My business is just fine, thank you! >.<

[CorpseGoddess]

<p>I am irritated the merchants, banker and broker in New Halas don't want my business as a bruiser.  Gorowyn amenities are available to those of good alignment.  Can we Naughties get the same courtesy from the Halas ones, please?</p>

[Katz]

<p>+1</p>

[SilverMoth]

<p>how do you get a necro over to halas? id like to try to start there..</p>

[Jrral]

<p>Gorowyn is supposed to be a neutral city, it's only evil because the game server engine doesn't allow for neutral. So while it's technically evil, it's vendors and NPCs view you as having enough faction with them to be acceptable. New Halas, by comparison, is a good-aligned city (makes sense considering barbarians). It's vendors and NPCs view you the same way those in Qeynos view Freeport citizens.</p>

[CorpseGoddess]

<p><cite>Jrral@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Gorowyn is supposed to be a neutral city, it's only evil because the game server engine doesn't allow for neutral. So while it's technically evil, it's vendors and NPCs view you as having enough faction with them to be acceptable. New Halas, by comparison, is a good-aligned city (makes sense considering barbarians). It's vendors and NPCs view you the same way those in Qeynos view Freeport citizens.</p></blockquote><p>It was my understanding that Halas is good-neutral.  Unlike Qeynos or Kelethin, there are no aggro guards anywhere to me as a bruiser.  So if Gorowyn is evil-neutral and good-aligned characters can still trade there, the reverse should also be true for Halas.</p>

[Bratface]

<p><cite>Streppoch@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jrral@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Gorowyn is supposed to be a neutral city, it's only evil because the game server engine doesn't allow for neutral. So while it's technically evil, it's vendors and NPCs view you as having enough faction with them to be acceptable. New Halas, by comparison, is a good-aligned city (makes sense considering barbarians). It's vendors and NPCs view you the same way those in Qeynos view Freeport citizens.</p></blockquote><p>It was my understanding that Halas is good-neutral.  Unlike Qeynos or Kelethin, there are no aggro guards anywhere to me as a bruiser.  So if Gorowyn is evil-neutral and good-aligned characters can still trade there, the reverse should also be true for Halas.</p></blockquote><p>You are correct.</p><p>Halas is supposed to be good-neutral, the balance to Gorowyn that is evil-neutral.</p><p>Kelethin is good and the balance is Neriak, Qeynos is good and the balance is freeport.</p><p>I had really hoped to move our T1 GH from NQ to Halas so that the members could use merchants, RA's, etc that we don't have in the GH. NQ is very convenient for Good aligned but for evils it's a hassle having to go back to EFP to do a collection turn in, so Halas made sense as a location for a GH for us, the evils and goodies could just use the RA and whatever in Halas.</p><p>The collection NPC will speak to evil, at least my little Bruiser had no trouble doing a turn in, but the RA won't take to her neither will the banker or the broker, I don't know about the chrono yet because I haven't taken a high enough toon there to check yet.</p><p>Hopefully they will fix this so that it is the same as Gorowyn, as it was meant to be. Then I can move the GH there and have much more convenience at hand instead of having to run toons to many different zones.</p>

[Barx]

<p><cite>Bratface wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Streppoch@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jrral@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Gorowyn is supposed to be a neutral city, it's only evil because the game server engine doesn't allow for neutral. So while it's technically evil, it's vendors and NPCs view you as having enough faction with them to be acceptable. New Halas, by comparison, is a good-aligned city (makes sense considering barbarians). It's vendors and NPCs view you the same way those in Qeynos view Freeport citizens.</p></blockquote><p>It was my understanding that Halas is good-neutral.  Unlike Qeynos or Kelethin, there are no aggro guards anywhere to me as a bruiser.  So if Gorowyn is evil-neutral and good-aligned characters can still trade there, the reverse should also be true for Halas.</p></blockquote><p>You are correct.</p><p>Halas is supposed to be good-neutral, the balance to Gorowyn that is evil-neutral.</p><p>Kelethin is good and the balance is Neriak, Qeynos is good and the balance is freeport.</p><p>I had really hoped to move our T1 GH from NQ to Halas so that the members could use merchants, RA's, etc that we don't have in the GH. NQ is very convenient for Good aligned but for evils it's a hassle having to go back to EFP to do a collection turn in, so Halas made sense as a location for a GH for us, the evils and goodies could just use the RA and whatever in Halas.</p><p>The collection NPC will speak to evil, at least my little Bruiser had no trouble doing a turn in, but the RA won't take to her neither will the banker or the broker, I don't know about the chrono yet because I haven't taken a high enough toon there to check yet.</p><p>Hopefully they will fix this so that it is the same as Gorowyn, as it was meant to be. Then I can move the GH there and have much more convenience at hand instead of having to run toons to many different zones.</p></blockquote><p>Kelethin is already good-neutral (and the balance to Gorowyn). New Halas is mostly good-neutral, so the fact an evil player can go there at all and not be KoS should be considered a plus (since it leaves 2 non-KoS good cities for evil folks, while good folks only have 1 non-KoS evil city).</p>

