Ranger not so bad [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Shade Slayer

04-29-2010, 09:57 PM

Well I'm a level 75 Ranger on Nagafen. I love playing a Ranger. I've speced my aa for a sick snare, crits, and really nasty snipe shot. I have a nice PvP record also. From the complaints, I gather that the gripe is mainly Ranger's alleged lack of damage compared to other classes. My problem is that some classes are extremely OP (Shadow Knight and some healing classes). What I'm saying is that perhaps a Ranger is where it should be while other classes are too OP and therefore taking the raid/ group slots. Good thing I don't mind soloing.

Sydares

04-30-2010, 04:08 AM

No offense, but really - until you're 90 and in a raid situation, you're absolutely correct. Rangers are fine. But that's where things fall apart. We're not competitive enough with similarly geared players and offer zero utility to offset that fact. Basically, see how you feel about it at 90 and come back.

Neiloch

04-30-2010, 09:23 AM

Well he is kind of right rangers usually do very well in PvP. I've been doing A LOT of BG's lately and I've yet to do poorly and I have zero toughness gear. I got about 4 guildees who made ranger alts just to play BG's. Its just in raiding we are severely lacking, otherwise I would say we are fine. I think this is one of the bigger reasons we aren't getting immediate attention, we are at least on par when it comes to 'casual' facets of gameplay and there focus on that has shifted that way a lot lately. They aren't terribly concerned with PvE raiding problems imo, evident by having BG's added and only about 2 days/6 hours worth of raiding content this xpac.

Carpediem

04-30-2010, 10:34 AM

Honestly all they would really need to do is lower our cast/recast timers to fix us having to stand at melee range and up the damage of our CA's by 30% and we would probably be ok. It isn't a hard fix, so I don't know what the hold up is.At the start of fights I'm normally doing ok on dps, it's when I run out of ranged CA's and have to start using melee that my dps drops. We have to many AA that boost melee CA's instead of ranged as well. If they want us to be more ranged they will need to look into that.Most devs don't raid at all, so they're looking at things from the casual side, but even there, when I group with an SK and see them parsing 45-50k on multi mob encounters while I'm doing 20-25k there is something wrong.

Neiloch

04-30-2010, 06:08 PM

Still would like to see ranged variations of our most powerful melee CA's given. Not through AA's or anything, just added. This if not just converting them to ranged completely. Then the AA's we do have that improved the melee versions also improve the ranged variation. In addition to a damage increase. I don't think utility is nearly as bad off. The Assassin hate transfer is nice but that's most definitely NOT why people bring assassins along. With all these 'brawler' mobs I have found myself leaning on Focus Aim a lot harder just for the hit rate increase and weapon skill increase.

Venez

04-30-2010, 07:07 PM

Hmm so your a monk with a alt ranger on a PVP server and not yet 90..........Start a Ranger on a PVE server, level him up, TRY to find a top raid guild on ANY server, come back and put your 2cents in after you are blown off the parse by wizzys, swashys, assassins, warlocks, summoners and SKs in certain situations. Untill then please go back to your pvp alt.

Shade Slayer

05-01-2010, 07:20 AM

<cite>Venez@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hmm so your a monk with a alt ranger on a PVP server and not yet 90..........Start a Ranger on a PVE server, level him up, TRY to find a top raid guild on ANY server, come back and put your 2cents in after you are blown off the parse by wizzys, swashys, assassins, warlocks, summoners and SKs in certain situations. Untill then please go back to your pvp alt.</blockquote>The Ranger is my main. I abandonned my old main and all my characters are now on PvP. I'll never play on PvE again because I'd be missing an entire aspect of the game. On Nagafen, your city allignment has real meaning. Whatever level I am, I have every right to post what I posted because every bit is true. No need for you to get sensitive about it. I'd rather see the Shadow Knight be leashed than get a damage increase honestly. It's more needed.

Neiloch

05-01-2010, 12:12 PM

Yeah then we would only be getting ridiculously beat by about 6 classes instead of 7. SK's do have some OP issues but SK's beating us on some stuff is the least of our problems. Even with the addition to battlegrounds and the upcoming GU, EQ2 is still overwhelmingly PvE content, and any balance done should have that at the forefront. Soloing should simply be looked at as "Can this class solo? yes/no", and tweaking/balance should be done with grouping and raiding in mind. We've already been screwed by them balancing PvP on us and having it apply to PvE as well.Reason I Don't play on PvP is it makes me miss out on every other aspect except for PvP. When you have open PvP is makes everything else PvP. Quests, soloing, open zone groups or raids, all are quite suddenly PvP. I enjoy PvP and participate in BG's but the SECOND its forced upon me, its the worst thing I can possibly think of in a MMO.Like Venez said, get 90, and try to do some PvE raids. You will find yourself quite lacking unless everyone else has mostly worse equipment. Then again on a PvP server you can just PK for tokens and buy raid level loot from a vendor last I checked.I'm sure this is why the devs aren't rushing to fix our problems, especially with the new focus on PvP they seem to have. They see rangers doing fine in PvP, solo, and pick up groups. We know any raiding they do is minimal at best so why would they care about raiding performance. I'm on the verge of quitting this game for [Removed for Content] Vanguard. At least what little content they do add is PvE raiding. EQ2 is WoW competition so they are going to do w/e ever they can to match or steal numbers from WoW.

Striikor

05-01-2010, 12:40 PM

That is why I hate BG. Call for nerfing another class you have no interest in rather than for getting your own fixed. Thats the predictable PvP mindset and juvenile I think. They way Rangers are treated you would think this entire game were based on PvP. The freakin PvP is what started the ranger nerfs IMO. They should have let WoW keep it.

Sydares

05-01-2010, 01:17 PM

<cite>Shade Slayer wrote:</cite><blockquote> Whatever level I am, I have every right to post what I posted because every bit is true.</blockquote>No. Hit 90, and explore other aspects of the game aside from PvP, as those are where our complaints lie. In PvP, we're a fairly balanced class - we have the potential to do a lot of damage from range and torment cloth-wearers, but the instant we're brought into melee range, we become pathetic. That's actually pretty balanced as far as I'm concerned.People aren't upset because we can't hold our own in PvP - we're upset about the lackluster DPS we can put out in PvE situations comparable to other classes that bring far more desirability to the table. For instance, if there's a great ranger and a great swashbuckler, why bring both? One of them brings debuffs, a hate transfer, and massive AoE DPS - the other brings pathfinding.Hit 90.

Venez

05-01-2010, 03:47 PM

<cite>Shade Slayer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Venez@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hmm so your a monk with a alt ranger on a PVP server and not yet 90..........Start a Ranger on a PVE server, level him up, TRY to find a top raid guild on ANY server, come back and put your 2cents in after you are blown off the parse by wizzys, swashys, assassins, warlocks, summoners and SKs in certain situations. Untill then please go back to your pvp alt.</blockquote>The Ranger is my main. I abandonned my old main and all my characters are now on PvP. I'll never play on PvE again because I'd be missing an entire aspect of the game. On Nagafen, your city allignment has real meaning. Whatever level I am, I have every right to post what I posted because every bit is true. No need for you to get sensitive about it. I'd rather see the Shadow Knight be leashed than get a damage increase honestly. It's more needed.</blockquote>This is where you are ....not correct. Every bit is NOT true, your a mid level Ranger, and I will GUESS that being a midlevel Ranger you have less than 8 months experiance on your Ranger, feel free to toss out his name and play time.It is also not true because you are on a PVP server in a PVE game - as in there is 1 PVP? server and 21 PVE servers (not including the Bazaar) You have differant rules, gear, factions, etc. This means your Ranger is NOT the same as Rangers on normal servers and as such you have NO RIGHT telling the real Rangers that we are fine. You being a PVP Ranger might be fine, on your PVP server which does not effect 95% of the rest of us.I have 100% ZERO desire to have SKs,Wizzys,Sins, nerfed, SoE has been buffing them for years - so be it. Now they need to BUFF PVE Rangers to where we are supposed to be, which has always been above ANY Tank class and comparable with Wizzys and Assassins as thats where we were always supposed to be since launch.Comeing here as a inexperanced PVP (any)class and trying to tell the Ranger community that we are fine will always bring a negative response from ........well every real Ranger.

