Spell Advancement Feedback

[Sydares]

<p><cite>Test Update 6/22 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>SPELL ADVANCEMENTScouts will no longer automatically receive “Evade” at level 6.Assassins will no longer automatically receive “Murderous Design” at level 11.Rangers will no longer automatically receive “Primal Reflexes” at level 11.Assassins will now be granted Villainy at level 11.Rangers will now be granted “Hunter’s Instinct” at level 11.Assassins and Rangers now gain the new spell “Hilt Strike” at level 6.Fighters will no longer automatically receive “Intercept” at level 6.Berserkers will no longer automatically receive Mock and Mock II.Guardians will no longer automatically receive Provoke and Provoke II.Berserkers will no longer automatically receive “Enrage” at level 8.Guardians will no longer automatically receive “Shout” at level 8.The Guardian ability “Shield Bash” is now “Bash” and no longer requires a shield.The Berserker ability “Body Check” no longer requires a shield.“Wall of Rage” for Berserkers and “Hunker Down” for Guardians no longer snare the caster.Guardians now receive “Bash II” at level 8.Guardians now receive “Overpower II” at level 6.Guardians now receive “Never Surrender” at level 21.Guardians now receive “Battle Tactics” at level 18.Guardians now receive “Forward Charge II” at level 16.Berserkers now receive “Body Check” at level 8.Berserkers now receive “Rupture II” at level 6.Berserkers now receive “Reckless Aide” at level 21.Berserkers now receive “Destructive Rage” at level 18.Berserkers now receive “Abandoned Fury II” at level 16.Priests will no longer receive the spell “Summon Food and Water.”Priests will now receive “Wrath” at level 6.Clerics will now receive “Soothe” at level 30.Mages will no longer gain “Bind Sight” automatically. It is now a fun spell and can be bought from the class trainers.Warlocks will no longer automatically get “Nullify” at level 10.Wizards will no longer automatically get “Cease” at level 10.Dispel Magic is now Absorb Magic and now also drains a small amount of power. It no longer has a power cost.Vital Transfer and Void Contract now cost less health to cast below level 40.Wizards will now gain “Ice Spears” at level 4.Warlocks will now get “Vacuum Field” at level 4.Paladins will no longer automatically receive “Clarion” and “Clarion II.”Crusaders will no longer automatically receive “Pledge of Armament” at level 17.“Hateful Slam” and “Heroic Dash” no longer require a shield or symbol equipped.Shadowknights will now receive “Devious Evasion” at level 21.Paladins will now receive “Resolute Faith” at level 21.Shadowknights will now receive “Unholy Strength” at level 18.Paladins will now receive “Crusade” at level 18.Shadowknights will now receive “Dark Blade II” at level 16.Paladins will now receive “Wrath Stance II” at level 16.Monks will no longer automatically receive “Silent Threat” and “Silent Threat II.”Bruisers will no longer automatically receive “Slurred Insult” and “Slurred Insult II.”Monks will no longer automatically receive “Challenge” at level 8.Bruisers will no longer automatically receive “Abuse” at level 8.Monks will now receive “Tranquil Vision” at level 21.Bruisers will now receive “Shrug Off” at level 21.Monks will now receive “Flow Like Wind II” at level 16.Bruisers will now receive “Smoldering Fists II” at level 16.Troubadors now receive “Vexing Verses” at level 6.Dirges now receive “Tarven’s Crippling Crescendo” at level 6.Brigands now receive “Mug” at level 6.Swashbucklers now receive “Double-Cross” at level 6.Coercers will no longer automatically receive “Mesmerize” at level 1.Illusionists will no longer automatically receive “Entrance” at level 1.“Shift Mana” and “Extract Mana” now have a lower health cost at low levels.“Aqueous Stone” is now “Aqueous Soul” and no longer summons an item that grants water breathing. It now simply casts water breathing on the target.Summoners will now receive their first version of Vampire Bats at level 10.</p></blockquote><p>I'm totally liking what I'm seeing. Moar, please.</p>

[Raahl]

<p>Interesting.  I wonder what the point is for all this lower level CA/spell changes.  I didn't realize that there were that many issues at lower levels.</p><p>I do like the bash changes for guardian and the changes to Hunker Down.</p>

[KaleMuteki]

<p>I'm a little confused, so do Paladin's now have to buy their primary Taunt for the first two versions?</p><p>I like the Dispel Magic change, as well as the bash and Warrior defensive ability changes.</p>

[Gungo]

<p>The lower level spells were mostly out of place. Where after the spell changes we would recieve an upgrade to a spell every 10 level the first 20 levels were all over the place. I am not entirely sure the motive on the restriction of the automatic upgrades especially for taunts and such. Maybe it was done to promote crafting?</p>

[FimisOrbe]

<p>The question is, how this will affect some new Players. Some didn't even know that there was the Anicent Teachings before auto receiving. Somehow I think they will complete miss the spells that got took out now.</p><p>I did only check on a high lvl char, spells are still around, but to not auto receive them can be realy bad for new players, if they don't check everything carefully.</p>

[Gungo]

<p>i have a feeling the patch notes were not fully posted/explained.</p>

[Cyliena]

<p><em><strong><span >Scouts will no longer automatically receive “Evade” at level 6.</span></strong></em></p><p>My Swashbuckler on Test Copy still has Evade at level 6. Not to mention, why would evade be removed, or am I simply missing something?</p>

[Sydares]

<p>I believe these "will no longer automatically receive" things are implying that you will now receive those spells at later levels.</p>

[Hanokh2010]

<p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i have a feeling the patch notes were not fully posted/explained.</p></blockquote><p>I sure hope you are correct.  A tanks main task is to hold aggro and the taunts are being taken away?  Also, fighter HO are based on taunts.  Are Heroic Ops being removed?</p>

[Sydares]

<p><cite>Hanokh2010 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Are Heroic Ops being removed?</p></blockquote><p>I don't think we're that lucky, but I would dance for joy if that were true.</p>

[KrysHawk]

