SOE Casters NEEd a Little Help ! seriously already

[monrofayy]

<p><img src="http://i44.tinypic.com/34qahvo.jpg" width="500" height="213" /></p><p>THIS is only small part of it,   person pretty much just stood there let me and my pet unload everything on them and pretty much just laughed  my pet is a lvl 90 master air with all my AA"S Dedicated to making my pets best they can be with what is given  ! all my spells are at master quality  ME ANd my pet just out right get resisted by pretty much every one or when a shot does land it does 100-300 dmg  give or take ??   not just conj's but casters in general need some serious help  , ive noticed clerics ect running by me in battle grounds not even slowing down to nuke me it's just bam one shot im dead they just keep on running ?!?! were getting mowed  over!  im wearing a full set player made BG GEar i figured it might at least buy me a few more sec's of life (* MAN I was wrong*)  as a conj keeping people at a distance is <em>Impossible  keeping them in range even more so! survivablity is the main issue !! stopping to cast a spell is a big bottle neck  because your trying to fight and same time keep a safe distance away! conj's & other casters don't have the defense to handle it, we  traded it for ablity to do  damage ! THat ATm  i sure ain't seeing?      i don't want anything handed to me on a silver platter but look at it this way</em></p><p> <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>IF i'm gonna die then i wanna go down fighting or least have a fighting chance that is all...</strong></span></p>

[Killque]

<p>My post seems to conflict with your "casters need help" suggestion.</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=476710">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=476710</a></p>

[Tehom]

<p>Sorcerer != Summoner.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p>No. The only mage's that need help are summoners. Sorcerors and enchanters are fine as they are..Sorcerors retained their massive survivabilty and a large portion of their DPS..Enchanters retained their rediculous CC ability(they can easily lock down a healer allowing the melee DPS to burst them down withing 5 seconds) and a good portion of their DPS.</p><p>Summoners? Well..summoners got the shaft. We had no survivability to begin with at the lauch of this expansion..the only reason summoners were any good was because we were able to put out big DPS with the spell resists as they were.When they took away that DPS,they also took away our survivability. We were only staying alive because we killed meleers before they could kill us.</p><p>It just irks me that they would make a massive change to magic damage,effectively taking away a mage's ability to burst DPS,and then leave melee exactly as it is. Melee auto attack is hitting for 1-3k,and ranged auto attack usually hits my squishy conjuror for around 4k,not to mention procing every single piece of gear they have,just because it hads a 9 second(closer to 4.5 with haste) cast time.</p>

[Thinwizzy]

<p>Did sorcerors keep their survivability? Yes.  Did we keep a large part of our dps? Absolutely not.  It was actually the exact opposite.  I read your post, and it looks like everything you got hit with was well under minimum damage range for that spell.  Bring our survivablity back in line, and give us our job back of making people hurt.  I am not asking for spell damage to be where it was at the beginning of the xpac, but where it is now and even where it is on test is still exceptionally low.</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=15&topic_id=476419" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=476419</a></p><p>Go there and look at those screenshots and compare them to spell descriptions and tell me what you think they should be hitting for.</p>

[monrofayy]

<p><strong>aye not a big pvp'er and it's not like i don't know what im doing  but to join in and  5 sec's later end up face down' @ss up ! constantly gets aggervating honestly i admit i started at first  playing just to get the blasted tokens so i can get the gear i like stuff with pet stats on it, and there i went to actually liking it a bit until this crap started! new stuff is around the corner i hear its gonna take more tokens which at this point right now just mean more aggervation to get it hell i don't even have nuff to get one pieace and been going at it since it went live , rangers are having a ball hell they got better distance then conj's and there [Removed for Content] arrows are homing missles</strong> ,<strong> i notice   they changed the way conj's pet works in BG . .   in PVE i can send my pet pretty much other side of the zone after a mob long as i can see  it ! in BG my pet go's out  300 feet stops and returns ??? hmm so i try moving yep i send out pet go's a set distance returns! other conj's have to had notice this as well ?!?!?! really hope  they they look into a solution  for us because it's really getting sad [Removed for Content]</strong></p>

[Dojac]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No. The only mage's that need help are summoners. Sorcerors and enchanters are fine as they are..Sorcerors retained their massive survivabilty and a large portion of their DPS..Enchanters retained their rediculous CC ability(they can easily lock down a healer allowing the melee DPS to burst them down withing 5 seconds) and a good portion of their DPS.</p><p>Summoners? Well..summoners got the shaft. We had no survivability to begin with at the lauch of this expansion..the only reason summoners were any good was because we were able to put out big DPS with the spell resists as they were.When they took away that DPS,they also took away our survivability. We were only staying alive because we killed meleers before they could kill us.</p><p>It just irks me that they would make a massive change to magic damage,effectively taking away a mage's ability to burst DPS,and then leave melee exactly as it is. Melee auto attack is hitting for 1-3k,and ranged auto attack usually hits my squishy conjuror for around 4k,not to mention procing every single piece of gear they have,just because it hads a 9 second(closer to 4.5 with haste) cast time.</p></blockquote><p>Ridiculous CC?  Have you not updated in over a year?</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Dojac@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No. The only mage's that need help are summoners. Sorcerors and enchanters are fine as they are..Sorcerors retained their massive survivabilty and a large portion of their DPS..Enchanters retained their rediculous CC ability(they can easily lock down a healer allowing the melee DPS to burst them down withing 5 seconds) and a good portion of their DPS.</p><p>Summoners? Well..summoners got the shaft. We had no survivability to begin with at the lauch of this expansion..the only reason summoners were any good was because we were able to put out big DPS with the spell resists as they were.When they took away that DPS,they also took away our survivability. We were only staying alive because we killed meleers before they could kill us.</p><p>It just irks me that they would make a massive change to magic damage,effectively taking away a mage's ability to burst DPS,and then leave melee exactly as it is. Melee auto attack is hitting for 1-3k,and ranged auto attack usually hits my squishy conjuror for around 4k,not to mention procing every single piece of gear they have,just because it hads a 9 second(closer to 4.5 with haste) cast time.</p></blockquote><p>Ridiculous CC?  Have you not updated in over a year?</p></blockquote><p>Have you not fought enchanters recently? Shorter duration on CC=shorter immunity=they're CCing people more often. Combine that with meleers being able to burst pretty much anyone down in a few seconds..Chanters are more devastating now than they were before.</p>

[Killque]

<p><cite>Thinwizzy@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Did sorcerors keep their survivability? Yes.  Did we keep a large part of our dps? Absolutely not.  It was actually the exact opposite.  I read your post, and it looks like everything you got hit with was well under minimum damage range for that spell.  Bring our survivablity back in line, and give us our job back of making people hurt.  I am not asking for spell damage to be where it was at the beginning of the xpac, but where it is now and even where it is on test is still exceptionally low.</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=15&topic_id=476419" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=476419</a></p><p>Go there and look at those screenshots and compare them to spell descriptions and tell me what you think they should be hitting for.</p></blockquote><p>I agree. Casters need to hit harder and loose a ton of surviveability.</p>

[Killque]

<p><cite>monrofayy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong>aye not a big pvp'er and it's not like i don't know what im doing  but to join in and  5 sec's later end up face down' @ss up ! constantly gets aggervating honestly i admit i started at first  playing just to get the blasted tokens so i can get the gear i like stuff with pet stats on it, and there i went to actually liking it a bit until this crap started! new stuff is around the corner i hear its gonna take more tokens which at this point right now just mean more aggervation to get it hell i don't even have nuff to get one pieace and been going at it since it went live , rangers are having a ball hell they got better distance then conj's and there [Removed for Content] arrows are homing missles</strong> ,<strong> i notice   they changed the way conj's pet works in BG . .   in PVE i can send my pet pretty much other side of the zone after a mob long as i can see  it ! in BG my pet go's out  300 feet stops and returns ??? hmm so i try moving yep i send out pet go's a set distance returns! other conj's have to had notice this as well ?!?!?! really hope  they they look into a solution  for us because it's really getting sad [Removed for Content]</strong></p></blockquote><p>FYI, Pets will deagro if the person you are attacking stealths or goes invis. A lot of scouts have attacks that put them invis and your pet will drop agro. Drop targets can also do this. Best to hit pet attack several times throughout a fight.</p>

[monrofayy]

<p> oh yeah that i already know  what i was talking about thou  was say theres this guardian way off down there i see him ill send my pet, i can see him so can my pet   we are both on leveld ground  ! my pet will go out  1/2 distance stop and just return back to me like you said i  gotta mash on the keys to keep it going [Removed for Content] im gonna try today fine a  screen capture program so i can better show  what it's like for me in day to day least that part outta be fun</p>

[Killque]

<p><cite>monrofayy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> oh yeah that i already know  what i was talking about thou  was say theres this guardian way off down there i see him ill send my pet, i can see him so can my pet   we are both on leveld ground  ! my pet will go out  1/2 distance stop and just return back to me like you said i  gotta mash on the keys to keep it going [Removed for Content] im gonna try today fine a  screen capture program so i can better show  what it's like for me in day to day least that part outta be fun</p></blockquote><p>Pets have a range in pvp, as they should. Your pet should not be able to traverse an entire map (even Klak) without leashing.</p>

[monrofayy]

<p> well thats just makes all  the more painful, i actually found a spell/ablity in my book best way i can explain it, is like a mini teleport   you basicly swap places with pet which  right way i found to be useless  i mean if they had it as 5-10 sec recast it could be helpful but they got it set to 2 min !  you swap places with pet split sec later guy notices what happend just run back over start wailnig on me again, right now im currently working on   Battle grounds video for $hit and giggles what it's playing a conj ill try posting it here or post a link here to it soon</p>

[Killque]

<p>Using that ability with a well placed stun/snare/root will make it much more effective. This game is just as much about when to use spells as what spells to use.</p><p>I am not saying that your job is not difficult, I have plenty of challeneges myself. I know where you are coming from.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Killque wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Using that ability with a well placed stun/snare/root will make it much more effective. This game is just as much about when to use spells as what spells to use.</p><p>I am not saying that your job is not difficult, I have plenty of challeneges myself. I know where you are coming from.</p></blockquote><p>Pet teleport isn't going to make a difference when most meleer's kill conjurors in five seconds or less. And if they don't kill us that quickly,then they are absolutely terrible and need to quit playing computer games immediately. And now,considering rangers are looking to be the new FOTM..no point in even playing a conjuror in PVP. Rangers already know how squishy summoners are,so they target us first,turn auto attack on,and laugh when they kill us instantly.</p>

[Baztien]

<p>Summoners definitely need attention, I see them as +1 to my kills and are by far easiest marks on the BG.</p>

[Davian]

<p><cite>Baztien wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Summoners definitely need attention, I see them as +1 to my kills and are by far easiest marks on the BG.</p></blockquote><p>QFT</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p>While they do need a small boost, Majority of the people playing them are bad TBH</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>While they do need a small boost, Majority of the people playing them are bad TBH</p></blockquote><p>Kind of hard to be good when a ranger turns on auto attack and kills you instantly. Even with a healer,pretty much any scout can kill a summoner in a few seconds.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>While they do need a small boost, Majority of the people playing them are bad TBH</p></blockquote><p>Kind of hard to be good when a ranger turns on auto attack and kills you instantly. Even with a healer,pretty much any scout can kill a summoner in a few seconds.</p></blockquote><p>Then your healers and/or tanks suck</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>While they do need a small boost, Majority of the people playing them are bad TBH</p></blockquote><p>Kind of hard to be good when a ranger turns on auto attack and kills you instantly. Even with a healer,pretty much any scout can kill a summoner in a few seconds.</p></blockquote><p>Then your healers and/or tanks suck</p></blockquote><p>Or..maybe..just maybe..The fact that summoners are taking 4k auto attacks from rangers is broken.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>While they do need a small boost, Majority of the people playing them are bad TBH</p></blockquote><p>Kind of hard to be good when a ranger turns on auto attack and kills you instantly. Even with a healer,pretty much any scout can kill a summoner in a few seconds.</p></blockquote><p>Then your healers and/or tanks suck</p></blockquote><p>Or..maybe..just maybe..The fact that summoners are taking 4k auto attacks from rangers is broken.</p></blockquote><p>So does my Inq alt, Want a cookie?</p>

[monrofayy]

<p> [Removed for Content] thats make me feel a whole lot better ! im purposely  chased after in BG because people think conj's are easy targets/kills  lol  i finished  the video i was working on  whole idea was to show what it's like for me every day  when i try to  jump in BG and get some token hopes one day i can finally get a pieace better gear ill be posting it here and the fanart section  mainly i made it for $hit and giggles  really hope someone at soe  reads all this or takes a peek at the video can see for  them self misery we are sucking down ! <strong>If you wanna see the HI-rez&readable quality click this link</strong></p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt3qYUWdJzA&fmt=22" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt3qYUWdJzA&fmt=22</a></p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p>Yes, You die when you stand in front of physically damaging classes(Though not always your fault) and when you stand in the middle of the combat to get AE'ed. Seems typical.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p>Why play a summoner,when you die pretty much instantly,and melee/rangers can DPS better than you.</p><p>That's the main problem here.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p>Summoners still output good DPS, while giving more utility than most melee DPS, again, just most stink.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Summoners still output good DPS, while giving more utility than most melee DPS, again, just most stink.</p></blockquote><p>You cannot DPS when you're dead. Fact. And considering every scout by now is smart enough to realize.."Hey! If I turn auto attack on and point my weapons at this summoner..he's going to die almost instantly!" So 90% of a summoners time in BG is spent dead..the other 10%? At the revive casting buffs..just about to go try to do some DPS,only to be killed nearly instantly by another scout.</p><p>There is absolutely no motivation to play my conjuror in PVP/BG's when he dies when any scout turns auto attack on.</p>

[monrofayy]

<p>Why?  many factors, i love the class, ive  only got one char on my account and  been playing mage/conj almost 10 years</p><p>im a single parent of 2 kids 1 mine other adopted so being able too get things done solo in pve as a mage/conj works well</p><p>ive tryed the other classes paladin i whould say is my next fav down the line  but just doesn't have that  extra somthing  that attracts me to mage/conj's it's like that feeling you know  that this fits me well kinda hard to explain and the other im stubborn [Removed for Content]</p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt3qYUWdJzA&fmt=22" target="_blank">day in my shoes</a></p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Summoners still output good DPS, while giving more utility than most melee DPS, again, just most stink.</p></blockquote><p>You cannot DPS when you're dead. Fact. And considering every scout by now is smart enough to realize.."Hey! If I turn auto attack on and point my weapons at this summoner..he's going to die almost instantly!" So 90% of a summoners time in BG is spent dead..the other 10%? At the revive casting buffs..just about to go try to do some DPS,only to be killed nearly instantly by another scout.</p><p>There is absolutely no motivation to play my conjuror in PVP/BG's when he dies when any scout turns auto attack on.</p></blockquote><p>Gratz on moving on since your class was no longer overpowered. I've been in BG groups on my templar which had four(4) Summoners in them when I was solo healing and had no tank, and guess what, the only time they died was when...They ran out of range of me, or we all died, the survivability is lower than it should be compared to the other clothies, but nowhere near where you are claiming.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Summoners still output good DPS, while giving more utility than most melee DPS, again, just most stink.</p></blockquote><p>You cannot DPS when you're dead. Fact. And considering every scout by now is smart enough to realize.."Hey! If I turn auto attack on and point my weapons at this summoner..he's going to die almost instantly!" So 90% of a summoners time in BG is spent dead..the other 10%? At the revive casting buffs..just about to go try to do some DPS,only to be killed nearly instantly by another scout.</p><p>There is absolutely no motivation to play my conjuror in PVP/BG's when he dies when any scout turns auto attack on.</p></blockquote><p>Gratz on moving on since your class was no longer overpowered. I've been in BG groups on my templar which had four(4) Summoners in them when I was solo healing and had no tank, and guess what, the only time they died was when...They ran out of range of me, or we all died, the survivability is lower than it should be compared to the other clothies, but nowhere near where you are claiming.</p></blockquote><p>Why would I continue to play a class that has absolutely zero survivability,and since the nerf,can't do enough DPS to make any difference in a group PVP setting? You show me a healer that can keep my conjuror alive against a decent scout and you might have an argument. As it is..I doubt any healer would be able to heal me through a ranger casting a single CA and auto attacking.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Summoners still output good DPS, while giving more utility than most melee DPS, again, just most stink.</p></blockquote><p>You cannot DPS when you're dead. Fact. And considering every scout by now is smart enough to realize.."Hey! If I turn auto attack on and point my weapons at this summoner..he's going to die almost instantly!" So 90% of a summoners time in BG is spent dead..the other 10%? At the revive casting buffs..just about to go try to do some DPS,only to be killed nearly instantly by another scout.</p><p>There is absolutely no motivation to play my conjuror in PVP/BG's when he dies when any scout turns auto attack on.</p></blockquote><p>Gratz on moving on since your class was no longer overpowered. I've been in BG groups on my templar which had four(4) Summoners in them when I was solo healing and had no tank, and guess what, the only time they died was when...They ran out of range of me, or we all died, the survivability is lower than it should be compared to the other clothies, but nowhere near where you are claiming.</p></blockquote><p>Why would I continue to play a class that has absolutely zero survivability,and since the nerf,can't do enough DPS to make any difference in a group PVP setting? You show me a healer that can keep my conjuror alive against a decent scout and you might have an argument. As it is..I doubt any healer would be able to heal me through a ranger casting a single CA and auto attacking.</p></blockquote><p>Get less crappy healers since it can be done.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Summoners still output good DPS, while giving more utility than most melee DPS, again, just most stink.</p></blockquote><p>You cannot DPS when you're dead. Fact. And considering every scout by now is smart enough to realize.."Hey! If I turn auto attack on and point my weapons at this summoner..he's going to die almost instantly!" So 90% of a summoners time in BG is spent dead..the other 10%? At the revive casting buffs..just about to go try to do some DPS,only to be killed nearly instantly by another scout.</p><p>There is absolutely no motivation to play my conjuror in PVP/BG's when he dies when any scout turns auto attack on.</p></blockquote><p>Gratz on moving on since your class was no longer overpowered. I've been in BG groups on my templar which had four(4) Summoners in them when I was solo healing and had no tank, and guess what, the only time they died was when...They ran out of range of me, or we all died, the survivability is lower than it should be compared to the other clothies, but nowhere near where you are claiming.</p></blockquote><p>Why would I continue to play a class that has absolutely zero survivability,and since the nerf,can't do enough DPS to make any difference in a group PVP setting? You show me a healer that can keep my conjuror alive against a decent scout and you might have an argument. As it is..I doubt any healer would be able to heal me through a ranger casting a single CA and auto attacking.</p></blockquote><p>Get less crappy healers since it can be done.</p></blockquote><p>Or,just stop playing the weakest class in the game. I'm sorry,but I refuse to run around giving free updates just because you think summoners are okay. Summoners have the weakest DPS now,the least survivability,and next to no utility in a PVP setting. Seriously..why would anyone play a summoner,when they could just play a scout,turn on auto attack,and get free kills?</p>

[monrofayy]

