I guess Smedley's apology was worthless

[Borkola]

<p><em><span>"With the NGE, I'm sorry about the mistake we made," he told us. "We screwed up and didn't listen to the fans when we should have, and it's not a mistake we're going to make again."</span></em></p><p><span>[...]</span></p><p><span><em>And what was the mistake SOE made that Smedley is sorry for?</em></span></p><p><span><em>"[The mistake was] to not just think we know the right direction without bringing the fans into the mix," he explained. "We made the cardinal sin of not listening, but assuming, and we were wrong."</em></span></p><p>Source:<a href="http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/interviews/2301-John-Smedley-Exclusive-Interview-with-the-SOE-CEO.2" target="_blank">http://www.warcry.com/articles/view...h-the-SOE-CEO.2</a></p><p>I think it's been made pretty clear that the bulk of the current subscriber base does not want EQ2X to go live. Some would be okay with it -- maybe even welcome it -- it if it was used to encourage players to move to EQ2 Live as regular subscribers, but that's clearly not the plan.</p><p>EQ2X players cannot transfer to EQ2 Live -- and if this is allowed in the future, no doubt it'll come at a substantial price tag. The removal of the 14-day free trial for EQ2 Live makes it clear that SOE does not want new players on EQ2 Live. The intention is for our servers to wither and die, as SOE believes it can make more money per player if everyone is on EQ2X -- current players be damned.</p><p>Our new producer is already talking about merging the Live servers down "if" they shrink as a result of this change.</p><p>Nor do we want:</p><ul><li>The 14-day free trial for new players to be removed</li><li>The big fat SmedleyBucks button glued to our screen on EQ2 Live</li><li>Character creation defaulting to SOGA</li><li>The new uglified combat animations and spell effects</li></ul><p>Yet it is obvious these changes will go live regardless of how we feel. We've already been told the SmedleyBucks button will not be removed regardless of player feedback.</p><p>We didn't want LoN, the SmedleyBucks store, the removal of Freeport and Qeynos starting islands, and a number of other changes that went live regardless of how the players felt.</p><p>Alienating the player base in an attempt to get fresh meat in is a mistake that SOE already made in SWG. And how well did that work out?</p><p>It's too bad that in 2007 when John Smedley apologized for the NGE -- and promised that SOE would listen to player feedback in the future, and would stop assuming that they, alone, knew what was best -- I (and no doubt many others) believed him and forgave.</p><p>It's not a mistake I'll make again.</p>

[anti1029]

<p>+1 to the OP, everything stated! Feeling the nerd rage coming on...</p>

[Aule]

I know I personally will never purchase a SOE product again.

[Whilhelmina]

+1

[ruthlessG619]

<p><cite>Borkola wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><em><span>"With the NGE, I'm sorry about the mistake we made," he told us. "We screwed up and didn't listen to the fans when we should have, and it's not a mistake we're going to make again."</span></em></p><p><span>[...]</span></p><p><span><em>And what was the mistake SOE made that Smedley is sorry for?</em></span></p><p><span><em>"[The mistake was] to not just think we know the right direction without bringing the fans into the mix," he explained. "We made the cardinal sin of not listening, but assuming, and we were wrong."</em></span></p><p>Source:<a href="http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/interviews/2301-John-Smedley-Exclusive-Interview-with-the-SOE-CEO.2" target="_blank">http://www.warcry.com/articles/view...h-the-SOE-CEO.2</a></p><p>I think it's been made pretty clear that the bulk of the current subscriber base does not want EQ2X to go live. Some would be okay with it -- maybe even welcome it -- it if it was used to encourage players to move to EQ2 Live as regular subscribers, but that's clearly not the plan.</p><p>EQ2X players cannot transfer to EQ2 Live -- and if this is allowed in the future, no doubt it'll come at a substantial price tag. The removal of the 14-day free trial for EQ2 Live makes it clear that SOE does not want new players on EQ2 Live. The intention is for our servers to wither and die, as SOE believes it can make more money per player if everyone is on EQ2X -- current players be damned.</p><p>Our new producer is already talking about merging the Live servers down "if" they shrink as a result of this change.</p><p>Nor do we want:</p><ul><li>The 14-day free trial for new players to be removed</li><li>The big fat SmedleyBucks button glued to our screen on EQ2 Live</li><li>Character creation defaulting to SOGA</li><li>The new uglified combat animations and spell effects</li></ul><p>Yet it is obvious these changes will go live regardless of how we feel. We've already been told the SmedleyBucks button will not be removed regardless of player feedback.</p><p>We didn't want LoN, the SmedleyBucks store, the removal of Freeport and Qeynos starting islands, and a number of other changes that went live regardless of how the players felt.</p><p>Alienating the player base in an attempt to get fresh meat in is a mistake that SOE already made in SWG. And how well did that work out?</p><p>It's too bad that in 2007 when John Smedley apologized for the NGE -- and promised that SOE would listen to player feedback in the future, and would stop assuming that they, alone, knew what was best -- I (and no doubt many others) believed him and forgave.</p><p>It's not a mistake I'll make again.</p></blockquote><p>LOL at comparing a f2p server to the NGE. Crying because you can't transfer a toon from the f2p servers to live? You do know they will have ACTUAL items with stats for sale in the marketplace right? With the ease of leveling (its so easy its PATHETIC) if a player on the f2p server wants to play on live MAKE A NEW CHARACTER on a live server. </p><p>LOL at SOGA models being default setting, you act as if they removed the original models all together. </p><p>HOW THE HELL are you alienating the player base when f2p is on its own server? </p><p>Half of the current spell graphics and animations were useless and too much spell graphic crap. Try raiding on full graphics will all that crap flying in your face. </p><p>I've excepted this game for what it is(someday a quality game with a MEANINGFUL DEATH PENALTY will come out but until then), its been remade into a WoW wannabe, seems like you haven't </p>

[Brook]

<p>I will if it is like EQ2 was when I started.</p><p>They could have done so much more with this game and set the industry standard instead of following the path of lesser games.</p>

[Dasein]

<p>Most of the coming changes are either cosmetic (UI, spell graphics) or meta-changes to the business model (F2P). None of them really impact my gameplay all that much. The only substantive mechanics change is the fighter heal nerf, which is is reall fairly minor.</p>

[Rick777]

<p>I think what you (and many) are missing is that in the long term F2P will make SOE much more money than the live servers will.  Why do you think it's a one way funnel from EQ2 to EQ2x?  It's not that SOE doesn't care about it's customer base, although it's that they only care about their customer base in relation to how much money they bring in, as any good business should, they are not an altruistic non-profit agency designed to make us feel good.  Live servers will survive is some muted EQ1 sort of existence where the players who didn't quit over SOE's business decision, or the players who didn't migrate to the more populated EQ2x servers stay.</p><p>I take any corporate apology with a huge grain of salt, it's called PR and crocodile tears are a dime a dozen.</p>

[Borkola]

<p><cite>ruthlessG619 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>LOL at comparing a f2p server to the NGE. Crying because you can't transfer a toon from the f2p servers to live? You do know they will have ACTUAL items with stats for sale in the marketplace right? With the ease of leveling (its so easy its PATHETIC) if a player on the f2p server wants to play on live MAKE A NEW CHARACTER on a live server. </p><p>LOL at SOGA models being default setting, you act as if they removed the original models all together. </p><p>HOW THE HELL are you alienating the player base when f2p is on its own server? </p><p>Half of the current spell graphics and animations were useless and too much spell graphic crap. Try raiding on full graphics will all that crap flying in your face. </p><p>I've excepted this game for what it is(someday a quality game with a MEANINGFUL DEATH PENALTY will come out but until then), its been remade into a WoW wannabe, seems like you haven't </p></blockquote><p>Did you even read what I wrote?</p><p>I'm not comparing EQ2X with the NGE. The point is that Smedley promised they would listen to the playerbase, yet that is clearly not happening. Rothgar has already stated, for example, that the Station Cash button will stay as part of the XP bar -- regardless of how players feel.</p><p>Believe it or not, this isn't at all about what I think of the changes. It's about the fact the current playerbase is being ignored, and unwanted changes are going forward... because SOE thinks it knows best. This is precisely what Smedley promised would not happen again.</p>

[Dasein]

<p><cite>Borkola wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>ruthlessG619 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>LOL at comparing a f2p server to the NGE. Crying because you can't transfer a toon from the f2p servers to live? You do know they will have ACTUAL items with stats for sale in the marketplace right? With the ease of leveling (its so easy its PATHETIC) if a player on the f2p server wants to play on live MAKE A NEW CHARACTER on a live server. </p><p>LOL at SOGA models being default setting, you act as if they removed the original models all together. </p><p>HOW THE HELL are you alienating the player base when f2p is on its own server? </p><p>Half of the current spell graphics and animations were useless and too much spell graphic crap. Try raiding on full graphics will all that crap flying in your face. </p><p>I've excepted this game for what it is(someday a quality game with a MEANINGFUL DEATH PENALTY will come out but until then), its been remade into a WoW wannabe, seems like you haven't </p></blockquote><p>Did you even read what I wrote?</p><p>I'm not comparing EQ2X with the NGE. The point is that Smedley promised they would listen to the playerbase, yet that is clearly not happening. Rothgar has already stated, for example, that the Station Cash button will stay as part of the XP bar -- regardless of how players feel.</p><p>Believe it or not, this isn't at all about what I think of the changes. It's about the fact the current playerbase is being ignored, and unwanted changes are going forward... because SOE thinks it knows best. This is precisely what Smedley promised would not happen again.</p></blockquote><p>You are confusing listening to the player base with allowing those who complain loudest on the forums to dictate SOE policy.</p><p>They have listened to the playerbase, and the presence of many threads with quite a bit of developer feedback, and changes made as a result of this feedback is evidence of this. However, that doesn't mean that players will always get everything they want.</p>

[Borkola]

<p><cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think what you (and many) are missing is that in the long term F2P will make SOE much more money than the live servers will.  Why do you think it's a one way funnel from EQ2 to EQ2x?  It's not that SOE doesn't care about it's customer base, although it's that they only care about their customer base in relation to how much money they bring in, as any good business should, they are not an altruistic non-profit agency designed to make us feel good.  Live servers will survive is some muted EQ1 sort of existence where the players who didn't quit over SOE's business decision, or the players who didn't migrate to the more populated EQ2x servers stay.</p><p>I take any corporate apology with a huge grain of salt, it's called PR and crocodile tears are a dime a dozen.</p></blockquote><p>That was the plan with SWG, as well -- "If we change this game to make it appeal to the masses, sure, we'll lose many of our current subscribers but we will more than make up for it with new players."</p><p>TBH, I think the model they propose isn't going to work out as well for them as they think. The restrictions on Bronze and Silver players are so harsh that the only option that will make the game playable is to upgrade to Gold, and that's what they hope players will do -- as well as spending money in the Marketplace.</p><p>The DDO model worked out great, and LOTRO is following in its footsteps. But the difference between Turbine's model and SOE's is huge. The average amount an active DDO player spends (including sub fees from VIP members) is roughly half that a full subscriber pays. Yet they make much more money than they did in a subscriber only model -- because they make up for it in numbers. SOE wants to have it's cake and eat it too by increasing the amount spent per player. That would be great for them, as a business, if it actually worked out that way. I sincerely doubt it will, however.</p><p>As for corporate apologies, well... what can I say? Lesson learned, I suppose.</p>

[Alenna]

