Relic change

[leliloe]

<p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><span >Gears of Klakanon – the relic now resets as soon as it is dropped</span></span></p><p>Did a few runs on different toons to check it, seems like this change just killed the klak fun. This is just one boring big fight in the middle of zone.</p><p>Soe should delete half of zone, since we don't have to run anymore everywhere to try to keep it with a fun <span style="color: #00ffff;">team work</span> when there is no healer in pug. Just make gears a 10m square with the relic in the middle? Should work as intented like this...</p><p>Really sad about this change. Stupid and useless.</p>

[Krinta]

<p>I myself like this, it will let teams set up to guard the relic a while next to there respawn point still, But still when the rellic flat out one shots players it gives the other team the chance to get it and make up some points. While yes both teams can fight at the relic respawn point a group with good healers will be able to hold the relic still just like befor... for a little while, not all of the fight.</p>

[Dekedar]

<p>Played 2 gears matches so far and noticed both were fights in the center the entire time. Once I grabbed the relic and took off though and the entire enemy team followed me but I was running and couldn't type to my group, so they were still back there, so I was back at our side the enemy group killed me and the relic spawned back near my group.</p>

[Mosha D'Khan]

<p><cite>leliloe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><span>Gears of Klakanon – the relic now resets as soon as it is dropped</span></span></p><p>Did a few runs on different toons to check it, seems like this change just killed the klak fun. This is just one boring big fight in the middle of zone.</p><p>Soe should delete half of zone, since we don't have to run anymore everywhere to try to keep it with a fun <span style="color: #00ffff;">team work</span> when there is no healer in pug. Just make gears a 10m square with the relic in the middle? Should work as intented like this...</p><p>Really sad about this change. Stupid and useless.</p></blockquote><p>/agree</p><p>needs to be put back the way it was... this is all who can get to the center first... all you do is have someone go stand in center as the person will die and makes this a pointless game. personaly if the other team cant kill the team that has the relic to gain the relic then they should not get a easy button to get a change at it. pls put it back to the way it was!!!!</p>

[Draag]

<p>yeah, there is no point to the rest of the map now.. might as well just put us in a room with a relic in the middle.. cut down on our run time back to the middle at least.</p>

[Eritius]

<p>I have to say I like it better this way. Before it was about who got there first and then bring it back near your spawn to rez-zerg. Lets leave that tactic in WoW.</p><p>Now its a short little kill fest and you can't just nab it for a bit and sit comfortably anymore. Instead you have to stay constantly going.</p><p>There still is strategy, even more now, you want to bring the relic back while at the same time keeping peeps posted near the center to grab it when it drops. There's now two hotspots, one at the homebase of who has the relic and at the center. Before it was whereever the relic was.</p>

[Mosha D'Khan]

<p><cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have to say I like it better this way. <strong>Before it was about who got there first and then bring it back near your spawn to rez-zerg.</strong> Lets leave that tactic in WoW.</p><p>Now its a short little kill fest and you can't just nab it for a bit and sit comfortably anymore. Instead you have to stay constantly going.</p><p>There still is strategy, even more now, you want to bring the relic back while at the same time keeping peeps posted near the center to grab it when it drops. There's now two hotspots, one at the homebase of who has the relic and at the center. Before it was whereever the relic was.</p></blockquote><p>see but there are not 2 spots..... i ran it about 20 times last night and it is the same thing. the group charges at you until 1 relic person is about to die we shout k back to the middle in voice while the other group is clueless and then we get it again or the oppisite way if other team had relic. <strong>the way it is now makes it a RUN SPEED COMPEITION.</strong> it is who get back to middle first it is who runs back to their base to get heals ect..... i was talking to a friend last night and both me and him agree that they have just made it into a ganak battle because all you do now is fight in the middle. put it back to the way it was, it was fine that way and there was no need to change it.</p>

[Dareena]

