are moving more and more rapidly towards of having overcome said challenges by whipping out the credit card and buying some Station Cash.  It's the intrusion of real life wealth into the game I resent. </p><p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm a bit mystified why allowing people to have an additional acquisition path for these mounts would upset you. Can you help me out by explaining how this impacts your gameplay in any way?</p></blockquote><p>I'm not her, but I'll give my viewpoint, take it or leave it:</p><p>Some of us have been playing this game since beta.  We have certain expectations.  One of those is that players need to earn their way.  I personally don't like players using their wallets to progress in this game.  It brings real life into my hobby in a way that it never did before.</p><p>These mounts were previously only available via plat and status.  Things you have to acquire in-game through progressing your toon.  You've now totally done away with that and said "Hey you, Mr. Rich Guy, want this mount but don't have enough status and plat, refuse to play the game as intended, no problem dude we take VISA!"</p><p>Sure its <em>only</em> a mount but EQ2's short history shows that when you guys get an inch you take about 13,000 miles.  Nothing makes me believe this will be the first thing this happens to.  Eventually what is to stop you from saying "Hey you, Mr. Rich Guy, want this BP but don't have the ability to kill Rhoen Theer - no problem dude we take VISA!"</p><p>You have SC mounts already.  Why take in-game mounts and add them there too, totally circumventing the need to actually play the game?  What is wrong with people acquiring status and plat if they want a nightmare?  If they want to give you money sell them one of the exclusive SC mounts you already offer.</p><p>You said, and I guess its my fault for believing you, that EQ2x was separate so things like this wouldn't happen.  I know you think our opinions are silly, but they matter to us.  I haven't paid SOE thousands or real life dollars on subs and expansions because I don't care about the game, quite the opposite.</p><p>My only response to you is that if you can't understand why we're passionate about these things maybe you aren't very well suited to leading this team.  I have 100% confidence in your ability to build and grow EQ2x given your experience with RMT but I really doubt your ability to stay true to the history of the real EQ2 and the decisions and explanations you've made since coming here really don't ease my mind at all, and I so badly wish they did.</p></blockquote>

[Shareana]

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=445320&post_id=5395687" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=44532...post_id=5395687</a> Insults are not needed to express your feelings please. Be constructive without them. Thank you!

[noobsfun]

<p>letus know.If this is intended consider another sub cancelled.</p>

[noobsfun]

<p>so you are now saying you ARE going to have +stat items for cash on eq live servers...just in a slightly different form?</p>

[Kasar]

<p><cite>Kaja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Once you log in a buy your raid gear, buy your best mount, buy your rares, buy your plat, what are you going to do?</p></blockquote><p>They'll do exactly what people who "bought" mythical weapon updates did, get bored at the trivialized content and stop logging in regularly.  Some never returned.</p>

[Xolita1]

<p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Since Smokejumper has been monitoring this thread, let me add -</p><p>What I want to see most on the Marketplace are convenience items that save me time.  For example, harvesting rares is no challenge whatsoever.  It just takes hours and hours of clicking nodes around green-con solo mobs that have no chance of killing me at all.  I would pay good money for rares so I can avoid hours of boring farming and just go to the fun parts of the game.  </p></blockquote><p>WHAAAA! NO! NO! NO...</p><p>For many people it is a way to make plat in this game, things like that will totally ruin the INgame economy...</p><p>Don't sell items on SC that are NOT FLUFF on the LIVE servers. period!!</p>

[Torvos]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Finora@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Torvos wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm a bit mystified why allowing people to have an additional acquisition path for these mounts would upset you. Can you help me out by explaining how this impacts your gameplay in any way?</p></blockquote><p>We were always told that the guild requirement for status items had to stay to reward guilds for working hard to increase thier levels.  Those mounts used to symbol that you earned them through helping a guild level up, which wasn't something that you could do over night. Now I can pop out my creditcard and just pay for them.  It's a major impact to my gameplay knowng that I spent weeks grinding writs to buy those mounts, when  now you can just pop out a creditcard and buy them. </p><p>I understand you truely don't care, and that this is the business model you plan to run. Please don't pretend that it doesn't matter, or that it doesn't effect us though.</p></blockquote></blockquote><p>Let me address the "you truly don't care" comment first. That's false. I wouldn't have asked the question if I didn't care. I asked because I sincerely wanted to discuss things.</p><p>I get what you're saying about the fact that you earned it and don't want others to buy it. I'll go talk to the team about it. Maybe we'll do something like make the Standard Mounts in the marketplace slightly different so that they're not the same item.</p><p>No guarantees, but I do hear what you're saying here. Thanks.</p></blockquote><p>Thanks. While truthfully, I rarely ever get a feeling of true interest in our game from you, this effort does mean a lot. I don't like that any mounts can be bought on the Marketplace, but at least by making them different you can still tell which were earned and which were bought.</p>