<p>I'm presuming the following is a result of the Spell Advancement rethink...</p><p>My Bruiser's solo HO chains have been revised, Abuse and Slurred Insult are no longer the finishing moves of a HO.</p><p>This is now triggered by Meteor Fist, Shoulder Charge, Beatdown and bizarrely Smouldering Fists (if you are already using this stance you have to cancel it and re-apply to complete the chain).</p><p>The big change in this is that the taunts were on 10 sec and 8 sec re-use timers, whereas the new finishers are all on 30 sec cooldowns.</p><p>I haven't used a parser to see what change this makes to dps etc but it's made planning my HO's a lot more critical as it's easy to run out of options in a prolonged fight and very tempting to use Beatdown when it starts to flash and end up adding nearby mobs to the equation.</p><p>It would be useful to know if the effects from the HO's have been increased now that we can't squeeze as many into a fight. </p><p>HO's have always been presented as being an important tool, providing extra damage and added short term buffs - I hope that isn't being nerfed!</p>

[Hanokh2010]

<p>Why would you want to remove them?  Low DPS classes are already painful to play, why take away a large portion of that DPS?</p>

[Hanokh2010]

<p><cite>KrysHawk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm presuming the following is a result of the Spell Advancement rethink...</p><p>My Bruiser's solo HO chains have been revised, Abuse and Slurred Insult are no longer the finishing moves of a HO.</p><p>This is now triggered by Meteor Fist, Shoulder Charge, Beatdown <span style="color: #ff0000;">and bizarrely Smouldering Fists (if you are already using this stance you have to cancel it and re-apply to complete the chain).</span></p><p>The big change in this is that the taunts were on 10 sec and 8 sec re-use timers, whereas the new finishers are all on 30 sec cooldowns.</p><p>I haven't used a parser to see what change this makes to dps etc but it's made planning my HO's a lot more critical as it's easy to run out of options in a prolonged fight and very tempting to use Beatdown when it starts to flash and end up adding nearby mobs to the equation.</p><p>It would be useful to know if the effects from the HO's have been increased now that we can't squeeze as many into a fight. </p><p>HO's have always been presented as being an important tool, providing extra damage and added short term buffs - I hope that isn't being nerfed!</p></blockquote><p>Absolutely brilliant!  Does anyone making these changes even know how to play the game?  Turning stances on and off repeatedly is ridiculous.</p>

[Sydares]

<p><cite>Hanokh2010 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Why would you want to remove them?  Low DPS classes are already painful to play, why take away a large portion of that DPS?</p></blockquote><p>They're outdated and annoying. I hate them!</p>

[KrysHawk]

<p>The Smouldering Fists one does seem very odd esp if you have the opposite stance running at the time you would have to cancel that one, hit Smouldering Fists to complete the HO and then re-apply the defensive stance.</p><p>However, I haven't cleared up yet as to whether it provides a different HO buff or DMG effect yet - it certainly uses a new graphical display when you finish the HO so I need to check that out further.</p><p>And it would be sensible for me to use a parser on Test and on Live to compare the DPS/DMG/Buff difference (hopefully someone is already doing that).</p>

[KaleMuteki]

<p>I could understand if they decided to change the spell progression.  For all pre-50 spells, and maybe some pre-70, can't remember exactly, the spell-progression is on a mostly 14-level difference progression.  A few spells have something like an 8 level progression, but most are on 14.  (These numbers might be a bit off, haven't looked at it in awhile).</p><p>So if all the spells were to switch to a strict 10-level progression curve, I'd take it as a step forward.</p>

[Eveningsong]

<p>I've always liked heroic opportunities and would hate to see them removed, but I do wish they would update them.  They add a little bit of interest into often boring combat, especially when you get a group that actually works together with the HOs (granted, that's pretty rare), and add a nice unique touch to EQ2.  If you hate them, just ignore them...</p>

[Phaso]

While we're at it on fixing spell oddities, could you look into removing the mage single-target See Invisibility spell, and fix the "group" ones to work like the sorcerer ones... i.e. no stupid "vision" effects. I have always thought it was quite pointless that my group see-invis gives everyone "purple vision" and I'm required to single target buff my entire group to not annoy them while still providing the benefit. Seeing invisibility has never been a difficult attribute to attain either, so I'm not sure why these spells need to be made even less viable because of the blinding, unfriendly vision effect(s) associated with them.

[Hanokh2010]

<p>Well my level 5 paladin has no way to complete an HO.  The starter works but there a no spells to complete it.  I have no spells with the icon it is asking for to complete the HO.</p>

[Hanokh2010]

<p>Just dinged 6 on my paladin, not only did they take intercept away, but it looks like guardians are the only fighter to get a replacement spell at level 6.</p>

[Barx]

<p>Aww, no more summon food and water <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p><p>More seriously, some interesting if odd changes. I hope this is only a partial update and that more (including more of an explanation) is coming in future test updates.</p>

[Soresha]

<p><strong><span >Priests will no longer receive the spell “Summon Food and Water.”Priests will now receive “Wrath” at level 6.</span></strong></p><p>1) My level 15 (when I logged in after the patch) Fury still has the "Summon Food and Water" spell in her book and can still cast it. Should it have been removed from her?</p><p>2) I gained Wrath when I logged in, and I like it. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> For a Fury just starting out and soloing it's nice to have something other than auto attack to use when the 2 DoTs (Tempest/Death Swarm) are both still up and ticking. (I actually took Thunderspike from the AAs already to give me another attack, for this reason.)</p>

[Armawk]

<p>I am worried and dubious about this.</p><p>Specifically the taunt issues.</p><p>We need some explanation of what exactly they are up to here</p>

[Landiin]

<p><cite>Hanokh2010 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just dinged 6 on my paladin, not only did they take intercept away, but it looks like guardians are the only fighter to get a replacement spell at level 6.</p></blockquote><p>OMG they finally gave guards their leg up again! lol could't resist...</p><p><cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I am worried and dubious about this.</p><p>Specifically the taunt issues.</p><p>We need some explanation of what exactly they are up to here</p></blockquote><p>Taunts don't do jack as it is, so they decided to go ahead and take them out of the game finally? IDK just guessing.</p>

