Is there a good dragon?

[Larassea]

<p>Hi,</p><p>does anybody know if there's a good Dragon among those, who we fight?</p><p>'Cause i wanna have a dragon mascot what name could I give it? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Many thanks!</p>

[Mikhail]

<p>The only dragon that i can think of being good is maybe Delahnus the Dauntless in the Vasty Deep Conservatory / Vestigial Cella, sure we fight her in Conservatory but she leaves and helps us kill the Ca'Na queen in Cella cuz she, Delahuns, gives us that uba buff</p>

[Morghus]

<p>Dragons in eq2 come in three flavors from what I can tell...</p><p>Evil and must be killed.</p><p>Neutral</p><p>Neutral and must be killed for being dumb enough to get in our way.</p><p>I don't believe there are or have been any genuinely 'good' dragons.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>The dragons, knowing that they're the first creatures to inhabit this planet, are extremely arrogant, and generally have the mental, magical, and physical power to dismiss any claims of needing our help. They wouldn't help us lesser beings unless they know that it would benefit them in some way.</p><p>We killed struck a deal with Nagafen (twice) because it was mutually beneficial to both of us. Naggy knew that we desired treasures, so he had us do all the dirty work of killing Darathar so that he couldn't hatch a prismatic egg and create another Kerafyrm. He tricked us, but no major harm done.</p><p><span >Delahnus the Dauntless in the Vasty Deep Conservatory originally fights us, thinking that we're just another group of adventurers who just want riches, and that we didn't care about the inhabitants who lived here. Then, after striking a deal with the queen of the Onaya to go kill the queen of the Ca'Na, a greater evil, Delahnus realizes that we aren't all that bad after all. She provides us with a buff that enables us to kill her and protect the Onaya better.</span></p><p>Some dragon spirits are willing to lend us knowledge because they can't really do anything anymore, what with being dead and all.</p><p>Most other dragons out there either have some ulterior motive behind our interactions with them, or are just put into the game as raid mobs to be killed just because they happen to be in the way (such as pretty much all of Veeshan's Peak) and we can kill them just because we can.</p><p>So... yeah, I wouldn't say there's ever been a dragon who worked with and helped out lesser beings because they realized that they could live and work together for the greater good or anything like that.</p>

[Garnaf]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The dragons, knowing that they're the first creatures to inhabit this planet, are extremely arrogant, and generally have the mental, magical, and physical power to dismiss any claims of needing our help. They wouldn't help us lesser beings unless they know that it would benefit them in some way.</p><p>We killed struck a deal with Nagafen (twice) because it was mutually beneficial to both of us. Naggy knew that we desired treasures, so he had us do all the dirty work of killing Darathar so that he couldn't hatch a prismatic egg and create another Kerafyrm. He tricked us, but no major harm done.</p><p><span>Delahnus the Dauntless in the Vasty Deep Conservatory originally fights us, thinking that we're just another group of adventurers who just want riches, and that we didn't care about the inhabitants who lived here. Then, after striking a deal with the queen of the Onaya to go kill the queen of the Ca'Na, a greater evil, Delahnus realizes that we aren't all that bad after all. She provides us with a buff that enables us to kill her and protect the Onaya better.</span></p><p>Some dragon spirits are willing to lend us knowledge because they can't really do anything anymore, what with being dead and all.</p><p>Most other dragons out there either have some ulterior motive behind our interactions with them, or are just put into the game as raid mobs to be killed just because they happen to be in the way (such as pretty much all of Veeshan's Peak) and we can kill them just because we can.</p><p>So... yeah, I wouldn't say there's ever been a dragon who worked with and helped out lesser beings because they realized that they could live and work together for the greater good or anything like that.</p></blockquote><p>Certainly not many EQ2 Dragons.  but back in EQ1 the Claws of Veeshan started at "distrustful of people" but (other than the outcast, Zlandicar, who was definitely evil) they were either good or neutral.  (I'd argue for Good on at least Yelinak's case, though HEAVILY distrustful)</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>Players had to work for thier faction to ally themselves with the dragons back then.  Only Bards who worshipped Veeshan didn't start out as KOS to them, but they were Dubious, the closest level to being KOS. Yelinak and the rest of the Claws of Veeshan were neutral and distrusting out outsiders just as much as any other dragon out there.</p><p>Klandicar was at least accepting and hospitable towards adventurers when you hailed him though.</p><p>Then there was the northern wing of the Temple of Veeshan, who outright killed ANYTHING who set foot inside it except for other dragons and drake servants who lived there.</p><p>The best way to describe them would still be neutral, but they at least allowed you a chance to ally yourselves with them.</p><p>After Kerafyrm woke up, I suppose you could call the 4 crusaders who were tasked to take over as the next 4 Warders if they were to ever capture Kerafyrm again, would probably count as Good toward outsiders by association that they have a task of sealing up something that threatens all of dragonkind.</p>

