GU 57: User-Interface Changes [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Rothgar

07-27-2010, 01:40 PM

Since there will undoubtedly be a lot of discussion around GU57 and the UI changes make up a decent chunk of the update, I wanted to start a thread specifically for feedback about the user-interface.Please keep this thread dedicated to user-interface changes and I will be happy to answer questions about our intent and listen to your ideas and suggestions.Please keep this in mind. The user-interface is an area of the game where you'll have about as many different opinions as we have players. There's no way to create a "perfect" UI in the eyes of everyone and this is why we have an awesome modding community. Prior to this update there were lots of people who preferred third-party UI's and we fully expect as many or more to continue using them. We expect some of you to like the new changes over the old and expect many to prefer the old changes over the new.That said, I'll respond to a few comments I've already seen posted.Character WindowThe Persona and Inventory windows have been combined into a new "Character" window. This will make it easier to swap gear while viewing your stats. The overall size of the new window is not much bigger than the old windows. We remapped Crouch so we could use "C" for this window since it just makes sense. We removed the default keybindings of "I" and "P" just to clean things up. So if you want to continue using those keys, you'll have to remap them yourself.XP BarThe new XP bar is not for everyone, we understand that. Our UI always lacked some sort of anchor element which resulted in a lot of floating windows. Third-party UI's have created top and bottom anchor bars for awhile now. We decided that we wanted to create an anchor like this for the default UI. The XP bar has been designed to snap to the top or the bottom of the screen, or you can keep it centered in the screen below your hotbars. As with any window, you can always hide this window completely if you don't care to see it. We expect our modding community to come out with all kinds of cool replacements for this bar, anywhere from minimal anchor bars filled with stats to other crazy things we probably aren't thinking of. The nice thing is that they can make use of the snapping functionality thats built into the bar and I can't wait to see what people come up with.HotbarsThe hotbars have a new grab handle on the right side to balance out the spinners on the left. If you hide the spinner, the grab bar will hide as well.Mini-Map / Compass / ClockThe mini-map now has a clock built in and indicators for your compass directions. Our goal was to minimize some clutter by removing the floating compass and clock windows. If you like your mini-map plain, you can hide the new clock elements by adjusting the frame and titlebar opacity. We left the compass in the game for those of you that want it but don't want to keep your minimap up. However, we did remove the clock window permanently.TutorialsThe new tutorial windows are designed to help players that are new to MMO's as well as players from other games to quickly learn the basics of gameplay in EQII. If you start a lot of alts and don't want to see these, they can be disabled under Options -> User Interface -> Game Features.If you start a new character, you'll notice that the UI is very clean now and we hope that this will be more appealing to new players. We've tried to make the UI as customizable as possible so our veteran players can continue to play in a way that they enjoy. In addition to the in-game customization, we hope to see lots of cool add-ons from the modding community.I look forward to hearing more of your feedback and hope you'll enjoy some of these changes.

Barx

07-27-2010, 01:48 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>HotbarsThe hotbars have a new grab handle on the right side to balance out the spinners on the left. If you hide the spinner, the grab bar will hide as well.</blockquote>I like the idea of an extra handle, however I'm wondering if you could give us the option to show/hide the spinner/handle as a right-click option again anywhere on the hotbar rather than in the "Hotbar Options" menu. Changing the visibility of the spinner/handle is something I generally only do for a short time then switch it back to it's previous setting (generally to move a hotbar, then hide the spinner), and having to go through that window adds time and annoyance to the process.

Yimway

07-27-2010, 01:50 PM

My only question is why click-to-cure is still left out of the default ui.

Calthine

07-27-2010, 01:51 PM

Silly, but I will miss my clock window.

FearDiadh

07-27-2010, 01:56 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>My only question is why click-to-cure is still left out of the default ui.</blockquote>That is the only reason I use Proft, hehe.

Barx

07-27-2010, 01:56 PM

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>Silly, but I will miss my clock window.</blockquote>I'm with ya Calthine. My minimap is in a completely different spot from my clock, and I use the clock regularly (for both time and for /loc info). I would love to see it in the same circumstance as the compass -- not normally visible, but there if you want it.

Deson

07-27-2010, 01:57 PM

Ristan

07-27-2010, 01:58 PM

I miss the clock window too, as i hardly ever use te mini map.

Avianna

07-27-2010, 02:02 PM

I like all the changes save two rothgar.1.) gimmi my clock back2.) Take out the huge ugly SC button and put it back ito the start menu where it belongs.P.S. I can live with the huge ugly SC button but pls gimmi the clock back

Malacha

07-27-2010, 02:03 PM

WHY are you removing the clock??? There is absolutely no reason to do this, and will lead to frustration on my part, as I use the clock ALOT, and do not want to be forced to display it in my mini-map. Again with the removing options... not good, not good at all.

Nevynmysti

07-27-2010, 02:03 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Since there will undoubtedly be a lot of discussion around GU57 and the UI changes make up a decent chunk of the update, I wanted to start a thread specifically for feedback about the user-interface.Please keep this thread dedicated to user-interface changes and I will be happy to answer questions about our intent and listen to your ideas and suggestions.Please keep this in mind. The user-interface is an area of the game where you'll have about as many different opinions as we have players. There's no way to create a "perfect" UI in the eyes of everyone and this is why we have an awesome modding community. Prior to this update there were lots of people who preferred third-party UI's and we fully expect as many or more to continue using them. We expect some of you to like the new changes over the old and expect many to prefer the old changes over the new.That said, I'll respond to a few comments I've already seen posted.Character WindowThe Persona and Inventory windows have been combined into a new "Character" window. This will make it easier to swap gear while viewing your stats. The overall size of the new window is not much bigger than the old windows. We remapped Crouch so we could use "C" for this window since it just makes sense. We removed the default keybindings of "I" and "P" just to clean things up. So if you want to continue using those keys, you'll have to remap them yourself.Will have to see this ingame to decide on if I like or not, only to say atm is I HOPE and EXPECT that you are including options to still use the ui as it is before GU57.XP BarThe new XP bar is not for everyone, we understand that. Our UI always lacked some sort of anchor element which resulted in a lot of floating windows. Third-party UI's have created top and bottom anchor bars for awhile now. We decided that we wanted to create an anchor like this for the default UI. The XP bar has been designed to snap to the top or the bottom of the screen, or you can keep it centered in the screen below your hotbars. As with any window, you can always hide this window completely if you don't care to see it. We expect our modding community to come out with all kinds of cool replacements for this bar, anywhere from minimal anchor bars filled with stats to other crazy things we probably aren't thinking of. The nice thing is that they can make use of the snapping functionality thats built into the bar and I can't wait to see what people come up with.Upset is my initial reaction. I got all my hotbars running along the bottome of my screen, with the exp bar centered so I can easily spot it when I need it. I don't like the fact your forcing us to have it snap to grid, either top or bottom. From everything I have heard, your taking all the wrong things from the modding community UI's that I dislike and clutter my screen up.HotbarsThe hotbars have a new grab handle on the right side to balance out the spinners on the left. If you hide the spinner, the grab bar will hide as well.This is good, hope it helps me move them more when I decide to move them.Mini-Map / Compass / ClockThe mini-map now has a clock built in and indicators for your compass directions. Our goal was to minimize some clutter by removing the floating compass and clock windows. If you like your mini-map plain, you can hide the new clock elements by adjusting the frame and titlebar opacity. We left the compass in the game for those of you that want it but don't want to keep your minimap up. However, we did remove the clock window permanently.Upset. I like haveing a seperate clock circle. I don't like that fact that its a frame on my mini map that is so much more clean and neat run without frames on at all. TutorialsThe new tutorial windows are designed to help players that are new to MMO's as well as players from other games to quickly learn the basics of gameplay in EQII. If you start a lot of alts and don't want to see these, they can be disabled under Options -> User Interface -> Game Features. Already run with these off since I am experienced but glad you are considering these new folks.If you start a new character, you'll notice that the UI is very clean now and we hope that this will be more appealing to new players. We've tried to make the UI as customizable as possible so our veteran players can continue to play in a way that they enjoy. In addition to the in-game customization, we hope to see lots of cool add-ons from the modding community.I look forward to hearing more of your feedback and hope you'll enjoy some of these changes.</blockquote>Changes in Purple are what I have to say... going to read up and test this out as soon as I can log into test....In response to previous posts:Agree with Atan on why you are ignoring the CLICK to CURE stuff. Its the only reason I looked into the super used PROPHIT UI. And what I discovered is the best UI I have had is a hybrid, click to cures from Prophit and the rest default UI that is currently used. I agree with Everyone about the removal of the clock, completely silly. Agree with Deson as well on the key mapping... as well as the fact I liked having the Persona window seperate from the Character Inventory window because I put them on opposite sides of the screen and can watch the changes as I make them with changes in gear. All one window not any bigger then it is now won't show all this <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I don't like what I am hearing has been added to the maintained window at all. I don't want all that freaking stupid writing list right out by each icon, thats what mousover was for!I don't like what I am hearing about extra freaking SC Button on my screen either. I hate it in FreeRealms and I will hate it here. Better have an option to turn this button off our you will probably lose me as a customer. I thought the big thing was keeping current customers but guess not. I can get to the SC Store just fine through the Welcome Screen or the EQII Button. I don't need a [Removed for Content] button on my screen for it!

dubritski

07-27-2010, 02:06 PM

Charcter window on C, what do we crouch with then ?Also i saw somewhere that new spells would overwrite the old version on the hotbar, not sure if it was here or on eq2wire, I think that is kinda dumb, since my old spells are all masters or experts, and i dont want to use the new one until they are at least an upgrade to the old one.

Kreton

07-27-2010, 02:07 PM

So you are forcing us to have the minimap open just to see the clock now? I like the ability to quickly see what time it is while I'm in game, and I do not like having the minimap open to "clutter" my screen. Let us have the option of using the clock window.

KNINE

07-27-2010, 02:08 PM

hopefully profit updater gets updated quickly is all i can say /shrug

Deson

07-27-2010, 02:08 PM

<cite>dubritski wrote:</cite><blockquote>Charcter window on C, what do we crouch with then ?Also i saw somewhere that new spells would overwrite the old version on the hotbar, not sure if it was here or on eq2wire, I think that is kinda dumb, since my old spells are all masters or experts, and i dont want to use the new one until they are at least an upgrade to the old one.</blockquote>Hopefully there is more to come like ensuring the auto pop spells are always equal or better and a revamp of training to be more like AA/the old training system.

Hirofortis

07-27-2010, 02:10 PM

Click to cure is probably the single biggest reason anyone uses other ui's over the default. Would be nice that in the default ui.

dubritski

07-27-2010, 02:10 PM

<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>dubritski wrote:</cite><blockquote>Charcter window on C, what do we crouch with then ?Also i saw somewhere that new spells would overwrite the old version on the hotbar, not sure if it was here or on eq2wire, I think that is kinda dumb, since my old spells are all masters or experts, and i dont want to use the new one until they are at least an upgrade to the old one.</blockquote>Hopefully there is more to come like ensuring the auto pop spells are always equal or better and a revamp of training to be more like AA/the old training system.</blockquote>I kinda hope that new Apprentice spells arent going to be better than old masters,... tho i would love to see new experts be atleast as good as old masters.

Yimway

07-27-2010, 02:11 PM

Also, where is the autoattack indicator for the UI.I don't see how you can 'update' the UI and ignore the 2 most important game mechanics missing from the current one.

Rothgar

07-27-2010, 02:13 PM

<cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>HotbarsThe hotbars have a new grab handle on the right side to balance out the spinners on the left. If you hide the spinner, the grab bar will hide as well.</blockquote>I like the idea of an extra handle, however I'm wondering if you could give us the option to show/hide the spinner/handle as a right-click option again anywhere on the hotbar rather than in the "Hotbar Options" menu. Changing the visibility of the spinner/handle is something I generally only do for a short time then switch it back to it's previous setting (generally to move a hotbar, then hide the spinner), and having to go through that window adds time and annoyance to the process.</blockquote>Perhaps. However, if you're showing/hiding the spinner just so you can move it, I think you'll like one of the other GU57 changes. Pressing F10 will turn on the borders for all of your UI windows just like it always has, but now, while in this mode, you can freely move all windows even if they are locked and click-through. We also disable clicking of the hotbar buttons in this mode so you can drag the hotbar from anywhere.

Barx

07-27-2010, 02:22 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>HotbarsThe hotbars have a new grab handle on the right side to balance out the spinners on the left. If you hide the spinner, the grab bar will hide as well.</blockquote>I like the idea of an extra handle, however I'm wondering if you could give us the option to show/hide the spinner/handle as a right-click option again anywhere on the hotbar rather than in the "Hotbar Options" menu. Changing the visibility of the spinner/handle is something I generally only do for a short time then switch it back to it's previous setting (generally to move a hotbar, then hide the spinner), and having to go through that window adds time and annoyance to the process.</blockquote>Perhaps. However, if you're showing/hiding the spinner just so you can move it, I think you'll like one of the other GU57 changes. Pressing F10 will turn on the borders for all of your UI windows just like it always has, but now, while in this mode, you can freely move all windows even if they are locked and click-through. We also disable clicking of the hotbar buttons in this mode so you can drag the hotbar from anywhere.</blockquote>Ah that's true, I forgot about that. Given that, making it separate isn't really needed then.

Eezel

07-27-2010, 02:27 PM

XP Bar - I am hoping that its only a change of allowing the docking and not that a ton of modding is needed to make my current xp bar functional in this update. I like where I have it and how it looks. Its a variation of Profit UI's XP bar from a few updates ago and I haven't ever wanted to change it. I'm hoping this will be the case as I have tried many other Games and hated the UI's of nearly every single one of them including custom ones built for them. THEY LACK my comfort zone of use.Clock - Agree with a lot of others we want our clock. Simple factCasting etc - Hope these changes are minimal as well.Profile/Inventroy - Nice change except now what do we do Prouch instead of C rouch? The key assigned is the same key many use when raiding to crouch. Think it still could of defaulted to P as many hit that to see their Character Profile and its a simple key press.Compass really should have an always show ability to keep it up.Hotbars nice change hope again its easy to keep our current ones with a simple change to add the new drag option in.

seamus

07-27-2010, 02:27 PM

Can we get an AutoAttack bar? I tried using the one on EQ2Interface and it only works sporadically.With weapon delays of 4, 5 and even 6 seconds and haste to compensate for it would be a great addition to the UI.Thanks

circusgirl

07-27-2010, 02:30 PM

The three most important/useful mods out there (not necessarilly in order) are:<ol><li>EQ2 maps</li><li>autoattack bar</li><li>click to cure</li></ol><div>It seems a bit silly to revamp the UI without these features.</div>

GrunEQ

07-27-2010, 02:35 PM

I want to keep my clock and I don't keep mini-map up.Get rid of the all the clutter on the maintained window and put it back like it was.Have the character window be keyed to P instead of changing it to C...this was needlessly confusing.Put in click to cure and auto attack bar.Moving UIs thru F10, I hope this shows up the small windows that can get buried under other windows and they show up, too.I also how that if we don't want the new replacment spells yet, we will be able to keep the old spell on the hot bar till we are ready.

Cusashorn

07-27-2010, 02:35 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Character WindowThe Persona and Inventory windows have been combined into a new "Character" window. This will make it easier to swap gear while viewing your stats. The overall size of the new window is not much bigger than the old windows. We remapped Crouch so we could use "C" for this window since it just makes sense. We removed the default keybindings of "I" and "P" just to clean things up. So if you want to continue using those keys, you'll have to remap them yourself.Looks like I'll be remapping the Character window to P or I (or both) again... though I've been using D to "duck" since EverQuest first started.XP BarThe new XP bar is not for everyone, we understand that. Our UI always lacked some sort of anchor element which resulted in a lot of floating windows. Third-party UI's have created top and bottom anchor bars for awhile now. We decided that we wanted to create an anchor like this for the default UI. The XP bar has been designed to snap to the top or the bottom of the screen, or you can keep it centered in the screen below your hotbars. As with any window, you can always hide this window completely if you don't care to see it. We expect our modding community to come out with all kinds of cool replacements for this bar, anywhere from minimal anchor bars filled with stats to other crazy things we probably aren't thinking of. The nice thing is that they can make use of the snapping functionality thats built into the bar and I can't wait to see what people come up with.I don't understand... The XP Bar can no longer be placed exactly where we want it to be placed? Will my XP bar be automatically moved when this goes in? I don't know what these "anchors" are.HotbarsThe hotbars have a new grab handle on the right side to balance out the spinners on the left. If you hide the spinner, the grab bar will hide as well.This was always an annoyance for me, so I'm glad to see it.Mini-Map / Compass / ClockThe mini-map now has a clock built in and indicators for your compass directions. Our goal was to minimize some clutter by removing the floating compass and clock windows. If you like your mini-map plain, you can hide the new clock elements by adjusting the frame and titlebar opacity. We left the compass in the game for those of you that want it but don't want to keep your minimap up. However, we did remove the clock window permanently.This is just stupid. I don't like using the minimap, and shouldn't have to bring it up just to see what time it is in Norrath. I've had my clock setting neatly in the corner of my interface for years now.</blockquote>

Rothgar

07-27-2010, 02:35 PM

<cite>Vinka@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>The three most important/useful mods out there (not necessarilly in order) are:<ol><li>EQ2 maps</li><li>autoattack bar</li><li>click to cure</li></ol><div>It seems a bit silly to revamp the UI without these features.</div></blockquote>EQ2 Maps is definitely helpful, but our quest ROI's and POI's that now appear on the map will be very helpful in that regard too.The auto-attack bar is definitely more of an advanced feature that we will probably add in the future but wasn't something we had time to implement for GU57. (Although most of the work was already done to give modders the ability to add it)Click-to-cure is still something we're talking about adding but wasn't part of the main goal for this update.

Rothgar

07-27-2010, 02:37 PM

<cite>GrunEQ wrote:</cite><blockquote>Get rid of the all the clutter on the maintained window and put it back like it was.</blockquote>You can already do this, just right-click and choose "Hide Text".

Andu

07-27-2010, 02:38 PM

Many would like to use the default UI but until it has the click-to-cast option then it is a non-starter for a huge portion of the playerbase.EDIT - note cast not cure. Its not just cures that get tied to these buttons.

Wonsokman

07-27-2010, 02:39 PM

will test/test copy be unlocked anytime soon?

Nisala

07-27-2010, 02:39 PM

Will the new PoI/RoI feature still work with eq2maps installed? Or will I need to get rid of eq2maps to see these new PoI's?

GrunEQ

07-27-2010, 02:40 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vinka@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>The three most important/useful mods out there (not necessarilly in order) are:<ol><li>EQ2 maps</li><li>autoattack bar</li><li>click to cure</li></ol><div>It seems a bit silly to revamp the UI without these features.</div></blockquote>EQ2 Maps is definitely helpful, but our quest ROI's and POI's that now appear on the map will be very helpful in that regard too.The auto-attack bar is definitely more of an advanced feature that we will probably add in the future but wasn't something we had time to implement for GU57. (Although most of the work was already done to give modders the ability to add it)Click-to-cure is still something we're talking about adding but wasn't part of the main goal for this update.</blockquote>LOL these features have been requested for a long time, and it seems odd that they were not a priority. Seeing what changes that did take place, it's even odder.

Runewind

07-27-2010, 02:43 PM

I'm with the others on the clock thing. I use my clock CONSTANTLY. and I HATE the mini-map window. To me this is just forcing me to either use a feature I hate or not know what time it is. And, in addition, it's really stupid because all the other changes that you've done to the UI including the new map system can be turned off and set back to the default. Why not do this with the clock? Also if you say you know the new exp bar isn't for everybody why not allow us to use the old one instead if we want? Forcing people into UI changes that they don't want is a good way to alienate and frustrate players.

seamus

07-27-2010, 02:48 PM

<cite>GrunEQ wrote:</cite><blockquote>LOL these features have been requested for a long time, and it seems odd that they were not a priority. Seeing what changes that did take place, it's even odder.</blockquote>That's because the SC button is infinitely more important then features that would actually help players play the game.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" />Hmm, I see it now: Auto-attack bar potion coming to the Marketplace!

seamus

07-27-2010, 02:50 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>The auto-attack bar is definitely more of an advanced feature that we will probably add in the future but wasn't something we had time to implement for GU57. (Although most of the work was already done to give modders the ability to add it)Click-to-cure is still something we're talking about adding but wasn't part of the main goal for this update.</blockquote>Is there some documentation for this someplace?

Rothgar

07-27-2010, 02:52 PM

We hear you loud and clear on the clock and that's why these changes go to Test Server first. We're already discussing bringing it back but leaving it off by default for new players. I'm truly surprised at how many people use that window, but that's what feedback is for, right? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Runewind

07-27-2010, 02:54 PM

Malacha

07-27-2010, 02:56 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>We hear you loud and clear on the clock and that's why these changes go to Test Server first. We're already discussing bringing it back but leaving it off by default for new players. I'm truly surprised at how many people use that window, but that's what feedback is for, right? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>This surprises me... how can you think people DON'T use it? First off, I play in full screen, so my computer clock is not easily available for me to see. Also, some quests require a certain time in-game for it to be done, so knowing the in game time is important for those quests. Just seems silly you would remove something as necessary as a clock and think no one would care.

Morrias

07-27-2010, 03:00 PM

<cite>Malachani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>We hear you loud and clear on the clock and that's why these changes go to Test Server first. We're already discussing bringing it back but leaving it off by default for new players. I'm truly surprised at how many people use that window, but that's what feedback is for, right? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>This surprises me... how can you think people DON'T use it? First off, I play in full screen, so my computer clock is not easily available for me to see. Also, some quests require a certain time in-game for it to be done, so knowing the in game time is important for those quests. Just seems silly you would remove something as necessary as a clock and think no one would care.</blockquote>Yeah here I was thinking that was one of the most important elements of the UI.. O.O

Barx

07-27-2010, 03:05 PM

<cite>Malachani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>We hear you loud and clear on the clock and that's why these changes go to Test Server first. We're already discussing bringing it back but leaving it off by default for new players. I'm truly surprised at how many people use that window, but that's what feedback is for, right? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>This surprises me... how can you think people DON'T use it? First off, I play in full screen, so my computer clock is not easily available for me to see. Also, some quests require a certain time in-game for it to be done, so knowing the in game time is important for those quests. Just seems silly you would remove something as necessary as a clock and think no one would care.</blockquote>Their original plan was to roll it into the mini-map, not remove a time display entirely. But I think they didn't realize how many of us either don't use the minimap all the time or just don't want our time stuck to it.However, Rothgar is usually pretty good about adjusting to popular sentiment, as you can see in this case =)

Nevynmysti

07-27-2010, 03:07 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>GrunEQ wrote:</cite><blockquote>Get rid of the all the clutter on the maintained window and put it back like it was.</blockquote>You can already do this, just right-click and choose "Hide Text".</blockquote>Hmmms, It shouldn't be there in the first place in my opinion. Its what TOOLTIPS, mousing over the items was for....

Rothgar

07-27-2010, 03:11 PM

<cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Malachani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>We hear you loud and clear on the clock and that's why these changes go to Test Server first. We're already discussing bringing it back but leaving it off by default for new players. I'm truly surprised at how many people use that window, but that's what feedback is for, right? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>This surprises me... how can you think people DON'T use it? First off, I play in full screen, so my computer clock is not easily available for me to see. Also, some quests require a certain time in-game for it to be done, so knowing the in game time is important for those quests. Just seems silly you would remove something as necessary as a clock and think no one would care.</blockquote>Their original plan was to roll it into the mini-map, not remove a time display entirely. But I think they didn't realize how many of us either don't use the minimap all the time or just don't want our time stuck to it.However, Rothgar is usually pretty good about adjusting to popular sentiment, as you can see in this case =)</blockquote>Correct, its not gone, we just moved it. The mini-map could be argued as being just as important if not much more important than the clock or compass by themselves. By moving them to a window that many people will have open anyway, we are actually reducing the amount of windows that are necessary to have open and reducing clutter.As I said in my opening post, we know that not everyone plays the same way so we fully expected some complaints. If bringing the clock back as an individual window is something that will make the game more playable for existing players, I'm happy to do it.The Test Servers should be unlocked soon and I'm excited to hear your feedback on the other portions of the UI changes.

bks6721

07-27-2010, 03:13 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vinka@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>The three most important/useful mods out there (not necessarilly in order) are:<ol><li>EQ2 maps</li><li>autoattack bar</li><li>click to cure</li></ol><div>It seems a bit silly to revamp the UI without these features.</div></blockquote>EQ2 Maps is definitely helpful, but our quest ROI's and POI's that now appear on the map will be very helpful in that regard too.The auto-attack bar is definitely more of an advanced feature that we will probably add in the future but wasn't something we had time to implement for GU57. (Although most of the work was already done to give modders the ability to add it)Click-to-cure is still something we're talking about adding but wasn't part of the main goal for this update.</blockquote>Those 3 are the MAIN reason people use 3rd party UI's. Nobody will switch back to default UI unless those are added.