<p><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Borkola wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>ruthlessG619 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>LOL at comparing a f2p server to the NGE. Crying because you can't transfer a toon from the f2p servers to live? You do know they will have ACTUAL items with stats for sale in the marketplace right? With the ease of leveling (its so easy its PATHETIC) if a player on the f2p server wants to play on live MAKE A NEW CHARACTER on a live server. </p><p>LOL at SOGA models being default setting, you act as if they removed the original models all together. </p><p>HOW THE HELL are you alienating the player base when f2p is on its own server? </p><p>Half of the current spell graphics and animations were useless and too much spell graphic crap. Try raiding on full graphics will all that crap flying in your face. </p><p>I've excepted this game for what it is(someday a quality game with a MEANINGFUL DEATH PENALTY will come out but until then), its been remade into a WoW wannabe, seems like you haven't </p></blockquote><p>Did you even read what I wrote?</p><p>I'm not comparing EQ2X with the NGE. The point is that Smedley promised they would listen to the playerbase, yet that is clearly not happening. Rothgar has already stated, for example, that the Station Cash button will stay as part of the XP bar -- regardless of how players feel.</p><p>Believe it or not, this isn't at all about what I think of the changes. It's about the fact the current playerbase is being ignored, and unwanted changes are going forward... because SOE thinks it knows best. This is precisely what Smedley promised would not happen again.</p></blockquote><p>You are confusing listening to the player base with allowing those who complain loudest on the forums to dictate SOE policy.</p><p>They have listened to the playerbase, and the presence of many threads with quite a bit of developer feedback, and changes made as a result of this feedback is evidence of this. However, that doesn't mean that players will always get everything they want.</p></blockquote><p>which means the players will not get vibrant live servers now will they since any possible NEW PLAYER will be sent to the EQ2x servers and no more 14 day trials on live serves.</p>

[Borkola]

<p><cite>Alenna@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>which means the players will not get vibrant live servers now will they since any possible NEW PLAYER will be sent to the EQ2x servers and no more 14 day trials on live serves.</p></blockquote><p>Yes. And before someone says "there aren't any new players on live anyway"... you might be surprised at how many genuine new players (mostly WoW refugees) I've encountered while leveling up alts on Crushbone. I've been stopped numerous times while questing in Thundering Steppes, Nektulos, etc. by newbies with questions about basic game mechanics.</p>

[Myrien]

<p><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Borkola wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>ruthlessG619 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>LOL at comparing a f2p server to the NGE. Crying because you can't transfer a toon from the f2p servers to live? You do know they will have ACTUAL items with stats for sale in the marketplace right? With the ease of leveling (its so easy its PATHETIC) if a player on the f2p server wants to play on live MAKE A NEW CHARACTER on a live server. </p><p>LOL at SOGA models being default setting, you act as if they removed the original models all together. </p><p>HOW THE HELL are you alienating the player base when f2p is on its own server? </p><p>Half of the current spell graphics and animations were useless and too much spell graphic crap. Try raiding on full graphics will all that crap flying in your face. </p><p>I've excepted this game for what it is(someday a quality game with a MEANINGFUL DEATH PENALTY will come out but until then), its been remade into a WoW wannabe, seems like you haven't </p></blockquote><p>Did you even read what I wrote?</p><p>I'm not comparing EQ2X with the NGE. The point is that Smedley promised they would listen to the playerbase, yet that is clearly not happening. Rothgar has already stated, for example, that the Station Cash button will stay as part of the XP bar -- regardless of how players feel.</p><p>Believe it or not, this isn't at all about what I think of the changes. It's about the fact the current playerbase is being ignored, and unwanted changes are going forward... because SOE thinks it knows best. This is precisely what Smedley promised would not happen again.</p></blockquote><p>You are confusing listening to the player base with allowing those who complain loudest on the forums to dictate SOE policy.</p><p>They have listened to the playerbase, and the presence of many threads with quite a bit of developer feedback, and changes made as a result of this feedback is evidence of this. However, that doesn't mean that players will always get everything they want.</p></blockquote><p>Smokejumper himself stated very clearly that the players have spoken, and that we do not want F2P.  Sony is going ahead with it anyway.  The OP was spot on, in my opinion.  Smedly hears, but he doesn't listen.  He's too busy counting the dollar signs.</p>

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>AFAIK they can still come on live servers using the RAF feature. I never played SWG but from what I gather this stuff is nothing like the NGE. Wasnt the NGE basically removing 60% of the classes and making everything pathetically easy or something?</p><p>GU57 doesnt have much in the way of gameplay changes as far as I can see. The new UI is nice, the new spell animations are hilariously bad.</p><p>IMO those animations are enough to put anyone off subbing to EQ2 for life!</p>

[Borkola]

<p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>AFAIK they can still come on live servers using the RAF feature. I never played SWG but from what I gather this stuff is nothing like the NGE. Wasnt the NGE basically removing 60% of the classes and making everything pathetically easy or something?</p><p>GU57 doesnt have much in the way of gameplay changes as far as I can see. The new UI is nice, the new spell animations are hilariously bad.</p><p>IMO those animations are enough to put anyone off subbing to EQ2 for life!</p></blockquote><p>Yes, the RAF feature still works, but it's not of much use to someone who doesn't already have friends playing EQ2. And the majority of the new players I've run into had come here alone. RAF, from what I've seen, is mostly being used to powerlevel alts (or speed up AA gain).</p><p>I'm NOT saying GU57 and EQ2X are equivalent to the SWG NGE -- far from it, in fact. What I'm saying is that Smedley promised that things were different now, that the company would listen to players.. yet it is clear that (at least on the forums) the players really don't like the direction this is going. And requests for changes have been met with "Sorry, but this is going in anyway."</p><p>Agreed on the spell animations. Had I been met with that -- and seeing the SOGA models as soon as I started to create a character -- I doubt I ever would have subscribed to this game.</p>

[Travleer33]

<p>Only thing I disagree with the OP on is new spell effects.</p><p>what good are the current spell effects if you cant even turn them on?</p><p>...... oh ... The OP does not raid. Maybe thats why people think current particle effects are fine.</p>

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>I'm afraid I'm jaded. SOE have never kept any promise they make so I assume anything they say is worthy of Fox news. Like the futility of posting feedback threads. However it makes me feel better anyway posting feedback that wont happen or be read lol.</p><p>Anyway this is doomed to failure if, as you say, the first thing a new player sees is vintage 2005 SOGA models and the downgraded spell animations. Fun times.</p>

[Morrias]

<p><cite>Travleer33 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Only thing I disagree with the OP on is new spell effects.</p><p>what good are the current spell effects if you cant even turn them on?</p><p>...... oh ... The OP does not raid. Maybe thats why people think current particle effects are fine.</p></blockquote><p>I raid with the current effects, they are perfectly fine, these new ones give a harder hit to my FPS actually.. which REALLY confuses me.. mabye cuz im a brig and we put off firework shows now, cant see the [Removed for Content] mob under them until Dispatch goes off and the mob turns all kinds of pretty colors..</p>

[Dasein]

<p><cite>Kizdane@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Borkola wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>ruthlessG619 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>LOL at comparing a f2p server to the NGE. Crying because you can't transfer a toon from the f2p servers to live? You do know they will have ACTUAL items with stats for sale in the marketplace right? With the ease of leveling (its so easy its PATHETIC) if a player on the f2p server wants to play on live MAKE A NEW CHARACTER on a live server. </p><p>LOL at SOGA models being default setting, you act as if they removed the original models all together. </p><p>HOW THE HELL are you alienating the player base when f2p is on its own server? </p><p>Half of the current spell graphics and animations were useless and too much spell graphic crap. Try raiding on full graphics will all that crap flying in your face. </p><p>I've excepted this game for what it is(someday a quality game with a MEANINGFUL DEATH PENALTY will come out but until then), its been remade into a WoW wannabe, seems like you haven't </p></blockquote><p>Did you even read what I wrote?</p><p>I'm not comparing EQ2X with the NGE. The point is that Smedley promised they would listen to the playerbase, yet that is clearly not happening. Rothgar has already stated, for example, that the Station Cash button will stay as part of the XP bar -- regardless of how players feel.</p><p>Believe it or not, this isn't at all about what I think of the changes. It's about the fact the current playerbase is being ignored, and unwanted changes are going forward... because SOE thinks it knows best. This is precisely what Smedley promised would not happen again.</p></blockquote><p>You are confusing listening to the player base with allowing those who complain loudest on the forums to dictate SOE policy.</p><p>They have listened to the playerbase, and the presence of many threads with quite a bit of developer feedback, and changes made as a result of this feedback is evidence of this. However, that doesn't mean that players will always get everything they want.</p></blockquote><p>Smokejumper himself stated very clearly that the players have spoken, and that we do not want F2P.  Sony is going ahead with it anyway.  The OP was spot on, in my opinion.  Smedly hears, but he doesn't listen.  He's too busy counting the dollar signs.</p></blockquote><p>No, he said that players do not want F2P on the current live servers. He's giving people what they want, which is now turning out to be what we don't want. In effect, he's demonstrated why listening to the players is not always a good idea.</p>

[Barx]

<p>It's both. They listed when we said we didn't want expanded RMT, but then rather than ask what we'd want to see in a free-to-play verison they just came up with it and presented it post-facto. That's half listening.</p>

[Alenna]

<p><cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It's both. They listed when we said we didn't want expanded RMT, but then <strong>rather than ask what we'd want to see in a free-to-play verison</strong> they just came up with it and presented it post-facto. That's half listening.</p></blockquote><p>QFT</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>The developers had to appologize to the playerbase in EQlive as well, when they released Gates of Discord, featuring content intended for a level increase, but did not increase levels with it, and did not listen to the playerbase about what was actually NEEDED for certain classes to function.</p>

[Dasein]

<p><cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It's both. They listed when we said we didn't want expanded RMT, but then rather than ask what we'd want to see in a free-to-play verison they just came up with it and presented it post-facto. That's half listening.</p></blockquote><p>In the sense that you have to start somewhere, sure. They posted the alpha version of the EQ2x, and are now revising it, most likely incorporating player feedback. Your point would carry more weight if they simply went live with EQ2x in it's current form, without ever informing us, but that is not the case.</p>

[Geothe]

<p><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It's both. They listed when we said we didn't want expanded RMT, but then rather than ask what we'd want to see in a free-to-play verison they just came up with it and presented it post-facto. That's half listening.</p></blockquote><p>In the sense that you have to start somewhere, sure. They posted the alpha version of the EQ2x, and are now revising it, most likely incorporating player feedback.</p></blockquote><p>And the hundreds of feedback posts on how this will kill live servers since they are axing all influx of new players has been addressed how?Oh wait, it is only ignored.</p>

[Dasein]

<p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It's both. They listed when we said we didn't want expanded RMT, but then rather than ask what we'd want to see in a free-to-play verison they just came up with it and presented it post-facto. That's half listening.</p></blockquote><p>In the sense that you have to start somewhere, sure. They posted the alpha version of the EQ2x, and are now revising it, most likely incorporating player feedback.</p></blockquote><p>And the hundreds of feedback posts on how this will kill live servers since they are axing all influx of new players has been addressed how?Oh wait, it is only ignored.</p></blockquote><p>How much of that is legitimate feedback and how much is your doom and gloom predictions that accompany any change the poster disagrees with? If the devs listened to every player who claimed achange would kill the game, nothing would ever get done.</p><p>That said, what evidence is there to suggest that this feedback is being specifically ignored, and not merely not acted upon yet?</p>

[Geothe]

<p><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>How much of that is legitimate feedback and how much is your doom and gloom predictions that accompany any change the poster disagrees with? If the devs listened to every player who claimed achange would kill the game, nothing would ever get done.<p>That said, what evidence is there to suggest that this feedback is being specifically ignored, and not merely not acted upon yet?</p></blockquote><p>Doom and Gloom predictions?Not even close.Basic Logic?Yes.If youA) Prevent all new trial periods on the live serversB) Allow only 1 way copies from live to EQ2X, and not the other way around.There will be no new blood influx into the new servers at all.Couple that with the fact on these boards there is a link at the top to the EQ2X boards, while on the EQ2X boards there is not a recipricating link, it all points to the fact that SoE is intending to slowly choke out the current servers to force everyone to convert to their EQ2X servers.</p><p>As for what evidence suggests the feedback is being ignored?Its called years of experience observing SOEs Standard Operating Procedure:"Open a feedback thread, and ignore everything there"</p>

[Rick777]