[MrWolfie]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>To go a step further, we'll be removing the current Standard Mounts from the marketplace in the morning.</p><p>When we add Standard Mounts back in, they will be different than the ones you had previously earned.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>Then they'd better be different in the sense "NOT AS GOOD" and "LOOKING UNIQUE". Otherwise, you're missing the point.I earned this mount thru in game achievement.You bought that mount which is, for all intents and purposes, indistinguishable from my mount.That's disrespecting my achievement.Now, if you want to sell things that can be earned in game then, conversely, <span style="text-decoration: underline;">everything that can be bought using SC should also be available to be earned in game.</span> How would that affect your revenue stream?I absolutely hate that you think you can twist the current playerbase's sentiments to suit whatever you want to do.- We do not want RMT on our servers, we already pay a subscription - don't worry it's just fluff and won't impact your gameplay (well none of that fluff is available for me to achieve in game - already my gameplay has been affected)- We do not want you taking items that can be earned in game and SELLING them.- We do not want F2P on our subscription servers, so you took the WHOLE game and put it up for sale.</strong></span></p>

[Barx]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>To go a step further, we'll be removing the current Standard Mounts from the marketplace in the morning.</p><p>When we add Standard Mounts back in, they will be different than the ones you had previously earned.</p></blockquote><p>Thank you. I don't mind a few SC mounts that look <em>similar to</em> (but are not carbon copies of) some existing vendor mounts provided they're commonly accessable vendor mounts. They should <strong>not</strong> have better stats than the version you're basing them off of and should <strong>not</strong> have a significant amount of non-runspeed stats. Mounts for speed and a few casting stats already exist in LoN and I've accepted them (a few casting stats are trivial, really), but those for SC should not be better than the versions you can get in game, at least for EQ2Live.</p>

[Eternal-Goddess]

<p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I Totally agree with what Aemm has said -</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I was <span style="text-decoration: underline;">DISGUSTED</span> to see those mounts that were previously available to buy with plat went to SC ONLY. If you start down this path SOE where does it end?! Next we will be paying station cash just to zone from one zone to the next....</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">And [Removed for Content] is this stupid extended free version of EQ? What was wrong with the free trial? Nothing. The 14day trial is what got me into this game 5 years ago. Its just another way for SOE to make money, but they are gonna sap players away from Live and leave the servers even less populated (mainly the EU ones).</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;">STOP MAKING ALL NEW COOL STUFF LIKE MOUNTS ONLY FROM STATION CASH. WE ALREADY PAY YOU £9.49 A MONTH SO THAT YOU CAN MAKE OUR GAMING EXPERIENCE BETTER - WE DO NOT EXPECT TO HAVE TO PAY EXTRA FOR ITEMS!</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Its like all SOE are doing all day long is trying to think of new ways to screw over thier loyal customers....</span></p>

[Shareana]

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=445320&post_id=5395798" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=44532...post_id=5395798</a> Please do not quote posts that are against the forum guidelines.