Eriol

07-27-2010, 03:14 PM

Re-ordering group members. Especially for healers, this is just something that would make life MUCH easier. And even for DPS, always being able to assist "F2" or whatever is very VERY convenient (I've experienced it in other games and it's VERY handy).And I echo many other sentiments here about auto-attack bar and click-to-cure.

Obadiah

07-27-2010, 03:14 PM

<cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Malachani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>We hear you loud and clear on the clock and that's why these changes go to Test Server first. We're already discussing bringing it back but leaving it off by default for new players. I'm truly surprised at how many people use that window, but that's what feedback is for, right? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>This surprises me... how can you think people DON'T use it? First off, I play in full screen, so my computer clock is not easily available for me to see. Also, some quests require a certain time in-game for it to be done, so knowing the in game time is important for those quests. Just seems silly you would remove something as necessary as a clock and think no one would care.</blockquote>Their original plan was to roll it into the mini-map, not remove a time display entirely. But I think they didn't realize how many of us either don't use the minimap all the time or just don't want our time stuck to it.However, Rothgar is usually pretty good about adjusting to popular sentiment, as you can see in this case =)</blockquote>Thankfully things are still customizable. I haven't had the clock set to always be open since 2005. I only turn it on for the (very rare) aforementioned quests with time-specific components. Total waste of a window IMO.ButI'm clearly in the minority. For me, having ROIs on the map would make a more enjoyable gaming experience than having A) Nothing like the default UI or B) Exact locations for everything like EQ2maps. I prefer to be pointed in the right general direction.

tkia

07-27-2010, 03:19 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Perhaps. However, if you're showing/hiding the spinner just so you can move it, I think you'll like one of the other GU57 changes. Pressing F10 will turn on the borders for all of your UI windows just like it always has, but now, while in this mode, you can freely move all windows even if they are locked and click-through. We also disable clicking of the hotbar buttons in this mode so you can drag the hotbar from anywhere.</blockquote>The grab handle is a nightmare for people using a vertical orientation for hotbars. Now not only do you have all the dead space around the spinner but you have an equal amount of dead space around the grab bar. Please could you take another look at moving the control elements to the top/bottom of the bar when they're placed vertically?The auto unlock added to the F10 option is great however, the F10 option still does not highlight ALL windows to allow them to be moved easily. Things like the cast bar and message windows are still going to require you to find a harvest node or something so that you can force them to show long enough to be grabbed and moved.

Barx

07-27-2010, 03:20 PM

<cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Those 3 are the MAIN reason people use 3rd party UI's. Nobody will switch back to default UI unless those are added.</blockquote>I doubt they're trying to get people to switch back to the default. They want the default to be useful and approachable for new players -- to make it so that more new people don't feel the need for a custom UI.EQ2MAP is not something they can just magically merge into the default. The POIs have to be downloaded from non-SOE servers and periodically updated; about the only way I see that they could integrate it is if they bought the EQ2MAP database from Zam (who owns EQ2interface) and reworked it to host on SOE servers.#2 and #3 are reasonable requests for features in the default UI. They don't need to be immediately visible to new players, but having them in the default would make it easier for folks. That and click-to-cure could be handled more elegantly than it currently is (although at least the /useabilityonplayer g# syntax was a good step).

Deson

07-27-2010, 03:26 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>We hear you loud and clear on the clock and that's why these changes go to Test Server first. We're already discussing bringing it back but leaving it off by default for new players. I'm truly surprised at how many people use that window, but that's what feedback is for, right? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>No offense intended but this isn't the first time I've seen you say this on critical matters. Combined with your posts on "advanced" features like click to cure, I'm curious where you are getting your direct feedback from. People you directly interact with that is.

Eveningsong

07-27-2010, 03:31 PM

I definitely like the clock, although I always use my mini map (in fact, I make it larger and slightly translucent off to the side) so having it all-in-one may be ok, I'll have to play around with it and see. I'm happy to hear that the maintained window text has an option to turn off now, thank you <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.

Rothgar

07-27-2010, 03:36 PM

<cite>tkia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Perhaps. However, if you're showing/hiding the spinner just so you can move it, I think you'll like one of the other GU57 changes. Pressing F10 will turn on the borders for all of your UI windows just like it always has, but now, while in this mode, you can freely move all windows even if they are locked and click-through. We also disable clicking of the hotbar buttons in this mode so you can drag the hotbar from anywhere.</blockquote>The grab handle is a nightmare for people using a vertical orientation for hotbars. Now not only do you have all the dead space around the spinner but you have an equal amount of dead space around the grab bar. Please could you take another look at moving the control elements to the top/bottom of the bar when they're placed vertically?The auto unlock added to the F10 option is great however, the F10 option still does not highlight ALL windows to allow them to be moved easily. Things like the cast bar and message windows are still going to require you to find a harvest node or something so that you can force them to show long enough to be grabbed and moved.</blockquote>Agreed, we might be able to find a way to force certain windows visible, but it would get pretty busy if we forced casting bar, breath bar, pvp immunity bar, etc., all open. I think most people don't realize just how many windows there really are. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Beerfan

07-27-2010, 03:48 PM

I touched UI several times, when I had to fix ThorUI after another update.TBH I'd like to see several things:- a documentation to all API <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> At this moment, we just need to dig thru default xml's to see what we can do,- better tool for visual designing widows and UI in general. I'm afraid to say this but your default UI Builder plainly sucks :/- making maitained spells, maitanied buffs and detrimental window more configurable (showing more buffs, grouping them, sorting by group, name, type, time to expire etc),- making chat tabs more independent (so each of them can have independent configuration)- making FPS window placement more persistent (so game could remember last position of that windows after game restart).As for default windows we got, I'm with all my hands to make UI less clutter. That means ditching useless windows and making viewable space more clear. So I think ditching compass window is a good move. Merging it with minimap is a cool thing. When I'm raiding, I close all not needed windows, like mini map, journal thingy, compass, clock etc...Ohh and if someone could post screens from test server, showing new UI features it would be nice.

bks6721

07-27-2010, 03:58 PM

I've never used the ingame clock. I have one hanging on my wall and don't need it on my screen. If I'm doing one of the 2 quests that i can think of that require knowing actuall game time I can type /time and find it out.edit to add.. the ONLY thing I use the mini map for is Battlegrounds. Otherwise it is not ever displayed.

Warpax

07-27-2010, 04:11 PM

any plans for the player/target/impliedtarget windows? while you're at it how about adding a focus window and a working /setfocus command

Sydares

07-27-2010, 04:17 PM

Auto-attack bar wouldn't be necessary if you'd just calculate autoattacks seperately from CAs. -_-

Morgane

07-27-2010, 04:18 PM

I don't use the mini-map because I don't have enough room on my monitor, unfortunately. I'd like to see the clock stay, too.

Warpax

07-27-2010, 04:18 PM

<cite>Sydares wrote:</cite><blockquote>Auto-attack bar wouldn't be necessary if you'd just calculate autoattacks seperately from CAs. -_-</blockquote>^^^

Rothgar

07-27-2010, 04:27 PM

<cite>Warpax wrote:</cite><blockquote>any plans for the player/target/impliedtarget windows? while you're at it how about adding a focus window and a working /setfocus command</blockquote>Yes, actually. These three windows were the other big ones that we really wanted to hit before GU57 but there just wasn't enough time. We don't want to completely change them, we just want to make the health and power bars more readable and possibly have them show numbers on top of the progress bars.Hopefully this is something we can work in shortly after GU57. We aren't planning on leaving it until GU58.

Barx

07-27-2010, 04:30 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hopefully this is something we can work in shortly after GU57. We aren't planning on leaving it until GU58.</blockquote>That is something I am very happy to hear. Quarterly GUs are fine for large content updates (which 57 seems to be a bit lacking unfortuntely...), but things like UI changes and other relatively small tweaks would be much better on a 'when they're ready' basis.

Rothgar

07-27-2010, 04:31 PM

<cite>Beerfan wrote:</cite><blockquote>- better tool for visual designing widows and UI in general. I'm afraid to say this but your default UI Builder plainly sucks :/</blockquote>Aww man! I actually like UI Builder. Make sure you're running the latest version of it. You're right, it was pretty bad 5 years ago but we've made some pretty nice changes to it over the years so that its much more user-friendly now. Yes, it still has its quirks, but I wouldn't use the term "sucks". <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />If you've got some specific suggestions for the tool, please PM them to me. I have an ongoing list of things I'd like to do with UI Builder in our copious amounts of free time!

Warpax

07-27-2010, 04:33 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Warpax wrote:</cite><blockquote>any plans for the player/target/impliedtarget windows? while you're at it how about adding a focus window and a working /setfocus command</blockquote>Yes, actually. These three windows were the other big ones that we really wanted to hit before GU57 but there just wasn't enough time. We don't want to completely change them, we just want to make the health and power bars more readable and possibly have them show numbers on top of the progress bars.Hopefully this is something we can work in shortly after GU57. We aren't planning on leaving it until GU58.</blockquote>alot of us like to place the player/target windows at the bottom of the screen please remeber this with any redesignsalso if possible could you make it so that we could display target effects at the top or bottom of the window(instead of right&down; right&up.thanks

OmniAzure

07-27-2010, 05:02 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>tkia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Perhaps. However, if you're showing/hiding the spinner just so you can move it, I think you'll like one of the other GU57 changes. Pressing F10 will turn on the borders for all of your UI windows just like it always has, but now, while in this mode, you can freely move all windows even if they are locked and click-through. We also disable clicking of the hotbar buttons in this mode so you can drag the hotbar from anywhere.</blockquote>The grab handle is a nightmare for people using a vertical orientation for hotbars. Now not only do you have all the dead space around the spinner but you have an equal amount of dead space around the grab bar. Please could you take another look at moving the control elements to the top/bottom of the bar when they're placed vertically?The auto unlock added to the F10 option is great however, the F10 option still does not highlight ALL windows to allow them to be moved easily. Things like the cast bar and message windows are still going to require you to find a harvest node or something so that you can force them to show long enough to be grabbed and moved.</blockquote>Agreed, we might be able to find a way to force certain windows visible, but it would get pretty busy if we forced casting bar, breath bar, pvp immunity bar, etc., all open. I think most people don't realize just how many windows there really are. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>I think those of us that know the /commands to force those windows open so we can position them have a general idea<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />. Right now the way it works on test you it <F10> all open windows go opaque, hit <F10> again and all open windows are hidden, hit <F10> a third time and the windows rest to the default of transparent/hidden. Would it be possibe to add in another toggle that forces those extra windows visible? What do you think about changing it so that on the second press all windows show just like they do on live now, then a third press would give the new behaviour on test where all windows become movable without regard to locked/click through settings including cast bars, breath bars, auto attack bars and on-screen messages? The reason I say that is I do like having all the windows opaque to get a sense of how I am using my screen space and that let's me get rid of as much dead space as possible. If you think that would be too much to cycle through then perhaps leaving the behavior of <F10> like it is on live and adding a key combination of say <CTRL> <ALT> <F10> to trigger the new behaviour on test; you could then also add all the windows that don't normally show in this mode and it wouldn't be overwhelming so much as the desired result <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" />. Is that a workable idea?I really like the change as it is now, can live with it if that's as good as it get's, and I have a macro on live to force those windows that can't be shown with <F10> in order to move them when I want to adjust my UI but I only have it on one character. It would be really nice to have a built in option to force them to show without the use of in-game /commands or taking up macro space.

LardLord

07-27-2010, 05:24 PM

Please add click-to-cure and the auto-attack bar. Without them, the default UI is more-or-less useless to anyone trying to play the game at a high level.

Powers

07-27-2010, 05:32 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>We don't want to completely change them, we just want to make the health and power bars more readable and possibly have them show numbers on top of the progress bars.</blockquote>Numbers add to visual clutter. The graphic gauge has always been fine for me, and it's quicker to read than trying to read a number.Powers &8^]

Rick777

07-27-2010, 05:35 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>My only question is why click-to-cure is still left out of the default ui.</blockquote>You can have a full click to cure with the default UI, much cleaner than some of the 3rd party ones IMO, especially after Rothgar fixed the way macros worked and added raid macros. The only problem is the lack of hotbars, you can easily run out of hotbars making a click to cure UI for a raid.Which brings me to my plea, MORE HOTBARS!!

Nevynmysti

07-27-2010, 05:53 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Beerfan wrote:</cite><blockquote>- better tool for visual designing widows and UI in general. I'm afraid to say this but your default UI Builder plainly sucks :/</blockquote>Aww man! I actually like UI Builder. Make sure you're running the latest version of it. You're right, it was pretty bad 5 years ago but we've made some pretty nice changes to it over the years so that its much more user-friendly now. Yes, it still has its quirks, but I wouldn't use the term "sucks". <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />If you've got some specific suggestions for the tool, please PM them to me. I have an ongoing list of things I'd like to do with UI Builder in our copious amounts of free time!</blockquote>My big thing with it is I can't figure out how to use it.... no forums/ help/ directions to use the tool.... I have tried comparing btw different UI's to see how they did something and can't figure it out.For example... did they do everything in the builder or did they have to use notepad/ photoshop etc to make the xml files and the design graphic files then find a way to add them in using UI Builder? Or did it all occur in UI BUilder? Where do they access some of the information I am finding in xml files??

Rothgar

07-27-2010, 06:00 PM

<cite>Nevynmysti wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Beerfan wrote:</cite><blockquote>- better tool for visual designing widows and UI in general. I'm afraid to say this but your default UI Builder plainly sucks :/</blockquote>Aww man! I actually like UI Builder. Make sure you're running the latest version of it. You're right, it was pretty bad 5 years ago but we've made some pretty nice changes to it over the years so that its much more user-friendly now. Yes, it still has its quirks, but I wouldn't use the term "sucks". <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />If you've got some specific suggestions for the tool, please PM them to me. I have an ongoing list of things I'd like to do with UI Builder in our copious amounts of free time!</blockquote>My big thing with it is I can't figure out how to use it.... no forums/ help/ directions to use the tool.... I have tried comparing btw different UI's to see how they did something and can't figure it out.For example... did they do everything in the builder or did they have to use notepad/ photoshop etc to make the xml files and the design graphic files then find a way to add them in using UI Builder? Or did it all occur in UI BUilder? Where do they access some of the information I am finding in xml files??</blockquote>I understand where you're coming from. The documentation is very lacking. It's hard enough to find time to make changes to UI Builder, much less write good documentation for it. This is a topic for another thread, but what we really need is a community-driven WIKI for UI Modding along with a full reference of all the widget properties within the UI. This is something I've spoken to the guys at EQ2Interface about but we haven't gotten anything running yet.

Nevynmysti

07-27-2010, 06:04 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nevynmysti wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Beerfan wrote:</cite><blockquote>- better tool for visual designing widows and UI in general. I'm afraid to say this but your default UI Builder plainly sucks :/</blockquote>Aww man! I actually like UI Builder. Make sure you're running the latest version of it. You're right, it was pretty bad 5 years ago but we've made some pretty nice changes to it over the years so that its much more user-friendly now. Yes, it still has its quirks, but I wouldn't use the term "sucks". <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />If you've got some specific suggestions for the tool, please PM them to me. I have an ongoing list of things I'd like to do with UI Builder in our copious amounts of free time!</blockquote>My big thing with it is I can't figure out how to use it.... no forums/ help/ directions to use the tool.... I have tried comparing btw different UI's to see how they did something and can't figure it out.For example... did they do everything in the builder or did they have to use notepad/ photoshop etc to make the xml files and the design graphic files then find a way to add them in using UI Builder? Or did it all occur in UI BUilder? Where do they access some of the information I am finding in xml files??</blockquote>I understand where you're coming from. The documentation is very lacking. It's hard enough to find time to make changes to UI Builder, much less write good documentation for it. This is a topic for another thread, but what we really need is a community-driven WIKI for UI Modding along with a full reference of all the widget properties within the UI. This is something I've spoken to the guys at EQ2Interface about but we haven't gotten anything running yet.</blockquote>Good IDEA!!! Considering I couldn't even find a library book on it lol!

Deson

07-27-2010, 06:20 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Warpax wrote:</cite><blockquote>any plans for the player/target/impliedtarget windows? while you're at it how about adding a focus window and a working /setfocus command</blockquote>Yes, actually. These three windows were the other big ones that we really wanted to hit before GU57 but there just wasn't enough time. We don't want to completely change them, we just want to make the health and power bars more readable and possibly have them show numbers on top of the progress bars.Hopefully this is something we can work in shortly after GU57. We aren't planning on leaving it until GU58.</blockquote>Since that was mentioned, what about the player/group/raid windows? These could very much use a streamlining into a single window or at least one that isn't as redundant, especially since the macro changes.

OmniAzure

07-27-2010, 06:35 PM

I have played with character creation some more and I have to say I really like the alternate apperance toggle being right there in character creation. Really nice <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" />.Edit to add: I really dig the new market place window as well. The preview window built in along with the different catagories to make it easier to find items is nice. Just curious, will an option be added to see all apperance items in one go? I like the catagories, I don't like that I now have to jump back and forth if I want to try on several types of apperance items.

Coho1

07-27-2010, 06:36 PM

Click to cure has made Profit and others mandatory to raid. I can see this screwing Profit up but I will stay optimistic.

Deson

07-27-2010, 06:41 PM

<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>We hear you loud and clear on the clock and that's why these changes go to Test Server first. We're already discussing bringing it back but leaving it off by default for new players. I'm truly surprised at how many people use that window, but that's what feedback is for, right? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>No offense intended but this isn't the first time I've seen you say this on critical matters. Combined with your posts on "advanced" features like click to cure, I'm curious where you are getting your direct feedback from. People you directly interact with that is.</blockquote>It was brought to my attention this post was not read by all as an honest inquiry as intended but as an insult. That was not my intent and I apologize for it. I had no intention for that to be the final form of that post and, due to the forum hiccups, never even knew it posted.The core question could have simply been stated," How do you get your feedback and judge features as advanced or otherwise judge your UI ideas?"

Dethdlr

07-27-2010, 06:42 PM

There is currently a target arrow and an implied target arrow. Could we PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, get a slider added to adjust the implied target arrow opacity?Please?<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

tkia

07-27-2010, 06:45 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I understand where you're coming from. The documentation is very lacking. It's hard enough to find time to make changes to UI Builder, much less write good documentation for it. This is a topic for another thread, but what we really need is a community-driven WIKI for UI Modding along with a full reference of all the widget properties within the UI. This is something I've spoken to the guys at EQ2Interface about but we haven't gotten anything running yet.</blockquote>That would be really great for the long term. However, in the short term could you either:1. rethink the new UI colour scheme to something more neutral? My eyes aren't going to be able to tolerate those angry red tones for very long <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />2. tell us the name of the tag in the xml files that holds the window colour setting so that we can change it for ourselves?

Wilderbeast25

07-27-2010, 07:13 PM

I would really like back:My old XP Bar. The one now is HUGE and I don't have that much space for things as it is. I want to get rid of all that stuff that is now on it.I want my compass back. I don't want it in the mini map. You don't have maps for all zones so the map is useless most of the time and not even eq2maps has all zones.Clock back please!Thanks!Bella

Skeez1e

07-27-2010, 07:28 PM

First impression: I like it, nice and clean. I'm not real fussy about the color scheme but overall- its a great look. The starting a new character screens/icons are a huge improvement - it's like the game finally caught up with the times.

Nakash

07-27-2010, 07:28 PM

Negative Feedback here sorry,Please add an options to switch back the UI to the classic design. Or at least parts of it.Several things are very annoying:- The new EQ2 Menue Bar. -> Really needs an option to be made small , There is no Place to put it an if you try to put it in an right corner (right dosnt funktion corner it auto enlarges ... Hello ???- Seperate EQ2 Menue and xp bars are needed back. give the the new style if you want. But dont leave orginal UI user with that bulky Menue and XP bar.- Make it possible to bring up a seperate Inventory and Role Window. That combo thing is to bulky. cant get my bags and inventory Wndows on the screen at once without resize my bags again to a size where i cant almost see items.-> Make an option to split.- Get youre hands of players existing Key layouts. no big deal but still anoying and totally unneeded. YOu could have created a new default UI where that changes are made and will not interfer long time players.All in all : without making really usefull aditions like click to cure , ui revamp is nice to look, nut more anoying then having any use ( exept having another SC Button). Some people still use the orginal UI cause they dont want the trouble Updating Custom UIs makes. You just blow that.Maybe place SC in the Context Menue like once LoN to annoy us even more.^This is a JOKE . I Hope you get it and don´t see it there soon...

Rothgar

07-27-2010, 07:33 PM

<cite>Enric@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have played with character creation some more and I have to say I really like the alternate apperance toggle being right there in character creation. Really nice <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" />.Edit to add: I really dig the new market place window as well. The preview window built in along with the different catagories to make it easier to find items is nice. Just curious, will an option be added to see all apperance items in one go? I like the catagories, I don't like that I now have to jump back and forth if I want to try on several types of apperance items.</blockquote>Glad you like those changes! As far as the marketplace goes, we've been discussing an advanced search page similar to the broker which would expose more options. This might solve some of your concerns because the search results wouldn't display any categories. I'm just not sure when this will be implemented. If more of you ask for something like this, it would certainly bubble up in our list of priorities.

Rothgar

07-27-2010, 07:38 PM

<cite>Bella@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would really like back:My old XP Bar. The one now is HUGE and I don't have that much space for things as it is. I want to get rid of all that stuff that is now on it.I want my compass back. I don't want it in the mini map. You don't have maps for all zones so the map is useless most of the time and not even eq2maps has all zones.Clock back please!Thanks!Bella</blockquote>The compass never left. Alt-N to display it as long as you haven't remapped your keys.I've just finished putting the clock back into the client locally. So this should make it out to Test the next time we push an update.As far as the XP Bar, that's not as simple as it sounds. We certainly have no problem with people modding the XP Bar and changing it however they wish, but trying to support both old and new models will require some discussion on our end. I can't make any promises on that part.

Bremer

07-27-2010, 07:46 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>GrunEQ wrote:</cite><blockquote>Get rid of the all the clutter on the maintained window and put it back like it was.</blockquote>You can already do this, just right-click and choose "Hide Text".</blockquote>When I do that it looks like this:<img src="http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/8830/leistea.jpg" />

Bremer

07-27-2010, 08:05 PM

And another thing: Potions in my hotbar on Live have a bright background like ready spells. On Test the background for ready potions is dark (like target out of range or something like that) and becomes red after using the potion. This is really irritating and I can see no good reason for this change.

Rothgar

07-27-2010, 08:10 PM

<cite>Bremer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>GrunEQ wrote:</cite><blockquote>Get rid of the all the clutter on the maintained window and put it back like it was.</blockquote>You can already do this, just right-click and choose "Hide Text".</blockquote>When I do that it looks like this:<img src="http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/8830/leistea.jpg" /></blockquote>That's odd. I can't really tell whats going on here because the window is so small. Are you using a custom UI that hasn't been updated? As far as the potions on your hotbar, I just learned of this bug and we are looking into the problem.

tkia

07-27-2010, 08:15 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bremer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>GrunEQ wrote:</cite><blockquote>Get rid of the all the clutter on the maintained window and put it back like it was.</blockquote>You can already do this, just right-click and choose "Hide Text".</blockquote>When I do that it looks like this:<img src="http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/8830/leistea.jpg" /></blockquote>That's odd. I can't really tell whats going on here because the window is so small. Are you using a custom UI that hasn't been updated? </blockquote>Default does it, Rothgar. As far as I can tell it's a bug to do with placement on the right half of the screen. Check the QA bug queue for details.

Neiloch

07-27-2010, 08:18 PM

I'm surprised about the clock too actually lol. Reading this thread thinking "theres a default clock?" My custom exp bar has one jammed in the corner but I hardly look at it. Of course I wear a watch too.

