Is this the sum of most people's bg experience so far? *more opening content [Archive]

Ralpmet

05-08-2010, 03:01 PM

Now, granted this was just the last match I had, but this basically sums up my experience with people that play blue servers;<img src="http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/8531/eq2000020.jpg" />So to sum it up; right off the bat, me as a coercer was the first person down there on my team, to my dismay to realize that only me and an assassin had jumped down. I thought to myself, well maybe those other 3 dots just didn't realize it started, so I politely said in group chat "Hey, the match started."I spawn up, look at this warden, and while our entire team had run out and died, this warden just stood there. The second I voted afk, she buffs up, run down in a giant circle, then starts casting what I assume to be more buffs as they had no healing effect. Then continues to run in a giant circle again, and come back to the same spot to cast the same effect.At this point I say "Hey guys I think we should report this warden it looks like a bot" and I receive replies from my entire team saying "I'm not a snitch just shut your **** and take your free token". Great I'm thinking, a group with an afk warden and a bunch of 14 year olds, this is how I want to spend my time, losing the opportunity to earn 2 tokens more.Seconds after everyone shut up the warden speaks up, "Don't report me I'm here, look I'm moving around", and some other scout on my team (not the assassin) says "yea we were just waiting for our third to show up and he never did"Oh, ok, that's acceptable I'm thinking, I mean, the group didn't catch the 6th member until 1:30 in, so maybe there's validity in that, spending time in vent trying to get a hold of someone or something. Not really an excuse to let everyone else die and your team get so far behind, but it's still at a point where a comeback could be staged. Then I tell them where the relic is, and say if we all push with heals we'll be ok and we could burst down the relic and the warden could keep whoever had the relic up without any issues.And once again to my dismay, the warden says "I'm not healing you **** just take your free tokens"At no point was I slanderous, or bossy, or anything a long any lines of provocation. So what's with being put in random pugs time after time again that aren't even going to try? They just want the free 1 token? What the heck is that? Definitely need to start finding more groups serverside I guess.This is an example of a match where the whole team contributed, look at the massive difference in people who try in my group versus people who don't.<img src="http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/3289/eq2000024.jpg" width="1280" height="1002" />Here's a Ganak with a pub that contributed just prior to this match, where my pug was against the people that were in my group ^^<img src="http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/167/eq2000022y.jpg" />I could literally upload every single battlegrounds i've been in as they all save screenshots, and it's either one way or the other. People care, or people don't. And whichever way the mood of the team goes my dps and contributions go the same way, regardless of my effort. This is bullcrap and people need to be punished for it.

Corydonn

05-08-2010, 03:03 PM

Everyone on a blue server fails apparently!

Ralpmet

05-08-2010, 03:45 PM

I'm not talking one match, I'm not talking about all blue server people.What I'm saying is in my 30 or so pug matches that have been negatively influenced, 29 of them were by people from blue servers who simply didn't want to be there but wanted the gear. That's pretty lame, don't ruin content for everyone because you're lazy.

Rainmare

05-08-2010, 04:10 PM

the point of it is yes, most people on a blue server have ZERO interest in PVP. none. (hence why they are on a blue server) but, the devs have loaded up the BG gear with so many procs and such that work in PvE, that they want the gear. they'd rather do nothing, get 1 token, adn jump back in then actually attempt to fight the battle. The more they fight, the longer the match, the fewer matches they can shove into thier playtime.some of the BG stuff you only see on raid gear. things like Torrent, Fatal Lifetap, for example. So if you don't raid, you do BGs for the proccing gear. and you want to do as many as possible as you can fit in to ramp up those token amounts.

LardLord

05-08-2010, 04:15 PM

Yeah, people give up all the time. I kinda wish teams that got completely blown out didn't even get a single token, but that would suck for the teams who actually do try in those situations but are just outmatched.From the sounds of it, I wonder if that Warden had a separate account on the other team that he was trying to help win...it has happened before /shrug.

Trynt

05-08-2010, 04:16 PM

There are lazy good-for-nothings on all servers. Seen plenty from various, blue/red alike. Creating artificial global labels is silly.

StaticLex

05-08-2010, 04:49 PM

Here's the sum of my experience so far:Playing a priest: Miserable experience unless I'm in a guild premade and we're all in Vent.Playing a mage: Mildly entertaining.Playing a scout: Pretty fun no matter what the group make-up is.Playing a fighter: Mildly entertaining.

Ralpmet

05-08-2010, 05:19 PM

Screw that man I'd rather play my Inq in there than my coercer after today's runs. At least on my inq I know i'm gonna stay alive if I run into one scout, and it's going to take more than 2 people on their team to kill me, and I can hold the relic for as long as I can outheal the damage.Zoning into bg's in pug on my coercer is like shaking dice, 1/8 times I've gotten a healer that did their job, 1/4 times I've gotten a tank that could hold down the group , a 1/3 chance of getting a healer who is going to run solo.And in all of the pugs i've done I've run into at least 2 people on my team (even in raids, just on my team alone there will be 2 people, always in pugs) that do less than 15k in any field that they should be excelling in, (Damage on dps classes, heals on healing classes, damage recieved on tank classes). It's just gross. Single players shouldn't be able to ruin group experiences simply because they don't know the people, that's bogus.*edit- And before anyone calls me out on the fact I didn't do over 15k in that match, their scout was killing me instantly, so I'd pop PoM and run in and get a spell off then die, wait for it again and do it again. I was much more concerned with the fact that our team didn't have a chance at any point and was trying to figure out what was going on.

Crismorn

05-08-2010, 07:35 PM

Notsovilepriest

05-08-2010, 08:33 PM

StaticLex

05-08-2010, 08:43 PM

I'm embarrassed now that I can step back and look at it. These people who AFK and leech tokens and experience have the right plan. Why play your butt off when idiot teamates drag you down and cause a loss? Or go AFK? Or intentionally screw up the group composition? Collect tokens win or lose AND the same amount of experience while they surf a forum like this? Sign me up!

Crismorn

05-08-2010, 08:46 PM

I like how you punish other players because you suck at playing this game.The best part is how you are rewarded for it, what a joke.

Neskonlith

05-08-2010, 10:26 PM

It's kind of like a cancerous tumour of cheating is encouraged to grow whenever SOE turns a blind eye on exploiters abusing the system.Sure would be nice if SOE would boot more exploiters out of BeeGees to stop those lamers from spoiling the fun.

