Making Critical Chance into One Ability [Archive]

MagicWand

08-09-2010, 10:30 PM

Has really thrown the balance between classes out of lack. The Devs, may only see one part of the class imbalance, with the upcoming nerf to fighter heals. However, I can tell you from first hand experience what putting all the crit chances into one mod made the game be. Healers and casters gained a nice advantage over other classes. With this new bonus to them, they gained melee crit, spell crit, and heal crit all in a nice little package. With the legendry stuff from dungeons now, it's not hard to get well over 120% Crit chance easy. However, others have to worry about double attack. And if you raid at least T1, you will most like notice that your Double attack will start to hurt. So you have juggle DA, CC, Crit bonus, Potency, etc just to keep the balancing act going. While wizards, inquistors, warlocks, furies, you name it just top the parse in raids and groups without breaking a sweat. Is it normal to see a wizard with just T1 raid gear, get 50k+ zonewide in an instanced? Let's get real here.Yes some fighters are overpowered atm with the crit chance for heals. However, they are not the only ones who can solo instances. Wardens, Inquistors, solo instances just as easy as paladins, berserkers, and shadow knights do now too. So why only target fighters? You say fighters should not be able to solo instances. Well how about healers? Should they be capable of mowing down instances as well solo?Look at the balancing of all classes not just a select few. I perfer to see the old battle of who is T1 DPS, instead of seeing the cluster mess that is now with healers, and fighters getting in the top 5 parse. Wizards right now are the kings of dps though <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />, however it seems strange seeing healers up there.

Obadiah

08-09-2010, 10:40 PM

I dunno. I think it's pretty balanced atm for the very reasons you mentioned. Everyone can do lots of stuff if they improve their character enough.Unfortunately the powers that be don't feel that Fighters should be able to solo as well as healers. So that's the crux of it. Soloing instances is OK as long as it's only Guardians and Healers and Mages that can do so.

KNINE

08-10-2010, 03:00 AM

<cite>MagicWand wrote:</cite><blockquote>Has really thrown the balance between classes out of lack. The Devs, may only see one part of the class imbalance, with the upcoming nerf to fighter heals. However, I can tell you from first hand experience what putting all the crit chances into one mod made the game be. Healers and casters gained a nice advantage over other classes. With this new bonus to them, they gained melee crit, spell crit, and heal crit all in a nice little package. With the legendry stuff from dungeons now, it's not hard to get well over 120% Crit chance easy. However, others have to worry about double attack. And if you raid at least T1, you will most like notice that your Double attack will start to hurt. So you have juggle DA, CC, Crit bonus, Potency, etc just to keep the balancing act going. While wizards, inquistors, warlocks, furies, you name it just top the parse in raids and groups without breaking a sweat. Is it normal to see a wizard with just T1 raid gear, get 50k+ zonewide in an instanced? Let's get real here.Yes some fighters are overpowered atm with the crit chance for heals. However, they are not the only ones who can solo instances. Wardens, Inquistors, solo instances just as easy as paladins, berserkers, and shadow knights do now too. So why only target fighters? You say fighters should not be able to solo instances. Well how about healers? Should they be capable of mowing down instances as well solo?Look at the balancing of all classes not just a select few. I perfer to see the old battle of who is T1 DPS, instead of seeing the cluster mess that is now with healers, and fighters getting in the top 5 parse. Wizards right now are the kings of dps though <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />, however it seems strange seeing healers up there.</blockquote>before crit consolidation I was 106% melee, and 101% heal, but low on spell... wizzies and locks should always be t1 dps no matter how u roll it.. an inquisitor topping your raid parse means a lot of other toons are really slacking.. i AGREE that fighters shouldn't have crit taken away from heals.. but before stat merger their heal crit wasn't 100% and they were balanced for healing per say.. 4 types of healers got the choice of melee specc aa's adding in melee crit.. was somethign we had to burn aas into but we were able to get melee up to 100% and above.. so we didn't get a nice advantage over anyone lol.. good try and throwing it out there though.. oh and with most the gear out there and aa's people are easily over 100% DA as well.. its potentcy and CB thats hard to get maxxed but i'm sure there are people out there close to it

