Please let us change in our tokens for a different type [Archive]

Beef_Supre

05-30-2010, 01:09 PM

Ganak doesn't seem to be a problem at 30-39, from my experience.During even moderate population play times, Ganak comes up fairly often even if you just Queue for the soonest available battleground. If you want Ganak in particular, and queue just it, it doesn't usually take very long.Smuggler's, on the other hand.. well, I've yet to see one. I spent a couple hours with it queued the other day, and never saw it happen. I've never seen one come up randomly in the 30-39 BG's, and I'm not hugely optimistic at this point. Sad part is, I'd LOVE to do them, it sounds like a blast to me.I agree with those asking for a Token exchange method. Either lower the cost of frequency of items that take the Rum, or make an exchange possible. It just takes too much for a 24 on 24 to happen, apparently. Something should be done in one form or another to fix this.

sennsa

05-30-2010, 03:08 PM

<cite>NicolasKL wrote:</cite><blockquote>I dont agree, if they do that no one will run smugglers and ganaks.</blockquote>Its not that I dont want to do these runs, the problem is nobody is doing them in these lower tiers.I've been playing these BG's in t4 every single day since they've come out. I finally did my first two ganak runs the other night. That put me at 6 ganak tokens and 75+ gears right now.After all these BG's I've done I'm still unable to buy an armor upgrade because of a lack of other tokens- there is a problem here..

NicolasKL

05-30-2010, 03:30 PM

<cite>sennsa wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>NicolasKL wrote:</cite><blockquote>I dont agree, if they do that no one will run smugglers and ganaks.</blockquote>Its not that I dont want to do these runs, the problem is nobody is doing them in these lower tiers.I've been playing these BG's in t4 every single day since they've come out. I finally did my first two ganak runs the other night. That put me at 6 ganak tokens and 75+ gears right now.After all these BG's I've done I'm still unable to buy an armor upgrade because of a lack of other tokens- there is a problem here..</blockquote>Then how is anyone going to get any gear?

sennsa

05-30-2010, 03:34 PM

<cite>NicolasKL wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>sennsa wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>NicolasKL wrote:</cite><blockquote>I dont agree, if they do that no one will run smugglers and ganaks.</blockquote>Its not that I dont want to do these runs, the problem is nobody is doing them in these lower tiers.I've been playing these BG's in t4 every single day since they've come out. I finally did my first two ganak runs the other night. That put me at 6 ganak tokens and 75+ gears right now.After all these BG's I've done I'm still unable to buy an armor upgrade because of a lack of other tokens- there is a problem here..</blockquote>Then how is anyone going to get any gear? </blockquote>exactly!

NicolasKL

05-30-2010, 03:44 PM

People have to be doing them, just going to have to queue individually and wait.

sennsa

05-30-2010, 03:49 PM

Really nikolas? thanks, that really helps.

Grumble69

05-30-2010, 04:54 PM

I had to feed my lower lvl char with bottles from a higher lvl char that does the 80-89 zone. Other than that, it's pretty much unattainable.

Trawe

05-30-2010, 06:01 PM

<img src="http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/9312/gerbg.jpg" />yes and the only rare thing in this screenshot is that a klak match actually started on the germen bg server.we can´t be merged due to language - yet it says gears of klakanon ~

Modega

05-30-2010, 10:09 PM

I think the vast majority of people who run BG's select the "first available". The queue isnt long for t4 bg's so there is obviously a good number of people entering this queue. Why then if people aren't specifically selecting klak runs, are klak runs almost exclusively served? if people are selecting first available then they need to work on their algorithm for whats thrown together instead of just dishing out the fastest matchup. I have a t7 ranger that when i select first available it takes about 5 minutes for a klak to be offered. Today I selected a smugglers run specific and ran it on my second monitor while i played my main account on my primary monitor. 7 hours later I left the queue.... obviously selecting specific matches and "waiting" is NOT the answer to this problem.

