No moderators were harmed in the making of this topic

[Daeloq]

<p>I knew I could make you look.</p><p>Forum guidelines here?:  <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=451192">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=451192</a></p><p>TOS here?: <a href="http://www.soe.com/en/termsofservice.vm">http://www.soe.com/en/termsofservice.vm</a></p><p>FG+TOS= All encompassing guideline for posting topics, or is there some other squishy area/obscure guidline that we are also enslaved to?</p>

[Amphimedon]

<p>lol ... especially the '<span style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px;"><strong>The Community Folks and Mods Are Your Friends!' <span style="font-weight: normal;">and the '</span>Help us and we help you<span style="font-weight: normal;">' chapters are kind of ... ironical :S</span></strong></span></p>

[silverfang6]

<p>This direct quote from the guideline made me lol:</p><p>"We’re not out to get you, censor you, or keep you from sharing your opinions with us."</p>

[Shareana]

<p>What exactly are you asking about that could not be done within a PM?  As I keep saying, if you have a question about a certain moderation that was done, please feel free to PM a moderator. </p><p>We follow the rules just as everyone else that agrees to them when they log in.  Yes, those are the 2 main rule lists out there.  However I feel compelled to post one part of the Forum Guidelines here.... since that one seems to be the one that has some very important info in it that is overlooked in many posts.</p><p><span ><p><strong>It’s Not All Covered Here</strong></p> <p>There’s bound to be a situation, somewhere, somehow, that isn’t directly covered in these guidelines.  This is where it lives.  All kinds of things pop up that we can’t anticipate but still will need to be moderated if it negatively impacts the community.</p> <p><strong>You can disagree with others, but keep it civil.  Your feedback might be negative, but keep it constructive</strong>. Just because there’s not a defined “rule” here doesn’t mean that something won’t be moderated if it makes the forums uncomfortable for others, and we will let you know why.</p></span></p>

[Daeloq]

<p><cite>Shareana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What exactly are you asking about that could not be done within a PM? </p></blockquote><p>Since it isnt just a single person whose threads are being locked, it would be good to <strong>confirm</strong> <strong>and share with others</strong> the guidelines that exist.  Disseminating the information not only benefits future posters, but you too.</p>

[Andu]

<p>Oh the jokes about the Brenlo eats babies line posted by Kiara. I'll find another dead forum to put them in (any of the other class ones will probably do). This one is like Colditz at the minute.</p><p>Shame that after all this attention none of it is positive. R - E - S - P - E - C - T is a two way street after all.</p>

[BearClaw]

<p>If you really want, We can put in for the Forum Rules to be revamped and have them look like EQ, SWG, Vanguard, Free Realms, and Clone Wars: Adventures.... </p>

[desinence]

<p><cite>Shareana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What exactly are you asking about that could not be done within a PM?  As I keep saying, if you have a question about a certain moderation that was done, please feel free to PM a moderator. </p><p>We follow the rules just as everyone else that agrees to them when they log in.  Yes, those are the 2 main rule lists out there.  However I feel compelled to post one part of the Forum Guidelines here.... since that one seems to be the one that has some very important info in it that is overlooked in many posts.</p><p><span><p><strong>It’s Not All Covered Here</strong></p> <p>There’s bound to be a situation, somewhere, somehow, that isn’t directly covered in these guidelines.  This is where it lives.  All kinds of things pop up that we can’t anticipate but still will need to be moderated if it negatively impacts the community.</p> <p><strong>You can disagree with others, but keep it civil.  Your feedback might be negative, but keep it constructive</strong>. Just because there’s not a defined “rule” here doesn’t mean that something won’t be moderated if it makes the forums uncomfortable for others, and we will let you know why.</p></span></p></blockquote><p>So.... Basically what your saying is the moderators can do what ever they want so long as they feel it is not contructive or is impacting the community negatively? Am I understanding this right? Sorry, but the whole illusionist community is angry, and the only thing actually affecting us negatively is the fact our posts keep getting moved/deleted by the moderators. Check it out, multiple authors, and our numbers are growing.</p><p>So what, is the only thing allowed to be posted in the illusionist forums is a question from a new player that has already been answered before over and over but due to the individuals laziness has not been searched for in past posts? Sorry, but these people are a waste of time, why should us, the veterans answer questions they are too lazy to search for? But we do it, what we expect is the consideration that the illusionist community be allowed to vent its frustration here, because as a community, we are severely disgruntled. As for making it uncomfortable for others? again, have you seen one post from a veteran stating we are wrong, the class is great, we are not representing the community? no, all you keep seeing is /support or some variant there of. I apologize if you moderators are not happy with the illusionist community and if our posts are not making you confortable, but quite fairly, these forums were for the illusionist community, and not the moderators. So whose moderating the moderators anyway?</p>

