new Character creation defaults to SOGA? [Archive]

Rijacki

07-29-2010, 11:57 PM

I went to look at the new UI for character creation and, by default, the models were all in SOGA even though I have always never had any of the "alternate" models checked. I backed out and checked my options, none checked. My previously created characters were in standard as I expected. I clicked Create character and... SOGA for everything.Yes, there is a new button for "Alternate Appearance" right over gender, but.. umm.. SOGA is the alternate not the default and not what I have set as MY default.I clicked the Alternate Appearance button and switching to a different race or even a different gender it goes back to SOGA.I guess those are now what SOE development wants to be the "normal" models with the originals as the "alternate".The funny thing is, though, the icons are the original models. So, you click on an icon that looks one way and what shows up is NOTHING like that icon for any except the races which only have one appearance type.The default models for the character creation should be what the player has selected as his/her choice in options. If the devs want to have SOGA as the default selected for a new account, that would be fine. But let existing accounts have their chosen settings. Players choose specific options for their own reasons. You should respect at least some player choices.

Barx

07-30-2010, 11:54 AM

Sounds like a bug -- to my knowledge SOE only supports SOGA enough to keep it from breaking. It was something they did once back a while ago, they don't actively develop it (again to my knowledge).

Bunji

07-30-2010, 03:15 PM

Defaulting to SOGA during character creation was an intended change w/ GU57.

Yimway

07-30-2010, 03:16 PM

Eeeeew

kalaria

07-30-2010, 03:17 PM

<cite>Bunji wrote:</cite><blockquote>Defaulting to SOGA during character creation was an intended change w/ GU57.</blockquote>Why??Do you have to pay station cash then to have default appearances be the DEFAULT?

Barx

07-30-2010, 03:21 PM

<cite>Bunji wrote:</cite><blockquote>Defaulting to SOGA during character creation was an intended change w/ GU57.</blockquote>I really hope you're kidding. That's literally one of the most nonsensical things I've ever seen. That might be appropriate for say an eastern localized client, but making it the default for everyone is a "[Removed for Content]" kind of move.You have the regular models, which were SOE designed and are, IMHO, the true models of the game. Then you have SOGA, which was designed in partnership with another company (thats where the "SOGA" comes from) to specifically target eastern users. Why would you make that the default for everyone?Not to mention the instant contradiction where a player would see SOGA on char creation and then log in and either not see SOGA or find they have this odd "alternate" model thing checked.

FearDiadh

07-30-2010, 03:22 PM

I second Atan's comment.

Gungo

07-30-2010, 03:26 PM

<cite>Bunji wrote:</cite><blockquote>Defaulting to SOGA during character creation was an intended change w/ GU57.</blockquote>From every poll I have seen default models are slightly more preferred then SOGA models. Now I am all for making both character visualizations readily available to a new person to create, but SOGA has vastly less character optimizations then Standard models. Its honestly a disservice to your game to default to SOGA. I guess we will see how it goes.

Wurm

07-30-2010, 03:29 PM

<cite>Bunji wrote:</cite><blockquote>Defaulting to SOGA during character creation was an intended change w/ GU57.</blockquote>Makes sense since the largest market for RMT is Asia.

Loendar

07-30-2010, 03:30 PM

<cite>kalaria wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bunji wrote:</cite><blockquote>Defaulting to SOGA during character creation was an intended change w/ GU57.</blockquote>Why??Do you have to pay station cash then to have default appearances be the DEFAULT?</blockquote>Here is my guess. F2P games are the norm in Eastern markets - they have a million of them. So people expect to see the more 'exotic' looking models when they play a F2P game and SOE decided that they would make those the default going forward.Personally, I loathe the SOGA models.

Loendar

07-30-2010, 03:31 PM

<cite>Wurm wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bunji wrote:</cite><blockquote>Defaulting to SOGA during character creation was an intended change w/ GU57.</blockquote>Makes sense since the largest market for RMT is Asia.</blockquote>I was a wee bit too slow with my response. But...this. ;p

Anastasie

07-30-2010, 03:31 PM

Most of the Soga models are awful - especially for female characters (except for maybe human females). Why would you change the default starting models to the inferior ones?

Qinwena

07-30-2010, 03:31 PM

<cite>Bunji wrote:</cite><blockquote>Defaulting to SOGA during character creation was an intended change w/ GU57.</blockquote>To be clear though, we are still going to have the option to turn on the 'orignal' models though, correct?

Bunji

07-30-2010, 03:34 PM

<cite>Gashel@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bunji wrote:</cite><blockquote>Defaulting to SOGA during character creation was an intended change w/ GU57.</blockquote>To be clear though, we are still going to have the option to turn on the 'orignal' models though, correct?</blockquote>Correct.

Deson

07-30-2010, 03:37 PM

<cite>Bunji wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gashel@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bunji wrote:</cite><blockquote>Defaulting to SOGA during character creation was an intended change w/ GU57.</blockquote>To be clear though, we are still going to have the option to turn on the 'orignal' models though, correct?</blockquote>Correct.</blockquote>As default?I'd like the option to never see SOGA if I don't choose it.

Barx

07-30-2010, 03:37 PM

If it's really the asian market they're going after with that, then do what other MMOs do: Use the incoming IP of the user to determine whether original models (non-asia) or SOGA models (asia) are shown. Making it show the SOGA models (which in my experience people like significantly less on average) to everyone just to target that market is insane.

BlueEternal

07-30-2010, 03:37 PM

<cite>Bunji wrote:</cite><blockquote>Defaulting to SOGA during character creation was an intended change w/ GU57.</blockquote>Reason being?

Wurm

07-30-2010, 03:37 PM

I use soga mainly for the face and hair, but if they are going to go forward with this then they need to either get the original soga team working on upgrading or fixing the current soga models or buy them out and do them themselves.The females are too skinny (toothpick arms and legs on someone who has been swinging a broadsword thousands of times for over 6 years is laughable) and they all have Lordosis (google it).

Deson

07-30-2010, 03:38 PM

<cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>If it's really the asian market they're going after with that, then do what other MMOs do: Use the incoming IP of the user to determine whether original models (non-asia) or SOGA models (asia) are shown. Making it show the SOGA models (which in my experience people like significantly less on average) to everyone just to target that market is insane.</blockquote>Given everything else though is it surprising?New payers and all.

Deson

07-30-2010, 03:39 PM

<cite>Nariox@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bunji wrote:</cite><blockquote>Defaulting to SOGA during character creation was an intended change w/ GU57.</blockquote>Reason being?</blockquote><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite><blockquote>Makes sense since the largest market for RMT is Asia.</blockquote>

JenarieII

07-30-2010, 03:39 PM

This should really be reconsidered. Obviously it is presonal preference which someone choses to use but the default shoudl be the default we've had for the last six years.There's no reason to turn a great game into some other game. It feels like we aren't going to even recognize this one soon as the game we've loved for so long.

Barx

07-30-2010, 03:39 PM

<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>If it's really the asian market they're going after with that, then do what other MMOs do: Use the incoming IP of the user to determine whether original models (non-asia) or SOGA models (asia) are shown. Making it show the SOGA models (which in my experience people like significantly less on average) to everyone just to target that market is insane.</blockquote>Given everything else though is it surprising?New payers and all.</blockquote>Sadly it's not surprising. I thought what they were doing with EQ2X was bad enough, this is just salt in an open wound.

Deson

07-30-2010, 03:42 PM

<cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>If it's really the asian market they're going after with that, then do what other MMOs do: Use the incoming IP of the user to determine whether original models (non-asia) or SOGA models (asia) are shown. Making it show the SOGA models (which in my experience people like significantly less on average) to everyone just to target that market is insane.</blockquote>Given everything else though is it surprising?New payers and all.</blockquote>Sadly it's not surprising. I thought what they were doing with EQ2X was bad enough, this is just salt in an open wound.</blockquote>EQ2x, the new UI, this...at this point I'm amused just waiting to see what's next.

Xill

07-30-2010, 03:42 PM

Default SOGA models...Wow... blantently giving the finger to the western audience at this point.... Thanks guys, at least I know where I stand.

BlueEternal

07-30-2010, 03:46 PM

<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nariox@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bunji wrote:</cite><blockquote>Defaulting to SOGA during character creation was an intended change w/ GU57.</blockquote>Reason being?</blockquote><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite><blockquote>Makes sense since the largest market for RMT is Asia.</blockquote></blockquote>That's exactly what I've been thinking but I want to hear their pathetic excuse for this. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" />

Jesdyr

07-30-2010, 03:57 PM

<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote>EQ2x, the new UI, this...at this point I'm amused just waiting to see what's next.</blockquote>Well if this is an attempt to make it more Asian friendly ..You will now have to grind mobs for 20hrs to level from 80 to 81 .. with the RAF bonus and a 50% xp pot.

Xalmat

07-30-2010, 04:05 PM

<cite>Bunji wrote:</cite><blockquote>Defaulting to SOGA during character creation was an intended change w/ GU57.</blockquote>For the love of...This is yet another stupid change that GU57 is bringing.

Deson

07-30-2010, 04:08 PM

<cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote>EQ2x, the new UI, this...at this point I'm amused just waiting to see what's next.</blockquote>Well if this is an attempt to make it more Asian friendly ..You will now have to grind mobs for 20hrs to level from 80 to 81 .. with the RAF bonus and a 50% xp pot.</blockquote>I'd like to introduce you to the Hua Mein quests...

Lader

07-30-2010, 04:08 PM

the changes yall are making are starting to get beyond rediculous. The default we've had has worked fine for almost 6 years; this was an unneeded waste of time. If you keep going with this idiocy of turning eq2 into an asian game youre going to see many loyal customers jump ship.

Lantis

07-30-2010, 04:11 PM

Could we get even more widely unpopular changes done unilateraly to this game? This past week has been a nightmare.I hate SOGA. If I wanted an asian-looking game, I would play one, like Aion. What's wrong with you people? Did SOE get sold to some foreign interests who are hell bent on changing everything in this game to target a completely different audience than the current playerbase?

Calthine

07-30-2010, 04:12 PM

Just wanted to toss my vote for Original > SOGA. I hate the SOGA models. They look dour, dark, and unhappy.

Qinwena

07-30-2010, 04:14 PM

<cite>Bunji wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gashel@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bunji wrote:</cite><blockquote>Defaulting to SOGA during character creation was an intended change w/ GU57.</blockquote>To be clear though, we are still going to have the option to turn on the 'orignal' models though, correct?</blockquote>Correct.</blockquote>Ok, (sorry was in game decorating, heh) Thank you for clearing that up for me <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

LardLord

07-30-2010, 04:16 PM

<cite>Bunji wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gashel@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>To be clear though, we are still going to have the option to turn on the 'orignal' models though, correct?</blockquote>Correct.</blockquote>That option does not appear to be working on test. A friend who casually plays went to test to check out the animations, generally liked them, liked the UI, but he was flabbergasted by the SOGA thing...couldn't get to non-SOGA no matter what he did, and he really hates SOGA.

Wilderbeast25

07-30-2010, 04:19 PM

<cite>Bunji wrote:</cite><blockquote>Defaulting to SOGA during character creation was an intended change w/ GU57.</blockquote>I would really appreciate it if you didn't do this. Can you please explain the reasoning for this?

TheSpin

07-30-2010, 04:22 PM

With all the other changes this update...Maybe this should be the ONE SoE backs out on because it's not gonna make that big a difference to the new players either way.I hate the way my characters look in soga and I know I can change it for myself, but if soga is the default it means a lot more people will be seeing my soga model.How about you fix some of the uglier soga models before making this change (especially females, female barbarians are ugly and that's even going to be one of the free races in eq2x). Male barbarians look ok, though a well designed barbarian with the original model looks better.

