BG Armor should be upgradeable [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Shiirr

05-26-2010, 06:00 PM

<cite>Gunthore@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shiirr@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Draagun wrote:</cite><blockquote>I agree - what they have done is just a kick in the teeth.</blockquote>How is it a kick in the teeth? That's the way it's been on PvP servers forever. New trumps old, so you start over with the gear grind.</blockquote>Maybe you aren't aware of this, but there are only 2 PvP servers and there are MANY more PvE servers. Also, that dev response doesn't address this issue. He's just stating T1 BG armor doesn't have blue adorns, I know that, the question is why can't we have an upgrade system or a buy back where we get some tokens in return, but what makes most sense is an upgrade system because we're already used to it since TSO and shard armor.</blockquote>I understand the point. Second account, I haven't reactivated my first one, which I rolled on Nagafen day one. Before PvP gear. PvP gear which was promised to only be available on PvP servers. Here's the funny part, though, as PvE'ers can level to max AP's, PvP in BG's in gear that wasn't earned on a PvP server end-game where it's open PvP, and can level up without PvPing. I'm playing on a blue server with some friends, and getting back into the saddle again, but the difference between levelling blue & levelling red is still night & day. That aside, clarify "some". Because PvP brings out the ugly in people. You might say "some" is a trivial amount, maybe 10% of the original cost, and figure "Well, it beats transmuting it". The next guy would demand 20%, as a mere 10% is insulting, a mere token gesture. Within two more pages you'd have half a dozen crying that their guild is quitting en-masse if we don't get a 90% return on all those tokens, because we worked so hard (despite people farming the crap out of Lavastorm to the point where even Katsuo was a Master). And the thread would be locked.

snowzeh

05-26-2010, 06:14 PM

<cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you've ever gotten honor buy or arena buy gear in WoW, this concept of starting from the beginning when newer gear comes out shouldn't be an alien concept.</blockquote>I don't play Wow.I play Eq2. I would not have spent my BG tokens on gear that would be obsolete in a month,had I known about it.

Stubbswick

05-26-2010, 07:05 PM

<cite>snowzeh wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't play Wow.I play Eq2. I would not have spent my BG tokens on gear that would be obsolete in a month,had I known about it.</blockquote>It's been on test for almost a month. There have been ongoing discussions about it on the forums.I'm guessing part of what motivates the decision is to keep people playing Battlegrounds. The people who really care about Battlegrounds will be happy to keep playing to get the better armor (and in the meantime, they'll already have their old armor which is pretty beefy). The people who just want it for appearances, or for fabled-quality gear outside of Battlegrounds... well they're going to have to suck it up and go back to grinding Battlegrounds.<cite>Gunthore@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Maybe you aren't aware of this, but there are only 2 PvP servers and there are MANY more PvE servers. Also, that dev response doesn't address this issue. He's just stating T1 BG armor doesn't have blue adorns, I know that, the question is why can't we have an upgrade system or a buy back where we get some tokens in return, but what makes most sense is an upgrade system because we're already used to it since TSO and shard armor.</blockquote>TSO shard gear had a whole upgrade system, but I think that's been pretty much the only expansion that has. The SF legendary gear you buy in Paineel can't be upgraded in Moonfield - if you want more, you gotta buy it. There's only a few pieces of SF raid gear that can be upgraded, and if you get a new piece of raid armor from say hardmode, you don't get to upgrade adorns and such.Some people loved the TSO armor system, some people hated it. But based on the direction armor has gone in SF, I don't think you can argue that upgrading armor sets is the "norm" of EQ2. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, I think they went back and changed TSO armor to not require upgrades (at least WoE stuff).

Jonaroth

05-26-2010, 07:09 PM

<cite>snowzeh wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you've ever gotten honor buy or arena buy gear in WoW, this concept of starting from the beginning when newer gear comes out shouldn't be an alien concept.</blockquote>I don't play Wow.I play Eq2. I would not have spent my BG tokens on gear that would be obsolete in a month,had I known about it.</blockquote>/agreeIf I had known it was going to be obsolete I never would have bothered with it. Now I don't know If I'll do BGs again if my armor is just going to be obsolete again in a month... That stuff was hard to get, I worked hard for it, dozens of hours of PVP just to get some obsolete gear. lame.

Corydonn

05-26-2010, 08:16 PM

The gear is to reward those that continiously play the Battlegrounds. I've already got enough tokens to get the Season 2 and perhaps even Season 3 armor.

Dekedar

05-26-2010, 08:29 PM

I'd be content with a 50% return. I'd be happy with 75%-80%. This isn't just a return on my tokens, it's a return on my investment of time, which went from valueable with my T1 gear to worthless with T2 gear coming out. Literally I could not have possibly had a worse outcome for my investment.It's just, why even off this armor anymore for sale? Because it doesn't make any sense to buy the T1 armor ever again. It's only 10 more tokens (x2) which is an insignifacnt amount compared to the total, like I pointed out before, T1 armor is around 600 total tokens, T2 is 680, who in their right mind would ever get T1. And frankly, it's too much work to use for appearance armor imo, I would never spend that much time. Someone said it doesn't take much time to get a full set of armor, it takes a ton of time. Lets say you avg 2 tokens per game, you need 340 games, at 10-15 minutes per game you are looking at 56-85 hours of time spent in BG. That's a lot of time.I guess my point is that people don't enjoy putting time in to things to have them turn out useless. I thought the new lead dev said he wanted to make the game as enjoyable as possible for as many as possible. Well I'm not enjoying this idea, and I don't feel like I'm sitting here asking for free BG armor or anything overly unreasonable. I would just like some sort of return on my time, and as with any investment, the bigger the return the happier I'll be. I mean, who are you going to get to invest in something by telling them their future outlook on the investment is whatever they invest x 0. The only reason myself and so many others did invest in T1 armor was SoE failed to let us know about their plans to negate all the work we'd put into this effort. And "It's been on test for x amount of time" is not a valid argument because not everyone plays on test or has the chance to see all these updates before they are implemented, had I known about this earlier you can bet I would have brought it up, but I didn't, so here it is now.

Lethe5683

05-26-2010, 08:29 PM

Why not add a merchant to allow you to sell your old bg armor for half the tokens you paid for it?

Dreadpatch

05-26-2010, 08:29 PM

I guess I'm mildly annoyed that I spent a bunch of time getting gear that was effective for about a month. I could probably get passed that if I didn't have to fight for more tokens in the same 3 tired zones/maps with the same three tired game types. Maybe add some different game types in the existing zones/maps or add some maps. Spend less time trying to upgrade gear a tiny bit and shift that effort in giving us some new playing content FTW!!!!!

Eritius

05-26-2010, 09:34 PM

<cite>snowzeh wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you've ever gotten honor buy or arena buy gear in WoW, this concept of starting from the beginning when newer gear comes out shouldn't be an alien concept.</blockquote>I don't play Wow.I play Eq2. I would not have spent my BG tokens on gear that would be obsolete in a month,had I known about it.</blockquote>Its called progression. Thats a mechanic thats been around since 1999. Oh wait you play EQ2 not EQ1 even though they carried that idea over.Its just like PVE. When you kill a raid boss it drops gear, equip that gear and go kill a harder boss for better loot. Now replace raid boss with other players. Just be glad you started when you did and you're not starting from the beginning with no BG gear vs Tier 2 or in the future players with Tier 3 BG gear.

Draag

05-26-2010, 11:41 PM

Progression is one thing... this is something different.The problem is that it was too soon. If it had been 6months, people would still baulk, but maybe the "progression" argument might hold a little more water.This is just a .... poor move on their part.

Superiorxgodz

05-27-2010, 02:57 AM

I agree with Dekedar. The gear we have earned should not go to waste. It will just make people unmotivated to get the next season gear if they know that in a little while, the newer gear is going to come out and they can buy that instead of waste their toekns now.

Draag

05-27-2010, 03:15 AM

And who knows how long it will be?? Next week? 2 Months? 6months?Hard to make a plan with 0 communication. Like a previous poster said, if I had known better stuff was gonna be out so soon, I would have not spent my tokens. That's why its a kick in the teeth.

Valdar

05-27-2010, 05:15 AM

<cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Its just like PVE. When you kill a raid boss it drops gear, equip that gear and go kill a harder boss for better loot. Now replace raid boss with other players. Just be glad you started when you did and you're not starting from the beginning with no BG gear vs Tier 2 or in the future players with Tier 3 BG gear.</blockquote>No.This would be like getting a full set of VP gear, only to have a new set released once you finally have it, so you can go back to farming the same zone over and over for slightly better gear.If we get a new season set in 3 months again I am seriously done with gearing through BG's. Better off going back to raiding and playing the odd BG match as just the thought of another 100 smugglers den matches makes me sick..

StaticLex

05-27-2010, 08:05 AM

This was a classic screwjob by SOE. I tolerate expansions making raid gear obsolete because they happen once every 1-2 YEARS. I look at my BG gear now and it's inferior after 2 [Removed for Content] MONTHS.Oh well, at least I've learned the lesson early on I guess. If anyone thought it was like pulling teeth to get me into a Smuggler's Den to farm up one set of gear.. now that I know anything I farm will be garbage in a few months I can almost guarantee you'll never see me in that zone again.

crunn

05-27-2010, 12:04 PM

What a remarkable shambles this is. Did they not think this through? Not realise this would simply anger everyone?Definitly needs an upgrade system.Classic soe, come up with a stupid idea then blinkerd run with it despite everyone saying no that wont work.I'm fairly annoyed with the whole BG set up anyway but this T2 gear so soon for almost the same price as the T1, the price drop in T1 right after i bought it. So many long hours grinding BG over the months just to be made obsolite with no warning (unless you play or read test server and dont mind the spoilers)Its like SOE are trying to sabotage BG. with one little update they managed to anger and irritate almost everyone.Well I finished my T1 set looking forward to start upgrading it to T2 (TSO style trade in) but now i see it was all for nothing. I've not been back into BG since im so annoyed and i might not go back at all.What next? another month or two they put in T3 and make it all pointless and obsolite again, then T4 and so on. I for one dont have infinite time to endlessly grind tokens for items that will be worthless by the time i have enough.It has all turned throw-away consumerism. Its giving a bad message. The reason for the current global finacial disaster is being embraced, celebrated and taught to our children by SOE. (i might be pressing the point a little far there but it is true)

Yimway

05-27-2010, 12:18 PM

Guys, pvp is not the carebear easymode of progression that pve is in this game.Its designed to reward those that put in the most effort, and little is done for 'the little guy' trying to keep up on 10% of the same time invested.You grind out new tokens/sets each time they are released, thats the game. If you don't like that game or feel like you can't keep up, then your best sticking to PVE.

Shiirr

05-27-2010, 12:21 PM

<cite>Draagun wrote:</cite><blockquote>Progression is one thing... this is something different.The problem is that it was too soon. If it had been 6months, people would still baulk, but maybe the "progression" argument might hold a little more water.This is just a .... poor move on their part.</blockquote>Okay, the bolded part I can't argue with; it's a valid point. Timing never has been their strong suit, though. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Umub

05-27-2010, 12:37 PM

If find it a little confusing when people are upset by having to "grind" for the newest armor.It seems to me that if you like BGs then you will keep playing BGs and be able to upgrade your armor as you go along. And during that time have the benefit of the really good fabled BG armor you already have. The new BG armor is better but not so much that the "old" stuff is obsolete or useless.If you don't like BGs and are just grinding to get better BG armor, then my suggestion is to quit playing BGs and do something you enjoy.

malificent26

05-27-2010, 01:05 PM

I don't give a damned about grinding for the newest armor, I care that's it's been TWO MONTHS!! WHEN has there been a change in armor like this in TWO MONTHS? You say it's PVP, well a lot of the folks playing are PVE and it's NOT like that. Someone mentioned a new boss to kill and will drop better gear, what has changed in Battlegrounds? Give us new Battlegrounds then! And who said we don't like Battlegrounds! It's a great concept but the truth is to do something like this with no exchange IS a real 'kick in the teeth' as was mentioned and there is no way around that, no matter how you try to smooth it over. Two months is two months... NOT a long time.. So screw the folks that had a lot of time to put into that game and get the tokens.. that's really nice... and whatever you say to try and SMOOTH this over is not going to work with everyone.. Battlegrounds IS open to PVE and NO we don't EXPECT changes like this to happen and feel like we just wasted time... So to heck with you answers of it being a "dynamic game that changes" if that's the best you've got for us folks after TWO MONTHS, then you don't care about your players. And from now on? I will not spend one token for any of my players, might just as well sit on them for another few months until tier6 comes out, and maybe buy that one.. after all I can just go in BG and lose, if I have time on my hands collecting one token at a time is no big deal, so you've really enriched the game...I don't care if it was mentioned in the forums or any place else, if it wasn't mentioned in game, where I play, where I spend my time, then it doesn't count.. This is the first time I've come here and probably the last. I bought the game to play, not to do test and try it out for them... I play, and so now, I get screwed.. THANKS SO MUCH!

Stubbswick

05-27-2010, 01:17 PM

<cite>malificent26 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't give a damned about grinding for the newest armor, I care that's it's been TWO MONTHS!! WHEN has there been a change in armor like this in TWO MONTHS? You say it's PVP, well a lot of the folks playing are PVE and it's NOT like that.</blockquote>Two new raid zones just came out with brand new loot, as well as brand new instance loot. As well as new fabled items on merchants. I spent some raid tokens on one or two jewelry pieces to fill a few holes. Now there's weapons for sale that I could have spent those tokens on... should I get upset and demand for a way to sell my jewelry back (even though it's served a purpose for the last week or two?) All this happened in the same timeframe you're talking about. So yeah... it is that way for PvE as well.Also, I was the one who brought up that it was on Test. That's fair, a lot of people don't follow stuff that happens on Test. But I remember Brenlo talking about Battlegrounds in a senior producer letter, basically saying there was going to be gear sets and progression.I dunno, I mean I understand where you're all coming from - it kinda sucks if you just recently bought a lot of the items. But that's MMOs for ya. If you're not hungry for the next latest and greatest gear, you'd just get bored.

malificent26

05-27-2010, 01:18 PM

<cite>StaticLex wrote:</cite><blockquote>This was a classic screwjob by SOE. I tolerate expansions making raid gear obsolete because they happen once every 1-2 YEARS. I look at my BG gear now and it's inferior after 2 [Removed for Content] MONTHS.Oh well, at least I've learned the lesson early on I guess. If anyone thought it was like pulling teeth to get me into a Smuggler's Den to farm up one set of gear.. now that I know anything I farm will be garbage in a few months I can almost guarantee you'll never see me in that zone again.</blockquote>Oh you'll probably see me in the zone, I will most likely be picking daisies and getting my one token though! and what do I care about getting killed all the time and not trying!?!? one token at a time.. this way in another TWO months I will have enough maybe!