bks6721

05-31-2010, 04:29 AM

Trawe

05-31-2010, 05:38 AM

very nice that you can but i can´t and never will be able running smugglers as often as i want.in fact i can´t run it even a single time during weekends.please let us merge tokens or lower the costs for specific servers. since we cannot get merged anywaywhy is it so hard to make a different ruleset regarding tokens?please don´t answer like you are the only people trying to play bg. think out of the box and don´tpost ignorant selfish replies you put no thought in. ( except you are ranting - then it´s fine i guess )

channel

06-01-2010, 02:29 PM

i'm gonna have to throw my 2cents in here <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" />this is mainly about lower level bgs... i do have a 90 main, and have been able to get smugglers on her and pass along bottles to lower levels - but i'd MUCH rather be focusing on actually playing my lower levels...issues i see1) in the 30-39, and 40-49 ranges - i have not seen ANY smugglers come up - and only 1 Ganak compared to dozens upon dozens of Gears2) the BG gear in the lower levels really sucks, like truly sucks - it's such a MINIMAL upgrade to MC gear it's not even funny....INQUISITOR GEARoh YAY! - i can put on MC gear with heal and damage procs (chest/legs) and 38 toughness in totalor i can put on the BG reward gear and 50 toughness, no procs - 3% crit and 40 ability modPLUS - health and power end up HIGHER on MC gear (due to 19 wis/sta compared to 12 wis/sta) on each piece - even if you take into account the +power/health - MC gear still grants more overall HP and Mana poolHMMMM - i think i'll stick with the MC gear which is infinitely easier to obtain than bg armor... ALSO - the suckiness i mention above is just the 7 main slots... forget about the BG jewelry and such - that stuff is worse than handcrafted - i get MUCH MORE from treasured gear in those slots than i do any of the BG jewelry at lvl 30-39in general: is the ability mod nice at low levels - SURE - but really 3% chance doesn't really do me much good imho, and i'm surviving just fine in BGs with 38 toughness...3) POWER in low level BGs - this is an issue ... the new strat is - keep folks with 0 power ALIVE so that they can't die to regen and while they are alive with 100% health and ZERO power ... all they can effectively do is auto-attack...Solution - make SMUGGLERS more enticing for lower levels - either with really really upgraded gear for smugglers tokens - like POWER PROC gear - do this for Ganak too.. make it a little more enticingOR - implement an exchange merchantThe other thing i would've loved to see is the WARFIELDS implemented as a seperate server as an ADDITIONAL battlegrounds scenariojust my 2cp

Laiina

06-01-2010, 02:39 PM

I could see a token exchange for, say under 60 or 70, perhaps at a reduced rate, 10 for 8 for example. But after that all 3 are available enough to where I don't see a problem.

JoarAddam

06-01-2010, 04:23 PM

YES PLEASE to token exchange. or something. Don't make me add another stack to my shared bank every time you make a new BG... or Holiday quest... or change the druid rings... or ... We already expect new tokens for the next expansion, how many of those are there going to be?Look at what we have for tokens and other assorted stacks of stuff you only use once in a while right now in this gameMoonlight Enchantments tokensErrolisi Day tokenserrolisi day materialsBrewday MaterialsNOTD MaterialsVoid ShardsElemental TokensMarks of ManaarGears TokensGanak TokensSmugglers TokensCourt of Coincourt of bladescourt of truthCity TokensMarks of ErrolisiTokens of E'ciFrostfell materialsDruid ring tokensand I'm probably missing 6 or 7 more. You guys complain about how overloaded the DB is, and then add these tokens all the time. And most of the time, you're not getting people to go out and run smugglers and ganak anyways or the queue wouldn't be hours long or put you in a 24 vs 2 match

Crismorn

06-01-2010, 04:39 PM

Token exchange would just make everyone do Ganak w/ max run speed.If you want gear on your lowbie guy then farm the shards on your main.

JoarAddam

06-01-2010, 05:00 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Token exchange would just make everyone do Ganak w/ max run speed.If you want gear on your lowbie guy then farm the shards on your main.</blockquote>That attitude just makes people who havfe alvl 90 OP compared to people who don't in a lvl 40 BG. What should having a level 90 have to do with playing in a lvl 40 BG? Nothing. What's actually happening? folk with 90's get to fill 4-5 more gear slots on their lvl 40 while everyone else gets to collect gears tokens ad nauseum.

Grumble69

06-01-2010, 05:11 PM

For the lower lvl BGs they just need to modify Ganak and Smugglers so it lets you play x1. Problem solved. Smugglers would be a hoot that way, although they would need to speed up the tower captures.