TuinalOfTheNexus

05-08-2010, 11:12 PM

If there was some form of stratification it would help.I mean, the majority of matches are ridiculously one-sided. If casual people are finding time and time again that they're hopelessly outgeared/matched then it's hard to blame them for just taking a 10 min afk. The fact also that Ganak and Smugglers penalise you for trying and still losing (since the game takes longer), doesn't help matters.It would maybes be a good thing if they implemented some kind of ranking based on wins/losses, which would let hardcore players progress to higher ranked BGs with more tokens as an incentive, but also have lower ranked ones that let casual players participate without facing hardcore PvE raiders or PvPers.

Notsovilepriest

05-08-2010, 11:22 PM

<cite>TuinalOfTheNexus wrote:</cite><blockquote>If there was some form of stratification it would help.I mean, the majority of matches are ridiculously one-sided. If casual people are finding time and time again that they're hopelessly outgeared/matched then it's hard to blame them for just taking a 10 min afk. The fact also that Ganak and Smugglers penalise you for trying and still losing (since the game takes longer), doesn't help matters.It would maybes be a good thing if they implemented some kind of ranking based on wins/losses, which would let hardcore players progress to higher ranked BGs with more tokens as an incentive, but also have lower ranked ones that let casual players participate without facing hardcore PvE raiders or PvPers.</blockquote>It's extremely easy to blame them, what are you talking about. If you aren't out there putting any effort into the match, you aren't learning anything and you will continue to fail as a BG/PvP player. The best way to learn in BG/PvP is trial by fire as much as it stinks, even if you are undergeared. Then when you can finally do decent undergeared, you will be a formitable player with decent/good gear. If you opt to just afk, you are cheating yourself and your team

StaticLex

05-08-2010, 11:44 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>I like how you punish other players because you suck at playing this game.The best part is how you are rewarded for it, what a joke.</blockquote>I think a wise man once said.. suck it up, buttercup?

Neskonlith

05-09-2010, 12:05 AM

<cite>TuinalOfTheNexus wrote:</cite><blockquote>I mean, the majority of matches are ridiculously one-sided.</blockquote>Matches are guaranteed to be one-sided when exploiters deliberately sabotage the contests. Maybe the issue is more that exploiters are confused by how complicated the entire concept of BeeGees is supposed to work. Perhaps we should put together a helpful Frequent "Battle-Slackers" (B.S.) Excuses list to assist the cheaters improve their gameplay experience - I'll start it out with a few common excuses:Battle Slacker Excuse: "they have healers, we have none!"Solution: kill their healers so the other side no longer has heals.Battle Slacker Excuse: "people keep voting me AFK when I try to cheat!"Solution: stop being a cheating scumbag and play an honest game.Battle Slacker Excuse: "SOE made all of this FOTM gear and left in honour-system loopholes for scumbags like me to exploit, so I'm forced to cheat the system because I have no ethics worth spitting on!"Solution: type in the special cheating scumbag's command: "/quit" to claim your reward. Repeat every time you log in to improve gameplay on your home server.Feel free to contribute more to the B.S. Excuses list!<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" />

Crismorn

05-09-2010, 12:50 AM

<cite>StaticLex wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>I like how you punish other players because you suck at playing this game.The best part is how you are rewarded for it, what a joke.</blockquote>I think a wise man once said.. suck it up, buttercup?</blockquote>I've been thinking about it a bit more and tbh I no longer care, afk all the gear you want. Chances are you would not even know what gear to wear.You could save yourself alot of trouble and just dont even bother joining bg's, gear wont help players of your caliber

Rainmare

05-09-2010, 04:06 AM

when they talk about horribly one sided they mean horribly one sided. we're talking people in Avatar/High end 'hard mode' gear against players that have instance gear from SF and T2 gear from TSO.yes a fight where one team has a healer and the other doesn't is terribly one sided unless the healer is so undergeared in comparsion to you that you can burn him down before the other 5 people on his team decimate your dpsers. adn then you gotta hope and pray it's not a shaman with banewarding.of course you can negate that all with made groups. but again for blue servers, most these guys have no interest in pvping, or learning to pvp. they just want the match over quick, get thier token, and jump into another match, and so on, until they get enough tokens to get the gear.you probably wouldn't stumble across this problem if BG gear was restricted to BGs. cause then only people that wanted to play them would do them.but considering there's only what, 1 pvp server? the others shut down/merged for lack of population...I bet without a pve incentive they would have died as quickly as the majdul arena did.

Avirodar

05-09-2010, 12:06 PM

I have encountered more than a fair share of incompetent, and afking players from PVP servers.It is a game wide issue, not a PVE server issue.

Grumble69

05-09-2010, 01:14 PM

Personally I think the OP is full of (BLEEP). The vast majority of matches are winnable. The reasons I lose are in this order:1. Folks not understanding ___________. Maybe it's their class (e.g. lack of taunts, etc.) Or maybe it's the fine subtleties of the match (e.g. what to do when you have the lead in Ganak's and both teams have the flags). Or maybe they're running around like it's a McDonald's playland going "PEW PEW PEW!". That's just how PUGs go sometimes.2. It was a good fight, but I just ended up on the losing side. I don't mind losing this way at all.3. Lack of leadership. Folks in the match generally knew what to do. But their wasn't that cohesion to lead them. You can get away with that in Gears and Ganak's. But an unled Smugglers can be disasterous. 4. Matchmaker. Didn't have the classes we needed.5. A superior Nag team vs your PUG. After a while you KNOW who those players are. e.g. I keep wailing on this wizard named Gottii and he's standing there like a tank mowing people down. When you encounter #5, just play the match out and move to one of the other BGs. Some of these BGs will just keep pitting you up against the same crew over & over. #5 happens in only a small percentage of my matches.

StaticLex

05-09-2010, 03:20 PM

<cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>we're talking people in Avatar/High end 'hard mode' gear against players that have instance gear from SF and T2 gear from TSO.</blockquote>I've got some hardmode pieces as well as raid jewelry and I'm pretty sure I get owned in the face worse when I use that in BGs than when I use the toughness gear. So basically gear is not an excuse IMO.