Seduction

05-27-2010, 01:47 PM

<cite>Umub wrote:</cite><blockquote>If find it a little confusing when people are upset by having to "grind" for the newest armor.It seems to me that if you like BGs then you will keep playing BGs and be able to upgrade your armor as you go along. And during that time have the benefit of the really good fabled BG armor you already have. The new BG armor is better but not so much that the "old" stuff is obsolete or useless.If you don't like BGs and are just grinding to get better BG armor, then my suggestion is to quit playing BGs and do something you enjoy.</blockquote>I can completely agree with this.I am at a loss at those who said they "wasted" their tokens on the original BG armor. Players saw fabled gear they wanted on the merchants and they traded their tokens for it. To the largest extent, players were happy with their new armor. Like anything else you'd buy in life, you got something in return for your "money".Some of these players only became unhappy because, upon launch of GU56, they didn't automatically have the best anymore. There was something out there they didn't have. Worse yet, others who had not bought the original BG armor could have this new armor without having to first get the old set. I imagine that these players are feeling as if their accomplishments should be rewarded by forcing everyone else to go through the same progression they did. This is understandable to a point. It is only natural that, if we work for something, we do not want others to have it unless they work for it as well.However, here is the problem: as Umub alluded to, the purpose of the BG system is not to award players gear. Really. The purpose of BGs is to allow players to participate in team-oriented PvP activities. The gear is--bad pun-- an accessory to the BG system.Now, I expect that someone may retort with "Well, you could say the same thing about PvE raid content: the purpose is to allow you to participate in team-oriented PvE activities and we use a progressive gear trade-in system for that." However, there is a progression to raid content. You need better gear to go after the next target, rinse and repeat. And there is no progression in BGs. The players you fight tomorrow aren't necessarily better-skilled or better-geared than the ones you fought today. Over time, sure, your potential opponents will, on average, become better-skilled and better-geared the more they do BGs; but, also, over time so will you.So, if you enjoy doing BGs, then what is the big deal that you "have to do" more of them in order to continue having the top BG gear? Is it that large a source of stress and apprehension that you can't go more than 2 days before once again having the best of the best of something? And let's be honest: the Challenger series of BG armor isn't head and shoulders better than the initial BG armor. Is it better? Sure it is! But, seriously now, how many BG matches will really be affected by the small differences between the two sets of gear? Will players in the original armor really be unable to stand against those wearing the new armor? PvP is all about responding quickly to what is happening around you. Are these players really willing to state that their skills are less a factor in determining the outcome of a match then the small difference between these gear sets?Therefore, if you're just doing BGs to "get your armor" and you are not enjoying them for what they are, then stop causing yourself the needless stress of "grinding" and find something else to do that will enable you to have fun. If you're doing BGs for the purpose of having competitive team PvP fun, then "slaving" or "grinding" tokens really is a non-issue.

StaticLex

05-27-2010, 04:35 PM

Hard to have fun in a BG when your face is being melted off in 2 seconds. What stops that from happening? Oh, that's right.. BG gear! The problem here is nobody is complaining about having progression, but progression is pointless if players can't even have some time to savor the items that they've acquired. 2 months is a flaming crock.

Dekedar

05-27-2010, 04:45 PM

But unlike anything else in life, after you exchange sometimg for your "money" it doesn't arbitrarily become worthless after a certain (especially such a short) amount of time.The second part of your qoute is simply untrue. No one is upset that T1 BG armor didn't magically turn into T2 armor, which is what you are implying and that is incorrect. The problem lies in the fact that our initial investment is now worthless. No one is asking for a free upgrade, they are asking simply for a means to get some sort of return on the initial armor. A trade-in, an upgrade system, anything.<cite>Ryka@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am at a loss at those who said they "wasted" their tokens on the original BG armor. Players saw fabled gear they wanted on the merchants and they traded their tokens for it. To the largest extent, players were happy with their new armor. Like anything else you'd buy in life, you got something in return for your "money".Some of these players only became unhappy because, upon launch of GU56, they didn't automatically have the best anymore.</blockquote>

Seduction

05-27-2010, 05:08 PM

<cite>Gunthore@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>But unlike anything else in life, after you exchange sometimg for your "money" it doesn't arbitrarily become worthless after a certain (especially such a short) amount of time.I'm concerned that words are being put into my mouth here. I have not said many of the things that I have been accused.Regarding your statement above, yes, things do lose value over time. However, this is not relevant to the matter at hand. Please explain to me how the armor you now have is now worthless. I never said it was just as good as the new armor; but the current BG armor that you are wearing now is far closer to the new BG armor than it is to being no armor at all. You are still able to wear and use it and gain the benefits of it. Therefore it is not wothless.The second part of your qoute is simply untrue. No one is upset that T1 BG armor didn't magically turn into T2 armor, which is what you are implying and that is incorrect. The problem lies in the fact that our initial investment is now worthless. No one is asking for a free upgrade, they are asking simply for a means to get some sort of return on the initial armor. A trade-in, an upgrade system, anything.I'll say it again, your initial investment is not worthless. Had they removed your armor with this patch and left you with nothing, then it'd be worthless. Your armor has not changed. You paid the price for something and you got exactly what you paid for. This would be a valid arguement if they changed the armor after you had bought it (as in the jewelry resists change).And I never said that anyone was asking for a "free upgrade". I do completely understand your desire to get something back for your 'initial investment'. But, the truth is, you already got something back for your investment--you got to wear your armor and you still have it. An illustration: When you buy a car, you buy a car because you need something to drive you around. You bought a car (BG armor) because you needed to get from home to work and back (protect you from damage and give you bonuses). That's what you got for your investment: the utility of the thing. The fact that you get something--if anything--back when you trade it in is another matter altogether. If your main objective was return on investment, you wouldn't have bought a large asset that depreciates--you would have instead invested in mutual funds or commodities. You bought the armor because you didn't want to fight in BGs in no-toughness gear and that's exactly what you got (and still get) for your tokens.I merely said that if you are enjoying doing BGs for what they are, then I do not see any issue that you have no "upgrade path" to redeem old armor to give you a discount on new armor. If you are going to continue to run BGs, then you'll get the new armor along the way.Please do keep in mind that I do not find it unreasonable in any way that you are requesting a "trade-in system". I simply do not understand the sentiments expressed in this thread that suggest that not having one is untolerable or a "kick in the teeth", or that the new marginally-better armor makes the armor you have right now and are still able to 100% use for as long as you'd like somehow "worthless".<cite>Ryka@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am at a loss at those who said they "wasted" their tokens on the original BG armor. Players saw fabled gear they wanted on the merchants and they traded their tokens for it. To the largest extent, players were happy with their new armor. Like anything else you'd buy in life, you got something in return for your "money".Some of these players only became unhappy because, upon launch of GU56, they didn't automatically have the best anymore. There was something out there they didn't have. Worse yet, others who had not bought the original BG armor could have this new armor without having to first get the old set. I imagine that these players are feeling as if their accomplishments should be rewarded by forcing everyone else to go through the same progression they did. This is understandable to a point. It is only natural that, if we work for something, we do not want others to have it unless they work for it as well.However, here is the problem: as Umub alluded to, the purpose of the BG system is not to award players gear. Really. The purpose of BGs is to allow players to participate in team-oriented PvP activities. The gear is--bad pun-- an accessory to the BG system.Now, I expect that someone may retort with "Well, you could say the same thing about PvE raid content: the purpose is to allow you to participate in team-oriented PvE activities and we use a progressive gear trade-in system for that." However, there is a progression to raid content. You need better gear to go after the next target, rinse and repeat. And there is no progression in BGs. The players you fight tomorrow aren't necessarily better-skilled or better-geared than the ones you fought today. Over time, sure, your potential opponents will, on average, become better-skilled and better-geared the more they do BGs; but, also, over time so will you.So, if you enjoy doing BGs, then what is the big deal that you "have to do" more of them in order to continue having the top BG gear? Is it that large a source of stress and apprehension that you can't go more than 2 days before once again having the best of the best of something? And let's be honest: the Challenger series of BG armor isn't head and shoulders better than the initial BG armor. Is it better? Sure it is! But, seriously now, how many BG matches will really be affected by the small differences between the two sets of gear? Will players in the original armor really be unable to stand against those wearing the new armor? PvP is all about responding quickly to what is happening around you. Are these players really willing to state that their skills are less a factor in determining the outcome of a match then the small difference between these gear sets?Therefore, if you're just doing BGs to "get your armor" and you are not enjoying them for what they are, then stop causing yourself the needless stress of "grinding" and find something else to do that will enable you to have fun. If you're doing BGs for the purpose of having competitive team PvP fun, then "slaving" or "grinding" tokens really is a non-issue.</blockquote></blockquote>

Morgain

05-27-2010, 11:17 PM

I agree..there need to be an upgrade option.... allow some credit for the work invested to date!Please fix this SOE

Dekedar

05-28-2010, 12:31 AM

You're right, the armor isn't worthless yet, but once I get the new set it will be nothing more than HIGHLY overpriced appearence armor. Sit in my bank and rot, or I'll get 1 pp or whatever as vendor trash. That's why I want a trade-in option.

Darlordofthesith8969

05-28-2010, 01:48 AM

<cite>EQer wrote:</cite><blockquote>I was really surprised there was no token upgrade options. I have half a set of gear that took alot of effort to obtain that was made obsolete way too quickly. A big disappointment.</blockquote>I think a lot of us are feeling the pain here but I doubt SOE will do anything about it which is rather disappointing, I farmed for a full 2 weeks when I came back to the game to get the original set of BG armour, I had all the BG chain set before there was any mention of the new stuff, and now like most everyone else I have to suffer through it all again nice one SOE love ur style, hopefully SWTOR will have a release date soon<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />The win would have been as others have mentioned make it like the TSO T1 and T2 armour have the T1 set and have the choice to upgrade to T2 BG armour with X amount of 1 token and Y amount of the other token, problem sorted have a nice day. If enough people add to this thread maybe they might do something about it.

Davngr1

05-28-2010, 03:06 AM

make the old gear tradeable or flat out replace it. leaving it as an option to buy is stupid.. WHO is going to buy an out dated item when they can pay 5 more tokens and get one that's better? the old gear should cost half of what the new (blue adorn) gear cost AND you should have the option to trade it in. also should allow the lower tier gear to be turned in for partial credit to encourage gearing lower level characters. why should someone who just started gearing up right now get MUCH better gear then my all ready geared up characters? it's not fair, it's not smart and it's NOT FUN. fun is what i pay my monthly subscription for.

Corydonn

05-28-2010, 03:59 AM

If you didn't have enough tokens to buy the full set of armor when the GU came out... You haven't been playing enough BGs and it isn't going to kill you to play to get upgrades.

Trawe

05-28-2010, 05:37 AM

Davngr1

05-28-2010, 07:07 AM

<cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you didn't have enough tokens to buy the full set of armor when the GU came out... You haven't been playing enough BGs and it isn't going to kill you to play to get upgrades.</blockquote>there are things called "alts" once i equip one chracter i move on to the next it's ridiculous for me to have to go back and RE-OUTFIT characters i OUTFITTED 2 months ago! you need to allow ALL T9 armor to use blue adorns or at the very least give trade in value to it. i play this game more then the average player and more then 50% of my play time has been spent in BG since it's launch. i end up "lfg" for hours at a time and make use of the time by hoping on BG's. i don't have enough tokens to regear the ALL READY geard characters AND i dont even have enough tokens to get the NEW GEAR for my UN GEARD characters. this is dumb, the gear came out with the EXPAC you CAN NOT make it obsolete with out creating some new challenge or offering some type of trade in value.edit. to further highlight how dumb this is, let me ask one question. who will EVER buy the old armor again? who will not just save up the extra 10 tokens to get the challenger set? NO ONE you might as well just destroyed the armor and what few tokens i have left from all my play time before this update while you're at it!

gundali

05-28-2010, 08:30 AM

I agree that we should be able to sell previous armour and other items back to the vendor for a percentage of tokens refund.From my viewpoint of the EU servers, I'd like to hang onto as many casual players as possible. Although once we patch with the US servers it'll change, I still feel that with our time differences we won't be running Smugglers Den every moment of our game day.It seems a juxtaposition that whilst the game is reported to be moving towards a more casual playstyle that BG remains an unrelenting and unaplogetic treadmill. I feel that a large number of casual players have decided that they cannot commit enough time to BG to be effective through each season, so this decision to retain players through 'seasons' has backfired.

lollipop

05-28-2010, 02:14 PM

The dev's dont care what we want in this regard. They have already came out and said it. basicly f us. SO not much point in crying on the forums anymore. If you want to show them how you feel. Cancel your acct.

Davngr1

05-28-2010, 06:19 PM

<cite>lollipop wrote:</cite><blockquote>The dev's dont care what we want in this regard. They have already came out and said it. basicly f us. SO not much point in crying on the forums anymore. If you want to show them how you feel. Cancel your acct.</blockquote>i'm not crying. i think it's pretty clear that im telling dev's they are dumb for putting TWO sets of lvl 90 gear BG gear, one being completely useless!

Stubbswick

05-28-2010, 08:45 PM

It wasn't useless for the last two months. It's not useless now. It's not as good as the other armor, but it's still much better than any other PvP gear available to PvE'ers (I can't speak for PvP'ers). You'll get a lot further in BG if you're wearing that gear than if you're just wearing mastercraft of PvE legendary stuff.