[Larassea]

<p>wow, many thanks for explaining, then i probably name it <span >Klandicar </span> <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Hm, are there any books or errata about Everquest 1 history ? I'd like to know more <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[shadowscale]

<p>the two in DoF i would consider good. just.... in a very unfortunate situation.</p><p>rather depressing actualy.</p><p>with any luck the CoV will be handled simular here as it was in EQ1, or whats left anyway. and they wont pull a VP.</p>

[Morghus]

<p>I wouldn't say that Klandicar was really much of a good dragon either, so much as a dragon that was so old and close to death that he had given up on the preening and self important attitudes younger members had. He even contemplates the dragon equivalent of suicide due to his age though they obviously do not call it that.</p><p>He wasn't really nice to us lesser creatures so much as he was apathetic due to being smart enough to realize that there was nothing he could do about us anyways and recognized that dragonkind is no longer, and hasnt been for a long time...the dominant race of Norrath.</p>

[Garnaf]

<p><cite>shadowscale wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>the two in DoF i would consider good. just.... in a very unfortunate situation.</p><p>rather depressing actualy.</p><p>with any luck the CoV will be handled simular here as it was in EQ1, or whats left anyway. and they wont pull a VP.</p></blockquote><p>Actually VP was portrayed fairly accurately here to the pre-revamp (consider that the revamp took place LONG after PoP ended) VP in EQ1, where there was no faction and they just plain out hated you.  (it's also accurate for Trakanon being in power, since Trakanon was always KoS to everyone).</p><p>I'm hoping the Claws of Veeshan (or whatever tatters at left of them, Kerafyrm's awakening hit them hard since he tore through Skyshrine and NToV, which means he effectively gutted the leadership of the claws, and killed anyone with the functional knowledge of how he was sealed originally) will be handled as sympatheic and at least neutral to outsiders.  Which was their stance in EQ1, they were the dragons that took Yelinak's side in the war, and the dragons the believed the best course of action when it came to the "Second Children of the Gods" (all non-dragons) was to wait and see, rather than to just kill them outright (the stance of Kerafyrm and the Ring of Scale)</p>

[Morghus]

<p>Nah, Trakanon being put in power of the Ring still didn't make much sense and had little to no explanation as to what caused it. Now granted him being one of the founding members and Jaled's friend in the past put him as being pretty high up on the list for succeeding him, but that was dashed by him starting the war with the Iksar, being turned undead/rotting, and being accused of doing all that to kill Jaled. That aside, I still find it highly suspect that he has Phara locked up in a cell right next to his lair....</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Larassea@Valor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>wow, many thanks for explaining, then i probably name it <span>Klandicar </span> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Hm, are there any books or errata about Everquest 1 history ? I'd like to know more <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>There are quite a few books out there that describe events that happened in EQlive, as well as in the 500 years that took place. You can start with the books from the sage in the mage towers in Freeport and Qeynos, as well as one in Kelethin, and go from there. There are books all over the game. You'd need to know where to look to find them though.</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Larassea@Valor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>wow, many thanks for explaining, then i probably name it <span>Klandicar </span><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Hm, are there any books or errata about Everquest 1 history ? I'd like to know more <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Klandicar couldn't be considered "good" by any streach of the imagination. If I was going to pick a dragon to call "good" I'd probably pick Woushi as the guardian of the Bloom of Growth for Tunare. While it might be a little questionable if Woushi was acting on her own motive, she did volunteer to guard the Bloom of Growth and kept it safe (until we adventurers killed her for it...). Other than killing poor unsuspecting, unfactioned adventurers teleporting to the Waking Lands (I miss serving a free buffet for Woushi with every port) Woushi never seemed to have anything to do with anything nefarious towards "the lesser races". Honestly, we didn't have a legitimate reason to kill Woushi in EQ2 unless your trying to say that the reason to kill Woushi was to prevent the void from making an attempt to corrupt her? Talk about twisted thinking!</p>

[Eveningsong]

