Blue Adorn confusion

[Edavi]

<p>So there is New pvp gear coming out.  Okay, fine, it still blows in PVE, whatver I cant do anything about that.  But just curious, is it something like... I need to have the t1 boots before i can get the t2 boots? or do the t2 boots just cost more than the t1 boots... I am just trying to figure out if I should buy these legs, or save my tokens til the GU.</p>

[Olihin]

<p>The current equipment does not have blue adornment slots. </p><p>The <span style="color: #ff0000;">first campaign</span> equipment does have blue adornment slots.</p><p>If you wish to use the blue adornments, you will want to purchase the new items.  If you are happy without any of the blue adornments, then you can purchase the current item instead.   In both cases, the TEST-Copy vendors are available for you to see how to budget the tokens you have. </p><p><span style="font-size: large; color: #3366ff;">Olihin</span></p><p>edit: Now called <span style="color: #ff0000;">campaigns</span> for awesomeness!</p>

[Edavi]

<p>No, I got that.. the question im asking is... Do you need the preseason item to buy the season 1 item? or do the season 1 items just cost more tokens.</p><p>I think u may have inadvertanly answered it though</p>

[Rocc]

<p>No its not like T1 > T2. Nothing like that. You purchase with tokens all over again. So if you have the "preseason or existing" BG gear then you spent your tokens for nothing. Because blue adornment gear is better and does not require the previous level 90 BG gear to purchase.</p><p>In short- <strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">STOP SPENDING YOUR TOKENS UNTIL HALAS LAUNCHES!!!!</span></strong></p><p>Tell your guildies and spread the message on your servers.</p>

[Edavi]

<p>That is what I was looking for, thank u Rocc</p><p>Are tehre blue adorn aka season 1 jewelry and weapons too?</p>

[Rijacki]

<p><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The pre-season equipment does not have blue adornment slots. </p><p>The season 1 equipment does have blue adornment slots.</p><p>If you wish to use the blue adornments, you will want to purchase the new items.  If you are happy without any of the blue adornments, then you can purchase the pre-season item instead.   In both cases, the TEST-Copy vendors are available for you to see how to budget the tokens you have. </p><p><span style="font-size: large; color: #3366ff;">Olihin</span></p></blockquote><p>Are crafted items considered pre-season and without adornment slots?</p>

[Olihin]

<p>The crafted items are about were we want to have them remain for the time being. </p><p>In the future we may have a few more available.</p><p><span style="font-size: large; color: #3366ff;">Olihin</span></p>

[Jonaroth]

<p>not being able to upgrade is really lame. that's all.</p>

[Lodor]

<p>What about adding a lvl 90 version scout shield and fighter 2h weapon. There are level 80 versions on the vendors but not lvl 90 ones.</p>

[Edavi]

<p>Is jewelry being upgraded too?</p>

[Sydares]

<p>Not having an upgrade vendor is indeed quite lame.</p>

[Runelaron]

<p><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The current equipment does not have blue adornment slots. </p><p>The <span style="color: #ff0000;">first campaign</span> equipment does have blue adornment slots.</p><p>If you wish to use the blue adornments, you will want to purchase the new items.  If you are happy without any of the blue adornments, then you can purchase the current item instead.   In both cases, the TEST-Copy vendors are available for you to see how to budget the tokens you have. </p><p><span style="font-size: large; color: #3366ff;">Olihin</span></p><p>edit: Now called <span style="color: #ff0000;">campaigns</span> for awesomeness!</p></blockquote><p>My question is, What is the point in keeping the old armor when it only cost 10 more tokens for the new armor. It seems like a waste of vendor space.</p>

[Uskeab]

<p>probably so he can go," lewk bossman at all teh l3vvtz they can chews frum, i do gud job , u gimme moar monies?"</p>

[Arcanias]

<p><cite>Uskeab@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>probably so he can go," lewk bossman at all teh l3vvtz they can chews frum, i do gud job , u gimme moar monies?"</p></blockquote><p>LOL!!!  SOE LISTEN TO YOUR PLAYER BASE, PROGRESSION GEAR FTW!!!  DON'T PUNISH YOUR VETS!!!</p>

[Edavi]

<p>Lol, okay, but what about Jewelry?!</p>

[Runelaron]

<p><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The current equipment does not have blue adornment slots. </p><p>The <span style="color: #ff0000;">first campaign</span> equipment does have blue adornment slots.</p><p>If you wish to use the blue adornments, you will want to purchase the new items.  If you are happy without any of the blue adornments, then you can purchase the current item instead.   In both cases, the TEST-Copy vendors are available for you to see how to budget the tokens you have. </p><p><span style="font-size: large; color: #3366ff;">Olihin</span></p><p>edit: Now called <span style="color: #ff0000;">campaigns</span> for awesomeness!</p></blockquote><p><span style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; color: #444444;"><span style="font-size: medium;">If you are happy without any of the blue adornments, then you can purchase the current item instead. </span></span></p><p>I CANT COMPREHEND HOW THIS MAKES ANY SENSE!? its like not getting the supersize for 1cent more! </p>

[Cantor]

<p><cite>Jonaroth wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>not being able to upgrade is really lame. that's all.</p></blockquote><p>Yep. Add upgrades, Olihin. No more BGs, please. </p>

[Rocc]

<p><cite>Edavi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Lol, okay, but what about Jewelry?!</p></blockquote><p>Sorry, I have not been watching this thread. Yes there are many new items for all tiers. Weapons at level 90 have no upgrades (that I've seen). But thats not to say there wont be by the time Halas goes live. I would recommend you dont buy the jewelry either until that point. Every time I look on testcopy something else has given a guildy disco experience. So just hold on to your tokens for 2 more weeks!</p>

[quetzaqotl]

<p>What a bad decision Olihin how would it make sense for people to buy the considerably less powerful gear for such a small premium?</p><p>Dont you think all the people whou bought the now old bg armor wouldve saved up some tokens to get the better gear?</p><p>This is really lame indeed.</p><p>Would it really take so much effort to add an upgrade path or make it possible to sell your bg armor for tokens at the bg merchant? I mean come on throw us a bone here...</p>

[Araktir]

<p>Yet another time sink, thanks SoE. </p><p>So, I spent DAYS grinding BGs to get some gear.  Now it will be the lesser kind. </p><p>As someone else said, let us sell it off for what we paid, at the very least.</p><p>Some of us have more than one level 90 to gear up.  I don't have the time to spend in BGs needed to acquire it before your next expansion.</p>

[Naggasaki]

<p>This just makes me vomit.</p>

[Snosael]

<p>the pvp servers are slave conscripts to keep BGs from failure.  they knew the only way they could get us in there was to make pvp and bg gear the same.  they know the only way to keep us in there is to force us to regrind every few months.</p><p>we are fekked, get over it, they dont care.</p><p>i think olihin used his soe discont card to buy a Witness protection pack from the station store and had his named changed from Aeralick.</p><p>we have been let down big time.</p>

[Kota]

<p>should i just save my tokens for the second campaign ? or 3rd ? i mean, if i'm only gonna be sporting this gear for 3 months maybe i'll just hold off on it.</p><p>p.s.  pl;z just take the current gear off the merchants so ppl don't accidentally buy it and waste their tokens.</p>

[Sprin]

