GU57 Feedback [Archive] - Page 3 - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

rSpooky

08-24-2010, 12:51 PM

<cite>BadLuck wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shareana wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would like to remind everyone to plase take a few moments to look through the new <a href="list.m?topic_id=484648" target="_blank">Forum Guidelines</a> as they may have changed recently. I understand that as a player, you may feel frustrated, but by violating the forum guidelines, your viewpoint will not be seen <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>No one likes you, or cares what you have to say so please just go away k thx. Bunch of hot air</blockquote>WHy dont you behave a bit .. Just because this is the internet does not mean you get to behave so rude. I call out people like you in real life so I am calling you out here. Follow the rules or go away and stop ruining my game..!Carry on,

MalevolenceXXX

08-24-2010, 12:51 PM

Cancelling subscriptions over a UI update? Are you people serious?Yes, some of the changes are irritating, even aggravating. I too, think it is gross to remove crit heals on fighters when simply some nerfs of their heals would solve the problem without fundamentally changing the purpose of crit (I guess disabling crit was just easier). I also think it is abhorrent that no one appears to have listened AT ALL to the complaints on test.Do your hotbars still work? Do they still cast spells? For me, yes. So... you can still fight, earn xp, turn in quests. Yes some of the new animations SUCK, but some of them are pretty cool. That's the way I feel about the animations... about 50% cool, 50% meh. Surely not account-cancelling-bad. If they had to dumb down some of the animations so that lower-end PC's play the game better, SURELY we can live with some of the crappy new ones?Does the SC button really hurt your gameplay experience? It is tucked way in a corner where you almost never have to see it. If you hate it, don't click on it. I have often clicked on it myself, but never bought anything, because, well, it just seems silly to me to pay real $$ for something I'm already paying real money for every month. Yes it sucks that you can't get rid of the window entirely. It's annoying... not account-cancelling-bad.Let's get real, people. This game is run by a company. Their job is to make money. Do you think the devs really have any choice when their managers tell them "Put in the darn SC button or go find a new job". Would YOU want to be looking for a new job in this economy? BE GLAD the EQ2X servers are NOT part of LIVE. I am VERY happy about that. Let SOE go do their F2P stuff. Remember, more subscribers means more money for SOE. If they get enough new subscribers, the dev team will grow. We will see cooler stuff faster. A BUNCH OF NEW SUBSCRIBERS IS NOT NECESSARILY A BAD THING. Would you prefer the game continually lose money and the dev team shrink, new content be even crappier and take even longer to produce?I understand how deeply some of you love this game and your characters, and that change is difficult. I WOULD HOPE that SOE reads these posts and comes to the same conclusion... that you all LOVE THIS GAME AND YOUR CHARACTERS. If you didn't, you wouldn't be so upset. HOPEFULLY they understand that WE are the ones that have helped support this game, and mold it into its current state with our feedback (which, despite some major problems, is still the best MMO out there, IMO), and will listen to us.By and large my experience in EQ2 has not changed much. I'm still having fun. I hope you guys can see past the corporate greed and nonsense changes and stick around. I for one don't want EQ2 to die over a UI mod.

rSpooky

08-24-2010, 01:00 PM

<cite>Shill@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Let's get real, people. This game is run by a company. Their job is to make money. Do you think the devs really have any choice when their managers tell them "Put in the darn SC button or go find a new job". Would YOU want to be looking for a new job in this economy? </blockquote>Excellent point..IF you feel like blaming anyone for the changes, blame all those people that did not play EQ2. Even though community oriented it is not a charity , the goal is to make money. If your local bakery makes cookies you and a few others love, but no one else.. then eventualy they will stop selling those cookies to make room for cupcakes that sell to a bigger audience.

Kithica

08-24-2010, 01:12 PM

the problem is when a company puts the importance of income growth over flat out income. For some reason EQ2 has decided they needed growth and added this "pay to play" device. It's a mistake and will ruin EQ2.

katalmach

08-24-2010, 01:20 PM

<cite>Shill@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes some of the new animations SUCK, but some of them are pretty cool. That's the way I feel about the animations... about 50% cool, 50% meh. Surely not account-cancelling-bad. If they had to dumb down some of the animations so that lower-end PC's play the game better, SURELY we can live with some of the crappy new ones?</blockquote>When I started playing this game at launch in 2004, I had a lower-end PC. My graphics were so poor, none of the characters (NPCs or otherwise) had faces - they were just skin-coloured smudges. Yet, I loved the spell effects then - even on my cobbled-together, slow and ancient computer SIX YEARS AGO, the spell effects were a huge part of what attracted me to the game, and kept me playing this long.So yeah, to me it IS account-cancelling bad (already cancelled in fact!) and "lower-end pcs" is not an excuse. I had the lowest of the lower-end PCs for a long time and it was never an issue for me. Nevertheless, I'm willing to compromise and make it a toggleable option between "old" and "new" spell effects, for those who may have issues. SOE on the other hand seem completely unwilling to accomodate the players who have computers who could handle the old effects, and who preferred the old effects. And for that reason, I'm out!

Duhikae

08-24-2010, 01:56 PM

Since we are now just shy a week gone from the update with no red name responding in the official GU57 feedback thread, really no point in me adding my feedback on GU57.So here is my feedback on asking for feedback:If you want people canceling their accounts to fill out a survey, make sure it is brief, or at least give them the ability to end the survey when THEY are done.Otherwise, after clicking next a few times, they will just close it and move on.I doubt you care about that feedback any more than you care about this feedback, but since you are paying an outside company to run the survey, you should at least get your money's worth.

Ulrazaj

08-24-2010, 01:59 PM

<cite>Duhikae@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Since we are now just shy a week gone from the update with no red name responding in the official GU57 feedback thread, really no point in me adding my feedback on GU57.So here is my feedback on asking for feedback:If you want people canceling their accounts to fill out a survey, make sure it is brief, or at least give them the ability to end the survey when THEY are done.Otherwise, after clicking next a few times, they will just close it and move on.I doubt you care about that feedback any more than you care about this feedback, but since you are paying an outside company to run the survey, you should at least get your money's worth.</blockquote>This! QFE I found it extremely annoying when cancelling my account today.

Leafle

08-24-2010, 02:03 PM

<cite>Shill@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Cancelling subscriptions over a UI update? Are you people serious?</blockquote>Since the company we are paying our money to doesn't value or even listen to our feedback, we have exactly one way to make our opinions felt. If we're happy with what the company is doing, then we continue paying, and if we're not then we don't. It's the oldest and best method of corporate feedback.

Kithica

08-24-2010, 02:06 PM

This board should not be called "roundtable".

Ulrazaj

08-24-2010, 02:08 PM

<cite>Kithica@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>This board should not be called "roundtable".</blockquote>I agree, it should probably be called something like, "Customer concern trash bin"

MalevolenceXXX

08-24-2010, 02:51 PM

<cite>Leaflett wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shill@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Cancelling subscriptions over a UI update? Are you people serious?</blockquote>Since the company we are paying our money to doesn't value or even listen to our feedback, we have exactly one way to make our opinions felt. If we're happy with what the company is doing, then we continue paying, and if we're not then we don't. It's the oldest and best method of corporate feedback.</blockquote>I completely agree. Since community outrage has not garnered a response, and no one has responded, you have two options: keep playing with the new changes, or cancel your sub.I just didn't think the changes were so gross they made the GAME intolerable. Yes, the lack of response is disgusting, and yes, some of the changes are dumb**3. I personally just didn't think the changes were SO HORRIBLE they made the game unplayable. I mean, its not like they nerfed fighter heal crits or anything.... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" />Just my own opinion.

Amnerys

08-24-2010, 02:59 PM

Hi everyone. A couple of quick notes:1. Just because the devs don't post doesn't mean they aren't reading. It's not a requirement for any devs to ever post on our forums, so any posting that they do is above and beyond their duties. We do appreciate that many of them do post when they have time, or know answers to our questions, or want to comment or ask more questions about your feedback...but again, it's not required. So please keep that in mind when you are posting. There's a good chance they're reading what you're saying, but it is not required of them to reply.2. Your feedback is read by me, collected, and put into reports that I send on to the team and up the chain. So when I or one of the mods move it into a consolidated thread, it's so I can make sure your feedback is considered when I do my reports. If it's in a stray thread somewhere else, and only has a few replies, chances are I might miss it when I'm collecting data.3. The Moderators are here at my team's request, doing what we've asked of them. Do not abuse them. They volunteer their personal time to help us out, keeping things organized for our data collection, and keeping the place compliant with our posting guidelines. If you need a refresher on the <a href="list.m?topic_id=484648" target="_blank">Forum Guidelines</a>, please take a moment to look over them.That said, please keep leaving your constructive feedback. Thanks!

Kizee

08-24-2010, 03:01 PM

I wonder how many people actually canceled though.I would love to be a fly on the wall in one of smokescreens meetings if the sub numbers did plummet.I have canceled one of my accounts and if Befallens population gets any lower with no mergers in sight I will be outta here too.

Ulrazaj

08-24-2010, 03:11 PM

.

Leafle

08-24-2010, 03:14 PM

<cite>Shill@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Leaflett wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shill@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Cancelling subscriptions over a UI update? Are you people serious?</blockquote>Since the company we are paying our money to doesn't value or even listen to our feedback, we have exactly one way to make our opinions felt. If we're happy with what the company is doing, then we continue paying, and if we're not then we don't. It's the oldest and best method of corporate feedback.</blockquote>I completely agree. Since community outrage has not garnered a response, and no one has responded, you have two options: keep playing with the new changes, or cancel your sub.I just didn't think the changes were so gross they made the GAME intolerable. Yes, the lack of response is disgusting, and yes, some of the changes are dumb**3. I personally just didn't think the changes were SO HORRIBLE they made the game unplayable. I mean, its not like they nerfed fighter heal crits or anything.... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" />Just my own opinion.</blockquote>For us, it wasn't so much what they put in the game but what they left out.Let's do the math for me and the missus. 6 months ago we re-subbed on our yearly plan and each bought the collector's edition box for SF, which I might add was a disappointing expansion, so for the two of us:Yearly sub ($150 x 2) + Expansions ($60 x 2) = $420 we've given to SOE in the last 6 months.That's a lot of money to spend on just gaming, and what did we get for our money in that time? An expansion light on content and a game update with NO content. Oh, and for icing on the cake I got a reply from the dev team saying basically that they don't owe us content, even though they didn't seem to have a problem putting in RMT content. If that isn't a clear signal that it's time to move on, I sure don't know what is.

DuneWarrior

08-24-2010, 03:21 PM

<cite>Leaflett wrote:</cite><blockquote>For us, it wasn't so much what they put in the game but what they left out.Let's do the math for me and the missus. 6 months ago we re-subbed on our yearly plan and each bought the collector's edition box for SF, which I might add was a disappointing expansion, so for the two of us:Yearly sub ($150 x 2) + Expansions ($60 x 2) = $420 we've given to SOE in the last 6 months.That's a lot of money to spend on just gaming, and what did we get for our money in that time? An expansion light on content and a game update with NO content. Oh, and for icing on the cake I got a reply from the dev team saying basically that they don't owe us content, even though they didn't seem to have a problem putting in RMT content. If that isn't a clear signal that it's time to move on, I sure don't know what is.</blockquote>You forgot to mention that your paying for the support, developement, hardware and manhours used on EQ2X ... consideirng its the same people, game etc. And we all KNOW that there is no such thing as a free lunch etc.. so someone IS picking up the tab...

Hamervelder

08-24-2010, 03:22 PM

<cite>Amnerys wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hi everyone. A couple of quick notes:1. Just because the devs don't post doesn't mean they aren't reading. It's not a requirement for any devs to ever post on our forums, so any posting that they do is above and beyond their duties. We do appreciate that many of them do post when they have time, or know answers to our questions, or want to comment or ask more questions about your feedback...but again, it's not required. So please keep that in mind when you are posting. There's a good chance they're reading what you're saying, but it is not required of them to reply.</blockquote>Reading != listening. The devs can read all they want, but there's not much evidence that they're actually listening on the more important matters.

Attrikane

08-24-2010, 03:22 PM

<cite>Amnerys wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hi everyone. A couple of quick notes:1. Just because the devs don't post doesn't mean they aren't reading. It's not a requirement for any devs to ever post on our forums, so any posting that they do is above and beyond their duties. We do appreciate that many of them do post when they have time, or know answers to our questions, or want to comment or ask more questions about your feedback...but again, it's not required. So please keep that in mind when you are posting. There's a good chance they're reading what you're saying, but it is not required of them to reply.2. Your feedback is read by me, collected, and put into reports that I send on to the team and up the chain. So when I or one of the mods move it into a consolidated thread, it's so I can make sure your feedback is considered when I do my reports. If it's in a stray thread somewhere else, and only has a few replies, chances are I might miss it when I'm collecting data.3. The Moderators are here at my team's request, doing what we've asked of them. Do not abuse them. They volunteer their personal time to help us out, keeping things organized for our data collection, and keeping the place compliant with our posting guidelines. If you need a refresher on the <a href="list.m?topic_id=484648" target="_blank">Forum Guidelines</a>, please take a moment to look over them.That said, please keep leaving your constructive feedback. Thanks!</blockquote>Wow....I'd hate for you guys to have to go above and beyond. Just keep doing what you're doing....which is nothing productive.

Duhikae

08-24-2010, 03:33 PM

<cite>Amnerys wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hi everyone. A couple of quick notes:1. Just because the devs don't post doesn't mean they aren't reading. It's not a requirement for any devs to ever post on our forums, so any posting that they do is above and beyond their duties. We do appreciate that many of them do post when they have time, or know answers to our questions, or want to comment or ask more questions about your feedback...but again, it's not required. So please keep that in mind when you are posting. There's a good chance they're reading what you're saying, but it is not required of them to reply.</blockquote>Perhaps not, but if they want to quell the riots, they darn well better.35 pages and nothing to even indicate, "Hey, we get that you are [Removed for Content], and looking at how to best address the issues."No, they don't have to respond. We don't have to stay subscribed, either.

Leafle

08-24-2010, 03:49 PM

<cite>Zaktull@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Leaflett wrote:</cite><blockquote>For us, it wasn't so much what they put in the game but what they left out.Let's do the math for me and the missus. 6 months ago we re-subbed on our yearly plan and each bought the collector's edition box for SF, which I might add was a disappointing expansion, so for the two of us:Yearly sub ($150 x 2) + Expansions ($60 x 2) = $420 we've given to SOE in the last 6 months.That's a lot of money to spend on just gaming, and what did we get for our money in that time? An expansion light on content and a game update with NO content. Oh, and for icing on the cake I got a reply from the dev team saying basically that they don't owe us content, even though they didn't seem to have a problem putting in RMT content. If that isn't a clear signal that it's time to move on, I sure don't know what is.</blockquote>You forgot to mention that your paying for the support, developement, hardware and manhours used on EQ2X ... consideirng its the same people, game etc. And we all KNOW that there is no such thing as a free lunch etc.. so someone IS picking up the tab...</blockquote>Exactly. It's like I'm not just paying for steak and getting hamburger, but I'm paying for steak and they're giving my steak to someone else that didn't pay for it and telling me that they don't owe me steak (again, as they're giving it to someone else.)

megaira13

08-24-2010, 03:53 PM

<cite>Edit - oh god, sorry about that red text. eye popping! Trimmed up a bit, too.</cite><cite>Shill@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Cancelling subscriptions over a UI update? Are you people serious?From what I'm gathering here and on the guild forums, it is not so much the technical details of the LU (while some are "out there"), but the feeling of being shoved aside in favor of other things, and the feedback/interests of the EQII community being, largely, overlooked. If Benjiman Moore Paint said, "We know folks use our white and blue paints regularily, but red is trendy right now, so we're going to cut those paint options out of our line and develop more red," people would switch to another company to get their blue and white. There's no additional time or emotional investment to paint. However, there is with an MMO, especially one nearly 6 years old, where people have established guilds, friendships and built up their characters. Yes, some of the changes are irritating, even aggravating. I too, think it is gross to remove crit heals on fighters when simply some nerfs of their heals would solve the problem without fundamentally changing the purpose of crit (I guess disabling crit was just easier). I also think it is abhorrent that no one appears to have listened AT ALL to the complaints on test.Exactly. And this is what has turned people off. Not just the LU. The LU is more a symptom of the overall illness. Do your hotbars still work? Do they still cast spells? For me, yes. So... you can still fight, earn xp, turn in quests. Yes some of the new animations SUCK, but some of them are pretty cool. That's the way I feel about the animations... about 50% cool, 50% meh. Surely not account-cancelling-bad. If they had to dumb down some of the animations so that lower-end PC's play the game better, SURELY we can live with some of the crappy new ones?When would "it's still playable" be a selling point on a video game? I could serve you my sister's cooking and say "it's still edible" but that won't make it any easier to eat. Does the SC button really hurt your gameplay experience? It is tucked way in a corner where you almost never have to see it. If you hate it, don't click on it. I have often clicked on it myself, but never bought anything, because, well, it just seems silly to me to pay real $$ for something I'm already paying real money for every month. Yes it sucks that you can't get rid of the window entirely. It's annoying... not account-cancelling-bad.It's as fun as commercials on tv. Some reality can stay in the real world. Billboards would be one of them. Although, the idea of billboards littered all over Steamfont and Antonica really does truly amuse the heck out of me. Maybe as a live event. Let's get real, people. This game is run by a company. Their job is to make money. Do you think the devs really have any choice when their managers tell them "Put in the darn SC button or go find a new job". Would YOU want to be looking for a new job in this economy? You're telling people to get real and that it's all strictly business, and yet at the same time, you're suggesting they should have an emotional and compassionate response to the people who work for SOE. "In this economy," 15$ a month adds up. And, it's an expense that can be quickly deleted out of a monthly budget. Many folks either do station access, or have multiple accounts, or multiple people playing in the household, making that 15$ more like 30-60$ a month. That's a smartphone.For one player with one account, to play this game for 5 years, with station access, not including expansions and intial game purchase, or station cash spent, that's 1,800$. That is an unheard of amount of money to spend on a single video game. If you want people to get real, then they'll have to examine these things:-why am I paying for something that is frustrating, instead of satisfying, me?-why would I reward someone for a performance that needs improvement?-why am I spending a monthly fee on a video game?-is this worth my time?If people look at this game, without emotional attachment, the decision to chop it out of a monthly budget is simple. The fact that players do have emotional attachments and do look at this with a lack of "real" perspective, keeps them here. That emotional attachment shouldn't be expected and taken for granted, it must be tended to, as it is what breathes life into the game, rather than making it another hack and slash, buy it-play it-discard it pixel marathon. BE GLAD the EQ2X servers are NOT part of LIVE. I am VERY happy about that. Let SOE go do their F2P stuff. Remember, more subscribers means more money for SOE. If they get enough new subscribers, the dev team will grow. We will see cooler stuff faster. A BUNCH OF NEW SUBSCRIBERS IS NOT NECESSARILY A BAD THING. Would you prefer the game continually lose money and the dev team shrink, new content be even crappier and take even longer to produce?You're making assumptions of what would happen if EQ2X didn't exist. You don't know what would happen, or how their finances are run, and neither do the rest of us. You're also making a wildly optimistic assumption in thinking the dev team would grow and we'd see "cooler stuff faster." You have no idea this would be the case. As obnoxious as it might be to hear people say the sky is falling, it'd be just as silly for you to say invisible bunnies are holding it up. I understand how deeply some of you love this game and your characters, and that change is difficult. I WOULD HOPE that SOE reads these posts and comes to the same conclusion... that you all LOVE THIS GAME AND YOUR CHARACTERS. If you didn't, you wouldn't be so upset. HOPEFULLY they understand that WE are the ones that have helped support this game, and mold it into its current state with our feedback (which, despite some major problems, is still the best MMO out there, IMO), and will listen to us.Yes, hopefully they will understand this. By and large my experience in EQ2 has not changed much. I'm still having fun. I hope you guys can see past the corporate greed and nonsense changes and stick around. I for one don't want EQ2 to die over a UI mod.I've found that if my friends around me are upset and frustrated, I am not having fun. </blockquote>

Frenzywolf

08-24-2010, 03:53 PM

<cite>Shill@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Cancelling subscriptions over a UI update? Are you people serious?Yes, some of the changes are irritating, even aggravating. I too, think it is gross to remove crit heals on fighters when simply some nerfs of their heals would solve the problem without fundamentally changing the purpose of crit (I guess disabling crit was just easier). I also think it is abhorrent that no one appears to have listened AT ALL to the complaints on test.Do your hotbars still work? Do they still cast spells? For me, yes. So... you can still fight, earn xp, turn in quests. Yes some of the new animations SUCK, but some of them are pretty cool. That's the way I feel about the animations... about 50% cool, 50% meh. Surely not account-cancelling-bad. If they had to dumb down some of the animations so that lower-end PC's play the game better, SURELY we can live with some of the crappy new ones?Does the SC button really hurt your gameplay experience? It is tucked way in a corner where you almost never have to see it. If you hate it, don't click on it. I have often clicked on it myself, but never bought anything, because, well, it just seems silly to me to pay real $$ for something I'm already paying real money for every month. Yes it sucks that you can't get rid of the window entirely. It's annoying... not account-cancelling-bad.Let's get real, people. This game is run by a company. Their job is to make money. Do you think the devs really have any choice when their managers tell them "Put in the darn SC button or go find a new job". Would YOU want to be looking for a new job in this economy? BE GLAD the EQ2X servers are NOT part of LIVE. I am VERY happy about that. Let SOE go do their F2P stuff. Remember, more subscribers means more money for SOE. If they get enough new subscribers, the dev team will grow. We will see cooler stuff faster. A BUNCH OF NEW SUBSCRIBERS IS NOT NECESSARILY A BAD THING. Would you prefer the game continually lose money and the dev team shrink, new content be even crappier and take even longer to produce?I understand how deeply some of you love this game and your characters, and that change is difficult. I WOULD HOPE that SOE reads these posts and comes to the same conclusion... that you all LOVE THIS GAME AND YOUR CHARACTERS. If you didn't, you wouldn't be so upset. HOPEFULLY they understand that WE are the ones that have helped support this game, and mold it into its current state with our feedback (which, despite some major problems, is still the best MMO out there, IMO), and will listen to us.By and large my experience in EQ2 has not changed much. I'm still having fun. I hope you guys can see past the corporate greed and nonsense changes and stick around. I for one don't want EQ2 to die over a UI mod.</blockquote>Everyone has a breaking point and this for some was what broke the camel's back. Please understand what may be trivial to YOU may be a breaking point to another. If your reading, there are many that have played since launch or even before launch in beta... those players have been through many changes and worked with $OE but this was enough to break them and they cancel their subs. There is too much change, too quickly that affects gameplay that many are uncomfortable with and it was all due to the stupid EQ2X server. This GU spoke volumes to the fans of this game... that message was as many see it: $OE does not take into account their already loyal fans and will try to milk more out of them than they are paying now and the company will also try to grab a piece of the F2P crowd that does not have a good track record of sticking around for too long. It isn't all about just the UI, but also changes in the fighters and taking mounts off the NPC's selling them and placing them on SC instead, no new playable content, and the list goes on.Many of the loyal fans that have been playing this game feel that $OE's full intent is not make the game they love better but to turn it into a another RMT trash game where the wallet is power, not how you play the game.

KindredHeart

08-24-2010, 04:04 PM

You know what I loved was when one of the red text folks captured and summarized our feedback into a list - and then provided updates back from the Dev Team after they internally discussed. That experience rocked and I so wish we could have that happen on ill-recieved game updates like this one.Even though several players were unhappy, the way that was managed was helping keep everyone calm because we could see that our feedback was reaching the right people, actually being considered, and able to get an easy and quick status on decisions by checking one place whenever we wanted.The nature of the feedback was alot more positive too. Don't get me wrong ... people still didn't like things. But instead of just complaining people offered specific examples of what they were experiencing and creative suggestions for addressing the problems.Could we please have that again ... please? It absolutely rocked and is so very needed with a horrific game update like this one was.

Duhikae

08-24-2010, 04:32 PM

<cite>Shimmer@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I wonder how many people actually canceled though.</blockquote>I know my three are canceled. The funny thing is…the GU changes really didn’t do more than annoy me, personally. My UI got hosed and I wasted a few hours trying to get something back to ‘normal’, but I am back on the updated Fetish, so all is reasonably well.I am almost always in first person and don’t pay overly much attention to spell effects, so I didn’t really care that they were cheesified.My SK isn’t even 20 yet, so the fighter heal nerf wouldn’t affect my gameplay. By the time I got high enough for it to matter, it would be ‘normal’ to me.I actually kind of like the stuff I can get with station cash. I know my own personal view isn’t popular, but…I have a lot more money than I have time. I like being able to buy nice looking display only armor, xp potions, etc. I wouldn’t really want to see MC gear and such go up for sale, but as I already said in guild chat – if rares went on the Marketplace, I would be hard pressed to resist at some point. If there wasn't a huge uproar that wasn't being responded to, I wouldn't be canceling, and no one- aside from a few guilides- would have heard a peep from me about my dislike of the UI.I canceled because when I saw the huge outcry in my guild and went to look into what they were screaming about, I found out that not only were the majority of people unhappy…they had been arguing against the changes even when it was on Test.Then I saw that promises were made to keep station cash from overrunning the paid service, that the F2P wouldn’t affect our subscription service, etcAnd I saw that TPTB completely disregarded that, disregarded the wishes of the existing player base, and decided to throw all their eggs in the F2P basket.They can’t even be bothered to respond to the feedback being given.The perception I am being given is that SOE doesn’t care how upset their paid subscriber base gets. Their focus is on F2P now, so we can either fall in line or get run over. That’s fine. SOE is a business, and if they are convinced that the money they will make on F2P will outweigh the money they lose in paid a subscription, that’s their choice.I think it’s a bad choice, and think they could have rolled out F2P without having to ostracize the paid accounts, but that is irrelevant.What is relevant is that I don’t have to stick around and keep paying for a service from a company that clearly doesn’t care about addressing the concerns of a large number of their existing customers.So my three accounts are now canceled. Granted, the earliest they run out is January, so I’m not in search of a new game just yet, but it means I won’t be sinking any more money in to station cash, I won’t be preordering the next expansion (and I wanted to see how they handled flying mounts, too, darn it. Miss them from Vanguard)If SOE somehow manages to redeem itself by the time my prepaid time ends, I can always resubscribe.If they keep with their current modus operandi, though, I doubt that will occur, because by then, many of my favorite guildies will have left, or be looking to leave. If they are no longer around, I’ll have no reason to stay, either.

megaira13

08-24-2010, 04:39 PM

<cite>Vallar@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>You know what I loved was when one of the red text folks captured and summarized our feedback into a list - and then provided updates back from the Dev Team after they internally discussed. That experience rocked and I so wish we could have that happen on ill-recieved game updates like this one.Even though several players were unhappy, the way that was managed was helping keep everyone calm because we could see that our feedback was reaching the right people, actually being considered, and able to get an easy and quick status on decisions by checking one place whenever we wanted.The nature of the feedback was alot more positive too. Don't get me wrong ... people still didn't like things. But instead of just complaining people offered specific examples of what they were experiencing and creative suggestions for addressing the problems.Could we please have that again ... please? It absolutely rocked and is so very needed with a horrific game update like this one was.</blockquote>The "what bugs you most" thread went a long, long way towards positive faction. Even better when the Dev Q&A responded and went down the list of what was being fixed. That felt like an effort to reach back out to the game community and connect with them, personally.And, connection is sorely needed, as we've already established that this is not, on the player side, strictly business. It's good to see that it may not be, on the dev side, strictly business as well. Amenrys's post sort of illustrates it. I appreciate that she posted and clarified. But, I think that first point on the list, while factually accurate, implies something other than intended. Saying "they're not required to" suggests that unless a boss says "reply, or else" they'll simply not bother. This gives the impression of laziness to those who have no idea what the developer's day and workload is like. More than likely, it is: because the forums are huge, and a lot of people are weighing in, the devs may not be able to free up adequate time to examine each post, articulate a response, and get work done on their projects at the same time. The community relations team, however, is designed around this purpose and can helpfully funnel the data to the Devs in a way they can get through in an afternoon. It's a fair assumption that the devs were not hired for public relation skills, and rather more likely for their tech abilities. It is also logical to assume it would be unfair to them to expect them to handle PR on top of their daily work.It is not a bad thing to have the CR team as a mediator. But, that might have been better clarified at the beginning, as folks see dev posts and assume they handle both pr and tech, then wonder why there's no red response to such an outcry.Wasn't there a "day in the life of a dev" somewhere on eq2players a while back?Du, I hate to be reading that news HERE, just fyi. I haven't looked at our own forums yet. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Rothgar

08-24-2010, 04:57 PM

We definitely hear your concerns on GU57 and we would have loved to give you more features and content. We are working hard to make sure that the next update prior to the expansion launch has more for you. In fact we've recently decided to release an interim update in a couple months (GU57b if you will) so we can get some content out to you slightly before GU58 is due.We're also going over all of the Fan Faire feedback and trying to incorporate as many of your suggestions as possible. Unfortunately Fan Faire just feel too closely to GU57 and we weren't able to react to some of the feedback that fast.We'll also try to trickle some things out via hotfixes in the next few weeks as well.

Draylore

08-24-2010, 05:03 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>We definitely hear your concerns on GU57 and we would have loved to give you more features and content. We are working hard to make sure that the next update prior to the expansion launch has more for you. In fact we've recently decided to release an interim update in a couple months (GU57b if you will) so we can get some content out to you slightly before GU58 is due.We're also going over all of the Fan Faire feedback and trying to incorporate as many of your suggestions as possible. Unfortunately Fan Faire just feel too closely to GU57 and we weren't able to react to some of the feedback that fast.We'll also try to trickle some things out via hotfixes in the next few weeks as well.</blockquote>Forgive me for being blunt but I seriously doubt you are "hearing" the concerns. Everything expressed in this thread was expressed in the "in testing" version of this thread and yet this god forsaken insult of a GU went live.You guys did this on purpose.....I honestly believe you want to push away the "live" customers because we no longer fit into the new business model. Its the only logical explanation for why the bulk of the crap that was shoved into our face with this GU went live.

Ulrazaj

08-24-2010, 05:04 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>We definitely hear your concerns on GU57 and we would have loved to give you more features and content. We are working hard to make sure that the next update prior to the expansion launch has more for you. In fact we've recently decided to release an interim update in a couple months (GU57b if you will) so we can get some content out to you slightly before GU58 is due.We're also going over all of the Fan Faire feedback and trying to incorporate as many of your suggestions as possible. Unfortunately Fan Faire just feel too closely to GU57 and we weren't able to react to some of the feedback that fast.We'll also try to trickle some things out via hotfixes in the next few weeks as well.</blockquote>So basically they're going to add some features and content, not a word about removing the in your face RMT from live servers, reverting spell effects, SC items looking better than in game items, or any of our other complaints about this GU57. All the changes are here to stay, and more are on the way?

Leafle

08-24-2010, 05:10 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>We definitely hear your concerns on GU57 and we would have loved to give you more features and content. We are working hard to make sure that the next update prior to the expansion launch has more for you. In fact we've recently decided to release an interim update in a couple months (GU57b if you will) so we can get some content out to you slightly before GU58 is due.We're also going over all of the Fan Faire feedback and trying to incorporate as many of your suggestions as possible. Unfortunately Fan Faire just feel too closely to GU57 and we weren't able to react to some of the feedback that fast.We'll also try to trickle some things out via hotfixes in the next few weeks as well.</blockquote>That's at least a step in the right direction, thanks Rothgar.

Kosh

08-24-2010, 05:17 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>We definitely hear your concerns on GU57 and we would have loved to give you more features and content. We are working hard to make sure that the next update prior to the expansion launch has more for you. In fact we've recently decided to release an interim update in a couple months (GU57b if you will) so we can get some content out to you slightly before GU58 is due.We're also going over all of the Fan Faire feedback and trying to incorporate as many of your suggestions as possible. Unfortunately Fan Faire just feel too closely to GU57 and we weren't able to react to some of the feedback that fast.We'll also try to trickle some things out via hotfixes in the next few weeks as well.</blockquote>Much too little, Way too late.

Antigua

08-24-2010, 05:39 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>We definitely hear your concerns on GU57 and we would have loved to give you more features and content. We are working hard to make sure that the next update prior to the expansion launch has more for you. In fact we've recently decided to release an interim update in a couple months (GU57b if you will) so we can get some content out to you slightly before GU58 is due.We're also going over all of the Fan Faire feedback and trying to incorporate as many of your suggestions as possible. Unfortunately Fan Faire just feel too closely to GU57 and we weren't able to react to some of the feedback that fast.We'll also try to trickle some things out via hotfixes in the next few weeks as well.</blockquote>To paraphrase: We get that GU57 sucked. We're not going to do jack about it, though. But hey, our next update might actually have content in it! Heck, we might even be so magnimonious as to *give you content from it early*! We aren't going to fix anything from this update, and we're *certainly* not going to admit that *anything* might have been wrong or our fault in any way. But we *might do our jobs* and give you some content in the future! Just keep paying us and forget all the lies we've told you!----------------------------Thanks for the... well, that entire paragraph that addressed nothing. I think that somehow, it does an even better job of telling us exactly how much you care than the silence did. Up until now, I admit a little part of me was still hoping for one of you guys to go "Whoops, ok, we messed up. We apologize and we're going to fix it." And then, in my dream, you actually fixed it. And then I got a pony made of solid gold and had tea with the Empress. Man, it was a good dream.Edit: Dunno why I called it an expansion instead of an update.