MagicWand

08-10-2010, 02:46 PM

No one slacks, inquistors are over powered. I don't know what gear you wear, but Double Attack is tough to balance when T1 and T2 mostly lacks DA. Also you ignored the fact that some healers can solo instances too so where is thier nerf? If fighters were meant to have healers. Well, that goes the other way too...Healers need tanks as well. I know wizards are T1 DPS, my point in bringing this up is the fact by combining the crit stat into one and the cause of it. It's alot easier for casters and healers to balance stats with gear. Does a wizard or other casters need to worry about DA? Nope, and they can still crank out, insane DPS. However, swashies, assassins, rangers have to worry about all the stats and not ignore others. Hence, a nice advantage over other classes.You may want to dismiss what I say, but I really hope other classes get toned down as well. No classes should be able to solo instances meant for a full group. That includes fighters and healers, who can do it atm.

Obadiah

08-10-2010, 03:18 PM

<cite>MagicWand wrote:</cite><blockquote>No one slacks, inquistors are over powered. I don't know what gear you wear, but Double Attack is tough to balance when T1 and T2 mostly lacks DA. Also you ignored the fact that some healers can solo instances too so where is thier nerf? If fighters were meant to have healers. Well, that goes the other way too...Healers need tanks as well. I know wizards are T1 DPS, my point in bringing this up is the fact by combining the crit stat into one and the cause of it. It's alot easier for casters and healers to balance stats with gear. Does a wizard or other casters need to worry about DA? Nope, and they can still crank out, insane DPS. However, swashies, assassins, rangers have to worry about all the stats and not ignore others. Hence, a nice advantage over other classes.You may want to dismiss what I say, but I really hope other classes get toned down as well. No classes should be able to solo instances meant for a full group. That includes fighters and healers, who can do it atm.</blockquote>I hope healers do NOT get toned down as well because I still hold out the faintest glimmer of hope that this won't go through and I can resubscribe. When 3-4 of us could kill level 91 heroics at level 83 without breaking a sweat it's an indication that there's something wrong with the content. When Healers, Scouts, and Summoner pets can tank half the instances, it's an indication that there's something wrong with the content. Sticking their head in the sand and pretending Fighter Critical Healing is the issue is failure.Maybe they should add a slider for Crit Bonus. For example if you have 100% you should be able to apply 50 to Melee, 25 to Spells, and 25 to Heals depending on what you're doing. Throttle everyone back a bit under the guise of offering you more choices. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" />

aias

08-10-2010, 03:24 PM

<cite>MagicWand wrote:</cite><blockquote>No one slacks, inquistors are over powered. I don't know what gear you wear, but Double Attack is tough to balance when T1 and T2 mostly lacks DA. Also you ignored the fact that some healers can solo instances too so where is thier nerf? If fighters were meant to have healers. Well, that goes the other way too...Healers need tanks as well. I know wizards are T1 DPS, my point in bringing this up is the fact by combining the crit stat into one and the cause of it. It's alot easier for casters and healers to balance stats with gear. Does a wizard or other casters need to worry about DA? Nope, and they can still crank out, insane DPS. However, swashies, assassins, rangers have to worry about all the stats and not ignore others. Hence, a nice advantage over other classes.You may want to dismiss what I say, but I really hope other classes get toned down as well. No classes should be able to solo instances meant for a full group. That includes fighters and healers, who can do it atm.</blockquote>How do you verify people soloing zones? Just because you heard someone do it makes it fact? There are so many variables to this mantra that I can't believe people still cling to it as fact.

Rick777

08-10-2010, 03:27 PM

<cite>MagicWand wrote:</cite><blockquote> Also you ignored the fact that some healers can solo instances too so where is thier nerf? If fighters were meant to have healers. Well, that goes the other way too...Healers need tanks as well. </blockquote>Nerf'em, my main raid toon is a healer and I have no issue if I can't dps (except in terms of soloing since it's soloquest pre 90 and every class needs to solo). But if I never was able to dps at all in groups/raids I'd have no issue with that. It is kind of shooting yourself in the foot to defend not nerfing one class by wanting to nerf the other one, but I can't say I disagree with you.

EQPrime

08-10-2010, 03:51 PM

Are you seriously complaining about having to max double attack? Maxing DA is easy. Casters have to worry about spell casting speed and spell reuse speed, while most melee types do not (and generally cannot in regards to reuse speed). Casting speed is pretty easy to max (just like DA!) but spell reuse is not. Your argument about DA as the cause of melee doing less DPS than casters has no merit.If your inq is consistently in your top 5 in DPS then your other players are either slacking, not as well equipped, or unskilled.