thephantomposter

05-01-2010, 04:47 PM

<cite>Venez@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shade Slayer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Venez@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hmm so your a monk with a alt ranger on a PVP server and not yet 90..........Start a Ranger on a PVE server, level him up, TRY to find a top raid guild on ANY server, come back and put your 2cents in after you are blown off the parse by wizzys, swashys, assassins, warlocks, summoners and SKs in certain situations. Untill then please go back to your pvp alt.</blockquote>The Ranger is my main. I abandonned my old main and all my characters are now on PvP. I'll never play on PvE again because I'd be missing an entire aspect of the game. On Nagafen, your city allignment has real meaning. Whatever level I am, I have every right to post what I posted because every bit is true. No need for you to get sensitive about it. I'd rather see the Shadow Knight be leashed than get a damage increase honestly. It's more needed.</blockquote>This is where you are ....not correct. Every bit is NOT true, your a mid level Ranger, and I will GUESS that being a midlevel Ranger you have less than 8 months experiance on your Ranger, feel free to toss out his name and play time.It is also not true because you are on a PVP server in a PVE game - as in there is 1 PVP? server and 21 PVE servers (not including the Bazaar) You have differant rules, gear, factions, etc. This means your Ranger is NOT the same as Rangers on normal servers and as such you have NO RIGHT telling the real Rangers that we are fine. You being a PVP Ranger might be fine, on your PVP server which does not effect 95% of the rest of us.I have 100% ZERO desire to have SKs,Wizzys,Sins, nerfed, SoE has been buffing them for years - so be it. Now they need to BUFF PVE Rangers to where we are supposed to be, which has always been above ANY Tank class and comparable with Wizzys and Assassins as thats where we were always supposed to be since launch.Comeing here as a inexperanced PVP (any)class and trying to tell the Ranger community that we are fine will always bring a negative response from ........well every real Ranger.</blockquote>I agree with most of the posters here. We are great with a sudden burst of DPS, we just don't have the endurance, I also agree we have nothing to offer a group either. I find this and I am not RAIDing yet and I am not at end game but where this is a minor inconvenience for me now, I can see this magnified at end game.To this particular post, the difference between a X year pve RAID Ranger vs a X pvp/pve RAID Ranger, X being the same number, has the same valued opinion.Real Rangers on a real server, lol, I would suggest that a toon from a pvp server accomplishing the same stuff while adding pvp into the mixture actually makes a stronger player than those on a pve Server but that is just my opinion, not canon. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />

Venez

05-01-2010, 07:26 PM

/shrug, I disagree. Differant rules, differant gear = not the same, and pvp is a minority compared to pve. That coupled with not even being 90 .....sorry just not 90 and not raiding and being on a pvp server, imo just does not equal anything to the pve raid ranger, which is what most of us are complaining about.If he wanted to say Rangers are not so bad pvp or bg, he is right, other than that, he is not.edit: and by real ranger I just used that wording as 21 servers of pve Rangers compard to 1 server of pvp with definate differances.

Neiloch

05-01-2010, 07:37 PM

If they were balancing just on raid performance rangers would be high priority. When looking at all aspects and giving them equal weight, pvp, solo, group and raid, rangers aren't doing horribly. But they don't have equal weight. Soloing is just if you can or can't solo content meant for soloing. PvP is a severe minority. Raiding is probably lower percentage wise with the release of BG's, and may be able to argue raiding is 'hardcore' and not casual. But grouping we are still doing pretty bad and that is a strong cornerstone in EQ2 and any MMO in general, and making us better in grouping would have a huge impact on our raid performance.Personally I am of the 'trickle down' method of balance, you make a class good and in demand on raids they will do well in every other aspect automatically, at most would need a slight amount of tweaking. On the other hand making a class good at solo or PvP means almost NOTHING in groups or raids. Evident by rangers current state.

Nevao

05-01-2010, 07:55 PM

<cite>Shade Slayer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Venez@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hmm so your a monk with a alt ranger on a PVP server and not yet 90..........Start a Ranger on a PVE server, level him up, TRY to find a top raid guild on ANY server, come back and put your 2cents in after you are blown off the parse by wizzys, swashys, assassins, warlocks, summoners and SKs in certain situations. Untill then please go back to your pvp alt.</blockquote>The Ranger is my main. I abandonned my old main and all my characters are now on PvP. I'll never play on PvE again because I'd be missing an entire aspect of the game. On Nagafen, your city allignment has real meaning. Whatever level I am, I have every right to post what I posted because every bit is true. No need for you to get sensitive about it. I'd rather see the Shadow Knight be leashed than get a damage increase honestly. It's more needed.</blockquote>Venez and I often disagree on methods but we almost always agree on the end result, and in the case that you are ignorant to the issues of PvE rangers. In fairness though not being a PVPer I couldn't tell you a [Removed for Content] thing about PvP, your concerns on that front could be completely valid. But you coming in and telling a bunch of raiders that it's possible that we're fine and then start calling for other class nerfs is comical at best. Until you've experianced the content we are concerned about (T9 raiding) best not to weigh in.

Rocc

05-01-2010, 08:40 PM

I made a 90 ranger on test. I have two words for you..... NEEDS NERF! The ranger is WAY overpowered with Sniper Shot and some od the other +10k attacks.

glowsintheda

05-01-2010, 10:05 PM

Then make sure you nerf Assassins too because their CAs hit harder, cast faster, and have shorter reuse timers.

Neiloch

05-01-2010, 11:08 PM

<cite>Rocc@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I made a 90 ranger on test. I have two words for you..... NEEDS NERF! The ranger is WAY overpowered with Sniper Shot and some od the other +10k attacks.</blockquote>Either this is an awesome joke or a huge embaressment for you.

Rocc

05-01-2010, 11:32 PM

The embaressment is my garbage bag wearing mages cant come close to that dps and have zero survivability like a chain wearing ranger with almost as much hitpoints as my zerker. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" />

glowsintheda

05-01-2010, 11:53 PM

if you aren;t surviving as a mage in a raid, then either your healers don't know what they are doing, or you don't know what you are doing. The difference between chain and cloth mit makes almost no difference on most physical AEs I have seen this expansion. If you are standing too close to mobs that do a physical you will most likely get one shotted unless you are in plate. As far as DPS, unless you are a sorc you shouldn't be doing anything near what a ranger does in DPS. And if you are a sorc and not out DPSing the ranger then you are either way undergeared compared to them, not buffed, or not trying.

thephantomposter

05-02-2010, 01:06 AM

<cite>Venez@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>/shrug, I disagree. Differant rules, differant gear = not the same, and pvp is a minority compared to pve. That coupled with not even being 90 .....sorry just not 90 and not raiding and being on a pvp server, imo just does not equal anything to the pve raid ranger, which is what most of us are complaining about.If he wanted to say Rangers are not so bad pvp or bg, he is right, other than that, he is not.edit: and by real ranger I just used that wording as 21 servers of pve Rangers compard to 1 server of pvp with definate differances.</blockquote>So what are the different 'rules' on a pvp server that would make one who raids as much as you not have a valued opinion? Are Rangers fixed on a pvp server and broken on a pve server when it comes to raiding? Do they have better or worse utility? Better or worse DPS?Honestly curious ...

Jemoo

05-02-2010, 01:07 AM

... One attack that does good damage with a medium to long cast time and a long recast and you want a nerf? Glows is right, unless your a sorcerer then your dps shouldn't be near a rangers, and if you're dying often enough to complain either you're doing something wrong or your healer isn't good. As for your zerker... if your ranger is near to him in hp then your zerker isn't geared/specced correctly. My 90 ranger has a good amount less hp than a few of my zerker friends in similar gear. Also, you made the ranger on test... unless your mage and zerker are on test also then there are some changes in there that are being implemented in the next update that will effect your dps for sure, and possibly hp (someone more up to date on the patch should know).

Neiloch

05-02-2010, 11:32 AM

<cite>thephantomposter wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Venez@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>/shrug, I disagree. Differant rules, differant gear = not the same, and pvp is a minority compared to pve. That coupled with not even being 90 .....sorry just not 90 and not raiding and being on a pvp server, imo just does not equal anything to the pve raid ranger, which is what most of us are complaining about.If he wanted to say Rangers are not so bad pvp or bg, he is right, other than that, he is not.edit: and by real ranger I just used that wording as 21 servers of pve Rangers compard to 1 server of pvp with definate differances.</blockquote>So what are the different 'rules' on a pvp server that would make one who raids as much as you not have a valued opinion? Are Rangers fixed on a pvp server and broken on a pve server when it comes to raiding? Do they have better or worse utility? Better or worse DPS?Honestly curious ...</blockquote>There is raid quality gear that can be bought via PvP server tokens similar to how BG's work but only available on the PvP servers themselves. Ranger's are just outright more desired on a PvP server as well, they do quite well in PvP situations so they don't have to be held back much in "class desirability" as much as PvE rangers. Main point is being level 90 or not though.But in general I personally wouldn't dismiss the opinion of a level 90 PvP server ranger who PvE raids as much as me which would be about 12+ hours a week. How long they have been raiding overall would be helpful too.As for nerfing ranger, lol. The assassin version recasts faster and does more damage, better start whining over there too.

