Icy Keep: Retribution (Raid) Feedback [Archive]

lollipop

05-25-2010, 04:53 PM

The port is going off almost back to back. We get ported run back into the water. Then soon as we get back to the water, bam red msg again to port us back to him. Honestly for easy to mod for this area and that being the first named. Getting rid of the port to the middle and haveing it just do the curse every 10% - knockback and the egg adds would have been perfect.oh also the hit box on the mob, something is "funny" about it. I box a dirge and norm have them on auto follow (I am a paly) When the dirge is on auto they wont aucto attk the named. I thought at first maybe super small hit box. So i moved the dirge closer...nothing. So i moved the dirge back away from the drake some and was auto attking. Im not sure if its a bug or maybe designed that way to punish people who box toons on auto follow.Being as this is a starter zone and meant for well really nooby players and that being the first named...I have to stress again I think the 10% thing is a bit much. I known some hardcore people will flame me for it but first named should be a simple tank and spank type for a zone like this.The gear is pretty much on par with t4 from the last xpac and legendary stuff from this one. This needed to be the "WoE" of this xpac but so far didnt delvier =(.

Gninja

05-25-2010, 05:09 PM

I will up the time between summons but not going to remove it completely. Just because its an easier zone doesnt mean they should be no challenge at all.

lollipop

05-25-2010, 05:15 PM

<cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>I will up the time between summons but not going to remove it completely. Just because its an easier zone doesnt mean they should be no challenge at all.</blockquote>agree, but one thing to remember. If you want an easy zone for Pick up groups and family casual people. It prolly should be dooable by 8-12 hardcore people with gear. Like easy tox. Do it with 8 people alot. Can easly push 120k dps with 8 people. Where I have seen pick up raids doing less then 100k with 24 people =/.Thanks for listening and responding so fast. I wish we could have tested it more on test for you =/. For some reason all of us didnt get copied over =/.

FimisOrbe

05-25-2010, 07:07 PM

Some x2 Trash mobs have still the No Loot symbol in an x3/4 Raid.Kastus and Odaufe are horrible with the Memwipes. Even if you keep them close to each other (HP wise), as soon as they come to the 75/50 etc mark, they perma Memwipe and aren't merged at the same Time. As soon as they Merged, they still memwipe way too much. How should you suposed to keep them, if they almost Insta kill you, as soon as you hit them?I know it should be an Easy Zone and you said Easy != [Removed for Content], but that Encounter is just dead Wrong in there.Overall I was kinda dissapointed, the Loot fits for a starter Zone. Also Vrewwx EM Loot... One Pattern and nothing else, though atleast you see a decent Item from him and not only one Pattern.Just my 2 cents~

Ldarax

05-25-2010, 09:59 PM

<cite>FimisOrbe wrote:</cite><blockquote>Some x2 Trash mobs have still the No Loot symbol in an x3/4 Raid.Kastus and Odaufe are horrible with the Memwipes. Even if you keep them close to each other (HP wise), as soon as they come to the 75/50 etc mark, they perma Memwipe and aren't merged at the same Time. As soon as they Merged, they still memwipe way too much. How should you suposed to keep them, if they almost Insta kill you, as soon as you hit them?I know it should be an Easy Zone and you said Easy != [Removed for Content], but that Encounter is just dead Wrong in there.Overall I was kinda dissapointed, the Loot fits for a starter Zone. Also Vrewwx EM Loot... One Pattern and nothing else, though atleast you see a decent Item from him and not only one Pattern.Just my 2 cents~</blockquote>There is a way to avoid the memwipe.

Sydares

05-25-2010, 10:02 PM

Where do you go after killing the 2nd named?The 3rd named seem to be immune and there are absolutely no pathways that aren't locked.

Sydares

05-25-2010, 10:17 PM

Well, this feels buggy.

kiku

05-25-2010, 10:23 PM

Yeah the port after 10% on the first named is to much...This is for causal pick up people. We where really excited, we thought it might bring more pick up raids to our server. I doupt it will now. /cry

Gninja

05-25-2010, 10:26 PM

<cite>Sydares wrote:</cite><blockquote>Where do you go after killing the 2nd named?The 3rd named seem to be immune and there are absolutely no pathways that aren't locked.</blockquote>Try splitting the raid force up a little bit... look around the room before you pull the named <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /><cite>kiku wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah the port after 10% on the first named is to much...This is for causal pick up people. We where really excited, we thought it might bring more pick up raids to our server. I doupt it will now. /cry</blockquote>I am going to lengthen the time between when he ports folks significantly in an upcoming hotfix.

Sydares

05-25-2010, 10:28 PM

Gninja

05-25-2010, 10:31 PM

nope

Sydares

05-25-2010, 10:34 PM

<cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>nope</blockquote>Then that was the most vague thing ever. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" />The levers tricked us into thinking we were missing something.

EQPrime

05-25-2010, 10:40 PM

No plat in the chests...

kiku

05-25-2010, 11:00 PM

<cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sydares wrote:</cite><blockquote>Where do you go after killing the 2nd named?The 3rd named seem to be immune and there are absolutely no pathways that aren't locked.</blockquote>Try splitting the raid force up a little bit... look around the room before you pull the named <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /><cite>kiku wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah the port after 10% on the first named is to much...This is for causal pick up people. We where really excited, we thought it might bring more pick up raids to our server. I doupt it will now. /cry</blockquote>I am going to lengthen the time between when he ports folks significantly in an upcoming hotfix.</blockquote>Thank you!

Remora

05-25-2010, 11:25 PM

The quest "Knocked out cold" is not updating when Vrewwx is killed hardmode

vinere

05-26-2010, 12:09 AM

The Frozen CorrivalIt keeps crashing 80% of our raid when it spawns the dopple.. Havnt had any issues up to now. Did it 3 pulls in a row.

Traldan Omegafyre

05-26-2010, 12:10 AM

The loot appears to be broken (or really, really worthless). Summoner shoulders from "Glacial Occultist Shoulders Pattern," for instance, only have 2.5% potency and no pet potency...when even t8 shard armor/woe armor had more potency and had some for the pet.

Traldan Omegafyre

05-26-2010, 12:11 AM

<cite>vinere wrote:</cite><blockquote>The Frozen CorrivalIt keeps crashing 80% of our raid when it spawns the dopple.. Havnt had any issues up to now. Did it 3 pulls in a row.</blockquote>Happened to us too. I missed out on the quest update. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

vinere

05-26-2010, 12:18 AM

<cite>Traldan Omegafyre wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>vinere wrote:</cite><blockquote>The Frozen CorrivalIt keeps crashing 80% of our raid when it spawns the dopple.. Havnt had any issues up to now. Did it 3 pulls in a row.</blockquote>Happened to us too. I missed out on the quest update. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>well we cant even kill it.. 6 of our healers crash at 75% everytime we pull.

Arno24

05-26-2010, 12:22 AM

Killing Vrewwx did not update quest

Gninja

05-26-2010, 12:24 AM

I will look into the Corrival and Vrewwx first thing in the morningOut of curiosity when the Corrival splits how many copies of himself spawn?

Traldan Omegafyre

05-26-2010, 12:49 AM

Uhh I guess it was 3, plus whoever had a copy of themselves up?

Gaige

05-26-2010, 12:55 AM

<cite>Traldan Omegafyre wrote:</cite><blockquote>The loot appears to be broken (or really, really worthless). </blockquote>The zone is a joke, what do you expect.

Traldan Omegafyre

05-26-2010, 01:14 AM

kiku

05-26-2010, 01:18 AM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Traldan Omegafyre wrote:</cite><blockquote>The loot appears to be broken (or really, really worthless). </blockquote>The zone is a joke, what do you expect.</blockquote>Loot is fine for an entry level zone. Just it needs to be toned down more for that group its intended.Basicly high end legendary gear with fable tag.

EQPrime

05-26-2010, 01:51 AM

I thought the zone was pretty well done. Most of the fights had at least some kind of script to figure out. I found most of the fights to be close in difficulty to the 3 easy tox mobs, the first 2 in labs, and the first mob in palace. The loot was generally a lot worse though. I think some of it should be slightly better, and the shoulders need a huge boost because they are horrible. Overall I think some of the loot needs a small boost to make it at least an alternative to the loot from the easy SF raid mobs.None of the fights were especially difficult, though a couple took us a few pulls to figure out. Nothing hits all that hard unless you do something wrong. You might want to tweak up the autoattack damage a tiny bit and maybe add a damaging AoE or two. (Please not the 3 aoe's about 8s apart that we see on almost every raid mob in the expansion though!) We ran out of time so we didn't do the last 2 nameds, so I can't really comment on them.We also got the same bracelet off like 4 or 5 trash mobs.

Barx

05-26-2010, 02:28 AM

Cleared up through the Corrival tonight before calling it a night. Few bits of feedback:We didn't have the kick/LD issue on Corrival, but we did see issues with him breaking. When the tank got knocked into the air it could break, and it also broke when he got a little over halfway across the chessboard. The leash range should be expanded a little bit, I can't see any reason why the mob should leash while still insdie his room. Also, not sure if it's intended or not, but the mechanic seemed to be the opposite of the heroic icy keep from last Frostfell, in terms of which clone to kill. Also, the "heart" buffs really need to be given priority so that they always show up first in a mob's target window effect display. (That goes for the turns-black spawn-pets buff on the Vig x2 guy as well; playing "hunt the buff" is just nonesense, if "immune to stun" type effects are magically always first and thingsl ike the Corrival's "Failure" buff always are listed first then things like the heart buff should also awlays be listed first).HP on the trash seemed a bit high for the intended difficulty of the zone. We still burned through it pretty quick, but I could see a guild just beginning their SF raiding (ie more the intendend audience for the zone) taking quite a while to clear through the zone because of all the trash. I think the trash in there had more HP than the trash in say Perah'Celsis's Abominable Laboratory, which seems goofy. Also, odd that some of the trash are rated x3 and even x2, thus giving some of them the 'no loot' icon. It's a full x4 raid zone, so it doesn't make much sense to me to have the mobs rated that way, especially when they definately have the hp of x4 trash. Seems like something that could potential confuse folks, so I would just mark 'em all x4 - maybe giving folks a few more random tokens per zone as well.Loot was pretty medicore. Some of the stuff was on par with T1, but some of it was just... mute+move on. I can see part of that being just risk-vs-reward (it is an easy zone; I think it's the first time ever I've seen a white raid mob on current tier content), but some of it seemed pretty crappy even for that.Beyond that, the only other annoyance I can think of is having to go all the way back out to the courtyard to update quests before you can procede (and that's not even counting the gloves quest, that one I understand since it was originaly intended to be completable only over multiple trips). Once you go out to update that quest you have to go all the way back in to pick up where you left off. It's minor, but it does break up the flow of the zone when you're doing the quests.

Barx

05-26-2010, 02:32 AM

<cite>Sydares wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>nope</blockquote>Then that was the most vague thing ever. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" />The levers tricked us into thinking we were missing something.</blockquote>Yeah, we thought the lever there was for that encounter at first as well. That fight seemed characteristically un-SF-like in that it didn't really have that blantant "You need to do X!" instruction. Which is fine (that's how most raidiing was pre-SF), but given that this is supposed to be a low-end raid zone for SF, a buff on the mobs that shows that they need to be separated might be useful for new raiders.

Hecula

05-26-2010, 02:41 AM

On the Ice Maiden fight - the last one before the dragon - there were some warping issues at the beginning where she is supposed to come down from her platform. She would sometimes be under the ground and occasionally she would spawn the shards under ground as well.

arksun

05-26-2010, 09:25 AM

As a raider the zone is something you do once to find out what it is all about, after that never return to it. The loot is so horrid, even if I was joining a PUG raid I would decline going in there and opt to do Vig X2 for loot that is on par with the harder X4 zones.I did like most of the encounters, thought the chess board one was kinda buggy.IMO 3/10 ....Seriously, even people in PUG's can get better loot from WoE with less time spent.

vinere

05-26-2010, 11:30 AM

<cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>I will look into the Corrival and Vrewwx first thing in the morningOut of curiosity when the Corrival splits how many copies of himself spawn?</blockquote>If i remember right we were getting 4 adds + dopple.. and as soon as it all poped, people would crash. 2 pulls we had over half the raid crash, and one pull we had 8 people crash, of coarse 5 of which were healers. I never crashed on any of the pulls, so not sure if its a buff issue or not. I am a gaurd.

Gninja

05-26-2010, 11:35 AM

Ok, I was concerned that maybe his script was firing off multiple times causing some people to drop. But if there are only 4 adds there has to be something deeper. I will be looking into it first thing this morning.

Undorett

05-26-2010, 11:55 AM

Odaufe and Kastus need some leeway added to them. POTM, Coercer mythical buff added to fighter taunts, and other procs were causing the fail condition. Also, the mem wipe when they are 1% apart from each other, due to one being brought down to the new plateau is a bit unfair, it should happen if they get say 5% apart from each other during the course of the fight at any time. The fight is doable, and the concept is fun, but casual/pickup raids are going to have some real trouble with this fight.The only other thing is, the loot is quite poor, worse than the original 3 zones loot on easy mode. I understand the zone is intended to be easy-moderate, but the loot from the original zones on easy mode is quite a bit better. I had assumed any armor dropping here would be the armor from the original zones, sadly no. The weapons seemed to be lower damage than what most easy mode mobs from other zones are dropping and the jewelry was also sub-par.If it cannot be upgraded, would it be possible to make those patterns or the items created from them transmuteable? I guess it goes for every pattern created item in the game, but the zone is cool, the scripts are cool, but there really isn't much there for an established raid team, but if we were able to transmute all of the loot to get manas it would be more worth running.

Wilderbeast25

05-26-2010, 12:30 PM

Gninja -First off I do completely understand that this is designed to be an "easy" zone. We were able to clear the "hard" mode version of it last night without and real issue. So while there may be a few issues with the scripts it certainly doesn't prevent the zone being cleared.Now I really do want to like this zone because I absolutely love areas like Everfrost and Permafrost and I of course like the zone look and feel because of those things, but the zone has no replay value for anyone but the most casual of raiding guilds and even they would be better served by going to the x2 or doing easy mode clears in the original 3 raid zones due to the issues with loot.The loot is very WoEish and once again I understand that it is an easy zone and risk/reward, but I still think it could be at least a little better.If nothing else I would suggest beefing up the dragon at the end and make it a real hard mode encounter and give it the corresponding loot updates. That would at least give people reasons to keep going back other than house items which I'm afraid higher-end guilds won't be going back for. The more casual guilds can still clear it on easy mode, but it will give a reason for others to go back as well.Thanks!

Ldarax

05-26-2010, 12:37 PM

<cite>Undorett wrote:</cite><blockquote>Odaufe and Kastus need some leeway added to them. POTM, Coercer mythical buff added to fighter taunts, and other procs were causing the fail condition. Also, the mem wipe when they are 1% apart from each other, due to one being brought down to the new plateau is a bit unfair, it should happen if they get say 5% apart from each other during the course of the fight at any time. The fight is doable, and the concept is fun, but casual/pickup raids are going to have some real trouble with this fight.</blockquote>That is odd, when we finaly found out how to do it we had them maybe 40% apart at most without any memwipes and Kastus got killed while Odaufe was still at 20% or so.I like the orginality (sp) of this fight.Never mind it was the wrong fight, i should not post stuff to early in the morning!

Undorett

05-26-2010, 12:46 PM

<cite>Ldarax wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Undorett wrote:</cite><blockquote>Odaufe and Kastus need some leeway added to them. POTM, Coercer mythical buff added to fighter taunts, and other procs were causing the fail condition. Also, the mem wipe when they are 1% apart from each other, due to one being brought down to the new plateau is a bit unfair, it should happen if they get say 5% apart from each other during the course of the fight at any time. The fight is doable, and the concept is fun, but casual/pickup raids are going to have some real trouble with this fight.</blockquote>That is odd, when we finaly found out how to do it we had them maybe 40% apart at most without any memwipes and Kastus got killed while Odaufe was still at 20% or so.I like the orginality (sp) of this fight.</blockquote>Um...was this on test? Because when you actually kill the mob, it has combined into 1 mob, you do not kill them separately.

mugn

05-26-2010, 12:51 PM

My biggest complaint was that the chess puzzle is solvable by moving the bishop on the 2nd move instead of the knight. However, if you take this approach you get the fail effect <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" />

Kringus

05-26-2010, 12:59 PM

<cite>mugn wrote:</cite><blockquote>My biggest complaint was that the chess puzzle is solvable by moving the bishop on the 2nd move instead of the knight. However, if you take this approach you get the fail effect <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>I had the same complaint. We moved the bishop to put the king in check, and it just caused everything to attack. IMO anything that keeps the king in check should be a valid move, up until the king gets loose, at which point he could call you names and spawn adds.I realize that you probably can't actually deal with all possible permutations- and that probably this was lifted from a book of "classic endgame problems" with a specific solution in mind- but the mechanics really should let you either play out the game until you fail (and then spawn everything) or more tightly control what good moves are available, by putting other spots that would let you put the king in check under some sort of threat so that black could respond by doing something other than moving his king.

Yimway

05-26-2010, 01:09 PM

I foolishly put my feedback in Zones and Population, but here it is again:Just starting a feedback thread on this new raid zone.We progressed about half the zone last night. All the fights were really, really easy, the only challenge was figuring out the scripts, but the mobs were so weak, you generally could figure out the scripts without even dieing to failures. Once you figured out the basic scripts, everything just falls down and dies. I honestly believe our swash could trivially MT this zone the stuff is so squishy.Keep in mind, I'm not in a hardcore guild, we're not killing any HM encounters atm, and our gear reflects it.The mobs were all way too easy, and the loot reflected it. Server discovery pieces that not even alts of alts needed, just straight to transmute fodder.I know I read the targeted difficulty was easy Tox, but you failed to even reach that difficulty in the first 5 named, and the loot is significantly behind the quality of easy tox. In fact the loot is well behind heroic instances.Now, beyond the easy kills and crappy loot, here is some additional feedback:1) Universally of the 24 people zoned in: Doing quests as a raid sucks, its not fun. WoE was fine as the quest was basically work the zone. Icy Keep had points where 24 people are running around in circles trying to fiqure out how to progress a quest.2) Captain / Lieutenant fight really doesn't have any feedback from the encounter to solve the script. In fact the items in the room only serve to confuse the issue.3) Getting 24 people to zip it for a minute to solve chess solution was, um annoying, but some folks thought it was cool, while others went afk to find something else to do. I'm sure with the solution posted on forums, the annoyance related will drop to nill.4) The Frozen Corrival - There is a client crash bug when he splits. About half the raid goes LD when it happens. His script itself isn't difficult, and we understand exactly how to kill him. What we don't understand is how to keep the eq2 client from crashing to finish the fight. I'm assuming it's a spell effect animation, and we'll experiment with client settings to mitigate the client crash.All in all though, the pattern gear is meh, the loot off the nameds are meh, and 24 people in my opinion are better off running heroic instances for progression than doing this zone.Note: there are neck drop items with 6 and 2.5 potency dropping where treasured quest items have better stats.

