make effects on raid and instance gear pve only [Archive]

Scythien

05-07-2010, 12:58 PM

I'm aware that it's PvP only, but we are talking for use in PvP are we not? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Yes, the PvE gear does have more actual potency on it, but my point was what that what you would gain in that extra potency you lose in Health, Stamima, Resists and Toughness that the BG gear has. Some PvE pieces may well be better than their BG counterparts. It's a case of finding a good balance of the gear and what works best for you. Not just 'nerf pve potency in bg'.

VeraIkonica

05-07-2010, 02:31 PM

I agree nothing should be nerfed, what I am saying is it is clear that SOE does not want battlegrounds gear to be a replacement for PVE gear while doing PVE content hence the PVP only inhibitor on battlegrounds gear and no crit mit. Why then should PVE obtained gear be a replacement for battlegrounds gear while doing battlegrounds content?

Gungo

05-07-2010, 03:07 PM

<cite>VeraIkonica wrote:</cite><blockquote>I agree nothing should be nerfed, what I am saying is it is clear that SOE does not want battlegrounds gear to be a replacement for PVE gear while doing PVE content hence the PVP only inhibitor on battlegrounds gear and no crit mit. Why then should PVE obtained gear be a replacement for battlegrounds gear while doing battlegrounds content?</blockquote>This is easy to answer.Since PVE gear (even raid gear) has no toughness or PVP crit mit. Its is much weaker already in PVP. PVP gear has no crit mit. Which has NO EFFECT on most PVE content. The majority of non raid PVE content doesnt need crit mit.So if PVP/BG had equal stats to PVE gear then PVP/BG gear would be better for PVE because PVP gear is VASTLY easier to acquire. Honestly PVP/BG gear is similar in quality to raid gear. There also is almost no equivilant to most pvp/bg gear from heroic content. The few exceptions are jewerly which comes from excessively rare heroic drops and neck/shoulders due in part to this specific potency tag.Now your question is why should pve gear be usable in BG and the fact is the majority of the time it isnt. In the case of exceptionally high quality raid gear you will see players in bg/pvp using it. But that fact also exists for PVE there are several high quality BG/PVP items that although they lack crit mit and although they even have effects like potency that is unusable in pve players still use them, because they are better then what they can get and acquire. Furthermore with the includsion of better and better quality bg/pvp gear (read season 1 gear). This balance becomes even more eskewed. The fact is BG gear is better then all but high end raid gear. And even then if you see a player in nothing but high end raid gear he will get eaten alive because of his lack of toughness/pvpcrit mit. Finally there is no heroic pve gear that competes w battlegrounds. The only competition comes from raid gear and even then as bg gear gets better I will likely find additional items to replace w Bg gear.

StaticLex

05-07-2010, 04:23 PM

I have a bunch of T9 PVE raid gear and I can't quite tell if it's better than the fabled toughness gear for running BGs. I'm hoping the toughness makes it completely worth using..

VeraIkonica

05-07-2010, 04:47 PM

Also BG gear being VASTLY easier to get is not true, just ask someone on the EURO servers. but...but.. you can just go afk and get 1 token per match. Yeah I have heard that worn out line plenty since BG's started but guess what raid loot is as easy as buying loot rights. and we all know how hard it is to get plat. The point about bg gear being better than heroic gear is certainly valid so maybe making procs also pvp or pve only might even it out.

Neskonlith

05-07-2010, 04:57 PM

<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote>The fact is BG gear is better then all but high end raid gear. And even then if you see a player in nothing but high end raid gear he will get eaten alive because of his lack of toughness/pvpcrit mit. Finally there is no heroic pve gear that competes w battlegrounds. The only competition comes from raid gear and even then as bg gear gets better I will likely find additional items to replace w Bg gear.</blockquote>What raider would be dumb enough to wear a full raid set, besides an obviously OP class that can afford to sacrifice more Toughness than others? There are key items that make a significant difference, where you can easily sacrifice a little Toughness to gain a larger advantage. Look at some of the restricted pvp items and see for yourself:<img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/pvpshoulders.jpg" /> and then compare it to some of the unrestricted pve options:<img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/gimppveshoulders.jpg" /><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/goodpveshoulders.jpg" />Look at the one neck piece:<img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/pvpneck.jpg" /> and then look at some of the pve options:<img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/pveneck.jpg" />Look at the weapons:<img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/pvpweapons.jpg" /> and then some pve:<img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/pveweapons1.jpg" /><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/pveweapons2.jpg" />It is very easy to sacrifice 50 Toughness to gain 10%+ Potency, or sacrifice a measly 15 Toughness to gain encounter damage procs, or a very large healing proc.Add in the extra advantages of some Red sockets on Blue gear, and you receive an even larger advantage without sacrificing much Toughness at all.