Yimway

08-10-2010, 04:06 PM

<cite>Uguv@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Are you seriously complaining about having to max double attack? Maxing DA is easy. </blockquote>I thought the complaint was about maxing DA on a healer, which is difficult to do without sacraficing gear with wis (base damage stat).However, thats about the only thing preventing healer based damage from compounding high enough to require nerfing as well at this point. A mistake I'm sure they'll make with Velious itemization when given the chance.

Barx

08-10-2010, 04:17 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Uguv@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Are you seriously complaining about having to max double attack? Maxing DA is easy. </blockquote>I thought the complaint was about maxing DA on a healer, which is difficult to do without sacraficing gear with wis (base damage stat).However, thats about the only thing preventing healer based damage from compounding high enough to require nerfing as well at this point. A mistake I'm sure they'll make with Velious itemization when given the chance.</blockquote>Not really, plenty of healers can get 100 DA easy enough. I know as a warden I can get like ~80% from AA alone. What they've done to hold healer DPS in check seems more to be keeping DPS-only abilities off gear that is itemized for healers. But then healers can just get offensive gear itemized for other classes and wear that. Other melee healers that don't get DA usually get some other kind of melee stat.TBH, healer DPS is not a major problem. Gives us something to do on easy mobs other than stare at full HP bars, and with the oh-so-fun raid design of "Enough curses for 8 healers" it means your raid DPS doesn't have to drop like a stone just because you have to run a lot of healers.If they really wanted to limit healer DPS while healing, they could always give all healers a forced toggle between no melee/spell crits or no heal crits. Then while you're DPS-mode your heals don't crit or while you're healing your damage doesn't crit. Kind of like some of the TSO "stance" AAs that favor healing vs dpsing, only a forced choice between the two rather than slight focuses.

Draylore

08-10-2010, 04:18 PM

<cite>MagicWand wrote:</cite><blockquote>No one slacks, inquistors are over powered. I don't know what gear you wear, but Double Attack is tough to balance when T1 and T2 mostly lacks DA. Also you ignored the fact that some healers can solo instances too so where is thier nerf? If fighters were meant to have healers. Well, that goes the other way too...Healers need tanks as well.I know wizards are T1 DPS, my point in bringing this up is the fact by combining the crit stat into one and the cause of it. It's alot easier for casters and healers to balance stats with gear. Does a wizard or other casters need to worry about DA? Nope, and they can still crank out, insane DPS. However, swashies, assassins, rangers have to worry about all the stats and not ignore others. Hence, a nice advantage over other classes.You may want to dismiss what I say, but I really hope other classes get toned down as well. No classes should be able to solo instances meant for a full group. That includes fighters and healers, who can do it atm.</blockquote>Umm if your Inquistors are out parsing your DPS classes then there is in fact a WHOLE lotta slacking going in.Yeah casters dont have to worry about DA..........but melee dont really have to worry about casting speed or reuse speed. Seems fine to me. The only real advantage the Wizards have over say an Assassin is on the fights where you have to do alot of jousting. But all things being equal (gear, buffs, etc) your Assassins, Wizards, Warlocks are all gonna be at the top and pretty close to eachother DSPwise.Even still its not that hard to keep Crit,DA, Crit Bonus and Potency high if you pick your adorns and swap gear out depending on what buffs you may have from others. Actually DA is the easiest to boost up via buffs so you can afford having less of it on gear than the others.Stat consolidation has caused some problems but this isnt one of them.

Yimway

08-10-2010, 04:42 PM

<cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>TBH, healer DPS is not a major problem. Gives us something to do on easy mobs other than stare at full HP bars, and with the oh-so-fun raid design of "Enough curses for 8 healers" it means your raid DPS doesn't have to drop like a stone just because you have to run a lot of healers.</blockquote>That's probably fine and good until you reach the point the dps + heal + survivability potential allows your inq / warden to trivialize heroic/pervious tier epic content. Then it will raise the demands from other classes to have that potential diminished.Don't get me wrong, I agree with you, 8 healers is fricken dumb raid requirements. I've suggested they start scaling the curse load based upon number of priests in attendance, so overloading healers isn't the sollution. So long as it is, having something for them to do competently until such time as that cureing potential is required is a good thing. You've just got to make sure it is in bounds of reasonable limitations.