[Concordant]

<p>I imagine it takes hours to lock threads, ban CUSTOMERS from forums etc.</p><p>How long would it take to post something like this?</p><p>"Your concerns about <enter topic here> have been acknowledged. Thank you for your input."</p><p>It took me 1 minute.</p>

[desinence]

<p><cite>BearClaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you really want, We can put in for the Forum Rules to be revamped and have them look like EQ, SWG, Vanguard, Free Realms, and Clone Wars: Adventures.... </p></blockquote><p>If that is what is required to make them clear, concise, and unquestionable, why has it not been done already? You think any of those paying for this game like the concept of moderators being given free reign to do as they like, hardly. I think the communities mutual response would be YES! HAVE DEFINED RULES!</p>

[Daeloq]

<p><cite>BearClaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you really want, We can put in for the Forum Rules to be revamped and have them look like EQ, SWG, Vanguard, Free Realms, and Clone Wars: Adventures.... </p></blockquote><p>Its ironic that just above Shareana writes:</p><p><...>need to be moderated if it negatively impacts the community. You can disagree with others, but keep it civil.  <...></p><p>And you respond with words that can only be viewed as incendiary to the illy community.</p>

[BearClaw]

<p><cite>desinence wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BearClaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you really want, We can put in for the Forum Rules to be revamped and have them look like EQ, SWG, Vanguard, Free Realms, and Clone Wars: Adventures.... </p></blockquote><p>If that is what is required to make them clear, concise, and unquestionable, why has it not been done already? You think any of those paying for this game like the concept of moderators being given free reign to do as they like, hardly. I think the communities mutual response would be YES! HAVE DEFINED RULES!</p></blockquote><p>Just put in the request. </p>

[desinence]

<p><cite>Daeloq wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BearClaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you really want, We can put in for the Forum Rules to be revamped and have them look like EQ, SWG, Vanguard, Free Realms, and Clone Wars: Adventures.... </p></blockquote><p>Its ironic that just above Shareana writes:</p><p><...>need to be moderated if it negatively impacts the community. You can disagree with others, but keep it civil.  <...></p><p>And you respond with words that can only be viewed as incendiary to the illy community.</p></blockquote><p>Again, whose moderating the moderators? I've seen quite a bit of threats for forum bans, account bans, etc. now rule changes... threaten us plenty more, but it wont shut the illusionist community up, if anything, your uniting the good and bad players which never happens, for the first time, its the whole illusionist community agreeing, and the one thing affecting them negatively right now, is the current moderator swarm.</p>

[vexrm]

<p>I think there is plenty more than the mod swarm negatively impacting our community right now, but you're right we're actually somewhat united right now.</p>

[BearClaw]

<p><cite>desinence wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Daeloq wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BearClaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you really want, We can put in for the Forum Rules to be revamped and have them look like EQ, SWG, Vanguard, Free Realms, and Clone Wars: Adventures.... </p></blockquote><p>Its ironic that just above Shareana writes:</p><p><...>need to be moderated if it negatively impacts the community. You can disagree with others, but keep it civil.  <...></p><p>And you respond with words that can only be viewed as incendiary to the illy community.</p></blockquote><p>Again, whose moderating the moderators? I've seen quite a bit of threats for forum bans, account bans, etc. now rule changes... threaten us plenty more, but it wont shut the illusionist community up, if anything, your uniting the good and bad players which never happens, for the first time, its the whole illusionist community agreeing, and the one thing affecting them negatively right now, is the current moderator swarm.</p></blockquote><p>The only thing that is affecting the Illusionist forums is the constant spamming of previously locked/removed threads, commenting on Moderator actions and not able to post in a constructive manner. Soon as these three happen, you wont be seeing to much of us. </p><p>Thats as simple as I can make it for everyone. </p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Concordant wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I imagine it takes hours to lock threads, ban CUSTOMERS from forums etc.</p><p>How long would it take to post something like this?</p><p>"Your concerns about have been acknowledged. Thank you for your input."</p><p>It took me 1 minute.</p></blockquote><p>The orange names are players just like you and I.  They don't have that kind of authority.  SOE just tasks them with locking/moving everything and deleting posts because they don't have enough community team to do it without help.  </p><p>Which I totally understand but the players posting in here with their moderator accounts hardly have any interaction with the dev team anyway, most of their interaction is with Amnerys and probably Brasse.</p>

[RobF]