KindredHeart

08-24-2010, 05:42 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>We'll also try to trickle some things out via hotfixes in the next few weeks as well.</blockquote>Thank you for the swift reply Rothgar. For myself, I don't need additional content - just the abilty to revert two parts of the UI and I'd be comfortable again (not out of my mind happy ... but comfortable). I get so upset every time I log in and have those things hitting me in the face ... if I could just change those two back I could honestly pretend the game update never happened. My zerker friend is another matter though ... I wish you luck getting him happy again - the guy has axes and knows how to use them <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><ul><li>Toggle option on Exp Bar - so I can put it back how it was without having to install a custom UI.</li><li>Toggle option on the unnecessary decorations on my spell bars</li></ul>I've been playing since launch - I remember when other cosmetic UI changes have been introduced we were typically given a toggle option between the old and new ... and there was always at least some "reason" behind the changes. Maybe there was such a reason for these two items as well, but if there was it has been very poorly communicated thus far - so we don't understand it and are having a hard time w/the expenditure of labor for cosmetics in lieu of actual game improvement. And that aggitation is being compounded by not being able to toggle them off.Thanks again

Jaremai

08-24-2010, 06:17 PM

<cite>Amnerys wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hi everyone. A couple of quick notes:1. Just because the devs don't post doesn't mean they aren't reading. It's not a requirement for any devs to ever post on our forums, so any posting that they do is above and beyond their duties.</blockquote>No offense, Amnerys for this.I agree it's not the job of the devs to post to the forums. It's more of the job of the company's Community Manager to be an interface with its customers and the gaming public. Interface is not one-way. Collecting information for reports is fine, but you have to communicate back to where you got that information from.If you're too involved with other stuff to be that liaison, maybe consider getting a marketing intern from a local college to start honing their PR skills and be the liaison back to the customers that are so very emotional about a lot of topics. It would go a long (long) way to restoring the trust that SOE once had back in the day.Simple stuff like "we had a meeting today to discuss how hard it would be to give you an option to choose the particle effects set. We don't have an answer yet, as the dev team is chewing on it. I'll give you an update next Tuesday. Keep in mind that update might not still have a date, but I'll at least let you know what progress we've made in the discussion."Interns are free. Communication is priceless.

pantherr

08-24-2010, 06:21 PM

<cite>Jaremai@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amnerys wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hi everyone. A couple of quick notes:1. Just because the devs don't post doesn't mean they aren't reading. It's not a requirement for any devs to ever post on our forums, so any posting that they do is above and beyond their duties.</blockquote>No offense, Amnerys for this.I agree it's not the job of the devs to post to the forums. It's more of the job of the company's Community Manager to be an interface with its customers and the gaming public. Interface is not one-way. Collecting information for reports is fine, but you have to communicate back to where you got that information from.If you're too involved with other stuff to be that liaison, maybe consider getting a marketing intern from a local college to start honing their PR skills and be the liaison back to the customers that are so very emotional about a lot of topics. It would go a long (long) way to restoring the trust that SOE once had back in the day.Simple stuff like "we had a meeting today to discuss how hard it would be to give you an option to choose the particle effects set. We don't have an answer yet, as the dev team is chewing on it. I'll give you an update next Tuesday. Keep in mind that update might not still have a date, but I'll at least let you know what progress we've made in the discussion."Interns are free. Communication is priceless.</blockquote>+1

Jeeshman

08-24-2010, 06:31 PM

<cite>Draylore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>We definitely hear your concerns on GU57 and we would have loved to give you more features and content. We are working hard to make sure that the next update prior to the expansion launch has more for you. In fact we've recently decided to release an interim update in a couple months (GU57b if you will) so we can get some content out to you slightly before GU58 is due.We're also going over all of the Fan Faire feedback and trying to incorporate as many of your suggestions as possible. Unfortunately Fan Faire just feel too closely to GU57 and we weren't able to react to some of the feedback that fast.We'll also try to trickle some things out via hotfixes in the next few weeks as well.</blockquote>Forgive me for being blunt but I seriously doubt you are "hearing" the concerns. Everything expressed in this thread was expressed in the "in testing" version of this thread and yet this god forsaken insult of a GU went live.You guys did this on purpose.....I honestly believe you want to push away the "live" customers because we no longer fit into the new business model. Its the only logical explanation for why the bulk of the crap that was shoved into our face with this GU went live.</blockquote>^^^^THIS.You have a much more difficult job now because the team must prove that it's not actively trying to get rid of us. Your post was a good start, but now how about explaining why there were no changes between the Test and Live versions of GU57? Is there a reason other than "we don't care about feedback we get on the Test servers?"

megaira13

08-24-2010, 06:42 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>We definitely hear your concerns on GU57 and we would have loved to give you more features and content. We are working hard to make sure that the next update prior to the expansion launch has more for you. In fact we've recently decided to release an interim update in a couple months (GU57b if you will) so we can get some content out to you slightly before GU58 is due.Thanks for posting.We're also going over all of the Fan Faire feedback and trying to incorporate as many of your suggestions as possible. Unfortunately Fan Faire just feel too closely to GU57 and we weren't able to react to some of the feedback that fast.I had forgotten all about Fan Faire and all the chaos that must have come with it. Oops! Someone's test server notes are being fished out of a pool filter somewhere, I'm sure.We'll also try to trickle some things out via hotfixes in the next few weeks as well.That's good news. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>"you did this on purpose."<img src="http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/6/25/633815170510035260-ibelieveyouhavemystapler.jpg" width="750" height="600" /><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

LordPazuzu

08-24-2010, 06:59 PM

This entire GU served very little purpose. You broke the UI, the spell graphic changes were a lateral change, they sucked before too, and I play on a live sub server, so EQ2X means nothing to me. In fact, EQ2X is a new service, not an update to an existing service. In effect, GU57 is not an update at all for your existing playerbase.Honestly, I'm already trying to convince my guild to try Rift when it launches. This GU says to me that SOE management is either clueless about its player base here, or doesn't really give a [Removed for Content] about EQ2 anymore. The decisions regarding the direction of the game have been largely unpopular and it seems like the dev team for the game as a whole has been reduced to the point where no worthwhile content is able to be created for updates. I feel like I've been left on the backburner here for too [Removed for Content] long.

Xal

08-24-2010, 07:17 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>We definitely hear your concerns on GU57 and we would have loved to give you more features and content. We are working hard to make sure that the next update prior to the expansion launch has more for you. In fact we've recently decided to release an interim update in a couple months (GU57b if you will) so we can get some content out to you slightly before GU58 is due.We're also going over all of the Fan Faire feedback and trying to incorporate as many of your suggestions as possible. Unfortunately Fan Faire just feel too closely to GU57 and we weren't able to react to some of the feedback that fast.We'll also try to trickle some things out via hotfixes in the next few weeks as well.</blockquote>I would really love to believe it, but here's the thing: If you consider a free to play business model, you'll basically have the same cost as with the monthly charges, but not the same stable income. People will pay you as long as there is new stuff for them in the game to buy. Considering the currently state Everquest 2 is in, the competition from other games and the volatility of F2P users, I'd say you have about a year where the current game is profitable. After that, you'll either start pushing new content en masse, or you'll just let the game die altogether. Seeing that you're downsizing the staff kinda makes me think it's option 1. But hey, there's EQ3 to look forward to, isn't it? Me thinks it will be released, oh i don't know, just around the point when EQ2 is finally sold out for good.If you really were trying to make the game for the existing community, we wouldn't be seeing the second GU within a year that has absolutely nothing to offer. We wouldn't be dealing with the same issues that have not even been commented on for 8 months and more. You wouldn't here devs claiming at the fan faire panels that they're unaware of exploits that completely disrupt gameplay for a subset of players, and that was documented and petitioned for months.Like I said, I'd love to believe that things were different here, I've logged into Everquest 2 on the first day of beta and stuck with it for most of the time. But when items start disappearing from the normal game and end up being sold for station cash - by 'mistake', of course, as we've been told - you'd really need a whole lot of optimism and I for one just don't have that in me any more. As previous posters have put it, way too late, and way, way too little. Canceled my subscription an hour ago.

Nuhus

08-24-2010, 07:24 PM

<cite>Gutsherren@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Like I said, I'd love to believe that things were different here, I've logged into Everquest 2 on the first day of beta and stuck with it for most of the time. But when items start disappearing from the normal game and end up being sold for station cash - by 'mistake', of course, as we've been told - you'd really need a whole lot of optimism and I for one just don't have that in me any more. As previous posters have put it, way too late, and way, way too little. Canceled my subscription an hour ago.</blockquote>They said it was a mistake? I don't recall that, just smokejumper didn't see what the big deal with it was.

Dreadpatch

08-24-2010, 07:25 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>We definitely hear your concerns on GU57 and we would have loved to give you more features and content. We are working hard to make sure that the next update prior to the expansion launch has more for you. In fact we've recently decided to release an interim update in a couple months (GU57b if you will) so we can get some content out to you slightly before GU58 is due.I know this game update sucks and it was created solely for the creation of EQ2X. I like having a job, so I was left with no other choice but to do what I was told to by the people that sign my paycheck. I can't change what I've done (as it has been commanded), but I would like to do my best to make it up to you now that the damage is most likely on an irreversable course. The only thing I can do is try to crank out some new content as quickly as possible, as I'm stuck with the current changes.We're also going over all of the Fan Faire feedback and trying to incorporate as many of your suggestions as possible. Unfortunately Fan Faire just feel too closely to GU57 and we weren't able to react to some of the feedback that fast.The people that needed to hear the wrath of our customers weren't at Fanfaire, so we had to do the best we could to make the event enjoyable and steer clear of the minefield as much as possible. We will do what is within our power to try and make some changes based on feedback.We'll also try to trickle some things out via hotfixes in the next few weeks as well.</blockquote>I have been very outspoken since test regarding the direction the game is heading. I would like to translate what I believe Rothgar is saying, which I appreciate. He's is putting it in a way that ensures he gets to keep his job.I respect that fact that he at least was willing to post. Smokejumper has been posting left and right on the EQ2X forums, but hasn't said anything over on this side of the forums. Thanks Rothgar...

Frenzywolf

08-24-2010, 07:57 PM

<cite>Elusion@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>We definitely hear your concerns on GU57 and we would have loved to give you more features and content. We are working hard to make sure that the next update prior to the expansion launch has more for you. In fact we've recently decided to release an interim update in a couple months (GU57b if you will) so we can get some content out to you slightly before GU58 is due.I know this game update sucks and it was created solely for the creation of EQ2X. I like having a job, so I was left with no other choice but to do what I was told to by the people that sign my paycheck. I can't change what I've done (as it has been commanded), but I would like to do my best to make it up to you now that the damage is most likely on an irreversable course. The only thing I can do is try to crank out some new content as quickly as possible, as I'm stuck with the current changes.We're also going over all of the Fan Faire feedback and trying to incorporate as many of your suggestions as possible. Unfortunately Fan Faire just feel too closely to GU57 and we weren't able to react to some of the feedback that fast.The people that needed to hear the wrath of our customers weren't at Fanfaire, so we had to do the best we could to make the event enjoyable and steer clear of the minefield as much as possible. We will do what is within our power to try and make some changes based on feedback.We'll also try to trickle some things out via hotfixes in the next few weeks as well.</blockquote>I have been very outspoken since test regarding the direction the game is heading. I would like to translate what I believe Rothgar is saying, which I appreciate. He's is putting it in a way that ensures he gets to keep his job.I respect that fact that he at least was willing to post. Smokejumper has been posting left and right on the EQ2X forums, but hasn't said anything over on this side of the forums. Thanks Rothgar...</blockquote>Smokejumper is not posting on Legacy forums, as I have a feeling he has no clue how to handle us but he can rock and roll with RMT/FTP because that is where is expertise is. He most likely doesn't know how to deal with P2Pers just the formentioned. Sad really because this game use to be great and now it is slowly sinking in the muck. I get a feeling Smokejumper has no interest in those that P2P and would just love to see us dwindle and die.

RafaelSmith

08-24-2010, 08:11 PM

<cite>Frenzywolf@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Elusion@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>We definitely hear your concerns on GU57 and we would have loved to give you more features and content. We are working hard to make sure that the next update prior to the expansion launch has more for you. In fact we've recently decided to release an interim update in a couple months (GU57b if you will) so we can get some content out to you slightly before GU58 is due.I know this game update sucks and it was created solely for the creation of EQ2X. I like having a job, so I was left with no other choice but to do what I was told to by the people that sign my paycheck. I can't change what I've done (as it has been commanded), but I would like to do my best to make it up to you now that the damage is most likely on an irreversable course. The only thing I can do is try to crank out some new content as quickly as possible, as I'm stuck with the current changes.We're also going over all of the Fan Faire feedback and trying to incorporate as many of your suggestions as possible. Unfortunately Fan Faire just feel too closely to GU57 and we weren't able to react to some of the feedback that fast.The people that needed to hear the wrath of our customers weren't at Fanfaire, so we had to do the best we could to make the event enjoyable and steer clear of the minefield as much as possible. We will do what is within our power to try and make some changes based on feedback.We'll also try to trickle some things out via hotfixes in the next few weeks as well.</blockquote>I have been very outspoken since test regarding the direction the game is heading. I would like to translate what I believe Rothgar is saying, which I appreciate. He's is putting it in a way that ensures he gets to keep his job.I respect that fact that he at least was willing to post. Smokejumper has been posting left and right on the EQ2X forums, but hasn't said anything over on this side of the forums. Thanks Rothgar...</blockquote>Smokejumper is not posting on Legacy forums, as I have a feeling he has no clue how to handle us but he can rock and roll with RMT/FTP because that is where is expertise is. He most likely doesn't know how to deal with P2Pers just the formentioned. Sad really because this game use to be great and now it is slowly sinking in the muck. I get a feeling Smokejumper has no interest in those that P2P and would just love to see us dwindle and die.</blockquote>Smokejumper will go down as the worse thing to have ever happend to the EQ franchise.......ive been with EQ/EQ2 now for over 10 years and trust me thats saying alot.

Anestacia

08-24-2010, 08:36 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>We definitely hear your concerns on GU57 and we would have loved to give you more features and content. We are working hard to make sure that the next update prior to the expansion launch has more for you. In fact we've recently decided to release an interim update in a couple months (GU57b if you will) so we can get some content out to you slightly before GU58 is due.We're also going over all of the Fan Faire feedback and trying to incorporate as many of your suggestions as possible. Unfortunately Fan Faire just feel too closely to GU57 and we weren't able to react to some of the feedback that fast.We'll also try to trickle some things out via hotfixes in the next few weeks as well.</blockquote>Thank you for your reply, Rothgar. I know it would be really easy not to post here but thank you for doing it anyway despite the negative feedback. You have always been excellent about keeping the community in the loop whether it be good news or bad. Your replies are apreciated by at least some of us.

Théodwyn

08-24-2010, 08:40 PM

<cite>Jaremai@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amnerys wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hi everyone. A couple of quick notes:1. Just because the devs don't post doesn't mean they aren't reading. It's not a requirement for any devs to ever post on our forums, so any posting that they do is above and beyond their duties.</blockquote>No offense, Amnerys for this.I agree it's not the job of the devs to post to the forums. It's more of the job of the company's Community Manager to be an interface with its customers and the gaming public. Interface is not one-way. Collecting information for reports is fine, but you have to communicate back to where you got that information from.If you're too involved with other stuff to be that liaison, maybe consider getting a marketing intern from a local college to start honing their PR skills and be the liaison back to the customers that are so very emotional about a lot of topics. It would go a long (long) way to restoring the trust that SOE once had back in the day.Simple stuff like "we had a meeting today to discuss how hard it would be to give you an option to choose the particle effects set. We don't have an answer yet, as the dev team is chewing on it. I'll give you an update next Tuesday. Keep in mind that update might not still have a date, but I'll at least let you know what progress we've made in the discussion."Interns are free. Communication is priceless.</blockquote>Hear hear!

Garondthus

08-24-2010, 08:43 PM

I don't believe that you didn't know all the live people were probably going to quit when presented with GU57, most specifically the spell effects. You must really believe that you are going to lure new people in to the Live server and milk them through the store. You'll get some, but all the people that have kept you in business since the beginning deserve better! Try as I might, I cannot stomach the new spell effects at all. After reading this thread and realizing that you will not be reinstating the old effects, I canceled my account yesterday. This was my favorite game to play, and it brought me years of enjoyment, but no more. Giving up this game has made me feel like an old friend just died. What's crazy, is there was no need for this. Goodbye EQ2. It's off to other MMO's and RPGs.

Cheydak

08-24-2010, 08:59 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>We definitely hear your concerns on GU57 and we would have loved to give you more features and content. We are working hard to make sure that the next update prior to the expansion launch has more for you. In fact we've recently decided to release an interim update in a couple months (GU57b if you will) so we can get some content out to you slightly before GU58 is due.We're also going over all of the Fan Faire feedback and trying to incorporate as many of your suggestions as possible. Unfortunately Fan Faire just feel too closely to GU57 and we weren't able to react to some of the feedback that fast.We'll also try to trickle some things out via hotfixes in the next few weeks as well.</blockquote>I'm sorry you got the short straw Rothgar since you're about the only dev left that's worth a crap. Tell Smokejumper to brave the flames over here and do his own dirty work. Unfortunately, insulting our intelligence by dangling shinies in front of us like that's going to wipe away the taint of this past update won't help fix matters with any player that has an IQ higher than a grapefruit. My account is still cancelled.

isest

08-24-2010, 09:26 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>We definitely hear your concerns on GU57 and we would have loved to give you more features and content. We are working hard to make sure that the next update prior to the expansion launch has more for you. In fact we've recently decided to release an interim update in a couple months (GU57b if you will) so we can get some content out to you slightly before GU58 is due.We're also going over all of the Fan Faire feedback and trying to incorporate as many of your suggestions as possible. Unfortunately Fan Faire just feel too closely to GU57 and we weren't able to react to some of the feedback that fast.We'll also try to trickle some things out via hotfixes in the next few weeks as well.</blockquote>I'm not really asking for content. What I am asking for is my spell effects back or sort of back. My troubadour suffered the worse. While your not the dev working on that bit I kind of feel a bit put off that we removed good stuff out of the game. Perhaps you can ask they to tell us why were not getting floating spell around our dirges like we had since the dawn of the game. Taking stuff away that makes it less for for us, is not the way to make folks happy.Honestly I'm trying not to rant to hard but you have to ask yourself why remove stuff that folks loved, and replace it with bland stuff.--- sad panda face about most of whats going on. I guess the true statement is sometimes we dont like change, especially when it was not needed.

Leafle

08-24-2010, 09:43 PM

<cite>isest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Honestly I'm trying not to rant to hard but you have to ask yourself why remove stuff that folks loved, and replace it with bland stuff.</blockquote>For the same reason they dumbed-down the textures, and for the same reason that WOW has such cartoonish graphics, so that the game will run on a wider range of machines. If the cheap laptop you bought your little Johnny for school will run the game then that's more warm bodies to buy Smedly-Bucks (tm).It's another insult to subscribers, because we're more affluent and we actually care about the hardware we're running, so we're not going to generally like the dumbed-down graphics. Seems like they could cater to both and just put a "dumb down the graphics" checkbox somewhere in the options and maybe even check it by default. But it's like I've been saying. They're betting the farm on EQ2X and it appears that we're now plan B. Of course I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

KM

08-24-2010, 09:54 PM

I commend Rothgar for speaking, well done mate.It has all been said over and over there is not much left that can be said except to hope that the repeating of the same issues & players feelings get's SoE to take note and consider saving what once was the best game (by far) and one that was unique in it's genre.It doesn't seem this will ever happen and so many of the long time players have already left or are just playing out the rest of the billing cycle and the quality of the on server EQ2 community is starting to reflect this.At least one of the devs had the guts to post, even if not what we wanted/hoped to hear. To bad more of SoE probably won't take anything from this particular Dev and step up as well.2 of 3 accounts down, 14 days to play out on last one.

lollipop

08-24-2010, 10:20 PM

Thanks for posting Rothgar. I do wish you would have gotten smoketards job. Maybe if or when he falls on his face you will.

KM

08-24-2010, 11:55 PM

I do question the cop-out of the fan-faire comment tho. Did the people of Test not shout "we hate this" loud enough?

KNINE

08-25-2010, 04:42 AM

<cite>Amnerys wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hi everyone. A couple of quick notes:1. Just because the devs don't post doesn't mean they aren't reading. It's not a requirement for any devs to ever post on our forums, so any posting that they do is above and beyond their duties. We do appreciate that many of them do post when they have time, or know answers to our questions, or want to comment or ask more questions about your feedback...but again, it's not required. So please keep that in mind when you are posting. There's a good chance they're reading what you're saying, but it is not required of them to reply.2. Your feedback is read by me, collected, and put into reports that I send on to the team and up the chain. So when I or one of the mods move it into a consolidated thread, it's so I can make sure your feedback is considered when I do my reports. If it's in a stray thread somewhere else, and only has a few replies, chances are I might miss it when I'm collecting data.3. The Moderators are here at my team's request, doing what we've asked of them. Do not abuse them. They volunteer their personal time to help us out, keeping things organized for our data collection, and keeping the place compliant with our posting guidelines. If you need a refresher on the <a href="list.m?topic_id=484648" target="_blank">Forum Guidelines</a>, please take a moment to look over them.That said, please keep leaving your constructive feedback. Thanks!</blockquote>Its not a requirement for people on test to post feedback after spending time playing and "testing" material for SOE either, but they do and get ignored.. no point in having a test sever really lolI hope you have collected the over 37 pages worth of negativity about this update, and sure mods have said they know this suck, and its their job.. blah blah blah, but really.. if something is not worth it, someone has to listen or go on strike or some stuff..Sorry moderators are being overworked or abused, but people would like to see responses to why they are paying for a game, that they give input on and get ignored..I would say the same to you all as you say to us.. if you don't like seeing it then discontinue reading it.. obviously your reports are looked at as well as our feedback... circular recycle bin FTW!!!! thats about how that goes.. good to see you waste your time as well, makes up for it a little bit

Zorastiz

08-25-2010, 06:32 AM

<cite>Amnerys wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hi everyone. A couple of quick notes:1. Just because the devs don't post doesn't mean they aren't reading. It's not a requirement for any devs to ever post on our forums, so any posting that they do is above and beyond their duties.</blockquote>Well thanks for going above and beyond your duties, it's not in my job description to provide technical support to all the customers that call the facility I work in either but I do it all day. I figure the customers pay my salary so it is in my best interest to make them happy, which is something you all are not very good at. (making or keeping the customer happy)/FAIL

Pervis

08-25-2010, 08:20 AM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>We definitely hear your concerns on GU57 and we would have loved to give you more features and content. We are working hard to make sure that the next update prior to the expansion launch has more for you. In fact we've recently decided to release an interim update in a couple months (GU57b if you will) so we can get some content out to you slightly before GU58 is due.We're also going over all of the Fan Faire feedback and trying to incorporate as many of your suggestions as possible. Unfortunately Fan Faire just feel too closely to GU57 and we weren't able to react to some of the feedback that fast.We'll also try to trickle some things out via hotfixes in the next few weeks as well.</blockquote>I find it amusing they got you to post this; the only developer that us players actually have any faith in.This is a post Smokeblower should have made. Its not that it isn't good to hear, its just that as Senior Producer, Smokeblower seems to be overly distant to subscribed players right now. Almost as much as Waters was before someone told him to start posting.Even more than GU#57b, what I'd love to see is an explanation behind why you guys thought us players would be happy with the update we just got and why we were ignored when it was on test.I know I won't get it, because the answer to those questions would revolve around the fact that GU#57 was pushed out in hopes that us players would just suck it up and move on, that we wouldn't complain nearly as loudly as we are. Instead of that, what you ended up with is us players complaining so loudly that we can be heard from other MMOs, our complains are top news in the MMO world right now, and now you guys need to work on damage control because we are stopping people trying out EQ2X. We will not get our answers, because although it is all true, the above is something that no one from SOE will want to admit to.

Stacatto

08-25-2010, 09:02 AM

I had voice several complaints regarding GU57, EQII's current status, and direction but after playing a bit last night I want to share what I posted on another forum explaining my experience and what I have found to be more true regarding everything that is going on...From other message board....I guess sometime you have to admit when you are wrong and I'm going to have to change my opinion about EQII and their most recent changes.When the GU57 came out I played for evening and was somewhat disgusted. It didn't help listening to all the flaming going on in game and in the forums but, I let it get to me.I took a break and played some EQMac (which is very nice for those looking for a more pure EQ experience) but then my Dad called me and talked me into giving EQII a chance and rolling with him on AB. So I did... AB is a totally different EQII experience. I have to say they made DW and Neriak so nice. It is really an improvement from what I saw in terms of a new player/character from what was and used to be. The server is so heavily populated to that you don't realize how much player base you losing splitting the factions into two separate teams. DW had 50 people in it all day and night. We popped in and out of other places and saw about the same thing. Not to mention people putting together groups and raid all evening during the peak hours. I was extremely impressed. I think it became more evident that a healthy server and good people go a long way. I missed the PvP aspect but, to be honest, Nagafen really doesn't have on going open PvP anymore. WF are a waste of time (which is a shame) and I can still play BG's on AB. I regards to the UI which initially left a bad taste in my mouth, really isn't that bad. The EXP bar isn't my taste but with the condition the community/server is in, it becomes a moot point. Animations, etc. really mean nothing either. The help features that come up now are nicely done and would be very beneficial to a new player.So, I guess I found that the problem with EQII is the fact every server isn't has healthy as AB. Nagafen was and is somewhat still great. I have a lot of friends there but it doesn't have the tier to tier population to support its purpose. When you pull it all together, EQII is a very solid PvE game and the BG's fill my PvP wants and needs.EQII made a lot of strides with this update if they are looking to gain new subs. If people would give it a chance i'm sure they would be very please with the end product. I have my complaints but if you pick a healthy server, they will be insignificant due the good that is present.If you are curious about EQII or disgruntle in any way, I suggest giving this a try. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

Antigua

08-25-2010, 10:26 AM

<cite>Stacatto wrote:</cite><blockquote>AB is a totally different EQII experience. I have to say they made DW and Neriak so nice. It is really an improvement from what I saw in terms of a new player/character from what was and used to be. The server is so heavily populated to that you don't realize how much player base you losing splitting the factions into two separate teams. DW had 50 people in it all day and night. We popped in and out of other places and saw about the same thing. Not to mention people putting together groups and raid all evening during the peak hours. I was extremely impressed. I think it became more evident that a healthy server and good people go a long way. I missed the PvP aspect but, to be honest, Nagafen really doesn't have on going open PvP anymore. WF are a waste of time (which is a shame) and I can still play BG's on AB. I regards to the UI which initially left a bad taste in my mouth, really isn't that bad. The EXP bar isn't my taste but with the condition the community/server is in, it becomes a moot point. Animations, etc. really mean nothing either. The help features that come up now are nicely done and would be very beneficial to a new player.So, I guess I found that the problem with EQII is the fact every server isn't has healthy as AB. Nagafen was and is somewhat still great. I have a lot of friends there but it doesn't have the tier to tier population to support its purpose. When you pull it all together, EQII is a very solid PvE game and the BG's fill my PvP wants and needs.EQII made a lot of strides with this update if they are looking to gain new subs. If people would give it a chance i'm sure they would be very please with the end product. I have my complaints but if you pick a healthy server, they will be insignificant due the good that is present.If you are curious about EQII or disgruntle in any way, I suggest giving this a try. I think you will be pleasantly surprised. </blockquote>Dude, you're missing the point. We're not upset because our server(s) has a low population. If we're playing on a low-pop server and refuse to move, that's our call.We're [Removed for Content] because we have been lied to, ignored, and treated like tourists on a Tijuana street corner (and the guys following us around, loudly trying to sell us their sisters for 5 bucks even have the gall to act like *they're* doing *us* a favor.) We're [Removed for Content] because they've diminished our control of our own [Removed for Content] UI, because they've taken from us to give to the F2P players, and we're [Removed for Content] because they don't even have the stones to say "We did this, we aren't changing it, like it or leave."And to everyone saying "The developers are just doing their job:" So what? How does that absolve them? I worked for a crappy company that ripped off customers once - and I had the integrity to say "screw this" and quit.

rwiz

08-25-2010, 10:40 AM

I think that EQ2 wanted to become a cinematic MMO.Then, how if the commercial flows to the movie from first to last?For instance, like this.<img src="http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/8113/59983e55.jpg" />It will spoil the movie.

Pervis

08-25-2010, 10:48 AM

<cite>Stacatto wrote:</cite><blockquote>new player/characternew player.new subs</blockquote>What about veteran players?Its ok to ADD stuff in for new players. Its NOT ok to CHANGE stuff for new players, or to go an entire update cycle with nothing at all for veteran players.

Xal

08-25-2010, 10:58 AM

<cite>rwiz wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think that EQ2 wanted to become a cinematic MMO.Then, how if the commercial flows to the movie from first to last?For instance, like this.<img src="http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/8113/59983e55.jpg" />It will spoil the movie.</blockquote>Like the comparison. However, for it work, you'd have to add something long the lines of 'plus we're not making any new movies, but here, we're given you the old ones at increased price. We've cut the movie by 10%, but we filled it with tons of cheap-looking CGI'. Come to think of it, EQ2 is becoming a lot like the reimagined star wars series...

Xethren

08-25-2010, 11:00 AM

At the very least, I hope you can find a way for a toggle option whether you want to use the new or old spells. I dont hate the new effects, but they are pretty lackluster compared to the old ones.I know the old effects are still in game, as the illusionist pet was using them <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />EQ2 is circling the drain, I hope very very much that Velious is not a repeat of SF where we have lackluster, boring quests; items with graphics that you can get at level one; more token grinding for armor- shards and Marks- these are getting very annoying, small overland zones where half the map is unused.We want to see the game succeed, but if you guys continue to hose us like this the Live servers will shrink. Instead of keeping all the nice-looking gear art to SC items, save that for Velious and stick up cheaper armor with the same appearances of stuff already in the game. For instance: say someone wants the shiny robe the shard gear merchants wear but they dont have the means or want to run Kurns to try to get it from the boss (or wherever else it drops), so you offer them an appearance-only no-stat $3-5 alternative that has the same look. That is how microtransactions should work. Not by saving all the best-looking stuff only for those that want to pay out the nose for it.Also, SC prices need to be dropped. They are way past what most consider Micro. You should not have to pay your monthly sub just for a cloak, five dollars max.I hope Rothgar continues the communication with us. Velious needs to be EQ2's most epic expansion otherwise lots of players are going to leave the game if its another flop like SF was. Also with the AA cap raise, please please lower the AA leveling curve. AA are way too slow once you get past 200.

EQPrime

08-25-2010, 11:21 AM

Rothgar, I give you credit for posting and trying a little damage control (especially when it should be smedjumper doing it), but I think it's a bit too late for that. The team completely ignored the testing feedback for this update and pushed it through anyways. It gives me no faith that your management team will listen to any of our feedback going forward. I'm sure you'll try to throw us a bone to try to undo some of the bad publicity surrounding the game right now and to try to lure back some of the many people who have cancelled their accounts, but the team has made it obvious what direction this game is headed.

Murryha

08-25-2010, 11:27 AM

Feedback:Positive:For EQ2X it was an exceptional LUFor RMT it was an exceptional LUFor trial players it was an exceptional LUFor crafters (and I am a crafter) tradeskill quests in lower level zones to sort of continue to enhance the tradeskill part of EQ2 (Way to go Domino!).Meh:UI - There are much better UI options available from folks offering items repeatedly requested by players for some time (click-to-cure - My Fury thanks you DrumsUI and Profit and Fetish! AND no SC button on the XP bar! AND I can resize things to actually fit on my screen!), etc. I did look at it, really I did. I don't have a clue who you polled for changes like this, but no one asked me.Spell affects - Good for low end machines. Period. Not game breaking for me personally one way or the other.Color - Red is not my favorite color. Custom UI helps me avoid it pretty much, so I can live with it. But why red? It is a very aggressive color.Negative:For Live Servers it just sucked. Period.Launching the worst LU (lack of content, lack of bug fixes, lack of addressing the concerns of those on test and in game) I can recall just after the close of being able to cancel Fan Faire purchases. Bad form..really. You knew you were launching this. Shame on you.Managing to ignore feedback from test and your Live forums as well as those present at Fan Faire. Shame on you.Releasing "new content" in the form of quest rewards tacked on to non-repeatable quest lines so that players who have completed these quest lines are not able to get the items. Lazy, Devs...very lazy. And for the record - this IS NOT new content. Shame on you.Since the Update:My journal no longer sorts by zone properly (current zone is no longer put on the top of the list)My bank bags don't stay where I put them.I hate how the character screen pops on top of the banker/merchant everytime I hail them. It does not stay placed when I move it once I log out.We need a way to remove the day/night symbol from the mini-map (if it is there somewhere, I haven't found it yet).I am a player since launch and am totally and completely underwhelmed. So much so that for the first time I didn't even bother to post the LU update notes on our Guild forums. It just was not worth the 2 minutes it would have taken to do that.There really was nothing to be seen for someone who has played for over a year.My 2cGood news SOE! You have the next LU to prove you can do this right..with less SC/RMT focus (ya, right), more content for ALL (we can hope) and bug fixes (please, please, please!).

Nakash

08-25-2010, 11:43 AM

First of all, i know there are people at SOE that are still in love with EQ2 and the work they do.All over all EQ2 is a great game and it unites so many playstyles and wishes that the people who worked on it, and still do it, can be proud of what they have created over the years.There have come a lot of people to the team over the years and all of them brought their part of the puzzle to the game.But the things that happen now are different to that.The strategy that the new captain on the ship is following is very concerning.The white wale that he is hunting is the purse of the community.I don't fear getting hunted, but i feel sad for the crew and the ship.I would enjoy it could end cinemastic dramatical with you and me sinking to the deep of the sea Mr. Ahab... for the good of the game. But i know your "fishing company" would send another captain.So we will swim as long as we can and will be on guard, but if we arent given enough space and will be outnumbered and harpooned by RMT too much, we will disapear and suddenly seen no more.

