BALLANCE THE BG's PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Archive]

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Peppto

07-12-2010, 02:19 AM

God freaking dangit! How many bg's have I been into that are so damnright 1 sided that the points end in like 30 to 700?? Well, a lot is the answer to that.Two main problems here.1: we don't get a healer and the other side gets 2!2: we get a healer, but we're fighting an entire group of people from a PVP server. Like, get real here, nagafen players live on PVP, they are skilled pvp players and any nagafen player that's made it past lvl 40-60 should likely be able to take 2 players from another server with lesser skill/pvp oriented gear.Another problem being that, not only are they pitting a full nagafen group against players from non PVP, they're pitting them against a bunch of RANDOM players from non pvp whom have likely never grouped together.I'm just getting so [Removed for Content] tired of seeing BG's won or lost, entirely based on the roll of the dice, like who get's the more stacked group, who has a full group from naga VS a group with no healer and 2 wizards with 7k health.IMO, set not only, gear tiers, but well, just plain automatic organization of classes in general. not saying the group should be perfect with a chanter and a bard and a w.e, but don't forget to give us a healer and give the other team TWO, common sense SOE, PLEASE/THX!!

wayfaerer

07-12-2010, 02:26 AM

I was in a Ganak on Sat night against a guy who was 12-boxing. That was pretty unbalanced.I get your problem, but trying to balance all of that will make the BGs hardly spawn.You can improve your chances a bit by getting a couple of guildies and run together. Once you've got some BG gear your little team will really be able to swing matches and then you will be on the winning team a lot more.

niteowl53

07-12-2010, 04:01 AM

There are some things that could be done to improve upon this. Let's start with a 45 second timer, giving everyone who que'd up 20 seconds to respond or they don't get in, the balance of that, being 25 seconds, the computers go to work balancing the teams out, those that came together stay together, anyone else is fair game and may be auto switched during that time. Since it is healers that most everyone is upset about, have it search for a balance of healers first to auto switch, to balance them out first. I have also been told that people will que up for a match, decline, then wait a certain period of time and hopefully they get there right before the end get a token, or sometimes token(s) and the match is over. how many times have you seen people log right in at the very last few seconds.If you decline to go in, you should not be able to go in later after it has begun. Only people who have NOT declined should be allowed to enter after the match has started. I know there could be tons of reasons people show up at the end. But I am seeing this more and more. they do absolutely nothing but log in get tokens and game over. It is increasingly worrysome that it's the same people I see doing it over and over.Can something also be done about letting us que up for each individual bg, i can que up for one or three but not two. There are times I only want ganak and den, but not gears, I have to do one or all, no choice to do just the two I want.I see a lot of talk on the forums about warping, have seen it done many times, and not just from players on naggy. I don't know how you lag your way from one flag, grab it and lag your way back to the other flag and score. There are means to purposely lag yourself to do things. If there is a problem where the computers can see a person is having repetitive "lag" issues, there should be a "penalty box" like ice hockey, if you will. Those that go faster than is possible, and those with severe "lag" issues", go to the box 10 seconds. They will either correct the problem, or stop doing whatever it is they are doing. If you are truly that laggy to play bg, you should resolve your porblems before going there.One last item, Just now in gears, 2 vs 6 no one else joined our team. After numerous kills, we just decided to sit in our home base, and let the clock run out. Thye other guys wouldnt even pick up the relic any more trying to get us to come out so they could kill us. Is there any way, you can put a vote thing on there for a UNANIMOUS voiting that the match can be conceded. So, in gears it would take 6 votes or how ever many were on your team, in my case 2 votes, to just concede the loss. Can we do that please. It is excruciatingly long, to sit there and wait for the clock to time out.

monte9

07-12-2010, 09:29 AM

Some good ideas. Conceded option could be abused though. How about an auto balance. After 60 seconds of one side having way more then another, it auto balances the game?

pinba11

07-12-2010, 10:13 AM

<cite>Phia@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I was in a Ganak on Sat night against a guy who was 12-boxing. That was pretty unbalanced.I get your problem, but trying to balance all of that will make the BGs hardly spawn.You can improve your chances a bit by getting a couple of guildies and run together. Once you've got some BG gear your little team will really be able to swing matches and then you will be on the winning team a lot more.</blockquote>Seen this guy many times over the weeked , easy tokens for me but [Removed for Content] lol

