The new fighter nerf to make guardians useful again, why?

[Belzeebub2]

<p>Recently all fighter got their heal crit removed because guardians suck compared to the resr of the fighter since sentinel's Fate was released. Now wouldn't it have been far easier to improve guardians?</p><p>Also before any uses the "yeh but crusaders are too hard to kill in Battle Grounds" card, if that was also the case couldn't SOE just nerf fighter heals in Battle Grounds, like they nerf spells an combat arts such as assassins' Assassinate, in order to prevent one hit kills and such, surely that would make more sense.</p>

[Britty]

<p><cite>Belzeebub2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Recently all fighter got their heal crit removed because guardians suck compared to the resr of the fighter since sentinel's Fate was released. Now wouldn't it have been far easier to improve guardians?</p><p>Also before any uses the "yeh but crusaders are too hard to kill in Battle Grounds" card, if that was also the case couldn't SOE just nerf fighter heals in Battle Grounds, like they nerf spells an combat arts such as assassins' Assassinate, in order to prevent one hit kills and such, surely that would make more sense.</p></blockquote><p>Crusader that pulls the trusty old Guardian card out again. Lets set this straight up.</p><p>Recently I think you'll find that generally Guardians didn't call for a nerf of other classes in general. So don't make this about Guardians. You'll need to find another reason why SoE thought this necessary.</p><p>And I don't see how this makes Guardians 'useful' again in even the very slightest. You're waaaaaaaaay off base with this one.</p>

[Wasuna]

<p><cite>Belzeebub2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Recently all fighter got their heal crit removed because guardians suck compared to the resr of the fighter since sentinel's Fate was released. Now wouldn't it have been far easier to improve guardians?</p></blockquote><p>No. It would have further ruined the game. Crusaders and Berserkers are already to powerful for the game and pushing Guardians up to that same level would have just broken things further.</p><p>It is NEVER ok to have any class that can go into a current teir Heroic group instance and solo it. Any knowledgable and well geared crusader can solo several of the current SF group instance and that is completely unacceptable. Other classes can do it also but I'm sticking to fighters here.</p>

[Xethren]

<p><cite>Belzeebub2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Recently all fighter got their heal crit removed because guardians suck compared to the resr of the fighter since sentinel's Fate was released. Now wouldn't it have been far easier to improve guardians?</p><p>Also before any uses the "yeh but crusaders are too hard to kill in Battle Grounds" card, if that was also the case couldn't SOE just nerf fighter heals in Battle Grounds, like they nerf spells an combat arts such as assassins' Assassinate, in order to prevent one hit kills and such, surely that would make more sense.</p></blockquote><p>Guardians are still the least-desired plate tank, so save it. We didnt call for a nerf on other classes. This was a much-needed fix though anyone playing an Crusader would say otherwise. Maybe healers will be able to do their job now of heal the tank and group?</p><p>Wasuna said everything else I wanted.</p>

[Landiin]

<p>Just how has this hurt your crusader? Our crusader HPS is ~ 1k HPS on raid and the healers had zero trouble keeping him up. So no harm there... Oh yea, your group heal, you can't heal your group to full as easily now, OH snap!</p>

[RafaelSmith]

<p><cite>Wasuna wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Belzeebub2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Recently all fighter got their heal crit removed because guardians suck compared to the resr of the fighter since sentinel's Fate was released. Now wouldn't it have been far easier to improve guardians?</p></blockquote><p>No. It would have further ruined the game. Crusaders and Berserkers are already to powerful for the game and pushing Guardians up to that same level would have just broken things further.</p><p>It is NEVER ok to have any class that can go into a current teir Heroic group instance and solo it. Any knowledgable and well geared crusader can solo several of the current SF group instance and that is completely unacceptable. Other classes can do it also but I'm sticking to fighters here.</p></blockquote><p>Trust me, I think that Crusaders since TSO were given too much power and are allowed to far exceed the boundaries of the archetype but I 100% dissaproove of this heal crit nerf.  Its too much....to much of a blanket across the board change that hurts more than fixes.  Its typical SOE........using a sledgehammer to "fix" instead of a screw driver....just like they did at TSO in how they buffed Crusaders and particulary SKs.  </p><p>I also disagree that is bad for players to be able to optimize their class, gear up and be able to trivialize already trivial content.  Its fun, hurts noone because who the hell cares about Library anways.  I view it as a perk of playing end game.  Only tanks in top level gear can solo these heroic zones.  Hell while its painfully slow I can 'almost' solo all of Library on my Guard.....and trust me its not because of my leet heal crits.........do you think Guards need to be nerfed now?</p><p>Besides dont believe the BS spouted by SOE........this change had very little to do with Zerkers and Crusaders being able to solo library......it was about BGs.......they can deny it all they want but most people know its true.</p>

[Aull]

<p>I think that removing the chance for fighters to heal crit was wrong. I think that removing any chance that fighter heals can be affected by potency and crit bonus should have been done. Fighters critically healing was ok before crit bonus and potency became factors in the equation.</p><p>This was not done to make guardians superior. Even with crusaders no longer critically healing they are still stronger than guards and brawlers by a long shot.</p>

[RafaelSmith]

<p><cite>Aull wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think that removing the chance for fighters to heal crit was wrong. I think that removing any chance that fighter heals can be affected by potency and crit bonus should have been done. Fighters critically healing was ok before crit bonus and potency became factors in the equation.</p><p>This was not done to make guardians superior. Even with crusaders no longer critically healing they are still stronger than guards and brawlers by a long shot.</p></blockquote><p>What they should have done form the start was make content harder and mobs hit harder so that their crit heals were worth less and our so called advantage on survivability actually mattered.</p><p>Library, VD1, and most other instances were trivial the day the expansion launched even without any of the new gear....some were being dou/trio boxed way before people were even 90 or had raid gear.</p>

[Kota]

too much variance in gear to just scale up the mobs really. they want to keep the game playable by new players. if i pulled eq2 outta the box today and lvld a toon to 90, no money from an alt, no PL or aa runs, i would prolly have like 140aa and i would be scraping and scrounging for a set of mc and some mc spells. i have an 81 brig that pretty much fits that description and my dps is pretty dismal. i have an 80 monk in lvl 70 fabled gear and i get candy slapped by fire beetles. i do feel jipped being the only archetype that doesn't get crits across the board anymore. also, being a warrior, i basically get zero benefit from crit consolidation. same with brawlers. i believe 100% that zerks and crusaders were healing way too much. i really didn't play with and against enough brawlers to really have an opinion about their healing. it's just the principle of the matter that peeves me.