Ranja

05-02-2010, 11:52 AM

<cite>Neiloch@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>thephantomposter wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Venez@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>/shrug, I disagree. Differant rules, differant gear = not the same, and pvp is a minority compared to pve. That coupled with not even being 90 .....sorry just not 90 and not raiding and being on a pvp server, imo just does not equal anything to the pve raid ranger, which is what most of us are complaining about.If he wanted to say Rangers are not so bad pvp or bg, he is right, other than that, he is not.edit: and by real ranger I just used that wording as 21 servers of pve Rangers compard to 1 server of pvp with definate differances.</blockquote>So what are the different 'rules' on a pvp server that would make one who raids as much as you not have a valued opinion? Are Rangers fixed on a pvp server and broken on a pve server when it comes to raiding? Do they have better or worse utility? Better or worse DPS?Honestly curious ...</blockquote>There is raid quality gear that can be bought via PvP server tokens similar to how BG's work but only available on the PvP servers themselves. Ranger's are just outright more desired on a PvP server as well, they do quite well in PvP situations so they don't have to be held back much in "class desirability" as much as PvE rangers. Main point is being level 90 or not though.But in general I personally wouldn't dismiss the opinion of a level 90 PvP server ranger who PvE raids as much as me which would be about 12+ hours a week. How long they have been raiding overall would be helpful too.As for nerfing ranger, lol. The assassin version recasts faster, casts faster and does more damage, better start whining over there too.</blockquote>Fixed it for you<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Venez

05-02-2010, 12:42 PM

<cite>thephantomposter wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Venez@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>/shrug, I disagree. Differant rules, differant gear = not the same, and pvp is a minority compared to pve. That coupled with not even being 90 .....sorry just not 90 and not raiding and being on a pvp server, imo just does not equal anything to the pve raid ranger, which is what most of us are complaining about.If he wanted to say Rangers are not so bad pvp or bg, he is right, other than that, he is not.edit: and by real ranger I just used that wording as 21 servers of pve Rangers compard to 1 server of pvp with definate differances.</blockquote>So what are the different 'rules' on a pvp server that would make one who raids as much as you not have a valued opinion? Are Rangers fixed on a pvp server and broken on a pve server when it comes to raiding? Do they have better or worse utility? Better or worse DPS?Honestly curious ...</blockquote>First the OP does not raid and is not even 90 yet, he is NOT talking about raiding. He is talking about low/mid level grouping, soloing and PVP on a PVP server, because being level 75 - that is ALL HE HAS DONE. Therefore his opionon of the END game ranger has 0 merit, and chimeing in that Rangers are "not so bad" is total 100% ignorance on his part. PVP Rangers might be awsome and on a whole differant level in non-raid content on a PVP server - which is not the same as PVE Raiding or even PVP raiding.The differant rule sets include but not limited to the following which were all nerfed on pve BECAUSE of the pvp server/s. Which Rangers were "promised" would not happen by the lead Dev and Producers at the time. 1. CA's being nerfed so you could not cast them on the move, pve Rangers used to beable to cast ALL of our CA's on the run with no interuptions, but the PVP player base screamed bloody murder that the Rangers on PVP were OP'D at the time because of it. -Incomeing nerf to the PVE servers where we can no longer cast CA's on the move. 2. Miracle Arrow being nerfed to have a direct line of sight. We used to beable to target the mob thru other players and scrolling out and getting a target. But because PVP Rangers were ganking caster pets thru walls and getting ez kills, this was changed to Direct Line of Sight on....once again PVE servers also. There are a few other things but atm I cant remember them and I dont fell like looking thru my notepads with everything in them. But as mentiond above, all these were supposed to be PVP fixs only and we were "promised" that the "fixs" to PVP would NOT effect PVE, because PVP had there own rulesets. Not to mention the gear you can/could buy that there was NO equal to on pve servers, im not sure if you still can but back in the day they had access to bows that were much better than what was avaible on pve and it was buyable from merchants.And I do not know if there is a differance in PVP vs PVE raiding in instances ( I dont think there is, just dont know). I did hear that contested were a whole differant beast tho <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />

kartikeya

05-03-2010, 04:50 AM

<cite>Rocc@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>The embaressment is my garbage bag wearing mages cant come close to that dps and have zero survivability like a chain wearing ranger with almost as much hitpoints as my zerker. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Ah yes. The 'embaressment' of sorcerers pulling 60k parses. Very terrible. Most sad for you.Please find another board to troll, though I admit the initial freak out about how overpowered sniper shot is gave me a really great laugh.P.S. Make a 90 assassin next.

Shareana

05-03-2010, 01:18 PM

It does not matter if the Ranger is an alt or main, or on Live, Test, PvP or PvE server. Everyone (let me restate this) EVERYONE has a right to post their opinion on the subject as long as it falls within the rules of the forums. Do not insult or become angry at someone for having a different opinion please <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Venez

05-03-2010, 06:56 PM

<cite>Shareana wrote:</cite><blockquote>It does not matter if the Ranger is an alt or main, or on Live, Test, PvP or PvE server. Everyone (let me restate this) EVERYONE has a right to post their opinion on the subject as long as it falls within the rules of the forums. Do not insult or become angry at someone for having a different opinion please <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>OOOPS MY BAD, I did post you dont have the right, which was techinally wrong. You DO have the RIGHT to post anything you like as long as it follows the rules of the forums, EVEN if what you posted is not the truth or correct.Dont worry we will try our best to correct ourselves so we dont insult anyone, but after rereading the whole thread I cant see any insults being flung - if there was that other Moderator would have already suspended us <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Shade Slayer

05-04-2010, 11:51 AM

<cite>Venez@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shade Slayer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Venez@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hmm so your a monk with a alt ranger on a PVP server and not yet 90..........Start a Ranger on a PVE server, level him up, TRY to find a top raid guild on ANY server, come back and put your 2cents in after you are blown off the parse by wizzys, swashys, assassins, warlocks, summoners and SKs in certain situations. Untill then please go back to your pvp alt.</blockquote>The Ranger is my main. I abandonned my old main and all my characters are now on PvP. I'll never play on PvE again because I'd be missing an entire aspect of the game. On Nagafen, your city allignment has real meaning. Whatever level I am, I have every right to post what I posted because every bit is true. No need for you to get sensitive about it. I'd rather see the Shadow Knight be leashed than get a damage increase honestly. It's more needed.</blockquote>This is where you are ....not correct. Every bit is NOT true, your a mid level Ranger, and I will GUESS that being a midlevel Ranger you have less than 8 months experiance on your Ranger, feel free to toss out his name and play time.It is also not true because you are on a PVP server in a PVE game - as in there is 1 PVP? server and 21 PVE servers (not including the Bazaar) You have differant rules, gear, factions, etc. This means your Ranger is NOT the same as Rangers on normal servers and as such you have NO RIGHT telling the real Rangers that we are fine. You being a PVP Ranger might be fine, on your PVP server which does not effect 95% of the rest of us.I have 100% ZERO desire to have SKs,Wizzys,Sins, nerfed, SoE has been buffing them for years - so be it. Now they need to BUFF PVE Rangers to where we are supposed to be, which has always been above ANY Tank class and comparable with Wizzys and Assassins as thats where we were always supposed to be since launch.Comeing here as a inexperanced PVP (any)class and trying to tell the Ranger community that we are fine will always bring a negative response from ........well every real Ranger.</blockquote> I never told you that you were fine. I gave my personal experience and you whined like an infant because you didn't agree. You also attempt to be condescending by suggesting I'm not a real Ranger. Yes, I understand that I don't have as much experience at the class as many, but you could have said that instead of throwing cowardly, thinly veiled insults. As much as yo0u rant, what I typed is every bit true as I plainly stated MY PERSONAL experience. Matter of fact, I've been in quite a few raids. I've never had a problem or been rejected. Maybe it's a different playstyle on Nagafen.Also, you calling me juvenille is a bit ironic seeing as how you've been far more hostile and disrespectful. A common word for that is 'raging'. I'm usually in the top 3 parses in raids. Yes, we get good gear if we kill a lot of the enemy which is fine. We're on a PvP server and PvP had been expanded, so this cannot be legitimately called a PvE game anymore. I do wish BG never came to be. Who knows, maybe my experience will be different at 90, but for now, I don't see many problems.You say you hate being lower in parses, but have no problem with ShadowKnights who do more DPS than DPS classes? Common sense shows how all other classes are directly impacted by overpowering of one or more classes.Lastly, nice job in killing the civility of the original post. There was nothing disrespectful in it. So, about the "real" ranger and "talk when you're 90" bits, I say when you grow up (mentally), then come back and talk like a "real" adult.

