Max resists and the 75% cap against hard mode bosses

[Bleveitornot]

<p>From what I know and have been told but some people is that when your resists, Mit, etc hit 12,500 this is the  cap and you have 75% protection from a lvl 90 mob.</p><p>The issue for me is that I gear myself to hit that max and not much more but for some reason, I am still being one shotted or our raid will wipe on the AOE's.</p><p>I tried to add more gear last night against 2 rune Theer and put my Mit to 13,500 and Hp to 33,500 HP's and it seemed to make an improvement, then I put more gear on and went defence and hit 14,800 mit with 34,900 HP and I no longer got one shotted.</p><p>Was this just me staying up way to late or does this really work?</p><p>2nd question, it ties into the det resists. I read that for hard mode bosses, the raid should be 20K and up for the AOE's but then I am back to the original question of the 12,500 cap.</p><p>If there are tricks that could be shared on how to live through these AOE's would be greatly appreciated, MT and raid perspective.</p><p>Thanks in advance</p>

[Leovinus]

<p>2 things here.  First, as you stated, the cap you mention is against a level 90 mob.  Against a level 98 you need a significant amount more.  The second thing, is if you look at aoes with duration (the mana burn from Theer isn't a dot so the det doesn't show up, really), you'll often notice the line "damage from this effect is harder than normal to mitigate" or something like that, so you need to go even farther above the cap to hit the 75% mitigated mark.  Unfortunately, I'm not sure it's possible to know what that level needs to be.  We often try to hit 20k+ or "as high as possible", mostly at this point for hard modes.</p><p>I suspect someone else will know the minimum for 75% against normal level 98 effects, but I don't.</p>

[Bleveitornot]

<p>That completely makes sense, TY.</p><p>So does anyone know what the multiplier would be or what the number would be so hard mode bosses don't AOE my butt to death?</p><p>Obviously the higher the better I guess.</p>

[Aule]

What's your crit mit? Also, based on the fact you've got over 30k hps you're a tank, I'm guessing you're MT'ing then? So that means you're getting frontal arc damage, not rear arc damage. You should really shoot for having your resists at 20k for nox and arcane for that fight then. You can get away with less if your healers are uber, but I recall when we first killed him we made everybody wear brellium resist jewelry to get those to 20k each.

[Barx]

<p>IIRC, when I plotted resist vs level for 75% and resist vs % at L90, about 20k resist was the max you should need for 75% resist and effects that are harder to mitigate by 20% (IE multiplies the resist curve requirement by ~1.25). For trauma AEs, that mit increase should help. IIRC also, the level for 75% against a 98 was about 14 - 15k resist.</p>

[Bleveitornot]

<p>Yes, for the hardmode stuff I have been MTing.</p><p>My crit mit is 92% with Tempy/defiler combo but I am thinking that I should add a warden and in that case I hit 102%</p><p>We used to use Berrilium to get above 13K which was our bench mark but now that we know this, what would be a good target for the raid? 15 to 18K for raid and 20K plus for MT group?</p><p>As for the piercing,slashing, trauma resists, I have instructed our raid to change all the personal set up to have ALL physical resists. Was that a good choice?</p><p>Is there any other way to increase that other then mit/crit mit?</p><p>Thank you all for the assistance so far.</p>

[Barx]

<p>For EM content, 13k should be fine. For HM 15k is a good minimum, with 18k preferable and ideally 20k for tanks or anyone else you have in close. Brellium jewelry is an ok way to get resist up when you really need it, but it does come at the cost of losing the stat you'd otherwise have on those slots. If you're seeing a lot of gear get muted, you could encourage people to look at taking similar items that have different resist, that way they can rebalance their resist around the fight without really losing much in the way of blue stats. As a healer, I have two very similar cloaks that I swap around depending on which resist I need at the time, for example.</p><p>Instructing people to change their character developement tab to all physical is good. Arcane, Elemental, and Noxious resist are all achieveable with armor or resist jewelry, while physical mitigation is only increasable in small amounts with gear upgrades, so having those on mitigation is good. A similar move is to have them all make sure they have the + health ones selected as well.</p><p>92% crit mit should be ok for 2-rune theer, if your healers have the gear they can proc an additional bit of crit mit, but even then 92% should be sufficient for 2-rune.</p>