[Shareana]

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=445320&post_id=5394901" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=44532...post_id=5394901</a> There is no call to be vulgar on the forums. You can give constructive without it.

[Landiin]

<p><cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>{Sniped to to post possibly being deleted}</p></blockquote><p>Pally's wasn't as nerf as all your QQing makes them out to be.</p><p>You still can solo instances, its been proven.</p><p>You are still the best MT in the game.</p><p>So really give it a rest already!</p>

[Wasuna]

<p><cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Wasuna wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Belzeebub2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Recently all fighter got their heal crit removed because guardians suck compared to the resr of the fighter since sentinel's Fate was released. Now wouldn't it have been far easier to improve guardians?</p></blockquote><p>No. It would have further ruined the game. Crusaders and Berserkers are already to powerful for the game and pushing Guardians up to that same level would have just broken things further.</p><p>It is NEVER ok to have any class that can go into a current teir Heroic group instance and solo it. Any knowledgable and well geared crusader can solo several of the current SF group instance and that is completely unacceptable. Other classes can do it also but I'm sticking to fighters here.</p></blockquote><p>Trust me, I think that Crusaders since TSO were given too much power and are allowed to far exceed the boundaries of the archetype but I 100% dissaproove of this heal crit nerf.  Its too much....to much of a blanket across the board change that hurts more than fixes.  Its typical SOE........using a sledgehammer to "fix" instead of a screw driver....just like they did at TSO in how they buffed Crusaders and particulary SKs.  </p><p>I also disagree that is bad for players to be able to optimize their class, gear up and be able to trivialize already trivial content.  Its fun, hurts noone because who the hell cares about Library anways.  I view it as a perk of playing end game.  Only tanks in top level gear can solo these heroic zones.  Hell while its painfully slow I can 'almost' solo all of Library on my Guard.....and trust me its not because of my leet heal crits.........do you think Guards need to be nerfed now?</p><p>Besides dont believe the BS spouted by SOE........this change had very little to do with Zerkers and Crusaders being able to solo library......it was about BGs.......they can deny it all they want but most people know its true.</p></blockquote><p>To much? You need to go play the game and see just how much this did. I was in Cella last night on my wizard and the SK tank outhealed the fury healer in the group on every named fight. Every single one. This is AFTER the nerf. The SK was a mixture of T9 fabled, T8 Fabled and some Legendary so he was by NO means a top end geared person.</p><p>To say the least, I was terribly disappointed. The fury was still DPSing and the SK was still healing. On top of that the SK was far far outshing my zone wide DPS parse even after I deleted the Queen fight crap due to the damage shiled. He almost doubled me up zone wide and I never once beat him on any fight. I got within 400 DPS on one fight and I broke 20K on that one.</p><p>You people need to get real. Fighter balance, and even overall game balance, is totallty screwed and all the people whining that this nerf is going to kill their charachters are totally wrong. I bring facts that show that this nerf was MINIMAL for at least the SK. I completely expect the Paladin to be a bit worse off but NOWHERE near bad or even balanced with the rest of the fighetrs.</p>

[Zutan]

<p>SK heals never got all that much boost from crits since I believe we only have 2 'heals' that even are capable of criting.  The rest of our heals come from Reaver AA (makes all spells heal) and that doesnt crit heal.   I havent played a pally so I do not know how much an effect it had on them but I suspect more than it did for SK.</p><p>I havent tried to parse my heals but I do not notice any change to survivability with this change.</p>

[dalponis]

<p>They <strong>needed </strong>to nerf heal crit for fighters becuase guardians sucked so much; That's why, duh!</p>

[MurFalad]

<p>What I don't get here is just how easy people want this game to be.  Fighters were already parsing with the healers with their healing, even after it I've seen beserkers out parse dedicated healers.</p><p>How easy do you want this game to be?  Without any self healing I can go AFK in green or above zones and come back to a 100% health bar with a few mobs aggro'd onto me 15 minutes later (as a guardian too, yes we do much lower DPS, but compared to the gameworld I feel very overpowered these days, I guess the solution is just to make us even more powerful to match other classes?).</p><p>Seriously, I wish all these people would stop the endless moaning and requests for their character to be all powerful and actually ask for the game to be challenging, it would be a refreshing experience and a breath of fresh air on these forums that have become riddled with players just demanding personal buffs at the expense of the games challenge. </p><p>Right now even after the removal of crits from fighter heals players are massively overpowered compared to the gameworld, even WoW offers a more dangerous world then the Sentinels fate zones, thats how far things have gone now.</p>

[Drumstix]

<p>Why not change it so that heals can still crit at base, but Crit Bonus does not affect the heals.This allows having 100% crit chance actually affect all abilities, but the crit bonus would not send the heal amounts into overly high amounts.</p><p>Just remember a shadowknight's "heal" can be resisted, which still holds fact that our lifetaps have always been recognized as spells and not heals. In TSO 100% crit chance was obtainable and affected our lifetaps back then, as spell crit Always has.</p><p>Not saying this change wasn't neccessary, but I'm saying the culprit is crit Bonus, not crits altogether.</p>

[Wasuna]

<p>Fighters are not suppose to out heal healers. They still do after the change so trying to soften thic change is the wrong approach. I understand that having your shinny toy taken away from you after 6 months sucks but it has to happen. In the end, more is going to have to happen. Even on my Guardian I usually do 25-35% of what the healer is doing in a Heroic instance that just is not right.</p>

[RafaelSmith]

