Fury, Mystic Mythical Nerf [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Meows

05-11-2010, 04:26 PM

With the stealth change to they fury mythical we now are getting ability mod instead of 10% of our wisdom added onto potency. This is a big change to our HoTs, now we get 140 (assuming 1400 wisdom) more ability mod, and lose 140 per tick of our HoTs. This also affected DoTs, we would have gotten 140 more damage to each tick of our DoTs. We have 3 DoTs, one of which is from AA.This was an issue you had with the SK's reaver, and it ends up getting taken out of the fury. I don't know of any ability that gives us any percentage based heals, or nukes. Why did this get changed? If its an item problem are they not supposed to be unaffected by potency?As far as i can tell the fury gets one of the weakest mythical buffs for themselves out of all of them. Our proc works only when we are dpsing, our 10% wisdom doesn't mean much of anything now. The only "useful" thing is the buff to a healer to give heal mod.If you are going to nerf the fury's ability to dps and heal, at least change the 10% wisdom buff to something usefulto give you an idea of what kind of nerf you just gave us (based on 1400 wisdom):you took away 17.2% potency from our single target HoTyou took away 17% potency from our group HoTyou took away 27.4% potency from Death Swarmyou took away 26.7% potency from Tempestyou took away 2.9% potency from Thunderboltyou took away 3.3% potency from Starnovaas well as any of our group heals, will get only 3.3% of our wisdom added onto them because of ability mod only being 1/3 effective for AoE stuff. Basically this is a HUGE downgrade for the fury class for this to go live.For any other class that has similar mythicals let me know if its all of them, because i play a wizard for fun, not to raid with and don't test mechanics for them

Kunaak

05-12-2010, 03:06 AM

given that generally, furys are considerd extremely weak healers in comparison to any other healer class - nerfing them even further for some reason, is just bad.

Spritelady

05-12-2010, 09:35 AM

The 10% to damage and heals was added BECAUSE our epic was so ridiculously bad. Now you are gonna nerf it back to crap?Why bother even getting it?

Megavolt

05-12-2010, 05:05 PM

I don't even play a fury and I think that was uncalled for. For a class that most heals are a per tick showing, having only the first tick recieve the benefits of their myth is very disappointing.

Meows

05-12-2010, 05:33 PM

i'm waiting for Xelgad to confirm or deny that this is a bug. I hope its a bug from when they tried to fix something.

Crismorn

05-12-2010, 05:38 PM

<cite>Kunaak wrote:</cite><blockquote>given that generally, furys are considerd extremely weak healers in comparison to any other healer class - nerfing them even further for some reason, is just bad.</blockquote>I think nerfing their mythical was stupid and should be changed back, but that is entirely wrong Fury's are very capable healers right now in every aspect of this game

Banditman

05-12-2010, 05:48 PM

<cite>Meows@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>i'm waiting for Xelgad to confirm or deny that this is a bug. I hope its a bug from when they tried to fix something.</blockquote>It's no bug. Mystics were also nerfed in exactly the same way.

Meows

05-12-2010, 06:02 PM

thank you for the info banditman, i would assume that this would be the same case for the templar mythical working for their reactives. I just hope this is an issue in the implementation they took when they put it into effect and they just messed it up. (i'm trying to be positive)

Anastasie

05-12-2010, 06:07 PM

This is a horrible change and the amount of ability mod is pathetic. Please give us back our base%. This makes our myth buff beyond crap.

Chaoticzero

05-12-2010, 10:25 PM

How this was a good idea is beyond me.. Since SF I have loved playing my fury. This change is pretty uncalled for imo. Please change this back to the way it was.

Travleer33

05-12-2010, 11:52 PM

Im very upset about the mystic nerf myself. the Fury sounds equally rediculous. [Removed for Content] is going on over there.

quetzaqotl

05-13-2010, 08:12 AM

/signed with disgust hate how they just pull stuff like that

Oakum

05-13-2010, 12:30 PM

Join the crowd. With the nerf they did to the wardens power proc, in BG I can spam heal and run out of power only a hair slower in a prolonged brawl then any other healer class which was normal pre myth. . Sometimes I wonder if its even working. I dont see the reason for the fury/mystic nerfs either though.

Gungo

05-13-2010, 12:44 PM

<cite>Oakum wrote:</cite><blockquote>Join the crowd. With the nerf they did to the wardens power proc, in BG I can spam heal and run out of power only a hair slower in a prolonged brawl then any other healer class which was normal pre myth. . Sometimes I wonder if its even working. I dont see the reason for the fury/mystic nerfs either though.</blockquote>This went over like a thousand times its all over the wardens/illus boards. you actually GAIN power from the change. Since the power proc has been changed to a buff and crit bonus is uncapped and the power proc now scales with level and the power proc crits. You gain more from the power proc then you did when you were able to proc it 6x from a group heal.

snowli

05-13-2010, 02:15 PM

Savage and unwarranted nerf, this better be a screw up in implementation.

Surculus

05-14-2010, 05:38 AM

<cite>Oakum wrote:</cite><blockquote>Join the crowd. With the nerf they did to the wardens power proc, in BG I can spam heal and run out of power only a hair slower in a prolonged brawl then any other healer class which was normal pre myth. . Sometimes I wonder if its even working. I dont see the reason for the fury/mystic nerfs either though.</blockquote>Never had a problem with power on my Warden in BG's and he only has his Epic. The Myth buff from the conversion will actually let the power regen crit, can't wait for then when I get around to getting him 85+.

Surculus

05-14-2010, 05:44 AM

Played a Fury since Venekor was launched, loved it all through KOS and EOF. Though once ROK came out most other classes leaped ahead in Damage, Heals and Survivability but Fury in my opinion. Once I hit 80 PvP was useless, we were killed long before we had time to react (Well at least I did). TSO didn't change a lot for me so I betreyed to warden before SF (Yeah I know, should have checked the SF previews before I did it.). Fury got a LOT of love in SF, honestly they needed it sicne it was a underpowered class for over 2 years. Now, slowly but surely you guys seem to be returning it to it's former state, sad to see.

Hamervelder

05-14-2010, 02:27 PM

<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Oakum wrote:</cite><blockquote>Join the crowd. With the nerf they did to the wardens power proc, in BG I can spam heal and run out of power only a hair slower in a prolonged brawl then any other healer class which was normal pre myth. . Sometimes I wonder if its even working. I dont see the reason for the fury/mystic nerfs either though.</blockquote>This went over like a thousand times its all over the wardens/illus boards. you actually GAIN power from the change. Since the power proc has been changed to a buff and crit bonus is uncapped and the power proc now scales with level and the power proc crits. You gain more from the power proc then you did when you were able to proc it 6x from a group heal. </blockquote>Your statement is only pheasable (and yet, still mostly false) if all of the following conditions are met:<ul><li>You are level 90</li><li>You have completed the quest and have your enervated weapon and buff</li><li>You have sufficient crit bonus</li></ul>For people who do not meet all of those conditions, meaning everyone who's between 80 and 90, and who has not done the quest, the warden epic is useless. The change to the warden epic did not result in a net gain; the change to the weapon itself resulted in a nearly 70% loss to its effectiveness. The fact that the proc is a buff now and not a weapon effect can result in a better performance, but doesn't always.Furthermore, you're incorrect in your assumption that the warden epic gives more power now than it did before. Let me explain. The bulk of our power regeneration came from group heals. The warden epic could previously proc off of every person in the group that was healed. That's a maximum value of about 3,000 power per group heal. Remember that figure. With the changes, even with the new buff, the proc won't be for more than 1k or so per heal. Let's stop right there a moment. Between both of my group heals, I used to be able to recoup nearly 6k power in two heals. Those same two heals, even with the new buff, grant 1/3 of that. How anyone could see that as a gain defies credulity. Yes, the proc on one heal has the potential to grant more power (1k on a crit vs ~500), but overall, the power return is still diminished. One need only reference the group heal totals that I've stated to see that.

Spritelady

05-14-2010, 02:51 PM

gloraron

05-14-2010, 03:15 PM

Expect to get the same answer shamans got in regards to deadly bane of warding getting nerfed. None. They simply don't care if this change upsets you.

Anastasie

05-14-2010, 07:50 PM

Hopefully we can get enough people to /bug and /petition to make sure our myth spell doesn't go to live this messed up.

Lethe5683

05-14-2010, 07:55 PM

Wow... good job getting rid of the only remotly useful part of the fury myth.

Meows

05-14-2010, 09:49 PM

I've been bugging it every time i log on test, still waiting for official word as to if its a bug or if it was an intended change

Anizlino5

05-14-2010, 10:54 PM

good luck, SoE developers are "too cool" to explain why they are chainging things in the game that have been active for over a year instead of maybe adding the healer weapons they forgot to add this expansion and still have not added.

Meows

05-15-2010, 04:29 AM

just for templars to know as well, i am pretty sure this is the deal, where your mythical will add ability mod to your reactives instead of potency, so if you are capped on ability mod, this portion of your mythical is worthless.Someone on test let me know if your reactives are doing less on test then on live.

Hamervelder

05-16-2010, 04:15 AM

<cite>Spritelady wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Illiam@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Oakum wrote:</cite><blockquote>Join the crowd. With the nerf they did to the wardens power proc, in BG I can spam heal and run out of power only a hair slower in a prolonged brawl then any other healer class which was normal pre myth. . Sometimes I wonder if its even working. I dont see the reason for the fury/mystic nerfs either though.</blockquote>This went over like a thousand times its all over the wardens/illus boards. you actually GAIN power from the change. Since the power proc has been changed to a buff and crit bonus is uncapped and the power proc now scales with level and the power proc crits. You gain more from the power proc then you did when you were able to proc it 6x from a group heal. </blockquote>Your statement is only pheasable (and yet, still mostly false) if all of the following conditions are met:<ul><li>You are level 90</li><li>You have completed the quest and have your enervated weapon and buff</li><li>You have sufficient crit bonus</li></ul>For people who do not meet all of those conditions, meaning everyone who's between 80 and 90, and who has not done the quest, the warden epic is useless. The change to the warden epic did not result in a net gain; the change to the weapon itself resulted in a nearly 70% loss to its effectiveness. The fact that the proc is a buff now and not a weapon effect can result in a better performance, but doesn't always.Furthermore, you're incorrect in your assumption that the warden epic gives more power now than it did before. Let me explain. The bulk of our power regeneration came from group heals. The warden epic could previously proc off of every person in the group that was healed. That's a maximum value of about 3,000 power per group heal. Remember that figure. With the changes, even with the new buff, the proc won't be for more than 1k or so per heal. Let's stop right there a moment. Between both of my group heals, I used to be able to recoup nearly 6k power in two heals. Those same two heals, even with the new buff, grant 1/3 of that. How anyone could see that as a gain defies credulity. Yes, the proc on one heal has the potential to grant more power (1k on a crit vs ~500), but overall, the power return is still diminished. One need only reference the group heal totals that I've stated to see that.</blockquote>It also only used to proc on crit heals, now it can proc off any heal. (However most raiding wardens were probably capped on crit so it didn't really change much for them) For instance geared wardens, this is probably a net gain.</blockquote>I doubt that it's a net gain for most people even with moderately-good gear. I had ~85% crit chance before SF, wearing mostly T2 and a couple of pieces of T3 gear. Maintaining full power was not a problem, even mentored down, when I'd have lower crit chance (due to scaling of gear). I had roughly 75% crit chance (which wasn't that great) self-buffed before the expansion, and never had any power problems. Even if the weapon only procced 25% of the time, just one group heal proc would bring back a massive portion of power. Coming back from zero power was pretty easy, in fact. Now? Forget it. You might get back 1k, on a critical proc from the buff, if you're lucky. After the nerf, the warden epic really is useless, unless you have the buff. Even then, all it does is slow down the power loss. With that in mind, I feel bad for folks who play other classes, such as furies, who are getting their epics nerfed. There's just no sense in it, really. Just like the nerf to the fury and mystic epics, it was a needless, and I dare say, ill-conceived change.