DuneWarrior

08-25-2010, 12:00 PM

<cite>Azzaroth@Valor wrote:</cite><blockquote>First of all, i know there are people at SOE that are still in love with EQ2 and the work they do.All over all EQ2 is a great game and it unites so many playstyles and wishes that the people who worked on it, and still do it, can be proud of what they have created over the years.There have come a lot of people to the team over the years and all of them brought their part of the puzzle to the game.But the things that happen now are different to that.The strategy that the new captain on the ship is following is very concerning.The white wale that he is hunting is the purse of the community.I don't fear getting hunted, but i feel sad for the crew and the ship.I would enjoy it could end cinemastic dramatical with you and me sinking to the deep of the sea Mr. Ahab... for the good of the game. But i know your "fishing company" would send another captain.So we will swim as long as we can and will be on guard, but if we arent given enough space and will be outnumbered and harpooned by RMT too much, we will disapear and suddenly seen no more.</blockquote>your my new hero! Well said!

Terron

08-25-2010, 12:01 PM

<cite>Shill@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>I too, think it is gross to remove crit heals on fighters when simply some nerfs of their heals would solve the problem without fundamentally changing the purpose of crit (I guess disabling crit was just easier).</blockquote>That would not have solved the problem.Some fighters have more of their defensive abilities based on heals than others. Heals were improved by things like crit chance and crit bonus so got better with better equipment. The defensive special abilites of those fighters with no significant heals (guards) are not improved by equipment. So how do you balance them? Do you assume a particular level of equipment and let them be unbalanced at other levels. Or do you stop equipment having such a big effect - the chosen solution.

Fudged

08-25-2010, 12:08 PM

please can we have the option to atleast remove the SC button? I like that we have buttons on the hotbar (although I don't actually want them there personally) but the SC button can be easily found by hitting the EQ2 button.I guess the next step is to add another button the majority of us don't want, a nice big shiny LoN button, right smack bang in the middle of the EXP bar... Oh poo I've just given them an idea. I want cash if it gets made!

Terron

08-25-2010, 12:29 PM

<cite>Fudged@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>please can we have the option to atleast remove the SC button?</blockquote>It can be done - either use an alternative UI, or make the entire window transparent.

Prrasha

08-25-2010, 12:57 PM

<cite>Terron@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shill@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>I too, think it is gross to remove crit heals on fighters when simply some nerfs of their heals would solve the problem without fundamentally changing the purpose of crit (I guess disabling crit was just easier).</blockquote>That would not have solved the problem.Some fighters have more of their defensive abilities based on heals than others. Heals were improved by things like crit chance and crit bonus so got better with better equipment. The defensive special abilites of those fighters with no significant heals (guards) are not improved by equipment. So how do you balance them? Do you assume a particular level of equipment and let them be unbalanced at other levels. Or do you stop equipment having such a big effect - the chosen solution.</blockquote>The defensive abilities not improved by equipment scale in other ways.Use a stoneskin/auto-block/auto-parry effect against a level 90 solo mob. How much damage is prevented?Use a stoneskin/auto-block/auto-parry effect against a level 98 raid mob. How much damage is prevented?Would you say the difference in those two numbers might represent "scaling"?Now do the same for a paladin heal, scaled for solo gear and buffs (around 30% potency) and then scaled for raid gear and buffs (ask a raiding paladin how high they can get in their defensive gear).Now divide the "damage prevented in raid" numbers by the "damage prevented solo" numbers for both the guardian and the paladin, to get a scaling factor.Who has the scaling problem, again?Give the paladin back full critability on heals, so they multiply by crit bonus as well.And divide the "damage prevented in raid" numbers by the "damage prevented solo" numbers for both the guardian and the paladin, to get a scaling factor.I bet the guardian still wins the scaling game, though it might be closer.

erk48188

08-25-2010, 01:05 PM

<cite>Frenzywolf@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Elusion@Nektulos wrote:</cite>Smokejumper is not posting on Legacy forums, as I have a feeling he has no clue how to handle us but he can rock and roll with RMT/FTP because that is where is expertise is. He most likely doesn't know how to deal with P2Pers just the formentioned. Sad really because this game use to be great and now it is slowly sinking in the muck. I get a feeling Smokejumper has no interest in those that P2P and would just love to see us dwindle and die.</blockquote>while SJ posting here would show that he feels some responsibility for the LIVE community...i don't believe a single word he says. i don't care for his deceitfulness, nor for his condescending ways:<ul><li>his initial BS about whether f2p would be coming</li><li>his "i never said we would bring rmt mounts to live"</li><li>his snotty "it mystifies me..." comment. that wasn't asking why it bothered us, it said he thought it was stupid that it bothered us.</li></ul>rothgar, if you are bringing this information back to your team, would you ask the powers that be what they think it says that much of the existing remaining PAYING customers can't believe what the senior producer has to say?

Stacatto

08-25-2010, 02:18 PM

<cite>Antigua@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Stacatto wrote:</cite><blockquote>AB is a totally different EQII experience. I have to say they made DW and Neriak so nice. It is really an improvement from what I saw in terms of a new player/character from what was and used to be. The server is so heavily populated to that you don't realize how much player base you losing splitting the factions into two separate teams. DW had 50 people in it all day and night. We popped in and out of other places and saw about the same thing. Not to mention people putting together groups and raid all evening during the peak hours. I was extremely impressed. I think it became more evident that a healthy server and good people go a long way. I missed the PvP aspect but, to be honest, Nagafen really doesn't have on going open PvP anymore. WF are a waste of time (which is a shame) and I can still play BG's on AB. I regards to the UI which initially left a bad taste in my mouth, really isn't that bad. The EXP bar isn't my taste but with the condition the community/server is in, it becomes a moot point. Animations, etc. really mean nothing either. The help features that come up now are nicely done and would be very beneficial to a new player.So, I guess I found that the problem with EQII is the fact every server isn't has healthy as AB. Nagafen was and is somewhat still great. I have a lot of friends there but it doesn't have the tier to tier population to support its purpose. When you pull it all together, EQII is a very solid PvE game and the BG's fill my PvP wants and needs.EQII made a lot of strides with this update if they are looking to gain new subs. If people would give it a chance i'm sure they would be very please with the end product. I have my complaints but if you pick a healthy server, they will be insignificant due the good that is present.If you are curious about EQII or disgruntle in any way, I suggest giving this a try. I think you will be pleasantly surprised. </blockquote>Dude, you're missing the point. We're not upset because our server(s) has a low population. If we're playing on a low-pop server and refuse to move, that's our call.We're [Removed for Content] because we have been lied to, ignored, and treated like tourists on a Tijuana street corner (and the guys following us around, loudly trying to sell us their sisters for 5 bucks even have the gall to act like *they're* doing *us* a favor.) We're [Removed for Content] because they've diminished our control of our own [Removed for Content] UI, because they've taken from us to give to the F2P players, and we're [Removed for Content] because they don't even have the stones to say "We did this, we aren't changing it, like it or leave."And to everyone saying "The developers are just doing their job:" So what? How does that absolve them? I worked for a crappy company that ripped off customers once - and I had the integrity to say "screw this" and quit.</blockquote>So it is a bad business model to have 56 updates benefit your current players and then spend development time for ONE update to grow your game and bring in new subs?Believe me, I was upset too until I sat in one our own business meetings this week and this actually became a conversation piece afterwards. It wasn't until I rolled a new character until I see what was truly being accomplished here.As I said in other posts, they missed the boat on integrating their PR group in the process because no one in their right mind would have released something so one sided, especially in this business unless they just ignored all previous hindsight they had gained throughout years of MMO experience. They should have waited to throw in some bones for us old guys too BUT, since they didn't you have to judge it for what it is.... This is merely a way to push new blood into the game and essentially make money. They're a business and they have put in update after update based on our feedback. Being a PvP player for years it brings me back to all the PvP changes, going from Kylong, to BG's, and now to BG's and WF's. Not to mention GU 58 going to focus on a lot of corrections to all of the aforementioned PvP changes. Yeah, we didn't get what we wanted this time and they changed stuff they impacts us but it is your game. You are paying for the right to play their game. However, if they want to practice poor customer relations, then they'll reap the consequences by losing money. One thing I learned in sitting down and talking to a few SoE guys last week was because we pay, they don't owe us anything except giving us what we pay for and that is the right to log on. Everything else we get at our own choice and discretion.I'm not trying to ride the Sony wagon because, as I said, I don't like some of it and I said things, that I feel, look foolish now. If we want them to listen and to understand the wrongs and rights, the losses and successes of what they are doing, we need to have a valid arguement and claim.All i'm saying is Sony did make the mistake in terms of how they packaged and delivered this update. However, they did not cheat me and I can't make the accusation that i'm not getting what I paid for... IF I can log on, that's what i'm paying for.... if I feel otherwise, I should cancel my subscription.

Pervis

08-25-2010, 02:27 PM

<cite>Stacatto wrote:</cite><blockquote>So it is a bad business model to have 56 updates benefit your current players and then spend development time for ONE update to grow your game and bring in new subs?</blockquote>Yes it is.In those previous 56 updates, there have been many things for new players. Things that are better than what was done this update. Darklight Wood and Neriak come to mind, as tehy were content added in a game update.What makes it bad business is that they have tens, perhaps even hundreds of thousands of players subscribed already, but bored. Not only are they bored, but they are bored and looking at other games. Games that are due to come out soon, games that are about to start sending out beta invitations, games that have staff that used to work on this game. Even more to the point, games that do not have a marketplace.With so many people being bored of this game, and with no new content, we have had a LOT of time to look at other games, time that SOE should have kept us entertained instead.

Rothgar

08-25-2010, 02:42 PM

Just to comment on a few things I've read since my last post.Several of you are saying we completely ignored the feedback on Test server and that couldn't be further from the truth. If you read through this thread, you'll see several things that were modified directly based on your feedback. When it comes to the other complaints, like the XP bar, I gave an explanation that it was not within our control to make those changes.<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=483438" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=483438</a>You have the option to modify your UI or load any of the existing mods out there to custom tailor your experience if there are things about the default that you don't like.As far as the spell effects go, we aren't going to maintain two different sets of spell effects from here until the end of time. But that doesn't mean we aren't willing to make changes to the new system. So I'd recommend posting in a new thread about your specific issues with spell effects. Be sure you mention the class and spell that you have an issue with, and why. Will we change something that only 1 person is upset about? Probably not. But if we see that an issue is affecting many people, we will certainly look closely at a solution.

Pervis

08-25-2010, 02:49 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>When it comes to the other complaints, like the XP bar, I gave an explanation that it was not within our control to make those changes.</blockquote>It was within "someones" control, and I would be fairly willing to bet that the someone that had that control works at SOE.Any SOE employee with that kind of control over this game should be reading these forums. If they are not, the game could well turn in to a mess, with thousands of unhappy players, dozens of complaint threads, the need to bring in outside moderation and people linking websites for other games openly in the forums.Oh wait...

Kain-UK

08-25-2010, 03:01 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just to comment on a few things I've read since my last post.Several of you are saying we completely ignored the feedback on Test server and that couldn't be further from the truth. If you read through this thread, you'll see several things that were modified directly based on your feedback. When it comes to the other complaints, like the XP bar, I gave an explanation that it was not within our control to make those changes.<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=483438" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=483438</a>You have the option to modify your UI or load any of the existing mods out there to custom tailor your experience if there are things about the default that you don't like.As far as the spell effects go, we aren't going to maintain two different sets of spell effects from here until the end of time. But that doesn't mean we aren't willing to make changes to the new system. So I'd recommend posting in a new thread about your specific issues with spell effects. Be sure you mention the class and spell that you have an issue with, and why. Will we change something that only 1 person is upset about? Probably not. But if we see that an issue is affecting many people, we will certainly look closely at a solution.</blockquote>I think a lot of us do understand that the dev's have their hands tied on certain parts of this GU.In which case, the person you guys answer to and has told you that certain elements cannot be changed needs to get their behind on these forums and talk to the unhappy customers they've got.

Nuhus

08-25-2010, 03:03 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just to comment on a few things I've read since my last post.Several of you are saying we completely ignored the feedback on Test server and that couldn't be further from the truth. If you read through this thread, you'll see several things that were modified directly based on your feedback. When it comes to the other complaints, like the XP bar, I gave an explanation that it was not within our control to make those changes.<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=483438" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=483438</a>You have the option to modify your UI or load any of the existing mods out there to custom tailor your experience if there are things about the default that you don't like.As far as the spell effects go, we aren't going to maintain two different sets of spell effects from here until the end of time. But that doesn't mean we aren't willing to make changes to the new system. So I'd recommend posting in a new thread about your specific issues with spell effects. Be sure you mention the class and spell that you have an issue with, and why. Will we change something that only 1 person is upset about? Probably not. But if we see that an issue is affecting many people, we will certainly look closely at a solution.</blockquote>You and Domino are the best devs EQ2 has. It's so much more than just what you pointed out. We know SC gets priority. It was very crappy for SC to take away an in game item and put it on station cash. This update wasn't for us, it was for EQ2x. I'm not interested in playing anymore. SF was horrible and mind numbingly repetative for a lot of us. Velious will likely be horrible as well. Quality of the game has been going down hill, EQ2x came at a time that isn't good. Instead of worrying about the core game, it's EQ2x.At this point for me, I don't see it as a game that fits me anymore

Leafle

08-25-2010, 03:11 PM

There's a fairly large (okay, huge) disconnect between the folks making the decisions about the game and the folks paying to play the game, and I can't see that as being a good thing.The lack of posts by the folks who DO make the decisions is telling. "Perception is reality" as they say in customer service, and a well managed company will do whatever it can to manage that perception. Notice I said a well managed company.

hoosierdaddy

08-25-2010, 03:27 PM

When Turbine re-released DDO as FTP it was only a year-and-a-half after the failure of their original subscription model.(To reiterate, they re-released the game, even going so far as to change its name.)Six years into EQ2 seems a little late to try to modify certain very fundamental aspects of the game.The great majority of subscribers at the launch of this game were former players of some incarnation of EQ, whether it be EQLive, EQOA, or whatever.Since 1997, these players have grown accustomed to a specific subscription model that is now being completely overhauled.While showing immediate results in the way of profits, I'm guessing this influx of players accompanying the release of EQ2X will gradually decline, especially based on feedback I've been reading from the beta boards.So my question is: "Why wouldn't SOE have waited until EQ3 (or EQ Next or w/e) to implement this subscription model?"It seems that veteran players have been forced into the role of being the unfortunate lab rats in SOE's experiment of whether or not a FTP/RMT model will work in EQ.It is insulting for longtime players to be made to feel as though they are part of an ongoing focus group for a product that is still in pre-production, and may in all likelihood fail as a result of SOE's continued disingenuous to its long-time subscribers.

Bremer

08-25-2010, 03:37 PM

I really don't like that with the GU the option to disable the welcome screen on start up was removed to promote station cash. Worked well. I've killed the window and hope that somebody comes with a solution to make the window still viewable. Until then I can live without ever seeing it again. This move really helped station cash.

EQPrime

08-25-2010, 03:38 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just to comment on a few things I've read since my last post.Several of you are saying we completely ignored the feedback on Test server and that couldn't be further from the truth. If you read through this thread, you'll see several things that were modified directly based on your feedback. When it comes to the other complaints, like the XP bar, I gave an explanation that it was not within our control to make those changes.<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=483438" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=483438</a></blockquote>First, you ignored that people didn't want the hotkeys to change in what is a 6 year old game and basically made us manually map the keys back to what they should be, rather than doing what you should have done and making a EQ2 hotkey scheme (as default in live) and a WoW hotkey scheme (as default in eq2smedbucks) which you could swap via a dropdown in options. You hacked in a blue scheme to please some of the people but it was poorly implemented and requires a bunch of manual work for people using any kind of UI mod. The intent was good; the execution was poorly done. *edit: yes I know you did what you could in the time you had, it just came off as very unpolished.You made the graphics worse. My icons and other graphics (especially the plat, gold, silver, copper icons) look much more low-res and grainy than they did before.Your producer's excuse for diverting all new subs to his new F2P servers was because he respected that we do not want stat equipment on the marketplace, yet one of the first things he does is to make several guild status mounts available on the marketplace, and to top it off he removed them from being purchasable with guild status and plat! After pages of complaints he finally decided to change things back after wondering why we were complaining.As for the SC button as well as SC nonsense included in every merchant window, it may have been out of your (singular) control, but I'm sure someone at your company had some say in it going in there. You (singular) may not have ignored the complaints but you (as a company) certainly did.You removed the command to block the welcome screen, plus you went ahead and made it way more obnoxious while still leaving it with outdated TSO information no it. Still no reponse on this one about removing the ability to block this via the ini file.I do agree that you worked with people to try to resolve issues with the UI, however your management team forced you to ignore the biggest complaints. The UI portion was really the only feedback anyone addressed. Hemophobe gave a very vague post about reverting some spell animations a week before the update went in but all of my 'class defining' spell animations now just make me glow yellow like everything else.<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>As far as the spell effects go, we aren't going to maintain two different sets of spell effects from here until the end of time. But that doesn't mean we aren't willing to make changes to the new system. So I'd recommend posting in a new thread about your specific issues with spell effects. Be sure you mention the class and spell that you have an issue with, and why. Will we change something that only 1 person is upset about? Probably not. But if we see that an issue is affecting many people, we will certainly look closely at a solution.</blockquote>You mean like the post in this very forum that is 19 pages long and is seemingly ignored by the development team? The team should have posted polls in the class forums asking which effects the players really liked rather than implement these mostly worse spell effects and then ask us which ones to fix after the fact. I wasn't too keen on some of the spell naming conventions decided the same way, but at least it was what the community wanted and it wasn't forced on us by someone who probably never even played the class.The spell animations weren't broken and there was certainly no need to make them worse. Some of the new animations are pretty good. Some are not. The team could have worked with the community to get feedback on what people wanted and engaged the community rather than alienate many of the players. The spell animation revamp could have a positive for the majority of the players, but the way it was done and forced on us gave everyone a bad impression.Despite all the things that made the game worse with GU57 I still think the biggest insult to us was not including any new content at all. That was my biggest complaint and it was certainly ignored.

DuneWarrior

08-25-2010, 03:42 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>As far as the spell effects go, we aren't going to maintain two different sets of spell effects from here until the end of time. But that doesn't mean we aren't willing to make changes to the new system. So I'd recommend posting in a new thread about your specific issues with spell effects. Be sure you mention the class and spell that you have an issue with, and why. Will we change something that only 1 person is upset about? Probably not. But if we see that an issue is affecting many people, we will certainly look closely at a solution.</blockquote>Let me see... your rolling back without notifying which changes are beign rolled back, your 'fixing spells' without letting us know which ones are being touched... and now you want us all to go test them out again ? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ill give you 10 out of 10 for perceived effort but minus several millions for missing the reality check..First of all, how much maintance is there to the old spell effects PRIOR to this? If we skip the whole imago doing shaders 3.0 - which are half done and look and act erratic still but is now not important any more - or imago doing shadows on the gpu - which are half done and look and act erratic still but is now not important any more - WHICH other things have been done where you guys have had to maintain spell effects? (Love you Imago, and the work you do, and i know the other things are important now is not set by you!!)Its like ... i put my car in for an oil change and this is the conversation when i pick it up:Cardude : So ... while it was in we changed the interior, fixed the lighting, altered your horn, modified the colour scheme, applied different brakes and wheels, all in order to make it more economical!! Arent you happy? ... we still got your old stuff out back, and if you dont like it we might give some of it back to you, but only if the other car owners all feel the same you do... Oh and yeah im sorrry, no refund its company policy that this model car now drives on Diesel as well so .. dont worry bout it you V8 is now a diesel engine with no turbo .. its still <insert brand name> though!!!Me... [Removed for Content]?

isest

08-25-2010, 03:46 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just to comment on a few things I've read since my last post.Several of you are saying we completely ignored the feedback on Test server and that couldn't be further from the truth. If you read through this thread, you'll see several things that were modified directly based on your feedback. When it comes to the other complaints, like the XP bar, I gave an explanation that it was not within our control to make those changes.<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=483438" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=483438</a>You have the option to modify your UI or load any of the existing mods out there to custom tailor your experience if there are things about the default that you don't like.As far as the spell effects go, we aren't going to maintain two different sets of spell effects from here until the end of time. But that doesn't mean we aren't willing to make changes to the new system. So I'd recommend posting in a new thread about your specific issues with spell effects. Be sure you mention the class and spell that you have an issue with, and why. Will we change something that only 1 person is upset about? Probably not. But if we see that an issue is affecting many people, we will certainly look closely at a solution.</blockquote>Well I got to hand it to you, at least your trying to talk to us. It is too bad your counterparts have totally ignored us. For example the spell effects. We all waited till yesterday waiting for them, and we really did not get anything.Could you please ask your fellow devs and boss to come and talk to us about spell animations, and what is happening with them. I done what you asked and created a new post over in general about spell effects however I dont expect much to happen with it. 21 pages and more of the current disscussion about spell effects was not enough?

Théodwyn

08-25-2010, 03:49 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>As far as the spell effects go, we aren't going to maintain two different sets of spell effects from here until the end of time. But that doesn't mean we aren't willing to make changes to the new system. So I'd recommend posting in a new thread about your specific issues with spell effects. Be sure you mention the class and spell that you have an issue with, and why. Will we change something that only 1 person is upset about? Probably not. But if we see that an issue is affecting many people, we will certainly look closely at a solution.</blockquote>First of all, thank you Rothgar for getting involved.My request, with regard to spell effects, is to re-do the execution of these changes. Rather than run on the current spell effects and rollback spell by spell piecemeal, roll them all back and implement the new ones incrementally.I am very very interested in restoring the realism of the game experience. It was one of the things that I've always been proudest of in EQ2. Even at the cost of playing on systems that are only SLI or CrossFireX.So I am asking you, please do maintain two different sets of spell effects. One for High Quality and up. One for Balanced and down.Please do bring that feedback to your meetings.Cheers,- alvinc

Aganon

08-25-2010, 03:59 PM

Rothgar,I ask that you read this entire post and understand that I am trying to explain the frustration level of your customers.You keep saying things like "it was not within our control" and that implies that either 1) someone outside the EQ2 department is designing the game now or 2) you simply want to pass the blame to phantom people hoping that your customers will stop wasting time complaining to you or feel some level of sympathy for you. Announcing dramatic changes and trying to convince players the changes are necessary and when failing to do so, telling players you had no choice does not equate to "listening to your customers." I am really not being funny or sarcastic when I say you would have been a lot better off by simply saying, "The changes are happening and they will not be changed so don't waste your time complaining about it. If you don't like it, leave!"I have been with EQ2 since launch and was with EQ1 since its beta. I had several accounts with EQ1 and have four EQ2 accounts for family and friends. My primary EQ2 account has been a Station Access account ever since you offered that option. The reason I state this is simply to show that I have been a loyal fan and customer of your company since 1999. I have watched friend after friend leave EQ1 and EQ2 for games like Dark Age of Camelot, Asheron's Call, World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online and many other competing games. There are many of us who have stayed loyal to EverQuest despite the constant pull we feel from other friends and former guildmates to leave.I think what you (or the imaginary puppeteers above you) fail to understand is that by dictating everything without regard to your paying customers is something that has been done in countless other games including some of SOE's like SWG and each time, the companies have regretted it later. Unfortunately, by then it was too late to save those games.Believe me, I understand what SOE is doing with EQ2X and why they are doing it with regards to F2P. You can generate the same level of revenue from a smaller player base that includes F2P and RMT than you can from a much larger subscription-only player base. The only game not likely to rush to F2P is World of Warcraft but I have a feeling that will happen in time after they watch other major companies like Turbine and SOE dive headfirst into that market.This inevitable change was likely expedited due to Turbine's LoTRO's big announcement and I am sure SOE wanted to beat them to the punch by getting EQ2X online before them just to prevent any on-the-fence EQ2 players from leaving for LoTRO. That makes sense too because if people left for LoTRO or any other F2P and invested any money in those games, they would be less likely to stay or come back to EQ2X. What you have failed to understand though is that your treatment and disregard for your loyal and long time subscribers was completely unnecessary and will likely create a level of mistrust in your company moving forward. After what SOE did to SWG with NGE and now with EQ2 (not EQ2X, just EQ2 Live), my loyalty and trust in SOE is really low now and I doubt I will likely try any other SOE games in the near future even though I had been looking forward to DC Universe. I am sure other players feel the same way.You could have gained a lot of player trust and respect by listening rather than dictating to your customers and by being more cooperative. For example, you could have easily created an Opt-Out setting in the Game Options area that would hide all SC references in game including on the exp bar. Think about that for a moment .. Yes, I am sure a large number of people would have disabled it initially, but in time, most of those same players would have enabled it again because of items they see others with or you could have done promotional things like give everyone 1000 station cash for Christmas. They would have had to turn SC features back on and eventually they would give in to the idea but on their terms. You would have had the respect of the players because you gave them control over that aspect of their game playing experience. Ultimately, they would have come over to SC but in a much happier state of mind and you and SOE would have come out of it with both what they wanted and the respect of the players.In any case, the damage is done now. I have friends that left the game and I have not been playing since GU57 came out outside of the daily solo mark quest and now I haven't even done that in several days. For the first time since 1999, EverQuest seems to have lost its appeal to me and several other people I know. By the responses here, I wouldn't be surprised if others are feeling the same way. I am sure there are some who will be loyal to the end and that is great for them.Rothgar, you are a nice guy and have done a great job at interacting with the players in the past and I wish all of the player frustration was not directed primarily at you. I guess in some way, people are hoping that if there are hidden people above you making decisions about EQ2 that you will pass on that frustration in hopes it will make them realize that all customers matter, not just the future ones.One thing you could do though and I am very sure the other players would love you for it is to answer the simple question .. WHO is the one making the decisions? ... and be specific, not vague ...-Aganon

Vortexelemental

08-25-2010, 04:07 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just to comment on a few things I've read since my last post.Several of you are saying we completely ignored the feedback on Test server and that couldn't be further from the truth. If you read through this thread, you'll see several things that were modified directly based on your feedback. When it comes to the other complaints, like the XP bar, I gave an explanation that it was not within our control to make those changes.<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=483438" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=483438</a>You have the option to modify your UI or load any of the existing mods out there to custom tailor your experience if there are things about the default that you don't like.As far as the spell effects go, we aren't going to maintain two different sets of spell effects from here until the end of time. But that doesn't mean we aren't willing to make changes to the new system. So I'd recommend posting in a new thread about your specific issues with spell effects. Be sure you mention the class and spell that you have an issue with, and why. Will we change something that only 1 person is upset about? Probably not. But if we see that an issue is affecting many people, we will certainly look closely at a solution.</blockquote>Rothgar, You're an awesome guy and everything, but it's not about what we got. It's what we didn't get.I don't think it's easy for anyone at this point to take this game seriously when for a whole year we are told Station Cash won't mean anything in the long run. Then we have a free to play server.We will get longer apart and bigger updates every 3 months.Station Cash won't get content designed solely for it.We just waited 3 months to get content solely designed for the Station Cash F2P server.Content not many people wanted, and none of the content people were hoping for.Some things were nice, we've needed a newbie tutorial window for 4 years for example.It's good you guys see it as a mistake now...but there's only so many times a consumer will forgive mistakes.I honestly feel like I'm in a large crowd where everyone is shouting what they want, a lot of people are shouting the same things, some are shouting random things, and some are content waiting to hear from you.That's when you announce something different from everything everyone in the crowd is saying, and some people simply just walk away.You're the speaker here. You need to keep us interested and entertain us. This...isn't.

Draylore

08-25-2010, 04:21 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just to comment on a few things I've read since my last post.Several of you are saying we completely ignored the feedback on Test server and that couldn't be further from the truth. If you read through this thread, you'll see several things that were modified directly based on your feedback. When it comes to the other complaints, like the XP bar, I gave an explanation that it was not within our control to make those changes.<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=483438" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=483438</a>You have the option to modify your UI or load any of the existing mods out there to custom tailor your experience if there are things about the default that you don't like.As far as the spell effects go, we aren't going to maintain two different sets of spell effects from here until the end of time. But that doesn't mean we aren't willing to make changes to the new system. So I'd recommend posting in a new thread about your specific issues with spell effects. Be sure you mention the class and spell that you have an issue with, and why. Will we change something that only 1 person is upset about? Probably not. But if we see that an issue is affecting many people, we will certainly look closely at a solution.</blockquote>Trying to pass the blame to someone or some group of people that remain unknown is getting old.Who's brilliant idea was it to remap hot-keys for game that 6+ years old? And why? I dont recall anyone complaining that Z wasnt Crouch?Who decided that in 2010 that reducing the quality of UI and resolution of icons and buttons was the thing to do?And about those spell effects.......who decided they needed to be touched in the first place.......and then instead of making them modern and cool they look like something from 10 years ago?You ....SOE...stated that you wanted to keep EQ2 live and the BS that is EQ2x seperate.......then why are we on the EQ2 live servers having SC crap forced on us...the insulting SC button, on the vendors, on the Welcome/Billboard screen that was ironically not allowed to be turned off anymore? Whoever this idiot is that 'forcing' you to implement all this crap needs to be fired.........he/she/it/whatever is throwing this game in the gutter.GU57 was an insult and your attempting to downplay it with BS talk is equally as insulting.

snowli

08-25-2010, 04:45 PM

You took the last X months subs, stopped giving subscribers what they wanted in return i.e. useful stuff in exchange for our money, and [Removed for Content] all the money away building the RMT cesspool of your dreams.It's pretty simple, we've paid in the past for your service, because you used to keep providing new content, balances, fixes and development with our subscriptions - you've broken your end of the deal.What's worse is the management directive to boost RMT at the expense of your existing customers is transparently obvious - and no action (action, material changes, not damage control posts with nothing to back them up) is being taken to demonstrate your subscriberbase still matters to you. Yet.We're left with the belief either your management are morons, or deliberately selfdestructive, slicing the goose open, in the hope that endless gold will come tumbling out. It was perfectly possible to do this RMT experiment in an integrated fashion, enlisting the co-operation of your current customers, over a little longer time frame without so badly damaging your subscriberbase's faith in you, but your management completely and totally failed to engage and interact with your current customers and show any flexibility whatsoever, so yes, I call them morons. Arrogant morons too, because the current situation was predicted way in advance by everyone with two brain cells to rub together to make a fire, and a million better alternatives were offered, and completely and totally ignored.

Xill

08-25-2010, 04:53 PM

Kind of amazing to see so many people agree on a topic LOL. Not often you see all of these people saying basically the same thing and not even bickering between each other about it = POh and btw, cancelled sub here, though I am lurking the forums hoping for a revert... I know it wont happen but let me dream! I love this game and I am very sad to see it turned into what its become... /sigh I am fairly certain I know who is responsible for most of this... as I am sure most of you do too. Though I dont ever expect to see him post again hahaha

Kordran

08-25-2010, 05:47 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>When it comes to the other complaints, like the XP bar, I gave an explanation that it was not within our control to make those changes.</blockquote>I guess the context of that statement really depends on who the "our" is, but I find it somewhat humorous that there's almost this implication that the changes were an act of God, beyond the control of mere mortals. There's an xkcd cartoon in there somewhere, I can feel it.In any case, personally I like the majority of the UI changes and the new spell effects for my character (and thanks again to the folks involved with getting that ward animation fixed quickly). The SC button really doesn't bother me, but I do think you guys went a bit over the top with the "welcome" window, and requiring people to hack the XML to disable it. Requiring folks to manually create/edit the eq2.ini file was one thing, and although not particularly user-friendly, it was workable. Requiring folks to create a custom UI and edit XML files to stop it from displaying, not so cool.

Zehl_Ice-Fire

08-25-2010, 06:06 PM

I can't believe this didn't get pointed out on test... Sorry I would do test but I can hardly fit in some live playtime.The character window used to have a little space to auto add things to your bags so you didn't have to figure out which has your arrows, potions etc. I want it back please as do quite a few of my friends who also were like [Removed for Content] happened to it?Thanks for listening.

Xill

08-25-2010, 06:24 PM

<cite>Zehl_Ice-Fire wrote:</cite><blockquote>I can't believe this didn't get pointed out on test... Sorry I would do test but I can hardly fit in some live playtime.The character window used to have a little space to auto add things to your bags so you didn't have to figure out which has your arrows, potions etc. I want it back please as do quite a few of my friends who also were like [Removed for Content] happened to it?Thanks for listening.</blockquote>Haha, this got mentioned as one of the first few posts. And then had a thread created for it in the "Gameplay" forum. Not sure if it was resolved or not, might already be in the works.

Ulrazaj

08-25-2010, 06:26 PM

<cite>Zehl_Ice-Fire wrote:</cite><blockquote>I can't believe this didn't get pointed out on test... Sorry I would do test but I can hardly fit in some live playtime.The character window used to have a little space to auto add things to your bags so you didn't have to figure out which has your arrows, potions etc. I want it back please as do quite a few of my friends who also were like [Removed for Content] happened to it?Thanks for listening.</blockquote>Rothgar said in the test UI feedback thread:I was wondering if anyone would miss this. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> It came down to the fact that we were trying to keep this window as small as possible and were looking for things to remove. The XP bars were a little redundant, we felt the huge health bars at the top of the window didn't have much use since your player window was always on the screen, and the inventory drop box felt like something that didn't get a ton of use. If we were to bring it back it probably would mean making the entire window larger which I'd like to avoid.Another option would be to make it so that if you dropped an item on the paperdoll that wasn't equippable, it put it in your inventory. Also, you should be able to drop the item right on the bag icon itself to have it put into inventory. We could possibly make it so that if the bag was full it just put it in the first available slot.

Culgar

08-25-2010, 06:26 PM

-Blue EFF'N NEVER stays after logging! NEVER!!-EQ2 button needs to be detachable along with everything else on the GIGANTIC "LOL CAN'T SEE SKY" Exp Bar-Make the UI look less like a Mechwarrior cockpit with useless buttons that we don't want. (I want my persona window I'll hit P, I don't need a 3 inch wide button that's spotwelded onto my exp bar!!-Stop making it sound like you listened to anything in test. "Yup EXP bars huge Trololololololo~ can't fix it" no.-call me crazy but the UI downgrade seems a LIIIITTLE bit like a major push for Marketplace. (which you wouldn't need if WoW didn't exist so let's work on that instead?

