Why is the Guardian class Underpowered?

[Wasuna]

<p>The current state of the Guardian class:</p><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">High End Raid Geared Guardian</span></p><p>1. Roughly equal survivibility to all fighters</p><p>2. Lowest DPS of all fighters.</p><p>3. Lowest TPS of all fighters.</p><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Heroic/Legendary Geared Guardian</span></p><p>1. Low if not Lowest survivibility of all fighters.</p><p>2. Lowest DPS of all fighters.</p><p>3. Lowest TPS of all fighters.</p><p>Dozens and Dozens of threads have been posted with good/bad/indifferent suggestions for a fix to the above.</p><p>Would SoE like to explain themselves?</p>

[Rahatmattata]

<p>first</p>

[Rocc]

<p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=481673">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=481673</a></p>

[juggalo0385]

<p>Wasuna quit your [Removed for Content] crying and learn to play your class already</p>

[Loendar]

<p><cite>juggalo0385 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Wasuna quit your [Removed for Content] crying and learn to play your class already</p></blockquote><p>Word!  The hundreds of Guardians that are complaining the disparity in classes and backing up those assertions with facts are simply inept.</p><p>L2P!</p>

[JoarAddam]

<p>For some reason I just pictured the Movie "underworld" when Kate beckinsale says "there could be dozens of lycans down there, maybe even hundreds"  and Craven looks around and goes "Hundreds.  Really." </p><p>Because to me, having read these threads through a couple times now, it looks like the same 6 people over and over again.</p>

[Loendar]

<p><cite>JoarAddam wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>For some reason I just pictured the Movie "underworld" when Kate beckinsale says "there could be dozens of lycans down there, maybe even hundreds"  and Craven looks around and goes "Hundreds.  Really." </p><p>Because to me, having read these threads through a couple times now, it looks like the same 6 people over and over again.</p></blockquote><p>It is probably a lot of the same people at the moment but only because it is cyclical with different people bringing the topic up over an extended period of time.  The group bringing it up now is not the same group that brought it up 3 months ago, 6 months, a year... etc.  Beyond that - this isn't the ONLY site where the problems are brought up nor are forums the only avenue.</p><p>Just because the current vocal folks are the same doesn't mean there haven't/aren't a lot more that were previously vocal but gave up due to the 'deaf ears' argument.</p>

[Phelon_Skellhound]

<p><span >There are threads already up that would be better suited for this topic....  As I said once before that it's to keep suggestions and information more centrally located instead of spreading it all around like this...  Also as a suggestion I wouldnt be all like "Would SOE like to explain themselves?"  It takes away from the ernest intent of fixing your class...</span></p><p>What a guard needs...? </p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=478444">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=478444</a></p><p><a name="5315813">Guardian's What works, What doesn't and suggestions to fix what is broken.</a></p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=478024">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=478024</a></p><p>The above listed topics have some really good ideas.  It's better just to add to them</p>

[Grumpy_Warrior_01]

<p><cite>Khatiru@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span>There are threads already up that would be better suited for this topic....  As I said once before that it's to keep suggestions and information more centrally located instead of spreading it all around like this...  Also as a suggestion I wouldnt be all like "Would SOE like to explain themselves?"  It takes away from the ernest intent of fixing your class...</span></p><p>What a guard needs...? </p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=478444">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=478444</a></p><p>Guardian's What works, What doesn't and suggestions to fix what is broken.</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=478024">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=478024</a></p><p>The above listed topics have some really good ideas.  It's better just to add to them</p></blockquote><p>How about you post in the forums where you want to, and we'll post in the forums where we want to.  If you'll notice, just about everybody that has an opinion has posted in those threads already, and so by simple logic you can deduce that we are quite aware of their existence.</p>

[Bruener]

<p><cite>Grumpy_Warrior_01 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Khatiru@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span>There are threads already up that would be better suited for this topic....  As I said once before that it's to keep suggestions and information more centrally located instead of spreading it all around like this...  Also as a suggestion I wouldnt be all like "Would SOE like to explain themselves?"  It takes away from the ernest intent of fixing your class...</span></p><p>What a guard needs...? </p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=478444">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=478444</a></p><p>Guardian's What works, What doesn't and suggestions to fix what is broken.</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=478024">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=478024</a></p><p>The above listed topics have some really good ideas.  It's better just to add to them</p></blockquote><p>How about you post in the forums where you want to, and we'll post in the forums where we want to.  If you'll notice, just about everybody that has an opinion has posted in those threads already, and so by simple logic you can deduce that we are quite aware of their existence.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah the point you are missing is that yet another QQ thread is unneeded and serves no purpose at all.  All you do is lower threads that are actually useful by posting more junk that as you have already put it everybody already knows.</p>