Nevao

05-04-2010, 12:59 PM

And here we go again. I think we need to get some popcorn and "In Before the Lock" signs.

Neiloch

05-04-2010, 01:08 PM

So now you've been on raids at 90? Or are you talking about some other level when the cap is 90? Just asking because your original post says your 75. Because then its more of a 'casual raid' and they would have more than likely picked up just about anybody. I can find plenty of PUG raids to join, its joining new content, level cap raids that's the problem for most rangers.Percentage wise its still a PvE game, even though its smaller than it used to be. With 2 PvP servers and 22 PvE servers, PvE still outweighs PvP by an extremely large margin. BG's simply added a 'across the board' amount of PvP that's not very significant, even considering it will be in every level tier soon.Calling for nerfs to another class in general is bad form. It may be needed but making your classes forum a place to get other people nerfed is bad for everybody. If a class is to be nerfed it is between people who know and play that class and the devs as far as I am concerned, we will continue to press on as if they will be staying the way they are and what would be needed to even things out.You don't see many problems at your level which is why NONE of the rangers are complaining about problems at those levels. The threads here are talking about level 80 before the xpac and level 90 content. So I guess your first mistake was assuming we were talking about 71-79 at all in the past 3 years. I suppose that's understandable if your new to the forums and/or class though.

Sydares

05-04-2010, 04:57 PM

Everyone has the right to post their opinion, and everyone has the right to see that opinion summarily dissected.

Shade Slayer

05-04-2010, 11:27 PM

<cite>Neiloch@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>So now you've been on raids at 90? Or are you talking about some other level when the cap is 90? Just asking because your original post says your 75. Because then its more of a 'casual raid' and they would have more than likely picked up just about anybody. I can find plenty of PUG raids to join, its joining new content, level cap raids that's the problem for most rangers.Percentage wise its still a PvE game, even though its smaller than it used to be. With 2 PvP servers and 22 PvE servers, PvE still outweighs PvP by an extremely large margin. BG's simply added a 'across the board' amount of PvP that's not very significant, even considering it will be in every level tier soon.Calling for nerfs to another class in general is bad form. It may be needed but making your classes forum a place to get other people nerfed is bad for everybody. If a class is to be nerfed it is between people who know and play that class and the devs as far as I am concerned, we will continue to press on as if they will be staying the way they are and what would be needed to even things out.You don't see many problems at your level which is why NONE of the rangers are complaining about problems at those levels. The threads here are talking about level 80 before the xpac and level 90 content. So I guess your first mistake was assuming we were talking about 71-79 at all in the past 3 years. I suppose that's understandable if your new to the forums and/or class though.</blockquote>I suppose my mistake was assuming the gripes were about Rangers in general, not being aware that the gripes were solely about levels 80-90.

Venez

05-05-2010, 12:11 AM

<cite>Shade Slayer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Venez@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shade Slayer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Venez@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hmm so your a monk with a alt ranger on a PVP server and not yet 90..........Start a Ranger on a PVE server, level him up, TRY to find a top raid guild on ANY server, come back and put your 2cents in after you are blown off the parse by wizzys, swashys, assassins, warlocks, summoners and SKs in certain situations. Untill then please go back to your pvp alt.</blockquote>The Ranger is my main. I abandonned my old main and all my characters are now on PvP. I'll never play on PvE again because I'd be missing an entire aspect of the game. On Nagafen, your city allignment has real meaning. Whatever level I am, I have every right to post what I posted because every bit is true. No need for you to get sensitive about it. I'd rather see the Shadow Knight be leashed than get a damage increase honestly. It's more needed.</blockquote>This is where you are ....not correct. Every bit is NOT true, your a mid level Ranger, and I will GUESS that being a midlevel Ranger you have less than 8 months experiance on your Ranger, feel free to toss out his name and play time.It is also not true because you are on a PVP server in a PVE game - as in there is 1 PVP? server and 21 PVE servers (not including the Bazaar) You have differant rules, gear, factions, etc. This means your Ranger is NOT the same as Rangers on normal servers and as such you have NO RIGHT telling the real Rangers that we are fine. You being a PVP Ranger might be fine, on your PVP server which does not effect 95% of the rest of us.I have 100% ZERO desire to have SKs,Wizzys,Sins, nerfed, SoE has been buffing them for years - so be it. Now they need to BUFF PVE Rangers to where we are supposed to be, which has always been above ANY Tank class and comparable with Wizzys and Assassins as thats where we were always supposed to be since launch.Comeing here as a inexperanced PVP (any)class and trying to tell the Ranger community that we are fine will always bring a negative response from ........well every real Ranger.</blockquote> I never told you that you were fine. I gave my personal experience and you whined like an infant because you didn't agree. You also attempt to be condescending by suggesting I'm not a real Ranger. Yes, I understand that I don't have as much experience at the class as many, but you could have said that instead of throwing cowardly, thinly veiled insults. As much as yo0u rant, what I typed is every bit true as I plainly stated MY PERSONAL experience. Matter of fact, I've been in quite a few raids. I've never had a problem or been rejected. Maybe it's a different playstyle on Nagafen.Also, you calling me juvenille is a bit ironic seeing as how you've been far more hostile and disrespectful. A common word for that is 'raging'. I'm usually in the top 3 parses in raids. Yes, we get good gear if we kill a lot of the enemy which is fine. We're on a PvP server and PvP had been expanded, so this cannot be legitimately called a PvE game anymore. I do wish BG never came to be. Who knows, maybe my experience will be different at 90, but for now, I don't see many problems.You say you hate being lower in parses, but have no problem with ShadowKnights who do more DPS than DPS classes? Common sense shows how all other classes are directly impacted by overpowering of one or more classes.Lastly, nice job in killing the civility of the original post. There was nothing disrespectful in it. So, about the "real" ranger and "talk when you're 90" bits, I say when you grow up (mentally), then come back and talk like a "real" adult.</blockquote>Ok just for you I reread all my posts and most of the others and not one time did I call you juvenille or "rage" on you, nor did I attack you by calling you names like you did above. But as a adult I can understand that you feel because a moderator stepped in and made a post you feel like you have the "right" or maybe think your special and dont have to follow the "forum" rules, so lets debate where your wrong once again.(read closely and you will see I still wont call you names or rage)The game is STILL legitimatly a PvE game, there are 22 PvE servers, even your beloved PvP server is based on PvE with the pvp as a secondary. I personally dont think you can call adding BGs, "expanding" PvP so it brings it up to the PvE level lol, the only way PvP will be onpar with PvE is if you added the PvP ruleset to 50% of the live servers - only then would you be able to say its not a PvE game.BGs are a "bonus" for everyone to go mess around with to keep your time occupied for another 1-1.5yrs untill the next xpac comes out (imo) because there is noway this limp wristed xpac is going to keep everyone going till then. BGs were released horribly broken and should never have went live with the xpac. They are spending most of there resources and time to try and fix the broken mess the released to soon, instead of putting some serious time in on things like............class balance ?Now to class balance. There are more than just SKs that are capable of out Dpsing Rangers, I dont go to other class forums or this forum and say another class needs to be nerfed so I can compete. I generally try to go with they got a boost, now we need a boost. As a Ranger of many years I know the nerf stick, I know what we used to be capable of. Why would I want to tear down another class - Fix mineAnd please before you get to worked up in the future, try to comprehend what I actually write.<blockquote>edit: and by real ranger I just used that wording as 21 servers of pve Rangers compard to 1 server of pvp with definate differances.</blockquote>

Venez

05-05-2010, 12:14 AM

The complaints have always been from the max level raid community. Level 80 when cap was 80, and 90 now that it is 90. It stems back over 3yrs and has been fully detailed to the devs in every beta since the end of EoF, with little to no changes in 3+ yrs.