Notsovilepriest

05-09-2010, 05:56 PM

<cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>when they talk about horribly one sided they mean horribly one sided. we're talking people in Avatar/High end 'hard mode' gear against players that have instance gear from SF and T2 gear from TSO.yes a fight where one team has a healer and the other doesn't is terribly one sided unless the healer is so undergeared in comparsion to you that you can burn him down before the other 5 people on his team decimate your dpsers. adn then you gotta hope and pray it's not a shaman with banewarding.of course you can negate that all with made groups. but again for blue servers, most these guys have no interest in pvping, or learning to pvp. they just want the match over quick, get thier token, and jump into another match, and so on, until they get enough tokens to get the gear.you probably wouldn't stumble across this problem if BG gear was restricted to BGs. cause then only people that wanted to play them would do them.but considering there's only what, 1 pvp server? the others shut down/merged for lack of population...I bet without a pve incentive they would have died as quickly as the majdul arena did.</blockquote>Theres 2 PvP servers because for so long they were neglected and got absolutely no attention when it came to fixing issues which in turn drove people away, then when they tried to "Fix" things they made them even worse by going from one extreme to another. It has nothing to do with incentives, PVP servers were booming at first and there were no rewards, just the enjoyment of fighting other players.

Rainmare

05-09-2010, 11:26 PM

but that's part of it. yes, people on Pvp servers enjoy fighting other players. most people on blue servers don't. that's why they rolled on a blue server. I'll take my guild for example. there's maybe 5 people that use the BGs out of close to 100 accounts. all of them stopped playing on the bgs the second they got the tokens to buy the gear, and only did the bgs for the procs on said gear.like I said I'd wager that if they didn't make super powered PvE effects on the bg gear, then most blue server players wouldn't even bother with it.

Notsovilepriest

05-09-2010, 11:51 PM

Most of the BG gear is crap, and most of the people roll on PvE for a totally different reason. It's because most of the people that start this game have a friend that brought them in, and most of their friends were settled into PvE servers and guilds by the time PvP in this game was launched, it's not just because of a dislike of the playstyle. I'll take another step here and say for a lot of PvE players BGs reinvigorated their interest in the game and kept them play or brought them back, even in all the bugs they had.

Crismorn

05-10-2010, 12:00 AM

<cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>but that's part of it. yes, people on Pvp servers enjoy fighting other players. most people on blue servers don't. that's why they rolled on a blue server. I'll take my guild for example. there's maybe 5 people that use the BGs out of close to 100 accounts. all of them stopped playing on the bgs the second they got the tokens to buy the gear, and only did the bgs for the procs on said gear.like I said I'd wager that if they didn't make super powered PvE effects on the bg gear, then most blue server players wouldn't even bother with it.</blockquote>They dont.I never understood why some people find it so difficult to understand how gear in eq2 works

Ralpmet

05-10-2010, 12:09 AM

<cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite><blockquote>People care, or people don't. And whichever way the mood of the team goes my dps and contributions go the same way, regardless of my effort. This is bullcrap and people need to be punished for it.</blockquote>Updated OP, and this will remain the case forever it feels like.

Kota

05-10-2010, 01:57 AM

plenty of scrubs and slackers on nagafen too.

Tehom

05-10-2010, 04:29 AM

<cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite><blockquote>People care, or people don't. And whichever way the mood of the team goes my dps and contributions go the same way, regardless of my effort. This is bullcrap and people need to be punished for it.</blockquote>Updated OP, and this will remain the case forever it feels like.</blockquote>Looking at your screenshots, it really looks like the gist of your complaint is that you want to be on teams with players who will carry you. In the first screenshot, you were demolished not really because of incompetent groupmates (you all basically looked the same in terms of what you accomplished), but because the other side had two good wardens and Bloodclaws, who's a pretty decent brigand in the 80-89 set I've fought a lot. In the second screenshot, your team was absolutely carried by an assassin who was totally out of the league of the rest of your team and one of the decent wardens you fought against. The third was kind of a wash - your team lost despite having a brute force advantage because the other side had better flag snatchers (they captured twice to your once, assuming the dirge and templar with the 0 kills and almost nothing else were the snatchers).I don't think you have a lot of room to complain. There's some nagafen players in the 80-89 set who do have an almost insurmountable gear edge from the pvp sets for that range, but that's mostly well-geared crusader alts who are virtually unkillable compared to other people in that range. But unless you just happen to be grouped with one of em and watch them win a match single-handedly, you need to work with what you have, and that usually means compensating for weak players.

Ralpmet

05-10-2010, 11:37 AM

I'm on a class that relies on the effort of my team. I'm not looking for anyone to "carry me", I'm looking for people to do what they're supposed to in bgs instead of simply afking or refusing to play their part in a win.

SirDinadan

05-10-2010, 12:56 PM

Yes, OP, your screenshots are very common, and familiar to most who have played.The unfortunate part is that the most obvious suggestions I have to make the BG experience better would also lower the number of people participating. My personal opinion is that they would be more enjoyable even with fewer folks involved, but I understand SoE will look first to the population as their main indicator of how well things are going.If the BG armor only worked within BGs, and players had a BG tab (like appearance) for creating item exceptions just for BGs.. then you wouldn't have anyone worried about tokens unless they actually enjoyed the battleground experience, and anyone could join on the fly as time permitted.If the BG game assignment was purely random, with folks from every server and guild placed into groups that had minimum class requirements for starting the match.. you'd have fewer mismatches and better distribution of healers, PVP veterans, and bluebies.

Wigg

05-10-2010, 04:27 PM

<cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm on a class that relies on the effort of my team. I'm not looking for anyone to "carry me", I'm looking for people to do what they're supposed to in bgs instead of simply afking or refusing to play their part in a win.</blockquote>Almost ever class is capable of solo PVP. I can understand people complaining about the just God aweful people that show up on these things, but you never should have to depend on an entire group to determine how YOU play. Next point. REALLY suprised no one caught this. Ralphmet, didn't you just complain about your group being TERRIBLE on that first match, yet you did 6003 damage on a coercer?? REALLY?!? That looks more like a GROUP effort of being terrible than just the healer causing you issues. I have been in BGs where my WARLOCK out healed the HEALER (Fury) and we still won. How? I killed the other team, grabbed the relic, and ran in circles till i died. Revived, grabbed it again. What im trying to say is you are blaming your team on that one, when you yourself have VERY little effort in that match.

Quicksilver74

05-10-2010, 04:30 PM

Tokens should be merit-based, not free for participation. If your team wins, but you contributed very low, you should get nothing. If your team lost but you contributed alot, you should get at least 1.