<p><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The current equipment does not have blue adornment slots. </p><p>The <span style="color: #ff0000;">first campaign</span> equipment does have blue adornment slots.</p><p>If you wish to use the blue adornments, you will want to purchase the new items.  If you are happy without any of the blue adornments, then you can purchase the current item instead.   In both cases, the TEST-Copy vendors are available for you to see how to budget the tokens you have. </p><p><span style="color: #3366ff; font-size: large;">Olihin</span></p><p>edit: Now called <span style="color: #ff0000;">campaigns</span> for awesomeness!</p></blockquote><p>Im sorry, this is epic failure.. so we are goign to have to re-obtain a FULL set of gear every few months? a "first" campaign indicates a "second" and "third" and so on... so by the time we get the new "best" gear, you release "better then the previous best" gear.... and make us sink even more time?  This is the most pathetic attempt of a time sink I've EVER seen from SOE... you start maaking updates like this and I GUARANTEE you will lose accounts..... having to obtain new gear every expansion is of course part of the game, we look forward to that... but this blue adorn stuff should have been on THE CURRENT stuff, not a few months later, having to redo everything just to get it..</p><p>Let me get this straight....   TSO comes out and PVP gear has set bonuses, the set bonuses, are in most cases junk compared to raid gear... raiders still cry like a bunch of sissies... (I was a raider at that time, and I heard it first hand).... so in SF we get shafted on PVP servers and get no set bonuses... raiders still get them... in the form of red adorns... not to mention red adorns that ARENT set bonuses are far superior... so we get a weak version of the "non set bonus" red adorns in the form of "blue adorns" except we have to get an ENTIRE new set of gear to get these lesser junker adorn slots...  </p><p>The stats on this new "First campaign" gear are miniscule and not even worth getting cept for the blue adorns slots...</p><p>Most of the gear has like 5% higher stats, if that... some of which were unchanged completely... yet you want us to sink another couple of months into getting another full set of gear just to have the chance at having junker adorns?  </p><p>Epic Failure Ohlin... epic failure...</p><p>Its nice to see you dont listen to your player base though.. I have yet to see a single person on PVP server in favor of this garbage time sink.... </p>

[Owls]

<p>all i wanna know is, if i "waste" 3 hours of my time to get a full set of BG blue adorn gear, will i still parse the same</p><p>i mean right now i parse the same dps as moors pvp gear i just have a 2k heal parse</p><p>really</p><p>pvp used to be about speed</p><p>now its about who can force quit the game faster and not lose their plat</p><p>when your a monk and you can take a full group, not kill mind you, take the punishment and not die</p><p>why is that fun.... look mom i can handle 10 minutes of full hp and then im gonna go and walk the dog, really, where is the BOOOOOMMMMM son, evak</p><p>thats fun</p><p>its like taking head shots out of counter strike</p><p>you can blast someones face with a fission and hit them for 2k of 24k, really?</p><p>no offence, but that is garbage(*sorry cookie monster) but i dont like it</p>

[Owls]

<p>i dont know if it helps, but seriously, if you are a pvp dev, SMS me and ill go buy you a burger and a cola ill take the 5 dollar hit rather than looking at my 15 dollars fly saying to myself kunark venekor is better than t9 naggy pvp</p>

[TheVekk]

<p>the only real reason i can think of as to why they are adding new gear and not giving upgrades is to keep people pvping or doing the BG's. this way you always have something to work for.</p>

[Snosael]

<p><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The current equipment does not have blue adornment slots. </p><p>The <span style="color: #ff0000;">first campaign</span> equipment does have blue adornment slots.</p><p>If you wish to use the blue adornments, you will want to purchase the new items.  If you are happy without any of the blue adornments, then you can purchase the current item instead.   In both cases, the TEST-Copy vendors are available for you to see how to budget the tokens you have. </p><p><span style="color: #3366ff; font-size: large;">Olihin</span></p><p>edit: Now called <span style="color: #ff0000;">campaigns</span> for awesomeness!</p></blockquote><p>I have to agree with many ppl posting here.  This is very weak.  There needs to be a way to upgrade the BG armor everyone already earned.   Just like shard armor was upgradeable, so should the BG armor. </p><p>also, this First Campaign business...... [Removed for Content]is that??!?!  sounds like you slipped up and are letting us know that we can expect to regrind our armor over and over. </p><p>I dont appreciate your next smug comment either!  who the hell is happy buying the current armor set without blue adornment slots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    maybe some bluebies who want it for appearance, or are you doing this for sony's golden child raiders who cry and cry until they get whatever they want???</p>

[Naggasaki]

<p>The addition of this new gear, without an upgrade path, is ultimately going to destroy open world PvP imo. I was very pleased over the course of this last week or so. Many people were out playing again. I ran into some serious skirmishes. Granted, most people were in FULL BG gear. It would seem that once everyone finished getting their gear they came out of their little hovel. But WAIT.....THERE'S MOAR! You're going to steal the entire open world population yet again so they can get '<strong>BETTER</strong>' gear.</p><p>*edited to be <span style="color: #888888;"><strong>BETTER</strong></span> for lazyness*</p><p>At the same time that you are introducing this crap, you are trying to introduce your 'master plan' to bring back open world PvP? Warfeilds may be fun, but I give it a week and most people will be back in BG's doing the 'master afker' game to get free PVP gear. Olihin, if you seriously take pride in your work, I suggest you go smoke a bowl or something and calm down, rethink what you have done, and FIX IT!</p>

[Alima_Tunare]

<p>Its just very disappointing. I enjoy pvp, but Im a raider on a blue server and its Our guild, so I dont roll on a red server.  Ive spent hours and hours working my toon, learning to pvp with her, adjusting spells and skills to do better. I spent my time being cremated while "they" experimented with us, hoping that one day, once I got my pvp set, Id have a chance.  Now I have it, they're still experimenting, Im still grinding my one token at a time for the most part and now they come out with an upgrade that I have to rebuild.  Normally I might not mind, upgrading is part of the game, always wanting a bit better.  But all this means is Im still the bottom of the barrel in my full set of gear and having to one token it again so that 2 months from now we get to do it all over again....and im still the bottom of the barrel gearwise.</p><p>And yes, I am whining.  Im not asking for nerfs to classes, you have to learn to deal with the skills classes get, Id much rather be fighting people with their skills than a bunch of people with wiffle bats.  I know where to find good pvp, I just dont have the time and money to run two games.  I like that this bit of entertainment has been added to the game I invest in.  I had just hoped that it would reach the point where I improved and got to play with the stuff I earned for a couple of months.  For all the time people have invested in getting this armor, for all the suffering some of them have had to live with in getting it....youd think they could have thrown some blue adorns on the old gear, waited a couple of months and then upgraded. </p>

[Taldier]

<p><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The current equipment does not have blue adornment slots. </p><p>The <span style="color: #ff0000;">first campaign</span> equipment does have blue adornment slots.</p><p>If you wish to use the blue adornments, you will want to purchase the new items.  If you are happy without any of the blue adornments, then you can purchase the current item instead.   In both cases, the TEST-Copy vendors are available for you to see how to budget the tokens you have. </p><p><span style="color: #3366ff; font-size: large;">Olihin</span></p><p>edit: Now called <span style="color: #ff0000;">campaigns</span> for awesomeness!</p></blockquote><p>This is literally the worst post for pvp ever.  There is absolutely no reason to even play the game until soe guarantees that they are not going to keep constantly adding new versions of bg gear to be grinded all over again.</p><p>Pvp players dont need an epic fail minigame grind that never ends.  We want to pick out our gear spec, go earn it, and then ACTUALLY PLAY THE #$@&ING GAME BY GETTING TO PVP WITH IT.</p><p>This isnt a pve server...you dont need to design pvp "content" to keep us entertained.  You just need to develop a functional balanced system for players to fight each other in.</p><p>Stop killing open world pvp by forcing players to keep permanently grinding stupid mini games for gear instead of pvping.</p>

[Cantor]

<p><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Stop killing open world pvp by forcing players to keep permanently grinding stupid mini games for gear instead of pvping.</p></blockquote><p>Yep. Olihin, You are killing Nagafen.</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><span style="color: #ff0000;">The new gear can be bought either by BeeGee or by pvp Tokens - so it is player choice that determines how to buy.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">The new Warfields contest is only a couple days away along with some class balance tweaks, so it is premature to be DOOM and GLOOM without seeing how the casual-pvp players take to it all.</span></p>

[Taldier]

