Taunt Immunity

[Scythien]

<p>I know this is gonna be seen as another whine/wah wah post but hear me out at least.</p><p>Taunts need to have a short duration immunity added to them, 3-5 seconds say.</p><p>How things are working now, especially after the resists 'fix', Tanks can take huge amounts of damage. Fine. Healers can heal said damage. Fine. How to win? Kill the healer, then kill the tank. Again, all seems fine to me. The problem? Tanks have plenty of taunting and aggro locking ability, making it almost impossible to target anything else apart from the tank.</p><p>If there was a short taunt immunity added, then it would at least give the team a few seconds to pewpew the healer before the tank plays taunttaunt again.</p><p>I've been in many-a-Ganak where a tank & healer duo grabs the flag.* And no matter how many people jump on them, they will never die. If both teams have a combo like this then no flag will get captured. In fact I just got out of one where a Pally and Zerker had the flags and the game went the full duration with neither dieing. I may also point out that the top 4 damage dealt was all by rangers :p.</p><p>I don't know how much the GU56 will change this. Maybe it wouldn't be needed but i'm sick of being forced to pewpew tanks and watching their healthbar remain static.</p><p>Another beef I have with Ganak is when defending the flag. A BG buffed bard can jump in at 80+ runspeed, nab the flag and run off in seconds. As soon as I stick 1 nuke/arrow/etc in them I'm doomed to 0 runspeed and watch them sprint off happily at full speed. Imo attacking someone should enter both people into combat mode.</p><p>Flame on <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p><span style="font-size: xx-small;">Nerf crusaders.</span></p>

[Yimway]

<p>1) Taunting is the game, out range the taunt, kill the healer.</p><p>1b) There is a charm that offers 10s taunt immunity</p><p>2) As stated in many, many threads already, holding the flag should be a hostile action and lock the player holding it in combat until it is lost.  I've yet to hear a reasonable arguement for why this shouldn't be the case.</p>

[Shorcon]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1) Taunting is the game, out range the taunt, kill the healer.</p><p>1b) There is a charm that offers 10s taunt immunity</p><p>2) As stated in many, many threads already, holding the flag should be a hostile action and lock the player holding it in combat until it is lost.  I've yet to hear a reasonable arguement for why this shouldn't be the case.</p></blockquote><p>I believe taunts should not be able to be avoided through immunity by charm imo. One charm that procs 2 per min i guess i can live with though. I guess. To reduce taunt would be the death of some classes in battlegrounds. Gaurdian for 1 would be 100% useless in battlegrounds.</p><p>I have also taken part in the good ole FC not being placed into combat after one enemy engages them in any manner. It doesn't seem to be a big concern for alot of people. This stops some classes from even being able to cut off the FC and slow them down in any manner. Gaurdian for 1. I can use plant but most FC have either an immunity running through a healer or self. If not they have charms and freedom pots. Sucks as it is. The FC should atleast loose run speed when they get the flag. Allow them their out of combat regens if ya want but the runspeed is a little over the top. Not only do you have to cc them, you also have to kill them. In the 90 BG's with a minimal of 3 clears on cc this can in many cases be impossible. charm,charm,pot.</p>

[Tehom]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1) Taunting is the game, out range the taunt, kill the healer.</p><p>1b) There is a charm that offers 10s taunt immunity</p><p>2) As stated in many, many threads already, holding the flag should be a hostile action and lock the player holding it in combat until it is lost.  I've yet to hear a reasonable arguement for why this shouldn't be the case.</p></blockquote><p>And yet every other control ability that's AE also allows you to be out of range, and yet has immunity timers. If you bring up that it's a class specific/defining role, well, so is CC for enchanters, and they have immunity timers.</p>

[Dojac]