Bremer

07-27-2010, 08:20 PM

<cite>tkia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bremer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>GrunEQ wrote:</cite><blockquote>Get rid of the all the clutter on the maintained window and put it back like it was.</blockquote>You can already do this, just right-click and choose "Hide Text".</blockquote>When I do that it looks like this:<img src="http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/8830/leistea.jpg" /></blockquote>That's odd. I can't really tell whats going on here because the window is so small. Are you using a custom UI that hasn't been updated? </blockquote>Default does it, Rothgar. As far as I can tell it's a bug to do with placement on the right half of the screen. Check the QA bug queue for details.</blockquote>Yes, I have the window at the right edge of the screen. So when I'd move it to the left the order of text and icons would switch and the collapsed window would show the icons, not the cut off text? Interesting <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Deson

07-27-2010, 08:24 PM

Having actually logged in to test now, my complaints are largely cosmetic. I prefered the blue to the red as I find it easier on the eyes and familiar.The window moving in f10 mode is great though, you have to get used to looking for the move icon when you move over parts of a window( some invisible depending on the window and title/frame settings).Also, it'd be great for windows like the level/zone pop-ups so they can be adjusted as well instead of in the small window they normally appear. Hotbars should also be useable in f10 mode as well.The XP/menu bar is fine but I'd like a toggle between advanced and a simple for the xp bar and the eq2 button. The current bar takes up a lot of screen area and I currently use the menu button or hotkeys for everything displayed on it. Its great for newbies but for vets and people looking for something a bit different, there should be some form of optional way to keep it similar to live.Given everything on it, I'd say making the EQ2 button have the advanced/simple option is more comfortable with the xp bar having the ability to dock to various ui elements.

FimisOrbe

07-27-2010, 08:25 PM

Overall I do like the changes.Some stuff I don't like:XP Bar like others mentioned, please remove the EQ2 button from it. make it standalone again.Icon size in Implied Target, playing in 1440x900 the icons are really "pixled" I am still able to see what it is, but it got worse, since its so small now.Targeting is somehow bugged, I am not able to target people/mobs all the time. As example: staying in DLW and looking straight forward to an untamed spirit, not able to click on it. Can post a screenshot if you need one.One addition I would like, make click to cure working with default. I know we can always use custom stuff, but if you add that feature to it, custom UI will almost not needed anymore.

bks6721

07-27-2010, 08:31 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bremer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>GrunEQ wrote:</cite><blockquote>Get rid of the all the clutter on the maintained window and put it back like it was.</blockquote>You can already do this, just right-click and choose "Hide Text".</blockquote>When I do that it looks like this:<img src="http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/8830/leistea.jpg" /></blockquote>That's odd. I can't really tell whats going on here because the window is so small. Are you using a custom UI that hasn't been updated? As far as the potions on your hotbar, I just learned of this bug and we are looking into the problem.</blockquote>on Test server with default UI that is exactly what mine looked like when I tried to Hide Text as well. I /bugged it.

Purr

07-27-2010, 08:38 PM

First impression: I don't like the brownish red - it looks to dark and depressing. It also makes the slider less well visible in all windows that have one. I prefered the old style. At least brighten things like Sliders up a bitXP bar - it resizes nicely but I would really love to have an option to make it vertical, if that's possible.Please please please: A new UI without "Click to Cure" and "Click to Heal"? This is THE ONE feature for which I always want a custom UI. Please implement that, Rothgar. We'll sacrifice you a couple gnomes if that helps. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" />When can we expect a Character Equipment Tab for Tradeskilling and/or PvP?Thanks.

ShadowMunkie

07-27-2010, 08:42 PM

A few suggestions while you guys are reworking the UI.1) Maintained Window: Right Click (Hide Text) + Autorun = Crash2) Tutorial Windows: These things are stuff that need to be put in.2.1) Tutorial about PETS.2.2) Tutorial about COLLECTIONS.2.3) Tutorial about ACHIEVEMENTS. (Not Alternate Achievements.)2.4) Tutorial about MACROS'.2.5) Tutorial about AGGRO/THREAT (In Combat) and HOSTILE MOBS' (Out of combat).PETS: This tutorial needs to explain to those that are able to summon controlable pets about them. (IE: Conjour needs to know that the Earthen Avatar is his tank pet, the Aery Hunter is the Scout, and the Fire Igneous is the mage pet.)COLLECTIONS: This needs to explain about "?" and "!" on the group as well as things like "a seperated page" and such. It could go even further and explain about harvesting.ACHIEVEMENTS: Not really a major issue however, it would be nice to let people know how you can view them atleast.MACROS: People need to learn about them and how to set them up.AGGRO/THREAT: This is the most important because Mages and Scouts need to know how to determine what their Threat/Aggro level is during grouping. It should also let Tanks know about the Aggro/Threat and how to gain it.HOSTILE MOBS: Need to be added to the tutorial because there is currently nothing about this in the tutorial.These are just some of the things that I noticed that wasn't in the tutorial before I crashed from 1.

Dreyco

07-27-2010, 08:45 PM

The hub bar looks great. I love the overall appearance of it. But I think that the experience bar is way too much of the focus. Here's what I'd do...<ul><li>Shrink the experience bar to be a point that goes along the underside of the bar.</li><li>Put a Hotbar on the hub bar, or allow for more than one hotbar depending on its resizing.</li></ul>Just a thought.Otherwise, i'm liking a majority of the changes, with one exception: I'd like the clock menu as a separate piece from the minimap if possible. I don't really use the minimap, but I love the clock <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> .

Looker1010

07-27-2010, 08:52 PM

XP BarThe new XP bar is not for everyone, we understand that. Our UI always lacked some sort of anchor element which resulted in a lot of floating windows. Third-party UI's have created top and bottom anchor bars for awhile now. We decided that we wanted to create an anchor like this for the default UI. The XP bar has been designed to snap to the top or the bottom of the screen, or you can keep it centered in the screen below your hotbars. As with any window, you can always hide this window completely if you don't care to see it. We expect our modding community to come out with all kinds of cool replacements for this bar, anywhere from minimal anchor bars filled with stats to other crazy things we probably aren't thinking of. The nice thing is that they can make use of the snapping functionality thats built into the bar and I can't wait to see what people come up with.I don't place my XP bar on the top or bottom of my screen. My hotbars go on the bottom, with the XP bar above. This new XP bar is screen wide and not re-sizable. It interferes with other items I place to either side of my XP bar. If I click onthe XP bar it goes "on top" and prevents me from clicking on items it covers. i can see them but not access them.You need to make the XP bar re sizable so we can, if desired, make it narrower.

Dreyco

07-27-2010, 09:01 PM

<cite>Looker1010 wrote:</cite><blockquote>XP BarThe new XP bar is not for everyone, we understand that. Our UI always lacked some sort of anchor element which resulted in a lot of floating windows. Third-party UI's have created top and bottom anchor bars for awhile now. We decided that we wanted to create an anchor like this for the default UI. The XP bar has been designed to snap to the top or the bottom of the screen, or you can keep it centered in the screen below your hotbars. As with any window, you can always hide this window completely if you don't care to see it. We expect our modding community to come out with all kinds of cool replacements for this bar, anywhere from minimal anchor bars filled with stats to other crazy things we probably aren't thinking of. The nice thing is that they can make use of the snapping functionality thats built into the bar and I can't wait to see what people come up with.I don't place my XP bar on the top or bottom of my screen. My hotbars go on the bottom, with the XP bar above. This new XP bar is screen wide and not re-sizable. It interferes with other items I place to either side of my XP bar. If I click onthe XP bar it goes "on top" and prevents me from clicking on items it covers. i can see them but not access them.You need to make the XP bar re sizable so we can, if desired, make it narrower.</blockquote>I was able to resize it.. just not vertically. Only horizontally.

Runewind

07-27-2010, 09:37 PM

Being able to shrink the xp bar vertically or detach the exp bar from it or something would be great. Also what I really dislike are the new hotbars. I'm a mouse click player so my entire combat grove is based around knowing exactly where my hotkeys are and how far away from eachother they are. I noticed immediately that the new hotbars have different spacing and the hotkeys are different sized. I don't know why Also I have spinners on all my hotbars but the handle on the right means that my hotkeys are now further apart than they were before. Can we please either:a.) Have an option to use the old UI that is with the old exp bar and hotbars and suchb.) Be able to remove the handle on the right without removing the spinnerOR preferablyc.) both

Cusashorn

07-27-2010, 09:39 PM

Here's my comments on the new UI, as well as one comment about going against the lore of the game for allowing evil classes to start in good cities.All in all, I'd rather have the option to keep my current Default UI set EXACTLY the way I have it set up right now. I'd rather not have to resort to modding my default ui just to get the old XP bar back.I would be happy with the new XP bar if those stupid buttons on both sides were removed completley and the option to shrink the bar horizontally was available though.<img src="http://i26.tinypic.com/znv794.jpg" width="800" height="640" />

Rothgar

07-27-2010, 09:40 PM

<cite>Bremer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>tkia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bremer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>GrunEQ wrote:</cite><blockquote>Get rid of the all the clutter on the maintained window and put it back like it was.</blockquote>You can already do this, just right-click and choose "Hide Text".</blockquote>When I do that it looks like this:<img src="http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/8830/leistea.jpg" /></blockquote>That's odd. I can't really tell whats going on here because the window is so small. Are you using a custom UI that hasn't been updated? </blockquote>Default does it, Rothgar. As far as I can tell it's a bug to do with placement on the right half of the screen. Check the QA bug queue for details.</blockquote>Yes, I have the window at the right edge of the screen. So when I'd move it to the left the order of text and icons would switch and the collapsed window would show the icons, not the cut off text? Interesting <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>We found the bug and it'll be fixed soon.

KerowynnKaotic

07-27-2010, 09:45 PM

my feedback on this would be as follows .. #1 - we need a way to choose the color for the background of the UI!! Make it just like how we choose a color for chat channels or something. #2 - That new Exp bar is just huge! Even shrunk to its smallest setting. I really hate having to depend on someone else to fix UI problems. Can you change it so it shrinks even smaller? Or choose our buttons to show? You're never going to get me into the BGs except by accident and apparently this is how you are willing to do it!And, really since you have the EQ2 menu bar in it & or have short-cut keys .. all the buttons are redundant! The only thing out of the whole bar anyone needs to look at on the screen 'always' is the Exp Bar part!

Looker1010

07-27-2010, 09:58 PM

<cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Looker1010 wrote:</cite><blockquote>XP BarThe new XP bar is not for everyone, we understand that. Our UI always lacked some sort of anchor element which resulted in a lot of floating windows. Third-party UI's have created top and bottom anchor bars for awhile now. We decided that we wanted to create an anchor like this for the default UI. The XP bar has been designed to snap to the top or the bottom of the screen, or you can keep it centered in the screen below your hotbars. As with any window, you can always hide this window completely if you don't care to see it. We expect our modding community to come out with all kinds of cool replacements for this bar, anywhere from minimal anchor bars filled with stats to other crazy things we probably aren't thinking of. The nice thing is that they can make use of the snapping functionality thats built into the bar and I can't wait to see what people come up with.I don't place my XP bar on the top or bottom of my screen. My hotbars go on the bottom, with the XP bar above. This new XP bar is screen wide and not re-sizable. It interferes with other items I place to either side of my XP bar. If I click onthe XP bar it goes "on top" and prevents me from clicking on items it covers. i can see them but not access them.You need to make the XP bar re sizable so we can, if desired, make it narrower.</blockquote>I was able to resize it.. just not vertically. Only horizontally.</blockquote>How odd. I can't get any graphic but the one to move it so I can't resize.

KerowynnKaotic

07-27-2010, 10:09 PM

I don't know if Rothgar can do anything about this but ..In the Marketplace / Housing section .. you have several different individual 'set' sections and you have a 'furniture sets' section. In the 'Furniture sets' .. the Battleworn set is missing and for an individual 'set' section, you're missing the Ebony set.Not to mention that in let's say 5 years from now .. that scroll bar will be getting a real work out with those 'section' icons being 1/2 inch deep & 2 inchs wide. You really should consider shrinking them just a bit more.----Seriously! I wanna know what the standard screen resolution & monitor size is over there in the SOE offices where you think we'd enjoy losing so much space to these UI tweaks you've been doing the last year or so!I have 22" monitors and I swear it feels as though I am losing precious visual space every other update!

Einadin

07-27-2010, 10:10 PM

I'm not sure about all resolutions, but at 1920 x 1200, the default UI has the Voice Bar overlapping the text entry portion of the Chat Box. Please fix this alignment. Thank you.

Neskonlith

07-27-2010, 10:17 PM

<cite>Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Seriously! I wanna know what the standard screen resolution & monitor size is over there in the SOE offices where you think we'd enjoy losing so much space to these UI tweaks you've been doing the last year or so!I have 22" monitors and I swear it feels as though I am losing precious visual space every other update! </blockquote>+1Please allow more "shrinkage" to the UI elements, dip them in the ocean by Halas if you have to!Also: click-to-cure should become a priority standard UI option.

tkia

07-27-2010, 10:20 PM

Since Test was unlocked following the small patch earlier I've been completely unable to get back on. Logged errors are: verifylog.txt (this is the onscreen error): build="SOEBuild=6684T" version="SOEVersionString=2010/7/27 8:23:56" build_type="USER OPTIMIZED" ls_address="none" zone="ZoneScene::onOpen" loc=" 0.00 0.00 0.00" performance="7" verify="E:testeq2gameclientsrcNCS2.cpp(2054): Missing required window: NCS2Archetype 008960ed" alertlog.txt: build="SOEBuild=6684T" version="SOEVersionString=2010/7/27 8:23:56" build_type="USER OPTIMIZED" ls_address="none" zone="ZoneScene::onOpen" loc=" 0.00 0.00 0.00" performance="7" alert="E:testeq2gameclientUIsrcEq2GuiModule.cpp(516): Eq2GuiModule::createWindow(): failed to manufacture window NCS2Archetype" This is using the same default UI settings that I was testing on earlier this morning and the errors persist after sitting through a full file scan. I think I'll just take the hint and go to bed <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Runewind

07-27-2010, 10:35 PM

<cite>Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>my feedback on this would be as follows .. #1 - we need a way to choose the color for the background of the UI!! Make it just like how we choose a color for chat channels or something. #2 - That new Exp bar is just huge! Even shrunk to its smallest setting. I really hate having to depend on someone else to fix UI problems. Can you change it so it shrinks even smaller? Or choose our buttons to show? You're never going to get me into the BGs except by accident and apparently this is how you are willing to do it!And, really since you have the EQ2 menu bar in it & or have short-cut keys .. all the buttons are redundant! The only thing out of the whole bar anyone needs to look at on the screen 'always' is the Exp Bar part!</blockquote>This reminds me of another complaint. This one is kind of cosmetic but it's still annoying. The only way to get to the zone reuse window seems to be through the battlegrounds button. Can you please call this "Zone Reuse" or at least "Battlegrounds/Zone Reuse" and have it default to the Zone Reuse window?

Deson

07-27-2010, 10:37 PM

<cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite><blockquote>Also: click-to-cure should become a priority standard UI option.</blockquote>To add to this, click to cure is very intuitive. It's so intuitive that before I even knew about click to cure ui's, I'd gravitate toward trying to do it. Since launch, it's looked like something that just should be.

Rothgar

07-27-2010, 10:40 PM

<cite>Looker1010 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Looker1010 wrote:</cite><blockquote>XP BarThe new XP bar is not for everyone, we understand that. Our UI always lacked some sort of anchor element which resulted in a lot of floating windows. Third-party UI's have created top and bottom anchor bars for awhile now. We decided that we wanted to create an anchor like this for the default UI. The XP bar has been designed to snap to the top or the bottom of the screen, or you can keep it centered in the screen below your hotbars. As with any window, you can always hide this window completely if you don't care to see it. We expect our modding community to come out with all kinds of cool replacements for this bar, anywhere from minimal anchor bars filled with stats to other crazy things we probably aren't thinking of. The nice thing is that they can make use of the snapping functionality thats built into the bar and I can't wait to see what people come up with.I don't place my XP bar on the top or bottom of my screen. My hotbars go on the bottom, with the XP bar above. This new XP bar is screen wide and not re-sizable. It interferes with other items I place to either side of my XP bar. If I click onthe XP bar it goes "on top" and prevents me from clicking on items it covers. i can see them but not access them.You need to make the XP bar re sizable so we can, if desired, make it narrower.</blockquote>I was able to resize it.. just not vertically. Only horizontally.</blockquote>How odd. I can't get any graphic but the one to move it so I can't resize.</blockquote>Do you currently have it snapped to the top or bottom? If so, just drag it towards the middle of the screen to unsnap it. Then you can resize it.

Armawk

07-27-2010, 10:41 PM

Lots ot say later but I will play around more first.. broadly i have few issues with it myself..One comment I feel strongly about. The new tutorial stuff is a good idea (though its going to kill a lot of noobs when a unannounced half screen window covers up their first ongoing fight) as we all know tutorials were badly missing. However the flat brown windows for the tutorial screens are simply not up to EQ2 art standards, and look like something from 10+ years ago. They also look like nothing else in the game at all, and just make the whole thing look amateurish to the very people you need to impress. Making them look like a simpler version of the framing on the welcome to eq2 window would both make sense and not be hard.

Rothgar

07-27-2010, 10:47 PM

<cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Seriously! I wanna know what the standard screen resolution & monitor size is over there in the SOE offices where you think we'd enjoy losing so much space to these UI tweaks you've been doing the last year or so!I have 22" monitors and I swear it feels as though I am losing precious visual space every other update! </blockquote>+1Please allow more "shrinkage" to the UI elements, dip them in the ocean by Halas if you have to!Also: click-to-cure should become a priority standard UI option.</blockquote>Other than the XP Bar, what else needs to be able to shrink?Of all the windows that we show by default, they are all resizable except the Player window. Can I ask what resolution you're playing on? We've pretty much optimized for 1280x1024. So if you're lower than that, it will probably look pretty crowded.

ShadowMunkie

07-27-2010, 10:59 PM

One thing I'd like to see back is PUT Crouch back on the C key, change the "Character Window: to the "Profile Window", both mean the same but one allows you to use P instead of C. Also there are tons of typo's in the tutorials. Just do a brief overlook and I found like 8 typo's. Most consisting of just a simple ";" in it.

Dreyco

07-27-2010, 11:10 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here's my comments on the new UI, as well as one comment about going against the lore of the game for allowing evil classes to start in good cities.All in all, I'd rather have the option to keep my current Default UI set EXACTLY the way I have it set up right now. I'd rather not have to resort to modding my default ui just to get the old XP bar back.I would be happy with the new XP bar if those stupid buttons on both sides were removed completley and the option to shrink the bar horizontally was available though.<img src="http://i26.tinypic.com/znv794.jpg" width="800" height="640" /></blockquote>The reason the character window's level and class appear off is because you don't have a tradeskill class. It shows the tradeskill class in that spot.

kcirrot

07-27-2010, 11:17 PM

<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite><blockquote>Also: click-to-cure should become a priority standard UI option.</blockquote>To add to this, click to cure is very intuitive. It's so intuitive that before I even knew about click to cure ui's, I'd gravitate toward trying to do it. Since launch, it's looked like something that just should be.</blockquote>How does that work? I've never used Profit.For the devs:I'm not super picky about the UI, but I like the new one quite a bit. I'm looking forward to it going live. I'll still probably use EQ2maps unless you've added maps for dungeons (was testing on the Extended server with a new character).

Finora

07-27-2010, 11:38 PM

I rather like the new character window. It's got everything right there, easy to find etc etc. Looks good.The hotbars look much better than the old ones. Kudos on that. I don't think I'll have to rebuild my hotbar mod now.I LOVE LOVE LOVE the f10 moving layout mode. LOVE it. Best thing IMO from the whole update.The red color of the buttons, tabs, headings and sliders made my eyes hurt. Don't get me wrong, I really like the color red, particularly nice deep jewel tone reds, it just doesn't seem to work well in an interface that I have to stare at the whole time I play. When you posted you guys had wanted to go with a more natural color I'd fully expected a brownish sort of color like we had some years back before the purply one we have on live now. Red is not a good color for some people to stare at for long. I ended up having to log. Just couldn't look at it. I didn't even stay on long enough to try to craft with that color, but I'm sure it wouldn't have lasted long.The experience bar... so so so so huge. Too big. Even shrunken down it's too big, particularly with the next to useless to anyone who doesn't play LOTRO or WoW button banks on the sides. Options to remove those buttonbanks and to make the xp bar narrower as well as shorter would be greatly appreciated.Casting/breath bars are far far too large.Dots for POIs on the default map are still far too gigantic. They look to be nearly the size of an actual thumbtack, far too large for such a small map.

KerowynnKaotic

07-27-2010, 11:48 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>*snipped* Other than the XP Bar, what else needs to be able to shrink?Of all the windows that we show by default, they are all resizable except the Player window. Can I ask what resolution you're playing on? We've pretty much optimized for 1280x1024. So if you're lower than that, it will probably look pretty crowded.</blockquote>Well the Journal is only able to shrink sideways or even down to a certain point. Don't think we've ever been able to shrink the AA or Options window, which would be nice to adjust.The new Character screen (which I will forever call Persona .. as I think that would have made as much sense and wouldn't have required changing crouch!) can't be adjusted very well .. it can be moved but the 1st tab looks down right stupid if you try to adjust the sides/length.But, it's not so much the whether we can shrink them down, though it is a saving point for the most part, it's the fact that nearly every new UI thing to come out is this HUGE mofo of a window that practically everyone has to sit there and scale down for their comfort. From a pyschologocial stand point, it would probably be better to have all new UI pieces default to their smallest setting instead of their middle or largest point.Now the screen size .. well truthfully, I'm not 100% sure. I mean I know my computer monitor says it's at 1680 x 1050 and I know in-game it tells me that my Full Screen view would be 1280 X 1024, as well, but as I'm always in the windowed version .. *shrug* .. I'm not sure which or if either it's going with.

Anestacia

07-28-2010, 12:36 AM

Overall, I feel positive about these changes. Its a nice clean look in most places. Some Feedback from me is as followed:1) Give the mini map a border at the very least. As it is now it looks really out of place. I'd actually like to see a circular mini map but thats just me.2) I know it was adressed but time alloted to adding the autoattack bar and Click-to-Cure would make this update completly worth it. I personally have always prefered the default UI and the ONLY reason i downloaded porfit was for those 2 features alone. Please reconsider making time to add these in asap.3) The coloring of the windows. I despise red while others love it. A few very generic color choices would be very welcomed. /Begs for Blue.These things would make it just about perfect. Overall it looks very nice though.

isest

07-28-2010, 01:17 AM

Well i fyou have eq2 maps installed it overrides the new map. So you loose your compass and you clock. So Please please give us an option to make those seperate.Also please fix the eq2 bar now as I call it to go down the side like it used to, it is plain ugly now. or give us the ability to togle it to clasic. Oh and the station cash button I don't need that either I knew were to find it.I understand you guys are preping us to go free to play but really folks can find the station cash without it having to be so blaintant.I like the new character screen please put it back to P and fix the button for c back to crouch.Also I dont need my maintained spells to tell me what they are you should be able to hover over then and see it takes a lot of room on the screen now.Im about 70% hate it 30 % love it. Make those changes and I think I can live i with it.

KerowynnKaotic

07-28-2010, 01:37 AM

<cite>isest wrote:</cite><blockquote>*snipped* Also I dont need my maintained spells to tell me what they are you should be able to hover over then and see it takes a lot of room on the screen now.</blockquote>Right click on the Maintained spells window and you'll get an option to remove text ... Thank you, Rothgar! --------------------------------But, I'd also like the option to also shrink the casting bar, I'm used to really thin one and this thick one with the name of what I'm casting is clunky. I know what I'm casting, whether or not I know the name of the spell, lol!At first I didn't even notice it cause it got stuck behind my hotkey bars .. I had to find it and drag it out, now that I found it, I want to hide it again. o.O. The horrid yellow color doesn't help, really. It so clashes with the rest of the color scheme.

Finora

07-28-2010, 01:56 AM

I completely forgot to mention the clock in my earlier post. I liked the old seperate clock. I don't use the minimap, don't plan on ever using the minimap. It serves no purpose for me and takes up too much space on my small screen.Have it off by default or whatever you wish, but please please give us the option of a seperate clock.

Neskonlith

07-28-2010, 02:04 AM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Other than the XP Bar, what else needs to be able to shrink?Of all the windows that we show by default, they are all resizable except the Player window. Can I ask what resolution you're playing on? We've pretty much optimized for 1280x1024. So if you're lower than that, it will probably look pretty crowded.</blockquote>Here are some screenies of what I'm referring to:<img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/newuitweaks01medium.jpg" />The boxes might be resizable, but the icons inside are not without a mod - and if an option in standard exists, the UI won't break each time UI updates occurs:<img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/EQ2_001018Medium-1.jpg" />My preference is to have very dense clusters of key information available because I play in pvp - currently I have most elements condensed except for a few items that no option has been located for.<img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/EQ2_001026Medium-1.jpg" />My UI setup would not benefit as much from the new anchor, it has too many pieces I would rather keep buried.