[Ksaun]

<p>Kelethin is not a neutral city and merchants wont do bussiness will evil side, and if you dont think there is kill on sight try wandering up around where the queen is with an evil toon.</p>

[hempick]

<p><cite>Bratface wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Streppoch@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jrral@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Gorowyn is supposed to be a neutral city, it's only evil because the game server engine doesn't allow for neutral. So while it's technically evil, it's vendors and NPCs view you as having enough faction with them to be acceptable. New Halas, by comparison, is a good-aligned city (makes sense considering barbarians). It's vendors and NPCs view you the same way those in Qeynos view Freeport citizens.</p></blockquote><p>It was my understanding that Halas is good-neutral.  Unlike Qeynos or Kelethin, there are no aggro guards anywhere to me as a bruiser.  So if Gorowyn is evil-neutral and good-aligned characters can still trade there, the reverse should also be true for Halas.</p></blockquote><p>You are correct.</p><p>Halas is supposed to be good-neutral, the balance to Gorowyn that is evil-neutral.</p><p>Kelethin is good and the balance is Neriak, Qeynos is good and the balance is freeport.</p><p>I had really hoped to move our T1 GH from NQ to Halas so that the members could use merchants, RA's, etc that we don't have in the GH. NQ is very convenient for Good aligned but for evils it's a hassle having to go back to EFP to do a collection turn in, so Halas made sense as a location for a GH for us, the evils and goodies could just use the RA and whatever in Halas.</p><p>The collection NPC will speak to evil, at least my little Bruiser had no trouble doing a turn in, but the RA won't take to her neither will the banker or the broker, I don't know about the chrono yet because I haven't taken a high enough toon there to check yet.</p><p>Hopefully they will fix this so that it is the same as Gorowyn, as it was meant to be. Then I can move the GH there and have much more convenience at hand instead of having to run toons to many different zones.</p></blockquote><p>I feel the opposite.  Before the travel revamp, I preferred being in a Qeynos based guild as an evil character because it eliminated a lot of traveling for me.  Kind of moot now, though.</p><p>Also @ the previous poster, Kelethin is not good-neutral.  At least not the last time I was there a few weeks ago.  I was KoS.</p>

[Rocc]

<p>There should be a faction quest.</p><p>+1</p>

[Bratface]

<p><cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Kelethin is already good-neutral (and the balance to Gorowyn). New Halas is mostly good-neutral, so the fact an evil player can go there at all and not be KoS should be considered a plus (since it leaves 2 non-KoS good cities for evil folks, while good folks only have 1 non-KoS evil city).</p></blockquote><p>Actually no, when EoF launched Kelethin was just like Neriak is now, totally not evil friendly or even tolerant.</p><p>They toned Kelethin down a bit, well a lot actually, because evils were having an very rough time enjoying the new EoF content since they could not get HQ updates and other things in Kelethin. They had to travel (when it really sucked to travel in EoF) back to an evil city to take care of "business".</p><p>Either way they are still not neutral, just adjusted a bit in Kelethin to accommodate the players' needs at the time.</p>

[CorpseGoddess]

<p>Come on, Halas.  You *know* you want my copper.  My alts are good for it, I promise.</p>

[CorpseGoddess]

<p>Any response from the merchants of New Halas?  It's the weekend, I just got my paycheck, and those andirons are lookin' pretty sweet.  Come on, NH merchants!  I'm practically THROWING my coins at you!</p>

[Bratface]

<p>I did a little checking on my toons, both evil and good.</p><p>The bell shows my goodies Kelethin, Gorowyn and Halas but not Neriak. Because kelethin is good and Gorowyn and Halas are neutral, Neriak is evil of course.</p><p>The Bell shows my Evils Neriak, Gorowyn and Halas. Because Neriak is evil and Gorowyn and Halas are neutral. My evil does not see Kelethin on the bell map.</p><p>I took my goody to Gorowyn and tried the merchants there, they all spoke to her and did business with her, even the bank and the broker. The exception was the Chrono tasker, he would not speak to her at all even though she has max faction with the Chrono people, the Chrono merchant and the Timeless Chronomage would talk to her though. </p><p>There were no KoS guard in Gorowyn to my goody.</p><p>I took my evil to Halas and the only NPC that would talk to her was the collection NPC and the Chrono merchant and Timeless Chronomage, she cannot use the bank or broker or just about any other NPC there, unlike my goodies experience in Gorowyn where she could do just about anything.</p><p>I wish a dev would take a look at the factions here, I would love to move the GH to Halas but not if it won't function like Gorowyn and let both alignments do business there. I'd move to Gorowyn but I just don't like the city, I would prefer Halas.</p>

[CorpseGoddess]