Avirodar

07-12-2010, 10:26 AM

<cite>Xenar@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Phia@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I was in a Ganak on Sat night against a guy who was 12-boxing. That was pretty unbalanced.I get your problem, but trying to balance all of that will make the BGs hardly spawn.You can improve your chances a bit by getting a couple of guildies and run together. Once you've got some BG gear your little team will really be able to swing matches and then you will be on the winning team a lot more.</blockquote>Seen this guy many times over the weeked , easy tokens for me but [Removed for Content] lol</blockquote>It's simple if you think about it.A -LOT- of Ganak matches go the distance (20 mins) these days. At the end of the 20 minutes you may get 1 token for your time, or 3. Yes, a good share of matches are also won, but I see plenty finish due to time limit.Wether the "person" in mention, is 1 player controlling 12 toons, or 2 players, or 5 players, or 12 players... TBH they are very [Removed for Content] smart.Why? In 20 minutes they could lose 6+ Ganak matches, and gain 6+ tokens in 20 minutes.I have been in so many 20 minute ganak matches, and only walked away with 1 or 3 tokens for my time. The "bend over and lose fast" method stands to yield up to six times the reward of fighting tooth and nail for your tokens.Go figure, eh?

Rahatmattata

07-12-2010, 10:47 AM

<cite>niteowl53 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have also been told that people will que up for a match, decline, then wait a certain period of time and hopefully they get there right before the end get a token, or sometimes token(s) and the match is over. how many times have you seen people log right in at the very last few seconds.If you decline to go in, you should not be able to go in later after it has begun. Only people who have NOT declined should be allowed to enter after the match has started. I know there could be tons of reasons people show up at the end. But I am seeing this more and more. they do absolutely nothing but log in get tokens and game over. It is increasingly worrysome that it's the same people I see doing it over and over.Can something also be done about letting us que up for each individual bg, i can que up for one or three but not two. There are times I only want ganak and den, but not gears, I have to do one or all, no choice to do just the two I want.</blockquote>A lot of times I'll que up for BG, and if it gives me a Gears match I decline until something not Gears pops up.

Ranja

07-12-2010, 11:04 AM

<cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>niteowl53 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have also been told that people will que up for a match, decline, then wait a certain period of time and hopefully they get there right before the end get a token, or sometimes token(s) and the match is over. how many times have you seen people log right in at the very last few seconds.If you decline to go in, you should not be able to go in later after it has begun. Only people who have NOT declined should be allowed to enter after the match has started. I know there could be tons of reasons people show up at the end. But I am seeing this more and more. they do absolutely nothing but log in get tokens and game over. It is increasingly worrysome that it's the same people I see doing it over and over.Can something also be done about letting us que up for each individual bg, i can que up for one or three but not two. There are times I only want ganak and den, but not gears, I have to do one or all, no choice to do just the two I want.</blockquote>A lot of times I'll que up for BG, and if it gives me a Gears match I decline until something not Gears pops up.</blockquote>They should just have a lock-out. After so many minutes no knew people can join the BGs. This would eliminate people entering BGs at the last second.Also I agree the group generator should be smart enough to at least put one healer on each team Nothing sucks more going into Gears with no healer - knowing you have to play hot potato with the relic.And why I am at it. What is up with Druids in BGs? They are nearly unkillable. The other day I did a Ganak match where my team was absoutely slaughtering the other team. So bad that the other team had virtually given up except for the duird carrying our flag. The last 5 minutes was literally all 12 of my team beating on the one flag holder. No one was helping him. We never killed him. 12 people all piled on top of the druid unloading everything we all had and his power never dropped below 90% and his health never got below 50%.