Flump

07-28-2010, 02:30 AM

Don't have time to read everything now so sorry if its mentioned earlier but this concerns me in the patch notes<li>If a new spell is a newer version of an old spell on your hotbar it will replace the older version rather than adding a new button on your hotbar.</li>Can this be optional? I usually won't replace a master with an apprentice from the next tier

Cyliena

07-28-2010, 02:54 AM

A lot of my thoughts have been already stated but I'll admit I haven't read the whole thread, so I may be repeating some here. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />1. The experience bar is terrible. Give us an option to toggle it between the new overloaded style and the classic style.2. What happened to the experience bars in the persona (character, whatever) window? Maybe I'm just missing something but they sure seemed to be absent.3. The minimap doesn't seem to shrink down as far as it used to.4. The clock is much better as a stand-alone. It was small and did not cause "clutter" before, and it won't be "clutter" it you put it back to how it was.5. The combined inventory/persona window isn't too bad, very reminescent of EQ1. My only issue is that it now covers where I normally have my inventory bags open up at! <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />6. Having the names for the maintained buff window is nice, but wouldn't that have made more sense for the spell effects window? That way you could see everything that's on you, not just what you're doing. Either way, I'm okay with that one, it was also a feature I liked from modded EQ1 UI pieces.That's all I can think of at the moment. I was always so happy with how much I enjoyed the default UI in this game (compared to hating it in eq1) so seeing some of these changes makes me really sad. Most of these things I can deal with, except that experience bar--that alone will make me finally start using a custom UI if it stays how it is. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Cusashorn

07-28-2010, 02:57 AM

<cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote>The reason the character window's level and class appear off is because you don't have a tradeskill class. It shows the tradeskill class in that spot.</blockquote>The hell does that have anything to do with anything?

Wullail

07-28-2010, 03:36 AM

I still say we need a 'Procs' window where gear procs appear so we can concentrate on whats happening inside the Self/Group Buff and Spell Cast Window without the important things (Ward timers/HP Left etc) being pushed off the end by the proc icons.

Eezel

07-28-2010, 04:27 AM

Having logged onto test I'm just simply at a loss of words. Ugly is about the only thing I can come up with. Its the thing that has kept me from most other MMO's and now its been crammed down my throat here. I doubt I'll stick around after 6 years I'm not happy and not gonna waste hard earned cash to continue playing.ProfitUI is completly broken. Maintained Window which already did exactly what SoE just added in becomes useless because its not compatable. We get 3 bottom bars loaded up all over because something is calling the custom file a couple times instead of once or its ignoring it all together. The XP bar is gross down right to the point I wanted to log out and not even look at the rest.Sorry Roth but you missed the mark on this by far.

Kain-UK

07-28-2010, 05:42 AM

Just got into test copy... feedback thus far...I like the new casting bars. I also like the new hotbar look. I think you guys have done very well on this. However, I think changing everything to red was very unecessary. I'd have preffered EQ2 to keep it's familiar blue, though I may be the only one to pick on something so minor.The XP bar is horrific! For one, I don't need guild, battlegrounds (which I dont play), LFG (that no-one ever uses), Community and Map on one side. The stuff on the other side? Yeah, I don't need that either. I'm also not happy about the fact the SC button is almost bigger than the EQ2 button. The OLD EQ2 button is still present on my UI, I've noticed. I'd rather keep that in complete honesty.The actual style for the new XP bar is nice... I like the marbled effect and it just seems... well... clearer. But I do not need or want all that crap added to the left and right side of it. An option to turn it off and have an "old style" XP bar so I don't have to see an SC button staring me in the face would be welcome. Yes, I understand that's probably there for your new EQ2X product, but don't screw over those of us who still pay for this game by FORCING it on us.Thanks.

Raven

07-28-2010, 05:50 AM

I just looked at the new UI on test and all I can say is EWWWW!The red for everything is horrible. It's nasty and painful and just plain icky. Give us back the blue please.The new exp bar with the buttons stuck to it is the worst idea ever!It's too big, it's too clunky, it's totally unecessary and it's completely non-customisable - I personally liked being able to have bars that run vertical rather than horizontal and this messy thing doesn't fit in with any of it.As for all those buttons, I can only ask, WHY?But the worst bit of all is the oversized SC button on it - we pay to play the game already, so we don't need that in our face trying to beg for extra money from us. Totally tacky!

TigTiger

07-28-2010, 06:31 AM

<cite>Eezel wrote:</cite><blockquote>Having logged onto test I'm just simply at a loss of words. Ugly is about the only thing I can come up with. Its the thing that has kept me from most other MMO's and now its been crammed down my throat here. I doubt I'll stick around after 6 years I'm not happy and not gonna waste hard earned cash to continue playing.ProfitUI is completly broken. Maintained Window which already did exactly what SoE just added in becomes useless because its not compatable. We get 3 bottom bars loaded up all over because something is calling the custom file a couple times instead of once or its ignoring it all together. The XP bar is gross down right to the point I wanted to log out and not even look at the rest.Sorry Roth but you missed the mark on this by far.</blockquote>Sorry...Profit UI being broken now is Rothgar and the devs fault HOW exactly? LOL.BTW you post alot for someone who's quitting the game. [Removed for Content]

Kamimura

07-28-2010, 06:36 AM

There's just no other way to say this, so... The new UI is absolutely hideous. Almost beyond words. Many people have already gone over the problems with it, so in brief - the exp bar is way to huge, and much too clunky. The buttons on the sides are not necessary. The window does not shrink both ways. The new hotkey bars I could take or leave, but they too feel more chunky than necessary. The red is not a good color choice, it's not easy on the eyes and it really clashes with the rest of the colors on the UI. The casting bar is too big, too clunky. The combined persona and inventory, again, clunky. (And messing with my key map? Bad!) The mini map and clock combo is a bad one - I have never used the mini map, but I do like the clock. I should not have to have the mini map up to get the clock. One of the things I loved about the default UI was that it was fairly sleek and clean. I shouldn't have to use mods to keep it that way. If you really insist on going on with this change, please allow us to select the classic UI if we wish.

Bremer

07-28-2010, 07:57 AM

What I think would be a great addition to the UI (besides the already mentioned % numbers for target/implied/player and total numbers for player): Add a mini hotbar (~4 slots, that can be expanded/collapsed via right click menu) to every group member in the group window, where you can drag and drop spells or macros and that are then automatically applied to the corresponding group member. So that you can eg have for every group member a macro, that applies two single target buffs on them or cast a heal or similar, without having to target them.

isest

07-28-2010, 08:35 AM

snipped 'please allow us to select the classic UI if we wish" this orAnd also hey let us choose the background color of the UI, as that red/brown for those of us who are color blind is a problem. Or just give is back the blue it is easier on they eyes.and shring the xp bar and undock the crud from the ends of the xp bar.Also maintained spells the hide text only works if you draig it to the left of the screen, I like mine in a different spot so until the hide text works in any place you have it on screen its broken. There are other posted examples.

Solzak

07-28-2010, 09:30 AM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>The Persona and Inventory windows have been combined into a new "Character" window. This will make it easier to swap gear while viewing your stats. The overall size of the new window is not much bigger than the old windows. We remapped Crouch so we could use "C" for this window since it just makes sense. We removed the default keybindings of "I" and "P" just to clean things up. So if you want to continue using those keys, you'll have to remap them yourself.</blockquote>Sheesh. People already use I for inventory, and P for Personna. Crouch being 'C' not only fits nicely, but its near the WASD cluster, so that people can hit it fast for those fights when it is needed (fear while running really sucks). NOT reusing I or P for the new window is kinda dumb. Usurping a semi-important key like 'C' is just plain nonsense. Not sure if I'd be surprised if you mapped Crouch to 'D' for 'Duck', and put the right turn key elsewhere. Please don't let people with no common sense design UI's? Its just painful all around.<blockquote>Mini-Map / Compass / ClockThe mini-map now has a clock built in and indicators for your compass directions. Our goal was to minimize some clutter by removing the floating compass and clock windows. If you like your mini-map plain, you can hide the new clock elements by adjusting the frame and titlebar opacity. We left the compass in the game for those of you that want it but don't want to keep your minimap up. However, we did remove the clock window permanently.</blockquote>Let's be honest here. The disappearing clock and the "huge ugly SC button" are human engineering on a slightly contemptible scale. If you cant see the time, you might play longer. If the SC button is always there, it's always tempting you to fork over more RL cash to SoE. Notice that while the clock is now under consideration for return, the "huge ugly button" hasn't even been mentioned. And won't be. Did you find a way to make sure third-party UI's can't get rid of it? Because they will. And I will cheer them on.

Rick777

07-28-2010, 09:31 AM

I'm reading and seeing pictures of some of the changes and I'm just wondering...why? With all due respect, and honestly asking the question here. Most of these changes seem like they were not really needed, just tiny little cosmetic changes for the vast majority of them. I'm digging the concept of the way F10 works now, but besides that I don't see anything that really makes any kind of difference whatsoever to my gameplay.So still asking respectfully, why wouldn't you guys spend your time on true UI updates? Things like click to cure have been thrown at you multiple times just in this thread alone and it's painfully obvious you are ignoring commenting on that. How about things like beefing up categories in the market broker? I can't look up stuff based on crit bonus for example. It's great beefing up SC and putting a big fat button so we all know where we can send SOE money, but the market broker needs a serious overhaul. How about something as simple as just giving us more hotbars?With all due respect, it just really makes me wonder seeing Rothgar on here totally excited about what he's been working on in the recent past, but seeing as how in all honesty it will impact and improve our gameplay almost zero, all the while ignoring obvious UI elements your customers have been screaming for constantly. Sorry to come off as frustrated a bit, I'm just a firm believer that we shouldn't be required to use a 3rd party add on for the UI to work. You did a GREAT job with the cure macros, now just take it one step further.

Solzak

07-28-2010, 09:37 AM

The new Character window? Ugh. Its HUGE. Not a bad concept, until you open your bank. 12 bank slots, 8 shared, 6 more for inventory, bank window AND character window on the screen at the same time? I think I need a 37" screen!!! It certainly doesn't fit on my 'little' 20" widescreen!!! Sheesh...

Ahlana

07-28-2010, 10:34 AM

Please do like EQ1 did when they did such a large overhaul of the UI and Create a Default_Old alongside the Default for usage...I do not like the new UI.. it is ugly.. it has unnessecarily large items on it ([Removed for Content] is with that freaking XP bar). So please allow us the ability to use the old UI, it has all the same items just "different" and better/cleaner looking. There is no reason to scrap the old UI to the point that we can not use it if we choose to.

Morrias

07-28-2010, 10:51 AM

Alright now that I have actually gotten to play around with the new UI..Great job on the casting bar..The new hotbars look good except the big grab handle could have been smaller..I still want my clock back! (Im still not using the minimap)The red looks very bad in my opinion, infact I kinda find it hard to read on some windows, a good example of that is the Achievement window.The new tutorial windows will be very nice for new players but there is a way to turn them off right?The Character window should have stayed the Persona window and still bound to "P" (or "I" just get it off "C" please)The new XP bar just is not as good as the old one.. I dont like buttons attatched to it, the huge ugly station cash button shoulda stayed in the start menu anyways.. overall its just too big and bulky..Old UI > New UI overall atm.. it just looked better, less bulky and it was more customizable.. (and no giant ugly SC button in the corner)In the end though, no click to cure / auto swing bar = worthless UI. :s

Styrkarr

07-28-2010, 11:14 AM

Gonna sound like a fanboy here because I just posted in another thread about how much I loved the new spell animations, but I gotta be honest: I'm really diggin' the new UI as well!<ul><li>The new Tutorial windows are outstanding. Well done! Though one of the first windows to pop up in there needs to be "How to Turn the Tutorial Off" <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></li><li>The rounded corners on the quickbars were a great idea. A simple change, but it really does make the overall UI look much more professional. Much richer. Smooth curves. It just kinda flows better, I dunno.</li><li>New spinners are better, and I really like the embossed and thicker edge at the end of the quickbars. I nice fat anchor I can grab onto when I wanna move the thing. The new spinner and that embossed endpiece really bookend the quickbars nicely. I'll be leavin' those on from now on I think.</li><li>Don't miss the clock. Could care less.</li><li>The new casting bar looks great! Couldn't have designed a better one myself. Again; simple but a nice fat clean bar.</li><li>The Inventory/Character screen is awesome, but nothing new for me (I use a UI mod that does almost exactly the same thing), so nicely done there. That fact that it's a bigger window didn't bother me for long with my custom UI. The payoff for "at-a-glance" stats right by your gear more than makes up for it. Plus it take like three days and you're used to the size.</li><li>And finally I think the new XP bar is excellent. I'm usually trying to place elements like that at the bottom of the screen, and morphing it with a bunch of the more commonly used menu buttons was an excellent idea. It works. I didn't play with it enough, but is there a way to show an XP bar and an AA bar simultaneously? I'll have to take a look tonight. If not, that's be my only complaint. Note that I run at 1920x1600 so maybe that's why the XP bar didn't seem so big to me.</li><li>The red color is fine by me. Matches the EQ2 logo.</li></ul>

kalaria

07-28-2010, 11:25 AM

This new UI is absolutely horrid.And basically will break all custom UIs on top of it, which many people use for the great added functionality (such as click to cures and others). It is completely illogical that all this time has been spent "updating" the default UI, and the MAIN reasons custom UIs are used (click to cures etc) wasn't even included. Sorry, but it seems like a complete waste of time and now you will have tons of players with broken UIs losing the functionality of the UIs they liked, and being forced to use this ugly, and not very functional at all.Just my opinion.

Cynith

07-28-2010, 11:30 AM

I've always just used the default UI . . .for the first time ever I'm considering looking for a mod to replace it . . . I do NOT like that exp bar with all the buttons on it . . . the EQII button works just fine for me. The rest of everything else is very similar and familiar but I will be remapping those keys sadly.Please tell me there is a way to just use the original UI exp bar? when all those same things are available on the EQII button they are completely redundant and unnecessary and are taking up QUITE a bit of real estate on my screen. ughI'm a minimalist on my screen - I just want my EQII button for access to all the options - and a very small exp bar that I can use to quickly change from exp enabled/disabled without it covering such a large chunk of my visual. even at it's smallest all I see are those buttons . . . and more buttons - I do not want them and do not need them.

Barx

07-28-2010, 11:36 AM

<cite>Solzak@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>The Persona and Inventory windows have been combined into a new "Character" window. This will make it easier to swap gear while viewing your stats. The overall size of the new window is not much bigger than the old windows. We remapped Crouch so we could use "C" for this window since it just makes sense. We removed the default keybindings of "I" and "P" just to clean things up. So if you want to continue using those keys, you'll have to remap them yourself.</blockquote>Sheesh. People already use I for inventory, and P for Personna. Crouch being 'C' not only fits nicely, but its near the WASD cluster, so that people can hit it fast for those fights when it is needed (fear while running really sucks). NOT reusing I or P for the new window is kinda dumb. Usurping a semi-important key like 'C' is just plain nonsense. Not sure if I'd be surprised if you mapped Crouch to 'D' for 'Duck', and put the right turn key elsewhere. Please don't let people with no common sense design UI's? Its just painful all around.<blockquote>Mini-Map / Compass / ClockThe mini-map now has a clock built in and indicators for your compass directions. Our goal was to minimize some clutter by removing the floating compass and clock windows. If you like your mini-map plain, you can hide the new clock elements by adjusting the frame and titlebar opacity. We left the compass in the game for those of you that want it but don't want to keep your minimap up. However, we did remove the clock window permanently.</blockquote>Let's be honest here. The disappearing clock and the "huge ugly SC button" are human engineering on a slightly contemptible scale. If you cant see the time, you might play longer. If the SC button is always there, it's always tempting you to fork over more RL cash to SoE. Notice that while the clock is now under consideration for return, the "huge ugly button" hasn't even been mentioned. And won't be. Did you find a way to make sure third-party UI's can't get rid of it? Because they will. And I will cheer them on.</blockquote>People actually use crouch in EQ2? While I agree that remapping it for existing players is annoying (instead of just making it the new default for new players), it's not like we're losing a lot in having crouch moved elsewhere.As for the clock, they were taking it out because it was merged into the map window, not so that you couldn't see what time it was. And from what I've seen the big SC button can be removed without any issues in custom UIs.

Novusod

07-28-2010, 11:37 AM

I don't really like that clunky XP bar with buttons on it. Please allow us to shrink it to very tiny size so it is not in the way.

Deson

07-28-2010, 11:50 AM

<cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>People actually use crouch in EQ2? While I agree that remapping it for existing players is annoying (instead of just making it the new default for new players), it's not like we're losing a lot in having crouch moved elsewhere.As for the clock, they were taking it out because it was merged into the map window, not so that you couldn't see what time it was. And from what I've seen the big SC button can be removed without any issues in custom UIs.</blockquote>Crouch is used often when dealing with fearing mobs.As far as the SC button, why should you have to get a custom UI to not be effectively bombarded with an ad?

Barx

07-28-2010, 11:55 AM

<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>People actually use crouch in EQ2? While I agree that remapping it for existing players is annoying (instead of just making it the new default for new players), it's not like we're losing a lot in having crouch moved elsewhere.As for the clock, they were taking it out because it was merged into the map window, not so that you couldn't see what time it was. And from what I've seen the big SC button can be removed without any issues in custom UIs.</blockquote>Crouch is used often when dealing with fearing mobs.As far as the SC button, why should you have to get a custom UI to not be effectively bombarded with an ad?</blockquote>True, the rare fear mob is a reason to use crouch. The new SC button I see being much more relevant for the F2P EQ2, I agree that it does not need to be there on regular server and was just confirming that it appears to be removable rather than hardcoded.The whole idea of turning the XP bar into a giant bottom-covering thing with buttons is a bad idea in my opinion. It's way too big and wastes way too much space (do you really need an XP bar almost full screen width? I guess it might make you feel like XP is going up faster?). They should have worked on the start button and making that more useful / intuitive than cluttering up the XP bar.

Deson

07-28-2010, 11:59 AM

<cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>People actually use crouch in EQ2? While I agree that remapping it for existing players is annoying (instead of just making it the new default for new players), it's not like we're losing a lot in having crouch moved elsewhere.As for the clock, they were taking it out because it was merged into the map window, not so that you couldn't see what time it was. And from what I've seen the big SC button can be removed without any issues in custom UIs.</blockquote>Crouch is used often when dealing with fearing mobs.As far as the SC button, why should you have to get a custom UI to not be effectively bombarded with an ad?</blockquote>True, the rare fear mob is a reason to use crouch. The new SC button I see being much more relevant for the F2P EQ2, I agree that it does not need to be there on regular server and was just confirming that it appears to be removable rather than hardcoded.The whole idea of turning the XP bar into a giant bottom-covering thing with buttons is a bad idea in my opinion. It's way too big and wastes way too much space (do you really need an XP bar almost full screen width? I guess it might make you feel like XP is going up faster?). They should have worked on the start button and making that more useful / intuitive than cluttering up the XP bar.</blockquote>While as a current player I don't like it, I don't see how it's a bad idea. It's essentially the xp bar and most used menu icons laid out in an easy, accessible way.I can see it being very useful and even desired by newer players.

Barx

07-28-2010, 12:06 PM

<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote>While as a current player I don't like it, I don't see how it's a bad idea. It's essentially the xp bar and most used menu icons laid out in an easy, accessible way.I can see it being very useful and even desired by newer players.</blockquote>Yeah, I think that's what they were going for -- ease of use for new players. But they have to do it in a way that the existing players that use the default aren't super turned off. One possibility is an advanced (right-click) option to turn it into a smaller, button-free version. Then you give the new players a bit bar with shiny buttons and existing players a way to use the bar without having to either mod it or totally rearrange their UI setup and waste screen space.

Claraness

07-28-2010, 12:16 PM

I would like the ability to move players around within the group. Having the tank on F5 or F6 is always a pain when healing. Placing the tank to be always positioned on F2 would be wonderful.

Finora

07-28-2010, 12:18 PM

Couple more comments (mostly for the players who aren't happy with some of the changes).If you go into the default UI folder on live, you can copy the eq2ui_mainhud_experience.xml file and use it to create a custom UI. It works just fine still.I think we should have a choice of XP bars, like we have a choice between that awful gaudy 'simple' con system and the more simplistic 'detailed' system.Also, for those who use C for something else (I know I do) you can remap C back to whatever you were using it as and use P for the persona same as always.

Deson

07-28-2010, 12:24 PM

<cite>Claraness wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would like the ability to move players around within the group. Having the tank on F5 or F6 is always a pain when healing. Placing the tank to be always positioned on F2 would be wonderful.</blockquote>For that matter it'd make it easier to do macros as you could just set them up by groupmate number once and never really change it.

Deson

07-28-2010, 12:40 PM

Ha!<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=458063" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=458063</a><cite>tkia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote> For example, I'd like to see a new mini-map window that also combines the compass and time of day widgets. I think we can come up with something that's more pleasing than the window we have now.</blockquote>Please, no. I have no use for the mini-map at all but certainly don't want to lose my clock and compass when I turn it off. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>I was looking through an old feedback thread to compare what was suggested to what's currently on test( a fair amount) and couldn't resist when I saw it.

Cyliena

07-28-2010, 12:43 PM

<cite>Torgaard@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><ul><li>And finally I think the new XP bar is excellent. I'm usually trying to place elements like that at the bottom of the screen, and morphing it with a bunch of the more commonly used menu buttons was an excellent idea. It works. I didn't play with it enough, but is there a way to show an XP bar and an AA bar simultaneously? I'll have to take a look tonight. If not, that's be my only complaint. Note that I run at 1920x1600 so maybe that's why the XP bar didn't seem so big to me.</li></ul></blockquote>Did someone pay you to say that? I swear you're the only person who's stated that they actually like the exp bar.--I forgot earlier to comment on the red color. I don't find it way too bad, but I agree with many others that the blue looks so much better. When the forums changed to that red theme, the first thing I did was switch back to the blue TSO theme. Blue is generally friendlier on eyes than red!

Chunkaliscious

07-28-2010, 01:04 PM

I like most of the changes to the UI except for the awful red color. Please give us an option or options to switch it to a better color at least back to the blue.I really think you need to put the way the ability to adjust your characters features during creation back on the first page like it used to be instead of near the end of the process. IMO most people want to get their character looking the way they want it to look first or at least play with several looks before getting into the rest of the creation process.The new XP bar is ok. I wish there was a way to crop off the ends and move those as seperate elements but I can live with it shrunk to a spot in the top or bottom corner of my screen.I am really surprised, like others, that click-to-cure and an auto-attack bar were not added.

Styrkarr

07-28-2010, 01:06 PM

<cite>Cyliena@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Torgaard@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><ul><li>And finally I think the new XP bar is excellent. I'm usually trying to place elements like that at the bottom of the screen, and morphing it with a bunch of the more commonly used menu buttons was an excellent idea. It works. I didn't play with it enough, but is there a way to show an XP bar and an AA bar simultaneously? I'll have to take a look tonight. If not, that's be my only complaint. Note that I run at 1920x1600 so maybe that's why the XP bar didn't seem so big to me.</li></ul></blockquote>Did someone pay you to say that? I swear you're the only person who's stated that they actually like the exp bar.</blockquote>heh, ya I've noticed. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/499fd50bc713bfcdf2ab5a23c00c2d62.gif" border="0" />I genuinely do like that XP bar. I don't wanna take it out to a nice dinner and try to get in its pants later that night or anything, but I like it. I guess it's not so much the bar, as it is the commonly used menu buttons merged into it. I thought that was pretty handy.

Dethdlr

07-28-2010, 02:08 PM

I logged in and played a character up to level 5 last night to see how the interface played as a new character.I was impressed with how smooth the streaming client is working these days. Haven't tried it in quite a while.Most of what I saw, I liked. I won't bother re-hashing what's already been said, but instead point out something that really irritates me every so often and then goes away. The epilepsy warning.Please add an OK button to the Epilepsy Warning Screen.When a screen pops up with no buttons to click on, that usually means: Wait. It's doing something and once it's done, the screen will change. That's not the case here. There's no buttons to click on but it's waiting for you to click the window. There is no indication though that it's waiting on you. I'm waiting on it and it's waiting on me. We had a standoff and eventually I decided to click the window. I think that window only pops up the first time you run the game after installing it so usually I forget to mention it. I finally remembered it this time.Overall, I think this will make for a much better experience for new users.

