Help With Tank choice [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Landiin

05-25-2010, 03:46 PM

Bruener

05-25-2010, 04:17 PM

<cite>Toranx@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bruener wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jackem wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hey Folks Brand new to eq 2 and looking for a MT Tank but Ot is also fine . My choices so far are Guardian , Paladin , Monk , Bruiser . I don't like ez mode and often like using sword and board as well as a 2 hander as duel wield has never been my thing .</blockquote>Just the fact you are looking to have a MT tank you should roll a Guard. They are still the best MTs and will always be looked at fitting that role the best.</blockquote>For most guilds replacing their MT and none ultra endgame guilds this is no longer fact in SF and you know it.</blockquote>While SOME guilds seem to be replacing their MT with Paladins a little more at this time it is no secret that everybody envisions Guards as the MT. They still have the BEST tools for that. Its just when a Guard leaves now and a guild has had a real good Pally/Zerk/SK OT why wouldn't you use them? They are geared for the content already, have been playing with the guild for a while in most cases, and the odds fo finding a quality Guard out there is about nil unless you are stealing them from another raiding force. Its not like you are going to want to pick up a completely under-geared noob Guard and throw him in the MT spot.That being said I have already agreed that some adjustments could be done to make the class more enjoyable to play, keeping some of the better tank players playing the class and also encouraging some other future quality tanks into rollign the class. But, based on how everybody envisions the Guard as being the solid choice for MT the tweaks will definitely come to ensure that. It still comes down to nobody takes the hits or punishment like Guards...nobody.

Grumpy_Warrior_01

05-25-2010, 05:41 PM

Yimway

05-25-2010, 05:57 PM

<cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Given your preferences listed, Paladin is probably the best choice.</blockquote>Except he doesn't like easymode.</blockquote>Thats fine, he can set his goal to parse respectfully, cause honestly, most paladins can't.

Wasuna

05-26-2010, 01:08 PM

<cite>Bruener wrote:</cite><blockquote>While SOME guilds seem to be replacing their MT with Paladins a little more at this time it is no secret that everybody envisions Guards as the MT. They still have the BEST tools for that. Its just when a Guard leaves now and a guild has had a real good Pally/Zerk/SK OT why wouldn't you use them? They are geared for the content already, have been playing with the guild for a while in most cases, and the odds fo finding a quality Guard out there is about nil unless you are stealing them from another raiding force. Its not like you are going to want to pick up a completely under-geared noob Guard and throw him in the MT spot.That being said I have already agreed that some adjustments could be done to make the class more enjoyable to play, keeping some of the better tank players playing the class and also encouraging some other future quality tanks into rollign the class. But, based on how everybody envisions the Guard as being the solid choice for MT the tweaks will definitely come to ensure that. It still comes down to nobody takes the hits or punishment like Guards...nobody.</blockquote>Any serious raider knows the facts. That's why the best, fastest progressing raid group on my server uses a Shadowknight for MT and has for a couple of years. Every raid I have been in this expansion has had a SK MT. The 1% extra survivabilty that a Guardian provides in no way compensates for the benefits of using a Crusader as MT.Quit trying to base what 'people envision' off the charachter description in the charachter creation screen. That is so out of date that is completely rediculious for you to even try to use that.What people envision is the Tank running into a room on 20 mobs, agroing them all, staying alive and killing them in one big group. This is what Crusaders do, not Guardians and it is the current expetations of all classes in the game. It's endlessly frustrating as a Guardian to have the healer tell me to pull the whole room without understanding that a Guardian can only agro 8 mobs at a time and that reinforcement only jumps me up one hate position and only does a redicusiously low taunt amount.Guardians that say they agro the whole zone have all that nifty fabled gear that proc 4K taunts and also are grouped with raid people that don't care that a yellow ^^^ is beating on a wizard since he can tank it anyway.Once again Breuner, get it straight.