Barx

08-10-2010, 04:49 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>TBH, healer DPS is not a major problem. Gives us something to do on easy mobs other than stare at full HP bars, and with the oh-so-fun raid design of "Enough curses for 8 healers" it means your raid DPS doesn't have to drop like a stone just because you have to run a lot of healers.</blockquote>That's probably fine and good until you reach the point the dps + heal + survivability potential allows your inq / warden to trivialize heroic/pervious tier epic content. Then it will raise the demands from other classes to have that potential diminished.Don't get me wrong, I agree with you, 8 healers is fricken dumb raid requirements. I've suggested they start scaling the curse load based upon number of priests in attendance, so overloading healers isn't the sollution. So long as it is, having something for them to do competently until such time as that cureing potential is required is a good thing. You've just got to make sure it is in bounds of reasonable limitations.</blockquote>Yeah, thats why I said they could do something that imposed a detriment to doing both DPSing and healing at the same time, forcing you to chose to focus on one or the other.As for the curses... it doesn't need to go so far as scaling (which punishes guilds that run more priests, which are typically those that need more survivability) as simply being re-geared for 6 priests per raid instead of 8. However even making it so that cure curse cast on someone without a curse gives a short "Resist" reuse rather than the full reuse would be a good step.

Yimway

08-10-2010, 05:01 PM

<cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>As for the curses... it doesn't need to go so far as scaling (which punishes guilds that run more priests, which are typically those that need more survivability) as simply being re-geared for 6 priests per raid instead of 8. However even making it so that cure curse cast on someone without a curse gives a short "Resist" reuse rather than the full reuse would be a good step.</blockquote>Its a double edged issue. If it is balanced for 6, bringing 8 always makes it easier and I'm afraid thats what people will end up doing more times than not.An example, look at Master Syfak.Most people will say its made easier by bringing 8 healers to deal with the curses. In fact, its quite killable with only 6, you just have to decide who to cure and who not to cure. Providing the cursed person doesn't cast, the curse has no impact and expires in 45s. The biggest issue with bringing only 6 though is those single group healers might get a curse at a time they need to heal/cure their group, and the delay to get that cross group cure sorted and cast can and will equate to deaths.So in my opinion the encounter is still designed to be handled with 6 healers as is, but its made simpler by bringing 8, so most people will just bring 8.In my opinion scaling means it is closer to equal difficulty for each healer the more healers you bring. In the end, I'm still sold its the best solution to prevent healer overloading.This is off-topic and really belongs in a different forum, but its a hot subject and on people's minds.

Gaige

08-10-2010, 05:50 PM

<cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think it's pretty balanced atm for the very reasons you mentioned. Everyone can do lots of stuff if they improve their character enough.</blockquote>When some classes need:Crit + Crit Bonus + Potency + Main Stat + Ability Mod + Casting Speed + Spell ReusevsCrit + Crit Bonus + Double Attack + AE Auto + Flurry + Potency + Main Stat + Ability Mod + Casting Speed + Ability Reuse Speed + Haste + DPS Mod + Accuracy + Piercing/Slashing + StrikethroughItemization will never be even. As a scout you almost always have to sacrifice something to get something else, as a mage that is much less likely to be true.Not to mention since item points are spent on things like double attack, dps mod, and attack speed on scout items that are never spent on mage items you'll see many more mage pieces that have all the blues they need on one piece.So if anything, maybe a mage has to sacrifice some crit to get everything else on an item.As a scout keeping your crit above 120 while capping DA getting as much haste/dps mod as you can while keeping high agility oh crap lets make sure we have lots of bonus woops they uncapped potency really need to focus on that too oh man forgot about ability mod oh and accuracy shucks I'm an assassin I need lots of reuse speed too and oh I better have casting speed since my class relies on chain casting stealth CAs in order to parse well, etc etc.Its absolutely not balanced at all.