<p><cite>Bratface wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I did a little checking on my toons, both evil and good.</p><p>The bell shows my goodies Kelethin, Gorowyn and Halas but not Neriak. Because kelethin is good and Gorowyn and Halas are neutral, Neriak is evil of course.</p><p>The Bell shows my Evils Neriak, Gorowyn and Halas. Because Neriak is evil and Gorowyn and Halas are neutral. My evil does not see Kelethin on the bell map.</p><p>I took my goody to Gorowyn and tried the merchants there, they all spoke to her and did business with her, even the bank and the broker. The exception was the Chrono tasker, he would not speak to her at all even though she has max faction with the Chrono people, the Chrono merchant and the Timeless Chronomage would talk to her though. </p><p>There were no KoS guard in Gorowyn to my goody.</p><p>I took my evil to Halas and the only NPC that would talk to her was the collection NPC and the Chrono merchant and Timeless Chronomage, she cannot use the bank or broker or just about any other NPC there, unlike my goodies experience in Gorowyn where she could do just about anything.</p><p>I wish a dev would take a look at the factions here, I would love to move the GH to Halas but not if it won't function like Gorowyn and let both alignments do business there. I'd move to Gorowyn but I just don't like the city, I would prefer Halas.</p></blockquote><p>Exactly.  And that's why I'm trying to keep this thread alive...I'd love some feedback from the devs on this obvious imbalance.</p>

[Kaitheel]

<p>Heyya!</p><p>I am sorry that you have been confused by the services you have found available within the city of New Halas in Frostfang Sea.</p><p>I examined this issue over the weekend and found the following:• Evil, good and exiled can participate in all of the quests throughout the zone of Frostfang Sea and found within the city of New Halas, with the exception of city writs.• Evil, good and exiled can use the menders, merchants and bankers found at the quest hubs throughout the zone of Frostfang Sea.• Good can use the bankers, menders and brokers within the city of New Halas.• Good can obtain city writs.• Good can purchase New Halas housing.• Good can use the merchants inside the city to buy New Halas specific house objects and armor pieces.• Evil, good and exiled can get all of the same New Halas specific armor piece appearances through questing in the zone.</p><p>With that in mind I have made the following changes.  I do not know when these changes will hit the live servers, but they are coming!  You should see them noted in the update notes:</p><p>Zone - Frostfang Sea• Good aligned players who auto-mentor should now be able to receive all of the level 10-70 New Halas city writs.• Cordt Metalpatcher, the mender at White Lodge, is now available to everyone, despite their citizenship.• Agrim MacTosh, the new broker at White Lodge, is available to everyone, despite their citizenship.• Helfreck Lundgren, the new Housing Goods merchant at Erollis Dock, is available to everyone, despite their citizenship.</p><p>By the way, I'm glad that you continued to keep this post alive, but I might suggest that next time you choose a more specific title.  I know I would have noticed it much sooner if it had "New Halas" somewhere.  Just something to keep in mind.</p><p>~Kaitheel</p><p>*Edited due to fun with forums.</p>

[Malacha]

<p>I don't think that's enough Kaith. Halas needs to operate just like Gorowyn. While evil cannot have residence there, and cannot pick up writs, or use the chrono tasker, they should be able to use every single other NPC in the city. The Coldain dwarves of olde (EQ1) did not refuse services to certain races, they only refused based on your faction. Barbarians in EQ2 are a neutral race. There is no reason that the whole city shouldn't be available to every alignment, aside from residence and the writs that go with that.</p>

[NamaeZero]

<p>Can we apply the same to Neriak? Fair is fair, and if you're going to open good cities up more or less completely to evils, it doesn't make sense to give people so much trouble when they want to see a friends home in Neriak.</p><p>Freeport and Qeynos are getting so friendly lately, what with Queen Antonia trying to rescue Lucan, and Mithaniel Marr opening up a city that tolerates his sworn enemies... can we eventually stop having to do betray quests to switch alignments? I can't see why there's so much bad blood at the lowest ranks, but everything is so peaceful at the top. It would also be nice, because it would open up some interesting options as far as Gods. A templar of Anashti Sul could be fun, or an Inquisitor of Mithaniel Marr would follow the whole all races/ all classes paradigm nicely.</p>

[Rijacki]

<p><cite>Kaitheel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>• Evil, good and exiled can get all of the same New Halas specific armor piece appearances through questing in the zone.</p></blockquote><p>Not true! A good can buy both the light and the heavy armor from the armor seller for use as appearance items. An evil can only get either heavy or light (depending on class) through questing in the zone. The other one is 100% unavailable to an evil.</p><p>Since I am more interested in the vest piece and pants (with hope the graphic on that model's cloth pants actually gets fixed some day) for my mage, I would like the ability to buy it without having to pay Station Cash for a re-coloured version.</p>

[CorpseGoddess]