<p> i mean im not running on saying were better or  anything or that we should be able to take out a whole group  i wasn't even aware they nerfed caster dps in BG til just now [Removed for Content]  all i want is to stay alive perhaps just little bit longer ! because as you can see we really can't injoy it any of it since were staring at a   waiting box haha</p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt3qYUWdJzA&fmt=22" target="_blank">day i my shoes</a></p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p>Yes, When a class is actually hard or challenging to play give up, Right? I mean, that is why we have so many SK's around, they are mindless easy to play and a 6 year old could play one. Yes they need some survivability but there are actually good summoners that can actually PvP like Koppar, but nobody wants to put in the time and effort when they can just quit and go play an assassin or crusader.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes, When a class is actually hard or challenging to play give up, Right? I mean, that is why we have so many SK's around, they are mindless easy to play and a 6 year old could play one. Yes they need some survivability but there are actually good summoners that can actually PvP like Koppar, but nobody wants to put in the time and effort when they can just quit and go play an assassin or crusader.</p></blockquote><p>Why play a summoner with poor DPS and terrible survivability,when you can play a scout,with ten times more survivability,and five times more DPS. Seriously..answer the question.</p><p>Summoners are broken..that's all there is to it.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes, When a class is actually hard or challenging to play give up, Right? I mean, that is why we have so many SK's around, they are mindless easy to play and a 6 year old could play one. Yes they need some survivability but there are actually good summoners that can actually PvP like Koppar, but nobody wants to put in the time and effort when they can just quit and go play an assassin or crusader.</p></blockquote><p>Why play a summoner with poor DPS and terrible survivability,when you can play a scout,with ten times more survivability,and five times more DPS. Seriously..answer the question.</p><p>Summoners are broken..that's all there is to it.</p></blockquote><p>You don't like my anwser and choose to ignore it. DPS wise, once they get this small boost it's going to be about where it should be, the glory days of 1 shotting or nearly 1 shotting people is over, I'm sorry. This also isn't the zerg fest of KP which you geared your conj in. This is actual set matches where you kind of need to know how to play your class if you expect to do good. If you don't want to figure out how to DPS right on it, and just give up, all the power to you, but the class isn't nearly as broken DPS wise as you're saying.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes, When a class is actually hard or challenging to play give up, Right? I mean, that is why we have so many SK's around, they are mindless easy to play and a 6 year old could play one. Yes they need some survivability but there are actually good summoners that can actually PvP like Koppar, but nobody wants to put in the time and effort when they can just quit and go play an assassin or crusader.</p></blockquote><p>Why play a summoner with poor DPS and terrible survivability,when you can play a scout,with ten times more survivability,and five times more DPS. Seriously..answer the question.</p><p>Summoners are broken..that's all there is to it.</p></blockquote><p>You don't like my anwser and choose to ignore it. DPS wise, once they get this small boost it's going to be about where it should be, the glory days of 1 shotting or nearly 1 shotting people is over, I'm sorry. This also isn't the zerg fest of KP which you geared your conj in. This is actual set matches where you kind of need to know how to play your class if you expect to do good. If you don't want to figure out how to DPS right on it, and just give up, all the power to you, but the class isn't nearly as broken DPS wise as you're saying.</p></blockquote><p>Because 9 times out of 10,your answer is pretty much just "Well..good players can still do okay!" And yet I haven't seen any proof of these fabled 'good players' Being a good player isn't going to save you from a ranger doing 10k instantly. I know how to play the conjuror. I can top the parse in raid,but there is absolutely no way for me to 'figure out how to DPS' when I've been killed by a scout in five seconds or less.</p><p>When 95% of my spells do less damage than a scouts auto attack..the class is broken.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes, When a class is actually hard or challenging to play give up, Right? I mean, that is why we have so many SK's around, they are mindless easy to play and a 6 year old could play one. Yes they need some survivability but there are actually good summoners that can actually PvP like Koppar, but nobody wants to put in the time and effort when they can just quit and go play an assassin or crusader.</p></blockquote><p>Why play a summoner with poor DPS and terrible survivability,when you can play a scout,with ten times more survivability,and five times more DPS. Seriously..answer the question.</p><p>Summoners are broken..that's all there is to it.</p></blockquote><p>You don't like my anwser and choose to ignore it. DPS wise, once they get this small boost it's going to be about where it should be, the glory days of 1 shotting or nearly 1 shotting people is over, I'm sorry. This also isn't the zerg fest of KP which you geared your conj in. This is actual set matches where you kind of need to know how to play your class if you expect to do good. If you don't want to figure out how to DPS right on it, and just give up, all the power to you, but the class isn't nearly as broken DPS wise as you're saying.</p></blockquote><p>Because 9 times out of 10,your answer is pretty much just "Well..good players can still do okay!" And yet I haven't seen any proof of these fabled 'good players' Being a good player isn't going to save you from a ranger doing 10k instantly. I know how to play the conjuror. I can top the parse in raid,but there is absolutely no way for me to 'figure out how to DPS' when I've been killed by a scout in five seconds or less.</p><p>When 95% of my spells do less damage than a scouts auto attack..the class is broken.</p></blockquote><p>Oh, I'm sorry I don't waste my time to try to get you the data you're after, You know why? Because trying to show you it wouldn't change your mind. You would still find a reason why the class is "Broken"</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Killque wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I agree. Casters need to hit harder and loose a ton of surviveability.</p></blockquote><p>+1</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes, When a class is actually hard or challenging to play give up, Right? I mean, that is why we have so many SK's around, they are mindless easy to play and a 6 year old could play one. Yes they need some survivability but there are actually good summoners that can actually PvP like Koppar, but nobody wants to put in the time and effort when they can just quit and go play an assassin or crusader.</p></blockquote><p>Why play a summoner with poor DPS and terrible survivability,when you can play a scout,with ten times more survivability,and five times more DPS. Seriously..answer the question.</p><p>Summoners are broken..that's all there is to it.</p></blockquote><p>You don't like my anwser and choose to ignore it. DPS wise, once they get this small boost it's going to be about where it should be, the glory days of 1 shotting or nearly 1 shotting people is over, I'm sorry. This also isn't the zerg fest of KP which you geared your conj in. This is actual set matches where you kind of need to know how to play your class if you expect to do good. If you don't want to figure out how to DPS right on it, and just give up, all the power to you, but the class isn't nearly as broken DPS wise as you're saying.</p></blockquote><p>Because 9 times out of 10,your answer is pretty much just "Well..good players can still do okay!" And yet I haven't seen any proof of these fabled 'good players' Being a good player isn't going to save you from a ranger doing 10k instantly. I know how to play the conjuror. I can top the parse in raid,but there is absolutely no way for me to 'figure out how to DPS' when I've been killed by a scout in five seconds or less.</p><p>When 95% of my spells do less damage than a scouts auto attack..the class is broken.</p></blockquote><p>Oh, I'm sorry I don't waste my time to try to get you the data you're after, You know why? Because trying to show you it wouldn't change your mind. You would still find a reason why the class is "Broken"</p></blockquote><p>Lol. I wonder how badly you would be arguing if the shoe were on the other foot..if you were the one playing a class that stood pretty much zero chance in PVP. Considering the way you cried nerf when I hit you with EB the first few days after the expansion..I imagine you'd be here arguing adamantly to have your class fixed. Why was it bad for Conjurors to oneshot people(While still having terrible survivability..scouts could get ontop of us and kill us before we could cast EB) but it's perfectly acceptable for conjurors to die in five seconds or less,just because a scout turns their auto attack on.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p>Those situations did not happen, and for you to purpose that you should have had the ability to 1 shot because you can die fast just shows how easy you want it. Who needs survivability if you could blow anything up before it could reach you...Resists were broken in general, not just EB, but EB helped Demonstrate the broken resists moreso. You are going to complain about the class period, there is nothing anybody can do to stop you unless it's SOE giving you and I win button back, or letting you wear plate. It's not that bad, you just need a healer, and a tank is useful, you don't just flop like you're saying.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p>This is why I quit playing my conjuror. You come to the forums and lay out all the facts(logs of rangers doing 10k instantly to you..assassins killing you in two CA's) and people just pull excuses out of no where as to why the class doesn't deserve a fix.</p><p>As it stands,the conjuror class is absolutely no fun to play. I do not enjoy donating free kills to the thirty or so rangers that roam around Stonebrunt. I do not enjoy donating free kills to the thousands of rangers in the BG's. I do not enjoy having poor DPS. I do not enjoy the class. That's all there is to it. When a class is made un-enjoyable because it is next to impossible to play in PVP..it is broken. Argue all you want,but you don't play a conjuror..hell,I have never even seen you out  PVPing since the expansion launched,and I have never seen you in BG's either. But then..your opinion really doesn't mean anything to me,when all you do is come here and make up random dream team excuses as to why conjurors are fine.</p><p>Here are the facts. Rangers can and do kill conjurors on a regular basis without having to do anything but turn auto attack on</p><p>Pretty much every other scout can kill a conjuror just by casting one or two CA's and landing one or two rounds of auto attack.</p><p>Conjurors bring absolutely nothing to a group PVP situation that another class couldn't do ten times better. Example: Dps..any scout does it literally ten times better,by being able to spike any single target down with ease. Survivability: Pretty much every class has ten times better survivability than the conjuror. Utility: Conjurors have next to no utility..a gimpy raid wide pet buff that doesn't make much difference,and a group stoneskin proc that only works on melee. Any bard could bring ten times more utility and do atleast as much damage as the conjuror,if not more just by turning on auto attack.</p><p>If you would choose to bring along a conjuror over any other class for a PVP group,then you are an idiot. Want a DPS to fill that spot? Bring a ranger,who can spike down anyone with ease. Want a utility? Bring a bard that can make your group uber,and do moderate DPS.</p><p>Those are the facts. Summoners are absolute bottom of the food chain,and no intelligent person,who actually wants to win at PVP,would willingly bring one along. Summoners are a detriment more than anything,just a little speedbump in the road for those rangers standing at max range out of taunt range.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p>There is no point in trying to talk to you, You will only hear what you want to augment the point you have in your head instead of looking at it logically. I'm done with you.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There is no point in trying to talk to you, You will only hear what you want to augment the point you have in your head instead of looking at it logically. I'm done with you.</p></blockquote><p>Looking at it logically? How am I not looking at things logically? I'm stating facts. Ranger turns auto attack on=dead conjuror. Melee scout does a couple CA's,hits a couple rounds of auto attack..dead conjuror. Conjuror tries to DPS in a group setting..people laugh at his DPS,and then said scouts turn auto attack on and own conjuror. That's about as logical as it gets. If you're scouts aren't competent enough to target a conjuror and kill him,then you need to group with some new scouts.</p><p>Just as you think there's no point arguing with me..it goes the same for you. You pull random excuses for why conjurors are okay out of no where,thinking that's going to make your point. I have actually provided data that proves mine. Logs of rangers doing absolutely nothing but turning auto attack on and almost oneshotting me for example.</p><p>(1272409460)[Tue Apr 27 18:04:20 2010]  critically hits YOU for 4144 crushing damage.(1272409460)[Tue Apr 27 18:04:20 2010]Symphonic Allure hits YOU for 1077 poison damage.(1272409460)[Tue Apr 27 18:04:20 2010] Symphonic Allure heals Ragnerok for 399 hit points.(1272409460)[Tue Apr 27 18:04:20 2010]  Noxious Venom critically hits YOU for 301 poison damage.(1272409460)[Tue Apr 27 18:04:20 2010]  Followthrough hits YOU for 959 piercing damage.(1272409460)[Tue Apr 27 18:04:20 2010]  Followthrough hits YOU for 576 piercing damage.(1272409460)[Tue Apr 27 18:04:20 2010]  Rain of Stone hits YOU for 329 crushing damage.(1272409460)[Tue Apr 27 18:04:20 2010] Your victim's skin erupts with mutagenic force!(1272409460)[Tue Apr 27 18:04:20 2010] Talon Strike critically hits YOU for 341 slashing damage.(1272409460)[Tue Apr 27 18:04:20 2010]  Quick Shot critically hits YOU for 961 crushing damage.(1272409460)[Tue Apr 27 18:04:20 2010]  Makeshift Arrow critically hits YOU for 437 piercing damage.(1272409460)[Tue Apr 27 18:04:20 2010]  critically double attacks YOU for 885 crushing damage.</p><p>That's 10k damage,all done instantly.</p><p>(127240970<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" />[Tue Apr 27 18:08:28 2010]  critically hits YOU for 4536 crushing damage.(127240970<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" />[Tue Apr 27 18:08:28 2010]  Superior Rune of Blasting hits YOU for 1153 magic damage.(127240970<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" />[Tue Apr 27 18:08:28 2010]  caustic poison hits YOU for 212 poison damage.(127240970<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" />[Tue Apr 27 18:08:28 2010]  tries to confound YOU with Soulsteal, but YOU resist.(127240970<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" />[Tue Apr 27 18:08:28 2010]  Talon Strike critically hits YOU for 479 slashing damage.(127240970<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" />[Tue Apr 27 18:08:28 2010] Quick Shot critically hits YOU for 1156 crushing damage.(127240970<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" />[Tue Apr 27 18:08:28 2010]  Makeshift Arrow critically hits YOU for 601 piercing damage.(127240970<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" />[Tue Apr 27 18:08:28 2010]  critically double attacks YOU for 2139 crushing damage.(1272409710)[Tue Apr 27 18:08:30 2010]  Rear Shot critically hits YOU for 4552 crushing damage.</p><p>14.8k damage..10k of which was done instantly..the other 4k coming a second or two later.</p><p>(1272410521)[Tue Apr 27 18:22:01 2010]  Sniper Shot critically hits YOU for 8986 crushing damage.(1272410521)[Tue Apr 27 18:22:01 2010]  Noxious Venom critically hits YOU for 427 poison damage.(1272410521)[Tue Apr 27 18:22:01 2010]  tries to pierce YOU with Followthrough, but YOU resist.(1272410521)[Tue Apr 27 18:22:01 2010]Quick Shot critically hits YOU for 874 crushing damage.(1272410521)[Tue Apr 27 18:22:01 2010]  Makeshift Arrow critically hits YOU for 397 piercing damage.(1272410521)[Tue Apr 27 18:22:01 2010] You are stunned!(1272410522)[Tue Apr 27 18:22:02 2010]  critically hits YOU for 1053 crushing damage.(1272410522)[Tue Apr 27 18:22:02 2010]  tries to confound YOU with Soulsteal, but YOU resist.(1272410522)[Tue Apr 27 18:22:02 2010]  Followthrough hits YOU for 534 piercing damage.(1272410522)[Tue Apr 27 18:22:02 2010]  Quick Shot critically hits YOU for 874 crushing damage.(1272410522)[Tue Apr 27 18:22:02 2010]  Makeshift Arrow critically hits YOU for 397 piercing damage.</p><p>(1272405049)[Tue Apr 27 16:50:49 2010] Razer's Shadow Step critically hits YOU for 6419 poison damage.</p><p>(1272405056)[Tue Apr 27 16:50:56 2010] Razer critically hits YOU for 1455 piercing damage.</p><p>(1272405056)[Tue Apr 27 16:50:56 2010] Razer's Killing Blow critically hits YOU for 6068 piercing damage.</p><p>How can you argue with that? ^^^ That clealry proves my point. CONJURORS ARE [Removed for Content]. THEY DIE IF A SCOUT BREATHES ON THEM. THEY HAVE NO DEFENSE AGAINST THIS.</p><p>End of discussion,tbh. There's really no argument you can make that will make it okay for summoners to remain [Removed for Content],and allow stuff like the logs above to happen,just because you're [Removed for Content] that I killed you with EB one time.</p>

[Alima_Tunare]

<p>While I think Ssofa can be a bit harsh with his replies, hes mostly right.  Any class can find success in BG with skill and knowledge of the tools they need.  Not saying that I dont think youre suffering and not saying its lack of skill, but in watching your video what I see is a guy whos used to being able to solo most anything running around ALONE in BG.  I totally understand the volunerablity, I see people talking chanters this chanters that....uhh....they mean Illys.  As a coercer I feel your pain, I have the protection of a fruit fly and the dps of well, something on the bottom of my shoe.  My big spell thats supposed to hit for 1k hits for about 200...parsing 200 on average, my greatest asset to the fight is stun and stifle....wooo, its resisted, immune, cured....im killing people I tell ya!  Ive been told so many times that all I am is an annoyance.  And then Im standing there thinking....hey back in the day wasnt the coercer the only chanter that got a pet? </p><p>I think in some ways its easy for Ssofa to say life isnt bad in there, cuz its not for him.  He wasnt being 1-shotted, he doesnt die to the scout, the bumble bee flying by.  My main is a defiler, I took her into BGs when it started, my 20k worth of warding poofed instantly, my heals did nothing, cures...wow every 17 seconds I could cure something.  Im well qualified and wearing my infamous raid gear the pvpers worry about and dying faster than my coercer in her T2 TSO junk.  So I built up the coercer, shes in full BG gear and whatya know, still dies instantly to most anything...unless Im right under the healer and tank in those AEs.  I dont bother with templars or tank types cuz you just cant kill them.  Scouts are like sticking your head in a woodchipper. Any caster can DO me. Oh wait, I just died to the shaman pet.  So I definitely hear you when you say its not fun sometimes, but sticking to it and being part of your group is very important in there.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Alima_Tunare wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>While I think Ssofa can be a bit harsh with his replies, hes mostly right.  Any class can find success in BG with skill and knowledge of the tools they need.  Not saying that I dont think youre suffering and not saying its lack of skill, but in watching your video what I see is a guy whos used to being able to solo most anything running around ALONE in BG.  I totally understand the volunerablity, I see people talking chanters this chanters that....uhh....they mean Illys.  As a coercer I feel your pain, I have the protection of a fruit fly and the dps of well, something on the bottom of my shoe.  My big spell thats supposed to hit for 1k hits for about 200...parsing 200 on average, my greatest asset to the fight is stun and stifle....wooo, its resisted, immune, cured....im killing people I tell ya!  Ive been told so many times that all I am is an annoyance.  And then Im standing there thinking....hey back in the day wasnt the coercer the only chanter that got a pet? </p><p>I think in some ways its easy for Ssofa to say life isnt bad in there, cuz its not for him.  He wasnt being 1-shotted, he doesnt die to the scout, the bumble bee flying by.  My main is a defiler, I took her into BGs when it started, my 20k worth of warding poofed instantly, my heals did nothing, cures...wow every 17 seconds I could cure something.  Im well qualified and wearing my infamous raid gear the pvpers worry about and dying faster than my coercer in her T2 TSO junk.  So I built up the coercer, shes in full BG gear and whatya know, still dies instantly to most anything...unless Im right under the healer and tank in those AEs.  I dont bother with templars or tank types cuz you just cant kill them.  Scouts are like sticking your head in a woodchipper. Any caster can DO me. Oh wait, I just died to the shaman pet.  So I definitely hear you when you say its not fun sometimes, but sticking to it and being part of your group is very important in there.</p></blockquote><p>I'm not trying to be harsh, It's the reality of the things. If you give someone a Bently for FREE and then later take it back and still give them a FREE car, but this time just a Civic, they will complain about how much nicer the Bently was and how it's crappy they took it away after letting them have it. They don't care it's was a free gift, it's just human nature. I was 1 shotted, by Tricky himself BTW, and a few wizards and other classes while resists were broken. I don't just play a templar so I'm not always the juggernaught so to speak. My raid main is a Mystic and I BG on him sometimes, and I heal fine but I will admit I got spoiled from Steadfast so I stick with that more. I just PL'ed myself a Inq though to BG with exclusively, but still working on his AA's, Inq's aren't quiet as strong as templars in some aspects but are still powerful yes, but I have a host of toons that don't fall under that.</p><p>I'm not getting into making a point with Tricky's post because, Quite honestly like I said, no matter how much you will try to point something out, the blinders will be on because he doesn't want to hear how it's not as bad as he thinks. He just got too used to the Bently so to speak, and doesn't really like that it's not there anymore.</p>