Meows

05-16-2010, 12:56 PM

i think this topic is starting to get off the subject... we aren't talking about the warden mythical, we are talking about the fury, mystic, and templar mythicals, or at least a portion of them

Ashlian

05-16-2010, 05:04 PM

One small step forward for furies, two giant steps back. My fury has been relegated to the backburner since TSO, after playing her as my main since launch. If there's a dev that actually plays a fury who has ever had anything to do with itemization or class mechanics, I've never seen them post. And I've never noticed, at any time I've played on Test before the launch of any change to mechanics that severely impacted a class, that feedback resulted in any constructive changes at all.Changes come, arbitrarily and usually months or years after players suggest them, either after we have spent countless threads informing them of the hash they've made of our class or after we've grown complacent with a piece of gear many have spent countless gameplay hours to get that is suddenly "fixed," telling me that player feedback might as well be called player venting. If it's read at all, it goes right in one dev ear and out the other.My fury will just remain on the backburner for another expansion.

SweetSynergy

05-16-2010, 07:28 PM

<cite>Meows@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>i think this topic is starting to get off the subject... we aren't talking about the warden mythical, we are talking about the fury, mystic, and templar mythicals, or at least a portion of them</blockquote>Title of this thread reads, " fury myth nerf" , yet you have added mystic and templar into your paragraph up there. So why cant we also add warden myth nerf into it? We got nerfed way back when and there was no support for us. Why not? Its not like we had much of anything else to boast about?A nerf is a nerf and no one should just simple sit back and say nothing till it directly affects them, yet thats how it usually goes.Does it suck to be nerfed? You can bet your life on it. Everyone one of us has tasted the nerf bat throughout this game and most people empathise with the chosen class thats on the butcherblock at any given time whether they play or have played the class or not.So if you are going to allow other healing classes to have their gripes about their nerfs in this thread, why not the wardens?Or does it go something like this? " Wardens your nerfs didnt matter, dont matter even now. but ours do."I truly am sorry you guys got nerfed. It really is horrible having something given to you , you learn to work with it and then " whammo " , without any word, its gone.

Meows

05-16-2010, 08:46 PM

mechanic wise, there was a change, that effects those 3, thats what i'm trying to get changed back to how it was

Anastasie

05-16-2010, 09:23 PM

No one is saying that we don't care that the warden (and mystic) mythicals were nerfed when all the power proc changes were implemented.This thread is regarding a new change that is currently on the test server that is affecting Furies/Mystics/Templars that changes our mythical effects from Potency to Ability Modifier. This new change (i.e. massive nerf) has not gone live yet and we are trying to keep this thread focused on this new change in hopes that it can be fixed before hitting the live servers. It is especially bad for furies since the mechanics of potency vs. ability modifier are far worse with regard to over-time abilities.

Kinvore

05-16-2010, 09:37 PM

[Removed for Content] what's with all the dev hate on healers lately? Are they trying to get them to quit?

Alenna

05-17-2010, 12:23 PM

<cite>Mindsway@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>[Removed for Content] what's with all the dev hate on healers lately? Are they trying to get them to quit?</blockquote>Sigh, I started powerleveling my fury to have a healer for my guild to raid with since they dont seem to know what to do with Rangers(my main) and now this? now I have to decide whether to level my Templar?

Banditman

05-17-2010, 12:25 PM

If the only reason you were leveling your Fury is for the Mythical buff, you are doing it for all the wrong reasons. Don't get me wrong, this is a nasty nerf, and for no reason. But if you stop leveling a Fury for this reason alone, you started doing it for the wrong reasons in the first place.

Meows

05-17-2010, 12:45 PM

the fury mythical is pretty worthless for the fury in the first place, we proc a reactive heal on the mob only if we are dpsing. Thats all that is left for us, the 10% wisdom to ability mod means our primary heals don't get affected by it. So if you want a class that has a currently useless mythical, then level a fury, otherwise pick something else

Alenna

05-17-2010, 12:53 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>If the only reason you were leveling your Fury is for the Mythical buff, you are doing it for all the wrong reasons. Don't get me wrong, this is a nasty nerf, and for no reason. But if you stop leveling a Fury for this reason alone, you started doing it for the wrong reasons in the first place.</blockquote>I mispoke in my last post. I was excited that I had a toon I loved to play as much as my Ranger main that would bring something to my guilds groups and raids so decided to go ahead and power level my good little ratonga fury so I'd have a toon I loved to play up at endgame level for grouping and the occasional raiding. I rerolled a templar because I love the challenge. I have not changed my mind about power leveling the fury I love so well. but not sure about which of my toons to power level as well my coercer, conji, or continue with the templar, my baby wizard I will not be fast leveling she is going to experience the norrath I didn't get a chance to while power levelling my Ranger to be able to play with the friends that got me into the game just before Rise of Kunark. I can and will solo but that is not my prefered play style, and it appears my favorite toons are good solo but not so good for the grouping style. I"m just a little disapointed that for some reason my favorite toons have been changed during the years to not fit my preferred play style. I'll work around it and who knows maybe next update or expansion they will finaly recieve some love and again be a better fit for my prefered play style which is grouping.

quetzaqotl

05-17-2010, 01:30 PM

Yeah the fury myth never has been one of the better myths to begin with, nowhere near the usefulness of for for instance the warden myth (even after the "nerf").Furies drain their power the fastest of all the healers, thats a different problem (somewhat overcomeable with the right gearwhich is not avaiable without crippling your stats/etc for all furies).The fury myth is a below average myth no nerf was needed, in fact we couldve used some buffage tbh.Especially after making it available to the nonraiders (imo a bad decission but thats all done and over with) making it more useful for furies in (small/full) groups (maybe solo even) as a solo healer.When they made the change to mythicals being available to all they shouldve looked at the buffs they give again.

Aule

05-17-2010, 01:31 PM

<cite>Alenna@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mindsway@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>[Removed for Content] what's with all the dev hate on healers lately? Are they trying to get them to quit?</blockquote>Sigh, I started powerleveling my fury to have a healer for my guild to raid with since they dont seem to know what to do with Rangers(my main) and now this? now I have to decide whether to level my Templar?</blockquote>Fury is still last place in desired healer class for raiding with.

Korrupt

05-17-2010, 01:39 PM

<cite>Aule@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Alenna@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mindsway@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>[Removed for Content] what's with all the dev hate on healers lately? Are they trying to get them to quit?</blockquote>Sigh, I started powerleveling my fury to have a healer for my guild to raid with since they dont seem to know what to do with Rangers(my main) and now this? now I have to decide whether to level my Templar?</blockquote>Fury is still last place in desired healer class for raiding with.</blockquote>I disagree, they have become an excellent dps group healer. Warden has dropped to the bottom of the list.

Banditman

05-17-2010, 02:35 PM

<cite>Korrupt@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>I disagree, they have become an excellent dps group healer.</blockquote>+1Furies are perfectly fine group healers now, but there was no need to nerf that Myth, or any of the other Myths that got nerfed.

Gungo

05-17-2010, 03:20 PM

<cite>Illiam@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Oakum wrote:</cite><blockquote>Join the crowd. With the nerf they did to the wardens power proc, in BG I can spam heal and run out of power only a hair slower in a prolonged brawl then any other healer class which was normal pre myth. . Sometimes I wonder if its even working. I dont see the reason for the fury/mystic nerfs either though.</blockquote>This went over like a thousand times its all over the wardens/illus boards. you actually GAIN power from the change. Since the power proc has been changed to a buff and crit bonus is uncapped and the power proc now scales with level and the power proc crits. You gain more from the power proc then you did when you were able to proc it 6x from a group heal. </blockquote>Your statement is only pheasable (and yet, still mostly false) if all of the following conditions are met:<ul><li>You are level 90</li><li>You have completed the quest and have your enervated weapon and buff</li><li>You have sufficient crit bonus</li></ul>For people who do not meet all of those conditions, meaning everyone who's between 80 and 90, and who has not done the quest, the warden epic is useless. The change to the warden epic did not result in a net gain; the change to the weapon itself resulted in a nearly 70% loss to its effectiveness. The fact that the proc is a buff now and not a weapon effect can result in a better performance, but doesn't always.Furthermore, you're incorrect in your assumption that the warden epic gives more power now than it did before. Let me explain. The bulk of our power regeneration came from group heals. The warden epic could previously proc off of every person in the group that was healed. That's a maximum value of about 3,000 power per group heal. Remember that figure. With the changes, even with the new buff, the proc won't be for more than 1k or so per heal. Let's stop right there a moment. Between both of my group heals, I used to be able to recoup nearly 6k power in two heals. Those same two heals, even with the new buff, grant 1/3 of that. How anyone could see that as a gain defies credulity. Yes, the proc on one heal has the potential to grant more power (1k on a crit vs ~500), but overall, the power return is still diminished. One need only reference the group heal totals that I've stated to see that.</blockquote>You can only start the original myth quest at 80.You can start the new enerated quest as soon as you achieve the fabled version.Power procs are based on HEAL crit bonus and heal crit so as a warden you already have a benefit from that delination.Furthermore buff scales with level the weapon DOES NOT. SO each proc the buff is already LARGER then the original proc. Furthermore the reason it regens more power in the buff version is that EACH individual Single target heal procs MORE per cast. So when comparing 2 group heals to 2 single target heals yes you do gain more power from the group heals but considering recast of group heals and recast of single target heals while using all your heals. You do in fact end up producing MORE power. This has been proven on the warden boards due to parses showing at plain face value that you are wrong.Furthermore as stated before the more heal crit bonus you obtain the more power you gain per cast. Also it use to only proc off crit heals. It now procs on every heal. But lets assume you were already a geared out warden with capped crit like most well geared wardens. You also must assume any warden with capped crit had gear with extra crit bonus which never helped the power proc.Now you are correct you do need the buff to offset the difference from before SF, But the fact is when you do obtain the buff you WILL have more power regen then BEFORE SF.

