New Priest Spell [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

KerowynnKaotic

06-25-2010, 02:28 PM

It would be nice if it had a Reduction of Power by 10% and/or Damage increase but I'm not sure if really needs it. I think it might be in line to what They want for a lvl 6 Freebie spell that will automatically upgrade every lvl.---------The Cast time for it sits in the 4th out 5 spots for Wardens, with AA Thunderstrike at 1st with 0.5.The Recast for it makes it sit in the 3rd spot for Wardens, with AA Thunderstike at last with 30.0.The Cast time for it sits in the 4th out 5 spots for Furies, with AA Thunderstrike at 1st again.The Recast for it makes it tied for 3rd spot for Furies with Thunderbolt, with AA Thunderstike at last again. --Power consumption vs damage ..Both Examples have Stormcaller's Control AA max, which increases damage by 10%.As an average based off my current spells on my Test Fury, which is lvl 57 and has various spell grades, using the lowest damage possible & Power cost ..<ul><li>Death swarm gives an average of 15 dmg per mana point spent (max AA choice)</li><li>Tempest gives an average of 14 dmg per mana point spent - If non-elemental (max AA choice)<ul><li>Tempest gives an average of 26 dmg per mana point spent - If Elemental</li></ul></li><li>ThunderBolt gives an average of 9 dmg per mana point spent (max AA choice)</li><li>Thunderstrike gives an average of 7 dmg per mana point spent (Rank 5)</li><li>Wrath gives an average of 6 dmg per mana point spent. </li></ul>As an averaged based of my not so current Test Copy Fury, lvl 73 also various spell upgrades, and again using lowest possible damage & Power cost. Without Armor:<ul><li>Death swarm gives an average of 12 dmg per mana point spent (max AA choice)</li><li>Tempest gives an average of 9 dmg per mana point spent - If non-elemental (max AA choice)<ul><li>Tempest gives an average of 17 dmg per mana point spent - If Elemental </li></ul></li><li>ThunderBolt gives an average of 6 dmg per mana point spent (max AA choice)</li><li>Thunderstrike gives an average of 6 dmg per mana point spent (Rank 10) </li><li>Wrath gives an average of 3 dmg per mana point spent. </li></ul>With Armor: <ul><li>Death swarm gives an average of 18 dmg per mana point spent (max AA choice) </li><li>Tempest gives an average of 14 dmg per mana point spent - If non-elemental (max AA choice) <ul><li>Tempest gives an average of 25 dmg per mana point spent - If Elemental </li></ul></li><li>ThunderBolt gives an average of 9 dmg per mana point spent (max AA choice) </li><li>Thunderstrike gives an average of 11 dmg per mana point spent (Rank 10) </li><li>Wrath gives an average of 6 dmg per mana point spent.</li></ul>

Kizee

06-27-2010, 08:42 PM

Seriously..... if you keep giving us spells. You NEED to give us more hotbars.As a templar I have all 10 hotbars used already.

Juravael

06-27-2010, 10:01 PM

Gungo

06-27-2010, 11:49 PM

<cite>Shimmer@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Seriously..... if you keep giving us spells. You NEED to give us more hotbars.As a templar I have all 10 hotbars used already.</blockquote>Its mostly a leveling spell, its honestly not that good at level 90 and prolly not worth putting on your hotbar then. You will probably outgrow it around level ~30 depending on your class.

Deson

06-28-2010, 09:36 AM

<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shimmer@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Seriously..... if you keep giving us spells. You NEED to give us more hotbars.As a templar I have all 10 hotbars used already.</blockquote>Its mostly a leveling spell, its honestly not that good at level 90 and prolly not worth putting on your hotbar then. You will probably outgrow it around level ~30 depending on your class. </blockquote>Then why bother? If people are currently bothered by the spam of abilities that are underutilized and a lack of clarity of abilities, why give them yet another spell to add into that? True newbies don't run parsers either-- not that you need one to figure out a spell is useless but, the newbies( and some vets) who come across this spell will be tempted to use it long past its usefulness. Rather than another Splitpaw spell, why not a temp buff? I'd prefer stances if it's really an issue but those are currently TSO endlines and they don't seem to have the desire to completely retool.

Thor71457

06-28-2010, 10:17 AM

I like this new spell.. It helps me out at a low level.. Will I keep using it past 30? I do not know yet. But as of now I find it useful...