Wytie

07-12-2010, 11:18 AM

<cite>Peppto@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>2: we get a healer, but we're fighting an entire group of people from a PVP server. Like, get real here, nagafen players live on PVP, they are skilled pvp players and any nagafen player that's made it past lvl 40-60 should likely be able to take 2 players from another server with lesser skill/pvp oriented gear.Another problem being that, not only are they pitting a full nagafen group against players from non PVP, they're pitting them against a bunch of RANDOM players from non pvp whom have likely never grouped together.</blockquote>Thats not an excuse.On Nagafen we have just as many if not more terriable BG players. I have seen many many threads from you guys saying just that.So which is it? lolOk but seriously lol if you think they should use your home server as a means for ballance, if it wasnt for us the BG's would be dead except for weekends.All the other stuff, this is why you get tokens for losing. Sony cant make the BG's perfect, they just screw'd us with makinf toughness required to have a chance.

monte9

07-12-2010, 11:28 AM

I still think the point to token ration is the best idea. It fixes tons of issues. Example: for every 100 points you get 1 token for. So on a close match, each side would get a reward on the effort they put in.The 12 box guy couldn’t take advantage of the this crap, because if he can’t even get 100 points he gets nothing. This also forces people to actually play the [Removed for Content] BG, because if they can’t get 100 points you don’t get crap.It also fixes the frustration of fighting real hard for a long period of time, getting real close and still getting only 1 token…..

lollipop

07-12-2010, 11:58 AM

double post

Balrok

07-12-2010, 12:00 PM

<cite>Peppto@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>Two main problems here.1: we don't get a healer and the other side gets 2!2: we get a healer, but we're fighting an entire group of people from a PVP server. Like, get real here, nagafen players live on PVP, they are skilled pvp players and any nagafen player that's made it past lvl 40-60 should likely be able to take 2 players from another server with lesser skill/pvp oriented gear.Another problem being that, not only are they pitting a full nagafen group against players from non PVP, they're pitting them against a bunch of RANDOM players from non pvp whom have likely never grouped together.</blockquote>1. True, but I imagine this will always be a work in progress and a balance between setting up BGs quickly vs fairly.2. hahaha, that cracked me up. You should just edit that to say pre-made vs pickup, cause you're asking SoE to code assumed skill balance. Are you asking to make sure Nagafen players are evenly split? lol Won't happen, especially when most of the BG activity is driven by Nagafen anyway.Keep at it, determination and not quiting from frustruation is what separates the good PvPers from the rest.

lollipop

07-12-2010, 12:01 PM

I have seen tons of bad Naggy players. Tons so saying they are pvp is not an excuse. DOnt get me wrong there are around 7 good naggy players that put up a good fight and sometimes I win sometimes loss. But more so then not the naggy people I see are scrubs hideing from open world pvp for easy gear.

lollipop

07-12-2010, 12:03 PM

Also on the boxing thing, I dont like it but not agesnt the rules. Long as they dont hurt anyone else. I remember asking Rothgar if it was ok for me to box 3 toons and my friend 3 toons in Klak. We would lose of course! But was better getting tokens for three toons and since was just two of us we didnt hurt anyone else being matched with us. I was told it was not agenst the rules and was ok. Though we only did it once.....god we got owned lol.

NardacMM

07-12-2010, 12:20 PM

<cite>monte9 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I still think the point to token ration is the best idea. It fixes tons of issues. Example: for every 100 points you get 1 token for. So on a close match, each side would get a reward on the effort they put in.</blockquote>I think we should get 10 tokens for just logging into EQ each day. And a bonus token if you actually leave your guild hall. Come to think of it, why do we even have to run the battleground for gear? It should be free. We do pay a subscription fee each month, after all.My son's soccer league implemented a rule whereby, if a team wins by more than 3 goals, they lose the game. There was an uproar because that is not how real life works. They reversed the rule after being flooded by angry letters. You don't get rewarded in life for effort: You get rewarded by succeeding. You DO have to put in effort to succeed, though.. I think that's where you may be confused..When i first started playing BG with my alt, I got destroyed with my casual PvE gear and lack of experience. So i kept working at it, bought some new gear, and amassed enough tokens to upgrade the crappy stuff. Now I'm able to make a positive contribution each time... And the more BGs I run, the better I get. That is far more rewarding than being given 7-15 tokens per game and buying everything within 2 months.I agree that there should never, ever be two healers in one group and none in the other. I also agree that players should be ranked based on kills, damage, heal output, etc and then sorted accordingly.....But I do not agree with getting everything for free! The number of tokens given per round is fine. The cost of the gear is fine. You're spending 5-20 minutes to get 1-3 tokens. There is no problem.