Xill

05-10-2010, 04:39 PM

<cite>Crabbok@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Tokens should be merit-based, not free for participation. If your team wins, but you contributed very low, you should get nothing. If your team lost but you contributed alot, you should get at least 1. </blockquote>This would give the people that suck no reason to participate at all even more. If you suck but win... you lose.... if you suck and lose.... you majorly lose. And most people suck. So... fail? They want this to succeed so they will hand out everything on a silver platter so people think they are having fun...

Crismorn

05-10-2010, 06:18 PM

I like Crabboks idea, reward people for working together and do not reward people for afking/not trying.

LardLord

05-10-2010, 06:24 PM

It would be a good way to stop AFKers, but I don't know how they'd measure it accurately. Scoreboard stats wouldn't work.

Gisallo

05-10-2010, 06:25 PM

I simply don't get the afk thing. I am on a "blue" server and when I go into BG I work my butt off. why? Well first I have pride in my toon. Second if my team wins I get 3 not 1 token. That to me is a big difference. I understand why the gear has stuff relevant to PvE. If it didn't there would be little point to battlegrounds. They needed to incentivise it so blue server people would use it too...else all the time coding BG would have been better served elsewhere. At this same time I think they need to create a better system to govern afk. Lets say every so many seconds you need to be casting something, or at least have autoattack hitting something. Else you get kicked from the match and have th 15 minute lock out. I don't know.

Ralpmet

05-10-2010, 07:26 PM

<cite>Wraths wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm on a class that relies on the effort of my team. I'm not looking for anyone to "carry me", I'm looking for people to do what they're supposed to in bgs instead of simply afking or refusing to play their part in a win.</blockquote>Almost ever class is capable of solo PVP. I can understand people complaining about the just God aweful people that show up on these things, but you never should have to depend on an entire group to determine how YOU play. Next point. REALLY suprised no one caught this. Ralphmet, didn't you just complain about your group being TERRIBLE on that first match, yet you did 6003 damage on a coercer?? REALLY?!? That looks more like a GROUP effort of being terrible than just the healer causing you issues. I have been in BGs where my WARLOCK out healed the HEALER (Fury) and we still won. How? I killed the other team, grabbed the relic, and ran in circles till i died. Revived, grabbed it again. What im trying to say is you are blaming your team on that one, when you yourself have VERY little effort in that match.</blockquote>Ok, for the two guys that apparently think I'm a godaweful coercer and this and that. Seriously, you have no clue what you're talking about. Have you ever tried to solo on a coercer in the bg's? Or in open pvp? Sure, you can kill 1 on 1. No problem. You can kill 2 on 1. Pretty easy. With the way cc is now, 3 on 1 when the 3 doesn't have heals or a crusader, sure. But you're not going to run out against a full group of people and live by yourself, in any situation. More often than not I'm killed by AoE's and the healer was just simply too slow to group heal.If you think I'm so horrible these are the last few I took before I hit 90, and after 90 I will include more.<img src="http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1694/eq2000025s.jpg" /><img src="http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/518/eq2000026x.jpg" /><img src="http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/8260/eq2000031.jpg" />That one was actually pretty funny, we were getting stomped beyond belief so we all just kind of turtled the edge of our spawn as they were just camping out right outside it. I guess I spent the rest of my exp to 90 in cella.Anyway, what I think you think as hopping on someones stuff is actually me doing burst damage burning people down. If you're a coercer and you're hitting someone for more than 15 seconds you're doing something wrong, I can burn down wardens who are healing themselves in 15 seconds solo, so no. No, I'm not riding on other peoples stuff, what's going on is I'm burning people down like a scout would 1 by 1, I'm not doing more damage than people have health. That's why I have killing blows in a majority of the screenshots, #1 in a smugs den in killing blows first post.

Shorcon

05-11-2010, 04:44 PM

<cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>the point of it is yes, most people on a blue server have ZERO interest in PVP. none. (hence why they are on a blue server) but, the devs have loaded up the BG gear with so many procs and such that work in PvE, that they want the gear. they'd rather do nothing, get 1 token, adn jump back in then actually attempt to fight the battle. The more they fight, the longer the match, the fewer matches they can shove into thier playtime.some of the BG stuff you only see on raid gear. things like Torrent, Fatal Lifetap, for example. So if you don't raid, you do BGs for the proccing gear. and you want to do as many as possible as you can fit in to ramp up those token amounts.</blockquote>Um, bg gear procs dont work in pve. Seriously people. You are trying to say that blue's are your problem. Nah, not blues. It's harvesters. Alot of the boting you see in bg is from vox/bazaar. They sell the tokens on LG. Many bluebies actualy do care what happens in these pugs you refer to. Many more blue's have left bg's do to the inconsistancy and chaotic out take on gear. There is no way to get a grip on what is and isnt op in bg. While I am sure you have had your share of bot/harvest in bgs they are less of an influence in ganak/smuggs. I hate botters as much as the next. Dont turn this into a bluebie stereotype. We blues have held our own in bg since the less than honest gear nerf of nag/vox. take away thier toughness on their pvp gear or make it a non effect in bg and we would shine even more just like we do in the 90's.

urgthock

05-11-2010, 05:45 PM

<cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>when they talk about horribly one sided they mean horribly one sided. we're talking people in Avatar/High end 'hard mode' gear against players that have instance gear from SF and T2 gear from TSO.yes a fight where one team has a healer and the other doesn't is terribly one sided unless the healer is so undergeared in comparsion to you that you can burn him down before the other 5 people on his team decimate your dpsers. adn then you gotta hope and pray it's not a shaman with banewarding.of course you can negate that all with made groups. but again for blue servers, most these guys have no interest in pvping, or learning to pvp. they just want the match over quick, get thier token, and jump into another match, and so on, until they get enough tokens to get the gear.you probably wouldn't stumble across this problem if BG gear was restricted to BGs. cause then only people that wanted to play them would do them.but considering there's only what, 1 pvp server? the others shut down/merged for lack of population...I bet without a pve incentive they would have died as quickly as the majdul arena did.</blockquote>Finally someone gets it! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Notsovilepriest

