Troll and Ogre lore and a few other questions.

[xzxzxz701]

<p>Hey guys, I just bought Everquest 2 and I can't decide what race to play, Ogre and Troll really seem like good choices but I have searched all over the place and I can't find much history and lore about either of these two races. My other question is are Trolls really just mindless brutes who like to stab and kills things? Or are there some of them who think for themselves and become good? Or do they all just usually stay evil and kill anything that moves? I asked that question because if I end up playing a Troll I might betray and become good but if Troll can't think for themselves and just like to kill then I couldn't see a Troll becoming good. Any help will be greatly appreciated.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>xzxzxz701 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hey guys, I just bought Everquest 2 and I can't decide what race to play, Ogre and Troll really seem like good choices but I have searched all over the place and I can't find much history and lore about either of these two races. My other question is are Trolls really just mindless brutes who like to stab and kills things? Or are there some of them who think for themselves and become good? Or do they all just usually stay evil and kill anything that moves? I asked that question because if I end up playing a Troll I might betray and become good but if Troll can't think for themselves and just like to kill then I couldn't see a Troll becoming good. Any help will be greatly appreciated.</p></blockquote><p>The ogres have far more lore than the Trolls do. Most of it revolves around both Rallosian Wars, where they tried to take over Norrath and the Planes with the help of Rallos Zek himself. After the first war, the Ogres successfully invaded the Plane of Earth, captured the Rathe Council, and executed all 13 of it's members. The Rathe Mountains sprang up on Norrath on the location of each 13 member's execution spot.</p><p>However, the other gods weren't happy about this, so they cursed them to lose their intellegence. For quite a while they were were little more than mindless brutes. However, the curse wore off, and now the Ogres have regained a little bit of their former intellegence. They used to be the most intellegent race on the planet, but now they're at least competant enough to use magic adequately again.</p><p>The 2nd Rallosian War almost resulted in the destruction of Freeport and Qeynos, almost the extinction of the Froglok race, and as a result of once again [Removed for Content] off the gods, almost the extinction of the ogre race themselves. If it weren't for the ogres who chased after the Frogloks who fled into the deepest parts of Guk, and the ogres who were already fighting for Freeport, the Ogres would be gone.</p><p>I'm just giving you the tip of the iceberg surrounding their lore.</p><p>The Trolls on the other hand.... They really are that stupid. They really are savage brutes who want nothing more than to smash anything that moves and then eat it. They've never possessed any intellegence. Even the cursed ogres were still smarter than them. They can think for themselves, but the thinking process also involves physically smashing something in the process. Cazic Thule created the Trolls, but there's no explanation exactly for why they turned out the way they did. I even asked Vhalen, the former lore master and one of the original creators of Everquest, Everquest 2, and Norrath in general, about the lack of Troll lore. He was gracious enough to clarify that the trolls are indeed Cazic Thule's creations, but there's no explaining why they are who they are.</p><p>It's not like Trolls don't have feelings or don't react towards how others treat them or anything. If you were to push one too far, they'd react to it.</p><p>Whatever your reasons to betray, they're your own.</p>

[teddyboy4]

<p>As Cusa said, the lore she related is literally just the tip of the iceburg. The Ogre's have one of the most developed, and certainly one of the most interesting histories out of all the mortal races. Think about it...before they were cursed they were not only one of the biggest, and strongest of the mortal races, but they were also the most intelligent. That's quite a scary combination when you get right down to it, and they were literally capable of decimating any mortal army in their path. That is what they were created and bred for after all, and they lived up to their creators expectations. They raged endless war, and destroyed anything in their way and kept on going, right up in the Planes of the Gods themselves. For whatever reason, Rallos chose the Plane of Earth as the first Plane to invade. I'm guessing he thought the gods of Influence too weak and not much of a challenge, so he went directly to the Elemental gods who, besides the Nameless himself, are some of the most powerful gods in the Pantheon. As Cusa related, they executed the Rathe Council (the god(s) of "earth"), and for their affront to the gods they were cursed w/ dumbness so that they could never marshall their strength again, at least while the Pantheon retained their power and influence over mortals...which brings us to EQ2, and with the temporary withdrawl of the Pantheon, the Ogre's regained their intelligence to a point. They aren't what they once were, but they are no longer bumbling oaf's either.</p><p>The Trolls on the other hand, are pretty much pure savage. While they do posses a certain, and very limited intelligence, they don't rely on it for much. Rather, the Trolls are driven mostly by pure instinct, using their limited intelligence for minor problem solving, and the like. Mainly, the Trolls seem to be driven by their stomachs, and little else, although they have been known to marshal their collective stength when they need to. They are capable of using magic, but mainly only Shamanastic, or Druidic magics. Although, there are the (very) rare cases of Trolls being born w/ above average intelligence (compared to the rest of the Trolls anyway), and those Trolls usually leave their small villigages and head out into the world at large to learn Arcane magics. But like I said, they are few and far between, for the large part the Trolls run on pure instinct and don't have greater desires.</p><p>A good thing to keep in mind is that there are always exceptions to the "rules", there are some quite intelligent trolls out there, just like there are some stupid Erudites (although I think the Erudites probably sacrifice those that are of limited intellectual range so they don't "taint" their gene pool, lol). What I'm saying is that, you can do what you like in EQ2, you are not limited in terms of which class you can be by you choice of race, each race certainly has their strengths and weaknesses, but they can always be overcome and you can be whatever you like.</p>