<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">The new gear can be bought either by BeeGee or by pvp Tokens - so it is player choice that determines how to buy.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">The new Warfields contest is only a couple days away along with some class balance tweaks, so it is premature to be DOOM and GLOOM without seeing how the casual-pvp players take to it all.</span></p></blockquote><p>Anyone who can pass a basic economics course (or even the first grade) can see that if you sell the same item at a price of $10 and a price of $100, "choice" is not relevant to your sales.  This comment is as ridiculous as Olihin's statement that players would "choose" to buy worse gear.</p><p>There is no choice involved.  You grind bg tokens doing the dumb minigames until you get the gear or you wont get it unless they stop making new bg gear for people to grind.  I found 10x more open world pvp on venekor while it was so utterly dead that they had to merge it into nagafen.</p><p>And Im trying not to get my hopes up for warfields.  Sounding like its going to be more silly minigame style combat just moved into an open zone.  Their greatest entertainment benefit will just be from bringing more people into a single zone rather than following some script to win a "match".</p>

[Draag]

<p>Seriously lame.</p><p>I like how the dev is all talkie talkie but as soon as it's pointed out how stupid what they are doing is, they act like the thread never existed.</p><p>COMMUNICATE WITH YOUR PLAYERS!!</p><p>Maybe if you could explain or justify your reasoning for basically screwing all the people that have worked their butts off the last 2 months getting gear that is going to be second rate for no good reason...</p><p>Im just saying - how do you expect people to be on board with this nonsense?</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><span style="color: #ff0000;">If we are going to argue economics, explain to me why people pay $200 for a pair of jeans when they can easily get a knock-off set from the same sweatshop for $20?  Seems to me that there are other factors to consider in RL, same as in-game.  </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">If you want to look at numbers, then look at pvp and BeeGee boots when using a stacked group of winners:</span></p><p style="padding-left: 60px;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">BeeGee boots = 45 klak/45 Ganak = 15 wins Klak + 15 wins Ganak.</span></p><p style="padding-left: 60px;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">open-pvp boots = 125 Discord = 4 wins CL, 4 wins Ant +1 writ per WF + 1 extra writ.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Oh oh.  Looks like it will be possible to get <em>more</em> Discord Tokens <em>easier than BeeGees</em> if you have a winning stacked group to farm a single writ per WF zone!</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Oh noes!  Hardcores will once again trivialize an event geared for casuals!  We got no choice!  We got to grind Warfields!</span></p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Draagun wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Maybe if you could explain or justify your reasoning for basically screwing all the people that have worked their butts off the last 2 months getting gear that is going to be second rate for no good reason...</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">It's EverQuest 2, where the questing never stops and change is expected.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Remember those TSO players who had 2000+ Tokens rotting in the bank because they had nothing new to spend it on?  Remember the complaints that there was never anything new, and the gear sucked?</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">SOE listened to those complaints and added in stuff to help keep pvp fresh and still the complaints ramp up.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">What other reasonable Token sink can SOE provide to ease Token inflation?</span></p>

[Taldier]

<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">If we are going to argue economics, explain to me why people pay $200 for a pair of jeans when they can easily get a knock-off set from the same sweatshop for $20?  Seems to me that there are other factors to consider in RL, same as in-game.  </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">If you want to look at numbers, then look at pvp and BeeGee boots when using a stacked group of winners:</span></p><p style="padding-left: 60px;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">BeeGee boots = 45 klak/45 Ganak = 15 wins Klak + 15 wins Ganak.</span></p><p style="padding-left: 60px;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">open-pvp boots = 125 Discord = 4 wins CL, 4 wins Ant +1 writ per WF + 1 extra writ.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Oh oh.  Looks like it will be possible to get <em>more</em> Discord Tokens <em>easier than BeeGees</em> if you have a winning stacked group to farm a single writ per WF zone!</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Oh noes!  Hardcores will once again trivialize an event geared for casuals!  We got no choice!  We got to grind Warfields!</span></p></blockquote><p>If the bg merchant had a 20% of just taking your money and running away that would make sense...people buy things irl from actual known corporations because those suppliers have liability and cant vanish off into the night.  Not sure how thats at all relevant.</p><p>Value of a bg token = the effort required to press the autorun button on your keyboard</p><p>Value of a pvp token = spending hours actively hunting for players to fight in a zone with 10 people in it</p><p>You are comparing pesos to kilograms of gold</p><p>Even taking warfields into account, you are discounting that you cannot run warfields repeatedly as they are a regularly occuring server event.  This means that bg's are still a faster method of gaining tokens even after warfields.</p>

[Cantor]

<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">If we are going to argue economics, explain to me why people pay $200 for a pair of jeans when they can easily get a knock-off set from the same sweatshop for $20?  Seems to me that there are other factors to consider in RL, same as in-game.  </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">If you want to look at numbers, then look at pvp and BeeGee boots when using a stacked group of winners:</span></p><p style="padding-left: 60px;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">BeeGee boots = 45 klak/45 Ganak = 15 wins Klak + 15 wins Ganak.</span></p><p style="padding-left: 60px;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">open-pvp boots = 125 Discord = 4 wins CL, 4 wins Ant +1 writ per WF + 1 extra writ.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Oh oh.  Looks like it will be possible to get <em>more</em> Discord Tokens <em>easier than BeeGees</em> if you have a winning stacked group to farm a single writ per WF zone!</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Oh noes!  Hardcores will once again trivialize an event geared for casuals!  We got no choice!  We got to grind Warfields!</span></p></blockquote><p>So, I only need like 25 Ant and 25 Cl wins if i wanna buy my pvp armor (again). Let's see, 40 min* 50 wf = 2000 min = 33 hours. Oooooooh, its so easy. We got a choice!</p><p>Maybe you dont understand. We dont wanna grind more stuff again. BG or WF, it doesnt matter. It's all the same: a stupid minigame, not open pvp. And of course, we dont wanna grind it, again and again every 2 months. This kind of grinding is killing Nagafen. Where is Open Pvp? Heck, even Kp was better than this.</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Even taking warfields into account, you are discounting that you cannot run warfields repeatedly as they are a regularly occuring server event. </p><p>This means that bg's are still a faster method of gaining tokens even after warfields.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I was comparing honest "win" scenarios - your auto-run exploit for a freebie BeeGee "lose" Token would require 90 cheats.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">At this point, it's hard to definitively criticize Warfields while they aren't even out yet - perhaps they will flop and no casuals will bother to come out and pvp, leaving you all alone to play with yourself.  Again.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Guess we'll just have to wait a couple days and see what happens when GU56 rolls out, and then compare Token farming rates.</span></p>

[Buttcliffe]

<p>One of the most difficult aspects for the developers is trying to meet diverse interests i.e. Keeping lots of different types of people happy and playing the game.</p><p>Different amounts of available play time / different goals / different ideas of fun.</p><p>Some players love the Battle Grounds and keep playing, even when they have all the gear</p><p>Some players will only play until they get all the gear and then see further "grinding" as pointless</p><p>Some don't have a whole lot of time and are still picking up pieces</p><p>Naggy players also see the value in BG gear for Open World PvP</p><p>The devs want to keep some new goals and targets.  bringing in new gear does this.  The gear cannot be too much better otherwise it causes big imbalance, meaning (for example) raided gear also needs a boost.</p><p>If you have the first set of gear you are not going to be at too much of a disadvantage aginst those in the new gear.  It's not that much better. </p><p>To all of the people complaining of the grind.  The whole game is essentially a grind to get better stuff.  Almost everything we do in the game is in order to get better stuff.  If people can easily get the best stuff they think they can get, they will probably be less likely to play.  Complaining of the grind, when we have spent the last 5 years effectively grinding each newly developed level and tier of gear, seems a bit nonsensical.</p><p>As a player who enjoys PvP, I don't really need the glitter of new gear, I just like PvPing.  That's why overall I have found the BG's to be detrimental to Nagafen. because it has drawn PvP out of the Open World, which has always been the best and most exciting.</p><p>I agree with some of the comments about the mini game aspects of BG's and WF's.  A lot of players just want to fight and have Open World PvP.  Hopefully the WF's will offer this too.</p><p>Overall though, the BG's seem to have offered all of the other (non-pvp) servers a new boost and a new buzz.  It's mainly only the Naggy guys that are complaining.</p><p>Another point raised was about BG gear being not so great for PvE.  Well, I agree that it should be this way, otherwise it removes the need to run instances and raid etc.  Each activity needs to have its own unique benefit and reason to exist.</p><p>Battle grounds gear (in my opinion) should be good, but not too great.</p><p>PvP won gear should be better, and harder to gain.</p><p>Fabled Instance gear should be tougher still to gain or cost a lot of tokens</p><p>Raided gear by nature of needing 24 coordinated people (and many people rolling on the same items) is harder still to gain, and should be the best gear.</p><p>It seems that we are pretty close to this.</p><p>The thing missing at the moment, is a good volume of Open World PvP. Let's see if this comes back.</p>