Draylore

05-26-2010, 04:35 PM

<cite>Bruener wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jackem wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hey Folks Brand new to eq 2 and looking for a MT Tank but Ot is also fine . My choices so far are Guardian , Paladin , Monk , Bruiser . I don't like ez mode and often like using sword and board as well as a 2 hander as duel wield has never been my thing .</blockquote>Just the fact you are looking to have a MT tank you should roll a Guard. They are still the best MTs and will always be looked at fitting that role the best.</blockquote>You can't be serious. We can argue all day about the state of tanks but you can't seriosuly believe that Guardian would be a good choice for someone starting out? Especially with the current state of the game.....who in the hell is gonna take him/her as MT? He would be in for a world of frustration simply trying to level up let alone trying to get into a MT spot for a guild or raid force. Every raid force out there has a MT....and even the ones that have to replace have a line a mile long of crusader alts ready and geared.I just can't believe anyone would recommend Guardian to someone new to EQ2.

arksun

05-26-2010, 05:29 PM

<cite>Draylore wrote:</cite><blockquote>You can't be serious. We can argue all day about the state of tanks but you can't seriosuly believe that Guardian would be a good choice for someone starting out? Especially with the current state of the game.....who in the hell is gonna take him/her as MT? He would be in for a world of frustration simply trying to level up let alone trying to get into a MT spot for a guild or raid force. Every raid force out there has a MT....and even the ones that have to replace have a line a mile long of crusader alts ready and geared.I just can't believe anyone would recommend Guardian to someone new to EQ2. </blockquote>As of now, Guardian is the worst (plate) tank class you can pick for anything, I cannot comment on brawlers because unlike other people I don't have enough facts on the class to make an assumption.If you want to excel as of this xpac either role an SK or a zerker, both class's will give you what you want out of all aspects of the game. If any raid guild is using a Guardian as MT its probably (99%) due to the fact they have either been in that guild for a while or the guild they are in just has not realized how powerfull an SK is as the MT of their raid force.Personally if they would make a potion to unadorn items from your character I would strip my Guardian and delete the character... just IMO and I have played one of the warrior class's since launch.

Bruener

05-26-2010, 06:21 PM

<cite>Forsho@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Draylore wrote:</cite><blockquote>You can't be serious. We can argue all day about the state of tanks but you can't seriosuly believe that Guardian would be a good choice for someone starting out? Especially with the current state of the game.....who in the hell is gonna take him/her as MT? He would be in for a world of frustration simply trying to level up let alone trying to get into a MT spot for a guild or raid force. Every raid force out there has a MT....and even the ones that have to replace have a line a mile long of crusader alts ready and geared.I just can't believe anyone would recommend Guardian to someone new to EQ2. </blockquote>As of now, Guardian is the worst (plate) tank class you can pick for anything, I cannot comment on brawlers because unlike other people I don't have enough facts on the class to make an assumption.If you want to excel as of this xpac either role an SK or a zerker, both class's will give you what you want out of all aspects of the game. If any raid guild is using a Guardian as MT its probably (99%) due to the fact they have either been in that guild for a while or the guild they are in just has not realized how powerfull an SK is as the MT of their raid force.Personally if they would make a potion to unadorn items from your character I would strip my Guardian and delete the character... just IMO and I have played one of the warrior class's since launch.</blockquote>It wasn't that long ago that people would have laughed at this statement, and its amazing how short peoples memories are when it comes down to it.The reason I recommended Guard is because he specifically stated the intent was to MT. Guard has been and always will be the class people think of when they think MT. Yes, we know as of right now it doesn't seem so obvious....but don't you think that SOE recognizes that as much as everybody else? In fact...by the time a new player to the game actually gets to max level and max AAs odds are things will be completely different. My recommendation is based on rolling a class based on what their aim is in the game.Of course he could easily roll up a Zerker for easier leveling (not that leveling is remotely hard for any class in this game) and than betray. But than you miss out on all the key time of getting used to abilities as you level up...something that you can find lacking in a lot of tanks that decide to power level or betray.In RoK of course when asked what fighter class to roll.....it was all about rolling a Guard...pretty much for any situation.