Davngr1

05-29-2010, 03:04 AM

<cite>Stubbswick wrote:</cite><blockquote>It wasn't useless for the last two months. It's not useless now. It's not as good as the other armor, but it's still much better than any other PvP gear available to PvE'ers (I can't speak for PvP'ers). You'll get a lot further in BG if you're wearing that gear than if you're just wearing mastercraft of PvE legendary stuff.</blockquote>try using your brain for just a second! two sets of lvl 90 gear one cost 10 more tokens then the other. who is going to buy the lesser the one? NO ONE! the least you could do is make one far more defensive or something like that. srsly that gear serves NO PURPOSE just delete it along with the rest of the tokens pre-lu 56. and there the lvl 90 Bg's gear 1.0 will sit UNUSED. so what will you decided to break later?

Eritius

05-29-2010, 03:11 AM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Stubbswick wrote:</cite><blockquote>It wasn't useless for the last two months. It's not useless now. It's not as good as the other armor, but it's still much better than any other PvP gear available to PvE'ers (I can't speak for PvP'ers). You'll get a lot further in BG if you're wearing that gear than if you're just wearing mastercraft of PvE legendary stuff.</blockquote>try using your brain for just a second! two sets of lvl 90 gear one cost 10 more tokens then the other. who is going to buy the lesser the one? NO ONE! the least you could do is make one far more defensive or something like that. srsly that gear serves NO PURPOSE just delete it along with the rest of the tokens pre-lu 56. and there the lvl 90 Bg's gear 1.0 will sit UNUSED. so what will you decided to break later? </blockquote>So it will do you no good against T9 MC armored opponents as you try to get the new T2 BG armor?

Davngr1

05-29-2010, 03:25 AM

<cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Stubbswick wrote:</cite><blockquote>It wasn't useless for the last two months. It's not useless now. It's not as good as the other armor, but it's still much better than any other PvP gear available to PvE'ers (I can't speak for PvP'ers). You'll get a lot further in BG if you're wearing that gear than if you're just wearing mastercraft of PvE legendary stuff.</blockquote>try using your brain for just a second! two sets of lvl 90 gear one cost 10 more tokens then the other. who is going to buy the lesser the one? NO ONE! the least you could do is make one far more defensive or something like that. srsly that gear serves NO PURPOSE just delete it along with the rest of the tokens pre-lu 56. and there the lvl 90 Bg's gear 1.0 will sit UNUSED. so what will you decided to break later? </blockquote>So it will do you no good against T9 MC armored opponents as you try to get the new T2 BG armor?</blockquote>knock, knock anyone home? it will do no good from THIS DAY ON! it's DEAD armor DEAD like TSO's shard gear! DEAD! but last expacs shard gear is expected since there is a NEW EXPAC! was LU 56 a NEW expac? no.. yet they replaced the gear? there is no reason to have T1 and T2 BG gear since it's the SAME CONTENT there isin't any greater DIFFICULTY! dev's basicly said: hey we want to force all the loyal BG's players to get ALL new armor and indirectly reward ANYONE who has never purchased ANY armor till this point.edit. for the really, really slow people: YOU will have no reason to BUY the T1 gear now that the T2 gear is out BECAUSE it only cost TEN more tokens. why WASTE 45 tokens when you can save up another ten tokens and get the BETTER gear for MINIMAL effort?now i'm sure there are dumb people out there that will buy the T1 before the T2 but those people can't figure out what the new effects do anyways.

Eritius

05-29-2010, 02:14 PM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Stubbswick wrote:</cite><blockquote>It wasn't useless for the last two months. It's not useless now. It's not as good as the other armor, but it's still much better than any other PvP gear available to PvE'ers (I can't speak for PvP'ers). You'll get a lot further in BG if you're wearing that gear than if you're just wearing mastercraft of PvE legendary stuff.</blockquote>try using your brain for just a second! two sets of lvl 90 gear one cost 10 more tokens then the other. who is going to buy the lesser the one? NO ONE! the least you could do is make one far more defensive or something like that. srsly that gear serves NO PURPOSE just delete it along with the rest of the tokens pre-lu 56. and there the lvl 90 Bg's gear 1.0 will sit UNUSED. so what will you decided to break later? </blockquote>So it will do you no good against T9 MC armored opponents as you try to get the new T2 BG armor?</blockquote>knock, knock anyone home? it will do no good from THIS DAY ON! it's DEAD armor DEAD like TSO's shard gear! DEAD! but last expacs shard gear is expected since there is a NEW EXPAC! was LU 56 a NEW expac? no.. yet they replaced the gear? there is no reason to have T1 and T2 BG gear since it's the SAME CONTENT there isin't any greater DIFFICULTY! dev's basicly said: hey we want to force all the loyal BG's players to get ALL new armor and indirectly reward ANYONE who has never purchased ANY armor till this point.edit. for the really, really slow people: YOU will have no reason to BUY the T1 gear now that the T2 gear is out BECAUSE it only cost TEN more tokens. why WASTE 45 tokens when you can save up another ten tokens and get the BETTER gear for MINIMAL effort?now i'm sure there are dumb people out there that will buy the T1 before the T2 but those people can't figure out what the new effects do anyways.</blockquote>Then don't buy it smart guy.Its like when a player gets level 22 MC gear they aren't going to New Halas and doing the quests and going, "Oh this armor is useless, I wasted my time, I should be able to turn it in for better gear then what I came here for!"Are you seriously complaining that there is armor on a vender somewhere that you don't need or want? I'd hate to see your reaction when you go to a city and see armor on venders with no stats on it.New gear every GU isn't a new thing in the MMO industry. EQ2 finally caught on and are providing us stuff to work for yet you all STILL complain. I'd even imagine if they reverted it you all would just login alts and complain about that.As for level 90s picking the wrong gear. Well if they do that then they deserve what they get. Anyone thats 90 should know what is better for them by looking at the stats. Actually anyone who is 60 should know.Let me see if I can break this down for you all so you can either cancel your sub now or deal with it. When the next GU hits, the gear will be upgraded again. If this is unacceptable, I highly recommend not playing a progression based MMO. They all do this now. Pick your flavor: You want Norrath, play EQ2, Azeroth, play WoW, Middle Earth, play LOTRO, ect. If you don't want to play a progression MMO, try Second Life or whatever, google for it, I've done enough work for you already.Complaining about it won't help, for each of you that whine about it, there's 10 people ingame liking it. I represent those 10. And SOE knows this, even if you think they don't.

Dekedar

05-29-2010, 03:52 PM

I assume the last poster didn't spend the countless hours that many of us did to get the T1 bg armor. Don't claim you did either, because there is literally no way you could invest so many hours of time to have all that work become worthless and pretend to be satisfied.To the poster before that, nice petition.

Corydonn

05-29-2010, 04:07 PM

<cite>Gunthore@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>I assume the last poster didn't spend the countless hours that many of us did to get the T1 bg armor. Don't claim you did either, because there is literally no way you could invest so many hours of time to have all that work become worthless and pretend to be satisfied.To the poster before that, nice petition.</blockquote>So you spend more hours and get the T2 armor, It's that simple.

Dekedar

05-29-2010, 05:01 PM

I feel you are missing the entire point of this thread. I doubt you even read the OP. I understand it's a constant grind, everyone does. All that is being requested is a means to upgrade our armor using additional tokens plus the armor we already earned so we can get the new armor at a REDUCED price. Not free, just some form of getting any type of return out of the original armor. That is not in any an unfair or unjustified request. Anyone who says otherwise is completely devoid of logical reasoning.Another, equally fair, option would be to allow the sale of the armor back to the vendor for a % return on the tokens. Note: at the original price bought, not the current price listed. Currently you cannot sell your armor back to the vendor you bought it from and other vendors only offer you a little over 1 pp.I feel like the time I put into getting this armor has been reduced to a little over 1pp. That's what hurts here, no one would spend countless hours for 1 pp.

Davngr1

05-29-2010, 05:22 PM

<cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gunthore@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>I assume the last poster didn't spend the countless hours that many of us did to get the T1 bg armor. Don't claim you did either, because there is literally no way you could invest so many hours of time to have all that work become worthless and pretend to be satisfied.To the poster before that, nice petition.</blockquote>So you spend more hours and get the T2 armor, It's that simple.</blockquote>why should i have to? <cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Stubbswick wrote:</cite><blockquote>It wasn't useless for the last two months. It's not useless now. It's not as good as the other armor, but it's still much better than any other PvP gear available to PvE'ers (I can't speak for PvP'ers). You'll get a lot further in BG if you're wearing that gear than if you're just wearing mastercraft of PvE legendary stuff.</blockquote>try using your brain for just a second! two sets of lvl 90 gear one cost 10 more tokens then the other. who is going to buy the lesser the one? NO ONE! the least you could do is make one far more defensive or something like that. srsly that gear serves NO PURPOSE just delete it along with the rest of the tokens pre-lu 56. and there the lvl 90 Bg's gear 1.0 will sit UNUSED. so what will you decided to break later? </blockquote>So it will do you no good against T9 MC armored opponents as you try to get the new T2 BG armor?</blockquote>knock, knock anyone home? it will do no good from THIS DAY ON! it's DEAD armor DEAD like TSO's shard gear! DEAD! but last expacs shard gear is expected since there is a NEW EXPAC! was LU 56 a NEW expac? no.. yet they replaced the gear? there is no reason to have T1 and T2 BG gear since it's the SAME CONTENT there isin't any greater DIFFICULTY! dev's basicly said: hey we want to force all the loyal BG's players to get ALL new armor and indirectly reward ANYONE who has never purchased ANY armor till this point.edit. for the really, really slow people: YOU will have no reason to BUY the T1 gear now that the T2 gear is out BECAUSE it only cost TEN more tokens. why WASTE 45 tokens when you can save up another ten tokens and get the BETTER gear for MINIMAL effort?now i'm sure there are dumb people out there that will buy the T1 before the T2 but those people can't figure out what the new effects do anyways.</blockquote>Then don't buy it smart guy.Its like when a player gets level 22 MC gear they aren't going to New Halas and doing the quests and going, "Oh this armor is useless, I wasted my time, I should be able to turn it in for better gear then what I came here for!"Are you seriously complaining that there is armor on a vender somewhere that you don't need or want? I'd hate to see your reaction when you go to a city and see armor on venders with no stats on it.New gear every GU isn't a new thing in the MMO industry. EQ2 finally caught on and are providing us stuff to work for yet you all STILL complain. I'd even imagine if they reverted it you all would just login alts and complain about that.As for level 90s picking the wrong gear. Well if they do that then they deserve what they get. Anyone thats 90 should know what is better for them by looking at the stats. Actually anyone who is 60 should know.Let me see if I can break this down for you all so you can either cancel your sub now or deal with it. When the next GU hits, the gear will be upgraded again. If this is unacceptable, I highly recommend not playing a progression based MMO. They all do this now. Pick your flavor: You want Norrath, play EQ2, Azeroth, play WoW, Middle Earth, play LOTRO, ect. If you don't want to play a progression MMO, try Second Life or whatever, google for it, I've done enough work for you already.Complaining about it won't help, for each of you that whine about it, there's 10 people ingame liking it. I represent those 10. And SOE knows this, even if you think they don't.</blockquote> lol you really think they will come out with new gear every GU? 3 months isin't enough time to gather enough tokens to outfit all my alts PERIOD so this is about the dimmest idea both financially and entertainment wise. alts is what has kept this game alive THIS long, it's what keeps people playing. you level your first character, you make mistakes, you learn. then you start another character and help him with what you have gained from your first character and so on and so forth. this change IF it becomes the norm will DESTROY what keeps this game ALIVE. no one will want to work on fun alts if it will mean that their main will FALL BEHIND do to CLOSE MINDED gear implementation. you and the 10 people (yes just ten people) that think this is a good idea are in the minority sir and the fact that you say:<cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>New gear every GU isn't a new thing in the MMO industry. EQ2 finally caught on</blockquote> clearly means that it's YOU should go play the other MMO's if you don't like how people expect to be treated in this one! YES! i want to be able to get most, if not all my alts a good progression run.THIS practice DOES NOT allow this because it was poorly implemented. some type of trade in credit should be offered for ALL armor that is WORKED for. having two sets (maybe more to come?) of level 90 gear is dumb. specially since the game is basically being explained to every one step by step at every turn? make up your mind.. or will the new "tips" while zoning going to read: " keep in mind that there is two sets of armor in BG's and only one is worth buying the other is just there because we don't care about tiding off loose ends!"

Dekedar

05-29-2010, 06:29 PM

Dav, it's very clear to me you don't even grasp the situation at hand. Do me a favor and stop posting in this thread.

Eritius

05-29-2010, 06:43 PM

<cite>Gunthore@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dav, it's very clear to me you don't even grasp the situation at hand. Do me a favor and stop posting in this thread.</blockquote>Yeah I've never seen anyone get that riled up over new gear being available. He'd probably kick a small animal if you gave him a sportscar, or at least a means of obtaining one, even if he could simply turn the offer down.No I didn't get all the pieces of the T1, but even if I did I would just shrug it off. The same situation happened to me in WoW. I got a whole brand new set of PVP armor and they released another tier about 2 weeks later. I didn't care there. Why would I care here? At least here you can gear by just playing in BGs (win or lose), in WoW you can't (talking latest arena tier, not honor buy).If they implemented the latest Tier of BG gear only available to premade teams based on ratings, the QQ on these forums would literally shut the forums down. EQ2 PVPers aren't ready to stomach that style of competitive gameplay.Be glad you got the diet coke version that lets you upgrade in the way that it does.