[Bassman]

<p><cite>Catflap@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>One of the most difficult aspects for the developers is trying to meet diverse interests i.e. Keeping lots of different types of people happy and playing the game.</p><p>The devs want to keep some new goals and targets.  bringing in new gear does this.  The gear cannot be too much better otherwise it causes big imbalance, meaning (for example) raided gear also needs a boost.</p><p>As a player who enjoys PvP, I don't really need the glitter of new gear, I just like PvPing.  That's why overall I have found the BG's to be detrimental to Nagafen. because it has drawn PvP out of the Open World, which has always been the best and most exciting.</p><p>Battle grounds gear (in my opinion) should be good, but not too great.</p><p>PvP won gear should be better, and harder to gain.</p><p>Fabled Instance gear should be tougher still to gain or cost a lot of tokens</p><p>Raided gear by nature of needing 24 coordinated people (and many people rolling on the same items) is harder still to gain, and should be the best gear.</p><p>It seems that we are pretty close to this.</p><p>The thing missing at the moment, is a good volume of Open World PvP. Let's see if this comes back.</p></blockquote><p>There are literally so many different problems going on with Nagafen, nobody can truely put their finger on just one topic long enough for it to be changed to the next.  It is hard for developers to make everyone happy, we can all at least agree with this.</p><p>The problem with BGs and their current mini grind is very simple to resolve.  Do not given tokens for losers!  Those who don't have the good gear will start buying the semi good gear just so they have a fighting chance at getting the better gear. On every MMO I've ever played you don't get rewarded for losing, your simply adding more problems into the game by doing this.  I don't even care that we can't upgrade the old gear, that isn't the true issue here.  The issue is that the newer players can come in, go straight to the good stuff without the need for the old.  You haven't done a true upgrade system like you did in the previous release.</p><p>Catflap, I totally disagree with the following statements:</p><p>> PvP won gear should be better, and harder to gain.</p><p>> Fabled Instance gear should be tougher still to gain or cost a lot of tokens</p><p>> Raided gear by nature of needing 24 coordinated people (and many people rolling on the same items) is harder still to gain, and should be the best gear.</p><p>We are on a PVP server.  Sony had it right finally with TSO where PVP gear was on par with Raid gear (ARMOR).  The armor should be exactly the same as the raid armor.  I'll even go as far to say that it should NOT be as good in PVE.  Nagafen is a PVP server and the hardcore pvpers don't want to be raiding 24/7 they'd rather be out kicking someone's tail.  By all means make the Jewelry better, give it some fancy something that makes the pvpers jealous they aren't raiding to get it, etc... but don't make it a MUST.</p><p>I've always hated the mentallity that just because 24 people worked together to beat a script which can be predicted down to the second of when it will occur, they should get better PVP gear.  Why does this make you good at pvp?  PVP gear should be the best gear you can get when it comes to PVPing. Raided gear should be just as good, but with these red adornments, they are more than better, they are required for you to even have the slightest chance.</p><p>What I think Sony is trying to do now is fill in the gaps between the two armor sets to show there are tiers and bring them closer to each other, but Sony still is trying to go back to the old days where if you didn't raid, there was no chance of you pvping successfully.</p><p>Personally, this has been the worst release to date with absolutely no end in sight of their blunder.  Everyone I PVP with has quit the game and is looking at other ones now.  I shall do the same.</p><p>The best way to show them their system doesn't work, is simply not to play.  I'll definitely check in from time to time and see if any of the updates address the concerns of the player base.  Right now, its like this is a brand new game and the people driving it aren't taking the time to listen to their player base, but rather trying to find more and more ways to milk the game for profit and ignore any testing.</p><p>Since obviously they aren't listening, I'm not playing.</p>

[Olihin]

<p>Greetings,</p><p>The changes listed in the stickies posts will be going live tomorrow.   I understand that many believe they wasted their time gearing up but that is not the case.   Your gear is still amazing for PvP but the additional bonuses and adornment slot enhancements for the new armor choices are even better should you chose to earn them.   I could hold on adding new gear for months, but why would I punish those that enjoy working towards a new goal? </p><p>If I stop adding content and items just to make sure everyone is on the same page and ready for new items that would be worse.  I plan on adding more items.  I plan on changing more content to help us in PvP.   I don't want to stop using my time to enhance the overall PvP game just because some players don't want to upgrade.    </p><p>I want to make sure that everyone understand that changes will sometimes enhance your playstyle and sometimes the changes will not.  I am not taking away any aspect of the game from you, but giving you more choices.   There are quite a few versions of players in our game and I try to make sure we have something for everyone but always having PvP as our focus.  It is awesome for me to get the resources to make changes that affect only PvP.  So each addition is a bonus for us as PvP players and not a roadblock that you should be discouraged by.</p><p>Happy Hunting!</p><p><span style="font-size: large; color: #3366ff;">Olihin</span></p>

[skidmark]

<p style="text-align: left;">Problem is the new gear is a marginal upgrade in most cases that if you have the full set of the original gear it isn't worth your time to upgrade. Just start saving for the next marginal upgrade.</p><p style="text-align: left;">When you look at the two sets, why would you buy the first set at this point? Until you can answer that question this equipment release is going to leave a lot of people feel like they are left in the cold. I haven't talked to anyone that likes this.</p><p style="text-align: left;">If the old gear was comparable to the new stuff, why is everyone (that knows about this impending update) saving their tokens?</p><p style="text-align: left;">You need to give trade-in credit, plain and simple. This doesn't feel like you are releasing a new set, it feels like you are slapping on something you forgot or failed to think of in the beginning.</p><p style="text-align: left;">In the world of sales/customer relations, perception is reality........</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Creve@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p style="text-align: left;">Problem is the new gear is a marginal upgrade <span style="color: #ff00ff;">in most cases that if you have the full set of the original gear it isn't worth your time to upgrade</span>. Just start saving for the next marginal upgrade.</p><p style="text-align: left;">When you look at the two sets, why would you buy the first set at this point? Until you can answer that question this equipment release is going to leave a lot of people feel like they are left in the cold. I haven't talked to anyone that likes this.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">If you have a full set of the original gear, then all the Tokens you are currently collecting are rotting in the bank since there was nothing more to buy.  Why bother doing writs and collecting Tokens if you have it all??</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">When Olihin puts new stuff up for purchase, those useless Tokens become valuable once again as you once more have upgrade items to purchase.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">It sounds like players are complaining that new upgrades will prevent them from collecting thousands of Tokens to rot in banks - which they would complain about if it happened.</span></p>

[skidmark]

<p>Because I have more than one toon.</p><p>Also, I don't mind upgrading if the upgrade feels worthwhile! As I said this isn't that much of an upgrade, either beef up the new set or give trade-in credit.</p>

[Cantor]