[Yimway]

<p>Our targets we give our players is 13.5k for EM and 17.8k for HM as buffed resists.</p><p>We also set CM at 80 for EM and a goal of 120 for HM, knowing that 120 isn't obtainable by all, but just a goal to work torward.</p><p>I'm sure I've tanked 2 rune RT at 90% CM, I'm fairly sure it could be done even lower.  We've also had dps in attendance at 40% CM for those raids and survived.</p>

[Bleveitornot]

<p>Great.</p><p>Last 2 questions then.</p><p>1-For MT, the more tank gear I put on, then lower the dps and hence less agro control.</p><p>DPS gear/Off stance I have 10K mit, tank gear/Off stance and dps jewelry 12.5, All Tank/Off stance is 13.5 and All tank/Def stance is 14.5.</p><p>Is this enough to do HM Tox and if not, what should I aim for there?</p><p>2-In dps gear, I average 19K to 25K DPS and have no real issue with agro but in Tank gear I vary from 16K to 10K and then have more trouble keeping it from my O/T's, will adding "+5 Hate" to all my tank gear actually help me? I have +19 and it doesn't do as much as I would have hoped. I have respecced for as much "threat stuff" I can get also but I am sure there is more threat gear out there to be added.</p><p>Thanks again in advance for all the feedback.</p>

[vinere]

<p><cite>Bleveitornot wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Great.</p><p>Last 2 questions then.</p><p>1-For MT, the more tank gear I put on, then lower the dps and hence less agro control.</p><p>DPS gear/Off stance I have 10K mit, tank gear/Off stance and dps jewelry 12.5, All Tank/Off stance is 13.5 and All tank/Def stance is 14.5.</p><p>Is this enough to do HM Tox and if not, what should I aim for there?</p><p>2-In dps gear, I average 19K to 25K DPS and have no real issue with agro but in Tank gear I vary from 16K to 10K and then have more trouble keeping it from my O/T's, will adding "+5 Hate" to all my tank gear actually help me? I have +19 and it doesn't do as much as I would have hoped. I have respecced for as much "threat stuff" I can get also but I am sure there is more threat gear out there to be added.</p><p>Thanks again in advance for all the feedback.</p></blockquote><p>In a raid, as a MT you should have a coercer, and dirge.. and if so, you are well over capped on +hate, and add in a sin, and you are pretty much capped on hate x-fer.  Tell your OT's they need to drop there amends/DirgeHate/CoercerHate when they arnt tanking the main named.. and if they dont, just let them pull aggro and get smashed, then keep going.</p>

[Banditman]

<p>If your OT is the only person you are having aggro issues with, then it should be pretty obvious where the problem is.</p><p>A *good* OT will know how to hover comfortably in second place on the hate list without taking aggro at inappropriate times.  If your OT can't do this, then get another.</p>

[Tehom]

<p>I've tried to do testing with the average damage people take at different resist values for various AEs that are harder to normal the mitigate and just haven't had any good conclusions on whether anything after 16k or so help at all; average damage seemed pretty much the same, but sample sizes are much too small to be confident. If anyone's seen indication that it does matter, I'd be interested in hearing it.</p>

[Aral]