Davngr1

05-29-2010, 07:00 PM

<cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gunthore@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dav, it's very clear to me you don't even grasp the situation at hand. Do me a favor and stop posting in this thread.</blockquote>Yeah I've never seen anyone get that riled up over new gear being available. He'd probably kick a small animal if you gave him a sportscar, or at least a means of obtaining one, even if he could simply turn the offer down.No I didn't get all the pieces of the T1, but even if I did I would just shrug it off. The same situation happened to me in WoW. I got a whole brand new set of PVP armor and they released another tier about 2 weeks later. I didn't care there. Why would I care here? At least here you can gear by just playing in BGs (win or lose), in WoW you can't (talking latest arena tier, not honor buy).If they implemented the latest Tier of BG gear only available to premade teams based on ratings, the QQ on these forums would literally shut the forums down. EQ2 PVPers aren't ready to stomach that style of competitive gameplay.Be glad you got the diet coke version that lets you upgrade in the way that it does.</blockquote> actually if new gear had been added as a reward to new proggression it would make sense. adding new gear just to replace old gear instead of just upgrading current gear is stupid. since the old gear will NOT be purchased EVER AGAIN from this point on. there was no level cap change and no new expansion launch there effectively was no reason to implement this new gear other then the new blue adorns. <cite>Gunthore@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dav, it's very clear to me you don't even grasp the situation at hand. Do me a favor and stop posting in this thread.</blockquote> you clearly have a hard time understanding my post and that's fine i'm not very user friendly but if you care enough and ask nicely i will be sure to explain any given portion of any of my post to you.

Crismorn

05-29-2010, 07:30 PM

Gearing up alts requires you to play bg's twice as much, maybe you should pick one to gear out.

Davngr1

05-29-2010, 09:01 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Gearing up alts requires you to play bg's twice as much, maybe you should pick one to gear out.</blockquote> why should i have to? either way that's just one of the many reason why this change was poorly implemented.

Corydonn

05-29-2010, 09:28 PM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Gearing up alts requires you to play bg's twice as much, maybe you should pick one to gear out.</blockquote> why should i have to? either way that's just one of the many reason why this change was poorly implemented.</blockquote>I'm sorry you are so special to have more priveledges to not do as many BG's as the rest of us. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Crismorn

05-29-2010, 09:56 PM

Davngr1

05-29-2010, 10:52 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Gearing up alts requires you to play bg's twice as much, maybe you should pick one to gear out.</blockquote> why should i have to? either way that's just one of the many reason why this change was poorly implemented.</blockquote>Because 2 is more then 1.</blockquote> <cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Gearing up alts requires you to play bg's twice as much, maybe you should pick one to gear out.</blockquote> why should i have to? either way that's just one of the many reason why this change was poorly implemented.</blockquote>I'm sorry you are so special to have more priveledges to not do as many BG's as the rest of us. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>i don't know what to say.. uhmm, how to explain? i'm saying that i was working on my alts and now have to spend more tokens on my already geard main because of this. further more this IS unfair EVEN IF all i had was my main to worry about. is that clear enough? or have i lost more people do to my zinging around with out explaining every single little thing to the point were even a 2 year old child will understand?

Crismorn

05-29-2010, 11:04 PM

I played the content enough to buy all the season 1 gear I wanted and the season 2 gear.Apparently you did not.

Davngr1

05-29-2010, 11:13 PM

and your point? i didn't live in BG for the last two months, that does not justify this implementation. by "if it does not affect me" logic anyone who does not play an inquis could argue that it deserves an unfair nerf because it does not affect them. is that really a valid point?

Eritius

05-30-2010, 03:39 AM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>and your point? i didn't live in BG for the last two months, that does not justify this implementation. by "if it does not affect me" logic anyone who does not play an inquis could argue that it deserves an unfair nerf because it does not affect them. is that really a valid point?</blockquote>He did BGs to get BG gear to use in BGs, thats kind of the point.Now this is turning into a nerf Inquisitor topic? I was going to say apples and oranges but this isn't even a fruit! Either way, there's one person who isn't ticked off about getting both sets and is quite content. That sort of invalidates the argument anyway. Regardless of class he did enough BGs to get both. I have a friend of mine that plays a Brigand and has both sets (hopefully this won't turn into a nerf brigand thread too). The only complaint he had was the look of the new gear compared to the old one, but he solved that with the appearance slot.Dav I seriously have no idea why you are bothering to post. If you don't want the gear, don't get the gear. That would be like me complaining that PVP servers exist because I don't want to play on them. Heck they could release upgraded gear every week and it wouldn't bother me. I'd just upgrade a piece each week and cycle through the slots lol.

Davngr1

05-30-2010, 05:30 AM

<cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>and your point? i didn't live in BG for the last two months, that does not justify this implementation. by "if it does not affect me" logic anyone who does not play an inquis could argue that it deserves an unfair nerf because it does not affect them. is that really a valid point?</blockquote>He did BGs to get BG gear to use in BGs, thats kind of the point.Now this is turning into a nerf Inquisitor topic? I was going to say apples and oranges but this isn't even a fruit! Either way, there's one person who isn't ticked off about getting both sets and is quite content. That sort of invalidates the argument anyway. Regardless of class he did enough BGs to get both. I have a friend of mine that plays a Brigand and has both sets (hopefully this won't turn into a nerf brigand thread too). The only complaint he had was the look of the new gear compared to the old one, but he solved that with the appearance slot.Dav I seriously have no idea why you are bothering to post. If you don't want the gear, don't get the gear. That would be like me complaining that PVP servers exist because I don't want to play on them. Heck they could release upgraded gear every week and it wouldn't bother me. I'd just upgrade a piece each week and cycle through the slots lol.</blockquote>funny you mention appels and oranges since you two seem to be talking about anything exept the ACTUAL TOPIC at hand. there is NOTHING on anyone of my post to lead ANYONE to belive that i dont like doing bg's. the very fact that you even mention that speaks volumes of your reasons for posting here. FACT- there are TWO sets of level 90 bg's gear FACT - NO ONE will spend tokens on the T1 set of BG's gear that ME and many others are stuck with FACT - there is ZERO proggression needed to aquire the new T2 bg's gear all you need is 10 more tokens then before. that is the topic here. stop talking about non sense, NO ONE posting here has any issues with, waht people have a problem is with having their hard earned gear become useless 2 months after buying it. THERE IS NO reason for the SECOND set of BG's gear. why is it there?

Alenna

05-30-2010, 11:38 AM

<cite>Stubbswick wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>snowzeh wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't play Wow.I play Eq2. I would not have spent my BG tokens on gear that would be obsolete in a month,had I known about it.</blockquote>It's been on test for almost a month. There have been ongoing discussions about it on the forums.I'm guessing part of what motivates the decision is to keep people playing Battlegrounds. The people who really care about Battlegrounds will be happy to keep playing to get the better armor (and in the meantime, they'll already have their old armor which is pretty beefy). The people who just want it for appearances, or for fabled-quality gear outside of Battlegrounds... well they're going to have to suck it up and go back to grinding Battlegrounds.<cite>Gunthore@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Maybe you aren't aware of this, but there are only 2 PvP servers and there are MANY more PvE servers. Also, that dev response doesn't address this issue. He's just stating T1 BG armor doesn't have blue adorns, I know that, the question is why can't we have an upgrade system or a buy back where we get some tokens in return, but what makes most sense is an upgrade system because we're already used to it since TSO and shard armor.</blockquote>TSO shard gear had a whole upgrade system, but I think that's been pretty much the only expansion that has. The SF legendary gear you buy in Paineel can't be upgraded in Moonfield - if you want more, you gotta buy it. There's only a few pieces of SF raid gear that can be upgraded, and if you get a new piece of raid armor from say hardmode, you don't get to upgrade adorns and such.Some people loved the TSO armor system, some people hated it. But based on the direction armor has gone in SF, I don't think you can argue that upgrading armor sets is the "norm" of EQ2. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, I think they went back and changed TSO armor to not require upgrades (at least WoE stuff).</blockquote>answering the bolded part but folks know upfront that there is better armor so they can save thier Marks to get it. with BGs well the 2nd better set just came out so if as with SF mark geer they'd have know of better gear they would have saved thier tokens but now they have to grind up from scratch again. so you are comparing apples and oranges here.

Crismorn

05-30-2010, 11:49 AM

But theres new gear in 2 more months again and then 2 months after that.With that kind of mentality you dont have to worry about gear cause you will never have to buy it.

malificent26

05-30-2010, 02:20 PM

<cite>Stubbswick wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>malificent26 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't give a damned about grinding for the newest armor, I care that's it's been TWO MONTHS!! WHEN has there been a change in armor like this in TWO MONTHS? You say it's PVP, well a lot of the folks playing are PVE and it's NOT like that.</blockquote>Two new raid zones just came out with brand new loot, as well as brand new instance loot. As well as new fabled items on merchants. I spent some raid tokens on one or two jewelry pieces to fill a few holes. Now there's weapons for sale that I could have spent those tokens on... should I get upset and demand for a way to sell my jewelry back (even though it's served a purpose for the last week or two?) All this happened in the same timeframe you're talking about. So yeah... it is that way for PvE as well.Also, I was the one who brought up that it was on Test. That's fair, a lot of people don't follow stuff that happens on Test. But I remember Brenlo talking about Battlegrounds in a senior producer letter, basically saying there was going to be gear sets and progression. ***I GOTTA LOOK FOR PRODUCERS LETTERS!?!? are you kidding me? New pieces added is not the same as a complete upgrade to the BRAND NEW piece of equipment that you just spent all your tokens on, that has new adornements and stats... PLEASE... WITHIN APPROX TWO MONTHS and as far as BRENLO was discussing!?!? was it IN GAME?!??! I expect to get your information while logging in or IN GAME FROM SONY... WHERE IS THE NEW BATTLEGROUND THEN!?!?! I don't test, let them test their own game, I already police it for them. I DON'T read all the articles and peripheral crap out there... I PLAY THE GAME... How long does it take to get new HOLIDAY quests!?!? do some of your upgrading there SONY! </blockquote>

Dekedar

05-30-2010, 02:21 PM

I think the best option would just to be able to get a return on the gear when selling back to merchants.It is inevitble that I get screwed here. If it stays as is I've already been screwed. Since I took tokens from my alts that play BG to buy my main's gear they get screwed if an upgrade system is implemented. It is not so wrong to ask for this.

Stubbswick

05-30-2010, 03:11 PM

<cite>Alenna@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Stubbswick wrote:</cite><blockquote>TSO shard gear had a whole upgrade system, but I think that's been pretty much the only expansion that has. The SF legendary gear you buy in Paineel can't be upgraded in Moonfield - if you want more, you gotta buy it. There's only a few pieces of SF raid gear that can be upgraded, and if you get a new piece of raid armor from say hardmode, you don't get to upgrade adorns and such.Some people loved the TSO armor system, some people hated it. But based on the direction armor has gone in SF, I don't think you can argue that upgrading armor sets is the "norm" of EQ2. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, I think they went back and changed TSO armor to not require upgrades (at least WoE stuff).</blockquote>answering the bolded part but folks know upfront that there is better armor so they can save thier Marks to get it. with BGs well the 2nd better set just came out so if as with SF mark geer they'd have know of better gear they would have saved thier tokens but now they have to grind up from scratch again. so you are comparing apples and oranges here.</blockquote>So why did SoE put it in the game? That's kind of a rhetorical question, because honestly I don't know the answer. But the point is it's there. Maybe some people want it for appearance. Maybe some people want to buy legendary gear so they don't die as much in SF instances, and can therefore do harder instances and get more marks. It's not apples to oranges when someone else tried to argue that progression of armor through upgrading is already part of the game (which, aside from TSO, it's not). That was my only point with that example.<cite>malificent26 wrote:</cite><blockquote> ***I GOTTA LOOK FOR PRODUCERS LETTERS!?!? are you kidding me? New pieces added is not the same as a complete upgrade to the BRAND NEW piece of equipment that you just spent all your tokens on, that has new adornements and stats... PLEASE... WITHIN APPROX TWO MONTHS and as far as BRENLO was discussing!?!? was it IN GAME?!??! I expect to get your information while logging in or IN GAME FROM SONY... WHERE IS THE NEW BATTLEGROUND THEN!?!?! I don't test, let them test their own game, I already police it for them. I DON'T read all the articles and peripheral crap out there... I PLAY THE GAME... How long does it take to get new HOLIDAY quests!?!? do some of your upgrading there SONY!</blockquote>You don't have to do anything. You don't have to read any update notes, or test update notes, or discussions with devs about upcoming changes to the game. You don't have to read senior producers letters. But those things are the best communication you're going to get out of the devs as far as what changes are on the way. So if you don't want to feel like you're getting "screwed" by a change you weren't prepared for, you may want to keep an eye on these things in the future.

Davngr1

05-30-2010, 03:14 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>But theres new gear in 2 more months again and then 2 months after that.With that kind of mentality you dont have to worry about gear cause you will never have to buy it.</blockquote> ok at first i just thought it was troll talk but now im starting to wonder. did a dev/brenlo say that they would add completely new gear every 2 months? because that would be dumb if the current system stays as is. it's impossible to gear up my characters at rate even if i just gear up one per account/my favorites. dev's NEED to make adjustments for alts. alts are important to this game financially and entertainment wise or else who's going to use your new starting city(halas)? who's going to buy your RAF accounts? you made a mistake and the player base is not pleased, please fix this issue quickly and restore our good faith in this game. treating people unfairly will not keep this game fun, EQ2 is not a "hard core" game like EQ was. it was developed to give the "casual" player just as much of a chance to progress as the "hard core" player. that's why the game has such core mechanics as vitality and research assistants. this was not thought out with those principles in mind, please make it right.