Gungo

06-28-2010, 03:31 PM

<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shimmer@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Seriously..... if you keep giving us spells. You NEED to give us more hotbars.As a templar I have all 10 hotbars used already.</blockquote>Its mostly a leveling spell, its honestly not that good at level 90 and prolly not worth putting on your hotbar then. You will probably outgrow it around level ~30 depending on your class. </blockquote>Then why bother? If people are currently bothered by the spam of abilities that are underutilized and a lack of clarity of abilities, why give them yet another spell to add into that? True newbies don't run parsers either-- not that you need one to figure out a spell is useless but, the newbies( and some vets) who come across this spell will be tempted to use it long past its usefulness. Rather than another Splitpaw spell, why not a temp buff? I'd prefer stances if it's really an issue but those are currently TSO endlines and they don't seem to have the desire to completely retool.</blockquote>You act as if there is not several other damage spells a healer never uses at higher levels. The fact is which you seem to miss this spell is for the period in time when a healer has FEW damage abilites to level with. At higher levels healers have SEVERAL damage spells acquired through AA's and ancients that heplp thier dps and soloing. While I agree this spell should just be an extension of exsisting damage abilites granted earlier to healers and I do not care much for scaling spells since they are generally weaker then most other spells. This new spell does fix this issue and is NOT meant for end game raiders to up thier healers parses.This is the same reason why I think the class a ability attacks should be enhancements to existing spells instead of entirely new spells.

Deson

06-28-2010, 03:40 PM

<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shimmer@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Seriously..... if you keep giving us spells. You NEED to give us more hotbars.As a templar I have all 10 hotbars used already.</blockquote>Its mostly a leveling spell, its honestly not that good at level 90 and prolly not worth putting on your hotbar then. You will probably outgrow it around level ~30 depending on your class. </blockquote>Then why bother? If people are currently bothered by the spam of abilities that are underutilized and a lack of clarity of abilities, why give them yet another spell to add into that? True newbies don't run parsers either-- not that you need one to figure out a spell is useless but, the newbies( and some vets) who come across this spell will be tempted to use it long past its usefulness. Rather than another Splitpaw spell, why not a temp buff? I'd prefer stances if it's really an issue but those are currently TSO endlines and they don't seem to have the desire to completely retool.</blockquote>You act as if there is not several other damage spells a healer never uses at higher levels. The fact is which you seem to miss this spell is for the period in time when a healer has FEW damage abilites to level with. At higher levels healers have SEVERAL damage spells acquired through AA's and ancients that heplp thier dps and soloing. While I agree this spell should just be an extension of exsisting damage abilites granted earlier to healers and I do not care much for scaling spells since they are generally weaker then most other spells. This new spell does fix this issue and is NOT meant for end game raiders to up thier healers parses.This is the same reason why I think the class a ability attacks should be enhancements to existing spells instead of entirely new spells.</blockquote>I don't miss that the spell is for the early game. If you read what I actually said, I'm making the point that we already have too many abilities we don't use already, why add another when you can shift pre-existing spells down or otherwise fix the problem long term.You're a bit hostile even when people agree with you, may want to tone it down or take a moment to read what's said.

Gungo

06-28-2010, 03:46 PM

<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shimmer@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Seriously..... if you keep giving us spells. You NEED to give us more hotbars.As a templar I have all 10 hotbars used already.</blockquote>Its mostly a leveling spell, its honestly not that good at level 90 and prolly not worth putting on your hotbar then. You will probably outgrow it around level ~30 depending on your class. </blockquote>Then why bother? If people are currently bothered by the spam of abilities that are underutilized and a lack of clarity of abilities, why give them yet another spell to add into that? True newbies don't run parsers either-- not that you need one to figure out a spell is useless but, the newbies( and some vets) who come across this spell will be tempted to use it long past its usefulness. Rather than another Splitpaw spell, why not a temp buff? I'd prefer stances if it's really an issue but those are currently TSO endlines and they don't seem to have the desire to completely retool.</blockquote>You act as if there is not several other damage spells a healer never uses at higher levels. The fact is which you seem to miss this spell is for the period in time when a healer has FEW damage abilites to level with. At higher levels healers have SEVERAL damage spells acquired through AA's and ancients that heplp thier dps and soloing. While I agree this spell should just be an extension of exsisting damage abilites granted earlier to healers and I do not care much for scaling spells since they are generally weaker then most other spells. This new spell does fix this issue and is NOT meant for end game raiders to up thier healers parses.This is the same reason why I think the class a ability attacks should be enhancements to existing spells instead of entirely new spells.</blockquote>I don't miss that the spell is for the early game. If you read what I actually said, I'm making the point that we already have too many abilities we don't use already, why add another when you can shift pre-existing spells down or otherwise fix the problem long term.You're a bit hostile even when people agree with you, may want to tone it down or take a moment to read what's said.</blockquote>Not being hostile maybe you take people disagreeing with your premise as hostile. Simple question then.When you recieve this spell how many abilites do you have and why do you think having less then 1 hotbar of spells is to many abilites.How many damage abilites do healers receive and at what level do these abilites become excessive?The fact is you are not going to see alot of damage abilites as a healer until you acquire enough AA or levels to reach those damage abilites and you likely wouldnt see those higher damage abilites until 30+.Although as i said before i agree i rather they move preexisting abilites down 1 level then offer a new scaling spell. But since all 3 healer types do not share a common damage abilites they took the easy route instead of looking for a damage ability they could of lowered down a tier for each.