[Draag]

<p>I don't care how "good" you are as a player... if your class sucks, you are gonna suck in BG.</p><p>Summoners (myself being a necro) suck in BG.</p><p>That is no reflection on how well someone knows their class or how to pvp for that matter.</p><p>You could be an awesome<em>(well geared, lots of AAs)</em> pve summoner.  You could be a great FOTM in BG.  You try to play a summoner in BG, and your butt is going to get owned. over and over and over again.</p><p>Hard to kill much of anything when your spells hit for 200  and your pet is stuck in a wall somewhere.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Alima_Tunare wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>While I think Ssofa can be a bit harsh with his replies, hes mostly right.  Any class can find success in BG with skill and knowledge of the tools they need.  Not saying that I dont think youre suffering and not saying its lack of skill, but in watching your video what I see is a guy whos used to being able to solo most anything running around ALONE in BG.  I totally understand the volunerablity, I see people talking chanters this chanters that....uhh....they mean Illys.  As a coercer I feel your pain, I have the protection of a fruit fly and the dps of well, something on the bottom of my shoe.  My big spell thats supposed to hit for 1k hits for about 200...parsing 200 on average, my greatest asset to the fight is stun and stifle....wooo, its resisted, immune, cured....im killing people I tell ya!  Ive been told so many times that all I am is an annoyance.  And then Im standing there thinking....hey back in the day wasnt the coercer the only chanter that got a pet? </p><p>I think in some ways its easy for Ssofa to say life isnt bad in there, cuz its not for him.  He wasnt being 1-shotted, he doesnt die to the scout, the bumble bee flying by.  My main is a defiler, I took her into BGs when it started, my 20k worth of warding poofed instantly, my heals did nothing, cures...wow every 17 seconds I could cure something.  Im well qualified and wearing my infamous raid gear the pvpers worry about and dying faster than my coercer in her T2 TSO junk.  So I built up the coercer, shes in full BG gear and whatya know, still dies instantly to most anything...unless Im right under the healer and tank in those AEs.  I dont bother with templars or tank types cuz you just cant kill them.  Scouts are like sticking your head in a woodchipper. Any caster can DO me. Oh wait, I just died to the shaman pet.  So I definitely hear you when you say its not fun sometimes, but sticking to it and being part of your group is very important in there.</p></blockquote><p>I'm not trying to be harsh, It's the reality of the things. If you give someone a Bently for FREE and then later take it back and still give them a FREE car, but this time just a Civic, they will complain about how much nicer the Bently was and how it's crappy they took it away after letting them have it. They don't care it's was a free gift, it's just human nature. I was 1 shotted, by Tricky himself BTW, and a few wizards and other classes while resists were broken. I don't just play a templar so I'm not always the juggernaught so to speak. My raid main is a Mystic and I BG on him sometimes, and I heal fine but I will admit I got spoiled from Steadfast so I stick with that more. I just PL'ed myself a Inq though to BG with exclusively, but still working on his AA's, Inq's aren't quiet as strong as templars in some aspects but are still powerful yes, but I have a host of toons that don't fall under that.</p><p>I'm not getting into making a point with Tricky's post because, Quite honestly like I said, no matter how much you will try to point something out, the blinders will be on because he doesn't want to hear how it's not as bad as he thinks. He just got too used to the Bently so to speak, and doesn't really like that it's not there anymore.</p></blockquote><p>The reality of things? They gave us a ducati..sure,it was fast and lots of fun,but we had absolutely zero protection. We could kill people fast,but we still died pretty much instantly. Now? Now,they took the ducati away and gave us one of those 10 CC scooters. Top speed of 5 MPH,and the same lack of protection. Now instead of going fast and killing people,we're going slow and dieing just as fast.</p><p>I'm not the one with the blinders here..I see things exactly as they are. You're the one who is denying the reality of the summoner class..Let me list the FACTS again for you.</p><p>WE HAVE ZERO SURVIVABILITY. WE LITERALLY DIE JUST TO RANGER AUTO ATTACK,READ ABOVE LOGS.</p><p>WE HAVE NO DPS NOW. Literally. I fought a warlock on the test server..both of us had full BG gear,and this is with the 15% damage increase. His health never dropped below yellow because his heal procs did more than my spells. His spells on the other hand,all did more than enough damage to kill me.</p><p>I honestly don't see why you're here arguing this at all. Conjurors are broken.Everyone knows it. The only ones arguing to keep them as they are,like you..are the ones who are [Removed for Content] because they got oneshot by a conjuror at some point.</p>

[Killque]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>WE HAVE ZERO SURVIVABILITY.</p></blockquote><p>I think this above claim is where you loose your battle. If you in fact feel you have zero survivability you really should just play an SK and be done with it.</p><p>You play the class, I shouldnt have to explain why this statement is wrong.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Killque wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>WE HAVE ZERO SURVIVABILITY.</p></blockquote><p>I think this above claim is where you loose your battle. If you in fact feel you have zero survivability you really should just play an SK and be done with it.</p><p>You play the class, I shouldnt have to explain why this statement is wrong.</p></blockquote><p>Awesome idea. Lets just leave a class completely broken to the point that it is absolutely no fun to play..and make everyone just roll crusaders.</p>

[Amanathia]

<p>Hey, you gotta look on the bright side.  Since summoners are so laughably broken in BGs, we do enjoy certain advantages.  The biggest one is the ability to AFK whenever you want and not have anyone notice that your DPS is missing.  Need to do the dishes?  No problem.  Go into smuggler's den, rez by some other players.  Since the outcome of what will happen is identical whether or not you're at the keyboard (you're going to die instantly on a summoner), no one will know the difference!</p>

[Crismorn]

<p>I hope the 15% increase is enough, if its not it needs to be moved up alot faster then this fix.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I hope the 15% increase is enough, if its not it needs to be moved up alot faster then this fix.</p></blockquote><p>15% increase isn't going to help us at all..we're still going to die instantly.</p>

[Crismorn]

<p>I hear you and I see it daily, it sucks and needs to  be fixed with spike dmg imo.</p><p>To me a summoner is dbl dmg due to their pet and nothing more, obviously if you geared one out insanely and had a perfect group built around you and the other team is a horrible pug grp you could put up some crazy #'s bur that is no arguement for a class being balanced and fine.</p><p>In short if you use your head and actually pay attention in bgs you would see that summoners need alot of love ever since the last spell fix.  It should be more dmg, much more dmg.</p>

[monrofayy]

<p>15% big fraggin deal thats what extra 50-100 dmg im looking at parse now from a few fight ranger hit me 17k i hit him all ones i could cast 1,500 dmg  most of them were doing 50-300 dmg each they need to make our dps on par, add survivablity to make it some what reasonable way it is now every time were logging in every one is chasing us  LITTERY!!</p><p>ran up to the flag 30 people sitting there seen me all them come running 10% til i was gonna die i said f-you i jumped commited suiside FTS already</p>

[Amanathia]

<p>15% will probably be fine for wizards/warlocks, they still seem to do okay, just not as OP as melee dps, could use some balancing.  Summoner damage could literally be DOUBLED and they'd still be by far the worst class in BGs.  A minute or so ago I just soulrotted a guy for 91 damage.  Yeah.  It's still fun because I just don't care lol.  But anyone who thinks summoners aren't completely broken as far as PVP goes is on crack and/or 'tarded.  The spell damage nerf patch cut our damage to literally 1/4 of what it was before.</p><p>If anyone has played WoW I would compare it to being say, a level 50 warlock and going up against a level 70 rogue.  It's that bad ;p.33</p>

[Draag]

<p>whats 15% harder than not hurting someone at all.... cause thats where its about now...</p><p>Most people at 90 regen hps in combat faster than i can take them away.</p>

[Masuma]

<p>I am a conjurer with fairly decent dps in BG and pve. Just tried to kill my boyfriend's mystic in a duel and couldnt even scratch him. Died eventually to his autoattack with his 150ish damage rating 2hander. He told me to autoattack too, i said i did but my weapon has a damage rating of 89 :p</p>

[Kota]

sticky situation tbh. wiz/locks can still tank, so i think their damage is just fine. but yeah i do agree that summoners are weak atm.

[lollipop]

<p>Wiz and Warlocks need no help. Conj and neco yeah they need a little help lol</p>

[yohann koldheart]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>.Enchanters retained their rediculous CC ability(they can easily lock down a healer allowing the melee DPS to burst them down withing 5 seconds) and a good portion of their DPS.</p></blockquote><p>this part of your post  clearly lets everyone reading know that you have no clue what so ever about what your talking about.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Filthi@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>.Enchanters retained their rediculous CC ability(they can easily lock down a healer allowing the melee DPS to burst them down withing 5 seconds) and a good portion of their DPS.</p></blockquote><p>this part of your post  clearly lets everyone reading know that you have no clue what so ever about what your talking about.</p></blockquote><p>Lol..if you suck as a chanter,then I don't know what to tell you..Reroll? Chanters can EASILY lock down an entire group for several seconds at a time. Everytime I fight a group with a chanter,I'm get locked down for 5-10 seconds every ten seconds or so,and there's nothing I can do about it because I burned my potion already. 5-10 seconds is plenty of time for the scouts to burst someone down.</p>

[Avirodar]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Filthi@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>.Enchanters retained their rediculous CC ability(they can easily lock down a healer allowing the melee DPS to burst them down withing 5 seconds) and a good portion of their DPS.</p></blockquote><p>this part of your post  clearly lets everyone reading know that you have no clue what so ever about what your talking about.</p></blockquote><p>Lol..if you suck as a chanter,then I don't know what to tell you..Reroll? Chanters can EASILY lock down an entire group for several seconds at a time. Everytime I fight a group with a chanter,I'm get locked down for 5-10 seconds every ten seconds or so,and there's nothing I can do about it because I burned my potion already. 5-10 seconds is plenty of time for the scouts to burst someone down.</p></blockquote><p>Enchanters have useful tools for temporarily disabling just about any healer except for templar. The ability for templars to be immune to both stun and stifle gives them a significant advantage in team game BGs.An enchanter that has half a clue as to what they are doing, that is more attentive to obtaining victory than a high damage parse, can be devastating in terms of practical effect in battlegrounds. That is unless they are trying to deal with a templar, at which point they have nothing.</p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p>Necros are fine. Think Conjurers are fine too.</p>

[Alienor]

<p><cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Necros are fine. Think Conjurers are fine too.</p></blockquote><p>You mean fine as in "fine as cannon fodder" <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />?</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Necros are fine. Think Conjurers are fine too.</p></blockquote><p>Then you are either a glutton for punishment,or the stupidest summoner ever..take your pick. Rangers turning auto attack on and instantly killing summoners=not okay. Scouts killing summoners in about five seconds or less if they get lucky procs=not okay. Summoners doing minimal DPS,that an afk healer could heal through=not okay.</p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p>Sine I do as much dps as the other classes. And since scouts dont kill me in 5 seconds. Yes sure a ranger that see me first and get the first shoot will be hard to kill.</p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Sine I do as much dps as the other classes. <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><em><strong>And since scouts dont kill me in 5 seconds</strong></em></span>. Yes sure a ranger that see me first and get the first shoot will be hard to kill.</p></blockquote><p> yes "YOU" but a sorc in your gear with survive way longer then you because they have AA for survivability were as summoners have AA for pet survivability.</p><p> do you even understand what yur argueing about man?</p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p>They migth survive longer, but I can also survive longer due to kiting and heals with they cant.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They migth survive longer, but I can also survive longer due to kiting and heals with they cant.</p></blockquote><p>False. Sorcs have snare's and roots too,and they can easily get an adornment to proc about a 2k heal,and then the PVP shoulders have another heal.</p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They migth survive longer, but I can also survive longer due to kiting and heals with they cant.</p></blockquote><p>you might be right about true PvP situations were one can get the jump on another class or what not but in BG the game is way different the element of surprise is almost completely lost and the fight is in your face for the most part.    if an opponent has you target and you can't take a hit it's lights out. </p><p> granted my coercer goes down almost just as fast even with his damage reduction abilities but he brings big time utillity and can stun lock/mez with ease.</p>

[Enoe]

<p>haha it is fun when some crying scrub try to convince BEST PVP NECRO on Nagafen that his class is broken. Tbh to all crying summoners go and take a look and Koppar's pvp videos - he even inspired me to make myself necro and guess what i had a lot more fun on this dude then on sk. Owning other sks oon my necro was a pure pleasure <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I did some BG with my necro as well and tbh i felt good there. Even when i run solo i could kill duos of scout healer in Den. Just u need to know what to click 1st - react fast use ur brain and cc u have - anticipate and finally get ur kills. OFC from time to time u will be unlucky and get owned but some scout or other class but who cares - noone prommesed summoners to be invincible.</p>

[Masuma]

<p>I am a conji. Even I go after other conjis first because they are easy to kill but good dps if not killed.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Enoe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>haha it is fun when some crying scrub try to convince BEST PVP NECRO on Nagafen that his class is broken. Tbh to all crying summoners go and take a look and Koppar's pvp videos - he even inspired me to make myself necro and guess what i had a lot more fun on this dude then on sk. Owning other sks oon my necro was a pure pleasure <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>I did some BG with my necro as well and tbh i felt good there. Even when i run solo i could kill duos of scout healer in Den. Just u need to know what to click 1st - react fast use ur brain and cc u have - anticipate and finally get ur kills. OFC from time to time u will be unlucky and get owned but some scout or other class but who cares - noone prommesed summoners to be invincible.</p></blockquote><p>It's fun when morons who have no clue what they are talking about try to tell everyone that summoners are not broken. I have a level 90 conjuror. Before I quit playing him,rangers would pretty much oneshot me just by turning auto attack on. Assassins could shadowstep+ jugular slice and two shot me. Tanks have so much heals these days that they are [Removed for Content] near impossible to kill with a summoners DPS..they might as well be healers,considering they can actually top the heal parse half the time. There is no possible way to 'react fast and use your brain' when a ranger kills you in 2 seconds or less from 50 meters,or an assassin shadow steps you,stifles you with jugular slice,and then kills you with a moment later.</p><p>When people who don't even play summoners(most of the ones replying here have been scouts) say that the class is  broken because of poor DPS and zero survivability..then the class is broken.</p>

[Enoe]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Enoe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>haha it is fun when some crying scrub try to convince BEST PVP NECRO on Nagafen that his class is broken. Tbh to all crying summoners go and take a look and Koppar's pvp videos - he even inspired me to make myself necro and guess what i had a lot more fun on this dude then on sk. Owning other sks oon my necro was a pure pleasure <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>I did some BG with my necro as well and tbh i felt good there. Even when i run solo i could kill duos of scout healer in Den. Just u need to know what to click 1st - react fast use ur brain and cc u have - anticipate and finally get ur kills. OFC from time to time u will be unlucky and get owned but some scout or other class but who cares - noone prommesed summoners to be invincible.</p></blockquote><p>It's fun when morons who have no clue what they are talking about try to tell everyone that summoners are not broken. I have a level 90 conjuror. Before I quit playing him,rangers would pretty much oneshot me just by turning auto attack on. Assassins could shadowstep+ jugular slice and two shot me. Tanks have so much heals these days that they are [Removed for Content] near impossible to kill with a summoners DPS..they might as well be healers,considering they can actually top the heal parse half the time. There is no possible way to 'react fast and use your brain' when a ranger kills you in 2 seconds or less from 50 meters,or an assassin shadow steps you,stifles you with jugular slice,and then kills you with a moment later.</p><p>When people who don't even play summoners(most of the ones replying here have been scouts) say that the class is  broken because of poor DPS and zero survivability..then the class is broken.</p></blockquote><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8VCJxS5p3s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8VCJxS5p3s</a></p><p>learn to play like this and then call other ppl morons</p><p>compare video from bg of other conji and his "so called" play style and koppars one - i have material for 5 min ownage video from my own necro (non myth 178 aa only) owning better geared ppl and duos as well maybe i can make some vid out of this if i would be bored enough.</p><p>This is a problem sony is facing for long time  - ppl who sux calling to nerf others or to [Removed for Content] their class - it will work good on scrub lvl but really good players would become GOD like. And then other scrubs will call for other nerf and so on.</p>

[Avirodar]

<p><cite>Enoe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>{snip}</blockquote><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8VCJxS5p3s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8VCJxS5p3s</a></p><p>learn to play like this and then call other ppl morons</p></blockquote><p>I watched the video hoping to see some cool action that would be relevant to BGs. It was not. The video linked has zero relevance to actual BG gameplay.On top of that, the video openly states it is a T8 PVP video... So how old is this? Last expansion (TSO?). The video post date was recent, but who knows when the content was recorded?<em><a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/Kopparmalm"><strong>Kopparmalm</strong></a> - 13 May 2010 - T8 Eq2 pvp video. Necomancer from Nagafen. Koppar</em>Thanks for the laugh. You presented old content, with old mechanics, as if it has any relevance to the current content, and current mechanics, in T9.</p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>Enoe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>haha it is fun when some crying scrub try to convince BEST PVP NECRO on Nagafen that his class is broken. Tbh to all crying summoners go and take a look and Koppar's pvp videos - he even inspired me to make myself necro and guess what i had a lot more fun on this dude then on sk. Owning other sks oon my necro was a pure pleasure <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>I did some BG with my necro as well and tbh i felt good there. Even when i run solo i could kill duos of scout healer in Den. Just u need to know what to click 1st - react fast use ur brain and cc u have - anticipate and finally get ur kills. OFC from time to time u will be unlucky and get owned but some scout or other class but who cares - noone prommesed summoners to be invincible.</p></blockquote><p> lawl?   scrub?   do you even know what scrub means?  </p><p> it MEANS you don't understand how the GAME WORKS.   so in effect it's YOU who are the scrub since you don't UNDERSTAND that everything BEING EQUAL every class can use these geometry exploits and ganking your boyfriends Koopar uses.  SO there they have NOTHING TO DO WITH BALANCE. </p> <p><cite>Enoe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Enoe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>haha it is fun when some crying scrub try to convince BEST PVP NECRO on Nagafen that his class is broken. Tbh to all crying summoners go and take a look and Koppar's pvp videos - he even inspired me to make myself necro and guess what i had a lot more fun on this dude then on sk. Owning other sks oon my necro was a pure pleasure <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>I did some BG with my necro as well and tbh i felt good there. Even when i run solo i could kill duos of scout healer in Den. Just u need to know what to click 1st - react fast use ur brain and cc u have - anticipate and finally get ur kills. OFC from time to time u will be unlucky and get owned but some scout or other class but who cares - noone prommesed summoners to be invincible.</p></blockquote><p>It's fun when morons who have no clue what they are talking about try to tell everyone that summoners are not broken. I have a level 90 conjuror. Before I quit playing him,rangers would pretty much oneshot me just by turning auto attack on. Assassins could shadowstep+ jugular slice and two shot me. Tanks have so much heals these days that they are [Removed for Content] near impossible to kill with a summoners DPS..they might as well be healers,considering they can actually top the heal parse half the time. There is no possible way to 'react fast and use your brain' when a ranger kills you in 2 seconds or less from 50 meters,or an assassin shadow steps you,stifles you with jugular slice,and then kills you with a moment later.</p><p>When people who don't even play summoners(most of the ones replying here have been scouts) say that the class is  broken because of poor DPS and zero survivability..then the class is broken.</p></blockquote><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8VCJxS5p3s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8VCJxS5p3s</a></p><p>learn to play like this and then call other ppl morons</p><p>compare video from bg of other conji and his "so called" play style and koppars one - i have material for 5 min ownage video from my own necro (non myth 178 aa only) owning better geared ppl and duos as well maybe i can make some vid out of this if i would be bored enough.</p><p>This is a problem sony is facing for long time  - ppl who sux calling to nerf others or to [Removed for Content] their class - it will work good on scrub lvl but really good players would become GOD like. And then other scrubs will call for other nerf and so on.</p></blockquote><p>   learn to gank players sitting at the broker?   </p><p>  grats?</p>