<p><cite>Borkola wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think what you (and many) are missing is that in the long term F2P will make SOE much more money than the live servers will.  Why do you think it's a one way funnel from EQ2 to EQ2x?  It's not that SOE doesn't care about it's customer base, although it's that they only care about their customer base in relation to how much money they bring in, as any good business should, they are not an altruistic non-profit agency designed to make us feel good.  Live servers will survive is some muted EQ1 sort of existence where the players who didn't quit over SOE's business decision, or the players who didn't migrate to the more populated EQ2x servers stay.</p><p>I take any corporate apology with a huge grain of salt, it's called PR and crocodile tears are a dime a dozen.</p></blockquote><p>That was the plan with SWG, as well -- "If we change this game to make it appeal to the masses, sure, we'll lose many of our current subscribers but we will more than make up for it with new players."</p><p>TBH, I think the model they propose isn't going to work out as well for them as they think. The restrictions on Bronze and Silver players are so harsh that the only option that will make the game playable is to upgrade to Gold, and that's what they hope players will do -- as well as spending money in the Marketplace.</p><p>The DDO model worked out great, and LOTRO is following in its footsteps. But the difference between Turbine's model and SOE's is huge. The average amount an active DDO player spends (including sub fees from VIP members) is roughly half that a full subscriber pays. Yet they make much more money than they did in a subscriber only model -- because they make up for it in numbers. SOE wants to have it's cake and eat it too by increasing the amount spent per player. That would be great for them, as a business, if it actually worked out that way. I sincerely doubt it will, however.</p><p>As for corporate apologies, well... what can I say? Lesson learned, I suppose.</p></blockquote><p>Have you played DDO?  I've been playing it on and off, just played a couple of hours today in fact.  It's quite a different experience and while it's enjoyable for a day or 2, it's the reason I will never fully switch to a F2P type game.  You have to pay to ding level 4 for example.  The community sucks as well, the level chat is insanely worse than EQ will ever be, and the grouping is just willy nilly, very quick and impersonal.  Yeah I know these are things EQ2 is headed towards slowly but surely, but you just don't realize how much F2P games put that F2P in your face.  I'm still not used to buying a scroll and having the little message that tells me there are great deals on scrolls in the DDO store.</p><p>You are correct in that quantity over quality observations, there is a TON more players in DDO,  but the quality of players themselves and the "social" experience is seriously lacking.  It's a cool game, especially if you like to just putz around and solo dungeons and stuff, but it kind of gets boring real quick.  It's a shame that EQ2 will be like this one day.</p>

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>You dont have to pay to ding level 4. I have two accounts, one is premium (ie I spent money in the store) and the other is completely F2P. I have a level 6 Cleric on the F2P account.</p><p>You can get to level 20 (max) going completely F2P if you wish. Yeah its not the best way but its possible and you can use any gear you find and money with no restrictions.</p><p>I've never had a problem with the community. There's no definite line between roles in the game which makes it a little tough to figure out who is doing what to be sure but that makes it more interesting.</p>

[Rick777]

<p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You dont have to pay to ding level 4. I have two accounts, one is premium (ie I spent money in the store) and the other is completely F2P. I have a level 6 Cleric on the F2P account.</p><p>You can get to level 20 (max) going completely F2P if you wish. Yeah its not the best way but its possible and you can use any gear you find and money with no restrictions.</p><p>I've never had a problem with the community. There's no definite line between roles in the game which makes it a little tough to figure out who is doing what to be sure but that makes it more interesting.</p></blockquote><p>You do have to buy level 4 with turbine points.  It's possible you saved up enough favor from doing hard and elite quests to have enough points to get your level 4, so yeah it's possible to do it with no money technically, but it does cost points which other than favor you have to pay real life cash to get.</p>

[Kain-UK]

<p><cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You dont have to pay to ding level 4. I have two accounts, one is premium (ie I spent money in the store) and the other is completely F2P. I have a level 6 Cleric on the F2P account.</p><p>You can get to level 20 (max) going completely F2P if you wish. Yeah its not the best way but its possible and you can use any gear you find and money with no restrictions.</p><p>I've never had a problem with the community. There's no definite line between roles in the game which makes it a little tough to figure out who is doing what to be sure but that makes it more interesting.</p></blockquote><p>You do have to buy level 4 with turbine points.  It's possible you saved up enough favor from doing hard and elite quests to have enough points to get your level 4, so yeah it's possible to do it with no money technically, but it does cost points which other than favor you have to pay real life cash to get.</p></blockquote><p>Actually you don't.</p><p>If you're a completely F2P player, you have to buy a sigil that allows you to get higher than level 4, or loot one from a dungeon. Yes, there is a completely free option if you're willing to sit at level 4 and grind to find the item that will allow you to do it. You can also spend a small amount of cash so you go premium and level without any form of restrictions.</p>

[Rick777]

<p><cite>Archan@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You dont have to pay to ding level 4. I have two accounts, one is premium (ie I spent money in the store) and the other is completely F2P. I have a level 6 Cleric on the F2P account.</p><p>You can get to level 20 (max) going completely F2P if you wish. Yeah its not the best way but its possible and you can use any gear you find and money with no restrictions.</p><p>I've never had a problem with the community. There's no definite line between roles in the game which makes it a little tough to figure out who is doing what to be sure but that makes it more interesting.</p></blockquote><p>You do have to buy level 4 with turbine points.  It's possible you saved up enough favor from doing hard and elite quests to have enough points to get your level 4, so yeah it's possible to do it with no money technically, but it does cost points which other than favor you have to pay real life cash to get.</p></blockquote><p>Actually you don't.</p><p>If you're a completely F2P player, you have to buy a sigil that allows you to get higher than level 4, or loot one from a dungeon. Yes, there is a completely free option if you're willing to sit at level 4 and grind to find the item that will allow you to do it. You can also spend a small amount of cash so you go premium and level without any form of restrictions.</p></blockquote><p>I'll have to look into the sigil, but by how you are describing it, it seems like either work a lot grinding the item, or just pay the cash to level.</p>

[Quicksilver74]

<p>+1 to the OP, and I'm surprised this thread hasn't been erased yet. </p>

[Kain-UK]

<p><cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Archan@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You dont have to pay to ding level 4. I have two accounts, one is premium (ie I spent money in the store) and the other is completely F2P. I have a level 6 Cleric on the F2P account.</p><p>You can get to level 20 (max) going completely F2P if you wish. Yeah its not the best way but its possible and you can use any gear you find and money with no restrictions.</p><p>I've never had a problem with the community. There's no definite line between roles in the game which makes it a little tough to figure out who is doing what to be sure but that makes it more interesting.</p></blockquote><p>You do have to buy level 4 with turbine points.  It's possible you saved up enough favor from doing hard and elite quests to have enough points to get your level 4, so yeah it's possible to do it with no money technically, but it does cost points which other than favor you have to pay real life cash to get.</p></blockquote><p>Actually you don't.</p><p>If you're a completely F2P player, you have to buy a sigil that allows you to get higher than level 4, or loot one from a dungeon. Yes, there is a completely free option if you're willing to sit at level 4 and grind to find the item that will allow you to do it. You can also spend a small amount of cash so you go premium and level without any form of restrictions.</p></blockquote><p>I'll have to look into the sigil, but by how you are describing it, it seems like either work a lot grinding the item, or just pay the cash to level.</p></blockquote><p>Pretty much. I was already a premium player because I snagged some Turbine Points during the beta, so got to ignore the restrictions. You can just run solo/normal quests in the marketplace. They drop in the chests at the end of the dungeon...</p><p>...which if you're faction grinding to get free points, you'll likely have one drop in your lap pretty easy anyways. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Striikor]

<p>Those who don't see it please get real!</p><p>What they are putting out reflects their mindset.</p><p>Uuuuhhh, let see spend $200 on a yearly subscription .... ahhh no ..... set up a $15/month charge on my credit card to see if I like this game ..... ahhhhh no .... Free? Hell yeah!</p><p>Copy toon from live to F2P, check.</p><p>Methods to get on live ..... reroll after building a Toon for a couple months ..... no!</p><p>Problems getting a group for high end content on F2P .... abosolutely. Groups with three cripples in it? Very Fun! Satisfied and liking the game Hell no!</p><p>Their 'plan' damages their effort for F2P and will not sustain the player base on Live.</p><p>How much fun is grouping going to be with such a mix of crippled toons? They have no way in place to build current server populations and at the same time they are going to jink the new players.</p><p> Which zones do you think they will be able to do with a mix of bronze, silver, gold? Do you seriously think they are not going to 'tune'zones to make F2P happy? Do you really think they will be able to keep them separate from live? Go ahead and try to tell me they have kept PvP and PvE distinct and separate, not affecting one another negatively.</p><p>If this goes in place the F2P will be unhappy before long because of the disparate groups they will get. New blood will not be coming to Live severs when there is a 'free' option. If live is not getting additions to the population then the populations will shrink. I have rarely seen such a lose/lose business plan.</p><p>To top it all off there has and will be significant development time NOT spent on getting current Live problems corrected, class balance issues and new content.</p><p>To me this sounds like a giant sucking sound. Which is sad, it could easily be a win/win rather than a lose/lose.</p><p>Use F2P to get them introduced to the game</p><p>By then time they decide they want to go Gold or Platinum they will be used to the Big SC button. They will have leveled their toons to where they can. They will have gained some experience and learned to love the game.</p><p>When they upgrade to gold or platinum put them on a live server. None of the SC items compare to drops on high end zones or raid items. Players coming over will be no threat to the current player base. They will not be so green as what we get today. And they will be used to using SOE's SC. Yeah for SOE! Yeah for current player base, yeah for new players.</p><p>Instead they will ruin the old and the new with this effort.</p><p>Oh an +1 to the OP</p>

[Hellswrath]

<p>I'll also give a +1 to the OP.  This echoes a lot of what I've heard from guildies and other friends in game about these decisions.  It seems like a whole lot of bad news all at once.</p><p>SOE has already acquired a dubious reputation in the MMO genre that has certainly put off people from trying more of their games.  The SWG NGE may be the most notable example before now, but it certainly isn't the only example.  IMHO, this will trump the NGE for it's negative effect on the game as a whole and it's population, but only time will tell.</p><p>What I <em>can</em> say for sure is that my guild is giving them until after Fan Faire to come out with more information that mitigates the damage being done, or to change their minds.  Since SOE likes to unveil a lot of details at Fan Faire, and we have some people going, I'm advocating this to my friends as well.  If they are going to leave, make it a decision based on logic and not a /ragequit.  Not that I blame anyone leaving just from the disregard SOE has already shown for us, but it's always better to make reasoned decisions.</p><p>However, if/when I do leave EQ2, I plan to never play another SOE game again.  Their reputation and credibility as a company that values their consumers is shot in my book.</p>

[Bilil]

<p>I -am- a new player. Just started during the last week. And this frankly seems appaling and infuriating. I don't want the game to go down already. I'm actually enjoying it. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Rick777]

<p><cite>Archan@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Archan@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You dont have to pay to ding level 4. I have two accounts, one is premium (ie I spent money in the store) and the other is completely F2P. I have a level 6 Cleric on the F2P account.</p><p>You can get to level 20 (max) going completely F2P if you wish. Yeah its not the best way but its possible and you can use any gear you find and money with no restrictions.</p><p>I've never had a problem with the community. There's no definite line between roles in the game which makes it a little tough to figure out who is doing what to be sure but that makes it more interesting.</p></blockquote><p>You do have to buy level 4 with turbine points.  It's possible you saved up enough favor from doing hard and elite quests to have enough points to get your level 4, so yeah it's possible to do it with no money technically, but it does cost points which other than favor you have to pay real life cash to get.</p></blockquote><p>Actually you don't.</p><p>If you're a completely F2P player, you have to buy a sigil that allows you to get higher than level 4, or loot one from a dungeon. Yes, there is a completely free option if you're willing to sit at level 4 and grind to find the item that will allow you to do it. You can also spend a small amount of cash so you go premium and level without any form of restrictions.</p></blockquote><p>I'll have to look into the sigil, but by how you are describing it, it seems like either work a lot grinding the item, or just pay the cash to level.</p></blockquote><p>Pretty much. I was already a premium player because I snagged some Turbine Points during the beta, so got to ignore the restrictions. You can just run solo/normal quests in the marketplace. They drop in the chests at the end of the dungeon...</p><p>...which if you're faction grinding to get free points, you'll likely have one drop in your lap pretty easy anyways. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Gah, I hope I didn't sell a level sigil by accident, lol.</p>

[kcirrot]