Arieneth

07-28-2010, 02:12 PM

So I checked out the new UI in test and it was better than I expected. Except the new xp bar. The one thing I always loved about EQ2 default UI was every piece was seperate. All other games I've played had terribly clunky UIs with tons of crap attached to it that you couldn't move. Is the intention to streamline the UI and make it pretty? Because all it's doing is annoying me because I can't have it the way I want it and have had it for 6 years.The new xp/button bar is way too big. I would like to see it split into pieces...the way every other piece is made. Leave the xp bar as a single piece that can be enlarged or shrunk. Then make another piece that has all the shortcut buttons together. No real need to split the buttons on opposite sides of the xp bar anyways.While change is good and keeps things fresh, I say you must keep in line with what has been the mold for 6 years. Freshen up the UI but keep all the pieces seperate so we the users can make our UIs our way and not be forced into accomodating big, clunky pieces (or hiding them completely).

JenarieII

07-28-2010, 02:19 PM

<cite>Archan@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>However, I think changing everything to red was very unecessary. I'd have preffered EQ2 to keep it's familiar blue, though I may be the only one to pick on something so minor.</blockquote>To me this isn't minor. I avoid certain zones in the game because they are "too red" and hurt my eyes. Blue is much more restful to look at especially on something like a UI that is looked at for hours at a time by some people.It may be too late but I think color is extremely important and red is a very bad idea.

TheSpin

07-28-2010, 02:22 PM

I would definately like a simple Exp bar. I hit Alt O to bring up my menu and would remove the eq2 button if I could.I also don't know what I'll do if the hotbars can't be made vertical. right now I have all 10 hotbars on the screen and only 3 of them are horizontal.

Cynith

07-28-2010, 02:29 PM

<cite>Arieneth@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>So I checked out the new UI in test and it was better than I expected. Except the new xp bar. The one thing I always loved about EQ2 default UI was every piece was seperate. All other games I've played had terribly clunky UIs with tons of crap attached to it that you couldn't move. Is the intention to streamline the UI and make it pretty? Because all it's doing is annoying me because I can't have it the way I want it and have had it for 6 years.The new xp/button bar is way too big. I would like to see it split into pieces...the way every other piece is made. Leave the xp bar as a single piece that can be enlarged or shrunk. Then make another piece that has all the shortcut buttons together. No real need to split the buttons on opposite sides of the xp bar anyways.While change is good and keeps things fresh, I say you must keep in line with what has been the mold for 6 years. Freshen up the UI but keep all the pieces seperate so we the users can make our UIs our way and not be forced into accomodating big, clunky pieces (or hiding them completely).</blockquote>I posted before but this right here represents my feelings as well!When I saw UI changes announced I was very worried - I started thinking about all those other games I had tried and how I HATED their UI's - clunky, big, obnoxious and not customizable - I was pleasantly surprised that they kept most things very similar with the exception of that EXP bar with ugly buttons.I want my pieces separate. I want my EQII button with all possible menu options right there at my fingertips in alphabetical order as they are now - I don't want those extra buttons attached to my exp bar - I like it, i use it . . . I keep it VERY small and off in the corner of my screen for easy access. Those buttons on the new UI are excess and huge - I would make them disappear completely if they were separate from my exp bar.I REALLY don't want to use another party's UI - I use eq2maps because it's one of the best things I have ever come across but everything else is standard.The rest of the UI at first glance is pretty good with some really nice tweaks to the original, and I actually do like the color change but there was nothing wrong with the blue either - maybe you could let us customize our UI skin for colors?

Nevynmysti

07-28-2010, 02:39 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>*snipped* Can I ask what resolution you're playing on? We've pretty much optimized for 1280x1024. So if you're lower than that, it will probably look pretty crowded.</blockquote>Lucky You to have such a large screen to play on. I operate 1024x768.... Makes this new UI even more horrible. One reason I never got profit fully or the likes is all the dang GROUPED CLUTTER on my screen!Here is my opinion now that I have viewed the actuall changes.WE ARE NOT FREEREALMS OR FREE 2 PLAY! We are your subscription subscribers and that SC button has no business being right in our face all the time. NOR does SC amount have any business being on my REPAIR or SELL TO MERCHANT screens. I understand your a business and profit is your bottom line, but really, many of us have been customers for years, even with minor breaks. I have been one since around FEB 05!! I want the old exp bar back as an option. Period. And, I think for those that want/like this new exp bar ... it needs to be reziable vertically, ALL BUTTONS need option to be removed, an option to resize the buttons they choose to use. It has too much embellishment on it as well. Need to be made to run vertically or horizontally. Not happy about rearranging the perfect UI I had built from default to give room to something so clunky and huge and losing screen space to see the world <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" />WHERE is my zone reuse option in the eq2 menu?????????The new color scheme is nice for those who like the color red. TO me red is hard to stare at all the time and windows and stuff even vanished into the background when up against an acorn in GreaterFay were I made a new character to check out how that worked. GIVE us color options.... Blue, Red, Purple... would be better.. or just go back to old colors. I am a tradeskiller mostly too... staring at red when crafting hurts the eyes alot!I DO NOT like the new character screen. It shows my character in a shorter window.. Known by how the equipment items wrap around things. I DO NOT need these extra drop downs... Information seems missing off of the main drop down. If your going to keep this ugly screen, Necklace slot should be next to the charm slots... It also needs to go smaller yet.WHAT I DO LIKE:The rounded corners... as someone said earlier give the feeling of contemporaryness. I like that the ck boxes for the mini journal have been moved to the outside edge.Thank you for leaving the compass, for getting a text removal on my maintained window, and for bringing back the clock as a seperate piece. (the changes don't even work right with map updater being used). I like the blue jewelness to the exp bar.... The increase in letter size in the mini journal is nice as well. The options to move things around in F10 mode rocks as well.The new tutorial screen at the start is great for new players... not needed by vets. I did like it, and did even like the basic background as much as I agree that it is simple and not very impressive. Need option to turn off however, like we got with the dang tutorial buttons.Will add more as I run across it.

Zutan

07-28-2010, 02:50 PM

Speaking of hot bars...Can you make it so if I have hidden the spinners I can also "Lock" them? I constantly accidentally click one and end up with a wrong hotbar during combat. I have them hidden but if the mouse gets even slightly over the edge you end up spinning to another bar.

Barx

07-28-2010, 02:51 PM

<cite>Zutan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Speaking of hot bars...Can you make it so if I have hidden the spinners I can also "Lock" them? I constantly accidentally click one and end up with a wrong hotbar during combat. I have them hidden but if the mouse gets even slightly over the edge you end up spinning to another bar.</blockquote>Odd, that shouldn't be happening. If the spinners are hidden, there should be nothing for you to click to change it (although the keybind to swap to a given bank would still do it)

Dethdlr

07-28-2010, 03:26 PM

<cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zutan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Speaking of hot bars...Can you make it so if I have hidden the spinners I can also "Lock" them? I constantly accidentally click one and end up with a wrong hotbar during combat. I have them hidden but if the mouse gets even slightly over the edge you end up spinning to another bar.</blockquote>Odd, that shouldn't be happening. If the spinners are hidden, there should be nothing for you to click to change it (although the keybind to swap to a given bank would still do it)</blockquote>Zutan: Are you sure we're talking about the same thing? By hidden, do you mean you fiddled with the opacity sliders so they don't show up? Or do you mean you clicked the checkboxes to make them not show up?

Araxes

07-28-2010, 03:32 PM

Here's my thoughts:1.) XP bar is way, way, way too big and bulky. 2.) The big button chunks on either side of XP bar need to be detachable. I might have missed it, but I didn't see that they were.3.) Not a fan of the blue marble background on XP bar and certain other windows. Can we have the options to change this to a solid color as well as give it a transparency slider like most other backgrounds?4.) Overall I find the small serif font text (when enabled) much harder to read than it currently is on Live. It seems slightly smaller and bolder but not necessarily more legible. My eyes feel more strained, in general. I much prefer this text over the default, but it seems to have been adjusted down a pixel point or two which makes all the difference, to me.5.) I feel like the scroll bar in the left of the chat window is too bulky. Either the text needs to be set further away from it, or it should be streamlined.6.) I dislike the XP bar containing so many unmovable buttons. Particularly the Main Menu button which I have always moved up into the upper right corner of my screen, or lower right corner.7.) The red hue color of everything. Maybe it's just me -- but I don't find any shade of red to be pleasant, even the earthy one, here. I prefer grays, blues, or something slightly more subtle. Can we have the option to change the color of the UI as we like? Maybe a little palette to choose from? If this is already there, I missed it.8.) Can we get the Quest Helper tracker window to automatically sort, pin & keep quests in order of level?9.) My most wanted: please give option to see implied target encounters when assisting though someone else! Or at least add in a window which will tell you if present target is part of an encounter when assisting someone. There has never been a way to do this when assisting, short of off-targeting for a moment before pulls. I know I am not the only one who wants it! It would really make like great for classes that use lots of mizes of blue and green AE (oh, you know, like, warlocks for instance) <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I do like the way the map window has been combined with time.Ara

Nevynmysti

07-28-2010, 03:43 PM

Monitor space/size set at 1024x768What I liked about the old default User Interface... see how the hotbars and everything else all work together well!<img src="http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc309/trjnmanb/EQ2_000124.jpg" />What I had to do because of a rotten exp bar... and still not happy with the change.....<img src="http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc309/trjnmanb/EQ2_000000.jpg" />Just noticed I cannot resize the casting bar... need to be able to please!!! at least horizontally!If this new exp bar was designed because of F2P crap... then add it in there... not on our subscribed servers!

Bremer

07-28-2010, 03:47 PM

Two things:When you press F10 and can move the windows around, almost all windows are just plain black rectangles.Only very few windows still have a frame (chat window, threat window). Most windows are just plain black. So having multiple windows next to each other (eg hotbars) creates one big black blob. All windows in the F10 mode should at least show their frames, so that you know what you are moving and don't have to press multiple times F10 after every window to know, what exactly you are moving.And the xp bar: Instead of having a giant xp bar stretching the entire screen you should implement more windows in the bar. Eg, put a compass in the middle (having all 4 directions on the map window is redundant, north is top and everybody knows the rest (at least I hope so). And this doesn't help in zones without maps). Left and right from it a real time clock and a Norrath time clock. And then you have two smaller bars and use the left for xp, the right for AA xp.

Nevynmysti

07-28-2010, 03:50 PM

<cite>Bremer wrote:</cite><blockquote>Two things:When you press F10 and can move the windows around, almost all windows are just plain black rectangles.Only very few windows still have a frame (chat window, threat window). Most windows are just plain black. So having multiple windows next to each other (eg hotbars) creates one big black blob. All windows in the F10 mode should at least show their frames, so that you know what you are moving and don't have to press multiple times F10 after every window to know, what exactly you are moving.And the xp bar: Instead of having a giant xp bar stretching the entire screen you should implement more windows in the bar. Eg, put a compass in the middle (having all 4 directions on the map window is redundant, north is top and everybody knows the rest (at least I hope so). And this doesn't help in zones without maps). Left and right from it a real time clock and a Norrath time clock. And then you have two smaller bars and use the left for xp, the right for AA xp.</blockquote>oh please no! and have it take up more room and be bulkier???

Looker1010

07-28-2010, 04:13 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Looker1010 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Looker1010 wrote:</cite><blockquote>XP BarThe new XP bar is not for everyone, we understand that. Our UI always lacked some sort of anchor element which resulted in a lot of floating windows. Third-party UI's have created top and bottom anchor bars for awhile now. We decided that we wanted to create an anchor like this for the default UI. The XP bar has been designed to snap to the top or the bottom of the screen, or you can keep it centered in the screen below your hotbars. As with any window, you can always hide this window completely if you don't care to see it. We expect our modding community to come out with all kinds of cool replacements for this bar, anywhere from minimal anchor bars filled with stats to other crazy things we probably aren't thinking of. The nice thing is that they can make use of the snapping functionality thats built into the bar and I can't wait to see what people come up with.I don't place my XP bar on the top or bottom of my screen. My hotbars go on the bottom, with the XP bar above. This new XP bar is screen wide and not re-sizable. It interferes with other items I place to either side of my XP bar. If I click onthe XP bar it goes "on top" and prevents me from clicking on items it covers. i can see them but not access them.You need to make the XP bar re sizable so we can, if desired, make it narrower.</blockquote>I was able to resize it.. just not vertically. Only horizontally.</blockquote>How odd. I can't get any graphic but the one to move it so I can't resize.</blockquote>Do you currently have it snapped to the top or bottom? If so, just drag it towards the middle of the screen to unsnap it. Then you can resize it. </blockquote>This matter is now moot. Just logged in and the client rejected my very old custom UI. I am currently using the default which I find ugly and very over done.

seamus

07-28-2010, 04:22 PM

Thanks Nevynmysti, your screenies are great.Roth you have got to make that new xp bar optional. It takes up way too much real estate.The old UI was superior because all the widgets were distinct and could be placed or hidden as desired. It was more flexible. You are taking away flexibility and I don't want to use a third party UI.And please give us an Auto Attack bar. Yeah I asked for it already but I really want it. In fact I will press the current or even the new SC key and buy 1000 points for an Auto Attack bar. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />

isest

07-28-2010, 04:43 PM

<cite>Nevynmysti wrote:</cite><blockquote>Monitor space/size set at 1024x768What I liked about the old default User Interface... see how the hotbars and everything else all work together well!<img src="http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc309/trjnmanb/EQ2_000124.jpg" />What I had to do because of a rotten exp bar... and still not happy with the change.....<img src="http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc309/trjnmanb/EQ2_000000.jpg" />Just noticed I cannot resize the casting bar... need to be able to please!!! at least horizontally!If this new exp bar was designed because of F2P crap... then add it in there... not on our subscribed servers!</blockquote>I agree if that was for the f2p servers then stick it over there, I want my old bar back its way to big and bulky and oh I just reloged back in and guess what I had to resize and move it yet again as it was covering my entire hotbar area. So for some reason its not saving that change. I dont mide the other changes too bad other than the blue being replaced with brown ill will but that xp bar is too much. Makes one wonder why they did this, it was not broken in the first place.

Purr

07-28-2010, 05:24 PM

A few more things:The BG key is truely NOT the place to hide the zone timers under. Not only is it NOT intuitive, it's outright wrong. Please give us a key for Zone timers.Please let us hide keys in the XP bar that we don't want to see (like the BG or the MP key or at least let us move them for another order or let us lock them to grey them out. All this stuff might be nice for a new player who doesn't know/use the shortkeys, but for us vet players it's all redundent anyway. And even a new player would surely prefer to put the most used keys in the front positions.Let us move Groupmembers around within the group window. I'm getting tired of having to rethink all my key setups just because the tank went LD and ends up at the end of the group window after relogging.Please, if you add click to cure/heal, give us afew more buff/spell/heal slots under each group members name in the group window that we could attach a spell/ability/buff to. That would make it so much easier to refresh buffs etc that got disspelled.Please set the new Character/Persona screen to default >P<, not >C< to not interfere with the default crouch.More options for the UI background color - let people chose. I would love blue...More after more testing...Purr~

Rothgar

07-28-2010, 05:57 PM

<cite>Eezel wrote:</cite><blockquote>Having logged onto test I'm just simply at a loss of words. Ugly is about the only thing I can come up with. Its the thing that has kept me from most other MMO's and now its been crammed down my throat here. I doubt I'll stick around after 6 years I'm not happy and not gonna waste hard earned cash to continue playing.ProfitUI is completly broken. Maintained Window which already did exactly what SoE just added in becomes useless because its not compatable. We get 3 bottom bars loaded up all over because something is calling the custom file a couple times instead of once or its ignoring it all together. The XP bar is gross down right to the point I wanted to log out and not even look at the rest.Sorry Roth but you missed the mark on this by far.</blockquote>It sounds to me like your main complaint is that Profit UI isn't working and these changes have only been on Test for 1 day. You've got to give the modders time to fix these things.

ShadowMunkie

07-28-2010, 05:58 PM

Sp while everyone is busy complaining about the XP bar and the color. You should really take a look at the MERCHANT window.<img src="http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm165/ShadowMunkie/test_mender.png" />Notice anything different on it? SC 650 (Thats right Station Cash is displayed)

Rothgar

07-28-2010, 06:02 PM

<cite>Solzak@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>Let's be honest here. The disappearing clock and the "huge ugly SC button" are human engineering on a slightly contemptible scale. If you cant see the time, you might play longer. If the SC button is always there, it's always tempting you to fork over more RL cash to SoE. Notice that while the clock is now under consideration for return, the "huge ugly button" hasn't even been mentioned. And won't be. Did you find a way to make sure third-party UI's can't get rid of it? Because they will. And I will cheer them on.</blockquote>Being honest, merging the clock with the mini-map had nothing to do with trying to make you play longer. Removing the old clock window was about cleaning things up, but I've already put it back since many of you don't want to use the mini-map. The SC button is definitely about exposure. We want new players to be aware that its there. We needed an anchor button for the right-side of the XP Bar to offset the EQII button and it was decided to make it the SC button. If modders want to completely change that XP Bar, more power to them.

Laiina

07-28-2010, 06:04 PM

<cite>KNINE wrote:</cite><blockquote>hopefully profit updater gets updated quickly is all i can say /shrug</blockquote>Lottsa luck on that, since the original designers are no longer maintaining it. I never liked the Profit UI anyway on any class but healer, which I seldom play.However, I am sure that with the new UI there will be newer and better ones by others.And I agree with many others here - I use the clock, I seldom use the mini-map - screen real estate is already at a premium.

LardLord

07-28-2010, 06:06 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>It sounds to me like your main complaint is that Profit UI isn't working and these changes have only been on Test for 1 day. You've got to give the modders time to fix these things. </blockquote>Not trying to be rude here, but what exactly was the point of the change? You admit that the new look is a matter of preference, you avoided adding functionality that we've been requesting for years...does it at least improve performance, since we know what a resource hog the UI has been?I'm not a UI modder (I suck at it), but I have made some changes to my UI so that I have the information/functionality that I want. Now I'm going to have to take hours to get those changes back working the way it is now?I just don't see the point to these changes, while I see plenty of reasons they have a downside.

BabyAngel

07-28-2010, 06:06 PM

I miss my tiny XP bar, please... the other changes are not so bad (since your giving the clock back) But that XP bar just screams cartoony and is just far, far to big.This is just a guess, and others can argue me if they want, but most of us read from left to right, and so putting the xp bar in the middle or somewhere out of the way was very, very useful...it was small enough to do that, its to big now, takes up far to much space. Especially when your 90/90 with 250 aa... You don't even need an xp bar then.One thing I liked about EQ2 was that I could go at my own pace, disable combat xp etc... take the game slow. This xp bar really pushes the "Level to 90" in your face...Thats my feedback, hope it helps.

Rothgar

07-28-2010, 06:15 PM

<cite>Nevynmysti wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>*snipped* Can I ask what resolution you're playing on? We've pretty much optimized for 1280x1024. So if you're lower than that, it will probably look pretty crowded.</blockquote>Lucky You to have such a large screen to play on. I operate 1024x768.... Makes this new UI even more horrible. One reason I never got profit fully or the likes is all the dang GROUPED CLUTTER on my screen!Here is my opinion now that I have viewed the actuall changes.WE ARE NOT FREEREALMS OR FREE 2 PLAY! We are your subscription subscribers and that SC button has no business being right in our face all the time. NOR does SC amount have any business being on my REPAIR or SELL TO MERCHANT screens. I understand your a business and profit is your bottom line, but really, many of us have been customers for years, even with minor breaks. I have been one since around FEB 05!! I want the old exp bar back as an option. Period. And, I think for those that want/like this new exp bar ... it needs to be reziable vertically, ALL BUTTONS need option to be removed, an option to resize the buttons they choose to use. It has too much embellishment on it as well. Need to be made to run vertically or horizontally. Not happy about rearranging the perfect UI I had built from default to give room to something so clunky and huge and losing screen space to see the world <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" />WHERE is my zone reuse option in the eq2 menu?????????The new color scheme is nice for those who like the color red. TO me red is hard to stare at all the time and windows and stuff even vanished into the background when up against an acorn in GreaterFay were I made a new character to check out how that worked. GIVE us color options.... Blue, Red, Purple... would be better.. or just go back to old colors. I am a tradeskiller mostly too... staring at red when crafting hurts the eyes alot!I DO NOT like the new character screen. It shows my character in a shorter window.. Known by how the equipment items wrap around things. I DO NOT need these extra drop downs... Information seems missing off of the main drop down. If your going to keep this ugly screen, Necklace slot should be next to the charm slots... It also needs to go smaller yet.WHAT I DO LIKE:The rounded corners... as someone said earlier give the feeling of contemporaryness. I like that the ck boxes for the mini journal have been moved to the outside edge.Thank you for leaving the compass, for getting a text removal on my maintained window, and for bringing back the clock as a seperate piece. (the changes don't even work right with map updater being used). I like the blue jewelness to the exp bar.... The increase in letter size in the mini journal is nice as well. The options to move things around in F10 mode rocks as well.The new tutorial screen at the start is great for new players... not needed by vets. I did like it, and did even like the basic background as much as I agree that it is simple and not very impressive. Need option to turn off however, like we got with the dang tutorial buttons.Will add more as I run across it.</blockquote>I just wanted to say thanks for posting the things that you do like about the UI changes. It's very easy to make a post and only talk about the things that you don't like, but taking the time to tell us what you do like helps us just as much.As far as the new tutorial screens, there is an option to disable them. Its under Options -> UI -> Game Features, right next to the Tutorial Triggers option.Speaking in general about the main complaints; the red color and the XP bar, I'll certainly bring them up but can't make any promises. The UI changes were decided upon by a large group of people; designers, artists, producers, coders, etc. So this feedback will need to be discussed at length with those people who made the decisions in the beginning.

Madmonte

07-28-2010, 06:19 PM

I read about these interface changes and went "uh-oh, time to go check them out". I'm a very style-traditional player that, after years of playing EQ2 refused to EVER download prophet UI (although everyone was just raving about it) and always took the extra effort it required curing without the raid window even when playing a healer.That said...the UI changes SOE is making were significant. And to my shock, I actually LIKED them. I respect everyone talking about the XP bar...and I can see your point on that, especially because of placement...my xp bar was placed near to where they have it anyways, where I normally had dead space, so for me it actually frees up room, and I even like that.I was really shocked at how much I enjoy the new UI...easier to drag hotbars (that was ALWAYS a pain) and many aspects of prophet UI that you wish you DID have prophet UI for, but now don't need to have all the added CRAP that prophet brings, like option to resize icons, things like that...I also thought the interface was clean, more modern, and more fresh, a nice update all around.What I'm most impressed with is the tutorial, though...although I haven't found a way to turn it OFF if you don't need it! But the concept behind the tutorial is perfect, as I had been thinking for a long time that the way EQ2 has evolved, it must be VERY intimidating to new players coming in, and this helps leaps and bounds with that.(I would recommend, on player creation, an option to turn tutorial off...if it is there, I just didn't see it, so maybe if it IS there, make it easier to see?)Other than that, where did my compass go? If it's engrained into the mini map...I'm not a mini map fan...I prefer my compass seperate please! Give the option to seperate compass from the mini map if you could? I love the compass, but prefer to press "m" to orient myself, I don't often get lost...it's fine with the minimap where it is, and a lot of players will like that, but could you give option to "Show compass portion only?"

Rick777

07-28-2010, 06:19 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite> If modders want to completely change that XP Bar, more power to them.</blockquote>This is the problem! I'm not surprised you ignored answering those of us who are asking why you wasted the time to make these completely non game affecting cosmetic changes instead of improving the UI with things players have been begging from you for literally years.But besides that, the problem here is once again you are FORCING US TO USE A 3RD PARTY UI ADDON!! We are already forced to use one to get click to cure, which is extremely difficult to raid without having, let me guess though you won't comment on that one. Now we have to use a 3rd party UI addon just to get rid of the SC button, seriously? We understand that the name of the game is SC and making SOE money, but I really think that huge SC button is just a serious insult to your long term subscribers, but that's a matter for another topic. I feel bad for you in that I have a feeling you really want to help us out with gameplay enhancing UI changes, but you have your hands tied by the beancounters and SOE cramming SC down our throats. Maybe you can help get some kind of middle ground somewhere, but I'm looking at pictures of that xp bar and the SC button and I just don't know if I can stomach that in my face all the time.Please ask the bean counters to give you some dev time to actually ADD something to the UI to help gameplay. These cosmetic changes were NOT needed in the least except to bring in more SC, ok we are going to have to accept that at some point. Just throw us grouping/raiding players something at least, click to cure, more hotbars, fix market broker, etc etc.