Ulrazaj

08-25-2010, 06:34 PM

Truth is, I've gone an read the entire GU57 UI Test Feedback thread, took quite a long while, as well having been keeping up to date on this thread. The SC button on the XP bar and the SC on vendor windows are by far the most displeasing parts of this game update.The developers have said it's out of their control, so could we have whomever's control it IS in respond to the feedback you've been given please.

zorkan

08-25-2010, 06:57 PM

Didn't read the whole thread, so please excuse me if I repeat something that has been said before (which it probably has, but I'm adding my comment for emphasize):Is it just me or is this the first GU57 with absolutely ZERO new content for paying customers of SOE? I don't recall any other GU that really didn't add anything at all, ZERO.And I agree with others: The icons are outright ugly now and the spell animation look extremely unimpressive compared to the old version. A lot of visual appeal has been lost with the GU _without adding ONE bit of new content for your paying customers.Quite frankly, it feels like we are only here to give you our money without getting anything in return anymore, which is sad.

Ephigy

08-25-2010, 07:04 PM

Let them know with your wallet.Though at this point they don't seem to care much over the number of veterans who've cancelled, I just just choose to not fund this fail of a game anymore.

Jrral

08-25-2010, 07:08 PM

<cite>Arandar@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>I guess the context of that statement really depends on who the "our" is, but I find it somewhat humorous that there's almost this implication that the changes were an act of God, beyond the control of mere mortals. There's an xkcd cartoon in there somewhere, I can feel it.</blockquote>It may well be. Rothgar doesn't own SOE. Smedley's at the top, and he's the one who signs the paychecks. In turn there's likely executives above him who sign his paycheck. At my job I regularly get feature requirements down from On High (ie. the executive level) that're utter nonsense, and I can explain in detail why they're utter nonsense, but the people who want them don't want to hear that and it's very much "These will be implemented exactly the way we want, and if you won't do it your replacement will.". When you work for someone else, there's a point where you have to shrug and do it the way the boss wants (or hand in your resignation and go looking for a job elsewhere, but in this economy that's not an attractive option), because he's the boss and it's his company, not yours. I suspect Battlegrounds, a lot of aspects of the new UI, the graphics changes, a lot of things about EQ2X, all come under the heading of "mandate from On High".And yeah, it does gall me that at my job there's somewhere close to a quarter-million lines of code with my name on them that're sitting gathering dust because after it was all said and done it turned out us devs were right and the customers really didn't want those features after all.

Jrral

08-25-2010, 07:11 PM

<cite>Marvis@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>Is it just me or is this the first GU57 with absolutely ZERO new content for paying customers of SOE? I don't recall any other GU that really didn't add anything at all, ZERO.</blockquote>I don't think the first. And given what was advertised, and how short a time it's been since the last Stonebrunt Highlands questlines and New Halas came out, I wasn't expecting new content this update. This one was a mechanics and graphics update, not a content push, and sometimes you do need those.

Leafle

08-25-2010, 07:42 PM

<cite>Jrral@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Arandar@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>I guess the context of that statement really depends on who the "our" is, but I find it somewhat humorous that there's almost this implication that the changes were an act of God, beyond the control of mere mortals. There's an xkcd cartoon in there somewhere, I can feel it.</blockquote>It may well be. Rothgar doesn't own SOE. Smedley's at the top, and he's the one who signs the paychecks. In turn there's likely executives above him who sign his paycheck. At my job I regularly get feature requirements down from On High (ie. the executive level) that're utter nonsense, and I can explain in detail why they're utter nonsense, but the people who want them don't want to hear that and it's very much "These will be implemented exactly the way we want, and if you won't do it your replacement will.". When you work for someone else, there's a point where you have to shrug and do it the way the boss wants (or hand in your resignation and go looking for a job elsewhere, but in this economy that's not an attractive option), because he's the boss and it's his company, not yours. I suspect Battlegrounds, a lot of aspects of the new UI, the graphics changes, a lot of things about EQ2X, all come under the heading of "mandate from On High".And yeah, it does gall me that at my job there's somewhere close to a quarter-million lines of code with my name on them that're sitting gathering dust because after it was all said and done it turned out us devs were right and the customers really didn't want those features after all.</blockquote>I've turned in my resignation over not liking the direction a project was taking but that was a long time ago, and I agree with you that in this economic climate I'd probably say "You want me to make it suck in both red and blue? Ok..."So yeah, our real beef is with those higher up the food chain. Though I bet the level of caring (if there's caring anywhere) goes down as you move up.

kbear

08-25-2010, 08:06 PM

<table cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" width="100%"><form action="/eq2/posts/doModeration.m" accept-charset="UNKNOWN" enctype="application/x-www-form-urlencoded" method="post"><tbody><tr><td rowspan="2" align="left" valign="top"><div><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/user/profile.m?user_id=207565">SmokeJumper</a> <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/icons/soe.gif" border="0" /></div>Sr. Producer <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/avatar/EQ2/staff/avatar_developer.png" border="0" /> Joined: Aug 8, 2005Messages: 165Offline </td><td valign="top">We've been getting a lot of calls about the character slot change, so to try to let everyone know what we're doing all at once, here's an announcement about the subject.First of all, there were lots of accounts out there that had extra character slots beyond the limits of their current subscription.We made a recent change that fixed that issue and brought the limits back to where they were supposed to be.However, we did that change without prewarning you folks...which was an error on our part.So we're going to do a one-week rollback on that change to allow you to shuffle stuff around on your characters and ensure that the characters you want are left in your remaining slots before we reimplement the change.On Tuesday, August 24th, we'll roll back the change. At that time, you'll be able to access all your characters, regardless of our account slot limitations.For one week (7 days) you can freely exchange stuff back and forth between your characters.Then on Tuesday, August 31st, we'll reimplement the fix and accounts will be restricted to their proper number of character slots.BEFORE AUGUST 31st, just make sure that the last characters you log into the game are the ones that you want to keep. Then, when we reimplement the fix, you'll be left with your most recently-logged characters, and you'll be good to go.We apologize for the inconvience we created by not pre-announcing this change. But this should let you do all the shuffling you need to do before the fix goes back in.<div><a class="gensmall" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/report.m?post_id=5396434">Report this post to a moderator</a></div></td></tr></tbody></form></table>So what happened with this because it hasn't been done yet..hmmm?????

kbear

08-25-2010, 08:08 PM

<cite>kbear wrote:</cite><blockquote><table cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" width="100%"><form action="/eq2/posts/doModeration.m" accept-charset="UNKNOWN" enctype="application/x-www-form-urlencoded" method="post"><tbody><tr><td rowspan="2" align="left" valign="top"></td><td valign="top"><div><a class="gensmall" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/report.m?post_id=5396434"><div></div></a><a class="gensmall" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/report.m?post_id=5396434">We've been getting a lot of calls about the character slot change, so to try to let everyone know what we're doing all at once, here's an anno We've been getting a lot of calls about the character slot change, so to try to let everyone know what we're doing all at once, here's an announcement about the subject.First of all, there were lots of accounts out there that had extra character slots beyond the limits of their current subscription.We made a recent change that fixed that issue and brought the limits back to where they were supposed to be.However, we did that change without prewarning you folks...which was an error on our part.So we're going to do a one-week rollback on that change to allow you to shuffle stuff around on your characters and ensure that the characters you want are left in your remaining slots before we reimplement the change.On Tuesday, August 24th, we'll roll back the change. At that time, you'll be able to access all your characters, regardless of our account slot limitations.For one week (7 days) you can freely exchange stuff back and forth between your characters.Then on Tuesday, August 31st, we'll reimplement the fix and accounts will be restricted to their proper number of character slots.BEFORE AUGUST 31st, just make sure that the last characters you log into the game are the ones that you want to keep. Then, when we reimplement the fix, you'll be left with your most recently-logged characters, and you'll be good to go.We apologize for the inconvience we created by not pre-announcing this change. But this should let you do all the shuffling you need to do before the fix goes back in.uncement about the subject.</a></div><div><a></a></div></td></tr></tbody></form></table>So what happened with this because it hasn't been done yet..hmmm?????</blockquote>

Antigua

08-25-2010, 08:20 PM

<cite>Ulrazaj wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rothgar said in the test UI feedback thread:I was wondering if anyone would miss this. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> It came down to the fact that we were trying to keep this window as small as possible and were looking for things to remove.</blockquote>THAT is "as small as" you could keep the window? Jesus, I have to go clean coffee off my monitor now. How about you remove everything that used to be in the [Removed for Content] persona tab and put it back where it belongs?Oh, right. Because the players want that, and the players don't get what the players want - which is only fair, cause in five more days, Sony ain't getting what Sony wants from me anymore, either.

Nighrbringer

08-25-2010, 08:56 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just to comment on a few things I've read since my last post.Several of you are saying we completely ignored the feedback on Test server and that couldn't be further from the truth. If you read through this thread, you'll see several things that were modified directly based on your feedback. When it comes to the other complaints, like the XP bar, I gave an explanation that it was not within our control to make those changes.<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=483438" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=483438</a>You have the option to modify your UI or load any of the existing mods out there to custom tailor your experience if there are things about the default that you don't like.As far as the spell effects go, we aren't going to maintain two different sets of spell effects from here until the end of time. But that doesn't mean we aren't willing to make changes to the new system. So I'd recommend posting in a new thread about your specific issues with spell effects. Be sure you mention the class and spell that you have an issue with, and why. Will we change something that only 1 person is upset about? Probably not. But if we see that an issue is affecting many people, we will certainly look closely at a solution.<div></div></blockquote>The developers have made their decision on the subject, I have made mine.My account is already canceled.

Dreyco

08-25-2010, 11:01 PM

Rothgar:Regarding the UI. Can we make it so we can line it up with the left or right and snap it there? So the XP Bar is vertical instead of horizontal?Seems to fit better for Widescreens to me, but that's a personal preference.

sompet_eq2

08-26-2010, 03:41 AM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just to comment on a few things I've read since my last post.Several of you are saying we completely ignored the feedback on Test server and that couldn't be further from the truth. If you read through this thread, you'll see several things that were modified directly based on your feedback. When it comes to the other complaints, like the XP bar, I gave an explanation that it was not within our control to make those changes.<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=483438" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=483438</a>You have the option to modify your UI or load any of the existing mods out there to custom tailor your experience if there are things about the default that you don't like.As far as the spell effects go, we aren't going to maintain two different sets of spell effects from here until the end of time. But that doesn't mean we aren't willing to make changes to the new system. So I'd recommend posting in a new thread about your specific issues with spell effects. Be sure you mention the class and spell that you have an issue with, and why. Will we change something that only 1 person is upset about? Probably not. But if we see that an issue is affecting many people, we will certainly look closely at a solution.</blockquote>only 1 person is upset? really?

isest

08-26-2010, 08:30 AM

<cite>sompet_eq2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just to comment on a few things I've read since my last post.Several of you are saying we completely ignored the feedback on Test server and that couldn't be further from the truth. If you read through this thread, you'll see several things that were modified directly based on your feedback. When it comes to the other complaints, like the XP bar, I gave an explanation that it was not within our control to make those changes.<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=483438" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=483438</a>You have the option to modify your UI or load any of the existing mods out there to custom tailor your experience if there are things about the default that you don't like.As far as the spell effects go, we aren't going to maintain two different sets of spell effects from here until the end of time. But that doesn't mean we aren't willing to make changes to the new system. So I'd recommend posting in a new thread about your specific issues with spell effects. Be sure you mention the class and spell that you have an issue with, and why. Will we change something that only 1 person is upset about? Probably not. But if we see that an issue is affecting many people, we will certainly look closely at a solution.</blockquote>only 1 person is upset? really?</blockquote>I was like 20 pages worth in the original spell discussion was not enough, but hey I went ahead and made a new one. Had to put in in the general area as I don't have the authority to start a thread in the dev area. But yes I still have to ask 20 pages of feedback = 1 person, oh well I hope folks are posting on the new thread otherwise yes there done nothing else to see with spell effects despite how much feedback we gave them.The really sad comentary about the situation is as follows. We only have one dev talking to us. Upper management and the other devs just seam to have become disconected about the spell effects and other problems that the gu57 gave us. Im starting to feel like were just $ numbers now. I was hoping the addidge of the sqeaky wheel gets the oil would apply here but oh well. Im ready to give trying to get my point across, and try to make the best out of a bad possistion and hope nothing else happens.

Yvtael

08-26-2010, 08:50 AM

Prior to this Game Update, I had completed the storylines for both Greater Faydark and the Frostfang Sea, which of course greyed those lines out and they left the window due to my having completed stories not showing. With the change to the earliest of the quests now for both starting zones, the Storylines have been brought back to life, however, I think they may be bugged. I have gone back and done all the new little quests, but the storylines both show they are still incomplete and in fact, none of the new content even shows up within the story lines. They are a bit fragmented now.

Katz

08-26-2010, 09:16 AM

<cite>isest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>sompet_eq2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just to comment on a few things I've read since my last post.Several of you are saying we completely ignored the feedback on Test server and that couldn't be further from the truth. If you read through this thread, you'll see several things that were modified directly based on your feedback. When it comes to the other complaints, like the XP bar, I gave an explanation that it was not within our control to make those changes.<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=483438" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=483438</a>You have the option to modify your UI or load any of the existing mods out there to custom tailor your experience if there are things about the default that you don't like.As far as the spell effects go, we aren't going to maintain two different sets of spell effects from here until the end of time. But that doesn't mean we aren't willing to make changes to the new system. So I'd recommend posting in a new thread about your specific issues with spell effects. Be sure you mention the class and spell that you have an issue with, and why. Will we change something that only 1 person is upset about? Probably not. But if we see that an issue is affecting many people, we will certainly look closely at a solution.</blockquote>only 1 person is upset? really?</blockquote>I was like 20 pages worth in the original spell discussion was not enough, but hey I went ahead and made a new one. Had to put in in the general area as I don't have the authority to start a thread in the dev area. But yes I still have to ask 20 pages of feedback = 1 person, oh well I hope folks are posting on the new thread otherwise yes there done nothing else to see with spell effects despite how much feedback we gave them.The really sad comentary about the situation is as follows. We only have one dev talking to us. Upper management and the other devs just seam to have become disconected about the spell effects and other problems that the gu57 gave us. Im starting to feel like were just $ numbers now. I was hoping the addidge of the sqeaky wheel gets the oil would apply here but oh well. Im ready to give trying to get my point across, and try to make the best out of a bad possistion and hope nothing else happens.</blockquote>You know what gets me. On the one hand they say that few people use forums and post. (read that as ...we are hinting we don't have to pay attention because you are a small group and in the minority).On the other hand they say post if you want something changed. So which is it? I wonder if they have noticed how many people with less than 10 posts to their name complained, said they had been here for years (EQ1 and EQ2) and were now cancelling. Many are cancelling multiple accounts. This makes me a sad panda. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" />

Naychan

08-26-2010, 09:21 AM

At this point im actually very disgusted with the player base. Do we like alot of the changes NO, did we want alot of the changes NO. Are some people completly over reacting YES.Rothgar and the other developers are employees just like many of us and they have to go to work each day and do thier jobs. I've worked in a company with a fleet of developers and the way it works is they have meeting they propose changes they offer thoes changes & ideas to the people above them for approval and then they get the yes or no. The developers/programmers here are not to blame as they go to work and earn thier paycheck. Like many of us what thier bosses have to say may not always make good sense to them but if they want to keep on working they do it anyway. So get off Rothgar's BUM he is doing what he is able to do within the limits that have been set on him. Openly attacking the only dev that has posted here is not a good way to get him to reply to us.Im sure alot of the dev's are reading this thread and its being talked about somthing of this magnitude is kinda hard to ignore. But for god's sake quite attacking them this is not going to help the live servers at all. The decision was made at a top level for what they think will be a good change overall. We cant change it the devs cant change it so get over it. The only place to go from here is foward. Rothgar and the devs want to know what we think and they will put it toghter and they will present it. but ulitmitly they are presenting it to another group of people who have to approve it.So that being said. Thank you for listening and posting Rothgar and good luck.

rwiz

08-26-2010, 09:36 AM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote> When it comes to the other complaints, like the XP bar, I gave an explanation that it was not within our control to make those changes.</blockquote>Who did decide it ? Please tell us his name and E-mail address...I want to protest him.Because the EQ2 team has given up protesting. When LoN came, I did not say anything.When SC came, I endured it.When welcome window came, I managed to endure it.And, the SC button came. I am a limit of endurance.100 over SC buttons will queue up in UI in several years if not protesting here.Perhaps, EQ2 is the last MMO for me.I met a lot of people in EQ2, and, a lot of people left from EQ2. one person is no longer in the world.I am keeper of guild registration list... until becoming the last one of the guilds.I cannot endure the invasion of RMT any further. It is a challenge to role playing gamer.

Badmotorfinger

08-26-2010, 10:22 AM

Threat Meter...So, through out the SF beta, and periodically brought up in multiple threads on the Conjuror boards. Conjuror's have mentioned the need to have a threat meter visible from their pet. Since beta devs have been saying it was somthing they could add... Fast Forward to now; having just released an update dedicated to the UI... Yet, no new threat meter for the pet.Wouldn't this have been the time for that kind of implimentation? It's just really discouraging to see common requests pushed to the wayside in favor of changes us live players could care less about. Where are our subscription fees going?

Aintdeadyet

08-26-2010, 10:49 AM

<cite>rwiz wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote> When it comes to the other complaints, like the XP bar, I gave an explanation that it was not within our control to make those changes.</blockquote>Who did decide it ? Please tell us his name and E-mail address...I want to protest him.Because the EQ2 team has given up protesting. When LoN came, I did not say anything.When SC came, I endured it.When welcome window came, I managed to endure it.And, the SC button came. I am a limit of endurance.100 over SC buttons will queue up in UI in several years if not protesting here.Perhaps, EQ2 is the last MMO for me.I met a lot of people in EQ2, and, a lot of people left from EQ2. one person is no longer in the world.I am keeper of guild registration list... until becoming the last one of the guilds.I cannot endure the invasion of RMT any further. It is a challenge to role playing gamer.</blockquote>I know how you feel. I play ogame.org and have an acct where we are down to 2 active members, out of the 20 at our height. Not ready to leave a dying game and not sure I want to invest in a new space based mmo.I play because they don't, when I leave all will be gone. Not ready for that one yet.Good luck.

isest

08-26-2010, 11:35 AM

<cite>Naychan@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>At this point im actually very disgusted with the player base. Do we like alot of the changes NO, did we want alot of the changes NO. Are some people completly over reacting YES.Rothgar and the other developers are employees just like many of us and they have to go to work each day and do thier jobs. I've worked in a company with a fleet of developers and the way it works is they have meeting they propose changes they offer thoes changes & ideas to the people above them for approval and then they get the yes or no. The developers/programmers here are not to blame as they go to work and earn thier paycheck. Like many of us what thier bosses have to say may not always make good sense to them but if they want to keep on working they do it anyway. So get off Rothgar's BUM he is doing what he is able to do within the limits that have been set on him. Openly attacking the only dev that has posted here is not a good way to get him to reply to us.Im sure alot of the dev's are reading this thread and its being talked about somthing of this magnitude is kinda hard to ignore. But for god's sake quite attacking them this is not going to help the live servers at all. The decision was made at a top level for what they think will be a good change overall. We cant change it the devs cant change it so get over it. The only place to go from here is foward. Rothgar and the devs want to know what we think and they will put it toghter and they will present it. but ulitmitly they are presenting it to another group of people who have to approve it.So that being said. Thank you for listening and posting Rothgar and good luck.</blockquote>I am a COBOL programmer by trade. I will only say this one time. Our users had to sign off on anything we did. In fact they were the ones who wrote the spec's. If we did not make our users happy, they could write us up. At the end of every 6 months we had to go trough a review. The review was based 50% from our users, 25% on our work being error free and 25% on how our boss though we did. So our users had a huge way to impact us. If you scored lower than 70% approval rating you were put on probation, anything less than 60% you were let go. Talk about performance payed.Also I would like you to point out what you thought was an open attack? I thought my post were nice, compared to some of the other I have seen. I actually even pointed out he was the only dev who was bothering to talk to us while the rest walked inside the sound proof room.I been trying not let let the dev staff have it, while trying to respectfully get my point across; as I know they are under directions. However when he said only 1 person was upset and you got 20 pages on a certain topic, you have to lol at that statement.I think a lot of folks are upset, I am still not going to cancel my account as to me that is an over reaction. However I feel it is m rite as a paying customer to point out what I think is wrong.

sompet_eq2

08-26-2010, 12:24 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I gave an explanation that it was not within our control to make those changes.</blockquote>I understand company policies, having to comply with bosses, having to follow guidelines. But for me (the Customer), it's a very weak excuse; it's not really acceptable. I pay the money to SOE (for the time being!), I'm in contract with SOE. I know that someone within SOE made this decisions, so these changes can be reverted. Of course SOE can set a new direction to EQ2, but I don't necessary have to follow this new direction...<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite> <blockquote>You have the option to modify your UI or load any of the existing mods out there to custom tailor your experience if there are things about the default that you don't like.</blockquote> I made changes to the UI, so I barely see the SC crap, but this is how I feel about your excuse: You take your car to service and a big advertisement is placed on the steering wheel in front of you. Would you accept the following excuse from the man who gives back the keys to you? "It was not within my control but you can remove it yourself if you don't like it" The new UI does not have any usability improvement but some drawback besides the SC things. The separate inventory and persona windows were better, usually it was enough to open only one of them. Now I have to always open the large character window. And it lost it's auto-inventory drop box too.<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>So I'd recommend posting in a new thread about your specific issues with spell effects. Be sure you mention the class and spell that you have an issue with, and why.</blockquote>I don't like the new spell effects. I don't like any of them. It doesn't matter which of them look good and which not. I don't like them because they are VERY different from old effects. You have drastically changed how the characters look because those effects belong to the characters. Even if I would want to create a list of bad effects, I wouldn't be able because I don't know the spell effects. I don't know which effect belongs to which class and which spell. I basically don't know any more what is going on by looking at the screen. My only and supposedly constructive feedback on spell effects: don't make so drastic changes to a six year old game and roll back it! But I'm not the first who says this...<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote> But if we see that an issue is affecting many people, we will certainly look closely at a solution.</blockquote>I followed the test feedback topics but I didn't post there because I could only repeat what majority said there. I didn't make statistics but I felt that the majority of posters were against the changes. And despite the mostly negative feedback almost nothing was changed. Yes, some spells were reverted (but not even included in the GU!) and we didn't know for a week what was changed; not until it went live. Not even with the 3 months GU times!By the way, how many complaints are enough?And speaking about the 3 months and the longer and better GUs with less bugs: this GU and next patch was a disaster for EU servers. We had two very long downtimes in prime times!I'm not angry with Rothgar or any other developer. I'm just sad because the new direction. I still play EQ2 because my friends still play it, I hope I can get used to this direction. But this is not the same as it was before.

Belkeirun

08-26-2010, 05:28 PM

The entire LU is a disgrace and whoever at the top instructed the dev's down this route should be ashamed of themselves. Like the people I play with, I do not use station cash, I earn my equipment, and seeing people prancing round with purchased mounts cheapens my gaming experience. I know certain people don't/can't/won't understand that but considering most of those sad few are penny pushing suits who don't play eq2 I don't really think of their opinion as valid.The eq2 community have been promised repeatedly that station cash wouldn't affect the subscription servers. Yet every update they sneak a little more in. That slippery slope has us hurtling towards the extinction of eq2 as a lot of players know it.This thread should indicate that a lot of players disagree with the direction taken with the UI, new spell effects and blatantly shoving SC down our throats, and if the management still don't believe that then why don't they do an in game survey similar to what was done with station exchange???I choose to vote with my cash, and as most of the people I play with have left in disgust I choose to follow them.2 Accounts cancelled.

Valdaglerion

08-26-2010, 06:15 PM

<cite>isest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Naychan@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>At this point im actually very disgusted with the player base. Do we like alot of the changes NO, did we want alot of the changes NO. Are some people completly over reacting YES.Rothgar and the other developers are employees just like many of us and they have to go to work each day and do thier jobs. I've worked in a company with a fleet of developers and the way it works is they have meeting they propose changes they offer thoes changes & ideas to the people above them for approval and then they get the yes or no. The developers/programmers here are not to blame as they go to work and earn thier paycheck. Like many of us what thier bosses have to say may not always make good sense to them but if they want to keep on working they do it anyway. So get off Rothgar's BUM he is doing what he is able to do within the limits that have been set on him. Openly attacking the only dev that has posted here is not a good way to get him to reply to us.Im sure alot of the dev's are reading this thread and its being talked about somthing of this magnitude is kinda hard to ignore. But for god's sake quite attacking them this is not going to help the live servers at all. The decision was made at a top level for what they think will be a good change overall. We cant change it the devs cant change it so get over it. The only place to go from here is foward. Rothgar and the devs want to know what we think and they will put it toghter and they will present it. but ulitmitly they are presenting it to another group of people who have to approve it.So that being said. Thank you for listening and posting Rothgar and good luck.</blockquote>I am a COBOL programmer by trade. I will only say this one time. Our users had to sign off on anything we did. In fact they were the ones who wrote the spec's. If we did not make our users happy, they could write us up. At the end of every 6 months we had to go trough a review. The review was based 50% from our users, 25% on our work being error free and 25% on how our boss though we did. So our users had a huge way to impact us. If you scored lower than 70% approval rating you were put on probation, anything less than 60% you were let go. Talk about performance payed.Also I would like you to point out what you thought was an open attack? I thought my post were nice, compared to some of the other I have seen. I actually even pointed out he was the only dev who was bothering to talk to us while the rest walked inside the sound proof room.I been trying not let let the dev staff have it, while trying to respectfully get my point across; as I know they are under directions. However when he said only 1 person was upset and you got 20 pages on a certain topic, you have to lol at that statement.I think a lot of folks are upset, I am still not going to cancel my account as to me that is an over reaction. However I feel it is m rite as a paying customer to point out what I think is wrong.</blockquote>Good points on both sides.I dont always agree with Rothgar but I do more often than not and respect the guy, please dont be abusive of the soe team that makes an effort to engage with the player base here.And as a consultant and developer myself I also know that we suggest whatever we like but anything we do without customer approval may not be paid for and honestly could cause us extra time in rolling back or correcting.The entertainment industry an anomaly of this model. You pay the same $10 to see a movie regardless of the cast. The trailers may or may not be accurate but their is no refund policy. You pay upfront. This is also true for music. You buy a CD and they will only exchange it for the same CD regardless of your interpretation of the quality or desirability for the content included. Remember when they tried to let you listen to CD's first in the store and then you could choose whether or not to buy them? Yeah, that didnt last long because sales tanked. Gaming is no different. You buy a game in a store and dont enjoy it, too bad. Once you open it you own it unless its defective and they will replace it. The MMO world is no different. They can change the rules at will and you have no recourse other than to cancel your subscription and discontinue playing. Naturally this in no way compensates you for your previous purchases which are now rendered worthless, your time investment, etc.

Masako

08-26-2010, 07:21 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>You have the option to modify your UI or load any of the existing mods out there to custom tailor your experience if there are things about the default that you don't like.As far as the spell effects go, we aren't going to maintain two different sets of spell effects from here until the end of time. But that doesn't mean we aren't willing to make changes to the new system. So I'd recommend posting in a new thread about your specific issues with spell effects. Be sure you mention the class and spell that you have an issue with, and why. Will we change something that only 1 person is upset about? Probably not. But if we see that an issue is affecting many people, we will certainly look closely at a solution.</blockquote>So this welcome window. I would love to see it gone. Even working with Profit UI, it's still there. I have to basically hack EQ2 files to make it go away. Any chance for the rest of the users out there unconfortable with rooting around in their files getting the option to do away with it? A little check box under Options to "Do not display welcome window" would be peachy.I really would love to go though and list everything I don't like about the new spells, which is a lot. But honestly it wouldn't be worth my time as I would probably be seen by devs out there as that "only 1 person", even though I would probably be the one voice of many others with the exact same concerns that just didn't bother to post.To the devs reading this: Reguarding the upcoming hotfixes. I can only speak for myself, but one of the things that would make be considering firing my subscription back up? Trash the fighter crit nerf. It's obvious this wasn't a well-thought-out decision at all. Why not do something like just adjust the healing amounts of the different heals themselves, let spells crit and take advantage of crit bonus instead of the what was done? I just don't get it at all. My paladin's well... just [Removed for Content]. She was a hybrid class and the hybrid has been nerfed out of her. Now what is she? I along with many others are pretty angry about this change, primarily because it's clear PvP and BGs are now dictating PvE play, something which should never ever have happened.

Jagan

08-26-2010, 09:24 PM

Whats more disturbing about that reply is that, if you use or change your ui without using the default they give you and you have a problem the response you get is "3rd party or altering of the default UI is not supported by SOE".....

Théodwyn

08-26-2010, 09:32 PM

<cite>Jagan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Whats more disturbing about that reply is that, if you use or change your ui without using the default they give you and you have a problem the response you get is "3rd party or altering of the default UI is not supported by SOE".....</blockquote>Yeah. And the response will be, "Not supported doesn't mean not allowed. We are giving you the capability, but use at your own risk, and on your own recognizance; don't expect any support from us".I don't have any problem with that message. What I have a problem with is that the default is so bad that a player has little choice but to take that risk and responsibility of loading a third party UI.

Jagan

08-27-2010, 12:30 AM

Seeing as how fighters heal crits were taken away completely, could you guys come up with something that allows slightly less downtime for the truly new players? better food/drink or something, I like some others aren't into crafting and don't feel as if we should just to play the game.

Outkasted2006

08-27-2010, 05:29 AM

Well if nearly cutting the pally population down to third and increasing the SK pop. even more on Nagafen was intended, I'd say job well done. Great job on POWNING the pally's <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Kabahl

08-27-2010, 05:41 AM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just to comment on a few things I've read since my last post.Several of you are saying we completely ignored the feedback on Test server and that couldn't be further from the truth. If you read through this thread, you'll see several things that were modified directly based on your feedback. When it comes to the other complaints, like the XP bar, I gave an explanation that it was not within our control to make those changes.<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=483438" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=483438</a>You have the option to modify your UI or load any of the existing mods out there to custom tailor your experience if there are things about the default that you don't like.As far as the spell effects go, we aren't going to maintain two different sets of spell effects from here until the end of time. But that doesn't mean we aren't willing to make changes to the new system. So I'd recommend posting in a new thread about your specific issues with spell effects. Be sure you mention the class and spell that you have an issue with, and why. Will we change something that only 1 person is upset about? Probably not. But if we see that an issue is affecting many people, we will certainly look closely at a solution.</blockquote>Wizard: Shackle (any tier) The OLD Shackle were these thick, THICK chains that would surround a mob and really make it look like they were being shackled to the ground. They had the look and graphics of real chains, down to the old, rusty, metallic color. NOW, the shackles are this wimpy, blue-glow-looking shackles that are, well, pathetic looking. Any way to bring back the old Shackles spell effect? MUCH better look. Dunno about "lag-factor" but it was a much sweeter effect.

Kabahl

08-27-2010, 05:49 AM

EQ2 Keeps crashing on me. It has never done so like this in the past. It crashes, sometimes, when I do one of two things:1) When I right click the new Maintained Spell Effect window and go to turn my text on or off (I leave it off, and occasionally turn it on to see timers easily).2) When I want to sell something in the broker and right click it in my broker window and try to hit "Search" to see what others are selling it for and how much.The crash doesn't happen all the time, but it is happening enough, when I do these two things, it is becoming an issue. Any way you can look into that, Rothgar?

Keredh

08-27-2010, 06:23 AM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>As far as the spell effects go, we aren't going to maintain two different sets of spell effects from here until the end of time. But that doesn't mean we aren't willing to make changes to the new system. So I'd recommend posting in a new thread about your specific issues with spell effects. Be sure you mention the class and spell that you have an issue with, and why. Will we change something that only 1 person is upset about? Probably not. But if we see that an issue is affecting many people, we will certainly look closely at a solution.</blockquote>As other players have said, we don't know the individual effects of all the other classes. I don't. What people don't like are the general style and manner of the changes. Reading through all these posts it is clear there is an overwhelming feeling regarding the new spell effects. It doesn't need to be a big deal for SOE, a line in the sand or anything. Rather, it would actually be a big thing - and greeted by your players with relief that SOE is listening and cares for their gaming experience - if SOE simply holds its hands up and says "You're right, on this one we got it wrong". I've played since beta, less and less lately, and the furore since GU57 is like nothing - nothing - we've seen. SOE reversing these changes, as with the fighter revamp, is not unprecedented. It can be a strong thing, a sign you are committed to listening to your players who are saying, in one voice, and on the only public official forum there is, we do not like these changes. Many of us accept that RMT and the SC button have to stay. That's something out of the hands of the Devs - but surely the spell effects are something within their control?When something causes this much upset, it makes no sense not to respond with a big gesture.Lastly, why not maintain two spell sets? They are client-side, they need no improvement or meddling beyond where they were at the point of the update. Like the option to toggle SOGA models, a tick to switch to the original effects. With a clear statement that there will be no further maintenance of them. Perhaps even toggle them as an optional download so new players don't need to be bothered downloading them.Here's hoping. And thank you to Rothgar for engaging on what is clearly a highly-charged issue.Ker

Shareana

08-27-2010, 06:42 AM

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=445320&post_id=5403156" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=44532...post_id=5403156</a> We do not allow THREATS of anyone on these forums.