<p>Taunts are a form of CC.  All other forms of CC have an immunity timer to them.  Here are my thoughts.</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=476884" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=476884</a></p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Dojac@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Taunts are a form of CC.  All other forms of CC have an immunity timer to them.  Here are my thoughts.</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=476884" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=476884</a></p></blockquote><p>I disagree, it isn't the same as CC, its has similar components, but locking your target is not remotely the same as mez/stun/stiffle.</p><p>True CC components remove your ability to perform actions, taunt simply prevents you from doing actions to other targets for a durration.</p><p>Similar, yes, classing as CC, not quite in my book.</p>

[Killque]

<p>Capturing the flag and holding the flag should put you in combat. I do not however agree with the being attacked putting you in combat.</p>

[StaticLex]

<p><cite>Scythienne@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As soon as I stick 1 nuke/arrow/etc in them I'm doomed to 0 runspeed and watch them sprint off happily at full speed. Imo attacking someone should enter both people into combat mode.</p></blockquote><p>I completely agree with this.</p><p>Edit:  Grabbing the flag puts the person into combat mode would be sufficient also.</p>

[Dojac]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dojac@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Taunts are a form of CC.  All other forms of CC have an immunity timer to them.  Here are my thoughts.</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=476884" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=476884</a></p></blockquote><p>I disagree, it isn't the same as CC, its has similar components, but locking your target is not remotely the same as mez/stun/stiffle.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">True CC components remove your ability to perform actions</span>, taunt simply prevents you from doing actions to other targets for a durration.</p><p>Similar, yes, classing as CC, not quite in my book.</p></blockquote><p>I would classify changing targets as an action.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Dojac@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote></blockquote><p>I would classify changing targets as an action.</p></blockquote><p>You might, but I contend that since every ability your character has is still at your disposal, its not the same as CC abilities.  You simply don't get to chose the softest target.</p><p>Ultimately though, its what the class mechanics dev thinks, and I'll be shocked if he agrees with you <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Blaidd]

<p>Hell taunts are spells so make them resistable. Casters got nerfed into the last century with the amount of spells resisted (roots still fail 99% of teh time) yet they were the best chance to tanks with cc etc. Taunts are a form of CC so why not make them resistable?</p>

[babygirl56]

Agreed...you should at least get a chance to resist that perma-taunt that never goes away...base it on wisdom or something <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[bartb]

<p><cite>Ysbryd@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hell taunts are spells so make them resistable. Casters got nerfed into the last century with the amount of spells resisted (roots still fail 99% of teh time) yet they were the best chance to tanks with cc etc. Taunts are a form of CC so why not make them resistable?</p></blockquote><p>Umm taunts are spells as you stated so they also come under the spell nerf, and ive noticed a lot more resists on taunts, they also can be cured off unlike a nuke.</p>

[babygirl56]

Now which one of those 39 detrimentals is the perma-taunt target lock...hmmm...whats all this spam "You are currently restricted from casting on another target"...hmmm...ok try a pot...darn, it cured that other det...o...wait...I'm dead...so i guess it doesn't matter...lol!

[knightofround]

<p>I would actually be in favor of taunt immunity timers, as long as they increased the duration of the target lock to compensate. It would just be a matter of how much duration is added and how large of an immunity timer.</p><p>Keep in mind, this would not be all taunts, only *target locks*. Many taunts essentially force the player to tab-target, and they can simply tab back to their original target with a single key stroke.</p><p>Currently most target locks are 3 second duration abilities. If they boosted them to lock for 6 seconds and then provide an immunity for 6 seconds, I'd be all for it.</p>

[babygirl56]

I still think it should be a resist issue based upon each class's resist to spell damage...after all, a taunt crits like a spell, so why not treat the resist to it like any other spell?