[Ragnaphore]

<p>As a former EQ1 Troll shaman and a EQ2 Troll necro, I disagree that Troll are mindless brutes. We just have other priorities than most races.</p><p>1. Eat.</p><p>2. Smash things.</p><p>3. Try to eat things you've just smashed.</p><p>4. Everything else.</p><p>As far as why a troll would betray to Qeynos or other goodies cities, well, let's just say you find more Frogloks or Halflings at night there than in Freeport or Neriak <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[kelvmor]

<p>Ogres are the master race. They conquered gods and nearly the cities of men. It took Cazic-Thule's greatest weapon, the Greenmist, to stop them. It took clouding their minds to stop their armies from taking over Norrath.</p>

[Gungo]

<p>Doublepost</p>

[Gungo]

<p>Trolls have a massive history including the Gromzek stone, the entire guk storyline and including one of the most powerful villains in eq2 lore ykesha. There is a large amount of history surround troll lore of thier creation by cazic thule and rift in thier religion when they started to follow innoruk. Also the leader of the gunthak pirates afaik was a troll, the largest most lore intensive pirate faction. Hardly mindless brutes. </p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Trolls have a massive history including the Gromzek stone, the entire guk storyline and including one of the most powerful villains in eq2 lore ykesha. There is a large amount of history surround troll lore of thier creation by cazic thule and rift in thier religion when they started to follow innoruk. Also the leader of the gunthak pirates afaik was a troll, the largest most lore intensive pirate faction. Hardly mindless brutes. </p></blockquote><p>Actually, even with all the things mentioned here, there's really still not that much to go into detail. As for the "large amoung of history surrounding Troll lore... uhhmm.. Let me know if you ever find that.</p><p>Ykesha is the biggest part of the troll's history. He's the most famous Troll to exist, but that's it. The trolls got kicked out of their own homes twice, first by the Frogloks out of Guk, and then by the Frogloks out of Grobb. The Gromzok stone actually plays very little importance in EQ2, and barely has any importance in EQlive. The only lore about the Brokenskull (not the Gunthak) Pirates is that they're pirates, and that's that.</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Trolls have a massive history including the Gromzek stone, the entire guk storyline and including one of the most powerful villains in eq2 lore ykesha. There is a large amount of history surround troll lore of thier creation by cazic thule and rift in thier religion when they started to follow innoruk. Also the leader of the gunthak pirates afaik was a troll, the largest most lore intensive pirate faction. Hardly mindless brutes. </p></blockquote><p>Actually, even with all the things mentioned here, there's really still not that much to go into detail. As for the "large amoung of history surrounding Troll lore... uhhmm.. Let me know if you ever find that.</p><p>Ykesha is the biggest part of the troll's history. He's the most famous Troll to exist, but that's it. The trolls got kicked out of their own homes twice, first by the Frogloks out of Guk, and then by the Frogloks out of Grobb. The Gromzok stone actually plays very little importance in EQ2, and barely has any importance in EQlive. The only lore about the Brokenskull (not the Gunthak) Pirates is that they're pirates, and that's that.</p></blockquote><p>Lol the Gromzek stone was like a major part of the end of days eq2 story line and the eq1 storyline. Yes it only offered a prophecy but the stone was stolen and fought over through both games simple because everyone wanted to the stone so they could harness the stones power.  The legacy of ykesha expansion in eq1 also provided more lore for the Gunthak and Brokenskull pirates both originally troll factions. </p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>They only wanted the stone in EQlive to use as a navigation compass, and they weren't all that clear on just why they were going to sail to Taelosia even with that nutjob constantly being told what to do by Zebuxoruk.</p><p>I've completed the quest to recover the stone from Guk, and all they wanted me to do was recover it. I have yet to recieve any further quests that explain exactly why they needed the stone or why it was important to recover it.</p>