Davngr1

06-01-2010, 05:39 PM

could add some type of quest for tokens that updates with "kills" in BG's, any map not specific. that way everyone is getting tokens the same way and any mechanics implemented for low population servers aren't exploited by high population servers. btw sadly if they allow token trading that is exactly what most will do specially with this new "campaign" thing.

Crismorn

06-01-2010, 05:49 PM

<cite>JoarAddam wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Token exchange would just make everyone do Ganak w/ max run speed.If you want gear on your lowbie guy then farm the shards on your main.</blockquote>That attitude just makes people who havfe alvl 90 OP compared to people who don't in a lvl 40 BG. What should having a level 90 have to do with playing in a lvl 40 BG? Nothing. What's actually happening? folk with 90's get to fill 4-5 more gear slots on their lvl 40 while everyone else gets to collect gears tokens ad nauseum.</blockquote>Yes, people who have lvl 90 characters have an advantage over those who do not.It's been like this since day1 of pretty much every mmo to ever come out.You use your high level character to gear out your low level character.Again... This is nothing new

Beef_Supre

06-01-2010, 08:46 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes, people who have lvl 90 characters have an advantage over those who do not.It's been like this since day1 of pretty much every mmo to ever come out.You use your high level character to gear out your low level character.Again... This is nothing new</blockquote>Ordinarily, I'd agree with you, Crismorn.People with established, highly played, and established lvl 90 characters should have an advantage, they've earned the 'power' to do things in the only context that's relevant. Having more coin, more Tradeskill, more everything.. well, that's what the game is all about, and all your previous character's work should and is at your disposal to help your lower level alts.So, on that note, you're very right.However...That's not what this discussion is about. The discussion is about a great and fun part of the game that needs a little change. The issue being discussed is that it's not possible for a character of, say lvl 30-39, to play the game as intended and earn the tokens in all three of the Battlegrounds. No one is, or should be, saying it's wrong to earn the tokens with your 90. That's entirely acceptable, and probably a pretty [Removed for Content] good idea.But, players need to be able to earn the tokens from all 3 BG's at any level. If that is simply impossible, then the exchange of Tokens for other types is a really necessary development. If level 40 armor is bought with something, it needs to be something a level 40 can, in time, earn.Edit: Grammar

Crismorn

06-01-2010, 08:54 PM

For that problem my suggestion would be to make one tier say 30-39 allowed to get quests for all 3 missions, change which tier gets the rewards in the attempt to move players into certain leagues depending on the day.Monday is 30-39 day, tues 40-49, wed 50-59, etc..So on mondays the 30-39 league would get quests for ganak, smugglers and gears.

Macross_JR

06-02-2010, 12:07 AM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>For that problem my suggestion would be to make one tier say 30-39 allowed to get quests for all 3 missions, change which tier gets the rewards in the attempt to move players into certain leagues depending on the day.Monday is 30-39 day, tues 40-49, wed 50-59, etc..So on mondays the 30-39 league would get quests for ganak, smugglers and gears.</blockquote>I don't know why they don't let the lower tier get the quests, I mean it's the same quest, just at a different level.

Crismorn

06-02-2010, 01:58 AM

/agreeThey need more incentive for lowbie bg's, make it reward more xp/aa, add even more quests.. Make it at least almost viable to level up on

JoarAddam

06-02-2010, 11:11 AM

<cite>NicolasKL wrote:</cite><blockquote>I dont agree, if they do that no one will run smugglers and ganaks.</blockquote>if you haven't noticed, we're saying we apparently CAN'T run them NOW. The queue for a smugglers never ever ends or ends in a 24 vs 2 match. and i thought the 6v2 gears runs were bad...

AziBam

06-02-2010, 11:55 AM

I don't understand why they have 3 token types in the first place. Should be one. Then people play the matches they want to because they enjoy them rather than only because they need a certain token type. Just adjust the #s to accomodate the longer duration of something like smugglers.

Blambil

06-02-2010, 01:18 PM

visibility into queues, status, people waiting at a given level, etc, would help this a lot...

