Paladin or SK

[Krishti]

<p>I was thinking of leveling up a paladin but my friends keep telling me not to.  They keep saying paladins are very "[Removed for Content]" and I should just play a SK.  When I played one in the past though they seemed like a very strong class.</p><p>I am wondering what your opinions on this are.  I like RP wise being a paladin.  I will be mostly soloing.  Are paladins really that bad off now?</p>

[Bruener]

<p>Good Paladins will tell you that this x-pac is the absolute best x-pac to be a Paladin.  I have played with some top notch Paladin players and when it really comes down to it they can DPS just as much as SKs, they have even better agro control with Amends sticking around, they take less damage and they heal for more.  SKs get a couple extra flavor abilities imo.  Both classes are great to play right now.</p><p>It probably won't stay this way forever which is why you should roll the class that sounds more enjoyable to you to play, especially if Paladins from a role-play stand-point is what you are looking for.</p>

[LethalBlade]

<p><cite>Krishti wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I was thinking of leveling up a paladin but my friends keep telling me not to.  They keep saying paladins are very "[Removed for Content]" and I should just play a SK. </p></blockquote><p>Your friends don't know what they're talking about <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />. The Paladin class is excellent and versatile. If playing a Paladin is your thing, play one. You won't be disappointed.</p>

[Prestissimo]

<p>Also, don't listen to bruener without taking what he says with a grain of salt. He over inflates his statements about other tanks to try to keep his SK overpowered and avoid nerfs.</p><p>SKs are better than paladins outright and undeniably. The gap is alot smaller currently than it was in TSO, but shadowknights are still in the lead by popular vote and by very well backed up population trends.</p><p>The paladin is close to being perfectly balanced right now with the exception of a couple rescue abilities and increased hate generation via means other than dps. That is why the remaining paladins enjoy playing them. We don't want to be overpowered, we want to be able to do our jobs and have to think and give up some things to gain other specialties.</p><p>The paladin is <em><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>situationally</strong></span></em> overpowered just like every tank is to varrying degrees, but those situations are often times only because the person knows what they're doing, and uses the tools they have as they were designed to be used. The learning curve on paladins is larger than the SK, and the SK is alot less gear/skill dependant. This is why alot of people perfer SKs and will tell you that the SK is stronger.</p><p>In fully decked out top of the line gear, paladins will probably be the stronger of the two.</p>

[circusgirl]

<p>I'd say paladins are the second most powerful tank in the game right now, just behind SKs.  Personally, I love paladins.  They are awesome.  Sure, its not the uber OMG overpowered FOTM class right now, but it is a solid, versatile, fantastic class to play.</p>

[Rast]

<p>I'd say Pally, but I'm biased on that :p</p>

[Tallhart]

<p>I think the thing to fear with either class is the nerf bat. I've never played a ShadowKnight, so I can't comment directly on the whole overpowered thing. But whether or not you think SKs are overpowered, the general perception is that they are. There have been lots of really loud complaints about that for a long time now, mostly from Warriors (the former lords of creation in the tanking business <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />). So, eventually, SOE will 'adjust' the SKs, and, as per usual, they'll probably over do it. Why should that make Paladins nervous? Well, the Paladin and SK share some legacy Crusader roots. A lot of potential SK 'adjustments' could weaken the Paladin too. On top of that, SmokeJumper has been mentioning class balance in some recent posts ... anytime the Senior Producer starts talking about class balance all of the classes currently in good shape get nervous. The Paladin as a single target tank anyone? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I hope SmokeJumper (or whoever he appoints as lead on the balance issues) has got more of a clue than Aeralik had.Anyway, rather than going for the flavor of the month, pick a class that you think will be interesting and fun to play, a class that you'd enjoy playing even if it was the weakest class in the game, because tomorrow it might be. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Bruener]

