Guardian's What works, What doesn't and suggestions to fix what is broken.

[Raahl]

<p>I am tired of the X tank class vs. Y tank class arguments that continue to plague the fighter forums, so I will try and take the discussion a different direction.<span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>WARNING: </strong></span> If you do not play a Guardian as your main or are a Guardian that has come here to argue class warfare, please go away.  You are not welcome here.  And yes I understand there's a sticky.I have been out of it for a while, and I feel we need to identify what works, doesn't work and what needs to be done to fix the Guardian class.  While this may or may not fall on deaf ears, my hope is to at least try and make our voices heard.  Please if you have suggestions or comments that will assist in defining this thread, please comment.  Even if it goes against what I believe.  I will break this up into 3 sections;  Solo, Single Group and Raid.</p><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>What Works</strong></span></p><p>Our survivability seems to be not a big issue.  So unless I hear otherwise, I will place this under "What works".</p><p>The Sentinel's Fate AA Improved Moderation, allows our moderate to apply to our entire group.  This is excellent and to me solves higher level issues with the additional aggro that the higher DPS classes can generate.  At least for those in our group.  In raids this doesn't help as much because most of your DPS is out of your group.</p><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>Solo</strong></span>Guardians are weak when it comes to solo'ing.  Our lack of DPS makes solo'ing a long and arduous process.  While solo'ing our offensive stance does help increase the speed that we can solo, but it is my belief that this is woefully inadequate. </p><p>Suggestion #1:  Purpose a change to our offensive stance that substitutes more survivability for more DPS.  This in part will help define our offensive stance as more of a solo stance.  At best it could be used for single groups, but never raids.  Suggestion TBD, still thinking on this one.<span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>Single Group</strong></span>Aggro management is probably our biggest issue because of our limited AoE damage and general lack of DPS. </p><p>Suggestion #2:  Increase the effectiveness of our Hold the Line ability.  Currently we have to be hit to have a chance at proc'ing a taunt.  My suggestion would be to change the Guardian AA ability Enhance Intercept to be Enhance Hold the Line with each level giving a 3-4% increase in the chance to proc the taunt each time a guardian is hit.</p><p>Suggestion #3 (Arksun):  Modify Hold the Line to proc whenever the guardian is attacked, 100% chance to proc.  Whether damage was done or not.</p><p>Suggestion #4 (Arksun):  Add a hate generating component to our defensive stance.  Seeing that our Defensive stance reduces our DPS we need a way to build hate.  Possibly a % hate increase.</p><p>Suggestion #5 (Feldorm):  Increase effectiveness of Guardian taunts, possibly doubling the taunt amounts.<cite></cite></p><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>Raid</strong></span>Ok I currently have no idea what our issue is here.  I suspect it's related to keeping aggro without some sort of hate transfer or possibly even with hate transfer.  I haven't been MT in a raid since KOS/EOF and then I had to spec for DPS and tank in offensive mode to have much chance to keep aggro. </p><p>Suggestion #2-5 for Single Groups would help this some during raids.  So all you Guardian Raid MT's speak up.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>NOTE:</strong></span>  This is about fixing Guardians across all levels, not just at 90.  So you lower level Guardians, please speak up.</p><p>Well more to come as I think a bit more about it and other offer their ideas and comments.</p>

[arksun]

<p>Our defensive stance needs to create hate, that would be one step in the right direction. Considering with gear and less inc damage our overall hate is less generation due to the way we actually generate hate, that needs to be changed.</p>

[arksun]

<p><cite>Raahl wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Suggestion #2:  Increase the effectiveness of our Hold the Line ability.  Currently we have to be hit to have a chance at proc'ing a taunt.  My suggestion would be to change the Guardian AA ability Enhance Intercept to be Enhance Hold the Line with each level giving a 3-4% increase in the chance to proc the taunt each time a guardian is hit. </p></blockquote><p>It should not work off of being hit tbh, this is the worst mechanic for hate generation in game. The idea is to avoid inc damage to be the "best" defensive tank in game. The actuall ability itself needs to be changed.</p>

[Raahl]