Jesdyr

07-30-2010, 04:22 PM

<cite>Bella@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would really appreciate it if you didn't do this. Can you please explain the reasoning for this?</blockquote>Dave likes SOGA ?

EQPrime

07-30-2010, 04:26 PM

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just wanted to toss my vote for Original > SOGA. I hate the SOGA models. They look dour, dark, and unhappy.</blockquote>Calthine, I'm glad you posted. Maybe they will listen a little bit when even their most optimistic customers are against some of these changes.

Malacha

07-30-2010, 04:29 PM

Ok, explain to me how DEFAULT models are now ALTERNATE on character creation? This isn't even LOGICAL! You changed the name from SOGA to Alternate models a while ago, an effort to make them more accepted... but this change is completely illogical and is a bad move. So are we just going to randomly, in the middle of a development cycle (between expansions) decide that Alternate models are now default, and default models are now alternate? Am I going to have to change all of my settings, since you changed what default means? STUPID UNNECESSARY CHANGE!!!

Nevynmysti

07-30-2010, 04:29 PM

The change happened to my husband last night after he tried out a name and found out that the name wasn't available.

Neskonlith

07-30-2010, 04:30 PM

Can we have the model options available directly on the Character creation screen, rather than buried in the Options where it is a lot harder for new players to find?Give players a choice to toggle between SOGA/non-SOGA during their character build so they can easily choose which look they like the best.Forcing a default and keeping the toggle option buried seems to be not as user-friendly.

LardLord

07-30-2010, 04:31 PM

<cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>That option does not appear to be working on test. A friend who casually plays went to test to check out the animations, generally liked them, liked the UI, but he was flabbergasted by the SOGA thing...couldn't get to non-SOGA no matter what he did, and he really hates SOGA.</blockquote>Ah, the problem was that he couldn't figure out how to get to non-SOGA in the character creation, and then once your character is created in SOGA (or non-SOGA), it's stuck that way from your perspective...not sure how you even tell how you look with the alternate models, heh.

BlueEternal

07-30-2010, 04:32 PM

<cite>Lantis@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Could we get even more widely unpopular changes done unilateraly to this game? This past week has been a nightmare.</blockquote>QFE. Minus the Nagafen upgrade (Due to inc server mergers I suppose), it seems you guys have really lost touch with your playerbase. I expect some overly sensitive mod to come in and delete much of these negative posts but this is just pathetic. Keep wasting your development time on useless changes SOE! You'll need those F2P servers when you're done chasing away people from the current servers.Edit: GU57 is starting to look like that "Bug Bashing" GU where you fixed typos! Yay!

Gomora_Toad

07-30-2010, 04:36 PM

I like and use a lot of the SOGA models (and to be honest, I'd love it if everyone used certain ones so they see my characters correctly <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /> ), but I still agree that this is a silly change. The original models are generally higher quality, and it would be more consistent/less confusing to default to them for new players, since many races don't even have a SOGA model. Existing players' defaults should be whatever they've chosen in game already.

Phaso

07-30-2010, 04:36 PM

I use some/most of the SOGA models regularly as I don't like most of the original ones for my characters. While I don't agree that making the SOGA models defaults is the game-wrecking, doom 'n gloom nightmare that some are making it out to be, I do have to agree with the poster above... If these are going to be the default now, do you intend to work the bugs out of them so they look better on the whole? Many have expressed concerns with some of them in particular being out of character for the game (think Ogre), or having bizarre, overly unrealistic body shapes (many of the female models). Personally for the past two expansions the SOGA Erudite model frequently displays sans-ears, with giant holes in the sides of their heads instead. Things like that should be addressed (or in the case of the Erudites, fixed) before you make these the default for everyone... even if you do leave the original models available as an option.

Scrylla

07-30-2010, 04:44 PM

<cite>Bunji wrote:</cite><blockquote>Defaulting to SOGA during character creation was an intended change w/ GU57.</blockquote>Dislike.

Nevao

07-30-2010, 04:47 PM

My biggest problem with this is that the SOGA models are so inconsistent with the rest of the feel of the game. Yeah it's prefernce thing but the women in SOGA look like barely legal teenagers and that's the "best foot foward" you want to put?People, stop making changes just because you can. This is starting to get ridiculoulsy stupid.

kalaria

07-30-2010, 04:49 PM

GU57: How can we make our player base as angry as possible.

seamus

07-30-2010, 04:52 PM

<cite><cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just wanted to toss my vote for Original > SOGA. I hate the SOGA models. They look dour, dark, and unhappy.</blockquote>... dour, dark, unhappy children. Well the women anyway.I know its a silly thing to be upset over, its only a default. But in the context of all the other silly changes going in GU57 its yet another pin-pr*ck. I mean a UI revamp that reduces our options and flexibility but no auto-attack bar?A nerf to warriors, yes they are healing for crazy amounts in end game gear, that won't fix the problem its meant too. The crazy heal gear is still there.New spell graphics, yes more efficient, that look terrible for the classes I play.... dour, dark, unhappy children. Well the women anyway.</cite>

Seffrid

07-30-2010, 04:55 PM

<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote>EQ2x, the new UI, this...at this point I'm amused just waiting to see what's next.</blockquote>"Congratulations on defeating an anime mushroom. Please visit the Marketplace in order to claim your experience".I don't doubt that the purpose of all of these current changes plus more to come is to attract the Asian players. I understand that. What I don't understand is the bit about setting out to drive away the Western players in the process, that is the customers who have kept the game going this long and shown real loyalty to it through a lot of largely unpalatable changes.

Kenrod

07-30-2010, 04:57 PM

Seriously?Oh. Wait. I know what's happening. Looks more like WoW, right? Just like the new spell effects. And the UI. It's all part of the grand plan to make this game an EXACT WoW copy in almost every way it can be done, infuriating the paying folks that have played for years becasue WE DON'T WANT TO PLAY WoW.Every change that's coming down the pipe makes me lean more and more towards finding something else to do with my money. Been here since launch, and have a lot invested and i'd really rather not do that. But it's not about what I want. It's about what the kiddos in WoW are comfortable with, to (hopefully) make SoE some more money, since the folks that have been here playing and loving this game aren't even in the equation anymore.So fed up.

seamus

07-30-2010, 05:00 PM

<cite>Durzin@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>Seriously?Oh. Wait. I know what's happening. Looks more like WoW, right? Just like the new spell effects. And the UI. It's all part of the grand plan to make this game an EXACT WoW copy in almost every way it can be done, infuriating the paying folks that have played for years becasue WE DON'T WANT TO PLAY WoW.Every change that's coming down the pipe makes me lean more and more towards finding something else to do with my money. Been here since launch, and have a lot invested and i'd really rather not do that. But it's not about what I want. It's about what the kiddos in WoW are comfortable with, to (hopefully) make SoE some more money, since the folks that have been here playing and loving this game aren't even in the equation anymore.So fed up.</blockquote>This game looks absolutely nothing like WOW. The SOGA models look nothing like WOW. Different styles and I like EQ2 classic and I like WOW.

Kenrod

07-30-2010, 05:02 PM

To me, the SOGA models look at lot like wow. With the overstated ears on dark elves akin to night elves, everything is overstated.Might be just me, might be others. But that's what I see.The new spell effects are very wow-ish too. Cackling skulls above heads when spells are cast? wow. Two crossed swords denoting a buff is active? wow. Crazy colored bright beams for spell attacks for casters? wow.

Pink_Poodle

07-30-2010, 05:02 PM

<cite>Durzin@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>Seriously?Oh. Wait. I know what's happening. Looks more like WoW, right? Just like the new spell effects. And the UI. It's all part of the grand plan to make this game an EXACT WoW copy in almost every way it can be done, infuriating the paying folks that have played for years becasue WE DON'T WANT TO PLAY WoW.Every change that's coming down the pipe makes me lean more and more towards finding something else to do with my money. Been here since launch, and have a lot invested and i'd really rather not do that. But it's not about what I want. It's about what the kiddos in WoW are comfortable with, to (hopefully) make SoE some more money, since the folks that have been here playing and loving this game aren't even in the equation anymore.So fed up.</blockquote>I don't see how SOGA models = WoW at all.That being said, I prefer SOGA vastly over the originals but the change was pretty... out of nowhere.

Neskonlith

07-30-2010, 05:05 PM

Moving the Default choice to be part of Character creation would derail any issues with liking/disliking SOGA.Make it one more choice to make during character build and it becomes satisfying for everyone.

Barx

07-30-2010, 05:07 PM

<cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite><blockquote>Moving the Default choice to be part of Character creation would derail any issues with liking/disliking SOGA.Make it one more choice to make during character build and it becomes satisfying for everyone.</blockquote>Agreed, that'd be a fine solution. Have it so that the first time you create a character it shows you several of each race in both and then lets you pick which you want as default. That would be infinitely better than just forcing it to SOGA for everyone.

awny

07-30-2010, 05:11 PM

I don't dislike the Soga models, however, I believe they give an impression of no character customization. There really isnt much you can do to change say the female dark elf face. The sliders really dont do much. I know there is a button on the creation screen to see alternate model, however, when you make your character it sends you immediately into the game , you cannot set up your alternate model at that time. You need to actually log back out to character screen to do that. I think this is really going to be confusing for new players.just my 2 cents.

Rijacki

07-30-2010, 05:12 PM

<cite>Bunji wrote:</cite><blockquote>Defaulting to SOGA during character creation was an intended change w/ GU57.</blockquote>Are the SOGA models marked in the Options as the default for a new player?<ul><li>If not, a new player would be in for a rude "awakening" when he/she enters game and the newly created character looks -nothing- like the one he/she just created.</li><li>If so, why can't you use whatever is set in the Options for the default on character creation? it would make vets who have non-SOGA configured happy, it would make vets who have SOGA configured happy, and it would allow you to have new plyers directed to the SOGA models as a default.</li></ul>I started a new arasai and I'll confess I didn't really look too closely at the guards and other NPCs running amuck in Hate's Envy in my very brief time on Test last night 'cause the burning wall, burning elementals, and the new tutorial were distracting *chuckle*. So, I don't know if you changed my Option defaults at the same time you changed one of my key-bindings.Though, I did note that my Options preference was being used for the existing characters I had previously created on Test (a few have both original and SOGA models and they were showing up as original).I have no clue why you want to force vet players to use SOGA if it's not their preference. But I also have no idea why you want to change the key-binding for crouch and the info screen either.

LardLord

07-30-2010, 05:13 PM

<cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Agreed, that'd be a fine solution. Have it so that the first time you create a character it shows you several of each race in both and then lets you pick which you want as default. That would be infinitely better than just forcing it to SOGA for everyone.</blockquote>There's already a big button on the character creation screen that lets you switch between the two. I don't know why they felt like it was important to change the default, considering how easy it is to see both models (assuming you actually see the big button).

Yimway

07-30-2010, 05:14 PM

<cite>kalaria wrote:</cite><blockquote>GU57: How can we make our player base as angry as possible.</blockquote>GU57 is primarily about thier new players, not us dinosaurs.Given the expected penetration into asian F2P markets, defaulting to SOGA models is the best business decision.

Barx

07-30-2010, 05:16 PM

<cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Agreed, that'd be a fine solution. Have it so that the first time you create a character it shows you several of each race in both and then lets you pick which you want as default. That would be infinitely better than just forcing it to SOGA for everyone.</blockquote>There's already a big button on the character creation screen that lets you switch between the two. I don't know why they felt like it was important to change the default, considering how easy it is to see both models (assuming you actually see the big button).</blockquote>I'm aware of the button to change between the two, that's not the point. The point is that as currently configured, it has to default to something or the other, and they're changing it to default to the generally less-liked alternate models.Something that popped up on your first char creation and showed races in both models simultaneously that let you pick which to default to is a better choice than just changing everything to SOGA.