kcirrot

06-28-2010, 03:58 PM

<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shimmer@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Seriously..... if you keep giving us spells. You NEED to give us more hotbars.As a templar I have all 10 hotbars used already.</blockquote>Its mostly a leveling spell, its honestly not that good at level 90 and prolly not worth putting on your hotbar then. You will probably outgrow it around level ~30 depending on your class. </blockquote>Then why bother? If people are currently bothered by the spam of abilities that are underutilized and a lack of clarity of abilities, why give them yet another spell to add into that? True newbies don't run parsers either-- not that you need one to figure out a spell is useless but, the newbies( and some vets) who come across this spell will be tempted to use it long past its usefulness. Rather than another Splitpaw spell, why not a temp buff? I'd prefer stances if it's really an issue but those are currently TSO endlines and they don't seem to have the desire to completely retool.</blockquote>You act as if there is not several other damage spells a healer never uses at higher levels. The fact is which you seem to miss this spell is for the period in time when a healer has FEW damage abilites to level with. At higher levels healers have SEVERAL damage spells acquired through AA's and ancients that heplp thier dps and soloing. While I agree this spell should just be an extension of exsisting damage abilites granted earlier to healers and I do not care much for scaling spells since they are generally weaker then most other spells. This new spell does fix this issue and is NOT meant for end game raiders to up thier healers parses.This is the same reason why I think the class a ability attacks should be enhancements to existing spells instead of entirely new spells.</blockquote>I don't miss that the spell is for the early game. If you read what I actually said, I'm making the point that we already have too many abilities we don't use already, why add another when you can shift pre-existing spells down or otherwise fix the problem long term.You're a bit hostile even when people agree with you, may want to tone it down or take a moment to read what's said.</blockquote>Not being hostile maybe you take people disagreeing with your premise as hostile. Simple question then.When you recieve this spell how many abilites do you have and why do you think having less then 1 hotbar of spells is to many abilites.How many damage abilites do healers receive and at what level do these abilites become excessive?The fact is you are not going to see alot of damage abilites as a healer until you acquire enough AA or levels to reach those damage abilites and you likely wouldnt see those higher damage abilites until 30+.Although as i said before i agree i rather they move preexisting abilites down 1 level then offer a new scaling spell. But since all 3 healer types do not share a common damage abilites they took the easy route instead of looking for a damage ability they could of lowered down a tier for each.</blockquote>Actually, all priests get their four basic damage abilities at the same levels: 1, 3, 23, 32 (Encounter AoE).I would prefer that Wrath be changed to an earlier version of the 23 damage spell. That will make more sense for newer players and if the spell isn't intended to be used after the 20s anyway, might as well avoid the scaling nonsense.

Deson

06-28-2010, 04:31 PM

<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shimmer@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Seriously..... if you keep giving us spells. You NEED to give us more hotbars.As a templar I have all 10 hotbars used already.</blockquote>Its mostly a leveling spell, its honestly not that good at level 90 and prolly not worth putting on your hotbar then. You will probably outgrow it around level ~30 depending on your class. </blockquote>Then why bother? If people are currently bothered by the spam of abilities that are underutilized and a lack of clarity of abilities, why give them yet another spell to add into that? True newbies don't run parsers either-- not that you need one to figure out a spell is useless but, the newbies( and some vets) who come across this spell will be tempted to use it long past its usefulness. Rather than another Splitpaw spell, why not a temp buff? I'd prefer stances if it's really an issue but those are currently TSO endlines and they don't seem to have the desire to completely retool.</blockquote>You act as if there is not several other damage spells a healer never uses at higher levels. The fact is which you seem to miss this spell is for the period in time when a healer has FEW damage abilites to level with. At higher levels healers have SEVERAL damage spells acquired through AA's and ancients that heplp thier dps and soloing. While I agree this spell should just be an extension of exsisting damage abilites granted earlier to healers and I do not care much for scaling spells since they are generally weaker then most other spells. This new spell does fix this issue and is NOT meant for end game raiders to up thier healers parses.This is the same reason why I think the class a ability attacks should be enhancements to existing spells instead of entirely new spells.</blockquote>I don't miss that the spell is for the early game. If you read what I actually said, I'm making the point that we already have too many abilities we don't use already, why add another when you can shift pre-existing spells down or otherwise fix the problem long term.You're a bit hostile even when people agree with you, may want to tone it down or take a moment to read what's said.</blockquote>Not being hostile maybe you take people disagreeing with your premise as hostile. Simple question then.When you recieve this spell how many abilites do you have and why do you think having less then 1 hotbar of spells is to many abilites.How many damage abilites do healers receive and at what level do these abilites become excessive?The fact is you are not going to see alot of damage abilites as a healer until you acquire enough AA or levels to reach those damage abilites and you likely wouldnt see those higher damage abilites until 30+.Although as i said before i agree i rather they move preexisting abilites down 1 level then offer a new scaling spell. But since all 3 healer types do not share a common damage abilites they took the easy route instead of looking for a damage ability they could of lowered down a tier for each.</blockquote>The accusation that I missed someting and that I'm acting like there aren't other less than ideal spells is in fact hostile and nowhere in my post. You did the same thing in a previous discussion and I had to make the same point. Stop reading what I'm not saying and attributing to me what I have not said or implied.It's not that having one hotbar is too many it's that the focus should be reducing how many useless abilities you get for the whole game and making what you do get long term viable. While certainly this spell can be useful, there are other viable options that don't end up being like the Splitpaw spell or other now useless abilities. Again, I don't disagree with you, and think there are better ways to accomplish the same goal. They could even keep the crappy food/drink spell and make it some kind of dps booster. They should not be taking the easy route when long term it's a setup for bigger failure. Do it right once and we won't have to revisit the issue or see the inevitable threads on how much the spell sucks like we do every other useless ability.