<p><cite>ReverendPaqo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Also, don't listen to bruener without taking what he says with a grain of salt. He over inflates his statements about other tanks to try to keep his SK overpowered and avoid nerfs.</p><p>SKs are better than paladins outright and undeniably. The gap is alot smaller currently than it was in TSO, but shadowknights are still in the lead by popular vote and by very well backed up population trends.</p><p>The paladin is close to being perfectly balanced right now with the exception of a couple rescue abilities and increased hate generation via means other than dps. That is why the remaining paladins enjoy playing them. We don't want to be overpowered, we want to be able to do our jobs and have to think and give up some things to gain other specialties.</p><p>The paladin is <em><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>situationally</strong></span></em> overpowered just like every tank is to varrying degrees, but those situations are often times only because the person knows what they're doing, and uses the tools they have as they were designed to be used. The learning curve on paladins is larger than the SK, and the SK is alot less gear/skill dependant. This is why alot of people perfer SKs and will tell you that the SK is stronger.</p><p>In fully decked out top of the line gear, paladins will probably be the stronger of the two.</p></blockquote><p>LoL.  Come on, you can't seriously believe this.</p><p>There is no way you can say SKs are OP'd and than turn around and say Paladins are balanced.  Its just straight lying.  If you think SKs are OP'd than Paladins are in exactly the same boat.</p><p>If you want we can break it down easily.</p><p>Agro: Paladin wins.  Whether it is heroic or raid Paladins being able to DPS very well now along with being able to pick the highest DPS'er and getting half their agro means they are top dogs.</p><p>Survivability: Paladin wins.  Paladins have this little thing that allows them to take 10% less damage all the time, they had a nice change to stone wall that put it on a fast recast and into SF with potency and crit bonus being consolidated their heals hit for some big numbers.  SKs do have BL which is a great spike damage ability, but Paladins also had some improvement to their death save.</p><p>DPS: Equal.  I have played with fantastic Paladins and in similar groups they will put out the same DPS that SKs do.</p><p>Utility: SK wins.  SK has good group buff for cast speed/ reuse speed and DM is still a great ability for cast speed and +DPS mod, more importantly against control effects it rocks.  Paladin though is much much closer in this category with HD that gives a big boost to raid DPS for a short time.</p><p>Overall I like how both classes look right now and the real reason I recommend Paladin to the OP is because that is what he likes to RP.  If he liked to RP a SK I would recommend that, duh.  However calling SK OP'd and Paladins balanced is just plain being a hypocrit.</p>

[Maamadex]

<p>Both crusaders are balanced, everyone just move along, nothing to see here heh. Seriously tho, after years of playing this game, since TSO its the first time my paladin felt right as far as balance. People can toss Fotm and overpowered around all they like but the fact is we got some fixes that were needed, and now that both crusader classes have no issues and good aggro + dps (which is the same thing as aggro for tanks in most cases) the other tanks are complaining. Really just depends on what you fancy atm. Both are good.</p>

[Prestissimo]

<p>Bruener: I've played 5 of the 6 tank classes. Guard, Zerker, SK, Pali, Monk. I've seen almost all of the sides of the arguements.</p><p>Something I haven't seen mentioned which bruener did so kindly bring up, if you play a paladin, keep in mind most of the balance bones we've been given come late into the game. The 10% damage reduction that he's speaking of is from our mythical weapon. Amends is averaged down due to a 50% cap in hate transfer, and group members with proper buffs can provide about 40% leaving about 10% from amends.</p><p>The significance of this is that if you chose a paladin to play, just be aware that there will be times, especially when grouping where you will feel like holding hate on the paladin just doesn't make much sense. Thats ok, I releveled a paladin and even with good gear on, it was still way harder to hold hate at low levels as a paladin than it was as a sk.</p><p>Basically, it boils down to there is math involved, there is strategy involved, and there are tricks, all of which need to be learned if you want to be able to enjoy the paladin experience in groups. You won't be able to just jump in and mash every button and make it work where as on the sk and zerker for example, you can mash buttons and you will be able to survive and hold enough agro that it can be worked around.</p>

[Bruener]