Aerinn

05-05-2010, 12:36 AM

<cite>Rocc@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>The embaressment is my garbage bag wearing mages cant come close to that dps and have zero survivability like a chain wearing ranger with almost as much hitpoints as my zerker. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>I rethought my gut response, and it'll suffice to say that PvE top end rangers are not serious T1 damage dealers when compared to the REAL dps'ers like Warlocks and Wizards.I frequently find myself near the top of the dps parses, but NEVER when there's a comparably equipped and skilled T1 dps'er in the raid. Assassins smoke us in dps (which is who I figure we should be on par with) and wizzies/locks do too.I totally agree with posts that say Devs should keep the nerf bat at bay. I don't want anyone nerfed, and I don't even really want us to be blown out to dps 30% more than we're doing now or anything. Barring some decent dps increase, however, we need SOMETHING as a class that makes a ranger someone you'd want in a serious raid force.SERIOUS raid guilds have repeatedly told me that rangers ONLY offer dps to a raid....and our dps is meager in comparison to the "real" dps classes. I just wish rangers has something that made us a class those guilds recruit for...because I can't think of ANY that actively recruit rangers (not to say they won't let one in on occassion...pity?).So, we're alright, but kiting is pretty ordinary. In groups, we alright dps, but nothing great. PvP...our range seems to give us an edge on clothies so not a lot of changes required there (probably) and raiding...well...we're nice to have in a casual raid (and we might even get into a serious raid if we're good at our class AND a really likable person).On the flip side...I knew EQ2 rangers were the red headed fat step children of the game. I knew that coming in, so any attention at all (such as recent changes to spells) has been welcome. Was it enough? No. Was it welcomed? Oh yea!Anyway, enough typing on this...I should be practicing playing my ranger! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Rocc

05-05-2010, 07:19 AM

I invite everybody in this community to the testcopy server to create a ranger. Talk to Old Man Dave on the Halas Docks. He will buff you to 90, give you spell upgrades and gear. Now set your AA's and take your ranger out in SF. Throw your ranged CA's in one hotbar near your trap button. Fire Sniper Shot, trap the mob and fire again with the next ranged CA. You'll all see what I'm talking about.After you've tryed the ranger please try a wizard and/or warlock at level 90 (or any other dps class) Similar concept in pulling and killing. Set your AA's and go test it for yourself. Dont take my word for it, try it for yourselves!It's in my opinion that assassins and rangers (especially rangers) are in need of a devs attention. Doing battlegrounds with overpowered classes kinda makes it one sided. And as I've said from day one, no class should out DPS a caster. Now if mages had the option to adorn chain armor that would be different. Then it would be level ground.Shadowstep and Sniper Shot need major nerfage!

Nevao

05-05-2010, 07:54 AM

<cite>Rocc@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I invite everybody in this community to the testcopy server to create a ranger. Talk to Old Man Dave on the Halas Docks. He will buff you to 90, give you spell upgrades and gear. Now set your AA's and take your ranger out in SF. Throw your ranged CA's in one hotbar near your trap button. Fire Sniper Shot, trap the mob and fire again with the next ranged CA. You'll all see what I'm talking about.After you've tryed the ranger please try a wizard and/or warlock at level 90 (or any other dps class) Similar concept in pulling and killing. Set your AA's and go test it for yourself. Dont take my word for it, try it for yourselves!It's in my opinion that assassins and rangers (especially rangers) are in need of a devs attention. Doing battlegrounds with overpowered classes kinda makes it one sided. And as I've said from day one, no class should out DPS a caster. Now if mages had the option to adorn chain armor that would be different. Then it would be level ground.Shadowstep and Sniper Shot need major nerfage!</blockquote>And all your "test" would prove is who is better at one/two shotting a mob once. It shows nothing about general solo balance, nothing about grouping, nothing about PvP, nothing about BG and nothing about Raids (where most of the complaints are coming in before the PvP crowd started shouting "NERF THEM! THEY KILL ME!"). With all do respect if you're going to try to make an argument about Predators being over powered throughout the game (HA) then at least use logic and numbers instead of strawmen. The one thing that I'm "surprised" you did not not notice is that while Sniper Shot does significant damage it's on a 10 minute recast. In ten minutes how often are you going to get off Ice Comet or Devastation? Or hell just get off Bolt of Fire or Distortion. From a damage/recast standpoint Sniper Shot is underpowered. But I'm guessing that doesn't matter to you. Becuase the one area where rangers is one that you can't work around so obviously something is wrong and we must be further nerfed so you can win BG matches /sigh. Yeah... becuase we haven't taken enough of a beating as a class over the past four years.

Rocc

05-05-2010, 08:03 AM

I invite the entire community to go to the testcopy server and create a ranger. Group, raid, solo and do BG's so you can see for yourself. BG will be of special interest and I higly recommend everyone use your ACT parsers and compare apples to apples.

Striikor

05-05-2010, 09:13 AM

You do realize that you are talking to a whole group of level 90 rangers competing for slots and groups on LIVE servers don't you? Many of us have been watching our comparative DPS deteriorate from T1 to T2 to competing with T3 over the last 3 years? Most of us very well equipped and competing for slots with other well equipped and played classes.Also many of us have high level mages and understand how to spec shield and root mobs. We don't have to get buffed to play level 90 toons, we HAVE level 90 toons.

Nevao

05-05-2010, 10:38 AM

<cite>Rocc@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I invite the entire community to go to the testcopy server and create a ranger. Group, raid, solo and do BG's so you can see for yourself. BG will be of special interest and I higly recommend everyone use your ACT parsers and compare apples to apples.</blockquote>Battle Grounds Troll is Trolling... (and still not very effective at cause, effect and reasonable arguments)

Ranja

05-05-2010, 10:45 AM

<cite>Rocc@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I invite the entire community to go to the testcopy server and create a ranger. Group, raid, solo and do BG's so you can see for yourself. BG will be of special interest and I higly recommend everyone use your ACT parsers and compare apples to apples.</blockquote>Wiat I know who you are! You are Solistcey in this thread:http://www.eq2flames.com/rangers/62388-rangers-really-much-worse-than-assassins.htmlFinally brought your BS to the official forums because you got absolutely pwned on the other board, eh?At first I thought you were joking, but you are really serious that you think ranger's are OP, right? You are serious? Everyone here parses their ranger and we all know the results that is why we are asking for changes. Because no one in their right mind would ever think Rangers are OP if they actually understood combat mechanics.But understanding game mechanics is beyond you obviously. Your pathetic troll about sniper shot makes that astonishingly clear.

Rocc

05-05-2010, 11:05 AM

You guys can only reply with newby troll insults? Is that your only response or do you have something constructive to say? "Learn to play your class" or "your a troll" or "your a newb" have no weight anymore! It's just jibberish. The fact is that this is a Ranger thread in a public forum. I'm talking about rangers. Ranger are over powered and need a nerf.Ranja I'm not that person and dont go to EQ2flames but that proves I'm not the only one that thinks rangers need a nerf.How come everyone that says something someone else doesnt like we all of a sudden become a troll or a nweb? LOL it's kind of funny actually! I just happen to be sick of rangers getting away with insane dps and stealing group/raid spots from my guildies that wanna play and gear up their alt mages. It's quite simple. No smoke and mirrors, no forum hopping to condemn a class on every website that eq2 peeps hang at. Your only testing my resolve. Perhaps I will go over to Eq2flames and comment about this. Thanks.But hey, if someone was trying to take a good thing away from me I would be mad too I suppose.

Nevao

05-05-2010, 12:25 PM

<cite>Rocc@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>You guys can only reply with newby troll insults? Is that your only response or do you have something constructive to say? "Learn to play your class" or "your a troll" or "your a newb" have no weight anymore! It's just jibberish. The fact is that this is a Ranger thread in a public forum. I'm talking about rangers. Ranger are over powered and need a nerf.Ranja I'm not that person and dont go to EQ2flames but that proves I'm not the only one that thinks rangers need a nerf.How come everyone that says something someone else doesnt like we all of a sudden become a troll or a nweb? LOL it's kind of funny actually! I just happen to be sick of rangers getting away with insane dps and stealing group/raid spots from my guildies that wanna play and gear up their alt mages. It's quite simple. No smoke and mirrors, no forum hopping to condemn a class on every website that eq2 peeps hang at. Your only testing my resolve. Perhaps I will go over to Eq2flames and comment about this. Thanks.But hey, if someone was trying to take a good thing away from me I would be mad too I suppose.</blockquote>Disagreeing doesn't make you a troll. The OP started talking about balance in portions of the game he has no experiance with. He got called on that. Perhaps not as civilly as it should have been done, but the arguments by most of us were based off his experiance vs his claims. So there you go.You got called out as a troll when you started talking about abilities whose balance you obviously don't understand. You got called out on your testing methods because they prove nothing. You got called a BG troll in particular becuase your pushing statements about BG balance when the vast majority of us have been talking about raid and group balance. Another reason could be the fact that you're calling for Nerfs to another class which usually looks pretty trollish as well. In general you're making statements that you have not backed up with any mechanics, any math and are completely contradictry to most posters experiances. Don't be suprised if there is a backlash.As for getting passed up for groups/raids: I would love to see which server you are on, what guilds you are talking about and what content they have killed. Your experiances are so far from the norm that one wonders when and where they are happening.