<p><cite>BearClaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>desinence wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Daeloq wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BearClaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you really want, We can put in for the Forum Rules to be revamped and have them look like EQ, SWG, Vanguard, Free Realms, and Clone Wars: Adventures.... </p></blockquote><p>Its ironic that just above Shareana writes:</p><p><...>need to be moderated if it negatively impacts the community. You can disagree with others, but keep it civil.  <...></p><p>And you respond with words that can only be viewed as incendiary to the illy community.</p></blockquote><p>Again, whose moderating the moderators? I've seen quite a bit of threats for forum bans, account bans, etc. now rule changes... threaten us plenty more, but it wont shut the illusionist community up, if anything, your uniting the good and bad players which never happens, for the first time, its the whole illusionist community agreeing, and the one thing affecting them negatively right now, is the current moderator swarm.</p></blockquote><p>The only thing that is affecting the Illusionist forums is the constant spamming of previously locked/removed threads, commenting on Moderator actions and not able to post in a constructive manner. Soon as these three happen, you wont be seeing to much of us. </p><p>Thats as simple as I can make it for everyone. </p></blockquote><p>There are numerous threads in the forum made over a considerable period of time putting forward positive and constructive suggestions for a class whose players consider themselves to be badly neglected. To date there has been not one response on these forums from the Developers regarding these positive and constructive suggestions. I shall leave the connection between these two factors to speak for themselves.</p>

[desinence]

<p><cite>BearClaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>desinence wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Daeloq wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BearClaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you really want, We can put in for the Forum Rules to be revamped and have them look like EQ, SWG, Vanguard, Free Realms, and Clone Wars: Adventures.... </p></blockquote><p>Its ironic that just above Shareana writes:</p><p><...>need to be moderated if it negatively impacts the community. You can disagree with others, but keep it civil.  <...></p><p>And you respond with words that can only be viewed as incendiary to the illy community.</p></blockquote><p>Again, whose moderating the moderators? I've seen quite a bit of threats for forum bans, account bans, etc. now rule changes... threaten us plenty more, but it wont shut the illusionist community up, if anything, your uniting the good and bad players which never happens, for the first time, its the whole illusionist community agreeing, and the one thing affecting them negatively right now, is the current moderator swarm.</p></blockquote><p>The only thing that is affecting the Illusionist forums is the constant spamming of previously locked/removed threads, commenting on Moderator actions and not able to post in a constructive manner. Soon as these three happen, you wont be seeing to much of us. </p><p>Thats as simple as I can make it for everyone. </p></blockquote><p>If this spam was affecting the Illusionist forums so badly, than why did locking it cause an uproar from the illusionist community? I think our commenting/reposting on the actions of the moderators would not of began if we were not so opposed to the actions you've chosen to take here. Its called protest, and it is constructive as a basis of any movement. You really want to use your power to stop our spam or commenting on your silencing of our united voices, then use it constructively and get someone of value to game development/production to come in and say something, anything. Otherwise, your doing nothing more than throwing gasoline on the fire. We are an angry and frustrated community, and we sir, have every right to be. That is as simple as I can make it for you.</p><p>Again, let me make this clear, the Illusionist community was affected by the class issues</p><p>we voiced the issues, and recieved no acknowledgment, while watching other classes recieve acknowledgment.</p><p>we protested with a countdown.</p><p>we were silenced by moderators.</p><p>our issue became the moderators.</p><p>---Not at any point did one single individual in the illusionist community voice being affected in a negative way by the countdown. Not once.</p>

[Shareana]

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=445320&post_id=5390172" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=44532...post_id=5390172</a> We do not post private messages without consent. Check your PM's.

[Shareana]

<p><cite>desinence wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Again, let me make this clear, the Illusionist community was affected by the class issues<p>we voiced the issues, and recieved no acknowledgment, while watching other classes recieve acknowledgment.</p><p><span style="color: #00ccff;">A lack of acknowledgement does NOT mean that it was not seen.  </span></p><p>we protested with a countdown.</p><p><span style="color: #00ccff;">Spamming (trolling) the forums is against the rules.</span></p><p>we were silenced by moderators.</p><p><span style="color: #00ccff;">Discussion of moderation is best left to PM's as I suggested MANY times.</span></p><p>our issue became the moderators.</p><p><span style="color: #00ccff;">That is your right, but please make sure that you understand why things were done as they were.  There are reasons and a simple PM could have gotten them for you.</span></p><p>---Not at any point did one single individual in the illusionist community voice being affected in a negative way by the countdown. Not once.</p><p><span style="color: #00ccff;">WRONG!  There were complaints.  Starting with when the daily posts began until about about a week ago.</span></p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #00ccff;">I wanted to clear this up before it is closed.  </span></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff;">Now as usual, if there are any questions, comments or concerns about what is happening here, please feel free to PM a moderator or Amnerys.  Thank you!</span></p>