<p>After playing about 10 Klak matches on my main at 90th, I'd have to say that I really don't like the changes.  I'll list my issues and objections below.</p><p>----------</p><p><strong>1) <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Losers:</span></strong>  While I hate to label people, I'm seeing a lot of complete losers invading the BG system.  Some players are instantly camping out within 15 seconds of the match starting.  Within that time, they decided that our team will lose and that a 5 minute truency buff is more desireable than playing though a match that they could potentially lose.  Or if those kinds of people do stay in the match, then they intentionally play horribly and basically throw the match.</p><p>Now I heard that these kind of people are just PvE schmucks who pulled this same kind of BS when the BG system went live.  They're there for just the gear and certainly not for an actual competition.  (Based on my observations, these schmucks are all from PvE servers.)  Unfortunately there's not much that SOE can do about these kinds of people.  I'm getting at least 1-2 morons from this pool in every match.  Hopefully within a month, the BG player population will go back to normal.</p><p>----------</p><p><strong>2) <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Area of Combat:</span></strong>  In all of my 10 matches, there was only 1 whole group who actually fought in our corridor during an even game.  Now there was a group or two who fought in the enemy corridors, but that was simply because we were slaughtering them and we were greedy for kill updates / Klak points.  Now this change in strategy might be temporary, but my observations is that everyone is just hanging around the central area.  This may be down below on the ball spawn or on the cat walks up above.  Yet it's almost as if most of the entire Klak map doesn't exist any more.  That really bothers me.</p><p>----------</p><p><strong>3) <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Body Blocking:</span></strong>  Now to pick up the Klak ball, you obviously have to click on it.  However the new issue that I'm seeing is that the team in control will literally stack up on top of each other on the ball spawn pad.  When ever their ball holder dies, I'm being physically blocked by their bodies.  Every time I try to click my cursor on the ball, I end up clicking on one of their players instead.  It's getting very hard to grab the ball at all amongst the sea of the other team.  Especially when my own team mates are avoiding this player cluster and throwing the game.  (See Point #1.)</p><p>----------</p><p>Are other people seeing the same kinds of issues?  I'd have to say that playing Klak last night was a real drag.  Trying out my new pieces of BG armor was entertaining, but having such poor and frustrating matches was far worse.</p>

[Grumble69]

<p>When I get the relic, I almost always drop it after about 10sec.  I'm not dying.  I'm near the center.  I'm not feigning.  What's causing that?</p>

[Dareena]

<p><cite>Grumble69 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>When I get the relic, I almost always drop it after about 10sec.  I'm not dying.  I'm near the center.  I'm not feigning.  What's causing that?</p></blockquote><p>Either you are intentionally teleporting or you're being teleported by an enemy player's effect.  While SOE is "looking into the matter", currently all forms of teleportation force the ball carrier to drop the ball.  So if a Warlock teleports you away, then you'll lose the ball.  Etc etc.  Right now, classes which can use teleportation as a weapon are extremely powerful.</p>

[Grumble69]

<p>And let me cast my vote for not liking the change.</p><p>It needs to reset to the center after one team has had it for 3min.  Right now it's just a FFA in the center with very little strategy.  We're not using the tunnels at all.  Now if we can hold onto it a short bit, we can retreat back to the tunnel.  But we won't be able to hole up for the entire match.</p><p>Alternatively, have multiple relic spawn points and when a person drops it, it respawns randomly in the zone.</p>

[Draag]

<p>yup.. since a klak can go 15mins now, i suspect you will see a lot more people taking truancy rather than stay in that group with 2 necros, 2 guards. and a conj.</p>

[Sluggo]

<p>""<strong>3) <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Body Blocking:</span></strong>  Now to pick up the Klak ball, you obviously have to click on it.  However the new issue that I'm seeing is that the team in control will literally stack up on top of each other on the ball spawn pad.  When ever their ball holder dies, I'm being physically blocked by their bodies.  Every time I try to click my cursor on the ball, I end up clicking on one of their players instead.  It's getting very hard to grab the ball at all amongst the sea of the other team.  Especially when my own team mates are avoiding this player cluster and throwing the game.  (See Point #1.)""</p><p>Guess i will start playing my warlock more</p>

[Harbringer Doom]

<p>I like the change.  I think there is more room for strategy now.  I always thought fighting in the middle of the map, on the relic pad, should provide your group some sort of advantage (like less relic damage) because it is the least defensible spot.</p><p>I think its more challenging to move the fight out of the halls, and into the open air.</p><p>There are still valid strategic reasons to fight in the halls, and with the right thought process (and the right consumables) it can provide a great advantage.</p>

[alabama]