Anastasie

05-17-2010, 04:44 PM

ffs - please stop derailing this thread <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2e207fad049d4d292f60607f80f05768.gif" border="0" />

Fallower

05-17-2010, 09:45 PM

<cite>Meows@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>With the stealth change to they fury mythical we now are getting ability mod instead of 10% of our wisdom added onto potency. This is a big change to our HoTs, now we get 140 (assuming 1400 wisdom) more ability mod, and lose 140 per tick of our HoTs. This also affected DoTs, we would have gotten 140 more damage to each tick of our DoTs. We have 3 DoTs, one of which is from AA.This was an issue you had with the SK's reaver, and it ends up getting taken out of the fury. I don't know of any ability that gives us any percentage based heals, or nukes. Why did this get changed? If its an item problem are they not supposed to be unaffected by potency?As far as i can tell the fury gets one of the weakest mythical buffs for themselves out of all of them. Our proc works only when we are dpsing, our 10% wisdom doesn't mean much of anything now. The only "useful" thing is the buff to a healer to give heal mod.If you are going to nerf the fury's ability to dps and heal, at least change the 10% wisdom buff to something usefulto give you an idea of what kind of nerf you just gave us (based on 1400 wisdom):you took away 17.2% potency from our single target HoTyou took away 17% potency from our group HoTyou took away 27.4% potency from Death Swarmyou took away 26.7% potency from Tempestyou took away 2.9% potency from Thunderboltyou took away 3.3% potency from Starnovaas well as any of our group heals, will get only 3.3% of our wisdom added onto them because of ability mod only being 1/3 effective for AoE stuff. Basically this is a HUGE downgrade for the fury class for this to go live.For any other class that has similar mythicals let me know if its all of them, because i play a wizard for fun, not to raid with and don't test mechanics for them</blockquote>Alright you can hate me for this but I feel I need to say something about this. With the upcoming GU they are going to remove the potency cap. I see that you are a raider so I don't think the 1400 wisdom you gave is an accurate discription. You will probably be higher than that lets say somewhere in the 1700 range while in raid. So you want a free 17% potency. There is potency all over the place. Practically on every piece of raid gear and jewelry even the instance stuff has it everywhere.You should be able to make this up in other place. If it is only 14% then you are looking at t2 shoulder I know the scout ones get an additional proc on them for either the group or the scout that would take it up to 21% or 19%. For me ability mod is a hard thing to find and I would love to have more of it. We don't even know what the next armor set looks like but it if continues with how things are now you will have made this up in no time.What I think they are doing is making it a little harder for free potency. With how easy they make it to get your base stat and how much of it they are putting on each item I would have to agree with what they are doing. I know that you love your class and when something changes that you are used to it takes some time to get used to but I am fairly confident that you can find this potency other places.Like I said you can hate me but this is my point of view on it.

Meows

05-17-2010, 11:12 PM

the healer sholders proc a ward, doesn't proc potency. And for a Heal over Time, potency is actually useful as where ability mod is not, ability mod is the first tick, not every subsequent tick. i have to run around 1400 wisdom because i have to use power proc items to make up for the CURRENT lack of the fury class.I like many furies have as much potency as i can get. Unless the new priest weapons give 20% potency, this is just a flat nerf, no way to compensate for this loss, not with current gear.As for ability mod being hard to get, i agree, its a bit annoying, i have a little over 1000, which isn't too hard to get if you choose gear oriented towards that. I know of some that have almost 2000, but they sacrifice crit bonus and potency for it.

Anastasie

05-18-2010, 02:20 PM

Meows,If you are able to, perhaps it might be beneficial to change the title to include Templars and Mystics. This might draw more attention to this thread and get them involved as well. We only have a week before this goes live and I sincerely hope this is addressed prior to the 25th.

Meows

05-18-2010, 05:39 PM

changed, good idea

Maikeruu

05-18-2010, 08:44 PM

Ouch, sorry about that guys. I figured there'd be some kind of bad fallout one way or the other from that Reaver bug though I didn't expect it to be like this. I hope they find a way to fix this before it goes live.

Blambil

05-18-2010, 09:01 PM

Meows

05-18-2010, 09:57 PM

from the sounds of this from Aditu on eq2flames, the templar mythical is unaffected by this nerf. So just mystic and furies are affected

Cyra

05-19-2010, 03:50 AM

Sad for Furies. SF was few steps forward with welcome changes that made the class more useful and definately more competative with healing and curing. Power is definately still an unfortunate issue for class that is mostly spell based. So getting the most punch for the mana buck is important here.Was there any reason that I missed that Developers gave for having to make this change or was this another missed portion of code, or coding that wasn't intended, that has to be corrected now that folks have brought furies out of mothballs to play again?

Meows

05-19-2010, 08:23 AM

I'm hoping it was an unintended change to fix the reaver bug where SKs were able to heal for 100% hp every hit. Because percentage based stuff acts very funky with potency. But there is no official word on this change, nor if it is a bug, this is just one of those things that they have put in without saying boo to the community.Heres to hoping its a bug, and i've done enough to get the attention of the devs to fix it so it won't go live.

Meows

05-19-2010, 08:46 AM

At current, i think i have submitted at least 30 separate bug reports on this thing.... Don't know how many more i'll be able to do seeing as i hear this is going live in about a week or less

Raiwon

05-19-2010, 09:08 AM

After the fury fail expansion that was tso,I also was happy with all the great changes for our class in SF ,until i heard about this aweful nerf .If this goes live i dont think it will still be worth to play a fury even...So I realy hope devs see this thread and change the fury myth back to normal,but if this goes live in a couple days and we still havent gotten a update on this issue yet ,im not keeping my hopes up...

Banditman

05-19-2010, 12:34 PM

This is a <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=478429" target="_blank">link to the Mystic discussion</a> of the nerf. I'm sure they'd like their voices added to the discussion.

Detor

05-19-2010, 01:16 PM

Perhaps none of the current devs know how ability mod affects fury heals (and why ability mod is considered so inferior to the way the mythical was before). If you can't get them to leave the mythical as is perhaps you can convince them to change how ability mod works so it's on par with the way the mythical worked before?

Xill

05-19-2010, 01:52 PM

<cite>Detor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Perhaps none of the current devs know how ability mod affects fury heals (and why ability mod is considered so inferior to the way the mythical was before). If you can't get them to leave the mythical as is perhaps you can convince them to change how ability mod works so it's on par with the way the mythical worked before?</blockquote>Thats all we are asking for. A reverse to the nerf or compensation to make up for the fact that when this goes live alot of us are going to see reduced effectiveness right from the beginning. But the way it was introduced (ninja nerf) and the complete silence coming from the other end is disheartening... but is on par with the usual. And when it goes live (which I am sure it will) after a week or so of threads complaining we will get a "We have no intention of changing this mechanic" or something along those lines with maybe a few less words. And that will be the end of it. As usual.

Griffinhart

05-19-2010, 02:02 PM

Ok, I am genuinely confused about this thread. Can you please be specific about what exactly the nerf is? You are using terms like potency, but I think you are using them in the wrong context vs the game term of potency.Potency is nothing more than a percent bonus added to the base amount done by spells and combat arts. That is, an item with 10% potency adds 10% to the base amounts of that ability. Are you saying that the fury mythical added 10% of my furies wisdom to my potency? If that’s the claim it’s absolutely incorrect. That would put furies past the potency cap with a single item. 1000 wisdom would a 100% potency bonus. That just doesn’t make sense.Now, I took a look at my Fury on live. He’s level 90 with his mythical conversion done. The text of the mythical buff reads:Improves the fury's heals by 10% of their wisdom. Improves the damage of hostile spells by 10% of their intelligence.That means it takes the value of 10% of your wisdom and adds it to the amount healed/nuked. I confirmed this on live. It works exactly that way. All of my furies heals and nukes had a little over 100 points more displayed on my heals and nukes with the myth buff on than it did when it was off. The difference was exactly 10% of my wisdom. On my test copied character, the buff behaved exactly the same way.What am I missing? Can you give a specific example of a spell that is behaving differently on test vs live with the same wisdom, ability mod, spell quality, potency etc?

Gungo

05-19-2010, 02:02 PM

<cite>Xill wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Detor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Perhaps none of the current devs know how ability mod affects fury heals (and why ability mod is considered so inferior to the way the mythical was before). If you can't get them to leave the mythical as is perhaps you can convince them to change how ability mod works so it's on par with the way the mythical worked before?</blockquote>Thats all we are asking for. A reverse to the nerf or compensation to make up for the fact that when this goes live alot of us are going to see reduced effectiveness right from the beginning. But the way it was introduced (ninja nerf) and the complete silence coming from the other end is disheartening... but is on par with the usual. And when it goes live (which I am sure it will) after a week or so of threads complaining we will get a "We have no intention of changing this mechanic" or something along those lines with maybe a few less words. And that will be the end of it. As usual.</blockquote>More then likely you havent heard from the devs because they have no idea [Removed for Content] happened. It was likely a bug caused by another change. So they have to find out if there is a problem, look for what caused it, fix it and then push out a hot fix because the final build for the next GU will likely already been compiled.

Banditman

05-19-2010, 02:27 PM

Aule

05-19-2010, 02:32 PM

<cite>Griffinhart wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok, I am genuinely confused about this thread. Can you please be specific about what exactly the nerf is? You are using terms like potency, but I think you are using them in the wrong context vs the game term of potency.Potency is nothing more than a percent bonus added to the base amount done by spells and combat arts. That is, an item with 10% potency adds 10% to the base amounts of that ability. Are you saying that the fury mythical added 10% of my furies wisdom to my potency? If that’s the claim it’s absolutely incorrect. That would put furies past the potency cap with a single item. 1000 wisdom would a 100% potency bonus. That just doesn’t make sense.Now, I took a look at my Fury on live. He’s level 90 with his mythical conversion done. The text of the mythical buff reads:Improves the fury's heals by 10% of their wisdom. Improves the damage of hostile spells by 10% of their intelligence.That means it takes the value of 10% of your wisdom and adds it to the amount healed/nuked. I confirmed this on live. It works exactly that way. All of my furies heals and nukes had a little over 100 points more displayed on my heals and nukes with the myth buff on than it did when it was off. The difference was exactly 10% of my wisdom. On my test copied character, the buff behaved exactly the same way.What am I missing? Can you give a specific example of a spell that is behaving differently on test vs live with the same wisdom, ability mod, spell quality, potency etc?</blockquote>What you're missing is clear understanding of what the Fury myth bonus actually does. Try looking at your heal and damage over time spells with and without your myth bonus applied. Hint: look at the tick amounts.