<p>This is nothing like NGE. Why?</p><p>NO CURRENT PLAYER will log in on August 17, 2010 and find any change other than perhaps a slow day because people are trying out the F2P servers.   When NGE went live, players logged into to find that they had to change their class, and play an entirely different game than they were playing the day before.</p><p>SOE has already made changes to the subscription matrix and other items based on feedback.  No players don't get everything they want, but feedback has an effect.   NGE was pushed live with little to no feedback affecting it until months later.</p><p>I know MMO players loves them some drama, but let's keep in perspective.</p>

[KNINE]

<p><cite>Borkola wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>ruthlessG619 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>LOL at comparing a f2p server to the NGE. Crying because you can't transfer a toon from the f2p servers to live? You do know they will have ACTUAL items with stats for sale in the marketplace right? With the ease of leveling (its so easy its PATHETIC) if a player on the f2p server wants to play on live MAKE A NEW CHARACTER on a live server. </p><p>LOL at SOGA models being default setting, you act as if they removed the original models all together. </p><p>HOW THE HELL are you alienating the player base when f2p is on its own server? </p><p>Half of the current spell graphics and animations were useless and too much spell graphic crap. Try raiding on full graphics will all that crap flying in your face. </p><p>I've excepted this game for what it is(someday a quality game with a MEANINGFUL DEATH PENALTY will come out but until then), its been remade into a WoW wannabe, seems like you haven't </p></blockquote><p>Did you even read what I wrote?</p><p>I'm not comparing EQ2X with the NGE. The point is that Smedley promised they would listen to the playerbase, yet that is clearly not happening. Rothgar has already stated, for example, that the Station Cash button will stay as part of the XP bar -- regardless of how players feel.</p><p>Believe it or not, this isn't at all about what I think of the changes. It's about the fact the current playerbase is being ignored, and unwanted changes are going forward... because SOE thinks it knows best. This is precisely what Smedley promised would not happen again.</p></blockquote><p>kinda reminds you of battlegrounds huh</p>

[anti1029]

<p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>How much of that is legitimate feedback and how much is your doom and gloom predictions that accompany any change the poster disagrees with? If the devs listened to every player who claimed achange would kill the game, nothing would ever get done.<p>That said, what evidence is there to suggest that this feedback is being specifically ignored, and not merely not acted upon yet?</p></blockquote><p>Doom and Gloom predictions?Not even close.Basic Logic?Yes.If youA) <span style="color: #ff6600;"><strong>Prevent all new trial periods on the live servers</strong></span>B) Allow only 1 way copies from live to EQ2X, and not the other way around.There will be no new blood influx into the new servers at all.Couple that with the fact on these boards there is a link at the top to the EQ2X boards, while on the EQ2X boards there is not a recipricating link, it all points to the fact that SoE is intending to slowly choke out the current servers to force everyone to convert to their EQ2X servers.</p><p>As for what evidence suggests the feedback is being ignored?Its called years of experience observing SOEs Standard Operating Procedure:"Open a feedback thread, and ignore everything there"</p></blockquote><p>This is the point that is the biggest issue here. (highlighted in orange). If you cant see the problem with that you are inept or ignoring.</p>

[Blu]

<p>+1 to OP</p>

[Juggernaught]

<p>+1 to the op as well.</p><p>It was 2007 the same year a mass layoff occurred at SOE. I know I can find a lot of the EoF team over at 38 Studios working on a kick a$% project (Funny how all of their time with SOE ended right after EoF). Then comes March 13, 2008, Sony Online Entertainment announced that <a title="Sony Computer Entertainment" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Computer_Entertainment">Sony Computer Entertainment</a> will have direct control over SOE. </p><p>Still waiting on a response from a "Red Name" from a few PMs about how to contact SCE customer service. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Phaso]

<p><cite>Juggernaught wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>+1 to the op as well.</p><p>It was 2007 the same year a mass layoff occurred at SOE. I know I can find a lot of the EoF team over at 38 Studios working on a kick a$% project (Funny how all of their time with SOE ended right after EoF). Then comes March 13, 2008, Sony Online Entertainment announced that <a title="Sony Computer Entertainment" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Computer_Entertainment">Sony Computer Entertainment</a> will have direct control over SOE. </p><p>Still waiting on a response from a "Red Name" from a few PMs about how to contact SCE customer service. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>No need to wait for their response... <a href="http://us.playstation.com/corporate/ouroffices/index.htm" target="_blank">http://us.playstation.com/corporate...fices/index.htm</a></p>

[Juggernaught]

<p><cite>Phaso@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Juggernaught wrote:</cite></p><p>No need to wait for their response... <a href="http://us.playstation.com/corporate/ouroffices/index.htm" target="_blank">http://us.playstation.com/corporate...fices/index.htm</a></p></blockquote><p>Good find! I went through what I though was most of Sony's sites. Thanks again!</p>

[Laenai]

<p>+1 to the OP</p><p>Kinda breaks my heart a little to know that EQ2 is now on par with such classics as Evony. Maybe we'll get pop up ads with nothing but cleavage in them for EQ2 also.</p>

[ElnAckom]

<p>Huge +1 to the OP. This is <em>exactly</em> what I've been talking about. It's not unreasonable to revisit this statement in the context of current EQ2 development. Regardless of implementation specifics, when it comes to the direction of the game the ghosts of Galaxies past are indeed haunting Norrath. Excellent quote, OP.</p>

[Myrien]

<p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>How much of that is legitimate feedback and how much is your doom and gloom predictions that accompany any change the poster disagrees with? If the devs listened to every player who claimed achange would kill the game, nothing would ever get done.<p>That said, what evidence is there to suggest that this feedback is being specifically ignored, and not merely not acted upon yet?</p></blockquote><p>Doom and Gloom predictions?Not even close.Basic Logic?Yes.If youA) Prevent all new trial periods on the live serversB) Allow only 1 way copies from live to EQ2X, and not the other way around.There will be no new blood influx into the new servers at all.Couple that with the fact on these boards there is a link at the top to the EQ2X boards, while on the EQ2X boards there is not a recipricating link, it all points to the fact that SoE is intending to slowly choke out the current servers to force everyone to convert to their EQ2X servers.</p><p>As for what evidence suggests the feedback is being ignored?Its called years of experience observing SOEs Standard Operating Procedure:"Open a feedback thread, and ignore everything there"</p></blockquote><p>This.  With the launch of EQ2X, the only way for new players to trial EQ2 will be via RAF.  All 'new blood' will end up on EQ2X, and won't benefit live servers at all. What's more, someone tell me when was the last time you saw EQ2 on a store's shelves?  The last time I saw EQ2 on a store's shelf was when SF was released eight months ago.  Best Buy had two or three copies.  Now?  I haven't seen one in the city in awhile.  How are new players supposed to try the game if they can't find it to purchase it?  I've been giving money to SOE for 5+ years now, because I saw EQ2 on the shelf at WalMart.  It boggles my mind, actually, how Sony can justify needing RMT, when they make no effort to market the game or make it available for retail purchase.</p>

[guillero]

<p><cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Those who don't see it please get real!</p><p>What they are putting out reflects their mindset.</p><p>Uuuuhhh, let see spend $200 on a yearly subscription .... ahhh no ..... set up a $15/month charge on my credit card to see if I like this game ..... ahhhhh no .... Free? Hell yeah!</p><p>Copy toon from live to F2P, check.</p><p>Methods to get on live ..... reroll after building a Toon for a couple months ..... no!</p><p>Problems getting a group for high end content on F2P .... abosolutely. Groups with three cripples in it? Very Fun! Satisfied and liking the game Hell no!</p><p>Their 'plan' damages their effort for F2P and will not sustain the player base on Live.</p><p>How much fun is grouping going to be with such a mix of crippled toons? They have no way in place to build current server populations and at the same time they are going to jink the new players.</p><p> Which zones do you think they will be able to do with a mix of bronze, silver, gold? Do you seriously think they are not going to 'tune'zones to make F2P happy? Do you really think they will be able to keep them separate from live? Go ahead and try to tell me they have kept PvP and PvE distinct and separate, not affecting one another negatively.</p><p>If this goes in place the F2P will be unhappy before long because of the disparate groups they will get. New blood will not be coming to Live severs when there is a 'free' option. If live is not getting additions to the population then the populations will shrink. I have rarely seen such a lose/lose business plan.</p><p>To top it all off there has and will be significant development time NOT spent on getting current Live problems corrected, class balance issues and new content.</p><p>To me this sounds like a giant sucking sound. Which is sad, it could easily be a win/win rather than a lose/lose.</p><p>Use F2P to get them introduced to the game</p><p>By then time they decide they want to go Gold or Platinum they will be used to the Big SC button. They will have leveled their toons to where they can. They will have gained some experience and learned to love the game.</p><p>When they upgrade to gold or platinum put them on a live server. None of the SC items compare to drops on high end zones or raid items. Players coming over will be no threat to the current player base. They will not be so green as what we get today. And they will be used to using SOE's SC. Yeah for SOE! Yeah for current player base, yeah for new players.</p><p>Instead they will ruin the old and the new with this effort.</p><p>Oh an +1 to the OP</p></blockquote><p>$OE has been a failure company for a long long time. All because of their CEO. In any other company he would have been fired as CEO long ago!</p><p>The sad thing is, that $OE has had always great artistic talent and the ability to make really great games!</p><p>But then the corporate "suit" mill starts kicking in and mr. CEO starts pouring out one FAILURE bussiness strategy after the other. And doing that for years!</p><p>ALL $OE games FAIL to retain their subscription numbers!  Why? Because they FAIL to have a clear, well executed bussiness strategy and longterm focus!</p><p>Not to mention that they can't even get any of their products on the shelves in any store outside the US! Unbelievable! It's basically the number ONE reason they are doing so bad!</p><p>All they have done over the years is lying, lying and more lying to their customers. Experimenting with all kinds of stuff (NGE, Exchange Servers, Station Cash and now EQ2X) in desperation to make '<em>more</em>' money to cover up for their mistakes and loss of subscribers. But end up just [Removed for Content] off even more customers in the process and chasing them away. That they end up making even less money.Hence, the several rounds of lay offs that has been happening!</p><p>And now with EQ2X about to launch in 2 weeks. It's going to turn out into an even bigger dissaster! They couldn't have come up with a worse F2P bussiness plan and strategy than this!  It's like putting a final, very big and fat, nail on the EQ2 coffin.</p><p>Instead of constantly laying off their talented devs and artists. They should have kicked out the CEO and replace it with someone more competent that can move the company into a more positive direction.</p><p>As lets face it! Their CEO (every one knows his name) hasn't been in any single positive light in the media for YEARS! Ever since the NGE debacle.  Unbelievable.</p><p>That's why me and my gf have finally given up and canceled our accounts. Never ever any $OE game ever again!</p><p>EQ2 was fun and a great game while it lasted. It's a shame.</p>

[Myrien]

<p><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kizdane@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Borkola wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>ruthlessG619 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>LOL at comparing a f2p server to the NGE. Crying because you can't transfer a toon from the f2p servers to live? You do know they will have ACTUAL items with stats for sale in the marketplace right? With the ease of leveling (its so easy its PATHETIC) if a player on the f2p server wants to play on live MAKE A NEW CHARACTER on a live server. </p><p>LOL at SOGA models being default setting, you act as if they removed the original models all together. </p><p>HOW THE HELL are you alienating the player base when f2p is on its own server? </p><p>Half of the current spell graphics and animations were useless and too much spell graphic crap. Try raiding on full graphics will all that crap flying in your face. </p><p>I've excepted this game for what it is(someday a quality game with a MEANINGFUL DEATH PENALTY will come out but until then), its been remade into a WoW wannabe, seems like you haven't </p></blockquote><p>Did you even read what I wrote?</p><p>I'm not comparing EQ2X with the NGE. The point is that Smedley promised they would listen to the playerbase, yet that is clearly not happening. Rothgar has already stated, for example, that the Station Cash button will stay as part of the XP bar -- regardless of how players feel.</p><p>Believe it or not, this isn't at all about what I think of the changes. It's about the fact the current playerbase is being ignored, and unwanted changes are going forward... because SOE thinks it knows best. This is precisely what Smedley promised would not happen again.</p></blockquote><p>You are confusing listening to the player base with allowing those who complain loudest on the forums to dictate SOE policy.</p><p>They have listened to the playerbase, and the presence of many threads with quite a bit of developer feedback, and changes made as a result of this feedback is evidence of this. However, that doesn't mean that players will always get everything they want.</p></blockquote><p>Smokejumper himself stated very clearly that the players have spoken, and that we do not want F2P.  Sony is going ahead with it anyway.  The OP was spot on, in my opinion.  Smedly hears, but he doesn't listen.  He's too busy counting the dollar signs.</p></blockquote><p>No, he said that players do not want F2P on the current live servers. He's giving people what they want, which is now turning out to be what we don't want. In effect, he's demonstrated why listening to the players is not always a good idea.</p></blockquote><p>Incorrect.  Please see <a href="http://www.massively.com/2010/07/27/exclusive-eqii-f2p-interview-with-dave-georgeson/" target="_blank">this interview</a> as a reference.  Dave's actual comment, and I quote, is "<span style="text-decoration: underline;"><em><strong>The players have told us they didn't want this stuff</strong></em></span> and that's why it's a completely separate area, but at the same time if they end up going over to that service because that's what they really want to play, that's kind of a win too. So we'll find out based on what they actually do..." (emphasis mine) Nowhere did Dave say that we didn't want it on the live servers.  He just said that we don't want it.  In one sentence, Dave blatantly says that the players don't want this stuff (RMT).  In the next, he says that they're putting it in a separate area, in case we actually do want it.  He's basically saying "We know that you guys have said that you don't want this stuff, but we think that you actually do want it, so we're putting it right here for you."  That's the same thing that SOE management has always done: Tell us that they know what we want, better than we know what we want.</p>