Obadiah

08-10-2010, 06:10 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think it's pretty balanced atm for the very reasons you mentioned. Everyone can do lots of stuff if they improve their character enough.</blockquote>When some classes need:Crit + Crit Bonus + Potency + Main Stat + Ability Mod + Casting Speed + Spell ReusevsCrit + Crit Bonus + Double Attack + AE Auto + Flurry + Potency + Main Stat + Ability Mod + Casting Speed + Ability Reuse Speed + Haste + DPS Mod + Accuracy + Piercing/Slashing + StrikethroughItemization will never be even. As a scout you almost always have to sacrifice something to get something else, as a mage that is much less likely to be true.Not to mention since item points are spent on things like double attack, dps mod, and attack speed on scout items that are never spent on mage items you'll see many more mage pieces that have all the blues they need on one piece.So if anything, maybe a mage has to sacrifice some crit to get everything else on an item.As a scout keeping your crit above 120 while capping DA getting as much haste/dps mod as you can while keeping high agility oh crap lets make sure we have lots of bonus woops they uncapped potency really need to focus on that too oh man forgot about ability mod oh and accuracy shucks I'm an assassin I need lots of reuse speed too and oh I better have casting speed since my class relies on chain casting stealth CAs in order to parse well, etc etc.Its absolutely not balanced at all.</blockquote>So taking away the chance for Fighters to critical heal just balances everything right out? I was responding to the OP, not saying everything is perfectly balanced, but as far as class XYZ being able to fill role ABC, or solo content LMN, it is. Itemization and the fact that some classes have more categories of bonuses to upgrade in order to maximize their potential was not part of the discussion.The point of the OP, as I understood it, was the crit consolidation threw everything asunder and nerfing Fighter Heals doesn't fix any of that, and makes it look like you need to "do the rest". Maybe it momentarily shifts who the most powerful classes are as far as soloing heroic content goes, maybe not even that.As I've stated elsewhere, if you're going to fix things by nerfing some classes, do it all at once.

drakkenshie

08-11-2010, 05:06 AM

<cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Uguv@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Are you seriously complaining about having to max double attack? Maxing DA is easy. </blockquote>I thought the complaint was about maxing DA on a healer, which is difficult to do without sacraficing gear with wis (base damage stat).However, thats about the only thing preventing healer based damage from compounding high enough to require nerfing as well at this point. A mistake I'm sure they'll make with Velious itemization when given the chance.</blockquote>Not really, plenty of healers can get 100 DA easy enough. I know as a warden I can get like ~80% from AA alone. What they've done to hold healer DPS in check seems more to be keeping DPS-only abilities off gear that is itemized for healers. But then healers can just get offensive gear itemized for other classes and wear that. Other melee healers that don't get DA usually get some other kind of melee stat.TBH, healer DPS is not a major problem. Gives us something to do on easy mobs other than stare at full HP bars, and with the oh-so-fun raid design of "Enough curses for 8 healers" it means your raid DPS doesn't have to drop like a stone just because you have to run a lot of healers.If they really wanted to limit healer DPS while healing, they could always give all healers a forced toggle between no melee/spell crits or no heal crits. Then while you're DPS-mode your heals don't crit or while you're healing your damage doesn't crit. Kind of like some of the TSO "stance" AAs that favor healing vs dpsing, only a forced choice between the two rather than slight focuses.</blockquote>Egads, that would suck worse than most of what I can imagine.The main healer that needs changes is a templar: they need to have the same melee/DPS ability as every other healer. They always get shafted.Other that that, these changes are just purely stupid design. Fighter heals are not all that great unless you are heavy on AA and hitting easy stuff.Sony needs to stop being lazy with design and learn to do something besides nerf things.There are plenty of hard zones, and if you can't find any, then quit being a lazy player and try different class combinations or don't bring twice as many people as you need to overpower a zone.As for Sony, they should change some of the content if it is really too easy. Every time they nerf things they screw it up.