<p><cite>Digg@Permafrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Our defensive stance needs to create hate, that would be one step in the right direction. Considering with gear and less inc damage our overall hate is less generation due to the way we actually generate hate, that needs to be changed.</p></blockquote><p>If we added a buff to the amount of hate that HTL procs while in Defensive stance to be sufficient enough?  Or were you looking for an overall percentage increase to say hate generated from DPS?</p><p>It's been a long while since I've seen how much hate HTL procs.   It could be virtually useless even if the proc was 100% of the time.</p>

[Raahl]

<p><cite>Digg@Permafrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Raahl wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Suggestion #2:  Increase the effectiveness of our Hold the Line ability.  Currently we have to be hit to have a chance at proc'ing a taunt.  My suggestion would be to change the Guardian AA ability Enhance Intercept to be Enhance Hold the Line with each level giving a 3-4% increase in the chance to proc the taunt each time a guardian is hit.</p></blockquote><p>It should not work off of being hit tbh, this is the worst mechanic for hate generation in game. The idea is to avoid inc damage to be the "best" defensive tank in game. The actuall ability itself needs to be changed.</p></blockquote><p>Well don't we pretty much always get hit?  Especially in higher end encounters?  Now I could see problems occuring with not being hit the closer mobs get to grey.  Hmmm.  But I will agree with you, I've never been that excited about the mechanics of HTL. </p><p>HTL use to take power each proc, is this still the case?</p>

[Feldorm]

<p>HTL is too weak for any such change to make a reasonable difference. A better option would be to, say, double our base taunt amounts. Other tanks can put out double our dps, aso imo we should be able to taunt twice as well as them to compensate for our low dps aggro. Therefore I think Guardian (and only Guardian) taunts should have their base values doubled to help balance it out. Even if it's single target taunts only then this will help... most guardians acknowledge our speciality is not in AE aggro.</p><p>Furthermore our survivability advantage over other tanks is non existant. All plate taks can reach the mitigation cap with group buffs alone, and I think this is possible at 90 even without raid gear, so our mitigation buffs give us no advantage. Guardians, as the tank who can't dps or heal, are supposed to have some survivability advantage in return. I think we should get an extra 40 hp per level or an aa line to give us 10% innate damage reduction (there are currently LOADS of useless AAs that no one choses and that could be changed).</p><p>Also I disagree with you about soloing. Most people don't chose guardians because they want to solo. Plus I don't think we are that bad tbh, even if our dps is fairly aa/gear dependent.</p>

[Raahl]

<p><cite>Feldorm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>HTL is too weak for any such change to make a reasonable difference. A better option would be to, say, double our base taunt amounts. Other tanks can put out double our dps, aso imo we should be able to taunt twice as well as them to compensate for our low dps aggro. Therefore I think Guardian (and only Guardian) taunts should have their base values doubled to help balance it out. Even if it's single target taunts only then this will help... most guardians acknowledge our speciality is not in AE aggro.</p><p>Furthermore our survivability advantage over other tanks is non existant. All plate taks can reach the mitigation cap with group buffs alone, and I think this is possible at 90 even without raid gear, so our mitigation buffs give us no advantage. Guardians, as the tank who can't dps or heal, are supposed to have some survivability advantage in return. I think we should get an extra 40 hp per level or an aa line to give us 10% innate damage reduction (there are currently LOADS of useless AAs that no one choses and that could be changed).</p><p>Also I disagree with you about soloing. Most people don't chose guardians because they want to solo. Plus I don't think we are that bad tbh, even if our dps is fairly aa/gear dependent.</p></blockquote><p>Thanks for your input.</p><p>HTL may be too weak to make a difference, but that doesn't mean it cannot be fixed to be more useful at keeping aggro.  I had also thought about increasing the effectiveness of our taunts.  I'll write it up and add it to the original post.</p><p>Please do not use comparisons of us to other classes in this thread.  My purpose here is to come up with a list of suggestions to fix the Guardian class, not turn this into a flame thread between Guardians and others.  </p><p>I disagree with you about our mit buffs, sure in a jigged out group we are more than likely to be hitting the mit cap.  But for the other 80-90% of the time we are not hitting the cap. </p><p>Damage reduction would be a nice ability, but do we really have any issues with survivability?  Hmm.</p><p>True most do not pick a Guardian to solo, but the fact is that most end up solo'ing to level.  And don't get me wrong were not bad at it, we just need a little tweak.  I modified my statement as it did seem I was overly harsh on it.</p>