MurFalad

07-28-2010, 06:19 PM

I jumped onto test today and had a look at things first hand.Overall there is a lot I like about it, the combined together windows were fine although the XP bar style had empty space above and below the middle of it, not sure on the icons though as they felt too rounded.But the big downer though was the big SC button prominent place, the station cash splashed prominently all over the screen on the welcome screen, it felt like hard sell here, not like a premium subscriber service. If I wanted to use the station cash I could find it fine without it taking up so much of my UI, I'd much rather have something useful there.

kalaria

07-28-2010, 06:20 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote> The UI changes were decided upon by a large group of people; designers, artists, producers, coders, etc. </blockquote>Shame -PLAYERS- aren't in that list. Who would of thought that they would have an idea of what would be useful with playing the game. Players have only been asking for certain elements of custom UIs to be added into default for YEARS now. This was the perfect time to do such a thing, and not a single one was done. Who really cares what the players want anyways? Just make sure that Station Cash button is blatant... suprised it doesn't have bright flashy effects going around it the entire time just to drive the point home.

Madmonte

07-28-2010, 06:21 PM

Oh I was also a fan (for new players) of the ? box placements and setup, and I think things are explained very well.

Polywogus

07-28-2010, 06:25 PM

I have always been extremely pleased with the versatility of the current UI. I can change icon sizes, hotbars to be show many different ways, hide what I don't want, & I love the map as-is. I'd really like to continue using what I have, & request that the changes be entirely optional. While I do see some things I like in the new, I'd rather keep the old for now. I'd hate to start using a modded UI after so many years. & honestly, that new XP bar...yeech.

Madmonte

07-28-2010, 06:26 PM

<cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is the problem! I'm not surprised you ignored answering those of us who are asking why you wasted the time to make these completely non game affecting cosmetic changes instead of improving the UI with things players have been begging from you for literally years.But besides that, the problem here is once again you are FORCING US TO USE A 3RD PARTY UI ADDON!! We are already forced to use one to get click to cure, which is extremely difficult to raid without having, let me guess though you won't comment on that one. Now we have to use a 3rd party UI addon just to get rid of the SC button, seriously? We understand that the name of the game is SC and making SOE money, but I really think that huge SC button is just a serious insult to your long term subscribers, but that's a matter for another topic. I feel bad for you in that I have a feeling you really want to help us out with gameplay enhancing UI changes, but you have your hands tied by the beancounters and SOE cramming SC down our throats. Maybe you can help get some kind of middle ground somewhere, but I'm looking at pictures of that xp bar and the SC button and I just don't know if I can stomach that in my face all the time.Please ask the bean counters to give you some dev time to actually ADD something to the UI to help gameplay. These cosmetic changes were NOT needed in the least except to bring in more SC, ok we are going to have to accept that at some point. Just throw us grouping/raiding players something at least, click to cure, more hotbars, fix market broker, etc etc.</blockquote>Yes also do add click to cure to the raid window...then noone would ever feel they NEED prophet UI. I also think the SC button isn't exactly taking up the entire screen, it didn't strike me as that big a deal in the overall feel. Glame me hard if you want, but not all my posts are positive, I just actually like the new UI (shrugs)

Rick777

07-28-2010, 06:26 PM

BTW for the record, I really like the F10 feature! Another idea, how about a quest slot bag so we don't have to dig thru 200 slots to find that quest item in all my bags. See how this is a gameplay enhancing addition, but it will probably end up you redo the bag graphics and add a SC tag on them or something.

Cyliena

07-28-2010, 06:36 PM

Since resolution was asked about, here's what my old setup looks like compared to the new one with the huge xp bar (AFTER I shrunk it down some, it initially went across the entire bottom of the screen) on 1680x1050 (clicky for bigger images). The minimap also cannot shrink down as far, and due to its size I had to shorten how large I normal have my quest helper window open since that was the only place I could shove it "nicely" out of the way but still have my day/night indicator.Old UI:<a href="http://i31.tinypic.com/289am2r.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i27.tinypic.com/2lt6s5.jpg" width="840" height="512" /></a>New UI:<a href="http://i31.tinypic.com/2vw8zlv.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i30.tinypic.com/2yobq0h.jpg" width="840" height="512" /></a>

Felshades

07-28-2010, 06:43 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>My only question is why click-to-cure is still left out of the default ui.</blockquote>I dislike click to cure on profit and fetish because with all those other stupid alla/eq2i/etc buttons on there they're a pain in the backside to click on.I'd be happy with the ability to outline party member portraits with debuff type based on color so i can identify what kind of debuff they have and the ability to use mouseover macros./cast <spell> target=mouseoverhave that crap work on player avatars, raid/party name frames, target frame and player frame for all spells and i'll be a happy camper.I hate having to manually target people to heal them and cure them. I dont do it in any game that allows mouseover macros and click casting on a tiny little button that shows the debuff is annoying as crap. Allow me to mouseover the player needing cured and hit my cure hotkey and im good.

Morrias

07-28-2010, 06:48 PM

I cant seem to find the zone reuse window anywhere on the UI.. what am I missing? >.<

Rothgar

07-28-2010, 06:49 PM

<cite>Purr wrote:</cite><blockquote>A few more things:The BG key is truely NOT the place to hide the zone timers under. Not only is it NOT intuitive, it's outright wrong. Please give us a key for Zone timers.Please let us hide keys in the XP bar that we don't want to see (like the BG or the MP key or at least let us move them for another order or let us lock them to grey them out. All this stuff might be nice for a new player who doesn't know/use the shortkeys, but for us vet players it's all redundent anyway. And even a new player would surely prefer to put the most used keys in the front positions.Let us move Groupmembers around within the group window. I'm getting tired of having to rethink all my key setups just because the tank went LD and ends up at the end of the group window after relogging.Please, if you add click to cure/heal, give us afew more buff/spell/heal slots under each group members name in the group window that we could attach a spell/ability/buff to. That would make it so much easier to refresh buffs etc that got disspelled.Please set the new Character/Persona screen to default >P<, not >C< to not interfere with the default crouch.More options for the UI background color - let people chose. I would love blue...More after more testing...Purr~</blockquote>The Battlegrounds/Zone Reuse window should remember the last tab you were on. So if you don't play battlegrounds, it should come up on the zone reuse tab every time you hit Alt-Z. If its not remembering the tab correctly, thats a bug.We aren't considering adding new things like re-ordering the group window until we fix the current changes. I'm not saying its not a good idea or anything, just that its a new idea and we need to fix the other issues first. I think the team is pretty set on the current default keybindings so you'll just need to remap them yourself if you want them back the old way. Fortunately the option to do that already exists! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />The UI background colors are baked into the textures that we use. This isn't a simple color value change somewhere in code or in the UI files. It would require a new set of textures, so I don't think we will be providing multiple options for colors. However, I'm sure if a modder were to re-hue our existing textures to blue or some other color, it would probably be a popular download.We may have another option for the XP bar that will reduce its size somewhat, but it will be a compromise. I'll have more information about it later.

DuneWarrior

07-28-2010, 06:51 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote> The UI changes were decided upon by a large group of people; designers, artists, producers, coders, etc. So this feedback will need to be discussed at length with those people who made the decisions in the beginning.</blockquote>How about having the PLAYERS weigh in BEFORE you change? im sure you would have gotten a totally different direction than this ... mesh..Now, with the EQ2X and the producers letter and me having a kid playing FreeRealms ... i SEE the similarities, and i also see what you - as a company, not you as a person <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - are doing. Its all about exposure, its all about the almighty bottom line considering that THIS is now a F2P game the SC needs to be readily there and usable for when EQ2X goes live.The interface changes - Most of the GU57 changes, like neutrality and spells - revolves around spiffing things up for the F2P players, not about improving it for the current playerbase.Might i also add, that Red is a very hard colour for me to look at, for some reason that colour appears 'ghosted' when wearing eyeglasses, and there is no way of changing it is there?

Rothgar

07-28-2010, 06:52 PM

<cite>Enma@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sp while everyone is busy complaining about the XP bar and the color. You should really take a look at the MERCHANT window.<img src="http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm165/ShadowMunkie/test_mender.png" />Notice anything different on it? SC 650 (Thats right Station Cash is displayed)</blockquote>Yes, we've added station cash to this window because of another key feature that you may not have noticed yet. Certain Marketplace items may now appear in a merchant list of it coincides with what the merchant is selling. For example, a horse merchant might also display a couple of marketplace horses (as an example) and you would be able to purchase those items from the merchant rather than having to use the Marketplace window. The SC amount at the bottom of the window makes it easier to see if you have the funds to purchase those items.*Puts on flame retardant suit*

Yimway

07-28-2010, 06:54 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite>=<blockquote>We aren't considering adding new things like re-ordering the group window until we fix the current changes. I'm not saying its not a good idea or anything, just that its a new idea and we need to fix the other issues first. I think the team is pretty set on the current default keybindings so you'll just need to remap them yourself if you want them back the old way. Fortunately the option to do that already exists! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>See folks, you heard it from Rothgar's lips first.New player needs trump legacy players. We're remamping your keys cause we think new players will find it easier if we do, sorry for the hassle, but you can remap yours, just remember to do that every 3rd time you zone out of BG and it resets for no apparent reason.

DuneWarrior

07-28-2010, 06:56 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes, we've added station cash to this window because of another key feature that you may not have noticed yet. Certain Marketplace items may now appear in a merchant list of it coincides with what the merchant is selling. For example, a horse merchant might also display a couple of marketplace horses (as an example) and you would be able to purchase those items from the merchant rather than having to use the Marketplace window. The SC amount at the bottom of the window makes it easier to see if you have the funds to purchase those items.*Puts on flame retardant suit*</blockquote>Of course that wont happen on the Legacy/Subscription based Servers Right?

Encantador

07-28-2010, 06:57 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Solzak@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>Let's be honest here. The disappearing clock and the "huge ugly SC button" are human engineering on a slightly contemptible scale. If you cant see the time, you might play longer. If the SC button is always there, it's always tempting you to fork over more RL cash to SoE. Notice that while the clock is now under consideration for return, the "huge ugly button" hasn't even been mentioned. And won't be. Did you find a way to make sure third-party UI's can't get rid of it? Because they will. And I will cheer them on.</blockquote>Being honest, merging the clock with the mini-map had nothing to do with trying to make you play longer. Removing the old clock window was about cleaning things up, but I've already put it back since many of you don't want to use the mini-map. The SC button is definitely about exposure. We want new players to be aware that its there. We needed an anchor button for the right-side of the XP Bar to offset the EQII button and it was decided to make it the SC button. If modders want to completely change that XP Bar, more power to them.</blockquote>I have always played using the default UI plus eq2maps. These changes are going to make me look for mods <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. I hate the 'anchor' and exp bar. I have always managed to move the EQ2 button off screen or hide it under my hot bars. Now I will need a mod to get rid of it.I also dislike the 'balancing' of the spinner with a another dead area. I play with some hotbars with spinners and several without. Why create this? Some strange aesthetic appeal ? All it does is create another area of the screen I cannot click on. My fiancee is going to go nuts when this is put on live. She plays with several vertical hotbars and some very carefully placed rectangular blocks all with spinners*. This will go to pieces when the edges of the 2 sets start overlapping. It will ruin the first evening we play with this in place <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.* Do not tell me she should play with out the spinners visible. Just don't go there. She's female and stubborn.

DuneWarrior

07-28-2010, 06:57 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite>=<blockquote>We aren't considering adding new things like re-ordering the group window until we fix the current changes. I'm not saying its not a good idea or anything, just that its a new idea and we need to fix the other issues first. I think the team is pretty set on the current default keybindings so you'll just need to remap them yourself if you want them back the old way. Fortunately the option to do that already exists! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>See folks, you heard it from Rothgar's lips first.New player needs trump legacy players. We're remamping your keys cause we think new players will find it easier if we do, sorry for the hassle, but you can remap yours, just remember to do that every 3rd time you zone out of BG and it resets for no apparent reason.</blockquote>where you really doubting that Atan ? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Yimway

07-28-2010, 06:59 PM

<cite>Zaktull@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>where you really doubting that Atan ? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>LOL, not remotely, just figured it wouldn't have been illustrated so quickly <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

ShadowMunkie

07-28-2010, 07:05 PM

<cite>Zaktull@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes, we've added station cash to this window because of another key feature that you may not have noticed yet. Certain Marketplace items may now appear in a merchant list of it coincides with what the merchant is selling. For example, a horse merchant might also display a couple of marketplace horses (as an example) and you would be able to purchase those items from the merchant rather than having to use the Marketplace window. The SC amount at the bottom of the window makes it easier to see if you have the funds to purchase those items.*Puts on flame retardant suit*</blockquote>Of course that wont happen on the Legacy/Subscription based Servers Right?</blockquote>You have to be joking, thats one thing that will be on all servers. Its inside the marketplace window the only way to get rid of it is to remove it with a mod.

Morrias

07-28-2010, 07:06 PM

<cite>Zaktull@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>How about having the PLAYERS weigh in BEFORE you change? im sure you would have gotten a totally different direction than this ... mesh..</blockquote>THIS X 1000what ever happened to that improved communication that was promised?---Also gonna say it again, certain windows need looked at (Socials, Achievement, Guild, etc.) very hard to read for me.. although I seem to be one of the few having this problem.. sigh.. :(Oh and I found my zone reuse button, hiding it under the BG button probably isnt the best idea.. O.O

Rothgar

07-28-2010, 07:09 PM

<cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite> If modders want to completely change that XP Bar, more power to them.</blockquote>This is the problem! I'm not surprised you ignored answering those of us who are asking why you wasted the time to make these completely non game affecting cosmetic changes instead of improving the UI with things players have been begging from you for literally years.But besides that, the problem here is once again you are FORCING US TO USE A 3RD PARTY UI ADDON!! We are already forced to use one to get click to cure, which is extremely difficult to raid without having, let me guess though you won't comment on that one. Now we have to use a 3rd party UI addon just to get rid of the SC button, seriously? We understand that the name of the game is SC and making SOE money, but I really think that huge SC button is just a serious insult to your long term subscribers, but that's a matter for another topic. I feel bad for you in that I have a feeling you really want to help us out with gameplay enhancing UI changes, but you have your hands tied by the beancounters and SOE cramming SC down our throats. Maybe you can help get some kind of middle ground somewhere, but I'm looking at pictures of that xp bar and the SC button and I just don't know if I can stomach that in my face all the time.Please ask the bean counters to give you some dev time to actually ADD something to the UI to help gameplay. These cosmetic changes were NOT needed in the least except to bring in more SC, ok we are going to have to accept that at some point. Just throw us grouping/raiding players something at least, click to cure, more hotbars, fix market broker, etc etc.</blockquote>I'm certainly not ignoring feedback, I just can't respond to every post. Not to mention we were without power for several hours this morning. I also don't want to keep saying the same thing over and over again.The goal of these UI changes were not to add a bunch of new features like click-to-cure and the auto-attack bar. However, we were able to get some cool new features in there like the quest ROI's, F10 to move your windows, etc. But, the main goal was to give the UI a newer, fresh, look and to consolidate some of the functionality into less windows. As far as the SC button goes, its obvious that the marketplace is a revenue stream for us and we want to make it visible and apparent to players. I don't think anyone is trying to say otherwise. We're not forcing anyone to do anything. You have options to turn the bar off, you can drag it so that the SC button is off the screen if you don't want to see it, you can mod the file yourself or you can download any number of mods that will probably become available for this window.Mods are an extremely important part of the game and the community. Using a mod shouldn't be viewed as a bad thing. Other MMO's rely way more heavily on mods than EQII does and its just a fact of life. We've tried to create a platform for the community to extend and enhance our user-interface. It's really no different than someone like Microsoft or Apple creating a development platform for other developers to extend their software and devices. If someone comes up with a great idea for a Windows program, Microsoft doesn't need to immediately go incorporate it into the operating system. Maybe one day we will build click-to-cure into the game, but in the meantime, if its something you want, we encourage you to download a mod, and that should be ok.

Dethdlr

07-28-2010, 07:11 PM

Let me make sure I got this straight:Default Mappings - Old UI:I = InventoryP = PersonaC = CrouchDefault Mappings - New UI:I = Nothing?P = Nothing?C = Character?? = CrouchDoes Crouch have a new default mapping?

Rick777

07-28-2010, 07:13 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite> If modders want to completely change that XP Bar, more power to them.</blockquote>This is the problem! I'm not surprised you ignored answering those of us who are asking why you wasted the time to make these completely non game affecting cosmetic changes instead of improving the UI with things players have been begging from you for literally years.But besides that, the problem here is once again you are FORCING US TO USE A 3RD PARTY UI ADDON!! We are already forced to use one to get click to cure, which is extremely difficult to raid without having, let me guess though you won't comment on that one. Now we have to use a 3rd party UI addon just to get rid of the SC button, seriously? We understand that the name of the game is SC and making SOE money, but I really think that huge SC button is just a serious insult to your long term subscribers, but that's a matter for another topic. I feel bad for you in that I have a feeling you really want to help us out with gameplay enhancing UI changes, but you have your hands tied by the beancounters and SOE cramming SC down our throats. Maybe you can help get some kind of middle ground somewhere, but I'm looking at pictures of that xp bar and the SC button and I just don't know if I can stomach that in my face all the time.Please ask the bean counters to give you some dev time to actually ADD something to the UI to help gameplay. These cosmetic changes were NOT needed in the least except to bring in more SC, ok we are going to have to accept that at some point. Just throw us grouping/raiding players something at least, click to cure, more hotbars, fix market broker, etc etc.</blockquote>I'm certainly not ignoring feedback, I just can't respond to every post. Not to mention we were without power for several hours this morning. I also don't want to keep saying the same thing over and over again.The goal of these UI changes were not to add a bunch of new features like click-to-cure and the auto-attack bar. However, we were able to get some cool new features in there like the quest ROI's, F10 to move your windows, etc. But, the main goal was to give the UI a newer, fresh, look and to consolidate some of the functionality into less windows. As far as the SC button goes, its obvious that the marketplace is a revenue stream for us and we want to make it visible and apparent to players. I don't think anyone is trying to say otherwise. We're not forcing anyone to do anything. You have options to turn the bar off, you can drag it so that the SC button is off the screen if you don't want to see it, you can mod the file yourself or you can download any number of mods that will probably become available for this window.Mods are an extremely important part of the game and the community. Using a mod shouldn't be viewed as a bad thing. Other MMO's rely way more heavily on mods than EQII does and its just a fact of life. We've tried to create a platform for the community to extend and enhance our user-interface. It's really no different than someone like Microsoft or Apple creating a development platform for other developers to extend their software and devices. If someone comes up with a great idea for a Windows program, Microsoft doesn't need to immediately go incorporate it into the operating system. Maybe one day we will build click-to-cure into the game, but in the meantime, if its something you want, we encourage you to download a mod, and that should be ok.</blockquote>Fair enough, I appreciate your honesty especially in regards to SC. The only question I have is why can't we have an option to just keep the old UI? I've been playing with the old UI for 6 years now and just really have learned to love it, and have wrung out functionality it wasn't meant to give (click to cure for example). Can you at least consider giving us an option to keep the old UI if that is our desire?

ShadowMunkie

07-28-2010, 07:13 PM

<cite>Decimatr@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Let me make sure I got this straight:Default Mappings - Old UI:I = InventoryP = PersonaC = CrouchDefault Mappings - New UI:I = Nothing?P = Nothing?C = Character?? = CrouchDoes Crouch have a new default mapping? </blockquote>Shift + C = Crouch

Rothgar

07-28-2010, 07:13 PM

<cite>kalaria wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote> The UI changes were decided upon by a large group of people; designers, artists, producers, coders, etc. </blockquote>Shame -PLAYERS- aren't in that list. Who would of thought that they would have an idea of what would be useful with playing the game. Players have only been asking for certain elements of custom UIs to be added into default for YEARS now. This was the perfect time to do such a thing, and not a single one was done. Who really cares what the players want anyways? Just make sure that Station Cash button is blatant... suprised it doesn't have bright flashy effects going around it the entire time just to drive the point home.</blockquote>Yeah, its almost like we should put these changes up on a Test Server and then start a feedback thread for people to tell us what they think! <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />If you want to get in on the action earlier you'll have to apply for a job at SOE. As you can see from this thread, there is a wide variety of likes and dislikes. Design-by-committee doesn't work when the committee can't come to a consensus. Let's try to keep this thread limited to constructive feedback about the changes please!

Dethdlr

07-28-2010, 07:16 PM

<cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite><blockquote> The only question I have is why can't we have an option to just keep the old UI? </blockquote>I can probably answer that one. Because then they would have to maintain two UIs instead of one. Notice how when a new update comes out, the modders have to tweak their interfaces to work? They'd have to do the same thing with the old UI and they believe that development time could be better used elsewhere. Gotta agree with them on that one.

Xill

07-28-2010, 07:18 PM

Some feedback -Remove the giant SC button please.I already must get slapped in the face with it every time I log in, I dont need it staring at me right next to my experience bar. I know it exists. I dont want it. STOP FORCING IT DOWN MY THROAT.

Kain-UK

07-28-2010, 07:24 PM

Been mucking around with this a little bit more... but not much...I most definitely want to see an option that will allow us to choose which XP bar we can use. In honesty, I can live with the new one, but I'd rather not. If the option will not be given to us, then I'm just gonna back up the old XP bar, modify some files and make EQ2 use that over the new one. I don't even know how to mod UI properly, but I'll give it a bloody good go! <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />An option to choose the blue over the red would be nice too. I've found the red is a little more straining on my eyes. Also, I'd like to see the old compass back because... for some reason... the new one is excluded from my mini-map! The clock is too, but I never used that as I typically play in windowed mode anyways, so the Windows 7 system clock is always visible.However, I do like the new casting bars, the new spell effects (even if not UI related) and the new hotbars!

Xill

07-28-2010, 07:28 PM

Neskonlith

07-28-2010, 07:29 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Mods are an extremely important part of the game and the community. Using a mod shouldn't be viewed as a bad thing. Other MMO's rely way more heavily on mods than EQII does and its just a fact of life. We've tried to create a platform for the community to extend and enhance our user-interface. It's really no different than someone like Microsoft or Apple creating a development platform for other developers to extend their software and devices. If someone comes up with a great idea for a Windows program, Microsoft doesn't need to immediately go incorporate it into the operating system. Maybe one day we will build click-to-cure into the game, but in the meantime, if its something you want, we encourage you to download a mod, and that should be ok. </blockquote>Mods used to be fun for me in eq2 until ThorUI got tired of supporting his work, and then later mods became very annoying when the UI would break on patch day because authors were slow in responding. My eq2 mod experience over the past few years indicates that such volunteer mod authors are unreliable in the long-term, when all I want is a stable customization to retain my current shrunken/minimalist UI setup that I have played on for hundreds of hours.I try to keep with standardUI as much as possible to avoid the inevitable broken UI delay that happens after a GU, eq2maps is the only custom mod I really have confidence in at this point - hence my request for more shrinkage options in standardUI.

Purr

07-28-2010, 07:33 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>The Battlegrounds/Zone Reuse window should remember the last tab you were on. So if you don't play battlegrounds, it should come up on the zone reuse tab every time you hit Alt-Z. If its not remembering the tab correctly, thats a bug.It displays the tab correctly, it seems. But the key itself is still called BG. My complain was more about the name then anything. It's a bit of a stretch to find Zone timers under something called Battlegrounds. Maybe you can just rename the key to something a bit more fitting if you don't want to pull the Zone timers out of the Battleground tab? The UI background colors are baked into the textures that we use. This isn't a simple color value change somewhere in code or in the UI files. It would require a new set of textures, so I don't think we will be providing multiple options for colors. However, I'm sure if a modder were to re-hue our existing textures to blue or some other color, it would probably be a popular download. Isn't the goal of making a new UI making things easier on players (new or vet)? I haven't counted the posts, but of the feedback so far at least 20% of the people don't like/have trouble with the red. I play Test. A modded UI is really NOT a good option because of the frequent Test updates which require a fest re-patch of the mod. Not really happening. So What's left is me doing my own mod, and I'm not sure it's worth it to me to get something back that wasn't broken in the first place.</blockquote>Rothgar, I understand that making changes like a Click to Cure/Heal, moving groupmembers within the group window, Adding buff etc slots to group member fields etc is something that requires manpower and time. But it is not like we didn't ask for them for years. Those aren't new issues.If you design a new UI, please don't discard those requests and throw them towards the moders. What is the point of a new UI if it is not incorporating things that are a standard now? I have modded games like Morrowind/Oblivion extensivly and it's fun, and I deeply appreciate every modder who puts his/her time into making free things for other players. But you/SoE is aiming this thing at new players - shouldn't they be pampered with the best and well thought out UI? They will look at it the whole time they are playing your game. Pointing them towards offsite volunteer modders - what does that say about SoE?Thanks for reading.Purr~

Hellswrath

07-28-2010, 07:34 PM

Elyssia

07-28-2010, 07:34 PM

The XP bar with the buttons stuck to it is a horrible thing - if we must have the buttons then please detach them from the XP bar so we can move them where we want them. And allow them to be altered so they can be vertical as well as horizontal, and make them all a standard size.Also take off the huge SC button - we know we can buy special items in the marketplace, why must you shove it in our face like that. We don't need the EQ2 button either since the EQ2 button is still there in it's own little box - but the SC one is just offensive.The compass and clock should not be attached to the mini-map, this serves no point except to attempt to force use of the mini-map. Leaving them separate makes for much easier customisation for each player to set up how it best suits him/her so why remove this?Why the change to the red base for everything? It looks awful and serves no purpose. Go back to the blue.If you really must make changes to the UI then why not look at the most popular custom UIs and ask why people use them over the standard one.Click to cure will be one of your main answers, as will percentages next to health and power stats. The melee auto-attack cast bar is also very popular and I'm sure there are several others that are widely used that I haven't mentioned here.Maybe try adding these features instead of changing existing ones that work perfectly well in the first place and just making them worse.

awny

07-28-2010, 07:35 PM

Rothgar

07-28-2010, 07:39 PM

<cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Fair enough, I appreciate your honesty especially in regards to SC. The only question I have is why can't we have an option to just keep the old UI? I've been playing with the old UI for 6 years now and just really have learned to love it, and have wrung out functionality it wasn't meant to give (click to cure for example). Can you at least consider giving us an option to keep the old UI if that is our desire?</blockquote>It's just not that easy unfortunately. We've modified textures, UI files and code in order for the changes to work. If you were to keep the old UI files, they would most likely not work with the new code. If you were to keep the old textures, there would be a lot of bugs with image alignment and new elements that weren't visible.