<p><cite>Malachani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't think that's enough Kaith. Halas needs to operate just like Gorowyn. While evil cannot have residence there, and cannot pick up writs, or use the chrono tasker, they should be able to use every single other NPC in the city. The Coldain dwarves of olde (EQ1) did not refuse services to certain races, they only refused based on your faction. Barbarians in EQ2 are a neutral race. There is no reason that the whole city shouldn't be available to every alignment, aside from residence and the writs that go with that.</p></blockquote><p>Exactly this.  I want New Halas to operate under exactly the same ruleset as Gorowyn.  Which means that when my main bruiser uses the crafting stations in my monk's house, I should be able to zone out, buy mats from the broker and then get stuff out of the bank.  If you want to attract traffic to the shiny new zone, this is the only way to go.  If you want people to not use it as much and "settle" for Gorowyn and then grumble about it, leave things as they are.</p><p>And sorry about the thread title, Kaitheel.  I was trying to be witty and eye-catching; it never occured to my brain to, you know, actually make it INFORMATIVE as well.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Katz]

<p><cite>Bratface wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Streppoch@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jrral@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Gorowyn is supposed to be a neutral city, it's only evil because the game server engine doesn't allow for neutral. So while it's technically evil, it's vendors and NPCs view you as having enough faction with them to be acceptable. New Halas, by comparison, is a good-aligned city (makes sense considering barbarians). It's vendors and NPCs view you the same way those in Qeynos view Freeport citizens.</p></blockquote><p>It was my understanding that Halas is good-neutral.  Unlike Qeynos or Kelethin, there are no aggro guards anywhere to me as a bruiser.  So if Gorowyn is evil-neutral and good-aligned characters can still trade there, the reverse should also be true for Halas.</p></blockquote><p>You are correct.</p><p>Halas is supposed to be good-neutral, the balance to Gorowyn that is evil-neutral.</p><p>Kelethin is good and the balance is Neriak, Qeynos is good and the balance is freeport.</p><p>I had really hoped to move our T1 GH from NQ to Halas so that the members could use merchants, RA's, etc that we don't have in the GH. NQ is very convenient for Good aligned but for evils it's a hassle having to go back to EFP to do a collection turn in, so Halas made sense as a location for a GH for us, the evils and goodies could just use the RA and whatever in Halas.</p><p>The collection NPC will speak to evil, at least my little Bruiser had no trouble doing a turn in, but the RA won't take to her neither will the banker or the broker, I don't know about the chrono yet because I haven't taken a high enough toon there to check yet.</p><p>Hopefully they will fix this so that it is the same as Gorowyn, as it was meant to be. Then I can move the GH there and have much more convenience at hand instead of having to run toons to many different zones.</p></blockquote><p>We have our guild hall in Gorowyn for the exact reason that every npc there will deal with good and evil toons.  I really wish they would make Halas this way.  Also I wish they would add Tier 2 guild halls in the outlying towns.</p>

[DuneWarrior]

<p><cite>Kaitheel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Heyya!</p><p>I am sorry that you have been confused by the services you have found available within the city of New Halas in Frostfang Sea.</p><p>[lots of stuff about what good/evil/exiled can and cant do, without addressing the OP's question]</p></blockquote><p>Your missing the point Kaitheel. The question is why arent Halas - which is considered Neutral/good - working EXACTLY the same way as Gorowyn - which is considered Neutral/Evil?</p><p>What people is asking you is for evil/exiled toons to have access to amenities INSIDE halas, just like they do inside Gorowyn, which would make alot of sense compared to now where the structure between towns and even starting areas!!! </p><p>If new halas is supposed to be like this, by design, then at least admit that AND make Gorowyn reflect that change in aligence as well, ie force the scrubby PALADINS out of gorowyn just like the SK's are forced out of New Halas.</p><p>I have to admit, the logic making New Halas good only factional wise just makes no sense to me..</p>

[Bratface]

<p><cite>Zaktull@Najena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kaitheel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Heyya!</p><p>I am sorry that you have been confused by the services you have found available within the city of New Halas in Frostfang Sea.</p><p>[lots of stuff about what good/evil/exiled can and cant do, without addressing the OP's question]</p></blockquote><p>Your missing the point Kaitheel. The question is why arent Halas - which is considered Neutral/good - working EXACTLY the same way as Gorowyn - which is considered Neutral/Evil?</p><p>What people is asking you is for evil/exiled toons to have access to amenities INSIDE halas, just like they do inside Gorowyn, which would make alot of sense compared to now where the structure between towns and even starting areas!!! </p><p>If new halas is supposed to be like this, by design, then at least admit that AND make Gorowyn reflect that change in aligence as well, ie force the scrubby PALADINS out of gorowyn just like the SK's are forced out of New Halas.</p><p>I have to admit, the logic making New Halas good only factional wise just makes no sense to me..</p></blockquote><p>+1</p><p>This is exactly the issue and it gets completely ignored.</p><p>Why isn't New Halas the same as Gorowyn? If it is meant ot be different then PLEASE for the love of god tell us how all the towns are supposed to work because I *thought* I understood how they were set but if Halas is different than Gorowyn then I am at a loss.</p><p>Qeynos and Kelethin = Good</p><p>Freeport and Neriak = Evil</p><p>Gorowyn = Evil/Neutral</p><p>New Halas = Good/Neutral</p><p>Maj'Dul = It's own faction altogether.</p><p>This is how most of us thought the cities worked, if it is different then I, and many others, would appreciate an official clarification on the factions and relations of every city just so we are clear about it.</p><p>At the very least I would like to know why Halas doesn't function as Gorowyn does, why can't evils use the banker/broker/etc in the city?</p><p>So far the only place for a guild to go is Gorowyn if they are small and have members of both alignments. Why is that?</p><p>And yeah, since we are marginalizing Q and FP can we get some T2 Guild Halls in more zones please!</p>