Yimway

05-26-2010, 01:16 PM

<cite>Kringus wrote:</cite><blockquote>I realize that you probably can't actually deal with all possible permutations- and that probably this was lifted from a book of "classic endgame problems" with a specific solution in mind- but the mechanics really should let you either play out the game until you fail (and then spawn everything) or more tightly control what good moves are available, by putting other spots that would let you put the king in check under some sort of threat so that black could respond by doing something other than moving his king.</blockquote>The challenge was specifically to solve in 3 moves.

Mythal_EQ2

05-26-2010, 01:16 PM

Two issues with the zone:1) The twins: Someone said that there is a way to avoid the constant memwipes before they merge. Perhaps that is so, but it is flaky at best. Several times during the fight we had them running around trying to kill people for a good minute before they decided to merge. Seemed to smooth out in the last 30% but still, was annoying.2) My main issue: There will be virtually no repeatability for this zone. People may do it once or twice, to get everyone their quest completions and AAs, but that's it. The problem is that the zone does not offer any reward that's worthwhile. Even easy-mode loot (from fights which are on-par with Icy Keep's difficulty, if not easier) is significantly better and quicker to get for first-time raiders.Yes, the zone is very light on (does it even have any?) AEs, so first-timers will not have a hard time if their resists are low. Other than that, it's straight-forward once the strategy for the few encounters that may seem tricky at first is found. At the same time, instead of spending 3 hours doing this zone, a really, really casual raid force could clear Toxxulia (easy mode) in 30-45 minutes, Labs (perhaps skipping the crab if they're really that casual) up to (or even including) Xilaxis in an hour and a half, and kill up to the twins (easy) in Palace, getting 3x the loot and 10x the quality in about 30-45 minutes./shrugMy 2c.

EQPrime

05-26-2010, 01:21 PM

Haha yeah we moved the bishop and wiped.Few other things that popped up (some of these have been mentioned before):We had an issue where our tank got knocked in the air and Corrival broke. His leash range seems pretty short.There really weren't any hints on what to do with the 2 nameds that have to be split.The x2 trash mobs have no loot symbols and seem to have a lot of hp for x2's. I don't see why they shouldn't be x4 instead, or at least be able to drop loot.It would be nice if the quest npc(s) were more accessible since you need to talk to him from time to time. Not sure the best way to do this and keep the storyline going, but it's somewhat tedious as it is now.The loot is just not good enough to justify the time spent clearing the zone. I think the stats on the armor items need to be closer to SF T1 gear. The stats on the jewelry items need to be closer to what you can get in the Vigilant x2. Some items seemed ok, others needed a tiny bump, and a few were just terrible.

Gninja

05-26-2010, 01:28 PM

Barx

05-26-2010, 01:29 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kringus wrote:</cite><blockquote>I realize that you probably can't actually deal with all possible permutations- and that probably this was lifted from a book of "classic endgame problems" with a specific solution in mind- but the mechanics really should let you either play out the game until you fail (and then spawn everything) or more tightly control what good moves are available, by putting other spots that would let you put the king in check under some sort of threat so that black could respond by doing something other than moving his king.</blockquote>The challenge was specifically to solve in 3 moves.</blockquote>Not just that, but IIRC when we looked at it last night, moving the bishop to put the king in check on the second move does not set you up for a checkmate on the third. It makes sense to me that it would attack then, because you have at that point failed the challenge. (EDIT: Bah, look, sniped by Gninja <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )It would be nice to see the Corrival's "dark" ice pieces actually appear blackish however. There's some broken ones off to the side that are black, but on the actual board you have to look at the names since most of them look alike. It took us 5-10 minutes before we realized the one rook in the back left corner (when facing the Corrival) was actually our piece.

Kringus

05-26-2010, 01:47 PM

<cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>mugn wrote:</cite><blockquote>My biggest complaint was that the chess puzzle is solvable by moving the bishop on the 2nd move instead of the knight. However, if you take this approach you get the fail effect <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Actually, while moving the bishop does put the king in check it does not put him in checkmate and it also leaves him multiple ways to move away from being in check which doesnt allow you to beat him in 3 moves like the Corrival states at the beginning <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Sorry, I should be clear- I am giving feedback on the "feel" of this encounter, not whether it meets the letter of the law. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />When you move the second piece, and it is not the second piece intended to be moved, the fail condition is met. IMO this is not right- instead the fail condition should occur when you move a third piece and checkmate is not achieved. This makes the puzzle MORE challenging, since you have to move at least three pieces before you know if you fail- as is, if you move the wrong piece at any time you know immediately that it was wrong. That's a switchthrowing process of elimination, not chess.It would have been really cool to play the game from the start <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> as a hard mode option.

Gninja

05-26-2010, 01:52 PM

Due to limitations I wasnt able to have the entire match or have it not check till the 3rd piece was moved. My initial intentions were for the game to be more robust, unfortunately it just didn't work out.

Kringus

05-26-2010, 02:35 PM

<cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>Due to limitations I wasnt able to have the entire match or have it not check till the 3rd piece was moved. My initial intentions were for the game to be more robust, unfortunately it just didn't work out.</blockquote>Well the board room was impressive- I think everyone who was old enough immediately flashed to Archon and/or Battlechess. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And the end result once the name died was fun too.

Andy0125

05-26-2010, 06:00 PM

We had the same issue with the chessboard boss crashing over half our raid (including our MT and healers) every time he split. Also, besides a few of the weapons, we didn't really see anything as an upgrade for anyone even as a relatively casual guild, but obviously we haven't seen everything..Otherwise, awesome zone <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Geothe

05-26-2010, 06:20 PM

Gave up last night after multiple crashes, many times over, on the Chess Board encounter.Loot up to that point was a couple joke... I wouldn't of taken any of it LAST expansion.

kiku

05-26-2010, 09:13 PM

They should tone the mobs in this zone down, make it a x2. There then it would be a WoE type zone with rewards conductive to the challenge.x4 easy mode is honestly a bad idea. 12 person pick up raid is much easier to get going and to get the classes ya need that was another reason WoE was so popular.

Flobdeth

05-26-2010, 09:37 PM

Corrival crashed most of us every pull on splits, was dying to get to debitino too <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" />Loot, not too bad for the difficulty, some of could maybe do with a slight tweak

Kunaak

05-26-2010, 11:27 PM

every piece of loot in this zone should just be wiped off your database, and redone.maybe keep vrewwx loot. but other then that....start over, its so bad, theres nothing worth salvaging. its not even on par with easy mode tox loot.this zone should be retierd to a X2 or flat out redone.its really really bad.

thecynic315

05-26-2010, 11:41 PM

On the chess fight, if your particals are turned down you cant see peices/namedAlso had 1/2 the raid crash when we pulled named on 5/26 10:40pm EDT and again at 10:46pm EDT and again at 11:01.Also when he splits at 75% I cant see him anymore

Sinaya

05-27-2010, 12:38 AM

My room mate was having a really strange bug where when she was in the zone, all of our raid members and attackable npcs appeared to be waiting at the zone entrance. She could not progress past the chimney without falling through the zone. Although she could move and explore other areas, to the rest of us she appeared to be running in place back at the zone entrance.Could not resolve in-game by camping our or re-zoning. This is the first time it has happened for her. Trying a full-file scan.

Laenai

05-27-2010, 12:44 AM

Oh crap. I have to know chess?*headdesk*

Maergoth

05-27-2010, 12:57 AM

For everyone saying the loot is terrible, duh.They should have made it a little more clear that the zone was a waste of time for high end guilds, or had a reason beyond AA for running it at least once. A "flawless charm" type raidwide reward for one slot would have been nice, so you don't have to run it repeatedly for one or two decent items.The zone is easy. Easier than Vigilant x2.The loot is bad. Worse than the vigilant x2.I see no problem with those two statements.. more people should mean you get MORE loot, not better loot.You can take a group capable of clearing the x2 and get through most of this new zone guaranteed.That being said, it was one of the most fun zones to run through the first time that I have done. Figuring some of those fights out provided a very triumphant feeling, even if the loot didn't support it. This zone would do well to have some shiny collections or something in it, it would fit the atmosphere well.Looking forward to Underfoot Depths.

Sinaya

05-27-2010, 02:12 AM

Half of our raid force also crashed on the Corrival fight.

Carthr

05-27-2010, 03:02 AM

<cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>For everyone saying the loot is terrible, duh.</blockquote>Yeah, but the loot should be on par with WoE loot from the previous tier(that is not being 1 grouped by PuG's)..But other than the loot, I have just one single request.. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make a respawn point from Vrewwx's room somewhere closer! Like in the Ice Maiden's room(that would be perfect).. If someone slid off, or there was a wipe it was literally 5-10minutes for people to figure out which way to go to get back into Vrewwx's Lair...

Lader

05-27-2010, 03:38 AM

we probably didnt do odaufe/kastus right and muscled through but my feedback on that fight is that it was absolutely horrible. at 75%, kastus would heal up to the 80's, then the 2 would go nuts on memwipes, tanks couldnt keep it at all. they would fuse, we'd make them separate, and they did it again. had to pop a bot in the middle bc of the rediculous number of deaths people had.also, making us wait forever while people flip switches is idiotic. 20 minutes standing there while people ran around the zone hitting switches, then we had to flip them all at once again.i was expecting something hard for ice maiden based on what id read in testing feedback, but she was very easy. we burned 2 statues, and just kept doing dps on her and the little ice guys. we didnt need 20k hps on the tank like i had read, even when we had 3 golems up. iw ould say she is tuned pretty well for its intended audience.hard vrewwx is the only thing that woke me up, and only bc its timed. ae's hardly did any damage. will provide a decent challenge for early raiders needing to up their dps.im glad to say we wont be going back into this zone. some encounters were interesting and offer a nice change of pace, but theres too much trash with too much hp, and having to go back and forth for the quests is horrible.the aa was nice though <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" />

Winstonichi

05-27-2010, 05:41 AM

I am embarassed for the people that struggled through this zone.. We cleared it in day 1 including the hard encounter at the end. The zone was great, and i think the whole zone is easy enough for people that are casual and do not raid much, hell a decent PUG raid could clear this whole zone. The quests/switches/locks were not difficult to find out, the strategies only took 1-2 attempts to really figure out, the zone was pretty, and a lot of encounters were unique.For our guild, we'll 2 group it to vrrewx on a weekend, then clear him first thing on the start of our raid week, his hard mode loot is pretty nice (atleast what ive seen for healers and scouts).This is a great zone, allows people to get the feel of raiding, and to farm some ehh/decent pieces of loot.(Make a respawn point closer to vrrewx? maybe just have someone fd...)

Gninja

05-27-2010, 11:34 AM

<cite>Carthrax wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>For everyone saying the loot is terrible, duh.</blockquote>Yeah, but the loot should be on par with WoE loot from the previous tier(that is not being 1 grouped by PuG's)..But other than the loot, I have just one single request.. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make a respawn point from Vrewwx's room somewhere closer! Like in the Ice Maiden's room(that would be perfect).. If someone slid off, or there was a wipe it was literally 5-10minutes for people to figure out which way to go to get back into Vrewwx's Lair...</blockquote>You know once Ice Maiden D'Ina is killed you can just open the front doors and walk straight to the dragon right? :p

FimisOrbe

05-27-2010, 11:44 AM

<cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Carthrax wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>For everyone saying the loot is terrible, duh.</blockquote>Yeah, but the loot should be on par with WoE loot from the previous tier(that is not being 1 grouped by PuG's)..But other than the loot, I have just one single request.. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make a respawn point from Vrewwx's room somewhere closer! Like in the Ice Maiden's room(that would be perfect).. If someone slid off, or there was a wipe it was literally 5-10minutes for people to figure out which way to go to get back into Vrewwx's Lair...</blockquote>You know once Ice Maiden D'Ina is killed you can just open the front doors and walk straight to the dragon right? :p</blockquote>That was broken for us, we weren't able to open the Door after she was dead.

Aest

05-27-2010, 12:06 PM

<cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Carthrax wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>For everyone saying the loot is terrible, duh.</blockquote>Yeah, but the loot should be on par with WoE loot from the previous tier(that is not being 1 grouped by PuG's)..But other than the loot, I have just one single request.. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make a respawn point from Vrewwx's room somewhere closer! Like in the Ice Maiden's room(that would be perfect).. If someone slid off, or there was a wipe it was literally 5-10minutes for people to figure out which way to go to get back into Vrewwx's Lair...</blockquote>You know once Ice Maiden D'Ina is killed you can just open the front doors and walk straight to the dragon right? :p</blockquote>You know the revive spot is in the Lt. Quarters, right? :p(As in, it's nowhere near the entrance)

Gninja

05-27-2010, 12:13 PM

Ah... Yeah thats a bug I will correct it! Sorry about that <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Remora

05-27-2010, 01:45 PM

<cite>FimisOrbe wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Carthrax wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>For everyone saying the loot is terrible, duh.</blockquote>Yeah, but the loot should be on par with WoE loot from the previous tier(that is not being 1 grouped by PuG's)..But other than the loot, I have just one single request.. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make a respawn point from Vrewwx's room somewhere closer! Like in the Ice Maiden's room(that would be perfect).. If someone slid off, or there was a wipe it was literally 5-10minutes for people to figure out which way to go to get back into Vrewwx's Lair...</blockquote>You know once Ice Maiden D'Ina is killed you can just open the front doors and walk straight to the dragon right? :p</blockquote>That was broken for us, we weren't able to open the Door after she was dead.</blockquote>You might want to play around with the levers then....

Remora

05-27-2010, 01:50 PM

<cite>Lader wrote:</cite><blockquote>hard vrewwx is the only thing that woke me up, and only bc its timed. ae's hardly did any damage. will provide a decent challenge for early raiders needing to up their dps.</blockquote>Vrewwx is not a timed fight if you use the buffs in the room.

Bremer

05-27-2010, 06:08 PM

We made a few pulls on Vrewwx and in one there were 4 epic yeti adds, that didn't despawn after the encounter resetted. The movie sequence every time you trigger the guy is really annoying. It always feels like your game crashed, when a movie sequence starts and seeing a sequence over and over again is really tedious. And concerning the zone. What everyone said, takes too long, loot is too bad. I would suggest to dump down the normal named (except boss) to x2 and reduce their HP to make most of the zone doable for a pickup x2, with one or two harder nameds. And the quest reward should allow you to open the front gate, so a x4 raid can directly go to the boss and kill him.

Sydares

05-27-2010, 06:18 PM

This entire patch seems to be:YO DAWG, WE HERD YOU LIKE TRASH!

Maergoth

05-27-2010, 06:23 PM

People wanted a zone to parse on, and this one works great. Trash has a decent amount of HP but very little avoidance.. most named are just burn fights (The others easily omitted)..I had fun, that's all that matters <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Morghus

05-27-2010, 06:24 PM

Definitely needs a Trak style teleport to Vrewxx once you've beaten the zone.

lollipop

05-27-2010, 06:53 PM

<cite>Bremer wrote:</cite><blockquote>We made a few pulls on Vrewwx and in one there were 4 epic yeti adds, that didn't despawn after the encounter resetted. The movie sequence every time you trigger the guy is really annoying. It always feels like your game crashed, when a movie sequence starts and seeing a sequence over and over again is really tedious. And concerning the zone. What everyone said, takes too long, loot is too bad. I would suggest to dump down the normal named (except boss) to x2 and reduce their HP to make most of the zone doable for a pickup x2, with one or two harder nameds. And the quest reward should allow you to open the front gate, so a x4 raid can directly go to the boss and kill him.</blockquote>+1

Gninja

05-27-2010, 06:58 PM

I am not too keen on the idea of bypassing everything in the zone and just jumping to the zone boss. Just doesnt sit well with me. Sorry.

Lader

05-27-2010, 07:08 PM

then i guess youre ok with most people running your zone once, bc the best part about the zone was the AA, with the exception of vrewwx. I know we wont be going back in bc the rest of the zone is so annoying.

lollipop

05-27-2010, 07:09 PM

Gaige

05-27-2010, 07:12 PM

<cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am not too keen on the idea of bypassing everything in the zone and just jumping to the zone boss. Just doesnt sit well with me. Sorry.</blockquote>You should be keen about it because without it I don't see the zone getting much use. The only thing in there worth killing for most guilds is Vrewwx, if you could go straight to it it'd be like Zarrakon or Trakanon or whatever. Doing the whole zone though? No thanks. Not when there are 5 other instances and 2 contested to worry about. Especially guilds like mine that only raid 4 days a week.

lollipop

05-27-2010, 07:14 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am not too keen on the idea of bypassing everything in the zone and just jumping to the zone boss. Just doesnt sit well with me. Sorry.</blockquote>You should be keen about it because without it I don't see the zone getting much use. The only thing in there worth killing for most guilds is Vrewwx, if you could go straight to it it'd be like Zarrakon or Trakanon or whatever. Doing the whole zone though? No thanks. Not when there are 5 other instances and 2 contested to worry about. Especially guilds like mine that only raid 4 days a week.</blockquote>why I think it would be better as a x2. Guilds that raid could do it on offnights with alts. PUG would do it alot more since they would only need 12 people. Small family guilds that might only have 15 or so people could plan nights around it. And lets face it the loot sucks it would be in line for an easy x2.

Xavianna

05-27-2010, 07:32 PM

Killing Vrewwx Icyheart did not update the quest. Sorry if this had been posted already.

Gninja

05-27-2010, 07:48 PM

Killing the challenge mode version should update the quest after next update

Barx

05-27-2010, 11:40 PM

Did the twins fight tonight... way out of line for the difficulty of the zone. The mobs are easy during the burn to 76/51/26, but in that last percent the memwipe is just ludicrous. Also, in the last 25% we were seeing loads of memwipe with a "You think you can burn us down one by one" message even though the mobs HP were within 1%, that seems buggy.We killed it, but it was pretty ridiculous given the level of difficulty of the zone (and the quality of the loot...)

Sydares

05-28-2010, 12:39 AM

Alright, having done the zone in its completion, I have to agree with several of the above posters - after we've run through the raid zone once (or if you're feeling sadistic, a few times) there should be a way to simply open the door and hop right to D'ina and Vrewxx. It's a massive zone full of loot that nobody really cares about until the very last encounters, and it's stuffed to the brim with trash.There should absolutely be a quest to kill D'ina or Vrewxx which awards you with the means of unlocking the last door. That way, people with already busy raid schedules don't need to try to justify an entire evening of raiding on clearing unwanted targets for unwanted transmutation fodder.There's not enough time in most raid schedules to justify the long clear to Vrewxx, so essentially all you're doing is assuring that no raids will bother to come back after the first time through to get kills on the board.New Quest:Kill D'ina or VrewxxReward: Something to explode or open the front door.Otherwise, there's almost no way we're going to be running this zone a second time.

Yimway

05-28-2010, 01:24 AM

Went back to the zone tonight.The following stopped the LD's in chess room:1) Particles to 0 to preven animation.2) Turned off Log fileAfter that no LD's whatsoever. *shrug*We got to Odaufe and Kastus, and we understand the fight, but they were getting to 75% (yes both at 75%) then just running a constant aggro wipe. We kept dpsing them for 2 mins of agro wipe madness and they never combined. My expectation is when they are both 75% they should combine and advance the script.Oh, when it bugged out on us, we had no emotes, just agro wipeage.To be honest, that fight is going to be pretty tough for casual types.