Neskonlith

07-30-2010, 05:19 PM

<cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm aware of the button to change between the two, that's not the point. The point is that as currently configured, it has to default to something or the other, and they're changing it to default to the generally less-liked alternate models.Something that popped up on your first char creation and showed races in both models simultaneously that let you pick which to default to is a better choice than just changing everything to SOGA.</blockquote>Exactly! It would make more sense to let new players choose the default styles while still in Character Build after they have a chance to compare both models side by side, rather than making them search through Options afterwards.

Neskonlith

07-30-2010, 05:39 PM

This part of Character Build would be a great spot to set up the Appearance Default:<img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/AlternateAppearancechoice.jpg" width="755" height="442" />This is where a player chooses the significant features they want displayed, and a toggle between SOGA/non-SOGA in this screen would be excellent as a player is fiddling with settings to decide on various character appearance options.

SnoesieQ

07-30-2010, 05:41 PM

<cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm aware of the button to change between the two, that's not the point. The point is that as currently configured, it has to default to something or the other, and they're changing it to default to the generally less-liked alternate models.Something that popped up on your first char creation and showed races in both models simultaneously that let you pick which to default to is a better choice than just changing everything to SOGA.</blockquote>Exactly! It would make more sense to let new players choose the default styles while still in Character Build after they have a chance to compare both models side by side, rather than making them search through Options afterwards.</blockquote>There is a big button when you pick the race to swap between the models. Both are called "Alternate Appearance" (the same button is used as a toggle)This said - NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!What possessed you to make the SOGA the default? It doesn't suit the feel of the game, they seem like aliens (some imported Klingons, no less) in Norrath. I really don't care what other people prefer and use and by all means allow creation using your own choice of model, but SOGA should not be the default.I was moderately amused by the changes in this abysmal GU up to now, but this is really too much to deal with <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Man up and explain what the reasoning is because this makes no sense at all. SmedBucks on the UI and NPC vendors at least makes financial sense. Considering EQ2 already flopped in Asia that can't be the reason. Is it WoW? Cause Soga models look like WoW to me. Except their whole game world suits *gasp* those models.Is it because they play better in gummy bear mode? Cause that would almost make sense, I guess. I noticed the Xtended alpha client defaulted to gummy bear mode.

Stormdove

07-30-2010, 05:44 PM

I can tell you right now if what I had seen on character select when I first made a character in EQ2 was the soga models I would have gone straight back to EQ and never looked back. They are that childish and immature looking to me. Seriously, that is my problem with this change. I want more people like me playing this game, not emo anime fans. Please, you took away the original start to the game, you took away the Isles, please, please, please give us this and make the original character models the default.

CoLD MeTaL

07-30-2010, 05:44 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Eeeeew</blockquote>Wow, we agree again.SOGA, really? really?

Neskonlith

07-30-2010, 05:48 PM

<cite>SnoesieQ wrote:</cite><blockquote>There is a big button when you pick the race to swap between the models. Both are called "Alternate Appearance" (the same button is used as a toggle) </blockquote>That toggle button is poorly positioned in Character build because you must start over completely in order to Toggle, so it is not possible to compare looks with feature options selected.Placing the SOGA/non-SOGA choice in the Appearance section where one would logically expect to set appearances allows a player to choose a build for a character and then immediately toggle over to compare the looks without having to reset it all.

Siniac

07-30-2010, 06:50 PM

Deleted by poster

Phaso

07-30-2010, 06:51 PM

If ease of use were a forefront objective, there wouldn't be a choice of character models at all. As it is, I'm sure it's more work for them to maintain both when I'm sure they'd much rather work with one. I would be in favor of them scrapping the original and the alternate models we have now and work toward making new ones that both respect character lore and give people the appearance and options they desire, but I'm not really sure if that's feasible at this stage for this game. If that were the route taken, I would prefer the new models become the default (and only) choice for character models, and in the process remove a level of unnecessary complexity from the game. For the record, I think it's unlikely new players will be at all concerned with changing to the original character models. It took me months when I first started the game to be made aware that there was even an option for alternate models. They will no doubt design their character to their liking with the SOGA models and be satisfied with it, much like many of you designed yours with the original model and are satisfied with those.

Amphibia

07-30-2010, 08:32 PM

<cite>Nariox@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bunji wrote:</cite><blockquote>Defaulting to SOGA during character creation was an intended change w/ GU57.</blockquote>Reason being?</blockquote>Because they generally look a lot better than the original models, would be my guess. /duck

Warpax

07-30-2010, 09:11 PM

how about improving the original models instead of pushing the SOGA models.

Oxide

07-30-2010, 09:23 PM

.

Guy De Alsace

07-30-2010, 09:23 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>kalaria wrote:</cite><blockquote>GU57: How can we make our player base as angry as possible.</blockquote>GU57 is primarily about thier new players, not us dinosaurs.Given the expected penetration into asian F2P markets, defaulting to SOGA models is the best business decision.</blockquote>Agreed it is if the SOGA models looked good even to the Asian market which they dont. Well maybe they did in 1995...Mind you at least it tells everyone more with this change than any other change in GU57. They are basically putting two fingers way the hell up to Western players.At least now we know we are second class citizens.

Oxide

07-30-2010, 09:24 PM

Look at my screenshot and tell me SOGA is better ... <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/pinballg3/EQ2_000007.jpg" />And same toon as SOGA , think we can all agree there is no " Life" in my character in SOGA option ..<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/pinballg3/EQ2_000019.jpg" />

Guy De Alsace

07-30-2010, 09:40 PM

If I smear vaseline over the screen and make you look deformed and chronically depressed you would be so SOGA <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Finora

07-30-2010, 11:04 PM

<cite>Bunji wrote:</cite><blockquote>Defaulting to SOGA during character creation was an intended change w/ GU57.</blockquote>*raises eyebrows*Then please tell me you've got someone working on the SOGA models to fix their messed up animations and bad jointing. I'd really hate for all the new people's first impression of the game to be a SOGA model looking down at something and the back of her jaw sticking out of the back of her head (happens when something gets close to females in SOGA that she looks down at). I've been bugging it since SOGA was first put on Test server years ago. I've also bugged various other animation issues with SOGA most of which have never been fixed. The only one I recall getting fixed was the really really bad SOGA female run animation.I play with SOGA periodically just to see if any changes have been made. I gave up bugging things about them about a year ago.I don't personally like how SOGA looks, but if someone else does, that's fine by me. MY problem is that someone somewhere thinks that it's a good idea to show brand new people right off the bat some of the crappiest animation jobs in the game.That's not even mentioning how much SOGA ogres look like deformed sick Klingons.

Kordran

07-30-2010, 11:18 PM

Here's another opinion that defaulting to the SOGA models is not the right thing to do. I'm fine with them being there as an option, and I would have no problem letting players choose to enable them at character creation, but to automatically have it default to those models is just a bad idea. For one, I suspect a lot of people who created their characters designed them using the (current) default models and didn't bother to do anything with the SOGA models; they just accepted whatever the default was. With new players coming in with SOGA as the default, they're going to be seeing some seriously funky looking players, and seeing them in a way that the player of that toon didn't really intend.I would agree with a previous poster that if the primary driver behind this is to encourage Asian players who (presumably) prefer that look, use geolocation on their IP and base your defaults off that, allowing anyone to switch to the alternative as desired.Edit: By the way, the reverse scenario I wrote about above is going to happen with the new players. They're going to create their new characters using the SOGA models and will likely just accept the default for the current models. The end result is that to us vets, we're going to see some mighty strange looking players out there. I guess on the other hand, we'll be able to say "Hi, let me guess.. you're new to the game, aren't you?" "Huh? How do you know I'm new?" "It's the pink bushy hair and crossed eyes that gave you away." "What? My hair isn't pink..."

Dreadpatch

07-30-2010, 11:26 PM

Dislike +1... Someone has gone mad.... I think someone in management had their daughter violated by someone who played EQ2. It's really the only thing I can think of.

Onorem

07-30-2010, 11:30 PM

Another -1 for this change.I can only imagine that this was added so that they could "back down" from at least one proposed change that was largely hated by the community on this update.

Eveningsong

07-31-2010, 01:41 AM

<cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite><blockquote>Can we have the model options available directly on the Character creation screen, rather than buried in the Options where it is a lot harder for new players to find?Give players a choice to toggle between SOGA/non-SOGA during their character build so they can easily choose which look they like the best.Forcing a default and keeping the toggle option buried seems to be not as user-friendly.</blockquote>This makes the most sense to me. I, too, hate the Soga models, but I know many people who prefer them. Let players see their options when creating their character and pick which model they want to use for a given race. While you are at it, let them know that they can set which model shows for each race -- maybe even give a dressing room type of thing to let them pick between models for each race and tell them they can change it in game later if they change their mind. Then remember those choices as the default when the player creates a new character the next time. If you are going to make changes, make them one that gives players more choices and information about the game, not ones that arbitrarily changes things that have no good reason to be changed.

metalhed

07-31-2010, 06:59 AM

I wished they would make it so if I choose Original Human Male, Everyone sees that! Not SOGA Human Male if they have alternative models checked. Take out the Check boxes period!The option should be at the character creation screen,whether you are making a new toon or doing a makeover. If someone makes a Soga Human then thats what I should see on my screen.It really bugs me to know other players see my character in a SOGA model when I don't want to be seen like that. The image you choose to represent your character should be the way everyone sees it, its part of the creative process that is being skewed.

Morghus

07-31-2010, 07:04 AM

<cite>metalhed wrote:</cite><blockquote>I wished they would make it so if I choose Original Human Male, Everyone sees that! Not SOGA Human Male if they have alternative models checked. Take out the Check boxes period!The option should be at the character creation screen,whether you are making a new toon or doing a makeover. If someone makes a Soga Human then thats what I should see on my screen.It really bugs me to know other players see my character in a SOGA model when I don't want to be seen like that. The image you choose to represent your character should be the way everyone sees it, its part of the creative process that is being skewed.</blockquote>It has been asked for in the past, but the answer then and I imagine now remains no as it would increase the amount of memory due to loading both sets of models. The memory usage of the game is rather high as-is.

Buneary

07-31-2010, 08:29 AM

---

Polywogus

07-31-2010, 08:57 AM

I could swear a year or two, or hell maybe close to three, there were posts about how SOGA was going to be phased out eventually? At the time I was all-SOGA all the time, & pretty annoyed at the decision. Now I am fine with the original model, after having switched to it, certain SOGA would be chopped off like a gangrenous foot all in one update. I will say that SOGA are certainly inferior due to lack of options, OR things that occur when options are changed. They seem more pixellized on every rig I've ever played on. Before setting them as default, I would suggest giving them a bit of an overhaul based on player feedback (those who like them). IMO, there are things on both models I wish were on the other, but regardless - SOE, the first thing one does upon entering this game is choose an avatar!! Why would you Limit options on the Creation Screen? If an RMT player comes to the game & happy to see models they like, then will it really upset them to see a button offering additional models? C'mon now. I agree with what another poster wrote earlier & apologies that I am not quoting word for word, but... 'GU57, how we can make our player base as angry as possible.'