<p><cite>ReverendPaqo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Bruener: I've played 5 of the 6 tank classes. Guard, Zerker, SK, Pali, Monk. I've seen almost all of the sides of the arguements.</p><p>Something I haven't seen mentioned which bruener did so kindly bring up, if you play a paladin, keep in mind most of the balance bones we've been given come late into the game. The 10% damage reduction that he's speaking of is from our mythical weapon. Amends is averaged down due to a 50% cap in hate transfer, and group members with proper buffs can provide about 40% leaving about 10% from amends.</p><p>The significance of this is that if you chose a paladin to play, just be aware that there will be times, especially when grouping where you will feel like holding hate on the paladin just doesn't make much sense. Thats ok, I releveled a paladin and even with good gear on, it was still way harder to hold hate at low levels as a paladin than it was as a sk.</p><p>Basically, it boils down to there is math involved, there is strategy involved, and there are tricks, all of which need to be learned if you want to be able to enjoy the paladin experience in groups. You won't be able to just jump in and mash every button and make it work where as on the sk and zerker for example, you can mash buttons and you will be able to survive and hold enough agro that it can be worked around.</p></blockquote><p>Nothing worse than thinking "your" class takes all this additional strategy to play.  I guarantee it takes just as much skill to play a SK or Zerker good as it does to play a Paladin good....you can see it easily by all the crappy SK and Zerkers out there.  Funny that you are saying a SK/Zerk can get away with just mashing buttons enough to stay alive and hold agro...how about Paladins being able to AFK tank?</p><p>Yes you don't get the damage reduction until level cap (or before now I guess since you can get your fabled and go do the quest for the buff).  Just like a SK doesn't get the additional hate from Seething Hatred until than.  Or just like the SK is missing out on the real cool abilities like Furor until you have tons of AAs.  Really you can't compare playing each tier up for the class because a serious leveler will be max level in no time and working on max AAs shortly after.  Than that is where their class is going to sit.</p><p>Your right I have played 1 tank class.  But I have played with some of the best players of all fighter classes during my play time.  Right now both crusaders are great classes to play and really what you are looking for in the class should come from do you want to play a goodie class that can heal others as well as themselves or do you want to play an evil class that heals themselves while hurting others?</p>

[Prestissimo]

<p><cite>Bruener wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>...how about Paladins being able to AFK tank?</p></blockquote><p>The ability to do that has long since passed with the addition of the cap/averaging down in transfers, and I know that you know that and I know that you know that is not a fair comparison as the sk revamp came after the amends nerf that was rightfully needed. What is not needed and is severely damaging is for people to pretend that amends is still as OP as it use to be.</p><p>What I'm pointing out is that when you're leveling a paladin and shadowknight, the paladin needs to stay current on their gear and spells way more than the sk does. My main point is that the paladin requires <strong>more</strong> upkeep and investment into the quality of what they're using. The reason I keep saying strip the classes and then use them is because that is a raw apples to apples comparison for this thread.</p><p>The OP mentioned mostly soloing. The required quality of equipment and spells to solo <strong>as effectively</strong> as a shadowknight is higher than what the shadowknight needs. THAT is what I'm posting in regards to. Go play a level 50 of each tank in exactly the same gear and try mashing buttons to see if you can keep agro in groups or if you can drop the same tougher mobs.</p><p>Considering your lack of experience of playing the other tanks, it's not really fair that you are flaming someone with that experience and trying to pretend that a paladin freshly rolled will enjoy the same even stregnth that the crusaders share at the cap levels. If you took a paladin and shadowknight at any level below cap and put them in the same exact gear, you would see a noticeable difference, especially in the most effective manner to handle them. That is what I'm trying to point out. If you don't believe me, go roll one and see.</p>

[asteldian]

<p>Hmm, I play Pally and SK and enjoy them both so far.  My pally is only a baby atm though, the only thing I miss so far is the AE spells my SK has.</p><p>I play a Zerker too, so far the Pally and SK are more fun to play and more powerful, you can't go wrong with either</p>