JoarAddam

06-02-2010, 01:59 PM

or... if they think that it's really that much harder to run a den or ganak... make the BG gear in a Gears set a Den set and a Ganak set. If the claim is that it's harder to do a den or ganak because it requires more skill and equipment, then make a gears set with some stats, ganak with slightly boosted or even different stats (runspeed anyone?) and the den set could be the super duper fabled set with the blue adorns, strikethrough, etc.

Crismorn

06-02-2010, 02:50 PM

<cite>Azian@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't understand why they have 3 token types in the first place. Should be one. Then people play the matches they want to because they enjoy them rather than only because they need a certain token type. Just adjust the #s to accomodate the longer duration of something like smugglers. </blockquote>Because they made 3 different maps and knew that players would eventually do the fastest one to get gear faster, the 3 shard system ensures that 2/3'rds of their content does not get overlooked because it takes longer to run

Crismorn

06-02-2010, 02:50 PM

<cite>JoarAddam wrote:</cite><blockquote>or... if they think that it's really that much harder to run a den or ganak... make the BG gear in a Gears set a Den set and a Ganak set. If the claim is that it's harder to do a den or ganak because it requires more skill and equipment, then make a gears set with some stats, ganak with slightly boosted or even different stats (runspeed anyone?) and the den set could be the super duper fabled set with the blue adorns, strikethrough, etc. </blockquote>None of them are hard or easy they all depend on y our team and the opposing team.They offer the same rewards as is, some of them take longer to run on average

Wytie

06-02-2010, 03:18 PM

They should allow a 3-1 conversion.That way people can still get the rare tokens... Just for a 33% exchange rate and maybe add a plat sink too.

Crismorn

06-02-2010, 03:21 PM

Everyone would do ganak w/ max runspeed, seriously thats exactly what would happen.

Wytie

06-02-2010, 03:28 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Everyone would do ganak w/ max runspeed, seriously thats exactly what would happen.</blockquote>Go for it, with a 33% exchange rate they arent getting tokens that much if any faster.

Wytie

06-02-2010, 03:30 PM

They need to add 2 repeatables to Smug then "most" would do it atleast twice a day just for that.

Harbringer Doom

06-02-2010, 03:37 PM

<cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>They need to add 2 repeatables to Smug then "most" would do it atleast twice a day just for that.</blockquote>Smugglers doesnt have 2 repeatables?

Crismorn

06-02-2010, 03:42 PM

<cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Everyone would do ganak w/ max runspeed, seriously thats exactly what would happen.</blockquote>Go for it, with a 33% exchange rate they arent getting tokens that much if any faster.</blockquote>Yes they are.Max runspeed and ignore any and all pvp, many players already do this but since they need all 3 types of tokens they cannot do this all day long.Making one type of token would allow them to completely ignore any and all fighting and just run flags.so no ty

Dareena

06-02-2010, 03:42 PM

<cite>Horknut@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Smugglers doesnt have 2 repeatables?</blockquote>I'm guessing that Pail means bonus token rewarding quests which are repeatable. With those bonuses, people should have a large enough carrot to motivate them.

Wytie

06-02-2010, 03:47 PM

<cite>Horknut@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>They need to add 2 repeatables to Smug then "most" would do it atleast twice a day just for that.</blockquote>Smugglers doesnt have 2 repeatables?</blockquote>I only see the 2 repeatables for Gears and 2 for Ganak, dang maybe Im blind lolEdit: found them and yes I am blind.

Harbringer Doom

06-02-2010, 03:49 PM

They're there. I'm not sure the 90 gold and the xp gives people more incentive to run Smuggler's beyond the need for the tokens.

Harbringer Doom

06-02-2010, 03:50 PM

A repeatable for an extra token would DEFINITELY get more people in the zone, I would guess.

Wytie

06-02-2010, 03:53 PM

<cite>Horknut@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>They're there. I'm not sure the 90 gold and the xp gives people more incentive to run Smuggler's beyond the need for the tokens.</blockquote>Well thats really wierd, I sware I only see 4 feathers everyday in QH on Nagafen for repeatable BG quest, and its only for Ganak and Gears.Something is fishy.Edit: found them and yes I am blind.

Crismorn

06-02-2010, 03:59 PM

They are further back behind the gears quest guys.I generally try to do all 6 everyday for the aa/gold.