<p><cite>Wasuna wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Fighters are not suppose to out heal healers. They still do after the change so trying to soften thic change is the wrong approach. I understand that having your shinny toy taken away from you after 6 months sucks but it has to happen. In the end, more is going to have to happen. Even on my Guardian I usually do 25-35% of what the healer is doing in a Heroic instance that just is not right.</p></blockquote><p>Its because the content is to [Removed for Content] easy....thats why so many players....from all 4 archetypes....not just fighters are able to get by with minimal heals.  </p><p>The solution should have been implemented before SF launched.........that is the content should have been made much tougher than it is.  I knew we would end up where we are today.....i.e people thinking fighters actually outheal healers the first time I cleared Library, Halls and VD1 with 4 people all at level 81-83, still wearing last expansion gear with total ease.</p><p>The content is simply too easy considering the power players have.....this should have been painfully obvious to the devs when they consolidated crits and then proceeded to poorly itemize SF.  I think they did it on purpose.</p><p>Make the content actually match the power of the players and all those so called OP fighter heals wont seem all that great anymore.....more noise than anything and healers would actually have to use real heals.</p><p>Truth is Fighter heals were not OP at the raid level or the dificult heroic level...only the trivial heoric level........the nerf was not needed.....period.</p>

[Thor]

<p><cite>MurFalad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Seriously, I wish all these people would stop the endless moaning and requests for their character to be all powerful and actually ask for the game to be challenging, it would be a refreshing experience and a breath of fresh air on these forums that have become riddled with players just demanding personal buffs at the expense of the games challenge. </p></blockquote><p>Well said</p>

[Kota]

ever group with a dps class that was parsing so low you vowed never to group with them again ? or a tank so squishy your group leader booted im ? dialing up the difficulty will not only deter new players but it will have the crafting world quitting on the spot. mc gear is already complete crap above t2.

[RAYVEN2]

<p>What you all dont get is that this effects Paladin's raiding ability.  Crit heal helped Paladins compensate for spike damage from raid mobs.  Now Paladins have no spike damage protection and nothing else for spike prevention.  Guardians still have plenty of abilities to deal with incoming spikes.  What do Paladins have?  Stonewall that can be striked through?  A good crit allowed Paladins to heal a good portion of an incoming spike before but now thier heals are useless in raid situations.  Forget instances.... Almost all fighters can do instances at this point in thier sleep and all they need is a healer who is awake.  What people are complaining about with this crit heal nerf is trying to use a heal in situations where you have 30k+ hp and can take a 25k hit.  This change makes a whole hotbar of Paladin heals useless.  How would you guys feel if your signature abilities were made useless?  If Paladins were overpowered there were tons of other ways to deal with it.  Boli and Jeal have shown tons of data as to why this is a problem.  If you guys dont think this is a problem just look at the data. </p>

[Evette23]

<p><cite>RAYVEN2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What you all dont get is that this effects Paladin's raiding ability.  Crit heal helped Paladins compensate for spike damage from raid mobs.  Now Paladins have no spike damage protection and nothing else for spike prevention.  Guardians still have plenty of abilities to deal with incoming spikes.  What do Paladins have?  Stonewall that can be striked through?  A good crit allowed Paladins to heal a good portion of an incoming spike before but now thier heals are useless in raid situations.  Forget instances.... Almost all fighters can do instances at this point in thier sleep and all they need is a healer who is awake.  What people are complaining about with this crit heal nerf is trying to use a heal in situations where you have 30k+ hp and can take a 25k hit.  This change makes a whole hotbar of Paladin heals useless.  How would you guys feel if your signature abilities were made useless?  If Paladins were overpowered there were tons of other ways to deal with it.  Boli and Jeal have shown tons of data as to why this is a problem.  If you guys dont think this is a problem just look at the data. </p></blockquote><p>Paladins do too much dps for the defense they have anyway. So sorry for you if you have to give up a little defense to basically own in every other aspect of gameplay. I also love how you say paladins have no spike damage protection or prevention. Maybe you should read what the icons on your hotbar do and look at your AAs sometime.</p>

[Stonestrong]

<p><cite>Evette23 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>RAYVEN2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What you all dont get is that this effects Paladin's raiding ability.  Crit heal helped Paladins compensate for spike damage from raid mobs.  Now Paladins have no spike damage protection and nothing else for spike prevention.  Guardians still have plenty of abilities to deal with incoming spikes.  What do Paladins have?  Stonewall that can be striked through?  A good crit allowed Paladins to heal a good portion of an incoming spike before but now thier heals are useless in raid situations.  Forget instances.... Almost all fighters can do instances at this point in thier sleep and all they need is a healer who is awake.  What people are complaining about with this crit heal nerf is trying to use a heal in situations where you have 30k+ hp and can take a 25k hit.  This change makes a whole hotbar of Paladin heals useless.  How would you guys feel if your signature abilities were made useless?  If Paladins were overpowered there were tons of other ways to deal with it.  Boli and Jeal have shown tons of data as to why this is a problem.  If you guys dont think this is a problem just look at the data. </p></blockquote><p>Paladins do too much dps for the defense they have anyway. So sorry for you if you have to give up a little defense to basically own in every other aspect of gameplay. I also love how you say paladins have no spike damage protection or prevention. Maybe you should read what the icons on your hotbar do and look at your AAs sometime.</p></blockquote><p>Give it up, it's not going to happen.</p>

[Evette23]

<p>It already happened?</p>

[Drumstix]

<p>The green mobs from 2 expansions ago are harder than some of the instances out there at level 90.</p><p>The zones in this expansion are easy, with a few bosses that actually require some real healing.</p>

[Shareana]

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=445320&post_id=5404413" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=44532...post_id=5404413</a> Attacks and insults on these forums are not permitted.

[Cyrdemac]

<p><cite>Evette23 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>RAYVEN2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What you all dont get is that this effects Paladin's raiding ability.  Crit heal helped Paladins compensate for spike damage from raid mobs.  Now Paladins have no spike damage protection and nothing else for spike prevention.  Guardians still have plenty of abilities to deal with incoming spikes.  What do Paladins have?  Stonewall that can be striked through?  A good crit allowed Paladins to heal a good portion of an incoming spike before but now thier heals are useless in raid situations.  Forget instances.... Almost all fighters can do instances at this point in thier sleep and all they need is a healer who is awake.  What people are complaining about with this crit heal nerf is trying to use a heal in situations where you have 30k+ hp and can take a 25k hit.  This change makes a whole hotbar of Paladin heals useless.  How would you guys feel if your signature abilities were made useless?  If Paladins were overpowered there were tons of other ways to deal with it.  Boli and Jeal have shown tons of data as to why this is a problem.  If you guys dont think this is a problem just look at the data. </p></blockquote><p>Paladins do too much dps for the defense they have anyway. So sorry for you if you have to give up a little defense to basically own in every other aspect of gameplay. I also love how you say paladins have no spike damage protection or prevention. Maybe you should read what the icons on your hotbar do and look at your AAs sometime.</p></blockquote><p>And you should recognise the system of strikethrough. Block (Paladin TSO endline), Parry (SK TSO endline) can be avoided with strikethrough, Tower of Stone, for instance, cannot. Even after successfull block / parry, the mob can still hit the crusader and any other tank. And they work for physical hits only (I left out the semi stoneskin  in the STA line of the crusaders, wich only avoids hits smaller then 50% max health of caster). Stoneskins don't care, they cannot be avoided and they absorb any amount of damage, no matter the type.</p><p>So Crusaders have 3 abilities to avoid expected incoming damage, all of them useless or rather useless against spike hits as they can strike through or just big enogh (spike) to ignore the semi-stoneskin of crusaders. Therefore Crusaders don't have any true stoneskin abilites and no real spike prevention.</p>