<p><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Greetings,</p><p>The changes listed in the stickies posts will be going live tomorrow.   I understand that many believe they wasted their time gearing up but that is not the case.   Your gear is still amazing for PvP but the additional bonuses and adornment slot enhancements for the new armor choices are even better should you chose to earn them.   I could hold on adding new gear for months, but why would I punish those that enjoy working towards a new goal? </p><p>If I stop adding content and items just to make sure everyone is on the same page and ready for new items that would be worse.  I plan on adding more items.  I plan on changing more content to help us in PvP.   I don't want to stop using my time to enhance the overall PvP game just because some players don't want to upgrade.    </p><p>I want to make sure that everyone understand that changes will sometimes enhance your playstyle and sometimes the changes will not.  I am not taking away any aspect of the game from you, but giving you more choices.   There are quite a few versions of players in our game and I try to make sure we have something for everyone but always having PvP as our focus.  It is awesome for me to get the resources to make changes that affect only PvP.  So each addition is a bonus for us as PvP players and not a roadblock that you should be discouraged by.</p><p>Happy Hunting!</p><p><span style="font-size: large; color: #3366ff;">Olihin</span></p></blockquote><p>Add new content, its ok. But give us an upgrade system! That's what we want.</p>

[Crimson Lord]

<p>sigh I remember when it took months to get pvp gear, now its a utter excuse my language but a f*cking joke. Heres a thought get rid of battlegrounds from nagafen. Why do we even care about battlegrounds when we have open world pvp OH I forgot your trying to turn Nagafen into a Blueberry server. I hate to say this but I miss the days of Kunark zerg, not having to que up for a wow/warhammer reject of a system u added to the game. Now with this Aion concept you got coming in for warfield or whatever you f*ck!ng call it. How about you  give some love to the "pvp server" and do SOMETHING to help open world pvp not just in two zones. Stop forcing us to have to find pvp in that fail concept you call battlegrounds. Side note our open world pvp gear should be better then the battleground stuff PERIOD we pvp not our fault the blubies wanted to roll a blue server, why should we be punished for playing on a red server.</p><p>WTB OPEN WORLD PVP</p><p>WTS BATTLEGROUNDS</p><p>excuse the lanuage but this is just utter crap, battlegrounds is killing Nagafen if it hasn't already</p>

[Grumble69]

<p><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Greetings,</p><p>The changes listed in the stickies posts will be going live tomorrow.   I understand that many believe they wasted their time gearing up but that is not the case.   Your gear is still amazing for PvP but the additional bonuses and adornment slot enhancements for the new armor choices are even better should you chose to earn them.   I could hold on adding new gear for months, but why would I punish those that enjoy working towards a new goal? </p><p>If I stop adding content and items just to make sure everyone is on the same page and ready for new items that would be worse.  I plan on adding more items.  I plan on changing more content to help us in PvP.   I don't want to stop using my time to enhance the overall PvP game just because some players don't want to upgrade.    </p><p>I want to make sure that everyone understand that changes will sometimes enhance your playstyle and sometimes the changes will not.  I am not taking away any aspect of the game from you, but giving you more choices.   There are quite a few versions of players in our game and I try to make sure we have something for everyone but always having PvP as our focus.  It is awesome for me to get the resources to make changes that affect only PvP.  So each addition is a bonus for us as PvP players and not a roadblock that you should be discouraged by.</p><p>Happy Hunting!</p><p><span style="font-size: large; color: #3366ff;">Olihin</span></p></blockquote><p>The ramification of this is that I just won't be playing the upper level BGs anymore with this system in place.  I'm going to be playing the lower level ones (which are cheaper), sit on my tokens, and using them to support my higher lvl toons when I see a "must have" item that comes out.  It's too much of a pain to suffer through a few hundred matches just to end up in gear that's less desirable every few months.</p><p>I have no idea why you can't understand this concept.  We suffer through all the bugs & woes of playing BGs and you kick us squarely in the danglies by having us start over from scratch.  No thx.</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Grumble69 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It's too much of a pain to suffer through a few hundred matches just to end up in gear that's less desirable every few months.</p><p>I have no idea why you can't understand this concept.  We suffer through all the bugs & woes of playing BGs and you kick us squarely in the danglies by having us start over from scratch.  No thx.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Hate to break it to you, but we have a new expansion coming up that will make your gear obsolete, and you'll have to start over from scratch. Again and again and again... <em>and then?</em></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">It's pretty cool to have options: if the upper BeeGees aren't your cup of tea, you can try the new Warfields.</span></p>

[Grumble69]

<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Grumble69 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It's too much of a pain to suffer through a few hundred matches just to end up in gear that's less desirable every few months.</p><p>I have no idea why you can't understand this concept.  We suffer through all the bugs & woes of playing BGs and you kick us squarely in the danglies by having us start over from scratch.  No thx.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Hate to break it to you, but we have a new expansion coming up that will make your gear obsolete, and you'll have to start over from scratch. Again and again and again... <em>and then?</em></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">It's pretty cool to have options: if the upper BeeGees aren't your cup of tea, you can try the new Warfields.</span></p></blockquote><p>No duh?  Expansions come out about once a year.  I'm fine with replacing things from scratch every year or so.  Every 2 or 3 months?  No way.  Totally unreasonable.</p>

[Crismorn]

<p><cite>Necrotia@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>sigh I remember when it took months to get pvp gear, now its a utter excuse my language but a f*cking joke. Heres a thought get rid of battlegrounds from nagafen. Why do we even care about battlegrounds when we have open world pvp OH I forgot your trying to turn Nagafen into a Blueberry server. I hate to say this but<strong> I miss the days of Kunark zerg</strong>, not having to que up for a wow/warhammer reject of a system u added to the game. <strong>Now with this Aion concept</strong> you got coming in for warfield or whatever you f*ck!ng call it. How about you  give some love to the "pvp server" and do SOMETHING to help open world pvp not just in two zones. Stop forcing us to have to find pvp in that fail concept you call battlegrounds. Side note our open world pvp gear should be better then the battleground stuff PERIOD we pvp not our fault the blubies wanted to roll a blue server, why should we be punished for playing on a red server.</p><p>WTB OPEN WORLD PVP</p><p>WTS BATTLEGROUNDS</p><p><strong>excuse the lanuage but this is just utter crap, battlegrounds is killing Nagafen if it hasn't already</strong></p></blockquote><p>The Kunark zerg is what killed Open world pvp along with the no risk/everyone wins system.</p><p>As for the Aion concept hardly, in Aion when you die you lose AP, you use AP to buy gear.  Eq2 pvp has no loss, when you get tokens they are yours until you use them.</p><p>Seriously though its not battlegrounds killing open world pvp its the no loss system, both open world and battlegrounds are meaningless pvp, bg's are just more available.</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Grumble69 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No duh?  Expansions come out about once a year.  I'm fine with replacing things from scratch every year or so.  Every 2 or 3 months?  No way.  Totally unreasonable.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Then don't replace your stuff every 2 or 3 months, and it's problem solved!!!11!!one!!</span></p>

[Grumble69]

<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Grumble69 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No duh?  Expansions come out about once a year.  I'm fine with replacing things from scratch every year or so.  Every 2 or 3 months?  No way.  Totally unreasonable.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Then don't replace your stuff every 2 or 3 months, and it's problem solved!!!11!!one!!</span></p></blockquote><p>And like I said--I have no intention.  Once burned, twice shy.  Maybe I'll replace my main char's gear every 3rd or 4th campaign using the tokens from my L30 alt instead.  ...at least that arena seems more stable.  Or maybe I just say screw it on my main and focus on red adorn gear instead.  I have absolutely no idea at this point where things are headed.  All I know is that today's contribution probably don't count squat towards the next few <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><em><strong>weeks</strong></em></span>.  So why bother?</p><p>The existing game mechanic basically shows that Ohilin has no clue where things are going with BG.  It's a completely haphazard, "pull items out of your bunghole every few weeks" approach.  So I'm not got to waste any more time in my main's BG development until things start going in a more logical direction.  It's just frustrating for me that SOE is prolly going to take a "wait & see" approach before realizing it's an obvious problem that most 5th graders would have realized off the bat.</p>