<p><cite>Dareena@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>After playing about 10 Klak matches on my main at 90th, I'd have to say that I really don't like the changes.  I'll list my issues and objections below.</p><p>----------</p><p><strong>1) <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Losers:</span></strong>  While I hate to label people, I'm seeing a lot of complete losers invading the BG system.  Some players are instantly camping out within 15 seconds of the match starting.  Within that time, they decided that our team will lose and that a 5 minute truency buff is more desireable than playing though a match that they could potentially lose.  Or if those kinds of people do stay in the match, then they intentionally play horribly and basically throw the match.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">And what does this have to do with the klak changes? this goes on in all bg's</span></p><p>Now I heard that these kind of people are just PvE schmucks who pulled this same kind of BS when the BG system went live.  They're there for just the gear and certainly not for an actual competition.  (Based on my observations, these schmucks are all from PvE servers.)  Unfortunately there's not much that SOE can do about these kinds of people.  I'm getting at least 1-2 morons from this pool in every match.  Hopefully within a month, the BG player population will go back to normal.</p><p>----------</p><p><strong>2) <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Area of Combat:</span></strong>  In all of my 10 matches, there was only 1 whole group who actually fought in our corridor during an even game.  Now there was a group or two who fought in the enemy corridors, but that was simply because we were slaughtering them and we were greedy for kill updates / Klak points.  Now this change in strategy might be temporary, but my observations is that everyone is just hanging around the central area.  This may be down below on the ball spawn or on the cat walks up above.  Yet it's almost as if most of the entire Klak map doesn't exist any more.  That really bothers me.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Then do something about it and grab the relic and move it back into your corridor. Thats what i do when everyone starts to circle jerk in the middle. Im failing to see the problem here except your sad that people are fighting in the middle. Then say in group chat ..move. Problem solved.</span></p><p>----------</p><p><strong>3) <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Body Blocking:</span></strong>  Now to pick up the Klak ball, you obviously have to click on it.  However the new issue that I'm seeing is that the team in control will literally stack up on top of each other on the ball spawn pad.  When ever their ball holder dies, I'm being physically blocked by their bodies.  Every time I try to click my cursor on the ball, I end up clicking on one of their players instead.  It's getting very hard to grab the ball at all amongst the sea of the other team.  Especially when my own team mates are avoiding this player cluster and throwing the game.  (See Point #1.)</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Um i dont know if you noticed or not but body blocking is exactly what went on before the change just it happened in the corridors and whereever else the person with the rune was standing.</span></p><p>----------</p><p>Are other people seeing the same kinds of issues?  I'd have to say that playing Klak last night was a real drag.  Trying out my new pieces of BG armor was entertaining, but having such poor and frustrating matches was far worse.</p></blockquote><p>I really dont see what the big deal is on this one people. The only difference i noticed is for groups who arent stacked they actually have somewhat more of a chance to grab the relic once in awhile against the 3sk 3healer groups who cant die and just stand in one spot and wait the match out.</p><p>I like the change.</p><p>If you dont like the circle jerk in the middle MOVE the fight...simple enough.</p>

[Dareena]

<p><cite>alabama wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I really dont see what the big deal is on this one people. The only difference i noticed is for groups who arent stacked they actually have somewhat more of a chance to grab the relic once in awhile against the 3sk 3healer groups who cant die and just stand in one spot and wait the match out.</p></blockquote><p>Well you'd be shocked at the number of people who aren't in VC during a BG pug these days.  Nor do I have a mircophone, but maybe that's my issue.  However even in the past, there is an increasing number of people in the BGs who just want to PvP and don't care about watching the ball location or trying to win.  They even ignore Group Chat and other such things.</p><p>Also the quoted passage above makes me laugh.  Considering just how much our collective survivability has increased with the new BG forearms, boots, and +Critical Mitigation adornments, how can a non-stacked group have even the slightest hope of beating that dream team which you're describing?  Unless that dream team has no PvP gear and the attackers do, there really isn't a contest.  The new BG gear has seriously increased the player survivability while doing little to increase their offense.  Therefore a healer heavy time that's running multiple SKs is going to be nearly invincible if they're against opposition that is at an equal level of AA, gear, and skill.</p>

[Grumble69]

<p><cite>Dareena@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Grumble69 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>When I get the relic, I almost always drop it after about 10sec.  I'm not dying.  I'm near the center.  I'm not feigning.  What's causing that?</p></blockquote><p>Either you are intentionally teleporting or you're being teleported by an enemy player's effect.  While SOE is "looking into the matter", currently all forms of teleportation force the ball carrier to drop the ball.  So if a Warlock teleports you away, then you'll lose the ball.  Etc etc.  Right now, classes which can use teleportation as a weapon are extremely powerful.</p></blockquote><p>AHHhhhh, that's what it is, thx!</p>

[Grumble69]

<p><cite>Dareena@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well you'd be shocked at the number of people who aren't in VC during a BG pug these days.  Nor do I have a mircophone, but maybe that's my issue.  However even in the past, there is an increasing number of people in the BGs who just want to PvP and don't care about watching the ball location or trying to win.  They even ignore Group Chat and other such things.</p></blockquote><p>There are a small minority of VC users that keep me from using it on a regular basis.  I need 3 features:</p><p>1.  An absolute volume max control.  i.e. the volume never gets louder than a certain level.</p><p>2.  A quick mute button, preferably in the raid window.</p><p>3.  Remember my settings for each person from match to match.</p>

[Harbringer Doom]