Landiin

05-26-2010, 06:25 PM

No one thinks they need a guard as MT any more Bruener NO ONE. Wake up man this is SF this isn't RoK.

BChizzle

05-26-2010, 06:27 PM

In summary, if this was 2007-2008 you can listen to Bruener, for the rest of us that don't live in time warped reality guard is not the choice for you.

arksun

05-26-2010, 06:40 PM

Sadly its the same attempts to troll a thread to downplay the + & - of the crusader class. Everyone in this game knows who actually raids on a high end level that a Guard is NOT the best choice for MT. Someone who has not played a warrior since launch is not going to convince me that I am wrong in saying this .... because I have played a warrior since launch.I have not seen one guard even come remotely close to what I have accomplished on my Guard this xpac, and it was a grind to do it everynight. I have played my zerker for maybe 2 weeks in a raiding enviorement and its night and day difference, and everyone knows what an SK can do in heroic / raid enviroment.The trolls will keep going, bruener will make as many comments as he can to save balancing his class with other fighters. Its an arguement that will not stop, what I am telling you with my last statement and this one is.Guardian is the worse plate tank class to pick in a raid/heroic enviorment, hands down. If another Guardian wants to come here and challenge me against that, I will gladly open in a civilize debate on the subject, just make sure you bring all the facts to the table and you can do more than say "whine this" "whine that".No offense to you bruener, but people need to realize comments made by a poster like this will always just be a negative bait to arguement. In which it takes the "light" off of the real topic at hand and turns any conversation into a 1 vs 1 arguement.Pick an Sk or a Zerker and you will actually enjoy playing the game, I gave up on Xelgad the new mechanics dev. Either you play the flavor of the "year" or you fight through it doing the best job you can do, sadly with many high end raiding guilds they are only worried about 1 thing and that is completion, which isn't a bad thing, but it does not help your cause when trying to justify a spot in raid for your class.

Bruener

05-26-2010, 08:32 PM

If you roll the class based on the way they are this very second you are a [Removed for Content]. Instead you should roll the class based on what you want to do and the class most expected to fill that roll....YES BASED ON CLASS DESCRIPTION.If you don't roll based on the role you intend to fill than you are going to be like a couple of these other cry babies on these forums that rolled a class based completely on what the class was doing at the time.Or, you can follow all the other FoTM players and betray back and forth and whine everytime things change in your class.Its pretty naive to think that SOE isn't going to completely shift things back to making Guards the best MT. The AAs this xpac already showed a moving towards that, and it is only going to get more obvious.Now, if you plan on doing mostly heroic or playing more of an OT type role than Guard definitely is not the choice to go with.Gratz all you others on giving the OP terrible advice.

Eritius

05-26-2010, 09:52 PM

How are they giving the OP terrible advice? If you want to Tank, roll a fighter and have up to 6 flavors to choose from. Guardians being the only MT for progression is an outdated belief. If it were true then what would be the roles of Crusaders and Brawlers? Offtanks? Why not just use more guardians for that with that belief? Surely you're not suggesting Crusaders and Brawlers fill a DPS slot. I'm not opening that can of worms, but feel free to.

Rahatmattata

05-26-2010, 11:35 PM

If Brownie Mittens says "Back in RoK..." one more time I'm going to stab a puppy.

Bruener

05-27-2010, 12:14 AM

<cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote>If Brownie Mittens says "Back in RoK..." one more time I'm going to stab a puppy.</blockquote>What you using for the stabbing Rat-boy?

Bruener

05-27-2010, 12:17 AM

<cite>Jackem wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hey Folks Brand new to eq 2 and looking for a MT Tank but Ot is also fine . My choices so far are Guardian , Paladin , Monk , Bruiser . I don't like ez mode and often like using sword and board as well as a 2 hander as duel wield has never been my thing .</blockquote>Here let me post the OP again for you people that can't seem to read.He wants a MT tank. Choices are Guard/Pal/Monk/Bruiser. He does not want EZ mode (Pal out). Does not like to DW (Brawlers out).WOW WHAT DOES THAT LEAVE.Some of you have way too much time on your hands and really need to cool the flames.