Yimway

07-12-2010, 12:29 PM

<cite>Peppto@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>Like, get real here, nagafen players live on PVP, they are skilled pvp players and any nagafen player that's made it past lvl 40-60 should likely be able to take 2 players from another server with lesser skill/pvp oriented gear.Another problem being that, not only are they pitting a full nagafen group against players from non PVP, they're pitting them against a bunch of RANDOM players from non pvp whom have likely never grouped together.</blockquote>I don't agree with this at all. We do pre-mades from our PVE raid guild and pwn many nagafen players. I've been in SD runs where I joined other PVE raid guilds who also do extremely well.What I find is players who spend alot of time gearing their toon, understand the combat mechanics to minute detail, and are familiar with how to min/max control breakouts, run speed, and other game mechanics due well in BGs.People who don't posess these skills or have not spent the time to understand their toon to this level of detail do not.This mysterious skill is by no means a pvp only mindset. Now there is some pvp gear that is pretty nice, but there is some pve raid gear that is equally as nice.

Wytie

07-12-2010, 12:38 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>What I find is players who spend alot of time gearing their toon, understand the combat mechanics to minute detail, and are familiar with how to min/max control breakouts, run speed, and other game mechanics due well in BGs.People who don't posess these skills or have not spent the time to understand their toon to this level of detail do not.</blockquote>This is the only area for skill in this game. Everything else is just pushing buttons and winning gear.

Peppto

07-12-2010, 12:45 PM

Not editing it to say pre-made vs random, the thing is, naggy has been in the PVP game for a long time, if you are on naggy and don't know how to outpvp a non pvp player, you should not be on naggy, period, especially if you've managed to make it to 50-90, seriously, re-roll your server. And what I meant was not to pit a full naggy group vs a buncha random's, if you're gonna pit a full naggy group, then pit them against a full group from another server, or a full group from naggy, and if naggy players are in randoms, split them up a bit, pretty simple stuff.And to that one guy that replyed saying, 'they should let us vote to concede the match if it is unballance' I've thought of that myself, but look at this scenario, a group of people run bg's or 1 person boxing a group, they repeatedly concede, 40 tokens in 10 mins np. Ya, sorry to say but SOE will not allow that.Honestly, give each group 1 healer, if 1 group gets more than 1, not a big deal, but having a group of folks that can't heal themselfs versus a group of people that can, unless their healer is perhaps mentally handicaped and unable to properly heal, then 9 times outta 10, the group with the healer is gonna win, especially in a small instance like gears.Oh, just gonna toss in one thing, make all the tokens the same please.. even if I still need 90 for one piece of armor, it would be 100X easier, cuz then every bg match would bring me closer to the piece of armor I want.One final thing, those last minute joiners are part of what makes bg ballanced, do not weed them out, even if they declined the match, cuz I been in the situation where I queue up and start chowin down on a bag of chips, match pops up, I let the time run down cuz I don't wanna jam my crumby hands into my keyboard right that second, but I still want to get into the soonest availible match, it's hard enough to get tokens as it is, without having to wait around more. Also when you're in a gears match, it's near the end, the game is close, and 3 people go LD or 1 guy boxing 3 people goes LD, w.e the case, if no one else can join, your team just lost the match <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Wytie

07-12-2010, 01:00 PM

<cite>Peppto@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>naggy has been in the PVP game for a long time, if you are on naggy and don't know how to outpvp a non pvp player, you should not be on naggy, period, especially if you've managed to make it to 50-90, seriously, re-roll your server.</blockquote>You would think that but after playing here and on another pvp server for like ever, this is far from the case most times.Some of our servers WORST pvp'rs only BG, because its so easy and safe and always rewards you with tokens.See in real pvp all you get for losing is a cool revive location with perma immunity, if you were a naggy scrub which do you think would be easier?