[Dojac]

<p><cite>bartb wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ysbryd@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hell taunts are spells so make them resistable. Casters got nerfed into the last century with the amount of spells resisted (roots still fail 99% of teh time) yet they were the best chance to tanks with cc etc. Taunts are a form of CC so why not make them resistable?</p></blockquote><p>Umm taunts are spells as you stated so they also come under the spell nerf, and ive noticed a lot more resists on taunts, they also can be cured off unlike a nuke.</p></blockquote><p>Lol you didn't understand the spell nerf then.  Resistability did not get a boost, spell damage is now mitigated by resists no damage associated with being taunted therefore no affect on the actual taunts with the nerf.</p>

[Dojac]

<p><cite>babygirl56 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I still think it should be a resist issue based upon each class's resist to spell damage...after all, a taunt crits like a spell, so why not treat the resist to it like any other spell?</blockquote><p>If they were a cureable det it would help alot too.</p>

[babygirl56]

If the coding for resisting taunts as a spell is too complex, why not make it so that if I'm taunted, my heals go to the tank's current target? I have noticed that healing "thru" a mob works quite well in instances, so why not make it the same in BG's? That way tanks can taunt their little hearts out, still cast "perma-lock" taunts, and my heals go where they are needed...on whoever is getting beat up! Seems like a win/win to me! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Valind]

<p><cite>knightofround wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Currently most target locks are 3 second duration abilities. If they boosted them to lock for 6 seconds and then provide an immunity for 6 seconds, I'd be all for it.</p></blockquote><p>No. You want immunity to taunts, kill the tank.</p><p><cite>Dojac@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>babygirl56 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I still think it should be a resist issue based upon each class's resist to spell damage...after all, a taunt crits like a spell, so why not treat the resist to it like any other spell?</blockquote><p>If they were a cureable det it would help alot too.</p></blockquote><p>Firstly, taunts in PvP don't crit. Or more acurrately, they DO crit, but a crit taunt does exactly the same thing as a non-crit taunt. Having said that, your point is moot because there is already a method to increase your chance to resist a taunt. Taunts are a contested check between your aggression and the person taunting you. Want less taunts? Increase your aggression skill.</p><p>Making taunts curable is a stupid idea. The entire idea behind taunts is to have people hitting the tank and NOT hitting the significantly more squishy people he is protecting. There are already so many ways around taunts. Sanctuary makes everyone in the group immune to target change effects. AoE avoidance means the tank has to target you specifically. Staying out of range means you can't be taunted. The best taunt warriors get is their reactive one, STOP HITTING THEM.</p><p><cite>babygirl56 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>If the coding for resisting taunts as a spell is too complex, why not make it so that if I'm taunted, my heals go to the tank's current target? I have noticed that healing "thru" a mob works quite well in instances, so why not make it the same in BG's? That way tanks can taunt their little hearts out, still cast "perma-lock" taunts, and my heals go where they are needed...on whoever is getting beat up! Seems like a win/win to me! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote><p>This is actually exactly how things work currently. The reason you are unable to cast a heal is because that tank is targetting someone who is not your friend. You try to cast your heal, it checks your target, which is the tank. You can't heal the enemy tank, so it checks his target. Nope, he's assisting through one of the scouts in the group, you can't heal the enemy scout, so it tells you he isnt your friend and you can't cast.</p><p>That is how it works.</p><p>Way back, you could actually set up macros to cast on a specific target, and being taunted wouldn't matter. I knew healers who had entire hotbars set up to let them cast through taunts. It basically made tanks into weak DPS, because they would taunt and people would hit their buttons with targets macro'd in. When an entire group has your healer as their target, you cant taunt them off, that healer is going to die. THAT is why Sony changed taunts to not allow you to cast on anyone else when taunted. Your group heals still work, use them. It's inconvenient not being able to cast your single-target stuff onto your target of choice, but being insta-popped by every group you run into is alot more inconvenient.</p><p>Im sorry, but you guys want to take us back into the past. This stuff was taken out for good reasons, and it should not be put back in simply because you don't like being taunted. Suck it up! </p>

[Krinta]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1b) There is a charm that offers 10s taunt immunity</p></blockquote><p>Having to buy items just to do PvP is so dumb tho... Totems and things I can see.. they have a use out of PvP and last way way longer so that is more of the players pick if they want it or not..</p><p>IMO... After a player is taunted say 5 times in one min, they are then immune to all taunts for 30 sec's.... No.. the numbers are not spot on but... hey is something to get others thinking....</p><p>I can't stand when I need to take out a healer, and the tank keeps taunting 10 people while him and the healer stand there and laugh none stop.... more so Wardens there myth power ability seems just too powerful in PvP... no way one warden should be able to heal none stop for 5 mins and use no power in pvp...</p><p>Yeah people will say... oh scouts need to drain the wardens power... no problem... wait.. cant target it with the tank taunting none stop... oh CC the tank... sure... lets try and get everone to stop beating on him long enough to do that...</p>