TalisX1

07-28-2010, 07:41 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Eezel wrote:</cite><blockquote>Having logged onto test I'm just simply at a loss of words. Ugly is about the only thing I can come up with. Its the thing that has kept me from most other MMO's and now its been crammed down my throat here. I doubt I'll stick around after 6 years I'm not happy and not gonna waste hard earned cash to continue playing.ProfitUI is completly broken. Maintained Window which already did exactly what SoE just added in becomes useless because its not compatable. We get 3 bottom bars loaded up all over because something is calling the custom file a couple times instead of once or its ignoring it all together. The XP bar is gross down right to the point I wanted to log out and not even look at the rest.Sorry Roth but you missed the mark on this by far.</blockquote>It sounds to me like your main complaint is that Profit UI isn't working and these changes have only been on Test for 1 day. You've got to give the modders time to fix these things.</blockquote>ProfitUI is functional on my PC. Once I check it a little more I will post the changes for test to eq2interface.Silat

KerowynnKaotic

07-28-2010, 07:42 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>*snipped* Being honest, merging the clock with the mini-map had nothing to do with trying to make you play longer. Removing the old clock window was about cleaning things up, but I've already put it back since many of you don't want to use the mini-map. The SC button is definitely about exposure. We want new players to be aware that its there. We needed an anchor button for the right-side of the XP Bar to offset the EQII button and it was decided to make it the SC button. If modders want to completely change that XP Bar, more power to them.</blockquote>I really don't understand the big deal on the clock. I've always hid it. Whenever I wanted to know what time it was in game I'd just type /time. And, still in um .. are we 5 or 6 years now? .. whatever .. in all the time I've played I think I can still count the numbers of time where I *had* to know Norrath's time on 1 hand .. okay maybe 6x .. I think I've ran through the DWB HQ about 6 times.As far as RL time, my computer keeps track of that with a simple swipe of the mouse and If I don't want to move my mouse ... all I need to do is look up for the 20in clock that's on the wall across from me. So what does the clock tell me that /time won't? 'Cause I like the Mini map but I don't need the clock there and I'm happy that EQ2 Maps is bugging the clock or whatever is 'wrong'. The SC button is over exposure! The Welcome Screen has nearly 1/3rd of it dedicated to the Marketplace! There's a Marketplace icon on the Menu bar and now the Merchants all report your SC money. Do you want to add in a SC money to our Bank, Guild Bank & Personal Inventory, too? I'd say that was sarcasm but in truth I won't be surprised to find it on my UI soon (tm)I really hate having to go to the Modding community to fix SOE's UI. You say you want to improve it but adding a bunch of redundant & useless flotsam isn't improving, it's just making a big mess that makes more & more people turn to outside help! Having a Mod to personalize your gaming experience is fine but having to use a Mod just to be able to play is bad development.Things I do like .. 'cause you are right we should tell you this:I like the Combo Character Tab ( which I moved to the "P" button) .. sorta .. I could nitpick and request a few tweaks but I do like the idea of it. Never liked having 2 different screens for inventory & stats, I do wish it didn't pop up everytime I have to use the Banker.And, I do like the new icon borders, they look more elegant but I don't like the bumper pads. Because there's no way to have the spinner without having the bumper pad. And, if you don't have them both up, the bumper pad isn't 'there' to grab for dragging of your hotbar. So I either hide both or deal with it. I'm doing both on Test. My 1st hotbar is showing the spinner & bumper pad, my other 9 hotbars are not showing them. I like the filigree over EXP bar, its pretty. I just wish it was just the Exp bar and not the rest of the stuff. I'm thinking I can do without it, though. I level like 1x per year for Adv. The only thing I care about is Crafting & to a minor point AAs but I can always just be surprised when I ding, if need be.And, I am sorry but those 3 things are the only thing I like about this new UI. I figure I'll be hiding and/or searching Eq2interface for more pleasant UI tweaks in the coming months. Which I find sad as I've been generally happy with the defualt UI for years. My only add on was EQ2maps & infocenter, though I haven't used it in years.

oneeyedlotus

07-28-2010, 07:43 PM

For over 10 years I have stuck by and defended the EQ franchaise through all its ups and downs. I know I can mod the SC items off the UI but this blatent money grab attempt has cross the line. You can't be so ignorant that you think that making free to play servers will kill all the new population going to the "legacy" servers. Within months all old servers will be ghost towns except for the raiding "elite" and you slowly pushing them out as it is. Anyone with half a brain knows that casual players are any MMO's money maker, microtransactions kept in the background made your company money. This will kill the game, I honestly think Your company doesn't even care because they will move to the next cash cow game. Quality will keep your playerbase, This will kill it. My only hope is for a decent game to come from a company that cares.

Rothgar

07-28-2010, 07:44 PM

<cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Mods are an extremely important part of the game and the community. Using a mod shouldn't be viewed as a bad thing. Other MMO's rely way more heavily on mods than EQII does and its just a fact of life. We've tried to create a platform for the community to extend and enhance our user-interface. It's really no different than someone like Microsoft or Apple creating a development platform for other developers to extend their software and devices. If someone comes up with a great idea for a Windows program, Microsoft doesn't need to immediately go incorporate it into the operating system. Maybe one day we will build click-to-cure into the game, but in the meantime, if its something you want, we encourage you to download a mod, and that should be ok. </blockquote>Mods used to be fun for me in eq2 until ThorUI got tired of supporting his work, and then later mods became very annoying when the UI would break on patch day because authors were slow in responding. My eq2 mod experience over the past few years indicates that such volunteer mod authors are unreliable in the long-term, when all I want is a stable customization to retain my current shrunken/minimalist UI setup that I have played on for hundreds of hours.I try to keep with standardUI as much as possible to avoid the inevitable broken UI delay that happens after a GU, eq2maps is the only custom mod I really have confidence in at this point - hence my request for more shrinkage options in standardUI.</blockquote>You have some very valid points. I try to communicate with the mod authors as much as possible here and on eq2interface.com. We also try to make sure that changes are on test enough in advance for them to fix things that have changed. GU57 is an exception to the norm. Most of the time our UI changes aren't this extensive, but when a game has been out for 6 years, sometimes extensive changes are necessary to keep pace with the times.I'm certainly willing to work with anyone that has questions about UI modding or fixing their existing mods. I'll be sure to make that known on eq2interface as well.

Cynith

07-28-2010, 08:00 PM

So Rothgar, basically you are saying the only way I can have and use my exp bar is to keep it open with those buttons that are redundant and unnecessary and bulky and clunky? or move the SC button off the screen? I don't want any of those buttons EXCEPT the EQII button and I run without allowing windows off my screen - so my only options are to HOPE that some third party creates a mod for that bar or turn it completely off . . . which also leaves me without the EQII button? **sigh**I don't like to use mods for the very reason expressed above here that you responded to - also it's an extra, added step to my game play that I should not have to do. You had something that worked before.Please separate the two windows . . . make a box with buttons and a separate exp bar - or the ability to turn the boxes off and just keep the bar by itself and make the EQII button stand alone.

Lantis

07-28-2010, 08:07 PM

Looking at the addition of the SC amount in merchant windows make me think of something:Since the last two expansions, we've been seeing an increasing amount of items requiring payment in "alternate" currency. By that I mean Marks, Seals, etc...It would be nice if there was a way to quickly determine how much of said alternate currencies you have whenever looking at a merchant window. Since that would impact an even larger portion of the userbase than SC does, I think this should be looked at. I realise that the main problem there is that you seem to regularily add new forms of alternate currencies over expansions and live events, so just adding them to merchant windows would be tricky. Something worth thinking about for in the future (unfortunately I don't have any suggestion as to how this could be done).

Malacha

07-28-2010, 08:09 PM

Ok, gonna do like several others and post my thoughts after starting a new character on Test to check out the new UI. My thoughts:<ul><li>I like the red... its different, and one of my favorite colors, particularly when darker like that. Its a very nice change from the same old blue that so many companies use.</li><li>The new character window is very nice, but I agree, remapping it to C is a bad choice. After nearly 6 years, its going to be hard to break the P/I habit. There's no reason why you have to remap/rename the windows. Persona window works quite well.</li><li>The experience bar... I don't mind that it stretches all the way across, I don't even mind the extra buttons. What I mind is that the top of it is uneven... I am a bit OCD in that I really like all my windows to line up perfectly.. I am not a fan of rounded edges or "stepped" height windows. Now, I'm a little bit weird in the fact that I use ProfitUI not for click-to-cure (I literally never click them) nor the auto-attack bar (tho I like that bit) but mostly because I like the way everything FITS together. All the edges are straight, straight corners, boxes, rectangles and many are even uniform in size (or are easily adjusted). The new experience bar just makes it difficult for someone like me, who likes nice sharp edges to line things up, to find a place for everything... the chat box just doesn't fit against it unless you make it minuscule so you can't even read anything, the hot bars also don't fit well. NOW, that being said, don't make it bigger (taller), I feel its big enough. Maybe you could move all the buttons to one side, so the chat window can sit on top of that "bump" neater, with the remainder having space you can stick hotbars.</li><li>Bags... i think the bag window is way too big! Even on my 24 inch monitor, 6 4-slot bags took up a huge chunk of real estate on my screen, and RIGHT SMACK in the middle of it. The worst part was, when you open all the bags, they go on top of the character screen right over the actual bag bar, so when I picked up the harvesting quest and was given the harvesting bag to put stuff in, I found it frustrating to swap bags due to the overlap.</li></ul>Overall, I like the new UI much more than the old one. While it still has what I find to be annoying rounded corners on everything, I think it looks slick and the new help windows are far more noticeable and written well (tho I wish they had included arrow keys on the "How to get around" one... some of us use those too!). I am pretty sure I'll be sticking with Profit provided it is still working, just because its aesthetics are more appealing to me, but I can see alot of new people sticking with the default UI instead of running to find a custom one on their first day.

TaleraRis

07-28-2010, 08:16 PM

I use the default UI now with only EQ2Maps as my lone add-on.The xp bar is horrible. I know the keyboard commands for all of those buttons that I really care to open. I use my mouse very rarely in this game and I'm a heavy keyboard player. That is just added clutter and junk to me. If you won't let us have the old bar back, at least let us detach that crap on the side and get it out of our faces. When it's shrunk down, the xp section is tiny and the buttons are still huge. It's absolute crap.The red is horrible. I'm a heavy crafter and I dread having to look at that color the entire time I'm crafting.The POIs on the map are too large. I haven't play enough to comment on the ROIs yet.I think the idea of showing Marketplace items in vendor windows and showing SC there is a horrible idea. We're your paying subscribers. We know how to find the Marketplace and if we were at all interested, we would look there.I'm completely turned off by the Battlegrounds button. I'm not interested, and I don't care if it remembers the tab I left it on. Call it "Zones" or something but as a non-PVPer, the current title offends me.There are two things I *do* like. I like the inclusion of the compass in the mini-map. I like that all windows unlock in F10, although not all are showing what they are when you scroll over, so it's hard to tell exactly what you're moving.However, regardless of the couple of positives, this UI will assure I am no longer a default UI user. I will be finding a mod to get this worthless junk off my screen as soon as one is available.Edit: I do like the tutorial information as well.

isest

07-28-2010, 08:16 PM

Rothgar

07-28-2010, 08:25 PM

<cite>Hellswrath@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote>I want to know if this will be on all servers or just the EQ2X ones. If all, then I would like to voice my extreme dislike of that idea. The only way I want to see this happen on current servers is if they change their minds and make the current servers integrated with EQ2X.Yes it will be on all servers.On that same vein, get rid of the giant SC button, for the love of all that is holy. Talk about bad taste. It isn't hard to find SC or the marketplace as it is now. There is already plenty of in-game advertising for it. Please show some restraint and class here.I can't make that decision.</blockquote>

Rothgar

07-28-2010, 08:29 PM

<cite>Vadex@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>For over 10 years I have stuck by and defended the EQ franchaise through all its ups and downs. I know I can mod the SC items off the UI but this blatent money grab attempt has cross the line. You can't be so ignorant that you think that making free to play servers will kill all the new population going to the "legacy" servers. Within months all old servers will be ghost towns except for the raiding "elite" and you slowly pushing them out as it is. Anyone with half a brain knows that casual players are any MMO's money maker, microtransactions kept in the background made your company money. This will kill the game, I honestly think Your company doesn't even care because they will move to the next cash cow game. Quality will keep your playerbase, This will kill it. My only hope is for a decent game to come from a company that cares.</blockquote>There's no constructive feedback here about the user-interface. I don't want to ask the mods to start deleting posts in this thread, but we really need to keep this focused on UI feedback. I respect your opinion and there are definitely other threads where you're welcome to debate this.

FearDiadh

07-28-2010, 08:31 PM

I played with it on test copy. I liked it. I would like it better if you would add click-to-cure and an auto attack bar. I would have no need of third party add-ons at that point. IMO that is the way it should be.edited spelling

Aganon

07-28-2010, 08:37 PM

Rothgar,I can live with most of the other changes but I absolutely hate that experience bar. I can promise you I will turn it off on all of my characters which basically means the current UI will have been WAY more beneficial and useful to me than the new UI. I understand your desire to promote SC everywhere, but do it elsewhere and leave the exp bar alone. The exp bar in the current UI is perfect. Not okay, not simply usable, but actually perfect. There is absolutely no reason to screw with it.And please don't tell people to look at aftermarket mods as a solution to newly created UI problems. For UI enhancements, aftermarket solutions are great, but telling people to look for third party help to fix horrible UI implementation is the equivalent of car dealers telling car buyers if they want round tires instead of square tires, go buy their tires from a tire store. In other words, it is extremely condescending and insulting.When you make changes to something that has been in place for a long time, the first thing you should ask yourself is, "How will this improve the customer experience?" In this case, the exp bar will not improve customer experience at all. Your goals and motivation for the change are not focused on your existing player (aka: customer) base, but rather your own personal interests. That is a bad business decision and I hope you come to realize this before forcing it on customers who do not want it.-

Hellswrath

07-28-2010, 08:43 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Hellswrath@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote>I want to know if this will be on all servers or just the EQ2X ones. If all, then I would like to voice my extreme dislike of that idea. The only way I want to see this happen on current servers is if they change their minds and make the current servers integrated with EQ2X.Yes it will be on all servers.On that same vein, get rid of the giant SC button, for the love of all that is holy. Talk about bad taste. It isn't hard to find SC or the marketplace as it is now. There is already plenty of in-game advertising for it. Please show some restraint and class here.I can't make that decision.</blockquote></blockquote>Thanks for the reply, Rothgar. I pretty much assumed that you wouldn't be able to get rid of the SC button on your own. I'm just hoping that all the negative feelings about it make it to those who can affect a change. That's all I can ask and why I'm willing to take the time to give feedback.Most of my other feedback has already been stated here. I think integrating click-to-cure is necessary, since the game content pretty much requires it in the end-game. Since the game requires it, it should be supported by the default UI. Just my 2 cp on the issue. I also love the addition of the ROI on the map for quests. First saw it in WAR and absolutely loved it while thinking "I wish EQ2 had this!" Glad to see it finally added.

Eriol

07-28-2010, 08:44 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>We aren't considering adding new things like re-ordering the group window until we fix the current changes. I'm not saying its not a good idea or anything, just that its a new idea and we need to fix the other issues first.</blockquote>You need to re-read your own post history. "New idea" eh? Not exactly: (post date of November 3rd, 2009)<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=461996#5152863" target="_blank"><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></a><blockquote>It was interesting to me to come across this post today. We've been wanting to move towards a multiple-quest tracking system for a couple of years and finally decided to start working on it recently. This should be done in time for the expansion and GU55 content.Some of the other things you mentioned are also on our "to-do" list but not as high priority as some of the other things we're currently working on. I always love making UI improvements and recognize we can do a lot more in that area, so I'm looking forward to more changes like these in the future.</blockquote>This was posted late last year. PLENTY of time before these changes you were making here. You DID implement the multi-quest tracking in the SF expansion. And you knew BEFORE that expansion about the desire for group windows moving (that's in the OP of the thread you responded to, on the same page). You CAN'T claim this is a "new idea" or that some other developer responded. It was you, you knew about it back then, and you back-burnered it.

Anestacia

07-28-2010, 08:44 PM

I understand that the goal here was to clean up the UI. It was effective and over all looks good. However, I really can not understand why everytime something is changed or added it feels like it is being half done. I realize there are mods for click-to-cure and auto attack bars, but with them being so in demand why should we have to turn to mods to do it? I realize mods are used heavily in other games. I am currently playing WoW again and I have quite a few nice add ons. However, the difference between WoW and EQ2 is the accesibility of those mods. You download Curse and from there it pretty much takes care of you. EQ2's is often a long grueling process for those of us that are not comfortable getting in and tweaking our files. I have a few mods but it took me forever to figure out how to get them working and once I finally did I was too afraid to change anything up afterwards. I realize to a developer and some of the players it comes with ease but there are many other players too that find it overwhelming and therefore miss out.If SOE is not willing to spend the time to add these key features to the game then people have to rely on the modders. I have often wondered why EQ2 does not have something along the lines of Curse. I realize that Curse is not a Blizzard thing there for I am not suggesting that SOE be responsible for something like this. I just am wondering Is it that the playerbase just isnt big enough to generate interest or is there something else preventing something like this for EQ2? I'm not being snarky with that comment I just am geniuley curious.

Yimway

07-28-2010, 08:49 PM

<cite>Anestacia wrote:</cite><blockquote>I understand that the goal here was to clean up the UI. It was effective and over all looks good. However, I really can not understand why everytime something is changed or added it feels like it is being half done. I realize there are mods for click-to-cure and auto attack bars, but with them being so in demand why should we have to turn to mods to do it? </blockquote>Let me spell it out in terms they might take action on.Add Click-to-Cure and Auto attack timing, and some of us will actualy use it and look at the gaudy xp bar and giant SC buttons.If however, you can't add the core features players demand, we'll mod it and get that tacky stuff out of there.Adding the features players need to the default UI will increase the exposure of your marketplace, not doing so is counter productive to your company's goals.

Thundy

07-28-2010, 08:54 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vadex@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>For over 10 years I have stuck by and defended the EQ franchaise through all its ups and downs. I know I can mod the SC items off the UI but this blatent money grab attempt has cross the line. You can't be so ignorant that you think that making free to play servers will kill all the new population going to the "legacy" servers. Within months all old servers will be ghost towns except for the raiding "elite" and you slowly pushing them out as it is. Anyone with half a brain knows that casual players are any MMO's money maker, microtransactions kept in the background made your company money. This will kill the game, I honestly think Your company doesn't even care because they will move to the next cash cow game. Quality will keep your playerbase, This will kill it. My only hope is for a decent game to come from a company that cares.</blockquote>There's no constructive feedback here about the user-interface. I don't want to ask the mods to start deleting posts in this thread, but we really need to keep this focused on UI feedback. I respect your opinion and there are definitely other threads where you're welcome to debate this.</blockquote>I can offer some constructive feedback, I hope you take it into consideration but it's probably too late.1) The new color is terrible. The blue was so nice and cool and relaxing on the eyes. The red is angry and makes it feel like my screen is out of tint. Of course, this will just get modded out.2) The XP bar is also horrible for many reasons; the size, the SC button (I know, I know), the multitude of buttons that are available already through default hotkeys. But that's ok, it will just get modded out.See a theme here? My beef isn't that there's mods that will need to be re-made to accomodate those two points, it's that your time was mostly wasted. Instead of spending your valuable time on things that would be of use to people (C2C and AA bar), you overhauled a bunch of things no one really cared about, while leaving out things people would actually appreciate and use.I am extremely disappointed in this waste of time when so many other things need addressed.

DuneWarrior

07-28-2010, 08:57 PM

<cite>Enma@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zaktull@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes, we've added station cash to this window because of another key feature that you may not have noticed yet. Certain Marketplace items may now appear in a merchant list of it coincides with what the merchant is selling. For example, a horse merchant might also display a couple of marketplace horses (as an example) and you would be able to purchase those items from the merchant rather than having to use the Marketplace window. The SC amount at the bottom of the window makes it easier to see if you have the funds to purchase those items.*Puts on flame retardant suit*</blockquote>Of course that wont happen on the Legacy/Subscription based Servers Right?</blockquote>You have to be joking, thats one thing that will be on all servers. Its inside the marketplace window the only way to get rid of it is to remove it with a mod.</blockquote>LOL no i was trying to be facetious ... ill try harder next time, because like you i know this is the bottom line, the F2P <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

DuneWarrior

07-28-2010, 09:04 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Fair enough, I appreciate your honesty especially in regards to SC. The only question I have is why can't we have an option to just keep the old UI? I've been playing with the old UI for 6 years now and just really have learned to love it, and have wrung out functionality it wasn't meant to give (click to cure for example). Can you at least consider giving us an option to keep the old UI if that is our desire?</blockquote>It's just not that easy unfortunately. We've modified textures, UI files and code in order for the changes to work. If you were to keep the old UI files, they would most likely not work with the new code. If you were to keep the old textures, there would be a lot of bugs with image alignment and new elements that weren't visible.</blockquote>So your saying - since this is where we should provide feedback for oyu to take into account, according to your own comment - that while like 99% of all the feedback with regards to the xpbar is ... remove the buttons, make it smaller, give us the old xp bar back its not doable because of all the changes ? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> so basically ... yeah ill let that one sit for awhile.Beyond that, Roth.. your talking about Design by committee, you could have done something simple like 3 months ago before starting this 'facelift' like .. Post a topic in Look and feel going 'Name the top 2 things in the UI you would like changed' and then worked that list with all the others in SoE... THAT is taking your playerbase into account etc.Just my 2cents - turning into dollars soon iim sure

Runewind

07-28-2010, 09:07 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Fair enough, I appreciate your honesty especially in regards to SC. The only question I have is why can't we have an option to just keep the old UI? I've been playing with the old UI for 6 years now and just really have learned to love it, and have wrung out functionality it wasn't meant to give (click to cure for example). Can you at least consider giving us an option to keep the old UI if that is our desire?</blockquote>It's just not that easy unfortunately. We've modified textures, UI files and code in order for the changes to work. If you were to keep the old UI files, they would most likely not work with the new code. If you were to keep the old textures, there would be a lot of bugs with image alignment and new elements that weren't visible.</blockquote>Two things. First, I find it VERY hard to believe that you can't give us an option to use the old UI. Modders could mod the old UI and give it to us so developers should certainly be able to do the same. However, if this is the case and it's the new UI or the old UI I strongly suggest you go back to the old UI considering the vast majority of people on this thread have expressed dislike for the new one and very few have said they like it.

Jonaroth

07-28-2010, 09:08 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Anestacia wrote:</cite><blockquote>I understand that the goal here was to clean up the UI. It was effective and over all looks good. However, I really can not understand why everytime something is changed or added it feels like it is being half done. I realize there are mods for click-to-cure and auto attack bars, but with them being so in demand why should we have to turn to mods to do it? </blockquote>Let me spell it out in terms they might take action on.Add Click-to-Cure and Auto attack timing, and some of us will actualy use it and look at the gaudy xp bar and giant SC buttons.If however, you can't add the core features players demand, we'll mod it and get that tacky stuff out of there.Adding the features players need to the default UI will increase the exposure of your marketplace, not doing so is counter productive to your company's goals.</blockquote>What this guy said.