Tehom

05-07-2010, 05:33 PM

I absolutely agree that weapons from BG merchants need to be better and more pvp oriented. There's really no compelling primary/secondary/range slots to use over raid options there.Armor/jewelry is a little more balanced, especially with blue slots coming in - I could see myself using more or less entirely BG stuff in those slots eventually, or close enough. But the weapons/symbols are pretty terrible, especially since it's not a huge secret that certain procs are much higher damage than they should be in pvp.

Gungo

05-07-2010, 05:40 PM

<cite>VeraIkonica wrote:</cite><blockquote>Also BG gear being VASTLY easier to get is not true, just ask someone on the EURO servers. but...but.. you can just go afk and get 1 token per match. Yeah I have heard that worn out line plenty since BG's started but guess what raid loot is as easy as buying loot rights. and we all know how hard it is to get plat. The point about bg gear being better than heroic gear is certainly valid so maybe making procs also pvp or pve only might even it out.</blockquote>On every server but the euro servers that statement is true and soon the english euro servers will be on the american BG queve. So that statement will hold even less weight.The fact you had to pull out broken server mechanics on a handful of servers as the reason BG is hard to get obviously shows you think BG is eaiser to get.

Gungo

05-07-2010, 05:45 PM

<cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote>The fact is BG gear is better then all but high end raid gear. And even then if you see a player in nothing but high end raid gear he will get eaten alive because of his lack of toughness/pvpcrit mit. Finally there is no heroic pve gear that competes w battlegrounds. The only competition comes from raid gear and even then as bg gear gets better I will likely find additional items to replace w Bg gear.</blockquote>What raider would be dumb enough to wear a full raid set, besides an obviously OP class that can afford to sacrifice more Toughness than others? There are key items that make a significant difference, where you can easily sacrifice a little Toughness to gain a larger advantage. Look at some of the restricted pvp items and see for yourself: and then compare it to some of the unrestricted pve options:Look at the one neck piece: and then look at some of the pve options:Look at the weapons: and then some pve:It is very easy to sacrifice 50 Toughness to gain 10%+ Potency, or sacrifice a measly 15 Toughness to gain encounter damage procs, or a very large healing proc.Add in the extra advantages of some Red sockets on Blue gear, and you receive an even larger advantage without sacrificing much Toughness at all.</blockquote>Apparently you forgot to read the post before replying. I alreayd mentioned shoulders and necks, Furthermore those weapons are still better then ANYTHING you can get in heroic content. I also stated there will be a select few HIGH end raid items that will replace BG/PVP gear, just as i currently use a select few BG/PVP items in PVE. And actually out of all those shoulders i would still take the pvp shoulders for pvp instead of any of the pve shoulders (its debateable w the venemous mutation shoulders though).And those encounter procs are no longer as useful or broken in pvp as they were. Sure they were great when it was BUGGED and hitting people across the zone Or when they would proc multiple times off a single aoe auto atk. They are no where near as good as they were on test.

VeraIkonica

05-07-2010, 06:01 PM

That is why I capped VASTLY because I do no believe it is vastly easier to get. I do believe it is easier to get for me because I have fun playing the battlegrounds. If I was as bored with battlegrounds as I am with raiding then it would be a tedious grind and therefore be more difficult.Really though it does not matter how easy either are to get because as I said they they should not disturb the other playstyle.Do you think the best raid gear in the game should come from doing group tradeskill instances? Well I dont think the best pvp gear should come from pve raids.