Zuiya

08-27-2010, 08:06 AM

Wow Tyrus, I'd be careful posting things like that if I were you <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" />

Kringus

08-27-2010, 09:29 AM

What I get from reading the posts and dev replies to this thread is that the devs don't get how people really feel about GU57.Go watch Highlander (the movie). This is how people felt about EQ2.Now go watch Highlander 2. Really soak it in. This is how people feel about GU57.I'm serious. Basically you take something that worked, that people liked, that had a lot of cool stuff- and you change how it looks and feels so that fundamentally people say "eeeewww.".I understand that corporate wants to push <BOLD GIANT LETTERS/ "SC" /BOLD GIANT LETTERS> on players. As a player, if you don't make that pretty easy for me to turn off, I WILL TURN IT OFF by leaving the game. Please stress that to your corporate masters.And please, please, please, make the next GU something we actually want.

Zorastiz

08-27-2010, 09:48 AM

Tyrus - You need to get some sleep man.

rwiz

08-27-2010, 10:51 AM

About new spell effect... I had some questions.1.Why SOE change the spell effect at GU57? Why it should be changed?2.Rothgar finally gave us some replies, however he seems to be that he wants to ignore this problem,as if there are few people blames this problem.I understood today about these problems. When I understood it, I am surprised, and I felt anger.Maybe spell effect was changed for EQ2X.According to the account rank, scribable spell rank is differs.Bronze - Adept , Silver - Expert , Gold - All ranks.Then, If Spell effect changes as it's grade changes, It will become a motivation that raises the account rank.However, it was necessary to throw away spell effect with which it became accustomed and it was familiar therefore.And it was necessary to make it the simple light effect because it should be changed gradually automatically. Moreover, it was necessary to develop the change within a short term to be in time for the release of EQ2X.As a result , GU57's spell effect was made and it has received the complaint from a lot of players.Ｎew producer said that : EQ2X did not influence an existing server at all, and you may disregard it.It is a pure falsehood, GU57 is designed because of EQ2X, and it gives the marked impact to an existing server.Such a thing is not accepted at all. I want to protest strictly.

Draylore

08-27-2010, 11:15 AM

<cite>Kringus wrote:</cite><blockquote>What I get from reading the posts and dev replies to this thread is that the devs don't get how people really feel about GU57.Go watch Highlander (the movie). This is how people felt about EQ2.Now go watch Highlander 2. Really soak it in. This is how people feel about GU57.I'm serious. Basically you take something that worked, that people liked, that had a lot of cool stuff- and you change how it looks and feels so that fundamentally people say "eeeewww.".I understand that corporate wants to push on players. As a player, if you don't make that pretty easy for me to turn off, I WILL TURN IT OFF by leaving the game. Please stress that to your corporate masters.And please, please, please, make the next GU something we actually want.</blockquote>There was a Highlander 2? =P

Antigua

08-27-2010, 11:41 AM

<cite>Jagan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Seeing as how fighters heal crits were taken away completely, could you guys come up with something that allows slightly less downtime for the truly new players? better food/drink or something, I like some others aren't into crafting and don't feel as if we should just to play the game.</blockquote>I hate to get too far off the important part of this thread (GU57 sucks), but I think this needs commented on:If you don't want to craft it, go buy some. If you're so new that you can't afford a stack of basic crafted food, you're new enough the crit change is barely affecting you. Provisioners are one of the most screwed-over tradeskill classes already. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone who makes less per combine - even if we're fair and only compare non-rare combines. I myself have long since passed the point where I will only use my provisioner to make things for myself and for my friends - selling it on the broker will make me so little cashf or the amount of time I spend that I can't understand why the other provioners bother.I know you think food's a bad investment since you're just going to gulp it down, but come on. At low levels a half-stack or quarter-stack of good food will last you longer than a suit of armour, and cost less than, say, a single crafted earring. Quit hating on the provisioners.

denmom

08-27-2010, 12:33 PM

<cite>Draylore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kringus wrote:</cite><blockquote>What I get from reading the posts and dev replies to this thread is that the devs don't get how people really feel about GU57.Go watch Highlander (the movie). This is how people felt about EQ2.Now go watch Highlander 2. Really soak it in. This is how people feel about GU57.I'm serious. Basically you take something that worked, that people liked, that had a lot of cool stuff- and you change how it looks and feels so that fundamentally people say "eeeewww.".I understand that corporate wants to push on players. As a player, if you don't make that pretty easy for me to turn off, I WILL TURN IT OFF by leaving the game. Please stress that to your corporate masters.And please, please, please, make the next GU something we actually want.</blockquote>There was a Highlander 2? =P</blockquote>And a three, and a four. Plus two series.

Tyrus Dracofire

08-27-2010, 03:36 PM

yeah, i just woke up, still angry with SOE, it wasnt a threat, it was just giving head up to look out.who knows if there are some really disturbed unstable player out there could stalking, but it not me anyway. not that insane, lol.just said in deleted post, my brother in law just played several weeks before GU57, suddeny this UI reset got him lost and didnt like new UI settings and too clutter, he got frustrated and decided to cancel his account, and wont even try DC Universerse since it got SOE logo, and he just lost trust with those guys in SOE. saying he felt he got stabbed in the back.new players who came after GU57 wont know the differences, but my prediction, it will going to fail due to economy downfall and will slowly to lose interests just like when the game begin to feel stale, people will leave and look for newer fresh playground also will be hit by criminal hackers seeking the bigger income accounts.it going to need a newer tough security to protect game accounts and that is main priority for safe log-ins and other things.i am just saying that we need better CEO that really understood what the fun mean and how important for the games and keep the promises and never to break them. right now many players are no longer able to trust again, another bad decision hit again, many will leave, making some servers become ghost towns.LOL!, did someone up in executive forgot thier meds and prone to cranky mood swings? bad call.now i am getting my cup of coffee.Moderators, my apologies, hope this is better than last one that was deleted.i seriously Hope that GU58 will be lot better and lessons learned from angry players and have expected contents before Destiny of Veloius get release.

Dreyco

08-27-2010, 04:55 PM

After this update, the lag associated with the transition to the loading screen is AWFUL! This needs to be fixed!

rwiz

08-27-2010, 07:43 PM

<cite>Keredh wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>As far as the spell effects go, we aren't going to maintain two different sets of spell effects from here until the end of time. But that doesn't mean we aren't willing to make changes to the new system. So I'd recommend posting in a new thread about your specific issues with spell effects. Be sure you mention the class and spell that you have an issue with, and why. Will we change something that only 1 person is upset about? Probably not. But if we see that an issue is affecting many people, we will certainly look closely at a solution.</blockquote>As other players have said, we don't know the individual effects of all the other classes. I don't. What people don't like are the general style and manner of the changes. Reading through all these posts it is clear there is an overwhelming feeling regarding the new spell effects. It doesn't need to be a big deal for SOE, a line in the sand or anything. Rather, it would actually be a big thing - and greeted by your players with relief that SOE is listening and cares for their gaming experience - if SOE simply holds its hands up and says "You're right, on this one we got it wrong". I've played since beta, less and less lately, and the furore since GU57 is like nothing - nothing - we've seen. SOE reversing these changes, as with the fighter revamp, is not unprecedented. It can be a strong thing, a sign you are committed to listening to your players who are saying, in one voice, and on the only public official forum there is, we do not like these changes. Many of us accept that RMT and the SC button have to stay. That's something out of the hands of the Devs - but surely the spell effects are something within their control?When something causes this much upset, it makes no sense not to respond with a big gesture.Lastly, why not maintain two spell sets? They are client-side, they need no improvement or meddling beyond where they were at the point of the update. Like the option to toggle SOGA models, a tick to switch to the original effects. With a clear statement that there will be no further maintenance of them. Perhaps even toggle them as an optional download so new players don't need to be bothered downloading them.Here's hoping. And thank you to Rothgar for engaging on what is clearly a highly-charged issue.Ker</blockquote>Yes SOE can maintain two spell sets. But they don't want to do it.WHY?Because, GU57's spell effect is made for EQ2X.For EQ2X,spell effect should be change by it's grade, and it become motivation to grade up EQ2X's account rank. (Spell rank differs by account : Bronze - Adept , Silver - Expert , Gold - All ranks.)Old good spell effect is thrown away because of EQ2X !

TepOssur

08-28-2010, 02:49 AM

Giving this a good old fashioned bump, because, for some strange reason, the Halas feedback is still stickied yet this one isn't... wonder why that is! <.< >.>

DJWolf5

08-28-2010, 03:19 AM

I want EQ2 to be profitable. I want EQ2 to be popular. I want to zone into the 30th instance of a zone because there are that many players online. The problem is that with the current marketing strategies it is never going to happen.Shoving Station Cash down our throats as a prelude to making the "free to play" game the major version of EQ2 will not work and will spell the end for SOE.It is true that these "free to play" games make huge money but they are getting known in the wider community as "gaming leprosy". Kids with more money than sense can spend thousands of dollars getting outfitted and levelled but this can only lead to public outrage and bolster the "anti-video game" movement. It won't be long before "free to play" games will get the pariah status they deserve and SOE will rue the day they took this up.The real money can only be had by presenting a game that makes anyone who sees it want to play it. The problem for SOE is not that EQ2 requires a PC of a higher spec than any average computer in every electrical store on the planet. Nor is it because EQ2 is complex - You have to spend a good deal of time playing to discover that. The problem is that as a brand name, EQ2 is relatively unknown. WOW has it's customer base because Blizzard spends cash on marketing.It is that simple. Everyone wants more. Everyone wants better and if WOW players were aware of EQ2 many of them would want to switch... but they don't. Where is the EQ2 television advertising? Where is the German server? The Dutch Server? The Australian Server? The Japanese, Russian, Chinese, Korean, French... Without them, SOE loses 80% or more of its potential profits and marketing power.Sony will not emulate the big money games by driving away its loyal customer base and creating a "free to play" WOW lookalike.

DJWolf5

08-28-2010, 03:44 AM

On the matter of the Crusader and fighter nerf:I really don't want to play my palidin anymore. A third of his spells/CAs are heals but they aren't spells or heals are they? I know this because heals are bonused by the "spell crit" and "crit bonus" stats on the armor I worked so hard to acquire. Now they are abilities like "tracking" or "mining" that just do what they do.This nerf was unforgivable because it made visible the mechanics of the game. For example, we all know that it is impossible to swim wearing any kind of plate or chain armor. In reality, you'd sink like an anvil but no one thinks about it. We accept it as one of the realities of Norrath. However, if SOE had said that Templars can't swim with their armor because they'd sink like a brick, the entire mechanism becomes visible and it is no longer a reality of norrath. How is it then that guardians float in plate?In the same way, there is no such thing as a "critical heal" or a "critical hit". In reality, hitting someone over the head with a rock does two types of damage: a 'gradient' damage - that is, the harder you hit the more damage you do and a chance that you may or may not hit an artery or a vulnerable spot. The "normal hit" and the "critical hit" emulate these and this system applies to all combat actions within the game. Suddenly, the paladin's heal arbitrarily fails to follow this system and so his heroic efforts can no longer achieve heroic results. We now become aware that the paladin cannot heal; he can only administer 'first aid' and I have lost that connection that I had with this character...Another unhappy customer. I won't cancel my account or storm off in a rage but like many others the hold this game had over me has been loosened and it is only a matter of time before I leave.

CoolBreeze

08-28-2010, 09:42 AM

Ok, I've been playing with this for long enough to be sure about how I feel about the whole thing. So here goes....1. The UI changes: Meh. I can live with it. I'm insulted by the move to make the game I chose to play into more of a clone of WoW than ever. I don't use station cash much so I really don't care about the effort to make it more in my face I just ignore it. I use profit anyway so most of it I'll never even see. Hey, here's an idea, how about making the standard interface more like the most popular UI? More long term players already use that than use the standard interface anyway.2. The graphic and animation changes: I already used the soga models on some of the races, not on others, and I'll continue to do so, not a big deal to me. The animations aren't anything special and I miss the old ones, but I can and will live with it.3. The fighter changes: WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU THINKING????? Equipment procs still allow players with top-end raid gear to solo instances and for the record I know MORE HEALERS that do that than fighters. They get uber tank gear, equip it on their healer and do as well or better in those instances than the fighters ever did.Over half of the paladin mains I know are now retired or out of the game completely. One of the best pally's on my server says he'll never play it again because the ability to heal was critical to his play style, he was phenomenal even when paladins were considered a second-class tank - now that is just sad. You've taken a defining characteristic of the class and gutted it.My berserker is definitely a lot less fun now than before. I had just leveled it up and begun to enjoy playing it almost as much as I do my wizard and I certainly wasn't soloing any heroic zones, but now my survivability has taken a major setback. Bah.I've listened to other players who play various tank classes and only one of them is happy about the changes - A guardian player who is crowing that all the other tank classes have been turned into useless crap while his is going to get a major revamp to make it into the next overpowered game breaking debacle by SOE.In summary: keep your pointless fluff designed to get people to spend more money on crap and attract 12 year olds who are tired of WoW and give us back our tank classes' heal crit.

Goldburg

08-28-2010, 01:13 PM

I was in the middle of a long post and decided it would fall of deaf ears.Honestly don't let fighter crit heal nerf be the first in a long line of changes for problems you created by doing the stat consolidation combined with poor planning.I would ask that the fighter crit heals be reinstated, the UI changed back, the animations changed back and more polish added to current content with new content released instead of updates such as GU 57.

isest

08-28-2010, 02:04 PM

<cite>Goldburg wrote:</cite><blockquote>I was in the middle of a long post and decided it would fall of deaf ears.Honestly don't let fighter crit heal nerf be the first in a long line of changes for problems you created by doing the stat consolidation combined with poor planning.I would ask that the fighter crit heals be reinstated, the UI changed back, the animations changed back and more polish added to current content with new content released instead of updates such as GU 57.</blockquote>It would be nice to see them revert. however I have to say the main reason why we got gu57 was the fact it was pushed out for the eq2-extended servers.We already hear Rothgar say there not going to keep 2 sets of code. So were stuck with gu57 as they had to have it for the extended stuff.I have a feeling no matter how much we gripe and complain about it all, it is here to stay. Too bad there is a total disconnect between the player base and soe nowadays. I get it that smoke was hired to make f2p, and I get it that the devs have their marching orders. It is really a shame that smoke does not understand the players that are in live.I wish that the extended servers were exactly like what smoke was saying that there would be no impact, however we on libe have clearly been impacted by extended.It would be nice to get a rollback on this stuff, but honestly as long as extended continues to impact live that is not going to happen. I guess that this point its all water under the bridge, as you are right, deaf ears no longer here what is said in the live forums.

denmom

08-28-2010, 04:46 PM

I agree...it seems as if whatever players, the paying customers, have to say about the changes to live servers isn't being heard.The decision has been made. It has been implemented. We now must either adapt or cancel our subs for whatever reason(s) which are personal to us.My guildee found this video over on youtube. It shows just how grand Everquest 2 can be.Personally, I see it as it shows how grand Everquest 2 was.<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZuA_q6jbNA" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZuA_q6jbNA</a>

Dreyco

08-28-2010, 05:12 PM

<cite>Pheep@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I agree...it seems as if whatever players, the paying customers, have to say about the changes to live servers isn't being heard.The decision has been made. It has been implemented. We now must either adapt or cancel our subs for whatever reason(s) which are personal to us.My guildee found this video over on youtube. It shows just how grand Everquest 2 can be.Personally, I see it as it shows how grand Everquest 2 was.<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZuA_q6jbNA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZuA_q6jbNA</a></blockquote>Right. Because everything displayed in that video has changed fundamentally 100%. Everything is so different... the changes so permeating.. that is effects everything in that video.Oh wait...

isest

08-28-2010, 05:29 PM

<cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pheep@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I agree...it seems as if whatever players, the paying customers, have to say about the changes to live servers isn't being heard.The decision has been made. It has been implemented. We now must either adapt or cancel our subs for whatever reason(s) which are personal to us.My guildee found this video over on youtube. It shows just how grand Everquest 2 can be.Personally, I see it as it shows how grand Everquest 2 was.<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZuA_q6jbNA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZuA_q6jbNA</a></blockquote>Right. Because everything displayed in that video has changed fundamentally 100%. Everything is so different... the changes so permeating.. that is effects everything in that video.Oh wait...</blockquote>Too bad I don't speak japanese as i would have been nice to know the words that went with it. It did show how grand our game was before we got a step down in graphics. Nice to see it on ultra high, to bad my vid card does not like ultra high settings.

Dreyco

08-28-2010, 05:34 PM

<cite>isest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pheep@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I agree...it seems as if whatever players, the paying customers, have to say about the changes to live servers isn't being heard.The decision has been made. It has been implemented. We now must either adapt or cancel our subs for whatever reason(s) which are personal to us.My guildee found this video over on youtube. It shows just how grand Everquest 2 can be.Personally, I see it as it shows how grand Everquest 2 was.<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZuA_q6jbNA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZuA_q6jbNA</a></blockquote>Right. Because everything displayed in that video has changed fundamentally 100%. Everything is so different... the changes so permeating.. that is effects everything in that video.Oh wait...</blockquote>Too bad I don't speak japanese as i would have been nice to know the words that went with it. It did show how grand our game was before we got a step down in graphics. Nice to see it on ultra high, to bad my vid card does not like ultra high settings.</blockquote>Yes. Because all the zone graphics shown in that video were also downgraded terribly. It looks like garbage now. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.......

Ciara52

08-28-2010, 07:06 PM

As for the memories of what was I personally like this one. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM_z5CS4Pe4&feature=related">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM_z...feature=related</a>I'm not going to quit. I thought about it long and hard. At least not right now. I know there isn't much hope but maybe there is still someone left at the office that has some backbone. At least enough to say "look this is really bad" I know the bottom line has to be better but this is not the way.Most likely not. I"m a bean counter myself so I know about the bottom line.

denmom

08-28-2010, 08:00 PM

<cite>Ciara52 wrote:</cite><blockquote>As for the memories of what was I personally like this one. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM_z5CS4Pe4&feature=related">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM_z...feature=related</a>I'm not going to quit. I thought about it long and hard. At least not right now. I know there isn't much hope but maybe there is still someone left at the office that has some backbone. At least enough to say "look this is really bad" I know the bottom line has to be better but this is not the way.Most likely not. I"m a bean counter myself so I know about the bottom line. </blockquote>Wow, I could tell what each spell and CA was by the graphics in those fights.I've never raided on the Sinking Sands et al shown in there, nice to have seen it finally.I won't quit either, but the game doesn't give across the feeling of being that Crusader or the Mage etc. Not anymore with how the graphics are.It's like playing a low end console game now. /sigh

LordPazuzu

08-28-2010, 09:14 PM

I don't think I've ever seen the playerbase agree so widely on a single topic. To bad that agreement is on how badly this GU failed.

Rothgar

08-28-2010, 10:38 PM

<cite>rwiz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes SOE can maintain two spell sets. But they don't want to do it.WHY?Because, GU57's spell effect is made for EQ2X.For EQ2X,spell effect should be change by it's grade, and it become motivation to grade up EQ2X's account rank. (Spell rank differs by account : Bronze - Adept , Silver - Expert , Gold - All ranks.)Old good spell effect is thrown away because of EQ2X !</blockquote>I'm not sure where you got your information, but this is all incorrect. Spell effects are upgraded with the spell tier; Apprentice, Journeyman, Adept, Expert, Master. This has nothing to do with EQ2X. The modifications to the spell effects were started more than a year ago.

Ephigy

08-28-2010, 11:05 PM

So the end result of a years worth of work is the effects we have now?I'm at a loss for words.

Capricola

08-28-2010, 11:33 PM

I rarely post on the official forums but this update is just ugly. I been playing eq2 off and on for over 6 years now and this is probably one of if not the worst update i have ever seen. No new content for existing players, Default UI looks too much like WoW now to me. Eq2x i wouldn't say is a bad idea but not there best, Putting that ugly xp bar in live was a bad idea. This update did [Removed for Content] me off bad, nothing new for me just more lag and spell effects i don't even see since i only raid and i always have my settings down to help with the already laggy game. Fighter heal crits did nothing, i still see tanks soling zones, should of just had it not effect pvp, just a minor scratch on tanks, there soloing abilities didn't seem to change at all.In summary, Worthless update, waste of developers time and resources on this update, you could of put that money into upgrading servers or better yet, new content. I bet the time it took to Program that xp bar, you could of done a new instance, since some of these zones seems you only spend about a day of programming on anyway......Just putting my thoughts out there

rwiz

08-28-2010, 11:35 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>rwiz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes SOE can maintain two spell sets. But they don't want to do it.WHY?Because, GU57's spell effect is made for EQ2X.For EQ2X,spell effect should be change by it's grade, and it become motivation to grade up EQ2X's account rank. (Spell rank differs by account : Bronze - Adept , Silver - Expert , Gold - All ranks.)Old good spell effect is thrown away because of EQ2X !</blockquote>I'm not sure where you got your information, but this is all incorrect. Spell effects are upgraded with the spell tier; Apprentice, Journeyman, Adept, Expert, Master. This has nothing to do with EQ2X. The modifications to the spell effects were started more than a year ago.</blockquote>Yes I know, what I want to say that : Bronze rank player can use Adept spells that has lower spell effect. If Bronze rank player sees Gold rank player's Master spell effect, he will want to pay money to rank up.In this point, GU57's spell effect change aims EQ2X.And did it start more than year ago? There were no informations previous before it appeared on testserver.Since shader3.0 was announced many times before on testserver.

Capricola

08-28-2010, 11:40 PM

If soe would of just released a quest line, or even ONE instance i wouldn't be as [Removed for Content], since all i do right now is log in to raid, instances this xpac are boring. Everything feels cut and paste.

drakkenshie

08-29-2010, 12:16 AM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>rwiz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes SOE can maintain two spell sets. But they don't want to do it.WHY?Because, GU57's spell effect is made for EQ2X.For EQ2X,spell effect should be change by it's grade, and it become motivation to grade up EQ2X's account rank. (Spell rank differs by account : Bronze - Adept , Silver - Expert , Gold - All ranks.)Old good spell effect is thrown away because of EQ2X !</blockquote>I'm not sure where you got your information, but this is all incorrect. Spell effects are upgraded with the spell tier; Apprentice, Journeyman, Adept, Expert, Master. This has nothing to do with EQ2X. The modifications to the spell effects were started more than a year ago.</blockquote>He gets his information from people like you... <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Seriously... this is how EQ2 extended works: you get certain levels of things based on how much you pay, and yes that does include different levels of spell effects. I think he just stated it incorrectly. I'm not saying that's WHY this was done, but that is the net effect so its natural for people to make that assumption.As far as you starting these FX changes a year ago... not sure what to say. They are very poor quality so why did it take a year?Or do you mean you started writing a new FX engine or something like that?I'm sure it was not intended, but what you are saying here can only make people even more upset, at least without more detail.

EndevorX

08-29-2010, 12:19 AM

<cite>drakkenshield wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>rwiz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes SOE can maintain two spell sets. But they don't want to do it.WHY?Because, GU57's spell effect is made for EQ2X.For EQ2X,spell effect should be change by it's grade, and it become motivation to grade up EQ2X's account rank. (Spell rank differs by account : Bronze - Adept , Silver - Expert , Gold - All ranks.)Old good spell effect is thrown away because of EQ2X !</blockquote>I'm not sure where you got your information, but this is all incorrect. Spell effects are upgraded with the spell tier; Apprentice, Journeyman, Adept, Expert, Master. This has nothing to do with EQ2X. The modifications to the spell effects were started more than a year ago.</blockquote>He gets his information from people like you... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />Seriously... this is how EQ2 extended works: you get certain levels of things based on how much you pay, and yes that does include different levels of spell effects. I think he just stated it incorrectly. I'm not saying that's WHY this was done, but that is the net effect so its natural for people to make that assumption.As far as you starting these FX changes a year ago... not sure what to say. They are very poor quality so why did it take a year?Or do you mean you started writing a new FX engine or something like that?I'm sure it was not intended, but what you are saying here can only make people even more upset, at least without more detail.</blockquote>Seriously...I don't mean to be harsh or anything but all you have to do is look at games like Fable, Rift: Planes of Telara, maybe even old crap like Diablo or Baldur's Gate, and you can get a lot better ideas for particle effects than what was released in GU#57.Given the current state of code, I just dont see what was released as feasible for a year's workload...unless those responsible are a little inexperienced in their field, or unless EQ2's engine is just that terrible.I don't know any of the specifics obviously, but it's been over a week and a half since Hemophobe said the classic features would be reverted, and they aren't yet.

isest

08-29-2010, 12:20 AM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>rwiz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes SOE can maintain two spell sets. But they don't want to do it.WHY?Because, GU57's spell effect is made for EQ2X.For EQ2X,spell effect should be change by it's grade, and it become motivation to grade up EQ2X's account rank. (Spell rank differs by account : Bronze - Adept , Silver - Expert , Gold - All ranks.)Old good spell effect is thrown away because of EQ2X !</blockquote>I'm not sure where you got your information, but this is all incorrect. Spell effects are upgraded with the spell tier; Apprentice, Journeyman, Adept, Expert, Master. This has nothing to do with EQ2X. The modifications to the spell effects were started more than a year ago.</blockquote>Really the feedback on multiple threads and multiple forums should say it all, and no I'm not the only person who honestly thought the spell effect changes were due to eq2x, after all the info about gold, silver and bronze plans and spells having different effects and all.So if this really does not have anything to do with eq2x then please please listen to your player base and roll this stuff back, or take a very hard look at the feedback not only in this thread, but multiple threads spread all around the forums, here, but flames and others. Even massively did a number on it.Changing stuff that's been around for 6 years, shook your player base up. I understand you wanting to make the game better, but this did not make the game better. So please consider all the feedback you have so far, there is tons of it all over the forums in multiple threads.Thats all I can ask.

rwiz

08-29-2010, 01:18 AM

In addition, there are two way can be thought about Spell effect upgrade- It's tier or It's Lv.I think it is natural that spell effect upgrade by Lv, Lv10(Low effect) →Lv50(middle effect) → Lv90(high effect)However, SOE selected that spell should be changed by it's tier, Adept(Low effect)→Expert(middle effect)→Master(high effect)Because it suit for EQ2X. This is evidence.My shield bash Ⅲ(Lv27-master) and shield bash Ⅷ(Lv89-master) has same effect lol.

Frenzywolf

08-29-2010, 04:25 AM

Ok.. so when I cast SoW it does not show the wolf running... instead all I see is a stupid little poof of glow and the sound has changed to.. dont' sound like a wolf anymore just an annoying sound. Now you CANNOT upgrade SoW... so explain even that!

Torvos

08-29-2010, 04:36 AM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>rwiz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes SOE can maintain two spell sets. But they don't want to do it.WHY?Because, GU57's spell effect is made for EQ2X.For EQ2X,spell effect should be change by it's grade, and it become motivation to grade up EQ2X's account rank. (Spell rank differs by account : Bronze - Adept , Silver - Expert , Gold - All ranks.)Old good spell effect is thrown away because of EQ2X !</blockquote>I'm not sure where you got your information, but this is all incorrect. Spell effects are upgraded with the spell tier; Apprentice, Journeyman, Adept, Expert, Master. This has nothing to do with EQ2X. The modifications to the spell effects were started more than a year ago.</blockquote> You posted this on the EQ2X forums<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Its true that some spell effects were "toned down" for performance reasons but there were also other changes made to the spell system. For example, spells effects now grow with the tier of the spell. So if you're looking at effects from Apprentice level spells, yes they will seem tiny compared to the old ones. But as you upgrade those spells, the effects get bigger and better. This was done so you'd have more of a visual method to say "oh, that guy has his master fireball" and it would be more impressive than the apprentice level.I know that Gary is still making tweaks to some spells though, so if you feel that some aren't as good as the old spells, please post your feedback in the thread on the Live forums. He's certainly reading it and taking that feedback into consideration.</blockquote> There arn't a lot of ways to read that without thinking this was done for EQ2X. It all sort of explains itself.

Hamervelder

08-29-2010, 04:54 AM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>rwiz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes SOE can maintain two spell sets. But they don't want to do it.WHY?Because, GU57's spell effect is made for EQ2X.For EQ2X,spell effect should be change by it's grade, and it become motivation to grade up EQ2X's account rank. (Spell rank differs by account : Bronze - Adept , Silver - Expert , Gold - All ranks.)Old good spell effect is thrown away because of EQ2X !</blockquote>I'm not sure where you got your information, but this is all incorrect. Spell effects are upgraded with the spell tier; Apprentice, Journeyman, Adept, Expert, Master. This has nothing to do with EQ2X. The modifications to the spell effects were started more than a year ago.</blockquote>.... seriously? You guys can (and have in the past) do better than this. The new spell effects look like they might have come off of a five year-old PS2 game. Sorry to be so bold, but a great many of them are utter rubbish.

Bhagpuss

08-29-2010, 06:43 AM

<cite>Illiam@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>rwiz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes SOE can maintain two spell sets. But they don't want to do it.WHY?Because, GU57's spell effect is made for EQ2X.For EQ2X,spell effect should be change by it's grade, and it become motivation to grade up EQ2X's account rank. (Spell rank differs by account : Bronze - Adept , Silver - Expert , Gold - All ranks.)Old good spell effect is thrown away because of EQ2X !</blockquote>I'm not sure where you got your information, but this is all incorrect. Spell effects are upgraded with the spell tier; Apprentice, Journeyman, Adept, Expert, Master. This has nothing to do with EQ2X. The modifications to the spell effects were started more than a year ago.</blockquote>.... seriously? You guys can (and have in the past) do better than this. The new spell effects look like they might have come off of a five year-old PS2 game. Sorry to be so bold, but a great many of them are utter rubbish.</blockquote>It's all a matter of taste, isn't it? I prefer some of the new spell effects to the old ones. Some of the old ones I liked better and I actually preferred some of the spell effects from the previous version, going back several years, to any of the current ones.Anyone who's played SoE MMOs for a number of years will know that the spell effects are changed numerous times as time goes by. No point getting too attached to any of them because you never know how long any of them will be with us.

Morghus

08-29-2010, 07:13 AM

<cite>Illiam@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>rwiz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes SOE can maintain two spell sets. But they don't want to do it.WHY?Because, GU57's spell effect is made for EQ2X.For EQ2X,spell effect should be change by it's grade, and it become motivation to grade up EQ2X's account rank. (Spell rank differs by account : Bronze - Adept , Silver - Expert , Gold - All ranks.)Old good spell effect is thrown away because of EQ2X !</blockquote>I'm not sure where you got your information, but this is all incorrect. Spell effects are upgraded with the spell tier; Apprentice, Journeyman, Adept, Expert, Master. This has nothing to do with EQ2X. The modifications to the spell effects were started more than a year ago.</blockquote>.... seriously? You guys can (and have in the past) do better than this. The new spell effects look like they might have come off of a five year-old PS2 game. Sorry to be so bold, but a great many of them are utter rubbish.</blockquote>In all seriousness, what you said is a disservice to PS2 games. PS2 graphics are better even than that.

Palleon

08-29-2010, 08:04 AM

Out of interest, with all this talk of how the default UI is so ugly.... you do know you can press F10 and move everything, resize everything, and right click and change how it all looks right? You can even drag the XP into micro size and move it so the SC button is offscreen and you never see it.With some tweaking, my new default UI looks like my old default UI. It took all of 10 minutes. And it saved in place. With no addons.

eq2john

08-29-2010, 08:04 AM

My sub remains canceled and runs out next month. I cannot support the live game after the changes made with this update.But anyway, having an open mind, and out of curiosity we installed the extend service.Looking at it afresh, from scratch, extend does feel like a completely different game.But I do think the live game will continue to absorb the changes made for the extend service. If you are a subscriber you will always be reminded of that.So, anyway, my extend experiment will default to the bronze service when my sub runs out. Get to 80, with restrictions, without buying SC, upgrading the service or paying for anything? Now there is a challenge. Perhaps this update has provided an unexpected breath of fresh air after all.Edit: for typo and waffle.

Xal

08-29-2010, 08:55 AM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>rwiz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes SOE can maintain two spell sets. But they don't want to do it.WHY?Because, GU57's spell effect is made for EQ2X.For EQ2X,spell effect should be change by it's grade, and it become motivation to grade up EQ2X's account rank. (Spell rank differs by account : Bronze - Adept , Silver - Expert , Gold - All ranks.)Old good spell effect is thrown away because of EQ2X !</blockquote>I'm not sure where you got your information, but this is all incorrect. Spell effects are upgraded with the spell tier; Apprentice, Journeyman, Adept, Expert, Master. This has nothing to do with EQ2X. The modifications to the spell effects were started more than a year ago.</blockquote>Actually, rwiz is correct, he simply uses the term rank rather than tier. And yes, maybe the spell effect were not upgraded for EQ2X, but you'll have to admit that this has to be a pretty big coincidence, seeing how they just happen to appear in the game the instant EQ2X is released and lots and lots of SC stuff is forced onto the live servers.Look, the fact of the matter is that people simply lost their faith in the game's development. I am sure that if circumstances were different and the new particle effects would have been released without EQ2X (i dare say without Smokejumper's influence) and along with some content, people would have been a lot more understanding about it. Now, it is yet another annoyance on a long list of things people dislike. Take it from another software developer, most customers are actually okay if some of their wishes can't realized. They may not like it, but eventually they'll accept it. But once you start throwing stuff they don't want at them without _actively_ listening to their feedback you can rest assured they'll move on.

Leafle

08-29-2010, 08:56 AM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote> The modifications to the spell effects were started more than a year ago.</blockquote>It took you a year to make them worse? Sweet.

isest

08-29-2010, 11:08 AM

<cite>Leaflett wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote> The modifications to the spell effects were started more than a year ago.</blockquote>It took you a year to make them worse? Sweet.</blockquote>Honestly I could see them taking a year to make them better. Some are, but for the most part they missed what they were trying to do, and failed miserably at it. If it took a year to make these nerfed down particle effects them somebody needs a job evaluation. To me it looks more of a rushed job than anything. I been coding for 24 years, while I am on the other side of coding with Cobol, I do get to work with folks who design the web site, video editing and what not; and even they can tell you it looks like a rush job just by looking at it.I will end by saying this, you dont take a year to make things worse, you make things better. Does anybody honestly call this better?