[Zorastiz]

<blockquote><p>No promises were broken here.</p></blockquote><p>Heh</p>

[Murryha]

<p><cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>To go a step further, we'll be removing the current Standard Mounts from the marketplace in the morning.</p><p>When we add Standard Mounts back in, they will be different than the ones you had previously earned.</p></blockquote><p>Thank you. I don't mind a few SC mounts that look <em>similar to</em> (but are not carbon copies of) some existing vendor mounts provided they're commonly accessable vendor mounts. They should <strong>not</strong> have better stats than the version you're basing them off of and should <strong>not</strong> have a significant amount of non-runspeed stats. Mounts for speed and a few casting stats already exist in LoN and I've accepted them (a few casting stats are trivial, really), but those for SC should not be better than the versions you can get in game, at least for EQ2Live.</p></blockquote><p>Remember that you said you "don't mind a few SC mounts"  on your server,  This will be the only part of your statement that anyone from SOE will pay attention to; and toss back in our faces by stating "but the player based asked for it".</p><p>I will repeat what I said earlier, but will actually make a more difinitive statement about it.</p><p>The mounts offered through SC will not be the same as the ones you had to help level a Guild up for by playing the game together with a group of your friends and Guildmates to "earn".  They won't be the same ones you did writ after writ, or HQ after HQ, or dungeon after dungeon to "earn" the plat and status you needed to even consider buying one of these mounts.</p><p>They will look better (most SC cash already looks better than what can be "earned" in game).  I will even go out on a limb to say they will also have better stats than what you can "earn" in game (prove me wrong here Smokejumper, prove me wrong!)</p><p>I don't play RMT games. When the server I am on becomes an RMT server (and Smokejumper, you are walking an extremely fine line here now, regardless of how you wish to interpret what is clearly being said to you), then I, sadly, have to rethink where to spend my hobby time and money.</p>

[Antigua]

<p><cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>To go a step further, we'll be removing the current Standard Mounts from the marketplace in the morning.</p><p>When we add Standard Mounts back in, they will be different than the ones you had previously earned.</p></blockquote><p>Thank you. I don't mind a few SC mounts that look <em>similar to</em> (but are not carbon copies of) some existing vendor mounts provided they're commonly accessable vendor mounts. They should <strong>not</strong> have better stats than the version you're basing them off of and should <strong>not</strong> have a significant amount of non-runspeed stats. Mounts for speed and a few casting stats already exist in LoN and I've accepted them (a few casting stats are trivial, really), but those for SC should not be better than the versions you can get in game, at least for EQ2Live.</p></blockquote><p>I disagree 100%.  There should be NOTHING with stats buyable for real life cash on the regular servers.  Nothing.  If I wanted to play a game of "buy yourself uber", I'd have played on the exchange servers.</p>

[Pervis]

<p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The number on Prowlers on AB is crazy... I see them almost as much as the cat mount that came with the last expansion.</p></blockquote><p>yes, but AB is a server that is notorious for both not knowing and not caring about the health of the game.</p><p>It is a server full of people that see something they like, and go "oh! Shiny!", and run off to get it without another thought.</p><p>The players on AB are not in any way shape or form representative of the total population base of this game, in any respect. There may be a lot of people on that server, but that is because that server attracts that type of person, not because that type of person is everywhere.</p><p>I have not seen ANY clouds or prowler mounts in game at all yet, and that is a fact that I am quite happy about.</p>

[Pervis]

<p><cite>Streppoch@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Funny, that's not my message.  I like the marketplace stuff---the appearance armour and the house items and the pets.  But I guess I'm in the minority here.</p><p>I just don't like people speaking for me, I guess.</p></blockquote><p>Do you like the stuff, or do you like being able to buy it with money?</p><p>These are separate things. There is no reason this game can not have all the appearance gear that is on the marketplace, but without the marketplace.</p><p>We were told that the money from SC would go towards developing this game with even more content and new art, that they would hire new developers specifically from the money it bought in. So far, we are down one Timetraveling, and have yet to be told of any new developers.</p><p>The credits from each expansion are quite telling in terms of the development team size.</p>

[Driften]

<p>You know what, I feel that SOE is in violation of there own gaming contract with Station Cash. If Soe is going to be moving toward selling weapons, armor, mounts, etc for real world money, how is this any better then buying in game gold from a foreign website??? The only difference is instead of the money going to pay for some kids food in a foreign country its going to line some corperate sleez bags pocket. My $25 for a mount could pay for alot of rice somewhere. So in my opinion all of SOE's accounts should be banned and so the ones that they sold station cash to! Because if it was SOE that caught someone doing it for "real money" your account would be terminated.</p><p>So remember kids! Station Cash = New Asian Farmer! Tell SOE rang rang! This is our spawn!</p>

