Whiners enough!

[swedago]

<p>All these whines about OP class this..  OP class that..  Enough already.  All that does is bring the nerf bat along then there will be whines about the nerf for 50 threads.</p><p>A good player can win with any class. </p>

[Portbott]

<p>Awesome thread</p>

[Draag]

<p><span ><em>A good player can win with any class. </em></span></p><p>Maybe if you say it enough, it will be true.</p>

[Killque]

<p>Go play one of the following and then come back here and make that claim.</p><p>-Conj-Necro-Dirge-Toub</p>

[Crismorn]

<p>Troubs can be very pro</p>

[swedago]

<p><cite>Killque wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Go play one of the following and then come back here and make that claim.</p><p>-Conj-Necro-Dirge-Toub</p></blockquote><p>I opened Naggy FEB 2006 as a Necro. </p><p>Played a Troub from NOV 2004 (Najena server), and pvp with him in BGs on occassion. </p><p>There is easy mode in pvp sure for the average person....  If any of you old school naggy players remember (Havoc, Syndicate, Talisman, Kraken, and Sempiternal)  there were many top PvPers that were not just brigands, assassins, etc... </p><p>When casters were one shotting everyone at the start of BGs everyone was whining.  Now the casters are whining.  If anyone should whine it should be the guardians lol.</p><p>If you can not stand the OP classes don't BG, or roll an OP class.  BGs threads have had more whining in them in 2 months than Nagafen forums in 4 years. </p>

[skidmark]

<p>Started by an assassin, funny. Watch Nagafen.Vymm, he kills in .2 seconds.</p>

[lollipop]

<p>I have a dirge and a troub. they own. Stop being a little B^%ch. Conj and neco's do need a little love tho.</p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>lollipop wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have a dirge and a troub. they own. Stop being a little B^%ch. Conj and neco's do need a little love tho.</p></blockquote><p> this ^^^</p><p> conj and necre (specially necro) need some type of survivability AA since the pet thing only works with NPC's that respect agreession tables.</p>

[LardLord]

<p><cite>lollipop wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have a dirge and a troub. they own. Stop being a little B^%ch. Conj and neco's do need a little love tho.</p></blockquote><p>Just adding my opinion that both Dirges and Troubs rock in BGs.</p><p>Conj actually doesn't seem that bad to me either, but I've only ever really seen one Necro have a big impact, and that was with good support (successful lifeburns and such).</p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p>There are no problems with necros either.</p>

[Valdar]

<p><cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There are no problems with necros either.</p></blockquote><p>On my warden it's a joke to heal through summoner dps. Sorceror dps is a bit trickier, but still relatively easy to heal through as the casting times give you some time to heal up in between nukes.</p><p>Assassins tear you apart with 9k shadowsteps followed by a ton of procs and fast casting CA's and autoattacks giving you no time to heal back up.</p><p>This game is and has been for a long time extremely biased towards melee dps, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. The exception of course is the godmode SK who has everything, even a 100% nerfbat avoidance...</p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There are no problems with necros either.</p></blockquote><p> who cares about some dumb video?</p><p> i'm talking about class survivability AA and the fact that summoners dont have any and the fact that a necro LOOSES hp do to his DPS AA, it's a double whammy.    NO longevity AA and hit point PENALTYS =/= balanced.</p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There are no problems with necros either.</p></blockquote><p> who cares about some dumb video?</p><p> i'm talking about class survivability AA and the fact that summoners dont have any and the fact that a necro LOOSES hp do to his DPS AA, it's a double whammy.    NO longevity AA and hit point PENALTYS =/= balanced.</p></blockquote><p>Last time I checked I gained more HP by doing dps?</p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p>And ouer Survivability is not that bad.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And ouer Survivability is not that bad.</p></blockquote><p>If by not that bad..you mean non-existant..then sure. Considering any scout can auto attack us to death with ease..I'm going to go ahead and say you're wrong.</p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p>And I already proven you wrong before. Sure I cant say anything about conjurers.</p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There are no problems with necros either.</p></blockquote><p> who cares about some dumb video?</p><p> i'm talking about class survivability AA and the fact that summoners dont have any and the fact that a necro LOOSES hp do to his DPS AA, it's a double whammy.    NO longevity AA and hit point PENALTYS =/= balanced.</p></blockquote><p>Last time I checked I gained more HP by doing dps?</p></blockquote><p>in a pvp setting you won't have enough lifetaps too keep your self alive thru all your hp penalties unless a healer is assisting you. further more the dps gained by these abilities that have said hp penaltys is marginal. since necro dot's are tiny compared to sorc.</p><p><cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And ouer Survivability is not that bad.</p></blockquote><p>well.. what are the AA that give survivability? cos i don't see any in my AA trees maybe you can help me find them. all my other characters pretty much 2 or 3 shot any summoner even when they have healers around. not saying they need anything drasting but some type of damage reduction is needed for pvp since the pet damage reduction means squat when the opponent can simply bypass the pet and destroy the summoner.</p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And I already proven you wrong before. Sure I cant say anything about conjurers.</p></blockquote><p>how have you proven anyone wrong?</p><p> this is about class balance not guld ulrish's character. </p><p>  when balancing a class you use the average necro and you compare his abilities to the other mages.   what you don't do is take guld ulrish's character and tell everyone to get all the same gear as him so they can be a lil better at pvp.</p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p>Ouer lifetaps and heals are more the enough to keep the drains away. And no we dont get any suvivability from ouer AAS, But a good tank and healer is able to keep us alive. Atleast I have no problems survuving in a group. And solo we are one of the best kiting classes.</p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And I already proven you wrong before. Sure I cant say anything about conjurers.</p></blockquote><p>how have you proven anyone wrong?</p><p> this is about class balance not guld ulrish's character. </p><p>  when balancing a class you use the average necro and you compare his abilities to the other mages.   what you don't do is take guld ulrish's character and tell everyone to get all the same gear as him so they can be a lil better at pvp.</p></blockquote><p>Well I belive I have the average gear and AAs.</p>