Davngr1

05-30-2010, 03:25 PM

<cite>Stubbswick wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Alenna@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Stubbswick wrote:</cite><blockquote>TSO shard gear had a whole upgrade system, but I think that's been pretty much the only expansion that has. The SF legendary gear you buy in Paineel can't be upgraded in Moonfield - if you want more, you gotta buy it. There's only a few pieces of SF raid gear that can be upgraded, and if you get a new piece of raid armor from say hardmode, you don't get to upgrade adorns and such.Some people loved the TSO armor system, some people hated it. But based on the direction armor has gone in SF, I don't think you can argue that upgrading armor sets is the "norm" of EQ2. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, I think they went back and changed TSO armor to not require upgrades (at least WoE stuff).</blockquote>answering the bolded part but folks know upfront that there is better armor so they can save thier Marks to get it. with BGs well the 2nd better set just came out so if as with SF mark geer they'd have know of better gear they would have saved thier tokens but now they have to grind up from scratch again. so you are comparing apples and oranges here.</blockquote>So why did SoE put it in the game? That's kind of a rhetorical question, because honestly I don't know the answer. But the point is it's there. Maybe some people want it for appearance. Maybe some people want to buy legendary gear so they don't die as much in SF instances, and can therefore do harder instances and get more marks. It's not apples to oranges when someone else tried to argue that progression of armor through upgrading is already part of the game (which, aside from TSO, it's not). That was my only point with that example.<cite>malificent26 wrote:</cite><blockquote> ***I GOTTA LOOK FOR PRODUCERS LETTERS!?!? are you kidding me? New pieces added is not the same as a complete upgrade to the BRAND NEW piece of equipment that you just spent all your tokens on, that has new adornements and stats... PLEASE... WITHIN APPROX TWO MONTHS and as far as BRENLO was discussing!?!? was it IN GAME?!??! I expect to get your information while logging in or IN GAME FROM SONY... WHERE IS THE NEW BATTLEGROUND THEN!?!?! I don't test, let them test their own game, I already police it for them. I DON'T read all the articles and peripheral crap out there... I PLAY THE GAME... How long does it take to get new HOLIDAY quests!?!? do some of your upgrading there SONY!</blockquote>You don't have to do anything. You don't have to read any update notes, or test update notes, or discussions with devs about upcoming changes to the game. You don't have to read senior producers letters. But those things are the best communication you're going to get out of the devs as far as what changes are on the way. So if you don't want to feel like you're getting "screwed" by a change you weren't prepared for, you may want to keep an eye on these things in the future.</blockquote>look dude, you need to stop trying to explain the dev's mistake by using redundant arguments that pivot on their mistake ie:<cite>Stubbswick wrote:</cite><blockquote>"the armor is there because the devs put it there and since it's there it is how it is now because ther devs said it was when they put the armor there!"</blockquote>that makes absolutely no sense! please keep posting by all means but make sure that you make valid arguments.

Stubbswick

05-30-2010, 05:26 PM

Please don't write something and make it look like I said it. Especially when you completely misunderstand what I'm saying.

Davngr1

05-30-2010, 08:16 PM

<cite>Stubbswick wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please don't write something and make it look like I said it. Especially when you completely misunderstand what I'm saying.</blockquote>so what were you saying?

Eritius

05-30-2010, 10:29 PM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>But theres new gear in 2 more months again and then 2 months after that.With that kind of mentality you dont have to worry about gear cause you will never have to buy it.</blockquote> ok at first i just thought it was troll talk but now im starting to wonder. did a dev/brenlo say that they would add completely new gear every 2 months? because that would be dumb if the current system stays as is. it's impossible to gear up my characters at rate even if i just gear up one per account/my favorites. dev's NEED to make adjustments for alts. alts are important to this game financially and entertainment wise or else who's going to use your new starting city(halas)? who's going to buy your RAF accounts? you made a mistake and the player base is not pleased, please fix this issue quickly and restore our good faith in this game. treating people unfairly will not keep this game fun, EQ2 is not a "hard core" game like EQ was. it was developed to give the "casual" player just as much of a chance to progress as the "hard core" player. that's why the game has such core mechanics as vitality and research assistants. this was not thought out with those principles in mind, please make it right.</blockquote>Hey Dav, my brigand friend geared up a paladin and an inquistor with both sets of BG gear. Why are your alts lagging behind?If you don't do BG's for the majority of your time in EQ2 its only right that the majority of your alts will not be geared for it.

Notsovilepriest

05-30-2010, 11:14 PM

<cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>But theres new gear in 2 more months again and then 2 months after that.With that kind of mentality you dont have to worry about gear cause you will never have to buy it.</blockquote> ok at first i just thought it was troll talk but now im starting to wonder. did a dev/brenlo say that they would add completely new gear every 2 months? because that would be dumb if the current system stays as is. it's impossible to gear up my characters at rate even if i just gear up one per account/my favorites. dev's NEED to make adjustments for alts. alts are important to this game financially and entertainment wise or else who's going to use your new starting city(halas)? who's going to buy your RAF accounts? you made a mistake and the player base is not pleased, please fix this issue quickly and restore our good faith in this game. treating people unfairly will not keep this game fun, EQ2 is not a "hard core" game like EQ was. it was developed to give the "casual" player just as much of a chance to progress as the "hard core" player. that's why the game has such core mechanics as vitality and research assistants. this was not thought out with those principles in mind, please make it right.</blockquote>Hey Dav, my brigand friend geared up a paladin and an inquistor with both sets of BG gear. Why are your alts lagging behind?If you don't do BG's for the majority of your time in EQ2 its only right that the majority of your alts will not be geared for it.</blockquote>Winner! This coming from myself, who has an extended account full of alts...

Vaelaen

05-30-2010, 11:43 PM

there should have been some more thought put into this i think...either the new gear should have been quite an upgrade over the past gear that would cost you your old gear piece plus more tokens, or they should have just made the old gear have the blue adorns. there shouldnt be 2 sets of level 90 gear without having a trade up system like the shard system.most of the people standing behind the system that soe chose either have enough tokens saved up to buy a full set of the new stuff with adornments, or they live on battlegrounds and will get the tokens in short order.soe needs to do 1 of 2 things..1) make getting the first set of gear a requirement of getting the second set of gear (ala shard armor system)2) or get rid of the new armor and just add the adornment slot to the old armor.the old BP was 50+50 tokens (or about 100 battlegrounds if you dont have any pvp gear heh), and the new one is 55+55... what the new one should have been is (old BP + 20+20 tokens)... or something along those lines, with the gear being more of an upgrade then the new stuff is now... maybe even throw in some set bonuses or some junk.there is nothing wrong with haveing new gear made available, but do it with a clear line of progression.

Eritius

05-31-2010, 01:07 AM

I'm not sure what the fuss is about. If we go by the assumption that new gear comes out every few months, then that should be plenty of time to gear a main and an alt each cycle and perhaps a second alt. If you play casually and I mean really casually, then you can still gear out a main and at the worst halfway gear out an alt.To be effective in the battleground, having half T1 and half T2 BG armor will still work. Thats assuming an alt of course. You can gear out a main first each round and place your alt on a cycle, gear half of the slots one round, then upgrade the T1 with the T3 when it comes out, then the T2 with T4.Its not perfect no. But thats sort of how it works with most PVE content. Most peeps don't get alts fully geared out, and by the time they do, another expansion more or less invalidates it. And thats assuming you get 23 other people on board to let you gear the alt out. Some guilds allow it, other guilds may not or may not have the capability.At least with BG gear the only limit is the individual. Its not a bad setup really. Was three months too quick? Maybe. However it was a new GU that got put out. Not a bad time to release a new tier, even if it was a little early. If GU's come out every 4 months then that should be plenty of time to gear up an alt or two in addition to a main.If you're trying to fully gear 7 characters (or 12 characters with SP) then I don't know what to tell you. Either play it hardcore and run 16 hours a day of BGs or sit down and stop complaining. Thats an excessive desire and the devs will never cater to that. Blizzard doesn't even do that. 2-3 alts I can see, and with the current system there's plenty of time for those that are devoted to it. But anymore then that and you're trying to have your cake and eat it plus everything else in the fridge.The good news is the current tokens work with the new gear. Imagine if the tokens changed each time?

Lethe5683

05-31-2010, 03:42 AM

A good solution for this would be allowing armor and jewelery to be sold back for half of the tokens it was purchased for, this would make it so people aren't getting "free upgrades" but would also keep people from feeling like all their work to get a new piece of armor was wasted instantly by a poorly timed upgrade.

Davngr1

05-31-2010, 04:00 AM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>But theres new gear in 2 more months again and then 2 months after that.With that kind of mentality you dont have to worry about gear cause you will never have to buy it.</blockquote> ok at first i just thought it was troll talk but now im starting to wonder. did a dev/brenlo say that they would add completely new gear every 2 months? because that would be dumb if the current system stays as is. it's impossible to gear up my characters at rate even if i just gear up one per account/my favorites. dev's NEED to make adjustments for alts. alts are important to this game financially and entertainment wise or else who's going to use your new starting city(halas)? who's going to buy your RAF accounts? you made a mistake and the player base is not pleased, please fix this issue quickly and restore our good faith in this game. treating people unfairly will not keep this game fun, EQ2 is not a "hard core" game like EQ was. it was developed to give the "casual" player just as much of a chance to progress as the "hard core" player. that's why the game has such core mechanics as vitality and research assistants. this was not thought out with those principles in mind, please make it right.</blockquote>Hey Dav, my brigand friend geared up a paladin and an inquistor with both sets of BG gear. Why are your alts lagging behind?If you don't do BG's for the majority of your time in EQ2 its only right that the majority of your alts will not be geared for it.</blockquote>Winner! This coming from myself, who has an extended account full of alts...</blockquote>Looser! unlike you two i can afford multiple accounts. thus i and others like me make SOE more money then you do! since the alts are on different accounts i can't just rip thru BG's on my geard main to get all my alts gear like your "friend". btw i'm no lagging behind anyone since i don't play to compete with people, i play for my own entertainment!

Notsovilepriest

05-31-2010, 04:06 AM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>But theres new gear in 2 more months again and then 2 months after that.With that kind of mentality you dont have to worry about gear cause you will never have to buy it.</blockquote> ok at first i just thought it was troll talk but now im starting to wonder. did a dev/brenlo say that they would add completely new gear every 2 months? because that would be dumb if the current system stays as is. it's impossible to gear up my characters at rate even if i just gear up one per account/my favorites. dev's NEED to make adjustments for alts. alts are important to this game financially and entertainment wise or else who's going to use your new starting city(halas)? who's going to buy your RAF accounts? you made a mistake and the player base is not pleased, please fix this issue quickly and restore our good faith in this game. treating people unfairly will not keep this game fun, EQ2 is not a "hard core" game like EQ was. it was developed to give the "casual" player just as much of a chance to progress as the "hard core" player. that's why the game has such core mechanics as vitality and research assistants. this was not thought out with those principles in mind, please make it right.</blockquote>Hey Dav, my brigand friend geared up a paladin and an inquistor with both sets of BG gear. Why are your alts lagging behind?If you don't do BG's for the majority of your time in EQ2 its only right that the majority of your alts will not be geared for it.</blockquote>Winner! This coming from myself, who has an extended account full of alts...</blockquote>Looser! unlike you two i can afford multiple accounts. thus i and others like me make SOE more money then you do! since the alts are on different accounts i can't just rip thru BG's on my geard main to get all my alts gear like your "friend". btw i'm no lagging behind anyone since i don't play to compete with people, i play for my own entertainment!</blockquote>Lol, Going to insinuating we are poor because we may or may not pay for two accounts or more, which even that you don't know doesn't help your arguement at all. Also, Great spelling of the word loser, kind of reflects how much of a winner you are. Didn't the whole raiding this expansion also have some sort of effect on multiple account players to which the made the red adorns heirloom instead of tradeable. This is nothing new or exclusive to BG's, and like that complaining no matter how much you want to go at it, it's not going to change.

Davngr1

05-31-2010, 04:11 AM

<cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm not sure what the fuss is about. If we go by the assumption that new gear comes out every few months, then that should be plenty of time to gear a main and an alt each cycle and perhaps a second alt. If you play casually and I mean really casually, then you can still gear out a main and at the worst halfway gear out an alt.To be effective in the battleground, having half T1 and half T2 BG armor will still work. Thats assuming an alt of course. You can gear out a main first each round and place your alt on a cycle, gear half of the slots one round, then upgrade the T1 with the T3 when it comes out, then the T2 with T4.Its not perfect no. But thats sort of how it works with most PVE content. Most peeps don't get alts fully geared out, and by the time they do, another expansion more or less invalidates it(yea this is another expansion this works exactly the same, wow). And thats assuming you get 23 other people on board to let you gear the alt out. Some guilds allow it, other guilds may not or may not have the capability.At least with BG gear the only limit is the individual. Its not a bad setup really. Was three months too quick? Maybe. However it was a new GU that got put out. Not a bad time to release a new tier, even if it was a little early( i really can't understand how you can say this nonsense, fanboi much?). If GU's come out every 4 months then that should be plenty of time to gear up an alt or two in addition to a main(yea giving up your life, no thanks).If you're trying to fully gear 7 characters (or 12 characters with SP) then I don't know what to tell you. Either play it hardcore and run 16 hours a day of BGs or sit down and stop complaining. Thats an excessive desire and the devs will never cater to that( do you understand that this game is here to make money? or do you think this is some thing else?). Blizzard doesn't even do that. 2-3 alts I can see, and with the current system there's plenty of time for those that are devoted to it. But anymore then that and you're trying to have your cake and eat it plus everything else in the fridge.The good news is the current tokens work with the new gear. Imagine if the tokens changed each time?( they might as well have changed the tokens so EVERYONE get's SCREWD not just the poeple that purchased gear!)</blockquote>really can't understand why you even bother to post bro. in your own post you admit that dev's are stupid for doing this yet you advocate the current system? are you bipolar? seriously make up your mind and make a valid point why this works instead of admitting dev's are wrong but kissing up anyway!

bks6721

05-31-2010, 04:20 AM

although I would REALLY like to be able to simply upgrade since I have a full set of the preseason armor I don't think its a good idea. Here's why.1. Getting T1 shard gear before you could get T2 blew. I'd rather just save the shards for T2. Same applies to BG gear.2. It's already been mentioned that there will be more "seasons" with more gear. Someone starting BG this summer for the first time shouldn't have to aquire 3 or more full sets before they can purchase the "current" good stuff. THAT would be too much of a time sink and would be a major discouragement to someone starting BG's later than the rest of us did.What WOULD be nice is if we knew what the "Season" schedule was so we could make an intelligent decision on when we should make a purchase or wait until the new season. I've already decided to skip this First Season gear and save my tokens for the next season. My pre-season gear will have to do for now. It's not a matter of tokens for me. I have too much plat into my "white" adornments to toss them out already for the new set gear.