Yimway

05-07-2010, 06:02 PM

<cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite><blockquote>t is very easy to sacrifice 50 Toughness to gain 10%+ Potency, or sacrifice a measly 15 Toughness to gain encounter damage procs, or a very large healing proc.Add in the extra advantages of some Red sockets on Blue gear, and you receive an even larger advantage without sacrificing much Toughness at all.</blockquote>Great post, just one minor issue.After testing, pve raid gear crit mit is more effective than toughness because the max crit mit provided by toughness is too low.The abilitiy to run 100% crit mit is much more survivable than running 600 toughness with the 60% crit mit provided by it.Not to mention all the raw +mit bonuses on pve raid gear that makes the physical mit on pvp gear severely lacking.So, running pve raid gear with 100% crit mit, 50 Crit bonus, 40 Potency, and 15k in every spell resists makes me far more powerful than running the pvp gear available in most of my slots.If 600 toughness (the 90 cap) provided 100 crit mit, then we'd have some interesting decisions to make.

VeraIkonica

05-07-2010, 06:08 PM

So which is it?Does crit mit bonuses on raid gear apply in PVP or not?

Yimway

05-07-2010, 06:13 PM

<cite>VeraIkonica wrote:</cite><blockquote>So which is it?Does crit mit bonuses on raid gear apply in PVP or not?</blockquote>Yes.

Tehom

05-07-2010, 06:24 PM

I'm pretty sure it does not. At least they've said it hasn't, and I've seen no evidence that it does.

Neskonlith

05-07-2010, 06:26 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>After testing, pve raid gear crit mit is more effective than toughness because the max crit mit provided by toughness is too low.The abilitiy to run 100% crit mit is much more survivable than running 600 toughness with the 60% crit mit provided by it.Not to mention all the raw +mit bonuses on pve raid gear that makes the physical mit on pvp gear severely lacking.So, running pve raid gear with 100% crit mit, 50 Crit bonus, 40 Potency, and 15k in every spell resists makes me far more powerful than running the pvp gear available in most of my slots.If 600 toughness (the 90 cap) provided 100 crit mit, then we'd have some interesting decisions to make.</blockquote>Well, what an interesting turn of events!In open-pvp prior to TSO gear revamp, raiders easily dominated the majority of the contests and many casual players eventually gave up the effort as a lost cause since the gear gap was too wide.I wonder how BeeGees will end up as more unrestricted raid gear replaces restricted pvp pieces.

Yimway

05-07-2010, 06:59 PM

<cite>Chath@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm pretty sure it does not. At least they've said it hasn't, and I've seen no evidence that it does.</blockquote>Agreed, its difficult to prove.All I can say is I parse less incoming damage vs the same players wearing just my pve crit mit gear than wearing complete sets of BG toughness gear.I infer from that fact, that the pve crit mitigation must be applying. As I can see no other effect/stat on the gear to show the resulted mitigation of incoming damage.

Tehom

05-07-2010, 07:13 PM

I would personally think that it's a function of resists and mitigation more than crit mit. It's not unreasonable to think that having like 18k resists everywhere and nearly capped physical mit would be a much larger swing than toughness and pvp crit mit, which is also a big problem.With 100 crit mit, it should be pretty difficult for most players to ever crit on you unless they're well geared. They'd need a minimum of 50 crit bonus to ever get a crit, and 70 if they're enchanters/crusaders. I just haven't seen this happen much, myself.

Crismorn

05-07-2010, 07:19 PM

First of all I do not raid.But not allowing raid gear into bg's would be a huge mistake and punish players for spending a great deal of time and effort obtaining those items.What I would like to see is the higher end raid gear having altered version as future BG gear, make half of the stats/abilities work in pve and let all of it work inside of bg's and have toughness.Make them very expensive to aquire to offset the platinum that would have been lost through learning raid encounters such as 100rum/100gears/100ganak tokens/100plat per piece.Doing this would still keep raid gear competitive just without the toughness, so raiders would have to do bg's if they wanted the very best BG gear and it would also allow those who only do bg's a chance to aquire the best gear to close any possible gear gaps from raid content.In short.Make better bg gear, make it harder/expensive to get so that there are more gear choices for everyone.

TuinalOfTheNexus

05-07-2010, 07:58 PM

It's not about toughness and crit mit. The 40% damage reduction a full toughness set gets you is trivial compared to the stun/stifle/fear immunities, ward procs, heal procs, torrent procs, etc. a full set of high end PvE gear gets you.If you look at many PvE items powerful in PvP, e.g. Ring of Repulsion, Faded Black Hood, or, in fact, most items that proc wards and heals, there aren't equivalent PvP items available on PvE servers. Similarly, the most powerful PvP DPS proc, Torrent, is only on PvE items.I think the question at the heart of it is should hardcore PvE raiders have a significant PvP advantage?