TheGeneral

05-28-2010, 01:34 AM

I LoL'ed at the yeti sliding all around the room and still attacking people with his face in the dirt.

Phelon_Skellhound

05-28-2010, 01:47 AM

The twins is kind of a pita... when we get them to 77/76 they rampage with memwipes making it nearly impossible to get them to combine.... the one time we got them to combine - we know how to split em - too many folks dead from him to recover after we did split them....This fight is stopping even the mid tier and higher raid guilds with T1/T2 equiped gear lol

Galthren

05-28-2010, 02:05 AM

After going through the zone for the first time ever, I have no plans of going through it again... ever.The only good thing about this zone is Vreewx, and you have to go through an entire zone that may take 2 hours tops just to get some loot out of the Hard Version of the last mob of the zone. Because nothing else in the zone, not even alts are interested in getting. We got tonight like 6 Distilled manas and destroyed all the patterns we picked up.I recommend to have a quest for this zone much like Veeshan's Peak. Force each member of the raid go through the whole zone with a quest they need to finish, and after you kill the Maiden before Vreewx, you complete the quest and you can now go directly to Vreewx and not have to worry about the rest of the useless zone.Another recommendation is to have every boss in the zone have a hard-mode with better loot, that way can enjoy the zone and get better gear out of it.This zone really had some potential, but with how easy the zone is, and how terrible the loot is; I don't think it's worth going through all the trouble of doing the whole zone unless you really need some Distilled Manas for adorns.

Sinaya

05-28-2010, 02:10 AM

Overall I think it's a nice zone for learning how to raid, since there's a bunch of interesting scripts.The x2 trash with a ton of hitpoints was very annoying though, especially since it couldn't drop any loot.I did particularly like the connection to the Frostfell event.

TheGeneral

05-28-2010, 10:33 AM

The x2 trash borks by being more than just annoying, but because they are automatically broken encounters, you cannot get any of the quest updates. It also made no sense to me that some of the x2 trash had more hp than the x4. The Corival <sp> also pulled his awesome encounter reset on us after being at about 25% with over half the raid gone from being crashed to desktop by him. I like the zone, but the bugs need to be fixed and the loot needs to be tweaked.

Gharyn

05-28-2010, 10:57 AM

I don't know which is more disappointing, the fact that they recycled Permafrost and called it a 'new' zone, or the fact that no one is complaining about it.

Yimway

05-28-2010, 11:04 AM

<cite>Gharyn wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't know which is more disappointing, the fact that they recycled Permafrost and called it a 'new' zone, or the fact that no one is complaining about it. </blockquote>*shrug*Raid zones to *require* new zone art. There are new elements to the zone, and it continues a storyline created in the earlier frostfell adaptation of that zone.For raiders, generally we're just happy to have new content / scripts. Artwork is nice, but you have to expect artists to be busy with next xpac zone/art design at this point in their dev cycle.New zones are yay, even when they have little repeatability.

EQPrime

05-28-2010, 11:20 AM

Almost every raid zone is just a recycled version of another zone. I'd rather they re-use an existing zone layout than take two or three times longer to release anything.

Sydares

05-28-2010, 01:29 PM

The lack of zone art doesn't particularly bother me, mostly the long clear time to Vrewwx - quite prohibitive for folks on a tight raid schedule.

Faith_heals

05-28-2010, 01:34 PM

just tone it down and make it a x2 already. Thats what people wanted. A WoE for this xpac. Way to much trash. Lower thier hp or reduce em.

slippery

05-28-2010, 01:52 PM

Honestly, there is probably nothing you can do to make me bring my guild back to this zone. Even if we could just to straight to the dragon, this would be the last zone on the list for me, and even then I'd probably just give people the time off. If the zone was a lot faster, I'd consider it. But as it is most of the scripts are just annoying (and you completely ignore them). 2-3 hours, for what exactly? No thanks. Don't take it personally, people aren't attacking you for the zone, you just got what people are looking for wrong. This is the kind of zone that might have been better accepted at launch of the expansion, not 3 months in.

Noob1974

05-28-2010, 02:40 PM

RF was in there Wednesday and i only can say what others stated before, a x 4 zone for casuals is a bad idea. A x2 its much easier to organise for smaller guilds than a x4 zone. Tone down this zone, to a x2 zone T9 WOE Raidzone, and you might have a winner.On my server ppl form casual x 4 RFs for Toxx easy and Labs till harakat an no one can blame them todo those zones over icy keep.

Barx

05-28-2010, 02:46 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gharyn wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't know which is more disappointing, the fact that they recycled Permafrost and called it a 'new' zone, or the fact that no one is complaining about it. </blockquote>*shrug*Raid zones to *require* new zone art. There are new elements to the zone, and it continues a storyline created in the earlier frostfell adaptation of that zone.For raiders, generally we're just happy to have new content / scripts. Artwork is nice, but you have to expect artists to be busy with next xpac zone/art design at this point in their dev cycle.New zones are yay, even when they have little repeatability.</blockquote>The funny thing is, this isn't a total recycle like most other raid zones are. The outside of the zone is the same, as is the general art assets, but the inner layout is almost completely redone.I kind of take the same stance though: new art is nice and always appreciated, but reusing old art to make more zones also makes sense. I think this zone kind of strikes a nice balance between the two; heck even Palace of Roehn Theer has new art to an extent, since the Theer room is not accessable / used in the heroic version.

Kunaak

05-28-2010, 04:40 PM

<cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am not too keen on the idea of bypassing everything in the zone and just jumping to the zone boss. Just doesnt sit well with me. Sorry.</blockquote>then PLEASE - put hard mode versions of these encounters in the zones.what is there 9 names in there, and you can bypass 4 so you have to kill 4-5 to get to the last boss right?so take those 4-5 and give them hard mode versions.as a raider, far above the gear level of this zone, I cant see ever getting back in there, cause the loot, and time required do not justify going back. but alot of us would have loved to have seen this zone alittle more versatile, cause as it is, it only now caters to guilds that, basically have never raided before, and need a zone with almost no difficulty. in the end, all this does is insure the zones dead.

lollipop

05-29-2010, 02:25 AM

<cite>Noob1974 wrote:</cite><blockquote>RF was in there Wednesday and i only can say what others stated before, a x 4 zone for casuals is a bad idea. A x2 its much easier to organise for smaller guilds than a x4 zone. Tone down this zone, to a x2 zone T9 WOE Raidzone, and you might have a winner.On my server ppl form casual x 4 RFs for Toxx easy and Labs till harakat an no one can blame them todo those zones over icy keep.</blockquote>Exacly

Tehom

05-29-2010, 03:53 AM

The general consensus the folks I raid with is that despite how fun the fights are and the fairly decent rewards off Vrewwx, that even the abbreviated clearing to go straight to him wouldn't be worth the time compared to other things we could focus on. I'd ask you to please reconsider your position on letting people go straight to the zone boss provided we've beaten the challenge mode before, since I really would just enjoy doing that fight every few days.A possible compromise might be a tradable item that can drop off other bosses in the zone that'd enable you to skip to the challenge mode if you meet other conditions (such as having beaten him before), which would allow guilds that farm the entire zone at their level of progression to broker/sell the ability to go straight to the zone boss, or to allow you to skip to the boss a few times per every full clear you do.

Sydares

05-30-2010, 01:57 AM

When it comes right down to it, it's irritating to have placed a somewhat desirable raid target behind a wall of trash and encounters that are of absolutely no use to the players capable of killing said target. If Vrewwx had his own instance, I doubt you would be seeing complaints.

Muston

05-31-2010, 09:09 AM

Here is some feedback from a raid that should be pretty close to the aimed target group.We are a family type guild that raids 1-2 times per week. We raid with the people who sign up for that raid so our setup is not optimal. We have extra fighters and we don't have enough bards/enchanters in the raid. That means our dps is usually pretty low. We are currently farming the three mobs from easy tox and two mobs from labs. Killing those five mobs takes us usually about two hours.We cleared the zone up to chess board fight. We pulled that named once, got few lds and called the night. Nameds up to that point seemed ok. They were easily doable after we learned what to do.Loot was kind of ... well ... dull. None of the pieces caused big hurrays or bidding wars in the crowd but we didn't mute any of the pieces and all went to mains. So loot needs a small boost overall to be comperable to tox/labs but it's not that far off what others have said in my opinion.The biggest problem I had with the zone is trash. First of all x2 trash that can't drop anything and has as much hp as x4 trash have to be a bug. Also in general the trash has a lot of hp. Specially for the aimed raid that has not so optimal setup and a bit low dps. Trash in the zone is not hard. It hardly hits back at all. It just takes ages to kill.At the current form it will take us two nights to clear the place. Both of those nights will probably be longer than our current farm nights. I'm not sure if we really want to skip two nights of good (for us) loot from tox/labs just to do this zone. That is 1-2 weeks without those places for us.So fix that broken x2 trash, lower the trash hp some and boost the loot slightly and we might have a decent zone for our raid force.

Leovinus

05-31-2010, 10:48 AM

Okay, we may not have gotten it completely right, but the Ice golem twins' encounter requires far too much coordination to the point where it just seems buggy, especially for the tartet audience. Also on the Ice maiden fight, you went way too far in the other direction with the statues. With a flat burn, our guild could probably do all 4, but we weren't able to make it consistently enough, so we were just going to a 3 burn and OT one add till the next round approach, and even then we got an extra one once. We would have needed another 3-5 seconds to do it consistently. For the record, we're a guild that kills all easy and a HM or two (IE we're probably well above the level of the target raid). When paying attention to feedback, I think you need to consider where your feedback is coming from, because I get the feeling it was not coming from your target audience. Oh, and for a lot of people, many of the white (x2) adds were falling through the floor and becoming untargettable.

taybrienyoyo

05-31-2010, 12:19 PM

Trash only had 8-10million HP per kill when this was on test 2/3 weeks ago. Went in the other night and noticed trash is sporting 16-20 million now. Needless to say we wont go back till trash hp is lowered alot. With our non optimal raid setup being a casual raid guild, it takes too long moving around the zone from named to named. I hope this can be changed in the future. :/

Gninja

05-31-2010, 12:45 PM

The trash shouldnt have that much hp. I will be adjusting it this week. I will also try to fix the broken trash encounters so they can drop loot.

Barx

05-31-2010, 03:17 PM

<cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>The trash shouldnt have that much hp. I will be adjusting it this week. I will also try to fix the broken trash encounters so they can drop loot.</blockquote><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /> That will go a good bit to making the zone more reasonable to run. Among other things, the loot could still use tweaking, but not having to druge through reams of high-HP no-loot trash will at least let folks get to the more interesting fights quicker.

vinere

06-01-2010, 11:41 PM

Crash bug on Carival is not fixed... And its something strange.. I didnt LD once last week when we pulled it 4+ times, and i LD'd every pull this time.. its anoyig.... very anoying.

lakatus

06-02-2010, 07:13 AM

two thirds of our raid crashed on corrival

Rocc

06-02-2010, 08:54 AM

Snowbeast statue still wont die....We killed him 100 different ways and that lil bastage just wont die. We've eliminated every possible scenario with the adds, pull locations, dps, you name it. Please fix him! For all the effort we have into this ONE mob he better drop like T20 gear and 2 masters for every member of the raid!!!!!I should note that we have a previous version before yesterdays patch went thru. Should we reset the zone? We just bypassed him but we were pretty upset. We even had two other guilds that have beat the encounter tell us the strat we were already trying. They also wondered why he wouldnt die. So it was not how we were killing him, methinks he's still not received the "memo".

Yimway

06-02-2010, 11:17 AM

The adds can not beat on the same tank, or he gets up and heals.Since he doesn't stay rooted when he's laying on the ground, we kept a 3rd tank on him just to keep him away from the fray.We seperate the adds for good measure like the blob fight in DT, but I'm sure thats not actually required, just safety in case a tank uses an ae positional or something.

Truffor

06-02-2010, 07:24 PM

Hope you didn't put too much heart making this zone, cause loots are so weak compared to the BS made on some mobs (Odaufe+Kastus memwipes @ 10% after a so long and boring fight). you can be sure I won't ever come back there again.A New WoE for T9 ? hahaha... *throws something by the window*

lollipop

06-02-2010, 08:20 PM

yeah this zone is fail =/. I had high hopes for another WoE. But making it a x4 and add the massive scripting coupled with the less the legendary loot. No way.

Maergoth

06-02-2010, 09:05 PM

Making the zone an X2 would make the zone HARDER and the loot would be even worse risk v reward. Doing the same task with fewer people does not justify or correct bad loot.Just boost the loot.. or add a flawless charm type drop for the zone or something

Darkonx

06-03-2010, 04:18 AM

The zone is way harder than WOE, for mindblowingly bad loot.

Telbain

06-06-2010, 12:39 AM

I can understand how any guild that has already progressed in the expansion might not like Icy Keep from a rewards perspective. That aside, I actually have some positive things to say about it.If you're in a sup-24 member guild the zone is a great starting point to gear up a bit. This is especially true due to the fact that the x2 zone is more of a Kurns than a WOE.The encounters are actually pretty enjoyable. You can certainly overwhelm them with DPS but the scripts are entertaining. We like that fact that most let someone be a hero instead of just punishing the person who didn't move to the blue square in time. Great job there.Some of the loot decisions were a bit confusing. Some pieces seem to be right in line while others seem to be a bit anemic. Just as an example, the Pendant of the Ice Drake Eye generally has the same stats as a basic legendary chocker. It also features less potency. That is just something odd.The trash mobs do have an unnecessary amount of hit points. They aren't really dangerous but this adds some tedium to the clear. I know this has already been mentioned as something that will change.The 90 tier needed an entry level raid zone and I think that has been well achieved. We've enjoyed our experiences there.

lollipop

06-06-2010, 05:20 AM

Frozen statue of the snowbeast.Adds hit way to hard and to many hp. Also 4 times are you kidding me. We did it but we have alot better gear then most going in there. Please look into it

Gninja

06-06-2010, 11:44 AM

I have seen a group of folks with entry to raid level gear completely obliterate the statue of the snowbeast. It is all about finding the correct mechanic and executing. I will keep an eye on how the adds hit but the script is working correctly.

Ristan

06-06-2010, 12:18 PM

We did this zone for the first time Friday & Sat. My guidl is a casual guild that raids every weekend, sometimes we have a full raid, but most time we are 2-4 people short. We are able to clear easy mode dragon lair (no tox), first 3 named in labs and first named in palace, to give you an idea of where we are. Most of our raid has some t4, some t3 from TSO. Some have the SF easymode armor and a smattering of SF legendary/fabled.My over all impressions, it's a good zone, I like it, however a few things.1. First named: Hoarfrost: Those eggs some times were spawning 2-3 adds on us. When the port happened at 10% chaos ensued, since we ended up with a dozen or more adds everywhere. it was a matter of just zerging the named before the adds over whelmed us. If the eggs were only spawning 1 named per egg, it might be alittle less chaotic. I'm all for adds, but to me chaos does not = fun. Either make it so its 1 add per egg, or decrease the respawn on the eggs, or decrease the amount of eggs in the area.NOTE: autoattack is not working while submerged in water (this happens in other zones too). If we pulled him to one of the pools autoatack would not work for anyone, decreasing our DPS by a chunk. This has been the case since the last game update.2. 2nd named: Ice maiden: this was a good fight, it took us 2 pulls and after I gave our OT more healers to hold the adds we did fine.NOTE: our warlock was stating that his blue AOEs were not hitting the adds.3. 3rd named: Captain/Lieutenet: This was a fun fight. Didn't have any issues.4. 4th named: Snowbeast statue: This was also a fun fight, I knew there was a trick with the adds, but I mis understood the hints in this forum. We got him to 0, and he floped, and we got adds. Took us about 8 rounds to figure out you have to tank the adds separately <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />. After we figured that out, we had a brawler on one, pally on another on the first round. They do not hit too hard, our brawler was fine with 2 healers. We only had to fight 2 rounds of adds (2 adds then 3) before he died, so I am unsure where the complaints about 4 times are ocming from unless you ended up failing the first time and healing him to 50%. No complaints on this, just takes a few tanks.5. 5th named: Carival: this is as far as we got. Chess game was fun! the named seems fairly straight forward, and our raid would have been able to do it, but we kept crashing like eveyrone else. first pull 8 people crashed, so then I read this forum and had everyone turn off logs and particles. We had 2 pulls where 2 people crashed (unfortunately both healers). Then the rest of our pulls about 1/2 the raid crashed. We called it when 2/3 of our raid crashed out. Mine was a client error all 3 times it happened.This is as far as we got, we just got too frustrated on carival to go further. Also, we were unsure how to progress further in the zone, we assume you have to kill carival to continue? Other things: Valkrie feathers are a low drop rate, we got 3 out of the whole zone. yeti pelt did not drop on the snowbeast statue, I recieved a yeti pelt for moving the chess peice on the chess board oddly.As for loot, its on par I think with easy mode tox. Some of the peices sure could use a little boost I think, but for the most part, people seemed happy with it in my raid.<img src="http://kyrainetheranger.tripod.com/starsiggirl.gif" /><a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Starseeker/">Starseeker</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Arendul/">Arendul</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Ristan/">Ristan</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Kyraine/">Kyraine</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Saewyn/">Saewyn</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Lyiana/">Lyiana</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Kicx/">Kicx</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Elegi/">Elegi</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Anomandaris/">Anomandaris</a> My Houses: <a class="postlink" href="list.m?topic_id=477978">Starseeker's Suite</a>--<a class="postlink" href="list.m?topic_id=456320">The Tinkerdome 1.0</a>-- <a class="postlink" href="list.m?topic_id=458754">The Tinkerdome 2.0</a> <table cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr valign="middle"><td align="right"><a href="http://www.contempteq2.com/forums/report.php?f=22&p=1474"><img title="Report this post" src="http://www.contempteq2.com/forums/styles/DarkFantasy/imageset/en/icon_post_report.gif" /></a></td></tr></tbody></table>

Barx

06-06-2010, 01:39 PM

<cite>tarseeker@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is as far as we got, we just got too frustrated on carival to go further. Also, we were unsure how to progress further in the zone, we assume you have to kill carival to continue? Other things: Valkrie feathers are a low drop rate, we got 3 out of the whole zone. yeti pelt did not drop on the snowbeast statue, I recieved a yeti pelt for moving the chess peice on the chess board oddly.</blockquote>Yes, you need to kill the Corrival to progress (I won't spoil it though, it's fun).There's plenty of yeti pelts later in the zone, more than enough to get the 10 for the quest. Not sure how you got one for moving a piece on a chess board... sounds like someone went back and looted a corpse while you were doing it, or your quest messages were really lagging behind.