Bosconi

07-31-2010, 11:06 AM

<cite>Bunji wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gashel@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bunji wrote:</cite><blockquote>Defaulting to SOGA during character creation was an intended change w/ GU57.</blockquote>To be clear though, we are still going to have the option to turn on the 'orignal' models though, correct?</blockquote>Correct.</blockquote>1.) Why as a developer do you seem so unwilling to express authority on the matter?2.) Consensus is obviously against this change, shouldn't you at least make it known that you'd try to leverage your position to request the powers that be to allow for a gamewide surve or poll on something like this?3.) Why allow yourself to seem so uncompromising to the values of the community?4.) What's wrong with simply making the preference for alternate SOGA models present during character creation, instead of forcing a choice aside from the norm that's existed for 5-6+ years?

Deson

07-31-2010, 11:15 AM

<cite>Bosconi wrote:</cite><blockquote>1.) Why as a developer do you seem so unwilling to express authority on the matter?2.) Consensus is obviously against this change, shouldn't you at least make it known that you'd try to leverage your position to request the powers that be to allow for a gamewide surve or poll on something like this?3.) Why allow yourself to seem so uncompromising to the values of the community?4.) What's wrong with simply making the preference for alternate SOGA models present during character creation, instead of forcing a choice aside from the norm that's existed for 5-6+ years?</blockquote>How do you think development works here? Have you been reading dev posts( most recently Rothgar)?A lot of this stuff is above their heads and their "authority"and "leverage" as developers do not exceed that given to them by a senior producer or CEO.

Bosconi

07-31-2010, 11:30 AM

<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bosconi wrote:</cite><blockquote>1.) Why as a developer do you seem so unwilling to express authority on the matter?2.) Consensus is obviously against this change, shouldn't you at least make it known that you'd try to leverage your position to request the powers that be to allow for a gamewide surve or poll on something like this?3.) Why allow yourself to seem so uncompromising to the values of the community?4.) What's wrong with simply making the preference for alternate SOGA models present during character creation, instead of forcing a choice aside from the norm that's existed for 5-6+ years?</blockquote>How do you think development works here? Have you been reading dev posts( most recently Rothgar)?A lot of this stuff is above their heads and their "authority"and "leverage" as developers do not exceed that given to them by a senior producer or CEO.</blockquote>It seems a lot of his posts have to do with making changes due to feedback.Do you have a choice quote or something?

Eveningsong

07-31-2010, 11:45 AM

SOE does have logs of everything, and it is entirely possible that more than 50% of the current EQ2 population uses SOGA over original models, hence they may feel that it is a logical change. But I think it would need to be a high percentage to make such a drastic change that affects all players, not just the ones who currently use SOGA, and they should just come out and say, "hey we looked at the numbers and it makes sense because of how many players use SOGA". Of course, they can say that anyways and we have no way to prove them wrong.

Castonu

07-31-2010, 12:18 PM

The true reason is probably because of the incoming changes to the game. This will be the character creation screen for EQ2X and for EQ2. With the changes to the UI and the default for SOGA models after all these years, it means there is going to be a substantial change to this game that we have played.

Guy De Alsace

07-31-2010, 12:38 PM

Do the members of the Japanese server forums use SOGA models? If anyone has links over there I would love to know. I know my ranger is oriental themed but I look far more oriental using the original models than with SOGA.

awny

07-31-2010, 12:43 PM

<cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite><blockquote>Do the members of the Japanese server forums use SOGA models? If anyone has links over there I would love to know. I know my ranger is oriental themed but I look far more oriental using the original models than with SOGA.</blockquote>Its not the 'oriental' look they go for, its the Anime look. i.e. Looking like preteens yet sexy =/

Vlahkmaak

07-31-2010, 02:28 PM

<cite>awnya2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite><blockquote>Do the members of the Japanese server forums use SOGA models? If anyone has links over there I would love to know. I know my ranger is oriental themed but I look far more oriental using the original models than with SOGA.</blockquote>Its not the 'oriental' look they go for, its the Anime look. i.e. Looking like preteens yet sexy =/</blockquote>Looking like sexy preteens - sounds like a pedophilles dream come true.Monday morning meeting at SOE Corporate HQ.Dev1: (Evil powdered doughnut sneer) "This months bonus commission goal is to alienate as many subscribers as possible."Dev2: (runs his hands through his greasy hair) "SOGA is not used much - lets make that defualt."Dev3: (deeply Bellows from under his darth vader/SK helm) "Lets nerf all fighter heals and make it look like its the fault of guardians - that should split the fighter ranks more." (Pounding his nerf sword hilt on the table) "Death to guardians."Dev4: (slyly) "Lets force an RMT model on the game - we'll make alot more money that way and RMT people don't really care about game mechanics anyhow. Who needs aggro if you can just buy the gear and stand around looking like a sexy preteen cartoon." A faint whisper can be heard behind Dev4 "good my apprentice, good, the accounting dept will ensure you are able to park 2 spots closer now, very, very, good my precious little pet.Dev5: (Shakes uncontrollably and breaks down in tears) "No bheastlords, please for the love of god, - I got killed by 1 in eq1 and still have nightmares - no Bheastlords, I don't care how many people want one or how much they are willing to pay for them."

Rykairn

07-31-2010, 02:47 PM

I don't like this change either.I thought it was a gliche or something when I logged into test the other day. I checked my settings under options and found that I had all SOGA models turned off. Yet, at the character creation screen, it's all SOGA. I had to push the ALTERNATE APPEARANCE button to force it. The game wouldn't accept my default settings. That just seems.. illogical.I've never liked the SOGA models and don't use them on any of my characters. As several others have posted already: a majority of the choices are vastly inferior to the default models in looks and their body frames don't work well with many of the outfits etc in game. Since it seems that a majority of players prefer the default over the SOGA; I reiterate the question "why was this change implemented??"

Wilderbeast25

07-31-2010, 04:26 PM

I don't understand this change either. Please reconsider making this the default.I never use the SOGA models and have them turned off.Thanks!

BlueEternal

07-31-2010, 05:06 PM

<cite>Vlahkmaak@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>awnya2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite><blockquote>Do the members of the Japanese server forums use SOGA models? If anyone has links over there I would love to know. I know my ranger is oriental themed but I look far more oriental using the original models than with SOGA.</blockquote>Its not the 'oriental' look they go for, its the Anime look. i.e. Looking like preteens yet sexy =/</blockquote>Looking like sexy preteens - sounds like a pedophilles dream come true.Monday morning meeting at SOE Corporate HQ.Dev1: (Evil powdered doughnut sneer) "This months bonus commission goal is to alienate as many subscribers as possible."Dev2: (runs his hands through his greasy hair) "SOGA is not used much - lets make that defualt."Dev3: (deeply Bellows from under his darth vader/SK helm) "Lets nerf all fighter heals and make it look like its the fault of guardians - that should split the fighter ranks more." (Pounding his nerf sword hilt on the table) "Death to guardians."Dev4: (slyly) "Lets force an RMT model on the game - we'll make alot more money that way and RMT people don't really care about game mechanics anyhow. Who needs aggro if you can just buy the gear and stand around looking like a sexy preteen cartoon." A faint whisper can be heard behind Dev4 "good my apprentice, good, the accounting dept will ensure you are able to park 2 spots closer now, very, very, good my precious little pet.Dev5: (Shakes uncontrollably and breaks down in tears) "No bheastlords, please for the love of god, - I got killed by 1 in eq1 and still have nightmares - no Bheastlords, I don't care how many people want one or how much they are willing to pay for them."</blockquote>Lol brilliant

Piltow

07-31-2010, 05:50 PM

My take on this.It has been a couple of years since SOE finally broke Vanguard. And a couple of years before that when they broke SWG. Its just EQ2s turn. I HOPE NOT BUT....

Taldier

07-31-2010, 05:54 PM

Exelance

07-31-2010, 06:46 PM

..... and here i was just starting to get back into the game. at the rate things are going i dont even know if my second account will reach 90 before i leave in disgust again like i did in TSO. I know that nothing we say in these posts will make a lick of difrence. When has it ever, when SOE ever credited the comunity by doing somthing we have suggested. In the infanite wisdom that none of us simple figures on there accountants spreadsheets may have, SOE has desided that we now need to be shown the uglyness that is SOGA and all new players shall be bathed in that which only a minority of players perfers.It may be an attempt to make the game LOOK like they reworked the models (Who knows how many ppl didint even know the sogas even excisted.) or maybe they are walking the line to see what we do. My major problem with the sogas is that. there is hardly any ability to make a unique look to them. a bit of hight here. a slight change in the shape of the face there. but not as wide a variants as the original models. and to those who make a character the first time, may not be so pleased with it.-1 from me.

Klive

07-31-2010, 06:56 PM

I use all SOGA. I try to make my original models look as close as I can to my SOGA. I'm not preteen or asian. Just my personal preference. They should let folks have the freedom to choose which look they prefer. I think the hair do's on regular models look way wacky. Again, my personal preference.

Guy De Alsace

07-31-2010, 07:09 PM

If I had any kids that looked like the SOGA models I'd get them to the doctor ASAP.Doc : Curvature of the spine, facial paralysis, malnutrition, chronic plastic skin condition, manic depression...I'm afraid its bad...

Nevynmysti

07-31-2010, 11:24 PM

<cite>Bunji wrote:</cite><blockquote>Defaulting to SOGA during character creation was an intended change w/ GU57.</blockquote>Bad bad bad bad bad CHoice.... I never use them and don't intend to. With all these changes to the basics of my game... it may be time to shop for a new one.

Looker1010

08-01-2010, 12:46 AM

What happened to localization? Make SOGA the default for Asian servers and leave the US servers alone. This is an extremely unpopular decision SOE. Perhaps it's time to rethink. Don't dismiss us "old-timers" in your rush to RMT.

Araxes

08-01-2010, 09:57 AM

I started playing this game because I did like the character models, and mroe importantly, the creation process. The standard models are MUCH more cusomizable and detailed.Please do not retain SOGA as the new standard. It's truly awful.Also it is silly to me to manage the look of my character AFTER I've chosen their class -- as the armor they have on covers up a good portion of things like Woads, tattoos, fur patterns, scale patterns ... I am aware that wearing armor in the game also does this, obviously - but it's a matter of principle that I want to see what my appearance is without anything on BEFORE it gets covered up.

Deson

08-01-2010, 11:36 AM

<cite>Bosconi wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bosconi wrote:</cite><blockquote>1.) Why as a developer do you seem so unwilling to express authority on the matter?2.) Consensus is obviously against this change, shouldn't you at least make it known that you'd try to leverage your position to request the powers that be to allow for a gamewide surve or poll on something like this?3.) Why allow yourself to seem so uncompromising to the values of the community?4.) What's wrong with simply making the preference for alternate SOGA models present during character creation, instead of forcing a choice aside from the norm that's existed for 5-6+ years?</blockquote>How do you think development works here? Have you been reading dev posts( most recently Rothgar)?A lot of this stuff is above their heads and their "authority"and "leverage" as developers do not exceed that given to them by a senior producer or CEO.</blockquote>It seems a lot of his posts have to do with making changes due to feedback.Do you have a choice quote or something?</blockquote>Recently Rothgar making abundantly clear what he has no choice in and implying how his priorities are set. Also, former dev posts explaining in good detail what decision making for EQ2(SOE) is like.

Guy De Alsace

08-01-2010, 07:04 PM

If this was open to discussion I think the red name would have opened it for discussion. Instead we got a flat "intended" then a goodnight vienna.Its a strange world we live in where low quality sells better than high but there it is I guess.

KniteShayd

08-02-2010, 08:49 AM

I think if this was intention, it should only be subject to the EQ2X server.I was very annoyed, while making toons on Test, that I HAD to keep choosing alt model everytime I switched a race or gender during creation.Please make model toggling a one time thing when creating a new toon. It's like walking and having to re-tie your shoe every time you take a step.