[Crismorn]

<p>No one has to play bg's its like crafting but not.</p>

[Rabbitoh]

<p><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Greetings,</p><p>The changes listed in the stickies posts will be going live tomorrow.   I understand that many believe they wasted their time gearing up but that is not the case.   Your gear is still amazing for PvP but the additional bonuses and adornment slot enhancements for the new armor choices are even better should you chose to earn them.   I could hold on adding new gear for months, but why would I punish those that enjoy working towards a new goal? </p><p>If I stop adding content and items just to make sure everyone is on the same page and ready for new items that would be worse.  I plan on adding more items.  I plan on changing more content to help us in PvP.   I don't want to stop using my time to enhance the overall PvP game just because some players don't want to upgrade.    </p><p>I want to make sure that everyone understand that changes will sometimes enhance your playstyle and sometimes the changes will not.  I am not taking away any aspect of the game from you, but giving you more choices.   There are quite a few versions of players in our game and I try to make sure we have something for everyone but always having PvP as our focus.  It is awesome for me to get the resources to make changes that affect only PvP.  So each addition is a bonus for us as PvP players and not a roadblock that you should be discouraged by.</p><p>Happy Hunting!</p><p><span style="color: #3366ff; font-size: large;">Olihin</span></p></blockquote><p>Olihin,</p><p>I want to know why raid armor/items is far superior to that of the pvp armor/items?</p><p>If player "a" is wearing raid gear he will destroy player "B" who is wearing pvp gear.</p><p>We play on a pvp server and the best pvp gear should come from pvping, not doing closed instances.</p><p>Take a look at the damage procs/heal procs etc from raid gear and compare it to the pvp gear. Example is chain legs that has an aoe proc of around 3.8k (when i view it) along with other goodies. </p><p>I don't care how much toughness there is on the pvp items/armor it can't not hold up to the damage from raid gear.</p><p>i ask you to have a look and see what you can do in regards to rectifying this problem!</p><p>Molok.</p>

[dr4gonUK]

<p>Please make it so we have to trade in our old bg gear for the next set.</p><p>Why slap players in the face with this time sink idea?</p><p>And suggesting we " save our tokens " just spoils continuity completely. Our actions shouldnt be dependant upon as yet unreleased updates.</p><p>Just use common sense please.</p>

[Edavi]

<p><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Greetings,</p><p>The changes listed in the stickies posts will be going live tomorrow.   I understand that many believe they wasted their time gearing up but that is not the case.  <span style="color: #ff0000;"> Your gear is still amazing for PvP</span> but the additional bonuses and adornment slot enhancements for the new armor choices are even better should you chose to earn them.   I could hold on adding new gear for months, but why would I punish those that enjoy working towards a new goal? </p><p>If I stop adding content and items just to make sure everyone is on the same page and ready for new items that would be worse.  I plan on adding more items.  I plan on changing more content to help us in PvP.   I don't want to stop using my time to enhance the overall PvP game just because some players don't want to upgrade.    </p><p>I want to make sure that everyone understand that changes will sometimes enhance your playstyle and sometimes the changes will not.  I am not taking away any aspect of the game from you, but giving you more choices.   There are quite a few versions of players in our game and I try to make sure we have something for everyone but always having PvP as our focus.  It is awesome for me to get the resources to make changes that affect only PvP.  So each addition is a bonus for us as PvP players and not a roadblock that you should be discouraged by.</p><p>Happy Hunting!</p><p><span style="font-size: large; color: #3366ff;">Olihin</span></p></blockquote><p>False.... My RAID gear is amazing for PVP... my PVP gear is simply mediocre for PVP.. and PVE as well for that matter.</p>

[Draag]

<p><cite>Cantor@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Greetings,</p><p>The changes listed in the stickies posts will be going live tomorrow.   I understand that many believe they wasted their time gearing up but that is not the case.   Your gear is still amazing for PvP but the additional bonuses and adornment slot enhancements for the new armor choices are even better should you chose to earn them.   I could hold on adding new gear for months, but why would I punish those that enjoy working towards a new goal? </p><p>If I stop adding content and items just to make sure everyone is on the same page and ready for new items that would be worse.  I plan on adding more items.  I plan on changing more content to help us in PvP.   I don't want to stop using my time to enhance the overall PvP game just because some players don't want to upgrade.    </p><p>I want to make sure that everyone understand that changes will sometimes enhance your playstyle and sometimes the changes will not.  I am not taking away any aspect of the game from you, but giving you more choices.   There are quite a few versions of players in our game and I try to make sure we have something for everyone but always having PvP as our focus.  It is awesome for me to get the resources to make changes that affect only PvP.  So each addition is a bonus for us as PvP players and not a roadblock that you should be discouraged by.</p><p>Happy Hunting!</p><p><span style="font-size: large; color: #3366ff;">Olihin</span></p></blockquote><p>Add new content, its ok. But give us an upgrade system! That's what we want.</p></blockquote><p>This is all anyone is asking for.</p><p>Adding new stuff is good.  Making our stuff that we spent hours and hours on sub-par within a couple of months is just...  Pointless.   Why not have an upgrade system?</p><p>Why not?</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Did anyone notice that the new gear is slightly cheaper?  On Test, open-pvp boots that once cost 200 Tokens are now going to be 125.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">However, if it is an "upgrade path" that is troubling most people, what if SOE was to borrow the same value they employ for Research Assistants?  Give a ~1/3 credit when you turn in the old piece for upgrade.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Altogether, I hope the releases of improved gear - which will still be easily destroyed by raiders - and lower costs will finally stir the great casual majority to come out of instances to pvp once again.</span></p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Edavi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>False.... My RAID gear is amazing for PVP... my PVP gear is simply mediocre for PVP.. and PVE as well for that matter.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Yup, and a lot of the high-end raid gear is getting improved, as well!</span></p>

[Valdar]

<p>Upgrading gear is not a problem and part of the game. Upgrading every 2 months is a joke.</p><p>Revamp the raidgear every 2 months and see how many complaints you get.</p>

[Grumble69]

<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">However, if it is an "upgrade path" that is troubling most people, what if SOE was to borrow the same value they employ for Research Assistants?  Give a ~1/3 credit when you turn in the old piece for upgrade.</span></p></blockquote><p>I've got two big gripes with this system.   The first is the lack of an "upgrade path".  And your approach does try to address that.  But my other big gripe is that the system really needs to identify & reward the folks who put the most into BG.  I just don't like the whole idea that a new person can "jump to the end".  In my mind that's like letting a lowbie character use his first 10AAs to buy his endline AAs right off the bat.</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Phaust@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Upgrading gear is not a problem and part of the game. Upgrading every 2 months is a joke.</p><p>Revamp the raidgear every 2 months and see how many complaints you get.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">The raid gear has been revamped a couple times already - but it has been done to <em>existing</em> drops as far as I recall.  </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">You want to be coddled in this game, go and raid.</span></p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Grumble69 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>But my other big gripe is that the system really needs to identify & reward the folks who put the most into BG.  I just don't like the whole idea that a new person can "jump to the end". </p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">People who put a ton of effort into the game naturally enjoy the rewards the fastest - a hardcore can be geared up in a week, while a casual will require 3-4 weeks to be all geared up.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Hardcores are too small a population to sustain the hardcore playstyle, as the many threads complaining of dead open-pvp demonstrate.  Casuals are the lifeblood that are needed in open-pvp, and TSO's Freeport TG was the one golden success of casual interest.  SF so far has missed the mark in returning to that level of player interest.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Casuals usually play a few hours or less a day, so it isn't possible for them to be rewarded like a hardcore.  The "trivial" game is a result of hardcores being able to devote a ton of time and gearing up long before a newbie can. </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">On a related note, new players have a very difficult time joining eq2 simply because of the massive "barrier to entry" of a long AA grind after 90 levels, just to catch up to an active community - on pvp where we will now have lowbie-locking, this won't matter near as much.  Some interesting threads in General forums section discussing this.</span></p>