Ristan

06-06-2010, 02:10 PM

Yeah we had a ton of lag, due to silly server issues on crushbone + whatever zone already dishes out, entirely possible it could have taken that long to update. We were having 5-10 sec spell lag plus zone lag when we'd pull stuff.Bah thats whatI figured. Great many more LDs to come! Our last pull we managed to survive the 75% and every one stayed in game but the 50% split knocked 2/3s of us out of the game, we called it quits at that. Very frustrating to have to kill this mob to progress, since we could kill it if we weren't all punted every time.Thanks for the info though <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> I do enjoy the raid zone, nice to have some place where you have to think about stuff, instead of going in a room killing 4 mobs and going home.<img src="http://kyrainetheranger.tripod.com/starsiggirl.gif" /><a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Starseeker/">Starseeker</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Arendul/">Arendul</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Ristan/">Ristan</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Kyraine/">Kyraine</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Saewyn/">Saewyn</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Lyiana/">Lyiana</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Kicx/">Kicx</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Elegi/">Elegi</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Anomandaris/">Anomandaris</a> My Houses: <a class="postlink" href="list.m?topic_id=477978">Starseeker's Suite</a>--<a class="postlink" href="list.m?topic_id=456320">The Tinkerdome 1.0</a>-- <a class="postlink" href="list.m?topic_id=458754">The Tinkerdome 2.0</a> <table cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr valign="middle"><td align="right"><a href="http://www.contempteq2.com/forums/report.php?f=22&p=1474"><img title="Report this post" src="http://www.contempteq2.com/forums/styles/DarkFantasy/imageset/en/icon_post_report.gif" /></a></td></tr></tbody></table>

Gninja

06-06-2010, 02:22 PM

FYI we found the direct cause for the Corrival crash and it should get fixed in a hotfix this coming week. It was a real pain to track down but we are confident we found it and corrected it. If you want to try it this weekend I would avoid having your camera facing the corrival when the split happens. That might be able to minimize the amounts of crashes that happen. It has nothing to do with logs or particles turned on.

SonnyA

06-06-2010, 02:55 PM

Good job Carlos.. those bugs can really be annoying to track down <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Ristan

06-06-2010, 04:22 PM

Woohoo, glad to hear it. Thank you for keeping us up todate on the status of this raid zone. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /><img src="http://kyrainetheranger.tripod.com/starsiggirl.gif" /><a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Starseeker/">Starseeker</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Arendul/">Arendul</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Ristan/">Ristan</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Kyraine/">Kyraine</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Saewyn/">Saewyn</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Lyiana/">Lyiana</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Kicx/">Kicx</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Elegi/">Elegi</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Anomandaris/">Anomandaris</a> My Houses: <a class="postlink" href="list.m?topic_id=477978">Starseeker's Suite</a>--<a class="postlink" href="list.m?topic_id=456320">The Tinkerdome 1.0</a>-- <a class="postlink" href="list.m?topic_id=458754">The Tinkerdome 2.0</a>

ArivenGemini

06-07-2010, 12:41 AM

<cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>FYI we found the direct cause for the Corrival crash and it should get fixed in a hotfix this coming week. It was a real pain to track down but we are confident we found it and corrected it. If you want to try it this weekend I would avoid having your camera facing the corrival when the split happens. That might be able to minimize the amounts of crashes that happen. It has nothing to do with logs or particles turned on.</blockquote>We had an oddity on the zone today.After we were done, several of us used our call to go back to our guild hall/city/etc... but one person ran to the front door and left via the normal exit.This caused about 5 of us to get pulled from where we were (I was in our guild hall for example) to the "fanged sea", only it wasn't the fanged sea with Halas in it.. it was the Fanged Sea boat ride for the old everfrost access quest....complete with little devices to crank to keep the ring event going.

Raetsel

06-07-2010, 09:16 AM

You are sure that it was not somebody still in your raid who also was in the guildhall and using the mariner bell.right next to the fanged sea you can select the boatride "zone" if you had done the quest previously. this zones everyone with the person.

ArivenGemini

06-07-2010, 11:30 AM

<cite>Raetsel@Valor wrote:</cite><blockquote>You are sure that it was not somebody still in your raid who also was in the guildhall and using the mariner bell.right next to the fanged sea you can select the boatride "zone" if you had done the quest previously. this zones everyone with the person.</blockquote>Yes, it gave a red text banner about who "led our group" to the fanged sea, and she apologized and said she didnt realise zoning out of the raid zone would take others with her.She also wasnt in group with us, just in raid with us.

Gninja

06-07-2010, 11:32 AM

<cite>ArivenGemini wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>FYI we found the direct cause for the Corrival crash and it should get fixed in a hotfix this coming week. It was a real pain to track down but we are confident we found it and corrected it. If you want to try it this weekend I would avoid having your camera facing the corrival when the split happens. That might be able to minimize the amounts of crashes that happen. It has nothing to do with logs or particles turned on.</blockquote>We had an oddity on the zone today.After we were done, several of us used our call to go back to our guild hall/city/etc... but one person ran to the front door and left via the normal exit.This caused about 5 of us to get pulled from where we were (I was in our guild hall for example) to the "fanged sea", only it wasn't the fanged sea with Halas in it.. it was the Fanged Sea boat ride for the old everfrost access quest....complete with little devices to crank to keep the ring event going.</blockquote>That is definately odd. Considering the group/raidwide zone out was removed a couple hotfixes ago noone should lead anyone anywhere when leaving the zone. I will see if I can reproduce this.

EQPrime

06-07-2010, 11:41 AM

<cite>ArivenGemini wrote:</cite><blockquote>We had an oddity on the zone today.After we were done, several of us used our call to go back to our guild hall/city/etc... but one person ran to the front door and left via the normal exit.This caused about 5 of us to get pulled from where we were (I was in our guild hall for example) to the "fanged sea", only it wasn't the fanged sea with Halas in it.. it was the Fanged Sea boat ride for the old everfrost access quest....complete with little devices to crank to keep the ring event going.</blockquote>I hope you made sure to keep the ice off those devices!

Rocc

06-07-2010, 11:44 AM

Something else has been bugging us and thats loot table. Feathers are like SUPER rare from the trash mobs and the drops need a little higher stats to compare to SF hard instance legendary gear. Last night the only thing that dropped worth while was the dull blade and the bow with the cool graphic (for appearence gear). Have you guys reconsidered adding something more to the loot table in this zone? At the current rate we will need like 10 raids in there to complete the feather quest and another 10 to get the yeti pelts. But the gear isnt really worth justification of leaving our current scheduled zones on raid nights. Heck, TSO still has better raid gear (crit mit). Maybe if the drake, captain/LT fight and Ice maiden statue dropped patterns every kill it might be more relevant to the time invested.

ArivenGemini

06-07-2010, 11:45 AM

<cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ArivenGemini wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>FYI we found the direct cause for the Corrival crash and it should get fixed in a hotfix this coming week. It was a real pain to track down but we are confident we found it and corrected it. If you want to try it this weekend I would avoid having your camera facing the corrival when the split happens. That might be able to minimize the amounts of crashes that happen. It has nothing to do with logs or particles turned on.</blockquote>We had an oddity on the zone today.After we were done, several of us used our call to go back to our guild hall/city/etc... but one person ran to the front door and left via the normal exit.This caused about 5 of us to get pulled from where we were (I was in our guild hall for example) to the "fanged sea", only it wasn't the fanged sea with Halas in it.. it was the Fanged Sea boat ride for the old everfrost access quest....complete with little devices to crank to keep the ring event going.</blockquote>That is definately odd. Considering the group/raidwide zone out was removed a couple hotfixes ago noone should lead anyone anywhere when leaving the zone. I will see if I can reproduce this.</blockquote>Yeah, the fact that the person who did it wasn't in my group makes it even odder to me, I will pester the victim that did it to us tonight when I log on and see if she can remember her exact steps.It has only happened to us the once though, so I am not sure its a major buglet.

Tehom

06-07-2010, 12:34 PM

Maybe something like she was there, arrived via vet call, then when zoning out it returned her there but acted as a pull-in zone so grabbed the first 5 people available to go with her? Something like that.

Kenban

06-07-2010, 12:35 PM

<cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ArivenGemini wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>FYI we found the direct cause for the Corrival crash and it should get fixed in a hotfix this coming week. It was a real pain to track down but we are confident we found it and corrected it. If you want to try it this weekend I would avoid having your camera facing the corrival when the split happens. That might be able to minimize the amounts of crashes that happen. It has nothing to do with logs or particles turned on.</blockquote>We had an oddity on the zone today.After we were done, several of us used our call to go back to our guild hall/city/etc... but one person ran to the front door and left via the normal exit.This caused about 5 of us to get pulled from where we were (I was in our guild hall for example) to the "fanged sea", only it wasn't the fanged sea with Halas in it.. it was the Fanged Sea boat ride for the old everfrost access quest....complete with little devices to crank to keep the ring event going.</blockquote>That is definately odd. Considering the group/raidwide zone out was removed a couple hotfixes ago noone should lead anyone anywhere when leaving the zone. I will see if I can reproduce this.</blockquote>Pretty sure this has nothing to do with the raid zone. My guild was forming up to raid Icy Keep one evening and when someone used something to port over to Fanged Sea and the raid ended up on the boat (I think the bell but not 100% sure). It was interesting raiding the zone with 20+ people though... Everyone was still in the guild hall. Not a single person had zoned into the raid zone yet (or anywhere else for that matter).Heres a quick guess though. I had noticed that the fanged sea appears twice on the map when using the bell in the guild hall. I suspect that the second option is zoning people into the instance (its a little off to the right in the middle of the ocean of the correct option). Was planning on trying it out and seeing if this was what happened but never seem to remember when I get the time.

Uwopo

06-07-2010, 12:52 PM

The instances for the old access quests show up on the bell map. If somebody in raid chooses one, the entire raid will get pulled into the instance (usually multiple instances, since they are group only).The Fanged Sea instance is particularly troublesome, since the name is so similar to Frostfang Sea which is the Halas zone.They only show up on the bell map for people who've done the access quests, but it will zone in anyone in raid who's still in the guild hall.Personally, I think those access quest instances should just be left off the world travel map entirely and left as a bell on the dock of the appropriate zone.

ArivenGemini

06-07-2010, 01:29 PM

<cite>Uwopo@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>The instances for the old access quests show up on the bell map. If somebody in raid chooses one, the entire raid will get pulled into the instance (usually multiple instances, since they are group only).The Fanged Sea instance is particularly troublesome, since the name is so similar to Frostfang Sea which is the Halas zone.They only show up on the bell map for people who've done the access quests, but it will zone in anyone in raid who's still in the guild hall.Personally, I think those access quest instances should just be left off the world travel map entirely and left as a bell on the dock of the appropriate zone.</blockquote>They also shouldn't pull people from all over norrath.. If they pulled only from the zone the person clicking was in then it would mitigate this a bit.

Gninja

06-07-2010, 01:45 PM

The issue with the Valkarie feathers is compounded by some of the trash showing as broken encounters due to them being X2. I hope to get this fixed this week and it will be much easier to get those feathers.

Jrel

06-07-2010, 02:00 PM

<cite>Rocc@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Something else has been bugging us and thats loot table. Feathers are like SUPER rare from the trash mobs and the drops need a little higher stats to compare to SF hard instance legendary gear. Last night the only thing that dropped worth while was the dull blade and the bow with the cool graphic (for appearence gear). Have you guys reconsidered adding something more to the loot table in this zone? At the current rate we will need like 10 raids in there to complete the feather quest and another 10 to get the yeti pelts. But the gear isnt really worth justification of leaving our current scheduled zones on raid nights. Heck, TSO still has better raid gear (crit mit). Maybe if the drake, captain/LT fight and Ice maiden statue dropped patterns every kill it might be more relevant to the time invested.</blockquote>Our guild's issues exactly. The rewards for the amount of time put in is way below par. What begun as a fun new zone to explore is becoming an annoyance. Feathers and tokens need to drop more often (I see there will be more feather drops, so that is cool). Quest NPCs should be at the beginning of the zone. We spent about 4 hours for 4 "okay, but not raid-worthy" jewelry drops and 2 patterns, and not enough tokens. If a person completed a quest in their journal, then let the next quest in line be shareable, rather than the player having to go back to the NPC, and then go back to the raid--which takes time away from the raid when the zone is already long enough as it is.

Kenban

06-07-2010, 05:31 PM

I want to put in my 2 cents. I am not really sure about the names of the mobs but it should be pretty easy to figure out who I am talking about.First named, its some drake not far from where you drop down. First time we killed it there were TONS of adds. At the time did not put two and two together to figure out the adds were caused by walking over the eggs. Just recently killed it again and we had like three adds the whole time. There were pretty much no eggs up and we just destroyed it. Not sure if it was changed, luck or what. But it seemed to go from interesting to tank and spank. But frankly for the first named in an easy zone it seemed fine the second time around and maybe a little too many adds the first time. But the large number of adds the first time could just be bad positioning or the raid running around too much.Second named Ice maiden statue. Took us a little bit to figure it out. Its not obvious that killing the adds is what does the damage to the named then suddenly it stops working around 8% where you have to kill the named suddenly. The goal appears to make this an easy zone and I just think it needs a message popping up about the named being vulnerable. Also it just feels like there are too many adds. Each time you kill an add it splits in two and you have something like 25 adds by the time you can kill the named. Third named, this is the one where you split the raid force and take on two different people in separate rooms. Really no complaints here. Seems like a great fit for the zone. Don't remember how we figured this fight out though.Only spent a little time on two other fights. Another statue which when he dies splits into pieces. The first split was no problem at all. Seems odd that there is no message telling you that you could have prevented them coming back together if you don't keep them apart. The second split was an issue though. First it splits into three pieces which we separated but then a few seconds later the named stands back up before any of the pieces have been killed at that point we wiped from the 4 mobs. We only tried it twice and we had no clue if we were doing something wrong or just needed more then two tanks. Also after the first split felt like a bug that the named started attacking again before the fragments were dead.The other named we attempted was next to the chess board. Think its the named everyone is complaining about the crashes with. Took us a couple of minutes to solve the chess problem which I thought was interesting. After the fight started people just started crashing and we just gave up.Overall we have gone in twice. Once soon after it was released. The second time only a few days ago. The first time we killed the first three named and with how long the trash was taking just did not have time to continue. The second time we went in mostly to kill some time. Very few people want to return. So far the loot is just bad and maybe two items have gone to mains and mostly its just going to alts.If this was just simply an easy zone with bad loot I could see people wanting to do it but its not easy or fast. Sure there are no AE's, no healing on deaths, and the names don't hit that hard individually. But when you throw in the scripting and more importantly the adds its just not as easy as the bad loot would justify. I am pretty sure if you can do well in this zone you could handle the first few named in lair or labs. Which drop much better loot and take less time. Frankly any guild looking to get into raiding is better off skipping this zone. If you want an easy zone try out the T8 zones there are plenty of them out there. You want to get into T9 raiding skip Icy Keep and just do lair and labs.

Sinaya

06-07-2010, 11:40 PM

I like that the "taken" chess pieces on the sides of the board now have dead animations. Lovely touch. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Sinaya

06-07-2010, 11:54 PM

Still crashing at the chessboard fight though.

Rocc

06-08-2010, 12:20 PM

Thanks for looking into the feather thing Gninja.Another thing, and one of the most irritating, is Corrival leashing when not on the checkerboard. If one person gets punted and has agro, the encounter resets. We had him around 10% twice and he reset. You wanna talk about mad? I threw my lighter at the wall and its still stuck in the drywall. We were trying to pull the ole 10 and 2 method (like a steering wheel) with the raid party in the middle, Corrival next to the throne and trash on wall 30 meters from Corrival. He kept reseting so we kept revising our strat. It appears the only option is to pull him in the center of the chess board. I'm not a huge fan of that mechanic and believe it should be our option to pull him anywhere in the room and NOT have him leash and reset. But that's just me. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" />

Xill

06-08-2010, 03:52 PM

<cite>Rocc@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thanks for looking into the feather thing Gninja.Another thing, and one of the most irritating, is Corrival leashing when not on the checkerboard. If one person gets punted and has agro, the encounter resets. We had him around 10% twice and he reset. You wanna talk about mad? I threw my lighter at the wall and its still stuck in the drywall. We were trying to pull the ole 10 and 2 method (like a steering wheel) with the raid party in the middle, Corrival next to the throne and trash on wall 30 meters from Corrival. He kept reseting so we kept revising our strat. It appears the only option is to pull him in the center of the chess board. I'm not a huge fan of that mechanic and believe it should be our option to pull him anywhere in the room and NOT have him leash and reset. But that's just me. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Well the dude seems to be all about his chess board... so him refusing to fight you any other place is not something that out of ordinary...Plus its part of the challenge...

Rocc

06-09-2010, 12:38 PM

Yes it is challenging thats for sure. My question is, was he designed to leash at the edges of the room? We were no where near the door or anything. The simple mindset of having the tank have his back to the wall is not a bit unusual if you ask me. Especially when the mob punts people. Maybe its just me but I would kinda like to have a controlled enviroment where I can have rezzers in range of dead people and actually be able to kill a mob without him leashing/reseting. /shrugIt's not like pulling him into a corner is an unusual strat. We tried to pull him next to his own throne and he leashed. In a corner, scouts can see his back, healers and dirges can rez without running across the room and losing 2k on the parse and the raid stays in range of raid wide buffs. Doent seem like a lot to ask for does it?Edit - He also leashes while still on the chessboard if he gets near the pillars. Please tell me that's not intended.

Jesdyr

06-09-2010, 01:07 PM

<cite>Rocc@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote> Especially when the mob punts people.</blockquote>I dont remember a KB during this fight ... We just killed him in the open (no client crashes either)

Xill

06-09-2010, 03:59 PM

<cite>Rocc@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes it is challenging thats for sure. My question is, was he designed to leash at the edges of the room? We were no where near the door or anything. The simple mindset of having the tank have his back to the wall is not a bit unusual if you ask me. Especially when the mob punts people. Maybe its just me but I would kinda like to have a controlled enviroment where I can have rezzers in range of dead people and actually be able to kill a mob without him leashing/reseting. /shrugIt's not like pulling him into a corner is an unusual strat. We tried to pull him next to his own throne and he leashed. In a corner, scouts can see his back, healers and dirges can rez without running across the room and losing 2k on the parse and the raid stays in range of raid wide buffs. Doent seem like a lot to ask for does it?Edit - He also leashes while still on the chessboard if he gets near the pillars. Please tell me that's not intended.</blockquote>Not alot to ask for... but... considering if every fight worked the way you just described that would get boring quick. The whole idea is you must be able to react to a changing situation, not be given a nice calm, controlled and organized fight. Maybe for the first mob or 2 in a zone but not for the guy at the 50% mark. If it worked the way you just described what would make it hard? And if its not difficult at all in strat, and he doesnt hit hard or do anything special then its a tank and spank... Plus if you cornered this guy you would wipe every time.I honestly dont know if he is meant to be tanked in the center and you just deal with the KB or not. But its not like that is such a difficult thing to work around. Maybe your dirge's and healers need to stop worrying about the parse for a minute? Trash is for parsing, named are(should be) for intelligent and accurate excecution of a strategy designed to mitigate the effects a named forces you to deal with resulting in its death.

Yimway

06-09-2010, 04:07 PM

Nudging him into the geometry around his throne/chair and allowing your ranged to setup around the pillar area presented no problems.

Vlahkmaak

06-09-2010, 04:32 PM

Please put some sort of defensive ability (block chance etc) on the shield - as it is it is unuseable: staight to muting as it is not even a slight upgrade to heroic drops from last tier excepting some protiection but not enough for anyone to seriously even consider equiping it over last tier x-pac shields. It just plain lacks any appeal.