Landiin

05-27-2010, 12:44 AM

<cite>Bruener wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jackem wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hey Folks Brand new to eq 2 and looking for a MT Tank but Ot is also fine . My choices so far are Guardian , Paladin , Monk , Bruiser . I don't like ez mode and often like using sword and board as well as a 2 hander as duel wield has never been my thing .</blockquote>Here let me post the OP again for you people that can't seem to read.He wants a MT tank. Choices are Guard/Pal/Monk/Bruiser. He does not want EZ mode (Pal out). Does not like to DW (Brawlers out).WOW WHAT DOES THAT LEAVE.Some of you have way too much time on your hands and really need to cool the flames.</blockquote>One small problem with that Bru, In order for a guard to efficiently MT he has to DW, so the guard is out. Leaving the Pally the only choice. I would think you would know this by now man.

Siatfallen

05-27-2010, 05:30 AM

OP, if you do not want to read through the whining above, let me summarize for you:You don't want a brawler - we dual wield all the time.That leaves you Paladins and Guardians.Between those two, Paladins are currently the most powerful class over all, although amends may annoy you and look like ez-mode.Guardians are weaker as a matter of fact at the moment, and they use dual-wielding, depending on their situation. On the other hand, they were designed to be the best MTs in the game. That's not exactly how it works right now, but that was, at least the intent.My personal advice? Start a paladin. Level up a warrior on the side, for whenever they're useful again. If you end up having more fun with the guard, switch. Done, problem solved. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Yimway

05-27-2010, 11:34 AM

<cite>Siatfallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Guardians are weaker as a matter of fact at the moment, and they use dual-wielding, depending on their situation. On the other hand, they were designed to be the best MTs in the game. That's not exactly how it works right now, but that was, at least the intent.</blockquote>That was the design and intent of people who are no longer designers or developers here.It honestly doesn't have any weight going forward.Base your decision on what the game is today, and as I've already said based upon the OP requirements, Paladin is the best sollution. He may find holding aggro easy with the class, but he can focus on actually parsing respectfully to still have a 'challenge' with it.

Boucu

05-27-2010, 11:44 AM

If guardians can parse close to an SK, i think guardians would be more suited for the raid MT role, since they do take damage alot better than SK's do.

Eritius

05-27-2010, 12:32 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siatfallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Guardians are weaker as a matter of fact at the moment, and they use dual-wielding, depending on their situation. On the other hand, they were designed to be the best MTs in the game. That's not exactly how it works right now, but that was, at least the intent.</blockquote>That was the design and intent of people who are no longer designers or developers here.It honestly doesn't have any weight going forward.Base your decision on what the game is today, and as I've already said based upon the OP requirements, Paladin is the best sollution. He may find holding aggro easy with the class, but he can focus on actually parsing respectfully to still have a 'challenge' with it.</blockquote>Oh no, he's right Atan. They WERE designed that way before. He used a keyword in his statment. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/47941865eb7bbc2a777305b46cc059a2.gif" border="0" />

Rahatmattata

05-27-2010, 12:44 PM

Play a berserker tbh.

MaCloud1032

05-27-2010, 01:41 PM

I gotta say go zerker. You can realy change up your playstyle more. If you are tanking more heroic stuff then this is the better ckoice. Much less fusterating. If you find your self raid tanking you can always swap to guard. This will set you up for the possabe best of bothworlds

Raahl

05-27-2010, 01:43 PM

Out of your choices go Paladin.But honestly you'd be better as a ShadowKnight or Berserker.