Uinael_Guk

07-12-2010, 01:18 PM

<cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Peppto@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>naggy has been in the PVP game for a long time, if you are on naggy and don't know how to outpvp a non pvp player, you should not be on naggy, period, especially if you've managed to make it to 50-90, seriously, re-roll your server.</blockquote>You would think that but after playing here and on another pvp server for like ever, this is far from the case most times.Some of our servers WORST pvp'rs only BG, because its so easy and safe and always rewards you with tokens.See in real pvp all you get for losing is a cool revive location with perma immunity, if you were a naggy scrub which do you think would be easier?</blockquote>That's pretty much what I expected so it's good to hear it come from a Naggy player. I always wondered why i've seen so many Naggy people in BG's when they play on a pvp server, but then I realized it's because they're probably not good enough to handle the full time pvp vs nasty players so they go to BG's where it's nice and safe and they can beat on the occasional PVE player who is new to BG's (though not many of those any more).The hardest competition i've faced are pre-made from top raiding guilds regardless of the server.

Ralpmet

07-12-2010, 01:40 PM

That's not true, my sk that's in all app 1's would destroy any t4 toon in this game, lol, and i take him into bgs to farm super easy tokens. I mean, I could sit on a WF 'cuss I'm from naggy, but i might only get 15 pvp tokens in an hour's work. BG's I win like 90-95% of the games I play, so the token payout is much greater than pvp. Sorry pvp, just not enough targets to kill.

Mary the Prophetess

07-12-2010, 01:50 PM

I really believe that a distinction should be made between T4 BG and T9 BG. What holds true for one is not necessarily the same for the other.I have seen exceptional players and I have seen less than exceptional players. The players from Vox and Nagafen have tended to be better geared than most PvE players up until recently, but that is just a very broad generalization. That gap is narrowing as time goes by though.PvP players seem to have their class and group group roles a little bit more refined early on as well, but then again I have seen very well played groups come in from blue servers as well.I have been playing in teir 4 BG since they launched and am having a lot of fun. However I have pretty much exhausted all the tier content and am ready to move on up. I am hesitating only because I fear that BG between T4 and T9 is an empty wasteland.Can anyone give me a heads up on what T5-T8 BG are like? PS:/bowsRalpmet, I look forward to the challenge of encountering you in T4. Shadowknights are pretty tough to take down, I'd like to see how I'd do. Is Ralpmet your character's name? I am Innis (lvl 39 Berserker). Up to now I have done ok (at least I haven't embarrassed myself). Look for me. Would be interesting to see how fast you could take me down.

monte9

07-12-2010, 01:59 PM

<cite>NardacMM wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>monte9 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I still think the point to token ration is the best idea. It fixes tons of issues. Example: for every 100 points you get 1 token for. So on a close match, each side would get a reward on the effort they put in.</blockquote>I think we should get 10 tokens for just logging into EQ each day. And a bonus token if you actually leave your guild hall. Come to think of it, why do we even have to run the battleground for gear? It should be free. We do pay a subscription fee each month, after all.My son's soccer league implemented a rule whereby, if a team wins by more than 3 goals, they lose the game. There was an uproar because that is not how real life works. They reversed the rule after being flooded by angry letters. You don't get rewarded in life for effort: You get rewarded by succeeding. You DO have to put in effort to succeed, though.. I think that's where you may be confused..When i first started playing BG with my alt, I got destroyed with my casual PvE gear and lack of experience. So i kept working at it, bought some new gear, and amassed enough tokens to upgrade the crappy stuff. Now I'm able to make a positive contribution each time... And the more BGs I run, the better I get. That is far more rewarding than being given 7-15 tokens per game and buying everything within 2 months.I agree that there should never, ever be two healers in one group and none in the other. I also agree that players should be ranked based on kills, damage, heal output, etc and then sorted accordingly.....But I do not agree with getting everything for free! The number of tokens given per round is fine. The cost of the gear is fine. You're spending 5-20 minutes to get 1-3 tokens. There is no problem.</blockquote>I understand where you are coming from, but I think there are many things you aren’t considering. First, nobody said anything about something for free. EQ is supposed to be a game, relaxing, fun not a job. When I go into a game and put tons of effort into something and get nothing, that is frustrating and what turns most people off at BG. Let’s take your own account. You started in BG had crappy gear and needed practice. How did you get the better gear? If you get nothing for losing, you will never be able to get that PvP gear to compete. There must be a way for people without stuff to get the stuff so they can compete.If we take your sons soccer game example. Each year, each team starts with only a pair of shorts. To get shoes, shirts, goals, nets, knee pads and stuff they need to win a game. Only winning a game will get you new equipment. Now your son just joined a new team that just started playing, his first game he goes against a team that has 50 wins. Then he looks at the game roster and the next 30 games are teams with 50 wins or more. See, the point.What the point system does is stop the leeching and force people to actually play the [Removed for Content] game. Who wants to waist that much of the time on the luck of the draw? Who knows who you will get in your group, how they will be quipped, or how bad they suck. So you wait hour or so for a pop on the 24 man game, for such a long game, the game is a close one, and losing and getting only 1 token. If you have the point system, the team with 700 gets 7 tokens and the team who was close with 678 still get 6 tokens. I don’t see how you are getting something for nothing, if anything it stops that. If you have one team with 700 and the other team just sitting in their base with afk’ers with 0 points. They 0 tokens.