<p>Yeah, I always wondered why Wuoshi was the final kill in the Emerald Halls.  Especially after speaking with them in the final stages of my diety quest and worshipping Tunare.  Of course, it didn't stop me... lol.</p>

[Morghus]

<p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Larassea@Valor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>wow, many thanks for explaining, then i probably name it <span>Klandicar </span><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Hm, are there any books or errata about Everquest 1 history ? I'd like to know more <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Klandicar couldn't be considered "good" by any streach of the imagination. If I was going to pick a dragon to call "good" I'd probably pick Woushi as the guardian of the Bloom of Growth for Tunare. While it might be a little questionable if Woushi was acting on her own motive, she did volunteer to guard the Bloom of Growth and kept it safe (until we adventurers killed her for it...). Other than killing poor unsuspecting, unfactioned adventurers teleporting to the Waking Lands (I miss serving a free buffet for Woushi with every port) Woushi never seemed to have anything to do with anything nefarious towards "the lesser races". Honestly, we didn't have a legitimate reason to kill Woushi in EQ2 unless your trying to say that the reason to kill Woushi was to prevent the void from making an attempt to corrupt her? Talk about twisted thinking!</p></blockquote><p>An excellent point. As I had said in a different topic, the role Wuoshi was meant to play seems either convulated or not even really thought of.</p><p>First of all, I am uncertain of Wuoshi's gender in the original game, but in EQ2 Wuoshi is repeatedly referred to as male which may or may not be an error in itself.</p><p>Also, with the prelude lore for EoF, they hint at Wuoshi planning something sinister all on his own, yet when he is visited for the Tunare deity quest he comes off as irate, but still dutiful to his role.</p><p>There is also the mentioning of the shadow men possibly corrupting him.</p><p>At the same time, fighting him in Emerald Halls shows that not only does he wield power akin to the Avatar of Growth itself, but that all the denizens of the hall are loyal enough to rush to his aid if not dispatched first.</p><p>This brings up all sorts of issues, was Wuoshi actually corrupt...was the entire Emerald Halls corrupt? Of course, with the new druid portal event coming to a close, we enter the Emerald Halls to see no Wuoshi, not even a mention of him which leads us to believe that either he is indeed dead as per the guild hall trophy.</p><p>Or conversely, that as I said in <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=454696" target="_blank">my old complain thread</a>, those in charge of the lore never go back and cross-check to make sure everything and everyone is accounted for aside from certain spotlight npcs. Because it is easier to 'drop a bridge' on non spotlight npcs than to give them proper closure.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>For the record, I never implied that Klandicar was "Good". I said he was "accepting and hospitable" towards lesser races. As Morghus explained, he's old and realizes that there's really just no point in him trying to hold up the same haughty attitude that the other dragons display over others. He's going to go jump into a giant firepit in the deepest parts of the Dragon Necropolis soon and embrace the sweet release of ritual suicide. Why should he care?</p><p>Wuoshi was regarded as a Male in EQlive too btw.</p>

[Larassea]

<p>hm, okay, i think i just draw a cute dragon and name him or her without reference to EQ2 xD</p><p>Many thanks for your good explanations and your effort! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Rezikai]

<p><cite>Larassea@Valor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>hm, okay, i think i just draw a cute dragon and name him or her without reference to EQ2 xD</p><p>Many thanks for your good explanations and your effort! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Actually I'm surprised no one mentioned Xygoz, while not exactly "good" persay he would be one that I think "relates" and has fun with mortals alot. He was known for taking the form of a High elven bard and playing songs and having a good time in taverns with humans.</p><p>When the Ethernaughts needed went to Kunark to speak to the Ring of Scale Xygoz was the one that lead them there, he and the female wood-elf bard Eylee traded songs and seemed much more casual with each other.</p>

[Iskandar]

<p>But... Xygoz isn't wearing any pants.... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" /> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Morghus]

<p><cite>Iskandar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>But... Xygoz isn't wearing any pants.... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" /> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p><img src="http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/Aranous/657f20e2.jpg" width="360" height="344" /></p>

[Kander]