05-11-2010, 05:56 PM

<cite>urgthock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>when they talk about horribly one sided they mean horribly one sided. we're talking people in Avatar/High end 'hard mode' gear against players that have instance gear from SF and T2 gear from TSO.yes a fight where one team has a healer and the other doesn't is terribly one sided unless the healer is so undergeared in comparsion to you that you can burn him down before the other 5 people on his team decimate your dpsers. adn then you gotta hope and pray it's not a shaman with banewarding.of course you can negate that all with made groups. but again for blue servers, most these guys have no interest in pvping, or learning to pvp. they just want the match over quick, get thier token, and jump into another match, and so on, until they get enough tokens to get the gear.you probably wouldn't stumble across this problem if BG gear was restricted to BGs. cause then only people that wanted to play them would do them.but considering there's only what, 1 pvp server? the others shut down/merged for lack of population...I bet without a pve incentive they would have died as quickly as the majdul arena did.</blockquote>Finally someone gets it! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>How does he "get it"? He is suggesting a cowards way out is the right anwser

Crismorn

05-11-2010, 05:59 PM

<cite>urgthock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>when they talk about horribly one sided they mean horribly one sided. we're talking people in Avatar/High end 'hard mode' gear against players that have instance gear from SF and T2 gear from TSO.yes a fight where one team has a healer and the other doesn't is terribly one sided unless the healer is so undergeared in comparsion to you that you can burn him down before the other 5 people on his team decimate your dpsers. adn then you gotta hope and pray it's not a shaman with banewarding.of course you can negate that all with made groups. but again for blue servers, most these guys have no interest in pvping, or learning to pvp. they just want the match over quick, get thier token, and jump into another match, and so on, until they get enough tokens to get the gear.you probably wouldn't stumble across this problem if BG gear was restricted to BGs. cause then only people that wanted to play them would do them.but considering there's only what, 1 pvp server? the others shut down/merged for lack of population...I bet without a pve incentive they would have died as quickly as the majdul arena did.</blockquote>Finally someone gets it! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>The best part is how you ruin the gameplay of everyone else around you without little to no care.I'm also guessing that you do pve instances this way and raid this way as well, which would explain alot

urgthock

05-11-2010, 06:22 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>urgthock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>when they talk about horribly one sided they mean horribly one sided. we're talking people in Avatar/High end 'hard mode' gear against players that have instance gear from SF and T2 gear from TSO.yes a fight where one team has a healer and the other doesn't is terribly one sided unless the healer is so undergeared in comparsion to you that you can burn him down before the other 5 people on his team decimate your dpsers. adn then you gotta hope and pray it's not a shaman with banewarding.of course you can negate that all with made groups. but again for blue servers, most these guys have no interest in pvping, or learning to pvp. they just want the match over quick, get thier token, and jump into another match, and so on, until they get enough tokens to get the gear.you probably wouldn't stumble across this problem if BG gear was restricted to BGs. cause then only people that wanted to play them would do them.but considering there's only what, 1 pvp server? the others shut down/merged for lack of population...I bet without a pve incentive they would have died as quickly as the majdul arena did.</blockquote>Finally someone gets it! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>How does he "get it"? He is suggesting a cowards way out is the right anwser</blockquote>He gets that most people on a PvE server aren't really all that interested in PvPing. They just want the nice BG gear as quickly as possible. If the BG gear was only usable in Battlegrounds, hardly anyone would be playing in them.

urgthock

05-11-2010, 06:26 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>urgthock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>when they talk about horribly one sided they mean horribly one sided. we're talking people in Avatar/High end 'hard mode' gear against players that have instance gear from SF and T2 gear from TSO.yes a fight where one team has a healer and the other doesn't is terribly one sided unless the healer is so undergeared in comparsion to you that you can burn him down before the other 5 people on his team decimate your dpsers. adn then you gotta hope and pray it's not a shaman with banewarding.of course you can negate that all with made groups. but again for blue servers, most these guys have no interest in pvping, or learning to pvp. they just want the match over quick, get thier token, and jump into another match, and so on, until they get enough tokens to get the gear.you probably wouldn't stumble across this problem if BG gear was restricted to BGs. cause then only people that wanted to play them would do them.but considering there's only what, 1 pvp server? the others shut down/merged for lack of population...I bet without a pve incentive they would have died as quickly as the majdul arena did.</blockquote>Finally someone gets it! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>The best part is how you ruin the gameplay of everyone else around you without little to no care.I'm also guessing that you do pve instances this way and raid this way as well, which would explain alot</blockquote>Due to my family situation I have actually not played much at all the last 2 months. As a matter of fact I hardly even talk (type) while online lately and have only soloed the last few months. So no, I don't raid or even pve instance at all lately. That explains exactly what to you?Juding from your recent posts, you apparently have some severe emotional problems arising from your narcissism that are prompting you to make wild assumptions about things and speak as though you were an expert on every subject there is. Seek help quickly.

Crismorn

05-11-2010, 06:35 PM

I'm not the one crying about gear

Notsovilepriest

05-11-2010, 06:49 PM

<cite>urgthock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>urgthock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>when they talk about horribly one sided they mean horribly one sided. we're talking people in Avatar/High end 'hard mode' gear against players that have instance gear from SF and T2 gear from TSO.yes a fight where one team has a healer and the other doesn't is terribly one sided unless the healer is so undergeared in comparsion to you that you can burn him down before the other 5 people on his team decimate your dpsers. adn then you gotta hope and pray it's not a shaman with banewarding.of course you can negate that all with made groups. but again for blue servers, most these guys have no interest in pvping, or learning to pvp. they just want the match over quick, get thier token, and jump into another match, and so on, until they get enough tokens to get the gear.you probably wouldn't stumble across this problem if BG gear was restricted to BGs. cause then only people that wanted to play them would do them.but considering there's only what, 1 pvp server? the others shut down/merged for lack of population...I bet without a pve incentive they would have died as quickly as the majdul arena did.</blockquote>Finally someone gets it! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>How does he "get it"? He is suggesting a cowards way out is the right anwser</blockquote>He gets that most people on a PvE server aren't really all that interested in PvPing. They just want the nice BG gear as quickly as possible. If the BG gear was only usable in Battlegrounds, hardly anyone would be playing in them.</blockquote>Stop talking for the masses, Have you asked them? Most BG gear is crap outside and inside BGs

Umub

05-11-2010, 07:12 PM

**** He gets that most people on a PvE server aren't really all that interested in PvPing. They just want the nice BG gear as quickly as possible. If the BG gear was only usable in Battlegrounds, hardly anyone would be playing in them. ****I come from a PVE server and I too hate AFKers, botters, two-boxers, etc. But I think you are really mistaken. I agree that most people on PVE servers don't care about PVP. However, I absolutely disagree that there are masses of them trying to get BG armour for PVE play. In my guild there are only 5 or 6 people that do BGs. None are AFKers and they all play because its FUN. It's fun despite the AFKers, and people that quit trying once they get behind. It's fun even though you get steamrolled sometimes by another group. They do work to get tokens for BG armor, but it is so they will be better in BGs.In reality, the PVP jewelry, minus the PVP/BG only procs is just on par with the Legendary instance jewelry I have. The PVP armor is OK and I do use the chest piece and gloves in PVE. But they are only marginally better than the T9 Legendary stuff I have. Certainly not worth the effort and time it took me to get them for PVE play. They are worth the time and effort for PVP play though.I think a discussion about what to do to make things harder for AFKers/botters is a good thing. But laying blame on PVE servers just misses the point.