Herme

07-12-2010, 02:16 PM

<cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite><blockquote>That's not true, my sk that's in all app 1's would destroy any t4 toon in this game, lol, and i take him into bgs to farm super easy tokens. I mean, I could sit on a WF 'cuss I'm from naggy, but i might only get 15 pvp tokens in an hour's work. BG's I win like 90-95% of the games I play, so the token payout is much greater than pvp. Sorry pvp, just not enough targets to kill.</blockquote>Only t4 SKs that give my pally a run for his money are Klap and Hauzerx. But I seriously doubt a sk with all app level spells will roll my pally in all mastered abilities 120+ AA. I've spent a ton of time doing quests and farming gear specifically to increase my survivability in BGs.And Innis, yes, you're a tough cookie to crack. I'm waiting until I have enough tokens to gear my pally up in t6 gear and then I'll move up there. From what I hear 30s is good, 50s are good, and 80-90s are heavily populated. I'm not moving up to t6 until I have 160 Aa and enough stored up tokens to get me the gear, and a few more masters, I'm only missing 3-4 from that tier right now.

NardacMM

07-12-2010, 02:38 PM

<cite>monte9 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I understand where you are coming from, but I think there are many things you aren’t considering. First, nobody said anything about something for free. EQ is supposed to be a game, relaxing, fun not a job. When I go into a game and put tons of effort into something and get nothing, that is frustrating and what turns most people off at BG. Let’s take your own account. You started in BG had crappy gear and needed practice. How did you get the better gear? If you get nothing for losing, you will never be able to get that PvP gear to compete. There must be a way for people without stuff to get the stuff so they can compete.If we take your sons soccer game example. Each year, each team starts with only a pair of shorts. To get shoes, shirts, goals, nets, knee pads and stuff they need to win a game. Only winning a game will get you new equipment. Now your son just joined a new team that just started playing, his first game he goes against a team that has 50 wins. Then he looks at the game roster and the next 30 games are teams with 50 wins or more. See, the point.What the point system does is stop the leeching and force people to actually play the [Removed for Content] game. Who wants to waist that much of the time on the luck of the draw? Who knows who you will get in your group, how they will be quipped, or how bad they suck. So you wait hour or so for a pop on the 24 man game, for such a long game, the game is a close one, and losing and getting only 1 token. If you have the point system, the team with 700 gets 7 tokens and the team who was close with 678 still get 6 tokens. I don’t see how you are getting something for nothing, if anything it stops that. If you have one team with 700 and the other team just sitting in their base with afk’ers with 0 points. They 0 tokens.</blockquote>I feel that in any given match, you can be new or poorly-geared and still win as long as you are grouped with good players. To this day, it doesn't matter how good I am.. if the other team has one of the uber rangers doing 1M damage or a tank with 500 toughness holding the flag, I'll probably lose.. If those guys are on my team, I'll probably win... I could un-equip all my gear and die 50 times and we'd still win. So there is lots of opportunity to get 3 tokens at the beginning.When i first started out with my T9 quested gear, I died a lot and did minimal damage. I still won more than half the matches b/c I was grouped with good players. Then I read the note in the forum that said BG crafted gear existed.. I added a few pieces of those, bought some stuff off the broker, and wrapped up some quests for Legendary gear. We do not start out with no cleats b/c when the BG match is done, we go back to our server and get upgrades the old fashioned way (through quests, raids, and the broker.)I think the biggest thing I take exception with is the ratio of 100 points = 1 token. That means you'd get up to 4 tokens for Ganak, 7 for Gears, and 15 for Smuggler's.. That's way too much. You'd have to win THREE smugglers (maximum 1 hour of effort) to have enough bottles for one piece of gear. If those ratios held true, I'd have purchased 5 pieces of Fabled gear this weekend alone. I could agree with something like a "bonus token" if you are within 100 pts on ganak, 200 on gears, or 300 on Den.. But one per 100 points is just way too high. It becomes a Fabled gear charity at that point...