Landiin

06-28-2010, 05:03 PM

See thats my thing, if they want to make the early lvl fun and say no one groups; then move all of the dmg spells to the lower 20 levels then start adding the buffs heals and utilities. After all the game has turned into who can DPS so they might as well start every one out learning that first thing.

Gungo

06-28-2010, 05:34 PM

<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote>The accusation that I missed someting and that I'm acting like there aren't other less than ideal spells is in fact hostile and nowhere in my post. You did the same thing in a previous discussion and I had to make the same point. Stop reading what I'm not saying and attributing to me what I have not said or implied.</blockquote>Your post CLEARLY assumed you missed something since the ENTIRE point of the spell was for lower levels to level easier and your reply to that issue was and I quote.<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote>Then why bother? If people are currently bothered by the spam of abilities that are underutilized and a lack of clarity of abilities, why give them yet another spell to add into that?</blockquote>You seem to miss the entire point that this spell is NOT meant for higher levels. Until they rework the entire game we DO and always will have to deal with excessive abilities. We always will have to deal with having 6-10 hotbars at the higher levels. This spell IS useful for the lower levels and in NO such way spams them with a useless ability. They are removing auto grant abilites that are LESS useful early and more useful later And they are introducing in this ability an ability that is MORE useful early and less useful later. The hostility in this thread SOLELY exists in your ability to not except this fact and arguing with opinions that differ from your own.

Deson

06-28-2010, 05:50 PM

<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote>The accusation that I missed someting and that I'm acting like there aren't other less than ideal spells is in fact hostile and nowhere in my post. You did the same thing in a previous discussion and I had to make the same point. Stop reading what I'm not saying and attributing to me what I have not said or implied.</blockquote>Your post CLEARLY assumed you missed something since the ENTIRE point of the spell was for lower levels to level easier and your reply to that issue was and I quote.<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote>Then why bother? If people are currently bothered by the spam of abilities that are underutilized and a lack of clarity of abilities, why give them yet another spell to add into that?</blockquote>You seem to miss the entire point that this spell is NOT meant for higher levels. Until they rework the entire game we DO and always will have to deal with excessive abilities. We always will have to deal with having 6-10 hotbars at the higher levels. This spell IS useful for the lower levels and in NO such way spams them with a useless ability. They are removing auto grant abilites that are LESS useful early and more useful later And they are introducing in this ability an ability that is MORE useful early and less useful later. The hostility in this thread SOLELY exists in your ability to not except this fact and arguing with opinions that differ from your own.</blockquote>No, it exists because youre reading into it. My post was pointing out that part of the overall change is to reduce confusing early spam. We also had a huge amount of changes to reduce complexity. The low levels go fast, very fast. The spell is going to meet its specific function but that function is really only a few levels and there are other, better options that don't have newbies wondering when they hit the late 20's early thirties, "Why does this spell suck" or add another ability of limited usefullnes they'll try to make work long past its expiration. So yes, why bother adding the spell for true newbies when you can add another spell that is long term useful in its place. Why bother adding a spell when its actually at odds with your other stated goals?Really, stop being so agressive. If you don't like what I'm saying or otherwise disagree, ask me to clarify or address the point wihout implying I don't have a clue. I said nothing of the auto-grant changes either.

Gungo

06-28-2010, 06:06 PM

<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote>My post was pointing out that part of the overall change is to reduce confusing early spam.</blockquote>I made a mistake and had given you more credit then you deserve. If you think they are ADDING a new damage spell in part of an OVERALL change to REDUCE confusing early spam, then there is obviously no point in talking to you since that entire point makes absolutely no sense.They are adding a NEW spell to make leveling easier for healers. It has nothing to do with confusing early spam. They are removing other group oriented spells in order to reduce confusing early spam. Both objectives are mutually exclusive. You can continue your passive aggressive attitude but I am sorry; you ARE missing the point.