<p><cite>Bleveitornot wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>From what I know and have been told but some people is that when your resists, Mit, etc hit 12,500 this is the  cap and you have 75% protection from a lvl 90 mob.</p><p>The issue for me is that I gear myself to hit that max and not much more but for some reason, I am still being one shotted or our raid will wipe on the AOE's.</p><p>I tried to add more gear last night against 2 rune Theer and put my Mit to 13,500 and Hp to 33,500 HP's and it seemed to make an improvement, then I put more gear on and went defence and hit 14,800 mit with 34,900 HP and I no longer got one shotted.</p><p>Was this just me staying up way to late or does this really work?</p><p>2nd question, it ties into the det resists. I read that for hard mode bosses, the raid should be 20K and up for the AOE's but then I am back to the original question of the 12,500 cap.</p><p>If there are tricks that could be shared on how to live through these AOE's would be greatly appreciated, MT and raid perspective.</p><p>Thanks in advance</p></blockquote><p>Most of the resist questions have been answered already, but I'll just add that in doing a TON of analysis of Waansu and Maalus hardmode parses to figure out how to keep our people out of the dreaded one-shots, I can say this with certainty: 20k resist and 96 crit mit is enough for anyone to fair well as long as they made the smart character development, aa, and red adorn choices (1620 physical mitigation, 10% max health, 2-3% max heal from racials, 2.5% max health from TSO general, 10% max health on Magi's Shielding red adorn for mages)</p><p>A specific example: on Waansu, at 110 crit mit, with a predator in raid using noxious enfeeblement, 0% of the AE's will crit a raid member, meaning the entire crit bonus of the mob is wiped out.  However, even at that level and with 20k resists, it's still possible to see AE's such as Hellish Flames hit as high as 22k.  So, that mage that is wearing all the jewelry / good gear to get 20k Elemental, and 110% crit mit, yet has 19k HP - they are going to eventually get 1 shotted with some bad luck on ward procs. For hard modes people need it all, or they will die when things go a little wrong.</p><p>To summarize, it's the full meal deal combination that matters: Maximize physical resist, maximize HP, keep fight-specific resists at 20k and crit mit at least above 95, and the AE's should not longer 1 shot. If scouts are getting one-shot and sitting at 18k hp, ask them to search their AA choices and red adorns for better options. If mages are sitting at 3400 mitigation with a priest in group, tell them to visit the achievement counselor, reset character development options, and do it right. There are enough ways to F these fights without having someone one shot because they thought a 15% increase to one damage spell was too important to get 10% more max health.</p><p>Regarding Roehn Theer: If you look through the incoming damage on a tank fighting a one or 2 rune RT, you'll find that they are not dying from the Mana burn AE or the occasional combat art - RT kills tanks due to missed avoidance streaks.  RT double attacks hard and rapidly, and if a string of 3-4 hits gets through without an avoid, the healers can't keep up with the spike, and the next shot will kill if a short term immunity isn't used. Assuming you are doing the Mana burn and heroic add runes for your 2 rune RT, here are some improvements you can make.</p><p><em><strong>You may be already doing these things, but I don't want to assume so I'll list them all:</strong></em></p><p>1. Use uncontested avoidance food / drink (2.2% or newer 2.5% dodge /parry infusions and reductions).</p><p>2. Make sure your MT templar is using shield ally, and is also using the above food/ drink, and in range/facing to have their avoids work on you</p><p>3. If you have a second fighter in the raid, ask them to go full defensive, use the food/drink listed above, put their avoidance buff on you, and face toward Roehn Theer during the entire fight, if possible, and intercede during spikes. Bruiser in defensive is the ideal solution for this, but even an Sk alt in offensive will make an impact.</p><p>4. Consider a 3% riposte neck adornment for your best tanking neckpiece. With dirge/ coercer the common alternative 7.7 dps really isn't that powerful.</p><p>It may not seem like much, but the difference between a tank's avoidance report showing 42% total avoids on RT and 52% total avoids on RT is gigantic, and you can get that or better taking the steps above, even with only T1 (or T4 TSO) gear.</p>

[vinere]

<p>Not only the tank should have teh 3% rip neck adorn, but so should your cleric that is useing shield ally.</p>

[Bleveitornot]

<p>Thank you all for your input, it has definately helped me get a bettter understanding of why we can breeze through EM and get our butts handed to us on HM.</p>

[Rick777]

<p><cite>vinere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Not only the tank should have teh 3% rip neck adorn, but so should your cleric that is useing shield ally.</p></blockquote><p>Can you elaborate on this?  I thought shield ally only worked with % parry/dodge?</p>

[Banditman]