[Syndarin]

<p>+7 to the OP</p>

[Neiloch]

<p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>How much of that is legitimate feedback and how much is your doom and gloom predictions that accompany any change the poster disagrees with? If the devs listened to every player who claimed achange would kill the game, nothing would ever get done.<p>That said, what evidence is there to suggest that this feedback is being specifically ignored, and not merely not acted upon yet?</p></blockquote><p>Doom and Gloom predictions?Not even close.Basic Logic?Yes.<strong>If youA) Prevent all new trial periods on the live serversB) Allow only 1 way copies from live to EQ2X, and not the other way around.There will be no new blood influx into the new servers at all.Couple that with the fact on these boards there is a link at the top to the EQ2X boards, while on the EQ2X boards there is not a recipricating link, it all points to the fact that SoE is intending to slowly choke out the current servers to force everyone to convert to their EQ2X servers.</strong></p><p>As for what evidence suggests the feedback is being ignored?Its called years of experience observing SOEs Standard Operating Procedure:"Open a feedback thread, and ignore everything there"</p></blockquote><p>This is what makes me mad the most. not that they are releasing F2P servers with cash shops, it's that they're releasing them at the expense of new players on Live servers.</p><p>Even if every single F2P player is some how made completely aware of the regular servers, they would want to play for free or a trial first. The only way to do that is on the EQ2X servers. So say they like the game now, do you think they are going to reroll and start over from scratch after buying the box for EQ2 P2P or pay a couple of bucks/subscribe on EQ2X and keep playing their same characters? If you think even 1/4 of those people would buy the box your ignorant.</p><p>I won't believe for a second that they are treating EQ2 and EQ2X equally until:</p><ul><li>EQ2 gets to keep a trial</li><li>transfers/copies are allowed <strong>FROM</strong> EQ2X <strong>TO</strong> EQ2. </li></ul><p>That's just to start. They have done everything they can to keep new players from going to EQ2 and direct them to EQ2X short of denying EQ2's existence and not allowing any more new accounts for it.</p><p>This is also another symptom of their arrogance in thinking they know better than any one when it comes to EQ2. Rangers complain for years with piles of data as back up only to have them to a quick study and tell ranger's they are fine. We fervently oppose RMT systems but they think we some how want it anyway, think exploiting a technicality in our wishes is acceptable like trying to find a loop hold in a contract. They don't change our game but they release a competing one they favor. We tell them we want a focus on fixing and improving current content and class balance and they just keep pushing 'new player' content repeatedly with no balance changes.</p><p>So yes that it how it is, they make feedback threads and just 'hear' and don't 'listen'. The fact changes are done that a player suggests is purely incidental of their current plans. If it cotradicts their plans in any way, no deal.</p><p>It's one thing not to do every little thing the player base says or demands, which I agree with. It's quite another to ignore almost everything and in some cases do the exact opposite of what players want. Even preemptively saying we don't want something before rumors of it being made even start seems to have no effect.</p>

[guillero]

<p><cite>Neiloch@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is what makes me mad the most. not that they are releasing F2P servers with cash shops, it's that they're releasing them at the expense of new players on Live servers.</p><p>Even if every single F2P player is some how made completely aware of the regular servers, they would want to play for free or a trial first. The only way to do that is on the EQ2X servers. So say they like the game now, do you think they are going to reroll and start over from scratch after buying the box for EQ2 P2P or pay a couple of bucks/subscribe on EQ2X and keep playing their same characters? If you think even 1/4 of those people would buy the box your ignorant.</p><p>I won't believe for a second that they are treating EQ2 and EQ2X equally until EQ2 gets to keep a trial, and transfers/copies are allowed <strong>FROM</strong> EQ2X <strong>TO</strong> EQ2. They have done everything they can to keep new players from going to EQ2 and direct them to EQ2X short of denying EQ2's existence and not allowing any more new accounts for it.</p><p>This is also another symptom of their arrogance in thinking they know better than any one when it comes to EQ2. Rangers complain for years with piles of data as back up only to have them to a quick study and tell ranger's they are fine. We fervently oppose RMT systems but they think we some how want it anyway, or think exploiting a technicality in our wishes is acceptable like trying to find a loop hold in a contract. They don't change our game so they release a competing one they favor. We tell them we want a focus on fixing and improving current content and class balance and they just keep pushing 'new player' content repeatedly with no balance changes.</p><p>It's one thing not to do every little thing the player base says or demands, which I agree with. It's quite another to ignore almost everything and in some cases do the exact opposite of what players want. Even preemptively saying we don't want something before rumors of it being made even start seems to have no effect.</p></blockquote><p>$OE doesn't give a [Removed for Content] about their customers. Never have and never will. Just your wallet.</p><p>They don't give a [Removed for Content] about you, me nor anyone else on EQ2 Live.</p><p>EQ2X is going to be IT! And will get full focus and full atention from now on. You either take it or take the high way.</p><p>We took the high way and canceled our accounts.</p><p>Because if anyone thinks that they are doing EQ2X like they do now, because we wanted it that way. Then they are extremely naive!</p><p>They are doing EQ2X deliberately!  They want EQ2 Live to die!  And hope that most of you are foolish enough to take the bait, pay up 2500 smedly bucks for a tranfer and move over to EQ2X !</p><p>Why else do you think they gonna kill off the Trials for EQ2 Live? Open up your eyes.</p>

[StaticLex]

<p>The nice thing is at least it's not 1995 and the only MMO around is UO.  Give some other games out there a whirl, you might be surprised.</p>

[Banditman]

<p>Rift should be ready for release by the time these changes begin to take their unavoidable toll on EQ2 Live.  It's sad to finally see the inevitable end of a game I've played since 1999, but, I can't see any way that SOE can spin this to make it anything but their forcing F2P / RMT down our throats finally.</p>

[Borkola]

<p><cite>Jerokane@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They are doing EQ2X deliberately!  They want EQ2 Live to die!  And hope that most of you are foolish enough to take the bait, pay up 2500 smedly bucks for a tranfer and move over to EQ2X !</p></blockquote><p>It's worse than that... try 3500 SmedleyBucks, and you don't get to keep your plat or any items other than no-trade and attuned gear. (Yes, it's a copy, but just what good will having that character stuck on EQ2Live be when the servers are dead?)</p>

[StormQueen]

<p>    You know, I have loved this game from the beginning. But the F2P setup WILL cause the live servers to languish and die.  You think they are really going to invest any more time/resources in the Live servers? Why would they? Yes, if it's coincidental, then it'll be released to both.  But you watch.   No more GM help on Live servers, Guides may find themselves out of a job, the servers themselves (and their hardware) will get pushed to the back of the queue.</p><p>The Trial account being forced to start only on the F2P servers is the most glaringly obvious tactic.  SOE, you aren't even being subtle here.  No one is going to start on a F2P server, decide to stay, then go and do a Live subscription (completely starting over).  Not going to happen.  The Live servers will all join Vox and Bazaar in the "dying fast" category within a year.  Just watch. </p><p>And putting those  SOGA models as the default for character creation? Why? Are you after the kiddie crowd? They aren't the ones with the disposable income.  You've already got FreeRealms for that.</p><p>The 35-50 crowd has been more and more the player demographic for this game. </p><p>I am bitterly disappointed at the direction SOE is going with this game and indeed their entire MMO lineup.  I was waiting to see what the new game would be, but heck, now I don't even know if I'll bother to check it out.  This whole <strong>FORCED ATTRITION </strong>of the Live servers has done to me what revamps, cancelled character model improvements, game updates, broken classes, poorly-designed raids, and window-dressing expansions have failed to do: it has infuriated me to the point that I have canceled 2 of my 3 accounts, and I'm only holding one open to play *very" casually with friends once in a while.  Even that may go by the wayside in the months to come. </p><p>Before any of you reading this thread dismiss my commentary as "oh, just someone leaving", consider this:</p><p>5 accounts in my household:  4 are now cancelled.  One of the cancelled one was Station Access.  That's a lot of money. SOE is betting the store (no pun intended) that what I stopped paying will be more than offset by the RMTs coming in on the Extended servers. Fine. I really hope it works out for you, but I am NOT happy about it.  Most of my entire guild is moving to another game to raid, so that's where I'll be spending most of my time (and money).</p>

[Juggernaught]

<p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Rift should be ready for release by the time these changes begin to take their unavoidable toll on EQ2 Live.  It's sad to finally see the inevitable end of a game I've played since 1999, but, I can't see any way that SOE can spin this to make it anything but their forcing F2P / RMT down our throats finally.</p></blockquote><p>Agreed. You might want to check out the 38 Studios project as well, both games look to be something worthy of a subscription. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></p><p>I too am sadden by the way things are going. I've considered going back into EQ for a while just to wait and see what happens with EQ2. At least then I can go back to some of my old stomping grounds for a last hoorah.</p>

[Rick777]

<p>TERA online also looks completely amazing.  I'm just grinding my time away 3 nights a week raiding in EQ2, but there is a lot of good stuff on the horizon that I'm definitely going to look at.</p>

[jamzez]

<p><em><strong>Face the truth it's just a cash grab and soe has no clue what it just did to the EVERQUEST IP.</strong></em></p><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p><strong><em>FF14</em></strong></p><p><strong><em>RIFTS</em></strong></p><p><strong><em>TERA</em></strong></p><p><strong><em>38 STUDIOS</em></strong></p><p><strong><em>ARCH AGE ( a ftp mmo on the crysis engine)</em></strong></p>

[Outkasted2006]

<p><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Borkola wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>ruthlessG619 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>LOL at comparing a f2p server to the NGE. Crying because you can't transfer a toon from the f2p servers to live? You do know they will have ACTUAL items with stats for sale in the marketplace right? With the ease of leveling (its so easy its PATHETIC) if a player on the f2p server wants to play on live MAKE A NEW CHARACTER on a live server. </p><p>LOL at SOGA models being default setting, you act as if they removed the original models all together. </p><p>HOW THE HELL are you alienating the player base when f2p is on its own server? </p><p>Half of the current spell graphics and animations were useless and too much spell graphic crap. Try raiding on full graphics will all that crap flying in your face. </p><p>I've excepted this game for what it is(someday a quality game with a MEANINGFUL DEATH PENALTY will come out but until then), its been remade into a WoW wannabe, seems like you haven't </p></blockquote><p>Did you even read what I wrote?</p><p>I'm not comparing EQ2X with the NGE. The point is that Smedley promised they would listen to the playerbase, yet that is clearly not happening. Rothgar has already stated, for example, that the Station Cash button will stay as part of the XP bar -- regardless of how players feel.</p><p>Believe it or not, this isn't at all about what I think of the changes. It's about the fact the current playerbase is being ignored, and unwanted changes are going forward... because SOE thinks it knows best. This is precisely what Smedley promised would not happen again.</p></blockquote><p>You are confusing listening to the player base with allowing those who complain loudest on the forums to dictate SOE policy.</p><p>They have listened to the playerbase, and the presence of many threads with quite a bit of developer feedback, and changes made as a result of this feedback is evidence of this. However, that doesn't mean that players will always get everything they want.</p></blockquote><p>Replying to a thread doesnt mean your listening. Making excuses doesnt mean your listening. SOE has and never will back out of a decision it has already made. It for some reason (must be a lot of guys running the show, with a lot of insecurity) Because they are sure worried about what people might think if they agree what they were going to do was indeed a bad idea. So instead of admitting fault before hand, we ALWAYS get the afteraffect apology, well we didn't realize this......we didn't see this coming, or this was caused by this.. (aka fighter heal nerf inc). When in almost all cases had they LISTENED to the player base, things couldve been avoided.</p>