Deson

06-28-2010, 06:19 PM

<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote>My post was pointing out that part of the overall change is to reduce confusing early spam.</blockquote>I made a mistake and had given you more credit then you deserve. If you think they are ADDING a new damage spell in part of an OVERALL change to REDUCE confusing early spam, then there is obviously no point in talking to you since that entire point makes absolutely no sense.They are adding a NEW spell to make leveling easier for healers. It has nothing to do with confusing early spam. They are removing other group oriented spells in order to reduce confusing early spam. Both objectives are mutually exclusive. You can continue your passive aggressive attitude but I am sorry; you ARE missing the point.</blockquote>I made a mistake thinking apealing to your sense of actual discussion without being needlessly aggressive would mean something. I pointed that part out because as part of the overall philosophy to the changes, they're trying to reduce needless abilities hitting true EQ2 newbies. This spell, while having a specific purpose, runs afoul of that because it's an ability of limited usefulness when other, longer term options are availible. A player will still be an EQ2 newbie into the thirties, and adding useless abilities just creates issues all its own inconsistent with the other philosophical reasons presented for changes over the past just over a year. I may not be making the point as clealy as possible but there's no way you should be reading it the way you are at this point unless you're trying to assume people who dont say exactly what you want are stupid and ignorant.

Rick777

06-28-2010, 06:40 PM

Gungo

06-28-2010, 06:41 PM

<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote>My post was pointing out that part of the overall change is to reduce confusing early spam.</blockquote>I made a mistake and had given you more credit then you deserve. If you think they are ADDING a new damage spell in part of an OVERALL change to REDUCE confusing early spam, then there is obviously no point in talking to you since that entire point makes absolutely no sense.They are adding a NEW spell to make leveling easier for healers. It has nothing to do with confusing early spam. They are removing other group oriented spells in order to reduce confusing early spam. Both objectives are mutually exclusive. You can continue your passive aggressive attitude but I am sorry; you ARE missing the point.</blockquote>I made a mistake thinking apealing to your sense of actual discussion without being needlessly aggressive would mean something. I pointed that part out because as part of the overall philosophy to the changes, they're trying to reduce needless abilities hitting true EQ2 newbies. This spell, while having a specific purpose, runs afoul of that because it's an ability of limited usefulness when other, longer term options are availible. A player will still be an EQ2 newbie into the thirties, and adding useless abilities just creates issues all its own inconsistent with the other philosophical reasons presented for changes over the past just over a year. I may not be making the point as clealy as possible but there's no way you should be reading it the way you are at this point unless you're trying to assume people who dont say exactly what you want are stupid and ignorant.</blockquote>I only read insofar as what you type. If you feel you are portraying your thoughts in an illthought manner then maybe that is the case. I agree with the conclusion that a better spell for healers could be chosen to be brought down a tier as we discussed, but that is as far as my agreement goes with your rational. I do not believe a HIGHLY useful low level spell given early and becomes less useful as you progress is confusing in the same way as a low level spell that is useless early on and begins to become more useful later does. I do not beleive that SOE is running afoul of thier purpose of reducing needless abilities hitting true newbies since this spell is the EXACT opposite of that intended goal. It has a clear defined use early on and gradually is less useful as we inheret and learn more and more abilites. You are making the grand assumption that eq2 players in thier mid to late levels are still true newbies. And then you making assumptions that these newbies would lack the forethought to understand how a simple DD nuke relates to other damage abilites. I still think you miss the point regardless of how emphatically sensitive you are about people disagreeing with you.

Deson

06-28-2010, 08:37 PM

<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote>My post was pointing out that part of the overall change is to reduce confusing early spam.</blockquote>I made a mistake and had given you more credit then you deserve. If you think they are ADDING a new damage spell in part of an OVERALL change to REDUCE confusing early spam, then there is obviously no point in talking to you since that entire point makes absolutely no sense.They are adding a NEW spell to make leveling easier for healers. It has nothing to do with confusing early spam. They are removing other group oriented spells in order to reduce confusing early spam. Both objectives are mutually exclusive. You can continue your passive aggressive attitude but I am sorry; you ARE missing the point.</blockquote>I made a mistake thinking apealing to your sense of actual discussion without being needlessly aggressive would mean something. I pointed that part out because as part of the overall philosophy to the changes, they're trying to reduce needless abilities hitting true EQ2 newbies. This spell, while having a specific purpose, runs afoul of that because it's an ability of limited usefulness when other, longer term options are availible. A player will still be an EQ2 newbie into the thirties, and adding useless abilities just creates issues all its own inconsistent with the other philosophical reasons presented for changes over the past just over a year. I may not be making the point as clealy as possible but there's no way you should be reading it the way you are at this point unless you're trying to assume people who dont say exactly what you want are stupid and ignorant.</blockquote>I only read insofar as what you type. If you feel you are portraying your thoughts in an illthought manner then maybe that is the case. I agree with the conclusion that a better spell for healers could be chosen to be brought down a tier as we discussed, but that is as far as my agreement goes with your rational. I do not believe a HIGHLY useful low level spell given early and becomes less useful as you progress is confusing in the same way as a low level spell that is useless early on and begins to become more useful later does. I do not beleive that SOE is running afoul of thier purpose of reducing needless abilities hitting true newbies since this spell is the EXACT opposite of that intended goal. It has a clear defined use early on and gradually is less useful as we inheret and learn more and more abilites. You are making the grand assumption that eq2 players in thier mid to late levels are still true newbies. And then you making assumptions that these newbies would lack the forethought to understand how a simple DD nuke relates to other damage abilites. I still think you miss the point regardless of how emphatically sensitive you are about people disagreeing with you.</blockquote>I'm not sensitive about it. I care only that your style is counter productive, wastes time and generates animosity as exampled in multiple recent threads, distracting from actual discussion in dev view. We agree, but rather than discuss the point we obviously agree on or ask for clarity, you choose to treat others as less than you.It's not confusing in the same way. If I implied it was, I apologize. Regardless, it still adds to the clutter that the overall goal has been to reduce for years now. There are EQ2 vets who have played for years that are still practically newbies but that's neither here nor there, I only brought it up because it's inconsistent with the overall philosophy described for over a year now. Why make changes just for the newbie game when you can look at the game as a whole and be entirely consistent? There is no need to even risk the confusion of players who just want to play and not have to think much if at all with a new ability when an ability grant shift does just fine. If the spell isn't going to be useful the whole game and you don't intend to auto-remove it once it gets past the life expectancy, why even add it?

