Challenger armor

[Grumble69]

<p>Will there be any mechanism for us to turn in our existing pieces?  e.g. kind of like turning in TSO T1 pieces + shards for a T2?  Right now it costs slightly more than the normal pieces and it's obviously slightly better + has blue & white adornment slot.  That's fine.  But I've been playing BG for a while and buying pieces for when I turn 90.  I wouldn't have bought the "lesser gear" if I had known there was going to be the Challenger armor.  It's going to be a huge waste if I have to start over from square 1.</p>

[Sydares]

<p>Seriously. The idea of having to run Smuggler's Den again for another 280 bottles or so just to get minute upgrades is making me feel a little ill at the moment.</p>

[Crismorn]

<p>Then dont do smugglers and dont get the gear.</p>

[Sydares]

<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Then dont do smugglers and dont get the gear.</p></blockquote><p>I like BGs. Just not horrible luck-based ones.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Sydares wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Then dont do smugglers and dont get the gear.</p></blockquote><p>I like BGs. Just not horrible luck-based ones.</p></blockquote><p>Smugglers isn't luck other than how many idiots get put on your team v how many idiots are on their team. This can be eliminated by going in with 1-2 Solid groups or a full raid though.</p>

[Sydares]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Smugglers isn't luck other than how many idiots get put on your team v how many idiots are on their team.</p></blockquote><p>Yes. So, if you're PuGging, dumb luck. It's [Removed for Content] near impossible for one player (particularly my scout) to sway the flow of battle, and therefore I hate it. Anyhow, we've drifted offtopic - the token cost for essentially putting a blue adorn on your existing gear is absurd.</p>

[EndevorX]