[Alenna]

<p><cite>Sydares wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I believe these "will no longer automatically receive" things are implying that you will now receive those spells at later levels.</p></blockquote><p>Well it must be very much later I leveled a monk to 10 and no taunts but I did get a intercept adept drop from a Treasure chest.</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Hanokh2010 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>KrysHawk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm presuming the following is a result of the Spell Advancement rethink...</p><p>My Bruiser's solo HO chains have been revised, Abuse and Slurred Insult are no longer the finishing moves of a HO.</p><p>This is now triggered by Meteor Fist, Shoulder Charge, Beatdown <span style="color: #ff0000;">and bizarrely Smouldering Fists (if you are already using this stance you have to cancel it and re-apply to complete the chain).</span></p><p>The big change in this is that the taunts were on 10 sec and 8 sec re-use timers, whereas the new finishers are all on 30 sec cooldowns.</p><p>I haven't used a parser to see what change this makes to dps etc but it's made planning my HO's a lot more critical as it's easy to run out of options in a prolonged fight and very tempting to use Beatdown when it starts to flash and end up adding nearby mobs to the equation.</p><p>It would be useful to know if the effects from the HO's have been increased now that we can't squeeze as many into a fight. </p><p>HO's have always been presented as being an important tool, providing extra damage and added short term buffs - I hope that isn't being nerfed!</p></blockquote><p>Absolutely brilliant!  Does anyone making these changes even know how to play the game?  Turning stances on and off repeatedly is ridiculous.</p></blockquote><p>Less knee jerk responses. Nothing is being taken away the spells still exist just at different levels. Ho's appear to be changing from requiring taunts to requiring attacks which is better. Hopefully this is further part of an HO revamp. Furthermore the reason the stance is included in the HO finisher is because it shares the same icon as the punch combat arts. When you use the stance or the other non combat arts that share the icon it doesnt make the HO effect go off. Hopefully like i said the HO's get revamped into a less convoluted system. </p><p>Other changes. The maintained spell window looks different w timers and such. </p>

[Oakum]

<p>Hmm, if they changing HO's then maybe they can change the priest one that requires a helmet not to make it wardens have to cancel and then recast a buff to get it.</p>

[Armawk]

<p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Less knee jerk responses. Nothing is being taken away the spells still exist just at different levels.</p></blockquote><p>Berserkers will no longer automatically receive Mock and Mock II, For instance.</p><p>Those spells seem to just be going away. I could understand some adjustments but is it their long term plan to just have mock III pop up out of nowhere? or to lose it altogether? or what?</p><p>I think it would be a good idea for them to give some idea what the aim of the exercise is, then people could make more sense of testing it.</p>

[Gungo]

<p>They are not going away they are no longer automatic. Prolly more about encouraging solo play without the button mash mentality. </p>

[Hanokh2010]

<p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hanokh2010 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>KrysHawk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm presuming the following is a result of the Spell Advancement rethink...</p><p>My Bruiser's solo HO chains have been revised, Abuse and Slurred Insult are no longer the finishing moves of a HO.</p><p>This is now triggered by Meteor Fist, Shoulder Charge, Beatdown <span style="color: #ff0000;">and bizarrely Smouldering Fists (if you are already using this stance you have to cancel it and re-apply to complete the chain).</span></p><p>The big change in this is that the taunts were on 10 sec and 8 sec re-use timers, whereas the new finishers are all on 30 sec cooldowns.</p><p>I haven't used a parser to see what change this makes to dps etc but it's made planning my HO's a lot more critical as it's easy to run out of options in a prolonged fight and very tempting to use Beatdown when it starts to flash and end up adding nearby mobs to the equation.</p><p>It would be useful to know if the effects from the HO's have been increased now that we can't squeeze as many into a fight. </p><p>HO's have always been presented as being an important tool, providing extra damage and added short term buffs - I hope that isn't being nerfed!</p></blockquote><p>Absolutely brilliant!  Does anyone making these changes even know how to play the game?  Turning stances on and off repeatedly is ridiculous.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Less knee jerk responses</span>. Nothing is being taken away the spells still exist just at different levels. Ho's appear to be changing from requiring taunts to requiring attacks which is better. Hopefully this is further part of an HO revamp. Furthermore the reason the stance is included in the HO finisher is because it shares the same icon as the punch combat arts. When you use the stance or the other non combat arts that share the icon it doesnt make the HO effect go off. Hopefully like i said the HO's get revamped into a less convoluted system. </p><p>Other changes. The maintained spell window looks different w timers and such. </p></blockquote><p>Knee jerk.  You have got to be the most annoying troll I have ever seen.  One minute you argue that EQ2 is perfect and every change is no problem. Then 5 minutes later, EQ2 is run by idiots who have no clue.  You seem to respond to threads only to cause as much trouble as possible with nothing constructive to add. This was obviously put on test with no thought whatsoever by the dev team.</p><p>1)  HO is rec'd at level 5, but there are no CA that allow one to complete an HO as a Paladin.</p><p>2)  Taunts have disappeared with no explanation.  Are tanks going to auto maintain aggro now?</p><p>3) Guardians get a level six spell but other fighter classes don't.</p><p>4) The graphic effects of HO completion have disappeared.</p><p>5) If there was any internal testing before this was put on test, wouldn't someone in the QA department notice that stances are included in the HO finisher, but don't seem to work.  For paladins the stances have no effect on HO.</p><p>6) Are the "new players" that all these recent changes are supposed to attract really going to benefit from knowing less of how to play in a group with no idea what a taunt is?</p><p>7) Having HO tied to attacks only is terrible due to the recast rates.  Having opposite systems interact to complete an HO made sense as the timers were much quicker on taunts.  Now the wait is so long between HO finishers that one can complete only one HO per 2 pulls further reducing DPS for fighter classes that were already incredibly slow at killing anything!</p>

[Hellswrath]