Illmarr

06-30-2010, 10:58 AM

Way I see it, they are replacing an utterly useless spell (Summon food/drink) With a spell that people seem to peg as having a useful shelf life of about 32 levels. Seems like a win in that regard.Also, even if it's underpowered at 90, with it's quick casting time, it's something else you can cast and get a chance to proc any number of useful effects. It's not like a Priest (Especially melee) has 2 hotbars full of CAs so they never have a time when all damage abilities are greyed out. In Heroic content I could still see using this just for that reason alone.Would it be nice if it was better? Sure. But look at what it's replacing and where in your adventuring life you get it and seems like a good move with a small tweak to either a damage boost as you level or a shorter cooldown.

zelocka01

07-06-2010, 01:10 PM

I don’t think a misc damage spell is really what’s needed. How about a recovery (self only mana and health) spell and scales with level with a long recast.+25% mana and health3 min recastInstant castNice simple and every priest will use it and it doesn’t step on any other abilities.

Deson

07-06-2010, 02:14 PM

<cite>Vestian@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don’t think a misc damage spell is really what’s needed. How about a recovery (self only mana and health) spell and scales with level with a long recast.+25% mana and health3 min recastInstant castNice simple and every priest will use it and it doesn’t step on any other abilities.</blockquote>Suggestion doesn't meet the stated goal of the spell. Stated goal was to aid priests in the lower levels before they get a decent amount of damage spells.

Sharakari

07-06-2010, 03:41 PM

Get rid of Feast and Brambles! THOSE are usless!

zelocka01

07-06-2010, 04:17 PM

<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vestian@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don’t think a misc damage spell is really what’s needed. How about a recovery (self only mana and health) spell and scales with level with a long recast.+25% mana and health3 min recastInstant castNice simple and every priest will use it and it doesn’t step on any other abilities.</blockquote>Suggestion doesn't meet the stated goal of the spell. Stated goal was to aid priests in the lower levels before they get a decent amount of damage spells.</blockquote>Priests all get 2 damage spells by level 4. Why would we need another? 2 is as many Mages get outside there AOE spell.I am saying directly that both the spell and the stated perpose are not well thought out. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> If they want to make things easyer for new player this is not a good way.

Deson

07-06-2010, 04:32 PM

<cite>Vestian@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vestian@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don’t think a misc damage spell is really what’s needed. How about a recovery (self only mana and health) spell and scales with level with a long recast.+25% mana and health3 min recastInstant castNice simple and every priest will use it and it doesn’t step on any other abilities.</blockquote>Suggestion doesn't meet the stated goal of the spell. Stated goal was to aid priests in the lower levels before they get a decent amount of damage spells.</blockquote>Priests all get 2 damage spells by level 4. Why would we need another? 2 is as many Mages get outside there AOE spell.I am saying directly that both the spell and the stated perpose are not well thought out. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /> If they want to make things easyer for new player this is not a good way.</blockquote>By all means,post what you think here if you haven't already:<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=481664" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=481664</a>

zelocka01

07-06-2010, 05:17 PM

Pift <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" /> I like it here. Its roomy.No one needs a another single target damage spell. Hell you can get at least 4 more in the first 5 AA you get in the main AA tree at level 10. If they want to add a damage spell it should be AOE if anything and really I still don't see the need unless its blue and if they did that it would beat out mages again for level.You could add a proc buff but that hurts players that don't melayYou could have a summon focus item but that's better handled with itemization generally.You could add a self only buff that adds +ability or crit but that kind of lacks the wow factor

