Tanks in BGs. Why are there so many?

[Avirodar]

<p>There has been a significant increase in the amount of tanks participating in battlegrounds.There must be a reason?</p>

[Orthureon]

<p>We don't want to play other classes? Also, most people caught on to the whole Crusaders are super overpowered bit and are now almost exclusively playing them. I seriously won't be surprised when you see a Smuggler's Den with atleast 75% Crusaders.</p><p>I am having a blast playing my level 70 Zerker, he does a lot of damage, can take a decent beating but is still killable, unlike Crusaders lol. And yes I have a Paladin and an Sk at 90, which both happen to need a thorough "toning down".</p><p>On a side note I am not sure why more people don't play Inquisitors, they are a REALLY powerful class. I used to have one at 80 with junk gear, and I destroyed raid geared players.</p>

[Avirodar]

<p><cite>Orthureon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We don't want to play other classes? Also, most people caught on to the whole Crusaders are super overpowered bit and are now almost exclusively playing them. I seriously won't be surprised when you see a Smuggler's Den with atleast 75% Crusaders.<span style="color: #00ff00;">Unless the rate of people playing fighters slows down, it would not suprise me to see a den with 75% fighters in coming weeks.</span></p><p>I am having a blast playing my level 70 Zerker, he does a lot of damage, can take a decent beating but is still killable, unlike Crusaders lol. And yes I have a Paladin and an Sk at 90, which both happen to need a thorough "toning down".<span style="color: #00ff00;">Crusaders and Zerkers are effectively on par with each other at 90.</span></p><p>On a side note I am not sure why more people don't play Inquisitors, they are a REALLY powerful class. I used to have one at 80 with junk gear, and I destroyed raid geared players.<span style="color: #00ff00;">One word answer : Templars</span></p></blockquote>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Avirodar@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Orthureon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>On a side note I am not sure why more people don't play Inquisitors, they are a REALLY powerful class. I used to have one at 80 with junk gear, and I destroyed raid geared players.<span style="color: #00ff00;">One word answer : Templars</span></p></blockquote></blockquote><p>I've not seen a templar 'destroy' anything.</p><p>There are so many tanks, cause some the self healing capabilities of some tanks makes them the most OP class to play in the disorganized mob that BG's are.</p><p>People will gravitate to what is easy or OP, its not hard to understand.</p>

[Harbringer Doom]

<p>When you see certain "well played" tanks nearing (if not outright topping) the kills, heals, DPS and damage received parses, all at the same time, its not difficult to surmise why they are dominating the population of Battlegrounds.</p>

[Eritius]

<p>I'd wager you won't see as many in a premade. Playing a tank will yield the best results when you go off and do your own [Removed for Content] thing. But in competitive play, you won't see that so much. Unfortunately competitive play and EQ PVP is hardly ever used in the same sentence.</p><p>I was going to say more but it deserves its own topic so it will go there.</p>

[MaCloud1032]

Another reason is simply there are a lot of tanks in the game. Be them flavor of the month or other. Every group needs a tank and a healer. With machanics where they are at its easyer to be a tank then a healer. A crappy tank will still hold agro a crappy healer just gets ya dead. How many times do ya see group needs tank a g2g

[monrofayy]

<p><cite>Avirodar@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There has been a significant increase in the amount of tanks participating in battlegrounds.There must be a reason?</p></blockquote><p>because being a casters belooows , specially a conj, conj are so frleaking messed up it ain't funny" soe is oh were looknig into it" yeah good for you how ABOUT DOING SOMTHING ABOUT IT</p>

[Davish_Darkwolf]

<p><cite>Orthureon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We don't want to play other classes? Also, most people caught on to the whole Crusaders are super overpowered bit and are now almost exclusively playing them. I seriously won't be surprised when you see a Smuggler's Den with atleast 75% Crusaders.</p><p>I am having a blast playing my level 70 Zerker, he does a lot of damage, can take a decent beating but is still killable, unlike Crusaders lol. And yes I have a Paladin and an Sk at 90, which both happen to need a thorough "toning down".</p><p>On a side note I am not sure why more people don't play Inquisitors, they are a REALLY powerful class. I used to have one at 80 with junk gear, and I destroyed raid geared players.</p></blockquote><p>I second that, Inquisitors are a challenge in PvP, they do their job and are hard to kill as nails.</p>

[HerbertWalker]