Davngr1

05-31-2010, 04:22 AM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>But theres new gear in 2 more months again and then 2 months after that.With that kind of mentality you dont have to worry about gear cause you will never have to buy it.</blockquote> ok at first i just thought it was troll talk but now im starting to wonder. did a dev/brenlo say that they would add completely new gear every 2 months? because that would be dumb if the current system stays as is. it's impossible to gear up my characters at rate even if i just gear up one per account/my favorites. dev's NEED to make adjustments for alts. alts are important to this game financially and entertainment wise or else who's going to use your new starting city(halas)? who's going to buy your RAF accounts? you made a mistake and the player base is not pleased, please fix this issue quickly and restore our good faith in this game. treating people unfairly will not keep this game fun, EQ2 is not a "hard core" game like EQ was. it was developed to give the "casual" player just as much of a chance to progress as the "hard core" player. that's why the game has such core mechanics as vitality and research assistants. this was not thought out with those principles in mind, please make it right.</blockquote>Hey Dav, my brigand friend geared up a paladin and an inquistor with both sets of BG gear. Why are your alts lagging behind?If you don't do BG's for the majority of your time in EQ2 its only right that the majority of your alts will not be geared for it.</blockquote>Winner! This coming from myself, who has an extended account full of alts...</blockquote>Looser! unlike you two i can afford multiple accounts. thus i and others like me make SOE more money then you do! since the alts are on different accounts i can't just rip thru BG's on my geard main to get all my alts gear like your "friend". btw i'm no lagging behind anyone since i don't play to compete with people, i play for my own entertainment!</blockquote>Lol, Going to insinuating we are poor because we may or may not pay for two accounts or more, which even that you don't know doesn't help your arguement at all. Also, Great spelling of the word loser, kind of reflects how much of a winner you are. Didn't the whole raiding this expansion also have some sort of effect on multiple account players to which the made the red adorns heirloom instead of tradeable. This is nothing new or exclusive to BG's, and like that complaining no matter how much you want to go at it, it's not going to change.</blockquote>not insulting anyone, i just used the word looser to contrast you posting the word winner. by the way i used two oo to make the "o" sound out longer.. guess i should have used more o's? like looooooOOOOooOOoOOOoser? well tbh i felt two o's was enough <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> btw quite funny how you did insult me directly <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> specially since my spelling was deliberate! were is the new T1 gear? were is the new T2 gear? 2 months is TOO short of a time to replace gear PEOPLE WORKED FOR! its not hard to see this is unfair and stupid! and i really don't care how many dev suck ups post garbage! i'm not going to sit back and let stupid things like this go down with out speaking out against it! the real question is what will you suck up's say if a dev post here tomorrow: yea this was wrong, we're gonna change it. will you change your toon as well? of course!

Davngr1

05-31-2010, 04:28 AM

<cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>although I would REALLY like to be able to simply upgrade since I have a full set of the preseason armor I don't think its a good idea. Here's why.1. Getting T1 shard gear before you could get T2 blew. I'd rather just save the shards for T2. Same applies to BG gear.2. It's already been mentioned that there will be more "seasons" with more gear. Someone starting BG this summer for the first time shouldn't have to aquire 3 or more full sets before they can purchase the "current" good stuff. THAT would be too much of a time sink and would be a major discouragement to someone starting BG's later than the rest of us did.What WOULD be nice is if we knew what the "Season" schedule was so we could make an intelligent decision on when we should make a purchase or wait until the new season. I've already decided to skip this First Season gear and save my tokens for the next season. My pre-season gear will have to do for now. It's not a matter of tokens for me. I have too much plat into my "white" adornments to toss them out already for the new set gear.</blockquote> you're being too kind. this idea stinks, period! it will bring stupid amounts of imbalance and will burn out most everyone. devs can choose to do this but i will be against it the entire time and will be there to say "i told you so" when it all burns to the ground. do you really think they can keep upgrading gear every 3 months? with out it becoming ridiculously overpowered?

Notsovilepriest

05-31-2010, 04:36 AM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>although I would REALLY like to be able to simply upgrade since I have a full set of the preseason armor I don't think its a good idea. Here's why.1. Getting T1 shard gear before you could get T2 blew. I'd rather just save the shards for T2. Same applies to BG gear.2. It's already been mentioned that there will be more "seasons" with more gear. Someone starting BG this summer for the first time shouldn't have to aquire 3 or more full sets before they can purchase the "current" good stuff. THAT would be too much of a time sink and would be a major discouragement to someone starting BG's later than the rest of us did.What WOULD be nice is if we knew what the "Season" schedule was so we could make an intelligent decision on when we should make a purchase or wait until the new season. I've already decided to skip this First Season gear and save my tokens for the next season. My pre-season gear will have to do for now. It's not a matter of tokens for me. I have too much plat into my "white" adornments to toss them out already for the new set gear.</blockquote> you're being too kind. this idea stinks, period! it will bring stupid amounts of imbalance and will burn out most everyone. devs can choose to do this but i will be against it the entire time and will be there to say "i told you so" when it all burns to the ground. do you really think they can keep upgrading gear every 3 months? with out it becoming ridiculously overpowered? </blockquote>How long have you been playing? EQ2 Itemization is, Release it, Few months later say it was too OP, Nerf it down, then next time make the same items you nerfed down in the first place.

Davngr1

05-31-2010, 04:43 AM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>although I would REALLY like to be able to simply upgrade since I have a full set of the preseason armor I don't think its a good idea. Here's why.1. Getting T1 shard gear before you could get T2 blew. I'd rather just save the shards for T2. Same applies to BG gear.2. It's already been mentioned that there will be more "seasons" with more gear. Someone starting BG this summer for the first time shouldn't have to aquire 3 or more full sets before they can purchase the "current" good stuff. THAT would be too much of a time sink and would be a major discouragement to someone starting BG's later than the rest of us did.What WOULD be nice is if we knew what the "Season" schedule was so we could make an intelligent decision on when we should make a purchase or wait until the new season. I've already decided to skip this First Season gear and save my tokens for the next season. My pre-season gear will have to do for now. It's not a matter of tokens for me. I have too much plat into my "white" adornments to toss them out already for the new set gear.</blockquote> you're being too kind. this idea stinks, period! it will bring stupid amounts of imbalance and will burn out most everyone. devs can choose to do this but i will be against it the entire time and will be there to say "i told you so" when it all burns to the ground. do you really think they can keep upgrading gear every 3 months? with out it becoming ridiculously overpowered? </blockquote>How long have you been playing? EQ2 Itemization is, Release it, Few months later say it was too OP, Nerf it down, then next time make the same items you nerfed down in the first place.</blockquote>how long how you been playing eq2? do you not know or did you leave out the FACT that everyone HATES that? grand idea old chap! lets released more overpower loot people won't get to keep because we will nerf it! lets do it every 2 months so loot becomes trivial! hey check out guys! i finaly got this really great item i have been WORKING to get for a long time! so sorry, it's useless 2 weeks later! for this retardation to work the token influx would have to be tripled if not quadrupled so "regular" people could ACTUALLY see some progression. you do understand that it's the regualr people with jobs that keep this game alive? dont you? or can you pay the bills with hard core?

Notsovilepriest

05-31-2010, 04:58 AM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>although I would REALLY like to be able to simply upgrade since I have a full set of the preseason armor I don't think its a good idea. Here's why.1. Getting T1 shard gear before you could get T2 blew. I'd rather just save the shards for T2. Same applies to BG gear.2. It's already been mentioned that there will be more "seasons" with more gear. Someone starting BG this summer for the first time shouldn't have to aquire 3 or more full sets before they can purchase the "current" good stuff. THAT would be too much of a time sink and would be a major discouragement to someone starting BG's later than the rest of us did.What WOULD be nice is if we knew what the "Season" schedule was so we could make an intelligent decision on when we should make a purchase or wait until the new season. I've already decided to skip this First Season gear and save my tokens for the next season. My pre-season gear will have to do for now. It's not a matter of tokens for me. I have too much plat into my "white" adornments to toss them out already for the new set gear.</blockquote> you're being too kind. this idea stinks, period! it will bring stupid amounts of imbalance and will burn out most everyone. devs can choose to do this but i will be against it the entire time and will be there to say "i told you so" when it all burns to the ground. do you really think they can keep upgrading gear every 3 months? with out it becoming ridiculously overpowered? </blockquote>How long have you been playing? EQ2 Itemization is, Release it, Few months later say it was too OP, Nerf it down, then next time make the same items you nerfed down in the first place.</blockquote>how long how you been playing eq2? do you not know or did you leave out the FACT that everyone HATES that? grand idea old chap! lets released more overpower loot people won't get to keep because we will nerf it! lets do it every 2 months so loot becomes trivial! hey check out guys! i finaly got this really great item i have been WORKING to get for a long time! so sorry, it's useless 2 weeks later! for this retardation to work the token influx would have to be tripled if not quadrupled so "regular" people could ACTUALLY see some progression. you do understand that it's the regualr people with jobs that keep this game alive? dont you? or can you pay the bills with hard core? </blockquote>Wow, You mean people like myself, who have a social life, goes to college, and work have to put in time like everyone else to get the gear you want? Just because I do all that stuff I don't feel that SoE should make it easier to get the gear to accomidate me having to do other stuff. The gear is already extremely easy to get, even playing casually, even upgrading it often it's still super easy to attain, especially for the time spent to get it.

Davngr1

05-31-2010, 05:06 AM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>although I would REALLY like to be able to simply upgrade since I have a full set of the preseason armor I don't think its a good idea. Here's why.1. Getting T1 shard gear before you could get T2 blew. I'd rather just save the shards for T2. Same applies to BG gear.2. It's already been mentioned that there will be more "seasons" with more gear. Someone starting BG this summer for the first time shouldn't have to aquire 3 or more full sets before they can purchase the "current" good stuff. THAT would be too much of a time sink and would be a major discouragement to someone starting BG's later than the rest of us did.What WOULD be nice is if we knew what the "Season" schedule was so we could make an intelligent decision on when we should make a purchase or wait until the new season. I've already decided to skip this First Season gear and save my tokens for the next season. My pre-season gear will have to do for now. It's not a matter of tokens for me. I have too much plat into my "white" adornments to toss them out already for the new set gear.</blockquote> you're being too kind. this idea stinks, period! it will bring stupid amounts of imbalance and will burn out most everyone. devs can choose to do this but i will be against it the entire time and will be there to say "i told you so" when it all burns to the ground. do you really think they can keep upgrading gear every 3 months? with out it becoming ridiculously overpowered? </blockquote>How long have you been playing? EQ2 Itemization is, Release it, Few months later say it was too OP, Nerf it down, then next time make the same items you nerfed down in the first place.</blockquote>how long how you been playing eq2? do you not know or did you leave out the FACT that everyone HATES that? grand idea old chap! lets released more overpower loot people won't get to keep because we will nerf it! lets do it every 2 months so loot becomes trivial! hey check out guys! i finaly got this really great item i have been WORKING to get for a long time! so sorry, it's useless 2 weeks later! for this retardation to work the token influx would have to be tripled if not quadrupled so "regular" people could ACTUALLY see some progression. you do understand that it's the regualr people with jobs that keep this game alive? dont you? or can you pay the bills with hard core? </blockquote>Wow, You mean people like myself, who have a social life, goes to college, and work have to put in time like everyone else to get the gear you want? Just because I do all that stuff I don't feel that SoE should make it easier to get the gear to accomidate me having to do other stuff. The gear is already extremely easy to get, even playing casually, even upgrading it often it's still super easy to attain, especially for the time spent to get it.</blockquote> do you even play this game man? srsly anyone who thinks adding new armor every 2 months will work is thinking of another game not this one. go ahead and make a break down of your play time and how many tokens you get from from it. edit. BTW a big LOL at you saying SOE making it "easier" when in FACT it's not ANY harder to get the better gear then it was to get the out dated gear!

Dekedar

05-31-2010, 05:09 AM

I agree, people should not have to go through succesion of T1-T2-.... so on later in the progression, so the best way, imo, to handle this is to add a % return of tokens on what you ORIGINALLY spent on the gear, not what the current price is. Make it happen SoE, I'm getting impatient.

Trawe

05-31-2010, 05:41 AM

you getting impatient? omg god beware. good thing german players have all patience in the world sosoe eventually gives us something in return for their false promises they used to cheat us into buying SF.

Eritius

05-31-2010, 01:23 PM

Dav is a troll. Nothing more to see here.

Davngr1

05-31-2010, 03:19 PM

<cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dav is a troll. Nothing more to see here.</blockquote>so now posting relevant information is trolling?

Cantor

05-31-2010, 03:49 PM

<cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dav is a troll. Nothing more to see here.</blockquote>A troll? I don't think so. He's right, btw.

Eritius

05-31-2010, 07:00 PM

<cite>Cantor@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dav is a troll. Nothing more to see here.</blockquote>A troll? I don't think so. He's right, btw.</blockquote>So he's right when confronted with facts that what he states is untrue (that one cannot gear more then 1-2 alts in a 3 months timeframe in BGs) he states that the ones citing said facts are poor because they cannot afford more then one account?Want to explain that one to me?

Dekedar

05-31-2010, 07:45 PM

Want to explain to me how you can derail my thread so badly? I'm sure you don't and will try explaining how your irrevelant argument pertains to the idea behind this thread, but you will fail. Lets get back on target:SoE should put forth a system to sell back BG armor for a % return on the gear. Go!Also, for the altaholics, it would be helpful if you decided you no longer wanted to play 1 alt and could sell the gear to gear up a new alt.If you are arguing against me point, tell me how this is a bad, negative, or unfair idea.

Crismorn

05-31-2010, 08:35 PM

If you want the gear then meet the requirements.The requirements are on each piece of gear that you want to buy.In 2 months you will have the OPTION to re-gear.

Dekedar

05-31-2010, 08:47 PM

It's weird to me that you can type but not read. Or you don't understand the question. Or you lack reasoning skills. Or all of the above. You are the troll. Come to a thread, make a post, disregard on topic posting and direct question about the topic at hand.