[Sleap]

<p>After the change i havent noticed anything significant on my SK, im still tanking/pwning zones. Gear/AA/Skill > heal crit.</p>

[circusgirl]

<p><cite>Cyrdemac wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Evette23 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>RAYVEN2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What you all dont get is that this effects Paladin's raiding ability.  Crit heal helped Paladins compensate for spike damage from raid mobs.  Now Paladins have no spike damage protection and nothing else for spike prevention.  Guardians still have plenty of abilities to deal with incoming spikes.  What do Paladins have?  Stonewall that can be striked through?  A good crit allowed Paladins to heal a good portion of an incoming spike before but now thier heals are useless in raid situations.  Forget instances.... Almost all fighters can do instances at this point in thier sleep and all they need is a healer who is awake.  What people are complaining about with this crit heal nerf is trying to use a heal in situations where you have 30k+ hp and can take a 25k hit.  This change makes a whole hotbar of Paladin heals useless.  How would you guys feel if your signature abilities were made useless?  If Paladins were overpowered there were tons of other ways to deal with it.  Boli and Jeal have shown tons of data as to why this is a problem.  If you guys dont think this is a problem just look at the data. </p></blockquote><p>Paladins do too much dps for the defense they have anyway. So sorry for you if you have to give up a little defense to basically own in every other aspect of gameplay. I also love how you say paladins have no spike damage protection or prevention. Maybe you should read what the icons on your hotbar do and look at your AAs sometime.</p></blockquote><p>And you should recognise the system of strikethrough. Block (Paladin TSO endline), Parry (SK TSO endline) can be avoided with strikethrough, Tower of Stone, for instance, cannot. Even after successfull block / parry, the mob can still hit the crusader and any other tank. And they work for physical hits only (I left out the semi stoneskin  in the STA line of the crusaders, wich only avoids hits smaller then 50% max health of caster). Stoneskins don't care, they cannot be avoided and they absorb any amount of damage, no matter the type.</p><p>So Crusaders have 3 abilities to avoid expected incoming damage, all of them useless or rather useless against spike hits as they can strike through or just big enogh (spike) to ignore the semi-stoneskin of crusaders. Therefore Crusaders don't have any true stoneskin abilites and no real spike prevention.</p></blockquote><p>Except that a big spike in damage doesn't normally come from a single hit thats greater than 50% of your hp.  It comes from a big hit then a critical double attack happening at the same time as an AE goes off--but each of those 3 hits is only really ~ 1/3rd of your hp.  Its pretty rare to see damage go through a crusader's stoneskin ability, in my experience the only mob I've ever really seen do it is Gozak--who isn't meant to be tanked at all.</p>

[Terron]

<p><cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I also disagree that is bad for players to be able to optimize their class, gear up and be able to trivialize already trivial content.  Its fun, hurts noone because who the hell cares about Library anways. </blockquote><p>Who does it hurt? Everyone who cares about doing the quests that involve those zones, who doesn't have the top level gear, and who isn't a regular raider (and so can't get the top level gear easily). It's much harder to get groups when other people who might be able to help would rather solo the zone and take all the rewards.</p>

[Maamadex]

<p>You think someone's ability to solo a zone prevents them from helping people? You get raid gear, it makes heroic zones easier. People solo crap like library cause they are bored and because they can. They don't go oh, I am not gonna help this guildy o mine, I want all the loots for myself! People still like to group, it won't impact anybody's questing in instances like library.</p>

[Draylore]

<p><cite>Terron@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I also disagree that is bad for players to be able to optimize their class, gear up and be able to trivialize already trivial content. Its fun, hurts noone because who the hell cares about Library anways.</blockquote><p>Who does it hurt? Everyone who cares about doing the quests that involve those zones, who doesn't have the top level gear, and who isn't a regular raider (and so can't get the top level gear easily). It's much harder to get groups when other people who might be able to help would rather solo the zone and take all the rewards.</p></blockquote><p>That makes no sense.  You seriously think that the reason people cant' get help completing quests in Library is because the zone can be soloed or boxed by some?  Not sure how you make that connection but oh well.</p><p>Being able to screw around and see how far I can get into a instance solo or boxing is what I do when im bored....has nothing to do with rewards.....a few more marks added to the 100s I already have?, useless legendary/fabled drops?, a few Masters nobody I know needs.....for maybe some PP i really dont need.   And its in no way preventing someone from finsihing a quest.......they can have their own Library for that.../boggle.</p><p>Between raid nights there is nothing left in the game to do for me....(I am not a altoholic).</p>

[Banerm]

<p>I find it amusing that some many complaints are about out healing healers. You know the Real reason this happens? Gear! Not skills, spells or AAs; it's all the fatal lifetap procs then add in the stonewill procs. The gear is not hard to get with these procs on it and no matter the class it makes your group and solo content survivability insane. Add some skill, a good AA setup and at least expert spells then go have a freakin ball in SF.</p><p>It's already a known fact SF content is a joke in comparison to previous expansions. Bring back the heal crits, get the tanks on the same page and then slam an actual difficult expansion on us thus making this whole thing a non issue.</p><p>It's late, I'm rambling, so if it didn't make sense oh well.</p>

[Maamadex]

<p>Yeah people complaining about tanks outhealing healers clearly don't know where the heals are coming from.</p>

[Draylore]