Edavi

05-07-2010, 08:04 PM

NO!I know what you are getting at here, but I dont want them to take you seriously!The solution is NOT to seperate PVP and PVE gear even MORE!God you are all killing us on the PVP server, where our PVP gear that we earn fighting is already trivial in PVE! The fact of the matter is, the PVP dev doesnt stand up for himself. He is really just a Dev, who got assigned to nagafen, and his job isnt to make special accomodations for the PVP server, its to explain to the PVPers the changes that are being made and how those changes will effect us.Like toughness.. it is NOT a good idea, it is MISERABLE to seperate the PVP gear and PVE gear, I have to carry around extra gear, I realize you PVErs do not, you just put ur crap in the bank til u wana BG. I dont have that luxury, I fight people where I fight mobs! But, the devs didnt want the blue servers getting gear in BGs and using them in PVE, so, they told olithin or whatever his name is, and that is that. I hope if he is worth his paycheck he doesnt like that change, but has to go along with it cuz thats what the PVE devs want. UHG! its a theory.

Crismorn

05-07-2010, 08:39 PM

between KoS and start of SF I had 3 seperate sets of gear depending on what i was doing.

Armawk

05-07-2010, 08:44 PM

OP, I do not think you understand the point of battlegrounds at all. A well geared character should be able to walk in and do well in battlegrounds. You are not supposed to HAVE to have BG gear in order tto participate, the whole POINT is that you can play it hardcore or casually and still have fun. The gears stats and effects are already adjusted for PvP anyway..The reasons for not letting BG reward gear be better than good (it is good gear, better than tier one mark gear for instance) outside is to stop BGs being shoved at people who dont want to play it. That makes perfect sense. Someone who plays BG enough to get all this gear is evidently enjopying BG anyway so whats the problem?

Sydares

05-08-2010, 01:10 AM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>First of all I do not raid.</blockquote>Second of all, nice avatar gear.

Avirodar

05-08-2010, 03:09 AM

<cite>Sydares wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>First of all I do not raid.</blockquote>Second of all, nice avatar gear.</blockquote>Third of all, because Avatar gear comes from this expansion, right? Oh, wait...With how hard they nerfed almost all T8 Avatar gear, bringing it up does not make much of a point.

Sydares

05-08-2010, 03:50 AM

<cite>Avirodar@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Third of all, because Avatar gear comes from this expansion, right? Oh, wait...</blockquote>Never said it did. But if you're claiming TSO gear is irrelevant, I lawl hard.

Crismorn

05-08-2010, 04:24 AM

<cite>Sydares wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>First of all I do not raid.</blockquote>Second of all, nice avatar gear.</blockquote>Sorry, I have not been a member of a raiding guild since Sept. "I think"I have not raided SF and fail to understand how my previous tier gear has any bearing on that

Crismorn

05-08-2010, 04:26 AM

<cite>Sydares wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Avirodar@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Third of all, because Avatar gear comes from this expansion, right? Oh, wait...</blockquote>Never said it did. But if you're claiming TSO gear is irrelevant, I lawl hard.</blockquote>I would use SF raid aquired charms if I had access to them

tullebukk

05-08-2010, 09:37 AM

I actually dont think toughness is doing enough for me in BG to replace my PvE gear for it. Might be cause of the completely lack of good priest gear on the BG merchant this xpac, but it still doesnt change the first fact.I wear the total of 2 pieces in Bgs now with toughness, my BP and my gloves. Ive had the whole set on, but I cant even notice any change at all. So, atleast for my part; Unless they make any changes to how toughness work, or actually make it work at all.. Then youll always find ppl with pve gear in BGs <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Valind

05-08-2010, 12:05 PM

<cite>Kaily@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ive had the whole set on, but I cant even notice any change at all.</blockquote>I've had 3 people now say this to me. Im sensing a pattern...