<p>Being a caster only blows if you have not built up a great PvP caster.</p><p>My wizard stands in the middle of the Gears and owns the middle for 15 min never dying, and killing everyone repeatedly.   Only die if I chose to grab the thing and go run to hide and slowly die with it (or the rare death from another good Nagafen player.)  I repeat, a 71 mage is owning the middle of T8 Gears, rarely dying.    A mage is carrying the flag for 15 min running circles around everyone and even wading into battle against the other flag carrier in the enemy base.   Please rethink any blanket claims which cover all levels and all degrees of twinkitude.</p><p>Sure, if I bring my crap, not well PvP trained, bloo server character into the BG for some fun, I will bring my tank, so I don't die in 2 shots from the uber wizard (3 or 4 shots instead.)  Otherwise, if properly twinked out, almost any class is viable for holding the middle of Gears, against a team of ordinary bloo server players.</p><p>This information should somewhat change your worldviews about what the best PvP class is.   Lots of misinformation out there about how to succeed in PvP.    There are many ways to succeed, but all of them involve advancing your character in specifically PvP ways.   Half of it is knowledge and learning.   The other half is doing the work to get AA, gear, masters, etc.    Locking your level and cranking out AA.   Most people are not going to do that.    Your choice though.</p><p>EQ2 allows you to put an amazingly large power gap between you and your peers in game, by locking your level.    Most bloo players had not realized just how great a gap this can be, until very recently.    The ability to do so, and thus devote your EQ2 play to PvP and be rewarded so greatly for doing so, is the reason I continue to play the game.    If I put 5 years into a PvP character, I expect him to be god-like compared to a PvP noob of the same level.    Level is meaningless, as you guys are learning.   My 71 wiz would fit in perfectly and even dominate often in the T9 BGs, but too bad he is not allowed in.   All I get to do is go in T8 BGs to slaughter crap characters.</p>

[Crismorn]

<p>You are level 71.  The game is alot different at 90</p>

[HerbertWalker]

<p>Right.   Because everyone level 90 is closer together on the power scale, I assume.   Everyone has plenty of AA for all the best abilities, and good gear.</p><p>No one level 90 has as much of a huge margin of power, which my character has over the typical T8 bloo BG player.   Had I created an uber Beserker instead of uber Wizard, I would be here now agreeing with you all that yes, tanks are the best PvP char!</p>

[Orthureon]

<p><cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Right.   Because everyone level 90 is closer together on the power scale, I assume.   Everyone has plenty of AA for all the best abilities, and good gear.</p><p>No one level 90 has as much of a huge margin of power, which my character has over the typical T8 bloo BG player.   Had I created an uber Beserker instead of uber Wizard, I would be here now agreeing with you all that yes, tanks are the best PvP char!</p></blockquote><p>Well even my beastly Zerker cannot drop you, but I suspect that is because Sorcerors are mitigating way too much damage lol. Hey atleast I top the BGs DPS parse nearly everytime.</p>

[HerbertWalker]

<p>I know you are slicing through countless scrub mages.   So their mitigation should be reduced, just because a couple of awesome mages out there are pwning?</p>

[Sapphy]

<p>Wizards have nowhere near the same problems as illys and conjis mainly due to them having way better defensive options and dps....  I agree that wizards are good as is, but people keep lumping all mage classes with them.  Illys have been been having real problems in fairing as well as other classes in pvp since the updates on equal skill levels and need help. There are numerous issues with  current crowd control effectiveness, spell penetration, dps and defensive options which have already been vocalized a lot on illy boards and hopefully will be addressed.</p>

[Dorsan]

<p><cite>Sapphyra wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I agree that wizards are good as is...</p></blockquote><p>Yes, because wizards are supposed to take beating better than tanks and have pityful spell damage...</p>

[Sapphy]

<p>Wizards do well in pvp in their current state.   That doesn't mean they are what ideally the class should be, yea I agree wizards should be more offensive than defensive.  But the point was that they don't need a net boost in capabilities to be a viable class.</p>

[Orthureon]

<p><cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I know you are slicing through countless scrub mages.   So their mitigation should be reduced, just because a couple of awesome mages out there are pwning?</p></blockquote><p>No actually this is a problem I find with all Sorcerors, even grey ones. They mitigate about 70% or more of my damage I do more damage to Tanks. Then when they pop MS it takes me even longer to do the same pitiful damage as before. I mean I can dig up parses and show you the crazy amount of damage they absorb, actually I think that might be a good thread.</p>

[ailen]