[dr4gonUK]

<p><cite>Valindor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No. You want immunity to taunts, kill the tank. </p></blockquote><p>This.</p>

[Valind]

<p><cite>Krinta@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>IMO... <span style="color: #ff0000;">After a player is taunted say 5 times in one min, they are then immune to all taunts for 30 sec's</span>.... No.. the numbers are not spot on but... hey is something to get others thinking....</p><p>I can't stand when I need to take out a healer, and the tank keeps taunting 10 people while him and the healer stand there and laugh none stop.... more so Wardens there myth power ability seems just too powerful in PvP... no way one warden should be able to heal none stop for 5 mins and use no power in pvp...</p><p>Yeah people will say... oh scouts need to drain the wardens power... no problem... wait.. cant target it with the tank taunting none stop... oh CC the tank... sure... lets try and get everone to stop beating on him long enough to do that...</p></blockquote><p>OK GUYS! ONCE YOU GET HIT 5 TIMES IN ONE MIN YOU ARE IMMUNE TO ALL DAMAGE FOR 30 SECS!!!!1!!1~!1OK GUYS! ONCE YOU GET HEALD 5 TIMES IN ONE MIN YOU ARE IMMUNE TO ALL HEALS FOR 30 SECS!!!!1!!1~!1Taunting is the primary role of a fighter. Fighters are SUPPOSED to taunt. Its what they do. If 10 people can't kill a single tank and healer combo, then the whole lot of you need to /wrists tbh. ONE good scout is enough to kill a healer, its not the tank's fault that you're too horrible to kill him. Also, MEZ is the only CC that requires you to stop beating on the tank. Try a stiffle some time.</p>

[Dojac]

<p><cite>Valindor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>knightofround wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Currently most target locks are 3 second duration abilities. If they boosted them to lock for 6 seconds and then provide an immunity for 6 seconds, I'd be all for it.</p></blockquote><p>No. You want immunity to taunts, kill the tank.</p><p><cite>Dojac@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>babygirl56 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I still think it should be a resist issue based upon each class's resist to spell damage...after all, a taunt crits like a spell, so why not treat the resist to it like any other spell?</blockquote><p>If they were a cureable det it would help alot too.</p></blockquote><p>Firstly, taunts in PvP don't crit. Or more acurrately, they DO crit, but a crit taunt does exactly the same thing as a non-crit taunt. Having said that, your point is moot because there is already a method to increase your chance to resist a taunt. <span style="color: #ff0000;">Taunts are a contested check between your aggression and the person taunting you. Want less taunts? Increase your aggression skill.</span></p><p>Making taunts curable is a stupid idea. The entire idea behind taunts is to have people hitting the tank and NOT hitting the significantly more squishy people he is protecting. There are already so many ways around taunts. Sanctuary makes everyone in the group immune to target change effects. AoE avoidance means the tank has to target you specifically. Staying out of range means you can't be taunted. The best taunt warriors get is their reactive one, STOP HITTING THEM.</p></blockquote><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/0a4d7238daa496a758252d0a2b1a1384.gif" border="0" /><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/0a4d7238daa496a758252d0a2b1a1384.gif" border="0" /><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/0a4d7238daa496a758252d0a2b1a1384.gif" border="0" />....  First off not every class has agression as a stat.  Second your understanding of the agression mechanics is off.  Non-avoidance based skills have nothing to do with incoming anything, they all modify outgoing spells and CAs.  Increasing your agression has nothing to do with your ability to resist taunts, the only thing aggression does is increase the likelyhood that your taunts will land. </p><p>You go on about about taunts being the primary role of a fighter.  Well CC is the primary role for enchanters and that got nerfed to the stone ages long ago.  The "primary role" argument is moot until you advocate giving me my full CC timers back without imunities.</p>