monte9

07-12-2010, 02:55 PM

<cite>NardacMM wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>monte9 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I understand where you are coming from, but I think there are many things you aren’t considering. First, nobody said anything about something for free. EQ is supposed to be a game, relaxing, fun not a job. When I go into a game and put tons of effort into something and get nothing, that is frustrating and what turns most people off at BG. Let’s take your own account. You started in BG had crappy gear and needed practice. How did you get the better gear? If you get nothing for losing, you will never be able to get that PvP gear to compete. There must be a way for people without stuff to get the stuff so they can compete.If we take your sons soccer game example. Each year, each team starts with only a pair of shorts. To get shoes, shirts, goals, nets, knee pads and stuff they need to win a game. Only winning a game will get you new equipment. Now your son just joined a new team that just started playing, his first game he goes against a team that has 50 wins. Then he looks at the game roster and the next 30 games are teams with 50 wins or more. See, the point.What the point system does is stop the leeching and force people to actually play the [Removed for Content] game. Who wants to waist that much of the time on the luck of the draw? Who knows who you will get in your group, how they will be quipped, or how bad they suck. So you wait hour or so for a pop on the 24 man game, for such a long game, the game is a close one, and losing and getting only 1 token. If you have the point system, the team with 700 gets 7 tokens and the team who was close with 678 still get 6 tokens. I don’t see how you are getting something for nothing, if anything it stops that. If you have one team with 700 and the other team just sitting in their base with afk’ers with 0 points. They 0 tokens.</blockquote>I feel that in any given match, you can be new or poorly-geared and still win as long as you are grouped with good players. To this day, it doesn't matter how good I am.. if the other team has one of the uber rangers doing 1M damage or a tank with 500 toughness holding the flag, I'll probably lose.. If those guys are on my team, I'll probably win... I could un-equip all my gear and die 50 times and we'd still win. So there is lots of opportunity to get 3 tokens at the beginning.When i first started out with my T9 quested gear, I died a lot and did minimal damage. I still won more than half the matches b/c I was grouped with good players. Then I read the note in the forum that said BG crafted gear existed.. I added a few pieces of those, bought some stuff off the broker, and wrapped up some quests for Legendary gear. We do not start out with no cleats b/c when the BG match is done, we go back to our server and get upgrades the old fashioned way (through quests, raids, and the broker.)I think the biggest thing I take exception with is the ratio of 100 points = 1 token. That means you'd get up to 4 tokens for Ganak, 7 for Gears, and 15 for Smuggler's.. That's way too much. You'd have to win THREE smugglers (maximum 1 hour of effort) to have enough bottles for one piece of gear. If those ratios held true, I'd have purchased 5 pieces of Fabled gear this weekend alone. I could agree with something like a "bonus token" if you are within 100 pts on ganak, 200 on gears, or 300 on Den.. But one per 100 points is just way too high. It becomes a Fabled gear charity at that point...</blockquote>Point taken. I think we mostly agree. Yes it is still possible to win, but with it being frustrating that in the beginning you have really no way of helping out. So luck is how what decides if you get tokens or not, turns a lot of people off.Ya, 100 to 1 maybe to many. It was just an example. 200 to 1... or 250 to 1... Just so you have to do something to get a token and in the fights that are really close you still get a decent reward for your effort. This way the game will continue to the end. Get those last few points to get that one extra token, or the other team trying to stop them..