Davngr1

05-31-2010, 09:13 PM

<cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cantor@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dav is a troll. Nothing more to see here.</blockquote>A troll? I don't think so. He's right, btw.</blockquote>So he's right when confronted with facts that what he states is untrue (that one cannot gear more then 1-2 alts in a 3 months timeframe in BGs) he states that the ones citing said facts are poor because they cannot afford more then one account?Want to explain that one to me?</blockquote>the thread is not about alts. i just highlighted the fact that this type of gear system takes away fun from the game in that aspect. i never said you "can not" i said it's not something that a regular player will be able to achieve. FURTHER MORE you can not refute the FACT that adding new lvl 90 armor every 2 months is the about the stupidest thing ANY DEV could think up.srsly.. we gonna have 12 sets of lvl 90 armor by the time the next level cap rolls around? is it only me that sees that as a MASSIVE waste of resources? how about fixing the t1 summoner shoulders instead? or designing some mark gear that people will want to purchase? THAT is the point. people in this game have always taken the entire expansion to gear up with a few new items here and there. NO ONE likes to see their HARD EARNED GEAR become useless when the NEW expansion rolls out but the new content helps balance this. THERE IS NO NEW CONTENT added YET my gear is now out dated? i don't know how devs think this is going to work. i really can't believe they don't have the foresee the terribad itemization that is to come IF they start to release new gear every 2 months. i really don't think devs understand the $hitstorm that will ensued when they start to nerf EVERY SINGLE armor item to justify anyone purchasing the new armor. this is just so full of fail that i can't even understand what people are thinking when they advocate the this system is not BROKEN. how about you guys make some new maps every 2 months?btw. yes giving gear some type of trade-in value would help the situation BUT there is no way you're going to be able to keep a logical linear proggression if you upgrade gear every 2 months.

Notsovilepriest

05-31-2010, 09:14 PM

<cite>Gunthore@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's weird to me that you can type but not read. Or you don't understand the question. Or you lack reasoning skills. Or all of the above. You are the troll. Come to a thread, make a post, disregard on topic posting and direct question about the topic at hand.</blockquote>You can read but you can't comprehend honestly. If you want a piece of gear, meet the requirements to get it, You don't have to have any gear, you just want it.

Davngr1

05-31-2010, 09:28 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gunthore@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's weird to me that you can type but not read. Or you don't understand the question. Or you lack reasoning skills. Or all of the above. You are the troll. Come to a thread, make a post, disregard on topic posting and direct question about the topic at hand.</blockquote>You can read but you can't comprehend honestly. If you want a piece of gear, meet the requirements to get it, You don't have to have any gear, you just want it.</blockquote> what does this even mean? no new content. no new progression added. yet my gear is now out dated? how can you not see the stupid in that man? how can you really argue that this is a good implementation? i mean.. fine i think adding new stuff is cool but if you understand the way this game works, it's not hard to realize that this is not only unfair to anyone that played and purchased bg's gear(since there is no trade in value) BUT that it's also incredibly destructive to game balance! something that is a persisting problem with this game.

Dekedar

05-31-2010, 09:48 PM

Dav, I agree with you man. Erik, I understand the requirements to get the new BG gear, I'm about 15 tokens away from finishing the set. The point is, you should be able to sell the gear back, or, as Dav said, before long we'll have sets upon sets of useless sets sitting in the bank. Why shouldn't we be able to get some number of tokens back? You act like I'm offending you. I'm not saying I want a 100% refund, what would you say if I said I'd like to sell my gear back for 5 tokens per piece? Would that enrage you? No? How about 10 tokens? Tell me what you think, don't spit out random arguments that are neither here nor there and don't belong in this thread.

Crismorn

05-31-2010, 10:49 PM

I agree with Dav too, we should only have to work towards one set of gear and all future gear should be given to us because we pay $14.99 a month.Just make sure you do the same thing for raid gear please, I spent well over 2 months raiding last year so I should get everything I want without having to redo that ciontent.

Eritius

05-31-2010, 11:05 PM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cantor@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dav is a troll. Nothing more to see here.</blockquote>A troll? I don't think so. He's right, btw.</blockquote>So he's right when confronted with facts that what he states is untrue (that one cannot gear more then 1-2 alts in a 3 months timeframe in BGs) he states that the ones citing said facts are poor because they cannot afford more then one account?Want to explain that one to me?</blockquote>the thread is not about alts. i just highlighted the fact that this type of gear system takes away fun from the game in that aspect. i never said you "can not" i said it's not something that a regular player will be able to achieve. FURTHER MORE you can not refute the FACT that adding new lvl 90 armor every 2 months is the about the stupidest thing ANY DEV could think up.srsly.. we gonna have 12 sets of lvl 90 armor by the time the next level cap rolls around? is it only me that sees that as a MASSIVE waste of resources? how about fixing the t1 summoner shoulders instead? or designing some mark gear that people will want to purchase? THAT is the point. people in this game have always taken the entire expansion to gear up with a few new items here and there. NO ONE likes to see their HARD EARNED GEAR become useless when the NEW expansion rolls out but the new content helps balance this. THERE IS NO NEW CONTENT added YET my gear is now out dated? i don't know how devs think this is going to work. i really can't believe they don't have the foresee the terribad itemization that is to come IF they start to release new gear every 2 months. i really don't think devs understand the $hitstorm that will ensued when they start to nerf EVERY SINGLE armor item to justify anyone purchasing the new armor. this is just so full of fail that i can't even understand what people are thinking when they advocate the this system is not BROKEN. how about you guys make some new maps every 2 months?btw. yes giving gear some type of trade-in value would help the situation BUT there is no way you're going to be able to keep a logical linear proggression if you upgrade gear every 2 months.</blockquote>You brought up Alts, not me.And there is new content. Its called fighting better geared players then before. New maps wouldn't be a bad thing, as long as they disable the old ones so that we don't have longer queues.Can we get rares back when we sell our MC gear? Where is the line drawn for something like that? You all are asking for a fix to a mechanic that isn't even broke. Then insulting everyone that disagrees with you? For what? A simple return on tokens?Lets say you get what you want and get a 50% return (lets agree to use this number for the sake of argument). That means you only need 895 tokens for the T2. At first that seems about reasonable. Even I would admit that isn't that bad. However here's where the problem comes in. Once you have your gear what will you do? Continue to BG? Doubtful. Once someone has all the rares they need, they usually don't keep gathering except for alts. But PVE is static content, this is fine. PVP is dynamic and changes alot more then PVE. As it should, competitive play is a different ball game.The current system is slightly flawed, that much I will agree on. But it is not flawed because of how fast the gear comes out, or whether you get a return on gear. Its the incentive. Right now gear gets more and more expensive to get gear. It costed 1310 tokens for gear (minus weapons and minus charms) in T1. It costs 1470 tokens for T2 now. And by that equation it will cost 1630 tokens in T3. What that means is someone could save up 1630 tokens NOW and get the T3 when it comes out.What needs to change is tokens need to change. T1 tokens can buy T1, T2 tokens (which would be dropping now if they implemented this) would drop now, and T3 tokens would drop in the future, ect. If they did this, then I would agree to a system like PVE gear works. Say you want to buy T2 chestpiece, you can pay 110 T2 tokens or 65 T1 tokens AND the T1 chestpiece.This way the time spent getting the first tier isn't wasted AND the time spent after getting the gear is not wasted (those extra tokens could get you upgrades). People just starting PVP would be in the same boat they are in now, they'd need the 110 tokens for the chest.I think that is a fair compromise. You all don't want your time wasted I want to see people have Incentives to stay in the BG. This would even prevent people from stockpiling two (or more) tiers ahead of the content, something I think we all can agree shouldn't happen. This system doesn't require a rating or any of that nonsense WoW has.

crunn

05-31-2010, 11:23 PM

No word from SOE, no replies, no responses from those petition, no communication.A growing trend that the staff are posting less and less on the forums, im sure reading less and less. And caring less and less.All quiet on the western front.We have all been screwed over again. no suprise realy. And we will be again and again every couple months or so they will simply obsolite all our gear and waste our hard work.Although i do have a wild and radical idea. Why dont we all just leave BG? Why dont we all just go back to what we did before? Why not go play propper EQ2 with our guildies and friends like we have always done? Lets just all walk away and leave it. Today, right now, just stop.

Dekedar

05-31-2010, 11:24 PM

Thanks for understanding. We just don't want our time to be wasted, who does? I don't think stockpiling is too big of a problem, if you change the tokens each time you are essentially making it not worthwhile for people to continue bg after they are geared out. But that's another issue, I just want some sort of return on my old gear.

Crismorn

06-01-2010, 12:33 AM

<cite>Gunthore@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thanks for understanding. We just don't want our time to be wasted, who does? I don't think stockpiling is too big of a problem, if you change the tokens each time you are essentially making it not worthwhile for people to continue bg after they are geared out. But that's another issue, I just want some sort of return on my old gear.</blockquote>It was not wasted you had up to 2 months worth of time with it as the best and its still very good, if you want the best gear right now then you have to keep playing and then in another 2 months this will happen again so get over it now or you never will.

Eritius

06-01-2010, 02:44 AM

I could be wrong, but I really don't think its going to be so quick with the next tier of BG gear. I think Halas was burning hot and it was a good time to throw it in compared to waiting till the next update after that. The latter would have been an even dumber move as people would have had time to save enough tokens for T2 and T3 for a few alts.It was the lesser of two evils. Could they have done a minipatch? Can't say, I don't know what their server structure is like. I know patches are a PITA for devs as it is.

bks6721

06-01-2010, 03:23 AM

<cite>Gunthore@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dav, I agree with you man. Erik, I understand the requirements to get the new BG gear, I'm about 15 tokens away from finishing the set. The point is, you should be able to sell the gear back, or, as Dav said, before long we'll have sets upon sets of useless sets sitting in the bank. Why shouldn't we be able to get some number of tokens back? You act like I'm offending you. I'm not saying I want a 100% refund, what would you say if I said I'd like to sell my gear back for 5 tokens per piece? Would that enrage you? No? How about 10 tokens? Tell me what you think, don't spit out random arguments that are neither here nor there and don't belong in this thread.</blockquote>name a piece of gear in this game that we can "sell back" once we choose not to use it any longer.

bks6721

06-01-2010, 03:28 AM

<cite>Gunthore@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thanks for understanding. We just don't want our time to be wasted, who does? I don't think stockpiling is too big of a problem, if you change the tokens each time you are essentially making it not worthwhile for people to continue bg after they are geared out. But that's another issue, I just want some sort of return on my old gear.</blockquote>The time is only "wasted" if you approach it like a job. Myself, I had fun getting enough tokens for the first set of gear. Nobody, including SOE owes you a thing. You want the next set of gear? Go EARN it. Everquest 2 is NOT a welfare state.

Dekedar

06-01-2010, 04:17 AM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gunthore@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thanks for understanding. We just don't want our time to be wasted, who does? I don't think stockpiling is too big of a problem, if you change the tokens each time you are essentially making it not worthwhile for people to continue bg after they are geared out. But that's another issue, I just want some sort of return on my old gear.</blockquote>It was not wasted you had up to 2 months worth of time with it as the best and its still very good, if you want the best gear right now then you have to keep playing and then in another 2 months this will happen again so get over it now or you never will.</blockquote>I can't look at your name without noticing if you just added an "o" your name would be Crismoron. Fits pretty well, no?

Davngr1

06-01-2010, 06:35 AM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>I agree with Dav too, we should only have to work towards one set of gear and all future gear should be given to us because we pay $14.99 a month.Just make sure you do the same thing for raid gear please, I spent well over 2 months raiding last year so I should get everything I want without having to redo that ciontent.</blockquote>i consider you a good player but i'm starting to have second thoughts about how well you understand this game. do you really think it's healthy for the game to upgrade gear every two months? when gear has been upgraded one a year if that for the past 5 years this game has been out. do you really not understand that upgrading gear every 2 months will lead to grossly over power gear follows by massive nerfs to EVERYTHING? seriously man.. it just seems like you're arguing to argue because i don't really think you understand how stupid this system is/would be once we get to the 3rd or 4th campaign.<cite>Pauly@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gunthore@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thanks for understanding. We just don't want our time to be wasted, who does? I don't think stockpiling is too big of a problem, if you change the tokens each time you are essentially making it not worthwhile for people to continue bg after they are geared out. But that's another issue, I just want some sort of return on my old gear.</blockquote>The time is only "wasted" if you approach it like a job. Myself, I had fun getting enough tokens for the first set of gear. Nobody, including SOE owes you a thing. You want the next set of gear? Go EARN it. Everquest 2 is NOT a welfare state.</blockquote>the point is that 2months is too soon to have to purchase an complete set of armor again. the point is that two sets of lvl 90 armor is one set too many. the point is that this game WORKS and is still alive & kicking after 5 years because peoples EFFORT isin't TRIVIALIZED like it is in other DUR DUR DUR games! point is you need to back up and understand what the actual issue is and understand EVERYONE posting here LIKES playing BG's and WILL CONTINUE to do so. <cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>You brought up Alts, not me.And there is new content. Its called fighting better geared players then before. New maps wouldn't be a bad thing, as long as they disable the old ones so that we don't have longer queues.Can we get rares back when we sell our MC gear? Where is the line drawn for something like that? You all are asking for a fix to a mechanic that isn't even broke. Then insulting everyone that disagrees with you? For what? A simple return on tokens?Lets say you get what you want and get a 50% return (lets agree to use this number for the sake of argument). That means you only need 895 tokens for the T2. At first that seems about reasonable. Even I would admit that isn't that bad. However here's where the problem comes in. Once you have your gear what will you do? Continue to BG? Doubtful. Once someone has all the rares they need, they usually don't keep gathering except for alts. But PVE is static content, this is fine. PVP is dynamic and changes alot more then PVE. As it should, competitive play is a different ball game.The current system is slightly flawed, that much I will agree on. But it is not flawed because of how fast the gear comes out, or whether you get a return on gear. Its the incentive. Right now gear gets more and more expensive to get gear. It costed 1310 tokens for gear (minus weapons and minus charms) in T1. It costs 1470 tokens for T2 now. And by that equation it will cost 1630 tokens in T3. What that means is someone could save up 1630 tokens NOW and get the T3 when it comes out.What needs to change is tokens need to change. T1 tokens can buy T1, T2 tokens (which would be dropping now if they implemented this) would drop now, and T3 tokens would drop in the future, ect. If they did this, then I would agree to a system like PVE gear works. Say you want to buy T2 chestpiece, you can pay 110 T2 tokens or 65 T1 tokens AND the T1 chestpiece.This way the time spent getting the first tier isn't wasted AND the time spent after getting the gear is not wasted (those extra tokens could get you upgrades). People just starting PVP would be in the same boat they are in now, they'd need the 110 tokens for the chest.I think that is a fair compromise. You all don't want your time wasted I want to see people have Incentives to stay in the BG. This would even prevent people from stockpiling two (or more) tiers ahead of the content, something I think we all can agree shouldn't happen. This system doesn't require a rating or any of that nonsense WoW has.</blockquote> sure some type of trade in value would help the situation but even then if devs really plan on replacing gear every 2 months this will be a catastrophe. there was no new content added, better geard players being new content, is another redundant statement taht does not make sense. if they plan on replacing gear every 2 months they need to shorten the time sink because right now 2 months isin't nearly enough time for a regular player to enjoy the gear and get all the gear he wants with REGULAR play times! not "get a life" play times!. average match takes about 10 minutes , average wait time is about 5 minutes(put in bathroom breaks and whatever else might slow down the next match) so that's 1 to 3 tokens every 15 minutes. 4 to 12 tokens every hour. average play time is about 3 -5 hours, so that's 20 - 60 tokens IF you play 5 hours lets say 5 days a week because you do stuff on two days = 100 - 300 a week 400 - 1200 a month 800 - 2400 tokens every two months. so by your calculations after 2 months i would barely be able to get full bg's armor and that's IF im lucky on the wins cos if i lose more often then win i won't even be able to buy ONE set of just armor never mind the jewelry! so yea.. how in the *uck can anyone think this is ok? truly boggles the mind!