<p>I fought an 82 Wizard in open world the other day on my 90 ranger.  I looked at my logs, there were about 100 entries of Failed to Inflict any Damage in there. I actually had to run off or lose the 8 plat I was carrying from quests.  Now I'm sorry.  I know that my ranger has trash gear.  I usually use him for harvesting or whatnot, but come on.  There's something going on with Sorc AAs that make them completely stupid, or there's some kind of gear bugging out.</p><p>No IT WAS NOT MANASHIELD.  He didn't cast it.  In fact, I was going to leave the guy alone, figured whatever ... he attacked me, knowing this would be the result.  8 levels difference.</p><p>??</p>

[Lexli]

<p>I play my tank because I have always loved my guardian. I can actually serve a purpose without even using my AA mirror. With that being said, I die extremely fast compared to pretty much every other tank type. I finally have four pieces of challenger gear so I am getting slightly harder to kill. Starting out though, nothing was more embarrassing that charging in, aoe taunt, and dying before the healer could even get a heal off.</p><p>Basically, I think you will find a large majority of players have a tank they probably use for guild groups or raids, but hate pugs, so you may not have seen them.</p>

[Laiina]

<p><cite>Darksavanna@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Another reason is simply there are a lot of tanks in the game. Be them flavor of the month or other. Every group needs a tank and a healer. With machanics where they are at its easyer to be a tank then a healer. A crappy tank will still hold agro a crappy healer just gets ya dead. How many times do ya see group needs tank a g2g</blockquote><p>I disagree. There are a lot of tanks, but it seems that many of them play ONLY BG and not much else. I have logged into BG and seen as many as 6 tanks in a 12 person raid - yet in regular chat there are often calls for tanks for groups, with no takers - I assume they are mostly in BG.</p><p>BG has distorted normal PVE gameplay to the extent that there is actually a shortage of DPS on some servers for PVE, since some classes, such as summoners, suck so badly in BG that many have stopped playing or are playing another class. What works best in BG is not what works in Cella...</p>

[Kota]

<p><cite>Avirodar@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Orthureon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We don't want to play other classes? Also, most people caught on to the whole Crusaders are super overpowered bit and are now almost exclusively playing them. I seriously won't be surprised when you see a Smuggler's Den with atleast 75% Crusaders.<span style="color: #00ff00;">Unless the rate of people playing fighters slows down, it would not suprise me to see a den with 75% fighters in coming weeks.</span></p><p>I am having a blast playing my level 70 Zerker, he does a lot of damage, can take a decent beating but is still killable, unlike Crusaders lol. And yes I have a Paladin and an Sk at 90, which both happen to need a thorough "toning down".<span style="color: #00ff00;">Crusaders and Zerkers are effectively on par with each other at 90.</span></p><p>On a side note I am not sure why more people don't play Inquisitors, they are a REALLY powerful class. I used to have one at 80 with junk gear, and I destroyed raid geared players.<span style="color: #00ff00;">One word answer : Templars</span></p></blockquote></blockquote><p>if you think zerks and crusaders are equal at 90 you are sick in the head.  or you just don't know any non suck crusaders.</p>

[Avirodar]

<p><cite>Tenka@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>if you think zerks and crusaders are equal at 90 you are sick in the head.  or you just don't know any non suck crusaders.</p></blockquote><p>Just because a zerker may hate encountering a crusader, does not mean the rest of us do not have similar issues encountering zerkers as we do crusaders.An intense level of skill can make a player effective with a brawler or guardian, especially if they choose their battles+company, but they pale in comparison to the sheer power bestowed upon zerkers and crusaders.</p>

[Primalooze]

<p>i am starting to think it really just comes down to how well you play your class... normally my warlock can put up a good show against most classes except shadownights and assasins.. where i might as well not bother...</p><p>then the other day a [Removed for Content] necro started wailing on me and i had a very hard time for 3 or 4 klaks in a row against him... he really knew what he was doing... then the following day a conj did the same.... respect to them both they really knew thier classes...</p><p>and i dont know why people complain about sorc's.. i assume they are refering to mana shield when claiming we can take loads of damage... which despite being a nice "short duration" buff is not something that we can use that often during an average BG match... the rest of the time we are just as squishy as other cloth wearers.. unless we max out our AA's in the right area's for defence where we are probably only marginally better.</p>

[ailen]

<p>It's not how well you play your class.</p><p>1 v 1 equally high geared berserkers fighting each other.</p><p>complete waste of time.</p><p>Nobody will die, not ever.  That's the problem.  We heal too much damage so much so that we can practically stay alive forever, SOLO.</p><p>That is dumb.</p><p>Same for crusaders.</p><p>Same for any decently geared Druid/Cleric.</p>

[Brynhild]

<p>You are wrong about crusaders.. they actually have to CAST something to stay alive and can be easily cc'ed and interrupted.  zerkers can't be interrupted, almost all the heals are procs/passive.   BIG difference.</p>