<p><cite>Banerm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I find it amusing that some many complaints are about out healing healers. You know the Real reason this happens? Gear! Not skills, spells or AAs; it's all the fatal lifetap procs then add in the stonewill procs. The gear is not hard to get with these procs on it and no matter the class it makes your group and solo content survivability insane. Add some skill, a good AA setup and at least expert spells then go have a freakin ball in SF.</p><p>It's already a known fact SF content is a joke in comparison to previous expansions. Bring back the heal crits, get the tanks on the same page and then slam an actual difficult expansion on us thus making this whole thing a non issue.</p><p>It's late, I'm rambling, so if it didn't make sense oh well.</p></blockquote><p>This!!</p><p>Stuff in SF is stupidly easy relative to how stuff was in prior expansions and level cap increases.   Add to that the lame stat consolidation, powerful gear that is as equally stupidly easy to get even for the most casual and its no wonder we are seeing things as they are.  I was duo-boxing library,VD1 before i was 90 and still using TSO gear....thats just poor content design from the getgo.</p><p>Instead of nerfing the players (i.e heal crits, etc etc) which does nothing more than ruin what little fun remains in the game they should be buffing up the content ....which if done correctly increases the fun of the game.</p>

[Faith_heals]

<p><cite>Draylore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Banerm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I find it amusing that some many complaints are about out healing healers. You know the Real reason this happens? Gear! Not skills, spells or AAs; it's all the fatal lifetap procs then add in the stonewill procs. The gear is not hard to get with these procs on it and no matter the class it makes your group and solo content survivability insane. Add some skill, a good AA setup and at least expert spells then go have a freakin ball in SF.</p><p>It's already a known fact SF content is a joke in comparison to previous expansions. Bring back the heal crits, get the tanks on the same page and then slam an actual difficult expansion on us thus making this whole thing a non issue.</p><p>It's late, I'm rambling, so if it didn't make sense oh well.</p></blockquote><p>This!!</p><p>Stuff in SF is stupidly easy relative to how stuff was in prior expansions and level cap increases.   Add to that the lame stat consolidation, powerful gear that is as equally stupidly easy to get even for the most casual and its no wonder we are seeing things as they are.  I was duo-boxing library,VD1 before i was 90 and still using TSO gear....thats just poor content design from the getgo.</p><p>Instead of nerfing the players (i.e heal crits, etc etc) which does nothing more than ruin what little fun remains in the game they should be buffing up the content ....which if done correctly increases the fun of the game.</p></blockquote><p>Sorry but I dont want to go through the stupid raid content that was TSO. Lets jump through a hoop backwards while toggled on walk not run and at the same time cure 3 dots a curse and sing a song....yeah screw that.</p>

[Banerm]

<p><cite>Faith_heals wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Sorry but I dont want to go through the stupid raid content that was TSO. Lets jump through a hoop backwards while toggled on walk not run and at the same time cure 3 dots a curse and sing a song....yeah screw that.</p></blockquote><p>So in turn you want raid gear handed to you upon zoning in?</p>

[Terron]

<p><cite>Maamadex wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> it won't impact anybody's questing in instances like library.</p></blockquote><p>That is wrong. I was in a group and someone (not a guildy) left because he wanted gear to mute rather than an underequipped player needing so much of it. He said he could solo the zone and was doing us a favour.</p>

[Rahatmattata]

<p>Doing you a favor by leaving the group.</p>

[TerrorFirmer]

<p><cite>Terron@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Maamadex wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> it won't impact anybody's questing in instances like library.</p></blockquote><p>That is wrong. I was in a group and someone (not a guildy) left because he wanted gear to mute rather than an underequipped player needing so much of it. He said he could solo the zone and was doing us a favour.</p></blockquote><p>People needed the loot from Library?  This late in the expansion?  Wow... just wow. </p>

[TerrorFirmer]

<p>I would like to add that it is not only the heal crit nerf but the mitigation nerf that has cut Paladins down at the knees. </p><p>Our survivability took a huge nosedive because we were balanced around both.  A lot of our ability to tank comes from mitigation, through self warding/healing and armor, and now both of those have been nerfed.  We also don't have the death saves that other classes enjoy, we have one that heals you up a tiny bit (doesn't crit now) and you have to spend a ton of AA just to make it useful.</p><p>It is ridiculous seeing people cheer for a paladin nerf, they have been underdogs for a long time, and when they were actually useful everyone cries for a nerf.  Paladins have to work twice as hard to get a raid spot because they aren't respected like other tanks, and that is the truth.  A lot of this comes from a bias about amends, which I frankly hardly ever need to use.  I have other tanks, all of the time, cry about amends to me and say it is the reason I'm a good tank, not because I actually know how to tank.</p><p>Also, does anybody really care that some tanks could solo TRIVIAL group content?  Everyone cries so much about minor aspects of the game like starter group zones and they forget that the real focus is on advancing to higher levels of play.  When you reach those higher levels of play, of course you trivialize the initial content, because your gear and knowledge of the game is that much better.</p><p>Here's the thing, though.  You can cheer while paladins get nerfed to oblivion, that's fine, just don't go crying when your class is next.</p>

[Controlor]

<p><cite>TerrorFirmer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I would like to add that it is not only the heal crit nerf but the mitigation nerf that has cut Paladins down at the knees. </p><p>Our survivability took a huge nosedive because we were balanced around both.  A lot of our ability to tank comes from mitigation, through self warding/healing and armor, and now both of those have been nerfed.  We also don't have the death saves that other classes enjoy, we have one that heals you up a tiny bit (doesn't crit now) and you have to spend a ton of AA just to make it useful.</p><p>It is ridiculous seeing people cheer for a paladin nerf, they have been underdogs for a long time, and when they were actually useful everyone cries for a nerf.  Paladins have to work twice as hard to get a raid spot because they aren't respected like other tanks, and that is the truth.  A lot of this comes from a bias about amends, which I frankly hardly ever need to use.  I have other tanks, all of the time, cry about amends to me and say it is the reason I'm a good tank, not because I actually know how to tank.</p><p>Also, does anybody really care that some tanks could solo TRIVIAL group content?  Everyone cries so much about minor aspects of the game like starter group zones and they forget that the real focus is on advancing to higher levels of play.  When you reach those higher levels of play, of course you trivialize the initial content, because your gear and knowledge of the game is that much better.</p><p>Here's the thing, though.  You can cheer while paladins get nerfed to oblivion, that's fine, just don't go crying when your class is next.</p></blockquote><p>Yes the heal crit hurt us but a few comments on what you posted.</p><p>1) There has not been a mit nerf yet .... they are not changing mit around until next expac (Feb), So it remains to be seen whether the gear will compensate or not.</p><p>2) Yes divine favor has its downfalls (doesnt heal to full) but it only takes 3 AA and 1 red adorn to get it over 50% heal with no neg side effects, plus it can be cast in combat (Bloodletter cant ...).True though that most fights are so short that the time it takes to recast in a fight the fight will be over... that isnt the point.</p><p>3) yes amends isnt as strong as it used to be (since anyone can get to cap), but it is still nice if your scout isnt high enough dps (throw it on someone else higher to get more hate). Still is useful. But yah it is NOT the reason we generate hate which i agree with your point on.</p>