Griffinhart

05-19-2010, 03:57 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>On Live, right now, the Fury (and Templar, and Mystic) Mythical works like this (Assumes 100% crit):{([Base Amount x [1 + Potency] + Myth Amount]) + Ability Mod} x (1.3 + Crit Bonus)On Test, right now it works like this (100% Crit):{(Base Amount x [1 + Potency]) + (Ability Mod + Myth Amount)} x (1.3 + Crit Bonus)I'm not going to try to explain the limits/caps on Ability Mod, but basically the Myth bonus has been moved out of the Potency part of the equation, and into the Ability Mod part of the equation where it is *FAR* less effective.</blockquote>There is no need to explain the limits and caps. but as I thought, the correct terms as far as SOE has explained them in past are not being used. What you are saying is that on live, the bonus is applied to the base amount (not potency amount) and on test it is being lumped in with the ability mod. I make the distiction for clarification. While the bonus makes the spell more potent, Potency is a specific game term to describe a mechanic that this is not. This causes part of the confusion, at least on my part which is why I am asking for clarification. To several friends of mine, when reading the potency claim, they were like me and said, the fury effect never added to potency.I'll take a look when I get home on test and check again. I didn't specifically look at what the ticks when checking things out, but I will. I'm not trying to dispute, downplay or criticize here. I'm just looking for clarification so everyone is on the same page. This thread has caused a lot of confusion among folks I know.I think another point of confusion for me is the original post specifically mentioned Thunderbolt and Starnova as doing less. At 1100 ability mod on my Fury I saw no change to the spells damage amounts as I'm nowhere near the 50% cap for ability mod.This said, If the effect is now simply an ability modifier instead of being added to base amount, It's an unwarranted nerf. Many mythicals add a flat 10% spell/CA base damage amount while a fury with 1500 wisdom would only see the 150 hp extra and on a 3K heal/nuke is half as effective as a 10% base amount bonus like the bard and wizard epics.

Banditman

05-19-2010, 04:09 PM

You're still struggling with the same thing I had to struggle with. You've got to come to terms with the fact that the "current" implimentation of these Mythicals is Potency. That's how it's applied. Let me show you the difference.Lets say for the following examples my Mythical Amount is 400, Potency is 50%, Ability Mod is 900. These are the pieces that matter, I'm not concerned with Crit and Crit Bonus, though as you delve deeper you'll see that those too do matter, but since they act on numbers generated without their inclusion, they can be ignored for demonstration purposes.Spell amount: 400Live: ((400 x 1.5)+400) = 1000 . . . apply Ability Mod . . . 1500.Test: (400 x 1.5) = 600 . . . apply Ability Mod . . . 900.Now do you see the Nerf?

snowli

05-19-2010, 04:25 PM

I took off a couple of potency items (like neck & shoulders) so I wouldn't run into the problem of the potency ceiling on live not being in effect on test slanting results and then compared the exact same gear setups between test and live (both while in my house which is not a pvp zone - if that even matters).My groupward buff runic armour drops from 544 currently to 413 on testTorpor the quick regenerating single target drops from 3602 on live to 2679 on test (it has a lot of quick ticks so that adds up to a ton of healing)Oberon drops from 8864 per tick on live to 7306 per tick on test. again, huge loss across lots of ticks.Ancestral from 4880 live to 4384 on testUmbral from 6654 on live to 6425 on testThe basic upshot is, when the new way of working things out comes to live, the increase in potency cap might see your healing change in a variety of ways, (afterall everyone has different setups ability mobs potency spell quality etc) it's possible you may not see that the big nerf has robbed you of a very large part of the increase that other healers are receiving.Either fury and mystic deserved a massive nerf because we were way above other healers and the devs need to say so, or they need to remove a selective nerf to just us (if templars really are unaffected as someone has mentioned).It's worth noting it's sort of a double nerf in some situations, by changing the wisdom potency bonus into ability mod, it means the excellant fury buff that I get in raids could soon be in many cases redundant, I will no longer have the potency for many spells to take advantage of it, and my ability mod despite being higher will actually already be capped far lower for most spells. So it nerfs both furies giving out myth buff and in my case a mystic receiving it.If you want to check the changes for your healer with your gear, do make sure your potency in live is set low enough that it doesn't cap out then mirror that gear/aa/stance selection to test - that way you see the change in mythical effect, and not 1 set of live heal figures that are held down by the potency cap and the test set that can go above the potency cap.

Griffinhart

05-19-2010, 05:39 PM

ok, I just took a second look on test vs live. I see what's going on now. It's not that the damage is being added to the ability modifier. I double and tripple checked that. What has changed is how it's being applied to different spell types.Currently on live:It's adds (assuming 1000 wis) 100 HP more to Direct Damage and heals. This is unchanged on test.For HoT's and DoT's on live that 100 HP gets added to the initial hit and each Tick. On Test it only applies to the initial tick.For Damage Shields on Live, the effect adds extra damage to thorns and porcupine, on test it does not.So, there are two decreases there. A definite nerf.Now that said, it's not merely adding the amount to the ability modifier. With over 1000 ability mod both Tempest and regrowth are past the cap, yet the buff allows me to go past that 50% cap on both live and test. The initial hit on both get the full bonus. The rules of what spells and what portion of the spells have changed. And I agree, this change shouldn't happen. Furies really needed that extra loving in the heal department.

Meows

05-20-2010, 03:02 AM

actually.... i just played around with Death Swarm VI master, put on enough ability mod to be very close to the cap on it, and toggled my mythical buff... the low end didn't change at all, but the high end went up by 137, and i have 1371 wisdom.I also am looking at Nature's Salve IX apprentice... the spread before mythical buff is 1475-1803, and after 1475-1803... the buff has the same rules as ability mod, caps at 50% the base.This isn't just a little nerf that we can shrug off with some new gear, unless there is new gear coming in that gives 20-30% potency for healers.... (which i highly doubt)

Iskandar

05-20-2010, 03:39 AM

I'm seeing some confusing numbers comparing my Fury on Live vs Test... could the PvP flagging on Test-Copy be altering the raw numbers somehow as well? With the myth effect, I would expect to see 125 added to my spells (10% of 1249 wis) and that's what I see on Live... my ability mod may be capping some out tho, which could be why I see such different bonuses applied on Test, if the myth is changing to an ability mod effect... honestly, all the mechanics talk is going whooosh right by me! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" /> Well, for what it's worth, here's the numbers I'm seeing. On both Test and Live, my Fury has 1249 wisdom, 110.2 crit, 38.9 crit bonus, 30.9 potency, 1,251 ability mod, both compared while in Treant form with Nature's Ferocity (heal stance) and wearing my normal adventuring gear:(Edited to add a clarification: the mythical is Enervated, so it remains in place. Comparisons of 'with' and 'without' are done by removing the Nature's Wrath buff, which provides the "10% of their wisdom" effect. Wisdom, Ability Mod, and all other stats are constant both with and without Nature's Wrath being active. Sorry, should have noted this originally, but I'm so used to the Enervated I totally forgot! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" />)Death Swarm (Expert): with mythical (without) -- (difference)Live -- 1870-1968 + 569-667/tick (1553-1843 + 444-542/tick) -- (317-125 + 125-125/tick)Test -- 1573-1922 + 449-549/tick (1573-1850 + 449-549/tick) -- (0-72 + 0-0/tick)Thunderbolt (Expert): with mythical (without) -- (difference)Live -- 5086-7526 (4961-7401) -- (125-125)Test -- 5238-7779 (5113-7654) -- (125-125)Wrath of Nature (AA): with mythical (without) -- (difference)Live -- 2432-3369 + 687-968/tick (2307-3244 + 562-843/tick) -- (125-125 + 125-125/tick)Test -- 2455-3445 + 594-891/tick (2414-3404 + 594-891/tick) -- (41-41 + 0-0/tick)Salve (Master): with mythical (without) -- (difference)Live -- 3171-3807 (2984-3647) -- (187-160)Test -- 3003-3671 (3003-3671) -- (0-0 -- yes, no difference whatsoever with/without the myth)Nature's Elixir (Grandmaster): with mythical (without) -- (difference)Live -- 4870-5646 (4745-5521) -- (125-125)Test -- 4937-5728 (4812-5603) -- (125-125)Regrowth (Expert): with mythical (without) -- (difference)Live -- 2415-2674 + 1073-1284/tick (2374-2623 + 948-1159/tick) -- (41-51 + 125-125/tick)Test -- 2553-2815 + 994-1215/tick (2428-2690 + 994-1215/tick) -- (125-125 + 0-0/tick)Untamed Regeneration (Expert): with mythical (without) -- (difference)Live -- 3129-3704 (3004-3579) -- (125-125)Test -- 3197-3808 (3158-3767) -- (39-41 -- myth is fairly negligible)Note: wearing the 15% red adornment for Untamed Regen, which may be why the myth has such a reduced effect on TestAutumn's Kiss (Master): with mythical (without) -- (difference)Live -- 1763-2062 + 1346-1645/tick (1763-2062 + 1332-1627/tick) -- (0-0 + 14-18/tick)Test -- 1933-2261 + 1403-1715/tick (1891-2219 + 1403-1715/tick) -- (42-42 + 0-0/tick)Note: wearing the 30% red adornment for Autumn's Kiss, which may be why the myth seems to have so little effect on Live or Test

Hene

05-20-2010, 09:45 AM

<cite>Griffinhart wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now that said, it's not merely adding the amount to the ability modifier. With over 1000 ability mod both Tempest and regrowth are past the cap, yet the buff allows me to go past that 50% cap on both live and test. The initial hit on both get the full bonus. The rules of what spells and what portion of the spells have changed. And I agree, this change shouldn't happen. Furies really needed that extra loving in the heal department.</blockquote>1000 ability mod is not enough to cap regrowth, so your 'test' proved nothing. And potency affects all ticks, while ability mod affects only the first tick, which is exactly in line with what you say happens; look at Iskandar's numbers and you can see roughly what is going on, but I think Iskandar left out the fact that the mythical adds some ability mod and wisdom, so that will affect the numbers moreso when myth is not equipped. Aside from those little details, you can see that the myth effect has, in fact, been changed from 'potency mod' (i.e. a modifier that affects potency, nothing more, nothing less) to ability mod.