Sydares

06-11-2010, 12:17 AM

As of Thursday, June 10, The Frozen Corrival event is 100% incompletable.He's killable, but when you loot his key to the chest, he will instantly respawn, steal the key from your inventory, and reengage. This happened both times we killed him. We finally just had to leave him up and progress through the zone as usual.

Ristan

06-12-2010, 11:56 AM

so is the zone not accessable past corrival then? My raid went in there last night (we noticed the message about him not being in the zone) but figured you'd still be able to progress further for the time being, but we couldn't find any way to progress.

Rocc

06-12-2010, 01:00 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nudging him into the geometry around his throne/chair and allowing your ranged to setup around the pillar area presented no problems.</blockquote>Ya bro we did try him a few times next to or near his throne. Actually one of your guildies is a room mate with one of ours and watched the fight. He leashed every time we pulled him on that wall. We were frustrated to say the least. Get him to 5% or so and have him reset? I'm still mad. LOLI hear you guys on the challenge thing but it's not like we tried to change the dynamic of the fight or anything. We pull him in his own room. We pulled him on the checkerboard near the pillars and the same thing happened. So we will deal with it but it still seems like the encounter is broken if he resets so easily. The KB allows him to chase someone off the checkerboard and hense the reset. It's random luck I suppose. We had a couple fights where he didn't reset but some were wearing their cloak of the harvester so they could float back onto the checkerboard (to prevent leash). I'm not a huge fan if thats the strat we have to use. The creativity is cool, the zone is cool, just wish it all worked. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" />

Makran

06-12-2010, 07:06 PM

Its ver upsetting to me that the developers cant come out with a new raid..... we have seen this same zone since everqest 2 came out and you get us all pumped up with a new raid when oh no.. its the same zone we've seen since the release plus we get to see it every single year during frostfel too. How creative. I'm sickened by this game ever since TSO. We have been charged for adventure packs. We have been ripped off!

Raiwon

06-14-2010, 09:56 AM

Ristan

06-14-2010, 10:02 AM

<cite>Makran wrote:</cite><blockquote>Its ver upsetting to me that the developers cant come out with a new raid..... we have seen this same zone since everqest 2 came out and you get us all pumped up with a new raid when oh no.. its the same zone we've seen since the release plus we get to see it every single year during frostfel too. How creative. I'm sickened by this game ever since TSO. We have been charged for adventure packs. We have been ripped off!</blockquote>The begining of the zone yes, is frostfell/perma frost. Up until you get past the 2nd named (ice maiden). From there the zone changes into stuff we haven't seen before, sure it still "looks" like permafrost, I mean it's the icey keep retribution, which is a sequel to the icy keep from frost fell so it SHOULD look like that zone, but it is not a copy and paste. The chessboard is new, the teleporters are new....I haven't got past the chessboard to say if any other parts are new.Frankly when I'm on a raid I'm not really looking at the scenery much anyways (past the first time in there) except to find a spot to pull, I would rather them work on interesting encounters that work and itemization, then making a zone look pretty and "new".<img src="http://kyrainetheranger.tripod.com/starsiggirl.gif" /><a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Starseeker/">Starseeker</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Arendul/">Arendul</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Ristan/">Ristan</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Kyraine/">Kyraine</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Saewyn/">Saewyn</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Lyiana/">Lyiana</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Kicx/">Kicx</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Elegi/">Elegi</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Anomandaris/">Anomandaris</a> My Houses: <a class="postlink" href="list.m?topic_id=477978">Starseeker's Suite</a>--<a class="postlink" href="list.m?topic_id=456320">The Tinkerdome 1.0</a>-- <a class="postlink" href="list.m?topic_id=458754">The Tinkerdome 2.0</a>

Rocc

06-14-2010, 12:27 PM

The drop rate of feathers, pelts and quest updates from body drops were right on par last night. Thank you Gninja! We stopped after we killed snowbeast statue until the chessboard thing is fixed. Only one pattern dropped for us which was kind of disappointing but we had a bug free night up to that point with exception of voice chat. I did notice that the trash appears to have the exact same hitpoints as before. I'm not complaining, just saying.... thought they were being nerfed a bit?

Phelon_Skellhound

06-17-2010, 07:40 PM

<cite>Aest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Carthrax wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>For everyone saying the loot is terrible, duh.</blockquote>Yeah, but the loot should be on par with WoE loot from the previous tier(that is not being 1 grouped by PuG's)..But other than the loot, I have just one single request.. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make a respawn point from Vrewwx's room somewhere closer! Like in the Ice Maiden's room(that would be perfect).. If someone slid off, or there was a wipe it was literally 5-10minutes for people to figure out which way to go to get back into Vrewwx's Lair...</blockquote>You know once Ice Maiden D'Ina is killed you can just open the front doors and walk straight to the dragon right? :p</blockquote>You know the revive spot is in the Lt. Quarters, right? :p(As in, it's nowhere near the entrance)</blockquote>I second this.. Can we move the revive point after killing D'Ina? Having to evac and run thru the door after every wipe trying to learn the dragon pull is painful...

Barx

06-18-2010, 04:28 PM

<cite>Rocc@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>The drop rate of feathers, pelts and quest updates from body drops were right on par last night. Thank you Gninja! We stopped after we killed snowbeast statue until the chessboard thing is fixed. Only one pattern dropped for us which was kind of disappointing but we had a bug free night up to that point with exception of voice chat. I did notice that the trash appears to have the exact same hitpoints as before. I'm not complaining, just saying.... thought they were being nerfed a bit?</blockquote>Ehh I have to disagree on drop rates. Some of the quests will still require a lot of clears (I'm talking 4-5+) to complete, and that's just excessive. Part of the reason for it on some of them is that one step comes after the other rather than at the same time.A good example there is the smelly bag quest. The first step is 20 yetis (which really means 20 yeti encounters, since you only get one chest per encounter, so you're looking at 2-3 clears for these), then you need 9 wolves (which really means 9 wolf encounters, so you're talking another 3 clears). If those two steps could be done at the same time the total amount of time needed to do the quest would be brought down significantly and would come to a reasonable level.

Barx

06-18-2010, 04:29 PM

<cite>Khatiru@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>I second this.. Can we move the revive point after killing D'Ina? Having to evac and run thru the door after every wipe trying to learn the dragon pull is painful...</blockquote>Agree. Or best of all, give us options: let us pick whether we want to revive in the lieutenant's quarters or entrance (and maybe even also the chessboard or twins room as a third choice).

Jrel

06-19-2010, 11:51 AM

Post moved from Zones and Population forum:(FYI, we're not a powerful guild, but we can get halfway through Labs, PRT and Toxx in one night. )Not sure what happened to the zone, but all the mobs are taking too long to kill now. Last time (last week and the week before), it took us 2 hours to get to Debitino with 153K encounter DPS. Tonight it took us 3 hrs to get to him with 166K encounter DPS. What the heck?? The zone was easy when we first tackled it two weeks ago (except for the bugged encounters). Now, Twins are bugged last 10% of fight, the memwiping was insane. The "tactic" to remove their immunities was bugged. It ended up healing back to 15% and we tried again. Back at 10%, due to the memwiping, it was a total die/rez/zergfest. Also, DPSing on the named Ice Maiden encounter wasn't going fast enough, so we just quit.The loot is sub-par. We had 4 free for all rolls tonight after two weeks of raiding for 2-3 hours each. If you want the zone to match the loot, tone down the boss and trash mobs drastically; or put loot equal to the drops in the first halves of Labs and PRT and Toxx in there. We spent 3.5 hours for 2-3 "okay" drops where we could have done 2 SF zones in that much time.The quests to get the drops to get the feathers, and then the meats and so forth are too time-consuming. The rewards are not worth the effort. Just get rid of the quests, put all the loot on loot tables, put token drops, and put the much better loot on npc merchants that we can exchange tokens for (a la Paineel and Moonfield).If we had known the amount of time we would need to put in to get the loot that is available, we never would have entered. The current loot is like the harder SF instance loot, except you have to put 2x-3x the time to get it, with 4x the amount of people.

Laenai

06-19-2010, 12:47 PM

So, we did Icy Keep for the first time this past Thursday. We've cleared easy Tox, up to Iilsaad's in PoRT, and up to Haraakat in Labs, so I think we're the kind of group that Icy Keep is aimed for. We're a raid alliance of hardcore role-players and raid 3 nights a week. On our first run, we cleared Lieutenant Thundersmash, then ran out of time for the night (we got a late start in the evening and did a quick Tox run first) Keeping in mind that the easy part of this zone is made for groups like us and lesser, here's what we came up with.We decided that:1) In comparison to the named in the zone, the trash has a touch too much health. It took about the same amount of time to kill each trash mob as it did for us to kill named.2) The gear was beyond bad. We had 2 new people with us(who've never raided period) and THEY didn't even want it/need it, it was so bad. Everything except one necklace and the bow with the cool appearance was muted. And the bow with the cool appearance was /ran 1000 for the appearance. Not because it was needed.3) You might consider cutting down on some of the ever-spawning egg nodes in the room of the first named. It wasn't too much a difficult time once we got the hang of it, but if the zone is meant for more pick-up-ish groups, then you might put then every 12 feet instead of every 7 feet.4) Loved the Statue of the Ice Maiden fight. It was a bit challenging on our healers (a lot of us have just changed classes due to the mystic/fury mess up), but totally doable. Even with what felt like a kerjillion adds at the end.5) Also had a good time with the Captain/Thundersmash fight. Our only problem was that when we pulled the captain, the stuff was running all over the place and phasing through the walls constantly in the first 7 seconds of the fight. We eventually wound up with the lieutenant in the captain's room and the captain in the golem room. Oops. The next time we go, we'll try using the levers instead of just pulling the mob.6) Part of what took us so long in there was a lot of empty space with a lot of running. While that isn't necessarily a bad thing, its a lot of movement through empty corridors, etc., to even find anything to kill.7) Replayability will be a problem, even for us. Yeah, the AA was decent (much better than off the SF raid mobs for sure), but the loot was -so- bad and it took -so- long to get through even that one small portion, that I don't see us sprinting back for more. IDK, maybe up the chance of master drops or something in there? That might bring us back for more. Even for a bunch of RPers and quest-hounds, the idea that we'll have to go in a million times to finish anything is looking like a poor prospect in comparison to the gear that drops off the other mobs we can kill and will soon be killing.

Ristan

06-19-2010, 02:32 PM

So my guild did this last night and is going back for completion tonight. My guild can finish easy tox, the first 3 named in labs, and the first named in palace. Like the previous posters, I'm posting my take on this zone now that it's been "fixed". We raided for 4 hours and got to taskmaster nicol.1. The trash have way too many hps. My raid was doing 160-200k dps and each trash mob was taking 2-3 mins to kill. For having so many trash it was getting teadious. the x4 golems especially were seeming to have alot of HPs I will look on ACT when I get home to see what they came in on, one particular fight we got 230k dps, and it still took nearly 4-5 minutes to kill the thing.2. The ice maiden statue at 9% was still immune to damage, we had to wait approx 20ish seconds and kill another add to have her take damage, noticed thislast time we were in there too.3. The leiutenant and captain warp through the walls, one shoting dps before a tank can even target them when pulled. Last night we ended up with both the captian and the leiutenent upstairs, and then the captian ran off after about 15 seconds to attack the tank downstairs. Last week we ended up with the captain upstairs and the leiutenant downstairs and ended up killing the captain first, and the leiutenant was almost dead....just a very buggy encounter.3A: LOOT ON THE CAPTAIN/LEIUTENANT: so we have done this encounter 3 times. Every time it drops the glacial occult wrists and the ice bow. every time. thats it. is that the only two things this mob drops?4. Snow Beast statue. This happened this weekend and last weekend, when you get to the 3 adds and fail (one tank accidently grabs them all), the named stands up but the adds don't despawn. On the round where you have 2 adds, the adds will pop and insta kill the tank and the named stands up and you start over, on the 3 add round, it doesn't happen, notsure if this is intended or not.5. Corrival - No issues with this encounter surprisingly.6. Loot: The loot is questionable, my raid is bidding on alot of it, because they are still mostly in level 80 raid gear with some SF from the zones listed above. it seems to be minor upgrades. Although for some of my raid it is decent upgrades.<img src="http://kyrainetheranger.tripod.com/starsiggirl.gif" /><a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Starseeker/">Starseeker</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Arendul/">Arendul</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Ristan/">Ristan</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Kyraine/">Kyraine</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Saewyn/">Saewyn</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Lyiana/">Lyiana</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Kicx/">Kicx</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Elegi/">Elegi</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Anomandaris/">Anomandaris</a> My Houses: <a class="postlink" href="list.m?topic_id=477978">Starseeker's Suite</a>--<a class="postlink" href="list.m?topic_id=456320">The Tinkerdome 1.0</a>-- <a class="postlink" href="list.m?topic_id=458754">The Tinkerdome 2.0</a>

Nevynmysti

06-19-2010, 05:49 PM

Um, Since Corival is on Vacation... can we get a pass to pass the chessboard to the other mobs? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />THanks!

Ristan

06-19-2010, 07:29 PM

<cite>Nevynmysti wrote:</cite><blockquote>Um, Since Corival is on Vacation... can we get a pass to pass the chessboard to the other mobs? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />THanks!</blockquote>Corrival was fixed in the last hotfix and put back in, if you have an exsisting instance you have to reset.Looked at my log filesa loyal ice golem: (03:53) 37601459 total damage | 161379.70 dpsSo it took us nearly 4 minutes to kill a trash mob at 160k dps. a large ice golem: (02:29) 27040213 total damage | 181477.90 dpsTook us 2 1/2 minutes at 180 dps, but I believe that was a different mob due to the damage difference, but seriously a trash mob with 27 -37.5 mil hps? thats a tad much.Comparatively all of the named range from 16mil to 30 mil.Example: Tamer Nicoli: (03:23) 34229403 total damage | 168617.80 dps<img src="http://kyrainetheranger.tripod.com/starsiggirl.gif" /><a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Starseeker/">Starseeker</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Arendul/">Arendul</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Ristan/">Ristan</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Kyraine/">Kyraine</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Saewyn/">Saewyn</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Lyiana/">Lyiana</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Kicx/">Kicx</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Elegi/">Elegi</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Anomandaris/">Anomandaris</a> My Houses: <a class="postlink" href="list.m?topic_id=477978">Starseeker's Suite</a>--<a class="postlink" href="list.m?topic_id=456320">The Tinkerdome 1.0</a>-- <a class="postlink" href="list.m?topic_id=458754">The Tinkerdome 2.0</a>

BChizzle

06-19-2010, 09:37 PM

Way too much hp on the trash.

Phelon_Skellhound

06-19-2010, 10:06 PM

It's already been established that that the loot is gonna be subpar. When a guild the zone is designed for says loot is bad... Hmmmm.... My complaints are as follows:Granted its a long zone.. but it does take a while time to burn thru some of the the trash...Having to stop the raid so someone can go update their quest, before we progress further into the zone. The revive point after eliminating D'Ina is too far. Something to get more replay value from a raid guild like mine:A chance for trash to drop masters like SoH did... Would prefer tele straight to the dragon or at least his own instance ala VP, for better replay value of the zone for guilds mid teir plus in raiding. Would also solve the revive point issue hehe... We are currently trying to figure the dragon out now that the bugs have been prety much straightened out, cuz well we want bragging rights lol... We could care less about the other mobs as we can clear the previous zones easy mode already, cept Underfoot... Having to wade through easy mobs with subpar loot that rot, is muted or goes to alts is very painful. Yes it wasnt designed for raid guilds like mine, but in order to provide better replay value of the zone for higher teir raid guilds that actually could use the loot from the end mob only.I seriously doubt we'd ever return to this zone after finishing EZ mode unless we want to work on Hard Mode.

Pervis

06-20-2010, 01:51 AM

OK, so this raid zone is aimed at "entry level" guilds. The first thing I think of when "entry level raid" is mentioned in reguards to 24 man raids, is the only really successful zone of this type EQ2 has ever had: The Protectors Realm.PR was good for a few reasons. First of all, it was avalible the day its expansion released, every guild ran it for access, and every guild got loot that was worthwhile, as it was the first T8 raid for almost everyone. This straight away set a good impression of the zone to basically every raider in the game at the time (first impressions are important). This first impression lead those players to run it again and again, and if that is not the hallmark of a successful raid zone, I don't know what is.Second, PR was fantastic because of the number of base population and the HP they had: a big fat ZERO in both cases.In TSO, I spent a lot of the off nights my guild at the time had helping a more casual guild raiding. They only had 3 raid nights a week, and one of those nights was used up in killing the trash in PotAO. The second raid was spent killing that first named encounter and the first two encounters in ToMC. Their last nights raiding was spent in RoK zones (running VP would require every raid during the full 10 day lockout, and sometimes they didn't manage to kill Silverwing in that time).Point is, Icy Keep is aimed at guilds similar to this. Some of these guilds have raidwide DPS that is lower than an individual sorcerer in a top end guild. This is not a straight forward gear issue, as the monk alt I was using to help them was geared out similarly to them and topping the parse. It is a straight up skill issue, both on an individual level in spell rotation/priority and positioning, and on a leadership level with group make up.A zone designed to cater for them NEEDS to take this in to account, and that is something Icy Keep definatly does not do.What I don't really understand is: if you want to make an entry level raid zone, why not simply mimic the city raids that were improved during KoS? Take the idea of introducing one concept at a time to a raid, put it in a zone with reliable access (not a zone where your Qeynos and Freeport based players may end up in different instances...), and put loot on it designed specifically to tackle the next level of raid mobs, using smartloot. You would have an instant winner... much moreso than those city raiders were with their uber status/crafting rare rewards and occasional patterns.To me, the idea of creating a full multi target, x4 raid zone with a decient amount of trash, all of which have too much HP, and then aiming it at entry level raiders and releasing it several months into an expansion... its... I can't even think of any words for the idea other than to call it pointless.For what it is, the zone itself is reasonably well made... the only real issue I have is what it actually IS.

lollipop

06-20-2010, 02:31 AM

<cite>Pervis wrote:</cite><blockquote>OK, so this raid zone is aimed at "entry level" guilds. The first thing I think of when "entry level raid" is mentioned in reguards to 24 man raids, is the only really successful zone of this type EQ2 has ever had: The Protectors Realm.PR was good for a few reasons. First of all, it was avalible the day its expansion released, every guild ran it for access, and every guild got loot that was worthwhile, as it was the first T8 raid for almost everyone. This straight away set a good impression of the zone to basically every raider in the game at the time (first impressions are important). This first impression lead those players to run it again and again, and if that is not the hallmark of a successful raid zone, I don't know what is.Second, PR was fantastic because of the number of base population and the HP they had: a big fat ZERO in both cases.In TSO, I spent a lot of the off nights my guild at the time had helping a more casual guild raiding. They only had 3 raid nights a week, and one of those nights was used up in killing the trash in PotAO. The second raid was spent killing that first named encounter and the first two encounters in ToMC. Their last nights raiding was spent in RoK zones (running VP would require every raid during the full 10 day lockout, and sometimes they didn't manage to kill Silverwing in that time).Point is, Icy Keep is aimed at guilds similar to this. Some of these guilds have raidwide DPS that is lower than an individual sorcerer in a top end guild. This is not a straight forward gear issue, as the monk alt I was using to help them was geared out similarly to them and topping the parse. It is a straight up skill issue, both on an individual level in spell rotation/priority and positioning, and on a leadership level with group make up.A zone designed to cater for them NEEDS to take this in to account, and that is something Icy Keep definatly does not do.What I don't really understand is: if you want to make an entry level raid zone, why not simply mimic the city raids that were improved during KoS? Take the idea of introducing one concept at a time to a raid, put it in a zone with reliable access (not a zone where your Qeynos and Freeport based players may end up in different instances...), and put loot on it designed specifically to tackle the next level of raid mobs, using smartloot. You would have an instant winner... much moreso than those city raiders were with their uber status/crafting rare rewards and occasional patterns.To me, the idea of creating a full multi target, x4 raid zone with a decient amount of trash, all of which have too much HP, and then aiming it at entry level raiders and releasing it several months into an expansion... its... I can't even think of any words for the idea other than to call it pointless.For what it is, the zone itself is reasonably well made... the only real issue I have is what it actually IS.</blockquote>Well said!!