[Zanther]

<p><cite>Enoe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Enoe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>haha it is fun when some crying scrub try to convince BEST PVP NECRO on Nagafen that his class is broken. Tbh to all crying summoners go and take a look and Koppar's pvp videos - he even inspired me to make myself necro and guess what i had a lot more fun on this dude then on sk. Owning other sks oon my necro was a pure pleasure <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>I did some BG with my necro as well and tbh i felt good there. Even when i run solo i could kill duos of scout healer in Den. Just u need to know what to click 1st - react fast use ur brain and cc u have - anticipate and finally get ur kills. OFC from time to time u will be unlucky and get owned but some scout or other class but who cares - noone prommesed summoners to be invincible.</p></blockquote><p>It's fun when morons who have no clue what they are talking about try to tell everyone that summoners are not broken. I have a level 90 conjuror. Before I quit playing him,rangers would pretty much oneshot me just by turning auto attack on. Assassins could shadowstep+ jugular slice and two shot me. Tanks have so much heals these days that they are [Removed for Content] near impossible to kill with a summoners DPS..they might as well be healers,considering they can actually top the heal parse half the time. There is no possible way to 'react fast and use your brain' when a ranger kills you in 2 seconds or less from 50 meters,or an assassin shadow steps you,stifles you with jugular slice,and then kills you with a moment later.</p><p>When people who don't even play summoners(most of the ones replying here have been scouts) say that the class is  broken because of poor DPS and zero survivability..then the class is broken.</p></blockquote><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8VCJxS5p3s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8VCJxS5p3s</a></p><p>learn to play like this and then call other ppl morons</p><p>compare video from bg of other conji and his "so called" play style and koppars one - i have material for 5 min ownage video from my own necro (non myth 178 aa only) owning better geared ppl and duos as well maybe i can make some vid out of this if i would be bored enough.</p><p>This is a problem sony is facing for long time  - ppl who sux calling to nerf others or to [Removed for Content] their class - it will work good on scrub lvl but really good players would become GOD like. And then other scrubs will call for other nerf and so on.</p></blockquote><p>I'm glad you think t8 pvp from 1-2 years ago applies to now.</p><p>However, the fact is...Yes, if you're completely geared out and 100% best of everything, its possible to do decent in a BG against people who probably have lesser gear than you.</p><p>Now for the masses such as myself, who dont have access to 100% best of everything, we continue to get 2 shotted by rangers and other melee classes with equal gear. DPS is also down right sad where guardians are doing more damage that most necros and conjs. 15% dps increase will help Sorcs, but that still doesnt solve the problem of summoners still aving less survivibility and lesser dps than 90% of the other classes. I could rely on a good healer, but i'm still going to be doing 200 damage a shot, and i'm sure they'll run out of mana before my target is actually dead.</p>

[Masuma]

<p>The funny thing is my conji does quite good dps in battlegrounds if i do not die too much. But... if my dps figures go very high it is mostly because of encounter damage but often that does not seem to really hurt people because the healers seem to easily outheal it.</p><p>The other day I had a gears match that my team lost. I was top dps by far, more than 2 times higher than the 2nd highest. But I had only killed 2 people!</p><p>Elemental blast can sometimes be a nice spike damage and even kill people but even though i (just in case it helps) dispell before using it, it frequently does not show much or enought effect. One reason for that might be that elemental blast is not ONE big spike damage, it is actually 10 hits that happen instantly. As i understand it that means it can for example trigger 10 reactive heals or wards and wont go through stoneskins that prevent damage if the damage is lower than 50% of the casters health etc.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Enoe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Enoe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>haha it is fun when some crying scrub try to convince BEST PVP NECRO on Nagafen that his class is broken. Tbh to all crying summoners go and take a look and Koppar's pvp videos - he even inspired me to make myself necro and guess what i had a lot more fun on this dude then on sk. Owning other sks oon my necro was a pure pleasure <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>I did some BG with my necro as well and tbh i felt good there. Even when i run solo i could kill duos of scout healer in Den. Just u need to know what to click 1st - react fast use ur brain and cc u have - anticipate and finally get ur kills. OFC from time to time u will be unlucky and get owned but some scout or other class but who cares - noone prommesed summoners to be invincible.</p></blockquote><p>It's fun when morons who have no clue what they are talking about try to tell everyone that summoners are not broken. I have a level 90 conjuror. Before I quit playing him,rangers would pretty much oneshot me just by turning auto attack on. Assassins could shadowstep+ jugular slice and two shot me. Tanks have so much heals these days that they are [Removed for Content] near impossible to kill with a summoners DPS..they might as well be healers,considering they can actually top the heal parse half the time. There is no possible way to 'react fast and use your brain' when a ranger kills you in 2 seconds or less from 50 meters,or an assassin shadow steps you,stifles you with jugular slice,and then kills you with a moment later.</p><p>When people who don't even play summoners(most of the ones replying here have been scouts) say that the class is  broken because of poor DPS and zero survivability..then the class is broken.</p></blockquote><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8VCJxS5p3s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8VCJxS5p3s</a></p><p>learn to play like this and then call other ppl morons</p><p>compare video from bg of other conji and his "so called" play style and koppars one - i have material for 5 min ownage video from my own necro (non myth 178 aa only) owning better geared ppl and duos as well maybe i can make some vid out of this if i would be bored enough.</p><p>This is a problem sony is facing for long time  - ppl who sux calling to nerf others or to [Removed for Content] their class - it will work good on scrub lvl but really good players would become GOD like. And then other scrubs will call for other nerf and so on.</p></blockquote><p>A T8 PVP video has absolutely no relevance to this thread. I was doing fine in T8 too,even though conjurors still lacked survivabiity then..it wasn't completely impossible to play the class and actually have fun.</p><p>Now however..the class is no fun at all. Personally,<em> </em>I have NEVER seen Koppar out PVPing. EVER. And I'm out in Stonebrunt for a few hours a day. If he were to actually go out and PVP..he might realize that he's wrong when the horde's of rangers camping the cloud pads turn auto attack on and completely own him as he flies in.</p>

[Allforgrog]

<p><cite>Shalin@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I am a conji. Even I go after other conjis first because they are easy to kill but good dps if not killed.</p></blockquote><p>This.</p><p>The upcoming changes *should* help though. Not with survivability, but at least with vengeance.</p><p>Sorc's currently have a solid advantage in both survivability and DPS. Our "utility" is better for the group, but not better enough to swing the balance to our side. I do not consider it to be REALLY  broken though (note to lvl70-79 summoners, might want to sit that tier out <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" />), just a bit off ATM.</p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Enoe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Enoe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>haha it is fun when some crying scrub try to convince BEST PVP NECRO on Nagafen that his class is broken. Tbh to all crying summoners go and take a look and Koppar's pvp videos - he even inspired me to make myself necro and guess what i had a lot more fun on this dude then on sk. Owning other sks oon my necro was a pure pleasure <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>I did some BG with my necro as well and tbh i felt good there. Even when i run solo i could kill duos of scout healer in Den. Just u need to know what to click 1st - react fast use ur brain and cc u have - anticipate and finally get ur kills. OFC from time to time u will be unlucky and get owned but some scout or other class but who cares - noone prommesed summoners to be invincible.</p></blockquote><p>It's fun when morons who have no clue what they are talking about try to tell everyone that summoners are not broken. I have a level 90 conjuror. Before I quit playing him,rangers would pretty much oneshot me just by turning auto attack on. Assassins could shadowstep+ jugular slice and two shot me. Tanks have so much heals these days that they are [Removed for Content] near impossible to kill with a summoners DPS..they might as well be healers,considering they can actually top the heal parse half the time. There is no possible way to 'react fast and use your brain' when a ranger kills you in 2 seconds or less from 50 meters,or an assassin shadow steps you,stifles you with jugular slice,and then kills you with a moment later.</p><p>When people who don't even play summoners(most of the ones replying here have been scouts) say that the class is  broken because of poor DPS and zero survivability..then the class is broken.</p></blockquote><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8VCJxS5p3s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8VCJxS5p3s</a></p><p>learn to play like this and then call other ppl morons</p><p>compare video from bg of other conji and his "so called" play style and koppars one - i have material for 5 min ownage video from my own necro (non myth 178 aa only) owning better geared ppl and duos as well maybe i can make some vid out of this if i would be bored enough.</p><p>This is a problem sony is facing for long time  - ppl who sux calling to nerf others or to [Removed for Content] their class - it will work good on scrub lvl but really good players would become GOD like. And then other scrubs will call for other nerf and so on.</p></blockquote><p>A T8 PVP video has absolutely no relevance to this thread. I was doing fine in T8 too,even though conjurors still lacked survivabiity then..it wasn't completely impossible to play the class and actually have fun.</p><p>Now however..the class is no fun at all. Personally,<em> </em>I have NEVER seen Koppar out PVPing. EVER. And I'm out in Stonebrunt for a few hours a day. If he were to actually go out and PVP..he might realize that he's wrong when the horde's of rangers camping the cloud pads turn auto attack on and completely own him as he flies in.</p></blockquote><p>Well migth be cause we are not from the same timezone? And I dont really think it´s fun to spend 1h looking for pvp before I get a figth lol. Open wolrd pvp is dead.</p>

[Dorsan]

I posted this on the PvP forum, but I think it might be relevant for battlegrounds too: <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=478808" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=478808</a> Now leave my necro alone!!!

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p>Nice post dorsan</p>

[Blambil]

<p>"Summoners put out decent (middle tier) DPS when properly protected by a group......"</p><p>Hard to argue with that statement, and yet there's so many things wrong with it......</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Blambil@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>"Summoners put out decent (middle tier) DPS when properly protected by a group......"</p><p>Hard to argue with that statement, and yet there's so many things wrong with it......</p></blockquote><p>Why? Not every class can be a shadowknight or pally.</p>

[Dorsan]

Ok, so here we go... Action relevant to summoners in T9 battlegrounds. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCk5ia0Reok" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCk5ia0Reok</a> Now leave my necro alone.

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>Dorsan@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Ok, so here we go... Action relevant to summoners in T9 battlegrounds. <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCk5ia0Reok" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCk5ia0Reok</a> Now leave my necro alone.</blockquote><p><a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu175/nite2regret/necrobg.jpg" border="0" /></a></p><p>  guess you don't follow your own advice?</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p>I absolutely love when someone from a class that needs a buff(Not huge) comes in saying they are pretty good just take effort an thought to play others will come in saying that it's all a lie and the advice is useless instead of listening</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I absolutely love when someone from a class that needs a buff(Not huge) comes in saying they are pretty good just take effort an thought to play others will come in saying that it's all a lie and the advice is useless instead of listening</p></blockquote><p>I absolutely love how any advice anyone gives on how to play the summoner will make absolutely no difference. We're still going to die instantly if any scout so much as sneezes at us,and we're still going to have poor DPS.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I absolutely love when someone from a class that needs a buff(Not huge) comes in saying they are pretty good just take effort an thought to play others will come in saying that it's all a lie and the advice is useless instead of listening</p></blockquote><p>I absolutely love how any advice anyone gives on how to play the summoner will make absolutely no difference. We're still going to die instantly if any scout so much as sneezes at us,and we're still going to have poor DPS.</p></blockquote><p>I absolutely love how intead of adapting from being extremely powerful and being knocked down to earth, people will just quit because they don't want to work to re-evaluate how they do things and would rather whine.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I absolutely love when someone from a class that needs a buff(Not huge) comes in saying they are pretty good just take effort an thought to play others will come in saying that it's all a lie and the advice is useless instead of listening</p></blockquote><p>I absolutely love how any advice anyone gives on how to play the summoner will make absolutely no difference. We're still going to die instantly if any scout so much as sneezes at us,and we're still going to have poor DPS.</p></blockquote><p>I absolutely love how intead of adapting from being extremely powerful and being knocked down to earth, people will just quit because they don't want to work to re-evaluate how they do things and would rather whine.</p></blockquote><p>I don't know how else to explain it to you. If you can't see that summoners are broken,then you have some serious problems.</p><p>If I were to go by his advice,and use my tank pet..my DPS would drop by atleast half,and with summoner DPS as it is,that is extremely low. My tank pet wouldn't do enough damage to make any difference,nor would his weak taunts give me any more survivability. I would die just as fast,the only difference is that his health would only drop to 95% instead of 90.</p><p>Telling a summoner to hide behind a wall,doing absolutely nothing,while he sends his pet out to do all the damage is about the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Summoner pets took a massive nerf,just like all the other casters,and their damage is even worse than the actually summoner. My master 1 mage pet hits for around 200 or less on his Non-AA nukes and MAYBE 1k on the big AA nukes..my pet isn't going to kill anyone..ever.</p><p>When people have to come up with bogus strategies like hiding behind something while your pet does all the work,or trying to tell you what AA to use,when every single summoner ALREADY has that AA because there is nothing better in our summoner tree..then the class is broken. I'm sorry that you can't see this..I'm really sorry for all the other summoners out there who continue to play their class,and continue to take the non-stop abuse. If they want to play a class where they die instantly(and if you watched his video,there were several instances where he did die INSTANTLY) then more power to them. But I refuse to play a class that is gimped beyond reason.</p><p>How anyone could think that it's okay for scout auto attacks to hit HARDER than any summoner spell is beyond me. When a class designed to do DPS,is unable to do so it is broken. Why play a summoner when you could play a scout and have five times the survivability and ten times the DPS?</p><p>WHEN THERE IS NO REASON TO PLAY THE CLASS,BECAUSE IT CANNOT PERFORM IT'S PRIMARY FUNCTION,THAT CLASS IS BROKEN.</p>

[Zanther]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I absolutely love when someone from a class that needs a buff(Not huge) comes in saying they are pretty good just take effort an thought to play others will come in saying that it's all a lie and the advice is useless instead of listening</p></blockquote><p>And heres where you contidict yourself and make everything you say incorrect.</p><p>When a class requires you to put in more effort than another class in order to get even close to the same results is the definition of underpowered.</p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p>Hmm 10times the dps. that means they have to do like 10milion dmg in a bg round. Sounds fun.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Zanther wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I absolutely love when someone from a class that needs a buff(Not huge) comes in saying they are pretty good just take effort an thought to play others will come in saying that it's all a lie and the advice is useless instead of listening</p></blockquote><p>And heres where you contidict yourself and make everything you say incorrect.</p><p>When a class requires you to put in more effort than another class in order to get even close to the same results is the definition of underpowered.</p></blockquote><p>How do you draw the conclusion? That would only be true if every class was meant to do the same thing on it's own. A dirge is not supposed to do as much DPS as an assassin, but can parse fairly close if they put effort into it, does that make a dirge underpowered? No, It means that class has a different role than an assassin, for the most part, there is some grey areas though.</p>

[Zanther]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zanther wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I absolutely love when someone from a class that needs a buff(Not huge) comes in saying they are pretty good just take effort an thought to play others will come in saying that it's all a lie and the advice is useless instead of listening</p></blockquote><p>And heres where you contidict yourself and make everything you say incorrect.</p><p>When a class requires you to put in more effort than another class in order to get even close to the same results is the definition of underpowered.</p></blockquote><p>How do you draw the conclusion? That would only be true if every class was meant to do the same thing on it's own. A dirge is not supposed to do as much DPS as an assassin, but can parse fairly close if they put effort into it, does that make a dirge underpowered? No, It means that class has a different role than an assassin, for the most part, there is some grey areas though.</p></blockquote><p>Dirge is a support class, with useful group songs to make up for the dps. Dirge is also a bard class with troub, and assasin is a high dps class along with ranger. A summoner is a dps/utility class that doesnt do much dps, and doesnt have much utility.</p><p>I'm curious though... what do you classify a summoner as?</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Zanther wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zanther wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I absolutely love when someone from a class that needs a buff(Not huge) comes in saying they are pretty good just take effort an thought to play others will come in saying that it's all a lie and the advice is useless instead of listening</p></blockquote><p>And heres where you contidict yourself and make everything you say incorrect.</p><p>When a class requires you to put in more effort than another class in order to get even close to the same results is the definition of underpowered.</p></blockquote><p>How do you draw the conclusion? That would only be true if every class was meant to do the same thing on it's own. A dirge is not supposed to do as much DPS as an assassin, but can parse fairly close if they put effort into it, does that make a dirge underpowered? No, It means that class has a different role than an assassin, for the most part, there is some grey areas though.</p></blockquote><p>Dirge is a support class, with useful group songs to make up for the dps. A summoner is a dps/utility class that doesnt do much dps, and doesnt have much utility.</p><p>I'm curious though... what do you classify a summoner as?</p></blockquote><p>Utility/DPS as you did, and they do more DPS than you guys will let on, As Koppar and Dorsan have shown, but everyone refuses to accept as reality.</p>