Peppto

07-12-2010, 04:46 PM

<cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite><blockquote>That's not true, my sk that's in all app 1's would destroy any t4 toon in this game, lol, and i take him into bgs to farm super easy tokens. I mean, I could sit on a WF 'cuss I'm from naggy, but i might only get 15 pvp tokens in an hour's work. BG's I win like 90-95% of the games I play, so the token payout is much greater than pvp. Sorry pvp, just not enough targets to kill.</blockquote>Ya, that is what I mean, naggy players might not be the best (maybe it's a psychological thing) but they win bg's. in my experience, our side wins about MAYBE 40-45% of the times, I get win streeks but more loss than win.On a side note, I also think bg's should allow one to stay in his or her guild chat, cuz if there's one thing I hate about bg's more than the 2 healer group vs no healer group, it's being in a guild that feels empty cuz people are constantly logging in and out and not saying anything, also, would like to talk to my guild when things goes bad in bg, points are 300 to 1350, I'd rather be sittin around chattin with my guild than doin nothin, and no, we can't win with those odds, it's never happened, just a buncha people going 'TAKE THE CENTER, TAKE THE CENTER!!!' then the other team wins within the next few mins.

Culsu

07-12-2010, 05:07 PM

<cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite><blockquote>Can anyone give me a heads up on what T5-T8 BG are like?</blockquote>T5 is actually a not too bad to play in, but getting into Den's is non existant as far as I can tell. Most of the time if I pick first available queue, I actually get into Ganak's instead of Gears.

Swarfega

07-12-2010, 07:13 PM

Rahatmattata

07-12-2010, 09:51 PM

<cite>Ranja wrote:</cite><blockquote>And why I am at it. What is up with Druids in BGs? They are nearly unkillable. The other day I did a Ganak match where my team was absoutely slaughtering the other team. So bad that the other team had virtually given up except for the duird carrying our flag. The last 5 minutes was literally all 12 of my team beating on the one flag holder. No one was helping him. We never killed him. 12 people all piled on top of the druid unloading everything we all had and his power never dropped below 90% and his health never got below 50%.</blockquote>And while we are talking about classes, inquisitors and shadowknights are doing way too much damage for a freakin healer and tank.

Peppto

07-13-2010, 01:12 AM

<cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ranja wrote:</cite><blockquote>And why I am at it. What is up with Druids in BGs? They are nearly unkillable. The other day I did a Ganak match where my team was absoutely slaughtering the other team. So bad that the other team had virtually given up except for the duird carrying our flag. The last 5 minutes was literally all 12 of my team beating on the one flag holder. No one was helping him. We never killed him. 12 people all piled on top of the druid unloading everything we all had and his power never dropped below 90% and his health never got below 50%.</blockquote>And while we are talking about classes, inquisitors and shadowknights are doing way too much damage for a freakin healer and tank.</blockquote>Oh boo, sure I been killed by enough sk's, but if anything it's the assasins/rangers that are OP in pvp, rangers most notably since they are ranged. gotta reluctantly agree on the warden in pvp, lol, not fury though, they cant hold power for crap compared to warden, oh, and make note that a warden cant hold power for crap if their group members are not near them, it's the proc on their myth that keeps their power up, the more in group, the better power they got. but don't hate on a warden cuz they can heall good, cuz ya know the way SOE is, they won't just knock down heals in PVP, they will kill the class entirely as a healer. And besides, a warden's offencive isnt the best in pvp imo, so they gotta have somethin.

Rahatmattata

07-13-2010, 09:01 AM

I should have mentioned I BG in T4. Sometimes I forget there's other tiers. Rangers pretty much suck at level 30. And I don't know why you started talking about wardens when I mentioned inquisitors topping damage parse.

Sapphy

07-13-2010, 03:36 PM

hmm, not sure how many people would actually agree with me on this obviously but I think distributing healers evenly in bgs only masks the primary problem, which is that healing/mitigation is too strong in bgs and significantly making matchups about class distribution then skill level. Healing is not only powerful in solo encounters (i see good healers consistently take on entire or more than group dps) it is exaggerated more in group v group encounters as well where they have the highest contributive benefits out of the classes... its easy to see this is the case when people are constantly worried about how many healers they have in gears and matchup success is more often than not tied to which group has the healer and which doesn't. People who say that they have weaknesses in group v group combat but not in solo combat I don't think are taking into account any realistic abilities the healers group has and visualizing a group v 1 scenario instead. Groups only retract from the other groups ability to take out the healer, which at top levels really needs the focus of the entire other groups dps. Anyways, I think that instead of distributing healers between groups, instead we should focus more on balancing the class out so it doesn't overcentralize combat around a certain class.