Leko

07-28-2010, 09:16 PM

Can we get an Auto Attack Bar?

Yarg2

07-28-2010, 09:28 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>There's no constructive feedback here about the user-interface. I don't want to ask the mods to start deleting posts in this thread, but we really need to keep this focused on UI feedback. I respect your opinion and there are definitely other threads where you're welcome to debate this.</blockquote>Ok, constructive feedback; How bad is this new XP all in one bar layout going to screw up players who don't play with their XP bar showing?I know I've read in the past many RPers state that they hide the XP bar fulltime, and while I am not an RPer, as soon as I hit 90/250 I hid my XP bar as well. (That whole minimal windows thing you siad this US is trying to push)Now with this new change, hiding the XP bar will also hide the EQ2 button, along with every other button that you now added to the XP bar. So I must ether lose access to all that, or replace a tiny <1sq inch button in the corner of the screen with a huge bar covering nearly the entire width of the screen to keep access to what I used to have. How does that remove clutter?Also on the resolution thing, while designing for 1024x768 in this day is a little much to expect, designing around 1280x1024 is a bit optomistic as well. Why? 1280x800 is a very common resolution that tons of laptops use. And while my desktop PC has all the room in the world (And even it is starting to feel cramped with these endless UI additions) my 2nd computer, a laptop with a 1280x800 screen,does not, and with as many hotbars as a lvl90 character needs to properly access their skills and such nowadays, it forces me to push stuff way closer to the middle than I like.Not to mention screens like vendors and the mender and such don't even fit properly on the sceen vertically by default, and are a pain to resize due to going off both the top and bottom of the screen. You should seriouly look at downsizing your UI design to fit properly on 800 or less vertical lines (really even a bit less if you dont run fullscreen) for the many people with 1280x800 laptops. (Now that this game is 6+ years old it is not unreasonable whatsoever to be running it on virtually any laptop above a netbook)

circusgirl

07-28-2010, 09:38 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Enma@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sp while everyone is busy complaining about the XP bar and the color. You should really take a look at the MERCHANT window.<img src="http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm165/ShadowMunkie/test_mender.png" />Notice anything different on it? SC 650 (Thats right Station Cash is displayed)</blockquote>Yes, we've added station cash to this window because of another key feature that you may not have noticed yet. Certain Marketplace items may now appear in a merchant list of it coincides with what the merchant is selling. For example, a horse merchant might also display a couple of marketplace horses (as an example) and you would be able to purchase those items from the merchant rather than having to use the Marketplace window. The SC amount at the bottom of the window makes it easier to see if you have the funds to purchase those items.*Puts on flame retardant suit*</blockquote>I appreciate that you seem to understand that this is going to be an unpopular and unwanted decision (hence the flame retardant suit) and I'm betting that this showing up is more likely you following orders than anything else. However, I still have to call BS. The answer you gave us is not a justification, its a rationalization. I loathe the idea of putting SC items on in-game merchants in the first place (I think it crosses a line as I can no longer pretend it doesn't exist), but even if we set that objection aside this is a BS decision.We have had more currencies besides coin for a very, very long time. These currencies are used to buy things from merchants. By the logic you stated above, each of these should also display in the merchant window<ul><li>status</li><li>Seals of Arad</li><li>Mark of Manaar</li><li>City Tokens</li><li>Far Seas Trading Company Tokens</li><li>Void Shards</li><li>Tokens of E'Ci</li><li>Epic Tokens of E'Ci</li><li>monk pebbles</li></ul><div>...and so on</div><div></div><div>Status is already a true currency in that there are no physical items attached to it, and as it serves an almost identical in-game function to SC (namely, the purchasing of fluff items), this clearly has every bit as much of a right to be in the merchant window as SC does. People have been asking for you to change the tokens from items to currency for a long time as well, and this seems like a very appropriate time to do it (and hey, there's a change we actually want). Now, of course, if we were to add all these tokens to the merchant window things would get ungainly very quickly, so what I would suggest is that you only show the tokens/SC/status/other alternate currencies for merchants where it is appropriate to do so. If I visit a SC merchant, then I see the amount of SC I have, but otherwise I just see coin. If I visit the void shard armor vender, then I see how many void shards I have, but otherwise they're invisible, etc.</div><div></div><div>For the record, I still loathe the idea of SC items on Norrathian merchants.</div><div></div><div>I also hate to say it, but the fact that you're doing this combined with the timing of the announcement makes me extremely unhappy with SOE. You've redone the UI, but without any of the features we actually wanted (click to cure, autoattack bar) and included a change that would normally induce a 70+ page thread full of extreme rage. The only reason you haven't gotten an extremely violent reaction out of this is the fact that you've very neatly distracted your most vocal players with the Everquest II Exchange announcement. It's a very neat corporate strategy: we'll be so busy fighting to preserve the way we play the game itself that we'll let this slip by unchallenged. I can't really blame you for having good strategists, but I still feel obliged to call you out for it. </div>

DuneWarrior

07-28-2010, 10:06 PM

<cite>Vinka@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote> It's a very neat corporate strategy: we'll be so busy fighting to preserve the way we play the game itself that we'll let this slip by unchallenged. I can't really blame you for having good strategists, but I still feel obliged to call you out for it. </blockquote><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Calling them out... lets see... how about this for a timeline, on the 22nd of june, they accidentially slipped and posted almost to a letter most of the GU57 update notes that are now on test (was posted yesterday as well).Most of that GU which we all know are on a 3month cycle now have been in developement since April i would estimate, at the same time i would also wager if you look at the whole GU that most of it is preparation to F2P/EQ2X since it all caters towards the newplayer experience, which we all know is now F2P/EQ2X.Now ... follow this ... on the 27th of Jun, 5 days later, Smoke states we wont go free to play.. He also yesterday stated that he on the 27th of jun didnt know, so he had to respond teh way he did ... yup call them out <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Sedenten

07-28-2010, 10:08 PM

I logged over to test to try out this new UI. Here's my first impressions:Preface: Compared to the old default UI, this new one is much fresher. I can see it as a welcome facelift for newer players joining the game. On the flip side of the coin, older school players who have always stuck by with the default UI are not going to like many of the changes. * At first the huge experience bar threw me off, but I can see how it could be worked into something useable. It still leaves very little room for current default UI users who have everything set the way they're accustomed--it's a drastic change. I'd like to see what this other idea is for that particular UI piece.* I really didn't like the automatic remapping of the hotkeys, but I can see what direction the change is going towards. I didn't check the keymaps, but was crouch at least remapped to something or removed entirely? If it isn't currently mapped with the changes, it should be.* The addition of Station Cash to the merchant window and items for Station Cash to the merchants in-game is something I really do not agree with. Having the Marketplace split off from the rest of the game (along with LON) was a good compromise for the anti-RMT folks out there. Now it's creeping into the game, and that's bound to cause some dissent. I strongly recommend that Sony lean away from this avenue and keep the Marketplace where it belongs--as a single button somewhere on the UI that opens into it's own window. As it stands, UI modders can probably "mod out" the addition of the SC coin from the market window, but they cannot "mod out" the additional items alongside the normal vendor items. Please do not integrate the Marketplace into the current in-game UI elements. * I understand the idea of a fresher look making the default UI more appealing. What I don't think was considered is the primary reason the majority of players end up going with other UI mods--more functionality. Even after the changes, there's none of the most popular functions built into this newer UI--click-to-cure, autoattack bar, more robust broker window, options. I would urge those in charge of the development of this default UI to consider adding some of the most popular features of the custom UI's to the default UI. That alone would make the default UI a more viable option for the old players as well as the new.

Swarfega

07-28-2010, 10:38 PM

Looks like a difference between "cant" and "wont" and who is saying it.When players ask what "can" or what "will" be done they are generally asking smoeone from SoE what those at SoE can or will do.With the SC button it really looks like a "wont" in terms of SoE and a "cant" from Rothgar personally. Looks like Smoke has put the hard word on.

Travleer33

07-28-2010, 10:41 PM

<cite>Jonaroth wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Anestacia wrote:</cite><blockquote>I understand that the goal here was to clean up the UI. It was effective and over all looks good. However, I really can not understand why everytime something is changed or added it feels like it is being half done. I realize there are mods for click-to-cure and auto attack bars, but with them being so in demand why should we have to turn to mods to do it? </blockquote>Let me spell it out in terms they might take action on.Add Click-to-Cure and Auto attack timing, and some of us will actualy use it and look at the gaudy xp bar and giant SC buttons.If however, you can't add the core features players demand, we'll mod it and get that tacky stuff out of there.Adding the features players need to the default UI will increase the exposure of your marketplace, not doing so is counter productive to your company's goals.</blockquote>What this guy said.</blockquote>Concur.

aislynn00

07-28-2010, 10:43 PM

Two requests, one simple, one less so:1) Please remove the cap on the number of buffs displayed in the buff bar. That is to say, when I'm raiding, I would like to be able to see every single buff sitting on me, not just the first, what, 30 (haven't actually counted them, but no matter how large you make the window, it just stops showing buffs once a certain number is reached).2) Please allow UI mod'ers to display beneficial buffs a mob maintains on itself separate from detrimental effects placed on it by players. For instance, I really don't give a rat's rear how many DoT's or debuffs have been stacked on that raid boss, but I most certainly do care whether the buff he put on himself that spawns hard-hitting dumbfire pets every time someone strikes him is up or not.

Rothgar

07-28-2010, 10:48 PM

<cite>Aganon wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rothgar,I can live with most of the other changes but I absolutely hate that experience bar. I can promise you I will turn it off on all of my characters which basically means the current UI will have been WAY more beneficial and useful to me than the new UI. I understand your desire to promote SC everywhere, but do it elsewhere and leave the exp bar alone. The exp bar in the current UI is perfect. Not okay, not simply usable, but actually perfect. There is absolutely no reason to screw with it.And please don't tell people to look at aftermarket mods as a solution to newly created UI problems. For UI enhancements, aftermarket solutions are great, but telling people to look for third party help to fix horrible UI implementation is the equivalent of car dealers telling car buyers if they want round tires instead of square tires, go buy their tires from a tire store. In other words, it is extremely condescending and insulting.When you make changes to something that has been in place for a long time, the first thing you should ask yourself is, "How will this improve the customer experience?" In this case, the exp bar will not improve customer experience at all. Your goals and motivation for the change are not focused on your existing player (aka: customer) base, but rather your own personal interests. That is a bad business decision and I hope you come to realize this before forcing it on customers who do not want it.-</blockquote>How will the new XP bar improve the customer experience?New players will have an easier time finding important game windows such the character screen, inventory, bags, marketplace, etc. I also don't buy into your analogy. We aren't selling you square tires that don't function. Its more a matter of preference, like you buy a car and don't care for the rims so the dealer tells you that you can buy aftermarket rims. If you read through this thread you'll find people who do like the XP bar. Its just a matter of preference, not functionality.However, I've just finished modifying the XP bar to have two modes; a normal mode and a "mini" mode. If you set the bar to mini-mode, it'll hide the 5 navigation buttons on each side of the XP bar. Sorry, but the EQII and SC buttons are still there. This isn't something we can make a concession on, I checked. This should however be a good compromise towards making the XP bar a little smaller. Here's a screenshot in mini-mode.<img src="http://www.gregsplace.com/blogimages/xp-bar.png" width="432" height="57" />

Deson

07-28-2010, 10:52 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aganon wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rothgar,I can live with most of the other changes but I absolutely hate that experience bar. I can promise you I will turn it off on all of my characters which basically means the current UI will have been WAY more beneficial and useful to me than the new UI. I understand your desire to promote SC everywhere, but do it elsewhere and leave the exp bar alone. The exp bar in the current UI is perfect. Not okay, not simply usable, but actually perfect. There is absolutely no reason to screw with it.And please don't tell people to look at aftermarket mods as a solution to newly created UI problems. For UI enhancements, aftermarket solutions are great, but telling people to look for third party help to fix horrible UI implementation is the equivalent of car dealers telling car buyers if they want round tires instead of square tires, go buy their tires from a tire store. In other words, it is extremely condescending and insulting.When you make changes to something that has been in place for a long time, the first thing you should ask yourself is, "How will this improve the customer experience?" In this case, the exp bar will not improve customer experience at all. Your goals and motivation for the change are not focused on your existing player (aka: customer) base, but rather your own personal interests. That is a bad business decision and I hope you come to realize this before forcing it on customers who do not want it.-</blockquote>How will the new XP bar improve the customer experience?New players will have an easier time finding important game windows such the character screen, inventory, bags, marketplace, etc. I also don't buy into your analogy. We aren't selling you square tires that don't function. Its more a matter of preference, like you buy a car and don't care for the rims so the dealer tells you that you can buy aftermarket rims. If you read through this thread you'll find people who do like the XP bar. Its just a matter of preference, not functionality.However, I've just finished modifying the XP bar to have two modes; a normal mode and a "mini" mode. If you set the bar to mini-mode, it'll hide the 5 navigation buttons on each side of the XP bar. Sorry, but the EQII and SC buttons are still there. This isn't something we can make a concession on, I checked. This should however be a good compromise towards making the XP bar a little smaller. Here's a screenshot in mini-mode.<img src="http://www.gregsplace.com/blogimages/xp-bar.png" width="432" height="57" /></blockquote>Can I turn off the SC button too? Also, can't log in to check at the moment but is it possible to have just the eq2 button?Edit:Misread. I see you cant' do anything about the SC button but is it possible to at least have the separate eq2 button?

Rothgar

07-28-2010, 10:56 PM

<cite>Eriol wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>We aren't considering adding new things like re-ordering the group window until we fix the current changes. I'm not saying its not a good idea or anything, just that its a new idea and we need to fix the other issues first.</blockquote>You need to re-read your own post history. "New idea" eh? Not exactly: (post date of November 3rd, 2009)<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=461996#5152863" target="_blank"><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></a><blockquote>It was interesting to me to come across this post today. We've been wanting to move towards a multiple-quest tracking system for a couple of years and finally decided to start working on it recently. This should be done in time for the expansion and GU55 content.Some of the other things you mentioned are also on our "to-do" list but not as high priority as some of the other things we're currently working on. I always love making UI improvements and recognize we can do a lot more in that area, so I'm looking forward to more changes like these in the future.</blockquote>This was posted late last year. PLENTY of time before these changes you were making here. You DID implement the multi-quest tracking in the SF expansion. And you knew BEFORE that expansion about the desire for group windows moving (that's in the OP of the thread you responded to, on the same page). You CAN'T claim this is a "new idea" or that some other developer responded. It was you, you knew about it back then, and you back-burnered it.</blockquote>If you expect me to communicate as much as I have been in this thread you need to cut me some slack on wording. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> What I meant by "new idea" is that we can't start implementing new features for GU57 this late. The point of this thread is to get feedback on existing changes that are planned for GU57 and to find bugs. I've said a few times that I'm not against the idea of Click-to-Cure in the default UI, but do we have time to get it done this late for GU57? Probably not. That's all I meant by new ideas/features.

Thundy

07-28-2010, 11:01 PM

Nice compromise on the XP bar, it's appreciated I'm sure.

Cynith

07-28-2010, 11:05 PM

isest

07-28-2010, 11:09 PM

<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aganon wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rothgar,I can live with most of the other changes but I absolutely hate that experience bar. I can promise you I will turn it off on all of my characters which basically means the current UI will have been WAY more beneficial and useful to me than the new UI. I understand your desire to promote SC everywhere, but do it elsewhere and leave the exp bar alone. The exp bar in the current UI is perfect. Not okay, not simply usable, but actually perfect. There is absolutely no reason to screw with it.And please don't tell people to look at aftermarket mods as a solution to newly created UI problems. For UI enhancements, aftermarket solutions are great, but telling people to look for third party help to fix horrible UI implementation is the equivalent of car dealers telling car buyers if they want round tires instead of square tires, go buy their tires from a tire store. In other words, it is extremely condescending and insulting.When you make changes to something that has been in place for a long time, the first thing you should ask yourself is, "How will this improve the customer experience?" In this case, the exp bar will not improve customer experience at all. Your goals and motivation for the change are not focused on your existing player (aka: customer) base, but rather your own personal interests. That is a bad business decision and I hope you come to realize this before forcing it on customers who do not want it.-</blockquote>How will the new XP bar improve the customer experience?New players will have an easier time finding important game windows such the character screen, inventory, bags, marketplace, etc. I also don't buy into your analogy. We aren't selling you square tires that don't function. Its more a matter of preference, like you buy a car and don't care for the rims so the dealer tells you that you can buy aftermarket rims. If you read through this thread you'll find people who do like the XP bar. Its just a matter of preference, not functionality.However, I've just finished modifying the XP bar to have two modes; a normal mode and a "mini" mode. If you set the bar to mini-mode, it'll hide the 5 navigation buttons on each side of the XP bar. Sorry, but the EQII and SC buttons are still there. This isn't something we can make a concession on, I checked. This should however be a good compromise towards making the XP bar a little smaller. Here's a screenshot in mini-mode.<img src="http://www.gregsplace.com/blogimages/xp-bar.png" width="432" height="57" /></blockquote>Can I turn off the SC button too? Also, can't log in to check at the moment but is it possible to have just the eq2 button?Edit:Misread. I see you cant' do anything about the SC button but is it possible to at least have the separate eq2 button?</blockquote>Rothgar did you know the current bar is bugged. Each time I log in the bar resizes itself to the full lenght of the screen.I will say I like a lof of the new ui. The crisp part of it. For my spell casting icons and all. I have always loved the default ui. I have to say I might look for a mod now, and I never needed one before.However please give us back the blue background. I am glad you making some of the changes that a lot of us has asked for, but please considered changing the skin background color back to the blue it was before.Also I want to comment on the SC buton. I get the part you are saying that this is the way its going to be on all servers. Well I thought the F2P was just in alfa at this stage, can you not take take that back to the commitie, and let them know that we know how to find that shop. Really to me it says were doing it because of free to play, and thats the way a lot of us view it. As long as I can resize that bar and keep it resized and out of the way im ok with the xp bar, however the way it is now every time is switch characters on test, and or log in I have to shrink it down and its downright frustrating.

KerowynnKaotic

07-28-2010, 11:42 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>*snipped* However, I've just finished modifying the XP bar to have two modes; a normal mode and a "mini" mode. If you set the bar to mini-mode, it'll hide the 5 navigation buttons on each side of the XP bar. Sorry, but the EQII and SC buttons are still there. This isn't something we can make a concession on, I checked. This should however be a good compromise towards making the XP bar a little smaller. Here's a screenshot in mini-mode.<img src="http://www.gregsplace.com/blogimages/xp-bar.png" width="432" height="57" /></blockquote>Oh that's much better, Thank you!. I, personally, can ignore the SC button, in general it doesn't bother me over much, anyway.But, I do have to wonder is the size you are currently displaying the Max or Min size? Can it be shrunk down a bit more?I'm used a Exp bar that was about this: [ ------------] big. So, the current size & even the posted one above is still a bit of a HUGE mofo of a UI piece. And, I'd really like to throw in my hopes for a different color for the background (again). Probably too late to work up the functionality like I'd like to see given to the background color, that of the same scheme of how we choose chat channel colors, but it would be nice if we could get a lighter color alternative to choose from. Bring back the blue for a temporary choice along with the new dried blood red color.

slippery

07-28-2010, 11:55 PM

The AA window seriously needs right click > spend x points options. It is the worst window in the game. I've actually not played characters because I know I have to respec their aa's and don't want to spend 30 minutes hurting my hand with the ridiculous amount of mouse movement and repetitive clicking. That confirm box is absolutely ridiculous. If you are lucky you have to click 500 times to spend 250 AA, and you have to go back and fourth to the confirmation box, and that is assuming you don't get that dumb your aa's are still being updated error.

Zenadina

07-28-2010, 11:56 PM

If your going to make the exp bar that big, how about having one of the options be a Stat bar. In my custom UI i usually have a Stat bar at the bottom of the screen, with selectable stat and run speed, money and so on. Just a idea, and prob to late in the process to do something that big<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />

Cyliena

07-28-2010, 11:57 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>How will the new XP bar improve the customer experience?New players will have an easier time finding important game windows such the character screen, inventory, bags, marketplace, etc. I also don't buy into your analogy. We aren't selling you square tires that don't function. Its more a matter of preference, like you buy a car and don't care for the rims so the dealer tells you that you can buy aftermarket rims. If you read through this thread you'll find people who do like the XP bar. Its just a matter of preference, not functionality.However, I've just finished modifying the XP bar to have two modes; a normal mode and a "mini" mode. If you set the bar to mini-mode, it'll hide the 5 navigation buttons on each side of the XP bar. Sorry, but the EQII and SC buttons are still there. This isn't something we can make a concession on, I checked. This should however be a good compromise towards making the XP bar a little smaller. Here's a screenshot in mini-mode.<img src="http://www.gregsplace.com/blogimages/xp-bar.png" width="432" height="57" /></blockquote>Nice that it's smaller, but I still won't use it with any extra buttons on it. I just want an experience bar, nothing more. I don't need anything shoved into my face when I just want to check what my experience is at (and yes, I do buy things from time to time, and no, that button being there would not make me more likely to make an impulse buy).I'm sure that's not your decision and you have to keep the SC button on it, so I don't fault you. Thanks for working on making a compromise for people. I'm sure that you're tired of hearing us whine about this change by now. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />It's simply a shame that what could've been a very sleek experience bar is marred by having Free Realms game dock type buttons attached to it.edit: clarified my non-sensicle sentence.double edit: I need sleep.

Rothgar

07-29-2010, 12:01 AM

<cite>Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Oh that's much better, Thank you!. I, personally, can ignore the SC button, in general it doesn't bother me over much, anyway.But, I do have to wonder is the size you are currently displaying the Max or Min size? Can it be shrunk down a bit more?I'm used a Exp bar that was about this: [ ------------] big. So, the current size & even the posted one above is still a bit of a HUGE mofo of a UI piece. And, I'd really like to throw in my hopes for a different color for the background (again). Probably too late to work up the functionality like I'd like to see given to the background color, that of the same scheme of how we choose chat channel colors, but it would be nice if we could get a lighter color alternative to choose from. Bring back the blue for a temporary choice along with the new dried blood red color.</blockquote>Haha, how did you know that the UI was stained red with the blood of developers? lolThat screenshot is not the minimum size. The minimum width is 300 pixels when in "mini" mode and wider in "normal" mode.

Rothgar

07-29-2010, 12:04 AM

<cite>slippery wrote:</cite><blockquote>The AA window seriously needs right click > spend x points options. It is the worst window in the game. I've actually not played characters because I know I have to respec their aa's and don't want to spend 30 minutes hurting my hand with the ridiculous amount of mouse movement and repetitive clicking. That confirm box is absolutely ridiculous. If you are lucky you have to click 500 times to spend 250 AA, and you have to go back and fourth to the confirmation box, and that is assuming you don't get that dumb your aa's are still being updated error.</blockquote>I totally agree with you. The first thing I want to do is add an option to disable the confirmation window when you spend a point. This alone will help a lot and I should be able to get it in by GU57. The best option would be to cache your changes until you hit an "Accept" button. However, this change will take a lot more work due to the way that the system validates which AA's are available for you. If we don't actually apply them to your character as you buy them, we'll have to rewrite the way we validate the available options. So this won't happen in the near future, but I can definitely get the confirmation option in there.

TalisX1

07-29-2010, 12:06 AM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>slippery wrote:</cite><blockquote>The AA window seriously needs right click > spend x points options. It is the worst window in the game. I've actually not played characters because I know I have to respec their aa's and don't want to spend 30 minutes hurting my hand with the ridiculous amount of mouse movement and repetitive clicking. That confirm box is absolutely ridiculous. If you are lucky you have to click 500 times to spend 250 AA, and you have to go back and fourth to the confirmation box, and that is assuming you don't get that dumb your aa's are still being updated error.</blockquote>I totally agree with you. The first thing I want to do is add an option to disable the confirmation window when you spend a point. This alone will help a lot and I should be able to get it in by GU57. The best option would be to cache your changes until you hit an "Accept" button. However, this change will take a lot more work due to the way that the system validates which AA's are available for you. If we don't actually apply them to your character as you buy them, we'll have to rewrite the way we validate the available options. So this won't happen in the near future, but I can definitely get the confirmation option in there.</blockquote>Removing the confirmation window would help alot. Thanks.Silat