[Zanther]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zanther wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zanther wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I absolutely love when someone from a class that needs a buff(Not huge) comes in saying they are pretty good just take effort an thought to play others will come in saying that it's all a lie and the advice is useless instead of listening</p></blockquote><p>And heres where you contidict yourself and make everything you say incorrect.</p><p>When a class requires you to put in more effort than another class in order to get even close to the same results is the definition of underpowered.</p></blockquote><p>How do you draw the conclusion? That would only be true if every class was meant to do the same thing on it's own. A dirge is not supposed to do as much DPS as an assassin, but can parse fairly close if they put effort into it, does that make a dirge underpowered? No, It means that class has a different role than an assassin, for the most part, there is some grey areas though.</p></blockquote><p>Dirge is a support class, with useful group songs to make up for the dps. A summoner is a dps/utility class that doesnt do much dps, and doesnt have much utility.</p><p>I'm curious though... what do you classify a summoner as?</p></blockquote><p>Utility/DPS as you did, and they do more DPS than you guys will let on, As Koppar and Dorsan have shown, but everyone refuses to accept as reality.</p></blockquote><p>Koppar and Dorsan are the equivalent of the people who say Shadowknights arnt overpowered in pvp. Koppar lost credibility with his t8 2 year old vid and his premade group vs a pug screenshot. He is also the highest geared necro on the server, with gear that maybe 1% of the population has. Less than 1% actually use these boards which explains the lack of posts also.</p><p>Name some useful utility abilities and explinations of how to increase dps.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p>Pet Raidwide, Shards(Which are useful in PvP/BG), Toxicity, Conj get group stoneskin. Was to improve your DPS? Get a good healer to heal you, and maybe a tank to keep them off you.</p><p>Koppar's gear not attainable by more than 1% of the population...Really? Was that a serious comment.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Pet Raidwide, Shards(Which are useful in PvP/BG), Toxicity, Conj get group stoneskin. Was to improve your DPS? Get a good healer to heal you, and maybe a tank to keep them off you.</p><p>Koppar's gear not attainable by more than 1% of the population...Really? Was that a serious comment.</p></blockquote><p>Conj group stoneskin is not worth specing into. It's got like a two second cast time,and wont absorb attacks over 50%. The raidwide isn't even really noticeable in PVP,shards are a joke if you consider them utility. Toxicity got nerfed like everything else..last I check in a BG setting it was only hitting for like 50-100 damage which for melee classes might add up..but doesn't help much when you have cast times on everything.</p><p>A good healer is not going to keep a conjuror up if a ranger decides that conjuror needs to die,or any other scout for that matter...don't care what you say. Tank might delay your death for a few seconds,but inevitably..if a scout decides you need to die,all he has to do is switch over to you for half a second and hit MAYBE two CA's to kill you.</p>

[Valdar]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Pet Raidwide, Shards(Which are useful in PvP/BG), Toxicity, Conj get group stoneskin. Was to improve your DPS? Get a good healer to heal you, and maybe a tank to keep them off you.</p><p>Koppar's gear not attainable by more than 1% of the population...Really? Was that a serious comment.</p></blockquote><p>You know your class is [Removed for Content] if what you add to the group is a power clicky lol. And doesn't SK red adorn give a better groupwide stoneskin or is that already removed?</p><p>As for Koppar's gear, he's not in Onyx so I reckon his gear can be obtained by 90% of the server and not 1%.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Pet Raidwide, Shards(Which are useful in PvP/BG), Toxicity, Conj get group stoneskin. Was to improve your DPS? Get a good healer to heal you, and maybe a tank to keep them off you.</p><p>Koppar's gear not attainable by more than 1% of the population...Really? Was that a serious comment.</p></blockquote><p>Conj group stoneskin is not worth specing into. It's got like a two second cast time,and wont absorb attacks over 50%. The raidwide isn't even really noticeable in PVP,shards are a joke if you consider them utility. Toxicity got nerfed like everything else..last I check in a BG setting it was only hitting for like 50-100 damage which for melee classes might add up..but doesn't help much when you have cast times on everything.</p><p>A good healer is not going to keep a conjuror up if a ranger decides that conjuror needs to die,or any other scout for that matter...don't care what you say. Tank might delay your death for a few seconds,but inevitably..if a scout decides you need to die,all he has to do is switch over to you for half a second and hit MAYBE two CA's to kill you.</p></blockquote><p>How many times does it have to be said, A good healer can keep a conj alive through a ranger hitting him, It's only when a group gets on them, or the other group way outgears you guys. And you realize that you have the perma-buff stoneskin too right? How are shards a joke, with all the power leach gear now, and how long fights can go, any bit of power regen can help, if you don't see that, you are foolish.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Phaust@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Pet Raidwide, Shards(Which are useful in PvP/BG), Toxicity, Conj get group stoneskin. Was to improve your DPS? Get a good healer to heal you, and maybe a tank to keep them off you.</p><p>Koppar's gear not attainable by more than 1% of the population...Really? Was that a serious comment.</p></blockquote><p>You know your class is [Removed for Content] if what you add to the group is a power clicky lol. And doesn't SK red adorn give a better groupwide stoneskin or is that already removed?</p><p>As for Koppar's gear, he's not in Onyx so I reckon his gear can be obtained by 90% of the server and not 1%.</p></blockquote><p>That isn't it though, its power than the power clicky, and SK's Red adorn has been nerfed already.</p>

[Zanther]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Pet Raidwide, Shards(Which are useful in PvP/BG), Toxicity, Conj get group stoneskin. Was to improve your DPS? Get a good healer to heal you, and maybe a tank to keep them off you.</p><p>Koppar's gear not attainable by more than 1% of the population...Really? Was that a serious comment.</p></blockquote><p>I might not be reading the right list, but I dont see a group stoneskin buff - edit, found it</p><p>Toxicity i'll give you</p><p>And how does recieving heals increase the amount of damage a spell does?</p><p>So basicly you're trying to say summoners are only good for.....shards, 1 and two 3 minute cooldown AA abilities, one of which isnt even that good...</p><p>And has =/= attainable?</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Pet Raidwide, Shards(Which are useful in PvP/BG), Toxicity, Conj get group stoneskin. Was to improve your DPS? Get a good healer to heal you, and maybe a tank to keep them off you.</p><p>Koppar's gear not attainable by more than 1% of the population...Really? Was that a serious comment.</p></blockquote><p>Conj group stoneskin is not worth specing into. It's got like a two second cast time,and wont absorb attacks over 50%. The raidwide isn't even really noticeable in PVP,shards are a joke if you consider them utility. Toxicity got nerfed like everything else..last I check in a BG setting it was only hitting for like 50-100 damage which for melee classes might add up..but doesn't help much when you have cast times on everything.</p><p>A good healer is not going to keep a conjuror up if a ranger decides that conjuror needs to die,or any other scout for that matter...don't care what you say. Tank might delay your death for a few seconds,but inevitably..if a scout decides you need to die,all he has to do is switch over to you for half a second and hit MAYBE two CA's to kill you.</p></blockquote><p>How many times does it have to be said, A good healer can keep a conj alive through a ranger hitting him, It's only when a group gets on them, or the other group way outgears you guys. And you realize that you have the perma-buff stoneskin too right? How are shards a joke, with all the power leach gear now, and how long fights can go, any bit of power regen can help, if you don't see that, you are foolish.</p></blockquote><p>How many times does it have to be said,a good healer isn't going to make any difference when that ranger is procing 10k damage ATLEAST,every single time he auto attacks? Throw in a well timed CA,just before auto attack and that conjuror is toast. Perma buff stoneskin does not proc often enought to make any difference. Shards are a joke,because getting an enchanter in your group makes them useless,and with scouts doing the equivalent of what mage's were pre-resist fix..fights still dont last very long,unless the groups are mage heavy.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Pet Raidwide, Shards(Which are useful in PvP/BG), Toxicity, Conj get group stoneskin. Was to improve your DPS? Get a good healer to heal you, and maybe a tank to keep them off you.</p><p>Koppar's gear not attainable by more than 1% of the population...Really? Was that a serious comment.</p></blockquote><p>Conj group stoneskin is not worth specing into. It's got like a two second cast time,and wont absorb attacks over 50%. The raidwide isn't even really noticeable in PVP,shards are a joke if you consider them utility. Toxicity got nerfed like everything else..last I check in a BG setting it was only hitting for like 50-100 damage which for melee classes might add up..but doesn't help much when you have cast times on everything.</p><p>A good healer is not going to keep a conjuror up if a ranger decides that conjuror needs to die,or any other scout for that matter...don't care what you say. Tank might delay your death for a few seconds,but inevitably..if a scout decides you need to die,all he has to do is switch over to you for half a second and hit MAYBE two CA's to kill you.</p></blockquote><p>How many times does it have to be said, A good healer can keep a conj alive through a ranger hitting him, It's only when a group gets on them, or the other group way outgears you guys. And you realize that you have the perma-buff stoneskin too right? How are shards a joke, with all the power leach gear now, and how long fights can go, any bit of power regen can help, if you don't see that, you are foolish.</p></blockquote><p>How many times does it have to be said,a good healer isn't going to make any difference when that ranger is procing 10k damage ATLEAST,every single time he auto attacks? Throw in a well timed CA,just before auto attack and that conjuror is toast. Perma buff stoneskin does not proc often enought to make any difference. Shards are a joke,because getting an enchanter in your group makes them useless,and with scouts doing the equivalent of what mage's were pre-resist fix..fights still dont last very long,unless the groups are mage heavy.</p></blockquote><p>Ok, A cleric or druid should have no issue if they can play at all keeping you up through a ranger, especially cleric. Shamans have always been the short end, but even they can probally do it now. You must group with extremely crappy healers.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Zanther wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Pet Raidwide, Shards(Which are useful in PvP/BG), Toxicity, Conj get group stoneskin. Was to improve your DPS? Get a good healer to heal you, and maybe a tank to keep them off you.</p><p>Koppar's gear not attainable by more than 1% of the population...Really? Was that a serious comment.</p></blockquote><p>I might not be reading the right list, but I dont see a group stoneskin buff - edit, found it</p><p>Toxicity i'll give you</p><p>And how does recieving heals increase the amount of damage a spell does?</p><p>So basicly you're trying to say summoners are only good for.....shards and a single 2 minute cooldown AA ability...</p><p>And has =/= attainable?</p></blockquote><p>If you aren't dead, you're doing more DPS than if you are dead, No? And you know how to increase DPS outside of being alive too, I shouldn't need to tell you that.</p><p>Way more than 1% has that gear also, and most of it is quiet honestly, attainable by most of the population.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Pet Raidwide, Shards(Which are useful in PvP/BG), Toxicity, Conj get group stoneskin. Was to improve your DPS? Get a good healer to heal you, and maybe a tank to keep them off you.</p><p>Koppar's gear not attainable by more than 1% of the population...Really? Was that a serious comment.</p></blockquote><p>Conj group stoneskin is not worth specing into. It's got like a two second cast time,and wont absorb attacks over 50%. The raidwide isn't even really noticeable in PVP,shards are a joke if you consider them utility. Toxicity got nerfed like everything else..last I check in a BG setting it was only hitting for like 50-100 damage which for melee classes might add up..but doesn't help much when you have cast times on everything.</p><p>A good healer is not going to keep a conjuror up if a ranger decides that conjuror needs to die,or any other scout for that matter...don't care what you say. Tank might delay your death for a few seconds,but inevitably..if a scout decides you need to die,all he has to do is switch over to you for half a second and hit MAYBE two CA's to kill you.</p></blockquote><p>How many times does it have to be said, A good healer can keep a conj alive through a ranger hitting him, It's only when a group gets on them, or the other group way outgears you guys. And you realize that you have the perma-buff stoneskin too right? How are shards a joke, with all the power leach gear now, and how long fights can go, any bit of power regen can help, if you don't see that, you are foolish.</p></blockquote><p>How many times does it have to be said,a good healer isn't going to make any difference when that ranger is procing 10k damage ATLEAST,every single time he auto attacks? Throw in a well timed CA,just before auto attack and that conjuror is toast. Perma buff stoneskin does not proc often enought to make any difference. Shards are a joke,because getting an enchanter in your group makes them useless,and with scouts doing the equivalent of what mage's were pre-resist fix..fights still dont last very long,unless the groups are mage heavy.</p></blockquote><p>Ok, A cleric or druid should have no issue if they can play at all keeping you up through a ranger, especially cleric. Shamans have always been the short end, but even they can probally do it now. You must group with extremely crappy healers.</p></blockquote><p>Or you are just completely ignoring a fact. Trying to reason with you is a waste of time,tbh.</p><p>But let's ask this. How would you feel if you lost all your mitigation,had no viable methods of survivability,and had your heals cut down by 75%. You would be completely useless.</p><p>This is exactly the state conjurors are currently in. The class is USELESS in PVP. We bring no utility to the table,we're the easiest target in the game to kill,and with the resist nerf,we bring terrible DPS. WHY WOULD ANYONE BRING A SUMMONER OVER ANY DPS CLASS THAT CAN DPS TWENTY TIMES MORE EFFICIENTLY.</p><p>That is the root of the problem. No one in their right mind would chose a conjuror over a bard/chanter for utility,nor would they chose a conjuror over any other DPS class,when any other DPS class can perform that function more efficiently.</p><p>I'll say it again..When the class is not wanted because it cannot perform is primary function..it is broken. If you can't understand that simple concept,then I don't know what else to tell you.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>resist nerf</strong></span></blockquote><p>This is why reasoning with you is impossible. You see making a mechanic work as it is intended as a nerf. You feel hitting for focus damage basically is how classes were intended to be played especially in PvP. You are in the search for an SK like class without the stigma of being the guy playing a crusader. It's ok, everyone wishes to dominate most of the time, but it's not ideal for the balance of the game.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>resist nerf</strong></span></blockquote><p>This is why reasoning with you is impossible. You see making a mechanic work as it is intended as a nerf. You feel hitting for focus damage basically is how classes were intended to be played especially in PvP. You are in the search for an SK like class without the stigma of being the guy playing a crusader. It's ok, everyone wishes to dominate most of the time, but it's not ideal for the balance of the game.</p></blockquote><p>Good job. Single out one part of my post,completely ignoring all the relevant facts,and try to turn this into a "you just want to be OP" argurment</p><p>No where am I asking to be OP..no where am I asking to do rediculous damage. I'm simply trying to get the class fixed.</p><blockquote><p>This is exactly the state conjurors are currently in. The class is USELESS in PVP. We bring no utility to the table,we're the easiest target in the game to kill,and with the resist nerf,we bring terrible DPS. WHY WOULD ANYONE BRING A SUMMONER OVER ANY DPS CLASS THAT CAN DPS TWENTY TIMES MORE EFFICIENTLY.</p><p>That is the root of the problem. No one in their right mind would chose a conjuror over a bard/chanter for utility,nor would they chose a conjuror over any other DPS class,when any other DPS class can perform that function more efficiently.</p><p>I'll say it again..When the class is not wanted because it cannot perform is primary function..it is broken. If you can't understand that simple concept,then I don't know what else to tell you.</p></blockquote><blockquote><p>This is exactly the state conjurors are currently in. The class is USELESS in PVP. We bring no utility to the table,we're the easiest target in the game to kill,and with the resist nerf,we bring terrible DPS. WHY WOULD ANYONE BRING A SUMMONER OVER ANY DPS CLASS THAT CAN DPS TWENTY TIMES MORE EFFICIENTLY.</p><p>That is the root of the problem. No one in their right mind would chose a conjuror over a bard/chanter for utility,nor would they chose a conjuror over any other DPS class,when any other DPS class can perform that function more efficiently.</p><p>I'll say it again..When the class is not wanted because it cannot perform is primary function..it is broken. If you can't understand that simple concept,then I don't know what else to tell you.</p></blockquote><p>In case you didn't get it the first time.</p>

[Zanther]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zanther wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Pet Raidwide, Shards(Which are useful in PvP/BG), Toxicity, Conj get group stoneskin. Was to improve your DPS? Get a good healer to heal you, and maybe a tank to keep them off you.</p><p>Koppar's gear not attainable by more than 1% of the population...Really? Was that a serious comment.</p></blockquote><p>I might not be reading the right list, but I dont see a group stoneskin buff - edit, found it</p><p>Toxicity i'll give you</p><p>And how does recieving heals increase the amount of damage a spell does?</p><p>So basicly you're trying to say summoners are only good for.....shards and a single 2 minute cooldown AA ability...</p><p>And has =/= attainable?</p></blockquote><p>If you aren't dead, you're doing more DPS than if you are dead, No? And you know how to increase DPS outside of being alive too, I shouldn't need to tell you that.</p><p>Way more than 1% has that gear also, and most of it is quiet honestly, attainable by most of the population.</p></blockquote><p>Ok, yeah, i'll do more damage over time being alive, but that still doesnt answer my question.</p><p>How does that increase the damage a spell does? There lies the problem, summoners damage abilities suck, and have next to no utility to make up for it. Sure, I can pump out 100,000 damage if a healer decides to dump a mana bar keeping me up, while the ranger doing 10k a shot laughes.</p><p>The ideal balance would in the middle between sorc and enchanter damage and utility wise. More damage than an enchanter, but less than a sorc....and more utility than a soec, but less than a enchanter. But currently...</p><p>Summoners have less damage than an enchanter, and less utility than a sorc.</p><p>Thats not balanced.</p>

[Dorsan]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>If they want to play a class where they die instantly(and if you watched his video,there were several instances where he did die INSTANTLY) then more power to them.</blockquote><p>Umm... I did? o.O You do realise that the video is playing at 400%, right?</p><p>And I really don't know what more you people need. I post a video of me standing in mid of the enemy base in ganak, not kiting, not doing anything at all to get out of danger and surviving for a long time with one warden healing me (who btw did 100k total heals in that match, while I did 250k) and another video of us winning without a healer in the group with moments when 2 people are beating on one summoner for long time and all you see in it that -sometimes- we die instantly? Flash news, everyone dies, especially when:</p><p>1) they have multiple people on them or</p><p>2) they get attacked when their health is already low and/or their skills are on cooldown</p><p>What you probably failed to notice is how I kept switching the defensive and potency gear to improve heals for the relic keeper, and the instant deaths were mostly in the potency gear and not in the defensive.</p><p>We can survive and we don't lose most of our DPS by doing so. Actually couldn't test this in T9 but in T8 we did some tests with different AA builds and then made test fights vs Koppar. I can tell you there was no noticable PvP DPS gain from respeccing to a more offensive build back then, so I am guessing it is similar now too.</p>

[Amanathia]

<p>Summoners are flat out horribad in pvp.  I'm sure there's a few with like the best gear available that can kill ungeared people, but that doesn't make it okay.  Summoners are no more than a speedbump.  You can point to a parse in gears, even with my horribad gear if we've got a healer and tank I can sometimes make it up near the top of the parse, but that's irrelevant (magus in warhammer, anyone?).  You won't be able to even break through many players regen and heal procs.  If you have amazing gear you might do passably well, but that same gear level on another class would turn them into unstoppable killing machines.  And I dunno what that guy is talking about, there's classes that CAN stand up to many people beating on them at once.</p><p>Fortunately it doesn't really matter, because you can just alt tab and do other stuff while waiting on the rezzes. And you'll still get tokens, so who cares--just try your best and have fun, it's a game.  Someone hasta be the worst pvp class in the game--might as well be us, at least it keeps the class from having too many people playing it--I'd rather be horrible than be flavor of the month/year thanks.  Plus elemental toxicity is fairly nice in gears and such.  My wish list would be:</p><p>1.  Up summoner damage by 15-25%.</p><p>2.  Fix pet pathing issues <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  (please?)</p><p>3.  Up pet damage by a lot and make their spells land better in pvp.</p><p>It'd be nice if, say, we had the sorcerer pet out we'd do similar damage to wizard/warlock (but not as much aoe) or other dps classes.  If we had the tank pet we'd be able to provide good utility and taunts..etc (prolly too much to ask to make the scout pet useful though, I realize how unlikely that is).</p>

[Dorsan]