[Davngr1]

<p> you can't keep AD and lich active while in PvP and keep green HP even when not being hit.  you, your self admit that necros are a kiting class, meaning that much of your time is spent runnign around and not being a target.      if you're running around trying to avoid taking damage you're not lifetaping.</p><p> also i don't quite see how a necro is the best kiting class when they have one slow that can basicly break it self.  </p>

[Enoe]

<p>Necro is saying - ALL is fine with my class - other ppl saying necro is so [Removed for Content] useless....</p><p>Only problem i see is for example sk/ranger are easy mode classes to be good at it (not excellent but just good) some ppl saying u can just smash ur head on keyboard as one of them and still own.</p><p>Summoners are not easy class to play, you really need to use ur brain to be good at it. Soe provided you with all tools to be good at it or even excellent as Koppar (Guld Urlish).</p><p>We have problem when head smasher ranger meets head smasher necro and omg necro gets owned in 2 sec. This is all problem with Eq2 - if u try to balance lack of skill of some ppl with aa/abilities gear - ppl who are really good will excell to almost GOD lvl. But if you will not do it majority of players  (imo most of them are these "head smashers" playing all kind of classes) will be very unhappy.</p><p>Same story was with pvp guardians - 99% of them died to everyone - i can name just 2-3 guardians from Nagafen who really excel in pvp and played at the lvl of a class abilities - and guess what ppl playin op classes just evaced on any sign of them. I remember onece i zoned on Enoe (guardian) to jw to see brigand killing another guardian - he died in 10 sec and brig was green. When my zonning immunity wear off brigand attacked me (expecting another easy update i think) 10 sec later he was dead and i was at 90% HP.</p>

[Mosha D'Khan]

<p><cite>lollipop wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have a dirge and a troub. they own. Stop being a little B^%ch. Conj and neco's do need a little love tho.</p></blockquote><p>i find this funny..... i want to verse you in a BG match but because i have 2 shot any dirge/troub i have come across lol. and even if they do get the head start they cant even bring me out of the greens before i knock its head off lol</p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>Enoe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Necro is saying - ALL is fine with my class - other ppl saying necro is so [Removed for Content] useless....</p><p>Only problem i see is for example sk/ranger are easy mode classes to be good at it (not excellent but just good) some ppl saying u can just smash ur head on keyboard as one of them and still own.</p><p>Summoners are not easy class to play, you really need to use ur brain to be good at it. Soe provided you with all tools to be good at it or even excellent as Koppar (Guld Urlish).</p><p>We have problem when head smasher ranger meets head smasher necro and omg necro gets owned in 2 sec. This is all problem with Eq2 - if u try to balance lack of skill of some ppl with aa/abilities gear - ppl who are really good will excell to almost GOD lvl. But if you will not do it majority of players  (imo most of them are these "head smashers" playing all kind of classes) will be very unhappy.</p><p>Same story was with pvp guardians - 99% of them died to everyone - i can name just 2-3 guardians from Nagafen who really excel in pvp and played at the lvl of a class abilities - and guess what ppl playin op classes just evaced on any sign of them. I remember onece i zoned on Enoe (guardian) to jw to see brigand killing another guardian - he died in 10 sec and brig was green. When my zonning immunity wear off brigand attacked me (expecting another easy update i think) 10 sec later he was dead and i was at 90% HP.</p></blockquote><p>  i'm sorry but your thinking is flawed your so called "skillled" player guld urlish has a video of him "ganking" other classes when they're not expecting an attack mostly.  </p> <p> he also uses geometry to avoid attacks, the problem is that other classes can use these tactics too and when skill/gear is equal summoners have almost NO PERSONAL survivability abilities to compete with.   they mostly posses PET survivability AA these PET survivability AA are USELESS when the opponent COMPLETELY IGNORES the pet and kills the SUMMONER.</p> <p>  further more the HP penalties of the class negate any benefit from lifetaps so what's the point of having lifetaps?</p> <p> it's funny when one or two players try to balance a class by "i can do this" totally ignoring TRUE tell tale sings of imbalance and covering it up with EGO.</p><p> BTW your guard might have killed that brig BUT had it been another TANK class you would have been eating dirt.</p>