<p><span style="color: #ff6600;">There are already 2 threads on this, the first one started by Runelaron, the second by EverRude.</span></p><p><a href="list.m?topic_id=477370">1st Campaign and I have nothing to show for it.</a></p><p><a href="list.m?topic_id=477390">BG Armor Upgrade Path</a></p><p><cite>Seliri@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p> <blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">There's already a thread on this...</span></p><p><cite>Seliri@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p> <blockquote><p><cite>Runelaron wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I am not asking you to hand us this 1st campaign armor or Challenged armor, but I am asking if you guys can give us a way to upgrade so it does not feel like im starting from scratch.</p><p>Like the t1 2 3, ext TSO and SF gear.</p><p>I would like you to consider this option because as of now it feels like im starting from scratch and having to re-grind the same 3 BG's for another 1000+ tokens.</p><p>Thanks.</p><p>PS. you might say well I have my current BG to help me win them faster.. I doubt that will average out. </p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Your currrent battlegrounds gear WON'T help you gear out faster because you'll be going against people who are already fully equipped as well.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">The bottom line is that Nagafenians and Voxians who stay locked in the 80-89 bracket to abuse their TSO PvP armor are getting ahead of players who bit the bullet and established veterancy in the level 90 bracket.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Fundamentally, it's wrong to punish veterans for making the commitment and exposing themselves at a tier where the competition is a lot more well rounded.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">The way veterans are being punished is in how players who are stacking tokens in the 80-89 bracket will be able to hit 90 and have a full set of blue adornment PvP gear on the DAY it goes live, WITHOUT HAVING TO WASTE 510 TOKENS (AKA 56.6 hrs, assuming: an equal win to loss ratio, gears/ganak rounds of 10 minutes, and smugglers rounds of 20 minutes).</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Blue adornment "challenger" battlegrounds/PvP gear simply needs to cost the original battlegrounds piece, plus 5, 10, or 25 of two token types.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">(P.S. Say the average battlegrounds user plays 2 hrs 45 m of ONLY battlegrounds a day, 5 days a week, that's 4 weeks BEHIND their competitors that level 90 veterans will be when it comes to 80-89 players who have HUNDREDS of tokens ready to spend. And no, that isn't counting all the other PvE time players will likely be logging, on top of all the hours and days battlegrounds tend to be down.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Veteran's DO NOT DESERVE this negative type of treatment which celebrates slanted standards stacked in the favor of ONLY Nagafen and Vox [i.e. they are the only players in the 80-89 bracket that have had access to TSO, T4 raid-quality gear...with SUBSTANTIAL amounts of toughness].)</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">(P.P.S. The PvP/battlegrounds legplates need Torrent I/II or Pestilential Rain I/II and the regenerating Ancient Invigoration I/II like the PvE raiders get.)</span></p></blockquote> <p><cite>overmonk2 wrote:</cite></p> <blockquote><p><cite>Seliri@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Blue adornment "challenger" battlegrounds/PvP gear simply needs to cost the original battlegrounds piece, plus 5, 10, or 25 of two token types.</span></p></blockquote><p>+1</p></blockquote> <p><cite>Runelaron wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>overmonk2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Seliri@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Blue adornment "challenger" battlegrounds/PvP gear simply needs to cost the original battlegrounds piece, plus 5, 10, or 25 of two token types.</span></p></blockquote><p>+1</p></blockquote><p>Second that opinion. Campaigns need to have both options, I do understand in the future being able to skip the older unplayed maps, but for the seasoned people to have no advantage, well I see that as a problem.</p><p>Due to the fact that there will probably always be more seasoned people than newcommers in the future BG Maps.</p></blockquote></blockquote><p><cite>Tenka@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p> <blockquote>wow. i'm not sure i can go through with farming a whole new set of armor. they should fix this.</blockquote><p><cite>Swisha@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>EverRude wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The new BG armor costs the same as the old armor. Why would anyone now buy brutallic if challenger costs the same and is better? Appearance? I think the brutallic should be required to buy the challenger. Simular to the T1 to T3 upgardes. But since the stats are only slightly better on the chalenger set, except for the blue adorn, the price should be low. Example: Brutallic shoulders cost 40 gears and 40 wheels. Challenger shoulders cost Brutallic shoulders 15 gears and 15 wheels. This way you don't hose players you already bought the now inferior brutallic set and you instead reward them for playing through the bugs. It would also feel like progression rather than feeling like you wasted a lot of tokens. [Edit] I know I have the real costs wrong but I don't have access to game to make it accurate. It's just an example.</p></blockquote><p>Agree... I adorned my current gear too. I can deal with loss of fabled adornments but I really think there should be a turn-in reduction esp since some of my pieces were obtained through open world pvp.</p><p>Sony... Give us a break on this one please.</p></blockquote> <p><cite>Dojac@Vox wrote:</cite></p> <blockquote><p>Agreed 100%.  Don't roll back all the work we've already put into the BGs.</p></blockquote> <p><cite>Maikeruu wrote:</cite></p> <blockquote><p>I am hoping the new armor outright replaces the old or at worst costs a small number of tokens to switch to.  It may just have both showing on test for comparison.  If everyone is expected to just start over that will be rather frustrating to those that have spent many long hours in the battlegrounds.</p><p>Some kind of confirmation of what the plan is should help with feedback.</p><p>*Edit* I see the new ones cost about five more of each type of token, so maybe paying that and an exchange vendor would be the best option.</p></blockquote><p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p> <blockquote><p>Have the Season 1 gear cost the old gear + 50-100 tokens to upgrade. Blue addornment slots are a powerful thing.</p></blockquote> <p><cite>Rocc@Unrest wrote:</cite></p> <blockquote><p>I agree that the gear is pretty darn nice. But the blue adornments (espeically for scouts) is just WAY too much. They are too easy to purchase the blue adornments. The gear itself is really nice but but perhaps a higher cost like T1 BG gear+ tokens + plat is the way to go. Just my opinion.</p></blockquote>

[KatrinaDeath]

<p>There are a few threads about this topic and I hope they get consoladited.</p><p>I agree we shouldnt have to regear without being able to trade up to new gear with a lesser token cost.</p>

[Kota]

for shizzle

[LardLord]

<p>They should probably require the current peice in order to buy the upgraded pieces?  I assumed they would...otherwise what's the point of even having or acquiring the current armor?</p><p><strong>EDIT:</strong> Oh, everyone said that in the quotes above...let's make it happen, SOE!</p>