<p>This thread is pointless untill they explain what is intended by these changes and what is happening to the spells/CAs we no longer receive automatically.</p><p>We need more information.  Until then, this is all needless conjecture.</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Hanokh2010 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hanokh2010 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>KrysHawk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm presuming the following is a result of the Spell Advancement rethink...</p><p>My Bruiser's solo HO chains have been revised, Abuse and Slurred Insult are no longer the finishing moves of a HO.</p><p>This is now triggered by Meteor Fist, Shoulder Charge, Beatdown <span style="color: #ff0000;">and bizarrely Smouldering Fists (if you are already using this stance you have to cancel it and re-apply to complete the chain).</span></p><p>The big change in this is that the taunts were on 10 sec and 8 sec re-use timers, whereas the new finishers are all on 30 sec cooldowns.</p><p>I haven't used a parser to see what change this makes to dps etc but it's made planning my HO's a lot more critical as it's easy to run out of options in a prolonged fight and very tempting to use Beatdown when it starts to flash and end up adding nearby mobs to the equation.</p><p>It would be useful to know if the effects from the HO's have been increased now that we can't squeeze as many into a fight. </p><p>HO's have always been presented as being an important tool, providing extra damage and added short term buffs - I hope that isn't being nerfed!</p></blockquote><p>Absolutely brilliant!  Does anyone making these changes even know how to play the game?  Turning stances on and off repeatedly is ridiculous.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Less knee jerk responses</span>. Nothing is being taken away the spells still exist just at different levels. Ho's appear to be changing from requiring taunts to requiring attacks which is better. Hopefully this is further part of an HO revamp. Furthermore the reason the stance is included in the HO finisher is because it shares the same icon as the punch combat arts. When you use the stance or the other non combat arts that share the icon it doesnt make the HO effect go off. Hopefully like i said the HO's get revamped into a less convoluted system. </p><p>Other changes. The maintained spell window looks different w timers and such. </p></blockquote><p>Knee jerk.  You have got to be the most annoying troll I have ever seen.  One minute you argue that EQ2 is perfect and every change is no problem. Then 5 minutes later, EQ2 is run by idiots who have no clue.  You seem to respond to threads only to cause as much trouble as possible with nothing constructive to add. This was obviously put on test with no thought whatsoever by the dev team.</p><p>1)  HO is rec'd at level 5, but there are no CA that allow one to complete an HO as a Paladin.</p><p>2)  Taunts have disappeared with no explanation.  Are tanks going to auto maintain aggro now?</p><p>3) Guardians get a level six spell but other fighter classes don't.</p><p>4) The graphic effects of HO completion have disappeared.</p><p>5) If there was any internal testing before this was put on test, wouldn't someone in the QA department notice that stances are included in the HO finisher, but don't seem to work.  For paladins the stances have no effect on HO.</p><p>6) Are the "new players" that all these recent changes are supposed to attract really going to benefit from knowing less of how to play in a group with no idea what a taunt is?</p><p>7) Having HO tied to attacks only is terrible due to the recast rates.  Having opposite systems interact to complete an HO made sense as the timers were much quicker on taunts.  Now the wait is so long between HO finishers that one can complete only one HO per 2 pulls further reducing DPS for fighter classes that were already incredibly slow at killing anything!</p></blockquote><p>You dont test things you have no idea what you are talking about and frankly it shows. The stance doesnt complete the ho as such No effect goes off. This is WHY stuff like this goes on test and obviously this is on test in separate pieces. Overpower2 is not a new spell for guardians. Taunts didnt disappear they still exist.  The HO graphic Still exists, if you use an actual combat art and not the stance or buff.  Do you test anything or is everything you write one gigantic rant. The reason i called your responses knee jerk is because you obviously didnt log on to test or see the changes and only looked at the patch notes to cry about it. Furthermore there is more then 3 combat arts to finish these HO's. </p><p>instead of taunts we have pummel(10sec recast, same as the HO starter), merciless stomp, and uppercut usable as the  HO starter.</p><p>to end the HO includes sonic punch, eye gouge, meteor fist, 100 hand punch, beatdown, savage assault, devastation fist, shoulder charge, sucker punch, and oddly enough intimidate (which actually works). </p>

[Rothgar]

<p>Not sure if a "red name" posted anywhere else on this topic but I wanted to clear up a little bit of confusion.</p><p>These changes are PART (notice the emphasis on the word "part") of a bigger change that wasn't fully rolled out to the Test Server.  So before you get upset about H.O. issues and other things that don't seem quite right, please hold your feedback until the remainder of the changes make it to Test.</p><p>We apologize for not giving you the full picture at one time.  As you've probably guessed, these changes are part of a package to make the game more approachable to new players.  There were many spells and abilities that were either useless or made no sense at such a low level.  I'll leave the remainder of the explanation up to someone on the design team when the rest of the changes have made it to Test.</p><p>Again, sorry for the confusion.</p>

[KrysHawk]

<p>Well I don't see my post as a rant about something I know nothing about, I logged onto Test as I always do as I always play on Test.  You will have to forgive me my lower level testing as I've just come back to EQ2 after a 3 year break.</p><p>Gungo my post was an honest first observation of the new changes - and it contained a couple of implied questions and a hope that the class I was testing wasn't being nerfed in some way.</p><p>Anyway - to answer your post further - hitting the stance button does indeed complete the HO, HOWEVER, it doesn't appear to trigger the effect - I have in the last 5 mins completed at least a dozen HO's with the stance but the combat output doesn't show any damage from the HO completed with the stance button so you are right in one way but wrong in another.</p><p>You obviously have a higher level Bruiser or related class to test with so thanks for the info on the higher level abilities to use as HO finishers.</p><p>I'd just like to point out however that (at the risk of you flaming me which is obviously at the back of your mind from the tone of your post) that Pummel is indeed the FIRST ability in the starter chain (as is at my level - Merciless Stomp), the taunts were NOT used (at least at the level I was testing) to start the chain but to complete the chain.  So I really dont understand that particular sentence in your post - as I said in my initial post - the taunts were on short re-use whereas the new ability finishers are on long re-use.</p><p>Hellswrath I agree that there is only conjecture in this thread and I honestly regret posting my initial observations, I was mistaken in thinking that was what this forum was for - my post was meant as feedback and not to trigger a flaming session.</p>