[Azol]

<p>The only thing I can add is: SC has no place on non-Exchange non-EQ2X servers period. How many pages the Station Cash feedack thread contained? Over a hundred? With over 90% negative opinions, ranging from "no" to "I'll quit". So has anything changed? No. Sorry, no bashing heads here, but this <em>"I've never said that we wouldn't sell items, either with stats or not"</em> is not a satisfactoty answer in any case. SOE can change lead developers/producers every single day so every one of them would be able to use the same formula.</p>

[Polywogus]

<p><cite>Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>To go a step further, we'll be removing the current Standard Mounts from the marketplace in the morning.</p><p>When we add Standard Mounts back in, they will be different than the ones you had previously earned.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>Then they'd better be different in the sense "NOT AS GOOD" and "LOOKING UNIQUE". Otherwise, you're missing the point.I earned this mount thru in game achievement.You bought that mount which is, for all intents and purposes, indistinguishable from my mount.That's disrespecting my achievement.Now, if you want to sell things that can be earned in game then, conversely, <span style="text-decoration: underline;">everything that can be bought using SC should also be available to be earned in game.</span> How would that affect your revenue stream?I absolutely hate that you think you can twist the current playerbase's sentiments to suit whatever you want to do.- We do not want RMT on our servers, we already pay a subscription - don't worry it's just fluff and won't impact your gameplay (well none of that fluff is available for me to achieve in game - already my gameplay has been affected)- We do not want you taking items that can be earned in game and SELLING them.- We do not want F2P on our subscription servers, so you took the WHOLE game and put it up for sale.</strong></span></p></blockquote><p>Well Said, between this & Gaige's replys to $medherder, you both summed it up <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[BabyAngel]

<p>I went to horse merchant and checked SC tonight before I logged, only had a few minutes, the mounts were missing from station cash, not sure if in the horse merchants for plat and status I didn't have time to check just arranged by price and scrolled to bottom for SC, can anyone else check there servers? Have they reversed the decision?</p>

[Shareana]

<p><cite>BabyAngel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I went to horse merchant and checked SC tonight before I logged, only had a few minutes, the mounts were missing from station cash, not sure if in the horse merchants for plat and status I didn't have time to check just arranged by price and scrolled to bottom for SC, can anyone else check there servers? Have they reversed the decision?</p></blockquote><p>They will be changing it a bit per <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=90&topic_id=484927#5395217" target="_blank">Smokejumper</a>...</p><p><span><p><em>mounts are going to be replaced back into the vendors (stable masters). That will occur in Tuesday's hotfix.</em></p><p><em>They'll still be available as Standard Mounts in the marketplace also, but will be available at their regular plat/status prices in the vendors as well.</em></p><p><em>NOTE: Since there are actually two instances of those mounts, when you're looking at the stable master, you'll see one entry for plat/status, and one entry for SC. Choose whichever one you desire.</em></p><p>...and then again <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=150&topic_id=484927#5395420" target="_blank">here</a>.... a while later.</p><p><em><span><p>To go a step further, we'll be removing the current Standard Mounts from the marketplace in the morning.</p><p>When we add Standard Mounts back in, they will be different than the ones you had previously earned.</p></span></em></p></span></p>

[CoLD MeTaL]

<p>Finally got caught up.</p>

[Maroger]

<p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Streppoch@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Funny, that's not my message.  I like the marketplace stuff---the appearance armour and the house items and the pets.  But I guess I'm in the minority here.</p><p>I just don't like people speaking for me, I guess.</p></blockquote><p>While you may be in the minority on this forum, I don't think you are in the minority in game.  I see a TON of people with SC items - you can't swing a dead cat without hitting an SC mount or SC appearance armor on my server.  It just seems like you are in the minority here because this is the place people come to post their outrage.  People who enjoy the game are just playing the game.</p></blockquote><p>I agree with you -- the fervid, overheated shouters against SC mounts and other items are a minority in the game. The SC mounts sells well(see Ulteran Prowlers - Very popular). I think the large majority of the player base likes these items and buys them.  Regardless of how the screaming minority on these forums may feel.</p><p>I worked and got 2 rime horses but I would never lose sleep if they showed up on SC. I really wouldn't care. But the mounts put on were for many levels ago and I don't see many people with them anymore.</p><p>The bottom line for me it doesn't affect my game play, I am not offended and I think SJ is doing the right thing by putting attractive looking mounts which no one buys these days on SC. I like what he is doing with SC.</p>