[KerowynnKaotic]

<p><cite>Malachani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't think that's enough Kaith. Halas needs to operate just like Gorowyn. While evil cannot have residence there, and cannot pick up writs, or use the chrono tasker, they should be able to use every single other NPC in the city. The Coldain dwarves of olde (EQ1) did not refuse services to certain races, they only refused based on your faction. Barbarians in EQ2 are a neutral race. <strong>There is no reason that the whole city shouldn't be available to every alignment, aside from residence and the writs that go with that.</strong></p></blockquote><p>Just as a thought but Mith. Marr is rather good and so was his Sister, who was killed by an evil plot ..</p><p>So .. my guess is He would seriously frown on the new citzens of New Halas being too welcoming to Evil races. </p><p>Personally, as long as the city doesn't try to murder my "misunderstood" alts and I can do the quests & pick up a few toys along the way .. I'm fine with it.  There are menders, bankers & whatnot that evils can use in the zone, just not within the city itself.</p>

[Bratface]

<p>Yeah I am sure that Atrebe Sathir is just fine with goodies running all over Gorowyn with his evil creations....</p><p>Deities should have anything to do with this since all along as far as I heard NH was supposed to be good-neutral, and as such it should be like Gorowyn is in it's evil/neutral glory.</p><p>Halas being different from Gorowyn in the way it treats the opposite faction is just stupid, it leaves many of us stuck with Gorowyn as  the ONLY option for a GH.</p>

[KerowynnKaotic]

<p><cite>Bratface wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yeah I am sure that Atrebe Sathir is just fine with goodies running all over Gorowyn with his evil creations....</p><p>Deities should have anything to do with this since all along as far as I heard NH was supposed to be good-neutral, and as such it should be like Gorowyn is in it's evil/neutral glory.</p><p>Halas being different from Gorowyn in the way it treats the opposite faction is just stupid, it leaves many of us stuck with Gorowyn as  the ONLY option for a GH.</p></blockquote><p>I'll admit it's been a while since I've ran through the Gorowyn quests but from what I remember, the Sarnaks were pretty much at odds with their original creator and were trying to find their own way in the world, so they were pretty much thumbing their noses at their creator. </p><p>To that end they are willing to tolerate Goodies in their city. That's why Gorowyn is more 'neutral' than any other town.</p><p>Or, at least that is the Lore behind the idea.  Truthfully, the Lore behind the New Halas really should mean that New Halas citizens should be chasing down the Evils like the soon to be dead dogs they are ...</p><p>But, since no one in Halas will be running after the Evils with pitchforks (much less Epic *4 lvl 95 guards) Evils can use the Guild Hall there as long as it was purchased by a Goodie, which is still a better option that Neriak, Freeport & Qeynos for the alternative alignments, if you don't like Gorowyn.  Kelethin is pretty much the same but its even more remote than Gorowyn.</p><p>And, considering most Guild halls have access to Bankers, Menders & Junk Salers .. still not sure what the problem is.</p>

[Bratface]

<p><cite>Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: 11.1111px;"> .. still not sure what the problem is.</span></p></blockquote><p>I see that....</p>

[KerowynnKaotic]

<p><cite>Bratface wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: 11.1111px;"> .. still not sure what the problem is.</span></p></blockquote><p>I see that....</p></blockquote><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" />  .. guessing you don't either.</p>

[Bratface]

<p><cite>Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Bratface wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: 11.1111px;"> .. still not sure what the problem is.</span></p></blockquote><p>I see that....</p></blockquote><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" />  .. guessing you don't either.</p></blockquote><p>That is such a fail comeback, of course I know what the problems are here, I am writing about them, not playing the deity card to make up an excuse for why things are unbalanced. An excuse btw that has never been hinted at in the slightest by anyone, dev or player.</p><p>If you don't understand what the differences are and how they are unbalanced then please don't try to add nonsense to the discussion.</p><p><span style="font-size: 11.8056px;">Valid questions are being asked here about something that is very important to many of us who had hoped to move a GH to Halas, I understand that you don't get it, but the rest of us do and would like to continue on with a rational conversation that doesn't include making up excuses for things.</span></p>

[Katz]

<p>Kelethin is not like Gorowyn.  Kelethin npc's will not deal with evil toons.  Gorowyn npc's will deal with evil and good toons.  So no, Kelethin is not an equal alternative to Gorowyn.</p>