MagicWand

08-12-2010, 01:23 AM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think it's pretty balanced atm for the very reasons you mentioned. Everyone can do lots of stuff if they improve their character enough.</blockquote>When some classes need:Crit + Crit Bonus + Potency + Main Stat + Ability Mod + Casting Speed + Spell ReusevsCrit + Crit Bonus + Double Attack + AE Auto + Flurry + Potency + Main Stat + Ability Mod + Casting Speed + Ability Reuse Speed + Haste + DPS Mod + Accuracy + Piercing/Slashing + StrikethroughItemization will never be even. As a scout you almost always have to sacrifice something to get something else, as a mage that is much less likely to be true.Not to mention since item points are spent on things like double attack, dps mod, and attack speed on scout items that are never spent on mage items you'll see many more mage pieces that have all the blues they need on one piece.So if anything, maybe a mage has to sacrifice some crit to get everything else on an item.As a scout keeping your crit above 120 while capping DA getting as much haste/dps mod as you can while keeping high agility oh crap lets make sure we have lots of bonus woops they uncapped potency really need to focus on that too oh man forgot about ability mod oh and accuracy shucks I'm an assassin I need lots of reuse speed too and oh I better have casting speed since my class relies on chain casting stealth CAs in order to parse well, etc etc.Its absolutely not balanced at all.</blockquote>You said it perfectly, pointing out the imbalance that exists atm with melee vs casters.

ruthlessG619

08-12-2010, 03:59 PM

<cite>MagicWand wrote:</cite><blockquote>No one slacks, inquistors are over powered. I don't know what gear you wear, but Double Attack is tough to balance when T1 and T2 mostly lacks DA. Also you ignored the fact that some healers can solo instances too so where is thier nerf? If fighters were meant to have healers. Well, that goes the other way too...Healers need tanks as well. I know wizards are T1 DPS, my point in bringing this up is the fact by combining the crit stat into one and the cause of it. It's alot easier for casters and healers to balance stats with gear. Does a wizard or other casters need to worry about DA? Nope, and they can still crank out, insane DPS. However, swashies, assassins, rangers have to worry about all the stats and not ignore others. Hence, a nice advantage over other classes.You may want to dismiss what I say, but I really hope other classes get toned down as well. No classes should be able to solo instances meant for a full group. That includes fighters and healers, who can do it atm.</blockquote>Inquisitors are overpowered? IF ANY DPS CLASS IS BEING OUTDPSED BY AN INQUISITOR, THEY SHOULDN'T BE ON YOUR RAID/GROUP. That's the player now more then gear/abilities/AA.... Stop QQ'ing about healers dps. Do you think healers first concern on raids is DPS? People need to stop sucking for once and play better.

iceriven2

08-15-2010, 09:23 AM

<cite>ruthlessG619 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>MagicWand wrote:</cite><blockquote>No one slacks, inquistors are over powered. I don't know what gear you wear, but Double Attack is tough to balance when T1 and T2 mostly lacks DA. Also you ignored the fact that some healers can solo instances too so where is thier nerf? If fighters were meant to have healers. Well, that goes the other way too...Healers need tanks as well. I know wizards are T1 DPS, my point in bringing this up is the fact by combining the crit stat into one and the cause of it. It's alot easier for casters and healers to balance stats with gear. Does a wizard or other casters need to worry about DA? Nope, and they can still crank out, insane DPS. However, swashies, assassins, rangers have to worry about all the stats and not ignore others. Hence, a nice advantage over other classes.You may want to dismiss what I say, but I really hope other classes get toned down as well. No classes should be able to solo instances meant for a full group. That includes fighters and healers, who can do it atm.</blockquote>Inquisitors are overpowered? IF ANY DPS CLASS IS BEING OUTDPSED BY AN INQUISITOR, THEY SHOULDN'T BE ON YOUR RAID/GROUP. That's the player now more then gear/abilities/AA.... Stop QQ'ing about healers dps. Do you think healers first concern on raids is DPS? People need to stop sucking for once and play better. </blockquote>AGREEDI grped with some of the better furies and inq on my server and although they can do awesome dps i dont see them doing 60-70k dps