Wytie

06-02-2010, 04:00 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>They are further back behind the gears quest guys.I generally try to do all 6 everyday for the aa/gold.</blockquote>Me too thanks for the infoz guess Iv been missing out on free AA/gold LOL

Crismorn

06-02-2010, 04:06 PM

I still need 24 aa's <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/c30b4198e0907b23b8246bdd52aa1c3c.gif" border="0" />

AziBam

06-02-2010, 07:43 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Azian@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't understand why they have 3 token types in the first place. Should be one. Then people play the matches they want to because they enjoy them rather than only because they need a certain token type. Just adjust the #s to accomodate the longer duration of something like smugglers. </blockquote>Because they made 3 different maps and knew that players would eventually do the fastest one to get gear faster, the 3 shard system ensures that 2/3'rds of their content does not get overlooked because it takes longer to run</blockquote>Sorry, but I don't agree with your reasoning. First off, it makes the assumption that the only reason to run BGs is for tokens. Lots of people run them because they enjoy them. In addition, it's like saying, Bastion should give one type of mark but Cella should give another so that people don't choose to avoid content and only run whichever is the easier/faster one? Or, the seals I get from Labs shouldn't be the same as the seals I get from Palace as otherwise we might choose to raid in only the easier one, etc.How many heroic instances does SF have? They all give the same marks. How many instances did TSO have, they all gave the same void shards. I can freely choose which of those instances I'm going to run and will eventually get the tokens I need to purchase what I want. Like it or not, even PVP now has gone to one token other than BGs.I'll stick with my comment that it should be one currency and just adjust the values each zone gives.

Crismorn

06-02-2010, 07:47 PM

Cool, I'll stick with my comment that everyone will just run ganak with max runspeed and avoid fighting each other because its faster to get gear that way.

kaiserb

06-02-2010, 08:51 PM

Something needs to be done, in t7 ganak and smuggler's is non existant, took 2 hours once to get into a ganak and stopped trying for anything other than first available. I now have 143 gears tokens and around 18 ganak that I had to use a t4 character 8 hours to get. Is this to force me to level 90 to really start getting any pvp gear, or just a bad queue design?

sennsa

06-02-2010, 09:05 PM

I still havent done a smugglers run since I made this thread <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/c30b4198e0907b23b8246bdd52aa1c3c.gif" border="0" />please help us out

JoarAddam

06-02-2010, 10:52 PM

I queued for den at 5:15. It is now 8:51. 0 tokens, but i got my harvesting caught up to my current tier, so there's that...

JoarAddam

06-04-2010, 10:17 AM

Tier 8 seems to have a few unbalanced Den runs. 12 v 24, but at least you can get A token. (or 3 if you happen to be on the 24 team)

KniteShayd

06-10-2010, 08:11 AM

<cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Horknut@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>They're there. I'm not sure the 90 gold and the xp gives people more incentive to run Smuggler's beyond the need for the tokens.</blockquote>Well thats really wierd, I sware I only see 4 feathers everyday in QH on Nagafen for repeatable BG quest, and its only for Ganak and Gears.Something is fishy.Edit: found them and yes I am blind.</blockquote>I'm I ok to assume these quests are for T8-T9?I have yet to see anything like this for T4...The problem the OP is stating is that T4 doesn't have ANY Smuggler's runs.I think there should be something to solve the token issue. An exchange merchant would be ideal. Even if it is at a ratio exchange rate, or equal exchange with money or status costs.I wonder if it could be possible to have a merch that sells the same gear for separate amounts of token types. It would be a lil more work to implement but would be a better way to get people to do all the BG zones.How it'd work is merch 1 would offer chest piece for 60 Gears tokens, merch 2 would offer same item for 50 Ganak trophies, and merch 3 would offer the same item for 40 Smuggler's tokens. I think more people would be more likely to run the less run zones if it was offered like that. I get that the idea of current BG gear prices is to get people to run all the BG's but at this low lvl, it doesn't happen often. I have been doing T4 bg's off and on and have gotten maybe 30 Ganak tokens and about 75 Gears. 0, that is ZERO, Smugglers tokens.Another way to implement that kind of purchasing system is when you go to buy something you Hail the merchant, and it replies with an option to buy gear with specific token types, then it pops the window for that type to shop in.i.e. You say, "Hail, BG Armor Merchant"BG Armor Merchant says, "What king of money will you be using today?"<Click on option for token type>BG Armor Merchant says, "Excellant! I knew you had discriminating taste!"-Window opens up for whatever token type you chose, and costs an appropriate amount for that token's rarity-Rinse and repeat for all your tokens.My 2cp on a way to make it work.