Pet pathing is clearly broken and it needs to be fixed. But it's like that for years now. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> While we are adding wishlists, here is mine: 1) Make dumbfires useful 2) Make a mechanism for manually setting pet spell priorities 3) Fix UT and AD stacking issues with Soulrot/Pandemic 4) Fix Pet pathing issues 5) Add casters movement speed buffs to pet too <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> But this all is not really Bg related. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p><cite>Zanther wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zanther wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zanther wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I absolutely love when someone from a class that needs a buff(Not huge) comes in saying they are pretty good just take effort an thought to play others will come in saying that it's all a lie and the advice is useless instead of listening</p></blockquote><p>And heres where you contidict yourself and make everything you say incorrect.</p><p>When a class requires you to put in more effort than another class in order to get even close to the same results is the definition of underpowered.</p></blockquote><p>How do you draw the conclusion? That would only be true if every class was meant to do the same thing on it's own. A dirge is not supposed to do as much DPS as an assassin, but can parse fairly close if they put effort into it, does that make a dirge underpowered? No, It means that class has a different role than an assassin, for the most part, there is some grey areas though.</p></blockquote><p>Dirge is a support class, with useful group songs to make up for the dps. A summoner is a dps/utility class that doesnt do much dps, and doesnt have much utility.</p><p>I'm curious though... what do you classify a summoner as?</p></blockquote><p>Utility/DPS as you did, and they do more DPS than you guys will let on, As Koppar and Dorsan have shown, but everyone refuses to accept as reality.</p></blockquote><p>Koppar and Dorsan are the equivalent of the people who say Shadowknights arnt overpowered in pvp. Koppar lost credibility with his t8 2 year old vid and his premade group vs a pug screenshot. He is also the highest geared necro on the server, with gear that maybe 1% of the population has. Less than 1% actually use these boards which explains the lack of posts also.</p><p>Name some useful utility abilities and explinations of how to increase dps.</p></blockquote><p>Hmm there was 1 out of 4 screenshots that where premade and that was Smugglers. The other one where pugs. And I lost credability when showing a t8 video made 4days before SF release? And I still pvp the same way as in that video, and I do not have any problem with my necro.</p><p>And I´m the best geared necro on the server lulz? I got pvpgear and some easymode raid gear. There are 8 guilds on Nagafen that have killed the same mobs as I got loot from.</p><p>And it was not I who showed the video.</p><p>So 0 points out of 3 where correct. Grats on failure</p>

[NicolasKL]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Pet Raidwide, Shards(Which are useful in PvP/BG), Toxicity, Conj get group stoneskin. Was to improve your DPS? Get a good healer to heal you, and maybe a tank to keep them off you.</p><p>Koppar's gear not attainable by more than 1% of the population...Really? Was that a serious comment.</p></blockquote><p>Conj group stoneskin is not worth specing into. It's got like a two second cast time,and wont absorb attacks over 50%. The raidwide isn't even really noticeable in PVP,shards are a joke if you consider them utility. Toxicity got nerfed like everything else..last I check in a BG setting it was only hitting for like 50-100 damage which for melee classes might add up..but doesn't help much when you have cast times on everything.</p><p>A good healer is not going to keep a conjuror up if a ranger decides that conjuror needs to die,or any other scout for that matter...don't care what you say. Tank might delay your death for a few seconds,but inevitably..if a scout decides you need to die,all he has to do is switch over to you for half a second and hit MAYBE two CA's to kill you.</p></blockquote><p>This is just complete BS.  Just did a Klak (as a swash) against a group with a Conj that was staying up quite well.  I was specifically targeting him (per your instructions) and it took a hell of a lot more than 2 CAs to get him down.  Rangers and assassins can maybe do what you're saying, don't pretend all scouts can, and rangers and assassins can do that to me too, so it's not just a conjuror thing.  And the conj topped the parse for their side.</p>

[Masuma]

<p><cite>NicolasKL wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Pet Raidwide, Shards(Which are useful in PvP/BG), Toxicity, Conj get group stoneskin. Was to improve your DPS? Get a good healer to heal you, and maybe a tank to keep them off you.</p><p>Koppar's gear not attainable by more than 1% of the population...Really? Was that a serious comment.</p></blockquote><p>Conj group stoneskin is not worth specing into. It's got like a two second cast time,and wont absorb attacks over 50%. The raidwide isn't even really noticeable in PVP,shards are a joke if you consider them utility. Toxicity got nerfed like everything else..last I check in a BG setting it was only hitting for like 50-100 damage which for melee classes might add up..but doesn't help much when you have cast times on everything.</p><p>A good healer is not going to keep a conjuror up if a ranger decides that conjuror needs to die,or any other scout for that matter...don't care what you say. Tank might delay your death for a few seconds,but inevitably..if a scout decides you need to die,all he has to do is switch over to you for half a second and hit MAYBE two CA's to kill you.</p></blockquote><p>This is just complete BS.  Just did a Klak (as a swash) against a group with a Conj that was staying up quite well.  I was specifically targeting him (per your instructions) and it took a hell of a lot more than 2 CAs to get him down.  Rangers and assassins can maybe do what you're saying, don't pretend all scouts can, and rangers and assassins can do that to me too, so it's not just a conjuror thing.  And the conj topped the parse for their side.</p></blockquote><p>I said it before, if i stay alive because the tank does a great job or I am healed well, I am able to top the parse. That is  though because my pet does a lot of encounter damage and so do I. That encounter damage sums up nicely and keep healers busy but seems to be easily outhealed.</p><p>I noticed for myself this works best:</p><p>- I wear merchant BG gear if they are good damage options, which they mostly do. I do not wear them if they don't have pet buffs.</p><p>- I first  tried to have a fairly defensive AA spec for BG and literally went for any AA that would make me live longer. A bit later i found out though that for me it works better to choose whatever AA spec gives me most DPS. It will not always be enough (I stated before I do not seem to be able to kill my bf's mystic in a duel and i very regularly die in BG) but sometimes I am able to kill that assassin / ranger that thought i am an easy victim or not so well equipped / skilled / prepared tank.(And tbh i can't help but feeling some triumph when i did that.)</p><p>- I try to pick roles in BG that i seem to do well in, in the x2 and x4 BGs that seems to be defense.</p>

[mrsma]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Pet Raidwide, Shards(Which are useful in PvP/BG), Toxicity, Conj get group stoneskin. Was to improve your DPS? Get a good healer to heal you, and maybe a tank to keep them off you.</p><p>Koppar's gear not attainable by more than 1% of the population...Really? Was that a serious comment.</p></blockquote><p>Conj group stoneskin is not worth specing into. It's got like a two second cast time,and wont absorb attacks over 50%. The raidwide isn't even really noticeable in PVP,shards are a joke if you consider them utility. Toxicity got nerfed like everything else..last I check in a BG setting it was only hitting for like 50-100 damage which for melee classes might add up..but doesn't help much when you have cast times on everything.</p><p>A good healer is not going to keep a conjuror up if a ranger decides that conjuror needs to die,or any other scout for that matter...don't care what you say. Tank might delay your death for a few seconds,but inevitably..if a scout decides you need to die,all he has to do is switch over to you for half a second and hit MAYBE two CA's to kill you.</p></blockquote><p>How many times does it have to be said, A good healer can keep a conj alive through a ranger hitting him, It's only when a group gets on them, or the other group way outgears you guys. And you realize that you have the perma-buff stoneskin too right? How are shards a joke, with all the power leach gear now, and how long fights can go, any bit of power regen can help, if you don't see that, you are foolish.</p></blockquote><p>How many times does it have to be said,a good healer isn't going to make any difference when that ranger is procing 10k damage ATLEAST,every single time he auto attacks? Throw in a well timed CA,just before auto attack and that conjuror is toast. Perma buff stoneskin does not proc often enought to make any difference. Shards are a joke,because getting an enchanter in your group makes them useless,and with scouts doing the equivalent of what mage's were pre-resist fix..fights still dont last very long,unless the groups are mage heavy.</p></blockquote><p>Ok, A cleric or druid should have no issue if they can play at all keeping you up through a ranger, especially cleric. Shamans have always been the short end, but even they can probally do it now. <span style="font-size: small; color: #ff0000;"><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">You must group with extremely crappy healers.</span></strong></span></p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>This ^^^^^</strong></span> </span></span></p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zanther wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zanther wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I absolutely love when someone from a class that needs a buff(Not huge) comes in saying they are pretty good just take effort an thought to play others will come in saying that it's all a lie and the advice is useless instead of listening</p></blockquote><p>And heres where you contidict yourself and make everything you say incorrect.</p><p>When a class requires you to put in more effort than another class in order to get even close to the same results is the definition of underpowered.</p></blockquote><p>How do you draw the conclusion? That would only be true if every class was meant to do the same thing on it's own. A dirge is not supposed to do as much DPS as an assassin, but can parse fairly close if they put effort into it, does that make a dirge underpowered? No, It means that class has a different role than an assassin, for the most part, there is some grey areas though.</p></blockquote><p>Dirge is a support class, with useful group songs to make up for the dps. A summoner is a dps/utility class that doesnt do much dps, and doesnt have much utility.</p><p>I'm curious though... what do you classify a summoner as?</p></blockquote><p>Utility/DPS as you did, and they do more DPS than you guys will let on, As Koppar and Dorsan have shown, but everyone refuses to accept as reality.</p></blockquote><p>  i didn't bother to read past this point since i can all ready see it's all nonsense you speak sir.</p> <p>  who cares what those two necros do for damage?   DAMAGE IS NOT THE ISSUE..  capish?</p> <p>  further more i didn't post asking for advice i KNOW how to play ALL my classes.  i don't need anyone telling me how to play BY THE WAY </p> <p> a HUGE LOL at posting parses thinking they are at all relevant to CLASS when over 30% of it is RAID GEAR PROCS    DURRRR     and class EVEN A BARD parses those numbers USING said gear. </p> <p> does that GEAR come standard with the CLASS?  no</p> <p>  can ANY class take advantage of that gear?  yes</p> <p> how does that have ANY relevance to summoners needing more survivability?  NONE   </p> <p> please s.t.f.u.   </p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zanther wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zanther wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I absolutely love when someone from a class that needs a buff(Not huge) comes in saying they are pretty good just take effort an thought to play others will come in saying that it's all a lie and the advice is useless instead of listening</p></blockquote><p>And heres where you contidict yourself and make everything you say incorrect.</p><p>When a class requires you to put in more effort than another class in order to get even close to the same results is the definition of underpowered.</p></blockquote><p>How do you draw the conclusion? That would only be true if every class was meant to do the same thing on it's own. A dirge is not supposed to do as much DPS as an assassin, but can parse fairly close if they put effort into it, does that make a dirge underpowered? No, It means that class has a different role than an assassin, for the most part, there is some grey areas though.</p></blockquote><p>Dirge is a support class, with useful group songs to make up for the dps. A summoner is a dps/utility class that doesnt do much dps, and doesnt have much utility.</p><p>I'm curious though... what do you classify a summoner as?</p></blockquote><p>Utility/DPS as you did, and they do more DPS than you guys will let on, As Koppar and Dorsan have shown, but everyone refuses to accept as reality.</p></blockquote><p>  i didn't bother to read past this point since i can all ready see it's all nonsense you speak sir.</p><p>  who cares what those two necros do for damage?   DAMAGE IS NOT THE ISSUE..  capish?</p><p>  further more i didn't post asking for advice i KNOW how to play ALL my classes.  i don't need anyone telling me how to play BY THE WAY </p><p> a HUGE LOL at posting parses thinking they are at all relevant to CLASS when over 30% of it is RAID GEAR PROCS    DURRRR     and class EVEN A BARD parses those numbers USING said gear. </p><p> does that GEAR come standard with the CLASS?  no</p><p>  can ANY class take advantage of that gear?  yes</p><p> how does that have ANY relevance to summoners needing more survivability?  NONE   </p><p> please s.t.f.u.   </p></blockquote><p>Need glasses? 4% torrent dmg? Wow awsome totaly there are 10% raid procs.</p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zanther wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zanther wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I absolutely love when someone from a class that needs a buff(Not huge) comes in saying they are pretty good just take effort an thought to play others will come in saying that it's all a lie and the advice is useless instead of listening</p></blockquote><p>And heres where you contidict yourself and make everything you say incorrect.</p><p>When a class requires you to put in more effort than another class in order to get even close to the same results is the definition of underpowered.</p></blockquote><p>How do you draw the conclusion? That would only be true if every class was meant to do the same thing on it's own. A dirge is not supposed to do as much DPS as an assassin, but can parse fairly close if they put effort into it, does that make a dirge underpowered? No, It means that class has a different role than an assassin, for the most part, there is some grey areas though.</p></blockquote><p>Dirge is a support class, with useful group songs to make up for the dps. A summoner is a dps/utility class that doesnt do much dps, and doesnt have much utility.</p><p>I'm curious though... what do you classify a summoner as?</p></blockquote><p>Utility/DPS as you did, and they do more DPS than you guys will let on, As Koppar and Dorsan have shown, but everyone refuses to accept as reality.</p></blockquote><p>  i didn't bother to read past this point since i can all ready see it's all nonsense you speak sir.</p><p>  who cares what those two necros do for damage?   DAMAGE IS NOT THE ISSUE..  capish?</p><p>  further more i didn't post asking for advice i KNOW how to play ALL my classes.  i don't need anyone telling me how to play BY THE WAY </p><p> a HUGE LOL at posting parses thinking they are at all relevant to CLASS when over 30% of it is RAID GEAR PROCS    DURRRR     and class EVEN A BARD parses those numbers USING said gear. </p><p> does that GEAR come standard with the CLASS?  no</p><p>  can ANY class take advantage of that gear?  yes</p><p> how does that have ANY relevance to summoners needing more survivability?  NONE   </p><p> please s.t.f.u.   </p></blockquote><p>Need glasses? 4% torrent dmg? Wow awsome totaly there are 10% raid procs.</p></blockquote><p> 4%?   where? </p><p>also that has nothing to do with the point I AM MAKING that summoners need more PERSONAL SURVIVABILITY.</p> <p> sorc and locks can put up more damage and have personal survivability AA's. </p> <p> the summoners pet-dependent survivability is useless because it's far too easy to by-pass the pet in a BG's setting.</p> <p> you two people keep putting up damage parses like it matters when in FACT it's not even part of the discussion for summoners what they need is survivability. </p> <p> also NECROS need a break on health penalty abilities.</p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p>Think stux or what ever his name is have complained over summoners dps 10 times in this threads.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Think stux or what ever his name is have complained over summoners dps 10 times in this threads.</p></blockquote><p>And? Like I've said hundreds of times already.</p><p>Why bring a summoner,and yes..the do have terrible dps,when you could bring a scout who will actually accomplish something..like busrting people down in five seconds or less?</p><p>Anyone who brings a summoner over a scout or even a sorceror for DPS in a PVP setting is an absolute [Removed for Content].</p>

[Corydonn]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Anyone who brings a summoner over a scout or even a sorceror for DPS in a PVP setting is an absolute [Removed for Content].</p></blockquote><p>I love taking a conjuror in my group for Smugglers. Blaze seed is more than amazing for upping my dps and he's fairly good at microing that tank pet bringing alot of utility to our group. Especially to compensate for my poor AE taunting if Divide and Conquer is down, And if we have a warlock the Conjuror Knockbacks timed with Rift is probably the most deadly thing in Smuggler's Den.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Anyone who brings a summoner over a scout or even a sorceror for DPS in a PVP setting is an absolute [Removed for Content].</p></blockquote><p>I love taking a conjuror in my group for Smugglers. Blaze seed is more than amazing for upping my dps and he's fairly good at microing that tank pet bringing alot of utility to our group. Especially to compensate for my poor AE taunting if Divide and Conquer is down, And if we have a warlock the Conjuror Knockbacks timed with Rift is probably the most deadly thing in Smuggler's Den.</p></blockquote><p>Then you,sir,are a [Removed for Content]. Sorry to say,but that's just how it is. Fire seed's DPS is so minimal that you might as well not cast it. Using the tank pet in BG's is complete fail. Reasons: No DPS,poor taunting ability,and the conjuror is still going to die the second any scout gets on him.</p><p>As I said,if you bring a conjuror over any other DPS class,you are a [Removed for Content],and if you're trying to bring a conjuror for utility,then you're an even bigger [Removed for Content].</p>

[Corydonn]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><p>conjuror is still going to die the second any scout gets on him.</p></blockquote><p>lol taunts.... Hahahaha</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><p>conjuror is still going to die the second any scout gets on him.</p></blockquote><p>lol taunts.... Hahahaha</p></blockquote><p>So you're telling me that your going to keep everyone taunt locked for the entire time,even though you just said you had poor AE taunts,and keep them from killing the conjuror? All it takes is a second or two for any scout to put down a conjuror.</p><p>Cool story bro.</p>

[Corydonn]

<p>Ah nevermind, Just keep complaining. Conjurors are pretty beast in my opinion but good ones are far and few, My toughest duels have actually been against a conjuror on my server that no longer plays. I'd love to see what he could do in BGs.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ah nevermind, Just keep complaining. Conjurors are pretty beast in my opinion but good ones are far and few, My toughest duels have actually been against a conjuror on my server that no longer plays. I'd love to see what he could do in BGs.</p></blockquote><p>Keep dreaming if you think conjurors are beast in anyway. I'm just going to keep calling you a [Removed for Content],and laying things out like the are.</p><p>Conjuror DPS and survivability are poor. FACT.</p><p>Anyone who would bring a conjuror over a scout for DPS is a [Removed for Content]. Fact.</p><p>Anyone who would bring a conjuror with a tank pet for extra taunts over a second tank is a [Removed for Content]. Fact.</p><p>Anyone who would bring a conjuror over a bard/enchanter for utility is a [Removed for Content]. Fact.</p><p>Conjurors in their current state are useless in PVP when compared to other DPS classes or other utility classes(though conjurors are in NO WAY a utility class).</p><p>If you lost to a conjuror as a brawler,you are absolutely terrible. FACT.</p>

[Dorsan]

Did anyone else notice how the people that are advocating for the need to buff summoners throw in insults in nearly every single post?