EndevorX

08-15-2010, 01:49 PM

<cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>MagicWand wrote:</cite><blockquote>No one slacks, inquistors are over powered. I don't know what gear you wear, but Double Attack is tough to balance when T1 and T2 mostly lacks DA. Also you ignored the fact that some healers can solo instances too so where is thier nerf? If fighters were meant to have healers. Well, that goes the other way too...Healers need tanks as well. I know wizards are T1 DPS, my point in bringing this up is the fact by combining the crit stat into one and the cause of it. It's alot easier for casters and healers to balance stats with gear. Does a wizard or other casters need to worry about DA? Nope, and they can still crank out, insane DPS. However, swashies, assassins, rangers have to worry about all the stats and not ignore others. Hence, a nice advantage over other classes.You may want to dismiss what I say, but I really hope other classes get toned down as well. No classes should be able to solo instances meant for a full group. That includes fighters and healers, who can do it atm.</blockquote>I hope healers do NOT get toned down as well because I still hold out the faintest glimmer of hope that this won't go through and I can resubscribe. When 3-4 of us could kill level 91 heroics at level 83 without breaking a sweat it's an indication that there's something wrong with the content. When Healers, Scouts, and Summoner pets can tank half the instances, it's an indication that there's something wrong with the content. Sticking their head in the sand and pretending Fighter Critical Healing is the issue is failure.Maybe they should add a slider for Crit Bonus. For example if you have 100% you should be able to apply 50 to Melee, 25 to Spells, and 25 to Heals depending on what you're doing. Throttle everyone back a bit under the guise of offering you more choices. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Veeery good, ingenous idea that could be applied to instances and raiding.Priests are pretty tough these days.Fighters will still solo zones.The problem is power regeneration, and FOR PvE GROUP INSTANCES, ward procs for fighters.<cite>drakkenshield wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Uguv@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Are you seriously complaining about having to max double attack? Maxing DA is easy. </blockquote>I thought the complaint was about maxing DA on a healer, which is difficult to do without sacraficing gear with wis (base damage stat).However, thats about the only thing preventing healer based damage from compounding high enough to require nerfing as well at this point. A mistake I'm sure they'll make with Velious itemization when given the chance.</blockquote>Not really, plenty of healers can get 100 DA easy enough. I know as a warden I can get like ~80% from AA alone. What they've done to hold healer DPS in check seems more to be keeping DPS-only abilities off gear that is itemized for healers. But then healers can just get offensive gear itemized for other classes and wear that. Other melee healers that don't get DA usually get some other kind of melee stat.TBH, healer DPS is not a major problem. Gives us something to do on easy mobs other than stare at full HP bars, and with the oh-so-fun raid design of "Enough curses for 8 healers" it means your raid DPS doesn't have to drop like a stone just because you have to run a lot of healers.If they really wanted to limit healer DPS while healing, they could always give all healers a forced toggle between no melee/spell crits or no heal crits. Then while you're DPS-mode your heals don't crit or while you're healing your damage doesn't crit. Kind of like some of the TSO "stance" AAs that favor healing vs dpsing, only a forced choice between the two rather than slight focuses.</blockquote>Egads, that would suck worse than most of what I can imagine.The main healer that needs changes is a templar: they need to have the same melee/DPS ability as every other healer. They always get shafted.Other that that, these changes are just purely stupid design. Fighter heals are not all that great unless you are heavy on AA and hitting easy stuff.Sony needs to stop being lazy with design and learn to do something besides nerf things.There are plenty of hard zones, and if you can't find any, then quit being a lazy player and try different class combinations or don't bring twice as many people as you need to overpower a zone.As for Sony, they should change some of the content if it is really too easy. Every time they nerf things they screw it up.</blockquote>Or, Templars could have their curing ability upped in ways that makes Wardens OP...=[

Xalmat

08-15-2010, 01:52 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think it's pretty balanced atm for the very reasons you mentioned. Everyone can do lots of stuff if they improve their character enough.</blockquote>When some classes need:Crit + Crit Bonus + Potency + Main Stat + Ability Mod + Casting Speed + Spell ReusevsCrit + Crit Bonus + Double Attack + AE Auto + Flurry + Potency + Main Stat + Ability Mod + Casting Speed + Ability Reuse Speed + Haste + DPS Mod + Accuracy + Piercing/Slashing + StrikethroughItemization will never be even. As a scout you almost always have to sacrifice something to get something else, as a mage that is much less likely to be true.Not to mention since item points are spent on things like double attack, dps mod, and attack speed on scout items that are never spent on mage items you'll see many more mage pieces that have all the blues they need on one piece.So if anything, maybe a mage has to sacrifice some crit to get everything else on an item.As a scout keeping your crit above 120 while capping DA getting as much haste/dps mod as you can while keeping high agility oh crap lets make sure we have lots of bonus woops they uncapped potency really need to focus on that too oh man forgot about ability mod oh and accuracy shucks I'm an assassin I need lots of reuse speed too and oh I better have casting speed since my class relies on chain casting stealth CAs in order to parse well, etc etc.Its absolutely not balanced at all.</blockquote>Wow, for once I agree with Gaige.