<p><cite>Grumble69 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dareena@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well you'd be shocked at the number of people who aren't in VC during a BG pug these days.  Nor do I have a mircophone, but maybe that's my issue.  However even in the past, there is an increasing number of people in the BGs who just want to PvP and don't care about watching the ball location or trying to win.  They even ignore Group Chat and other such things.</p></blockquote><p>There are a small minority of VC users that keep me from using it on a regular basis.  I need 3 features:</p><p>1.  An absolute volume max control.  i.e. the volume never gets louder than a certain level.</p><p>2.  A quick mute button, preferably in the raid window.</p><p>3.  Remember my settings for each person from match to match.</p></blockquote><p><strong><a href="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001304/">SOE Developer Judge Chamberlain Haller</a></strong>: Grumble69? <strong><a href="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000582/">Grumble69</a></strong>: Yes, sir? <strong><a href="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001304/">SOE Developer Judge Chamberlain Haller</a></strong>: Those are three lucid, intelligent, well thought-out additions to the voice chat system. <strong><a href="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000582/">Grumble69</a></strong>: Thank you, sir. <strong><a href="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001304/">SOE Developer Judge Chamberlain Haller</a></strong>: Denied.</p>

[Beef_Supre]

<p>No kidding, I'm not about to turn on Voice when I've got my 2 year old Daughter coloring next to me, or my Wife working at her computer.. can you imagine how UNimpressed they would be with the colorful fun? And I don't want to don headphones and shut down my communication or awareness of what's going on in the (far more important) real world either.</p><p>Don't get me wrong, I'm completely aware of the strategic advantage of communication - hell, I taught other Marines how to use their frigging radios!- but it's not a situation so dire that I feel the need to embarass myself.</p><p>I watch Group chat, and respond to a reasonable command or idea, and even type back on occasion, but Voice chat just isn't gonna happen on a regular basis. Too obtrusive.</p><p>But, holy crap, I LOVE these BG's.</p>

[Eritius]

<p><cite>Mosha DKhan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><span >see but there are not 2 spots..... i ran it about 20 times last night and it is the same thing. the group charges at you until 1 relic person is about to die we shout k back to the middle in voice while the other group is clueless and then we get it again or the oppisite way if other team had relic. <strong>the way it is now makes it a RUN SPEED COMPEITION.</strong> it is who get back to middle first it is who runs back to their base to get heals ect..... i was talking to a friend last night and both me and him agree that they have just made it into a ganak battle because all you do now is fight in the middle. put it back to the way it was, it was fine that way and there was no need to change it</span></blockquote><p>Voice chat Premade vs a PUG... yeah expect those results even before the change. As for runspeeds thats what stuns and knockbacks are for. If it gets too out of hand, just have the relic suspend movement buffs.</p>

[Piccolo]

<p><em>The new change is horrable. ppl just sit in the center, aoe stun and keep grabbing the relic. Healers are completely pointless in Klak. let them heal til they are OOP then leave them standing around with thier thumb in their bum. </em></p><p><em>i havent been able to try any other BG. can never get in one. just sit there Qued for hours. change klak back to the way it was.</em></p>

[Goldenblue64]

<p>I hate the new changes and do not see the point of standing in the middle fighting for the relic. Once again Sony is out of touch with its customers and have no idea of what the customers want.</p><p>Put it back the way it was, BG has become pointless and no fun at all.</p><p>Sony is ruining a great game...might be time to cancel my account and look for a game that is fun again.</p><p>Shame Sony Shame!!!</p>

[Dekedar]

<p>I think a more reasonable change might be somewhere between the old rules and new one. Make the relic respawn at a faster rate than before, but not instantly, like 5 seconds or something. The new situation has taken away from what klak was and now it's just a deathmatch in the middle, nothing more. The team with more dps usually wins.</p>

[Sydares]

<p><cite>Gunthore@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The team with more healers and tanks usually wins.</p></blockquote><p>Fixed.</p>

[Armawk]

<p>I would give it a week before people have settled on the best strat for the new rules.. it took some time with the old ones before people figured out what actually works best.. it may be that something other than a big fight in the middle turns out to be the best way frankly.</p>

[StaticLex]

<p>I <strong>love</strong> this change to Gears.</p><p>The hall camping BS was noob strat that gave crappy teams a better chance of winning than they deserved.  Now it's more of a skill reliant non-zergfest where you need to have your team work together and use their tools to the max effect to get the relic.  Keep getting taunted?  Run up top and shoot down on the group that's camping the relic.  Opponents stacking on top of the relic pad to block your attempt to pick it up?  Learn to use hammer ground or rift to knock them off.  I mean seriously people, are you really too stupid to figure this kind of stuff out?</p><p>All I ask is that the relic bugs be fixed, otherwise I have to admit this instance is actually fun again.</p>