[Rezikai]

<p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Trolls have a massive history including the Gromzek stone, the entire guk storyline and including one of the most powerful villains in eq2 lore ykesha. There is a large amount of history surround troll lore of thier creation by cazic thule and rift in thier religion when they started to follow innoruk.<em><strong> Also the leader of the gunthak pirates afaik was a troll, the largest most lore intensive pirate faction.</strong></em> Hardly mindless brutes. </p></blockquote><p>correct, a legendary one, .. Nostrolo actually posted a little about elder trolls telling a tale of <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=187037�" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration: underline;">"their" version</span></a> of the destruction of the Elddar Forest. The Troll lore is there to find but its not easily found.</p><p>Theres stories about the Eyes of Cazic which is where original Troll SK's went to hear the voice of cazic in a vision in a small chamber in Grobb. Theres the more well known history with Ykesha and his priest Zraxth (whom you fight in both in TSO, Z- in outerstronghold and Ykesha in the inner.</p><p>Warlord Jergash(sp) was said to be a descendant of Ykesha when he helped establish the Grobb clan, (in eqoa hes an ancient troll elder there)</p><p>So there is lore there to be found as Cusa said not as much.. but it links around rather well though the Grozmok has been a hot contest item.. being stolen by Broken Skull troll AND the 1st Rallosian Empire before they were turned into mindless brute Ogres and then Ykesha would steal it back. There's also some hidden lore about a time back when Trolls first started segmenting away from Cazic to follow Innoruuk iirc.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>The biggest thing about all the Troll lore out there is that... it really doesn't play that important a part in most of the rest of Norrath's history. It's all pretty self-contained to the southern part of Antonica where they all lived. What I mean is, Norrath's historical spotlight has never really shown on the Trolls as a race. While the pirates are a threat, they only stay secluded to the southern seas. Ykesha quelled a holy civil war between the trolls but didn't do anything terribly significant to the rest of Norrath.</p>

[Zabjade]

<p><span style="color: #00cc00;">I'm not 100% certain, but I seem to remember reading in one of the books either in-game or possibly NPC speak about that one time Trolls where an attractive gray-skinned race and and a princess was captured and going to be eaten(or was it forced to be wed?), Cazzy appeared to her and "Blessed" (Read Tricked) her into gaining with an ugly face/body so that the captors would flee in terror or some-such. </span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Ahh Found it! <a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/The_History_of_the_Trolls_%28House_Item%29" target="_blank">The History of Trolls</a>!</span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Note like all in-game lore it IS however from a certain PoV, but this story was probably the basis for me drawing this image of a Troll that is Ugly by Troll standards.</span></p><p><img src="http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs47/f/2009/239/d/0/An_Ugly_Troll_by_DPRagan.jpg" width="450" height="981" /></p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>Yeah that book is really nothing more than a children's story. There's actually no facts inside it.</p>

[Zabjade]

<p><span style="color: #00cc00;">It could be one way or another, since it is in game we probably have to treat it like any myth, might have a kernel of truth to it somewhere. </span></p>

[Rezikai]

<p><cite>Zabjade wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">It could be one way or another, since it is in game we probably have to treat it like any myth, might have a <span style="color: #ff00ff;"><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><em>kernel of truth to it somewhere. </em></span></strong></span></span></p></blockquote><p>Hmmmm.... I think the kernel is there, since it basically doesnt <em>"need"</em> to be there. A story teller could have easily said the troll princess found herself so pretty... which would have been even more ironic and hillarious that she got more-ugly since ya know.... shes a troll... heh..</p><p>more research and clues will be needed.</p><p><cite>Zabjade wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">I'm not 100% certain, but I seem to remember reading in one of the books either in-game or possibly NPC speak about that one time <span style="color: #ff00ff;"><strong>Trolls where an attractive gray-skinned race </strong></span>and and a princess was captured and going to be eaten(or was it forced to be wed?), Cazzy appeared to her and "Blessed" (Read Tricked) her into gaining with an ugly face/body so that the captors would flee in terror or some-such. </span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Ahh Found it! <a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/The_History_of_the_Trolls_%28House_Item%29" target="_blank">The History of Trolls</a>!</span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Note like all in-game lore it IS however from a certain PoV, but this story was probably the basis for me drawing this image of a Troll that is Ugly by Troll standards.</span></p><p><img src="http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs47/f/2009/239/d/0/An_Ugly_Troll_by_DPRagan.jpg" width="450" height="981" /> <--- hottie sighting in the lore boards.</p></blockquote>