[TerrorFirmer]

<p><cite>Controlor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes the heal crit hurt us but a few comments on what you posted.</p><p>1) There has not been a mit nerf yet .... they are not changing mit around until next expac (Feb), So it remains to be seen whether the gear will compensate or not.</p><p>2) Yes divine favor has its downfalls (doesnt heal to full) but it only takes 3 AA and 1 red adorn to get it over 50% heal with no neg side effects, plus it can be cast in combat (Bloodletter cant ...).True though that most fights are so short that the time it takes to recast in a fight the fight will be over... that isnt the point.</p><p>3) yes amends isnt as strong as it used to be (since anyone can get to cap), but it is still nice if your scout isnt high enough dps (throw it on someone else higher to get more hate). Still is useful. But yah it is NOT the reason we generate hate which i agree with your point on.</p></blockquote><p>1)  Yes, but that's not the point.  It's coming, and it's only a matter of when.  When it comes, there better be some pretty significant changes to paladins to make up for the amputation they will have gone through.  Making our ward instant cast or unintertuptable would be a good start (and increase the base amount, obviously).  Also, all of our heals need to be reworked so that they can't be interupted and the base amount increased to make up for the loss of heal crit.  This may mean that they need to change the KOS AA starter ability to something else, but who cares? </p><p>2)  Having to spend 3 AA and a red adorn that a player may not have access to to make it to 50% health with no side effects is too high of a price to pay.  You mentioned bloodletter, it can have several triggers and heals the Shadowknight to full.  Although divine favor can be cast in combat, bloodletter has several triggers making that irrelevant.  I'm not saying that bloodletter is overpowered, it is actually just a good example of a death save.  I just want our death save to be brought more in line with other classes, a short duration damage immunity or large ward (even if it is only 3 or 4 seconds) would bring it more in line with where it needs to be.  Do I think this will change?  No.</p><p>3)  Glad you agree!  I rarely ever use amends because there are already other transfers in the group, and I have enough tools besides amends to keep aggro.  The only time I'd ever use it is if somebody is significantly out-parsing everyone else, then I will use it just to lower their hate (by giving some of it to me) and not necessarily to gain their hate (although this is a nice side effect).</p>

[Landiin]

<p>I find it funny you people are still bringing this up and QQ about it. There is a thread about your heals in your own forums, probably better if you keep it there as we will have no sympathy for you. This was the 2nd part of the fighter adjustments finally. Things are as they should of been when they 1st did 1.0. You all had just got use to the state of your class because it was left broke for so long. They said they would address Pally's miner healing issues and they will. Just hope it don't take them 2+ years to do it like it did for fighter 2.0 adjustments.</p>

[TerrorFirmer]

<p><cite>Toranx@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I find it funny you people are still bringing this up and QQ about it. There is a thread about your heals in your own forums, probably better if you keep it there as we will have no sympathy for you. This was the 2nd part of the fighter adjustments finally. Things are as they should of been when they 1st did 1.0. You all had just got use to the state of your class because it was left broke for so long. They said they would address Pally's miner healing issues and they will. Just hope it don't take them 2+ years to do it like it did for fighter 2.0 adjustments.</p></blockquote><p>This guy responds to a "QQ" by QQing himself.  I think paladins can talk about issues in the fighter forum, since they are fighters. </p><p>Like I said, don't you ever laugh when the hearse goes by.</p>

[Landiin]

<p>I really don't get where you think I was QQing? But its ok if you deflect, I understand. And NO you can not talk about issues here, go to your own forum and talk about issues. This is a happy place! We don't have issues here.</p>

[Rahatmattata]

<p><cite>TerrorFirmer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>This guy responds to a "QQ" by QQing himself.  I think paladins can talk about issues in the fighter forum, since they are fighters. <p>Like I said, don't you ever laugh when the hearse goes by.</p></blockquote><p>Pretty much any post where someone disagrees with you is interpreted as QQ, trolling, or being bad at playing EQ2 around here.</p>

[Cyrdemac]

<p><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>TerrorFirmer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>This guy responds to a "QQ" by QQing himself.  I think paladins can talk about issues in the fighter forum, since they are fighters. <p>Like I said, don't you ever laugh when the hearse goes by.</p></blockquote><p>Pretty much any post where <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">someone disagrees with you is interpreted</span> <em>I answer is meant</em> as QQ, trolling, or being bad at playing EQ2 around here.</p></blockquote><p>Corrected it for you.</p>

[Costa]