[Jaremai]

<p>Given history and this level of attention, I would not be surprised if the sarnaks of Gorowyn had a random epiphany and stopped interacting with good characters. </p><p>That would provide the balance you're after, but in the opposite direction of your request.</p><p>They've added some universal services to Halas on Test, I'd quit while I was ahead.</p>

[Captain Apple Darkberry]

<p><cite>Bratface wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Bratface wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: 11.1111px;"> .. still not sure what the problem is.</span></p></blockquote><p>I see that....</p></blockquote><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" />  .. guessing you don't either.</p></blockquote><p>That is such a fail comeback, of course I know what the problems are here, I am writing about them, not playing the deity card to make up an excuse for why things are unbalanced. An excuse btw that has never been hinted at in the slightest by anyone, dev or player.</p><p>If you don't understand what the differences are and how they are unbalanced then please don't try to add nonsense to the discussion.</p><p><span style="font-size: 11.8056px;">Valid questions are being asked here about something that is very important to many of us who had hoped to move a GH to Halas, I understand that you don't get it, but the rest of us do and would like to continue on with a rational conversation that doesn't include making up excuses for things.</span></p></blockquote><p>If your guild is so poor that they can't afford to get a Broker/Mender/Banker then what city you could move the GH to is the least of your problems.  My guess is that this isn't the issue at all.  I would lay odds that you have all of the amenities listed.  So...what would be the importance of your member being able to zone out and use them be?</p><p>There is too little flavor left in this game.  If some class/city/race gets something different, people cry.  Instead of a world based upon a storyline and backdrop created by the game devs, we live in a world of Neutral_Good_City_001 that just !MUST! be the exact opposite of Neutral_Evil_City_001 or else the forum jockeys shall mount up and ride, whipping their horses till all is right again with the world.  Seriously...I will loan you the plat so your guild can afford the amenities if you need.</p>

[Malacha]

<p><cite>Cricket@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If your guild is so poor that they can't afford to get a Broker/Mender/Banker then what city you could move the GH to is the least of your problems.  My guess is that this isn't the issue at all.  I would lay odds that you have all of the amenities listed.  So...what would be the importance of your member being able to zone out and use them be?</p></blockquote><p>Really? You're going to insult a guild and imply they're too poor to afford these things? I have an alt guild that is just between my husband and I. We have the plat needed, but our guild is only level 41. We have a banker, merchant and broker, but no mender. We chose the amenities that we felt were most important, and mender just did not rank as high as having a harvest box, tradeskill writ giver, and tradeskill fuel merchant.</p><p>Its not an obscene request to ask for Halas to run the same as Gorowyn. We were under the impression pre-launch that it WOULD be the good version of Gorowyn, but now evil players come to find that if they want to use amenities in the zone, they have to run out of the city to other camps to use them. Not exactly what we thought was coming.</p>

[KerowynnKaotic]

<p><cite>Bratface wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Bratface wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: 11.1111px;"> .. still not sure what the problem is.</span></p></blockquote><p>I see that....</p></blockquote><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" />  .. guessing you don't either.</p></blockquote><p>That is such a fail comeback, of course I know what the problems are here, I am writing about them, not playing the deity card to make up an excuse for why things are unbalanced. An excuse btw that has never been hinted at in the slightest by anyone, dev or player.</p><p>If you don't understand what the differences are and how they are unbalanced then please don't try to add nonsense to the discussion.</p><p><span style="font-size: 11.8056px;">Valid questions are being asked here about something that is very important to many of us who had hoped to move a GH to Halas, I understand that you don't get it, but the rest of us do and would like to continue on with a rational conversation that doesn't include making up excuses for things.</span></p></blockquote><p>You didn't like the reasoned suggestion I gave for the difference .   *shrug*</p><p>But, then I guess I'm not a player .. and the Devs that wrote the in-game Lore for surrounding Erolisi and Mith. Marr weren't really Devs because the 'excuse' .. pardon me .. the whole reason behind creating New Halas was because Mith. Marr estabellished it in Honor of His Sister, who was killed by an Evil Plot.  That's the 'official' Lore behind the creation of New Halas.  There's always Lore behind the big things In Game.  We may not understand it .. or, personally, keep up with it very well .. but it's there.  It's only a 'deity card' because you don't like it.</p><p>I understand there are difference in the way the New Halas and Gorowyn treats those of the opposite Alignment but unlike you, I embrace them because I understand the reason.  Or, at least I understand a part of it.  And, I'm willing to work within those differences.  Mostly, because the difference isn't really that un-reasonable. </p><p>An Evil can live their life in New Halas perfectly fine.  They may have to go a little out of their way for a Mender, Banker & Broker but it's not impossible and if they are part of a Guild, with a Hall, those are usually the first things anyone buys, anyway.  And, if they aren't part of a Guild?  Well, most Guilds are open to visitors .. good time for the Evil player to do some Guild Hall browsing.  Which basically means there is no unbalance.  Minor inconvience but not unbalance.</p><p>Unbalance is not being able to get into a City at all.  ie: Neriak.  Goodies can't get in that City unless they are over lvl 85 and have invis and even then there is very little for them in there. So there is one whole City that can't be reached by an alignment.  That's unbalance 'cause we have no similar City for the Good Side that can't be breached by Evils.</p><p>Kaitheel has already made a few changes, maybe he could add in a Evil useable Broker but he doesn't really need to give Evils the 'Key to the City'.  However, he could just as easily change it to be completely Good-Side only, with dozens of lvl 95 Epic *4 guards who will Kill all Evils.  The In-game Lore would easily support that as well. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Bratface]