<p><cite>Mikhail@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The only dragon that i can think of being good is maybe Delahnus the Dauntless in the Vasty Deep Conservatory / Vestigial Cella, sure we fight her in Conservatory but she leaves and helps us kill the Ca'Na queen in Cella cuz she, Delahuns, gives us that uba buff</p></blockquote><p>Delahnus the Dauntless is indeed a good dragon. She also is far more powerful than she let's on!</p><p>She has quite the history and powerful family, that we hope one day soon will be revealed!</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Kander wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Mikhail@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The only dragon that i can think of being good is maybe Delahnus the Dauntless in the Vasty Deep Conservatory / Vestigial Cella, sure we fight her in Conservatory but she leaves and helps us kill the Ca'Na queen in Cella cuz she, Delahuns, gives us that uba buff</p></blockquote><p>Delahnus the Dauntless is indeed a good dragon. She also is far more powerful than she let's on!</p><p>She has quite the history and powerful family, that we hope one day soon will be revealed!</p></blockquote><p>You mean she doesn't share the same attitudes as the other dragons? She's not simply helping the Onaya because it benefits her?</p>

[Foolsfolly]

<p>"Good" and "Evil" really are not appropriate words to use when classifying ancient entities. Benevolent or Destructive would be more for effective classifications. In the greater scheme of things, we're all acting out of self-interest. It's just that some of us are more interested in building things up, while others are more interested in lighting fires just so we can watch them burn~</p>

[Rijacki]

<p><cite>Morghus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Iskandar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>But... Xygoz isn't wearing any pants.... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" /> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p><img src="http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/Aranous/657f20e2.jpg" width="360" height="344" /></p></blockquote><p>*snicker* One of my favourite encounters.</p>

[shadowscale]

<p><cite>Kander wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Mikhail@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The only dragon that i can think of being good is maybe Delahnus the Dauntless in the Vasty Deep Conservatory / Vestigial Cella, sure we fight her in Conservatory but she leaves and helps us kill the Ca'Na queen in Cella cuz she, Delahuns, gives us that uba buff</p></blockquote><p>Delahnus the Dauntless is indeed a good dragon. She also is far more powerful than she let's on!</p><p>She has quite the history and powerful family, that we hope one day soon will be revealed!</p></blockquote><p>very glad to hear this, hopefuly the trend will contine now for some later dragons aside from just one family.</p>

[Aceshot]

<p><cite>Morghus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Larassea@Valor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>wow, many thanks for explaining, then i probably name it <span>Klandicar </span><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Hm, are there any books or errata about Everquest 1 history ? I'd like to know more <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Klandicar couldn't be considered "good" by any streach of the imagination. If I was going to pick a dragon to call "good" I'd probably pick Woushi as the guardian of the Bloom of Growth for Tunare. While it might be a little questionable if Woushi was acting on her own motive, she did volunteer to guard the Bloom of Growth and kept it safe (until we adventurers killed her for it...). Other than killing poor unsuspecting, unfactioned adventurers teleporting to the Waking Lands (I miss serving a free buffet for Woushi with every port) Woushi never seemed to have anything to do with anything nefarious towards "the lesser races". Honestly, we didn't have a legitimate reason to kill Woushi in EQ2 unless your trying to say that the reason to kill Woushi was to prevent the void from making an attempt to corrupt her? Talk about twisted thinking!</p></blockquote><p>An excellent point. As I had said in a different topic, the role Wuoshi was meant to play seems either convulated or not even really thought of.</p><p>First of all, I am uncertain of Wuoshi's gender in the original game, but in EQ2 Wuoshi is repeatedly referred to as male which may or may not be an error in itself.</p><p>Also, with the prelude lore for EoF, they hint at Wuoshi planning something sinister all on his own, yet when he is visited for the Tunare deity quest he comes off as irate, but still dutiful to his role.</p><p>There is also the mentioning of the shadow men possibly corrupting him.</p><p>At the same time, fighting him in Emerald Halls shows that not only does he wield power akin to the Avatar of Growth itself, but that all the denizens of the hall are loyal enough to rush to his aid if not dispatched first.</p><p>This brings up all sorts of issues, was Wuoshi actually corrupt...was the entire Emerald Halls corrupt? Of course, with the new druid portal event coming to a close, we enter the Emerald Halls to see no Wuoshi, not even a mention of him which leads us to believe that either he is indeed dead as per the guild hall trophy.</p><p>Or conversely, that as I said in <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=454696" target="_blank">my old complain thread</a>, those in charge of the lore never go back and cross-check to make sure everything and everyone is accounted for aside from certain spotlight npcs. Because it is easier to 'drop a bridge' on non spotlight npcs than to give them proper closure.</p></blockquote><p>I think old Wushi had an ultera motive and desired power, at least, that is how I interpritated the story about him taking over and protecting the bloom of growth.</p><p>I also think that Nagafan is, if not good, by no strech evil. He is a git, yes, but I think he has a greater role to play. Him and his eggs. I would say maybe Chaotic Good? Possible Chaotic Neutral? That is how I saw it.</p><p>DD I've seen as a bit of a tragic figure. We murder her wards, and attack her, she flies off, and we later help her retake the temple, but her wards, the Oynan, don't see her again. I just find that quite sad.</p><p>I don't think the dragon in icy keep is evil, just young and niave. We've tried to kill him a few times, so he is defensive.</p><p>Tranix I think is true neutral, with an intimacy for Deathtoll and protecting it, and by invading the sacred place, we must die.</p><p>Now, if we are onto the subject of Dragons. Tox, why are her wings handlike? And is she the mother of Darathar.</p><p>Khalen Dar. What killed him?</p><p>Waansu. Why did PC make him. How? And is he a threat to Odus.</p>