[ailen]

<p><cite>Brynhild wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You are wrong about crusaders.. they actually have to CAST something to stay alive and can be easily cc'ed and interrupted.  zerkers can't be interrupted, almost all the heals are procs/passive.   BIG difference.</p></blockquote><p>I'm wrong?</p><p>I've also got a 90 Paladin that says I'm right.  I barely have to cast anything to stay alive.  If at all.he was a shadowknight a month ago.. so I could heal myself and kill everyone at the same time.</p><p>They are OP.. grotesquely absurdly insanely OVERPOWERED ..   Face it.</p>

[Kota]

<p><cite>Brynhild wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You are wrong about crusaders.. they actually have to CAST something to stay alive and can be easily cc'ed and interrupted.  zerkers can't be interrupted, almost all the heals are procs/passive.   BIG difference.</p></blockquote><p>easily iterrupted ?  a joke, right ?</p>

[Kota]

btw i'm not really seeing a huge influx of tanks. i pug on my templar at 90 often time i don't get a tank. but i suppose, even when i do get one they usually have less hp and mit than my temp, and don't seem to know they can taunt the other team members.

[Dorsan]

<p><cite>Brynhild wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You are wrong about crusaders.. they actually have to CAST something to stay alive and <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>can be easily cc'ed</strong></span> and interrupted.  zerkers can't be interrupted, almost all the heals are procs/passive.   BIG difference.</p></blockquote><p>That part is not really true. It feels to me like crusaders are completely immune to all forms of cc when I fight them. I land a stun, the animation is there, they keep coming towards me. I cast root - same thing. Fear - they dont even turn for a fraction of a second. And I had 2 1on1 fights against a crusader well over 30 minutes. Stun, fear and root doesn't seem to work at all on them. Only form of CC that actually does work in PvP is taunt. Everything else seems to be completely negated by pretty much everyone.</p>

[ailen]

<p>Crusaders can be spec'd to be immune to fear.</p><p>they can also use a short recast ability that removes ALL forms of CC ..</p><p>They get teleport to target in joust, divine aura, RANGE abilities and 3 knockbacks on a fast recast.</p><p>Zerkers are also OP but let's not be dilusional a Berserker being compared to a Crusader is absurd.</p>

[Kari]

<p>Besides the whole crusader being OP thing, could there also be more tanks in BG because their loot rewards are better? When BG first came out I ran a lot of them with my husband (guardian) to help him get a stonewill item that would help our pve group. I still have all of my tokens because there was nothing that I wanted to buy. Most things that had interesting procs didn't work in pve, and the stuff that did was mostly dps stuff and didn't help my role as a healer. If they had items that would help me I would have hung in there a lot longer. As it was I haven't done a BG since hubby got everything he wanted.</p><p>Also I had fun playing with hubby because he taunted and didn't run off to let me die the minute someone attacked me. However the times I was bored and queued solo it was no fun at all. I could win most gears matches by healing the person with the relic or if they kept running out of heal range pick it up from where they died and just healing myself (just as an fyi we can't heal and run at the same time). That was the only battleground where I felt I made any difference. The other two i would get into random raids and people would just scatter because they didn't need healers, tanks wouldn't taunt because they didn't need me. The interface made it difficult to tell your group from the other raid groups, etc. It just didn't seem set up to be fun for me and since there was no other benefit there was no reason to continue. I will probably try again in a few months to see if any of this is tweaked or when I can go in with my own group, but i have no desire to queue up solo. </p>

[ailen]

<p>People like playing tanks because they're sexy characters.  You get plate armor, great weapons, and can live a long time in a BG without much backup. No other reason.  There weren't this many PVE tanks because it took too much work... </p>

[Sapphy]

<p>The concept of a tank is kinda gross if you think about it... your basically just continually being hacked up and healed again. yuck.</p>

[lollipop]

<p>I se more scouts then tanks to be honest. Special assassins they seem to own everyone lol.</p>

[Orthureon]

<p><cite>Ailen@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Crusaders can be spec'd to be immune to fear.</p><p>they can also use a short recast ability that removes ALL forms of CC ..</p><p>They get teleport to target in joust, divine aura, RANGE abilities and 3 knockbacks on a fast recast.</p><p>Zerkers are also OP but let's not be dilusional a Berserker being compared to a Crusader is absurd.</p></blockquote><p>Agreed, 1v1 a Crusader will kill a zerker with ease now, especially since Zerkers no longer have the op version of Battle Frenzy. Crusaders can do everything a Zerker can and better imo.</p>