[ElnAckom]

<p><cite>Outkasted2006 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>When in almost all cases had they LISTENED to the player base, things couldve been avoided.</p></blockquote><p>All the more reason these things need to be carefully, articulately outlined by a group of people expressing their positions from a stakeholder's standpoint. Excellent point, Outkasted. The old adage "'tis better to ask forgiveness than to ask permission" is alive and well in San Diego!</p>

[Dasein]

<p><cite>Outkasted2006 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Borkola wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>ruthlessG619 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>LOL at comparing a f2p server to the NGE. Crying because you can't transfer a toon from the f2p servers to live? You do know they will have ACTUAL items with stats for sale in the marketplace right? With the ease of leveling (its so easy its PATHETIC) if a player on the f2p server wants to play on live MAKE A NEW CHARACTER on a live server. </p><p>LOL at SOGA models being default setting, you act as if they removed the original models all together. </p><p>HOW THE HELL are you alienating the player base when f2p is on its own server? </p><p>Half of the current spell graphics and animations were useless and too much spell graphic crap. Try raiding on full graphics will all that crap flying in your face. </p><p>I've excepted this game for what it is(someday a quality game with a MEANINGFUL DEATH PENALTY will come out but until then), its been remade into a WoW wannabe, seems like you haven't </p></blockquote><p>Did you even read what I wrote?</p><p>I'm not comparing EQ2X with the NGE. The point is that Smedley promised they would listen to the playerbase, yet that is clearly not happening. Rothgar has already stated, for example, that the Station Cash button will stay as part of the XP bar -- regardless of how players feel.</p><p>Believe it or not, this isn't at all about what I think of the changes. It's about the fact the current playerbase is being ignored, and unwanted changes are going forward... because SOE thinks it knows best. This is precisely what Smedley promised would not happen again.</p></blockquote><p>You are confusing listening to the player base with allowing those who complain loudest on the forums to dictate SOE policy.</p><p>They have listened to the playerbase, and the presence of many threads with quite a bit of developer feedback, and changes made as a result of this feedback is evidence of this. However, that doesn't mean that players will always get everything they want.</p></blockquote><p>Replying to a thread doesnt mean your listening. Making excuses doesnt mean your listening. SOE has and never will back out of a decision it has already made. It for some reason (must be a lot of guys running the show, with a lot of insecurity) Because they are sure worried about what people might think if they agree what they were going to do was indeed a bad idea. So instead of admitting fault before hand, we ALWAYS get the afteraffect apology, well we didn't realize this......we didn't see this coming, or this was caused by this.. (aka fighter heal nerf inc). When in almost all cases had they LISTENED to the player base, things couldve been avoided.</p></blockquote><p>Item scaling?</p><p>Fighter revamp?</p><p>What happened to those?</p>

[Myrien]

<p><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Outkasted2006 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Borkola wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>ruthlessG619 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>LOL at comparing a f2p server to the NGE. Crying because you can't transfer a toon from the f2p servers to live? You do know they will have ACTUAL items with stats for sale in the marketplace right? With the ease of leveling (its so easy its PATHETIC) if a player on the f2p server wants to play on live MAKE A NEW CHARACTER on a live server. </p><p>LOL at SOGA models being default setting, you act as if they removed the original models all together. </p><p>HOW THE HELL are you alienating the player base when f2p is on its own server? </p><p>Half of the current spell graphics and animations were useless and too much spell graphic crap. Try raiding on full graphics will all that crap flying in your face. </p><p>I've excepted this game for what it is(someday a quality game with a MEANINGFUL DEATH PENALTY will come out but until then), its been remade into a WoW wannabe, seems like you haven't </p></blockquote><p>Did you even read what I wrote?</p><p>I'm not comparing EQ2X with the NGE. The point is that Smedley promised they would listen to the playerbase, yet that is clearly not happening. Rothgar has already stated, for example, that the Station Cash button will stay as part of the XP bar -- regardless of how players feel.</p><p>Believe it or not, this isn't at all about what I think of the changes. It's about the fact the current playerbase is being ignored, and unwanted changes are going forward... because SOE thinks it knows best. This is precisely what Smedley promised would not happen again.</p></blockquote><p>You are confusing listening to the player base with allowing those who complain loudest on the forums to dictate SOE policy.</p><p>They have listened to the playerbase, and the presence of many threads with quite a bit of developer feedback, and changes made as a result of this feedback is evidence of this. However, that doesn't mean that players will always get everything they want.</p></blockquote><p>Replying to a thread doesnt mean your listening. Making excuses doesnt mean your listening. SOE has and never will back out of a decision it has already made. It for some reason (must be a lot of guys running the show, with a lot of insecurity) Because they are sure worried about what people might think if they agree what they were going to do was indeed a bad idea. So instead of admitting fault before hand, we ALWAYS get the afteraffect apology, well we didn't realize this......we didn't see this coming, or this was caused by this.. (aka fighter heal nerf inc). When in almost all cases had they LISTENED to the player base, things couldve been avoided.</p></blockquote><p>Item scaling?</p><p>Fighter revamp?</p><p>What happened to those?</p></blockquote><p>The nerf of fighter heal crits is the first step in a fighter revamp, IMO.  Rather than dump it on us all at once, it's probably going to get pushed on us in smaller increments.  You know though, you listed two incidents where there was a huge public outcry and SOE relented.  I'm sure that we could list ten times that amount of times when the community said "Hell no" and SOE went ahead.  GU13, anyone?</p>

[d1anaw]

<p><cite>Borkola wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><em><span>"With the NGE, I'm sorry about the mistake we made," he told us. "We screwed up and didn't listen to the fans when we should have, and it's not a mistake we're going to make again."</span></em></p><p><span>[...]</span></p><p><span><em>And what was the mistake SOE made that Smedley is sorry for?</em></span></p><p><span><em>"[The mistake was] to not just think we know the right direction without bringing the fans into the mix," he explained. "We made the cardinal sin of not listening, but assuming, and we were wrong."</em></span></p><p>Source:<a href="http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/interviews/2301-John-Smedley-Exclusive-Interview-with-the-SOE-CEO.2" target="_blank">http://www.warcry.com/articles/view...h-the-SOE-CEO.2</a></p><p>I think it's been made pretty clear that the bulk of the current subscriber base does not want EQ2X to go live. Some would be okay with it -- maybe even welcome it -- it if it was used to encourage players to move to EQ2 Live as regular subscribers, but that's clearly not the plan.</p><p>EQ2X players cannot transfer to EQ2 Live -- and if this is allowed in the future, no doubt it'll come at a substantial price tag. The removal of the 14-day free trial for EQ2 Live makes it clear that SOE does not want new players on EQ2 Live. The intention is for our servers to wither and die, as SOE believes it can make more money per player if everyone is on EQ2X -- current players be damned.</p><p>Our new producer is already talking about merging the Live servers down "if" they shrink as a result of this change.</p><p>Nor do we want:</p><ul><li>The 14-day free trial for new players to be removed</li><li>The big fat SmedleyBucks button glued to our screen on EQ2 Live</li><li>Character creation defaulting to SOGA</li><li>The new uglified combat animations and spell effects</li></ul><p>Yet it is obvious these changes will go live regardless of how we feel. We've already been told the SmedleyBucks button will not be removed regardless of player feedback.</p><p>We didn't want LoN, the SmedleyBucks store, the removal of Freeport and Qeynos starting islands, and a number of other changes that went live regardless of how the players felt.</p><p>Alienating the player base in an attempt to get fresh meat in is a mistake that SOE already made in SWG. And how well did that work out?</p><p>It's too bad that in 2007 when John Smedley apologized for the NGE -- and promised that SOE would listen to player feedback in the future, and would stop assuming that they, alone, knew what was best -- I (and no doubt many others) believed him and forgave.</p><p>It's not a mistake I'll make again.</p></blockquote><p>Do not presume to speak for me. While I may not like some of the things that they have chosen to do, such as LON, which I absolutely cannot get into, I simply choose not to play, problem solved. Do not tell me or anyone else what I should or should not choose to participate in. You do not have the right. If I choose to use station cash, I have every right to do so and you do not have the right to tell me that I have no right to have the option. How I choose to play does not affect your game and I don't tell you how to play. If you don't like it, buh bye, don't let the door hit you in the behind on the way out.</p>

[d1anaw]

<p><cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think what you (and many) are missing is that in the long term F2P will make SOE much more money than the live servers will.  Why do you think it's a one way funnel from EQ2 to EQ2x?  It's not that SOE doesn't care about it's customer base, although it's that they only care about their customer base in relation to how much money they bring in, as any good business should, they are not an altruistic non-profit agency designed to make us feel good.  Live servers will survive is some muted EQ1 sort of existence where the players who didn't quit over SOE's business decision, or the players who didn't migrate to the more populated EQ2x servers stay.</p><p>I take any corporate apology with a huge grain of salt, it's called PR and crocodile tears are a dime a dozen.</p></blockquote><p>:::gasp::::how dare they want to make a profit. If you think their customer service sucks, feel free to cancel your subscription. No one is forcing you to pay or play. What a country.</p>

[d1anaw]

<p><cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think what you (and many) are missing is that in the long term F2P will make SOE much more money than the live servers will.  Why do you think it's a one way funnel from EQ2 to EQ2x?  It's not that SOE doesn't care about it's customer base, although it's that they only care about their customer base in relation to how much money they bring in, as any good business should, they are not an altruistic non-profit agency designed to make us feel good.  Live servers will survive is some muted EQ1 sort of existence where the players who didn't quit over SOE's business decision, or the players who didn't migrate to the more populated EQ2x servers stay.</p><p>I take any corporate apology with a huge grain of salt, it's called PR and crocodile tears are a dime a dozen.</p></blockquote><p>sorry double post</p>

[Wurm]

<p><cite>d1anaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think what you (and many) are missing is that in the long term F2P will make SOE much more money than the live servers will.  Why do you think it's a one way funnel from EQ2 to EQ2x?  It's not that SOE doesn't care about it's customer base, although it's that they only care about their customer base in relation to how much money they bring in, as any good business should, they are not an altruistic non-profit agency designed to make us feel good.  Live servers will survive is some muted EQ1 sort of existence where the players who didn't quit over SOE's business decision, or the players who didn't migrate to the more populated EQ2x servers stay.</p><p>I take any corporate apology with a huge grain of salt, it's called PR and crocodile tears are a dime a dozen.</p></blockquote><p>:::gasp::::how dare they want to make a profit. If you think their customer service sucks, feel free to cancel your subscription. No one is forcing you to pay or play. What a country.</p></blockquote><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /> They already were/are making a profit with EQ2 and instead of sending us down the RMT highway they could of :::gasp::: advertised EQ2... What an idea!</p>

[guillero]