Neiloch

08-29-2010, 11:14 AM

lol I'm blown away by all these PO'd people. As a ranger my effects are 100% better imo. And as a raiding ranger I hardly have cause to kiss SoE's butt.Also love this "I know people and I do stuff and i'm saying its crap", get someone who actually works on video games in general and you MIGHT get a rough idea of how the internal structure works. Someone who has actually worked with art assets, under a producer on a high profile game is even better.

Wingrider01

08-29-2010, 11:16 AM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>rwiz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes SOE can maintain two spell sets. But they don't want to do it.WHY?Because, GU57's spell effect is made for EQ2X.For EQ2X,spell effect should be change by it's grade, and it become motivation to grade up EQ2X's account rank. (Spell rank differs by account : Bronze - Adept , Silver - Expert , Gold - All ranks.)Old good spell effect is thrown away because of EQ2X !</blockquote>I'm not sure where you got your information, but this is all incorrect. Spell effects are upgraded with the spell tier; Apprentice, Journeyman, Adept, Expert, Master. This has nothing to do with EQ2X. The modifications to the spell effects were started more than a year ago.</blockquote>Rothgar normally I am a big supporter of you, but this is one time I have to go by my feelings. EQ2X has got to have had a influence on this change. The graphic effects requirements almost had to be lowered to allow low and mid ranged boxes to respond well in a high spell effects area in eq2ex. I run a I7-980X with a Nvidia Fermi GTX480 in extreme quality on eq2live, during raids I had to dial down the affects to get decent frame rate, I raided for the first time after the GU and at the end of it realized I never changed the graphic settings to my raid loadout.Granted this is a opinion since no one is privy to any of the development discusions that are held, but it just seems coincidental that the spell effects where greatly dimished in correlation with the release of the f2p model. tinhat thought are not, the coincidence factor is there.

Dreyco

08-29-2010, 02:58 PM

<cite>Wingrider01 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>rwiz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes SOE can maintain two spell sets. But they don't want to do it.WHY?Because, GU57's spell effect is made for EQ2X.For EQ2X,spell effect should be change by it's grade, and it become motivation to grade up EQ2X's account rank. (Spell rank differs by account : Bronze - Adept , Silver - Expert , Gold - All ranks.)Old good spell effect is thrown away because of EQ2X !</blockquote>I'm not sure where you got your information, but this is all incorrect. Spell effects are upgraded with the spell tier; Apprentice, Journeyman, Adept, Expert, Master. This has nothing to do with EQ2X. The modifications to the spell effects were started more than a year ago.</blockquote>Rothgar normally I am a big supporter of you, but this is one time I have to go by my feelings. EQ2X has got to have had a influence on this change. The graphic effects requirements almost had to be lowered to allow low and mid ranged boxes to respond well in a high spell effects area in eq2ex. I run a I7-980X with a Nvidia Fermi GTX480 in extreme quality on eq2live, during raids I had to dial down the affects to get decent frame rate, I raided for the first time after the GU and at the end of it realized I never changed the graphic settings to my raid loadout.Granted this is a opinion since no one is privy to any of the development discusions that are held, but it just seems coincidental that the spell effects where greatly dimished in correlation with the release of the f2p model. tinhat thought are not, the coincidence factor is there.</blockquote>And without any evidence otherwise, it's just that; a coincidence, and not evidence. Put the tin foil hats away, people. You're grasping at straws.

Dasein

08-29-2010, 03:13 PM

<cite>Wingrider01 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>rwiz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes SOE can maintain two spell sets. But they don't want to do it.WHY?Because, GU57's spell effect is made for EQ2X.For EQ2X,spell effect should be change by it's grade, and it become motivation to grade up EQ2X's account rank. (Spell rank differs by account : Bronze - Adept , Silver - Expert , Gold - All ranks.)Old good spell effect is thrown away because of EQ2X !</blockquote>I'm not sure where you got your information, but this is all incorrect. Spell effects are upgraded with the spell tier; Apprentice, Journeyman, Adept, Expert, Master. This has nothing to do with EQ2X. The modifications to the spell effects were started more than a year ago.</blockquote>Rothgar normally I am a big supporter of you, but this is one time I have to go by my feelings. EQ2X has got to have had a influence on this change. The graphic effects requirements almost had to be lowered to allow low and mid ranged boxes to respond well in a high spell effects area in eq2ex. I run a I7-980X with a Nvidia Fermi GTX480 in extreme quality on eq2live, during raids I had to dial down the affects to get decent frame rate, I raided for the first time after the GU and at the end of it realized I never changed the graphic settings to my raid loadout.Granted this is a opinion since no one is privy to any of the development discusions that are held, but it just seems coincidental that the spell effects where greatly dimished in correlation with the release of the f2p model. tinhat thought are not, the coincidence factor is there.</blockquote>And this is a bad thing?

Ulrazaj

08-29-2010, 06:35 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>rwiz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes SOE can maintain two spell sets. But they don't want to do it.WHY?Because, GU57's spell effect is made for EQ2X.For EQ2X,spell effect should be change by it's grade, and it become motivation to grade up EQ2X's account rank. (Spell rank differs by account : Bronze - Adept , Silver - Expert , Gold - All ranks.)Old good spell effect is thrown away because of EQ2X !</blockquote>I'm not sure where you got your information, but this is all incorrect. Spell effects are upgraded with the spell tier; Apprentice, Journeyman, Adept, Expert, Master. This has nothing to do with EQ2X. The modifications to the spell effects were started more than a year ago.</blockquote>And its coincidence that one of the "features" of the subscription plans on EQ2X is the ability to upgrade spells to higher tiers, and with that, increased visual effects...? Going to be a tough sell to convince me this wasn't the plan all along.

Dasein

08-29-2010, 07:27 PM

<cite>Ulrazaj wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>rwiz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes SOE can maintain two spell sets. But they don't want to do it.WHY?Because, GU57's spell effect is made for EQ2X.For EQ2X,spell effect should be change by it's grade, and it become motivation to grade up EQ2X's account rank. (Spell rank differs by account : Bronze - Adept , Silver - Expert , Gold - All ranks.)Old good spell effect is thrown away because of EQ2X !</blockquote>I'm not sure where you got your information, but this is all incorrect. Spell effects are upgraded with the spell tier; Apprentice, Journeyman, Adept, Expert, Master. This has nothing to do with EQ2X. The modifications to the spell effects were started more than a year ago.</blockquote>And its coincidence that one of the "features" of the subscription plans on EQ2X is the ability to upgrade spells to higher tiers, and with that, increased visual effects...? Going to be a tough sell to convince me this wasn't the plan all along.</blockquote>Why? It seems that in both cases, it's simply a logical extension of the spell tier system.

Ephigy

08-29-2010, 07:38 PM

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ulrazaj wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>rwiz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes SOE can maintain two spell sets. But they don't want to do it.WHY?Because, GU57's spell effect is made for EQ2X.For EQ2X,spell effect should be change by it's grade, and it become motivation to grade up EQ2X's account rank. (Spell rank differs by account : Bronze - Adept , Silver - Expert , Gold - All ranks.)Old good spell effect is thrown away because of EQ2X !</blockquote>I'm not sure where you got your information, but this is all incorrect. Spell effects are upgraded with the spell tier; Apprentice, Journeyman, Adept, Expert, Master. This has nothing to do with EQ2X. The modifications to the spell effects were started more than a year ago.</blockquote>And its coincidence that one of the "features" of the subscription plans on EQ2X is the ability to upgrade spells to higher tiers, and with that, increased visual effects...? Going to be a tough sell to convince me this wasn't the plan all along.</blockquote>Why? It seems that in both cases, it's simply a logical extension of the spell tier system.</blockquote>Then what is the "logical" reason for this change?

isest

08-29-2010, 08:23 PM

<cite>Ephigy@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ulrazaj wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>rwiz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes SOE can maintain two spell sets. But they don't want to do it.WHY?Because, GU57's spell effect is made for EQ2X.For EQ2X,spell effect should be change by it's grade, and it become motivation to grade up EQ2X's account rank. (Spell rank differs by account : Bronze - Adept , Silver - Expert , Gold - All ranks.)Old good spell effect is thrown away because of EQ2X !</blockquote>I'm not sure where you got your information, but this is all incorrect. Spell effects are upgraded with the spell tier; Apprentice, Journeyman, Adept, Expert, Master. This has nothing to do with EQ2X. The modifications to the spell effects were started more than a year ago.</blockquote>And its coincidence that one of the "features" of the subscription plans on EQ2X is the ability to upgrade spells to higher tiers, and with that, increased visual effects...? Going to be a tough sell to convince me this wasn't the plan all along.</blockquote>Why? It seems that in both cases, it's simply a logical extension of the spell tier system.</blockquote>Then what is the "logical" reason for this change?</blockquote>It is called deductive reasoning. You eliminate everything else and when your done your left with the answer. Telling me these changes were being worked on for a year, yea right!! Anybody with half a brain can see that gu57 was due to eq2 extended.Homes - Watson what do you see?Watson - The stars are nice and the moon is beautiful.Homes - Watson you idiot they stolen our tent.

DiotrumFGK

08-29-2010, 08:25 PM

So I've read about half the posts and people are missing the main question at hand... Why make game changing mechanic changes 75% of the way through the current expansion? Regardless of the FTP crap, this just wasn't required.Although zerks will rage (as always), this is what should have happened:- Fix the zerker regen so they aren't completely invulnerable. Do this in a way that doesn't screw every other fighter class.- Continue to adjust caster DPS in BGs as they went from OP to worthless- Fix the lag issues with open zone contested in SF. It's ridiculous and totally ignored. Anyone who hasn't already /wrists from that fight has considered it.- Revamp Ranger DPS, but not in a manner that is just going to further the gap between assassine's and the other scout classes... as you are working on test now. Also, consider what those changes will do to a mythical zerker.- Update Guardian DPS and Aggro control to be in line with other classes. The lack of AE dmg in an expac that is full of AE encounters make them look ridiculous on parses. Giving them more aggro does little to fix this.- Laster, absolute lastly... make graphic adjustments. People have put of with subpar spell effects since beta, why change now? Nobody cares and it only pisses people off that dev time is used to work on something so trivial.But more than anything, don't change the rules mid-stream. The mechanics that were in place were left in place long enough to kill everything in game outside RT4R and wing 3 of the Hole, it's too late. Work on the game mechanic issues like lag and put every single bit of extra manpower toward the expac coming in Feb.

Wingrider01

08-29-2010, 08:53 PM

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wingrider01 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>rwiz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes SOE can maintain two spell sets. But they don't want to do it.WHY?Because, GU57's spell effect is made for EQ2X.For EQ2X,spell effect should be change by it's grade, and it become motivation to grade up EQ2X's account rank. (Spell rank differs by account : Bronze - Adept , Silver - Expert , Gold - All ranks.)Old good spell effect is thrown away because of EQ2X !</blockquote>I'm not sure where you got your information, but this is all incorrect. Spell effects are upgraded with the spell tier; Apprentice, Journeyman, Adept, Expert, Master. This has nothing to do with EQ2X. The modifications to the spell effects were started more than a year ago.</blockquote>Rothgar normally I am a big supporter of you, but this is one time I have to go by my feelings. EQ2X has got to have had a influence on this change. The graphic effects requirements almost had to be lowered to allow low and mid ranged boxes to respond well in a high spell effects area in eq2ex. I run a I7-980X with a Nvidia Fermi GTX480 in extreme quality on eq2live, during raids I had to dial down the affects to get decent frame rate, I raided for the first time after the GU and at the end of it realized I never changed the graphic settings to my raid loadout.Granted this is a opinion since no one is privy to any of the development discusions that are held, but it just seems coincidental that the spell effects where greatly dimished in correlation with the release of the f2p model. tinhat thought are not, the coincidence factor is there.</blockquote>And this is a bad thing?</blockquote>If I want WOW level graphics, I will play WOW.

Wingrider01

08-29-2010, 08:57 PM

<cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wingrider01 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>rwiz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes SOE can maintain two spell sets. But they don't want to do it.WHY?Because, GU57's spell effect is made for EQ2X.For EQ2X,spell effect should be change by it's grade, and it become motivation to grade up EQ2X's account rank. (Spell rank differs by account : Bronze - Adept , Silver - Expert , Gold - All ranks.)Old good spell effect is thrown away because of EQ2X !</blockquote>I'm not sure where you got your information, but this is all incorrect. Spell effects are upgraded with the spell tier; Apprentice, Journeyman, Adept, Expert, Master. This has nothing to do with EQ2X. The modifications to the spell effects were started more than a year ago.</blockquote>Rothgar normally I am a big supporter of you, but this is one time I have to go by my feelings. EQ2X has got to have had a influence on this change. The graphic effects requirements almost had to be lowered to allow low and mid ranged boxes to respond well in a high spell effects area in eq2ex. I run a I7-980X with a Nvidia Fermi GTX480 in extreme quality on eq2live, during raids I had to dial down the affects to get decent frame rate, I raided for the first time after the GU and at the end of it realized I never changed the graphic settings to my raid loadout.Granted this is a opinion since no one is privy to any of the development discusions that are held, but it just seems coincidental that the spell effects where greatly dimished in correlation with the release of the f2p model. tinhat thought are not, the coincidence factor is there.</blockquote>And without any evidence otherwise, it's just that; a coincidence, and not evidence. Put the tin foil hats away, people. You're grasping at straws.</blockquote>the evidence is there, the only thing is question is why it was done, granted it is all speculation, but deductive reasoning can pretty well give a valid answer to it - would this have happened it eq2x was not pushed out? Maybe, or maybe not.I will leave the tinfoil hats to those that assume things has changed becasue they parse 4 percent lower after a patch and scream nerf. Only going by visual evidence and deductive reasoning. Over all this release was very underwhelming in quality and quantity.

Dreyco

08-29-2010, 11:28 PM

<cite>Wingrider01 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wingrider01 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>rwiz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes SOE can maintain two spell sets. But they don't want to do it.WHY?Because, GU57's spell effect is made for EQ2X.For EQ2X,spell effect should be change by it's grade, and it become motivation to grade up EQ2X's account rank. (Spell rank differs by account : Bronze - Adept , Silver - Expert , Gold - All ranks.)Old good spell effect is thrown away because of EQ2X !</blockquote>I'm not sure where you got your information, but this is all incorrect. Spell effects are upgraded with the spell tier; Apprentice, Journeyman, Adept, Expert, Master. This has nothing to do with EQ2X. The modifications to the spell effects were started more than a year ago.</blockquote>Rothgar normally I am a big supporter of you, but this is one time I have to go by my feelings. EQ2X has got to have had a influence on this change. The graphic effects requirements almost had to be lowered to allow low and mid ranged boxes to respond well in a high spell effects area in eq2ex. I run a I7-980X with a Nvidia Fermi GTX480 in extreme quality on eq2live, during raids I had to dial down the affects to get decent frame rate, I raided for the first time after the GU and at the end of it realized I never changed the graphic settings to my raid loadout.Granted this is a opinion since no one is privy to any of the development discusions that are held, but it just seems coincidental that the spell effects where greatly dimished in correlation with the release of the f2p model. tinhat thought are not, the coincidence factor is there.</blockquote>And without any evidence otherwise, it's just that; a coincidence, and not evidence. Put the tin foil hats away, people. You're grasping at straws.</blockquote>the evidence is there, the only thing is question is why it was done, granted it is all speculation, but deductive reasoning can pretty well give a valid answer to it - would this have happened it eq2x was not pushed out? Maybe, or maybe not.I will leave the tinfoil hats to those that assume things has changed becasue they parse 4 percent lower after a patch and scream nerf. Only going by visual evidence and deductive reasoning. Over all this release was very underwhelming in quality and quantity.</blockquote>No. it's not evidence. Evidence is hard conclusive data that shows that something is the case and can be affirmitively stated. What you're making is a speculation. It is nothing more than a guess, and it doesn't have a lot of basis aside from the coincidence that the F2P entered soft launch at the same time the particles were released.If I used the same "evidence" that people do here in my Psych research, not only would I more than likely lose my right to do research, i'd get kicked out of the department, if not expelled.Just because you say it enough does not make it true.

Vortexelemental

08-30-2010, 12:59 AM

<cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote>No. it's not evidence. Evidence is hard conclusive data that shows that something is the case and can be affirmitively stated. What you're making is a speculation. It is nothing more than a guess, and it doesn't have a lot of basis aside from the coincidence that the F2P entered soft launch at the same time the particles were released.If I used the same "evidence" that people do here in my Psych research, not only would I more than likely lose my right to do research, i'd get kicked out of the department, if not expelled.Just because you say it enough does not make it true.</blockquote>What evidence do you have against it?You may say that we have no evidence but neither do you.So it's essentially pointless in both aspects.Which means it's all a matter of perspective.I see this update as a 90% waste of time.Arguing for the sake of arguing is silly.

Ralpmet

08-30-2010, 01:28 AM

He's not the one trying to make an accusation, you are. He doesn't need evidence, you do.That's how life works.

Carthr

08-30-2010, 01:40 AM

<cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite><blockquote>He's not the one trying to make an accusation, you are. He doesn't need evidence, you do.That's how life works.</blockquote>How life works is this: You pay x amount a month with the expectation of "such and such".. And when "such and such" isn't provided, you stop paying "x" amount..4 more days on my account.. I know the dev's, Smokeblower, and the mods will be happy to see me leave.. And I'm happy to not chip in for their wages, since I don't believe for a second that they've done anything to earn them

Vortexelemental

08-30-2010, 01:50 AM

<cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite><blockquote>He's not the one trying to make an accusation, you are. He doesn't need evidence, you do.That's how life works.</blockquote>I don't need any evidence because I don't care if you believe me.You are making the assumption that I've ever believed SoE to be respectable as a whole as true.I haven't. I could list any sort of evidence you want, but frankly my dear...I don't give a [Removed for Content] <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I believe SoE is going the wrong direction and couldn't care less if anyone agreed.

Dreyco

08-30-2010, 02:01 AM

<cite>Vortexelemental@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote>No. it's not evidence. Evidence is hard conclusive data that shows that something is the case and can be affirmitively stated. What you're making is a speculation. It is nothing more than a guess, and it doesn't have a lot of basis aside from the coincidence that the F2P entered soft launch at the same time the particles were released.If I used the same "evidence" that people do here in my Psych research, not only would I more than likely lose my right to do research, i'd get kicked out of the department, if not expelled.Just because you say it enough does not make it true.</blockquote>What evidence do you have against it?You may say that we have no evidence but neither do you.So it's essentially pointless in both aspects.Which means it's all a matter of perspective.I see this update as a 90% waste of time.Arguing for the sake of arguing is silly.</blockquote>IE:People like me, who are unhappy, are going to believe it just because we want to believe it; even without any evidence whatsoever, just because it gives some supposed, magical credibility to what we are already grasping straws for.You guys want credibility to your argument? That's not the way to get it.Enough is enough people. Posting something over and over and over again does not make it true, or more valid.

Vortexelemental

08-30-2010, 02:07 AM

<cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vortexelemental@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote>No. it's not evidence. Evidence is hard conclusive data that shows that something is the case and can be affirmitively stated. What you're making is a speculation. It is nothing more than a guess, and it doesn't have a lot of basis aside from the coincidence that the F2P entered soft launch at the same time the particles were released.If I used the same "evidence" that people do here in my Psych research, not only would I more than likely lose my right to do research, i'd get kicked out of the department, if not expelled.Just because you say it enough does not make it true.</blockquote>What evidence do you have against it?You may say that we have no evidence but neither do you.So it's essentially pointless in both aspects.Which means it's all a matter of perspective.I see this update as a 90% waste of time.Arguing for the sake of arguing is silly.</blockquote>IE:People like me, who are unhappy, are going to believe it just because we want to believe it; even without any evidence whatsoever, just because it gives some supposed, magical credibility to what we are already grasping straws for.You guys want credibility to your argument? That's not the way to get it.Enough is enough people. Posting something over and over and over again does not make it true, or more valid.</blockquote>Giggle.Anaylzing my post for my *true* purpose?I really just don't care, I gave up on SoE long ago.You don't have to believe me, and I don't certainly have to believe you.I feel this update sucked. I'm giving SoE one more chance to redeem themselves then I am gone. That's all there is to it.

Rothgar

08-30-2010, 05:08 AM

<cite>drakkenshield wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>rwiz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes SOE can maintain two spell sets. But they don't want to do it.WHY?Because, GU57's spell effect is made for EQ2X.For EQ2X,spell effect should be change by it's grade, and it become motivation to grade up EQ2X's account rank. (Spell rank differs by account : Bronze - Adept , Silver - Expert , Gold - All ranks.)Old good spell effect is thrown away because of EQ2X !</blockquote>I'm not sure where you got your information, but this is all incorrect. Spell effects are upgraded with the spell tier; Apprentice, Journeyman, Adept, Expert, Master. This has nothing to do with EQ2X. The modifications to the spell effects were started more than a year ago.</blockquote>He gets his information from people like you... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />Seriously... this is how EQ2 extended works: you get certain levels of things based on how much you pay, and yes that does include different levels of spell effects. I think he just stated it incorrectly. I'm not saying that's WHY this was done, but that is the net effect so its natural for people to make that assumption.As far as you starting these FX changes a year ago... not sure what to say. They are very poor quality so why did it take a year?Or do you mean you started writing a new FX engine or something like that?I'm sure it was not intended, but what you are saying here can only make people even more upset, at least without more detail.</blockquote>I assure you that the reason the spell effects get better with tier isn't to upsell EQ2X. Its because we wanted you to be able to tell if someone had a master version of the spell by seeing the effect.I never said it took them a year to do the spell effects, just that they started it over a year ago. I only brought it up to prove the point that it had nothing to do with EQ2X.

Rothgar

08-30-2010, 05:20 AM

<cite>Wingrider01 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>rwiz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes SOE can maintain two spell sets. But they don't want to do it.WHY?Because, GU57's spell effect is made for EQ2X.For EQ2X,spell effect should be change by it's grade, and it become motivation to grade up EQ2X's account rank. (Spell rank differs by account : Bronze - Adept , Silver - Expert , Gold - All ranks.)Old good spell effect is thrown away because of EQ2X !</blockquote>I'm not sure where you got your information, but this is all incorrect. Spell effects are upgraded with the spell tier; Apprentice, Journeyman, Adept, Expert, Master. This has nothing to do with EQ2X. The modifications to the spell effects were started more than a year ago.</blockquote>Rothgar normally I am a big supporter of you, but this is one time I have to go by my feelings. EQ2X has got to have had a influence on this change. The graphic effects requirements almost had to be lowered to allow low and mid ranged boxes to respond well in a high spell effects area in eq2ex. I run a I7-980X with a Nvidia Fermi GTX480 in extreme quality on eq2live, during raids I had to dial down the affects to get decent frame rate, I raided for the first time after the GU and at the end of it realized I never changed the graphic settings to my raid loadout.Granted this is a opinion since no one is privy to any of the development discusions that are held, but it just seems coincidental that the spell effects where greatly dimished in correlation with the release of the f2p model. tinhat thought are not, the coincidence factor is there.</blockquote>First off, I really appreciate your support. However, I don't know what else I can say to convince you that it was just a coincidence. I guess with 3-month updates, there are going to be more coincidences with things getting lumped together a little more. Regardless, if the spell effect changes were made because of EQ2X, I'd tell you that. I don't make it a habit of getting on the forums and lying to people. My personal integrity would have me not post at all before posting a lie.I'm sure the artists have no problems looking at the spell effect feedback and making changes. The goal of the revamp was to make the effects have more meaning. This was done by using symbols to represent certain types of buffs and by improving the quality of the affect with the tier of the spell. An alternate purpose of the revamp was to reduce the "fireworks" effect that you often get in groups and raids. In large combats you often had to turn off spell effects all together or it became a big mess of particles that killed your frame rate. With the changes, you should be able to leave them on without hurting performance as much.Give us some time to look over the feedback and perhaps we can make some additional tweaks to the effects before the next game update.

Odys

08-30-2010, 06:37 AM

Indeed i like the new effects, they are lighter and so now i can turn performance in raid and see AOes, as example for the first mob of the Laboratory i see the area of effect and i can go back toward the beast as soon as it is gone.I like also the animation and vissual of my mystic group ward. The new spell effect are an improvement, and if i was given the choice i would use the new one rather than the old ones.Not all is negative, thanks rothar too for implementing the trick that you proposed to use "Port to the panda" from a bag, it would be nice if we could do that with the mask of the deceiver, or the fishbone earing (or any " fun " item).What is missing is a customizable raid UI, it's not too hard to have one independant object per raid member, and to be able to custom its size and shape, and the action you can perform on it. That would be the post 90 way to do it.What is irritating is the forced presence of SC everywhere, many players would like to ignore it.What is missing is new content and work on class balance.You should collect the number of betrayal : ranger->assassin, mystic->defiler , illusionist-> coercer, it should probably proves that something in the current mecanic is wrong. My mystic is doing ok, we have rangers doing fine, but they would probably be better as defiler and assassins.

Dasein

08-30-2010, 08:23 AM

<cite>Ephigy@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ulrazaj wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>rwiz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes SOE can maintain two spell sets. But they don't want to do it.WHY?Because, GU57's spell effect is made for EQ2X.For EQ2X,spell effect should be change by it's grade, and it become motivation to grade up EQ2X's account rank. (Spell rank differs by account : Bronze - Adept , Silver - Expert , Gold - All ranks.)Old good spell effect is thrown away because of EQ2X !</blockquote>I'm not sure where you got your information, but this is all incorrect. Spell effects are upgraded with the spell tier; Apprentice, Journeyman, Adept, Expert, Master. This has nothing to do with EQ2X. The modifications to the spell effects were started more than a year ago.</blockquote>And its coincidence that one of the "features" of the subscription plans on EQ2X is the ability to upgrade spells to higher tiers, and with that, increased visual effects...? Going to be a tough sell to convince me this wasn't the plan all along.</blockquote>Why? It seems that in both cases, it's simply a logical extension of the spell tier system.</blockquote>Then what is the "logical" reason for this change?</blockquote>For spell effects, I suspect the underlying logic was to increase game performance, while also providing some visual indication of spell tier advancement. Spell tiers themselves have been in the game since it launched, so having two different mechanics (spell visual effects and EQ2x) both take advantage of them is hardly surprising.

archikauri

08-30-2010, 08:50 AM

All new effet for warlock is hidous, all for brigand is hidous.We can't use all effect in raid because performance downing and effect of over class are hidous to.Apparently, you don't want make rollback or give the possibility to use older spell effect... (Why ?)My question is :How can we remove all the effects of the game because we prefer playing without the new effects?for the moment we can't...

Kesslaar

08-30-2010, 08:59 AM

One thing that has been added that I like is there seems to be some new sound effects added to spells on my Trouby, one spell seems to play the battledrums from original Thunderbirds puppet movies and another sounds like the Horn of Gondor from LOTR.Still waiting for the "default" blue UI fixes to be implemented...

Kvalme

08-30-2010, 09:04 AM

Hello. I'm sorry if this question was already posted, but it's hard to dig trought all of this 46 pages. In the lastest update was changed the way on which new spells appears on hobar: If a new spell is a newer version of an old spell on your hotbar it will replace the older version rather than adding a new button on your hotbar. After this change i have a strange problem on hotbar. When i have new spell that is poorly then one i already have - this spell drops into random position on hotbar. For example. I have Dark Kinght. I have two panels - #2 and #3. On the sencond position of #2 - i have agro, on the second position of #3 i have attack stance. My attack stance is Master level. When i have new attack stance it's poorly then that i have and it places on the 2-nd bar replacing my Agro! This problems happens very often on all of classes. Some times even when i learn master book of spell - i have it placed somewhere on hotbar and need to look on "what was replaced at this time?", since all 9 of panels are totally full.

Wingrider01

08-30-2010, 09:10 AM

<cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite><blockquote>He's not the one trying to make an accusation, you are. He doesn't need evidence, you do.That's how life works.</blockquote>see now here is the error in your reasoning - YOU are calling it an accusation when in all actuality it is speculation, the only hard evidence is the effects have changed, this is visually proven, the rest is speculation - aka what if. As for the one that wants hard evidence - you have it, cast a spell, the reset was specualtion and even in a class speculation does not require "hard evidence", so no, nothing needs to be proven to you except what you can visually see, that is the evidence they where changed.

Fistantantilus

08-30-2010, 10:40 AM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite> </cite>I assure you that the reason the spell effects get better with tier isn't to upsell EQ2X. Its because we wanted you to be able to tell if someone had a master version of the spell by seeing the effect.I never said it took them a year to do the spell effects, just that they started it over a year ago. I only brought it up to prove the point that it had nothing to do with EQ2X.</blockquote>Ok I understand that you need to differentiate the spell effects based on their tier.Then please explain me why my sk's and my warden's master spells look horrible ? Could you please also explain me why when I cast a spell I want to throw the speakers out of the window because someone was tearing paper when they were recording the spell effects sounds.Ok so you don't want to revert to the previous spells. Can we at least have an option to disable all spell effects ? I prefer to play a game without spell effects at all over having this abomination.Besides the way spell effects are right now (even at their master versions for my toons) , with or without spell effects there will be no difference at all :pthx :p

Alvane

08-30-2010, 12:06 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I assure you that the reason the spell effects get better with tier isn't to upsell EQ2X. Its because we wanted you to be able to tell if someone had a master version of the spell by seeing the effect.I never said it took them a year to do the spell effects, just that they started it over a year ago. I only brought it up to prove the point that it had nothing to do with EQ2X.</blockquote>I remember when the devs finally changed the warden tree to a bush! It was a 100% better spell effect. One of the biggest complaints peeps had during raids was spell lag and frame rate. Constantly resetting particle effects and number of spells for animation effects to a lower level helped, but at the same time, one lost the visual effects.The changes of spell animations/effects have also changed the spell lag and FR for the good. Peeps are always going to try to find fault with SoE. It's in their mind and there is no way of changing that type of thinking.

Alvane

08-30-2010, 12:10 PM

<cite>archikauri wrote:</cite><blockquote>All new effet for warlock is hidous, all for brigand is hidous.We can't use all effect in raid because performance downing and effect of over class are hidous to.Apparently, you don't want make rollback or give the possibility to use older spell effect... (Why ?)My question is :How can we remove all the effects of the game because we prefer playing without the new effects?</blockquote>No rollback only Wally-mart does rollback! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - the new spell effect has lessened the problems with spell lag and FR. Prior to that, there was plenty of spell lag and FR problems in raids. Most all of us had to turn down the effects and it helped somewhat.I'm surprised you don't know how to do that because it's the same method used with the prior spell effects and the answer to your question.If you do not want any visual effects - go to options under UI, and decrease the particle effects and also the number of spells to be visual. That should make you very happy since you prefer not to have any.

drakkenshie

08-30-2010, 12:45 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I assure you that the reason the spell effects get better with tier isn't to upsell EQ2X. Its because we wanted you to be able to tell if someone had a master version of the spell by seeing the effect.I never said it took them a year to do the spell effects, just that they started it over a year ago. I only brought it up to prove the point that it had nothing to do with EQ2X.</blockquote>For the record, I don't really know why you did the FX change, I just know they aren't very good and what I see is so far a pretty heavy contradiction to what you and SoE in general has been saying.No offense, but the results don't match the statements, and that's my point.Better communication would help, it has so far been worse than usual for GU57.If the FX were planned to be slowly replaced with better versions, then why not just come out and say it instead of constantly posting that "they new FX are better and have feature XYZ" when it was so obviously not true, or if that offense you: then so obviously not recognizable by the vast majority of the users here.It looks like you put out largely placeholder effects, and are slowly adding better ones. If that's true, why not just say that from the start?If it isn't true then, heh... that's a whole 'nother well covered thread <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />-------------Aside from all that: I personally rather see the same effect regardless of level. The new effects are already all too similar looking and I can't tell what is being cast any more, except where you put all effects back to more like they used to be.I don't care what *LEVEL* my conjuror friend is casting, I just need to know she just fired off a big aggro magnet so I can counter it.

drakkenshie

08-30-2010, 01:04 PM

<cite>Alvane@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I remember when the devs finally changed the warden tree to a bush! It was a 100% better spell effect. One of the biggest complaints peeps had during raids was spell lag and frame rate. Constantly resetting particle effects and number of spells for animation effects to a lower level helped, but at the same time, one lost the visual effects.The changes of spell animations/effects have also changed the spell lag and FR for the good. Peeps are always going to try to find fault with SoE. It's in their mind and there is no way of changing that type of thinking.</blockquote>Personally, my frame rate is lower now in RAID and the more colorful groups.The FX quality is lower and so is performance, and this seems true for most people, including guild mates and pretty much all of my friends.On a _Few_ classes, the new stuff is an improvement, but my overall performance is lower now so that makesit hard to buy the argument it was done for performance.I am very happy to see most of the spell effects reverting back to what they were.In particular I'd like to thank the devs for the following:- making the wizard ice shield the falling rings again instead of that awful cube- making the paladin pull ward a sword stab and color instead of squatting and cowering- the ground effect of conjuror earthquake is very nice, but the rocks falling upward and looking like plastic is not...and so on.

isest

08-30-2010, 05:01 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wingrider01 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>rwiz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes SOE can maintain two spell sets. But they don't want to do it.WHY?Because, GU57's spell effect is made for EQ2X.For EQ2X,spell effect should be change by it's grade, and it become motivation to grade up EQ2X's account rank. (Spell rank differs by account : Bronze - Adept , Silver - Expert , Gold - All ranks.)Old good spell effect is thrown away because of EQ2X !</blockquote>I'm not sure where you got your information, but this is all incorrect. Spell effects are upgraded with the spell tier; Apprentice, Journeyman, Adept, Expert, Master. This has nothing to do with EQ2X. The modifications to the spell effects were started more than a year ago.</blockquote>Rothgar normally I am a big supporter of you, but this is one time I have to go by my feelings. EQ2X has got to have had a influence on this change. The graphic effects requirements almost had to be lowered to allow low and mid ranged boxes to respond well in a high spell effects area in eq2ex. I run a I7-980X with a Nvidia Fermi GTX480 in extreme quality on eq2live, during raids I had to dial down the affects to get decent frame rate, I raided for the first time after the GU and at the end of it realized I never changed the graphic settings to my raid loadout.Granted this is a opinion since no one is privy to any of the development discusions that are held, but it just seems coincidental that the spell effects where greatly dimished in correlation with the release of the f2p model. tinhat thought are not, the coincidence factor is there.</blockquote>First off, I really appreciate your support. However, I don't know what else I can say to convince you that it was just a coincidence. I guess with 3-month updates, there are going to be more coincidences with things getting lumped together a little more. Regardless, if the spell effect changes were made because of EQ2X, I'd tell you that. I don't make it a habit of getting on the forums and lying to people. My personal integrity would have me not post at all before posting a lie.I'm sure the artists have no problems looking at the spell effect feedback and making changes. The goal of the revamp was to make the effects have more meaning. This was done by using symbols to represent certain types of buffs and by improving the quality of the affect with the tier of the spell. An alternate purpose of the revamp was to reduce the "fireworks" effect that you often get in groups and raids. In large combats you often had to turn off spell effects all together or it became a big mess of particles that killed your frame rate. With the changes, you should be able to leave them on without hurting performance as much.Give us some time to look over the feedback and perhaps we can make some additional tweaks to the effects before the next game update.</blockquote> More meaningful????? Have you looked at the SK Aoe's. It is very hard now to tell the cone of effect on an aoe. They are really not meaningful at all now.For the most part I gotten use to the spells. However my trouby is still sad with no music notes flying around. My Warklock who has a master rift looks like he is tossing pebbles at the mob. My wizards is happy she got her ice shield back.Seriously more meaningful, I will politely disagree.

archikauri

08-31-2010, 01:28 AM

<cite>Alvane@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>archikauri wrote:</cite><blockquote>All new effet for warlock is hidous, all for brigand is hidous.We can't use all effect in raid because performance downing and effect of over class are hidous to.Apparently, you don't want make rollback or give the possibility to use older spell effect... (Why ?)My question is :How can we remove all the effects of the game because we prefer playing without the new effects?</blockquote>No rollback only Wally-mart does rollback! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> - the new spell effect has lessened the problems with spell lag and FR. Prior to that, there was plenty of spell lag and FR problems in raids. Most all of us had to turn down the effects and it helped somewhat.I'm surprised you don't know how to do that because it's the same method used with the prior spell effects and the answer to your question.If you do not want any visual effects - go to options under UI, and decrease the particle effects and also the number of spells to be visual. That should make you very happy since you prefer not to have any.</blockquote>I have playing in raid with full option and we continues to lag but now spell are hidous !My processor is an i7 860 with 4Go of Ram and Seven x64. Why with her revamp Graphic card is not used ???It's not possible to remove all spell. We have no option for this. We can reduce but not remove.Ps : sorry for my english i'm not american <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Vortexelemental

08-31-2010, 02:07 AM

I think it's safe to say that LU 57 is the worst update in the life of the game.The things that were good are so far overshadowed by problems and sheer silly ideas that it's almost not worth mentioning them all.