Ranja

05-05-2010, 12:34 PM

<cite>Rocc@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>You guys can only reply with newby troll insults? Is that your only response or do you have something constructive to say? "Learn to play your class" or "your a troll" or "your a newb" have no weight anymore! It's just jibberish. The fact is that this is a Ranger thread in a public forum. I'm talking about rangers. Ranger are over powered and need a nerf.Ranja I'm not that person and dont go to EQ2flames but that proves I'm not the only one that thinks rangers need a nerf.How come everyone that says something someone else doesnt like we all of a sudden become a troll or a nweb? LOL it's kind of funny actually! I just happen to be sick of rangers getting away with insane dps and stealing group/raid spots from my guildies that wanna play and gear up their alt mages. It's quite simple. No smoke and mirrors, no forum hopping to condemn a class on every website that eq2 peeps hang at. Your only testing my resolve. Perhaps I will go over to Eq2flames and comment about this. Thanks.But hey, if someone was trying to take a good thing away from me I would be mad too I suppose.</blockquote>If rangers are stealing spots from others in your raids, your other classes are not played by experienced players (put nicely).

Hekkwin

05-05-2010, 03:48 PM

I'm really surprised to see anyone call for any kind of ranger nerf. MAYBE for PvP but I know more than a few top end raiding guilds that turn down ANY ranger app as a matter of course. For a guild that's really min/max'ing their raids and roster in general they are better off having a second class they already have, DPS or otherwise, than a ranger. This isn't accounting for player skill of course. Obviously a smart player playing a ranger is better than an assassin constantly triggering fail mechanics or dying non stop.The difference between a ranger in PvP and PvE is night and day, and this game is about 90% PvE, so any kind of advantage in PvP shouldn't be lumped in with overall ranger performance imo.BTW I don't play a ranger in any capacity I play a dirge on raids full time.

Ranja

05-05-2010, 04:13 PM

<cite>Rocc@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>You guys can only reply with newby troll insults? Is that your only response or do you have something constructive to say? "Learn to play your class" or "your a troll" or "your a newb" have no weight anymore! It's just jibberish. The fact is that this is a Ranger thread in a public forum. I'm talking about rangers. Ranger are over powered and need a nerf.Ranja I'm not that person and dont go to EQ2flames but that proves I'm not the only one that thinks rangers need a nerf.How come everyone that says something someone else doesnt like we all of a sudden become a troll or a nweb? LOL it's kind of funny actually! I just happen to be sick of rangers getting away with insane dps and stealing group/raid spots from my guildies that wanna play and gear up their alt mages. It's quite simple. No smoke and mirrors, no forum hopping to condemn a class on every website that eq2 peeps hang at. Your only testing my resolve. Perhaps I will go over to Eq2flames and comment about this. Thanks.But hey, if someone was trying to take a good thing away from me I would be mad too I suppose.</blockquote>I wouldn't because if you thought you got flamed on this board, you are going to get blown up over there.Yes you are entitled to your opinion. And, yes we are entitled to disagree. But when your opinion is based on unproven assertations and quite frankly coming from someone that has little presence on this board in the past, we are going to call you on it.Sorry that is just the way it is.

kartikeya

05-05-2010, 04:57 PM

<cite>Rocc@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I invite everybody in this community to the testcopy server to create a ranger. Talk to Old Man Dave on the Halas Docks. He will buff you to 90, give you spell upgrades and gear. Now set your AA's and take your ranger out in SF. Throw your ranged CA's in one hotbar near your trap button. Fire Sniper Shot, trap the mob and fire again with the next ranged CA. You'll all see what I'm talking about.After you've tryed the ranger please try a wizard and/or warlock at level 90 (or any other dps class) Similar concept in pulling and killing. Set your AA's and go test it for yourself. Dont take my word for it, try it for yourselves!It's in my opinion that assassins and rangers (especially rangers) are in need of a devs attention. Doing battlegrounds with overpowered classes kinda makes it one sided. And as I've said from day one, no class should out DPS a caster. Now if mages had the option to adorn chain armor that would be different. Then it would be level ground.Shadowstep and Sniper Shot need major nerfage!</blockquote>Aha, ahahahaha, ahahahhhahaha!Oh wow, you're precious. Okay, mate, here's a handy tip from me to you, regarding PVP and Battlegrounds. Hop on your Test ranger. Examine Sniper shot. See that little PVP box up in the examine window. Click it. Well gosh. Notice how Sniper shot's damage suddenly got chopped to pieces? That's the PVP damage a ranger can do with that combat art. Once every ten minutes. Note the cast time was lowered this expansion, but it's still very long from a PVP perspective.To echo someone else (who you conveniently ignored), you do realize you are talking to a bunch of generally well geared, level 90 rangers...right? Why would I need to go beta buff a ranger to 90 and put on gear that's almost surely weaker than what I've already got?I mean, do you play any well geared character with remotely decent DPS capabilities at all? From your comments, it would sound like you're a mage, but my warlock with T8 raid castoffs can generally one and two shot solo mobs with ease too. I know our raid assassin one shots things. I can't imagine our swashy doesn't one shot solo mobs. Or our wizard. Or our brigand...or...really, what's your point? Just about any remotely DPS capable class with raid gear is going to one-shot solo mobs. They're wearing RAID GEAR. These are SOLO MOBS. Oh, and here's something to blow your mind: I can one-shot solo mobs without using Sniper Shot.I'd also love to know what reality you live in where rangers steal your friends' spots in raids and groups. If that actually happens, then your friends really really reeeeeally need to work on their ability to play the game. But then, I can see where I'd take a substandard performing class (a ranger, say) with a player who knew how to listen and play well over someone such as yourself who seems to be demonstrating a keen lack of understanding of game mechanics and reading comprehension.The reason you got labeled a troll is because this is what trolls do; they go into a place and state something crazy that they know will get forum regulars worked up over, solely for the reaction. Trolls are often easily spotted by their tendency to ignore any and all rational arguments to the contrary directed at them, in favor of either repeating themselves or jumping on the one person who does not respond rationally in an attempt to goad that person further.Kind've like you've been doing.

Sydares

05-05-2010, 05:18 PM

<cite>Rocc@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>You guys can only reply with newby troll insults?</blockquote>Yes.Although this is probably because you're both a newb and a troll.

Rocc

05-05-2010, 05:21 PM

<cite>Sydares wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rocc@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>You guys can only reply with newby troll insults?</blockquote>Yes.Although this is probably because you're both a newb and a troll.</blockquote>Because your account is one day older than mine? And how many posts do you have? Who's the troll?Anyway, you guys are like 10 year olds. So your right, I'm wrong. Rangers are underpowered and so are SK's. There... enjoy this thread.

Sydares

05-05-2010, 05:26 PM

<cite>Rocc@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Because your account is one day older than mine?</blockquote>Actually, because you're a berserker and bawling about PvP balance. It's precious. Please continue, you're brightening my day.

Hekkwin

05-05-2010, 05:30 PM

I love how you interpret not wanting to pummel SK's with a nerf bat as saying they aren't OP'd, and that anyone who could possibly disagree with you is wrong. If your not purposely trolling your a naturally occurring troll, which is much much worse imo. The reason WHY we know you are both A. Wrong B. Not well informed is because some of the rangers own CA's perform BETTER than Sniper Shot on parses, yet you are calling for a nerf on sniper shot, opposed to other skills that are just flat out better in every way. This coupled with the FACT that even with skills that do better than sniper shot, rangers can still get blown out of the water by sorcerers, assassins, and in some cases/fights conjurors and swashbucklers. These rangers have YEARS of data backing them up, you have some PUG raids and test characters.

kartikeya

05-05-2010, 05:39 PM

<cite>Rocc@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote></blockquote>Anyway, you guys are like 10 year olds. Says the guy who refuses to respond to any fact-based argument against his knee-jerk assertions. So you're right, I'm wrong. Correct. Rangers are underpowered and so are SK's Strawman arguments are awesome. There... enjoy this thread. Thank you.</blockquote>If you don't want to be thought of as a troll, I'd kindly suggest that you try to stop trolling. Please see my above post in regards to trollish behavior. Otherwise, have a great day.