Crismorn

05-11-2010, 07:25 PM

The biggest issue with BG's is how many players have played with the same few people for a very long time for either heroic or raid content and they talk themselves up because they simply do not know any better.Once those players go into BG's and start playing against good/average players and they get owned repeatedly they enter a state of denial, where they cannot possibly be losing due to the actual game but it must be some part of the actual game that is against them, be it gear, lag or whatever excuse they feel like using.

Rainmare

05-11-2010, 07:53 PM

you people talking about the gear not being the reason? show me a piece outside of bg for a tank that has stonewill 2 on it (1250 pt ward) or sparkling shield (1k regening ward)how many peices can you find with fatal lifetap 2?how many earrings with fatal lifetap, or cloaks with fatal lifetap?how many tank items that have power proccing Soulsteal?yes your right, the potency effects and the charm clickies don't work in pve. but fatal lifetap sure as hell does. so does soulstealer. so does sparkling shield. so does stonewill 2.and I haven't even seen raid gear yet with stonewill 2 or fatal lifetap 2. yet I can get those procs grinding the BGs.and that's exactly why people do them. I know five people myself that did it for that reason.all those type procs that DO work in Pve, that you can't find in pve at all or only on raid gear.

Notsovilepriest

05-11-2010, 09:12 PM

<cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>you people talking about the gear not being the reason? show me a piece outside of bg for a tank that has stonewill 2 on it (1250 pt ward) or sparkling shield (1k regening ward)how many peices can you find with fatal lifetap 2?how many earrings with fatal lifetap, or cloaks with fatal lifetap?how many tank items that have power proccing Soulsteal?yes your right, the potency effects and the charm clickies don't work in pve. but fatal lifetap sure as hell does. so does soulstealer. so does sparkling shield. so does stonewill 2.and I haven't even seen raid gear yet with stonewill 2 or fatal lifetap 2. yet I can get those procs grinding the BGs.and that's exactly why people do them. I know five people myself that did it for that reason.all those type procs that DO work in Pve, that you can't find in pve at all or only on raid gear.</blockquote>I suggest you look at the mark guy on test with the instance drops most of the effects you listed are on those items

Neskonlith

05-11-2010, 10:38 PM

<cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>you people talking about the gear not being the reason? show me a piece outside of bg for a tank that has stonewill 2 on it (1250 pt ward) or sparkling shield (1k regening ward)how many peices can you find with fatal lifetap 2?how many earrings with fatal lifetap, or cloaks with fatal lifetap?how many tank items that have power proccing Soulsteal?</blockquote>Why should we need to do all the heavy lifting and thinking for you? Stop being lazy and log into Test, go to Moonfield Hamlet and look up the new pve fabled merchant for the jewelry - there are 49 different pieces that will be on sale, go find the ones you ask about.All sorts of nice procs on pve, some are looking like the "pvp" procs to me:<img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/pvevendor.jpg" />

Rainmare

05-12-2010, 06:49 PM

well okay then.So I see they got some nice stuff on the moonfield people coming with the next update hopefully that can counter the massive procs they gave the BG armor so non PvPers feel forced to play them.and I do instance runs every day and out of the items I see on that list I have seen 2 of them. Gwarthlea's fang, and the hoop of shadowed traversing.So maybe I just have horrible luck, but doing 2-3 instances a day and never seen but 2 of those items tells me that the drop rates were probably insanely low to begin with, hence why some of them I've never even heard of.and my complaint and picks were from personal experience. until that picture there, the only fatal lifetap I'd seen in pve was on raid set boots. never heard of or seen soulsteal. and I guess I'll have to hope for a stonewill 2 item or something that's like sparkling shield.

Avirodar

05-12-2010, 06:56 PM

<cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>well okay then.So I see they got some nice stuff on the moonfield people coming with the next update hopefully that can counter the massive procs they gave the BG armor so non PvPers feel forced to play them.and I do instance runs every day and out of the items I see on that list I have seen 2 of them. Gwarthlea's fang, and the hoop of shadowed traversing.So maybe I just have horrible luck, but doing 2-3 instances a day and never seen but 2 of those items tells me that the drop rates were probably insanely low to begin with, hence why some of them I've never even heard of.and my complaint and picks were from personal experience. until that picture there, the only fatal lifetap I'd seen in pve was on raid set boots. never heard of or seen soulsteal. and I guess I'll have to hope for a stonewill 2 item or something that's like sparkling shield.</blockquote>A lot of the items listed from the merchant on test, have a drop rate of approximately 2%. So your luck is not that horrible.

Wigg

05-12-2010, 07:06 PM

Whoever said this BG armor is not "that good" needs to be slapped around a bit. Take a look at the mage boots. They kick the crap out of the raid ones dps wise, sometimes can even be better than using the upgraded raid boots (by upgraded I mean T1/T2 as I haven't seen a T3 boot to compare) with a red slot on them.T2 boots have about the same exact stats as BG boots but a small power proc.BG boots are missing the power proc but get pestilential rain proc (1896 dmg to the encounter).

Roslyn

05-12-2010, 07:10 PM

as a lengendary-geared PVE player i'd like to say i'm really sorry so many of you have had such crappy experiences with other PVE people. not all of us are lazy, i do try on my ranger, dirge, and soon a fury. my husband does really well on his inquis. i plan to run a lot of bg's on the fury to get her some 'meantime gear' - and to have fun! botters/afk'ers ruin the fun for me just as much as for PVP'ers. i probably wouldn't run them very often if the gear were not useable in PVE. so, if people really want to kick bluebies out of BG's - that's the way to do it. i do try to win the matches and generally have a good time - even if i'm losing *gasp!*so again, i'm sorry PVE'ers have such a bad name in BGs, but i swear we aren't all horrible wretches.hug?