Whilhelmina

08-31-2010, 08:44 AM

I haven't posted yet in this thread, 'cause I already said everything in the in-testing feedback thread and nobody listened...So.. Feedback...Pros :<ul><li>New tradeskill quests are great. As usual, Domino did a wonderfull job. She's the best and she should give some clues to everyone else on "how to listen to your playerbase without giving them evrything they're asking but still making a wonderfull job of it".</li><li>windows that can be moved on F10 mode</li></ul>Cons :<ul><li>The new UI sucks. The colour is aggressive for a lot of players. The SC everywher was not needed. the option to switch back to blue is not a real option as it's not the real blue. The new exp bar was not needed and is intrusive. The default Character window on C is a pain. The welcome screen cannot be desactivated. EQ2 button disappeared. SC on merchant window... Nothing good anywhere.</li><li>SC items on regular merchant is offensive</li><li>New spells effects are awfull, hideous, wathever. GIVE US A SWITCH !</li><li>SOGA models as default is a ridiculous idea</li><li>No content except for some starter quests (and the marvellous TS quests of course)</li><li>The travel system in KoS is awfull too. Where are our nice cloud rides?</li><li>You don't respect your custommers !</li></ul>btw, I put up a bunch of the old UI files on EQ2 interface if you want to revert everything that can be reverted... <a href="http://www.eq2interface.com/downloads/info5002-pre-GU57UIpieces.html" target="_blank">here's the link</a>.

Pervis

08-31-2010, 09:52 AM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>First off, I really appreciate your support. However, I don't know what else I can say to convince you that it was just a coincidence. I guess with 3-month updates, there are going to be more coincidences with things getting lumped together a little more. Regardless, if the spell effect changes were made because of EQ2X, I'd tell you that. I don't make it a habit of getting on the forums and lying to people. My personal integrity would have me not post at all before posting a lie.</blockquote>Perception is reality.While it may not have been what was intended, what us players saw was an update that consisted of changes made specifically for EQ2X, and a spell revamp system. This was forced on us, dispite the fact that we KNOW there was class balance changes in the works, and at least one new heroic zone in the works.This means that at least to us, GU#57 was an update that did nothing but add EQ2X. It may not be the case from your side, but it is from ours, and as I said, perception is reality.Words will not change our reality, no matter who says them.The comment about 3 month updates and more coincidences... you need to actually put content and fixes in to updates in order for there to be any coincidences. This last one didn't have any.<blockquote>Give us some time to look over the feedback and perhaps we can make some additional tweaks to the effects before the next game update.</blockquote>My feedback for the spell effect revamp would be that I do not like it, because the effects are too simple. It reminds me of WoW. If I want to play a game with WoW style effects, I will play WoW. Try as you might (and have done in the past), no one does WoW better than WoW.Unfortunatly, I know that this piece of feedback, which is shared by many many others, will be ignored. Not so much because you want to ignore feedback, but because WoW-ifying the games visuals was the intention with this change. Listening to this one piece of feedback, and doing something to make the many many people that share this thought, would mean doing another total spell effects revamp, something that we all know you guys will not do.So essentially, these changes are being forced on us. We don't like them, but you will not undo them. You can not make "tweaks" to these effects to keep people happy, as it is the basics of the particle effects that we do not like.<blockquote>I never said it took them a year to do the spell effects, just that they started it over a year ago. I only brought it up to prove the point that it had nothing to do with EQ2X.</blockquote>The particle effect revamp was started over a year ago, but was not a years worth of work. Obviously, tha means they stopped working on it at some point.I would wager a good amount of money that the revamp was either started back up or given a hurry up in order to be ready for EQ2X. It may well have been a decision above your pay grade, but I would be shocked if it were an absolute coincdence that EQ2X and this revamp were the only things in the last update, after a year of work.

rwiz

08-31-2010, 10:30 AM

Hello,Rothgar. Please answer us these questions.1.WHY SOE don't want to give us 2(Old and New) spell set ? While SOGA is choosable,why not spells?2.WHY Spell effects don't grade up by Lv? While Summoner's pet's appearance grades up by Lv and tier.3.In EQ2X, Bronze rank player must have low spell effect (Max adept) From Lv1 to Lv 80. and this starts at GU57.What things does Bronze player think when he knows this thing?4.Did you count and total the feedback of GU57? Did you count how many opinions that hoping old spell effect?

Alvane

08-31-2010, 11:10 AM

<cite>Fistantantilus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite> </cite>I assure you that the reason the spell effects get better with tier isn't to upsell EQ2X. Its because we wanted you to be able to tell if someone had a master version of the spell by seeing the effect.I never said it took them a year to do the spell effects, just that they started it over a year ago. I only brought it up to prove the point that it had nothing to do with EQ2X.</blockquote>Ok I understand that you need to differentiate the spell effects based on their tier.Then please explain me why my sk's and my warden's master spells look horrible ? Could you please also explain me why when I cast a spell I want to throw the speakers out of the window because someone was tearing paper when they were recording the spell effects sounds.Ok so you don't want to revert to the previous spells. Can we at least have an option to disable all spell effects ?</blockquote>What looks horrible to you, may look just fine to someone else. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.To change your spell effects, use your option, go to UI and change your particle effects as well as number of spells to be seen. While you are add it, change your sound, too. That should take care of everything you are concerned about.

Alenna

08-31-2010, 11:56 AM

<cite>Alvane@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Fistantantilus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite> </cite>I assure you that the reason the spell effects get better with tier isn't to upsell EQ2X. Its because we wanted you to be able to tell if someone had a master version of the spell by seeing the effect.I never said it took them a year to do the spell effects, just that they started it over a year ago. I only brought it up to prove the point that it had nothing to do with EQ2X.</blockquote>Ok I understand that you need to differentiate the spell effects based on their tier.Then please explain me why my sk's and my warden's master spells look horrible ? Could you please also explain me why when I cast a spell I want to throw the speakers out of the window because someone was tearing paper when they were recording the spell effects sounds.Ok so you don't want to revert to the previous spells. Can we at least have an option to disable all spell effects ?</blockquote>What looks horrible to you, may look just fine to someone else. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.To change your spell effects, use your option, go to UI and change your particle effects as well as number of spells to be seen. While you are add it, change your sound, too. That should take care of everything you are concerned about.</blockquote>my wizsrds wants her flaming blades that go around the target she is buffing back for her Ro's Blades spell she is fully mastered and the new effect is pathetic.

Antigua

08-31-2010, 03:23 PM

<cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote>No. it's not evidence. Evidence is hard conclusive data that shows that something is the case and can be affirmitively stated. What you're making is a speculation. It is nothing more than a guess, and it doesn't have a lot of basis aside from the coincidence that the F2P entered soft launch at the same time the particles were released.</blockquote>You seem to have "evidence" and "proof" confused.<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>First off, I really appreciate your support. However, I don't know what else I can say to convince you that it was just a coincidence. I guess with 3-month updates, there are going to be more coincidences with things getting lumped together a little more. Regardless, if the spell effect changes were made because of EQ2X, I'd tell you that. I don't make it a habit of getting on the forums and lying to people. My personal integrity would have me not post at all before posting a lie.</blockquote>You, personally, have not yet said anything to make me believe you are intentionally dishonest. That said, I've passed the point where I feel the EQ2 team as a whole is in any way trustworthy. Perhaps they didn't design the spell effects for Extended... perhaps they just came up with the idea of selling spells by level because you were already designing the effects. Perhaps they *did* intend all the work on the spell effects to be for Extended, and just kept it to themselves. Why wouldn't people who will blatantly lie to all of us not lie to you or each other?It is not your personal honesty in question here; but the fact that *any* of the team members *do* make a habit of getting on the forums and lying to people means we can't trust a word out of any of you. For all I know, you're telling us all this because one of your bosses said "Hey, Rothgar hasn't lied to anyone yet, the players will trust him, so get HIM out there selling our propaganda. Twist his arm if you need to, but get him out there."Absent the knowledge of where your personal integrity gives way to pragmatism, all we know for a fact is: If we cannot trust your bosses, we cannot trust you.

Draylore

08-31-2010, 03:40 PM

I just don't buy it.One thing ive learned in 20some years of software design and testing is that fews thing are "just a coincidence".GU57 was entirely an "pre-EQ2x" update.....that was put on the live servers.This was on purpose......who was responsible? who knows but to come in here and try to have us believe otherwise is pretty pathetic and just another indication that SOE doesnt really respect its long term customers.Another thing ive learned is the golden rule.......If its not broke leave it alone. This update and the subsequent "hot fixes" are full of example after example of that rule being ignored.Fool me once..........fool me twice ......... fool me.......starting to lose count.

Ephigy

08-31-2010, 04:45 PM

<cite>Alvane@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Fistantantilus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite> </cite>I assure you that the reason the spell effects get better with tier isn't to upsell EQ2X. Its because we wanted you to be able to tell if someone had a master version of the spell by seeing the effect.I never said it took them a year to do the spell effects, just that they started it over a year ago. I only brought it up to prove the point that it had nothing to do with EQ2X.</blockquote>Ok I understand that you need to differentiate the spell effects based on their tier.Then please explain me why my sk's and my warden's master spells look horrible ? Could you please also explain me why when I cast a spell I want to throw the speakers out of the window because someone was tearing paper when they were recording the spell effects sounds.Ok so you don't want to revert to the previous spells. Can we at least have an option to disable all spell effects ?</blockquote>What looks horrible to you, may look just fine to someone else. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.To change your spell effects, use your option, go to UI and change your particle effects as well as number of spells to be seen. While you are add it, change your sound, too. That should take care of everything you are concerned about.</blockquote>Do you really think that there would be 70-something pages of negative feedback if it were as simple as that to fix on the users end?

Leafle

08-31-2010, 04:51 PM

<cite>Draylore wrote:</cite><blockquote>One thing ive learned in 20some years of software design and testing is that fews thing are "just a coincidence".</blockquote>Agreed, and here's what most long time developers have to say about stuff like this:Occam's Razor: "The simplest explanation is most likely the correct one."

isest

08-31-2010, 05:13 PM

<cite>Leaflett wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Draylore wrote:</cite><blockquote>One thing ive learned in 20some years of software design and testing is that fews thing are "just a coincidence".</blockquote>Agreed, and here's what most long time developers have to say about stuff like this:Occam's Razor: "The simplest explanation is most likely the correct one."</blockquote>The sad thing about this after pages upon pages of negative feedback, all soe wants to do is give us lame excuse after lame excuse instead of going hey might might have got this wrong.

rwiz

09-01-2010, 08:26 AM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I assure you that the reason the spell effects get better with tier isn't to upsell EQ2X. Its because we wanted you to be able to tell if someone had a master version of the spell by seeing the effect.</blockquote>If someone shows a spell effect of master.It means that : "Wow he has a master spell ! but we cannot guess it's Lv...It might be Lv 90 or Lv 50 or Lv10.Anyway, he has a master spell . However, it is only it. In a certain thing, he is not bronze rank."

MurFalad

09-01-2010, 10:00 AM

My feedback on GU57 so far isGood<ul><li>F10 to move things on the interface, surprisingly nice</li><li>Automatic spell upgrades on cast bars, less time spent organising my cast bars, more gameplay.</li><li>Joined up flight paths, I really like this, if the route is lengthly I can now take a few minutes away from the screen too, it might sound odd but natural breaks like these are actually something I do appreciate.</li><li>Some of the new spell effects are nicer, overall in the fights I've been in I've actually been able to see what is going on which is a bonus since before it was blinding at times.</li><li>Fight heals no longer critting, not because I want any particular class nerfed, but because its the first change in months to go to fixing some of the game mechanic problems with the game. And while small one that actually restores some of the challenge that has been lacking since SF and the itemisation problems.</li><li>Tradeskill quests, a big improvement!</li></ul>Bad<ul><li>SC buttons, SC in game items, and marketplace heavy welcome screen make the game feel cheap. The UI overall does have some nice touches, but one rough spot, the coin symbols. Not sure why but some of them are just plain disks, the original ones with little designs look far better quality, with this changed and no change on the SC I'd rate it as indifferent on balance.</li><li>Lack of cloud mount movements in KoS loses some of the cinematic polish to the game, and makes it feel like I'm zoning more heavily.</li><li>Some of the new spell effects look unnecessarily low quality, things like chains coming out of the ground etc look preferable to just a green glow (and makes sense to standardise then the different roots so the player actually knows what's happening just from the spell effect). Overall I hope the spell effects get some more work.</li><li>Combat spell effects haven't been noticably improved, aurally its lacking still, I think the goal should be that I should know if I have parried (metal on metal clang!), blocked(thud!), dodged(swish!) just from looking and listening to the game, not browsing the combat log.</li><li>Shield bash for fighters no longer needing a shield, its a minor one but another decision a player needed to make removed which dumbs the game down and is the opposite direction to where I'd like to see things going.</li><li>Key remapping. This just annoys current players and I believe makes no improvement for new ones, I used to play WOW where I assume the keyboard mappings came from. However there you have a HUD from day one playing that game, so in the three years that I played it I never used keyboard shortcuts for any of the windows and I would expect this to be the common experience.</li><li>Default SOGA models. Bad mainly though because of the way they are integrated into the game, if there was instead a eastern/western button in the character create process while choosing the look of the character it would actually make sense, and encourage players to check out both looks (as an aside, I do not like most SOGA models, but I can see how some people can). </li></ul>Indifferent<ul><li>Flora, I love to see graphical improvements, this one is for speed and I guess has been an improvement for my laptop at least so its a positive indifferent... But its neither used the GPU or Multicore and not improved the quality of something in the game that should look so much better. I hope there are more ambitious plans for future graphical updates as we had with shader 3.0 and GPU shadows as improving the graphics has made the game feel new again.</li></ul>Overall I'm disappointed with GU57 as it didn't supply many of the things we wanted, it is focussed heavily on new players and adds very little for a current player, but more importantly many of the changes made lack the cinematic polish I'd associate with EQ2. It also does not go very far to fixing the big gameplay problems such as capped itemisation. I'd don't like being negative, and at least the gameplay seems to be getting looked at a bit more now, but here's to hoping the future GU's offer more gameplay improvements.

Raienya

09-01-2010, 11:25 AM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wingrider01 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>rwiz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes SOE can maintain two spell sets. But they don't want to do it.WHY?Because, GU57's spell effect is made for EQ2X.For EQ2X,spell effect should be change by it's grade, and it become motivation to grade up EQ2X's account rank. (Spell rank differs by account : Bronze - Adept , Silver - Expert , Gold - All ranks.)Old good spell effect is thrown away because of EQ2X !</blockquote>I'm not sure where you got your information, but this is all incorrect. Spell effects are upgraded with the spell tier; Apprentice, Journeyman, Adept, Expert, Master. This has nothing to do with EQ2X. The modifications to the spell effects were started more than a year ago.</blockquote>Rothgar normally I am a big supporter of you, but this is one time I have to go by my feelings. EQ2X has got to have had a influence on this change. The graphic effects requirements almost had to be lowered to allow low and mid ranged boxes to respond well in a high spell effects area in eq2ex. I run a I7-980X with a Nvidia Fermi GTX480 in extreme quality on eq2live, during raids I had to dial down the affects to get decent frame rate, I raided for the first time after the GU and at the end of it realized I never changed the graphic settings to my raid loadout.Granted this is a opinion since no one is privy to any of the development discusions that are held, but it just seems coincidental that the spell effects where greatly dimished in correlation with the release of the f2p model. tinhat thought are not, the coincidence factor is there.</blockquote>First off, I really appreciate your support. However, I don't know what else I can say to convince you that it was just a coincidence. I guess with 3-month updates, there are going to be more coincidences with things getting lumped together a little more. Regardless, if the spell effect changes were made because of EQ2X, I'd tell you that. I don't make it a habit of getting on the forums and lying to people. My personal integrity would have me not post at all before posting a lie.I'm sure the artists have no problems looking at the spell effect feedback and making changes. The goal of the revamp was to make the effects have more meaning. This was done by using symbols to represent certain types of buffs and by improving the quality of the affect with the tier of the spell. An alternate purpose of the revamp was to reduce the "fireworks" effect that you often get in groups and raids. In large combats you often had to turn off spell effects all together or it became a big mess of particles that killed your frame rate. With the changes, you should be able to leave them on without hurting performance as much.Give us some time to look over the feedback and perhaps we can make some additional tweaks to the effects before the next game update.</blockquote>Sorry, but you had plenty of time to "look over the feedback" while GU57 was on test. Twenty pages of mostly complaints about how bad the new spell effects are, yet they still went live.There were 40-odd pages of complaints about the new UI, and how terrible it is, and THAT still went live. THIS thread is 48 pages (at time of this post) long, mostly complaints about the entire GU....sensing a pattern here yet?The only decent thing about this GU is the work Domino put in on the lower level tradeskill quests. They were long overdue, and well done.It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that SOE made a huge mistake with this GU. Revert the spell effects back to what they were before the GU (and the xp bar with that hideously unnecessary SC button crammed in our faces), then go through the feedback and work on adjusting the spell effects from there.There have been dozens of posts in this very thread of long-time customers cancelling their accounts. How many more will it take before you people HEAR how dissatisfied your customer base is? My monthly account just renewed in the midst of this mess. I'll give SOE to the end of the month to fix this, or you can count six more accounts cancelled.

Alvane

09-01-2010, 11:47 AM

<cite>Draylore wrote:</cite><blockquote>I just don't buy it.One thing ive learned in 20some years of software design and testing is that fews thing are "just a coincidence".GU57 was entirely an "pre-EQ2x" update.....that was put on the live servers.</blockquote>Well, considering EQ2x isn't a separate game, but the same game as EQ2, this statement above is a no-brainer except for the word "entirely" since anything that's updated or hotfixed can pertain to one server and not another.PvP servers receive the same updates as live servers as do station exchange servers as do international servers including russian servers.There were many things on GU#57 that pertained to all servers regardless of their usage. If GU 57 was "entirely" for EQ2x and not for live nor PvP nor station exchange nor international including russian servers, then I presume the following were only for EQ2x server and not any others.Call of City spells properly apply on PvPVarious spell changes across the board getting rid of deadbeat stuff or moving them to the fluff dept and replacing it with useable spells. Some spells no longer require shields, symbols nor snare, etc. Some now have lower pwr or hp costs to cast or use.Some AAs have changed such as lifeburn cannot be dispelledHotfixes for many quests, for BG, and additional crafting quests for house items and advanced recipe books.Gorowyn had a remodeling job for easier getting around. Standardization of spell visuals for progression as well as possible elimination of some spell lag and increase of FR.But yea - GU 57 was "entirely and EQ2x update." So according to the logic presented PvP, live, international including russian servers, station exchange and even role playing server, all the items I listed above were solely for one server only. Yeah - right! I don't buy it either.

EQPrime

09-01-2010, 12:20 PM

<cite>Alvane@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Draylore wrote:</cite><blockquote>I just don't buy it.One thing ive learned in 20some years of software design and testing is that fews thing are "just a coincidence".GU57 was entirely an "pre-EQ2x" update.....that was put on the live servers.</blockquote>Well, considering EQ2x isn't a separate game, but the same game as EQ2, this statement above is a no-brainer except for the word "entirely" since anything that's updated or hotfixed can pertain to one server and not another.PvP servers receive the same updates as live servers as do station exchange servers as do international servers including russian servers.There were many things on GU#57 that pertained to all servers regardless of their usage. If GU 57 was "entirely" for EQ2x and not for live nor PvP nor station exchange nor international including russian servers, then I presume the following were only for EQ2x server and not any others.Call of City spells properly apply on PvP</blockquote>PvP means about as much to me as EQ2x. Plus this is something that should be in a hotfix, not a live update. Probably took one person about 2 minutes to fix.<blockquote>Various spell changes across the board getting rid of deadbeat stuff or moving them to the fluff dept and replacing it with useable spells. Some spells no longer require shields, symbols nor snare, etc. Some now have lower pwr or hp costs to cast or use.</blockquote>This was done for lowbies for the EQ2x crowd. This wasn't stuff the playerbase was looking for. I don't care about another nuke that costs more power and does less damage than anything else I already have.<blockquote>Some AAs have changed such as lifeburn cannot be dispelled</blockquote>Hmm ok I'll give you that minor change, as it probably took more than 2 or 3 minutes to fix (maybe). <blockquote>Hotfixes for many quests, for BG, and additional crafting quests for house items and advanced recipe books.</blockquote>The tradeskill quests have already been mentioned. The other stuff was just hotfixes which should be done weekly and not all rolled up as part of "content" in the live updates.<blockquote>Gorowyn had a remodeling job for easier getting around. Standardization of spell visuals for progression as well as possible elimination of some spell lag and increase of FR.</blockquote>More EQ2x changes. Any improvements to newbie areas are geared towards EQ2x. The spell effects are mostly garbage, at least for the templar spells I use, and were made to draw in more EQ2x people by helping make the game run better on crappy PCs. (It already ran fine on 5-year-old hardware as it was so this isn't really accomplishing too much.) Plus, on EQ2x people have to pay more to see the expert and master effects, though I don't know how the yellow glow I get from casting pretty much every spell could be any worse at apprentice, adept, or expert level.You can try to defend SOE as much as you want, but you're pretty naive if you don't see GU57 as being all about EQ2x. The game would have been better off if almost all of the "content" in this update were relegated to just the EQ2x servers instead of forced on the real servers.

CoLD MeTaL

09-01-2010, 04:27 PM

Can we have back the ability to scroll the 'maintained spells' window?

Anastasie

09-01-2010, 06:14 PM

<cite>CoLD MeTaL wrote:</cite><blockquote>Can we have back the ability to scroll the 'maintained spells' window?</blockquote>Definitely want to see this back - getting all the static buffs scrolled up and off the screen so you can actually see the procs in your maintained window is pretty vital.

archikauri

09-02-2010, 02:12 AM

Rollback now !

Zepor

09-03-2010, 02:09 AM

Worst GU in the history of EQ2. SoE obviously does not care about this game any more, and they are just out for a money-grab.Another account canceled, so long!

The-Plethora

09-03-2010, 07:58 AM

My sub ends on the 5th, what an abortion of a game update. Interestingly on the rift forums under a topic about what MMOs you are leaving to to play rift for there is one fairly common response.Ignore your customers at your peril<a href="http://forums.riftgame.com/showthread.php?2923-What-game-are-you-leaving-for-Rift" target="_blank">http://forums.riftgame.com/showthre...eaving-for-Rift</a>

rwiz

09-03-2010, 10:30 AM

I think EQ2 team cannot say anything against about EQ2X...OK I see well.Because the storm of restructuring blows hard in SOE.However, Whose money has been used for development of EQ2?Needless to say it is thanks to players of existing servers. not EQ2X's players.Please awake.There are no way for survival at MMO market except making good fun content.

Alvane

09-03-2010, 11:04 AM

<cite>Uguv@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>More EQ2x changes. Any improvements to newbie areas are geared towards EQ2x. </blockquote>To me, that's kinda funny considering peeps have been harping for months about improvements for newbie and lower tier areas to attract new players long before any announcement about a separate EQ2x server with different payment plans.

EQPrime

09-03-2010, 11:18 AM

The most harping I saw regarding newbie areas was to keep the starter islands. The other thing I saw people griping about was that New Halas wasn't included with the expansion. Otherwise I didn't see a ton of people concerned about the state of the starting areas. If there was a lot of interest about it perhaps I just missed it.There was a need for a better tutorial system but I would wager that most of the development put into the starting area stuff is driven by EQ2x.By the way, I still miss the boat ride tutorial from back when I first started this game. It got me hooked right from the start. I wish they had left it in. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

EQPrime

09-03-2010, 11:32 AM

<cite>The-Plethora wrote:</cite><blockquote>My sub ends on the 5th, what an abortion of a game update. Interestingly on the rift forums under a topic about what MMOs you are leaving to to play rift for there is one fairly common response.Ignore your customers at your peril<a href="http://forums.riftgame.com/showthread.php?2923-What-game-are-you-leaving-for-Rift" target="_blank">http://forums.riftgame.com/showthre...eaving-for-Rift</a></blockquote>I thought it was interesting how many Vanguard people were planning on changing over. Considering how long it has been since that game received any love, I'm surprised anyone still plays. Looks like more than half the people are leaving SOE games from that admittedly small sampling in that thread.

isest

09-03-2010, 11:33 AM

<cite>Uguv@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>The most harping I saw regarding newbie areas was to keep the starter islands. The other thing I saw people griping about was that New Halas wasn't included with the expansion. Otherwise I didn't see a ton of people concerned about the state of the starting areas. If there was a lot of interest about it perhaps I just missed it.There was a need for a better tutorial system but I would wager that most of the development put into the starting area stuff is driven by EQ2x.By the way, I still miss the boat ride tutorial from back when I first started this game. It got me hooked right from the start. I wish they had left it in. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Well that was one of the things i giped about the most. I understood why they did it, they wanted to force folks to new halass, but now thats been out a few months I wish they would give us back freeport and quenos starting areas. They did not lag out the game. Now being forced to choose ne hallas or neriak is a pain. I mean what was the harm of freeport quenos starting areas, I loved those and now they are gone forever, just wishing they were back, as I hate new hallas.

Tyrus Dracofire

09-03-2010, 01:16 PM

Devs arent listening. paladin's healing skills are too slow to cast and cost too high, also why it way too easy to get interrupted, they are highly trained plate fighter and paladins are one of most focused combat casters.

Alvane

09-03-2010, 01:59 PM

<cite>Uguv@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>The-Plethora wrote:</cite><blockquote>My sub ends on the 5th, what an abortion of a game update. Interestingly on the rift forums under a topic about what MMOs you are leaving to to play rift for there is one fairly common response.Ignore your customers at your peril<a href="http://forums.riftgame.com/showthread.php?2923-What-game-are-you-leaving-for-Rift" target="_blank">http://forums.riftgame.com/showthre...eaving-for-Rift</a></blockquote>I thought it was interesting how many Vanguard people were planning on changing over. Considering how long it has been since that game received any love, I'm surprised anyone still plays. Looks like more than half the people are leaving SOE games from that admittedly small sampling in that thread.</blockquote>I find those type threads to be reactionary. Really now - Gamers generally play more than one game. Not all games are what all gamers are wanting. So they tend to soak up all the exciting new things coming. Trion Worlds is doing a nice advertising job to attract interest and get gamers excited to at least try their new game. Other gaming companies do the same thing.Then it's - hey, let's jump on the bandwagon! The excitement builds and builds - the imagination runs wild. Gamers expect this or that and if they don't get it - they will move onto the next excitment.Not every gamer is going to leave their current MMORPG for the new kid on the block. Some will, some won't. And that's reality.If one feels this GU or w/e is a game breaker, then make your choice. You are free to do that. If you want to go out in a blaze of glory - hey - go ahead and have your 2 seconds of flame....ooops fame. Get your anger out if you must, then move on. No need to live in the past.

Théodwyn

09-03-2010, 02:32 PM

<cite>Alvane@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I find those type threads to be reactionary. Really now - Gamers generally play more than one game. Not all games are what all gamers are wanting. So they tend to soak up all the exciting new things coming. Trion Worlds is doing a nice advertising job to attract interest and get gamers excited to at least try their new game. Other gaming companies do the same thing.</blockquote>Personally, I have been a Norrathian loyalist for ten years; and have played no other game (beyond checking it out for an hour). That is part of why this GU is so disappointing to me. I've been with Norrath, EQ1 and EQ2 all along, and have never felt so disappointed. And there were plenty of disappointments and frustrations along the way. A long history of nerfs, adjustments, aesthetic changes, etc. If you have a Station Pass, look at EQ1 today. It looks nothing like it did in 1999.I saw it as evolution of the genre and the game. Even if I didn't always like it. Frankly, I think that PoP killed EQ1's sense of scale and wonder. And I think that SoL and the clusterbombs of changes to the UI and graphics engines were not well deployed. But, being a tech professional myself, I understood how great and daunting a task it was for SOE. Back in the day, when there was a huge game problem, I would just pick up the phone and call San Diego, and report the issue. Heck, I once flew to San Diego and toured their facilities. If I recall, there were in La Jolla (it was seriously seven years ago or so). They used to always be very responsive, and appreciated when you didn't sound like a spoiled brat, and could objectively report that according to track, such-and-such mob which is a PH for a named has spawned underneath lava in Skyfire or whatever.And we used to complain that SOE the big corporate monster messed everything up, and that Verant was cool, and Brad was a closed-minded idealist, but we forgave it because he was trying to do the right thing, blah blah blah.My point is, complaining and venting, both rationally and irrationally is nothing new. Heck, I used to go to Fan Faires yearly. You want to hear a bunch of people gripe? Pick any restaurant in the Las Vegas Hilton during a Fan Faire. Heck, you can walk along the strip and overhear it.To say this GU was the straw that broke the camel's back would be untrue. For my part, the camel's back wasn't under strain. I wasn't looking for reasons to be disappointed in SOE. I wasn't looking for a reason to take my money elsewhere. It's not that I was looking for anything "better" or anything "different". I wasn't making a list of gripes against SOE, so I could get upset and say "That's it! I'm done!".This GU was, for me, a completely unlooked-for and unheralded disappointment. That's why it upsets me. I mean, look at this analogy. If you're in a relationship, and your gf/bf/partner does something messed up, you don't instantly leave them do you? Not unless you are really really prissy, and if you are, you are probably too high maintenance anyway and they're better off without you. But a fundamental core value, like... you want kids and they don't... spells the end. To me, catering to a different kind of gamer, targeting a different demographic, gravitating toward WoW-likeness... is a fundamental core value.Norrath has always been a world for a more thoughtful, patient gamer. Have you ever had to put together a 36 man raid to rescue 24 corpses out of Plane of Hate before they rot? Oh, and cobble together the plat for the Fulligan Soulstones? And the lore... from Veeshan to the deities to history of the races, a very rich backstory. A backstory that came across, even in the clunky UI of the original EQ1. And both EQ1 at the time and EQ2 at launch were designed with a visual splendour to create a kind of immersion that you couldn't find anywhere else. I've been upgrading computers for ten years because of EQ1 and EQ2, and I haven't complained. I've spent a fortune on it, in fact. I've saved the receipts.I've been a long term customer, and I've been content to be so.I haven't cancelled yet. I can realistically probably be okay waiting until mid-November or so; when I sit and think that I could spend the money on Christmas shopping instead of paying for a game service that I don't enjoy anymore. I really am hoping that the team over at SOE makes it right. It's not that I'm an SOE fanboy, nor do I think they owe me anything. I don't need to give them my money, and they don't need my five subscriptions to survive. But I've had fun in this world of Norrath for over a decade, and I'd rather not see it end.- alvinc

Xill

09-03-2010, 02:40 PM

<cite>Alvane@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Uguv@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>The-Plethora wrote:</cite><blockquote>My sub ends on the 5th, what an abortion of a game update. Interestingly on the rift forums under a topic about what MMOs you are leaving to to play rift for there is one fairly common response.Ignore your customers at your peril<a href="http://forums.riftgame.com/showthread.php?2923-What-game-are-you-leaving-for-Rift" target="_blank">http://forums.riftgame.com/showthre...eaving-for-Rift</a></blockquote>I thought it was interesting how many Vanguard people were planning on changing over. Considering how long it has been since that game received any love, I'm surprised anyone still plays. Looks like more than half the people are leaving SOE games from that admittedly small sampling in that thread.</blockquote>I find those type threads to be reactionary. Really now - Gamers generally play more than one game. Not all games are what all gamers are wanting. So they tend to soak up all the exciting new things coming. Trion Worlds is doing a nice advertising job to attract interest and get gamers excited to at least try their new game. Other gaming companies do the same thing.Then it's - hey, let's jump on the bandwagon! The excitement builds and builds - the imagination runs wild. Gamers expect this or that and if they don't get it - they will move onto the next excitment.Not every gamer is going to leave their current MMORPG for the new kid on the block. Some will, some won't. And that's reality.If one feels this GU or w/e is a game breaker, then make your choice. You are free to do that. If you want to go out in a blaze of glory - hey - go ahead and have your 2 seconds of flame....ooops fame. Get your anger out if you must, then move on. No need to live in the past.</blockquote>And hey! You can stop trying to tell people how to live/feel/play. You jumping all over eveyone that has an issue really makes you look like a jerk. Especially how happy you try to sound, like you are happy they are not. And I am sure you will respond to this with an equally happy counter.