<p><cite>Malachani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cricket@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If your guild is so poor that they can't afford to get a Broker/Mender/Banker then what city you could move the GH to is the least of your problems.  My guess is that this isn't the issue at all.  I would lay odds that you have all of the amenities listed.  So...what would be the importance of your member being able to zone out and use them be?</p></blockquote><p>Really? You're going to insult a guild and imply they're too poor to afford these things? I have an alt guild that is just between my husband and I. We have the plat needed, but our guild is only level 41. We have a banker, merchant and broker, but no mender. We chose the amenities that we felt were most important, and mender just did not rank as high as having a harvest box, tradeskill writ giver, and tradeskill fuel merchant.</p><p>Its not an obscene request to ask for Halas to run the same as Gorowyn. We were under the impression pre-launch that it WOULD be the good version of Gorowyn, but now evil players come to find that if they want to use amenities in the zone, they have to run out of the city to other camps to use them. Not exactly what we thought was coming.</p></blockquote><p>Exactly.</p><p>The sad thing is that once a thread gets a dev response the dev tracker followers jump on it to make sure no one questions anything in the game, don't change anything, don't disagree.</p><p>When they compare Halas to Neriak I just roll my eyes, Neriak is evil, Halas is not good like Kelethin and Qeynos, it is good/neutral, just like Gorowyn is evil/neutral unlike FP and Neriak which are just evil, but some people can't understand this difference, they see only black and white, evil and good, no neutral.</p><p>And of course the obligatory threats of don't ask for anything cause you will get it made worse and it will serve you right lol...</p><p>I am not scared of the Dev's punishing me for not agreeing with them, if they do oh well, I will take my money elsewhere, but I don't think they are as petty as that, and surely not as petty as some of these others seem to think they are.</p><p>Bottom line is that Halas was supposed to be like Gorowyn only good/neutral, the fact that some players can't understand that isn't a concern to me, the fact that the Dev's aren't giving us a clear outline of why Halas is now different that Gorowyn does bother me, because it doesn't make sense and I would like to know the reason(s) why.</p>

[Cynith]

<p><cite>Bratface wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Bottom line is that Halas was supposed to be like Gorowyn only good/neutral, the fact that some players can't understand that isn't a concern to me, the fact that the Dev's aren't giving us a clear outline of why Halas is now different that Gorowyn does bother me, because it doesn't make sense and I would like to know the reason(s) why.</p></blockquote><p>From very early on it was assumed and logically suspected that it would be the Good/Neutral counterpart to the Evil/Neutral zone and operate the under the same idea, when New Halas was on test I remember this issue brought up on the forums - I believe it was Kaitheel that, very clearly, indicated that New Halas would not operate the same as Gorowyn. The problem is, and why I am in agreement with what I quoted here, no one has ever really said why that I can find- I don't think it's too far fetched to ask for an explaination from someone in the know.</p><p>For me personally, I don't really care - I never roll evil alts so I am not restricted from anything in the city on any character - but I would still like to know. . . IF it is a lore reason, diety or otherwise - that would just be a bonus in my book.  If there is no lore reason for it, then it should be opened up to everyone and for the evil folks,  act exactly as Gorowyn does for the goodies.</p>

[Wingrider01]

<p><cite>Jaremai@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Given history and this level of attention, I would not be surprised if the sarnaks of Gorowyn had a random epiphany and stopped interacting with good characters. </p><p>That would provide the balance you're after, but in the opposite direction of your request.</p><p>They've added some universal services to Halas on Test, I'd quit while I was ahead.</p></blockquote><p>get rid of nuetral all togther - evil or good only</p><p>or</p><p>Introduce chaotic evil / good - chaotic evil / good gaurd walks by - kills your evil /good character just for fun amd laughs. Add some uncertainty to the mix</p>

[KerowynnKaotic]