[Thor]

<p>“Wall of Rage” for Berserkers and “Hunker Down” for Guardians no longer snare the caster.</p><p>Just about time. Now please turn the warriors wisdom line into something useful.</p>

[Warpax]

<p>while your at it how about renaming the AA lines. the Str/Agi blah blah blah lines  no longer have anything to do with those stats so why name them after them.. call the lines after there 22pt title instead</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>KrysHawk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well I don't see my post as a rant about something I know nothing about, I logged onto Test as I always do as I always play on Test.  You will have to forgive me my lower level testing as I've just come back to EQ2 after a 3 year break.</p><p>Gungo my post was an honest first observation of the new changes - and it contained a couple of implied questions and a hope that the class I was testing wasn't being nerfed in some way.</p><p>Anyway - to answer your post further - hitting the stance button does indeed complete the HO, HOWEVER, it doesn't appear to trigger the effect - I have in the last 5 mins completed at least a dozen HO's with the stance but the combat output doesn't show any damage from the HO completed with the stance button so you are right in one way but wrong in another.</p><p>You obviously have a higher level Bruiser or related class to test with so thanks for the info on the higher level abilities to use as HO finishers.</p><p>I'd just like to point out however that (at the risk of you flaming me which is obviously at the back of your mind from the tone of your post) that Pummel is indeed the FIRST ability in the starter chain (as is at my level - Merciless Stomp), the taunts were NOT used (at least at the level I was testing) to start the chain but to complete the chain.  So I really dont understand that particular sentence in your post - as I said in my initial post - the taunts were on short re-use whereas the new ability finishers are on long re-use.</p><p>Hellswrath I agree that there is only conjecture in this thread and I honestly regret posting my initial observations, I was mistaken in thinking that was what this forum was for - my post was meant as feedback and not to trigger a flaming session.</p></blockquote><p>I wasn't flaming you at all. I was referring to the poster below you flipping out over the stance icon being used for the HO. I saw the fact the HO disappeared but didnt complete using stances or buffs. I didnt explain it fully but yes i understood it didnt set off the damage effect which is what i meant by complete the HO. </p><p>The amount of CA used to finish an HO changes as you level at lvl 5 when you receive the HO starter there is only 1 Ca that works (meteor fist). </p>

[Raahl]

<p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Not sure if a "red name" posted anywhere else on this topic but I wanted to clear up a little bit of confusion.</p><p>These changes are PART (notice the emphasis on the word "part") of a bigger change that wasn't fully rolled out to the Test Server.  So before you get upset about H.O. issues and other things that don't seem quite right, please hold your feedback until the remainder of the changes make it to Test.</p><p>We apologize for not giving you the full picture at one time.  As you've probably guessed, these changes are part of a package to make the game more approachable to new players.  There were many spells and abilities that were either useless or made no sense at such a low level.  I'll leave the remainder of the explanation up to someone on the design team when the rest of the changes have made it to Test.</p><p>Again, sorry for the confusion.</p></blockquote><p>Oh no!  I remember the last update that came in parts.  Guardians were nerfed, but supposedly there were further changes to bring them back in balance.  Guess what?  The second part never came. </p><p>Sorry to be so negative.  I really hope that whatever changes are in the pipe do work out.  Just a little skiddish about multi-part changes.</p><p>BTW I'd love to have the capability to do a solo HO while in groups/raids.  As it is now, it's hit and miss on whether or not one of my group members hit a CA/spell that interferes with an HO I'm hoping to run.  90% of the time the HO never gets completed because the group is not paying attention.</p>

[Barx]

<p><cite>Raahl wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Not sure if a "red name" posted anywhere else on this topic but I wanted to clear up a little bit of confusion.</p><p>These changes are PART (notice the emphasis on the word "part") of a bigger change that wasn't fully rolled out to the Test Server.  So before you get upset about H.O. issues and other things that don't seem quite right, please hold your feedback until the remainder of the changes make it to Test.</p><p>We apologize for not giving you the full picture at one time.  As you've probably guessed, these changes are part of a package to make the game more approachable to new players.  There were many spells and abilities that were either useless or made no sense at such a low level.  I'll leave the remainder of the explanation up to someone on the design team when the rest of the changes have made it to Test.</p><p>Again, sorry for the confusion.</p></blockquote><p>Oh no!  I remember the last update that came in parts.  Guardians were nerfed, but supposedly there were further changes to bring them back in balance.  Guess what?  The second part never came. </p><p>Sorry to be so negative.  I really hope that whatever changes are in the pipe do work out.  Just a little skiddish about multi-part changes.</p><p>BTW I'd love to have the capability to do a solo HO while in groups/raids.  As it is now, it's hit and miss on whether or not one of my group members hit a CA/spell that interferes with an HO I'm hoping to run.  90% of the time the HO never gets completed because the group is not paying attention.</p></blockquote><p>That's true for changes done over multiple GUs, what Rothgar is talking about here is that the full set of changes planned for the upcoming GU aren't all on Test -- which makes sense, it looks like some of their planned spell changes got pushed to test a little early, the meat and potatoes of the next GU hasn't hit test yet.</p>

[Eveningsong]

<p>It would be really nice if just a brief explanation like Rothgar posted could be added to Test Update Notes.  It would be very helpful to have a clue or two as to what is intended/coming so that folks know what they should be /bugging and what they just have to live with being incomplete until the next patch.</p>

[iceriven2]

<p>my thoughts....</p><p>thinking this is part of a larger change/update.  I am guessing the long over do spell progression change that was mentioned in RoK is coming.  Spell upgrades every 10 lvls 1-70 like it does 70-90 now.  </p><p>also see them trying to smooth out the progression.  Removing spells that arent needed and complicates the lower lvls..  So they push back the lvl its recieved at.  Or  just rearranging things a bit. </p><p>I also hope the new spell animations are incoming and this overall change is what kept it from going live.  it is something SOE does.  Likes to package "like" game material together.</p><p>Like others have  mentioned, if spells are being adjusted, i think it would be a good idea for class oriented thread that discusses useless/barely used spells and see if they can be adjusted without breaking progression/balance.  Example would be wizard mez.</p>