Crismorn

06-10-2010, 02:54 PM

Ganak would be running 24/7, literally

Masuma

06-13-2010, 12:55 PM

i hate having to do smugglers for tokens. Its just no fun for fragile classes

Bolgon

06-13-2010, 07:26 PM

Just my 2 cents... but I'd say switch it to only 1 type of token.... just have different quantities per zone... Ie: Gears gives 1 for a loss 3 for a win.... ganak could be 2 for a loss, 6 for a win, smugglers 3 for a loss, 9 for a win or something a long those lines.... just a thought....

Prophet629

06-16-2010, 07:13 PM

<cite>channel wrote:</cite><blockquote>i'm gonna have to throw my 2cents in here <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" />this is mainly about lower level bgs... i do have a 90 main, and have been able to get smugglers on her and pass along bottles to lower levels - but i'd MUCH rather be focusing on actually playing my lower levels...issues i see1) in the 30-39, and 40-49 ranges - i have not seen ANY smugglers come up - and only 1 Ganak compared to dozens upon dozens of Gears2) the BG gear in the lower levels really sucks, like truly sucks - it's such a MINIMAL upgrade to MC gear it's not even funny....INQUISITOR GEARoh YAY! - i can put on MC gear with heal and damage procs (chest/legs) and 38 toughness in totalor i can put on the BG reward gear and 50 toughness, no procs - 3% crit and 40 ability modPLUS - health and power end up HIGHER on MC gear (due to 19 wis/sta compared to 12 wis/sta) on each piece - even if you take into account the +power/health - MC gear still grants more overall HP and Mana poolHMMMM - i think i'll stick with the MC gear which is infinitely easier to obtain than bg armor... ALSO - the suckiness i mention above is just the 7 main slots... forget about the BG jewelry and such - that stuff is worse than handcrafted - i get MUCH MORE from treasured gear in those slots than i do any of the BG jewelry at lvl 30-39in general: is the ability mod nice at low levels - SURE - but really 3% chance doesn't really do me much good imho, and i'm surviving just fine in BGs with 38 toughness...3) POWER in low level BGs - this is an issue ... the new strat is - keep folks with 0 power ALIVE so that they can't die to regen and while they are alive with 100% health and ZERO power ... all they can effectively do is auto-attack...Solution - make SMUGGLERS more enticing for lower levels - either with really really upgraded gear for smugglers tokens - like POWER PROC gear - do this for Ganak too.. make it a little more enticingOR - implement an exchange merchantThe other thing i would've loved to see is the WARFIELDS implemented as a seperate server as an ADDITIONAL battlegrounds scenariojust my 2cp</blockquote>I havent played smuggler's den till this day... (im lvl 32 - solo)I've tried to queue myself plenty times specifically for that game...times i waited over 30minutes...never got in..I have plenty tokens form gears...1/3 from ganak...there really is an imbalance..maybe cos of the amount of people required..nevertheless the outcome is a s*** load of gears!!I am willing to give up 3-5 gears for 1 bottle.. soe can ya make that happen?

Orthureon

06-16-2010, 07:20 PM

<cite>Bolgon wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just my 2 cents... but I'd say switch it to only 1 type of token.... just have different quantities per zone... Ie: Gears gives 1 for a loss 3 for a win.... ganak could be 2 for a loss, 6 for a win, smugglers 3 for a loss, 9 for a win or something a long those lines.... just a thought....</blockquote>That is the way I thought it was going to be from the start honestly.

Prestissimo

06-16-2010, 07:27 PM

Allow smugglers to start with anything more than 6 people on a side and fill it from there as people que in. Problem solved.Ganak: more than 4 and fill from there. Problem solved also.If there isn't population to sufficiently do the fight, just allow it to run at lower amounts of participants. Is there any reason you HAVE to have 4 groups to do smugglers? I've done one with 2 groups and some stragglers and it worked just fine other than the 3 hour que.