[leliloe]

<p><cite>StaticLex wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">The hall camping BS was noob strat</span> <span style="color: #ff0000;">that gave crappy teams a better chance of winning than they deserved.</span> </p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;">Yeah sure, the middle camping BS is so much more smart</span> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" />. <span style="color: #0000ff;">And before, a pick up team without healer had way more chances to win than now, using team work and running in whole zone to keep the relic, does that mean people were crappy when they were doing great</span>?</p><p>Now it's more of a skill reliant <span style="color: #ff0000;">non-zergfest</span> where you need to have your team work together and use their tools to the max effect to get the relic. </p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;">Non zergfest. wow. really? maybe we don't have the same definition for some words</span> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" /></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Keep getting taunted?  Run up top and shoot down on the group that's camping the relic.</span> </p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;">Fyi, most of taunts will still hit you when upstairs (but i don't see that as an issue.</span>)</p><p>Opponents stacking on top of the relic pad to block your attempt to pick it up?  Learn to use hammer ground or rift to knock them off.  <span style="color: #ff0000;">I mean seriously people, are you really too stupid to figure this kind of stuff out?</span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;">Seems like using the whole map and being able to take advantage of it isn't considered as a skill for you. Actually it is. skills aren't only "whatever class specific spell".</span></p></blockquote>

[StaticLex]

<p><em><span style="color: #0000ff;">Yeah sure, the middle camping BS is so much more smart</span> <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></em></p><p><span style="color: #ffffff;">Of course it is.  If you control the spot where the relic spawns then you control who wins the match.  Why do you think people camped in the hall at their spawn?  So they could best control where the relic dropped (via zerg).</span></p><p><em><span style="color: #0000ff;">And before, a pick up team without healer had way more chances to win than now, using team work and running in whole zone to keep the relic, does that mean people were crappy when they were doing great</span>?</em></p><p><span style="color: #ffffff;">Uhm, why can't people still run the whole zone with the relic?  Sorry but this arguement is complete and utter fail.</span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;"><span style="color: #0000ff;"><em>Fyi, most of taunts will still hit you when upstairs</em></span></span></p><p><span><span><span style="color: #ffffff;">Not for me.</span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;"><span style="color: #0000ff;"><span style="color: #0000ff;">Seems like using the whole map and being able to take advantage of it isn't considered as a skill for you.</span></span></span></p><p><span><span><span><span style="color: #ffffff;">1.) PEOPLE DIDN'T EVEN USE THE WHOLE MAP IN THE FIRST PLACE, they went and humped a wall in a hallway! (I find it funny that you somewhow remember things differently than were just to make an arguement though.)2.) Players are as free as they have ever been to "use the whole map".</span></span></span></span></p><p><span><span><span><span style="color: #ffffff;">Basically the entire opposition to the changes to this map are ridiculous.  There is nothing than can't be done now that couldn't be done before.  It looks to me like a handful of you people are simply [Removed for Content] that your mindless zerg strat in the hallway doesn't work as well as it used to.</span></span></span></span></p>

[leliloe]

<p>Seems like you only did klak with one toon, a healer. Obviously, you <span style="color: #ff0000;">don't have</span> <span style="color: #ff0000;">any idea</span> of what others classes could do before to help their team instead of just staying at one place spamming their heals. And they won't now, because there isn't anymore other strat than zerging the middle. (I should have noticed that there was a "static" in your name...)</p><p>I'm playing BG with 4 differents classes (including healer), and started with a 5th one recently. All i know is that this change made klak a near-to-zero-strat game, when it was much more interesting before.</p><p>It also seems like all people thinking different than you are called stupid or mindless. Well, i'm proud to be stupid or mindless then, seeing your arguements. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Eritius]

<p><cite>Sydares wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gunthore@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The team with more healers and tanks usually wins.</p></blockquote><p>Fixed.</p></blockquote><p>Wait I thought there were changes to this BG!</p>

[malificent26]

it's simple, the strategy for the game has been taken away.. that's all.. I could care less but, there is no point is trying to go to a 'base' or talk to your group mates about anything when it's just gonna repop in the middle of a field of people.. it's no longer who's group can work together better, it's who can jump the fastest..