Crismorn

05-12-2010, 07:15 PM

<cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>well okay then.So I see they got some nice stuff on the moonfield people coming with the next update hopefully that can counter the massive procs they gave the BG armor so non PvPers feel forced to play them.and I do instance runs every day and out of the items I see on that list I have seen 2 of them. Gwarthlea's fang, and the hoop of shadowed traversing.So maybe I just have horrible luck, but doing 2-3 instances a day and never seen but 2 of those items tells me that the drop rates were probably insanely low to begin with, hence why some of them I've never even heard of.and my complaint and picks were from personal experience. until that picture there, the only fatal lifetap I'd seen in pve was on raid set boots. never heard of or seen soulsteal. and I guess I'll have to hope for a stonewill 2 item or something that's like sparkling shield.</blockquote>LOL, the procs are terrible vs raid gear.

Notsovilepriest

05-12-2010, 07:17 PM

<cite>Wraths wrote:</cite><blockquote>Whoever said this BG armor is not "that good" needs to be slapped around a bit. Take a look at the mage boots. They kick the crap out of the raid ones dps wise, sometimes can even be better than using the upgraded raid boots (by upgraded I mean T1/T2 as I haven't seen a T3 boot to compare) with a red slot on them.T2 boots have about the same exact stats as BG boots but a small power proc.BG boots are missing the power proc but get pestilential rain proc (1896 dmg to the encounter).</blockquote>Gratz on finding 1 piece that is actually better than the raid counterpart. You can't just select the oddity out of a collection and try to claim that as a norm. Most of it are complete and utter crap and only those who don't raid or like to do instances use the BG gear.Also, about the moonfield items. Those items come out of the instances already, they are just rare.

Wigg

05-12-2010, 10:18 PM

Like you just said.. better than the RAID counterpart. I raid full time on BB and nothing for my main is actually better in BG gear than my raid sets for PVE. What I was pointing out was the fact that for gearing alts, (considering I have 6 in that range) you really cant complain. It's "mostly" better than the legendary lvl 90 gear so all in all, its worth getting on those characters that aren't your main or dkp alts.For the arguement though, I just did 9 BG matches. 2 at 90 and 7 on my warlock in the 80s. The 2 matches I lost total were not because of "bluebies," or even botters, It was people who didnt know how to play their class in general. We had a healer from Nagy who healed less than my warlock. The other one i lost was the x4 and that was just a coin toss on the other team just grabbed a couple towers quicker (1501 to 1396).

Malvin

05-13-2010, 04:58 PM

To get a bit back on topic, here is the sum of my experience. When BGs came out I was level 85ish or so, did them non stop up until 90 and had a blast. I killed, got killed, was able to play a role etc. Loved it. When I hit 90, total different story.The delta between the newb and the experienced at 90 is far to great. Certainly the newb doesn't expect to 'dominate' or be 'awesome' but there is a general expectation that you will be able to actually play and have some kind of effect. That is not the case in level 90 BGs. You run across players who quite simply can 1 shot you, they are basically a lawn mower and you are the grass. That is no fun. You run across players who will dive into 5 to 10 enemies and not get killed. I've seen half the raid focus on 1 player and not be able to kill them. Note, this player is SOLO!!!! And yes, it's more than just the zerker with the heal proc.The end result of all this is that at level 90, it's just plain not fun. Quite simply the gear and abilities need to be normalized to make the delta between the players not so great. Until that happens I think that a large portion of your player base is not going to partake in the BGs or stop playing them once they get their tokens.For me personally, I have 11 more bottles to go and I'm done with them.

Tehom

05-13-2010, 05:19 PM

Yeah, the 80-89 bracket is a totally different animal than the level 90 ones, since generally only a few infrequent alts from pvp servers have any sort of toughness. When you run into one of those guys, they usually dominate the matches they're in, but otherwise it's a lot closer to what the level 90 ones were like before the resist change - high damage, fairly fast paced.In the 90s most people are pretty well geared between raid gear or pvp gear, so casuals who have neither just can't really accomplish much - they'll neither be able to scratch tough players in specific classes nor survive well-geared scouts/fighters.

Armironhead

05-13-2010, 05:37 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TuinalOfTheNexus wrote:</cite><blockquote>If there was some form of stratification it would help.I mean, the majority of matches are ridiculously one-sided. If casual people are finding time and time again that they're hopelessly outgeared/matched then it's hard to blame them for just taking a 10 min afk. The fact also that Ganak and Smugglers penalise you for trying and still losing (since the game takes longer), doesn't help matters.It would maybes be a good thing if they implemented some kind of ranking based on wins/losses, which would let hardcore players progress to higher ranked BGs with more tokens as an incentive, but also have lower ranked ones that let casual players participate without facing hardcore PvE raiders or PvPers.</blockquote>It's extremely easy to blame them, what are you talking about. If you aren't out there putting any effort into the match, you aren't learning anything and you will continue to fail as a BG/PvP player. The best way to learn in BG/PvP is trial by fire as much as it stinks, even if you are undergeared. Then when you can finally do decent undergeared, you will be a formitable player with decent/good gear. If you opt to just afk, you are cheating yourself and your team</blockquote>Most matches are decided the moment that the bg is formed. An individual player, no matter how competent, simply cannot overcome the gross imbalances that come about from such things as premade v. pug; healers v. no healers, etc. . . Telling people that it is their fault because they dont try is just silly. Players have no control over the whims of the matchmaker or the imbalances in the classes and there is simply no amount of playing that is going allow the players to learn mystical techniques to overcome the inherently poor bg game design.