Edavi

05-08-2010, 02:09 PM

<cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote>OP, I do not think you understand the point of battlegrounds at all. A well geared character should be able to walk in and do well in battlegrounds. You are not supposed to HAVE to have BG gear in order tto participate, the whole POINT is that you can play it hardcore or casually and still have fun. The gears stats and effects are already adjusted for PvP anyway..The reasons for not letting BG reward gear be better than good (it is good gear, better than tier one mark gear for instance) outside is to stop BGs being shoved at people who dont want to play it. That makes perfect sense. Someone who plays BG enough to get all this gear is evidently enjopying BG anyway so whats the problem?</blockquote>!!! THIS!!!BUT, here is the problem.. what if u play ona PVP server!?! Were suposed to be able to use our super PVE gear in PVP but not the other way around?When we go outside, people try to kill us! if we go outside in our crappy PVP gear, the mobs kill us. If we go out in our PVE gear, the people out hunting ppl kill us. I hate the seperation so so so much!

Brynhild

05-08-2010, 06:18 PM

Like i said before just make the BG gear copies of the raid gear with the same procs, same jewelry, make potency work in PVE also, the only difference should be crit mit vs potency.Easy solution. That way raiders or pvpers have access to the same gear, and using raid armor should result in dying faster in PVP and using PVP armor should result in dying faster in raids, but other than that is the same.Too bad we can't have it like it was in TSO :/

VeraIkonica

05-09-2010, 11:35 AM

<cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote>OP, I do not think you understand the point of battlegrounds at all. A well geared character should be able to walk in and do well in battlegrounds. You are not supposed to HAVE to have BG gear in order tto participate, the whole POINT is that you can play it hardcore or casually and still have fun. The gears stats and effects are already adjusted for PvP anyway..The reasons for not letting BG reward gear be better than good (it is good gear, better than tier one mark gear for instance) outside is to stop BGs being shoved at people who dont want to play it. That makes perfect sense. Someone who plays BG enough to get all this gear is evidently enjopying BG anyway so whats the problem?</blockquote>point one: nor should should you be given an advantage for not participating.point two: The reasons for not letting RAID reward gear be better than good in Battlegrounds is to stop RAIDING being shoved at people who dont want to raid.

Gungo

05-09-2010, 03:13 PM

<cite>VeraIkonica wrote:</cite><blockquote>That is why I capped VASTLY because I do no believe it is vastly easier to get. I do believe it is easier to get for me because I have fun playing the battlegrounds. If I was as bored with battlegrounds as I am with raiding then it would be a tedious grind and therefore be more difficult.Really though it does not matter how easy either are to get because as I said they they should not disturb the other playstyle.Do you think the best raid gear in the game should come from doing group tradeskill instances? Well I dont think the best pvp gear should come from pve raids.</blockquote>Do you think the best heroic gear in the game should come from battlegrounds/pvp?Because it already does.

VeraIkonica

05-10-2010, 10:13 AM

<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote>Do you think the best heroic gear in the game should come from battlegrounds/pvp?Because it already does. </blockquote>No I do not think the best heroic gear should come from battlegrounds. They could make the BG gear appearence only in pve for all I care, but if they did let the same be done for pve gear while in battlegrounds and make people buy mastercrafted pvp gear to sart off in Battlegrounds.

Shorcon

05-10-2010, 06:21 PM

I have posted a similar thread to bring to light that with battlegrounds being so new to the game that without drawing back on pve items usable in bg that there would be 0 chance to get an accurate asessment of what is and isn't overpowered. It doesn't seem to me that the dev's believe this to be true. I just wish the game would be a little less chaotic this early on. The use of pvp items was supposed to be taken out of the bg back in the very begining. This wasn't the case. They made pvp procs null and void but still allowed fabled gear to carry toughness in bg. This over time has been shadowed as it isnt a major OP advantage. It seems to me that the dev's dont want a clear image of bg within the community. To me this creates a feeling of mistrust throught the bg game. There are still unkillable players in bg. There are still many issues that we as players can't say one way or the other if its cheat or OP. There is way to much information to asess. Many people bashed me when I brought this to light early on. I am sure it was the people who had obtained some form of pve OP itemization and didnt want to loose the advantage. I have always been for the success of bg and my feelings on this are still the same. Take all pve content out of bg. Slowly implament pve items back into bg and clearly list new usable items on update notes. This would allow us, the players to accuratly assess these items.

StaticLex

05-10-2010, 09:32 PM

make effects on raid and instance gear pve onlyI have no problem with this, I seem to get owned the worst when I use SF hardmode gear in BGs over toughness gear anyway. My heals are shafted because of it, but hey.. at least I last a minute or two instead of 9 seconds.