[Phelon_Skellhound]

<p><cite>Grumpy_Warrior_01 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> How about you post in the forums where you want to, and we'll post in the forums where we want to.  If you'll notice, just about everybody that has an opinion has posted in those threads already, and so by simple logic you can deduce that we are quite aware of their existence.</p></blockquote><p>Thats fine and dandy as long as you post in already existing threads dedicated to this topic and not creating Class Improvement Thread # 43.... </p>

[Landiin]

<p><cite>Khatiru@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Grumpy_Warrior_01 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> How about you post in the forums where you want to, and we'll post in the forums where we want to.  If you'll notice, just about everybody that has an opinion has posted in those threads already, and so by simple logic you can deduce that we are quite aware of their existence.</p></blockquote><p>Thats fine and dandy as long as you post in already existing threads dedicated to this topic and not creating Class Improvement Thread # 43.... </p></blockquote><p>Why are you even posting here? If you have nothing constructive to add don't post else you just add to the tolling. Oh thats right you are prob another crusader trying to keep their OP state.</p><p>Give guards the most TPS and the most DPS and we will be fine... Oh wait that would make make them a crusader...</p>

[Loendar]

<p>I find it almost laughable that SK's would come in and suggest that another class shouldn't make threads about trying to get themselves fixed.</p><p>Isn't that exactly what SK's did ad nausaem prior to TSO when everything went their way.  We are just trying to follow a posting model that has clearly worked in the past.</p>

[Bruener]

<p><cite>Loendar@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I find it almost laughable that SK's would come in and suggest that another class shouldn't make threads about trying to get themselves fixed.</p><p>Isn't that exactly what SK's did ad nausaem prior to TSO when everything went their way.  We are just trying to follow a posting model that has clearly worked in the past.</p></blockquote><p>No the model that worked for SKs was titled SK Issues and Concerns or something along that line that was a huge post about SK issues and possible fixes.  Even the mod has suggested that you guys really come up with a more constructive way to get things noticed, hence the Guard Issues thread that is here....</p><p>But sure keep [Removed for Content] them off maybe they will just delete all the threads and keep you guys completely locked up in the Guard forum section.</p><p>It really is amazing the few people that continually keep QQ'ing can't seem to post anything constructive in the important threads.</p>

[Landiin]

<p><cite>Bruener wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Loendar@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I find it almost laughable that SK's would come in and suggest that another class shouldn't make threads about trying to get themselves fixed.</p><p>Isn't that exactly what SK's did ad nausaem prior to TSO when everything went their way.  We are just trying to follow a posting model that has clearly worked in the past.</p></blockquote><p>No the model that worked for SKs was titled SK Issues and Concerns or something along that line that was a huge post about SK issues and possible fixes.  Even the mod has suggested that you guys really come up with a more constructive way to get things noticed, hence the Guard Issues thread that is here....</p><p>But sure keep [Removed for Content] them off maybe they will just delete all the threads and keep you guys completely locked up in the Guard forum section.</p><p>It really is amazing the few people that continually keep QQ'ing can't seem to post anything constructive in the important threads.</p></blockquote><p>What is even more amazing is cursaders QQing on issues guard have and then calling them QQer...  No one has QQed more then Bruener in guard threads. In fact Bruener is the king of QQing on these forums I do believe.</p>

[Loendar]

<p><cite>Bruener wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Loendar@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I find it almost laughable that SK's would come in and suggest that another class shouldn't make threads about trying to get themselves fixed.</p><p>Isn't that exactly what SK's did ad nausaem prior to TSO when everything went their way.  We are just trying to follow a posting model that has clearly worked in the past.</p></blockquote><p>No the model that worked for SKs was titled SK Issues and Concerns or something along that line that was a huge post about SK issues and possible fixes.  Even the mod has suggested that you guys really come up with a more constructive way to get things noticed, hence the Guard Issues thread that is here....</p><p>But sure keep [Removed for Content] them off maybe they will just delete all the threads and keep you guys completely locked up in the Guard forum section.</p><p>It really is amazing the few people that continually keep QQ'ing can't seem to post anything constructive in the important threads.</p></blockquote><p>This has to be one of the funniest responses I've read in recent memory.  If you honestly believe after the hunderds of crusader posts made complaining about their class(es) prior to TSO that all it took was one with the right subject line to get it to happen you are clearly delusional.</p><p>I need to go and find the posting you speak of - I wouldn't be surprised if you were the author of it.  It would fit perfectly with your egotistical view of things.</p><p>The majority of us have posted in the posts you decree as constructive but want to make sure we aren't lost in the jumble of naysayers like yourselves so continue to pursue other avenues.</p><p>Really - the issues that Guardian's need corrected don't impact your class, so kindly go away and I promise to stay out of your SK specific threads.</p>

