coercer illusionist comparison question

[robail]

<p>I currently have a sarnak coercer and was wondering what the main diff would be if I betrayed and became an illusionist.</p>

[Chock]

<p><cite>robail wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I currently have a sarnak coercer and was wondering what the main diff would be if I betrayed and became an illusionist.</p></blockquote><p>Probably more weeping, exhausted fingers, etc.  You cast more crap as an illy with a lot less return.  You have much more dps potential with a coercer than an illy.  The only reason to betray is if your raid/guild told you to, or you really liked the beatings you got as a kid.</p>

[Encantador]

<p>Wrong way round. Coercers cast a little faster and get slightly more resists. That is until cast and recast speeds are capped. Then amount cast is the same. Both do equal DPS.</p><p>There is <strong>very</strong> little difference between the classes.</p><p>With a coercer you get to solo by charming. But its not what it used to be and a lot of the time you are better off with the illusionist persona. I can't think of anything else that is significantly different except group desirability. Illusionist are wanted in all group styles. Coercers are wanted for melee heavy groups.</p>

[Chock]

<p><cite>Encantador wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Wrong way round. Coercers cast a little faster and get slightly more resists. That is until cast and recast speeds are capped. Then amount cast is the same. Both do equal DPS.</p><p>There is <strong>very</strong> little difference between the classes.</p><p>With a coercer you get to solo by charming. But its not what it used to be and a lot of the time you are better off with the illusionist persona. I can't think of anything else that is significantly different except group desirability. Illusionist are wanted in all group styles. Coercers are wanted for melee heavy groups.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, well hmm.  I have both a coercer and an Illy.  I play both.  I have raided both and current f/t raiding my illy.  Coercer wtfpwns my Illy.  There is a monumental difference between the classes. </p>

[Babin]

<p><cite>Chock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Encantador wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Wrong way round. Coercers cast a little faster and get slightly more resists. That is until cast and recast speeds are capped. Then amount cast is the same. Both do equal DPS.</p><p>There is <strong>very</strong> little difference between the classes.</p><p>With a coercer you get to solo by charming. But its not what it used to be and a lot of the time you are better off with the illusionist persona. I can't think of anything else that is significantly different except group desirability. Illusionist are wanted in all group styles. Coercers are wanted for melee heavy groups.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, well hmm.  I have both a coercer and an Illy.  I play both.  I have raided both and current f/t raiding my illy.  Coercer wtfpwns my Illy.  There is a monumental difference between the classes. </p></blockquote><p>Since the difference is monumental, would you mind elaborating? I am understandably curious.</p><p>Thanks in advance... </p>

[Andu]

<p><cite>Babin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Chock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Encantador wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Wrong way round. Coercers cast a little faster and get slightly more resists. That is until cast and recast speeds are capped. Then amount cast is the same. Both do equal DPS.</p><p>There is <strong>very</strong> little difference between the classes.</p><p>With a coercer you get to solo by charming. But its not what it used to be and a lot of the time you are better off with the illusionist persona. I can't think of anything else that is significantly different except group desirability. Illusionist are wanted in all group styles. Coercers are wanted for melee heavy groups.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, well hmm.  I have both a coercer and an Illy.  I play both.  I have raided both and current f/t raiding my illy.  Coercer wtfpwns my Illy.  There is a monumental difference between the classes. </p></blockquote><p>Since the difference is monumental, would you mind elaborating? I am understandably curious.</p><p>Thanks in advance... </p></blockquote><p>Coercers do more damage, end of story, and have done since their revamp. Some may argue this isn't the case but they are generally experiencing being bad coercers v good illys.</p><p>People get all confused because Coercers tend to sit in the main tank/OT groups without a troub and compare their figures to illy's sat in a stacked mage group.</p><p>That said, I personally wouldn't go as far as "monumental" difference. Both cast similarly, after all our spells have similar cast times and we both have Perpetuality.</p>

[desinence]