Crismorn

05-10-2010, 09:45 PM

<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>VeraIkonica wrote:</cite><blockquote>That is why I capped VASTLY because I do no believe it is vastly easier to get. I do believe it is easier to get for me because I have fun playing the battlegrounds. If I was as bored with battlegrounds as I am with raiding then it would be a tedious grind and therefore be more difficult.Really though it does not matter how easy either are to get because as I said they they should not disturb the other playstyle.Do you think the best raid gear in the game should come from doing group tradeskill instances? Well I dont think the best pvp gear should come from pve raids.</blockquote>Do you think the best heroic gear in the game should come from battlegrounds/pvp?Because it already does. </blockquote>The best gear for heroic zones is raid gear as it always has been.

alabama

05-13-2010, 04:38 PM

<cite>VeraIkonica wrote</cite><blockquote>Really though it does not matter how easy either are to get because as I said they they should not disturb the other playstyle.Do you think the best raid gear in the game should come from doing group tradeskill instances? Well I dont think the best pvp gear should come from pve raids.</blockquote>exactly. thank you.

Vlahkmaak

05-14-2010, 01:13 AM

Just becuase care bears screamed and cried and destroyed our earned gear when they came into our world as naked little pvp noobs does not mean we should be working to destroy the gear they earned too. We should be working to reverse the bad policy change of screwing with our proc gear. We could effectivelly format an arguement that the only avatar gear that should not be nerfed is the avatar gear earned on pvp servers (I have none BTW before you scream foul at me) as that is the only truelly earned avatar gear. The carebears won theirs with no real risk unlike the PVP avatar procs earned by our players. However, this is counter productive and defeats the purpose of multiple progressions to gear achievement. Killing scripted mobs on farm status and gearing an alt is no different than gearing up through open world pvp or BGs. We should not ahve a seperate pvp mechanic from PVE we should have multiple progressions to character development like we did with late RoK and TSO. This thread should end and the focus should be put into gear progression form multiple avenues IMO.

Yimway

05-14-2010, 01:13 PM

<cite>Chath@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would personally think that it's a function of resists and mitigation more than crit mit. It's not unreasonable to think that having like 18k resists everywhere and nearly capped physical mit would be a much larger swing than toughness and pvp crit mit, which is also a big problem.With 100 crit mit, it should be pretty difficult for most players to ever crit on you unless they're well geared. They'd need a minimum of 50 crit bonus to ever get a crit, and 70 if they're enchanters/crusaders. I just haven't seen this happen much, myself.</blockquote>Remember thats not how crit mit works, it doesn't prevent them from 'criting' it just maxes the crit = max damage + 1. Crit mit only lowers the crit bonus applied to the hit. If your crit mit exceeds their crit bonus, their 'crits' are just max+1 hits.Thats why more crit mit seems to be more effective than toughness, as toughness lowers the base hit, but still alows significant crit bonus to be applied.Using PVE gear and having 3000 more physical mit, better resists, and 100 crit mit is parsing far more survivable than wearing a full set of pvp gear.

Gungo

05-14-2010, 01:22 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Chath@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would personally think that it's a function of resists and mitigation more than crit mit. It's not unreasonable to think that having like 18k resists everywhere and nearly capped physical mit would be a much larger swing than toughness and pvp crit mit, which is also a big problem.With 100 crit mit, it should be pretty difficult for most players to ever crit on you unless they're well geared. They'd need a minimum of 50 crit bonus to ever get a crit, and 70 if they're enchanters/crusaders. I just haven't seen this happen much, myself.</blockquote>Remember thats not how crit mit works, it doesn't prevent them from 'criting' it just maxes the crit = max damage + 1. Crit mit only lowers the crit bonus applied to the hit. If your crit mit exceeds their crit bonus, their 'crits' are just max+1 hits.Thats why more crit mit seems to be more effective than toughness, as toughness lowers the base hit, but still alows significant crit bonus to be applied.Using PVE gear and having 3000 more physical mit, better resists, and 100 crit mit is parsing far more survivable than wearing a full set of pvp gear.</blockquote>PVE crit mit is not suppose to work on PVP.There is a seperate PVP crit mit that lowers PVP crit bonus.