[Cantor]

<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">The raid gear has been revamped a couple times already - but it has been done to <em>existing</em> drops as far as I recall.  </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">You want to be coddled in this game, go and raid.</span></p></blockquote><p>The armor raid gear has not been revamped every 2 months.</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Cantor@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The armor raid gear has not been revamped every 2 months.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Really?  I recall SOE revamped raid gear to add resists roughly a month into SF, and then they revamped stats to bump them up a little a few weeks after that, and with today's GU SOE has revamped challenge mode raid drops.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Perhaps it isn't an exact clockwork "2 months", but raid gear has gotten SOE lovin' with 3 or so boosts since SF launch.</span></p>

[Valdar]

<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cantor@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The armor raid gear has not been revamped every 2 months.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Really?  I recall SOE revamped raid gear to add resists roughly a month into SF, and then they revamped stats to bump them up a little a few weeks after that, and with today's GU SOE has revamped challenge mode raid drops.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Perhaps it isn't an exact clockwork "2 months", but raid gear has gotten SOE lovin' with 3 or so boosts since SF launch.</span></p></blockquote><p>They revamp the items, they don't leave the old version in and add a new one, which is exactly what they are doing with pvp gear.</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Phaust@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They revamp the items, they don't leave the old version in and add a new one, which is exactly what they are doing with pvp gear.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Yup, I pointed that out in my earlier post to you - raiding is where you go to for the best pvp stuff.</span></p>

[swedago]

<p><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Greetings,</p><p>The changes listed in the stickies posts will be going live tomorrow.   I understand that many believe they wasted their time gearing up but that is not the case.   Your gear is still amazing for PvP but the additional bonuses and adornment slot enhancements for the new armor choices are even better should you chose to earn them.   I could hold on adding new gear for months, <span style="color: #ff0000; font-size: small;"><strong>but why would I punish those that enjoy working towards a new goal</strong></span>? </p><p>If I stop adding content and items just to make sure everyone is on the same page and ready for new items that would be worse.  I plan on adding more items.  I plan on changing more content to help us in PvP.   I don't want to stop using my time to enhance the overall PvP game just because some players don't want to upgrade.    </p><p>I want to make sure that everyone understand that changes will sometimes enhance your playstyle and sometimes the changes will not.  I am not taking away any aspect of the game from you, but giving you more choices.   There are quite a few versions of players in our game and I try to make sure we have something for everyone but always having PvP as our focus.  It is awesome for me to get the resources to make changes that affect only PvP.  So each addition is a bonus for us as PvP players and not a roadblock that you should be discouraged by.</p><p>Happy Hunting!</p><p><span style="color: #3366ff; font-size: large;">Olihin</span></p></blockquote><p>You're kidding right?  I have 22 BG items. </p><p>1st you nerf the Adom. Gear to lose all the resists in PvE (5 crappy pieces now so they are stored in guild bank in hopes that there will be a trade in).</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000; font-size: x-small;"><strong>I think instead of ever  promoting you they should move you to a new department as a entry-level type person so you can also enjoy working towards a new goal =P</strong></span>  The highlighted comment you made may work on the teenagers, but definitely not me.</p>

[Ralpmet]

<p>You guys can defend it all you want, but personally I'm not going to pay someone to play a game where my efforts are constantly belittled.</p><p>I don't have the kind of time to be upgrading all my sets of gear on all my toons every couple of months without warning. That's like the ultimate in screwing people over, and I don't buy it. I cancelled my sub the moment I found out that there was going to be no trade in.</p><p>From my perspective, I bought nearly all the bg pieces I have the day before you announced that there was going to be new bg gear without an upgrade system. How do you think that made me feel? Or the past 2 weeks when I've been playing my Coercer in Bgs trying to save up enough tokens for the armor when it came out. You think gimping my already [Removed for Content] clothy made my gameplay enjoyable?</p><p>This isn't about how much time you can suck out of us, trust me we'll suck our own time out of ourselves in open world pvp given the opportunity. I really enjoy this game, but not the way it's been going for about the past year in particular. Basically I'm just not going to pay you guys to screw me over like that. I mean, for christs sake, some of the level 80 pvp armor is STILL better than the bg armor and I'm supposed to run out and grind another 30+ bg matches to get one stinking piece? Nty. Keep your timesink bs to yourself, thanks.</p>

[Couger]

<p><span style="color: #ff9900;">This is a simple and to the point post.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff9900;">I hate Battlegrounds, instanced PvP sucks butt. I'm not rolling through it again.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff9900;">I've played since day one and have been extremely happy with the new dev ideas for the</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff9900;">past 2 expansions. </span></p><p><span style="color: #ffff00; font-size: medium;">GIVE US THE OPTION TO UPGRADE AND TAKE OUT THE "PRESEASON GEAR"</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff9900;">or i may have to unsubscribe on principle.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff9900;">Thanks for your time.</span></p>

[Bassman]

<p><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Greetings,</p><p>The changes listed in the stickies posts will be going live tomorrow.   I understand that many believe they wasted their time gearing up but that is not the case.   Your gear is still amazing for PvP but the additional bonuses and adornment slot enhancements for the new armor choices are even better should you chose to earn them.   I could hold on adding new gear for months, but why would I punish those that enjoy working towards a new goal? </p><p>If I stop adding content and items just to make sure everyone is on the same page and ready for new items that would be worse.  I plan on adding more items.  I plan on changing more content to help us in PvP.   I don't want to stop using my time to enhance the overall PvP game just because some players don't want to upgrade.    </p><p>I want to make sure that everyone understand that changes will sometimes enhance your playstyle and sometimes the changes will not.  I am not taking away any aspect of the game from you, but giving you more choices.   There are quite a few versions of players in our game and I try to make sure we have something for everyone but always having PvP as our focus.  It is awesome for me to get the resources to make changes that affect only PvP.  So each addition is a bonus for us as PvP players and not a roadblock that you should be discouraged by.</p><p>Happy Hunting!</p><p><span style="font-size: large; color: #3366ff;">Olihin</span></p></blockquote><p>Olihin,</p><p>            Don't stop adding content and items, of course its a must.  But when adding in PVP items to the system, why are they so far behind PVE items?  A fully decked out zerker or SK in PVE armor is better than one decked out in PVP armor.  Even with the new blue adornment stuff your putting in.. its still crap compared to PVE armor.  You mentioned you don't want to stop using your time to enchance the overall PvP game because some players don't want to upgrade.  The fact is, your giving us more crap PvP gear trying to fill the gap between PvP and PvE gear and we all know it doesn't do it.</p><p>More choices is always a good thing, but when the best choice isn't even possible unless you raid, thats crap.  What we want is balanced PvP so that when you finally get these Warfields to stop lagging and everyone is out PvPing again, those who only PvP will have a fighting chance against those who PvE 24/7 and only PvP once a week for maybe 2 hours.</p><p>For the record, I'm all for upgrading to PvP gear that is on par with PvE gear.  2 years from now when your finally ready to put that in the game I'm sure the PvE gear will be twice as good as it is now.  So I guess in 2 years I'll come back and check on your progress.</p>

[Dreadpatch]

I guess I'm mildly annoyed that I spent a bunch of time getting gear that was effective for about a month. I could probably get passed that if I didn't have to fight for more tokens in the same 3 tired zones/maps with the same three tired game types. Maybe add some different game types in the existing zones/maps or add some maps. Spend less time trying to upgrade gear a tiny bit and shift that effort in giving us some new playing content FTW!!!!!