Seiffil

05-13-2010, 08:14 PM

<cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote>Most matches are decided the moment that the bg is formed. An individual player, no matter how competent, simply cannot overcome the gross imbalances that come about from such things as premade v. pug; healers v. no healers, etc. . . Telling people that it is their fault because they dont try is just silly. Players have no control over the whims of the matchmaker or the imbalances in the classes and there is simply no amount of playing that is going allow the players to learn mystical techniques to overcome the inherently poor bg game design.</blockquote>That's not true at all. Granted many times premades win out because they can coordinate better then pugs generally, but what you're basically saying is that if a premade gets matched up against a pug, the pug may as well quit. I've beaten premades when I've been in a completely random pug. I've been in premades that lost when going up against a pug because some of the people decided even though it's a premade, they still want to go and do their own thing. No, we don't have control over the matchmaker, sometimes the matches aren't fair. Sometimes, however, you win a match that you probably should have had no chance at winning. Telling someone it is their fault because they don't try is 100% correct. If they actually try and they lose, hey you gave it a shot. If they just go in run around in circles being useless, or give up because oh no, we don't have a healer, it's still 100% their fault when they lose.I don't doubt some of those people just look for the chance to convince a group, we don't have a shot, let's all go afk. The matchmaker isn't perfect, it can't only match up premade vs premade and PUG vs PUG because some of those, probably premade especially may take longer to finally go off. If you force it to wait til a group has 1 healer, someone's bound to go man that's horrible, they got an inquisitor and we got this lousy fury, the matchmaker is broken.There are imbalances between classes, and honestly that's as much an issue in PVE as it is in BG/PVP probably. While some of them do need to be fixed, that's hardly a reason to give up. I've seen some people who are in what others would call a poor class that can do pretty well.While you also go on to say that competing in those lopsided matches hardly grants them the ability to learn how to improve themselves, it's also equally true that just by giving up by default, and not even trying, that they won't learn a thing about what they should be doing, or what options they may have had.

Crismorn

05-13-2010, 08:16 PM

<cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TuinalOfTheNexus wrote:</cite><blockquote>If there was some form of stratification it would help.I mean, the majority of matches are ridiculously one-sided. If casual people are finding time and time again that they're hopelessly outgeared/matched then it's hard to blame them for just taking a 10 min afk. The fact also that Ganak and Smugglers penalise you for trying and still losing (since the game takes longer), doesn't help matters.It would maybes be a good thing if they implemented some kind of ranking based on wins/losses, which would let hardcore players progress to higher ranked BGs with more tokens as an incentive, but also have lower ranked ones that let casual players participate without facing hardcore PvE raiders or PvPers.</blockquote>It's extremely easy to blame them, what are you talking about. If you aren't out there putting any effort into the match, you aren't learning anything and you will continue to fail as a BG/PvP player. The best way to learn in BG/PvP is trial by fire as much as it stinks, even if you are undergeared. Then when you can finally do decent undergeared, you will be a formitable player with decent/good gear. If you opt to just afk, you are cheating yourself and your team</blockquote>Most matches are decided the moment that the bg is formed. An individual player, no matter how competent, simply cannot overcome the gross imbalances that come about from such things as premade v. pug; healers v. no healers, etc. . . Telling people that it is their fault because they dont try is just silly. Players have no control over the whims of the matchmaker or the imbalances in the classes and there is simply no amount of playing that is going allow the players to learn mystical techniques to overcome the inherently poor bg game design.</blockquote>Complete bs.You keep telling yourself that though, every terrible player needs their excuse. Hold onto it tightly

Nazreen

05-14-2010, 02:04 PM

I had my first tour of bg last night and even though I got ganked by a little gnome assassin it was a blast. I'm not geared very well, and honestly I still have a ton to learn about playing my troubie but I try my best anyway. At first I was running around like a chicken with my head cut off, because I had no clue what to do really, but I soon started following my team mates and helping them. I kinda thought everyone, for the most part was running around like a chicken with their heads cut off. I couldn't imagine trying to play a healer in BG, and completely understand why there are so few of them. I agree that bg gear should be pvp only but on the other hand I also think if every piece was completely useless, you'd have far less players. Longer wait time, and longer and longer to start the games until you're sitting there... waiting... an hour...... or more... Dunno but that's kinda what I think would happen. I've heard some people say the gear sucks pve and others say its some of the better gear they can get without raiding. Personally, my set I am working towards for bg only, I hadn't intended it for pve. I don't know what the solution is, I think it's lousy that alot of people are afking, but I also think it's lousy that alot of people jump to conclusions assuming someone is afk, or jumping all over someone else because they don't play a class exactly like you do. Just worry about yourself, and try to have fun with it. I do!

Yimway

05-14-2010, 02:13 PM

<cite>Nazreen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just worry about yourself, and try to have fun with it. I do!</blockquote>By definition, cooperative gameplay places onus on me to pay attention and worry about my team, not just myself.The soloist attitude is already over prevelant on losing teams.

Ralpmet

05-14-2010, 10:32 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TuinalOfTheNexus wrote:</cite><blockquote>If there was some form of stratification it would help.I mean, the majority of matches are ridiculously one-sided. If casual people are finding time and time again that they're hopelessly outgeared/matched then it's hard to blame them for just taking a 10 min afk. The fact also that Ganak and Smugglers penalise you for trying and still losing (since the game takes longer), doesn't help matters.It would maybes be a good thing if they implemented some kind of ranking based on wins/losses, which would let hardcore players progress to higher ranked BGs with more tokens as an incentive, but also have lower ranked ones that let casual players participate without facing hardcore PvE raiders or PvPers.</blockquote>It's extremely easy to blame them, what are you talking about. If you aren't out there putting any effort into the match, you aren't learning anything and you will continue to fail as a BG/PvP player. The best way to learn in BG/PvP is trial by fire as much as it stinks, even if you are undergeared. Then when you can finally do decent undergeared, you will be a formitable player with decent/good gear. If you opt to just afk, you are cheating yourself and your team</blockquote>Most matches are decided the moment that the bg is formed. An individual player, no matter how competent, simply cannot overcome the gross imbalances that come about from such things as premade v. pug; healers v. no healers, etc. . . Telling people that it is their fault because they dont try is just silly. Players have no control over the whims of the matchmaker or the imbalances in the classes and there is simply no amount of playing that is going allow the players to learn mystical techniques to overcome the inherently poor bg game design.</blockquote>Complete bs.You keep telling yourself that though, every terrible player needs their excuse. Hold onto it tightly</blockquote>Yeah that is utter crap. In the last 3 nights I've won 4 klak's where it was no healer on our team vs healer/s on their team. Because everyone was dps and everyone put forth the effort to pick it up when it dropped. When you see no healers on your team and don't put that effort forward then you lose, and it pisses me off because you just wasted my time, I don't want to only get one token from a bg that makes grinding the gear take forever.Latest awesome experience. Please take note of the following things in this picture;1. The SK (who said what he said) did less dps than I, someone who was running out and autoattacking to my death.2. The attitude of the 3 guys who sat in spawn for 2 minutes while I at least forwarded the progression of the map in some way. Way to be courageous team-mates, your participation was greatly appreciated! /sigh<img src="http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/1170/eq2000060.jpg" />