Deson

08-02-2010, 09:18 AM

<cite>Gerak@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>My take on this.It has been a couple of years since SOE finally broke Vanguard. And a couple of years before that when they broke SWG. Its just EQ2s turn. I HOPE NOT BUT....</blockquote>VG was broken long before SOE touched it. Replace it with Planetside or even EQ.

BabyAngel

08-02-2010, 09:24 AM

As posted in my other thread, and now it looks like its intended, this makes me feel sick,<img src="http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/5541/wrongwrongwrongwrong.jpg" width="1218" height="703" />I find this VERY degrading, its disgusting. It makes me cringe, and it makes me not want to create a character. No, not because its different, but because her back is going to break, creating characters is probably the most important player decision we make. If it be an Alternate character or a main one.If this is being pushed out for live as the default, your going to have more than just angry players on your hands.

Bilil

08-02-2010, 09:27 AM

The SOGA models are hideous, oh god I hope it doesn't get live.

SnoesieQ

08-02-2010, 09:46 AM

Why can't I change between SOGA and Original while in the game?I made a dark elf on Test, and can only change Dark Elf Female on Character Select by remaking her Alternate Appearance, but the option to swap between DE/F Soga and original is greyed out in the UI while in the game.I can swap all the other models while in game. Just not my own race/gender.I /bugged it because... surely they are not disallowing us to swap model on our own race while allowing it for all the other ones? If this is an intended change, it's even more peculiar.Edit to add: One of the things that has me worried with this is that on Test you can change your appearance for free at any time, while on Live it requires you to visit a barber. (They have changed the UI and you can now change your appearance while in game with the makeover token from the barber, while on test you can still do it without a token at Char Select) Just wondering if it's intended that changing your alternate model will take you to change your alternate appearance repeatedly - it used to be you could set it once.It's backwards to have to go to char select to change your model, but it's even worse if when on Live, you will have to visit a barber first.

CoLD MeTaL

08-02-2010, 11:20 AM

Thanks for the reminder that there are SOGA models.Now please give me a way to check one time to never see them again.$OE has forgotten what heroic fantasy is about. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Yimway

08-02-2010, 11:28 AM

Options > Display > Alternate ModelsYou can permanently disable SOGA models.I have to admit, it bothers me on the models, to the point when I see someone post a screenshot of my character in a soga model I wish I had someway of directing how my character is modeled to other players.

Harlequin

08-02-2010, 12:56 PM

Yimway

08-02-2010, 01:19 PM

<cite>HarlequinJD wrote:</cite><blockquote>That being said, to me, the face is most important part of the character creation, and I like *some* of the SOGA faces better than the classic (humans for example, are one). I also seem to get slightly better performance with them on. But, they really need to tweak them a bit -- the back breaking busty look has to go (unless it is made customizable), and the color choices for hair make no sense when you are fiddling with them. More customizability in general would be better. </blockquote>When you consider the SOGA models were designed for an asian region deployment, its not hard to understand the design choices they made. In that marketplace there isn't much understanding of barbarians, halflings, etc. So alternate designs felt to be more palatable were introduced for them.The fact that they performed slightly better on less powerful machines made them desired by the US playerbase.I agree with others, the SOGA models do no match the lore and design of the rest of the game, and should only be defaulted in installs targeted for an asian market.

NrthnStar5

08-02-2010, 01:35 PM

I am so shocked at how upset people are by this. I really am. It seems quite petty honestly. No options are being taken away here, so why so up in arms?Personally, I HATE the original models. I have used 100% Soga models since they began. The original models look hideous in my opinion. But even if I preferred the original models, this isn't a big deal. We still have the option of both. It would be interesting if they put out a poll to see what are more popular. Then it may justify this change... or not lol

CoLD MeTaL

08-02-2010, 02:34 PM

KerowynnKaotic

08-02-2010, 02:49 PM

+1 to the disliking of the change of the 'defualt' graphics.Give a button to change to Soga, if that's your preference, instead of the button to change from Soga to the REAL 'Defualt' ie, the Original and real Graphics, you know the ones that are on most Game Literature. A few examples can be found <a href="http://everquest2.com/gameinfo/races" target="_blank">here</a> & <a href="http://everquest2.com/_views/media/screenshots.vm?title=all&page=1" target="_blank">here</a> & <a href="http://everquest2.com/media/movies/play/006" target="_blank">here. </a>Though, if you look at the movie closely, you'll see a few hairstyles that never made it into game but the majority did.But back to my mini-rant, I think they should put the 'Switch Graphics' type button choice right on the little close up window for each stage of the character creation. That way people can click it back and forth to see what the change they made looks like in either option, then the person can really have an informed decision on their character creation choices. And, can choose to 'Set' that grahic type of their choosing as their Defualt after finalizing their character choices. That would make a heck of lot more sense than this current out of the blue switch.I don't mind SOGA being in the world. It doesn't really affect how I see the world as long as I have the option to view it the way I want to. But, what I would prefer is that SOE get off their [censored] and finally do something productive with the Character models and try fixing the bugs as well as bringing in some tweaks to both Character sets. Neither one really are 'perfect'. No matter how much you might like which ever set .. there are still issues of where SOE could have done something better to make it look more natural/cooler/apply your own adjective. *sigh*

BabyAngel

08-02-2010, 04:42 PM

Lantis

08-02-2010, 05:27 PM

Here's a compromise: have the game default to SOGA based on your locale. Asian players would get SOGA, western markets would get Original models.

Rick777

08-02-2010, 06:17 PM

It really should be the player toggles what THEY want others to see, this would really be nice for personal preference. If I want to run around as a SOGA model, then everyone should see me that way, and vice versa.

Malacha

08-02-2010, 09:50 PM

<cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite><blockquote>It really should be the player toggles what THEY want others to see, this would really be nice for personal preference. If I want to run around as a SOGA model, then everyone should see me that way, and vice versa.</blockquote>I know they've said this wont happen, but I would love to know that everyone sees my halfling the same way I do. I detest SOGA halflings... yeah they're really cute and all, but they're not HALFLINGS... they're little kids.

Rijacki

08-03-2010, 12:41 AM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Options > Display > Alternate ModelsYou can permanently disable SOGA models.I have to admit, it bothers me on the models, to the point when I see someone post a screenshot of my character in a soga model I wish I had someway of directing how my character is modeled to other players.</blockquote><ol><li>Go to Test with those settings in your options. "Permanently" disable SOGA.</li><li>THEN create a new character on Test.</li><li>Each time you click any race or switch the gender you will see it is SOGA.</li><li>Click on the Alternate button, it's big and friendly over on the right.</li><li>Ahh.. non-SOGA.</li><li>Click on another race or change the gender. </li><li>SOGA!</li><li>Click back to the race on which you clicked the Alternate button, it was original after you had clicked the button, you think it should be now?</li><li>SOGA!</li><li>Leave it on SOGA to create that character (remember your setting started out with all SOGA disabled).</li><li>Look at your options now. </li><li>That race+gender is checked as Alternate and cannot be changed. That race+gender cannot be unchecked.</li></ol>I didn't go as far as trying to find a barber or going back to character select to see if I could set the standard model, but...SOGA is the -default- for character creation on Test, now. Yes, you can switch to original, but you have to switch each time you look at another race/gender. If you click on any race or gender, whether you've clicked the alternate button or not, you will see SOGA every time until you give up.You hadn't been on Test to make a new character. If you had, you would know how false the "You can permanently disable SOGA models" statement is.The RIGHT way to do it would have been to honor the choices of the vet player and had their Options choices be the default for -their- character select. For new players, their options could be set to all SOGA enabled as the default (changable in the character select/create).

Kamimura

08-03-2010, 01:50 AM

What? Why in the world would you make the original models the alternate models? If you're really going to do this for new characters, you need to fix all the bugs with those models. If you want to show your best to new players, this really is not the way to do it. Even if you do go ahead with this for new characters, I have my soga models off. I should NOT be seeing them at character selection. Existing players' choices should be honored there. There's no reason to force soga onto people who have already chosen not to use it!Absolutely absurd change.

Kain-UK

08-03-2010, 09:28 AM

Adding this into the mix... the subtitle that someone suggested for Gu57 seems appropriate.As such, it shall now be reffered to as "Fluff and Fail".Hey Bunji, let me clue you in on a few things and then see if you actually bother to respond. People like choice. This change is taking away some of our ability to choose things in-game. SOGA or Non-SOGA should depend on what WE have selected in our options screen, just like character creation is right now. If you want to turn on SOGA as a default for NEW players, then fine... I'm sure there are people here who can understand that. But for the love of christ, let our options decide what we are going to see.And if you're going to put a huge, big button to let us swap between the model sets, at least put it in at the point where we customize how our characters look! It would be nice to set the original and alternate apperances for characters during creation, rather than having to set one, turn off (or on) the models you're using, visit the barber and then set it from character select again!

Geothe

08-03-2010, 09:45 AM

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>Go to Test with those settings in your options. "Permanently" disable SOGA.<ol><li>THEN create a new character on Test.</li><li>Each time you click any race or switch the gender you will see it is SOGA.</li><li>Click on the Alternate button, it's big and friendly over on the right.</li><li>Ahh.. non-SOGA.</li><li>Click on another race or change the gender. </li><li>SOGA!</li><li>Click back to the race on which you clicked the Alternate button, it was original after you had clicked the button, you think it should be now?</li><li>SOGA!</li><li>Leave it on SOGA to create that character (remember your setting started out with all SOGA disabled).</li><li>Look at your options now. </li><li>That race+gender is checked as Alternate and cannot be changed. That race+gender cannot be unchecked.</li></ol>I didn't go as far as trying to find a barber or going back to character select to see if I could set the standard model, but...SOGA is the -default- for character creation on Test, now. Yes, you can switch to original, but you have to switch each time you look at another race/gender. If you click on any race or gender, whether you've clicked the alternate button or not, you will see SOGA every time until you give up.You hadn't been on Test to make a new character. If you had, you would know how false the "You can permanently disable SOGA models" statement is.The RIGHT way to do it would have been to honor the choices of the vet player and had their Options choices be the default for -their- character select. For new players, their options could be set to all SOGA enabled as the default (changable in the character select/create).</blockquote>This.Seriously, revert this moronic change.

Jaremai

08-03-2010, 10:38 AM

I personally like most of the SOGA models.. but if I have them disabled in my "Options" then they should not be appearing in any way, shape, or form.If this goes live there needs to be a second "Options" panel called "Mandatories". =p

Whilhelmina

08-03-2010, 12:24 PM

I think this is a bad idea. This game was designed as a normal "European/American" graphical model, and is realistic. SOGA is not on par with the rest of the game as it was created. I know I can't stand SOGA on any race and I don't like some races like fae/arasai because they are soga-like so I'm hardly objective... But I think the game was not designed for a market playing in SOGA. Giving the choice to play in SOGA, even advertising for it on a tutorial bubble for newbies would be good, but defaulting to SOGA is a bad move.<cite>Xill wrote:</cite><blockquote>Default SOGA models...Wow... blantently giving the finger to the western audience at this point.... Thanks guys, at least I know where I stand.</blockquote>/agree

CoLD MeTaL

08-03-2010, 12:47 PM

Trying to minimize the damage of Final Fantasy 14 (or whatever number is ocming out)?