Phelon_Skellhound

06-20-2010, 11:23 AM

a good post indeed... Most casual/entry lvl raid guilds dont raid that much so it may be a bit long for them...

Yimway

06-28-2010, 04:27 PM

Icy Keep. It isn't worth the time or challenge if any other SF timer is available to you.Considering you can do tox, labs, and palace each 2x/wk, its dang hard to find any justification for spending twice as long in this zone for 1/10th the reward.And yes, most of the encounters in other SF zones are actually easier than this 'starter zone', and offer far, far better rewards.

Jrel

06-28-2010, 04:33 PM

We did this zone again last weekend. Took us 2 hours to get to O & K this time, and that fight went smoother, although we had to redo it once. All the mobs seem to have the same amount of hp as before. The snowbeast named and ice dragon named are still PITA fights. Loot is still not worth the 2 hours spent in this "raid guild starter" zone.

Gninja

06-28-2010, 06:17 PM

Which Snowbeast named? Tamer Nicoli or Statue of the Snowbeast? What exactly was the issue with it?

vinere

06-28-2010, 06:58 PM

Jrel

06-28-2010, 07:06 PM

<cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>Which Snowbeast named? Tamer Nicoli or Statue of the Snowbeast? What exactly was the issue with it?</blockquote>It was the Frozen Statue I think (in the ciruclar room with the weapon racks). Maybe I'm asking for too much, but can the set of double and triple adds each have their own names? Like "a shiney ...", "an icy ...", and "a frozen ..."? That would help big-time.Our encounter hasn't been bugged for the last two weeks, thankfully.

Eveningsong

06-28-2010, 07:23 PM

<cite>vinere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>Which Snowbeast named? Tamer Nicoli or Statue of the Snowbeast? What exactly was the issue with it?</blockquote>Well i know statue is still bugged, and still randomly gets up, and chases people around.</blockquote>The statue hasn't done that the last two times when I've killed it, although it used to do that. I assumed it had been fixed. The kill has been pretty smooth the past couple of weeks anyways, although that may be more due to a fairly consistent raid group than anything else.

Slowin

06-28-2010, 10:39 PM

I've found it sort of peculiar that nobody in this thread has discussed Vrewwx at all. Nothing on either easy or hard mode seems to provide any clues as to how you are supposed to do this fight. Easy mode -- First like 50% seems to go pretty smooth and then people start randomly getting iced with an incurable elemental. Our initial thoughts were that someone had to break them out using that quested hammer but that wasn't working. We then assumed that you could break the ice by taking falling damage from the arcane knockup.. but that doesn't seem to be working either. The time we did kill it we only seemed to get hit with incurable elemental one time so when we killed it our response was basically like huh.. this fight stupid and we have no idea why we were able to randomly win it when we did.Hard mode -- Most guilds killed this in the first week when it was still bugged but i haven't heard of any killing it since then (not that there haven't been any..). The idea seems pretty simple.. kill the rejuvenators as soon as they spawn.. and dps the named. However, since the patch, there is now a yeti that just comes and [Removed for Content] your raid with no clue as to what you're supposed to do about him. Prior to the "fix" it didn't come till about 6 minutes into the fight. Is everything about this fight just supposed to be a stupid guessing game? Can't wait to have this kill and be done with the zone.

Morghus

06-28-2010, 10:57 PM

Agreed with the above, both Vrewwx fights are incredibly unintuitive. We still arent entirely sure what is supposed to be happening with either hard or easy mode.

Barx

06-29-2010, 10:02 AM

<cite>Slowin wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've found it sort of peculiar that nobody in this thread has discussed Vrewwx at all. Nothing on either easy or hard mode seems to provide any clues as to how you are supposed to do this fight. Easy mode -- First like 50% seems to go pretty smooth and then people start randomly getting iced with an incurable elemental. Our initial thoughts were that someone had to break them out using that quested hammer but that wasn't working. We then assumed that you could break the ice by taking falling damage from the arcane knockup.. but that doesn't seem to be working either. The time we did kill it we only seemed to get hit with incurable elemental one time so when we killed it our response was basically like huh.. this fight stupid and we have no idea why we were able to randomly win it when we did.Hard mode -- Most guilds killed this in the first week when it was still bugged but i haven't heard of any killing it since then (not that there haven't been any..). The idea seems pretty simple.. kill the rejuvenators as soon as they spawn.. and dps the named. However, since the patch, there is now a yeti that just comes and [Removed for Content] your raid with no clue as to what you're supposed to do about him. Prior to the "fix" it didn't come till about 6 minutes into the fight. Is everything about this fight just supposed to be a stupid guessing game? Can't wait to have this kill and be done with the zone.</blockquote>I agree 100% that the fight is unituitive. Unlike the original SF content where even the harder mobs have blaring red text telling you to do something. It really feels like a different designer made the two new zones.As for actually what to do... the ice is broken by Vrewwx's tail swipe. There's also something with the pillars that I've heard about for preventing it, but I'm not sure if it's intended or not, since Vrewwx summons folks down sometimes.My guild ended up taking a few pulls on Vrewwx on the last day of our timer and then called it at the end of the night. Even if he has decent loot, it's not really worth it for us to go through all the crap loot to get there. The only decent loot I've seen so far is from the quest drops, but even those are null'd by the fact that you have to run the zone 4-5 times just to finish the quest, which is ludicrous. I'd like to whack whoever thought that would be a good idea in the head with a nerf bat <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2e207fad049d4d292f60607f80f05768.gif" border="0" />

thog_zork

06-29-2010, 11:32 AM

Yimway

06-29-2010, 12:43 PM

<cite>Morghus wrote:</cite><blockquote>Agreed with the above, both Vrewwx fights are incredibly unintuitive. We still arent entirely sure what is supposed to be happening with either hard or easy mode.</blockquote>The easy mode seems fairly straight forward. With all things in eq2 raiding, its just all about where you stand.Once you understand how the ice encasement is shattered and/or avoided, the easy mode fight I think is fairly straightforward with some exceptions to some bugs that I've already PM'd about.The hard mode fight was less intuitive and we've not beaten it, in fact we didn't plan to pull it but we had people mistakenly spawn it several times so we made some pulls. But I expect the challenge mode to be far less intuitive.

Gninja

06-29-2010, 01:52 PM

The fact you can be thrown up in the air when frozen is a bug and I am looking into it. There are ways (intended) for you to avoid the knock up and Freeze. The entire raid only gets ported to the center if you do something wrong <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

vinere

06-29-2010, 02:41 PM

<cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>The fact you can be thrown up in the air when frozen is a bug and I am looking into it. There are ways (intended) for you to avoid the knock up and Freeze. The entire raid only gets ported to the center if you do something wrong <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>I think the problem is.. there are NO CLUES to what you are doing wrong... Is it you didnt look to the left?.. u forgot to duck?? u didnt take your pants off? Coz at this point I guess we are just stuck trying everything.

Barx

06-29-2010, 03:56 PM

<cite>vinere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>The fact you can be thrown up in the air when frozen is a bug and I am looking into it. There are ways (intended) for you to avoid the knock up and Freeze. The entire raid only gets ported to the center if you do something wrong <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>I think the problem is.. there are NO CLUES to what you are doing wrong... Is it you didnt look to the left?.. u forgot to duck?? u didnt take your pants off? Coz at this point I guess we are just stuck trying everything.</blockquote>Exactly. All he says when he ports you back is that you were climbing walls... but I'm guessing that is exactly what is intended (going on pillars -- otherwise why have them there and why have them prevent the effect)? I'm guessing it may be something along the lines of Vrewwx targeting a person that is up there that triggers it, but I doubt I'll know for sure anytime soon since we won't be running the zone.The freeze animation takes a good bit of time (5+ seconds), but what's annoying is that it gets interrupted and most of the time we only ended up seeing the very end (the breathing ice and the circular ice wave). Don't know exactly what the criteria for it is either, we've seen it as early as ~90% or as late at ~50%, which is another annoying thing.

Gninja

06-29-2010, 05:15 PM

Just checked in a fix that cleans up the Vrewwx fight as well as fixed the respawn points. Now once you have defeated the Corrival you can respawn in his room. Once the Brothers have been killed you can respawn in there and once D'Ina has been killed the respawn resets to the front entrance since its a faster run from there.I also made the front keep doors allowed to be openned if you have completed the quest "Knocked Out Cold" Thus having killed the dragon before in either normal or challenge mode and completed the questline from the zone. This means those wanting to fight the dragon can do so by openning those doors killing D'Ina and going after the dragon.Hopefully these changes should make it live next hotfix.

FimisOrbe

06-29-2010, 06:41 PM

thog_zork

06-29-2010, 08:16 PM

<cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just checked in a fix that cleans up the Vrewwx fight as well as fixed the respawn points.</blockquote>Is this including more "hints" ?

Yimway

06-29-2010, 08:39 PM

<cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Exactly. All he says when he ports you back is that you were climbing walls... but I'm guessing that is exactly what is intended (going on pillars -- otherwise why have them there and why have them prevent the effect)? I'm guessing it may be something along the lines of Vrewwx targeting a person that is up there that triggers it, but I doubt I'll know for sure anytime soon since we won't be running the zone.The freeze animation takes a good bit of time (5+ seconds), but what's annoying is that it gets interrupted and most of the time we only ended up seeing the very end (the breathing ice and the circular ice wave). Don't know exactly what the criteria for it is either, we've seen it as early as ~90% or as late at ~50%, which is another annoying thing.</blockquote>When he is aggro with someone not on the pillars, the pillars are safe from the freeze aoe.He only warps people to the center of the room when he is aggro on someone not on the floor in the center.When you are frozen, you are dropped to the bottom of the hate list.All of which is observable by attempting the fight enough times. I would hope with everything I just stated, that only leaves you a couple things to figure out on your own to kill it.

Barx

06-29-2010, 10:49 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>When he is aggro with someone not on the pillars, the pillars are safe from the freeze aoe.He only warps people to the center of the room when he is aggro on someone not on the floor in the center.When you are frozen, you are dropped to the bottom of the hate list.All of which is observable by attempting the fight enough times. I would hope with everything I just stated, that only leaves you a couple things to figure out on your own to kill it.</blockquote>Yeah like I said that's what we concluded as well, we just hit the night's end and didn't get to take many real pulls.

Gninja

06-30-2010, 01:29 PM

No sorry, I didn't add any red messages that the Dragon does to tell you how to defeat him. Doesn't make sense :p

Jrel

07-06-2010, 10:03 AM

Since this is a raid "beginner" zone (judging by the loot quality), how about cutting all of the mobs' hp in half? Then it would take us about an hour (for an average raid-geared guild) to get to the final boss instead of 2.

uchulayi

07-06-2010, 12:41 PM

<cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>I also made the front keep doors allowed to be openned if you have completed the quest "Knocked Out Cold" Thus having killed the dragon before in either normal or challenge mode and completed the questline from the zone. This means those wanting to fight the dragon can do so by openning those doors killing D'Ina and going after the dragon.</blockquote>Quick Question: does every member of the raidforce need to have completed the quest? PS we had our second 'go' in there last night and made it up to Ice Maiden of D'Ina. what a blast - thanks for the hard work on this zone. we also had the good luck to schedule it for the 100% AA weekend - YAY <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />one suggestion - we completed the nameds for the first quest and not realising there was a second quest to pick up (and a third/fourth for all i know ...) we just carried on killing stuff. might be helpful to have an npc pop in the room after killing the last named of each quest so that we can turn it in and pick up the next one .. or is that too lazy? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" />

Gninja

07-06-2010, 05:57 PM

Only one person needs to have completed the quest.

Rocc

07-08-2010, 11:36 AM

Hi Gninja. Having a problem fighting the second Ice Maiden. On the pull she doesn't like to come down from her balcony yet the tank can hit her from the platform. She's out of range for everyone else until the first time were thrown in the air, then she comes down. We tried running off the platform and circling the room but until she throws us the first time, she stays on her balcony. It's happened to us twice now.The other thing is when she gets big and we kill the ice things and return to fight her on the pedestal, we cant see her (target not in range). Yet she was standing right in front of us. Moving her around allows a small window but scouts cant see her back half the time, even when directly behind her. I was actually hitting her back last night while standing directly in front of her. The second she moved I lost the use and of my "behind mob abilities". This happened every time we killed the ice midgets and retuned to the platform.Not sure if its our pull location or if shes bugged but we pull her to center of room and fight her on the platform.Also is there anyway to leave the tamer corpse up longer for peoples updates? Would be cool if we could click the body update after the fight. We had to pull in another tank for the fight and someone had to sit and missed the update. Would have been nice if she could get invite right away and click the corpe for her quest update.

thog_zork

07-08-2010, 04:20 PM

talked with vrewwxxxx triggered hard mode video came .. but no mob spawned ... bugged !

Gninja

07-08-2010, 06:10 PM

<cite>thog_zork wrote:</cite><blockquote>talked with vrewwxxxx triggered hard mode video came .. but no mob spawned ... bugged !</blockquote>Anyone else seeing this? I can't seem to reproduce it.

Adrez

07-08-2010, 06:16 PM

Did the Hoarfrost Pyreflyte today and it crashed half of our raid on every pull. Just plain game freeze, no errors or nothing.Seems to be something to do with the water reflections? Tried with everything turned down and still happened.Mob never done that before, something to do with the update maybe?

Morghus

07-08-2010, 07:07 PM

<cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>thog_zork wrote:</cite><blockquote>talked with vrewwxxxx triggered hard mode video came .. but no mob spawned ... bugged !</blockquote>Anyone else seeing this? I can't seem to reproduce it.</blockquote>Not sure if it is related, but I think I saw this happen before the recent change whenever the video cas skipped as soon as it started.

thog_zork

07-08-2010, 08:30 PM

<cite>Morghus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>thog_zork wrote:</cite><blockquote>talked with vrewwxxxx triggered hard mode video came .. but no mob spawned ... bugged !</blockquote>Anyone else seeing this? I can't seem to reproduce it.</blockquote>Not sure if it is related, but I think I saw this happen before the recent change whenever the video cas skipped as soon as it started.</blockquote>yeah we skipped the video very fast ... and we were very disappointed that no dragon came <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />i can show you our empty instance without a kill in the log <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Gninja

07-08-2010, 09:22 PM

I bet you are one of those people that click through the dialog really quick just to get through it quickly too aren't you :p

Barx

07-08-2010, 10:55 PM

<cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>I bet you are one of those people that click through the dialog really quick just to get through it quickly too aren't you :p</blockquote>EQ2 players really seem to embrace the "tl;dr" school of thought when it comes to quest text.You guys should _really_ put in a quest with a whole bunch of text from the NPC where one of the top entries (the ones folks normally click through) kills you, but says in brackets or something [This option may very well kill you!] for those that actually read. And then put a logger on it where it logs how many people get killed from clicking it =D

Rocc

07-09-2010, 01:55 AM

thog_zork

07-09-2010, 06:37 AM

Gninja

07-09-2010, 11:32 AM

<cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>I bet you are one of those people that click through the dialog really quick just to get through it quickly too aren't you :p</blockquote>EQ2 players really seem to embrace the "tl;dr" school of thought when it comes to quest text.You guys should _really_ put in a quest with a whole bunch of text from the NPC where one of the top entries (the ones folks normally click through) kills you, but says in brackets or something [This option may very well kill you!] for those that actually read. And then put a logger on it where it logs how many people get killed from clicking it =D</blockquote>There was a gnome in Gnomeland Security Headquarters in Steamfont that had the top option of "Throw hot grease in my face" The little gnome npc even asked like 4 times "Are you really sure?" and "This might hurt" then BAM! You were dead. I think since then the option was moved to like the second option heh...

Chock

07-09-2010, 12:33 PM

<cite>Rocc@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>thog_zork wrote:</cite><blockquote>talked with vrewwxxxx triggered hard mode video came .. but no mob spawned ... bugged !</blockquote>Anyone else seeing this? I can't seem to reproduce it.</blockquote>Same thing happened. Video, no dragon.</blockquote>I was told this happened to Test of Time on Kithicor last night as well.

Xill

07-09-2010, 12:36 PM

<cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>I bet you are one of those people that click through the dialog really quick just to get through it quickly too aren't you :p</blockquote>EQ2 players really seem to embrace the "tl;dr" school of thought when it comes to quest text.You guys should _really_ put in a quest with a whole bunch of text from the NPC where one of the top entries (the ones folks normally click through) kills you, but says in brackets or something [This option may very well kill you!] for those that actually read. And then put a logger on it where it logs how many people get killed from clicking it =D</blockquote>There was a gnome in Gnomeland Security Headquarters in Steamfont that had the top option of "Throw hot grease in my face" The little gnome npc even asked like 4 times "Are you really sure?" and "This might hurt" then BAM! You were dead. I think since then the option was moved to like the second option heh...</blockquote>LOL! Never knew. But you know if you stopped to read all of the text for every quest... you would never get anywhere... I have gone a clicking through some quests and was sooo happy I wasnt reading it when wall after wall after wall of text went by. I'm like, ok wow, I wanted to help you but shut up and let me go kill those spiders you asked for jeez.But! Dont get me wrong, some quests lines should be read... good stuff in some of them. But for most of the *meh* quests in the overland zones I am just looking for a reward and something to hit with my stick.

Ristan

07-09-2010, 12:55 PM

I'm all for reading quest text, I don't but I know some people who do.The thing I can't stand, is named mobs going on a monologue for 10 minutes before they actually decide to attack you. IE: Eyeball in labs, final guy in varsoon instance in loping plains etc...that gets anoying.