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Dorsan@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Did anyone else notice how the people that are advocating for the need to buff summoners throw in insults in nearly every single post?</blockquote><p>Did anyone else notice how people saying summoners are fine can't understand the simple concept of a broken class?</p><p>Conjuror DPS and survivability are poor. FACT.</p><p>Anyone who would bring a conjuror over a scout for DPS is a [Removed for Content]. Fact.</p><p>Anyone who would bring a conjuror with a tank pet for extra taunts over a second tank is a [Removed for Content]. Fact.</p><p>Anyone who would bring a conjuror over a bard/enchanter for utility is a [Removed for Content]. Fact.</p><p>Conjurors in their current state are useless in PVP when compared to other DPS classes or other utility classes(though conjurors are in NO WAY a utility class).</p><p>If you lost to a conjuror as a brawler,you are absolutely terrible. FACT.</p><p>When a class is usless,because every other class is better at doing everything the conjuror does,that class is broken. No one in their right mind would chose a conjuror over any other class for the above reasons.</p>

[TuinalOfTheNexus]

<p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ah nevermind, Just keep complaining. Conjurors are pretty beast in my opinion but good ones are far and few, My toughest duels have actually been against a conjuror on my server <span style="color: #ff0000;">that no longer plays</span>. I'd love to see what he could do in BGs.</p></blockquote><p>Not sure whose argument you're actually supporting there...</p>

[Dorsan]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Did anyone else notice how people saying summoners are fine can't understand the simple concept of a broken class?</p><p>Conjuror DPS and survivability are poor. FACT.</p><p>Anyone who would bring a conjuror over a scout for DPS is a <strong>[Removed for Content]</strong>. Fact.</p><p>Anyone who would bring a conjuror with a tank pet for extra taunts over a second tank is a <strong>[Removed for Content]</strong>. Fact.</p><p>Anyone who would bring a conjuror over a bard/enchanter for utility is a <strong>[Removed for Content]</strong>. Fact.</p><p>Conjurors in their current state are useless in PVP when compared to other DPS classes or other utility classes(though conjurors are in NO WAY a utility class).</p><p>If you lost to a conjuror as a brawler,<strong>you are absolutely terrible</strong>. FACT.</p><p>When a class is usless,because every other class is better at doing everything the conjuror does,that class is broken. No one in their right mind would chose a conjuror over any other class for the above reasons.</p></blockquote><p>Point proven. /ignore Stuckx</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Dorsan@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Did anyone else notice how people saying summoners are fine can't understand the simple concept of a broken class?</p><p>Conjuror DPS and survivability are poor. FACT.</p><p>Anyone who would bring a conjuror over a scout for DPS is a poopie head. Fact.</p><p>Anyone who would bring a conjuror with a tank pet for extra taunts over a second tank is a poopie head. Fact.</p><p>Anyone who would bring a conjuror over a bard/enchanter for utility is a poopie head. Fact.</p><p>Conjurors in their current state are useless in PVP when compared to other DPS classes or other utility classes(though conjurors are in NO WAY a utility class).</p><p>If you lost to a conjuror as a brawler,<strong>you are an absolute poopie head</strong> FACT.</p><p>When a class is usless,because every other class is better at doing everything the conjuror does,that class is broken. No one in their right mind would chose a conjuror over any other class for the above reasons.</p></blockquote><p>Point proven. /ignore Stuckx</p></blockquote><p>And what point did you prove? You completely ignore the entire post,just because I'm insulting the morons who would chose a conjuror over a scout for DPS.</p><p>Just for funsies,I'll throw it all up again.</p><p>Conjuror DPS and survivability are poor. FACT.</p><p>Anyone who would bring a conjuror over a scout for DPS is a poopie head. Fact.</p><p>Anyone who would bring a conjuror with a tank pet for extra taunts over a second tank is a poopie head. Fact.</p><p>Anyone who would bring a conjuror over a bard/enchanter for utility is a poopie head. Fact.</p><p>Conjurors in their current state are useless in PVP when compared to other DPS classes or other utility classes(though conjurors are in NO WAY a utility class).</p><p>If you lost to a conjuror as a brawler,you are an absolute poopie head. FACT.</p><p>Btw,feel free to tell me how I'm wrong here.</p><p>Also,edited to make it more friendly for the thin skinned people.</p>

[Corydonn]

<p><cite>TuinalOfTheNexus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ah nevermind, Just keep complaining. Conjurors are pretty beast in my opinion but good ones are far and few, My toughest duels have actually been against a conjuror on my server <span style="color: #ff0000;">that no longer plays</span>. I'd love to see what he could do in BGs.</p></blockquote><p>Not sure whose argument you're actually supporting there...</p></blockquote><p>I still run BG's with a conjuror that I put in my group every time in Smuggler's. He can output as much damage as I can and take some hits even if he does get left alone. I am actually really disappointed to see that all the Nagafen and other server conjurors have nothing to offer but complaints, I was really looking forward to some challenges just like Vendela used to give me on the SS docks before he went back to Guild Wars and Aion.</p>

[mrsma]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><p>conjuror is still going to die the second any scout gets on him.</p></blockquote><p>lol taunts.... Hahahaha</p></blockquote><p>So you're telling me that your going to keep everyone taunt locked for the entire time,even though you just said you had poor AE taunts,and keep them from killing the conjuror? <span style="font-size: medium; color: #ff0000;"><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">All it takes is a second or two for any scout to put down a conjuror.</span></strong></span></p><p>Cool story bro.</p></blockquote><p>By repeating yourself over and over and over again you are obviously running out of things to say.  All your argument is proving is that you do not group with healers (or good healers), that you run in PUG's and moan when the other team destroys you due to your PUG running round like headless chickens OR maybe everyone has you on /ignore</p><p>RED = not if you have a healer and / or a tank in the group.  If i were you I would just stay on your warden and try to heal the Conjurer's who are doing fine.</p><p>Move on dude.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>mrsmall wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><p>conjuror is still going to die the second any scout gets on him.</p></blockquote><p>lol taunts.... Hahahaha</p></blockquote><p>So you're telling me that your going to keep everyone taunt locked for the entire time,even though you just said you had poor AE taunts,and keep them from killing the conjuror? <span style="color: #ff0000; font-size: medium;"><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">All it takes is a second or two for any scout to put down a conjuror.</span></strong></span></p><p>Cool story bro.</p></blockquote><p>By repeating yourself over and over and over again you are obviously running out of things to say.  All your argument is proving is that you do not group with healers (or good healers), that you run in PUG's and moan when the other team destroys you due to your PUG running round like headless chickens OR maybe everyone has you on /ignore</p><p>RED = not if you have a healer and / or a tank in the group.  If i were you I would just stay on your warden and try to heal the Conjurer's who are doing fine.</p><p>Move on dude.</p></blockquote><p>What else is there to say,honestly? Conjurors have the worst survivability out of any other class in the game. Couple that with the lack of DPS since the resist fix and you have a completely broken and useless class.</p><p>I've said it once,and I'll say it again. You're a [Removed for Content] if you would choose a conjuror over any other DPS class for PVP. That makes the class broken. THE FACT THAT IT IS USELESS.</p><p>Conjurors supposedly trade survivability for DPS,but as it stands the DPS is pretty terrible and playing a conjuror for DPS when you could just roll a scout and do a thousand times better in PVP is just stupid.</p>

[Valdar]

<p>Please stop repeat posting.</p><p>We get the point that conjurors need some love. Hell, I even agree with some points you make but spamming the same over and over just makes you look like the kind of guy that got dumped by his gf, can't move on and spends his time locked in a dark room crying while sniffing her panties....</p><p>Move on please..</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Phaust@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Please stop repeat posting.</p><p>We get the point that conjurors need some love. Hell, I even agree with some points you make but spamming the same over and over just makes you look like the kind of guy that got dumped by his gf, can't move on and spends his time locked in a dark room crying while sniffing her panties....</p><p>Move on please..</p></blockquote><p>It's the only thing that works. Everyone here arguing to keep summoners [Removed for Content] is just [Removed for Content] because they got hit by an EB when it was OP.</p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p>And the only thing you do is spam and spam some insluts to everyone not agreeing with you?</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And the only thing you do is spam and spam some insluts to everyone not agreeing with you?</p></blockquote><p>Because the only people not agreeing with me,you and a few others,are morons to be honest.</p><p>There is absolutely no way you can argue against this,because every single point is one hundred percent true. When the class is absolutely terrible in every way,and another class does everything the first class does ten times bettter,then I am inclined to believe the first class is broken.</p><p>Conjuror DPS and survivability are poor. FACT.</p><p>Anyone who would bring a conjuror over a scout for DPS is a [Removed for Content]. Fact.</p><p>Anyone who would bring a conjuror with a tank pet for extra taunts over a second tank is a [Removed for Content]. Fact.</p><p>Anyone who would bring a conjuror over a bard/enchanter for utility is a [Removed for Content]. Fact.</p><p>Conjurors in their current state are useless in PVP when compared to other DPS classes or other utility classes(though conjurors are in NO WAY a utility class).</p><p>If you lost to a conjuror as a brawler,you are absolutely terrible. FACT.</p>

[Davngr1]

<p>well some people tend to become frustrated with people who post no relevant information about the class and instead only use the terms  "ME"  "I"  "MY" to suggest that a class if fine.   when in fact they NEVER actually address any class issues.</p> <p> the FACT is when you place ALL the mages together and analyze all their survivability tools you come to the conclusion that summoner survivability is directly dependent on the pet. </p> <p> this is fine, actually it's the most effective survivability in a PvE world BUT when the opponent does not respect aggression tables and instead KILLS the summoner these "tools" become borderline USELESS.    this game was designed for PvE only PvP was an after thought and all this time has been spent correcting these issues.</p> <p>   i have never commented on these issues because i NEVER played PvP now that i DO play PvP i can comment and it's quite clear that summoner survivability vs. utility/dps is under-proportioned.</p><p> now please post another video or a parse or better yet have some random person come praise how good of a player you are.  </p><p> because this isn't about the class it's all about you!</p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>well some people tend to become frustrated with people who post no relevant information about the class and instead only use the terms  "ME"  "I"  "MY" to suggest that a class if fine.   when in fact they NEVER actually address any class issues.</p><p> the FACT is when you place ALL the mages together and analyze all their survivability tools you come to the conclusion that summoner survivability is directly dependent on the pet. </p><p> this is fine, actually it's the most effective survivability in a PvE world BUT when the opponent does not respect aggression tables and instead KILLS the summoner these "tools" become borderline USELESS.    this game was designed for PvE only PvP was an after thought and all this time has been spent correcting these issues.</p><p>  <em><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;"> i have never commented on these issues because i NEVER played PvP now that i DO play PvP i can comment and it's quite clear that summoner survivability vs. utility/dps is under-proportioned.</span></strong></em></p><p> now please post another video or a parse or better yet have some random person come praise how good of a player you are.  </p><p> because this isn't about the class it's all about you!</p></blockquote><p>Has been like that for 5 expacks now.</p>

[Novusod]

<p>I play on a pvp server and I have been saying since RoK that Nercos and Conjys should share damage with their pet. Example if summoner gets hit for 1000 damage the pet takes 500 damage and the summoner takes 500 damage. This would give them some of the survivability they desparately need.</p>

[Arcanias]

<p><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I play on a pvp server and I have been saying since RoK that Nercos and Conjys should share damage with their pet. Example if summoner gets hit for 1000 damage the pet takes 500 damage and the summoner takes 500 damage. This would give them some of the survivability they desparately need.</p></blockquote><p>I recommended the same idea in the form of a temp buff that combines hitpoints with the summoner's pet.  So the average summoner's shared life pool in T9 would be ~20-30 k hitpoints and the pet would have the same exact amount of life.  However, when either the pet or the summoner take damage, both life pools would drop. </p><p>On another topic EB still seems to hit harder than any sorcerer nukes, I think that is dumb.  Why should a pet have the most potent nuke in the game?  Give summoner's some more survivability, and hopefully the 15% spell damage boost in the next GU will balance casters out better.</p>

[thatonepersonx]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There is no point in trying to talk to you, You will only hear what you want to augment the point you have in your head instead of looking at it logically. I'm done with you.</p></blockquote><p>There is someone who apparently is blind to the facts. He just doesn't want his free kills taken away. Fix Necros/Conjs. </p>

[Allforgrog]

<p><cite>Arcanias@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I play on a pvp server and I have been saying since RoK that Nercos and Conjys should share damage with their pet. Example if summoner gets hit for 1000 damage the pet takes 500 damage and the summoner takes 500 damage. This would give them some of the survivability they desparately need.</p></blockquote><p>I recommended the same idea in the form of a temp buff that combines hitpoints with the summoner's pet.  So the average summoner's shared life pool in T9 would be ~20-30 k hitpoints and the pet would have the same exact amount of life.  However, when either the pet or the summoner take damage, both life pools would drop. </p><p>On another topic EB still seems to hit harder than any sorcerer nukes, I think that is dumb.  Why should a pet have the most potent nuke in the game?</p></blockquote><p>That is an interesting suggestion, made to be PvP only i think it just might work <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" />.</p><p>EB is nice, but it is not bigger than what wizards at least get, nor does it compete with what warlocks can cast when facing multiple targets. The only time it can really measure up is when plane shift+mythical proc+minion's mark proc+lots of pet gear  and with AA (no other means for us to increase this) has a 10% chance to spell DA.</p><p>Also, just to note, the spell is <em><span style="text-decoration: underline;">cast by the player through the pet</span></em>, against a well/mediocre geared player it will not one shot anyone even if RNG is freindly and we live long enough to finish casting plane shift/pet casts MM/mythical procs.</p>

[Dorsan]

<p><cite>Arcanias@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I recommended the same idea in the form of a temp buff that combines hitpoints with the summoner's pet.  So the average summoner's shared life pool in T9 would be ~20-30 k hitpoints and the pet would have the same exact amount of life.  However, when either the pet or the summoner take damage, both life pools would drop. </p></blockquote><p>This would never work with necros. We have tainted heals that heal our pet extremely if our healths would be linked, what would happen with tainted heals? You must understand that a necro with tainted heals can do 6k HPS on the pet. Plus my main hand has a 5k regenerating ward for the pet. On the flip side, necros who aren't geared enough would suffer from this, it would become more a weakness then a strength, because pet mitigation is extremely low, so a warlock could AE and do around 4x more damage to the necro because it would hit the necro and it would also hit the pet for 3x more and then that would kill the shared health pool very fast.</p>

[monrofayy]

<p><strong>every one is saying re-roll another char pieace of cake , no it's not actually  for me  for so many reason one being stubborn lol  i fix problems not run away from them, ect i  got only 1 char been  playing a mage/conj almost 10 years give or take between both games  im a single parent of 2 nightmares errr i mean kiddies  so i can't devote 24/7 to othe char on the whim because one ain't working, leveling,  do what i want, when i want it,  plus i gotta think about all the time i sunk into the char i play?!?!?! already! lately  when im not blinded by rage because it al but unplayable i found ways as a conj to well leverage  things  just to get by staying on high  HIGH  structures were im outta reach from even thefriggin rangers yet still able to pick off people here and there or use the $hitty mini teleport they gave conj's to swap places with pet to become ONE WITH THE WALL!! i can  blast people left and right not worry about getting blasted my self it sorta even's things out a bit at the very least help me sta alive longer then 30 secs [Removed for Content] everyday i keep hoping  someone over there looks into  this and helps us out  a little i heard somthing about them alowing the 15% spell damage big whoop thats for every one  thou just means to me i die FASTER !!! then i am not if im caught alone or not perched on somthing outta reach like  a [Removed for Content] pigeon  things  look bleak  im gonna keep doing what ever i gotta to win/survive,,</strong></p><h3><a class="l" href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FStructu re&ei=OMP4S7bIAYOKlweRzpTXCg&usg=AFQjCNGtsF9zlazIsc2xt0_JZvtZJi0bJg&sig2=g1gFx3Sh7zj3xcPgre8_pQ"><em><em></em></em></a></h3>

[Draag]

<p>You shouldn't have to re-roll.  They should fix the system so that it doesn't exlude classes.</p>

[Dorsan]

<p><cite>monrofayy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong>use the $hitty mini teleport they gave conj's to swap places with pet to become ONE WITH THE WALL!! i can  blast people left and right not worry about getting blasted my self</strong></p><h3><a class="l" href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FStructu re&ei=OMP4S7bIAYOKlweRzpTXCg&usg=AFQjCNGtsF9zlazIsc2xt0_JZvtZJi0bJg&sig2=g1gFx3Sh7zj3xcPgre8_pQ"><em><em></em></em></a></h3></blockquote><p>If you wrote what I think you did here then that is an exploit and can get you banned. A friend of mine got into the wall like that with his wizzy due to a rez once and he got a warning from a GM. If people report you for attacking them from within the wall you can get into trouble.</p>

[Allforgrog]

<p><cite>monrofayy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong> im gonna keep doing what ever i gotta to win/survive,,</strong></p><h3><a class="l" href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FStructu re&ei=OMP4S7bIAYOKlweRzpTXCg&usg=AFQjCNGtsF9zlazIsc2xt0_JZvtZJi0bJg&sig2=g1gFx3Sh7zj3xcPgre8_pQ"><em><em></em></em></a></h3></blockquote><p>Your stated exploit may help you survive, but i doubt you will contribute much to winning anything tbh.</p>

[Draag]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dorsan@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Did anyone else notice how people saying summoners are fine can't understand the simple concept of a broken class?</p><p>Conjuror DPS and survivability are poor. FACT.</p><p>Anyone who would bring a conjuror over a scout for DPS is a poopie head. Fact.</p><p>Anyone who would bring a conjuror with a tank pet for extra taunts over a second tank is a poopie head. Fact.</p><p>Anyone who would bring a conjuror over a bard/enchanter for utility is a poopie head. Fact.</p><p>Conjurors in their current state are useless in PVP when compared to other DPS classes or other utility classes(though conjurors are in NO WAY a utility class).</p><p>If you lost to a conjuror as a brawler,<strong>you are an absolute poopie head</strong> FACT.</p><p>When a class is usless,because every other class is better at doing everything the conjuror does,that class is broken. No one in their right mind would chose a conjuror over any other class for the above reasons.</p></blockquote><p>Point proven. /ignore Stuckx</p></blockquote><p>And what point did you prove? You completely ignore the entire post,just because I'm insulting the morons who would chose a conjuror over a scout for DPS.</p><p>Just for funsies,I'll throw it all up again.</p><p>Conjuror DPS and survivability are poor. FACT.</p><p>Anyone who would bring a conjuror over a scout for DPS is a poopie head. Fact.</p><p>Anyone who would bring a conjuror with a tank pet for extra taunts over a second tank is a poopie head. Fact.</p><p>Anyone who would bring a conjuror over a bard/enchanter for utility is a poopie head. Fact.</p><p>Conjurors in their current state are useless in PVP when compared to other DPS classes or other utility classes(though conjurors are in NO WAY a utility class).</p><p>If you lost to a conjuror as a brawler,you are an absolute poopie head. FACT.</p><p>Btw,feel free to tell me how I'm wrong here.</p><p>Also,edited to make it more friendly for the thin skinned people.</p></blockquote><p>I concur.</p><p>I know if I am making a Dream Team... I just have to have a Necro in my group /eyeroll</p>

[Blambil]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Keep dreaming if you think conjurors are beast in anyway. I'm just going to keep calling you a [Removed for Content],and laying things out like the are.<p>Conjuror DPS and survivability are poor. FACT.</p><p>Anyone who would bring a conjuror over a scout for DPS is a [Removed for Content]. Fact.</p><p>Anyone who would bring a conjuror with a tank pet for extra taunts over a second tank is a [Removed for Content]. Fact.</p><p>Anyone who would bring a conjuror over a bard/enchanter for utility is a [Removed for Content]. Fact.</p><p>Conjurors in their current state are useless in PVP when compared to other DPS classes or other utility classes(though conjurors are in NO WAY a utility class).</p><p>If you lost to a conjuror as a brawler,you are absolutely terrible. FACT.</p></blockquote><p>so true...</p>

[monrofayy]

<p>well the 15% spell boost didn't help much pet nukes when and if it ever lands a hit 20 dmg more !!   but the bigest thing i noticed thou is i DIE FASTER NOW!! @%^$^</p>

[Dorsan]

Since my post got deleted I'll try to rephrase it somehow. We should wait to see if they will change the ruleset again but under the current ruleset summoners need no help.