Iskandar

05-20-2010, 10:32 AM

<cite>Hene wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think Iskandar left out the fact that the mythical adds some ability mod and wisdom,</blockquote>The mythical itself is still equipped, I simply clicked off the Nature's Wrath buff -- it's the enervated mythical <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> So the wisdom and ability mod on the weapon itself remained constant with or without the Nature's Wrath effect.I updated my post to make note of that -- sorry, should have thought to include that originally, I had a lotta typin up there and I kinda totally forgot <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" />

Griffinhart

05-20-2010, 11:30 AM

Since my test toon is 86, I haven't done a new test copy since I hit 90 with him, I was just taking a look at the difference between myth buff on (I have the enervated version)and off. The difference was consistant with live. Regrowth was over cap for this toon as I was comparing the t8 expert version of it. And Tempest most certainly is hitting cap.There seem to be a few seperate problems here and Iskandars numbers show it.1. The myth buff is no longer affecting ticks of HOTs and DOTs (Very bad)2. Individual spells seem to behave differently with the buff. Regrowth and Tempest for me allowing past the Ability mod cap, yet Salve getting zero benefit for Iskandar even though it is below the Ability mod cap. Several of his spells seem to have diminished numbers, though some of them shouldn't be (2400hp regrowth at the bottom end is past the cap for his ability mod, barely, but it's past)3. Unrelated to the myth buff, spells on the exact same character giving different results with or without the myth buff coming into play. As iskandar saw, not a single spell he listed is consistant with or without the mythical buff on test vs live. There is something fundimentally screwy here and it's muddying the issue with the myth buff change.I'm very curious to find out what's going on here. Why are the basic numbers without the myth buff so different? Why are some spells that should be behaving as if they are capped while others are not? Why the change in the first place?

Meows

05-20-2010, 03:01 PM

still waiting on some kind of definitive dev feedback.

ATTHWSM

05-20-2010, 03:48 PM

Im not even gonna bother figuring out the math and hidden BS behind it all, what I am worried about, is that this is a HUGE nerf to Mystics. (Possibly fury whatever, but I dont play them so I dont know) Mystics already have far less healing ability than Defilers, we have few aa's or red adorns that affect ward size and what not, and for you to screw over our mythical which is the ONE THING keeping us semi par with them, thats just dumb. Honestly I ask you, DEVS, who complained about this? WHO was crying out for this nerf to 2 of the most underplayed healers in the game? I dont understand why you would implement a nerf to 2 classes who most agree are already gimped. With all the bugs, LEGITIMATE balance issues where you have hundreds of people crying out for change, I find it hard to guess why you would change something that was not broke, or in need of change, by anyones standards. Also, AWESOME job on nerfing Sages, lets make the game even easier so everyone can kill it. Good work.

Iskandar

05-20-2010, 04:07 PM

<cite>Griffinhart wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm very curious to find out what's going on here. Why are the basic numbers without the myth buff so different? Why are some spells that should be behaving as if they are capped while others are not? Why the change in the first place?</blockquote>The changing numbers without the myth effect is what's confusing me as well... I would have thought that they would be the same from Test to Live, with differences only appearing once the Nature's Wrath effect is activated. Instead it appears that not only has the Nature's Wrath effect been changed, but so have a number of the spells as well... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" />

Ashlian

05-21-2010, 12:14 AM

Seriously.....20 dev responses in less than a day to the idiotic addition of mounts to Station Cash that are unavailable to the general server population but no dev response to a major issue with three healer classes? I mean, after the 60 pages of nearly unanswered posts regarding the islands, I figured that was simply settled from the outset and nothing we said would have any effect, but this......this is a mechanics change and player input SHOULD BE CONSIDERED.I already have reduced my fury to mainly mentoring, soloing and crafting. To nerf her further? Is there anyone reading these posts at all who can bother to respond to the rather detailed mathematical analyses given? Because if this change goes live as described, a) all your rhetoric about fixing furies will be considered so much hot air, and b) mystics and templars, two classes we already have to hunt the woodwork for for our raids and groups will be played even less than they are now.Please respond. Since you all have the time to respond about Station Cash mounts.

ATTHWSM

05-21-2010, 01:09 AM

Well said

Hene

05-21-2010, 09:44 AM

<cite>Iskandar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Hene wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think Iskandar left out the fact that the mythical adds some ability mod and wisdom,</blockquote>The mythical itself is still equipped, I simply clicked off the Nature's Wrath buff -- it's the enervated mythical <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> So the wisdom and ability mod on the weapon itself remained constant with or without the Nature's Wrath effect.I updated my post to make note of that -- sorry, should have thought to include that originally, I had a lotta typin up there and I kinda totally forgot <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Hmmm, then I don't know where the difference in expected versus actual values is coming from....maybe anomalies in Ability mod cap, since it is a non-trivial forumla?But here is a calculation to show pretty much what is going on for all of you who don't already know the math behind it, and maybe I'm just not fully awake, but there seems to be a discrepancy between actual and exptected heal values here...<cite>Iskandar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ability mod 1,251...Salve (Master): with mythical (without) -- (difference)Live -- 3171-3807 (2984-3647) -- (187-160)Test -- 3003-3671 (3003-3671) -- (0-0 -- yes, no difference whatsoever with/without the myth)Nature's Elixir (Grandmaster): with mythical (without) -- (difference)Live -- 4870-5646 (4745-5521) -- (125-125)Test -- 4937-5728 (4812-5603) -- (125-125)</blockquote>Since it is apparent that Salve is capped on ability mod (1251 > 3647/3) we know thatSalve (master) base after potency from gear/stance etc, but before myth ~= 3647/1.5 = 2431, with ability mod cap of 1216With Myth adding 125 potency mod makes it 2431+125 = 2556, with ability mod cap of 1278 (greater than 1251), this would mean the spell should heal for 2556+1278 = 3834 (a bit off of what is expected)With Myth adding 125 ability mod makes it 2431 base still, with ability mod cap of 1216 again. The total ability mod is 1251+125 which is greater than 1216, so the heal spell should be unchanged.Both of these roughly match up to what actually happens on test versus live; however, there is a slight discrepancy in calculation for the mythical effect on live...I know that for mystics, at least Runic Armor (our ward-buff spell), an incorrect value is shown upon examine when you have potency (maybe just from the mythical buff), as it artificially caps ability mod only for the examine window , so when the spell is cast it ends up warding for more than is shown in the window. This may be a similar effect of the examine window being inaccurate, but none-the-less, the values prove my point.For Nature's elixir, the ability mod is not capped, so adding 125 to the base or ability mod will have the same effect. (Adding it to potency increases the cap on ability mod but this does not matter since the ability mod cap is already higher than 1251)

Alenna

05-21-2010, 10:21 AM

Not being a mathmatician(and I want to thank all of you who are doing the math btw) from what you are saying and what I see in the numbers is that with the way they are handling the what the + gets added to the fury(and other healer's) mythic buff on test is that there are at a net loss on the heals right or is that power gain from heals? I am hoping to get my little fury in position to get her epic when she reaches 80 and want to know if it is worth trying to get the mythic before or what till she is 90 and then get the buff while looking for other equipment to help with power regen.

Gisallo

05-21-2010, 12:50 PM

I think the nerf is ridiculous but I also think I understand the reasoning behind it. This same reasoning is also why they do not post responses with it. They know it will anger the higher end players.Long story short, this will have (I think) a bigger effect on the higher end than the lower end players. Lower end players can still get a decent amount of Potency gear (there are easy to get legendary pieces with 10%+) and get the AA for things like the Runic Armor buff which will now not stop because of the cap. If you are one of these lower end cats you may not be maxed out on mod for your wards and stuff, so you still get a result. Higher end players though that are at or near the caps will see a nerf however. They were looking for a quick fix to preempt the QQ from raiding defilers about how the potency cap being eliminated combined with potency on a myth based on a stat made the mystic or whatever OP. This is a quick easy brain dead fix that will ultimately only really be felt by those at the high end that are at the caps. The casuals will see their base wards are still bigger and likely not notice that are as much "bigger" than they were before and they will still see some growth as they get more gear so they will be happy. Thing is though all they could trumpet at fan faire was the vast difference between high end players and the majority (by their numbers) that are casual. They spoke of how they were going to make changes to narrow this gap. Things is also though that if they actually put in print "we did this change with the thought to keeping things balanced at the low and middle end in a simple manner, to let them still feel like their characters were improving as they grew, and well you are only 15% of our market so we could give 2 hoots about u" they lose these higher end players. You know their free QC on test and beta, the peeps that actually find the bugs in the mechanics so they can fix them. The peeps that get 2-3 even 4 accounts a pop. The peeps that provide a disproportional amount of service to the game as compared to their numbers. They are trying to have their cake and eat it too because to do something that actually takes both into account would require them to divert from adding things to SC and doing coding for BG.

ATTHWSM

05-22-2010, 08:01 AM

Bro are you serious? How can you see WHY this was needed, and then agree with it? Lets break it down in laymans terms what you just said:"OH hey you players that dont play as often, dont pay as much, arent as skilled, and dont care about end game content, were gonna DO OUR BEST to make sure you have the same abilities as those players that DO play a lot, DO pay for more, are HIGHLY talented, and focus their entire gaming expierience on the end game. Cuz WERE SOE, and we do stuff like that "See how stupid that sounds? Now for IRL terms if your all still confused as to what is happening here:"Oh hey lower class, jobless, non educated, criminal past person, WE ARE GONNA MAKE SURE that you have the same rights and ability to buy this brand new FERARRI that all the Upper class, Employed, Highly Educated, upstanding citizens can buy, cuz were SO AND SO, and WE DO STUFF LIKE THAT! "Still sounds stupid right? Ok Awesome.Changing something to balance a gap between end game and no game players makes no sense, because the two dont coexist. They dont group together, they dont PvP each other, and their not in competition for contested or 1st Clears, so WHY OH GOD does it matter that one is nerfed so one is equal? The TINY jump in t1 Raid Gear vs Heroic Instance crap is already too small, lets not dumb this game down any more.