[Raahl]

<p>Could someone post screenshots of the Offensive and Defensive stances for the Guardian?  I'm not at home and would like to offer some changes for them.</p>

[Landiin]

<p>Not bashing the thread Raahl and I applaud your effort but there is like 10 other ones floating around like this. In beta there was very good suggestions made and none have been acted upon or the class even adjusted since then. I simply have no hope at all that the threat disparity between guards and other plate tanks will be brought in line.</p><p>Basically the deference in our DPS compared to the other plate tanks should be made up in TPS. I don't mind parsing t3-t2 as long as the TPS is there to make up for the deference.</p>

[Raahl]

<p><cite>Toranx@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Not bashing the thread Raahl and I applaud your effort but there is like 10 other ones floating around like this. In beta there was very good suggestions made and none have been acted upon or the class even adjusted since then. I simply have no hope at all that the threat disparity between guards and other plate tanks will be brought in line.</blockquote><p>I understand that Toranx.  Give me some time, I'm sure that I will lose hope and give up.   Everyone once in a while I try to offer threads like this in the hopes that someone at Sony would see it and take note.</p><p>Heck it would be nice to see some sort of acknowledgement that they have seen the thread and appreciate the feedback.</p><p>Perhaps when things are hammered out I'll feedback it in game.</p>

[Yimway]

<p>You need to take survivability off the list of what works.</p><p>It doesn't work in pvp or aoe combat.</p><p>Other fighters are significantly more survivable in these elements, and as that is the primary arguement for our comparitively low dps output, it needs to be addressed.</p>

[Macross_JR]

<p>Do things need fixed? Yes.  Were there threads in beta about what needed fixed? Yes.  Was anything done to fix any of the problems? No.  I can't even remember how many threads we had where we gave numerous ways to improve the issues we as Guardians have.  But nothing was done.</p>

[Thor]

<p>I don't post often here but thought I should put in some feedback.</p><p>There are many ideas floating around here. To some I agree and to other I don't.First i want to say that imo, no tank should have 100% aggro controll. There should always be a risk for that mage who chain nukes or assassin the who go wild on the mob.</p><p><span><p>Many good ideas are being post in these forums and I won't repeat them.</p><p>A few things I want to add.</p><p>I agree with Digg about our def stance. It should increase the hate generation. We should generate more hate in def stance then in O.  Not add % in the hate gain (which I think is capped to 50%?)  but a raw multiplier to all our taunts and other ca's that has hate added to them.</p><p>HTL needs a rework. I'm at work so don't remember the numbers but think it procs for about 1-1.2k <strong>WHEN</strong> it procs. It get too much resisted, even in def stance. That must be changed. I would also like to see it as an encounter proc.</p><p>Change the range of our taunts. 15m is too short. 25 would be more sufficient. Especially our AE taunt in heroic instances where you have to pull groups and you always have the individuals in the group comming in with different speed.  Use it too early and you have half of them out of range, wait too long and you have one of them beating on your healer.</p><p>Shorter cast time on Assault. See above. This is our only blue ae unless we went agi line. We see more and more of encounters with multiple mobs that are not linked. The Vigilant zones in SF for example.</p><p>Take away the slow penalty on Hunker Down.  I know it can be done by putting points in the Wisdom line but we shouldn't have to waste a lot points there if we don't like that option. On many occasions you can get ported in a fight and need to get to a certain spot in a short time or you die. (Haraakat in Perah'Celsis for example). Also when you *sigh* loose aggro to the ranger standing far back and you need to go grab the mob because the ranger is paralyzed in fear and don't run it to you.</p><p>Edit for typos. Can still be some typos there but hey, I got M2 typos so I'm excused <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></span></p>

[arksun]