<p>Shield Ally is just an avoidance lend.  So, there is part of the spell description that says "Target has a XX% chance to use casters avoidance" or something like that.</p><p>When a mob swings at someone who has Shield Ally cast on them, the first thing that happens is the roll that says "chance to use".  If that roll succeeds, then the mob "makes an attack" against the cleric who cast Shield Ally.  Everything that would normally determine whether the mob hit the CLERIC applies.  If the Cleric is able to avoid the attack, the ally then avoids the attack.  If the cleric doesn't avoid the attack, the ally takes the damage.</p><p>I'm not sure whether Shield Ally comes before or after the shielded players own avoidance.</p><p>Anyway, for a Cleric using Shield Ally, anything they can do to increase their avoidance helps.  Most especially, uncontested avoidance has a large impact.  Contested avoidance against raid mobs is useless, though against heroics it does seem to help.</p>

[Brildean]

<p>Also Mortal coil from shard of hate to is a must for one of the priest in the mt group preferably the cleric.</p><p>For HM Tox</p><p>Its all about positioning.. where can your healers stand and not get pwn'd by the ae's and be able to heal you at the same time. As for resist.. MT group needs 18k+ everyone else 17.5k plus seems to be okay. Since your left down to the range of how much damage it will do.. I've been hit for 46k frontals with 19k resist so.. time your stoneskins for the ae cycles.</p>

[EQPrime]

<p><cite>Brildean wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>For HM Tox</p><p>Its all about positioning.. where can your healers stand and not get pwn'd by the ae's and be able to heal you at the same time.</p></blockquote><p>Right, Tox is all about having the MT group survive.  Tox doesn't do a ton of autoattack damage; it's more about surviving the AoEs and having the healers able to keep 2 tanks up.</p>

[Rick777]

<p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Shield Ally is just an avoidance lend.  So, there is part of the spell description that says "Target has a XX% chance to use casters avoidance" or something like that.</p><p>When a mob swings at someone who has Shield Ally cast on them, the first thing that happens is the roll that says "chance to use".  If that roll succeeds, then the mob "makes an attack" against the cleric who cast Shield Ally.  Everything that would normally determine whether the mob hit the CLERIC applies.  If the Cleric is able to avoid the attack, the ally then avoids the attack.  If the cleric doesn't avoid the attack, the ally takes the damage.</p><p>I'm not sure whether Shield Ally comes before or after the shielded players own avoidance.</p><p>Anyway, for a Cleric using Shield Ally, anything they can do to increase their avoidance helps.  Most especially, uncontested avoidance has a large impact.  Contested avoidance against raid mobs is useless, though against heroics it does seem to help.</p></blockquote><p>TY for that explanation, very nice.  I always understood most of that explanation, but it was the riposte adornment that threw me for a loop.  I know Clerics have no riposte at all and had never heard that riposte % would help, but it makes sense as a riposte is simply an deflect where the target does avoid the attack.</p><p>So you are verifying the 3% riposte neck adorn helps out with the clerics avoidance which in turn translates to shield ally if the target makes the chance to use roll?  If so I'm going to go get that adorn right away as there really isn't anything decent to adorn neck with anyhow.</p>

[Aral]

<p>Yes, you can see in the avoidance reports on tank "Cleric x Dodged" "Cleric x Riposted" "Cleric x Parried" even though they have none of those skills.</p><p>Some classes even get uncontested avoidance AA lines that use skills they don't have. My warlock has "Caster will parry 8% of incoming attacks" in STR AA line on sorc tree, though she has no parry skill available.</p><p>Prior to SF, clerics could use a pair of 3% parry wrist adornments which had an equal impact as the new neck, but now you can only get the neck as an uncontested avoidance adornment (outside of tiny block chance adjustments).</p>

[Brildean]

<p>TOTAL 50.8% 4948.11Amybelle blocks 2.7% 264.60Amybelle dodges 0.2% 26.46Amybelle parries 1.0% 105.84Amybelle ripostes 1.3% 132.30block 21.2% 2063.92dodge 2.9% 291.07No Damage 13.3% 1296.56parry 3.5% 343.99riposte 2.9% 291.07Sumgee blocks 1.3% 132.30</p><p>amybelle is the cleric. adds up really quick this was roehn theer (2rune)</p>