Broken: Assassin Detaunts as well as a few other classes too

[Katanalla]

<p><img src="http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg285/Katanallama/Untitled-1-1.jpg" width="754" height="147" /></p><p>Working as implemented!</p><p>Lol, was looking through ACT and saw this, pretty sure those detaunts are hitting higher than they were intended to, though if you wanna give us other scouts 500k evades it'd be kosher with me! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p><p>*edit:</p><p>-Not just assassins, confirmed! detaunts for others also seem to be incorrect.</p><p>-changed title as to not hurt Tool's feelings.</p>

[glowsintheda]

<p>Ranger Detaunts are screwed too, had a spec with 5 points in cat like reflexes and it was hitting for 1.7M threat reduction, was kind of ammusing</p>

[Neiloch]

<p>Yep can confirm it happens to rangers as well. Thinking what ever is doing this is screwing up hate gain as well. If not and they 'fix' this, i'm going to be seriously screwed in the 'not taking aggro' department. This bugged out evade is one of the few things keeping me from taking aggro outside of just not doing damage. That or because they like to tank swap on certain fights like toxx and rathgar, instead of jsut having someone snap and take the hit.</p>

[Rahatmattata]

<p>Get better tanks.</p>

[-=Hoss=-]

<p>yeah, don't know why you wrote that assassin detaunts are broken.  LOL did you really think it was only the one class?  Why didn't you look in act for other people's detaunts? </p><p>I thought you were a swashy anyway.</p><p>You don't know how much threat you actually have, so I don't know how you can make the judgement that the numbers are too high.  There are like 30 CAs that add to your threat and 2 that drop it.</p>

[Aule]

It's too high because the description of the detaunt is around -9k, and the effect of the detaunt is -500 to -700k (or more). Now how difficult is it to make the judgement that the numbers are too high?

[Neiloch]

<p>It works off anything that has a deaggro component for me. Not sure how it could be predator only though.</p><p>Looked at my parses, even with this bug serene Serenade still did more deaggro than evade.</p>

[Wytie]

<p>How else could a pred pull 50-80kish dps and not tank the mobs....</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>How else could a pred pull 50-80kish dps and not tank the mobs....</p></blockquote><p>Probably because the tanks are doing 40k+ with tons of transfers on them.</p>

[SageGaspar]

<p>With maxed hate mods 1 point of tank hate is worth 3 points of DPS aggro, that means a tank doing 15k DPS can hold against 45k DPS *without* counting hate procs/taunts (which are much more significant than people think this expansion, 20k taunt crits and huge taunt procs on every melee attack etc) and detaunt on the part of the DPS. This also does not count hate transfers which can be very very significant.</p><p>I'm thinking those numbers in the logs might not be accurate. Either that or there's some upward cap on how much hate you can lose at once, because it's possible for me to be above 1 on the hate meter and if dynamism was averaging several hundred thousand hate loss I'd be at negative aggro 24/7.</p>

[Terrius]

it's definatly odd, and makes me wonder if it's just a display bug or not. It's been happening for atleast a week or more.

[Neiloch]

If I do evade when I'm at about 30 on the hate meter, it will suddenly show 99 for a while, which seems to be some sort of reaction to suddenly being so low. Then after a couple of seconds I'll be back in the single digits working my way up.

[Terrius]

<p><cite>Neiloch@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>If I do evade when I'm at about 30 on the hate meter, it will suddenly show 99 for a while, which seems to be some sort of reaction to suddenly being so low. Then after a couple of seconds I'll be back in the single digits working my way up.</blockquote><p>I was actually noticing this alot last night, I could be at about 5 on threat meter hit evad and jump to 99 for a good 5 or more seconds. Maybe its so much Dehate that It makes the mob angry! <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[glowsintheda]

<p>I think when it shows 99 it is just because your actual total threat is a negative number at that point and the meter doesn't know what to do with it</p>

[Katanalla]

<p><cite>-=Hoss=- wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>yeah, don't know why you wrote that assassin detaunts are broken.  LOL did you really think it was only the one class?  Why didn't you look in act for other people's detaunts? </p><p>I thought you were a swashy anyway.</p><p>You don't know how much threat you actually have, so I don't know how you can make the judgement that the numbers are too high.  There are like 30 CAs that add to your threat and 2 that drop it.</p></blockquote><p>   One can judge if numbers are too high when Evade (same for all scouts) is doing 620,000 detaunt for one class, and then 5,000 to 10,000 for three to four other classes. I guess I am sorry in that I didn't look through every single name on ACT, I was more so comparing scouts- we don't have a ranger but I looked at every other scout. If you think it would add to the discussion, I'd be more than happy to post the rogues' or bards' dethreat sections where Evade was only doing 3,000-10,000.</p><p>   Actual threat amount we don't know, and may not know for some time. We do have a relative idea though, in regards to your personal hate on a mob compared to the current agro holder, which is still useful. As for the logic above, would you then say that rogues' and bards' detaunts are the ones that are bugged in that they aren't hitting for 100x their book value?</p><p>   I also appreciate your calm approach in reacting to this thread. If you're aware of other classes, it tends to be more professional and mature to add a note in a response as to what other classes may be affected.</p>