[Seolta]

<p><cite>Gargamel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Wouldnt it be great if we actually had an update that <strong>didnt</strong> get people outraged? One where a change is made that actually has 90% of the forum goers jumping for joy instead of venting rage. I cant remember the last time that happened.</p></blockquote><p>Selective reading... I don't recall any GU being such an FU in a long time.</p><p>GU13 (and I was a current subscriber at the time) is the closest.  IF the FU had any content, it might blunt the fact that it was 4 months spent on EQX, a project specifically developed to kill the live servers, which includes offensive changes to the live servers being shoved down the people who invested about $1000 since launch in order to court people to play for free and $2.99 for something that took a month to earn in game, blah blah blah.</p><p>Lets just cut to the chase.... lets sell lvl 90 characters for 49.95... equip them with 'ez mode' T9 raid gear for an extra 20, and t3 hard more gear for 99.95 package.  I mean then can all be earned in game... whats the big deal?  It sure will earn alot of $med bucks for sharkjumper.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ffff99;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">"Sharkjumper" - You sir, win the prize for best comedy dev nickname EVAR!</span></span></span></p>

[Badmotorfinger]

<p><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Streppoch@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Funny, that's not my message.  I like the marketplace stuff---the appearance armour and the house items and the pets.  But I guess I'm in the minority here.</p><p>I just don't like people speaking for me, I guess.</p></blockquote><p>While you may be in the minority on this forum, I don't think you are in the minority in game.  I see a TON of people with SC items - you can't swing a dead cat without hitting an SC mount or SC appearance armor on my server.  It just seems like you are in the minority here because this is the place people come to post their outrage.  People who enjoy the game are just playing the game.</p></blockquote><p>I agree with you -- the fervid, overheated shouters against SC mounts and other items are a minority in the game. The SC mounts sells well(see Ulteran Prowlers - Very popular). I think the large majority of the player base likes these items and buys them.  Regardless of how the screaming minority on these forums may feel.</p><p>I worked and got 2 rime horses but I would never lose sleep if they showed up on SC. I really wouldn't care. But the mounts put on were for many levels ago and I don't see many people with them anymore.</p><p>The bottom line for me it doesn't affect my game play, I am not offended and I think SJ is doing the right thing by putting attractive looking mounts which no one buys these days on SC. I like what he is doing with SC.</p></blockquote><p>lol, are you serious?  The minority?  Yeah, the 'vocal' people may be the minority, but the people that are fed up with sony's new buisness model, are not.  My guild and server chat is crazy busy with discontent from thousands of players.  I don't need to log on here and shout at Sony to tell them I'm leaving when Rift comes out....  That's the plan.    It's not a matter of Sony winning these players back anymore.  It's a matter of those players just waiting until they're able to move thier community.  That's what people still play this game for.  We pay a subscription and we just got a GU with no content...  The game and sony have clearly defined what the new direction is.  You want the new content?  you need to pay yet even more than what you're subscription gives you.  It's a slap in the face.  As soon as the oportunity presents itself (Rift) you'll notice things change.. Until then a lot of us are just playing to kill the time until then. </p>