<p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>d1anaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think what you (and many) are missing is that in the long term F2P will make SOE much more money than the live servers will.  Why do you think it's a one way funnel from EQ2 to EQ2x?  It's not that SOE doesn't care about it's customer base, although it's that they only care about their customer base in relation to how much money they bring in, as any good business should, they are not an altruistic non-profit agency designed to make us feel good.  Live servers will survive is some muted EQ1 sort of existence where the players who didn't quit over SOE's business decision, or the players who didn't migrate to the more populated EQ2x servers stay.</p><p>I take any corporate apology with a huge grain of salt, it's called PR and crocodile tears are a dime a dozen.</p></blockquote><p>:::gasp::::how dare they want to make a profit. If you think their customer service sucks, feel free to cancel your subscription. No one is forcing you to pay or play. What a country.</p></blockquote><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /> They already were/are making a profit with EQ2 and instead of sending us down the RMT highway they could of :::gasp::: advertised EQ2... What an idea!</p></blockquote><p>It's even worse. They don't even have international distribution!</p><p>If they actually ever bothered to have one and manage to get boxes on the shelves in stores outside the US, there would have been just as much or even more international / EU servers as US ones.</p><p>With proper advertisement and distrubution you create a ton more awareness of your products. And so they could have had double the subscription numbers then they have now!</p><p>Here in Europe there is not a single store that has any SOE product on the shelves. None!  Except a very few that might have some old dusty box in the bargain bin somewhere.</p><p>When much smaller studios with much smaller budgets manage to get their games/products internationally distributed and on the shelves all around the world! Then it's an absolute disgrace that SOE is not be able to do so themselves.</p><p>That SOE is in financial trouble is all their own fault!!  We (EU community) have been saying for years to SOE to get their international distribution and global awareness of their products sorted!!  They never bothered.</p><p>Remember the outcry earlier this year from the International Community with the availability (or more like total lack of) of the Sentinels Fate expac??</p><p>It took them till the very last minute to get something sorted out for the international customers!  They lost a lot of those customers alone with that debacle!</p><p>Enough said.</p>

[Wurm]

<p>Oh I know, I live in Germany and every single thing you said is true.</p>

[Rick777]

<p><cite>d1anaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think what you (and many) are missing is that in the long term F2P will make SOE much more money than the live servers will.  Why do you think it's a one way funnel from EQ2 to EQ2x?  It's not that SOE doesn't care about it's customer base, although it's that they only care about their customer base in relation to how much money they bring in, as any good business should, they are not an altruistic non-profit agency designed to make us feel good.  Live servers will survive is some muted EQ1 sort of existence where the players who didn't quit over SOE's business decision, or the players who didn't migrate to the more populated EQ2x servers stay.</p><p>I take any corporate apology with a huge grain of salt, it's called PR and crocodile tears are a dime a dozen.</p></blockquote><p>:::gasp::::how dare they want to make a profit. If you think their customer service sucks, feel free to cancel your subscription. No one is forcing you to pay or play. What a country.</p></blockquote><p>What's wrong with you?  I'm not complaining about their customer service, I'm giving others a reality check.  Read a bit more carefully before inserting foot into mouth.</p>

[Rick777]

<p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>d1anaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think what you (and many) are missing is that in the long term F2P will make SOE much more money than the live servers will.  Why do you think it's a one way funnel from EQ2 to EQ2x?  It's not that SOE doesn't care about it's customer base, although it's that they only care about their customer base in relation to how much money they bring in, as any good business should, they are not an altruistic non-profit agency designed to make us feel good.  Live servers will survive is some muted EQ1 sort of existence where the players who didn't quit over SOE's business decision, or the players who didn't migrate to the more populated EQ2x servers stay.</p><p>I take any corporate apology with a huge grain of salt, it's called PR and crocodile tears are a dime a dozen.</p></blockquote><p>:::gasp::::how dare they want to make a profit. If you think their customer service sucks, feel free to cancel your subscription. No one is forcing you to pay or play. What a country.</p></blockquote><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /> They already were/are making a profit with EQ2 and instead of sending us down the RMT highway they could of :::gasp::: advertised EQ2... What an idea!</p></blockquote><p>Yep completely agree.  They dropped the ball big time and let WoW take over.  I see SOE as the Windows Mobile of the world where they completely had the market in their hands, but they dropped the ball and let Apple completely take over.</p>

[Ranja]

<p><cite>Aule@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I know I personally will never purchase a SOE product again.</blockquote><p>+1</p>

[Dasein]

<p><cite>Kizdane@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Outkasted2006 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Borkola wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>ruthlessG619 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>LOL at comparing a f2p server to the NGE. Crying because you can't transfer a toon from the f2p servers to live? You do know they will have ACTUAL items with stats for sale in the marketplace right? With the ease of leveling (its so easy its PATHETIC) if a player on the f2p server wants to play on live MAKE A NEW CHARACTER on a live server. </p><p>LOL at SOGA models being default setting, you act as if they removed the original models all together. </p><p>HOW THE HELL are you alienating the player base when f2p is on its own server? </p><p>Half of the current spell graphics and animations were useless and too much spell graphic crap. Try raiding on full graphics will all that crap flying in your face. </p><p>I've excepted this game for what it is(someday a quality game with a MEANINGFUL DEATH PENALTY will come out but until then), its been remade into a WoW wannabe, seems like you haven't </p></blockquote><p>Did you even read what I wrote?</p><p>I'm not comparing EQ2X with the NGE. The point is that Smedley promised they would listen to the playerbase, yet that is clearly not happening. Rothgar has already stated, for example, that the Station Cash button will stay as part of the XP bar -- regardless of how players feel.</p><p>Believe it or not, this isn't at all about what I think of the changes. It's about the fact the current playerbase is being ignored, and unwanted changes are going forward... because SOE thinks it knows best. This is precisely what Smedley promised would not happen again.</p></blockquote><p>You are confusing listening to the player base with allowing those who complain loudest on the forums to dictate SOE policy.</p><p>They have listened to the playerbase, and the presence of many threads with quite a bit of developer feedback, and changes made as a result of this feedback is evidence of this. However, that doesn't mean that players will always get everything they want.</p></blockquote><p>Replying to a thread doesnt mean your listening. Making excuses doesnt mean your listening. SOE has and never will back out of a decision it has already made. It for some reason (must be a lot of guys running the show, with a lot of insecurity) Because they are sure worried about what people might think if they agree what they were going to do was indeed a bad idea. So instead of admitting fault before hand, we ALWAYS get the afteraffect apology, well we didn't realize this......we didn't see this coming, or this was caused by this.. (aka fighter heal nerf inc). When in almost all cases had they LISTENED to the player base, things couldve been avoided.</p></blockquote><p>Item scaling?</p><p>Fighter revamp?</p><p>What happened to those?</p></blockquote><p>The nerf of fighter heal crits is the first step in a fighter revamp, IMO.  Rather than dump it on us all at once, it's probably going to get pushed on us in smaller increments.  You know though, you listed two incidents where there was a huge public outcry and SOE relented.  I'm sure that we could list ten times that amount of times when the community said "Hell no" and SOE went ahead.  GU13, anyone?</p></blockquote><p>Seeing as how the first fighter revamp focused much more on agro and stances, that doesn't really make much sense. Besides, it's not as though people in general disagree that something needs to be done with fighter balance, it's just a question of what.</p><p>While there was a largely negative response leading up to GU13, many of the changes were fundamentally necessary for the game. There were some massive issues with class balance that had to be addressed if the game was to expand.</p><p>The fact of the matter is, SOE will at times need to make decisions that are unpopular. Couple this with an inherently conservative playerbase, and you see virtually every proposed change garner some negative response. Nonetheless, SOE has relented on some big issues, and virtually every major update has gone through periods of review, with many changes being made as a result of player feedback.</p>

[Gargamel]

<p>I bought eq2 at launch.. got the collectors edition box (metal box, with the big paper map and even pouch and coin) also had an all access account since 2004.</p><p>This Fee to Play crap literally reduced my ambition for the game by 1/2.</p><p>If it weren't for my guild and friends there I would so be out of here.  Next time a vote comes up to move the guild to another game, I know how I'll vote.  When is KOTR coming out anyway?</p>

[The-Plethora]

<p>Other than a quick play of one of the online final fantasy games this is the only MMO I have really played in depth but I am pretty sure its my last.</p><p>Whilst I love the game and have played for years I don't like the road these games (and I include other publishers in this) are going down and clearly Everquest 3 will be like this from the start where you 'need' items to advance so unlikely something I would try and if I had known when I subbed to EQ2 all those years ago that this would be where it had ended up then I probably wouldnt have started either.</p><p>However, should I stop my subscription to the game I wouldnt be against my account being converted to some sort of basic free account in the future so I could have a look for nostalgia purposes if its here to stay.</p><p>See you in Crysis or Quake I guess <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[camynyraen]

<p><cite>Borkola wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>ruthlessG619 wrote</cite></p><p>Rothgar has already stated, for example, that the Station Cash button will stay as part of the XP bar -- regardless of how players feel.</p></blockquote><p>Would you point out the post he made that staement for me please?</p><p>If this is true then im cancelling the last three accounts I still have, I hate station cash but can live with it not being in my face all the time. I utterly refuse to continue to subscribe to a game where I need to download a new UI to not be [Removed for Content] off every time I log on by a big fat pay us more button.</p><p>The xp bar with its cluster of icons looks terrible on my widescreen monitor also. Please toss the idea around of being able to move the icons or snap them to the top or bottom of the xp bar or make a xp window hotbar or something that can be moved around the xp bar so I can organise the bollocks that is this new UI into something that makes sense and is usable.</p><p>Edited for random spelling...</p>

[Rick777]

<p><cite>camynyraen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Borkola wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>ruthlessG619 wrote</cite></p><p>Rothgar has already stated, for example, that the Station Cash button will stay as part of the XP bar -- regardless of how players feel.</p></blockquote><p>Would you point out the post he made that staement for me please?</p><p>If this is true then im cancelling the last three accounts I still have, I hate station cash but can live with it not being in my face all the time. I utterly refuse to continue to subscribe to a game where I need to download a new UI to not be [Removed for Content] off every time I log on by a big fat pay us more button.</p><p>The xp bar with its cluster of icons looks terrible on my widescreen monitor also. Please toss the idea around of being able to move the icons or snap them to the top or bottom of the xp bar or make a xp window hotbar or something that can be moved around the xp bar so I can organise the bollocks that is this new UI into something that makes sense and is usable.</p><p>Edited for random spelling...</p></blockquote><p>He's very clearly made this statement several times, it's not under his control as he's just doing what he's told.</p>

[camynyraen]

<p>That part I can understand. I make changes to the games I work on that im not particularly excited about because im told to.</p><p>Rothgar would you please have whoever is asking you to make these changes consider the sheer number of people who want an alternative to having this new UI?</p><p>I am not saying dont do it, I am just asking could we please have an "Use old UI" button or something.</p>

[Hellswrath]

<p><cite>camynyraen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Would you point out the post he made that staement for me please?</p><p>If this is true then im cancelling the last three accounts I still have, I hate station cash but can live with it not being in my face all the time. I utterly refuse to continue to subscribe to a game where I need to download a new UI to not be [Removed for Content] off every time I log on by a big fat pay us more button.</p></blockquote><p>Here was the initial confirmation:</p><p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hellswrath@Blackburrow wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I want to know if this will be on all servers or just the EQ2X ones.  If all, then I would like to voice my extreme dislike of that idea.  The only way I want to see this happen on current servers is if they change their minds and make the current servers integrated with EQ2X.</p><p><span style="color: #00ffff;">Yes it will be on all servers.</span></p><p>On that same vein, get rid of the giant SC button, for the love of all that is holy.  Talk about bad taste.  It isn't hard to find SC or the marketplace as it is now.  There is already plenty of in-game advertising for it.  Please show some restraint and class here.</p><p><span style="color: #00ffff;">I can't make that decision.</span></p></blockquote></blockquote><p>And here's the definitive follow-up.</p><p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Sorry, but the EQII and SC buttons are still there.  This isn't something we can make a concession on, I checked.  This should however be a good compromise towards making the XP bar a little smaller.  Here's a screenshot in mini-mode.<p><img src="http://www.gregsplace.com/blogimages/xp-bar.png" width="432" height="57" /></p></blockquote><p>I would like to thank Rothgar for following up and posting the decision from on high.  This wasn't his choice, and I don't blame him at all.  Just wish those who made said decision would realize what a huge mistake this is.</p><p>A lot of the people I've talked to in game have a bigger problem with this than the knowledge that they are allowing our population to slowly die on the live servers.  However, I completely understand.  Population dying out will cause me move to another game eventually.  Ruining my immersion by putting the marketplace in my face all the time (even on live servers) will cause me to leave <em>now</em>.</p>

[Thunndar316]