[Morghus]

<p><cite>Aceshot@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Morghus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Larassea@Valor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>wow, many thanks for explaining, then i probably name it <span>Klandicar </span><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Hm, are there any books or errata about Everquest 1 history ? I'd like to know more <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Klandicar couldn't be considered "good" by any streach of the imagination. If I was going to pick a dragon to call "good" I'd probably pick Woushi as the guardian of the Bloom of Growth for Tunare. While it might be a little questionable if Woushi was acting on her own motive, she did volunteer to guard the Bloom of Growth and kept it safe (until we adventurers killed her for it...). Other than killing poor unsuspecting, unfactioned adventurers teleporting to the Waking Lands (I miss serving a free buffet for Woushi with every port) Woushi never seemed to have anything to do with anything nefarious towards "the lesser races". Honestly, we didn't have a legitimate reason to kill Woushi in EQ2 unless your trying to say that the reason to kill Woushi was to prevent the void from making an attempt to corrupt her? Talk about twisted thinking!</p></blockquote><p>An excellent point. As I had said in a different topic, the role Wuoshi was meant to play seems either convulated or not even really thought of.</p><p>First of all, I am uncertain of Wuoshi's gender in the original game, but in EQ2 Wuoshi is repeatedly referred to as male which may or may not be an error in itself.</p><p>Also, with the prelude lore for EoF, they hint at Wuoshi planning something sinister all on his own, yet when he is visited for the Tunare deity quest he comes off as irate, but still dutiful to his role.</p><p>There is also the mentioning of the shadow men possibly corrupting him.</p><p>At the same time, fighting him in Emerald Halls shows that not only does he wield power akin to the Avatar of Growth itself, but that all the denizens of the hall are loyal enough to rush to his aid if not dispatched first.</p><p>This brings up all sorts of issues, was Wuoshi actually corrupt...was the entire Emerald Halls corrupt? Of course, with the new druid portal event coming to a close, we enter the Emerald Halls to see no Wuoshi, not even a mention of him which leads us to believe that either he is indeed dead as per the guild hall trophy.</p><p>Or conversely, that as I said in <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=454696" target="_blank">my old complain thread</a>, those in charge of the lore never go back and cross-check to make sure everything and everyone is accounted for aside from certain spotlight npcs. Because it is easier to 'drop a bridge' on non spotlight npcs than to give them proper closure.</p></blockquote><p>I think old Wushi had an ultera motive and desired power, at least, that is how I interpritated the story about him taking over and protecting the bloom of growth.</p><p>I also think that Nagafan is, if not good, by no strech evil. He is a git, yes, but I think he has a greater role to play. Him and his eggs. I would say maybe Chaotic Good? Possible Chaotic Neutral? That is how I saw it.</p><p>DD I've seen as a bit of a tragic figure. We murder her wards, and attack her, she flies off, and we later help her retake the temple, but her wards, the Oynan, don't see her again. I just find that quite sad.</p><p>I don't think the dragon in icy keep is evil, just young and niave. We've tried to kill him a few times, so he is defensive.</p><p>Tranix I think is true neutral, with an intimacy for Deathtoll and protecting it, and by invading the sacred place, we must die.</p><p>Now, if we are onto the subject of Dragons. Tox, why are her wings handlike? And is she the mother of Darathar.</p><p>Khalen Dar. What killed him?</p><p>Waansu. Why did PC make him. How? And is he a threat to Odus.</p></blockquote><p>1. His story didnt exactly mesh with anything we see of him in-game.</p><p>2. I would place him as neutral evil, he is all about himself and furthering his own goals at the cost of others. He had no regard for tradition and law when he mated with Vox, and is smart enough to know doing evil for evil's sake wont get you far.</p><p>3. Young and naive indeed, he is foolish enough to spout sermons and idle threats at adventurers who 'are having none of it'.</p><p>4. He is dead and his spirit is elsewhere, he is no more alive than a golem or machine, he was created to guard the treasure of Deathtoll, nothing more.</p><p>5. We were lead to believe she is the mother of Venekor, by some of the old devs but nothing ever came of it.</p><p>6. No idea.</p><p>7. Because PC saw himself as a visionary, also no expansion is truly complete without at least 1 or more dragons to kill. Zarrakon after all was the only one in TSO.</p>