ATTHWSM

05-22-2010, 08:05 AM

And another thing, you know what? NOONE is going to complain, IN ANY WAY, about the Mystics myth clicky remaining as is when potency is uncapped. NO ONE. Know why? Cuz casual players dont give a CRAP how big their heals are and dont understand the mechanics behind it anyways, and hardcore players arent going to just go start rolling mystics cuz their wards could POSSIBLY be SLIGHTLY larger than a defilers, OMG OMG. SOE, seriously, WHY OH GOD are you fixing something that IS NOT broken, by any of your playerbase standards? Stop this, its a horrible way to bring in a new team and try to appeal to people that have been here for years and are on their final fling. Know what happens after 6 months into an xpac, when your Devs start doing stupid things that nobody asked to be done? People leave, for 6 months, until a new xpac comes out. WIN.

Gisallo

05-22-2010, 01:42 PM

<cite>ATTHWSM wrote:</cite><blockquote>And another thing, you know what? NOONE is going to complain, IN ANY WAY, about the Mystics myth clicky remaining as is when potency is uncapped. NO ONE. Know why? Cuz casual players dont give a CRAP how big their heals are and dont understand the mechanics behind it anyways, and hardcore players arent going to just go start rolling mystics cuz their wards could POSSIBLY be SLIGHTLY larger than a defilers, OMG OMG. SOE, seriously, WHY OH GOD are you fixing something that IS NOT broken, by any of your playerbase standards? Stop this, its a horrible way to bring in a new team and try to appeal to people that have been here for years and are on their final fling. Know what happens after 6 months into an xpac, when your Devs start doing stupid things that nobody asked to be done? People leave, for 6 months, until a new xpac comes out. WIN.</blockquote>I do not agree with it even a little bit believe me. All I was doing was explaining why they are doing it, and I think they why is screwed up. To simply focus on any single demographic in order to get an easier fix to an issue is just wrong.They could have cut the Potency of the myth click in half and still had a similar effect without as big an impact. My guess is they just looked at the 2 biggest heals mystics and furies had, saw that many still have room before the mod cap and said "okay this is easy", completely forgeting that we have other buttons that also keep people alive.

Zeltaria

05-22-2010, 01:47 PM

*sigh* one more reason I am becoming very disappointed in playing a healer class. The only reason I'm still playing it as a main is because I love the Mystic class so much, but this is getting ridiculous.Please dont ninja "fix" our mythicals... it's not broken!!

Frametree

05-22-2010, 03:41 PM

I guess that from the fact that we have not had a dev weigh in we can infer that this is indeed going live and is indeed intended. I would love to be wrong, but as the days go by, it's harder and harder to resist this inference. I mean, come on Sony, talk to us. It really really looks like you don't get this. Or you're just evil. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

quetzaqotl

05-23-2010, 10:16 AM

Im sure if we wouldve bought our mythicals from the marketplace for stationcash tm instead of slaying digital dragons and an ugly buttworm we wouldve had red names flooding in. Heh it wouldnt take much time for a dev to respond...

Gisallo

05-23-2010, 12:11 PM

Nah I think its because the itemizationb squad is too busy making sure all the new BG gear is gtg. I mean thats why we all started playing EQ2 right, for BG?

Meows

05-23-2010, 12:15 PM

yeah, so i'm thinking this is going live at this point.... Now its a matter of the mythical doesn't do what it says. Should be increasing the Fury heals and nukes by 10% of their wisdom... well an AoE spell does not get that, nor does anything capped at the ability mod. Same problem with a mystic. This needs to be changed so it still effects AoE spells the same, as well as all the wards. The mythical needs to be able to go over the ability mod cap if the change is going to remain.

snowli

05-23-2010, 12:25 PM

It's a stupid change for all healer players, irrespective of how much time they invest into a single character, because it gives different healer classes entirely different potential. Effectively it's putting let's say a defiler and a mystic, or a warden and a fury on different progression paths.The Defiler's mythical effect will remain linear, the more they upgrade their character the mythical provides equal gains, the mystics mythical effect for healing progression is on a decreasing curve where eventually the mythical effect becomes redundant and of no benefit to any spell he has (as if the 15% double attack proc wasn't already a close to worthless effect with this expac).Putting +wisdom or +ability modifier adornments onto a mystic or fury will become increasingly redundant the better geared he is, until eventually there are no worthwhile white adornments for their primary roles in many slots.Why won't any dev respond to this change to even confirm they realise they've created such a change?

Meows

05-23-2010, 12:49 PM

its true, with the change, the fury is inferior to the warden yet again in every form. Before this it was we had slightly bigger heals, they had the ability to not need a personal chanter. Now, the warden is winning the heal, as well as the dps battle. I feel like the fury is yet again trying to be phased into a cure-bot role, or out all together...

snowli

05-23-2010, 01:50 PM

<cite>Alenna@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>Not being a mathmatician(and I want to thank all of you who are doing the math btw) from what you are saying and what I see in the numbers is that with the way they are handling the what the + gets added to the fury(and other healer's) mythic buff on test is that there are at a net loss on the heals right or is that power gain from heals? I am hoping to get my little fury in position to get her epic when she reaches 80 and want to know if it is worth trying to get the mythic before or what till she is 90 and then get the buff while looking for other equipment to help with power regen.</blockquote>I can't comment for anyone else's character but to boil my situation down, I devote all my effort into my mystic, spend all my dkp, do heroics for a chance at minor upgrades and farm to get mutables to make the best adorns for gear. So I heal quite a bit better than the alt defiler who is not cared for at all really. After this test crap dribbles onto live I will heal quite a lot worse than the alt defiler, despite the disparity in effort in building our characters. It could amount to a 30% nerf to my warding relative to the defiler for most of my wards. After next GU, from a practical viewpoint, should he get the fury buff, the MT group spot etc?For your fury, it's hard to predict without complex calculations of how much ability mod adorns and gear you have, how close to ability or potency cap you are and so on, and those "facts" change for each of your spells. But 1 thing you do know, your potential relative to other healers changed substantially, even if other factors let your healing rise a bit. Other healers might get pure benefits this GU, you get the benefit they do (removal of potency cap) but you get a special fury nerf that a warden for example doesn't, your mythical benefit has changed to a benefit that will be increasingly capped and pointless the more you advance your character.

Odys

05-23-2010, 02:28 PM

I don't get it, my warden solo heal instances better than my mystic, she does not run oom at all, i mostly play my mystic in raids ... and only because raid leaders always prefer the mystic (cause warden are many and mystics a few). She does not need a nerf.

Odys

05-23-2010, 02:30 PM

<cite>Surculus@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Oakum wrote:</cite><blockquote>Join the crowd. With the nerf they did to the wardens power proc, in BG I can spam heal and run out of power only a hair slower in a prolonged brawl then any other healer class which was normal pre myth. . Sometimes I wonder if its even working. I dont see the reason for the fury/mystic nerfs either though.</blockquote>Never had a problem with power on my Warden in BG's and he only has his Epic. The Myth buff from the conversion will actually let the power regen crit, can't wait for then when I get around to getting him 85+.</blockquote>My warden mana still get up if i only heal, i only get drained if i use hierophantic genesis. This is with moderate gear.

ROCKHEART

05-23-2010, 02:36 PM

Since the developers have decided not to respond to our inqueries and concerns thru this forum and their lack of vision. We should have a few choice words for them at the next fanfair or soe event that the devs are present. Igoniring our concerns over moronic changes that affect so manny healers is ediotic. People have a hard time finding a healer as it is, it is a demanding class to be played correctly, this changes will not endear anyone to try and make a new one. Neither of these classes was or is op in any way, but then again it does nto seem as if any dev actulay playes one. The op classes are used by the devs and will stay that way. As for the BG gear it is all bs it shoulod have bene madfe to only work in BG and not affect PVE (But thats a whole other issue)

snowli

05-23-2010, 03:09 PM

I think a reason people might not clearly see the mythical formula change, is because to actually compare live to test right now: they need to take off a bunch of potency gear and stick themself in dps not heal stance on both live and test. This way you can avoid seeing heal or ward figures that are capped on live for potency, versus figures uncapped for potency on test and getting falsely slanted figures, 1 set that is against a ceiling and 1 set that isn't.The new myth formula is very inferior to the old one, if you compare what it adds on test versus what it adds on live (by turning off and on the buff for e.g.) without having your results messed up by the potency ceiling being in effect on only 1 side of the test.

Iskandar

05-23-2010, 05:27 PM

Snowline's post gave me an idea... so, being a glutton for mathematical punishment, here is my Fury Live vs Test with no gear or buffs at all (other than the Diety Pet, because I forgot to swap it off on Live and didn't feel like redoing all that <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" />). The only things affecting any skills will be AA's, but without any gear or buffs their impact should be fairly small.On both Test and Live, the naked and unbuffed level 90 Fury now has 118 wisdom, 17 crit, 0 crit bonus, 0 potency, 0 ability mod. If the myth is only adding 10% of wisdom, with these low numbers I'd only expect a change of 11-12 (depending on how they round 11.8% )Death Swarm (Expert): with mythical (without) -- (difference)Live -- 314-371 + 264-321/tick (303-359 + 253-309/tick) -- (11-12 + 11-12/tick)Test -- 318-374 + 256-313/tick (306-363 + 256-313/tick) -- (12-11 + 0-0/tick)Thunderbolt (Expert): with mythical (without) -- (difference)Live -- 2176-3586 (2165-3574) -- (11-12)Test -- 2264-3732 (2252-3720) -- (12-12)Wrath of Nature (AA): with mythical (without) -- (difference)Live -- 1087-1616 + 329-488/tick (1075-1604 + 318-476/tick) -- (12-12 + 11-12)Test -- 1139-1699 + 336-503/tick (1135-1695 + 336-503/tick) -- (4-4 + 0-0/tick)Salve (Master): with mythical (without) -- (difference)Live -- 1397-1705 (1386-1694) -- (11-11)Test -- 1407-1717 (1395-1705) -- (12-12)Nature's Elixir (Grandmaster): with mythical (without) -- (difference)Live -- 2478-3026 (2466-3014) -- (12-12)Test -- 2526-3084 (2514-3073) -- (12-11)Regrowth (Expert): with mythical (without) -- (difference)Live -- 856-1043 + 681-830/tick (844-1032 + 669-818/tick) -- (12-11 + 12-12/tick)Test -- 897-1093 + 702-858/tick (885-1082 + 702-858/tick) -- (12-11 + 0-0/tick)Untamed Regeneration (Expert): with mythical (without) -- (difference)Live -- 1684-2056 (1673-2044) -- (11-12)Test -- 1776-2169 (1772-2165) -- (4-4)Autumn's Kiss (Master): with mythical (without) -- (difference)Live -- 886-1081 + 819-999/tick (875-1069 + 807-987/tick) -- (11-12 + 12-12)Test -- 926-1131 + 851-1040/tick (922-1127 + 851-1040/tick) -- (4-4 + 0-0/tick)

Meows

05-23-2010, 10:37 PM

heres my current opinion, the Devs need to go back and look at percentage based heals, and nukes and fix how potency works on them instead of taking the easy way out, and nerfing Furies and Mystics for a problem on a class completely unrelated to the fury and mystics that had this issue in the first place.Please go spend some time to fix this problem.