Draylore

05-27-2010, 02:06 PM

<cite>Bruener wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you roll the class based on the way they are this very second you are a [Removed for Content]. Instead you should roll the class based on what you want to do and the class most expected to fill that roll....YES BASED ON CLASS DESCRIPTION.If you don't roll based on the role you intend to fill than you are going to be like a couple of these other cry babies on these forums that rolled a class based completely on what the class was doing at the time.Or, you can follow all the other FoTM players and betray back and forth and whine everytime things change in your class.Its pretty naive to think that SOE isn't going to completely shift things back to making Guards the best MT. The AAs this xpac already showed a moving towards that, and it is only going to get more obvious.Now, if you plan on doing mostly heroic or playing more of an OT type role than Guard definitely is not the choice to go with.Gratz all you others on giving the OP terrible advice.</blockquote>If you role a class based on some false interpretation of outdated class description your a [Removed for Content].Gotta play in the now and try to look at recent design trends and direction the game is going.With each passing day the game is steering away from single nitch rolled classes like Guardian. Everything is about speed....get things done as fast as possible. The playerbase has become used to tanks being more than just tanks.....they expect them to be at the top of the dmg parse and be able to pull zones at will, lock aggro with ease so they can pew pew pew without worry. That is 180deg counter to what a class like Guard is...or even was....and even more true for a new Guardian.If you think SOE is all the sudden gonna switch things back so a class like Guard actually makes a difference or is desired your a fool.The direction of the game......and the vision of the classes is pretty clear and has been for at least 2 years now.To the OP.....Your best choice IMO would be Paladin...or Zerker.

Prestissimo

05-28-2010, 05:16 AM

Despite the choices listed, Paladin would be the best choice only if you are going to have the capacity to get into good gear and are willing to crunch numbers and learn how to manipulate agro to your benefit so that you're not limited by amends which is not nearly as easy as simply adding more dps on a zerker or sk. The paladin by nature gets most of their hate based on the player's skill at manipulating and generating hate OR by just having beast mode dps.Honestly, in terms of starting out in tanking and being new to EQ2, you will not have such knowledge already at your disposal so you will have to expirement and learn which is unfortunately more difficult than it should be due to alot of easy to flare up tempers that will quickly pop a "stop sucking and l2p".Either crusader or a zerker will be fun and will allow you to get into tanking as you level through the game solo, but once you get to the cap level ranges, rolling an SK or zerker will give you much more padding to get use to the massive difference in difficulty respectively, and then jumping into a paladin will be insanely easier with that experience of dpsing for your hate.Tanking early game and tanking current expansion even in moderately difficult heroic zones is absolutely incomparable.The only reason I'm posting this is because I've played all of the tank classes to at least level 60, and played 4 of them up to level 80 prior to Sentinal's Fate going live, and having been through that I'm offering my best advise to ease into a tanking role via your own means rather than trying to just blaze in there and count on others to give you tips and point you into the direction that fits you. Everyone learns to tank differently, and everyone does it very slightly different, and that little difference is what seperates a bad tank from a good tank and a good tank from a beast of a tank. Just fwiw.

Wasuna

06-02-2010, 10:51 AM

<cite>ReverendPaqo wrote:</cite><blockquote>Despite the choices listed, Paladin would be the best choice only if you are going to have the capacity to get into good gear and are willing to crunch numbers and learn how to manipulate agro to your benefit so that you're not limited by amends which is not nearly as easy as simply adding more dps on a zerker or sk. The paladin by nature gets most of their hate based on the player's skill at manipulating and generating hate OR by just having beast mode dps.Honestly, in terms of starting out in tanking and being new to EQ2, you will not have such knowledge already at your disposal so you will have to expirement and learn which is unfortunately more difficult than it should be due to alot of easy to flare up tempers that will quickly pop a "stop sucking and l2p".Either crusader or a zerker will be fun and will allow you to get into tanking as you level through the game solo, but once you get to the cap level ranges, rolling an SK or zerker will give you much more padding to get use to the massive difference in difficulty respectively, and then jumping into a paladin will be insanely easier with that experience of dpsing for your hate.Tanking early game and tanking current expansion even in moderately difficult heroic zones is absolutely incomparable.The only reason I'm posting this is because I've played all of the tank classes to at least level 60, and played 4 of them up to level 80 prior to Sentinal's Fate going live, and having been through that I'm offering my best advise to ease into a tanking role via your own means rather than trying to just blaze in there and count on others to give you tips and point you into the direction that fits you. Everyone learns to tank differently, and everyone does it very slightly different, and that little difference is what seperates a bad tank from a good tank and a good tank from a beast of a tank. Just fwiw.</blockquote>Really? Run a parser and if you lose agro, see who is toping the DPS and put amends on them. That's how Paladin's get and keep agro. I do that with Moderate and while it helps that DPS it helps me very little.As for the 'beast mode DPS' why don't you try to play a class that has just as many taunts as you do, has no option for 'beat mode DPS' and doesn't have Amends.Everybody needs a basic understanding of their class but in the end, Crusaders are easy. Heck, all classes are pretty easy to play, which is not implying that all classes can do their job in the current state of the expetations of the players of the game.If everybody would just put Breuner on ignore then we could just avoid all of his thread derailing and totally sideways comments about 'How SK's should be kept the primary choice of tank and DPS for every situation".