Eritius

06-01-2010, 12:51 PM

thats solo play. There's no better gear for a non-soloer then BG gear. Now imagine if you went in as a premade. No only would you better your chances at 3 marks per game, when you do win you win faster. The trick there is finding friends to do it.I think your calculations is off. A friend of mine was able to gear out 3 characters before T2 was on test. His work schedule doesn't allow for him to play as often as 5 hours a day. There's other players that can attest to this as well I'm sure.

Draag

06-01-2010, 02:10 PM

I wouldnt mind (as much) if they came out with a schedule. If you KNEW that every 2 months a new, better, full set was going to be out, you would be much more likely to just hoard your tokens so you could dominate every other season or so.But honestly, do you think they are going to do that? I think it is more likely that this will be the last set for 6months or so. I could be wrong... but a little communication would go A LONG way.

Davngr1

06-01-2010, 05:28 PM

<cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>thats solo play. There's no better gear for a non-soloer then BG gear. Now imagine if you went in as a premade. No only would you better your chances at 3 marks per game, when you do win you win faster. The trick there is finding friends to do it.I think your calculations is off. A friend of mine was able to gear out 3 characters before T2 was on test. His work schedule doesn't allow for him to play as often as 5 hours a day. There's other players that can attest to this as well I'm sure.</blockquote>if you think my calculations are wrong go ahead and post your own but keep in mind mine are of someone whom is casually enjoying BG's not a hard core player who devotes his life to it. with out actually having your "friend" post here it is all speculation and i doubt he didn't have any raid gear/instance gear at all. you don't need two different sets of lvl 90 gear that serve the SAME PURPOSE that is the point. there is NO reason to get the out dated gear now that the new gear is out that alone proves how unbalanced this is.

Eritius

06-01-2010, 07:13 PM

Some like the color of the old BG gear, so its there for their appearance slot. At least they don't have to spend SC on it.

Dreadpatch

06-01-2010, 08:58 PM

I think the best point here is that new gear came out before new game content. As I stated in an earlier post, I wouldn't have so much of an issue trying to earn new gear if I wasn't stuck doing it on the 3 same tired old maps and game types. I like BG as a whole, but I'm so sick of doing the same 3 zones. Let's also get something straight.... The BG gear is not OPTIONAL for people who want to play the BG for real. It makes a huge difference, and you need to get your buttocks handed to you for several games before you even get the first couple of piece to improve your survivability. Even with my coercer I can pwn an undergeared crusader with just 6 pieces of the old BG gear. New Content = WIN New Armor with no New Content = FAIL New Armor + New Content = WIN confirm/deny my math?

Davngr1

06-01-2010, 09:57 PM

<cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Some like the color of the old BG gear, so its there for their appearance slot. At least they don't have to spend SC on it.</blockquote>lol you have proven my point 1000x over with this statement sir, thank you.<cite>Elusion@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think the best point here is that new gear came out before new game content. As I stated in an earlier post, I wouldn't have so much of an issue trying to earn new gear if I wasn't stuck doing it on the 3 same tired old maps and game types. I like BG as a whole, but I'm so sick of doing the same 3 zones. Let's also get something straight.... The BG gear is not OPTIONAL for people who want to play the BG for real. It makes a huge difference, and you need to get your buttocks handed to you for several games before you even get the first couple of piece to improve your survivability. Even with my coercer I can pwn an undergeared crusader with just 6 pieces of the old BG gear. New Content = WIN New Armor with no New Content = FAIL New Armor + New Content = WIN confirm/deny my math? </blockquote> +1

crunn

06-07-2010, 12:45 PM

<cite>Elusion@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think the best point here is that new gear came out before new game content. As I stated in an earlier post, I wouldn't have so much of an issue trying to earn new gear if I wasn't stuck doing it on the 3 same tired old maps and game types. I like BG as a whole, but I'm so sick of doing the same 3 zones. Let's also get something straight.... The BG gear is not OPTIONAL for people who want to play the BG for real. It makes a huge difference, and you need to get your buttocks handed to you for several games before you even get the first couple of piece to improve your survivability. Even with my coercer I can pwn an undergeared crusader with just 6 pieces of the old BG gear. New Content = WIN New Armor with no New Content = FAIL New Armor + New Content = WIN confirm/deny my math? </blockquote>Agreed that the old 3 maps are tired and we need some new ones. Gears always sucked and more now the relic pops back in the middle, none of my toons feel like they comtribute much in there, its mystic sk zerk or dont bother. Gank is fun if you are a ranger. Den is the most visualy appealing but such a long drawn out game it gets boring fast, nothing much happens in the first 15mins, then its all chaos trying to get those last few points. BG is just boring now, we need more veriety. Anyway thats not really on topic.As for BG gear is not optional for those that want to play for real. I cant speak for other classes but ive been working on my necro more lately, thought id get him the BG set since i neglected him in the past. Started doing BG with the necro wearing a mix of 72MC and ROK dungeon loot. Got one shotted by everyone and couldnt land a single spell. After months of grueling BG's i have the full BG set on the necro and in stark contrast i now get one shotted by everyone and cant land a single spell. Sure its well established that necro is the worst class these days and entirely usless in BG.Now im stuck with all this T1 BG equip (which turns out to be no better than 72MC for a necro in pvp), months of wasted time, cant use the blue adorns, cant upgrade it to something that might work a little better. I feel cheated.The thought of starting over sickens me. Whats the point? Spend 2 months getting the T2, just as i buy my last piece they come out with T3 and so on. Every couple of months i fell more and more sickened by SOE. Not to mention everything is so expensive in tokens. It takes 2 months or more playing a few hours a night nothing but BG to get one set. There is no way anyone has time to equip alts before everything is obsolete again. Most cant even equip thier main in that time.An upgrade system is the only sensible option. Do it exactly the same way as TSO, the same as shard gear is. Everyone has to get T1 first, then you trade in your T1 and some tokens for T2 and so on up. That way its fair and ballanced no one gets the advantage by long-term token hoarding. no one feels cheated.Untill there is an upgrade system im finished with BG. I was doing it for the equipment and once in a while there was a fun match, occasionaly i would go in with friends. Now i see the equip makes no difference i still get one shotted. I'm joining the vast majority of my guild and friends and all the angry people i keep seeing in lvl chat in boycoting BG.I say again. It has all turned throw-away consumerism. Its giving a bad message. The reason for the current global finacial disaster is being embraced, celebrated and taught to our children by SOE. SOE you are a very bad influence and need to mend your ways. Your reputation is already in tatters, you and EA are fighting for top place in the list of industry villans, borderline criminal tendancies.Show a little customer service, let us know whats happening.

Rick777

06-07-2010, 02:09 PM

<cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Some like the color of the old BG gear, so its there for their appearance slot. At least they don't have to spend SC on it.</blockquote>I loved the color of my Templar BG gear, it was a nice grey color. Then they went and added the challenger gear and made it an fugly yellow, sigh. I was hoping SOE learned their lesson with purple (T3 eggplant Templar shard armor) and yellow (T3 banana Coercer shard armor).

Rick777

06-07-2010, 02:15 PM

<cite>crunn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Elusion@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think the best point here is that new gear came out before new game content. As I stated in an earlier post, I wouldn't have so much of an issue trying to earn new gear if I wasn't stuck doing it on the 3 same tired old maps and game types. I like BG as a whole, but I'm so sick of doing the same 3 zones. Let's also get something straight.... The BG gear is not OPTIONAL for people who want to play the BG for real. It makes a huge difference, and you need to get your buttocks handed to you for several games before you even get the first couple of piece to improve your survivability. Even with my coercer I can pwn an undergeared crusader with just 6 pieces of the old BG gear. New Content = WIN New Armor with no New Content = FAIL New Armor + New Content = WIN confirm/deny my math? </blockquote>Agreed that the old 3 maps are tired and we need some new ones. Gears always sucked and more now the relic pops back in the middle, none of my toons feel like they comtribute much in there, its mystic sk zerk or dont bother. Gank is fun if you are a ranger. Den is the most visualy appealing but such a long drawn out game it gets boring fast, nothing much happens in the first 15mins, then its all chaos trying to get those last few points. BG is just boring now, we need more veriety. Anyway thats not really on topic.As for BG gear is not optional for those that want to play for real. I cant speak for other classes but ive been working on my necro more lately, thought id get him the BG set since i neglected him in the past. Started doing BG with the necro wearing a mix of 72MC and ROK dungeon loot. Got one shotted by everyone and couldnt land a single spell. After months of grueling BG's i have the full BG set on the necro and in stark contrast i now get one shotted by everyone and cant land a single spell. Sure its well established that necro is the worst class these days and entirely usless in BG.Now im stuck with all this T1 BG equip (which turns out to be no better than 72MC for a necro in pvp), months of wasted time, cant use the blue adorns, cant upgrade it to something that might work a little better. I feel cheated.The thought of starting over sickens me. Whats the point? Spend 2 months getting the T2, just as i buy my last piece they come out with T3 and so on. Every couple of months i fell more and more sickened by SOE. Not to mention everything is so expensive in tokens. It takes 2 months or more playing a few hours a night nothing but BG to get one set. There is no way anyone has time to equip alts before everything is obsolete again. Most cant even equip thier main in that time.An upgrade system is the only sensible option. Do it exactly the same way as TSO, the same as shard gear is. Everyone has to get T1 first, then you trade in your T1 and some tokens for T2 and so on up. That way its fair and ballanced no one gets the advantage by long-term token hoarding. no one feels cheated.Untill there is an upgrade system im finished with BG. I was doing it for the equipment and once in a while there was a fun match, occasionaly i would go in with friends. Now i see the equip makes no difference i still get one shotted. I'm joining the vast majority of my guild and friends and all the angry people i keep seeing in lvl chat in boycoting BG.I say again. It has all turned throw-away consumerism. Its giving a bad message. The reason for the current global finacial disaster is being embraced, celebrated and taught to our children by SOE. SOE you are a very bad influence and need to mend your ways. Your reputation is already in tatters, you and EA are fighting for top place in the list of industry villans, borderline criminal tendancies.Show a little customer service, let us know whats happening.</blockquote>What's going to happen is some massive burnout. I'll stop short of saying the vast majority of players in BG are only doing it for the gear, but I'd venture to guess most of them are suffering thru them for that reason. There is some enjoyment to be found in BG, as a BG hater I've learned to find the little tiny slivers of enjoyment that I can squeeze out. But I'd MUCH MUCH rather be playing PVE, unfortunately the PVE world is quite empty now, even on AB, and there really is not much more to do than BG's.Anyhow I'll bet there's going to be some burnout on the constant BG to get gear. Oh I'm sure there will be those hardcore players who will only be happy to play another couple thousand BG matches to get the next tier of gear, but most of us probably won't stick around for that, especially for the super tiny increases they offer.

Crismorn

06-07-2010, 02:42 PM

Then dont get the minor upgrades.If you do not enjoy the content then dont play it, just like crafting is lame for me bg's are lame for you and thats ok

Rick777

06-07-2010, 02:55 PM

crunn

06-07-2010, 03:16 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Then dont get the minor upgrades. If you do not enjoy the content then dont play it, just like crafting is lame for me bg's are lame for you and thats ok</blockquote>The content is not entirely bad, at least the idea behind it. Its just the system is flawed.The small changes they made to try to improve things, such as moving the relic back to center, have only made things worse. Adding new equipment so soon with no upgrade system. High prices. No way to change token types. Unballanced groups, random queue system. Gears groups are running fast day and night but den is impossible to get into off peak. Huge preference to those few class types.Thread after thread after thread of other issues.Thread after thread after thread of angry customers.But worst of all is SOE are being typicaly silent about it all, they dont come on here and talk to us, they never reasure us that things are being looked at, that our concerns are being passed on to the appropriate people. We dont even know if they read this.If this were anyother type of busness SOE would have closed down years ago for this sort of customer treatment.We are your customers, we pay your salary, we are talking to you SOE, all we want are some answers. Are the issues discussed in this thread and others being looked at? Are you even there? What is going on?