Venez

05-05-2010, 05:40 PM

<cite>Rocc@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sydares wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rocc@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>You guys can only reply with newby troll insults?</blockquote>Yes.Although this is probably because you're both a newb and a troll.</blockquote>Because your account is one day older than mine? And how many posts do you have? Who's the troll?Anyway, you guys are like 10 year olds. So your right, I'm wrong. Rangers are underpowered and so are SK's. There... enjoy this thread.</blockquote>Well while your /trolling why dont YOU post your ACT findings and back up the claims your trying to make, and then test buff 1 of each DPS class's and post there ACT findings and you will find they all one shot solo mobs, in fact all the DPS class's can oneshot solo mobs in every tier the whole time they level up, so not sure of your point.Let me tell you what you will find to save your time.1. Melee auto attack will be ~20% higher for Melee class's with just a straight auto attack test, than Ranged Auto attack.Do about a 20 minute uninterupted ACT auto attack run.2. Swash, Assassin, Wizards, CAs will cast faster, hit harder are refresh sooner and there EXT DPS per CA, will be much higher.This has been posted and proven in SF Beta in a 1100 post Ranger Forum, but seeing your ignorance of the Ranger class you wouldnt know this. It would probably be in your best intrest to learn about a class before you attempt to bash it.Wizards, Warlocks, Swash and Assassins in equal gear will be up to double/triple DPS of a Ranger - proven on another forums parse threads, I highly suggest you go check your facts before you make yourself look ........well ....not very smart on the subject your trying to push.

Nevao

05-05-2010, 06:14 PM

<cite>Sydares wrote:</cite><blockquote>Actually, because you're a berserker and bawling about PvP balance. It's precious. Please continue, you're brightening my day.</blockquote>Thank you Sydares for reminding me to laugh. With that point of view this thread goes from annoying to amusing. Thanks man.

Wolfsight

05-07-2010, 01:42 PM

<cite>Venez@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>thephantomposter wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Venez@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>/shrug, I disagree. Different rules, different gear = not the same, and pvp is a minority compared to pve. That coupled with not even being 90 .....sorry just not 90 and not raiding and being on a pvp server, imo just does not equal anything to the pve raid ranger, which is what most of us are complaining about.If he wanted to say Rangers are not so bad pvp or bg, he is right, other than that, he is not.edit: and by real ranger I just used that wording as 21 servers of pve Rangers compared to 1 server of pvp with definite differences.</blockquote>So what are the different 'rules' on a pvp server that would make one who raids as much as you not have a valued opinion? Are Rangers fixed on a pvp server and broken on a pve server when it comes to raiding? Do they have better or worse utility? Better or worse DPS?Honestly curious ...</blockquote>First the OP does not raid and is not even 90 yet, he is NOT talking about raiding. He is talking about low/mid level grouping, soloing and PVP on a PVP server, because being level 75 - that is ALL HE HAS DONE. Therefore his opionon of the END game ranger has 0 merit, and chiming in that Rangers are "not so bad" is total 100% ignorance on his part. PVP Rangers might be awesome and on a whole different level in non-raid content on a PVP server - which is not the same as PVE Raiding or even PVP raiding.The different rule sets include but not limited to the following which were all nerfed on pve BECAUSE of the pvp server/s. Which Rangers were "promised" would not happen by the lead Dev and Producers at the time. 1. CA's being nerfed so you could not cast them on the move, pve Rangers used to be able to cast ALL of our CA's on the run with no interuptions, but the PVP player base screamed bloody murder that the Rangers on PVP were OP'D at the time because of it. -Incomeing nerf to the PVE servers where we can no longer cast CA's on the move. The running while using CA's nerf was before PvP servers were introduced ... 2. Miracle Arrow being nerfed to have a direct line of sight. We used to beable to target the mob thru other players and scrolling out and getting a target. But because PVP Rangers were ganking caster pets thru walls and getting ez kills, this was changed to Direct Line of Sight on....once again PVE servers also.Reason for this was due to someone being able to zone in to somewhere, using /target to get a named then shooting it with an arrow to the entrance. There are a few other things but atm I cant remember them and I dont fell like looking through my notepads with everything in them. But as mentioned above, all these were supposed to be PVP fixes only and we were "promised" that the "fixs" to PVP would NOT effect PVE, because PVP had there own rule sets. Not to mention the gear you can/could buy that there was NO equal to on pve servers, im not sure if you still can but back in the day they had access to bows that were much better than what was available on pve and it was buyable from merchants.If you are talking about TSO PvP gear it was worse than t4 raid gear back for both PvE and PvP. Near the end of TSO they added some raid loot onto the PvP merchant for ALOT of tokens however again was PvP only procs. Nowadays PvP gear is the same as what it shows on the BG merchant and only has a use for well PvP.And I do not know if there is a difference in PVP vs PVE raiding in instances ( I don't think there is, just don't know). I did hear that contested were a whole different beast tho <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />There isn't a difference in instances however contested you do get open world PvPs at the same time.</blockquote>Sometimes people forget players on PvP servers also PvE *sigh*. While my ranger isn't my main anymore and I play on Naggy I still want rangers fixed just as much as the next person. Going on about how PvP apparently nerfed rangers won't get them fixed any faster nor will it add anything if you deny someones opinion based on server preference. What makes PvPers not "real" rangers boggles me since its the same as PvE just with open world death and destruction ...

Laenai

05-07-2010, 02:20 PM

ACT of rangers being OP or it never happened.If you're gonna spout it, back it up with something besides "My biggest attack can one shot a solo triple arrow down mob."Somehow, I doubt we'll see many posted parses, but that the trolling will continue.

Neiloch

05-07-2010, 03:29 PM

I can't find the update notes in general that remove the ability to use ranged CA's on the move. PvP servers were introduced with GU 20 (with KoS of course) so if Wolfsight is right it would have been before that. Even if they did it before this I can't imagine why they would make it this way for PvE reasons only. If they indeed did it before it would have to have been in preperation for PvP servers. What I did find though is clearly way back then they cared a lot more about class balance, GU notes were usually 1/3 or more class balancing, now you are lucky to find any. Not going to convince me its because balancing isn't as needed now as it was then. High amounts of class balancing is ALWAYS needed until its perfect. Not going to convince me its even close to perfect now either.

Wolfsight

05-07-2010, 04:32 PM

Just went to try hunting through update notes but can't find it either. Although I am very sure I remember it changing back when I had a predator back on Splitpaw way back when. As for why it could of been nerfed other than the PvP angle ? Well rangers are good soloers if nothing else so my guess would be that. However this thread is about here and now, what we need now is some dev answers and love. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />

Neiloch

05-07-2010, 04:41 PM

Indeed. Unfortunately anyone sticking around is going to continue to post unless some stuff gets fixed, and only because that's all we can really do at this point. We have proven repeatedly our DPS is sub par and provided many suggestions for fix's we would like. So at least I can draw comfort that the players have at least tried and its the developers that have COMPLETELY dropped the ball on this one. Rangers raid and group DPS sub par for a supposed T1 DPS class with little to no in demand utility. Increase it. Kthx.