MurFalad

06-04-2010, 08:08 AM

<cite>Draylore wrote:</cite><blockquote>With each passing day the game is steering away from single nitch rolled classes like Guardian. Everything is about speed....get things done as fast as possible. The playerbase has become used to tanks being more than just tanks.....they expect them to be at the top of the dmg parse and be able to pull zones at will, lock aggro with ease so they can pew pew pew without worry. That is 180deg counter to what a class like Guard is...or even was....and even more true for a new Guardian.If you think SOE is all the sudden gonna switch things back so a class like Guard actually makes a difference or is desired your a fool.The direction of the game......and the vision of the classes is pretty clear and has been for at least 2 years now.To the OP.....Your best choice IMO would be Paladin...or Zerker.</blockquote>Yep, I'd recommend a paladin there, I like my Guardian but for dungeon content designed the way it is currently with multiple groups of mobs that just stand in melee range fundementally they suit a crusader class much more. The only thing I would say is that if you do not enjoy a class then its a bad choice to pick whatever even if it is the current flavour of the month, and all tank classes are viable.As for the game design comments, I agree it is going in that direction, progress is to have the next encounter with the same identically dumb AI mobs but just a few more of them and its easy to please people in the short term with quicker, easier faster "rewards".WoW had exactly the same problem a couple of years ago where one class was an AoE tank and everyone else was single target, and they solved their multiple tank problem by making them all effectively crusaders. About the same time their subscriber base stopped growing by their own admission, probably due to this and other moronic gameplay decisions and even their chief designer recently said he'd like to cut down on some of the AoE...But I still expect that we'll fall into the same hole as them, the future fix will be to make all warriors AoE tank the same so we can mindlessly farm dungeons at high speed, WoW right now gives an excellent example of how when the game design degenerates into new content just giving virtual pixels faster the actual gameplay kind of gets neglected. I really hope the EQ2 devs don't follow course here and find a more interesting way to fix the problem of the AoE tank always being king when survivability is roughly equal/matters (which it has to be otherwise just like in pre RoK were Guardians were then king and everyone else a second choice) . Sorry to derail the thread, but I did at least answer the OP's original question <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

shacub

07-23-2010, 02:17 PM

I'm looking to come back to game and when I left I loved to play brawlers. Tanked a little on my monk in expansion before rok...forgot name and bruiser some in rok. With that being said and reading some of the other stuff being said are brawlers no longer getting spots for tanking and if its true, would leveling up my alt zerker prob be best? I like tanking and just wanna play something that will help out and get groups.