Barx

07-06-2010, 05:22 PM

<cite>Vestian@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vestian@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don’t think a misc damage spell is really what’s needed. How about a recovery (self only mana and health) spell and scales with level with a long recast.+25% mana and health3 min recastInstant castNice simple and every priest will use it and it doesn’t step on any other abilities.</blockquote>Suggestion doesn't meet the stated goal of the spell. Stated goal was to aid priests in the lower levels before they get a decent amount of damage spells.</blockquote>Priests all get 2 damage spells by level 4. Why would we need another? 2 is as many Mages get outside there AOE spell.I am saying directly that both the spell and the stated perpose are not well thought out. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /> If they want to make things easyer for new player this is not a good way.</blockquote>Raw # of spells isn't a good metric. Compare the combined damage/time of the spells, I'm betting priests get significantly less (oh, and an AOE spell certainly counts, if anything it can count more for multiple-mobs).

zelocka01

07-06-2010, 05:25 PM

<cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vestian@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vestian@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don’t think a misc damage spell is really what’s needed. How about a recovery (self only mana and health) spell and scales with level with a long recast.+25% mana and health3 min recastInstant castNice simple and every priest will use it and it doesn’t step on any other abilities.</blockquote>Suggestion doesn't meet the stated goal of the spell. Stated goal was to aid priests in the lower levels before they get a decent amount of damage spells.</blockquote>Priests all get 2 damage spells by level 4. Why would we need another? 2 is as many Mages get outside there AOE spell.I am saying directly that both the spell and the stated perpose are not well thought out. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /> If they want to make things easyer for new player this is not a good way.</blockquote>Raw # of spells isn't a good metric. Compare the combined damage/time of the spells, I'm betting priests get significantly less (oh, and an AOE spell certainly counts, if anything it can count more for multiple-mobs).</blockquote>Without question but adding more spells dosnt help that. Upping the damage on spells you already get the the solution to that.And really I dont think the damage is so bad. Its that Priest spells get much fewer upgrades leading to haveing very out of date damage for some levels. (8 for example)

LardLord

07-07-2010, 02:57 AM

The spell is ~30% more efficient than Invocation VIII at 90, so it's definitely worth having and worth casting for Inquisitors.The only reason it's not more efficient for me than Heretic's Doom against single targets is that I have the AA that adds 50% potency to that spell.<img src="http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss175/TheOtherDude/testspell.jpg" />

kcirrot

07-07-2010, 04:59 AM

<cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>The spell is ~30% more efficient than Invocation VIII at 90, so it's definitely worth having and worth casting for Inquisitors.The only reason it's not more efficient for me than Heretic's Doom against single targets is that I have the AA that adds 50% potency to that spell.<img src="http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss175/TheOtherDude/testspell.jpg" /></blockquote>I'm confused. How is Wrath more efficient than Invocation?For ease, I'm just using minimum values:Invocation:DPS - 2271/(1.3+2.1)=667Damage per Power point=2271/73=31.1Wrath:DPS - 1835/(.65+7.1)=236.77Damage per Power point=1835/108=16.99So it costs more to deliver less DPS. Unless there is a gap in your attack chain (which if those are you only attack spells, there is) I don't see why you would cast Wrath.

LardLord

07-07-2010, 02:54 PM

<cite>kcirrot wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm confused. How is Wrath more efficient than Invocation?For ease, I'm just using minimum values:Invocation:DPS - 2271/(1.3+2.1)=667Damage per Power point=2271/73=31.1Wrath:DPS - 1835/(.65+7.1)=236.77Damage per Power point=1835/108=16.99So it costs more to deliver less DPS. Unless there is a gap in your attack chain (which if those are you only attack spells, there is) I don't see why you would cast Wrath.</blockquote>I was referring to DPS, though you can see that it is more power-efficient than Litany against single targets.For DPS efficiency calculations, you need to factor in recovery time (default 0.5 seconds) but not recast time. When deciding if something is worth casting, you care about how much of your time it is going to take up (which includes the recovery time where you can't do anything), but you don't care when you'll get your next chance to cast it.Using minimum damage:Invocation - 2271 / (1.3 + 0.5) = 1262Wrath - 1835 / (0.65 + 0.5) = 1596

Deson

07-07-2010, 03:03 PM

<cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>kcirrot wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm confused. How is Wrath more efficient than Invocation?For ease, I'm just using minimum values:Invocation:DPS - 2271/(1.3+2.1)=667Damage per Power point=2271/73=31.1Wrath:DPS - 1835/(.65+7.1)=236.77Damage per Power point=1835/108=16.99So it costs more to deliver less DPS. Unless there is a gap in your attack chain (which if those are you only attack spells, there is) I don't see why you would cast Wrath.</blockquote>I was referring to DPS, though you can see that it is more power-efficient than Litany against single targets.For DPS efficiency calculations, you need to factor in recovery time (default 0.5 seconds) but not recast time. When deciding if something is worth casting, you care about how much of your time it is going to take up (which includes the recovery time where you can't do anything), but you don't care when you'll get your next chance to cast it.Using minimum damage:Invocation - 2271 / (1.3 + 0.5) = 1262Wrath - 1835 / (0.65 + 0.5) = 1596</blockquote>You don't use Invocation Strike?