Xill

09-03-2010, 02:56 PM

Figured I would post this here since it applies to GU57.Subscription based games make their money off of simply getting users to enjoy the game well enough to want to subscribe and to keep subscribed for month after month. Once you pay your entry fee (subscription) they don't care what you do in the environment as long as you are having fun and not disrupting the experience for other players.F2P games need to find a way to "monitize" thier users or they can't stay in business. So they are not just concerned with getting people in the door to enjoy the game. They are concerned with influencing peoples behavior ONCE they get in the game to make RMT purchases. They want you to enjoy the game sure...BUT they DON'T want you to enjoy it TOO much if you aren't spending any money. In fact, thier incentive is to keep pushing you to make purchases as much as you can possibly tolerate without alienating you to the point where you will simply get frustrated and walk away. Pushing you right up to that line is how they maximize thier proffits. Those factors definately play into the design of the venue....sometimes in problematic ways. It's the same sort of tightrope that Casino's walk....and they use many of the same sort of psychological tricks to make that happenThis is why I hate F2P games. With a passion. It destroys the game.*btw I did not write that, I read it and found it to be my feelings on the issue exactly.

EQPrime

09-03-2010, 04:09 PM

<cite>Xill wrote:</cite><blockquote>And hey! You can stop trying to tell people how to live/feel/play. You jumping all over eveyone that has an issue really makes you look like a jerk. Especially how happy you try to sound, like you are happy they are not. And I am sure you will respond to this with an equally happy counter.</blockquote>Shrug I think he works for Sony. Plus, from what he posts, he is an expert on gamers, raiding guilds, and casual guilds. He knows exactly why people are seeing disturbing trends and knows we shouldn't worry about a thing. Nobody has cancelled any accounts and nobody is planning on leaving for greaner pastures, especially not those who have been loyal EQ1/EQ2 customers for many years.

Alvane

09-05-2010, 04:17 PM

<cite>Xill wrote:</cite><blockquote>Figured I would post this here since it applies to GU57.Subscription based games make their money off of simply getting users to enjoy the game well enough to want to subscribe and to keep subscribed for month after month. Once you pay your entry fee (subscription) they don't care what you do in the environment as long as you are having fun and not disrupting the experience for other players.F2P games need to find a way to "monitize" thier users or they can't stay in business. So they are not just concerned with getting people in the door to enjoy the game. They are concerned with influencing peoples behavior ONCE they get in the game to make RMT purchases...............</blockquote>Subscription based games work off volume of accounts. There is a break even point between losing money and having enough to develop the game further, maintain the machinery behind it all and pay salaries. When the number of subscribers decrease, then like in any budget, things get cut.Then it's up to management to try to do a financial turn around through various means. So far, SoE has applied that to new hardware for two servers, future upgrades for other servers, changes in effects to help with certain type lags, a new server with a different model of game play and so on. They are also working on new content.True it may not be to the liking of everyone. Not every type game is for every gamer. Games change over time. With EQ2, changes have happened in the past and will continue in the future. If the game changes enough, some players will leave and play another. And yes, some peeps will become highly emotional about changes such as in the GU57 and for them, that's a game breaker.

Thantoes

09-07-2010, 04:43 PM

<cite>Theodwyn@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Alvane@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I find those type threads to be reactionary. Really now - Gamers generally play more than one game. Not all games are what all gamers are wanting. So they tend to soak up all the exciting new things coming. Trion Worlds is doing a nice advertising job to attract interest and get gamers excited to at least try their new game. Other gaming companies do the same thing.</blockquote>Personally, I have been a Norrathian loyalist for ten years; and have played no other game (beyond checking it out for an hour). That is part of why this GU is so disappointing to me. I've been with Norrath, EQ1 and EQ2 all along, and have never felt so disappointed. And there were plenty of disappointments and frustrations along the way. A long history of nerfs, adjustments, aesthetic changes, etc. If you have a Station Pass, look at EQ1 today. It looks nothing like it did in 1999.I saw it as evolution of the genre and the game. Even if I didn't always like it. Frankly, I think that PoP killed EQ1's sense of scale and wonder. And I think that SoL and the clusterbombs of changes to the UI and graphics engines were not well deployed. But, being a tech professional myself, I understood how great and daunting a task it was for SOE. Back in the day, when there was a huge game problem, I would just pick up the phone and call San Diego, and report the issue. Heck, I once flew to San Diego and toured their facilities. If I recall, there were in La Jolla (it was seriously seven years ago or so). They used to always be very responsive, and appreciated when you didn't sound like a spoiled brat, and could objectively report that according to track, such-and-such mob which is a PH for a named has spawned underneath lava in Skyfire or whatever.And we used to complain that SOE the big corporate monster messed everything up, and that Verant was cool, and Brad was a closed-minded idealist, but we forgave it because he was trying to do the right thing, blah blah blah.My point is, complaining and venting, both rationally and irrationally is nothing new. Heck, I used to go to Fan Faires yearly. You want to hear a bunch of people gripe? Pick any restaurant in the Las Vegas Hilton during a Fan Faire. Heck, you can walk along the strip and overhear it.To say this GU was the straw that broke the camel's back would be untrue. For my part, the camel's back wasn't under strain. I wasn't looking for reasons to be disappointed in SOE. I wasn't looking for a reason to take my money elsewhere. It's not that I was looking for anything "better" or anything "different". I wasn't making a list of gripes against SOE, so I could get upset and say "That's it! I'm done!".This GU was, for me, a completely unlooked-for and unheralded disappointment. That's why it upsets me. I mean, look at this analogy. If you're in a relationship, and your gf/bf/partner does something messed up, you don't instantly leave them do you? Not unless you are really really prissy, and if you are, you are probably too high maintenance anyway and they're better off without you. But a fundamental core value, like... you want kids and they don't... spells the end. To me, catering to a different kind of gamer, targeting a different demographic, gravitating toward WoW-likeness... is a fundamental core value.Norrath has always been a world for a more thoughtful, patient gamer. Have you ever had to put together a 36 man raid to rescue 24 corpses out of Plane of Hate before they rot? Oh, and cobble together the plat for the Fulligan Soulstones? And the lore... from Veeshan to the deities to history of the races, a very rich backstory. A backstory that came across, even in the clunky UI of the original EQ1. And both EQ1 at the time and EQ2 at launch were designed with a visual splendour to create a kind of immersion that you couldn't find anywhere else. I've been upgrading computers for ten years because of EQ1 and EQ2, and I haven't complained. I've spent a fortune on it, in fact. I've saved the receipts.I've been a long term customer, and I've been content to be so.I haven't cancelled yet. I can realistically probably be okay waiting until mid-November or so; when I sit and think that I could spend the money on Christmas shopping instead of paying for a game service that I don't enjoy anymore. I really am hoping that the team over at SOE makes it right. It's not that I'm an SOE fanboy, nor do I think they owe me anything. I don't need to give them my money, and they don't need my five subscriptions to survive. But I've had fun in this world of Norrath for over a decade, and I'd rather not see it end.- alvinc</blockquote>Dudette- I really have to +10 this. It mirrors my sentiments most eloquently. I have also been a follower of the EQ franchise since approximatly 2 months before Kunark-(Ran on a 75mhz HP)

Draylore

09-07-2010, 05:11 PM

<cite>Theodwyn@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Alvane@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I find those type threads to be reactionary. Really now - Gamers generally play more than one game. Not all games are what all gamers are wanting. So they tend to soak up all the exciting new things coming. Trion Worlds is doing a nice advertising job to attract interest and get gamers excited to at least try their new game. Other gaming companies do the same thing.</blockquote>Personally, I have been a Norrathian loyalist for ten years; and have played no other game (beyond checking it out for an hour). That is part of why this GU is so disappointing to me. I've been with Norrath, EQ1 and EQ2 all along, and have never felt so disappointed. And there were plenty of disappointments and frustrations along the way. A long history of nerfs, adjustments, aesthetic changes, etc. If you have a Station Pass, look at EQ1 today. It looks nothing like it did in 1999.I saw it as evolution of the genre and the game. Even if I didn't always like it. Frankly, I think that PoP killed EQ1's sense of scale and wonder. And I think that SoL and the clusterbombs of changes to the UI and graphics engines were not well deployed. But, being a tech professional myself, I understood how great and daunting a task it was for SOE. Back in the day, when there was a huge game problem, I would just pick up the phone and call San Diego, and report the issue. Heck, I once flew to San Diego and toured their facilities. If I recall, there were in La Jolla (it was seriously seven years ago or so). They used to always be very responsive, and appreciated when you didn't sound like a spoiled brat, and could objectively report that according to track, such-and-such mob which is a PH for a named has spawned underneath lava in Skyfire or whatever.And we used to complain that SOE the big corporate monster messed everything up, and that Verant was cool, and Brad was a closed-minded idealist, but we forgave it because he was trying to do the right thing, blah blah blah.My point is, complaining and venting, both rationally and irrationally is nothing new. Heck, I used to go to Fan Faires yearly. You want to hear a bunch of people gripe? Pick any restaurant in the Las Vegas Hilton during a Fan Faire. Heck, you can walk along the strip and overhear it.To say this GU was the straw that broke the camel's back would be untrue. For my part, the camel's back wasn't under strain. I wasn't looking for reasons to be disappointed in SOE. I wasn't looking for a reason to take my money elsewhere. It's not that I was looking for anything "better" or anything "different". I wasn't making a list of gripes against SOE, so I could get upset and say "That's it! I'm done!".This GU was, for me, a completely unlooked-for and unheralded disappointment. That's why it upsets me.I mean, look at this analogy. If you're in a relationship, and your gf/bf/partner does something messed up, you don't instantly leave them do you? Not unless you are really really prissy, and if you are, you are probably too high maintenance anyway and they're better off without you. But a fundamental core value, like... you want kids and they don't... spells the end. To me, catering to a different kind of gamer, targeting a different demographic, gravitating toward WoW-likeness... is a fundamental core value.Norrath has always been a world for a more thoughtful, patient gamer. Have you ever had to put together a 36 man raid to rescue 24 corpses out of Plane of Hate before they rot? Oh, and cobble together the plat for the Fulligan Soulstones? And the lore... from Veeshan to the deities to history of the races, a very rich backstory. A backstory that came across, even in the clunky UI of the original EQ1. And both EQ1 at the time and EQ2 at launch were designed with a visual splendour to create a kind of immersion that you couldn't find anywhere else. I've been upgrading computers for ten years because of EQ1 and EQ2, and I haven't complained. I've spent a fortune on it, in fact. I've saved the receipts.I've been a long term customer, and I've been content to be so.I haven't cancelled yet. I can realistically probably be okay waiting until mid-November or so; when I sit and think that I could spend the money on Christmas shopping instead of paying for a game service that I don't enjoy anymore. I really am hoping that the team over at SOE makes it right. It's not that I'm an SOE fanboy, nor do I think they owe me anything. I don't need to give them my money, and they don't need my five subscriptions to survive. But I've had fun in this world of Norrath for over a decade, and I'd rather not see it end.- alvinc</blockquote>Another +10 ......oh make it a +100. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I have been a part of the EQ world now for 10+ years and this post is spot on.

Niawyn

09-07-2010, 09:15 PM

<div>Well, I for one would love to be able to CHOOSE whether or not to default to SOGA models when I create a new character. Last time I checked I didn't live in Asia, and weren't the SOGA models made to essentially pull Asian players? I like my dwarf ladies with beards thank you very much.At least make it stop changing back to SOGA when you change gender. Or race. Ugh, SOGA iz teh ugleh.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" /></div>

shadowedwolf

09-08-2010, 02:59 PM

Totally off topic from the EQ2x bashing and what not...But playing some of my lowbie toons, I was quite disappointed to discover that most of the NPCs lost thier voice. In Thundering Steppes I was slaughtering Centuars because they are refusing to give L&L drops. Anyways... I was getting the NPC say in my text box, but there was no sound. Yes, my speakers were on and yes, I can hear voices of a VERY SELECT FEW NPCs still, but over all, most of the NPCs, etc I remember having voices... don't.My Lucan D'Lere statue is another item that doesn't have a voice anymore... If SoE can't afford to pay Christopher Lee, okay... but... it's just sad that so many of the Norrath citizens have gone mute... <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Midoriko

09-08-2010, 10:38 PM

OkOk now that the initial flipping out, shock, anger and freaking out has died down a bit...Feedback. For the "game update"(no content and here's more bugs! oh..and buy our SC stuff!).<h3>QUEST REGIONS OF INTEREST</h3>This is good. I like this. And for the most part seems to WORK very well and isn't buggy.<h3>USER INTERFACE UPDATES</h3> Personally, I think the colors are oogry. Thank god profit updates so I can still view everything, mostly, in black. Unhappy with the general withdrawl from custom UI coding freedom."A clock and compass have been integrated into the mini-map window (the old compass and clock UI elements were not removed and can be opened using Alt-N and Alt-C respectively)." NO! No no no no. Makes the map take up that much more space. I hid the frame and moved it offscreen to fit in the corner how I wanted.Nav bar....ick. The expanding across screen thing was fun to tango with....it' still buggy for me."The Marketplace window has been upgraded for easier browsing" Yes this upgrade does make navigating station cash much easier. Take care of the item mall..where's the love for in game content? (AA interface*coughcough*)"The Inventory and Persona windows were merged to create the Character window (the shortcut key for this new window is C).Z is now the default for crouch." BAD! The window is now far too HUGE. thanks again for profit shrinking this. Also, shame on you for changing old commands around."If a new spell is a newer version of an old spell on your hotbar it will replace the older version rather than adding a new button on your hotbar." Great idea. PLEASE DON'T PUT THINGS IN LIKE THIS WHILE THEY ARE HORRENDOUSLY BUGGY. I actually found myself not wanting to level my toons. A true nightmare on double exp weekend. Overwriting nonsense like sprint..or the icon for my mount. Eating the wrong spell. Absolute garbage."You can now freely move any UI window when viewing them in F10 mode." *Thumbs up* Wonderful.<h3>CHARACTER CREATION</h3> "models will now default to their SOGA versions during character creation." Take that back. Right now!!"More classes are now neutral" Some weird choices however I'm not really entirely against it. Though still..kinda weird. Coercers being good doesn't really sit right with me. Then again good assassins don't really either. But I know people can make arguments either way and that's fine.<h3>SPELL FX REVAMP</h3>Posted feedback in the other thread for this.<h3>TRAVEL</h3> Ok you ALMOST got this right! I ran the new KoS timeline and LOVED the teleporting clouds and being able to hit any of them from anywhere. Once i left. I immediately missed the instant teleportation.This went in buggy as well. For instance I can't seem to fly BACK to Sundered Fronteir from Stonebrunt. I get dropped midair and am stuck until I evac or fall to my death.Also the pathing is awful. Still goes to every post. At least If I want to go to Shard of Fear I can tell the horse to go and get up and make a sandwich. overall. Good. Thank you.<h3>APPEARANCE SLOTS</h3> "Weapon appearance slots are no longer restricted to being the same wield style of your equipped weapons.Appearance slots are no longer restricted to levels 20 and higher." About time!!!<h3>TRADESKILLS</h3>Stellar as usual Domino. We got a bit of content even!!My only complaint is that provisioning still takes too long/too much power. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /> But thats' unrelated...-----------------------Ok so all in all...got a bunch streamlining. Controversial effects and UI changes. A a bunch of bugs. Floating mobs/NPCs. I have a graohical glitch, that my guildmates can see, where my offhand sword appears black. On multiple characters. Now having a crashing error that leaves me at "Retrieving zone info" while in game I have already logged out. Have friends with the same issue.Ok that's all from me for now.

drakkenshie

09-09-2010, 03:08 AM

<cite>Alvane@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xill wrote:</cite>Subscription based games work off volume of accounts. There is a break even point between losing money and having enough to develop the game further, maintain the machinery behind it all and pay salaries. When the number of subscribers decrease, then like in any budget, things get cut.Then it's up to management to try to do a financial turn around through various means. So far, SoE has applied that to new hardware for two servers, future upgrades for other servers, changes in effects to help with certain type lags, a new server with a different model of game play and so on. They are also working on new content.True it may not be to the liking of everyone. Not every type game is for every gamer. Games change over time. With EQ2, changes have happened in the past and will continue in the future. If the game changes enough, some players will leave and play another. And yes, some peeps will become highly emotional about changes such as in the GU57 and for them, that's a game breaker.</blockquote>Why does everyone keep talking about what they had to do because subscribers were decreasing?Most of the servers have more population on them now than it did when I first came back.The game, before any of the changes, was growing and new people were coming.Even just using their server status page which listed the number of people on each server showed increases, not decreases.Is all that information incorrect?

Pervis

09-09-2010, 08:47 AM

<cite>Alvane@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Uguv@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>More EQ2x changes. Any improvements to newbie areas are geared towards EQ2x. </blockquote>To me, that's kinda funny considering peeps have been harping for months about improvements for newbie and lower tier areas to attract new players long before any announcement about a separate EQ2x server with different payment plans.</blockquote>Your a little miss-informed here.Since SF, for every thread and/or post you can find asking for fixes to lower level content, I can find and link 10 threads/posts asking for teh same to high level content.Saying there have been people asking for this, so it is no supprise it was done, is about as logical an argument as me saying there are people asking for nunchuks to be added to teh game, so it is no supprise if they add them. Sure, there are people asking for both, but in both cases, it is a very very small minority of players, with a large majority of players asking for other things to be done.So yes, if it were not for EQ2X, I would have been shocked and slightly amazed if SOE paid any attention to lower levels again.

Pervis

09-09-2010, 09:06 AM

<cite>Alvane@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Not every type game is for every gamer.</blockquote>While this is an absolutly true statement, there is a fact you are missing.The vast majority of the top end population of EQ2 are not "gamers", we are, for lack of a better term, "MMOers".In the last 6 years, since EQ2 was released, I have played a grand total of three non-MMO games. Civilization 4, Oblivion and Dragon Age. Oblivion and Dragon Age I play in order to see a differet take on the RPG elements at play in a different environment (Oblivion systems, as interesting as they are, would never work in an MMO). Civilization I played on a second computer during raid downtime. It was the perfect combination of turn based strategic gameplay that kept me entertained when nothing else was happening, but that could be put down in an instant should something come up.Like many "MMOers" I pick a single MMO, and I play it until I am no longer interested in playing it. I despise the idea behind EQ2X. I believe that it is nothing more than a means to make additional income with minimum expenditure from a product that has already made tripple its initial investment in over a period of 10 years (from initial seed). In other words, it is a simple case of greed.however, it is not this greed, or my absolute hatred for FtP/RMT that has caused me to despise what has happened here - it is actually the knowledge of what it means for the game going forward.As of now, the development team for this game are required to make content and items (in order of priority) for EQ2X, the Marketplace, LoN, the expansion, PvP, and lastly for game updates. All of this is with the smallest development team this game has ever had. As can already be seen, this means anything other than bug fixes will become a rarity in game updates, it means there is even less time for each developer to spend on the expansion than has been the case in the past - which just gets compounded with the fact that there are less developers to begin with.All up, the way EQ2X was designed means there is less development time to spend on the actual game. If they had have listened to actual Eq2X feedback when it was in Alpha testing, and put a bit of thought in to it, they could have prevented this situation. The one suggestion I gave them during that period was to have micro-transactions based on access to content in game, rather than on "cheat" items. This would mean that EQ2X would have been able to be on live servers with no issues, would have prevented RMT of any form of items in the game, and would have given the developers strong incentive to continually create new content for the game, to go out in regular updates.This is the basis of how DDO did their FtP model, and is the model that is currently proven to work in the west. Unfortunatly, SOE are assuming they can milk more money out of players with the model they implemented than with a model that encourages them to continue working on the game.

Alvane

09-09-2010, 11:57 AM

<cite>Uguv@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>By the way, I still miss the boat ride tutorial from back when I first started this game. It got me hooked right from the start. I wish they had left it in. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>That initial boat ride to the Isles was taken out long long long time ago - like around 4-5 years maybe.

EQPrime

09-09-2010, 12:21 PM

<cite>Alvane@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>That initial boat ride to the Isles was taken out long long long time ago - like around 4-5 years maybe.</blockquote>Yeah, when they revamped the newbie islands by making a bunch of new quests and stuff. That boat ride was great.I liked all of the boat ride events. I know some are still in there as optional quests, but it was kind of fun to have so many people looking for groups to do them back in the day.

Tommara

09-12-2010, 03:52 AM

<cite>Pervis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Alvane@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Not every type game is for every gamer.</blockquote>While this is an absolutly true statement, there is a fact you are missing.The vast majority of the top end population of EQ2 are not "gamers", we are, for lack of a better term, "MMOers".In the last 6 years, since EQ2 was released, I have played a grand total of three non-MMO games. Civilization 4, Oblivion and Dragon Age. Oblivion and Dragon Age I play in order to see a differet take on the RPG elements at play in a different environment (Oblivion systems, as interesting as they are, would never work in an MMO). Civilization I played on a second computer during raid downtime. It was the perfect combination of turn based strategic gameplay that kept me entertained when nothing else was happening, but that could be put down in an instant should something come up.Like many "MMOers" I pick a single MMO, and I play it until I am no longer interested in playing it. I despise the idea behind EQ2X. I believe that it is nothing more than a means to make additional income with minimum expenditure from a product that has already made tripple its initial investment in over a period of 10 years (from initial seed). In other words, it is a simple case of greed.however, it is not this greed, or my absolute hatred for FtP/RMT that has caused me to despise what has happened here - it is actually the knowledge of what it means for the game going forward.As of now, the development team for this game are required to make content and items (in order of priority) for EQ2X, the Marketplace, LoN, the expansion, PvP, and lastly for game updates. All of this is with the smallest development team this game has ever had. As can already be seen, this means anything other than bug fixes will become a rarity in game updates, it means there is even less time for each developer to spend on the expansion than has been the case in the past - which just gets compounded with the fact that there are less developers to begin with.All up, the way EQ2X was designed means there is less development time to spend on the actual game. If they had have listened to actual Eq2X feedback when it was in Alpha testing, and put a bit of thought in to it, they could have prevented this situation. The one suggestion I gave them during that period was to have micro-transactions based on access to content in game, rather than on "cheat" items. This would mean that EQ2X would have been able to be on live servers with no issues, would have prevented RMT of any form of items in the game, and would have given the developers strong incentive to continually create new content for the game, to go out in regular updates.This is the basis of how DDO did their FtP model, and is the model that is currently proven to work in the west. Unfortunatly, SOE are assuming they can milk more money out of players with the model they implemented than with a model that encourages them to continue working on the game.</blockquote>Well, they took your advice in one respect - all mastercrafted armor and weapons available from Advanced books are now for sale for station cash. You can get a whole set of Tier 9 MC armor for 1300 SC and 400 SC for weapons. And you can buy the rares and other resources.Edit: Wasn't sure if responses were capped at 50 pages, heh. So didn't say all I wanted to, as follows:I agree with your concerns for the most part (I don't understand the distinction you were trying to make about gamers vs. MMOers, but it's not relevant). I'm an old EQ player and still have bad memories from when EQ had little competition. The game was dominated by the "vision" of a few devs, and "fun" didn't seem to be part of the vision. The "vision" resulted in this photo-shopped jibe when they came up with idea for the Legends server: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.serve.com/covenant/temp/legends.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.serve.com/covenant/temp/legends.jpg</a>I left EQ and played other MMOs. Then Star Wars Galaxies came out and despite my better judgement, I played it with a bunch of my friends from EQ. That turned out painful too.So when EQ2 came out, we avoided it like the plague and played WoW instead, which was a welcome relief from SOE games.After a couple of years, we bored of WoW. I don't recall why we decided to give SOE another chance, but we did, and loved EQ2 immediately. The old SOE "vision" was absent - the devs actually seemed to care that we were having fun, and not only was it a great game (especially for crafters, which I enjoy most), they were continually fixing things - even things that it hadn't even occurred to me to complain about, but were welcome relief. It was like every patch something new and exciting came about.Then we heard that "old school" devs from the bad ole days were coming to EQ2 - the ones whose vision wasn't focussed on making sure their existing subscribers were having fun.And sure enough, EQ2 Extended followed shortly, which bears a lot of similarities to the old EQ Legends server, despite the fact that Legends was supposed to be a premium server, while EQ2 Extended is F2P.It makes me very afraid.

Tommara

09-12-2010, 05:05 AM

I don't like the new interface. I had a hard time fitting all the windows before, despite sizing them as small as I could and still be able to see them. It's worse now and harder to fix. I used to relish the fact that I didn't have to use 3rd party programs in EQ2 like I did in WoW in order to have a flexible interface. I'd make a point to tell my WoW friends how I could modify EQ2's interface myself, no need for all that 3rd party stuff.If I play much anymore, I'll get Profit UI or something else. So silly to try to look like WoW's interface when so many people there ditch it.I was one of the people who turned off particle effects in raids. It wasn't the performance so much as the fact that I couldn't see what was going on. However, there was no need to change it. When not in a raid, I'd turn the graphics back up because it was very pleasant eye candy. I think the change was only to identify the haves and have nots in EQ2 Extended and so I resent it affecting us on "live" servers.I absolutely hate the huge experience bar and SC button as well as the stuff being attached to the mini-map and inventory window. Part of my screen real estate management was to micro-manage what I wanted to see and what I didn't. I no longer have that option, except to try to shrink things as much as possible, and position the window so that I can move stuff I don't want to see off the screen *cough* SC button *cough*.I hate red. Blue is so much more peaceful.

dawy

09-12-2010, 06:59 PM

<cite>Uguv@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Alvane@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>That initial boat ride to the Isles was taken out long long long time ago - like around 4-5 years maybe.</blockquote>Yeah, when they revamped the newbie islands by making a bunch of new quests and stuff. That boat ride was great.I liked all of the boat ride events. I know some are still in there as optional quests, but it was kind of fun to have so many people looking for groups to do them back in the day.</blockquote>aye have to agree with you those quests set the game apart from others

Pervis

09-13-2010, 09:01 AM

<cite>Tommara wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, they took your advice in one respect - all mastercrafted armor and weapons available from Advanced books are now for sale for station cash. You can get a whole set of Tier 9 MC armor for 1300 SC and 400 SC for weapons. And you can buy the rares and other resources.</blockquote>Actually, thats exactly the opposite of what I suggested they do.Selling mastercrafted items is not selling content which is what EQ2X should be based on. It is selling the rewards of content, or "cheat" items.EQ2X should have been based around dungeons. Make all overland zones free to access, but charge a one off fee to gain access to dungeons and instances. $5 to enter Blackburrow, $7.50 to enter Ruins of Varsoon etc. Give people the ability to actually play the game without paying, but give them the option of paying money to enjoy the game more.They could have then made it so players have access to all content they have purchased, even without a currently active subscription. Accounts that do have an active subscription gain access to all content added while active, and maintain access even if the subcription lapses.In order to provide an incentive to keep people paying subscriptions, all they need to do is put out 2 $7.50 dungeons/instances a month, and provide a small amount of Station Cash with each months subscription (500 with a 1 month subscription, 650 a month with a 3 month subscription, 70 a month with a 6 month subscription, 750 a month with a year subscription or Station Access).They could then make things like guild and player housing "member only", so you only have access to that while you are subscribed. This gives subscriptions more travel options, more storage, the ability to acoid broker fees and more merchant space, but doesn't take any actual feature away from unsubscribed accounts.The results of the above:<ul><li>Ability to put free-to-play accounts on live servers, providing a stronger community.</li><li>Constantly increasing purchase list for free-to-play accounts.</li><li>All developer time that is being used to make money from free-to-play accounts is also being used by regular accounts.</li><li>All players have an incentive to subscribe.</li><li>Players that are unsubscribed for a month will likely want to purchase the zones they missed out on, which would cost $15.</li><li>long term subscriptions provide a cheaper option for the player, and provide more actual benefit.</li><li>Subscribed players being given Station Cash allows for more varied items to be added to the marketplace with less player anger.</li></ul>The reasons it was not done:<ul><li>SOE suck and do not know their playerbase, let alone their potential market.</li></ul>All it would take from SOE is some determination to release a high level and a mid/low level zone a month. Based on conversations I have had with developers, it would require a full time developer, maybe two weeks a month of one other developer, and a week each month from an artist to cut and past zone geometry together. Essentially, close enough to two full time employees, and if a free-to-play option in EQ2 would not bring in enough to cover that, there is no point in having that free-to-play option.

Vortexelemental

09-13-2010, 10:49 AM

<cite>Pervis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tommara wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, they took your advice in one respect - all mastercrafted armor and weapons available from Advanced books are now for sale for station cash. You can get a whole set of Tier 9 MC armor for 1300 SC and 400 SC for weapons. And you can buy the rares and other resources.</blockquote>Actually, thats exactly the opposite of what I suggested they do.Selling mastercrafted items is not selling content which is what EQ2X should be based on. It is selling the rewards of content, or "cheat" items.EQ2X should have been based around dungeons. Make all overland zones free to access, but charge a one off fee to gain access to dungeons and instances. $5 to enter Blackburrow, $7.50 to enter Ruins of Varsoon etc. Give people the ability to actually play the game without paying, but give them the option of paying money to enjoy the game more.They could have then made it so players have access to all content they have purchased, even without a currently active subscription. Accounts that do have an active subscription gain access to all content added while active, and maintain access even if the subcription lapses.In order to provide an incentive to keep people paying subscriptions, all they need to do is put out 2 $7.50 dungeons/instances a month, and provide a small amount of Station Cash with each months subscription (500 with a 1 month subscription, 650 a month with a 3 month subscription, 70 a month with a 6 month subscription, 750 a month with a year subscription or Station Access).They could then make things like guild and player housing "member only", so you only have access to that while you are subscribed. This gives subscriptions more travel options, more storage, the ability to acoid broker fees and more merchant space, but doesn't take any actual feature away from unsubscribed accounts.The results of the above:<ul><li>Ability to put free-to-play accounts on live servers, providing a stronger community.</li><li>Constantly increasing purchase list for free-to-play accounts.</li><li>All developer time that is being used to make money from free-to-play accounts is also being used by regular accounts.</li><li>All players have an incentive to subscribe.</li><li>Players that are unsubscribed for a month will likely want to purchase the zones they missed out on, which would cost $15.</li><li>long term subscriptions provide a cheaper option for the player, and provide more actual benefit.</li><li>Subscribed players being given Station Cash allows for more varied items to be added to the marketplace with less player anger.</li></ul>The reasons it was not done:<ul><li>SOE suck and do not know their playerbase, let alone their potential market.</li></ul>All it would take from SOE is some determination to release a high level and a mid/low level zone a month. Based on conversations I have had with developers, it would require a full time developer, maybe two weeks a month of one other developer, and a week each month from an artist to cut and past zone geometry together. Essentially, close enough to two full time employees, and if a free-to-play option in EQ2 would not bring in enough to cover that, there is no point in having that free-to-play option.</blockquote>You are my E-Hero.This post + (10 ^ 10) x (10 ^ 10).Yes, I gave you that many thumbs up.

Vuethon

09-13-2010, 11:39 AM

<cite>Vortexelemental@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>This post + (10 ^ 10) x (10 ^ 10).</blockquote>uhh This post + (10^20) ?<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.As for my feedback, Work on more important stuff... Like keeping your paying subscribers happy...

Vortexelemental

09-13-2010, 12:36 PM

<cite>Vuethon@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vortexelemental@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>This post + (10 ^ 10) x (10 ^ 10).</blockquote>uhh This post + (10^20) ?<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />.As for my feedback, Work on more important stuff... Like keeping your paying subscribers happy...</blockquote>Both of these posts + (10 ^ 5) x (10 ^ 5) x (10 ^ 5) x (10 ^ 5) x (10 ^ 5) x (10 ^ 5)=pIt looks cooler like that.But, Yes.F2P was brought in the wrong way, and the way it's set up now simply will drain resources from keeping current subscribers happy.It's not a good looking situation.

kamapoipoi

09-14-2010, 05:13 AM

sorry soe but i quit.....ive been with you guys for a good 5 years tops.. i hate the fact you shoved station cash in my face. you game has made a u turn your not focused on the game itself more like your pockets. you made the game way too easy too play....you nuked all the hq's too be ran solo.....but anywho yall take care