[Hamervelder]

<p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Not sure if a "red name" posted anywhere else on this topic but I wanted to clear up a little bit of confusion.</p><p>These changes are PART (notice the emphasis on the word "part") of a bigger change that wasn't fully rolled out to the Test Server.  So before you get upset about H.O. issues and other things that don't seem quite right, please hold your feedback until the remainder of the changes make it to Test.</p><p>We apologize for not giving you the full picture at one time.  As you've probably guessed, these changes are part of a package to make the game more approachable to new players.  There were many spells and abilities that were either useless or made no sense at such a low level.  I'll leave the remainder of the explanation up to someone on the design team when the rest of the changes have made it to Test.</p><p>Again, sorry for the confusion.</p></blockquote><p>It seems that the trend lately is to underestimate new players.  We were <em>all</em> new players at one point, many of us at a time when the game was actually moderately difficult.  I'm sure that people are smart enough to either figure out how to play the game, or to ask their fellow players for help.  While some spells are somewhat useless at low-level (who needs intercept at low-levels?  No one.) it's also true that people have learned the game for over five years now, and done just fine.  Dave's comments at E3 bothered me, as I see a trend of "Let's attract new people!" and not much more visioni beyond that.</p>

[Raahl]

<p><cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Raahl wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Not sure if a "red name" posted anywhere else on this topic but I wanted to clear up a little bit of confusion.</p><p>These changes are PART (notice the emphasis on the word "part") of a bigger change that wasn't fully rolled out to the Test Server.  So before you get upset about H.O. issues and other things that don't seem quite right, please hold your feedback until the remainder of the changes make it to Test.</p><p>We apologize for not giving you the full picture at one time.  As you've probably guessed, these changes are part of a package to make the game more approachable to new players.  There were many spells and abilities that were either useless or made no sense at such a low level.  I'll leave the remainder of the explanation up to someone on the design team when the rest of the changes have made it to Test.</p><p>Again, sorry for the confusion.</p></blockquote><p>Oh no!  I remember the last update that came in parts.  Guardians were nerfed, but supposedly there were further changes to bring them back in balance.  Guess what?  The second part never came. </p><p>Sorry to be so negative.  I really hope that whatever changes are in the pipe do work out.  Just a little skiddish about multi-part changes.</p><p>BTW I'd love to have the capability to do a solo HO while in groups/raids.  As it is now, it's hit and miss on whether or not one of my group members hit a CA/spell that interferes with an HO I'm hoping to run.  90% of the time the HO never gets completed because the group is not paying attention.</p></blockquote><p>That's true for changes done over multiple GUs, what Rothgar is talking about here is that the full set of changes planned for the upcoming GU aren't all on Test -- which makes sense, it looks like some of their planned spell changes got pushed to test a little early, the meat and potatoes of the next GU hasn't hit test yet.</p></blockquote><p>Good point, thanks.</p>

[GrunEQ]

<p><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif; color: #cc99ff; font-size: small;">As an alt-acholic I'd like to see every CA and Spell and tradeskill icon have their own unique look, and not shared appearences.  This would make it a bit easier when switching classes to not get confused.</span></p>

[SmokeJumper]

<p>We'll be making an official post about these, and other, changes soon.</p><p>It's being created now.</p>

[KrysHawk]

<p>Sorry Gungo - I guess I did knee-jerk after all lol.</p><p>Apologies!</p>

[Nevao]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We'll be making an official post about these, and other, changes soon.</p><p>It's being created now.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff9900;">Thank you. I have to say I'm a bit intrigued by what we've seen so far so it will definitely be interesting to see the full picture.</span></p>

[Wytie]

<p>Just tossing this out here for the lulz.</p><p>I have always hated HO's, ever since it cause ME to wipe the raid to Vin Sathir TWICE during my old guild's progession pulls back in ROK.</p><p>I had no freakn idea why all the sudden I would get a massive truck load of power cause the fail condition and then later get raged at by the raid leader for wiping the raid twice due to that dam rare HO. I had no idea I was triggering it giving me too much power at the wrong time to wipe the raid. I seem to freakn hit it twice on 2 pulls to wipe the raid and I had no idea why, that mob scared me for days trying to figure out how, I got so much power so quick, though I was crazy CURSE YOU DEVS lol. Finnaly a good friend told me he had done the same thing due to a rare mage HO.</p><p>HO's are the devil just saying <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>LOL see I told you it was the lulz.</p>

[Malacha]

<p>I don't know how to feel about these changes so far. I'm curious about why mezes were removed from chanters... I mean I know they're all but useless at this point in the game (dev's are far too scared to make any script that requires them... and don't tell me Cella queen requires it, because it doesn't), but why are you taking them away? Especially for low level chanters who don't have the firepower of other mages, being able to mez an add is immeasurably helpful!</p><p>And what is this "Wrath" spell? Is it a new spell line for priests? Is it just a singular spell that will only be used at lower levels and put away as you level up? I'm confused as to the appearance of this spell, and await the explanation behind it.</p>

[Oakum]

<p><cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just tossing this out here for the lulz.</p><p>I have always hated HO's, ever since it cause ME to wipe the raid to Vin Sathir TWICE during my old guild's progession pulls back in ROK.</p><p>I had no freakn idea why all the sudden I would get a massive truck load of power cause the fail condition and then later get raged at by the raid leader for wiping the raid twice due to that dam rare HO. I had no idea I was triggering it giving me too much power at the wrong time to wipe the raid. I seem to freakn hit it twice on 2 pulls to wipe the raid and I had no idea why, that mob scared me for days trying to figure out how, I got so much power so quick, though I was crazy CURSE YOU DEVS lol. Finnaly a good friend told me he had done the same thing due to a rare mage HO.</p><p>HO's are the devil just saying <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>LOL see I told you it was the lulz.</p></blockquote><p>On the converse side, before wardens got CA's and the myth, I always went for the rare HO so I could get more power when soloing or grouping. A lot of times I was the only person in the group even doing them. </p><p>Of course the proc is pretty useless for wardens for the most common one since it adds (if I remember correctly being at work) extra damage to divine attacks which wardens pretty much dont have any.</p><p>Be as that may, the power proc and extra initial damage was something I always went for.</p><p>They</p>