Taldier

06-16-2010, 08:28 PM

<cite>Azian@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Azian@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't understand why they have 3 token types in the first place. Should be one. Then people play the matches they want to because they enjoy them rather than only because they need a certain token type. Just adjust the #s to accomodate the longer duration of something like smugglers. </blockquote>Because they made 3 different maps and knew that players would eventually do the fastest one to get gear faster, the 3 shard system ensures that 2/3'rds of their content does not get overlooked because it takes longer to run</blockquote>Sorry, but I don't agree with your reasoning. First off, it makes the assumption that the only reason to run BGs is for tokens. Lots of people run them because they enjoy them. In addition, it's like saying, Bastion should give one type of mark but Cella should give another so that people don't choose to avoid content and only run whichever is the easier/faster one? Or, the seals I get from Labs shouldn't be the same as the seals I get from Palace as otherwise we might choose to raid in only the easier one, etc.How many heroic instances does SF have? They all give the same marks. How many instances did TSO have, they all gave the same void shards. I can freely choose which of those instances I'm going to run and will eventually get the tokens I need to purchase what I want. Like it or not, even PVP now has gone to one token other than BGs.I'll stick with my comment that it should be one currency and just adjust the values each zone gives.</blockquote>As much as I'd like to have one currency, I have to say that you are wrong.For every person that runs bg's because they find playing the exact same structured scenario over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again is so pleasantly enjoyable, there are 10 players in the same raid who just want tokens to buy gear.I would have to say that if pve instances did not drop different gear from names and had no reset timers that 90% of players would indeed be running library 24/7 if mark gear was worth wearing.No one has ever run difficult instances to farm shards or marks. They do it because they want gear drops that dont drop in easier instances.If all raid gear came from tokens and raid zones had no reset timers each guild would run all the zones once for progression and then farm the easiest one.This is simply human nature. If you heavily incentivize one thing. The majority of people will chose it over the option which is not subsidized with additional rewards.

AziBam

06-17-2010, 04:44 PM

<cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Azian@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Azian@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't understand why they have 3 token types in the first place. Should be one. Then people play the matches they want to because they enjoy them rather than only because they need a certain token type. Just adjust the #s to accomodate the longer duration of something like smugglers. </blockquote>Because they made 3 different maps and knew that players would eventually do the fastest one to get gear faster, the 3 shard system ensures that 2/3'rds of their content does not get overlooked because it takes longer to run</blockquote>Sorry, but I don't agree with your reasoning. First off, it makes the assumption that the only reason to run BGs is for tokens. Lots of people run them because they enjoy them. In addition, it's like saying, Bastion should give one type of mark but Cella should give another so that people don't choose to avoid content and only run whichever is the easier/faster one? Or, the seals I get from Labs shouldn't be the same as the seals I get from Palace as otherwise we might choose to raid in only the easier one, etc.How many heroic instances does SF have? They all give the same marks. How many instances did TSO have, they all gave the same void shards. I can freely choose which of those instances I'm going to run and will eventually get the tokens I need to purchase what I want. Like it or not, even PVP now has gone to one token other than BGs.I'll stick with my comment that it should be one currency and just adjust the values each zone gives.</blockquote>As much as I'd like to have one currency, I have to say that you are wrong.For every person that runs bg's because they find playing the exact same structured scenario over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again is so pleasantly enjoyable, there are 10 players in the same raid who just want tokens to buy gear.I would have to say that if pve instances did not drop different gear from names and had no reset timers that 90% of players would indeed be running library 24/7 if mark gear was worth wearing.No one has ever run difficult instances to farm shards or marks. They do it because they want gear drops that dont drop in easier instances.If all raid gear came from tokens and raid zones had no reset timers each guild would run all the zones once for progression and then farm the easiest one.This is simply human nature. If you heavily incentivize one thing. The majority of people will chose it over the option which is not subsidized with additional rewards.</blockquote>That's a fair argument. The problem I have with it though, is that it's something of an apples to oranges comparison. Random loot drops vs. predefined purchasable gear. No question or disagreement from me that when high quality random loot is the object, people will keep running whatever instance, easy or hard, to try to get the lucky roll of the dice. However, that isn't what BG loot is. It's much closer to mark or void gear in that you see it on a merchant and buy it after you amass the relevant coin needed. BGs departed from the existing pattern by going to a multiple currency requirement.Btw, I don't disagree with the premise both you and Crimsorn are referring to. I can certainly imagine that there are some people who would only run what they viewed to be the easiest map for tokens. There is a lot of very nice BG gear. I'm sure you are also right that there are people whose only incentive to run the BGs is exclusively to get the gear and then move on. I just don't think that's a good enough reason to shoehorn everyone else into maps they may not enjoy in order to have any access to the gear at all. I'm not overly passionate about this issue. I don't care for the three token types but I'm not going to /ragequit over the way it is now either. Given the problems of the lower tier BGs I think that one way or another something is going to change.