<p>Yes sady, I am pretty much let down by the lack of communication with the "old" and "new" mechanics dev. How long has it been since things that do not work correctly run its course for so long with no changes, much less even a reply saying "hey guys we know there is a problem we have a plan, there is a plan, here are some ideas?</p><p>If one thing they could learn from any of this is.... Your playerbase is the beta testers of this game 24/7, we know how the mechanics they change effect in game play. Of course there are over the top scenarios, and people that just want to hold another class down, but it is so easy to see through those post. To let a class as the Guardian wither away in such a fashion is just a let down all together.</p><p>Just look at the people who post on the Guardian boards here and on flames, its a ghost town. Look at the WW channel in game, its a ghost town.... there is a reason for this.... how hard is it to understand?</p>

[lik]

<p>First off, i dont beg or sit on my knees and pray for things to change. The ratarts that make this game happen daily are Well aware of the state of the Guardless class. So, stop giving ideas on how to fix what they see as not broken. You can roll a dice on what class is the raid MT these days. The MT jobs are all taken and things are running as intended. Seems to me we are overlooking the brawler class. Any plate tank is now the MT. SK currently the best. Brawlers can now be a viable OT, and they are bad azz. It seems to me that All "fighter" classes now have a roll in EQ2. That my fellow Guards was and is their intention all along. SK's will be the top MT for the next 365 days or more. You can sit and wait or basically lvl up a SK to 90 and be a bad azz MT. If you are into being the red head step kid, by all means keep posting here.</p>

[Landiin]

Another person short on chromosomes comes out of the wood work... Where do you people come from really?

[Humayon]

<p><cite>Digg@Permafrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Our defensive stance needs to create hate, that would be one step in the right direction. Considering with gear and less inc damage our overall hate is less generation due to the way we actually generate hate, that needs to be changed.</p></blockquote><p>QFE.</p><p>Simply what i had also said in my posts previously. SOE if you want us to be defensive tanks, great, just bump our inherent  hate gain. Defensively we are solid and mitigate damage like no other class but being fully defensive is just not on with our current hate in that mode.</p><p>Little tweaks to add a tiny bit more to our overall defensive skills and give us more hate in the defensive stance. Im fine with parsing just above the healers as long as i know i can keep hate on at least 1 target.</p><p>Our offensive stance should be intended to be used as a means of increasing dps when not tanking or in group zones where you just do more damage and kill things quickly and NOT be used as a primary way of gaining hate through the dps=hate criteria.</p>

[Avianna]

<p>1.) I think our hold the line should generate a small amount of AoE hate every time WE as guardians hit a mob this would be very effective at solving our hate issue.</p><p>2.) Make all our taunts AoE Encounter taunts.</p><p>There is my 2c</p>

[Raahl]

<p><cite>liken wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>First off, i dont beg or sit on my knees and pray for things to change. The ratarts that make this game happen daily are Well aware of the state of the Guardless class. So, stop giving ideas on how to fix what they see as not broken. You can roll a dice on what class is the raid MT these days. The MT jobs are all taken and things are running as intended. Seems to me we are overlooking the brawler class. Any plate tank is now the MT. SK currently the best. Brawlers can now be a viable OT, and they are bad azz. It seems to me that All "fighter" classes now have a roll in EQ2. That my fellow Guards was and is their intention all along. SK's will be the top MT for the next 365 days or more. You can sit and wait or basically lvl up a SK to 90 and be a bad azz MT. If you are into being the red head step kid, by all means keep posting here.</p></blockquote><p>Thanks for your insightful and extremely helpful post.  ;p</p><p>Personally I'm starting to think I should campaign to get Brawlers the MT slot next for raids in the next expansion.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Yimway]

<p>Keep in mind there are far bigger issues out there that need attention on class balancing, and SOE doesn't have the resources to fix even 50% of them.</p><p>The class is what it is, and it wont change before the next xpac, and I don't honestly believe it will change then.</p><p>Either eat this crap sandwich and say you like the taste, or find a new class, cause having any expectation that Xelgad will read a thread, agree a change is needed, and find time to actually make a change, is simply a grossly inaccurate expectation.</p><p>There are simply bigger fish to fry with bards, enchanters, and summoners that he/she can't seem to get done.  Remember Xelgad is one person in a position that reasonably should be 2-4 people to get it right.</p>

[Shorcon]