[Wytie]

<p><cite>Oakum wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just tossing this out here for the lulz.</p><p>I have always hated HO's, ever since it cause ME to wipe the raid to Vin Sathir TWICE during my old guild's progession pulls back in ROK.</p><p>I had no freakn idea why all the sudden I would get a massive truck load of power cause the fail condition and then later get raged at by the raid leader for wiping the raid twice due to that dam rare HO. I had no idea I was triggering it giving me too much power at the wrong time to wipe the raid. I seem to freakn hit it twice on 2 pulls to wipe the raid and I had no idea why, that mob scared me for days trying to figure out how, I got so much power so quick, though I was crazy CURSE YOU DEVS lol. Finnaly a good friend told me he had done the same thing due to a rare mage HO.</p><p>HO's are the devil just saying <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>LOL see I told you it was the lulz.</p></blockquote><p>On the converse side, before wardens got CA's and the myth, I always went for the rare HO so I could get more power when soloing or grouping. A lot of times I was the only person in the group even doing them. </p><p>Of course the proc is pretty useless for wardens for the most common one since it adds (if I remember correctly being at work) extra damage to divine attacks which wardens pretty much dont have any.</p><p>Be as that may, the power proc and extra initial damage was something I always went for.</p><p>They</p></blockquote><p>Oh I agree, I was just giving my funny story of how a super awsome HO wiped my raid twice. I just wonder how many times that happened to other people who have no idea what was causeing it. LOL</p><p>Edit:   The HO was Enlightenment. Imagine the fun time I had with this HO on VS.....</p><table ><tbody><tr><td><span style="color: #ffffff;"><span>Arcane Enlightenment</span></span></td><td><span style="color: #ffffff;">Rare</span></td><td><div><span style="color: #ffffff;"><strong><a class="image" title="Flame" href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/File:Wheel_Red_Fire.png"><img src="http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20061026135243/eq2/images/6/6f/Wheel_Red_Fire.png" border="0" width="42" height="42" /></a></strong></span></div></td><td><span style="color: #ffffff;">Gives buff "Sometimes gain power when you are struck." power gain of 10% of max power immediate, 360sec buff giving power gain of 20% of max power proc chance on taking damage (lasts 90sec) 8 triggers</span></td></tr></tbody></table>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Malachani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't know how to feel about these changes so far. I'm curious about why mezes were removed from chanters... I mean I know they're all but useless at this point in the game (dev's are far too scared to make any script that requires them... and don't tell me Cella queen requires it, because it doesn't), but why are you taking them away? Especially for low level chanters who don't have the firepower of other mages, being able to mez an add is immeasurably helpful!</p><p>And what is this "Wrath" spell? Is it a new spell line for priests? Is it just a singular spell that will only be used at lower levels and put away as you level up? I'm confused as to the appearance of this spell, and await the explanation behind it.</p></blockquote><p> They are not removed they are no longer automatically given when you ding.</p>

[SmokeJumper]

<p>Check out the announcement thread that has all the details:</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=481664�">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...481664�</a></p>

[Vortexelemental]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Check out the announcement thread that has all the details:</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=481664�">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...481664�</a></p></blockquote><p>Really? You deleted all that?</p><p>Great.</p><p>This is a stupid idea.</p>

[Valdaglerion]

<p>These spell changes dont seem to make sense to me for the following reasons from my perspective:</p><p><ol><li>These mechanics are not broken, why are we spending dev cycles reworking them?</li><li>Vets are less and less help to new players because of all the changes to the lower levels, we can only tell them how it was, not necessarily how it is now (unless you are an altoholic)</li><li>All spells were changed to be auto given because so many were overlooked which was a bad experience to players, now we are going back to that why?</li><li>Saying these things arent needed because you wont be grouping at lower levels seems very presumptious. On the noob isles you had to group to kill the final named, they were level 8^^^ (unless of course you were a twinked toon). Are you intending to remove all the heroic content from 1-25 at this point?</li></ol><div>It really seems there is an odd set of priorities being set for dev cycles right now focused on retooling mechanics that are not broken for low level content rather than working on mechanics that are broken and or creating new content at the higher levels where a majority of the subscriber base is playing these days.</div><div></div><div>Please stop removing content from the game. </div></p>

[Seomon]

<p>Not to be mean, but removing spells and abilities from the game is dumb. Spend less time taking stuff away and more time adding!</p>

[Terrius]

Wow seriously? Removing stuff be cause you assume people dont group before lvl 20? I honestly never thought I'd say this but WTB Brenlo back as SR producer if this is what you think is a good idea. Nice to see dev time is spent breaking the game more and not Fixing class balance issues...