Obadiah

07-23-2010, 02:26 PM

<cite>shacub wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm looking to come back to game and when I left I loved to play brawlers. Tanked a little on my monk in expansion before rok...forgot name and bruiser some in rok. With that being said and reading some of the other stuff being said are brawlers no longer getting spots for tanking and if its true, would leveling up my alt zerker prob be best? I like tanking and just wanna play something that will help out and get groups.</blockquote>Brawlers make fine tanks; IMO their overall balance on that front is much better than it has been in years. Unfortunately much of the population is still biased against them tanking. Maybe this is because some people play them and don't like to tank, maybe it's because they didn't necessarily make the best tanks in days gone by. Whatever.If you want random groups as a tank the safe bet is Zerker or Crusader. If you're constantly going to be grouping with people you know, any of the 6 fighters is perfectly fine .... pending the hitherto unlisted "mechanics changes" are that will come out in GU57.

shacub

07-23-2010, 02:37 PM

<cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Brawlers make fine tanks; IMO their overall balance on that front is much better than it has been in years. Unfortunately much of the population is still biased against them tanking. Maybe this is because some people play them and don't like to tank, maybe it's because they didn't necessarily make the best tanks in days gone by. Whatever.If you want random groups as a tank the safe bet is Zerker or Crusader. If you're constantly going to be grouping with people you know, any of the 6 fighters is perfectly fine .... pending the hitherto unlisted "mechanics changes" are that will come out in GU57.</blockquote>Are zerkers really that good these days? Some of the reading I did, when considering to come back during tso, had a lot of negative things to say about zerks..

Obadiah

07-23-2010, 02:58 PM

<cite>shacub wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Brawlers make fine tanks; IMO their overall balance on that front is much better than it has been in years. Unfortunately much of the population is still biased against them tanking. Maybe this is because some people play them and don't like to tank, maybe it's because they didn't necessarily make the best tanks in days gone by. Whatever.If you want random groups as a tank the safe bet is Zerker or Crusader. If you're constantly going to be grouping with people you know, any of the 6 fighters is perfectly fine .... pending the hitherto unlisted "mechanics changes" are that will come out in GU57.</blockquote>Are zerkers really that good these days? Some of the reading I did, when considering to come back during tso, had a lot of negative things to say about zerks..</blockquote>They were far better in TSO than they were in RoK partially because the content was so AE/AOE oriented. They are even better now, particularly defensively. In terms of single target DPS they have lost considerable ground against Crusaders. That gets masked by the AOE nature of much of the content - even things that are single target ^^^ mobs ... you're going to want to pull more than one because most mobs hit like noodles. All things being equal (gear, skill, buffs) neither Warrior can match a Crusader, but Zerks come closer than their counterparts and really have nothing to complain about ... yet.

shacub

07-23-2010, 03:13 PM

so as for being a challenge, either warriors or brawlers will have plenty of that for tanking?

Blu

07-24-2010, 07:57 PM

<cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>shacub wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm looking to come back to game and when I left I loved to play brawlers. Tanked a little on my monk in expansion before rok...forgot name and bruiser some in rok. With that being said and reading some of the other stuff being said are brawlers no longer getting spots for tanking and if its true, would leveling up my alt zerker prob be best? I like tanking and just wanna play something that will help out and get groups.</blockquote>Brawlers make fine tanks; IMO their overall balance on that front is much better than it has been in years. Unfortunately much of the population is still biased against them tanking. Maybe this is because some people play them and don't like to tank, maybe it's because they didn't necessarily make the best tanks in days gone by. Whatever.If you want random groups as a tank the safe bet is Zerker or Crusader. If you're constantly going to be grouping with people you know, any of the 6 fighters is perfectly fine .... pending the hitherto unlisted "mechanics changes" are that will come out in GU57.</blockquote>A lot of people lump brawlers together when talking about their relative merits/ease as a tank, but Bruisers have some AAs that make AE aggro fairly easy (e.g. Aggressive Beatdown and Wild Beatings) whereas it's tougher for Monks. Otherwise they are fairly equal in survivability with bruisers supposedly getting a dps advantage and also have much better abilities for OT purposes (better avoid buff, Soak Hit, etc.).