<p><cite>Digg@Permafrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Raahl wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Suggestion #2:  Increase the effectiveness of our Hold the Line ability.  Currently we have to be hit to have a chance at proc'ing a taunt.  My suggestion would be to change the Guardian AA ability Enhance Intercept to be Enhance Hold the Line with each level giving a 3-4% increase in the chance to proc the taunt each time a guardian is hit.</p></blockquote><p>It should not work off of being hit tbh, this is the worst mechanic for hate generation in game. The idea is to avoid inc damage to be the "best" defensive tank in game. The actuall ability itself needs to be changed.</p></blockquote><p>This is another change that came when avoidance became crucial for pure/hybrid tanks. It kinda ruined hold the line. Hold the line needs to be proc 50% every time you dodge/parry/riposte/block(aa can be spent for this now)/or get hit.</p><p>Edited to add: We also need to bow snaps with short cooldowns. This will make up for the hybrid ability to pull loose mobs back to them without kiting the rest of the encouter accross the raid.</p><p>Edited to add: We also need our mit cap raised to 85%.</p>

[Shorcon]

<p><cite>Raahl wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Digg@Permafrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Raahl wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Suggestion #2:  Increase the effectiveness of our Hold the Line ability.  Currently we have to be hit to have a chance at proc'ing a taunt.  My suggestion would be to change the Guardian AA ability Enhance Intercept to be Enhance Hold the Line with each level giving a 3-4% increase in the chance to proc the taunt each time a guardian is hit.</p></blockquote><p>It should not work off of being hit tbh, this is the worst mechanic for hate generation in game. The idea is to avoid inc damage to be the "best" defensive tank in game. The actuall ability itself needs to be changed.</p></blockquote><p>Well don't we pretty much always get hit?  Especially in higher end encounters?  Now I could see problems occuring with not being hit the closer mobs get to grey.  Hmmm.  But I will agree with you, I've never been that excited about the mechanics of HTL. </p><p>HTL use to take power each proc, is this still the case?</p></blockquote><p>I constantly avoid damage on end game content. Which means I avoid using HTL.</p>

[Shorcon]

<p><cite>Feldorm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote> most guardians acknowledge our speciality is not in AE aggro.</blockquote><p>This was fine when pure tanks were guardian/zerk. AE aggro is something entirely different now. It's off the charts.</p>

[Shorcon]

<p><cite>Toranx@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Not bashing the thread Raahl and I applaud your effort but there is like 10 other ones floating around like this. In beta there was very good suggestions made and none have been acted upon or the class even adjusted since then. I simply have no hope at all that the threat disparity between guards and other plate tanks will be brought in line.</p><p>Basically the deference in our DPS compared to the other plate tanks should be made up in TPS. I don't mind parsing t3-t2 as long as the TPS is there to make up for the deference.</p></blockquote><p>Exactly. We dont want to dps like the hybrids. We want to tank like the pures. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Shorcon]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Keep in mind there are far bigger issues out there that need attention on class balancing, and SOE doesn't have the resources to fix even 50% of them.</p><p>The class is what it is, and it wont change before the next xpac, and I don't honestly believe it will change then.</p><p>Either eat this crap sandwich and say you like the taste, or find a new class, cause having any expectation that Xelgad will read a thread, agree a change is needed, and find time to actually make a change, is simply a grossly inaccurate expectation.</p><p>There are simply bigger fish to fry with bards, enchanters, and summoners that he/she can't seem to get done.  Remember Xelgad is one person in a position that reasonably should be 2-4 people to get it right.</p></blockquote><p>While I agree the job should have more than 1 person on post I disagree with bigger fish theory. There is no single post on the forums that is as active as the guardian situation. This being said guardians are under 900 world population. Second lowest worldwide population with the most forum activity. All the activity is complaints to the guardians gameplay. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />    You are the man Atan. We need you in this fight helping for change.</p>

[Emlar_from_Halas]

<p>On yesterday parses, Hold the Line generated an average of 2.9K Threat plus 1.9K for Aggressive Nature (Shadow AA adding hate to each block).Not bad for a passive buff.</p>

[Shorcon]