[Jrral]

<p><cite>Tariuss@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Wow seriously? Removing stuff be cause you assume people dont group before lvl 20? </blockquote><p>Well, they don't, really. I've had the chance to watch a brand-new player getting into the game, and he's not even considering that groups are an option while he's in the starting area. He's having enough to do learning the game itself, how hotbars work, what the various windows are showing, how to handle the chat window, how the quest helper works. Add to that learning how to handle combat and what the various abilities he gets do, and he's having a time keeping up. I can't see him taking on the added load of interacting with a group, let alone assembling one. He'll have hit 20 before he's finished with Frostfang Sea and comfortable enough with the game to take on the dynamics of a group. So yes, as a practical matter new players <em>don't</em> group before they hit T3.</p><p>And for us experienced players... well, if we're grouping we're probably bringing our level 90s down to help a new alt, and that just hoses everything anyway. Fighter taunts... sorry, I don't care how good you are, a brand-new level 5 fighter of any sort just isn't going to be able to hold aggro against a mentored-down level 90. The power differential's just too much. So the new alt not getting the group-friendly stuff automatically isn't going to upset things much more than the power differential already has.</p>

[Terrius]

<p><cite>Jrral@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tariuss@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Wow seriously? Removing stuff be cause you assume people dont group before lvl 20? </blockquote><p>Well, they don't, really. I've had the chance to watch a brand-new player getting into the game, and he's not even considering that groups are an option while he's in the starting area. He's having enough to do learning the game itself, how hotbars work, what the various windows are showing, how to handle the chat window, how the quest helper works. Add to that learning how to handle combat and what the various abilities he gets do, and he's having a time keeping up. I can't see him taking on the added load of interacting with a group, let alone assembling one. He'll have hit 20 before he's finished with Frostfang Sea and comfortable enough with the game to take on the dynamics of a group. So yes, as a practical matter new players <em>don't</em> group before they hit T3.</p><p>And for us experienced players... well, if we're grouping we're probably bringing our level 90s down to help a new alt, and that just hoses everything anyway. Fighter taunts... sorry, I don't care how good you are, a brand-new level 5 fighter of any sort just isn't going to be able to hold aggro against a mentored-down level 90. The power differential's just too much. So the new alt not getting the group-friendly stuff automatically isn't going to upset things much more than the power differential already has.</p></blockquote><p>Well in that case, if these new players don't group, please make all of 1-20 content soloable, nerf Blackburrow and Wailing caves to be all no up arrow mobs same with stormhold and fallen gate. Since apparently people shouldn't be allowed to group from 1-20. Better yet put a lvl cap on grouping, so you can only join or invite people after lvl 20! After all nobody should be grouping from 1-20!Sarcasm aside, just because you don't group at 1-20 doesn't mean others don't. People seem to be expecting all these new players to have never played a Video game before, and if that's the case clearly the adds for the EQ2 trial are on the wrong websites. Cause I personally have only ever seen the advertisements on websites that would have a large population of MMO or Video game players who really wouldn't have that big of a learning curve ahead of them.Alas I really don't expect my opinion to matter, never has, probably never will, but I'm sure there are people who come to MMOs to group, I know that's a hard concept to grasp. Grouping in MMOs? ridiculous!Anyways I think my post has hit the maximum rant limit. This change just makes my anticipation for Rift grow and my faith in eq2 fall like a stone.</p>

[iceriven2]

<p><cite>Tariuss@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jrral@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tariuss@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Wow seriously? Removing stuff be cause you assume people dont group before lvl 20? </blockquote><p>Well, they don't, really. I've had the chance to watch a brand-new player getting into the game, and he's not even considering that groups are an option while he's in the starting area. He's having enough to do learning the game itself, how hotbars work, what the various windows are showing, how to handle the chat window, how the quest helper works. Add to that learning how to handle combat and what the various abilities he gets do, and he's having a time keeping up. I can't see him taking on the added load of interacting with a group, let alone assembling one. He'll have hit 20 before he's finished with Frostfang Sea and comfortable enough with the game to take on the dynamics of a group. So yes, as a practical matter new players <em>don't</em> group before they hit T3.</p><p>And for us experienced players... well, if we're grouping we're probably bringing our level 90s down to help a new alt, and that just hoses everything anyway. Fighter taunts... sorry, I don't care how good you are, a brand-new level 5 fighter of any sort just isn't going to be able to hold aggro against a mentored-down level 90. The power differential's just too much. So the new alt not getting the group-friendly stuff automatically isn't going to upset things much more than the power differential already has.</p></blockquote><p>Well in that case, if these new players don't group, please make all of 1-20 content soloable, nerf Blackburrow and Wailing caves to be all no up arrow mobs same with stormhold and fallen gate. Since apparently people shouldn't be allowed to group from 1-20. Better yet put a lvl cap on grouping, so you can only join or invite people after lvl 20! After all nobody should be grouping from 1-20!Sarcasm aside, just because you don't group at 1-20 doesn't mean others don't. People seem to be expecting all these new players to have never played a Video game before, and if that's the case clearly the adds for the EQ2 trial are on the wrong websites. Cause I personally have only ever seen the advertisements on websites that would have a large population of MMO or Video game players who really wouldn't have that big of a learning curve ahead of them.Alas I really don't expect my opinion to matter, never has, probably never will, but I'm sure there are people who come to MMOs to group, I know that's a hard concept to grasp. Grouping in MMOs? ridiculous!Anyways I think my post has hit the maximum rant limit. This change just makes my anticipation for Rift grow and my faith in eq2 fall like a stone.</p></blockquote><p>sarcasm aside, blackburrow and wailing caves are alrdy soloable.  Even though they are old school grp zones, and still have heroic content, its still soloable by most classes.</p>

[Maggyar]

<p><cite>Tariuss@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well in that case, if these new players don't group, please make all of 1-20 content soloable, nerf Blackburrow and Wailing caves to be all no up arrow mobs same with stormhold and fallen gate. Since apparently people shouldn't be allowed to group from 1-20. Better yet put a lvl cap on grouping, so you can only join or invite people after lvl 20! After all nobody should be grouping from 1-20!</p></blockquote><p>If you are a real new player, and you start in like Timorous Deep , youll easily be close to 20 by the time you are done. Or are you suggesting that new players will run all the way from Gorowyn isle and magically know where the bell is to click to go to Commonlands, where they can hone in on the entrance to Wailing Caves? Or if they start in Kelethin they can intrinsically know how to get to Antonica, then know about the griffon tower to take them clear across the zone to Blackburrow? You all aren't looking at it from a new player view, you're looking at it from a veteran view. This isn't 2004 where it takes a week or 2 to hit level 17. Now it takes like a couple hours.</p>

[Raahl]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Check out the announcement thread that has all the details:</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=481664�">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...481664�</a></p></blockquote><p>Thanks for the quick response.</p>