<p><cite>TerrorFirmer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Controlor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes the heal crit hurt us but a few comments on what you posted.</p><p>1) There has not been a mit nerf yet .... they are not changing mit around until next expac (Feb), So it remains to be seen whether the gear will compensate or not.</p><p>2) Yes divine favor has its downfalls (doesnt heal to full) but it only takes 3 AA and 1 red adorn to get it over 50% heal with no neg side effects, plus it can be cast in combat (Bloodletter cant ...).True though that most fights are so short that the time it takes to recast in a fight the fight will be over... that isnt the point.</p><p>3) yes amends isnt as strong as it used to be (since anyone can get to cap), but it is still nice if your scout isnt high enough dps (throw it on someone else higher to get more hate). Still is useful. But yah it is NOT the reason we generate hate which i agree with your point on.</p></blockquote><p>1)  Yes, but that's not the point.  It's coming, and it's only a matter of when.  When it comes, there better be some pretty significant changes to paladins to make up for the amputation they will have gone through.  Making our ward instant cast or unintertuptable would be a good start (and increase the base amount, obviously).  Also, all of our heals need to be reworked so that they can't be interupted and the base amount increased to make up for the loss of heal crit.  This may mean that they need to change the KOS AA starter ability to something else, but who cares? </p><p>2)  Having to spend 3 AA and a red adorn that a player may not have access to to make it to 50% health with no side effects is too high of a price to pay.  You mentioned bloodletter, it can have several triggers and heals the Shadowknight to full.  Although divine favor can be cast in combat, bloodletter has several triggers making that irrelevant.  I'm not saying that bloodletter is overpowered, it is actually just a good example of a death save.  I just want our death save to be brought more in line with other classes, a short duration damage immunity or large ward (even if it is only 3 or 4 seconds) would bring it more in line with where it needs to be.  Do I think this will change?  No.</p><p>3)  Glad you agree!  I rarely ever use amends because there are already other transfers in the group, and I have enough tools besides amends to keep aggro.  The only time I'd ever use it is if somebody is significantly out-parsing everyone else, then I will use it just to lower their hate (by giving some of it to me) and not necessarily to gain their hate (although this is a nice side effect).</p></blockquote><p>Not to nit pick about death saves and aa's etc but us Palys having to spend 5 aa or 1 red adorn and 3 aa's to make our deathsave have 0 side effetcs and heal for 50% isn't that bad when you consider a zerks and guards death save requires 5 aa's else they die when it expires. If the zerk isn't beserked when it expires he still die's. Plus their death saves are weaker so we can't complain too much about our's.</p><p>If it triggers we get back to 50% hp and that heal or ward the healer was probably casting gets us back on track. If it needs to trigger again before it's back up then you know you need to look at whats killing you and how to address it so the wipe is a good time to check and re-adjust.</p>

[Wurm]

<p><cite>Wasuna wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite></cite>Any knowledgable and well geared crusader can solo several of the current SF group instance and that is completely unacceptable. Other classes can do it also but I'm sticking to fighters here.</p></blockquote><p>Wow <strong>RAID</strong> gear is OP in <strong>heroic instances</strong>... whodofthunkit? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Take a knowledgable crusader in <strong>HEROIC INSTANCE AND MARK GEAR</strong> and you'll see that they aren't soloing those same instances.</p><p>So quit your whinefest, its getting old.</p>

[Wasuna]

<p>The defination of Heroic is basically group content. No one person should ever be able to do what a group is needed for in current content. Your assumptions and expetations are inconsistent with all previous expansion in EQ2. Having the ability to do something does not make it correct.</p>

[Bruener]

<p><cite>Wasuna wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The defination of Heroic is basically group content. No one person should ever be able to do what a group is needed for in current content. Your assumptions and expetations are inconsistent with all previous expansion in EQ2. Having the ability to do something does not make it correct.</p></blockquote><p>History calls you a liar.</p><p>There have always been classes that could solo Heroic content based on being over-geared.</p><p>You are amazingly good at being wrong.</p><p>I mean based on your argument a raid encounter should ALWAYS require 4 full groups no matter how good the gear too right?</p>

[MurFalad]

<p><cite>Bruener wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Wasuna wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The defination of Heroic is basically group content. No one person should ever be able to do what a group is needed for in current content. Your assumptions and expetations are inconsistent with all previous expansion in EQ2. Having the ability to do something does not make it correct.</p></blockquote><p>History calls you a liar.</p><p>There have always been classes that could solo Heroic content based on being over-geared.</p></blockquote><p>Because that part of the game was broken/wrong at the time.The entire point of heroic group content is that it requires a group.Once people can solo heroic content that is non-grey then we are either well overdue for a expansion to reset the gameplay (due to stats going well beyond values that work), or its sucky game mechanics design for the get go (SF, I'm looking at you and your 100% crit default!).Whenever the game is broken it should be fixed.  Grey shard runs, classes soloing group content etc do nothing for the health of the long term game.</p><p><cite>Bruener wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You are amazingly good at being wrong.</p><p>I mean based on your argument a raid encounter should ALWAYS require 4 full groups no matter how good the gear too right?</p></blockquote><p>Going from being able to solo 6-24 person non-grey content, to arguing that a successful raid force one member short shouldn't be possible is a strange leap of logic.</p>

[Jeal]

<p>why are classes being able to solo content any fault of the class?... maybe the content should stop being so easy to solo.</p>

[Costa]

<p>People were 3 manning some SF instances in previouse teir gear before they were even 90. Hell before i gained t9 raid armor and they nerfed fighter heal crits i would take 5 other guildies through research halls on my Pally and that was in a group make up without a healer. The encounters in the zone just don't do anything that you need a healer for if you stack up with plenty of dps to blow stuff up. This was a toon that was not max aa and still using lvl 80 pvp armor as it was better than most legendary drops from the instances.</p><p>The content has to be designed around a medium of the player base so the good players that are well geared are always going to go through content easier than players that are lower skilled and geared. If the devs just put a little more thought into named encounters that force you to need a healer or multiple people there would be no more soloing or not taking healers along on farm runs. That said who does it actually hurt when the player through gear and skill makes content trivial and can solo it or duo it? How many people posting on here that are lvl 80+ take less than a single group in PR for some fast easy plats?</p>

[Wasuna]

<p><cite>Bruener wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Wasuna wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The defination of Heroic is basically group content. No one person should ever be able to do what a group is needed for in current content. Your assumptions and expetations are inconsistent with all previous expansion in EQ2. Having the ability to do something does not make it correct.</p></blockquote><p>History calls you a liar.</p><p>There have always been classes that could solo Heroic content based on being over-geared.</p><p>You are amazingly good at being wrong.</p><p>I mean based on your argument a raid encounter should ALWAYS require 4 full groups no matter how good the gear too right?</p></blockquote><p>I'm sorry you can't comprehend what you read. Please note that 'current content' note. Doing PR back at the end of TSO was EASY. That was not current content. That was an expansion behind.</p><p>I'm afraid your amazingly good at not reading and understanding. I'm also not wrong. Current content should not be soloable at all.</p><p>Raid and group setup brings to much flexibility to things to be able to say that you need 24 people to win a raid and 6 people to do an instance. It's perfectly possible that you bring 'over geared' people to a instance and do it with 3 people. That perfectly understandable. You need a tank, a healer and DPS. Same with a raid, there easy mode and hard mode.</p><p>Once again you choose arguments that deflect attention in an attempt to protect your perfered class. Thank you for being consistant.</p>