<p><cite>Emlar@Storms wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>On yesterday parses, Hold the Line generated an average of 2.9K Threat plus 1.9K for Aggressive Nature (Shadow AA adding hate to each block).Not bad for a passive buff.</p></blockquote><p>It is when That passive buff is supposed to generate a majority of your hate in multiple mob encounters while you are tanking. In a Gaurdian MT position with an Hybrid OT this is a good part of the reason we loose agro do strickly dps OT. No snaps from the ot. No cooldowns from the ot. Just straight up dps. This before the revamp to avoidance used to proc insane hate because we actualy got hit. Now we could never get hit as much as we used to by design. They never revamped HTL to match this criteria. We can block proc it through aa but even then HTL is only parseing moderat amounts.</p>

[RafaelSmith]

<p>HTL needs to be upgraded to be in line with how the mechanics of the game work today.  Its outdated.  As a Guardian my goal is to be hit as little and take as little dmg as possible.....thats what a Def tank does........to have what is suppose to be one of our primary threat generators based entirely on being hit is backass.</p><p>Personally I would prefer it be a temp buff that did alot more than it currently does. </p><p>--Some way(AA) to turn it into an AE proc (kinda like the MB gear pieces) perhaps.</p><p>...</p><p>Also I think threat generation (TPS) should be equal for all fighters(ST and AE)..........its where that T comes from that should differ....in the case of Guard it needs to come mostly from taunts and +threat, procs, etc not DPS.........in the case of SK it comes mostly from DPS.......but in the end it should be equal for both AE and ST.</p><p>SF did implement some boosts to the effectivness of taunts but they are still woefully lagging behind straight DPS.</p><p>--All our taunts need at a minimum to be double what they currently are.</p><p>I also agree that our Def stance is a joke.  Probably 20 different ways to improve it. </p><p>--Raw hate modifier to all taunts and +threat would help.</p><p>...</p><p>Tanking in O-stance should be a viable option for all fighters but the panalty in doing so needs to be much greater than it is.(for all fighters)  </p><p>--As a Gaurdian, I would like an AA that turned our single target CAs, etc into AE if we are wielding a 2hander....but tack on some sorta increase to DMG taken.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>While I agree the job should have more than 1 person on post I disagree with bigger fish theory. There is no single post on the forums that is as active as the guardian situation. This being said guardians are under 900 world population. Second lowest worldwide population with the most forum activity. All the activity is complaints to the guardians gameplay. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />    You are the man Atan. We need you in this fight helping for change.</p></blockquote><p>I'm just a realist.  I've been playing and raid MTing in the SoE franchise since its inception.  I've been a member of the EQ2 Influencer's program, I'm friends with some devs, and I've spent more time examining classes and game mechanics than nearly any other players.</p><p>All that being said, I have 0 expectation that anything will be done to the class before the next expansion, and given the total lack of communication on guardians in the previous beta where I and others brought up the exact issues that are the forefront of the class issues on the live forums now. I just don't see any reason to have hope.</p><p>I simply can not advocate for anyone who is not a raid MT to stay with the class.  I can't advocate for optimism that anything will ever be fixed.  I'll continue to provide feedback when and where feedback will be evaluated, but in my experience, to have any optimism or hope that anything will be done is foolish.</p><p>I am 100% sure you or anyone can roll up another toon in a class you enjoy playing more and have it 90/250, mastered, fully fabled, before anything is done to address class issues.</p><p>I do want to encourage people to enjoy playing the game first and foremost, do not hold out hope for anything to be changed, as you're setting yourself up for dissapointment.</p>