Gilli

08-04-2010, 04:02 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have to admit, it bothers me on the models, to the point when I see someone post a screenshot of my character in a soga model I wish I had someway of directing how my character is modeled to other players.</blockquote>Didn't this already happen with Shader 3.0? Most of my toons look horrible in 3.0, especially when you consider how many colors and outfit appearances are borked. My carefully crafted fae in pale grey gear with opalescent grey wings now looks like he's been dipped in powdered graphite. He's dark and mismatched.I'm already afraid half of the people seeing him think he's a shadow.

Knappy

08-05-2010, 11:10 AM

Whether you like SOGA models or hate them they are more appealing.To a new sub entering the game for the first time which would be more appealing? The ancient, models that look like theresult of countless generations of inbreeding over the course of Norraths history or the newer cleaner models? Let's behonest the original models are more of a curiousity than viable choice. Something you switch to when you want toremember how bad it could really get in terms of character design.

Jaale

08-05-2010, 11:53 AM

<cite>Aesome@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Whether you like SOGA models or hate them they are more appealing.To a new sub entering the game for the first time which would be more appealing? The ancient, models that look like theresult of countless generations of inbreeding over the course of Norraths history or the newer cleaner models? Let's behonest the original models are more of a curiousity than viable choice. Something you switch to when you want toremember how bad it could really get in terms of character design.</blockquote>I'd disagree with you Aesome, I don't find them more appealing and neather do the majority of the posters here I personally find the non soga to have more character do be more definable rather than the cookie cutter of the SOGA.It's obvious that you are pro SOGA and thats fine however I think calling the older models as inbred might be a little on the harsh side, it's odd because they have been working on the older models to clean them up a little and make the human females esph look better.Personally I think that design wise the non SOGA is superior and the SOGA are bland cookie cutters without the depth of the originals.

CoLD MeTaL

08-05-2010, 12:10 PM

Bremer

08-05-2010, 03:00 PM

There is now a giant button at the character creation screen when you choose your race, where you can switch to alternative models (aka the normal ones) and directly compare them. So everyone can take whatever they think looks best (in most cases the Soga models). Noone loses any options and taking the Soga models as default option is comprehensible, because they look better (in my opinion, if you don't agree you don't have to chose it).

Kamimura

08-05-2010, 03:32 PM

<cite>CoLD MeTaL wrote:</cite><blockquote>IMO SOGA look good to Anime fans and the Asian culture, where classic models look good to people who are fans of classic heroic fantasy.</blockquote>Interestingly, most of the anime fans I know really aren't into the SOGA models. The few people I know who use SOGA are all middle-aged casual players, who for whatever reason like the alt models better. It would be interesting to see the statstics on original VS SOGA and see if they held up to this change...

Kamimura

08-05-2010, 03:34 PM

<cite>Bremer wrote:</cite><blockquote>(in my opinion, if you don't agree you don't have to chose it).</blockquote>I didn't choose it. SOGA is all off in my otpions. Yet, as an existing player who has already set her options, they're still coming up as default in character creation. This should not be happening, the choice I've already made should be respected.

Knappy

08-05-2010, 03:51 PM

I should clarify. I'm not an anime fan, and while the comparison seems to be popular I see no resemblance between animeand SOGA models. They're simply cleaner, and have a more complete feel....The origianl models (inbred and all =P) lack thatfeel, they look as though they were rushed and added in without the necessary finishing touches. I write this with noattempt at humor but the original human models look as though they've suffered a stroke, halfling/dwarf models lookdisproportionate and 'lumpy' essentially the only races that look even remotely acceptable are the 'monster' races.It is a matter of choice, however having SOGA as the default model does make sense they do appear to be a polishedproduct where the original models...Not so polished, essentially it's a case of putting your best foot forward.

Xiotia

08-05-2010, 04:02 PM

I started playing with the soga models, but soon realized that the creation options are limited. They all look the same to me. I definitely prefer the default. I fix my appearance in both, however, so that even the players that use soga see what I want them to see.

awny

08-05-2010, 04:22 PM

<cite>Aesome@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I should clarify. I'm not an anime fan, and while the comparison seems to be popular I see no resemblance between animeand SOGA models. They're simply cleaner, and have a more complete feel....The origianl models (inbred and all =P) lack thatfeel, they look as though they were rushed and added in without the necessary finishing touches. I write this with noattempt at humor but the original human models look as though they've suffered a stroke, halfling/dwarf models lookdisproportionate and 'lumpy' essentially the only races that look even remotely acceptable are the 'monster' races.It is a matter of choice, however having SOGA as the default model does make sense they do appear to be a polishedproduct where the original models...Not so polished, essentially it's a case of putting your best foot forward.</blockquote>I have to agree with some of the 'original models' looking a little sad. However, shouldnt SOE be trying to put their products best foot forward and 'fix' the originals instead of the SOGA which is not with them anymore and does not provide any upgrading?

CorpseGoddess

08-05-2010, 04:35 PM

I am a HUGE anime fan and have been for nearly 40 years. The SOGA models in NO WAY resemble the usual anime visual tropes. Trust me, they are nothing alike.I also draw and illustrate, mostly fantasy, and personally I think the SOGA models look like sub-par animation tech college knockoffs. They're immature and poorly rendered, horribly designed and not attractive at all.And yes, next I'll tell you what I *really* think of them.The thought of these being the first models that somebody sees coming in fresh is appalling to me. If the SOGA models had been the default when I started playing, there's a very good chance I would have stopped playing, that very same day.

Sydares

08-05-2010, 05:37 PM

The original models look like melted playdough.Obviously, when it comes to the aesthetics of something like this, opinions are going to drastically vary - my guess would be that the reason they're displayed as a default is that (despite the loud forum whining), they have statistically found that SOGA is more widely adopted than non-SOGA despite not being the game's default. Therefore, to appeal to the largest amount of people that they can, it's now the default.

KerowynnKaotic

08-05-2010, 06:47 PM

I love how neither camp (pro / con soga) can be really partial. *eats more cheese nips while reading the thread*Both camps have to get their little digs in for the other to try and prove that their option is the best.It's like listening to children in a fight of 'whose mommy/daddy is the bestest' and 'which one wears combat boots'.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" />It's no wonder SOE doesn't take us seriously very often.

StaticLex

08-05-2010, 09:01 PM

Hey nice change soe! I always wanted to play a down syndrome emo looking toon. Keep up the good work!

Diern

08-05-2010, 09:04 PM

Ahh, switch back the default to original models please. Most of the soga ones are actually worse than the original models and definitely have much less customization.

kelvmor

08-06-2010, 01:23 AM

I want to know why, specifically, without any bull, why this change was made.And, as just about -everyone- in this thread has said, DO NOT LET THIS CHANGE GO LIVE.

Bregdania

08-06-2010, 02:12 AM

First off I'm not on test so what I'm about to say is probably off the mark.I created all my alts from the original model and liked the way they looked. In my naiveté I thought what I saw, was what anyone meeting my alt. also saw. Wrong!! I was horrified when in game I swapped to the alternate model of SOGA. (Guildie commented on how bad I looked) It was hideous.I immediately logged out and set the appearance of the SOGA version of my alt as well to something that at least wasn't hideous - certainly not what I liked, but acceptable. I then returned to game in the original model.Now I see myself how I want and those who choose SOGA see me their way. I imagine that is what will continue to happen now except that we have to take the step of choosing the alternate model for creation when we create an alt if we want the classic look.Why, oh why can't we just create our model in either classic or SOGA and have our creation be seen by everyone. Finally, I do dislike the SOGA model purely for the rather nasty sexist over tones of childish creations pretending to be adults. I know this is a role pay game but I don't want to appear as some sort of child molester!!

Gargamel

08-06-2010, 02:24 AM

This change doesn't bother me even 1/100 of the other Fee to Play BS crap, but if its a default I can change I don't care that much.Though if I were an eq2 artists I'd be [Removed for Content].. the SOGA models were added by the Nerriak bunch which was a 3rd party korean outsource sony hired to do Mara and then liked the work and had them to Nerriak for them.I think the instructions were to play WoW and 'make it look more like that'So pretty much an afterthought, following a single one, of the now defunct 'adventure packs', is now the main display character models.

Guy De Alsace

08-06-2010, 02:44 AM

<cite>Gargamel wrote:</cite><blockquote>This change doesn't bother me even 1/100 of the other Fee to Play BS crap, but if its a default I can change I don't care that much.Though if I were an eq2 artists I'd be [Removed for Content].. the SOGA models were added by the Nerriak bunch which was a 3rd party korean outsource sony hired to do Mara and then liked the work and had them to Nerriak for them.I think the instructions were to play WoW and 'make it look more like that'So pretty much an afterthought, following a single one, of the now defunct 'adventure packs', is now the main display character models.</blockquote>SOGA was around before Mara. They were asked to do Mara as well afaik. If I were Imago I would also be [Removed for Content] after all his work on SM3 they default to models that are of a detail level well below what SM3 can do.This change makes the game look stupid instead of sub worthy. With SM3 and full detail on the game looks really detailed and interesting - then you get unfinished cartoon characters as toons? Makes zero sense.

Wurm

08-06-2010, 03:23 AM

I just wish they would support the soga models.For my DE female:I like the hair.I like the face.I dislike the body because of the following reasons:Arms and legs too skinny, shoulders too scrawny (Looks ok with MOST plate armor but forget the formal robes).Back bent to the point of breaking (so I use a cloak).I switch back and forth between classic and soga (and have both set how I like) depending on my mood. But if they would address my issues with Soga, I'd use it all the time.But regardless, soga should not be default.

Finora

08-06-2010, 03:50 AM

I too would love to hear from someone who actually knows why they are making SOGA default.I know some people love them, I know some people hate them. As I posted before I also know they are still buggy. Buggier than the originals by far since most of the armor was designed around the original models. ( I acknowledge I see bugs occassionally with armor & original models, usually kerrans oddly but when I play with SOGAs I see them all over.)Since character creation is being changed, it would be nice if the devs did what several people have suggested and place the toggle more prominently. A great big button in the top or bottom center maybe. Make it obvious to people they have choices of model styles.It would be nice to keep it on screen throughout character creation as well, so people can toggle back and forth between the two. I know that would make me much happier during character creation. I like to try to get both looks as close as I can. I'm sure lots of other people do as well.

Knappy

08-06-2010, 09:19 AM

<cite>Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>I love how neither camp (pro / con soga) can be really partial. *eats more cheese nips while reading the thread*Both camps have to get their little digs in for the other to try and prove that their option is the best.It's like listening to children in a fight of 'whose mommy/daddy is the bestest' and 'which one wears combat boots'.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" />It's no wonder SOE doesn't take us seriously very often.</blockquote>Clearly were not debating this because mine are the best!Geeze I thought we were all clear on at least that point.

Styrkarr

08-06-2010, 11:12 AM

Most of the original models look absolutely horrible. Don't get me wrong, I definitely understand the style and design they were goin' for, but in the end most of them just look kinda bad. In my mind, it just didn't work. Sorry. That being said, I find that alot of them have enough style to them, that I do in fact use them. Hair in particular is a frickin' nightmare for pretty much every race. Holee underwear is it bad. The eyes for most races also suck badly (too close together and slightly cross-eyed on Humans for example).I use the SOGA models for all the Elvish races. I find the SOGA models just seem to lend themselves more to what I perceive as an "Elvish look".I use the original models for all the rest of the races. Bad as most of them are, the original models give them character (I guess) and when balanced against the SOGA elves, it really feels like a rich diversity of racial appearances.Using the SOGA models as the default for new accounts is the smart play.

Anastasie

08-06-2010, 11:44 AM

If they want anime looking models then they need to seriously revamp soga, because they look like crap and always have. Soga models are so limited in their customization as well that is very frustrating to try and make them look even halfway decent. The original models (especially for females) just look so much better and you can customize them to a far greater degree.