[Cerulien]

<p><cite>Killque wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Go play one of the following and then come back here and make that claim.</p><p>-Conj-Necro-Dirge-Toub</p></blockquote><p>The claim being "a good player can win with any class."</p><p>I really don't get these debates when they go off about owning and being owned by other classes.  I play a dirge - not uber but I don't suck and I'm still learning the pvp bag of tricks.  Fact is, pretty much any other class will beat me one v one if gear is equal - that's why I tend to stick with my group.  OTOH, me + assassin or brig or swashy + any healer + any tank can take on twice our number generally (4 vs. <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  Same goes for Trouby with mage classes + healer + tank.  It's support / utility in PvE, why shouldn't it be the same in PvP?</p><p>Stay with your group.  If your group members want to go off and solo, tough it out and wait for the next match.</p>

[Shorcon]

<p><cite>Killque wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Go play one of the following and then come back here and make that claim.</p><p>-Conj-Necro-Dirge-Toub</p></blockquote><p>You forgot the most underpowered of all classes. Gaurdian.</p>

[Cigam]

<p>NERF Assassins!  *runs away with a grin showing*</p>

[Naggasaki]

<p><cite>Phaust@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There are no problems with necros either.</p></blockquote><p>On my warden it's a joke to heal through summoner dps. Sorceror dps is a bit trickier, but still relatively easy to heal through as the casting times give you some time to heal up in between nukes.</p><p>Assassins tear you apart with 9k shadowsteps followed by a ton of procs and fast casting CA's and autoattacks giving you no time to heal back up.</p><p>This game is and has been for a long time extremely biased towards melee dps, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>The exception of course is the godmode SK who has everything, even a 100% nerfbat avoidance...</strong></span></p></blockquote><p>I was drinking when I read this. Got rum and coke all over my screen.</p>

[Dorsan]

I will add something constructive to this thread (or to one of the other threads with the same topic -- consolidation anyone???), but for now just jumping in to say this... Naggasaki, [Removed for Content] you, now I want to drink rum and coke!

[Oakum]

<p><cite>Stress@Najena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Killque wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Go play one of the following and then come back here and make that claim.</p><p>-Conj-Necro-Dirge-Toub</p></blockquote><p>I opened Naggy FEB 2006 as a Necro. </p><p>Played a Troub from NOV 2004 (Najena server), and pvp with him in BGs on occassion. </p><p>There is easy mode in pvp sure for the average person....  If any of you old school naggy players remember (Havoc, Syndicate, Talisman, Kraken, and Sempiternal)  there were many top PvPers that were not just brigands, assassins, etc... </p><p>When casters were one shotting everyone at the start of BGs everyone was whining.  Now the casters are whining.  If anyone should whine it should be the guardians lol.</p><p>If you can not stand the OP classes don't BG, or roll an OP class.  BGs threads have had more whining in them in 2 months than Nagafen forums in 4 years. </p></blockquote><p>Lol, I think most guardians just play their SK alts they made so they could tank instances in TSO when they couldnt keep aggro off of any class with a decent AE's as guards.</p>

[Oakum]

<p><cite>Phaust@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There are no problems with necros either.</p></blockquote><p>On my warden it's a joke to heal through summoner dps. Sorceror dps is a bit trickier, but still relatively easy to heal through as the casting times give you some time to heal up in between nukes.</p><p>Assassins tear you apart with 9k shadowsteps followed by a ton of procs and fast casting CA's and autoattacks giving you no time to heal back up.</p><p>This game is and has been for a long time extremely biased towards melee dps, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. The exception of course is the godmode SK who has everything, even a 100% nerfbat avoidance...</p></blockquote><p>I agree. Melee dps is king. Dont forget the brigand and I think swashie too get the chain aa ability that does more damage for every succesive ca that they do in a row. The dps scouts are king of BG's along with the SK. Zerker hard too but their heal is getting nerfed so they wont be as bad after the GU.</p>