<p><cite>Anduri wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Babin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Chock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Encantador wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Wrong way round. Coercers cast a little faster and get slightly more resists. That is until cast and recast speeds are capped. Then amount cast is the same. Both do equal DPS.</p><p>There is <strong>very</strong> little difference between the classes.</p><p>With a coercer you get to solo by charming. But its not what it used to be and a lot of the time you are better off with the illusionist persona. I can't think of anything else that is significantly different except group desirability. Illusionist are wanted in all group styles. Coercers are wanted for melee heavy groups.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, well hmm.  I have both a coercer and an Illy.  I play both.  I have raided both and current f/t raiding my illy.  Coercer wtfpwns my Illy.  There is a monumental difference between the classes. </p></blockquote><p>Since the difference is monumental, would you mind elaborating? I am understandably curious.</p><p>Thanks in advance... </p></blockquote><p>Coercers do more damage, end of story, and have done since their revamp. Some may argue this isn't the case but they are generally experiencing being bad coercers v good illys.</p><p>People get all confused because Coercers tend to sit in the main tank/OT groups without a troub and compare their figures to illy's sat in a stacked mage group.</p><p>That said, I personally wouldn't go as far as "monumental" difference. Both cast similarly, after all our spells have similar cast times and we both have Perpetuality.</p></blockquote><p>Quite Right, though i did notice some coercer spells have longer timers, the cast speed remain the same. They have two reactives which are easier to proc than our one, and one has up to 8 triggers in SF that can all be triggered at once... and yes, they can equal dps with us despite our stacked group. an instance run with a coercer will easily prove this as they outparse you. My coercer Raid experience is from TSO mind you, so some may have changed, my coercer is still 80</p>

[Banditman]

<p>I was an Illusionist until the SF expansion.  Had been since before DoF.  SF was the final straw and I betrayed.</p><p>There is a marked difference between a Coercer and an Illy.</p><p>Yes, Coercers definitely do deal with more in the way of resists than Illusionists.  It can be a little frustrating at times.  Illusionists have different tools to deal with that than Coercers, which leads to one of the big differences.</p><p>Coercers debuff.  They have a very significant impact on the resists of any given mob, especially in the Arcane arena.  A Coercer can really put a debuff hurt on a mob.  On longer fights, say 60+ seconds, it wouldn't be unusual for a Coercer to have a mob down 5k to Arcane, with lesser amounts of Elemental and Noxious debuffing.  They can stack another 5k to all magical resists on top of that for 13 seconds with Tashiana.</p><p>Coercers rely heavily on reactive damage.  They have no less than three spells that require some sort of reactive trigger to cause damage to occur.  Their biggest source of damage is typically Hostage, a reactive placed on the mob that triggers up to 8 times when the mob is struck with a melee weapon.  They have a second "hostile" reactive, Spell Curse, that lands on all mobs in an encounter and triggers up to three times when those mobs are hit with a spell.  Their third reactive is a "friendly" reactive that does additional damage every time the person it is cast on hits a mob with a spell.</p><p>Coercers have no great advantage in pets, in most circumstances.  Possess Essence is very comparable to Personae.  Charm *can* be very nice . . . when you can find a valid target . . . when it doesn't break early . . . when the target is actually worth charming instead of possessing.  Coercers can be a better pet class, but the chances of actually being able to leverage that advantage are pretty slim.</p><p>Coercers definitely do DPS better than Illusionists.  They have more ways to do damage, pretty simple.  Illusionists generally use:  UVB, Brainclot, Nightmare, Prismatic Adornment, Ultraviolet Storm, Chromatic Shower, Daze, Stifle as their damage dealing package.  Coercers use:  Hemorage, Brainshock, Asylum, Destructive Mind, Simple Minds, Shockwave, Ego Shock and Stifle.  Those are the parts that are "roughly" identical.  Coercers also have Spell Curse and Hostage that there really isn't a valid comparison for.</p>

[screenid]

<p>At this point in the game...  Coercers JUST are more fun to play.</p><p> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" />  I am going to stay an illusionist ...and hope they send some love our way.</p>

[desinence]

<p><cite>screenid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>At this point in the game...  Coercers JUST are more fun to play.</p><p> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" />  I am going to stay an illusionist ...and hope they send some love our way.</p></blockquote><p>obviously you haven't read Xelgad's interview and his intention for the class... expect nothing. Me, i'll continue playing the class till i have a chance to raid with one of my alt's, all it is now is a maintained raid slot and the ticket to gearing alt's which are more enjoyable to play.</p>