Tyrlien

08-06-2010, 08:55 PM

"intended change" ... just something more I have to change BACK. Keep making these "intended changes" and pretty soon we will all be playing clone characters like every other mmorpg out there. I know we can switch to the "alternate" ones, but SOGA is and should remain the alternate.I get that change is necessary in any online game, but changing things that make EQ2 unique is a bad move.

Crombie

08-06-2010, 10:41 PM

Woo hoo! We get to have all the new players think halflings are actually just asian children! joy! ... /sigh

Helanor

08-07-2010, 11:27 AM

Sighs, I really really really loathe the soga models so much.

Thunndar316

08-07-2010, 04:23 PM

People still use the old models? Those things are hideous!

kelvmor

08-07-2010, 05:59 PM

<cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote>People still use the old models? Those things are hideous!</blockquote>No, they aren't. Most of the SOGA models are poorly-designed, poorly-animated lumps of lifeless, anorexic wax. The only exception are the dark elf/wood elf males. Even then, though, the wood elf males still look lifeless.The original models actually look like they have character. And the females aren't unrealisticly thin with broken backs.

Tyrlien

08-07-2010, 08:59 PM

Eggxactly. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> The old models actually have life... the soga models are lumps of clay.

Novusod

08-07-2010, 11:55 PM

<cite>kelvmor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I want to know why, specifically, without any bull, why this change was made.And, as just about -everyone- in this thread has said, DO NOT LET THIS CHANGE GO LIVE.</blockquote>The no bull reason is the SOGAs run better on low end PCs because they have fewer polygons everything else is subjective.

Wurm

08-08-2010, 05:19 AM

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>kelvmor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I want to know why, specifically, without any bull, why this change was made.And, as just about -everyone- in this thread has said, DO NOT LET THIS CHANGE GO LIVE.</blockquote>The no bull reason is the SOGAs run better on low end PCs because they have fewer polygons everything else is subjective.</blockquote>And that they haven't figured out how to make a 6 year old game run well on current hardware is kinda sad isn't it.

Solarax

08-09-2010, 11:47 AM

<cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>If it's really the asian market they're going after with that, then do what other MMOs do: Use the incoming IP of the user to determine whether original models (non-asia) or SOGA models (asia) are shown. Making it show the SOGA models (which in my experience people like significantly less on average) to everyone just to target that market is insane.</blockquote>i Second this. I hate the soga models and wish i could remove them from the game.In fact if the game started out with soga durring beta i never would have started playing it .

Ashmen_Skimmerhorn

08-09-2010, 11:53 AM

<cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote>People still use the old models? Those things are hideous!</blockquote>+1,000,000Old models are hideous. At launch the entire game was awesome except I always hated the character models and as soon as the SOGO models were introduced I turned them all on and never switched back.

Ahlana

08-09-2010, 12:57 PM

I guess really the only thing I care about is, this doesn't change our current settings right?I mean if I have some on and some not.. I will not be defaulted to one of the other when I goto make my character on an exsiting account correct?IE: I have Sogas off on my account.. GU57 is not going to turn them on for me correct? And thus if I go to make a new character it will default to my pre-selected options right?If this is the case.. then i see absolutely no problem with the change.. if this is inncorrect.. then something is wrong

SnoesieQ

08-09-2010, 01:38 PM

<cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite><blockquote>I guess really the only thing I care about is, this doesn't change our current settings right?I mean if I have some on and some not.. I will not be defaulted to one of the other when I goto make my character on an exsiting account correct?IE: I have Sogas off on my account.. GU57 is not going to turn them on for me correct? And thus if I go to make a new character it will default to my pre-selected options right?If this is the case.. then i see absolutely no problem with the change.. if this is inncorrect.. then something is wrong</blockquote>Currently on Test:Old character will keep their current set model, and will be able to swap between alternate models while in the game.New character will default to SOGA, and can only change the model while on character select. Swapping models while in the game (alt+O) is disable for that race/gender that specific character is. All the other models can be changed while in the game.So yes, your settings in the game will be overwritten when making a new character and you will see a SOGA by default. (which you can change while making the character - I would rather not see them at all though)

Ahlana

08-09-2010, 01:43 PM

<cite>SnoesieQ wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>-snip-</cite>So yes, your settings in the game will be overwritten when making a new character and you will see a SOGA by default. (which you can change while making the character - I would rather not see them at all though) </blockquote>Well that makes no sense. I already picked my option, it should not change <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Malacha

08-12-2010, 06:17 AM

Can we please get some answers on this? Are we really going to be forced into SOGA (the ALTERNATE models) as the new default? Why make a model, which you can't support and the original creators no longer support, as your default model? Why is the ALTERNATE now the DEFAULT? Why was this change made? And why does it ignore our in-game settings, then LOCK that setting in-game, making people unable to change on the fly?

Sordes

08-12-2010, 07:45 AM

I purposely made a new character today, wanted to see the character creation and experience the new UI from a new players perspective. I have to say I do not like this either, the only SOGA models that don't look half bad in my opinion (and are maybe a slight improvement) would be the human models. All the rest look really bad if you ask me.I don't remember who said it, but whoever said it's because they run better on low end machines hit the nail on the head. EQ2X is essentially the same game so they want people to get those models and not have performance issues is my assumption. I don't really like how it is being done though, it just feels like they are being forced on me which I don't like.

Fas

08-15-2010, 01:10 PM

Hey, at least they didn't default characters to the obnoxious "cutemode"...But seriously... in the upcoming EQ2 New Game Experience, SOE has drawn a line in the sand, and the established player base has a bunch of hard decisions to make.

Xalmat

08-15-2010, 01:22 PM

<cite>Sordes wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't remember who said it, but whoever said it's because they run better on low end machines hit the nail on the head.</blockquote>The SOGA models and the original models have the same polygon count, and I assume the same texture sizes. So it makes no difference from a performance point of view which models you use.

Solarax

08-15-2010, 07:06 PM

if it aint broke dont fix it plain and simple.most people dont want the soga models

Winter

08-15-2010, 09:03 PM

I... I'm sorry, I must admit. I like the original models better. ^_^; Granted, more hair and textures would be nice but... yeah, SOGA not so much. ^_^ They're cute but very much not made with the American audience first in mind.

LadyMist

08-16-2010, 01:16 PM

I can't believe you people are complaining that the Default is changing to soga. How many clicks does it take to change it to default. I guess people will complain about anything.I would like to say Great job to the team for giving us players a variety to choose from. I myself and many I know were happy when soga was introduced.

Xill

08-16-2010, 01:25 PM

<cite>Sweetsage@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I can't believe you people are complaining that the Default is changing to soga. How many clicks does it take to change it to default. I guess people will complain about anything.I would like to say Great job to the team for giving us players a variety to choose from. I myself and many I know were happy when soga was introduced.</blockquote>Thats great that you like them, and most of us are happy that they give variety.We are upset that they are wasting time making changes like this when NOBODY was asking for them to change it. And they look bad... they really do. They do not fit the game art style and most armour models are not made for the change in ratio. So the armour looks stretched and does not fit appropraitely in alot of places.

Lhunara

08-16-2010, 01:31 PM

<cite>Sweetsage@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I can't believe you people are complaining that the Default is changing to soga. How many clicks does it take to change it to default. I guess people will complain about anything.I would like to say Great job to the team for giving us players a variety to choose from. I myself and many I know were happy when soga was introduced.</blockquote>I think the point is people don't like that the game is being changed into something different around them. No need to get all sycophantic about it.

Barx

08-16-2010, 01:36 PM

<cite>Sweetsage@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I can't believe you people are complaining that the Default is changing to soga. How many clicks does it take to change it to default. I guess people will complain about anything.I would like to say Great job to the team for giving us players a variety to choose from. I myself and many I know were happy when soga was introduced.</blockquote>From what I've heard from test, an infinite number of clicks to stay in default when creating a character. What was being reported was that any time you changed race, etc. it would go back to SOGA instead of default.SOGA was introduced many years ago, the choice has been there since then. Forcing it to go to SOGA by default and not even letting a user set it to the normal models a single time and have it work is unacceptable.

Hathahrk

08-16-2010, 06:45 PM

Why can't we have a real answer from a dev or responsable ?just tell us your logic for this change ?the original are a lot better; more detailled , more realistic, it was one of the thing that make me want to try EQ2 , there already to much game with "asian" skin.just put a tool tips in game to explain how to change the appearance to SOGA and let it like it was...

Xill

08-16-2010, 07:06 PM

SOGA models are becoming default to be more in-line with a F2P audience since a majority of them are asian. Honestly how hard is it to see whats coming down the pipe? Everything is pointing 1 direction with all of the optmistic people looking away pretending its not happening. And then a minority of people trying desperately to shout out all of the negative feedback and act like its some great "Second coming" of eq2.

Laenai

08-16-2010, 07:21 PM

<cite>Sweetsage@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I can't believe you people are complaining that the Default is changing to soga. How many clicks does it take to change it to default. I guess people will complain about anything.I would like to say Great job to the team for giving us players a variety to choose from. I myself and many I know were happy when soga was introduced.</blockquote>With everything they COULD have done in the time between GUs, this is yet another waste. Kind of like the new UI that is nothing but cosmetic, bringing absolutely nothing new and useful.But, hey, ACTUAL game play is something of the past, I guess, when you can now just buy your progress for their rock bottom prices on EQ2X.

Transen

08-16-2010, 09:27 PM

One question that hopefully gets anwsered before this hits live:Was it also intended to lock the original/soga's appearance once the character is created while on that particular character so that it can not be changed in-game?

ArmadaXeenelk

08-17-2010, 04:43 AM

Will the bug at least be fixed before it goes to live where Erudite soga models eye level isn't in their chest from first person perspective.... been bugging this for ages.Can we also get an answer why you want to default to SOGA, as the main reason for not fixing the SOGA models was because developers were not supporting them.... o.0

MurFalad

08-17-2010, 06:22 AM

I think SOE missed an opportunity here myself, personally I'd have defaulted the Live to non-Soga and EQ2X to soga, but even more importantly, why not modify the character select screen to choose Eastern or Western flavours of each character model you can just click between?That expands the choices in front of a player massively without doing so in a confusing way.Personally I'm not a fan either of the Soga models, the dark elves especially look bland, seeing the poll on flames its about 50/50 with the player base which makes this change feel very unproductive. It will be interesting to see though if the percentage of non-human races go up, since Frogloks look great with either option.

Oisin

08-17-2010, 01:22 PM

I find it funny that so many people are trying to claim that the SOGA models are not preferred. Does anyone else remember the demands from most players just to get SOE to bring the SOGA models here? They are by far more preferred to the original models. The demand back when we had more players proved that beyond the shadow of a doubt.

BMA-man

08-17-2010, 01:30 PM

Tuatha

08-17-2010, 01:36 PM

SOGA models look horrible compared to the original models, they clash with the rest of the game graphics. SOGA = ugly anorectic depressed manga crap. Personally I would be happy if they weren't even an option in the game, and they most certainly should not be set as default models.Someone at SOE must be trying really hard to see how much they can [Removed for Content] off their existing player base with GU57.

Oisin

08-17-2010, 01:47 PM

<cite>BMA-man wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Oisin wrote:</cite><blockquote>I find it funny that so many people are trying to claim that the SOGA models are not preferred. Does anyone else remember the demands from most players just to get SOE to bring the SOGA models here? They are by far more preferred to the original models. The demand back when we had more players proved that beyond the shadow of a doubt.</blockquote>Still, the original models are just that, the originals, so why make this totally random change?</blockquote>The reason is simply EQ2X. They want to bring in more players which are likely not going to care about or bother trying the original models. How would it look to someone new to the game that never even looked at the alternate appearance tab to suddenly see the original models as the default if they switched to the Live servers? Since the SOGA models have a wider appeal then it is good business sense to use them as the defaults on EQ2x. It's no coincidence that we are seeing this change just as the EQ2X server is getting close to launching.