Shade Slayer

05-08-2010, 11:28 PM

<cite>Venez@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shade Slayer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Venez@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shade Slayer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Venez@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hmm so your a monk with a alt ranger on a PVP server and not yet 90..........Start a Ranger on a PVE server, level him up, TRY to find a top raid guild on ANY server, come back and put your 2cents in after you are blown off the parse by wizzys, swashys, assassins, warlocks, summoners and SKs in certain situations. Untill then please go back to your pvp alt.</blockquote>The Ranger is my main. I abandonned my old main and all my characters are now on PvP. I'll never play on PvE again because I'd be missing an entire aspect of the game. On Nagafen, your city allignment has real meaning. Whatever level I am, I have every right to post what I posted because every bit is true. No need for you to get sensitive about it. I'd rather see the Shadow Knight be leashed than get a damage increase honestly. It's more needed.</blockquote>This is where you are ....not correct. Every bit is NOT true, your a mid level Ranger, and I will GUESS that being a midlevel Ranger you have less than 8 months experiance on your Ranger, feel free to toss out his name and play time.It is also not true because you are on a PVP server in a PVE game - as in there is 1 PVP? server and 21 PVE servers (not including the Bazaar) You have differant rules, gear, factions, etc. This means your Ranger is NOT the same as Rangers on normal servers and as such you have NO RIGHT telling the real Rangers that we are fine. You being a PVP Ranger might be fine, on your PVP server which does not effect 95% of the rest of us.I have 100% ZERO desire to have SKs,Wizzys,Sins, nerfed, SoE has been buffing them for years - so be it. Now they need to BUFF PVE Rangers to where we are supposed to be, which has always been above ANY Tank class and comparable with Wizzys and Assassins as thats where we were always supposed to be since launch.Comeing here as a inexperanced PVP (any)class and trying to tell the Ranger community that we are fine will always bring a negative response from ........well every real Ranger.</blockquote> I never told you that you were fine. I gave my personal experience and you whined like an infant because you didn't agree. You also attempt to be condescending by suggesting I'm not a real Ranger. Yes, I understand that I don't have as much experience at the class as many, but you could have said that instead of throwing cowardly, thinly veiled insults. As much as yo0u rant, what I typed is every bit true as I plainly stated MY PERSONAL experience. Matter of fact, I've been in quite a few raids. I've never had a problem or been rejected. Maybe it's a different playstyle on Nagafen.Also, you calling me juvenille is a bit ironic seeing as how you've been far more hostile and disrespectful. A common word for that is 'raging'. I'm usually in the top 3 parses in raids. Yes, we get good gear if we kill a lot of the enemy which is fine. We're on a PvP server and PvP had been expanded, so this cannot be legitimately called a PvE game anymore. I do wish BG never came to be. Who knows, maybe my experience will be different at 90, but for now, I don't see many problems.You say you hate being lower in parses, but have no problem with ShadowKnights who do more DPS than DPS classes? Common sense shows how all other classes are directly impacted by overpowering of one or more classes.Lastly, nice job in killing the civility of the original post. There was nothing disrespectful in it. So, about the "real" ranger and "talk when you're 90" bits, I say when you grow up (mentally), then come back and talk like a "real" adult.</blockquote>Ok just for you I reread all my posts and most of the others and not one time did I call you juvenille or "rage" on you, nor did I attack you by calling you names like you did above. But as a adult I can understand that you feel because a moderator stepped in and made a post you feel like you have the "right" or maybe think your special and dont have to follow the "forum" rules, so lets debate where your wrong once again.(read closely and you will see I still wont call you names or rage)The game is STILL legitimatly a PvE game, there are 22 PvE servers, even your beloved PvP server is based on PvE with the pvp as a secondary. I personally dont think you can call adding BGs, "expanding" PvP so it brings it up to the PvE level lol, the only way PvP will be onpar with PvE is if you added the PvP ruleset to 50% of the live servers - only then would you be able to say its not a PvE game.BGs are a "bonus" for everyone to go mess around with to keep your time occupied for another 1-1.5yrs untill the next xpac comes out (imo) because there is noway this limp wristed xpac is going to keep everyone going till then. BGs were released horribly broken and should never have went live with the xpac. They are spending most of there resources and time to try and fix the broken mess the released to soon, instead of putting some serious time in on things like............class balance ?Now to class balance. There are more than just SKs that are capable of out Dpsing Rangers, I dont go to other class forums or this forum and say another class needs to be nerfed so I can compete. I generally try to go with they got a boost, now we need a boost. As a Ranger of many years I know the nerf stick, I know what we used to be capable of. Why would I want to tear down another class - Fix mineAnd please before you get to worked up in the future, try to comprehend what I actually write.<blockquote>edit: and by real ranger I just used that wording as 21 servers of pve Rangers compard to 1 server of pvp with definate differances.</blockquote></blockquote>You weren't the one who suggested I was juvenille, although you did attempt to condescend suggesting that I wasn't a "real" ranger and that I should reserve my 2 cents until I was a "real" ranger. Once again, you should should come back when you can reply as a "real" adult.I unserstand what you type, but once again if other classes are OP, of course they will outdamage you making you obsolete. It's common sense. It may not be the entire problem, but it's surely part of it. It's apparent my original post upset you and you've been "raging" as some say.Lastly, you don't consider PvP rangers to be real rangers? That's pretty funny. I would think of a real ranger as someone who tracks down a real thinking, functioning being rather than someone who fights mindless creatures. You should try it sometime and I don't mean BG. It's a cool feeling. If it was just a thoughtless term, I would suggest going with PvP Ranger. We're all real Rangers, right?

Neiloch

05-08-2010, 11:45 PM

Reason why people tend to go for a self 'buff' opposed to nerfing someone else is that its like to get more support overall, and less resistance in terms of the rest of the community. Hell I even get support from other SK's that rangers should get buffed up in damage while admitting themselves SK's are OP'd. If I instead said I think SK's should be nerfed they would go against it hard, and probably retaliate in some fashion, then your in a situation where there is more fighting than discussion. Debating what a 'real ranger' may be is pointless. But it is a provable, quantified fact, that most rangers are 'pure PvE' rangers, save for the new BG's. And as pointed out rangers on PvP servers also PvE, so addressing PvE issues first and foremost would help out the most players, opposed to PvP concerns which would only help the small amount of PvP servers and PvE rangers who play BG's. Sorry to say but you just aren't going to enough first hand knowledge on ranger issues until you reach the level cap, this isn't an opinion, its a fact. Your opinion on lower levels are valid but they are also the most inconsequential, and only matter until you reach the cap when they are quickly replaced by other aspects. The lower levels are easily gotten out of, but level 90 is going to be here for about another 18 months.

Striikor

05-09-2010, 12:18 PM

Gotta say than peeps calling for nerfs is always a NARROW minded and self-centered approach. If the Rangers were calling nerfs, we would have to be calling for the nerf of Multiple classes to get back above T2 and compete in T1. Flat out - a series of nerfs would not begin to be an effective solution.Much of the fix could be very easy **** give us back our procs, let ranged melee trigger any procs that melee can, add a reuse buff to Hunter's instinct. Give Archer's Fury a range extension to melee combat arts, say 10m. A ranger has less utility than any of the other three T1 DPS, they should at least offer the best DPS.

Neiloch

05-09-2010, 03:00 PM

They do seem extremely reluctant to up our DPS. But because of our crap utility we are probably the best class to have get op'd DPS. Every other class has some other useful utility to bring, including sorcerers. All we bring is a accuracy buff no one cares about, so really doesn't matter if it helps out a lot or not. I really don't see the reluctance to up our DPS at all. Worse case (for them) they up it too much and we are op'd DPS when that's all we can do anyway. Maybe they are afraid because of the DPS boosts other classes got that's too much, and its just unfortunate we weren't first in line. And no, being able to range half the time while wearing chain is not 'utility.' Any dev up there knocking our DPS because we use a bow and chain and the traits that come with is ignorant. Chain pretty much has nothing to do with raiding. Just crit mit and resists, both of which mages can get just as high, just as easily. Also HP is factor obviously but again has nothing to do with the more 'mitigation' chain provides.

Venez

05-09-2010, 05:05 PM

<cite>Wolfsight@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just went to try hunting through update notes but can't find it either. Although I am very sure I remember it changing back when I had a predator back on Splitpaw way back when. As for why it could of been nerfed other than the PvP angle ? Well rangers are good soloers if nothing else so my guess would be that. However this thread is about here and now, what we need now is some dev answers and love. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>You sir are correct, I was mistaken / wrong about casting on the move being nerfed do to PvP - I do apoligize and will try to double check myself better in the future <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

dragonteargoes

05-11-2010, 02:42 PM

I am only a level 73 ranger and I can tell you that in PVE I cause less damage then most of the others when we group. My husband actually commented about how his mentored lvl 90 Mystic did more damage in the fight then I did. That was upsetting to me, but I just blamed it on the level difference. I am gathering from this thread that even when I am level 90 I will be far behind others in my damage. If I didn't like Rangers so much I would scrap my current toon and make a new class. I have been told that currently in the original EQ rangers are dangerously OPed. Maybe the developers are hesitant to help because of how much they oped them in the past.

Sydares

05-11-2010, 05:20 PM

<cite>dragonteargoes wrote:</cite><blockquote> I have been told that currently in the original EQ rangers are dangerously OPed. Maybe the developers are hesitant to help because of how much they oped them in the past.</blockquote>It depended on the expansion - we were pathetic for several, and overpowered for a few.