[Scythien]

<p><cite>Valindor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No. You want immunity to taunts, kill the tank.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I would, but healers (and a gazillion lifetaps) can often outheal the incoming dps. I'd try and get the healer but I'm forever locked to the tank, or tanks bouncing aggro everywhere.</span></p><p>There are already so many ways around taunts. Sanctuary makes everyone in the group immune to target change effects.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Provided you have a templar every game.</span></p><p>AoE avoidance means the tank has to target you specifically.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Should you be one of the classes that can spec for it, or be fortunate to have a bard speccing Bladedance (lol.. dream on). Even then, these are only short term immunities.</span></p><p>Staying out of range means you can't be taunted.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">But you can be easily picked off as now you are likely to be out of range of your own tank's taunts. If you are lucky to live, I doubt you could take down a healer in full swing all by yourself.</span></p><p>The best taunt warriors get is their reactive one, STOP HITTING THEM.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">So going back to your first point to 'kill the tank'. How does one do so without hitting them? Kill the healer? Yea, I would if I wasn't taunted back to the tank again..</span></p>This stuff was taken out for good reasons, and it should not be put back in simply because you don't like being taunted. Suck it up!<p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I bet you play a tank class</span> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote>

[Valind]

<p>Yes, I play a tank. Last expansion I was a templar, the 3 before that I was a Troubador. And I'm looking at changing to a Fury main shortly. So what?</p><p>Nice job completely missing the point BTW. If you're trying to burn the tank down, why do you care that you're taunted? He's locking you onto the guy you want to kill anyways? As for staying out of range, whats to stop you from running away for 3 seconds to get rid of the target lock, turning around, mezzing (or stunning, fear etc) the healer then blowing the tank up?</p><p>As far as healers being able to keep the tanks alive, LOLOLOLOL! Thats what they're supposed to do. The whole idea in PvP is for tanks to taunt, healers to heal and DPS to get away from the tanks and try to kill the squishies. Thats how its been on PvP servers since KoS launch. Its worked this whole time with no complaints (about taunts) and yet now its a problem?</p>

[Oakum]

<p><cite>Krinta@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1b) There is a charm that offers 10s taunt immunity</p></blockquote><p>Having to buy items just to do PvP is so dumb tho... Totems and things I can see.. they have a use out of PvP and last way way longer so that is more of the players pick if they want it or not..</p><p>IMO... After a player is taunted say 5 times in one min, they are then immune to all taunts for 30 sec's.... No.. the numbers are not spot on but... hey is something to get others thinking....</p><p>I can't stand when I need to take out a healer, and the tank keeps taunting 10 people while him and the healer stand there and laugh none stop.... more so Wardens there myth power ability seems just too powerful in PvP... no way one warden should be able to heal none stop for 5 mins and use no power in pvp...</p><p>Yeah people will say... oh scouts need to drain the wardens power... no problem... wait.. cant target it with the tank taunting none stop... oh CC the tank... sure... lets try and get everone to stop beating on him long enough to do that...</p></blockquote><p>LoL, I guess you didnt hear about the power proc heal with SF. The only way I keep power up for that long is if the mage ring i have procs a whole bunch (which means I am dead any way from being the target of a scout or two) and there is a chanter in the group to feed power constantly with at least their group buff.</p><p>I have ran out of power several times defending the center tower in raid bg or just constant fighting/healing in the group version. Thats why I have a mana stone and potions too. I need to raise my tinkering skill to be able to use the tinkered stones too though if I plan on doing a lot more BG's to maybe gear up my alts or something.</p><p>EDIT: Taunt question for the PVP devs. Is it an exploit when a tank will taunt and then fd clearing you and your groups target and still leave you taunt locked on an empty target? Some brawlers seem to do this a lot in some of the BG's and I suppose SK's could do it some too if they wanted.</p>