Gninja

07-09-2010, 01:47 PM

Sometimes monologing can be a villain's major weakness <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" />

Ristan

07-09-2010, 02:08 PM

lol touche, but the least they could do is mix it up a bit instead of running the same monologue <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> IE: How did you adventurers get in here for the 3984327483 time! It completely baffles me cause I am mr. uber raid mob and I didn't get killed last tuesday by you, that was a figment of your imagination!Just pulling your chain <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> thanks for the interesting raid zone, I'd love to see more zones like this that require thinking vs don't do the right dance steps and fail. Not everyone can dance. And icy keep isn't bad, none of the mobs (luckily) have 10 minutes of talkign about how anoyingly uber they are.<img src="http://kyrainetheranger.tripod.com/starsiggirl.gif" /><a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Starseeker/">Starseeker</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Arendul/">Arendul</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Ristan/">Ristan</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Kyraine/">Kyraine</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Saewyn/">Saewyn</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Lyiana/">Lyiana</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Kicx/">Kicx</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Elegi/">Elegi</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Anomandaris/">Anomandaris</a> My Houses: <a class="postlink" href="list.m?topic_id=477978">Starseeker's Suite</a>--<a class="postlink" href="list.m?topic_id=456320">The Tinkerdome 1.0</a>-- <a class="postlink" href="list.m?topic_id=458754">The Tinkerdome 2.0</a>

Yimway

07-09-2010, 03:08 PM

Or we could just have a hotkey to skip to the point...<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=480727" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=480727</a>I find I only read signature quests and raid related quest dialogue the first time I do it, other than that, I'm looking to skip to the task.

Laenai

07-09-2010, 03:11 PM

<cite>Starseeker@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>lol touche, but the least they could do is mix it up a bit instead of running the same monologue <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /> IE: How did you adventurers get in here for the 3984327483 time! It completely baffles me cause I am mr. uber raid mob and I didn't get killed last tuesday by you, that was a figment of your imagination!Just pulling your chain <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /> thanks for the interesting raid zone, I'd love to see more zones like this that require thinking vs don't do the right dance steps and fail. Not everyone can dance. And icy keep isn't bad, none of the mobs (luckily) have 10 minutes of talkign about how anoyingly uber they are.</blockquote> We have decided that the 10 minute monologues (Varsoon, Valdoon, Vark, The Master) should be changed to say "Lawl noobz" and start the fight.

Ristan

07-09-2010, 03:25 PM

<cite>Karimonster wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Starseeker@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>lol touche, but the least they could do is mix it up a bit instead of running the same monologue <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /> IE: How did you adventurers get in here for the 3984327483 time! It completely baffles me cause I am mr. uber raid mob and I didn't get killed last tuesday by you, that was a figment of your imagination!Just pulling your chain <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /> thanks for the interesting raid zone, I'd love to see more zones like this that require thinking vs don't do the right dance steps and fail. Not everyone can dance. And icy keep isn't bad, none of the mobs (luckily) have 10 minutes of talkign about how anoyingly uber they are.</blockquote> We have decided that the 10 minute monologues (Varsoon, Valdoon, Vark, The Master) should be changed to say "Lawl noobz" and start the fight.</blockquote>^^this

Gninja

07-09-2010, 05:50 PM

<cite>Chock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rocc@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>thog_zork wrote:</cite><blockquote>talked with vrewwxxxx triggered hard mode video came .. but no mob spawned ... bugged !</blockquote>Anyone else seeing this? I can't seem to reproduce it.</blockquote>Same thing happened. Video, no dragon.</blockquote>I was told this happened to Test of Time on Kithicor last night as well.</blockquote>Found the issue and will be hotfixing it in asap

Laserfoot

07-09-2010, 08:30 PM

What we need is a major calamity in Norrath...Hence everyone needs to repair a major breakdown,,,such as, an oil leak off of Frostfang...Now that would be a disaster everyone would come to...make sure there is a 150^^^ mob there to prevent them from trying to clear it <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ...<a href="http://bp.concerts.com/gom/kwellsreliefwells062710.htm "></a><a href="http://bp.concerts.com/gom/kwellsreliefwells062710.htm " target="_blank">http://bp.concerts.com/gom/kwellsre...ells062710.htm </a>

Jrel

07-11-2010, 10:12 AM

We didn't get very far last night through Icy Keep due to time constraints, but it only took us an hour to get to the Frozen Corrival. Much thanks on reducing the hp of some of the mobs. We thought the golems took a little long still, but everything else's hp up to that point was just right. Even our most ardent anti-Icy Keepers were positive on the rate of progression.However, having to come back to the zone multiple times to finish quests for quest rewards is still very annoying (Smelly Bag, Dull Blade, etc.). Maybe reduce the requirements on these too by 1/2 or 1/3?

Ristan

07-11-2010, 12:07 PM

We went in here again after some of the changes, and as the above poster states, the HP seemed more reasonable...although to get to the corrival you have to clear both sides which is just a waste of time running back and forth.However, my main concern is too with the quests. The Dull blade takes 6 stones, since you get it off the ice maiden you don't get a stone when you first recieve it, so if you kill the snow beast, you get 1, then the next trip 2, then the next trip 2, then the next trip 1 to complete it, so it takes 4 rounds of killing optional names to get the blade. Seems like this number should be changed to an odd number, since you only get 1 after you get it. Make it 5, or 3.We also have a major issue with the smelly bag. The yeti aren't always droping a pelt. We had 3 encounters that didn't drop one, the first 3 when you get to the yeti area.The wolf parts requires 9. There are only 4 wolf encounters, of those 4 wolf encounters last night 2 droped peices. going at that rate it would require 5 trips in there hoping that all the wolves drop parts....These either need to be reduced, or the quests peices need to be kills or drops on every encounter not a "uncommon" drop.Since this is a starter raid zone, raids aren't really going to spend alot of itme in here, my guild has done this zone proably 6 times, and we are already moving on to palace and labs, even though we haven't killed the ice maiden and only killed the two yeti once. It takes so long to get to the end, that we don't really want to use more than one of our raid nights to get to the end. We were going to split it into parts, do the first half one week and the second half the next, which is probably what we will end up doing, but then those with quests take even longer to complete them. So its a catch 22, we can either start over every raid night and make it to odufe and the other dude before quitting time and get quest updates, or split it up and get to the end.Again if the quest updates were an every update or less it wouldn't be a problem.<img src="http://kyrainetheranger.tripod.com/starsiggirl.gif" /><a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Starseeker/">Starseeker</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Arendul/">Arendul</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Ristan/">Ristan</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Kyraine/">Kyraine</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Saewyn/">Saewyn</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Lyiana/">Lyiana</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Kicx/">Kicx</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Elegi/">Elegi</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Anomandaris/">Anomandaris</a> My Houses: <a class="postlink" href="list.m?topic_id=477978">Starseeker's Suite</a>--<a class="postlink" href="list.m?topic_id=456320">The Tinkerdome 1.0</a>-- <a class="postlink" href="list.m?topic_id=458754">The Tinkerdome 2.0</a>

Yimway

07-12-2010, 12:14 PM

<cite>Starseeker@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>Since this is a starter raid zone, raids aren't really going to spend alot of itme in here, my guild has done this zone proably 6 times, and we are already moving on to palace and lab</blockquote>Lets face it, given the loot / challenge / time component of t9 raid zones, you should only be going to IK if you've already killed everything your guild can do in labs, palace, and toxx's lair.And honestly, all three easy encounters in toxx, labs up to and including the fish guy, and palace up to and including malas is actually easier than IK and offers rewards that are infinitely better. Yes, the only non-challenge encounters that are harder than IK scripts are Sages (barely if not), Rhoen Theer, Perah Celsis and The Hole. Not to mention that you'll probably kill 2x as many named / hour invested, and probably 3x the fabled drops doing the existing t9 raids than IK.IK to me is a failed experiment to implement questing into raiding. I understand there is probably a minority player out there that enjoys 24 players working to complete quests for a handful of players, and enjoy pausing raids for quest turn ins, etc. I know nobody I game with does enjoy those aspects of the zone, and coupled with the time sink and lack of loot, its pretty much game over for IK.

Ristan

07-12-2010, 01:06 PM

Scripts are actually easy for my guild to deal with (I got some excellent dancers), but damage is not easy for us since we typically 3 31/2 group stuff due to lack of people so we can take some lumps but not alot of them. IK was a good solution to this, yes challenging, but something we can do if we are short folks.IK is not easy in it's scripts although for us the only real tough one is Odufe and the other guy and the ice maiden (we haven't got to the dragon yet due to time constraints).My guild actually *LIKES* this zone...maybe I should say "LIKED"...as in past tense after having been in it awhile. Heck I actually liked this zone, it was a breath of fresh air compared to other zones as far as named encounters, but there are so many other things dragging it donw....these 3 things are the things that will drop it off my raid list:1. Quests - Guild members are upset about not getting drops for quests in 1-2 runs, because they know that I am looking for progression and each time we are in here a new quest item drops, it will never end, we will have to run this zone for another 5 months just to get all the quests updated. Quests them selves aren't bad if they are completeable within 1-2 zone ins.2. Length. Killing trash IS ...BOR...RING. We sleep through it, yes the HPs were nerfed, thank you, but the trash is rediculous and it drops worse than garbage loot. I especially abhor the run before corival when you have to run up one side unlock the door then run to the otherside...theres a waste of 15 minutes 9 minutes of it running and making sure that people don't get lost. The only reason my guild wants to do trash past Corrival is to get the drops for the quests...sigh....most of them just want to do the trash mobs and skip the named.3. Loot. My guild is not uber geared. My guild only cleared about half of tso before we went onto sf, we hit TSO some right after the expansion, to get some t4 gear but, in the end we are in t3 from woe, legendary from SF and T1 from SF (boots/gloves/forearms/shoulders). so yes this gear was upgrades for us, but now that we are able to kill stuff in palace, most of it goes untouched or for low DKP....sure the quest items would probably be upgrades if we could ever get them. The patterns are bid on but really we see the same ones over and over...either all healer one night, all fighter one night or all mage one night. We have only had 2 scout peices drop.Those 3 points will probably drive us from this zone, unless we are horribly too short to do anything (this last sat we had 22 people and 5 healers, we did IK instead of palace, if we had more healers we wouldn't have done it)I'ts disappointing because I actually do enjoy the scripts in this zone, just the risk vs reward vs time spent is not there.If the trash was like the Trash in SOH, where they droped masters alot, or decent gear it wouldn't be so bad.<img src="http://kyrainetheranger.tripod.com/starsiggirl.gif" /><a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Starseeker/">Starseeker</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Arendul/">Arendul</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Ristan/">Ristan</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Kyraine/">Kyraine</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Saewyn/">Saewyn</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Lyiana/">Lyiana</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Kicx/">Kicx</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Elegi/">Elegi</a> * <a class="postlink" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/Crushbone/Anomandaris/">Anomandaris</a> My Houses: <a class="postlink" href="list.m?topic_id=477978">Starseeker's Suite</a>--<a class="postlink" href="list.m?topic_id=456320">The Tinkerdome 1.0</a>-- <a class="postlink" href="list.m?topic_id=458754">The Tinkerdome 2.0</a>

ke'la

07-12-2010, 07:51 PM

<cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>I bet you are one of those people that click through the dialog really quick just to get through it quickly too aren't you :p</blockquote>EQ2 players really seem to embrace the "tl;dr" school of thought when it comes to quest text.You guys should _really_ put in a quest with a whole bunch of text from the NPC where one of the top entries (the ones folks normally click through) kills you, but says in brackets or something [This option may very well kill you!] for those that actually read. And then put a logger on it where it logs how many people get killed from clicking it =D</blockquote>There was a gnome in Gnomeland Security Headquarters in Steamfont that had the top option of "Throw hot grease in my face" The little gnome npc even asked like 4 times "Are you really sure?" and "This might hurt" then BAM! You were dead. I think since then the option was moved to like the second option heh...</blockquote>There is also the Dwarf for the Dwarven Ringmail HQ that if you don't fallow is diolog on the correct path he just seems like a Lore teller, and not a quest giver.Wasn't the wrong responce to Naggy in the begining of the Deseption line also the first option?

thog_zork

07-13-2010, 07:26 PM

is the vreeeeewwxxx hotfix live yet ?

Gninja

07-13-2010, 08:11 PM

Should be part of this coming hotfix. I believe it was just pushed to the test server.

Jeckyl

07-14-2010, 06:56 PM

Room of the 2 Brothers, mob KastusRastus the mob you can melee damage without the damage reflection has an issue?If you cast Combat Art Double Up , it one shot kills you? is this considered a magic spell or is it a bug? thanksThis is when they are apart and not joined, myself and another brigand have tried using double up and resulted in instant death. I am guessing this is a bug

Gninja

07-14-2010, 07:02 PM

Thing with Double Up is it repeats everything you have done in the last few seconds. If one of those things is a spell then it will likely kill you. It is also possible that the ability itself is considered a spell even though it doesnt do damage itself since it leads to damage its being checked. Like many abilities for other classes you are just going to have to figure out which abilities will and won't cause you an early grave.

Jeckyl

07-14-2010, 07:32 PM

I understand the concept that double up does not actually hit and may be a magical type of spell that repeats last art used, just was curious why I have not died using it on similiar type of mob.

Oakum

07-14-2010, 07:42 PM

<cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thing with Double Up is it repeats everything you have done in the last few seconds. If one of those things is a spell then it will likely kill you. It is also possible that the ability itself is considered a spell even though it doesnt do damage itself since it leads to damage its being checked. Like many abilities for other classes you are just going to have to figure out which abilities will and won't cause you an early grave.</blockquote>The warden CA's also reflect and why do the ca's which we have to put a lot of points in to use effectively, do less damage then our nuke masters and have a slower recast then the nukes also?

Cawti

07-14-2010, 10:11 PM

<cite>FimisOrbe wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>I also made the front keep doors allowed to be openned if you have completed the quest "Knocked Out Cold" Thus having killed the dragon before in either normal or challenge mode and completed the questline from the zone. This means those wanting to fight the dragon can do so by openning those doors killing D'Ina and going after the dragon.</blockquote>Thank you!So we don't have to click the switches anymore or is it perma unlocked as you have done the Quest?</blockquote>Last week our raid force got around a half dozen folks keyed by completing "Knocked Out Cold" through killing easy mode dragon.This week we went back to a new instance. We successfully opened the doors to D'Ina. We killed D'Ina. However the door to the dragon was iced over. The elevator up was inoperable as well. Thus, there did not seem to be a way to actually proceed to the dragon without going back through and clearing the instance the hard way to reach all 6 levers again. Did we miss something, or is it still not possible to go visit the dragon without clearing the rest of the zone?

LardLord

07-15-2010, 01:36 AM

<cite>Cawti@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>This week we went back to a new instance. We successfully opened the doors to D'Ina. We killed D'Ina. However the door to the dragon was iced over. The elevator up was inoperable as well. Thus, there did not seem to be a way to actually proceed to the dragon without going back through and clearing the instance the hard way to reach all 6 levers again. Did we miss something, or is it still not possible to go visit the dragon without clearing the rest of the zone?</blockquote>Oh goodness, I was afraid this would happen...please fix it!Also, Gninja, while I understand the ez-mode rewards for this zone have to be kinda nubly since the zone is relatively easy (makes sense), what's up with the hard mode loot? Sure he's not super hard, but I'd say that he's definitely harder than Waansu, yet the loot is clearly worse than what drops from Waansu. Seems like the loot should be better...if not that, then the encounter should be nerfed to below Waansu-level, so it at least serves some purpose for guilds trying to break into the hard mode encounters.

Gninja

07-15-2010, 12:00 PM

<cite>Cawti@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>FimisOrbe wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>I also made the front keep doors allowed to be openned if you have completed the quest "Knocked Out Cold" Thus having killed the dragon before in either normal or challenge mode and completed the questline from the zone. This means those wanting to fight the dragon can do so by openning those doors killing D'Ina and going after the dragon.</blockquote>Thank you!So we don't have to click the switches anymore or is it perma unlocked as you have done the Quest?</blockquote>Last week our raid force got around a half dozen folks keyed by completing "Knocked Out Cold" through killing easy mode dragon.This week we went back to a new instance. We successfully opened the doors to D'Ina. We killed D'Ina. However the door to the dragon was iced over. The elevator up was inoperable as well. Thus, there did not seem to be a way to actually proceed to the dragon without going back through and clearing the instance the hard way to reach all 6 levers again. Did we miss something, or is it still not possible to go visit the dragon without clearing the rest of the zone?</blockquote>Will take another look at it this morning.

Jrel

07-18-2010, 12:27 PM

I'm an Assassin from Blackstar Rising. We are an average raiding guild on Butcherblock. Here is a comparison of our damage in PAL, and Lair of Dragon Queen, and Icy Keep. We had the same members in our raidforce on all of the following in one night:From ACT:Takes us about 13 min to kill adds plus Xilaxis the Explorer (PAL), raidwide dps 125K (Actually more than that since I was flying around here and there from the AEs, and stuns)11 min to kill Tuulan, Zaos and Vuulan (LotDQ), raidwide dps 184KThose aren't easy fights, but it takes about 6.5 min to kill Vuulan and 8.5 to kill Xilaxis; and the drops are great/"perfect" for those encounters.Now Icy Keep: It took us 7 min to kill Debitino, 14.5 to kill O &K, 15.5 min to kill Ice Maiden with the same raidforce for drops whose stats are worse than the 50-75 token Mark of Manaar merchant from Moonfield. And Yes, we did exactly what we had do to kill them. We only got one drop (a pattern) from the Ice Maiden. No need to comment about that reward. If the loot needs to stay the same "level", then reduce all their hp by 3/4. Make them 1/4 of their hp. Or lower their epic levels to reflect the reduction. Cut all the ice golem and yeti trash hp by 2/3 as well.Also, during the Ice Maiden fight, the lag gets really bad from all the adds. My Assassin has three Aoe attacks plus an aoe autoattack so I was hitting alot of mobs almost continously; now figure we also had true AOE dpsers in our raidforce. I got kicked out to character select screen twice during the fight, but I'm not sure how that happened since I was fine otherwise the whole night.

Gninja

07-18-2010, 01:26 PM

If you keep the adds under control they don't become overwhelming. The fight can be done by an average raid force that does Lair of the Dragonqueen with only getting 1 or 2 adds per round.The loot is being looked at but I can't comment on what will be changed or when it will happen.

Sydares

07-18-2010, 04:39 PM

On loot... Vrewxx in both of his iterations seem to have an extremely disproportionate risk vs. reward.

Jrel

07-18-2010, 06:14 PM

<cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you keep the adds under control they don't become overwhelming. The fight can be done by an average raid force that does Lair of the Dragonqueen with only getting 1 or 2 adds per round.</blockquote>The huge adds (1-2 per round) were under control. I'm taking about all the little adds that seemed to be causing raid damage spam by our AoEs. Hmm, maybe there's a way to stop those from appearing entirely.