[Wasuna]

<p><cite>Costa@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>People were 3 manning some SF instances in previouse teir gear before they were even 90. Hell before i gained t9 raid armor and they nerfed fighter heal crits i would take 5 other guildies through research halls on my Pally and that was in a group make up without a healer. The encounters in the zone just don't do anything that you need a healer for if you stack up with plenty of dps to blow stuff up. This was a toon that was not max aa and still using lvl 80 pvp armor as it was better than most legendary drops from the instances.</p><p>The content has to be designed around a medium of the player base so the good players that are well geared are always going to go through content easier than players that are lower skilled and geared. If the devs just put a little more thought into named encounters that force you to need a healer or multiple people there would be no more soloing or not taking healers along on farm runs. That said who does it actually hurt when the player through gear and skill makes content trivial and can solo it or duo it? How many people posting on here that are lvl 80+ take less than a single group in PR for some fast easy plats?</p></blockquote><p>Your a crusader. You can do more than most of the other fighters can. Your comments just provide more proof of how unbalanced the fighter classes are.</p>

[Wasuna]

<p><cite>Jeal@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>why are classes being able to solo content any fault of the class?... maybe the content should stop being so easy to solo.</p></blockquote><p>It's the fault of SoE. And your solution would just make it so the best fighters would have an even bigger piece of the pie. If the instances are harder, why would you ever bring anything other than a Crusader or Berserker? What about the rest of us? How are you going to fix us being viable clases now?</p>

[Costa]

<p><cite>Wasuna wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Costa@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>People were 3 manning some SF instances in previouse teir gear before they were even 90. Hell before i gained t9 raid armor and they nerfed fighter heal crits i would take 5 other guildies through research halls on my Pally and that was in a group make up without a healer. The encounters in the zone just don't do anything that you need a healer for if you stack up with plenty of dps to blow stuff up. This was a toon that was not max aa and still using lvl 80 pvp armor as it was better than most legendary drops from the instances.</p><p>The content has to be designed around a medium of the player base so the good players that are well geared are always going to go through content easier than players that are lower skilled and geared. If the devs just put a little more thought into named encounters that force you to need a healer or multiple people there would be no more soloing or not taking healers along on farm runs. That said who does it actually hurt when the player through gear and skill makes content trivial and can solo it or duo it? How many people posting on here that are lvl 80+ take less than a single group in PR for some fast easy plats?</p></blockquote><p>Your a crusader. You can do more than most of the other fighters can. Your comments just provide more proof of how unbalanced the fighter classes are.</p></blockquote><p>Actually our guilds guard 3 man's PR when hes got nothing better to do with a coercer and warden. I just solo OOA every day i'm on as it takes less than 30mins and yields as many plats over the down time of PR <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Also just for the record in TSO i could run Abbey without a healer in my pvp gear, that was before we had 100% crits on heals and as a hybrid class i had to build my gear for the role i wanted to play.</p><p>Yes as a fighter that heals i have an easier time of it in heroic content than a fighter that prevents x number of hits but thats how soe designed our classes. If you can't load up on ward/heal proc gear and go farm the same SF instances that crusaders are being told should not be possible thats not other classes faults. It's been mentioned before on these boards that guards can and have farmed these zones and it takes them just as long as us which is a few hours. If you really have several hours to spend clearing a zone that drops nothing of any real importance then maybe it's time people got up and went out a little bit more.</p><p>Also i am in nearly full t2 raid gear so i am going to find it easier to run any of the sf instances than another fighter regardless of class that is only in instance dropped gear. Like i said the devs need to work on mechanics that require either multiple people to do things to kill the nameds or (heaven forbid) they put more curses in that requires a healer to cure off else you get majorly de-buffed or killed after a short duration.</p>

[Aule]

Bringing a 3rd person to PR just dilutes your portion. You don't need anything beyond a tank and a healer.

[Prestissimo]

<p>Healing doesn't make the mob dead, hate doesn't make the mob dead, utility doesn't make the mob dead, only damage. Theoretically, there is a point at which you no longer need anything but damage. Until you reach that point, you only need a certain amount of survivability in which to get that dps off. There is a point at which you can't reach that point of survivability and in which case you must defer to heals in order to fill in that difference between riquired amount of survivability to straight burn and your current survivability. Most mobs aren't able to be outright blown up without being debuffed or without some form of additional buffing to the player, and most utility classes bring something that makes the dps get big fast for short durrations. Therefore, while not nessecary, utility helps, healers are only needed once the mob reaches a certain toughness, and tanks are only needed once a certain level of survivability is required because dps isn't high enough to kill the mob fast enough to zerg it.</p><p>THIS is why the whole overall system is doomed to break sooner or later as the game progresses on. The ONLY thing that is absolutely mandatory is damage and the other 3 types are optional and only become required at a certain point. There is really no way to make it absolutely mandatory for each archtype without it being rediculous, but there is a way to make sure that each class must make decisions that are non-trivial about survuvability vs dps or utility vs personal dps, or dps vs heal output, or what ever the scenario is.</p><p>The fact that the new system does not punish fighters for choosing to go full dps because 1: they can eventually zerg anything they want to anyway so why punish yourself by trying to do the "right thing" for the games health, and 2: more of their dps stats and more dps gear gives realistically more survivability and hate control than defensive gear does makes dps the only logical choice if you wish to progress, and 3: dps is just plain WAY to important over all other traits and scenarios in the game.</p><p>Realistically, the fighters are doing exactly what they're being pushed towards by SOE's poor balancing. It doesn't help the case that many fighters are overly too inlove with being poorly balanced towards being dps wearing plate and partial healers wearing plate doing dps. Paladin heals have always sucked hard, and with SF, they finally were worth casting. Then came the point when they became way too strong and beyond. Despite enjoying that my heals finally were not dripping with pure fail on every level, it also ruined it that the healer wasn't really needed on anything. Now paladin heals are back to being not worth casting, and the healer STILL isn't really needed because the gear is still capable of doing most of the work for them.</p><p>Despite the system being redone, it still needs to be redone yet again. They only put a temporary bandaid on the problem, and will ride out this patch fix until they can't anymore.</p>