<p><cite>Cynith@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>From very early on it was <strong>assumed</strong> and logically suspected that it would be the Good/Neutral counterpart to the Evil/Neutral zone and operate the under the same idea, when New Halas was on test I remember this issue brought up on the forums - I believe it was Kaitheel that, very clearly, indicated that New Halas would not operate the same as Gorowyn. The problem is, and why I am in agreement with what I quoted here, no one has ever really said why that I can find- I don't think it's too far fetched to ask for an explaination from someone in the know.</p></blockquote><p>The Devs never said it was going to be exactly like Gorowyn, though.  They actually danced around it a LOT!  They said it was going to be sorta like Gorowyn and sorta neutral.  I even think they used "mostly neutral" at one point.</p><p>Which is exactly what we got.  Sorta and Mostly Neutral.  It's more neutral than some places, less than other. </p><p>But, regardless of what they did or didnot say in the terms of 'neutrality' they definitely used "<strong>of course it's all subject to change!</strong>" and "<strong>we're still debating on it, so it can still change</strong>" ...</p>

[Bratface]

<p><cite>Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cynith@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>From very early on it was <strong>assumed</strong> and logically suspected that it would be the Good/Neutral counterpart to the Evil/Neutral zone and operate the under the same idea, when New Halas was on test I remember this issue brought up on the forums - I believe it was Kaitheel that, very clearly, indicated that New Halas would not operate the same as Gorowyn. The problem is, and why I am in agreement with what I quoted here, no one has ever really said why that I can find- I don't think it's too far fetched to ask for an explaination from someone in the know.</p></blockquote><p>The Devs never said it was going to be exactly like Gorowyn, though.  They actually danced around it a LOT!  They said it was going to be sorta like Gorowyn and sorta neutral.  I even think they used "mostly neutral" at one point.</p><p>Which is exactly what we got.  Sorta and Mostly Neutral.  It's more neutral than some places, less than other. </p><p>But, regardless of what they did or didnot say in the terms of 'neutrality' they definitely used "<strong>of course it's all subject to change!</strong>" and "<strong>we're still debating on it, so it can still change</strong>" ...</p></blockquote><p>Why are you here?</p><p>You never cared on bit about this subject until you follwed the dev racker here, and now you just want to argue with everyone when no one wants to debate it with you.</p><p>We know you thinkw are wrong for wanting change, so be it. But please stop trying to shout everyone down, we want a discussion with devs, not you.</p><p>You are not a dev, you cannot answer things that we ask of devs, only a dev can and you sure do not have any right to tell us to stop questioning.</p><p>I am sorry if our questions of the devs displease you, but that doesn't mean we have to change.</p>

[DuneWarrior]

<p>I take it we wont get more feedback from any red's in this thread ...</p><p>I gotta admit i hate the logic of 'silencing issues to death' but apparently .. such is life.</p>

[CorpseGoddess]

<p>So...what?  We just have to live with this unbalance?  All I'm asking for is the same convenience for my naughty toons in New Halas that my goody toons enjoy in Gorowyn.  Seriously, why is this even an issue?  Just bring New Halas up to par with Gorowyn and we're good to go.  I don't understand why this hasn't been done.  Devs?</p>

[Bratface]

<p><cite>Streppoch@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So...what?  We just have to live with this unbalance?  All I'm asking for is the same convenience for my naughty toons in New Halas that my goody toons enjoy in Gorowyn.  Seriously, why is this even an issue?  Just bring New Halas up to par with Gorowyn and we're good to go.  I don't understand why this hasn't been done.  Devs?</p></blockquote><p>Apparently we have gotten teh only answer we are going to get.</p><p>There will not be parity between Halas and Gorowyn, it is BACK OF THE BUS FOR EVILS IN HALAS.</p><p>Having a few NPC in the outer edges of the area that an evil will be able to use is NOT the same thing as having all NPC's available to them, like Gorowyn has them for goodies.</p><p>It's second class citizen treatment for evils in Halas, they could learn a lesson from their Gorowyn counterpart.</p><p>Too bad too, I really wanted to have a Halas GH but it just isn't fair to evils, when we can go to Gorowyn and have equality for all alignments.</p><p>Yet another disappointment and lack of balance that could be easily fixed but isn't, with no reason given.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The In-game Lore would easily support that as well. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>SOE quit basing the mechanics of the game around lore years ago.</p>

[Bratface]

<p>I find it very interesting (not to mention the lack of balance and thought put into factions in this game) that my evils can go to a Q Research Assistant (which is pure Goodie) to get their spells but can't get them in New Halas (which is good/neutral).</p><p>Logical fail.</p>

[Barx]

<p><cite>Bratface wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I find it very interesting (not to mention the lack of balance and thought put into factions in this game) that my evils can go to a Q Research Assistant (which is pure Goodie) to get their spells but can't get them in New Halas (which is good/neutral).</p><p>Logical fail.</p></blockquote><p>/bug it. Qeynos merchants and NPCs (including the research assistant) shouldn't be willing to "do business with" folks of evil alignment.</p>

[Bratface]

<p><cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Bratface wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I find it very interesting (not to mention the lack of balance and thought put into factions in this game) that my evils can go to a Q Research Assistant (which is pure Goodie) to get their spells but can't get them in New Halas (which is good/neutral).</p><p>Logical fail.</p></blockquote><p>/bug it. Qeynos merchants and NPCs (including the research assistant) shouldn't be willing to "do business with" folks of evil alignment.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah I am on it....</p>