[Draylore]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shorcon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>While I agree the job should have more than 1 person on post I disagree with bigger fish theory. There is no single post on the forums that is as active as the guardian situation. This being said guardians are under 900 world population. Second lowest worldwide population with the most forum activity. All the activity is complaints to the guardians gameplay. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> You are the man Atan. We need you in this fight helping for change.</p></blockquote><p>I'm just a realist. I've been playing and raid MTing in the SoE franchise since its inception. I've been a member of the EQ2 Influencer's program, I'm friends with some devs, and I've spent more time examining classes and game mechanics than nearly any other players.</p><p>All that being said, I have 0 expectation that anything will be done to the class before the next expansion, and given the total lack of communication on guardians in the previous beta where I and others brought up the exact issues that are the forefront of the class issues on the live forums now. I just don't see any reason to have hope.</p><p>I simply can not advocate for anyone who is not a raid MT to stay with the class. I can't advocate for optimism that anything will ever be fixed. I'll continue to provide feedback when and where feedback will be evaluated, but in my experience, to have any optimism or hope that anything will be done is foolish.</p><p>I am 100% sure you or anyone can roll up another toon in a class you enjoy playing more and have it 90/250, mastered, fully fabled, before anything is done to address class issues.</p><p>I do want to encourage people to enjoy playing the game first and foremost, do not hold out hope for anything to be changed, as you're setting yourself up for dissapointment.</p></blockquote><p>QFE</p><p>Its time for those of use that are not already grandfathered into MT raid slots in progression level guilds to reroll or quit.</p><p>While I haven't had the contact with SOE Devs you have I did play EQ1 for 6+ years where I was MT for a guild and now EQ2 off and on since its launch and ive learned to recognize the type of issues SOE even acknowledges let alone fixes and the type they ignore.  I have zero faith that they even think there is anything wrong with Guardian or fighter balance....so even less faith anything will be corrected.</p><p>The game has evolved to a point where its a hybrid world nomatter your classes intended role.  Classes like Guard simply do not fit nor have a place in EQ2 today.     Players want things fast and easy ....thats counter to everything that defines a Guard.</p>

[Wastura]

<p><cite>Draylore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I am 100% sure you or anyone can roll up another toon in a class you enjoy playing more and have it 90/250, mastered, fully fabled, before anything is done to address class issues.</p><p>I do want to encourage people to enjoy playing the game first and foremost, do not hold out hope for anything to be changed, as you're setting yourself up for dissapointment.</p></blockquote><p>QFE</p><p>Its time for those of use that are not already grandfathered into MT raid slots in progression level guilds to reroll or quit.</p></blockquote><p>I hate to say it, but I think that's about the entirety of it. I am not in a progression guild (we host a few PUR's) and while I am MT for those, we're hitting previous teir content that's more than easy enough for a hybrid tank to survive. Even if I were in a progression guild, I would imagine eventually it will trivialize and again my slot would be gone. Think maybe reroll for the best. Any recommendations?</p><p>I'm scared to roll an SK for fear that they'll be nerfed before I can get one to caps. That's how it always seems to work.</p><p>Actually, with that in mind I hereby proclaim I will fix the guardian problem by playing an SK so that SOE will nerf. Of course, they'll be passing the mantle to monks though, since I don't have one.</p>

[Draylore]

<p><cite>Amilia@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Draylore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I am 100% sure you or anyone can roll up another toon in a class you enjoy playing more and have it 90/250, mastered, fully fabled, before anything is done to address class issues.</p><p>I do want to encourage people to enjoy playing the game first and foremost, do not hold out hope for anything to be changed, as you're setting yourself up for dissapointment.</p></blockquote><p>QFE</p><p>Its time for those of use that are not already grandfathered into MT raid slots in progression level guilds to reroll or quit.</p></blockquote><p>I hate to say it, but I think that's about the entirety of it. I am not in a progression guild (we host a few PUR's) and while I am MT for those, we're hitting previous teir content that's more than easy enough for a hybrid tank to survive. Even if I were in a progression guild, I would imagine eventually it will trivialize and again my slot would be gone. Think maybe reroll for the best. Any recommendations?</p><p>I'm scared to roll an SK for fear that they'll be nerfed before I can get one to caps. That's how it always seems to work.</p><p>Actually, with that in mind I hereby proclaim I will fix the guardian problem by playing an SK so that SOE will nerf. Of course, they'll be passing the mantle to monks though, since I don't have one.</p></blockquote><p>Well if your dead set on playing a MT then perhaps betray to Zerker?  I know our MT Zerker is solid for raids and he has fun running instances, x2, etc.</p><p>Personally I decided to give up on playing a tank.....trying to get into any serious raid slot is next to impossible unless you already have a avenue for any fighter.......worse for Guard sure but still not something I wanted to have to deal with. </p><p>SK would be the last one I would choose simply because the class really has become a joke.....I sorta feel bad for long term SK players that have to live now with the reputation the class and its players has gotten since TSO and how any [Removed for Content] can roll an SK can be effective.</p>