Travleer33

05-24-2010, 07:51 AM

There is ample evidence that some or most of the devs dont even know how their own game works (both playwise and code mechanics)... They should maybe read some forums to learn something

Raiwon

05-24-2010, 12:00 PM

Its outrageous a fluff item thread gets 50+ dev responses in a couple days, and we havent gotten any in this thread regarding a gamebreaking issue.Realy shows what the devs are made of tbh,but i still hope they will respond here and prove us wrong though ...

HBP

05-24-2010, 01:12 PM

Can the devs please take a moment from the fluff items in this game .....What about actual game mechanics that make this game actual work?? Can we please get a dev response to this....This is ridiculous....

Frametree

05-24-2010, 03:07 PM

Maybe there's no definitive word yet. I mean the update is still gobs of time off -- oh wait! Nevermind. ;P

TheOnlyOneLeft

05-24-2010, 03:14 PM

I'm glad the devs see it fit to make the mystic mythical pretty much completely useless, thanks a ton!

EQPrime

05-24-2010, 03:50 PM

The devs are too busy posting about RMT mounts to worry about game mechanics...

Frametree

05-24-2010, 04:53 PM

It's going live. It's a global bug-fix affecting more than just the healer classes weighing in here. FYI.

Anastasie

05-24-2010, 04:58 PM

The fury mythical has always been an increase to base heals/damage and somewhere (when mythicals were introduced) - it was confirmed by a dev that it was intended to give us base. This is not and never was a bug.

Frametree

05-24-2010, 05:08 PM

Just telling you what I was told by Timetravelling. Whether it was officially a bug or what, the result at this time is the same: it's going to be changed.

Anastasie

05-24-2010, 05:23 PM

If this nerf is going in, then they seriously need to do something to fix our mythical buff. This change is making it utterly useless. It wasn't all that great to begin with and now it's going to be a pos.

Meows

05-24-2010, 05:56 PM

10% of our wisdom as ability mod for our stuff is crap, i understand why this "fix" went in, but its a fix for an issue on percentage based stuff (which with the uncap in potency is needed). But this was the easy way to fix the problem, probably took a whole 5 mins to fix this code that resulted in a nice big nerf to these two healer classes (which did not need to be nerfed, the two most underpowered healers in the game are the fury, and mystic)

Iskandar

05-24-2010, 06:14 PM

<cite>Frametree wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just telling you what I was told by Timetravelling. Whether it was officially a bug or what, the result at this time is the same: it's going to be changed. </blockquote>I suppose secondhand information is better than no information. It says a lot, that does. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" />

Frametree

05-24-2010, 06:16 PM

I pm'd 3 devs, and I give props to Time for responding, even tho (a) somebody should have posted before then, and (b) the news was bad.

Anastasie

05-24-2010, 07:22 PM

If nerfing the fury/mystic mythicals is an "unfuntunate" side effect of fixing Reaver, then they need to just change the mechanic on our mythical to give us a straight amount of potency and just scrap the % of our wisdom mechanic. This change in effect is breaking our mythicals. The potency we gained was the only thing that made our mythical worth anything at all. Now it will be complete garbage unless they fix them to be a static amount of potency (something equivalent to what we had (based upon 1400-1500 wisdom).

Frametree

05-24-2010, 08:17 PM

Agreed. It's a horrible thing indeed.

Spritelady

05-24-2010, 08:38 PM

The fury mythical was the WORST of the mythicals to begin with, now it is even more a hunka junka.

Te'ana

05-25-2010, 12:26 AM

Well so far, the only positive thing to come from this thread is that it hasn't been deleted, LOL.

Meows

05-25-2010, 01:33 AM

I want to point out to the Devs just how worthless this change makes the fury mythical.I have recently swapped out a single piece of gear that gave me just a power proc for a different piece of gear. This new item gives me 147 ability mod, and some crit, as where the one one gave me nothing except a power proc. This change gives me MORE ability mod then my mythical buff does. Its just a huge disappointment to see this go from a somewhat useful buff, to complete crap in one night, and then told that it doesn't effect our classes... at this point, i'll give up this buff for something similar to the warden with the power proc. i'll take the templar's thing to make a very nice buff groupwide (make it feral).I would like to know how the balance of classes is unaffected by this change, because no matter how i see it the mystic and fury lose out in every way with this change.

Geden

05-25-2010, 12:06 PM

I felt that it is important to join the complaint to give our developers a perspective on how many ppl this nerf affects. I live and play on AB server, and we have many good effective healers competing with our class for raid/group. And I have to work extra hard to make a spot for my Fury even though my guild thinks I've got good heals for my class. What this nerf means to us, Furies, besides the obvious reduction in dps/healing, is loss of any utility. I do not and will not be a seconary/backup healer, because prior to this nerf I relied on my enhanced HOT's to keep the group alive. And now it will not be enough. /faintDevs if you hear us, please have mercy and look at us from perspective of a tank. Who will want Furies in groups if they heal any weaker than we already do? Please give us our myth back the way it was.

Arcanemundi

05-25-2010, 02:13 PM

I am seeing a serious drop in size (1000 HP) of my group ward, and other heals are taking a beating too.<img src="http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z127/BCBYR/EQ2/EQ2Flames%20Files/Undo_Button_is_Required.png" width="400" height="266" />

quetzaqotl

05-25-2010, 02:24 PM

Seeing as our mythicals were turned into a buff this isnt an nerf to just an item but a nerf to one of our core buffs, it's like stealth nerfing one of our core abilities. Or our class(es) as a whole seeing as this affects a lot of our spells/abilities.Balancing mythicals is even more important now, as everyone now can easily (and will) obtain the mythic buff; nerfing our mythical buff really unbalances the already weak balance there was as the fury mythical was already one of the least desireable mythicals created.What compensation do we get? I hope the devs make sure we stay/are made balanced as we were more deserving of a buff instead of this unwarrented and unjust nerf.as has been said before we could do with some dev attention... shine some light on this please.

Meows

05-25-2010, 03:44 PM

Since this is no longer "In Testing", can we get this moved to a different forum, such as general gameplay. There should be more input since a lot of people don't log on test, more likely to be seen there.

SailorOrion

05-26-2010, 02:39 AM

So our mythical self-buff (the thing that is stripped off the weapon during Epic Repercussions) is:1) a 120-180 ability mod, depending on other gear2) A mini-damage proc on spell attacks that will trigger a totally useless miniscule SELFheal if we land a Melee hit (which almost never happens).You know, if they'd just replace the entire mythical by a flat 5% potency, we'd be (much) better off.That's our mythical. Sounds more like abitrary treasured/legendary trash drop for me.Ardra

Comtorro

05-26-2010, 10:15 AM

i thought things would change with new leadership on the dev team and smokejumpers willingness to wade into the mess that is the frourms. if this keeps up my main fury will be as useless as my alt gaurd. i am vary sad that the community managers dont have the time to address a thread that has grown to 8 pages in less than 2 weeks let alone the fact that they deleted a thread that was for the same issue. the state of this game gets worse with ever update when they are so fix on making the game look better and adding more fluff than ever before. by the way shader 3.0 is [Removed for Content] and locks up constently.

Sharakari

05-26-2010, 04:32 PM

And still no "red name" response. I say change the title of this thread to "More Station Cash Ideas" and THEN it will get noticed, read, and replied to!!!! Of course then they will just add a new mythical to Station Cash for us to buy... keeping the new Directors "microtransactions" model alive and well!

ATTHWSM

05-26-2010, 04:33 PM

Ok really SOE? You have 9 pages of people complaining about this, stating DOZENS of reasons why its STUPID, why its NOT OP, why it should NOT be changed, and yet OH HAI CUSTOMERS shut up we dont care, NERF. SAILORORION puts it nicely, our mythical, one of the class defining things a toon is supposed to have, is a worthless 150 ability mod buff, with a DA proc, cuz you know, were not capped on DA or anything at this point.... cough.Its funny, cuz I swap out some gear and run some tests, and the only thing being effected by our Myth is my group ward, ONE spell is getting ANYTHING from our MYTHICAL weapon. This means Torpor/Single Target/Oberon/Runic Armor arent getting anything, 1/5 spells is effected? thats like.. 20% ? Thats like... fail? So with this AWESOME change SOE, what do you propose we get for adorns now? Beccause before it was Ability Mod adorns for everything, but now, whats the point? Were capped on the spells that make up 90% of our hps.Figure this out SOE Devs. Change it to a flat out 5%, change it to a PROC at 2.5 times per minute for 20 seconds with the SAME effect it had, do something, because right now, its worthless, and it came after ZERO complaints for 2 years regarding it. Thanks guys for your awesomeness, how bout a response?

Fahd

05-27-2010, 05:33 AM

9 pages of complaints and no official reply. Do SOE really think so little about the people posting here (all paying customers i might add). I find the lack of any reply unbelievable.The Mystic mythical is now a laughing stock. Torpor alone for me is reduced 30% after the patch. The Myth adds nothing to our heals and yet again we are near the bottom of the healing tree. [Removed for Content] SOE I hope you are happy you have p^^^^d off every Mystic and Fury out their who love their class!!I will be cancelling both my accounts and enjoying the real world now that I lost my last bit of respect for youFahd

Ebarel

05-27-2010, 05:35 AM

<cite>ATTHWSM wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok really SOE? You have 9 pages of people complaining about this, stating DOZENS of reasons why its STUPID, why its NOT OP, why it should NOT be changed, and yet OH HAI CUSTOMERS shut up we dont care, NERF. </blockquote>that is obviously the standard procedure to take care of customers. Look at the Ilu forums since beta. Not A SINGLE!! answer to all the feedback, suggestions and complaints. you could probably use swear words or post po** there and nobody will notice - or care ....

Tippietoe

05-27-2010, 10:51 AM

I just want to add my disappointment, I hate being messed with <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

quetzaqotl

05-27-2010, 11:59 AM

As someone else said in another thread with raising the potency cap this nerf is somewhat masked but raising others while keeping us at the same level or a bit up/down as before is complete bull.If fixing this issue with our mythicals is so hard to do change our mythical so that they are made more desireable (they shouldve done that anyway) by adding a new effect or change an exsisting effect on our mythicals and make it/them more useful.dev response pls!