[Gninja]

<p>Vrewwx is also a good dragon. More to come with him down the road as well <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>Really? When we first met him as a baby dragon, he certainly was a spoiled brat who sure seemed to not care about us.</p>

[shadowscale]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Really? When we first met him as a baby dragon, he certainly was a spoiled brat who sure seemed to not care about us.</p></blockquote><p>err did you read all his dialog from last frost fell? makes us sound like the bad guy going after him when he hasent actualy done anything. we attack him simpy becaus a few goblins say he is.</p><p>would love the option of feeding them to him rather then helping them...</p>

[Arkenor]

<p><a href="http://www.arksark.org/blog/2639/man-s-inhumanity-to-monster/"><img src="http://www.arksark.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Everquest-2-Maltheas-is-given-food-for-thought-by-Vrewwx-the-Dragon-449x323.jpg" width="449" height="323" /></a></p><p>Lead us to wisdom, mighty Vrewwx!! He is very much Maltheas' dragony hero.</p>

[Aceshot]

<p>Quite honestly, I think we need a kind of alignment system to go with the storyline tab. So we know when we are actually stopping something evil, when we are being used, and when we are being horrible, horrible people.</p><p>Stii, Vexxy being good... As a lover of lore, this will make me think twice about raiding icy keep...</p><p>Ohh! I know two more good dragons! The dragons that sometimes appear and tell stories. They are good I think!</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>shadowscale wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Really? When we first met him as a baby dragon, he certainly was a spoiled brat who sure seemed to not care about us.</p></blockquote><p>err did you read all his dialog from last frost fell? makes us sound like the bad guy going after him when he hasent actualy done anything. we attack him simpy becaus a few goblins say he is.</p><p>would love the option of feeding them to him rather then helping them...</p></blockquote><p>Yeah I know the goblins set us up to do the whole thing, but when we actually woke him up and he froze us in place, he was still pretty snobbish to me.</p>

[Mikkachu]

<p>You can be a jerk, or a snob, or an arrogant snobby jerk, and still be good.  Good is not nice, and nice is different than good, to quote Into the Woods (or to get you trapped on TV Tropes for all eternity). If a bratty dragon is trying to work for a world where random adventurers don't stomp in to his lair and attempt to kill him for existing, he's neutral, even if he is a brat.  If he's trying to work for a world where random adventuers don't stomp in to the lairs of any creature and kill them simply for existing, then he's dancing on that good line (unless there's some xantos rolate going on, anyway), no matter how jerkish his responses might be.</p><p>Even D&D, our source for most strict alignment debates, notes that<em> "Good is not nice, polite, well-mannered, self-righteous, or naive, though good characters may be some of these things."</em></p><p>I haven't played the latest Vexxy storyline, but being a snob in no way prohibits him from being a good guy.  Neither does freezing people attempting to do him harm (when he's barely been born, at that) or calling them out for having done such an action.  A villian can be polite, considerate, following a code similar to honor, and generally regretful about harm they do- but as long as they're still doing that harm, they're evil (...excusing mind-control and a rare well-intentioned extremist that hasn't crossed the full line yet).  And a good guy can be selfish, refuse to explain anything, brush off graittiude and love and social contact, while still working dutifully to make the world a better place.</p><p>Those sort of characters are all around stories- older then Shakesphere, from that matter, although they get more and more common in modern media each day.  I think EQ(2) has quite a few examples of a jerk hero (or even antihero), just as it does polite considerate villians.</p>

[Gninja]

<p>Considering he just had all his friends and loyal followers slaughtered and he still gives you the option to walk away instead of just wiping the floor with you. That sounds pretty good to me :p</p>

[Morghus]