Crismorn

06-17-2010, 04:52 PM

There are people who will find the path of least resistance and then there are those that will use and perfect that path in order to take less time to get to their end goal which for most is gear.If they added token exchange at all it would for sure kill smugglers.Here are imo. the top 3 reasons people do not run smugglers on NA servers.- It takes longer then the other two bg's- As a solo player you influence the outcome less then the other 2 bg's so the chance of losing is greater then the other 2- Its harder to get 24 pre-sets together so the chance of losing is greater then the other 2 bg's

Seiffil

06-17-2010, 06:35 PM

I know timetraveling said they were looking into a way to do this, but I doubt we will see any kind of exchange. From the way it was phrased in his post, they want to allow the exchange but without it killing the other BG maps. As others have said repeatedly, if you implement a straight exchange, 3 - 1 or even 10 - 1 for smuggler's den tokens, people will choose to run gears and ganak since they can be completed faster, which is what the devs want to avoid.I don't know how you could legitimately implement any sort of token exchange without removing any reason to run smugglers at all. Maybe for lower few Tiers, T4-T6 they could remove smuggler's tokens from the gear requirements altogether, maybe even T7, but T8 and T9 the requirements should stay the same.

Armawk

06-17-2010, 09:19 PM

I would think it would be easy enough to make several (one major like shoulders, one minor like forearms, one jewellery perhaps) pieces of gear available for only klakanon tokens, or for any tokens.. that way you could get 2-3 items without running the others, but if you want the full set you have to do them

Prestissimo

06-18-2010, 09:18 AM

IMO: the 10 -> 1 token exchange for each step; klak 10->1 ganak 10->1 smugglers and it costs some coin (imo 2 plat) per exchange.If people really can't get the smuggler's matches, it's not like you couldn't go farm the repeatable quests on the docks of lavastorm for the coin or hock rares/fertilizers/muting components or do crafting writs for the coin (which would reduce the over abundent harvesting mats) then farm some klak/ganak matches for the tokens to exchange. The key operative component with this system would be that it is quite costly, much much less efficient, and it would destroy some of the massively over abundent resources floating around the game.Even if people did nothing but BGs, it would require you do at least 4 of the quests purely to fund one exchange. Thats at most one exchange a day with at minimum 3 matches won + 1 win or loss to get exchange klak tokens for a single ganak, and either 10 exchanges of ganak tokens, or minimum 3 wins + 1 win or loss in ganak to get a rum.That means 1 rum = about 100 klaks and many many plat, or 10 ganaks and a bit of plat, or just do the match. Either way, to get a few pieces of BG gear with that exchange rate and only doing klaks would be painfully expensive, and would be on par with funding your own T3 guild hall for that number of required rums. If you're doing both klaks and ganaks, it wouldn't be that terribad. A full set of BG 90 gear would be about 450 plat and that is assuming you have ample klak tokens and ample ganak tokens to trade in the most efficiently. Since the cost of the gear goes down 5 tokens each piece per tier, thats over a 50 plat difference per tier. It wouldn't be easily viable for the lower tiers unless you were dedicated to stay at that tier, but it's not trivial to the higher tiers.Besides, it makes ganak tokens more valuable than klaks, and you need several more ganaks than anything else. A full set of gear and say 5 peices of jewelry would cost about 225 klaks, 325 ganaks, and 250 rums. Making it more lucrative to run ganaks for the tokens either to purchase or exchange would be a win win either way for those trying to obtain tokens, and is no less exp/aa for those just after the cheap/easy exp.