[Harbringer Doom]

<p><cite>malificent26 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>it's simple, the strategy for the game has been taken away.. that's all.. I could care less but, there is no point is trying to go to a 'base' or talk to your group mates about anything when it's just gonna repop in the middle of a field of people.. it's no longer who's group can work together better, it's who can jump the fastest..</blockquote><p>I think you're not thinking the situation through enough.</p><p>For example, if you're organized, I believe fighting in the hall can provide a great advantage, and that's still where I'll have my group take the ball. </p><p>Here's why:  A lot of the time, we can control WHEN we drop the ball, leaving the other team 2 choices:</p><p>1)  Leave someone in the middle to capture the relic when we drop it, making them fight us 5 v. 6;</p><p>2)  Fight us 6 v. 6 and at the same time, try to keep track of when one of our team runs to middle to retrieve the relic we're about to purposefully drop.</p><p>Either way, when my team has the relic, we communicate about EXACTLY when its going to drop, still giving us the advantage on re-acquiring it, and knowing EXACTLY where its going to be.</p><p>The game requires more strategy now, not less.  Sure, you can CHOOSE to battle royale it in the middle, but that's not the most strategic plan.   By far.</p>

[StaticLex]

<p><cite>malificent26 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>it's no longer who's group can work together better, it's who can jump the fastest..</blockquote><p>lol..</p><p>Most of the time on my healer I go into these things with a premade group of 5 or 6.  We're all on vent and we're always talking about who needs to be taunted/killed, when and what abilities to hit, and how to time them to screw up the other group.  Because of this we win probably 98% of the matches we do.  But yeah you're right, it's probably just jumping skill or luck or something completely unrelated to teamwork. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p>

[bks6721]

<p>The further you take the relic (and your group) away from the center the lower the odds you'll get it when it respawns.  I've been winning 75% of my fights with my zerker standing on the relic spawn point.</p>

[Ballads]

<p>Meh tbh I liek the game way better now. There is way more room for strategy in the center then rushing back for a spawn zerg of regrabbing under your base. Center strat is very common now because its harder to kill people with melee unable to auto attack once and get their 5 pest rain and torrent procs to kill the other team. Your gonna have to come up with a better  plan and quit trying to win by just rushing in and AEing harder then they do. Learn to CC and assist spike. Learn to spot temp buffs on players. Learn to bait.</p>

[Eritius]

<p>If there is no strategy now and speed is everything. Get 6 bards and go in there. Don't use any tanks or healers. Tell me how well you do against another premade.</p><p>If there's any objections to that makeup, then your argument is lost.</p>

[Meirril]

<p>Honestly, all this does is make the perfered strategy a little more difficult to pull off. If your organized you should still be able to do it and retrieve the ball before the other team knows what is going on. If you not organized more than likely you'd be spending 90% of your time zerging the middle anyways, or watching your team run into the other team peicemeal like idiots.</p><p>This should liven things up. Sorry that the easy mode strategy has become a little more complicated. Try adjusting instead of knee jerk complaining.</p>

[Myster]

<p>Add my voice to those who dislike this horrible change. It really has become more of a speed focus and less strategy than before. Really, all it is now is fight in the middle and hope you click the thing before the other team, if you can even get to the other person's relic bearer to kill them.</p><p>That's not really a strategy.</p>

[Xaria]

<p><cite>Mysteran@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Add my voice to those who dislike this horrible change. It really has become more of a speed focus and less strategy than before. Really, all it is now is fight in the middle and hope you click the thing before the other team, if you can even get to the other person's relic bearer to kill them.</p><p>That's not really a strategy.</p></blockquote><p>Come on people.  how is this strategy any different than before?  Before it was rush in, grab the relic, and run back and camp in your hallway.  And when the relic drops, you hope your team grabs it before the other.</p><p>Now instead of having a highly defensible position to hold back the other team next to your own spawn point, you are fighting in the middle, where either team can try to hold the high ground or try to hold the spawn point.  The one thing I see is that now, communication is even more important as just sitting in a corner stacked on top of each other out of LoS is no longer a "strategy".</p><p>Who would have thought people would actually be against all out fighting in PvP.  </p>

[Eritius]

<p>I just ran a BG in Klak and my team got the relic. Not because we were there first, but because we killed the other team off. We then moved the relic to THEIR spawn area and killed them as they jumped down. Whenever our relic holder died, we sent someone to grab it and continued killing.</p><p>No speed needed, we just obliterated the other team. This debunks the speed race argument. No Selo's, no SoW, nothing like that. Just random PUG vs random PUG. Just one team was better prepared and didn't run like maniacs.</p><p>If you all want to turn it into a speed race, please do so. When I start going in with Premades, I'm going to have an **'n field day. Never thought I'd see a SK run from a Relic holder before.. that was pretty funny.</p>

[oneeyedlotus]