[Draag]

<p><cite>Belowar@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Greetings,</p><p>The changes listed in the stickies posts will be going live tomorrow.   I understand that many believe they wasted their time gearing up but that is not the case.   Your gear is still amazing for PvP but the additional bonuses and adornment slot enhancements for the new armor choices are even better should you chose to earn them.   I could hold on adding new gear for months, but why would I punish those that enjoy working towards a new goal? </p><p>If I stop adding content and items just to make sure everyone is on the same page and ready for new items that would be worse.  I plan on adding more items.  I plan on changing more content to help us in PvP.   I don't want to stop using my time to enhance the overall PvP game just because some players don't want to upgrade.    </p><p>I want to make sure that everyone understand that changes will sometimes enhance your playstyle and sometimes the changes will not.  I am not taking away any aspect of the game from you, but giving you more choices.   There are quite a few versions of players in our game and I try to make sure we have something for everyone but always having PvP as our focus.  It is awesome for me to get the resources to make changes that affect only PvP.  So each addition is a bonus for us as PvP players and not a roadblock that you should be discouraged by.</p><p>Happy Hunting!</p><p><span style="font-size: large; color: #3366ff;">Olihin</span></p></blockquote><p>Olihin,</p><p>            Don't stop adding content and items, of course its a must.  But when adding in PVP items to the system, why are they so far behind PVE items?  A fully decked out zerker or SK in PVE armor is better than one decked out in PVP armor.  Even with the new blue adornment stuff your putting in.. its still crap compared to PVE armor.  You mentioned you don't want to stop using your time to enchance the overall PvP game because some players don't want to upgrade.  The fact is, your giving us more crap PvP gear trying to fill the gap between PvP and PvE gear and we all know it doesn't do it.</p><p>More choices is always a good thing, but when the best choice isn't even possible unless you raid, thats crap.  What we want is balanced PvP so that when you finally get these Warfields to stop lagging and everyone is out PvPing again, those who only PvP will have a fighting chance against those who PvE 24/7 and only PvP once a week for maybe 2 hours.</p><p>For the record, I'm all for upgrading to PvP gear that is on par with PvE gear.  2 years from now when your finally ready to put that in the game I'm sure the PvE gear will be twice as good as it is now.  So I guess in 2 years I'll come back and check on your progress.</p></blockquote><p>I agree.  And I would be fine with top of the line PvP gear being the same or better than top of the line PvE gear, but only usable in BG.  Why do I have to do PvE content to compete in PvP?  That would be like having to grind BG to get raid gear for PvE... ... dot dot dot</p>

[yerboguy]

<p>You are ignoring the real complaint in with regards to how the upgrade was implemented. You could have made having the previous tier of gear necessary to get this new gear, then everyone would have been on the same page. Instead you chose to create a situation where a person who is locked at 89 has been collecting tokens and not spending them is in a far far better boat than another person locked at 89 who has been buying and storing his gear. Person (a) has the option of buying the new gear and totally bypassing the first tier, player (b) does not simply ecause he chose to store gear rather than tokens. It's an absolute joke and trying to justify it in any way just adds insult to injury my friend.</p>

[GONYLIN]

<p>Please listen to ur customers - just for once - this should be about us not you.  Cutomers says "upgradeable armour is what we want" . You offer no reasonable reason why you shouldn't cater for this - either change change your stance or make explicit a very good reason why not.  These are very, very basics of customer relations - if you collectively are incapable of doing this then hire someone who is,</p><p>Obi</p>

[snowli]

<p>regearing every couple of months just isn't appealing, quite apart from it being utterly impossible for most EU players with single figures (or none) of smugglers runs in an entire week, I can see whay the popularity has dropped way off if this is supposed to be such a blatantly endless hamster wheel.</p>

[Crismorn]

<p>Then dont get the new gear, its a reward for DOING the content, if you do NOT enjoy that content then dont do it.</p><p>You guys are more bluebie then actual bluebies.</p>

[snowli]

<p>2 months for old gear to be trashed instead of an upgrade path is too short a lifecycle even for US BG's in my view.</p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Then dont get the new gear, its a reward for DOING the content, if you do NOT enjoy that content then dont do it.</p><p>You guys are more bluebie then actual bluebies.</p></blockquote><p>no one is making any good points in favor of the current situation.  the points being made by said people are:</p><p>1. tuff luck</p><p>2. devs do waht they want</p><p>3. dont play alts</p><p>4. who cares</p><p> those aren't good reasons for what they did, as a matter of fact they are ignorant reasons.</p><p> one of these things needs to happen:</p><p> gear needs to be given some type of trade in value.</p><p>old gear needs to be upgraded(like all gear always has been).</p><p>some type of logical proggression needs to be added to this "better" gear to justify having TWO sets of level 90 gear.</p><p>i mean this seems elementary yet it still made it to live.</p>

[Crismorn]

<p>Nothing needs to happen you just need to get better at math.</p><p>Gearing up more then one character requires you to play more then the guy gearing up one character.</p><p>The gear is there to be bought for time + effort, if you dont have enough to buy the gear then you did not spend enough time + effort.</p><p>You guys remind me of guildies who load up their alts w/ gear and wonder why they dont have any plat.</p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Nothing needs to happen you just need to get better at math.</p><p>Gearing up more then one character requires you to play more then the guy gearing up one character.</p><p>The gear is there to be bought for time + effort, if you dont have enough to buy the gear then you did not spend enough time + effort.</p><p>You guys remind me of guildies who load up their alts w/ gear and wonder why they dont have any plat.</p></blockquote><p> bro.. but that's not the point of the thread.</p><p> this is about all the work many people put in for many different characters all going down the drain after only a few months of play time.</p><p>  sure if you only are gearing up on character, you must have tons of tokens and this was not much of a problem for you but that has nothing to do with the fact that this was and is a dumb move.</p>

[snowli]

<p>The reasons I find mark and shards systems by contrast much better are:</p><ol><li>They don't replace gear every 2 months</li><li>they have many more instances than just 3</li><li>you aren't required to run all the instances a roughly equal amount of times in order to get gear, it's possible to do instances you mght enjoy less, less often - this system if you don#t like (or don't have any access to a particular BG instance) you can't equip at all basically</li><li>continuing mark and shard systems over the long term felt like over time it gradually progressed your character, not that it replaced your effort and invalidated your spent time so far</li><li>if a new gear set is released for PvP every 2months, it has to be a better set every 2 months for people to want it, therefore it means a power inflation every 2 months to gear that was already too powerful frankly versus PvE gear, longterm the PvP gear seems like it's going to quickly outgrow all other sets because it's replaced so much faster.</li><li>The timesink for pvp gear with a 2month turnover is large enough to rival all other activities</li><li>possibly UK players opinion will improve when we don't spend masses of time bored and q-ing than we spend in matche themselves or q-ing to get out again (trying to do anything constructive while q-ing means wrong aa-spec, or breaking Q because of in combat and getting penatly timer etc etc)</li></ol>

[Crismorn]

<p>Looks like you found your progression path then</p>

[Naggasaki]

<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Looks like you found your progression path then</p></blockquote><p>Says the level 21 Wizard wearing Isle of Refuge trash.</p>

[swedago]

<p>I am still waiting for someone with a firsthand opinion to explain why all our time spent was wasted...  Not someone below Senior Executive Management that can only read the memos.</p>

[Kanaellars]

<p>We might as well give up.</p><p>The devs arnt reading.</p><p>If they are reading, they arnt listening.</p><p>If they are listening, they sure as heck arnt caring.</p><p>Is this new? No. this is SOEs long term business plan. Its been this way since EQ1 launched.</p><p>We are all the idiots for still being here.</p>

[Crismorn]

<p>The first season gear is still good, its just not the best anymore.</p><p>i</p><p>like</p><p>big</p><p>spaces</p><p>too</p>

[Naggasaki]

<p>I'm curious as to why this post got moved into the Battlegrounds thread. The OP clearly stated PvP gear in his original post. If it had been consolidated into another 'similar' thread in the BG forum I could understand. But this is just...confusing, to say the least.</p>

[Grumble69]

<p>Well, the progression path is obvious--red adorn trumps blue adorn.  If you're always 'chasing the dragon' on a set of armor that will never be good enough, you may as well be spending your time going after the red stuff.</p>