Ambrin

07-18-2010, 08:11 PM

<cite>Nyfe@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you keep the adds under control they don't become overwhelming. The fight can be done by an average raid force that does Lair of the Dragonqueen with only getting 1 or 2 adds per round.</blockquote>The huge adds (1-2 per round) were under control. I'm taking about all the little adds that seemed to be causing raid damage spam by our AoEs. Hmm, maybe there's a way to stop those from appearing entirely.</blockquote>You kill the little adds as they spawn. They have almost no HP and die in seconds when under focus fire. When the statues spawn have your entire raid focus on burning one statues, when the statue dies go on to the next until all the statues are dead or come to life. Designate one off-tank to grab and hold the statues, have that tank and his healers move far away from the rest of the raid. The only person who should ever be stunned by the statues is the OT tanking them. If you get more than 1 statue to come alive per round you may want to put your strongest tank and healer setup on holding down the statues. When undebuffed each of the statues will do more DPS to the OT the Ice Maiden herself (who really does not hit very hard). You can also assign one OT per statue as well if you still have problems. Remember that the adds spawned by the statues despawn whenever the name summons a new set of statues so you do NOT have to kill the statue adds, just OT them.Regarding the zone itself...My guild cleared IK (except for Vrewwx which we will probably kill today) with an x2 raid force on Friday. This included the ice golem twins which we killed with only 1 mage, an illusionist, in raid. We one-pulled everything we tried in that zone when we did it. While we do over gear it, we also had a terrible raid setup and half as many people as the zone is intended for. The zone itself is pretty easy, the main drawback is that a lot of the loot is terrible. We had people who wouldn't even roll on certain pieces for their alts who only had TSO T2 shard armour (including me for my inquisitor). There some nice pieces here and there, but most of the loot is just terrible.My suggestion would be to make the armour more like T1 armour is compared to T2 armour. Keep the critmit the same, but change the stats blue/green/proc stats to the same stats that are on the T1 armour, just in very slightly lower quantities. IE, if a T1 piece has 2.0 crit bonus, potency, 9 crit chance and 50 ability mod than the IK piece would have something like 1.9 cb/pot, 8.5 crit chance, and 45 ability mod. If you keep the critmit on the IK pieces the same as what it is right now than you create a situation where doing IK for the armour is desirable even for people who are still in the process of clearing Labs, Tox, and Palace. Meanwhile you maintain a strong upgrade path as the T1 is still better than the IK pieces stat wise, but also because a lot of T1 pieces will have almost twice the crit mit as the equivalent IK piece.

Jrel

07-19-2010, 01:13 AM

<cite>Ambrin@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote>You kill the little adds as they spawn. They have almost no HP and die in seconds when under focus fire. When the statues spawn have your entire raid focus on burning one statues, when the statue dies go on to the next until all the statues are dead or come to life. Designate one off-tank to grab and hold the statues, have that tank and his healers move far away from the rest of the raid. The only person who should ever be stunned by the statues is the OT tanking them. If you get more than 1 statue to come alive per round you may want to put your strongest tank and healer setup on holding down the statues. When undebuffed each of the statues will do more DPS to the OT the Ice Maiden herself (who really does not hit very hard). You can also assign one OT per statue as well if you still have problems. Remember that the adds spawned by the statues despawn whenever the name summons a new set of statues so you do NOT have to kill the statue adds, just OT them.</blockquote>We're doing something like that. We kill 2-3 of the statues before they come to life each round. No one has ever been stunned during that fight, that's news to me. Thanks for the tip on the little adds.</blockquote>

Vraeth

07-23-2010, 09:31 AM

<cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cawti@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>FimisOrbe wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>I also made the front keep doors allowed to be openned if you have completed the quest "Knocked Out Cold" Thus having killed the dragon before in either normal or challenge mode and completed the questline from the zone. This means those wanting to fight the dragon can do so by openning those doors killing D'Ina and going after the dragon.</blockquote>Thank you!So we don't have to click the switches anymore or is it perma unlocked as you have done the Quest?</blockquote>Last week our raid force got around a half dozen folks keyed by completing "Knocked Out Cold" through killing easy mode dragon.This week we went back to a new instance. We successfully opened the doors to D'Ina. We killed D'Ina. However the door to the dragon was iced over. The elevator up was inoperable as well. Thus, there did not seem to be a way to actually proceed to the dragon without going back through and clearing the instance the hard way to reach all 6 levers again. Did we miss something, or is it still not possible to go visit the dragon without clearing the rest of the zone?</blockquote>Will take another look at it this morning.</blockquote>any update on this one?

Barx

07-23-2010, 09:33 AM

<cite>Vraeth@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>any update on this one?</blockquote>From the other thread (on Vrewwx Iceyheart's loot):<cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>The door not openning properly has been fixed and checked in so should be coming in with the next major patch.</blockquote>

Gninja

07-23-2010, 11:45 AM

Yeah sorry what they said. Responded on wrong post <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" />

Yimway

07-23-2010, 11:56 AM

<cite>Ambrin@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>You kill the little adds as they spawn. They have almost no HP and die in seconds when under focus fire. When the statues spawn have your entire raid focus on burning one statues, when the statue dies go on to the next until all the statues are dead or come to life. Designate one off-tank to grab and hold the statues, have that tank and his healers move far away from the rest of the raid. The only person who should ever be stunned by the statues is the OT tanking them. If you get more than 1 statue to come alive per round you may want to put your strongest tank and healer setup on holding down the statues. When undebuffed each of the statues will do more DPS to the OT the Ice Maiden herself (who really does not hit very hard). You can also assign one OT per statue as well if you still have problems. Remember that the adds spawned by the statues despawn whenever the name summons a new set of statues so you do NOT have to kill the statue adds, just OT them.</blockquote>Or just ignore them completely and have the OT just hold all of them until they respawn when the add event restarts.That way dps doesn't leave the Maiden?It still way too long of a fight for rewards I'd mute from a heroic instance.

Barx

07-23-2010, 12:00 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ambrin@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>You kill the little adds as they spawn. They have almost no HP and die in seconds when under focus fire. When the statues spawn have your entire raid focus on burning one statues, when the statue dies go on to the next until all the statues are dead or come to life. Designate one off-tank to grab and hold the statues, have that tank and his healers move far away from the rest of the raid. The only person who should ever be stunned by the statues is the OT tanking them. If you get more than 1 statue to come alive per round you may want to put your strongest tank and healer setup on holding down the statues. When undebuffed each of the statues will do more DPS to the OT the Ice Maiden herself (who really does not hit very hard). You can also assign one OT per statue as well if you still have problems. Remember that the adds spawned by the statues despawn whenever the name summons a new set of statues so you do NOT have to kill the statue adds, just OT them.</blockquote>Or just ignore them completely and have the OT just hold all of them until they respawn when the add event restarts.That way dps doesn't leave the Maiden?It still way too long of a fight for rewards I'd mute from a heroic instance.</blockquote>The fight is too long, but it doens't have to be. Part of it is stuff that could and probably should be cleaned up in the script: the fact that she heals when spawning the golems you're supposed to burn down, plus her staying animated & invincible for a few seconds even when you burn all 4 golems. If she didn't heal for no reason and that wasted time was taken out then you could easily cut 1, maybe 2 minutes off the fight. She's mainly just a speedbump on the road to Vrewwx.

Gaige

07-23-2010, 03:39 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Or just ignore them completely and have the OT just hold all of them until they respawn when the add event restarts.That way dps doesn't leave the Maiden?It still way too long of a fight for rewards I'd mute from a heroic instance.</blockquote>She goes immune when the adds spawn, no reason to do it the way you describe.

Barx

07-23-2010, 03:46 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Or just ignore them completely and have the OT just hold all of them until they respawn when the add event restarts.That way dps doesn't leave the Maiden?It still way too long of a fight for rewards I'd mute from a heroic instance.</blockquote>She goes immune when the adds spawn, no reason to do it the way you describe.</blockquote>I think he's talking about the small ice shard adds that spawn periodically, not the golems that spawn at the 10's.

Yimway

07-23-2010, 04:58 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Or just ignore them completely and have the OT just hold all of them until they respawn when the add event restarts.That way dps doesn't leave the Maiden?It still way too long of a fight for rewards I'd mute from a heroic instance.</blockquote>She goes immune when the adds spawn, no reason to do it the way you describe.</blockquote>But is the amount of her heal actualy affected by the number you kill?When we did it, didn't seem to. So, we largely just ignored the adds.

Gaige

07-23-2010, 05:11 PM

Why not kill them, what else do you have to do while she is sitting there immune to damage?

Azzad

07-30-2010, 09:22 PM

I would like to know what your thought process was when designing this zone. What wasn't clear when your boss asked you to make an entry level raid zone? I'm not a game designer but it seems you screwed up on the very basics of making it shorter and easier than the current raid zones. If its longer and harder for less rewards then WHAT IS THE POINT OF THIS ZONE?Icy Keep is the worst example of a raid zone I have ever seen in 10 years of playing SOE games. Even if you ignore all the bugs and the horrible loot, the zone fails in concept alone.Edit: On a positive note, I like your presence here in this thread. You seem to genuinley want feedback to improve your work. Something we rarely see nowadays.

Jrel

08-01-2010, 11:51 AM

<cite>Nyfe@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm an Assassin from Blackstar Rising. We are an average raiding guild on Butcherblock. Here is a comparison of our damage in PAL, and Lair of Dragon Queen, and Icy Keep. We had the same members in our raidforce on all of the following in one night:From ACT:Takes us about 13 min to kill adds plus Xilaxis the Explorer (PAL), raidwide dps 125K (Actually more than that since I was flying around here and there from the AEs, and stuns)11 min to kill Tuulan, Zaos and Vuulan (LotDQ), raidwide dps 184KThose aren't easy fights, but it takes about 6.5 min to kill Vuulan and 8.5 to kill Xilaxis; and the drops are great/"perfect" for those encounters.Now Icy Keep: It took us 7 min to kill Debitino, 14.5 to kill O &K, 15.5 min to kill Ice Maiden with the same raidforce for drops whose stats are worse than the 50-75 token Mark of Manaar merchant from Moonfield. And Yes, we did exactly what we had do to kill them. We only got one drop (a pattern) from the Ice Maiden. No need to comment about that reward. If the loot needs to stay the same "level", then reduce all their hp by 3/4. Make them 1/4 of their hp. Or lower their epic levels to reflect the reduction. Cut all the ice golem and yeti trash hp by 2/3 as well.Also, during the Ice Maiden fight, the lag gets really bad from all the adds. My Assassin has three Aoe attacks plus an aoe autoattack so I was hitting alot of mobs almost continously; now figure we also had true AOE dpsers in our raidforce. I got kicked out to character select screen twice during the fight, but I'm not sure how that happened since I was fine otherwise the whole night.</blockquote> Followup info, we did LairDQ and Icy Keep partially last night: Zonewide 178k enc dps for LairDQ, 173K enc dps for Icy Keep. Raidforce 3 groups (an offnight). Fight times inc killing adds/trash.Frozen Beast+adds 106.3 mill hp 8 min fight 10 deaths (yay memwipes)Debetino+adds 80.3 mill hp 7 min fight 14 deaths (more memwipes?)Tuluun, Zaos, Vuulan+adds 135.7 mill hp 12:26 min fight 20 deaths (drac wizards, yay)Xilaxis+trash 120.3 mill hp 14 min fight 29 deaths (ae, stuns, ouch)O&K+trash 17:55 min fight 36 deaths because of the crazy memwipes during the combined phase, and at the last 10%. We did have plenty of snowballs. Would have been more deaths if we let it one-shot us like we did the first week.Best loot from LairDQ and Xilaxis. Icy maiden would have been another 15-16 min fight for 1 drop.

thog_zork

08-02-2010, 02:35 PM

thog_zork

08-02-2010, 03:46 PM

could you consider lowering the add (rejuvenator) hp on hard mode vrewwwwxx ?i fell the dps requirement is little bit over the board ... lowering the add hp by 25% would make this fight certainly more fun ... right now it is stack range dps BURN !

Raetsel

08-03-2010, 10:30 PM

<cite>thog_zork wrote:</cite><blockquote>could you consider lowering the add (rejuvenator) hp on hard mode vrewwwwxx ?i fell the dps requirement is little bit over the board ... lowering the add hp by 25% would make this fight certainly more fun ... right now it is stack range dps BURN !</blockquote>At least we got him down to 31% <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Yimway

08-11-2010, 01:28 PM

Finally went back here this week.The improvements to the zone in terms of lowering HP, and tweaking of scripts was very positive.Positive Observations:1) Trash died in reasonable times2) Trash dropped quest updates more frequently3) Trash fabled drops were more common, though it was the same item 5 times.4) Corrival was much less buggy, no crashing, no encounter reseting.5) The Twins were better for sure. The health % seemed much wider, the aggro dumping not nearly as bad, and the snowballs and axe worked as expected.6) The hp on the Ice Maiden adds were more reasonable. I think we brought in ~450k dps setup, and 50% of the time they were all burned down and no guardian adds, the other 50% a single add. Is this the right level for the target of the zone? not sure.7) Vrewwx no longer catapulted people encased in ice into the air.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" /> The chest piece from completing the quest is actually itemized quite well, and while 5 less CM than T2, the rest of the stats compaired very favorably with he T2 offerings, perhaps even better DPS stats for my class than the T2 dps piece.9) Revive points were *much* better.Negative Observations:1) Twins combined is just a spastic chaos. They aren't remotely controlable while your chasing around for snow balls, and too many pointless deaths occur.2) Ice Maiden's adds should just despawn when she dies.3) Vrewwx is incredibly annoying to position. Almost Trak like in his refusal to move to a tank. I suspect like trak, this is a component of his hitbox and the room he is in. This poses unwarranted mechanics challenges to the fight in my opinion, particularly due to how the ice encasement is designed to be broken.4) The levers to get to Vreewx are incredibly annoying, remove them to just the one in the room. 24 people don't like spending the time to get this to advance, it adds far more annoyance than is needed IMO.5) With exception to the chest, the loot for the rest of the zone is still *aweful* for the time spent. Suggestions:First off the levers, once they've been done once, they need to be done forever. It is particularly frustrating that the levers are also part of the quest updates, so we generally will have to deal with this each and every time we ever go back here. Quests. This should be designed more into a line of quests that don't require going back to NPC's in and out of zone to progress. Changing the quests rewards to drop the starters for the next one would be so much better. Or having an item that summons a ghost gobby to do quest dialoge with, whatever. The zone itself is a maze, one that is particularly dissorienting if you actually know the zone it was copied from. Having a raid full of people on different quest steps, needing different npc's at different times is frustrating. As a raid leader I can't stop 24 people everytime 1 person needs something. It puts me in a position of upseting one person or upsetting 23 people. In either case, I've just upset someone I'd rather keep happy. Lastly from the item drop quests, we've been thru the zone 3 times now, and most of us still don't have the kill updates needed for the item, is this the amount of repeating you intended for them?Itemization. Demonstrated by how little the zone is used, and how few guilds are progressing very far in it, I think it is reasonable to up the itemization. I've heard that is in the works, but without it, the zone just isn't offering enough reward. Anyone capable of finishing the quest to get the chest piece is capable of killing the mob that drops t2 chests. Last night we finally finished the zone, and I was shocked how many patterns were server disco'd not to mention all the actual pieces from the turn in. But even then, almost every one of us dropped the reward on an alt, as we all for the most part have t2 chests already.Twins. For the intended audience, change combined to be a rooted mob that one shots people who get within say 20 meters, and require the snowballs to still break them down, until he gets to the last combine to be killed. Making the strat more to get away from combined and pelt him. Optionally reduce its runspeed a bit.What sets me off here, is I can't see on any progression boards where a guild is killing Vrewwx who hasn't already killed the EM fish guy in labs. So to me, either the challenge of the zone is too high, or the rewards are still too low.

Pervis

08-11-2010, 02:10 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>What sets me off here, is I can't see on any progression boards where a guild is killing Vrewwx who hasn't already killed the EM fish guy in labs. So to me, either the challenge of the zone is too high, or the rewards are still too low.</blockquote>I agree with this, but then I have already relegated this zone in my mind to a single named instance, with one trash mob to kill before that named.The rest of the zone misses any mark it may have been aimed at, one way or the other.

Gninja

08-13-2010, 11:23 AM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Finally went back here this week.The improvements to the zone in terms of lowering HP, and tweaking of scripts was very positive.Positive Observations:1) Trash died in reasonable times2) Trash dropped quest updates more frequently3) Trash fabled drops were more common, though it was the same item 5 times.4) Corrival was much less buggy, no crashing, no encounter reseting.5) The Twins were better for sure. The health % seemed much wider, the aggro dumping not nearly as bad, and the snowballs and axe worked as expected.6) The hp on the Ice Maiden adds were more reasonable. I think we brought in ~450k dps setup, and 50% of the time they were all burned down and no guardian adds, the other 50% a single add. Is this the right level for the target of the zone? not sure.7) Vrewwx no longer catapulted people encased in ice into the air.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" /> The chest piece from completing the quest is actually itemized quite well, and while 5 less CM than T2, the rest of the stats compaired very favorably with he T2 offerings, perhaps even better DPS stats for my class than the T2 dps piece.9) Revive points were *much* better.Negative Observations:1) Twins combined is just a spastic chaos. They aren't remotely controlable while your chasing around for snow balls, and too many pointless deaths occur.2) Ice Maiden's adds should just despawn when she dies.3) Vrewwx is incredibly annoying to position. Almost Trak like in his refusal to move to a tank. I suspect like trak, this is a component of his hitbox and the room he is in. This poses unwarranted mechanics challenges to the fight in my opinion, particularly due to how the ice encasement is designed to be broken.4) The levers to get to Vreewx are incredibly annoying, remove them to just the one in the room. 24 people don't like spending the time to get this to advance, it adds far more annoyance than is needed IMO.5) With exception to the chest, the loot for the rest of the zone is still *aweful* for the time spent. Suggestions:First off the levers, once they've been done once, they need to be done forever. It is particularly frustrating that the levers are also part of the quest updates, so we generally will have to deal with this each and every time we ever go back here. Quests. This should be designed more into a line of quests that don't require going back to NPC's in and out of zone to progress. Changing the quests rewards to drop the starters for the next one would be so much better. Or having an item that summons a ghost gobby to do quest dialoge with, whatever. The zone itself is a maze, one that is particularly dissorienting if you actually know the zone it was copied from. Having a raid full of people on different quest steps, needing different npc's at different times is frustrating. As a raid leader I can't stop 24 people everytime 1 person needs something. It puts me in a position of upseting one person or upsetting 23 people. In either case, I've just upset someone I'd rather keep happy. Lastly from the item drop quests, we've been thru the zone 3 times now, and most of us still don't have the kill updates needed for the item, is this the amount of repeating you intended for them?Itemization. Demonstrated by how little the zone is used, and how few guilds are progressing very far in it, I think it is reasonable to up the itemization. I've heard that is in the works, but without it, the zone just isn't offering enough reward. Anyone capable of finishing the quest to get the chest piece is capable of killing the mob that drops t2 chests. Last night we finally finished the zone, and I was shocked how many patterns were server disco'd not to mention all the actual pieces from the turn in. But even then, almost every one of us dropped the reward on an alt, as we all for the most part have t2 chests already.Twins. For the intended audience, change combined to be a rooted mob that one shots people who get within say 20 meters, and require the snowballs to still break them down, until he gets to the last combine to be killed. Making the strat more to get away from combined and pelt him. Optionally reduce its runspeed a bit.What sets me off here, is I can't see on any progression boards where a guild is killing Vrewwx who hasn't already killed the EM fish guy in labs. So to me, either the challenge of the zone is too high, or the rewards are still too low.</blockquote>Thanks for the feedback. I will take a look at some of those negative points and see if there is anything I can do in a reasonable amount of time.