<p>Seems that most of the people complaining fail to realize that the point of having the relic in Klak is to kill, not just sit and hold it.  Its murderball not grab and hold. If you do alittle research youd see that your ment to grab the ball and try to get as many kills as possible while holding the relic, not just grab and sit on it.  IMO they should just change it so that you only get points for kills and a bonus for kills when your team holds relic, and get rid of the whole points for just holding the relic.</p><p>Now that you dont have the realitive safty of the little corner by your base and your forced to PVP (this is PVP BTW) you probbally realize you just aren't good at it and instead of workign on gear/skills you rant. You should be forced into center, being in center there are still places to hide, or get other advantages (perspective etc). I for one am glad that i don't have to spend the whole match sitting in a corner or tring to get in another corner.</p>

[Mosha D'Khan]

<p><cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I just ran a BG in Klak and my team got the relic. Not because we were there first, but because we killed the other team off. We then moved the relic to THEIR spawn area and killed them as they jumped down. Whenever our relic holder died, we sent someone to grab it and continued killing.</p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;"><strong>No speed needed, we just <span style="font-size: medium;">obliterated</span> the other team</strong></span>. This debunks the speed race argument. No Selo's, no SoW, nothing like that. Just random PUG vs random PUG. Just one team was better prepared and didn't run like maniacs.</p><p>If you all want to turn it into a speed race, please do so. When I start going in with Premades, I'm going to have an **'n field day. Never thought I'd see a SK run from a Relic holder before.. that was pretty funny.</p></blockquote><p>wow.....</p><p>just high lighted the statement that makes this a /fail post.</p><p>if you obilerated the other team you should not need speed. but if you did not obilerated you would. and for the people saying it was ment to just be you and the other team fighting it out in the center, i think they would have just made a  barren field with no walls, no 2nd floor, and you would ahve respond right in the middle. all this match has become is another big brawle in the middle like ganak.</p><p>and for you all that say oh we communicate and are (most likely a premade) group that works together, well there is why you win. you most likely tweaked out, group of people that know how to work with each other, kicking the crap out of a competely random PUG, and you think that is worth braggin about.</p><p>the relic change was not needed. i agree you should not try to sit on it but the game is called keep the relic. not go try to kill everything in your path with it. it needs to be changed back because this is jsut making it a speed race if you dont stand in middle or they just need to make it a team deathmatch, make it like first to 150 and get ride of the relic.</p>

[Harbringer Doom]

<p><cite>Vadex@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> IMO they should just change it so that you only get points for kills and a bonus for kills when your team holds relic, and get rid of the whole points for just holding the relic.</p></blockquote><p>Totally disagree.  </p><p>I'm uninterested in waiting out the 15 mins when the other team stops coming down from their spawn point.</p>

[leliloe]

<p>Actually there is ONE good point to this change:</p><p>95% of players (the 5% missing are those who play BG only in premade or the lazy ones that are happy to not have to run anymore) are so much bored about it that they now queue for ganak or den only, so we get more X2 or x4 than before <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Eritius]

<p><cite>Mosha DKhan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><span ><p>wow.....</p><p>just high lighted the statement that makes this a /fail post.</p><p>if you obilerated the other team you should not need speed. but if you did not obilerated you would. and for the people saying it was ment to just be you and the other team fighting it out in the center, i think they would have just made a  barren field with no walls, no 2nd floor, and you would ahve respond right in the middle. all this match has become is another big brawle in the middle like ganak.</p><p>and for you all that say oh we communicate and are (most likely a premade) group that works together, well there is why you win. you most likely tweaked out, group of people that know how to work with each other, kicking the crap out of a competely random PUG, and you think that is worth braggin about.</p><p>the relic change was not needed. i agree you should not try to sit on it but the game is called keep the relic. not go try to kill everything in your path with it. it needs to be changed back because this is jsut making it a speed race if you dont stand in middle or they just need to make it a team deathmatch, make it like first to 150 and get ride of the relic.</p></span></blockquote><p>Not try to kill everything in your path? What point are you trying to make? On one hand you don't want it to be a speed race, good kill stuff. Then you say it shouldn't be a killfest which means run with it. Which is it? I don't think you know what you want, you're just [Removed for Content] off all round. Maybe you should stop queuing for the BG?</p>

[KaleMuteki]