[Phelon_Skellhound]

<p>Here is a prime example to what I am trying to convey...  What a Raiding SK needs...  prior to TSO 2008... </p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?&topic_id=415117">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=415117</a></p><p>Great comunity feedback... it went 10 pages with over a hundred replies...  The OP updated his original post with the great ideas that were provided for at little over a month... Kept an easy to read format broken down into sections... even non SK's were providing feedback... What I am trying to say, is that you need to keep the good threads alive not bury them under threads that repeat the same thing over and over again... It just hurts what the OP actually is trying to do.. </p><p>Now if you want to prove you can do better.... If you are so passionate about your class...  READ those threads which seem to be on their death beds ready to be put out.. consolidate those ideas into one thread... and keep it alive...  SK's did and look what happened...</p><p><cite>Gnobrin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong>Thank you Darkc for posting this!</strong>  I can't promise <em>swift </em>returns on it, but I'll be more then happy to forward it to those on the team that juggle the 24 classes and how to balance them.</p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>~Gnobrin!</p></blockquote><p>And if ya dont get that.... Fine, ignore me....  post class improvement thread # 44.. What do I know? I'm just an overpowered class troll trying to derail such an uber thread, making sure the guardian class stays under the heels of the other plate tanks...  oh and FD and evac are uber usefull class defining utility skills that no other plate class can have *sigh*</p><p>my final post in this thread btw so carry on... I've lost interest in this thread now...</p>

[Landiin]

<p><cite>Khatiru@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Here is a prime example to what I am trying to convey...  What a Raiding SK needs...  prior to TSO 2008... </p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?&topic_id=415117">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=415117</a></p><p>Great comunity feedback... it went 10 pages with over a hundred replies...  The OP updated his original post with the great ideas that were provided for at little over a month... Kept an easy to read format broken down into sections... even non SK's were providing feedback... What I am trying to say, is that you need to keep the good threads alive not bury them under threads that repeat the same thing over and over again... It just hurts what the OP actually is trying to do.. </p><p>Now if you want to prove you can do better.... If you are so passionate about your class...  READ those threads which seem to be on their death beds ready to be put out.. consolidate those ideas into one thread... and keep it alive...  SK's did and look what happened...</p><p><cite>Gnobrin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong>Thank you Darkc for posting this!</strong>  I can't promise <em>swift </em>returns on it, but I'll be more then happy to forward it to those on the team that juggle the 24 classes and how to balance them.</p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>~Gnobrin!</p></blockquote><p>And if ya dont get that.... Fine, ignore me....  post class improvement thread # 44.. What do I know? I'm just an overpowered class troll trying to derail such an uber thread, making sure the guardian class stays under the heels of the other plate tanks...  oh and FD and evac are uber usefull class defining utility skills that no other plate class can have *sigh*</p><p>my final post in this thread btw so carry on... I've lost interest in this thread now...</p></blockquote><p>They done that 10000000 tmes.. only to get crusaders bursting on on the thread saying this and that so your point is mute.</p><p>There was also verry good post and suggestion on the beta forums, guess what? Yea you guessed it, crusaders would burst in QQing about this and that. I'll let you guess who led the charge from the crusader side.. </p>

[juggalo0385]

<p>I will troll Wasuna now and forever til he stops his crying....guards are not broken fighter class balance is fine the way it is</p>

[Macross_JR]

<p><cite>juggalo0385 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I will troll Wasuna now and forever til he stops his crying....guards are not broken fighter class balance is fine the way it is</p></blockquote><p>so you just openly admitted that you are going to troll someone even though trolling is against the forum rules...smart, real smart.</p>

[Landiin]

<p><cite>juggalo0385 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I will troll Wasuna now and forever til he stops his crying....guards are not broken fighter class balance is fine the way it is</p></blockquote><p>Thank you <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Samulbrar]

<p>A) This thread went downhill right away, so I'm just going to lock.</p><p>B) Trolling is bad, mmkay. Proclaiming that you'll troll someone forever gets your name added to our spy satellite.</p>