Sharakari

05-27-2010, 01:18 PM

Not sure about anyone else but I sure noticed a difference in my DPS since the GU launch.... for the better! My nukes are hitting for about 2K more than normal. Heals are up too. Some will say this is due to the removal of the Potency cap but I am only at 35% potency anyways. So this is (for now) good news until I can give it a better test during a raid.That being said, I am still disappointed in the lack of response. Even a note that said "wait and see" would have been at least an acknowledgment of our frustration and concerns.

emby79

05-27-2010, 01:55 PM

<cite>Sharakari@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Not sure about anyone else but I sure noticed a difference in my DPS since the GU launch.... for the better! My nukes are hitting for about 2K more than normal. Heals are up too. Some will say this is due to the removal of the Potency cap but I am only at 35% potency anyways. So this is (for now) good news until I can give it a better test during a raid.That being said, I am still disappointed in the lack of response. Even a note that said "wait and see" would have been at least an acknowledgment of our frustration and concerns.</blockquote>You have more then 35% potency, that's just from gear. What you fail to consider is the base damage from Master of Storms, other AAs and perhaps red adornments. Due to all of this then you might have been capped on certain spells and you therefore see a significant increase in them.Everyone got this boost though, and not just us. The nerf to our mythical was by no means the end of the world, but it's still a change to what was an already poor mythical weapon/buff, and our nukes and heals would've likely been even better if this change hadn't happened.

Spritelady

05-27-2010, 02:14 PM

I lost about 600 points on heals, gained about 600 on nukes.

quetzaqotl

05-29-2010, 09:01 AM

Sweet so this whole thing is swept under the rug thanks again for responding to this thread devs much appreciated.Would say I was disappointed, however this is so common it was predictable, thanks for nothing yet again.

snowli

05-29-2010, 10:19 AM

My feeling right now is they should change the name of this forum to "venting trashbin, we don't listen to feedback" it's not just this thread, but any thread that has a serious discussion of mechanic changes coming off test is almost guaranteed to never get any dev feedback, not even a "we read this" but threads about sparkleponies and other ephemera might get 50 responses.The most frustating aspect is, half the time you have no idea if any of the dev team is even aware of the changes that happen without any patch notes, and you end up posting and feedbacking again and again just wondering if anyone even reads this stuff.

Oakum

06-01-2010, 08:01 PM

quetzaqotl

06-02-2010, 09:31 AM

It sucks to see a warden comment on their mythical again on a thread about 2 myths which got nerfed undeservedly (as in they were both not that powerful in comparison to begin with) .Was hoping to read some news, instead of someone ripping a quote from a couple of pages ago which didnt really have to do with the op.Ah well thanks for the bump I spose, seeing as this thread will be buried soon with no action or response by a dev.

Meows

06-05-2010, 01:07 AM

this topic seems to be dead now with zero results in fixing this big nerf...

Prestissimo

06-05-2010, 08:03 AM

There is a simple solution to the developers not caring. Quit the game.I did when SF went live and the countless bugs that I reported like mad all went in, my classes where nerfed unnessecarily, and all the time I spent beta testing for SF was shown to be absolutely worthless.Honestly, I came back to the game after being gone for a while, but i'm getting back to the point again where I'm debating on cancelling my subscription again and it's only been a month. Nothing ever changes because players whine and eventually accept it. When the players start to cancel their subs in non-significant amounts or there is an outright boycott of playing done by a class type (all healers affected in this case) then they'll have to take notice and start caring because it will negatively affect everyone playing the game because someone decided to take a dump on one class without thinking it through.Until players do something about it other than just complain, it will be done and absolutely no one at soe will care at all how upset you get. If the devs wont read or comment on anything other than sparkleponies and other crap, then maybe it's time the players stopped playing and let the devs fall out of employment so they can read and post about sparkleponies all day long on unemployment.They know that you'll keep coming back regardless of what they do, so they're going to keep doing it knowing that you're going to keep taking it. You can break the cycle right now, or continue to complain to deaf ears and accept it and move on to the next time you get nerfed or buffed.

Telbain

06-06-2010, 12:43 AM

I'm not really sure I undrestand the motivation behind these changes. If any of those classes were disproportionally out healing other classes I could see it. That really isn't the case.I'd argue that the fury, templar and mystic are actually behidn the power curve in certain areas right now.

ATTHWSM

06-08-2010, 12:57 AM

SOE, hello? Are you there? This is actually a huge issue, something that like.. you know, you should MAYBE address?> Say "OH WHOOPS are bad, well fix it ASAP!" OR even, "Yeah, we did it, screw you guys! " this whole not talking and not addressing a noted and serious issue thats effecting this many people, makes you look not only incompetent, but also like garbage game devs. Spend less time fixing peoples pretty fruit plates for their houses, and cute tigers to ride, more time on what the games about aye?

Ebarel

06-08-2010, 08:01 AM

<cite>ATTHWSM wrote:</cite><blockquote>SOE, hello? Are you there? This is actually a huge issue, something that like.. you know, you should MAYBE address?> Say "OH WHOOPS are bad, well fix it ASAP!" OR even, "Yeah, we did it, screw you guys! " this whole not talking and not addressing a noted and serious issue thats effecting this many people, makes you look not only incompetent, but also like garbage game devs. Spend less time fixing peoples pretty fruit plates for their houses, and cute tigers to ride, more time on what the games about aye?</blockquote>you already have your answer "SoE way"no answer is your second option. If it was unintended there would have been that OOPS already. Sneaking it in without mentioning in the patchnotes is just another sign of having no guts to tell people the truth.Easy to see, go to the Illusionist forum. Not a single answer on all the issues of class-destruction. Nobody there believes there might be a change to the better. Thats why so many already left the game or changed toons.Also you still miss around 90 pages of complaining. Below 100 pages there is not much hope for you to get any attention. Good luck to you though, seeing how furies burn mana faster than anyone else in a raid i fully understand your issue.

Odys

06-14-2010, 04:52 AM

That's why so many SOE customer left Eq1 for WOW 5-6 years ago, SOE never showed any consideration for the player community, it has been from the start their bigeest error.

Ebarel

06-14-2010, 08:24 AM

that is still an issue today. What i really do not understand is the lack of being able to realize that it is 100 times easier to keep happy customers than to attrackt new ones. That is common knowledge to everybody in marketing and customer relations.With every of these "changes" they chase away some people who are really unhappy with the changes and dont like playing their toon any more where they invested a lot of time. i lost a couple of ingame friends already that way, some of them being really good players and long time customers. I dont think that any of these changes make new people join the game like "woot, they finally nerfed Illusionist class to oblivion, now i can finally start one!" .I also dont think that is just coincidence that so many people stop playing just after things like that happening to their class/toon/abilities/gear(they worked very long getting)

Nefchast

06-14-2010, 05:15 PM

<cite>Odys@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote>That's why so many SOE customer left Eq1 for WOW 5-6 years ago, SOE never showed any consideration for the player community, it has been from the start their bigeest error.</blockquote>To be fair, I remember the early years of WoW and its forums. This same kind of 'devs don't exist' treatment happened in varying degrees there. I seem to remember the warlock forums going months without any dev sightings.It's not simply an SOE problem, it's a common MMO developer problem. Which is sad.If any mods/devs do read this (if you exist <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" />) let me share a little tip, as a longtime MMO customer: you don't have to say anything -- no solid facts, no 'this is what we're doing' -- just a simple reply to a thread to show that you've been there, hell, use a lolcat picture or something. That helps reassure us, customers, that you at least see what we're saying and that you actually exist.

quetzaqotl

06-18-2010, 01:53 PM

Yeah another thread ignored another day of work for soe, thanks for listening to your costumers.Pulling the plug on my account yet again, lasted longer than I expected tbh and no you can't have my stuff nostalgia will perhaps pull me back in with the next expansion.

Travleer33

06-19-2010, 01:43 PM

The biggest mystery to me is why there was never any mention of this change in patch notes.

Gisallo

06-28-2010, 06:58 PM

<cite>Travleer33 wrote:</cite><blockquote>The biggest mystery to me is why there was never any mention of this change in patch notes.</blockquote>Well thats likely for a series of reasons.A) they intially didn't realize (more than likely) that the change to Rever was going to effect all this stuffB) when they did figure it out, they couldn't figure out a way to work around itC) they realized that having no work around was going to be an unneeded nerf to at least 3 classesD) better to try and hide it and hope no one notices rather than come out and say "sorry guys we are screwing you because of an unrealted classes issues and basically don't know how NOT to screw you." Because all this does is make them look incompetent

bmg

06-30-2010, 04:03 PM

From eq2wire: <a href="http://eq2wire.feldoncentral.com/2010/06/28/eleven-questions-for-xelgad-eq2wire-exclusive/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2wire.feldoncentral.com/20...wire-exclusive/</a><ul><li>Q: Can you comment about the recent changes to the Fury and Mystic mythical weapons? This was a 20-30% decrease in healing effectiveness. Thus far, there has been no developer comment on the subject. What were your your goals with this change?</li></ul> <ul><li>A: With the removal of the potency cap, it brought to light multiple balance issues with the previous effect on those mythical weapons and we had to adjust it down.</li></ul>

Odys

06-30-2010, 09:25 PM

<cite>Nefchast wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Odys@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote>That's why so many SOE customer left Eq1 for WOW 5-6 years ago, SOE never showed any consideration for the player community, it has been from the start their bigeest error.</blockquote>To be fair, I remember the early years of WoW and its forums. This same kind of 'devs don't exist' treatment happened in varying degrees there. I seem to remember the warlock forums going months without any dev sightings.It's not simply an SOE problem, it's a common MMO developer problem. Which is sad.If any mods/devs do read this (if you exist <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" />) let me share a little tip, as a longtime MMO customer: you don't have to say anything -- no solid facts, no 'this is what we're doing' -- just a simple reply to a thread to show that you've been there, hell, use a lolcat picture or something. That helps reassure us, customers, that you at least see what we're saying and that you actually exist.</blockquote>I disagree, i was playing a priest and an evergoing discussion was happening with the Dev in charge of priests. Priests had issues to solo and they were taken into account, small changes and modifications were made very often. And big one at leat twice a year.I quitted like 3 years ago, after the teenager & PVP invasion.Raidwise Wow beated Eq2 by far, i was able to understand what was going on very clearly without the need of external sources, a feared person was looking feared, an Epic wizzard preparing a nasty AOE was clearly preparing something nasty. Instances were fun with a lot of CC and sometimes kiting.Indeed Wow at that time had a better combat gameplay than Eq2 today, it was fluid, the raid interface was clean, effects were visibles. Eq2 superiority is mostly an adult community and non combat aspects (housing, apperance , guild halls etc ...)