[Mellia]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tylia@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The mounts are going to be replaced back into the vendors (stable masters). That will occur in Tuesday's hotfix.</p><p>They'll still be available as Standard Mounts in the marketplace also, but will be available at their regular plat/status prices in the vendors as well.</p><p>NOTE: Since there are actually two instances of those mounts, when you're looking at the stable master, you'll see one entry for plat/status, and one entry for SC. Choose whichever one you desire.</p></blockquote><p>This only "fixes" part of the problem.  A complete solution would be to <strong>remove</strong> the option to purchase these mounts with SC from live servers altogether.  I see this as a sneaky and "convenient" way to add these items for purchase to live servers.  This time it was mounts.  What will "mistakenly" appear next time?  Sorry SoE.. you have lost 2 more monthly subscriptions.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>I'm a bit mystified why allowing people to have an additional acquisition path for these mounts would upset you. Can you help me out by explaining how this impacts your gameplay in any way?</p></blockquote><p>Let me ask the question a little differently, as many others have addressed your question more directly already.</p><p>You said you "had" to create separate "f"2p servers (because they "had" to have a "robust" RMT) since we veteran players had made it clear we did not want an expanded RMT (or, really, any RMT) on our servers.  In doing so, you have essentially ensured that our servers, through lack of new players, will eventually shrink and die.  Ok.  So we get a penalty - declining populations - because we reject your cash shop.</p><p>And now you expand your cash shop.  While we are still being penalized.</p><p>What part of that do you fail to understand?</p><p>BTW - "additional acquisition path" is a bit of a mouth full.  How about:</p><p>"I'm a bit mystified why allowing people <span style="color: #ff0000;">to pay real cash </span>for these mounts would upset you. Can you help me out by explaining how this impacts your gameplay in any way?"</p><p>Now, isn't that clearer? </p>

[Derri]

<p>I understand the push towards a F2P model. That $15 a month pricepoint just isn't enough to sustain development on many games nowadays, but I suppose the industry assumes most of us wouldn't be willing to pay more than that, so they're looking at alternate pricing. I get that. I know SOE isn't my friend, and I don't expect it to care about anything more than its bottom line. It's a business after all.</p><p>I played Free Realms the other night with my kids. Two of them have memberships, as do I through my Station Access account. I was absolutely FLOORED by the ridiculous number of ads inundating that game. Every loading screen... the login screen... the shops... everything has ads for SC items. There are SC item vendors all over the place. And we see it all, even as members!</p><p>I think anyone who wants to see what SOE envisions for EQ2X (and ultimately, for EQ2), should dink around in Free Realms for a while. That's how SOE does F2P.</p><p>Those mounts in the Marketplace foreshadow where the game is going. I suspect we'll see more and more SC items on vendors (will they get the little SC symbol over their heads?), and I worry that even as a subscriber, pretty soon the SC stuff will be smacking me in the face every time I play.</p>

[Eternal-Goddess]

<p><span style="color: #ff6600;">The thing is Station Cash wasn't too bad when it first came out - just a few nice house objects and apperance armor, that didnt effect anyones gameplay greatly. </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Now though, its just getting way out of hand and it seems like <span style="text-decoration: underline;">EVERYTHING</span> half decent like new mounts, armor is ALL going into station cash. THIS IS JUST SO WRONG. Where the hell is our subscription fee going each month, cuz it doesnt look like we are seeing anything progressive in the updates except stuff we have to pay EXTRA cash for!</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">SOE FIX IT NOW OR YOUR GOING TO HAVE A LOT LESS PLAYERS IN THE COMING MONTHS. EVERQUEST USED TO BE THE BEST MMO YOU COULD FIND, NOW ITS SLOWLY SPIRALING DOWN HILL.</span></p>

[CorpseGoddess]

<p><cite>Pervis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The number on Prowlers on AB is crazy... I see them almost as much as the cat mount that came with the last expansion.</p></blockquote><p>yes, but AB is a server that is notorious for both not knowing and not caring about the health of the game.</p><p>It is a server full of people that see something they like, and go "oh! Shiny!", and run off to get it without another thought.</p><p>The players on AB are not in any way shape or form representative of the total population base of this game, in any respect. There may be a lot of people on that server, but that is because that server attracts that type of person, not because that type of person is everywhere.</p><p>I have not seen ANY clouds or prowler mounts in game at all yet, and that is a fact that I am quite happy about.</p></blockquote><p>I think it's pretty selfish and narrowminded to say that just because people buy items from the marketplace, they don't care about the game.  *I* buy stuff on the marketplace and this is my favourite mmo, thank you very much.</p><p>If enjoying this game regardless of what anybody else has, caring about the health of the game because I love my bruiser, and buying fun stuff on the marketplace makes me "that type of person", I'll take it.  </p><p>Better to worry about the 2x4 in your own eye before criticizing people for the mote in theirs.</p>

[MurFalad]