<p>I don't know about the 90 BG's, because I stopped running those on my Swash when I realized I couldn't last 2 seconds without PVP gear.  Kejekan armor was too expensive for it's effects, and the lvl 80 MC was crap at 90 (worked great in the 80 BG's though).</p><p>In the 30's BGs on my Paladin, I've found that camping in the middle is <em>the strategy</em> if you want to <strong>lose</strong>.  I've lost maybe 2 Klak rounds before I realized that as long as my teammates fight in the middle, half the other team will chase me up to my spawn and try to kill me.  Since the DPS at this tier isn't the highest, I'm able to keep myself up for a fairly long amount of time.</p><p>Then, if my teammates are aware, there will be one guy in the center to pick up the relic when I die, and he does what I did while I wait in the center to pick it up.  Rinse, repeat, win.  And I've done this against groups where they had 2 healers to 1 (me...).</p><p>Of course this strategy probably isn't as useful in higher tier BG's due to all the DPS and status ailments that can be flung around, but I've found it rather viable in the lower tiers.  Eventually I started to see my teammates from previous matches use my own strategy against me, and made the BG's very interesting <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />.  Ganak can be really boring at lower tiers though...</p>

[goryf]

<p><cite> </cite></p><p>Yes the hall camping gave the crappy teams a chance. with the ability to pass the relic to a team mate when you die, it helped you choose what classes could fight without worrying about the relic damage. this let everyone fight at thier peek. there were breaks and rest. ppl would sit at spawn or in thier halls to regroup and charge. those defending the relic would use strat, have scouts watching the back side, tanks in front, healers in the middle, ppl shifting to what ever side they were needed most. i was addicted to BG before this because i never knew what was going to happen. one round i would own, the next i would get owned. stuff was organized though in klak. now.... it is spawn>run to middle>fight/heal till oop>spam click the relic spot, run till dead. i have run well over 50 klaks since halas and the change and not once have i seen any sort of team work. the rule was great before. if the relic wasn't picked up within a good amount of time it would reset. now how about maken it the same but just shortening the reset time? 3 seconds should be enough.  i invite the devs to join a klak or two under disguise and see the chaos this change has created out of a somewhat fair and stratigic BG. now it almost seems like it is every player for themselves. there is nothing even fun about klak anymore. 6 vs 6 yet the grps are FORCED to seperate and now that there are no premades (of which i have never been a part of one)....  if you are going to be rid of one source of organization then please do not be rid of the other. the fact that we could hold in the hall and defend, decide where to attack, who to attack, when to attack. again i will say it. there is no orginazation to this now.</p><p>my vote. CHANGE IS BAD!!!!</p><p>and again i will DARE the devs to come see the crap they created (i call the whole concept of klak now crap). i promise that they will see how unstable each round is.</p><p>was anyone QQ about the relic NOT reseting asap when dropped before? if it ain't broken don't break it.</p><p>i have always seen the reasons behind everything that devs have done and i have always supported thier actions. even with everyone else QQ. this is the first time though that i have lost faith in them.  sad time peeps, sad times indeed.</p><p>i think i am done with this. i'll go longboarding or play some other head to head game that knows how to instill a sence of organizational ability for thier player's. you know the game, it's every other game for every other gaming system.</p>

[Dekedar]

<p>I honestly dread going into gears now. I cannot easily express how much I hate this change and hate the entire gears match now. I would never go in there again if I didn't need gears tokens and once I get them I'll never go in there again until this is fixed. As the last poster said, I challenge the dev's to go into a gears match and TRY to have fun. Good luck.</p>

[Avirodar]

<p>I do not agree with people who believe this change removed or reduced strategy. From my experience, it did the opposite.If your team has the relic, and does not move back to a more defensive position, you make things easier for the enemy.If their team has the relic, and does not move back to a more defensive position, be grateful.I participated in several gears matches today. In all but one, the relic was being moved back into base by both teams.Duking it out in the middle of the map makes it so much easier for utility and DPS to prey on healers, compared to confines of smaller passageways near the bases. It is poor strategy to remain in the middle unless the current battle is too fierce to safely move.I was in a BG match, no tank, and the other team had several nagafen players (with tank+heals and all the good stuff). A significant reason behind our win was usage of the narrow passageways near our base to set up suitable defense. If they left a player in the middle for a relic grab, they were running into us 5 on 6, at a position of our choosing.I have read very accurate posts from other people, detailing how this change has enhanced the capacity for strategy and gameplay variances in Gears. Teams that would have dominated before, will still dominate. Close matches now require more dynamic strategy than camp+pray in hallways.Grats SOE.</p>

[Davngr1]

<p>this was neither a good change or a bad change in my opinion.</p><p>  it does not require any more strategy then the other way did.   it's just different and different is good.</p><p>  please keep trying to add new maps and strategy to keep this a thinking game.</p>

[goryf]

<p>I am always in vent and reading grp chat. on my healer i am always yelling at the relic holder to come back to our base and defende with everyone but most inportantly STAND STILL AND LET ME HEAL!!!! niether in vc or grp chat have i yet to see any resemblance to strat.</p><p>if there was i would be one of the most enthusiastic followers of anything that wont make my head explode.</p>