LardLord

07-07-2010, 03:33 PM

<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote>You don't use Invocation Strike?</blockquote>Inquisitors who are using CAs will likely find use for it as well when they're CAs are all on cooldown and their punishment spells are on the mob.

Crismorn

07-07-2010, 03:34 PM

You would actually lose dps by casting this, terrible

Deson

07-07-2010, 03:44 PM

<cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote>You don't use Invocation Strike?</blockquote>Inquisitors who are using CAs will likely find use for it as well when they're CAs are all on cooldown and their punishment spells are on the mob.</blockquote>I don't. With modest SF gear just from soloing, I rarely have a gap in my order not better suited to another skill. The spell does exactly what it's supposed to but trying to justify it being usable at 90 is a stretch. Sure it can be occasionally cast but at that point you have CA's, spells and debuffs enough to be full most of the time and auto attack will be your big damage contributor. Given the continuous power costs of an Inq, the power is better not spent.

LardLord

07-07-2010, 04:04 PM

<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't. With modest SF gear just from soloing, I rarely have a gap in my order not better suited to another skill. The spell does exactly what it's supposed to but trying to justify it being usable at 90 is a stretch. Sure it can be occasionally cast but at that point you have CA's, spells and debuffs enough to be full most of the time and auto attack will be your big damage contributor. Given the continuous power costs of an Inq, the power is better not spent.</blockquote>I'll give you that it is a bit of a stretch to use at 90, but as you said yourself, you will have time to cast it occassionally. The power situation may be worth considering in your solo gear while solo'ing, but I'd take the extra damage for 108 power without worrying in almost every situation.EDIT: Well screw it, it is really pretty much worthless when using CAs as an Inq. I was looking at an "apples to apples" comparison between spells, and it is worth using in that case, but saying that it will be usable with CAs as well was a jump that I didn't really think through.

Deson

07-07-2010, 04:21 PM

<cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't. With modest SF gear just from soloing, I rarely have a gap in my order not better suited to another skill. The spell does exactly what it's supposed to but trying to justify it being usable at 90 is a stretch. Sure it can be occasionally cast but at that point you have CA's, spells and debuffs enough to be full most of the time and auto attack will be your big damage contributor. Given the continuous power costs of an Inq, the power is better not spent.</blockquote>I'll give you that it is a bit of a stretch to use at 90, but as you said yourself, you will have time to cast it occassionally. The power situation may be worth considering in your solo gear while solo'ing, but I'd take the extra damage for 108 power without worrying in almost every situation.</blockquote>This is another reason I'm worried about it. Given all the melee benefits an Inq has combined with the contiuous power costs, you come out better just waiting for your auto attack. If you're in a decently balanced group, the spell shouldn't even be a thought because all the other buffs should keep you either swinging fast enough to eliminate the gaps in casting or recasting fast enough to have better options. That's all without even touching that at some point you're going to have to heal and that gives a lot of your spells time to recover. Once you hit mid levels, this spell can end up being more harm than good to solid play. That's just me as an Inq and Defiler player though; I can't speak for other healers at upper levels.<cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't. With modest SF gear just from soloing, I rarely have a gap in my order not better suited to another skill. The spell does exactly what it's supposed to but trying to justify it being usable at 90 is a stretch. Sure it can be occasionally cast but at that point you have CA's, spells and debuffs enough to be full most of the time and auto attack will be your big damage contributor. Given the continuous power costs of an Inq, the power is better not spent.</blockquote>I'll give you that it is a bit of a stretch to use at 90, but as you said yourself, you will have time to cast it occassionally. The power situation may be worth considering in your solo gear while solo'ing, but I'd take the extra damage for 108 power without worrying in almost every situation.EDIT: Well screw it, it is really pretty much worthless when using CAs as an Inq. I was looking at an "apples to apples" comparison between spells, and it is worth using in that case, but saying that it will be usable with CAs as well was a jump that I didn't really think through.</blockquote>Just caught the edit. You mind posting the same type comparison you did before?

LardLord

07-07-2010, 05:43 PM

Well here's how the spell compares to CAs with the test copy gear/spec I happen to be using...<img src="http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss175/TheOtherDude/testspellcas.jpg" />Honestly, people will probably get some use out of the spell at 90, even CA-using Inquisitors, but it's just a very minor issue that isn't worth arguing about. If you assume PotM and CoB are up, Wrath probably edges out Skull Crack and Hammer Divine Smite (rank 4s), especially if you take the spell damage potency in the INT line (which I do not have for these screenshots). Then again, if you're casting any heals at all, you may not even be getting to Skull Crack or Hammer Smite in your order...so yeah, not worth arguing about.

kcirrot

07-07-2010, 07:15 PM