<p><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Vrewwx is also a good dragon. More to come with him down the road as well <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Frostfell again then I take it? I find it interesting that we've been getting a new Vrewxx plushie with each one...though I also find it a bit odd that when we face him in Icy Keep Retribution that his 'small' form looks different and is smaller than when we last saw him during Frostfell. Maybe this time we will get a plushy of the 'adult form'? I know I was a little surprised there wasnt one for completing the zone hehe. I'm sure he won't be amused at me showing up wearing an 'Ice Dragonskin robe' when we next meet on Frostfell. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Ksaun]

<p>I always looked at Naggy as a good dragon. He could afterall incinerate anyone who enters his domain, but instead he does allow us to live.</p><p>The baby from frostfell I also considered a good dragon considering what we were about to do to him and he let us live and gave us a warning.</p><p>I don't think that them being snobbish qualifies them as being evil. Put yourself in their place, how would you act if a band of adventurers approached you and you knew that if they thought they had a chance they would kill you, how would you treat them?</p>

[Morghus]

<p>I don't understand where everyone seems to get the idea that Nagafen is good. He may not be trying to kill us, but that doesn't change anything. His actions may not be evil upon initial inspection, but they clearly tell us more about him.</p><p>1. He willfully mated with Vox, which was against the laws of his people even knowing that the result of such a union in the past created an insane monster more powerful than any dragon since.</p><p>2. He willfully misled us into doing his dirty work for him, destroying his old enemy Darathar and destroying the prismatic egg that had been stolen, which he considers a loose end. Can't have anyone other than himself with a prismatic weapon after all.</p><p>3. He lies to us about the actions and fate of the sleeper, and then later has us plunder Deathtoll, the sleeper's personal cache of treasure while sabotaging the sleeper's followers in the process.</p><p>In the end, we will either kill the sleeper himself, or imprison him again. When that happens, Nagafen's prismatic children will no longer have a fully grown prismatic to threaten them.</p><p>Dragons are a powerful, arrogant race on the decline, many of whom are still grasping at trying to restore their past glory. They are no longer the masters of the world they were placed on and want that to change.</p><p>A dragon being kind to one of us lesser beings is like a human being kind to an insect, or a lesser animal. It would only be done because it amuses them, or they wish to use us. A benevolent dragon is an exception to the norm and should never be looked at with anything less than suspicion.</p>

[Iskandar]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Yeah I know the goblins set us up to do the whole thing, but when we actually woke him up and he froze us in place, he was still pretty snobbish to me.</blockquote><p>If a bunch of strangers broke into my home, murdered my staff and protectors, and then tried to shatter my egg and kill me, I'd be more than a little snobbish too <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" /> </p>

[Rezikai]

<p><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Considering he just had all his friends and loyal followers slaughtered and he still gives you the option to walk away instead of just wiping the floor with you. That sounds pretty good to me :p</p></blockquote><p>No, i call that Stoo-peed. We all know why evil will always win...</p><p style="text-align: center;"><img src="http://eq2images.station.sony.com/000/001/751/414.JPG" width="255" height="256" /></p>

[Mythilt]

<p><cite>Mikkachu wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You can be a jerk, or a snob, or an arrogant snobby jerk, and still be good.  Good is not nice, and nice is different than good, to quote Into the Woods (or to get you trapped on TV Tropes for all eternity). If a bratty dragon is trying to work for a world where random adventurers don't stomp in to his lair and attempt to kill him for existing, he's neutral, even if he is a brat.  If he's trying to work for a world where random adventuers don't stomp in to the lairs of any creature and kill them simply for existing, then he's dancing on that good line (unless there's some xantos rolate going on, anyway), no matter how jerkish his responses might be.</p><p>Even D&D, our source for most strict alignment debates, notes that<em> "Good is not nice, polite, well-mannered, self-righteous, or naive, though good characters may be some of these things."</em></p></blockquote><p>Best example of good is not the same thing as nice....Granny Weatherwax...who is *definitely* not nice, but is also good.</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Iskandar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Yeah I know the goblins set us up to do the whole thing, but when we actually woke him up and he froze us in place, he was still pretty snobbish to me.</blockquote><p>If a bunch of strangers broke into my home, murdered my staff and protectors, and then tried to shatter my egg and kill me, I'd be more than a little snobbish too <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" /> </p></blockquote><p>Well, to be fair his people did break into the keep and murder, enslave or drive out the goblins who ask you to help recover their home in the first place. I wouldn't call Vrewwx good by any streach of the imagination.</p><p>BTW: anyone remember the goblin smiths in the first instance, or the frozen bodies? I seriously doubt the goblins set up Vrewwx or his followers.</p>