[monrofayy]

<p>what kinda crack you smoking !! when bg first went live it was fine the way things are now it's just crap  watch the video, look at the dam screen shots seriously  summoners need help !!compared to other casters we don't have much if anything to keep are selfs alive, defense, avoidence ect what the pet ? pif yeah it's not landing hits, there spells are like water on steel not sticking doing much of anything</p>

[Dorsan]

Dude, since the last GU we are more than ok.

[Draag]

<p>Well my necro is worthless in BG.. and since I am able to play other classes in BG, I know im not just a "crappy player".</p><p>I still dont hit for anything, the pet still sucks (and now i have to resummon every time i die since it changes my master pet to some other teir) and I die way, way faster... I respawned and started to type something in smugglers.. was dead before i typed the 3rd word, and I type about 50wpm.</p><p>So yeah..</p>

[Dorsan]

There must be something wrong with your gear or spec.

[Draag]

<p>Doubtful.</p>

[mrsma]

<p><cite>Dorsan@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Dude, since the last GU we are more than ok.</blockquote><p>Dorsan and I had an epic fight one on one in Moors. we agreed to give up after 30 mins. In short - He is a beast. Look at his spec / learn his skills.</p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p>Healers cant kill a necro now and we dont go oop so easy.</p>

[Arcanias]

<p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;">I think when SOE fixes dumbfire pets like they said they were going to do, this will hopefully give summoners a nice boost, as well as any other class that has dumbfire pets.  As a Warlock, I am looking forward to casting my "Space Lobster" aka Netherlord, and having it be useful in both pvp and pve.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;">The 15 % boost to pvp spell damage is nice, but I think pvp damage reduction is too high now with toughness/pvp crit mit/maxed resists.  Fights should last longer than 1 sec but they should'nt last forever either.  It's all about balance, which I know is extremely hard to do in a game with so much diversity with classes and gear, but if SOE remains active in at least trying to balance the game for pvp, then that is a HUGE step in the right directon.  From what I can tell so far, at least they are trying, although not always succesful, at least they are more active in trying to fix pvp issues.  These beegees are a blessing because now SOE is actually listening to the demand for pvp balance.</span></p>

[Draag]

<p>Stalemating a healer?  That is what you are gonna base your argument on?  Seriously?</p><p>Hmmm... You have a class that has infinite power and hits for little and can heal itself slightly vs. a class that hits for little, can heal it self easily and cure the other classes dots.</p><p>Yeah.  epic.</p><p>In BG, when I find myself 1v1 against a healer, I am very content to just fear them and walk away.  Sooner or later one of his buddies is gonna show up and wtfpwn me with autoattack or a dirty look. (you know, during the 30min epic battle)</p>

[Harbringer Doom]

<p><cite>Draagun wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Stalemating a healer?  That is what you are gonna base your argument on?  Seriously?</p><p>Hmmm... You have a class that has infinite power and hits for little and can heal itself slightly vs. a class that hits for little, can heal it self easily and cure the other classes dots.</p><p>Yeah.  epic.</p><p>In BG, when I find myself 1v1 against a healer, I am very content to just fear them and walk away.  Sooner or later one of his buddies is gonna show up and wtfpwn me with autoattack or a dirty look. (you know, during the 30min epic battle)</p></blockquote><p>Not for nothing, but appropriately specced Wardens do not "hit for a little".</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Horknut@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Draagun wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Stalemating a healer?  That is what you are gonna base your argument on?  Seriously?</p><p>Hmmm... You have a class that has infinite power and hits for little and can heal itself slightly vs. a class that hits for little, can heal it self easily and cure the other classes dots.</p><p>Yeah.  epic.</p><p>In BG, when I find myself 1v1 against a healer, I am very content to just fear them and walk away.  Sooner or later one of his buddies is gonna show up and wtfpwn me with autoattack or a dirty look. (you know, during the 30min epic battle)</p></blockquote><p>Not for nothing, but appropriately specced Wardens do not "hit for a little".</p></blockquote><p>Dont know where you heard that,but my warden in high end gear does terrible melee damage. I really only cast his CA's as an after thought,and I rarely going out solo because I cant really kill anything.</p>

[Dorsan]

Actually it was indeed an epic battle, got him down to deathsave a few times when I was ready to spike, but he managed to come back every time and after 30 minutes we were both at 100% health and power so we just gave up. But that battle was before the latest GU, right now necros are in a much better place compared to where we were back then. Yesterdays BG parse shows an average 50% avoidance for me (I was in with tank pet), with PvP physical mitigation around 65% and capped mitigation for all spell types I feel like a plate tank a bit and can't wait to get all the new gear pieces to get the PvP crit mit to 100% too. Right now a defensively geared necro can get to damage reduction only 20-30% worse than plate wearers, so no one should have any survivability issues.

[mrsma]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote</cite></p><blockquote>Dont know where you heard that,but <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>my warden in high end gear does terrible melee damage</strong></span>. I really only cast his CA's as an after thought,and <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>I rarely going out solo because I cant really kill anything</strong></span>.</blockquote><p>Then I am afraid you need to re-spec. Simple as that.</p><p>Mêlée Wardens are nasty <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" />. Seeing your kill count your warden is not your main, so you are excused, just this once. Anyways. Thread de-railed back to the main event.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>mrsmall wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote</cite></p><blockquote>Dont know where you heard that,but <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>my warden in high end gear does terrible melee damage</strong></span>. I really only cast his CA's as an after thought,and <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>I rarely going out solo because I cant really kill anything</strong></span>.</blockquote><p>Then I am afraid you need to re-spec. Simple as that.</p><p>Mêlée Wardens are nasty <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" />. Seeing your kill count your warden is not your main, so you are excused, just this once. Anyways. Thread de-railed back to the main event.</p></blockquote><p>/shrug</p><p>I am spec'd to heal..and I do a pretty good job of that..not worried about DPSing.I've got all my melee CA's and my auto attack multiplier just because there's nothing else worth getting. Even with auto attack multiplier and everything,since 90% of people play tanks with a crapton of damage reduction,most of my stuff only hits for 500 or lower,or just doesn't register at all.</p><p>No one should ever really die from a warden beating on them..if they do,it's because they were AFK..the fatal lifetaps and greater rune of mending should EASILY outheal any wardens DPS.</p>

[Harbringer Doom]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>mrsmall wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote</cite></p><blockquote>Dont know where you heard that,but <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>my warden in high end gear does terrible melee damage</strong></span>. I really only cast his CA's as an after thought,and <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>I rarely going out solo because I cant really kill anything</strong></span>.</blockquote><p>Then I am afraid you need to re-spec. Simple as that.</p><p>Mêlée Wardens are nasty <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" />. Seeing your kill count your warden is not your main, so you are excused, just this once. Anyways. Thread de-railed back to the main event.</p></blockquote><p>/shrug</p><p>I am spec'd to heal..and I do a pretty good job of that..not worried about DPSing.I've got all my melee CA's and my auto attack multiplier just because there's nothing else worth getting. Even with auto attack multiplier and everything,since 90% of people play tanks with a crapton of damage reduction,most of my stuff only hits for 500 or lower,or just doesn't register at all.</p><p>No one should ever really die from a warden beating on them..if they do,it's because they were AFK..the fatal lifetaps and greater rune of mending should EASILY outheal any wardens DPS.</p></blockquote><p>/shrug if you want, but you're doing your Warden a disservice, and you're misinforming the Warden population as a whole with this nonsense.</p><p>My girl's Warden heals like a monster AND DPS's like a champ.  No amount of procs, runes or lifetaps are going to outheal her DPS.</p><p>Play how you want, but you're not playing the toon to its potential if you say "Oh well, I'm just a healer.  I don't worry about DPS." </p>

[monrofayy]

<p> [Removed for Content] you don't worry about dps , but i sure as hell  do ,, since that was suppose to be the trade off for wearing toilet paper armour , in battle ground the dps is not exsistant we are left with nothing litterly , pets ain't doing jack damage and being ignored, got crud for healing  same go's for protection-spells , all it takes someone to just turn on auto-attack 2 shot conj's are dead!! hell im afraid to take crap in fear of seeing " pleas wait loading"  amazed  they haven't looked into this already  i can understand was somthing minor yeah sure , but this come on, only way conj gonna earn token is  use other people in battle ground to hide behind or travel with the pack not  do NOTHING because once you send your pet to attack or cast a dot your locked in combat and move 1 foot a min and since we ain't putting damage anuff to be worth staying and fighting  where bone if we do cast on someone</p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p><cite>Horknut@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>mrsmall wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote</cite></p><blockquote>Dont know where you heard that,but <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>my warden in high end gear does terrible melee damage</strong></span>. I really only cast his CA's as an after thought,and <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>I rarely going out solo because I cant really kill anything</strong></span>.</blockquote><p>Then I am afraid you need to re-spec. Simple as that.</p><p>Mêlée Wardens are nasty <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" />. Seeing your kill count your warden is not your main, so you are excused, just this once. Anyways. Thread de-railed back to the main event.</p></blockquote><p>/shrug</p><p>I am spec'd to heal..and I do a pretty good job of that..not worried about DPSing.I've got all my melee CA's and my auto attack multiplier just because there's nothing else worth getting. Even with auto attack multiplier and everything,since 90% of people play tanks with a crapton of damage reduction,most of my stuff only hits for 500 or lower,or just doesn't register at all.</p><p>No one should ever really die from a warden beating on them..if they do,it's because they were AFK..the fatal lifetaps and greater rune of mending should EASILY outheal any wardens DPS.</p></blockquote><p>/shrug if you want, but you're doing your Warden a disservice, and you're misinforming the Warden population as a whole with this nonsense.</p><p>My girl's Warden heals like a monster AND DPS's like a champ.  No amount of procs, runes or lifetaps are going to outheal her DPS.</p><p>Play how you want, but you're not playing the toon to its potential if you say "Oh well, I'm just a healer.  I don't worry about DPS." </p></blockquote><p>dont think a warden would be able to out dps my lifetaps at the same time they have to heal dps.</p>

[Harbringer Doom]

<p><cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Horknut@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>mrsmall wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote</cite></p><blockquote>Dont know where you heard that,but <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>my warden in high end gear does terrible melee damage</strong></span>. I really only cast his CA's as an after thought,and <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>I rarely going out solo because I cant really kill anything</strong></span>.</blockquote><p>Then I am afraid you need to re-spec. Simple as that.</p><p>Mêlée Wardens are nasty <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" />. Seeing your kill count your warden is not your main, so you are excused, just this once. Anyways. Thread de-railed back to the main event.</p></blockquote><p>/shrug</p><p>I am spec'd to heal..and I do a pretty good job of that..not worried about DPSing.I've got all my melee CA's and my auto attack multiplier just because there's nothing else worth getting. Even with auto attack multiplier and everything,since 90% of people play tanks with a crapton of damage reduction,most of my stuff only hits for 500 or lower,or just doesn't register at all.</p><p>No one should ever really die from a warden beating on them..if they do,it's because they were AFK..the fatal lifetaps and greater rune of mending should EASILY outheal any wardens DPS.</p></blockquote><p>/shrug if you want, but you're doing your Warden a disservice, and you're misinforming the Warden population as a whole with this nonsense.</p><p>My girl's Warden heals like a monster AND DPS's like a champ.  No amount of procs, runes or lifetaps are going to outheal her DPS.</p><p>Play how you want, but you're not playing the toon to its potential if you say "Oh well, I'm just a healer.  I don't worry about DPS." </p></blockquote><p>dont think a warden would be able to out dps my lifetaps at the same time they have to heal dps.</p></blockquote><p>I'm not sure of your point.  Are you saying a Warden could never beat you 1 v 1?</p>

[Dorsan]

I doubt a warden can beat a necro 1on1 if they are in comparable gear.

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p><cite>Horknut@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Horknut@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>mrsmall wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote</cite></p><blockquote>Dont know where you heard that,but <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>my warden in high end gear does terrible melee damage</strong></span>. I really only cast his CA's as an after thought,and <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>I rarely going out solo because I cant really kill anything</strong></span>.</blockquote><p>Then I am afraid you need to re-spec. Simple as that.</p><p>Mêlée Wardens are nasty <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" />. Seeing your kill count your warden is not your main, so you are excused, just this once. Anyways. Thread de-railed back to the main event.</p></blockquote><p>/shrug</p><p>I am spec'd to heal..and I do a pretty good job of that..not worried about DPSing.I've got all my melee CA's and my auto attack multiplier just because there's nothing else worth getting. Even with auto attack multiplier and everything,since 90% of people play tanks with a crapton of damage reduction,most of my stuff only hits for 500 or lower,or just doesn't register at all.</p><p>No one should ever really die from a warden beating on them..if they do,it's because they were AFK..the fatal lifetaps and greater rune of mending should EASILY outheal any wardens DPS.</p></blockquote><p>/shrug if you want, but you're doing your Warden a disservice, and you're misinforming the Warden population as a whole with this nonsense.</p><p>My girl's Warden heals like a monster AND DPS's like a champ.  No amount of procs, runes or lifetaps are going to outheal her DPS.</p><p>Play how you want, but you're not playing the toon to its potential if you say "Oh well, I'm just a healer.  I don't worry about DPS." </p></blockquote><p>dont think a warden would be able to out dps my lifetaps at the same time they have to heal dps.</p></blockquote><p>I'm not sure of your point.  Are you saying a Warden could never beat you 1 v 1?</p></blockquote><p>Yepp a Warden could never kill me 1v1</p>

[Draag]

<p>Any healer I come across in BG pretty much gets feared, DD'd and left alone.  They are usually content to leave me alone too.</p><p>My solution to the problem so far has been to play my Inq. on the 40-49bg.  It is a lot more fun, a lot less frustrating and I actually contribute (I win about 80% of my pug Klak matches)  When I play my necro, I am generally at the mercy of the skill/makeup of the rest of the group.  I can carry a team in Klak with my Inq.  with my t9 necro.. forget about it.</p><p>Survivablity has improved, but now with the new pet bug... I dread doing my daily AA mission with him.</p>

[Dorsan]

Yeah, the pet bug is most annoying.

[Brynhild]

<p>With good gear here are some fights that will never end:</p><p>crusader vs crusader</p><p>priest vs priest</p><p>priest vs crusader</p><p>priest vs sorc (with mending proc and lifetaps)</p><p>almost any fighter vs any other fighter but is not 100% like the above</p><p>priest vs necro is pretty tough although doable, a fury is probably the best priest to take on mages and tanks, and inquis or warden or shaman to take on scouts, although defilers do well against mages</p><p>I've had (thanks to being on vox with low population)  over hour long 1v1's with priests and crusaders eventually one of us giving up and leaving.. Even had 2 hour crusader vs crusader fight.</p><p>People think you are scared if you keep running when they attack, but the real issue is if another healer attacks me i'm just going to ignore them because I don't have an hour to fight it out lol</p>

[NicolasKL]

<p><cite>Draagun wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well my necro is worthless in BG.. and since I am able to play other classes in BG, I know im not just a "crappy player".</p><p>  </p></blockquote><p>Are you sure?  Just did a Klak with a necro and he topped the parse.</p>

[monrofayy]

<p><strong> yeah as a conj i gotta stop to cast anything ive gotta  everything i could find on spell casting speed /reuse  still ain't anuff, CAST, move, cast-move-cast-move'  </strong>other day stood there unloaded all my damage spells   did  !! i swear to god mabe 3% damage  person just turn went BAM 2-3  shots hp $hit the toilet, im in full BG gear no we have the lovely app 1 bug hitting our pets which just makes it all the more fun !!</p>

[bRz]

<p>I miss the old days when koppar and dorsan were freeps, we had some good fights back in the old days, i havent found a decent necro to fight since you guys came over.</p><p>/hugs</p><p>Lonely (Mystic)</p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p><cite>bRz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I miss the old days when koppar and dorsan were freeps, we had some good fights back in the old days, i havent found a decent necro to fight since you guys came over.</p><p>/hugs</p><p>Lonely (Mystic)</p></blockquote><p>Your spell reflect was retarted lol <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[NicolasKL]

<p><cite>monrofayy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong> </strong> im in full BG gear</p></blockquote><p>Mastercrafted, right?  Your gear is GARBAGE.  If your gear is total junk, and you haven't played enough to GET decent gear (i.e. you're probably not a very good player, and you're definitely not very experienced), how do you expect to NOT get stomped in BGs?  You should just stop posting, nothing you say is going to advance your side of the argument one iota.</p><p>In PvE players in all player crafted gear are going to suck, why would you expect it to be any different in PvP?</p>

[Darlordofthesith8969]

<p><cite>monrofayy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><img src="http://i44.tinypic.com/34qahvo.jpg" width="500" height="213" /></p><p>THIS is only small part of it,   person pretty much just stood there let me and my pet unload everything on them and pretty much just laughed  my pet is a lvl 90 master air with all my AA"S Dedicated to making my pets best they can be with what is given  ! all my spells are at master quality  ME ANd my pet just out right get resisted by pretty much every one or when a shot does land it does 100-300 dmg  give or take ??   not just conj's but casters in general need some serious help  , ive noticed clerics ect running by me in battle grounds not even slowing down to nuke me it's just bam one shot im dead they just keep on running ?!?! were getting mowed  over!  im wearing a full set player made BG GEar i figured it might at least buy me a few more sec's of life (* MAN I was wrong*)  as a conj keeping people at a distance is <em>Impossible  keeping them in range even more so! survivablity is the main issue !! stopping to cast a spell is a big bottle neck  because your trying to fight and same time keep a safe distance away! conj's & other casters don't have the defense to handle it, we  traded it for ablity to do  damage ! THat ATm  i sure ain't seeing?      i don't want anything handed to me on a silver platter but look at it this way</em></p><p> <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>IF i'm gonna die then i wanna go down fighting or least have a fighting chance that is all...</strong></span></p></blockquote><p>LOLZ, I play an assassin and I'm constantly get 1 or 2 shotted by wizzies locks conjies and necros, mezzers take at least 2 more shots to kill me with thier mezz's and lockdowns, I'm in t1 and a couple of t2 bg armor pieces and it seems to mean bugga all, u might wanna look at ur aa build, spell types i:e master, expert etc, also look at ur casting orders. I would also suggest having a look at ur classes info on eq2flames since most the people there r either pvp players or in high end guilds.</p><p>BG jewelery is also pretty awesome for abilities and resists.</p>

[bRz]

<p><cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>bRz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I miss the old days when koppar and dorsan were freeps, we had some good fights back in the old days, i havent found a decent necro to fight since you guys came over.</p><p>/hugs</p><p>Lonely (Mystic)</p></blockquote><p>Your spell reflect was retarted lol <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Well ya, but I didn't want to get your spells all over me I'm rubber and you're glue...</p>

[Draag]

<p><cite>NicolasKL wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Draagun wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well my necro is worthless in BG.. and since I am able to play other classes in BG, I know im not just a "crappy player".</p></blockquote><p>Are you sure?  Just did a Klak with a necro and he topped the parse.</p></blockquote><p>I top the parse too sometimes.. It usually dosen't go well if I'm the top DPS.</p>