[Pervis]

<p>From what I can see, its limited to assassins, rangers, wizards and warlocks. Sorcerers are getting 200k detaunts from Synergism, though our own detaunts (Concussive for both and Cease for a wizard) are getting numbers that are within range of their listed value.</p><p>Even though it just seems wrong, I like it.</p>

[glowsintheda]

<p>As a former raider that now mainly does group stuff, before this happened it was almost painful to group with a group geared tank as even waiting till the mob was 5% down I would usually rip agro with in the first 2 CAs, since this happened it doesn't really matter how crappy the tank is, they can hold off me with no issues, heck my attack hawk can hold off me for as long as it lives.  Doesn't really matter since ranger has been shelved until such time as the class issues are addressed</p>

[Neiloch]

Really don't see this as being that big of a problem. Basically made something that was either very easy or annoying as hell a non issue. Wouldn't call it 'easy mode' since it wasn't hard or even challenging to being with. Like in Lewin's group scenario, its all about equipment for the tank, no amount of skill could make up for the problems he was having and still be able to perform peak DPS.

[Eveningsong]

<p><cite>Tariuss@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Neiloch@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>If I do evade when I'm at about 30 on the hate meter, it will suddenly show 99 for a while, which seems to be some sort of reaction to suddenly being so low. Then after a couple of seconds I'll be back in the single digits working my way up.</blockquote><p>I was actually noticing this alot last night, I could be at about 5 on threat meter hit evad and jump to 99 for a good 5 or more seconds. Maybe its so much Dehate that It makes the mob angry! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>The same thing happens on my wizard... the tank pulls something, I do absolutely nothing, or something minor so that my threat is minimal, then hit concussive -- suddenly I'm at 99 threat for several seconds.  Totally reproducible, it happens every single time.  But if I wait a while, nuke slowly and build up a small amount of threat and then hit concussive, it just reduces threat normally.  Its almost like if you don't have threat or not enough built up, the deduction actually wraps around into the negative somehow.</p>

[Neiloch]

Yep, on a short fight, or at the very start the amount seems ridiculous on Evade. But if a fight takes a while, and I use it at like 80 it will only go down to about 20 or 30. It's like its tweaked for extreme situations/fights. So opposed to being useful only for minimum or or middle ground type fights its also useful for extreme ones which is the way it should be. Opposed to being made for 'average' or lower fights thus making it almost useless on more intense ones. Before this 'bug' using my deaggros except evasive maneuvers were vain, desperate, failed attempts at losing any notable amount of aggro. Now if they would just balance ranger DPS for high end raiding instead of PUG's and casual raids we'd be all set lol.

[-=Hoss=-]

<p><cite>Katanallama@Permafrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>   One can judge if numbers are too high when Evade (same for all scouts) is doing 620,000 detaunt for one class, and then 5,000 to 10,000 for three to four other classes. I guess I am sorry in that I didn't look through every single name on ACT, I was more so comparing scouts- we don't have a ranger but I looked at every other scout. If you think it would add to the discussion, I'd be more than happy to post the rogues' or bards' dethreat sections where Evade was only doing 3,000-10,000.</p></blockquote><p>As was said, it appears to be the T1 DPSers (Sorcerers and Predators) getting the big detaunt bonuses.  For the other classes, it just doesn't matter as much.  I finally went and looked at some threat parses and found something pretty interesting.  The sorcerers are parsing almost twice as much dehate as they are DPS.  Meaning if its a 30k parse, there will be 60k threat per second decrease.  The predators (we only have assassins) are the opposite, we are losing about half as much threat as we parse.  If its a 30k parse, we'll have 15k in threat per second decrease.</p><p>Like neiloch said, for predators, it seems about right on longer fights, but its wonky on short fights.</p><p>What is dynamism btw?  That's where the sorcerers are getting all of thier dehate.</p><p>BTW, must have been something with LU56.  First night in Icy Keep, our warlock asked what was up with the threat meter because his was staying at 99 no matter what he did.  Everyone else said it was working fine.</p>

[glowsintheda]

<p>Dynamism is the proc from synergism, illy damage + dehate proc buff</p>

[Horgana]

<p>This is still definitely broken, i.e. it's some sort of bug. Today in Vigilant x2 we had 2 wizards in the same group, for one of them it procced about average 4k detaunt for dynamism and the other average 250k detaunt. Is it random, or is it some AA line that triggers the bug? I don't have the two wizard's AA specs handy to compare them.</p>

[Aule]

I think there's something about the character, maybe aa's or a conflict with some proc. Our wizard and warlock ate in the same group and getting dynamism from the same illy and te warlock's proc's for -600k and the wizard for -10k.

[Aule]

<p>edit: double post deleted</p>

[thajo]

<p>This started showing up the same exactly update and day that uncapped potency</p>