<p>Why pay 40 bucks for a game and 15 bucks a month when you can get it for free?</p><p>The F2P people are not attached to this game as we are.  They will continue to play on the F2P servers and could care less about what they are missing.  Eventually there will be no new blood in the EQ2 Live servers and one by one, wither up and die.</p><p>Battlegrounds, and now F2P are two more nails in the PVE coffin.</p>

[ElnAckom]

<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><em>I would like to thank Rothgar for following up and posting the decision from on high.  This wasn't his choice, and I don't blame him at all.  Just wish those who made said decision would realize what a huge mistake this is.</em></p><p>100% agreed. Thank you very much for taking our concerns seriously, Rothgar, and for stating definitively that we were heard, we were relayed, and we were shot down. It means a <em>lot</em> to many of us that we're not barking up trees with no acorns, as it were. And as I've stated and many others have stated, we know that sometimes "on high" trumps "on the ground" concerns.</p><p>I'd still like whomever made the decision to come down here in the trenches and speak to us about it, but it's very, very important for the development team to take these things up the food chain, and tell us they've done so.</p><p>Three Iksar cheers for Rothgar. Unfortunately, Iksar cheers are awfully unpleasant for sssoftssskinsss, so sssorry in advance for any lacerationsss!</p>

[ruthlessG619]

<p><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Why pay 40 bucks for a game and 15 bucks a month when you can get it for free?</p><p>The F2P people are not attached to this game as we are.  They will continue to play on the F2P servers and could care less about what they are missing.  Eventually there will be no new blood in the EQ2 Live servers and one by one, wither up and die.</p><p>Battlegrounds, and now F2P are two more nails in the PVE coffin.</p></blockquote><p>Have any of you EVER played a FREE TO TRY (F2P) game? If you think people on the EQ2X servers will be getting the same game play we do then I have some doodoo to sell you that tastes like chicken. </p><p>Stop being doom and gloom and a SEPARATE server, first the bazaar server will kill the game then the PVP server will kill the game. LOL at the comment about no new blood on eq2 servers, that is already happening, so whats your point? </p>

[Maroger]

<p><cite>camynyraen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>That part I can understand. I make changes to the games I work on that im not particularly excited about because im told to.</p><p>Rothgar would you please have whoever is asking you to make these changes consider the sheer number of people who want an alternative to having this new UI?</p><p>I am not saying dont do it, I am just asking could we please have an "Use old UI" button or something.</p></blockquote><p>1. The majority of players neither post on nor read  these forums.</p><p>2, Are you sure that the majority of players ( including those who neither read nor post in these forums) are opposed to SC and SC buttons?</p><p>3. What makes you think a majority of players who POST and READ on these forums feel the way you do about these SC buttons - actually if you read the posts we are talking about a small group of players that you count on the fingers of one Hand.</p>

[Katz]

<p>The point is:  two years ago four of us played the trial together.  We were looking for a game to play.  Now, two years later, two of us are stilly playing continuously and the other two are playing off and on.   I don't have the SOE statistics, but that small group had a 50% excellent success rate and a 50% fair success rate. </p><p>I think they should revamp the trial.  Make it so people can communicate more easily with players and give the live servers a chance to continue to have new people join the game.</p>

[Wurm]

<p><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>camynyraen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>That part I can understand. I make changes to the games I work on that im not particularly excited about because im told to.</p><p>Rothgar would you please have whoever is asking you to make these changes consider the sheer number of people who want an alternative to having this new UI?</p><p>I am not saying dont do it, I am just asking could we please have an "Use old UI" button or something.</p></blockquote><p>1. The majority of players neither post on nor read  these forums.</p><p>2, Are you sure that the majority of players ( including those who neither read nor post in these forums) are opposed to SC and SC buttons?</p><p>3. What makes you think a majority of players who POST and READ on these forums feel the way you do about these SC buttons - actually if you read the posts we are talking about a small group of players that you count on the fingers of one Hand.</p></blockquote><p>I would be willing to bet you a large sum of money more people dislike the changes than like them. Enough people dislike the changes so much, that you hear them talking about them in world chat, something you normally never hear discussed.</p>

[Maroger]

<p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>camynyraen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>That part I can understand. I make changes to the games I work on that im not particularly excited about because im told to.</p><p>Rothgar would you please have whoever is asking you to make these changes consider the sheer number of people who want an alternative to having this new UI?</p><p>I am not saying dont do it, I am just asking could we please have an "Use old UI" button or something.</p></blockquote><p>1. The majority of players neither post on nor read  these forums.</p><p>2, Are you sure that the majority of players ( including those who neither read nor post in these forums) are opposed to SC and SC buttons?</p><p>3. What makes you think a majority of players who POST and READ on these forums feel the way you do about these SC buttons - actually if you read the posts we are talking about a small group of players that you count on the fingers of one Hand.</p></blockquote><p>I would be willing to bet you a large sum of money more people dislike the changes than like them. Enough people dislike the changes so much, that you hear them talking about them in world chat, something you normally never hear discussed.</p></blockquote><p>I don't consider dicussions on CHAT indicative of anything other than those on chat.  Unless they take a logon poll and then release the results as far as I am concerned it is all speculation. There are no hard facts or numbers to go on. A lot of people I know don't participate in World Chat or any chat at all.  It is rather like blogs - only the real fanatics show up - the rest of us just get on with our lives and our game.</p>

[callahan]

<p>SOE have always thought they knew better than the player base, and it has always been a case of "Like it or Leave".</p><p>This isn't as bad as SWGs NGE (RIP swg.bria).</p><p>However, the total lack of communication of their plans has been just like NGE, and EQ2 has been on the slippery slope to F2P/RMT for a while. They can deny it as much as they want.</p><p>It's simple, SOE don't want monthly subs, SC won't be optional fluff, and they're willing to gamble their current player base for more $ (potentially). They want everyone to use SC, and sell overpriced and on impulse virtual goods.</p><p>I hope they realise that only 5-10% of players actually spend money on those F2P games. SOE/Stockholders might be rubbing their grubby lil hands over a 1-2 million new players, and if its not bringing in the same cashflow as the current subscription model? /facepalm</p><p>DDO did a good job converting to F2P, but they didn't have anything to lose.</p><p>F2P/RMT model is just there to force you to become a VIP/Premium player (if you're looking for a long-term game)</p><p><em>a) You can't group with friends on different payment model (you don't have access to the zones, unless they pay $)</em></p><p><em>b) VIP get better loot from every single chest for same effort (loot potions)</em></p><p><em>c) Is so much impulse buying, some I'd consider cheating (popping a rez shrine in an instance for $5)</em></p><p><em>d) You end up paying more than you would for a monthly subscription.</em></p><p><em>e) Methods to stop you progressing unless you upgrade...etcetc</em></p><p>(DDO specific ones)</p><p>I wish SOE had added more depth and complexity to EQ2, to differentiate it from the MMOs that everyone else is getting bored of, rather than dumbing it down to their level. Again SOE is thinking about milking a short-term cash cow rather than sow a long-term reliable income. I bet they *suddenly* have no problem marketing these new F2P/RMT servers.</p>

[camynyraen]

<p><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>camynyraen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>That part I can understand. I make changes to the games I work on that im not particularly excited about because im told to.</p><p>Rothgar would you please have whoever is asking you to make these changes consider the <strong>sheer number of people </strong>who want an alternative to having this new UI?</p><p>I am not saying dont do it, I am just asking could we please have an "Use old UI" button or something.</p></blockquote><p>1. The majority of players neither post on nor read  these forums.</p><p>2, Are you sure that the majority of players ( including those who neither read nor post in these forums) are opposed to SC and SC buttons?</p><p>3. What makes you think a majority of players who POST and READ on these forums feel the way you do about these SC buttons - actually if you read the posts we are talking about a small group of players that you count on the fingers of one Hand.</p></blockquote><p>What makes you think that I think the majority of players anything, other then poor reading comprehension. Show me where I said majority.</p><p>Most people I have talked to dislike the idea of a station cash button at all times. Several people did not care and others said "I hope X UI is fixed quickly". We  are talking about maybe a dozen people and thirty or so accounts.</p><p>I said SHEER number of people. I am providing feedback in the feedback channel. I would appeciate an alternative. I still do not understand why F2P changes are being pushed to live servers.</p>

[Myrien]

<p><cite>camynyraen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>camynyraen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>That part I can understand. I make changes to the games I work on that im not particularly excited about because im told to.</p><p>Rothgar would you please have whoever is asking you to make these changes consider the <strong>sheer number of people </strong>who want an alternative to having this new UI?</p><p>I am not saying dont do it, I am just asking could we please have an "Use old UI" button or something.</p></blockquote><p>1. The majority of players neither post on nor read  these forums.</p><p>2, Are you sure that the majority of players ( including those who neither read nor post in these forums) are opposed to SC and SC buttons?</p><p>3. What makes you think a majority of players who POST and READ on these forums feel the way you do about these SC buttons - actually if you read the posts we are talking about a small group of players that you count on the fingers of one Hand.</p></blockquote><p>What makes you think that I think the majority of players anything, other then poor reading comprehension. Show me where I said majority.</p><p>Most people I have talked to dislike the idea of a station cash button at all times. Several people did not care and others said "I hope X UI is fixed quickly". We  are talking about maybe a dozen people and thirty or so accounts.</p><p>I said SHEER number of people. I am providing feedback in the feedback channel. I would appeciate an alternative. I still do not understand why F2P changes are being pushed to live servers.</p></blockquote><p>F2P changes are being pushed to the live servers, possibly for one or two reasons, with the first being the most plausible.</p><p>Reason #1: Smedley loves RMT, or anything else that will bring in more money.  RMT just happens to be the easiest way for Sony to get a little deeper into their customers' wallets.</p><p>Reason #2: By forcing the RMT interface on us now, we'll slowly be desensitized to it, and that would presumably make it easier for us when they roll us all into the RMT servers.  There's not really any data to back that up, other than the long and slippery slope that we started down when LoN was introduced.</p>

[camynyraen]

<p>I feel you on #2 and I figure the only reason that all the F2P stuff is being rolled into live is for when they merge the F2P and live servers.</p><p>Just asking for an alternative to switching UI's.</p>

[DeathtoGnomes]

<p>My experience with EQ2x...(i already have an all access pass)</p><p>installed the link and the very basic stuff and first thing i noticed is that it was pending to download 13gigs of files done in the background while playing I assume. </p><p>Next is character creation since i didnt copy a toon over, well you are limited to 6 races and you have to purchase additional races at -get this- 750 SC !!!!! My first thought was [Removed for Content] I pay for station access why cant i have a different race. i guess it was a all bullcrap you dont get squat for being a premium customer.</p><p>I just unstalled it all and since it left a few things behind on MY harddrive - which is bullcrap - i made sure to deleted it all included the LAME crippled launchpad.</p><p>Hell, I would rather go back to playing Runes of Magic or Atlanitca. And fyi, DDO is anti-freedom of speech so watch what you say there.</p><p>And remember we have Smedthejackass to thank for the EQ Timesink(tm) and the EQ2 Timesink(tm)</p>

[drakkenshie]

<p><cite>Travleer33 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Only thing I disagree with the OP on is new spell effects.</p><p>what good are the current spell effects if you cant even turn them on?</p><p>...... oh ... The OP does not raid. Maybe thats why people think current particle effects are fine.</p></blockquote><p>That's just silly.</p><p>If you have performance issues on a RAID, then turn things down.  Most custom UIs have a toggle for that.</p><p>Why break EVERYTHING to fix a problem in RAID when RAID players can already fix it?</p><p>Also, I do raid sometimes... and even with tons of players I generally don't have an issue with my mid-range system, and when I do I hit a toggle and it goes away.</p><p>Leave the raid toggle back and all is well.</p><p>If you have the skill to raid surely you can switch graphics settings too?</p>

[drakkenshie]

<p><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No, he said that players do not want F2P on the current live servers. He's giving people what they want, which is now turning out to be what we don't want. In effect, he's demonstrated why listening to the players is not always a good idea.</p></blockquote><p>Incorrect.</p><p>The players clearly indicated they didn't want F2P because it would hurt the live servers even if on a seperate server.</p><p>You can't claim listening to the players was a bad idea when that is not what happened.</p>