Alfeo

07-24-2010, 08:34 PM

Our guild uses a guardian (MT) and SK/Monk as offtanks. I think our guardian is very good and I wouldn't want another MT in his place but I do also understand that this isn't the norm anymore for many other guilds. We've also had our guardian for quite a while and hes very very skilled which is a definite factor. I cant imagine it being very feasable though for a fresh guardian to level and get into a decent guild right now. I'm not just talking challenging, getting into a quality raiding guild with any tank is challenging, but it might be borderline impossible for a guard, there are just too many tanks and too few high end guilds. However I do notice that paladins have alot of neat things and seem to be somewhat rarer than other plate tanks (especially rarer than SKs). So I think your best bet would probably be a pally. If you can dps really well as a pally, which the class is capable of, that'll really set you apart and I think will increase your chances of getting in a decent guild that does hard mode raid encounters (the only content that is actually somewhat challenging left in the game imo).As far as brawlers go, guilds still use them. 3 Sages requires having a brawler and brawlers seem to have pretty nice snap threat and decent cooldowns to use when times are tough and can parse pretty decently ontop of that. I don't think it would be easy but if you were good I have no doubt you'd find a nice home if you are (very) patient and really work hard on improving yourself.Also note that guardians are slated to get alot of changes which may or may not effect the status quo. So you can always make a warrior on the side just in case. But I think you'll have better luck with the pally, especially for the purposes of getting established in game and making a reputation for yourself on your server which is gonna help in getting gear and finding a decent raiding guild that'll take you.

shacub

07-25-2010, 10:30 AM

so is the game over run with tanks, or still in some short supply? I like playing bards, would i be better off with one of them?

Alfeo

07-25-2010, 07:50 PM

<cite>shacub wrote:</cite><blockquote>so is the game over run with tanks, or still in some short supply? I like playing bards, would i be better off with one of them?</blockquote>It is much easier to get into a guild as a bard than it is as a tank. Bards/Chanters/Clerics/Shamans are probably the best classes to choose from if your goal is to get into a high end raid guild as fast as possible and you don't care what class you are playing.So yeah if you find playing a bard equally appealing as playing a tank, make it easier for yourself and just go bard. If you can really play it and get those Victorious Concerto numbers pretty high, you can go pretty much anywhere.

Blu

07-26-2010, 12:42 AM

On the whole, I agree with Alfeo's last 2 posts.Sometimes it's easier to get your foot in the door with a more desirable class and then switch to a tank when a spot opens.There are a lot of tanks in game, but there's still a lot of call for them for groups (maybe not as much for raids). You also have to gear tanks up more than other classes before being "ready" to do harder content. Whereas other classes (like Dirge) can contribute and be slightly carried until geared.Just FYI. But play what you like.

shacub

07-26-2010, 03:16 PM

I love playing brawlers lol. I had monk and betrayed to bruiser at rok then had t quit <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" />. I wanna play one again but from the ways posts are reading what i want to play is a bad class or maybe a class wit bad rap from other players.

Ryai

07-28-2010, 01:55 AM

Make a guardian, in a few months, you'll be SoEs pet class.

Shredderr

07-29-2010, 04:51 PM

DO NOT roll a monk ! Mt or Ot a pally does them both better .

shacub

08-02-2010, 02:40 PM

zerk or paly? I hear paladins next update will get nerf will this affect them in anyway @ tanking? I also remember trying to level up a zerk in tso and not many people liked them for some reason i don't know(prob had a few undergeared ones thinking they could run through zones and duel wield not sure) I currently play 80 bruiser and I guess im on a server that is brawler biased i cant seem to find a group for anything.

Aull

08-02-2010, 03:43 PM

<cite>shacub wrote:</cite><blockquote>zerk or paly? I hear paladins next update will get nerf will this affect them in anyway @ tanking? I also remember trying to level up a zerk in tso and not many people liked them for some reason i don't know(prob had a few undergeared ones thinking they could run through zones and duel wield not sure) I currently play 80 bruiser and I guess im on a server that is brawler biased i cant seem to find a group for anything.</blockquote>There are many brawlers that have this issue on other servers. Brawlers have come a long way in tanking this expac. The deal with brawlers are most need to be totally defensive to do this and they are fine. However plate tanks can do the same but do it offensively.Many players want dps aoe dps to run zones. Brawlers are doing better but still cannot compete with crusaders and zerkers.