[Uncaged]

<p><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Considering he just had all his friends and loyal followers slaughtered and he still gives you the option to walk away instead of just wiping the floor with you. That sounds pretty good to me :p</p></blockquote><p>I find it hard to believe after this quote from a dev that people on here are still arguing whether this lil' bugger is good or not. As to some of his statements, it seems he already knows we will do something stupid like killing Theer and allowing Kerafym to obtain the power of the swords. Maybe that is not what he is referring to but it does fit.</p><p>Killing a mob that has unintended consequences which we cannot take back. Anyhow, I would like to give the devs a /congratulations for keeping the story fresh and interesting. Honestly, when they got hot and heavy on the Void story with Shadow Odyessy, I took a long break. Too much purple and black for my taste =). But Sentiniel's Fate has helped to cure me of that.</p><p>Very nicely done devs.</p>

[teddyboy4]

<p><cite>Morghus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't understand where everyone seems to get the idea that Nagafen is good. He may not be trying to kill us, but that doesn't change anything. His actions may not be evil upon initial inspection, but they clearly tell us more about him.</p><p>1. He willfully mated with Vox, which was against the laws of his people even knowing that the result of such a union in the past created an insane monster more powerful than any dragon since.</p><p>2. He willfully misled us into doing his dirty work for him, destroying his old enemy Darathar and destroying the prismatic egg that had been stolen, which he considers a loose end. Can't have anyone other than himself with a prismatic weapon after all.</p><p>3. He lies to us about the actions and fate of the sleeper, and then later has us plunder Deathtoll, the sleeper's personal cache of treasure while sabotaging the sleeper's followers in the process.</p><p>In the end, we will either kill the sleeper himself, or imprison him again. When that happens, Nagafen's prismatic children will no longer have a fully grown prismatic to threaten them.</p><p>Dragons are a powerful, arrogant race on the decline, many of whom are still grasping at trying to restore their past glory. They are no longer the masters of the world they were placed on and want that to change.</p><p>A dragon being kind to one of us lesser beings is like a human being kind to an insect, or a lesser animal. It would only be done because it amuses them, or they wish to use us. A benevolent dragon is an exception to the norm and should never be looked at with anything less than suspicion.</p></blockquote><p>I think it has more to do w/ Naggy being somewhat of an endearing figure, kind of like that big jerk you hated in high school, but when you see him at the 20 year reunion it's all smiles and hugs.</p><p>He's familiar, we all remember him being that cool red dragon that was one of the earliest "raid" targets and killable dragons from EQ, so when we see him in EQ2 as a quest giver, as an NPC to talk and work with, it just makes it that much easier to think fondly of him and forget that he is really just a scheming dragon who views mortals as nothing more then tools, disposable tools at that.</p>

[The_Cheeseman]

<p>Nagafen? Good? Are we forgetting that he has basically never made an entriely true statement in any dialogue we've shared with him, he's currently attempting to raise an army of sentient weapons of mass destruction, has willfully disregarded one of the most sacred draconic laws, and has actually employed us as contract killers to assassinate every dragon that has gotten in his way?</p><p>If you wandered into Al Capone's house and he decided not to murder you on the spot, would you call him good as well?</p><p>Oh, and Toxxulia isn't Darathar's mother, as far as I know, but she is Venekor's mother, with Trakanon. Considering most PCs past encounters with Venekor, I can see why Toxx may not be too friendly.</p><p>Personally, I find the concept of moral alignment to be somewhat shallow and infantile. Good vs. evil is a crutch that should only be used to hold-up a story when it lacks the depth to stand on its own. The more developed a mythology becomes, the less it should rely on abstract tags like "Good" and "Evil" and the more it can be allowed to explore the complex motivations that drive its characters and their interrelations.</p>

[Wilin]

<p><cite>Rezikai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Considering he just had all his friends and loyal followers slaughtered and he still gives you the option to walk away instead of just wiping the floor with you. That sounds pretty good to me :p</p></blockquote><p>No, i call that Stoo-peed. We all know why evil will always win...</p><p style="text-align: center;"><img src="http://eq2images.station.sony.com/000/001/751/414.JPG" width="255" height="256" /></p></blockquote><p>Yes, because good is dumb. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>