<p><cite>mokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Izass@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>oh joy! the SC ones will have better stats!</p><p>I'll put 100plat on it. Whos taking my bet?</p></blockquote><p>Folks...take this guy's money. He's going to lose that bet.</p></blockquote><p>Cool, I'll send him an in game mail first thing this evening <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  And thanks for the change, its good to seperate the SC/in game rewards just for player satisfaction.</p><p>Personally I would like to see appearance slots for mounts added just to allow new station mounts to be pure appearance items only, I guess that is coming anyway though.</p><p>But so far I haven't read a good answer to your original question, Gaige answered the RMT thing perfectly for me though, so here goes my answer.</p><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span >I'm a bit mystified why allowing people to have an additional acquisition path for these mounts would upset you. Can you help me out by explaining how this impacts your gameplay in any way?</span></p></blockquote><p>I believe this effects my game by reducing the value of status earned in the game, directly that makes for less buyers for the status items I put on the broker and means I earn less plat.</p><p>It reduces the value of status in the game too, although its arguable whether people will do something else in Norrath that makes up for the time that they didn't spend adventuring to acquire the mount (if they do spend less time playing then that makes the game and its virtual economy poorer for it). </p><p>On its own this is a tiny change for me, so I won't exaggerate it, but its one that just goes in the wrong direction gamewise making my world of Norrath a little poorer for it.</p>

[Melanchol]

The boiling frog story is a widespread anecdote describing a frog slowly being boiled alive. The premise is that if a frog is placed in boiling water, it will jump out, but if it is placed in cold water that is slowly heated, it will not perceive the danger and will be cooked to death. The story is often used as a metaphor for the inability of people to react to significant changes that occur gradually. Funny how many frogs are there defending soe saying the water feels the same now than it did back then? amusing.

[Melanchol]

<p>For those of you saying "It doesn't effect my gameplay"</p><p>try telling that to the people in this thread who lost half their guildmates in one night.</p><p>and when they quit themselves, and the rest of their friends too, and this happens all over, who will you play with?</p><p>the loss of a single account to RMT effects EVERYONE ultimately.</p>

[CorpseGoddess]

<p><cite>Melancholie@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>The boiling frog story is a widespread anecdote describing a frog slowly being boiled alive. The premise is that if a frog is placed in boiling water, it will jump out, but if it is placed in cold water that is slowly heated, it will not perceive the danger and will be cooked to death. The story is often used as a metaphor for the inability of people to react to significant changes that occur gradually. Funny how many frogs are there defending soe saying the water feels the same now than it did back then? amusing.</blockquote><p>I'm not defending SOE and I'm sure as heck not saying anything "feels the same".  What I've been saying in this particular thread on this particular issue is that I DON'T CARE what people have and how they got it.  I don't!  It doesn't matter to me at all!  It doesn't affect my gameplay, it doesn't affect my feelings of self-worth, it doesn't affect the accomplishments I have under my belt, it doesn't affect how much I love my bruiser, it doesn't affect ME AT ALL.  I'm sorry if that doesn't jive with everybody's outrage over this, but it's the truth.</p>

[Melanchol]

<p><cite>Streppoch@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Melancholie@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>The boiling frog story is a widespread anecdote describing a frog slowly being boiled alive. The premise is that if a frog is placed in boiling water, it will jump out, but if it is placed in cold water that is slowly heated, it will not perceive the danger and will be cooked to death. The story is often used as a metaphor for the inability of people to react to significant changes that occur gradually. Funny how many frogs are there defending soe saying the water feels the same now than it did back then? amusing.</blockquote><p>I'm not defending SOE and I'm sure as heck not saying anything "feels the same".  What I've been saying in this particular thread on this particular issue is that I DON'T CARE what people have and how they got it.  I don't!  It doesn't matter to me at all!  It doesn't affect my gameplay, it doesn't affect my feelings of self-worth, it doesn't affect the accomplishments I have under my belt, it doesn't affect how much I love my bruiser, it doesn't affect ME AT ALL.  I'm sorry if that doesn't jive with everybody's outrage over this, but it's the truth.</p></blockquote><p>again.</p><p>every single last person that leaves this game because of the triple black diamond RMT slope we're on has a dramatic effect on YOUR GAMEPLAY.</p><p>to claim it does not is to be disengenuous.</p>