Ahlana

08-17-2010, 02:19 PM

<cite>Oisin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>BMA-man wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Oisin wrote:</cite><blockquote>I find it funny that so many people are trying to claim that the SOGA models are not preferred. Does anyone else remember the demands from most players just to get SOE to bring the SOGA models here? They are by far more preferred to the original models. The demand back when we had more players proved that beyond the shadow of a doubt.</blockquote>Still, the original models are just that, the originals, so why make this totally random change?</blockquote>The reason is simply EQ2X. They want to bring in more players which are likely not going to care about or bother trying the original models. How would it look to someone new to the game that never even looked at the alternate appearance tab to suddenly see the original models as the default if they switched to the Live servers? Since the SOGA models have a wider appeal then it is good business sense to use them as the defaults on EQ2x. It's no coincidence that we are seeing this change just as the EQ2X server is getting close to launching.</blockquote>Yeah without taking an entire game survey, no one is going to be able to prove which ones have a wider appeal. If I were to look at this thread it would seem the originals are. But if I were to look at when they brought Soga over, then it would appear they were. Cause the ones that are affected are the ones that are going to bring up the topic.. so no, we nor you, nor sony knows which is more preferred.With that said, my only problem is that it changes my personal settings when I go to make a new character, which I believe is completely unacceptable.

BMA-man

08-17-2010, 02:54 PM

<cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Oisin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>BMA-man wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Oisin wrote:</cite><blockquote>I find it funny that so many people are trying to claim that the SOGA models are not preferred. Does anyone else remember the demands from most players just to get SOE to bring the SOGA models here? They are by far more preferred to the original models. The demand back when we had more players proved that beyond the shadow of a doubt.</blockquote>Still, the original models are just that, the originals, so why make this totally random change?</blockquote>The reason is simply EQ2X. They want to bring in more players which are likely not going to care about or bother trying the original models. How would it look to someone new to the game that never even looked at the alternate appearance tab to suddenly see the original models as the default if they switched to the Live servers? Since the SOGA models have a wider appeal then it is good business sense to use them as the defaults on EQ2x. It's no coincidence that we are seeing this change just as the EQ2X server is getting close to launching.</blockquote>Yeah without taking an entire game survey, no one is going to be able to prove which ones have a wider appeal. If I were to look at this thread it would seem the originals are. But if I were to look at when they brought Soga over, then it would appear they were. Cause the ones that are affected are the ones that are going to bring up the topic.. so no, we nor you, nor sony knows which is more preferred.With that said, my only problem is that it changes my personal settings when I go to make a new character, which I believe is completely unacceptable.</blockquote>Something just struck me: Why not show/use both model sets as a selling argument? More variety and everyone is happy.

Ahlana

08-17-2010, 02:59 PM

<cite>BMA-man wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>-snip-</cite>Something just struck me: Why not show/use both model sets as a selling argument? More variety and everyone is happy.</blockquote>Best Idea ever... when making a Character show side by side (Soga/Non-Soga) and then let the player pick. Just like you pick race.. then class.. ect...Pick Race > Model > ClassMakes sense to me, everyone wins

Keeper1975

08-19-2010, 09:43 AM

<cite>Oxide wrote:</cite><blockquote>Look at my screenshot and tell me SOGA is better ... <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/pinballg3/EQ2_000007.jpg" />And same toon as SOGA , think we can all agree there is no " Life" in my character in SOGA option ..<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/pinballg3/EQ2_000019.jpg" /></blockquote>IMO, your SOGA toon looks better - more real - the only thing i do not like is the teennage look (i would prefer a more adult look, like in the non-SOGA pic, but with all the effects of the SOGA).(note: it seems that you need to correct your gamma - the soga toon head has too much white).Anyway, i do like the SOGA look - at least on the majority of the chars...and has so, i do not understand why are you all upset by this...you have a choice - press alternate and it's done.The only thing that i do agree, is that the alternate button shouldn't be on the main screen, but rather inside the toon creation screen.my 2 cents.

Solarax

08-19-2010, 11:55 AM

the soga model in those pics does not look as good as the original

Juravael

08-19-2010, 01:17 PM

<cite>Bunji wrote:</cite><blockquote>Defaulting to SOGA during character creation was an intended change w/ GU57.</blockquote>Why?What the heck is happening to the game that we used to love?

Juravael

08-19-2010, 01:19 PM

<cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>BMA-man wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>-snip-</cite>Something just struck me: Why not show/use both model sets as a selling argument? More variety and everyone is happy.</blockquote>Best Idea ever... when making a Character show side by side (Soga/Non-Soga) and then let the player pick. Just like you pick race.. then class.. ect...Pick Race > Model > ClassMakes sense to me, everyone wins</blockquote>Very good idea!

asdfasdf

08-23-2010, 10:51 AM

TBH, the truth is not much Asians play EQ2 now, except Japanese Server.Way back to 2005, Gamania in Taiwan introduced EQ2 to Chinese-base players (not the "Chinese", but those Asians who speak and read Chinese in China, Taiwan, Hong Kong and even some people in South East Asia). It was a great news and effort to the Asian MMO, because the taste and style between Eastern and Western are so different which made those Western style MMO can't even survive in Asia.The first step is to re-model the player race, which is known as the SOGA model, or most of the Asian players act as you guys in this thread. Not to mention EQ's failure in Asia was also somewhat due to the player model is too ugly in their point of view. You won't try somethjing if your first impression is bad, isn't it?Nine months later, the failure of Beta drove Gamania to give up the business though they have spent a lot of money. But on the other hand, WoW took a great success with the same population. After that, five years has past, the sum of Chinese-based players is around 250 on Najena, Mistmoore and Blackburrow, and keep decreasing.Japanese Server is another story, their survival is which I think a kind of "face-saving issue" to Sony.So generally, I do not think SOE defualt SOGA is because of Asian players or RMT market in Asia. Saddly, not much people around me remember or even know the game exist.

Barx

08-23-2010, 11:10 AM

<cite>asdfasdf wrote:</cite><blockquote>So generally, I do not think SOE defualt SOGA is because of Asian players or RMT market in Asia. Saddly, not much people around me remember or even know the game exist.</blockquote>Then I wish they'd tell us WHY they decided to make it default to SOGA. We've had zero reasons for why they did it and I still think it needs to be reverted. They still post pictures, etc. using the original, "official" models, so why force people to look at SOGA when they log in and confuse them by listing the original models as the "alternate appearance" in char select.It makes zero sense and needs to be reverted. SOGA is old and hasn't been worked on for ages (their own animation dev said it has a huge # of issues that he will not get to fix), and yet they still forced this change through.

Barx

08-26-2010, 04:23 PM

I'd still like to hear some reasoning behind this.And a bit of irony: your character animation doesn't like SOGA either, so why are you still pushing it to everyone?<cite>ttobey wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah I'm betting it only works correctly on humans non Soga, so it would make my life easier if you all just started playing that.</blockquote>

TheSpin

08-26-2010, 04:36 PM

I'm satisfied with the change due to the fact that you can alternate between SOGA and original model for your character right at the character selection screen. It makes people aware that both models are available...... Knowing is Half the Battle!

Barx

08-26-2010, 04:44 PM

<cite>TheSpin wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm satisfied with the change due to the fact that you can alternate between SOGA and original model for your character right at the character selection screen. It makes people aware that both models are available...... Knowing is Half the Battle!</blockquote>You could always swap between the two. The original models are still the official models for everything they post and support -- which is why it makes no sense to make new users think SOGA is the default / official models.

Gungo

08-26-2010, 05:06 PM

<cite>Oisin wrote:</cite><blockquote>I find it funny that so many people are trying to claim that the SOGA models are not preferred. Does anyone else remember the demands from most players just to get SOE to bring the SOGA models here? They are by far more preferred to the original models. The demand back when we had more players proved that beyond the shadow of a doubt.</blockquote>There have been several polls since SOGA came out and the preference is about equal. In fact usuallly the original models pull ahead. But I think its safer to say a majority of players use a mix of soga and non soga since some soga models are absolutely horrendous.If you need further proof there was a poll on soga vs non soga on flames. It was only about 300 people but thats still more significant then your personal opinion.

Exelance

09-08-2010, 04:24 PM

Looks like they fixxed it for us. When you create a new character there is now a Alternate Apperance button right above the Gender buttons.

Princess Ariel

09-15-2010, 11:37 AM

Why do you insist on constantly changeing everything? LEAVE STUFF ALONE...fix what needs to be fixed but quit trying to make this game like WOW. We are not WOW, we don't want to be WOW. We are sick of our game changeing to bring in WOW players. Not all but most constantly fill up the channels comparing games, are rude, steal nodes, steal kills, we have to hold their hands explaining everything because they can't look at a manual or can't google. We are our own game, we like being our own game. You are alienating your core base players every single time you change something to please players that won't be around in 6 months or a year. What about us players that have been around for 6 years? Do you listen to anything we say? Because it doesn't seem like it at all.Furthermore quit doing the freaking stinking server updates. You have a problem with the Extended server then fix that but seriously we are a 6 year old game and this week alone we have been brought down 2 times. After 6 years we shouldn't have to be brought down all the time, not even WOW or Aion are brought down as much as we are. If you have to bring down the servers to fix the Extended game then hummm common sense should have told you to put it on its on server.

Theladorn

09-15-2010, 11:56 AM

<cite>Megaen@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why do you insist on constantly changeing everything? LEAVE STUFF ALONE...fix what needs to be fixed but quit trying to make this game like WOW. We are not WOW, we don't want to be WOW. We are sick of our game changeing to bring in WOW players. Not all but most constantly fill up the channels comparing games, are rude, steal nodes, steal kills, we have to hold their hands explaining everything because they can't look at a manual or can't google. We are our own game, we like being our own game. You are alienating your core base players every single time you change something to please players that won't be around in 6 months or a year. What about us players that have been around for 6 years? Do you listen to anything we say? Because it doesn't seem like it at all.Furthermore quit doing the freaking stinking server updates. You have a problem with the Extended server then fix that but seriously we are a 6 year old game and this week alone we have been brought down 2 times. After 6 years we shouldn't have to be brought down all the time, not even WOW or Aion are brought down as much as we are. If you have to bring down the servers to fix the Extended game then hummm common sense should have told you to put it on its on server. </blockquote>I'd have to agree with most of this post. If not the tone, then the intent.I originally played this game specifically because it wasn't WoW. I had heard that despite the lack of advertisement or exposure to the general population (or perhaps because of it) the game and it's playerbase were far superior to that other game. The realism and immersion used to be fantastic. Now it's just average. Very little about this game makes me oooh and aaah any more.It almost seems like the developers/programmers go entirely overboard (on purpose) when making changes. That way, when we complain and they finally compromise, we feel like we're getting something; when in fact the compromise solution is what the dev./prog. wanted to begin with.

Talther

09-17-2010, 05:15 PM

If it were not for the SOGA models, I'd not play. The old default models are what kept me away from the game. The faces can not be made to look right, the hairs are just ridiculous and unrealistic, the jaws far to square and wide, the chin to long, the eyes to close together and small, the nose to short. *shakes head* Once SOGA was brought on board I was interested in the game again, and enjoy it quite a bit now that the models (all SOGA for me) look much better.