[Crismorn]

<p><cite>Sydares wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Then dont do smugglers and dont get the gear.</p></blockquote><p>I like BGs. Just not horrible luck-based ones.</p></blockquote><p>It's 24 vs 24, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. </p>

[Sydares]

<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It's 24 vs 24, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. </p></blockquote><p>Let's keep talking about this forever.</p>

[Crismorn]

<p>I pug most if not all my bg's and I dont see this so called luck factor you see.</p><p>If you want to think that the game is decided by which team you spawn on then go for it, just dont expect others to follow such a moronic belief</p>

[EndevorX]

<p><cite>Quote:</cite></p><blockquote><span style="color: #ff6600;">Make challenger battlegrounds armor cost the old piece plus a sum of tokens (5/10/15/25 of each type). As it is, veterans stand to lose the commitment of 510 tokens or 56.6 hrs of playtime, assuming equal wins/losses (an average of 2 tokens gained), 10 minute gears/ganak rounds, and 20 minute smuggler rounds.</span> <span style="color: #ff6600;"> 56.6 hrs of playtime equates to a MONTH worth of playtime LOST, playing on ONLY battlegrounds for 2hrs 45 mins 5 days out of the week.</span> <span style="color: #ff6600;"> Nagafenians/Voxians from open world PvP servers are also at an advantage for abusing their "The Shadow Odyssey" T4, PvP Fabled gear, the only kind in 80-89 with substantial quantities of toughness. They're able to obtain gear against odds less well rounded than those at 90 (as then players have to compete with PvEers equipped in raid gear, as well as fully battlegrounds geared foes).</span> <span style="color: #ff6600;"> This alteration would ensure level 90 veterans have their time commitments respected without wasting all of their experience in battlegrounds.</span></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Log into test or test copy and put the quoted portion in a /feedback submission, please.</span></p>

[StaticLex]

<p>If you are a great player in a gears pug you have a MUCH better chance of helping pull out a win for your team than if you are a great player in a den.  If you can't see that I don't know what else to say.  The problem with den is the ridiculous amount of time spent playing for the exact same reward.  Think about it, how many people would actually play den if they didn't need bottles?  Nobody, because it sucks.  If they made den reward 9 bottles for a win and 3 for a loss (for example) then maybe people would actually enjoy playing it and do so voluntarily.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>StaticLex wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you are a great player in a gears pug you have a MUCH better chance of helping pull out a win for your team than if you are a great player in a den.  If you can't see that I don't know what else to say.  The problem with den is the ridiculous amount of time spent playing for the exact same reward.  Think about it, how many people would actually play den if they didn't need bottles?  Nobody, because it sucks.  If they made den reward 9 bottles for a win and 3 for a loss (for example) then maybe people would actually enjoy playing it and do so voluntarily.</p></blockquote><p>I would, if I had 1 solid group atleast.</p>

[LardLord]

<p><cite>StaticLex wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Think about it, how many people would actually play den if they didn't need bottles?  Nobody, because it sucks. </p></blockquote><p>Smugglers is my favorite of the three.  Even queuing solo it's fun for me /shrug</p><p>I wish they kept track of your win/loss records (by scenario and whether you queue solo or with friends, that'd rock!) 'cause I'm pretty sure I win a lot more Smugglers than I lose, even when queuing solo.</p>

[Crismorn]

<p><cite>StaticLex wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you are a great player in a gears pug you have a MUCH better chance of helping pull out a win for your team than if you are a great player in a den.  If you can't see that I don't know what else to say.  The problem with den is the ridiculous amount of time spent playing for the exact same reward.  Think about it, how many people would actually play den if they didn't need bottles?  Nobody, because it sucks.  If they made den reward 9 bottles for a win and 3 for a loss (for example) then maybe people would actually enjoy playing it and do so voluntarily.</p></blockquote><p>Smugglers is by far my favourite bg map/scenario</p>

[Vulkan_NTooki]

<p>My fav too.. I just wish they could be run more often on runnyeye/splitpaw.. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[EverRude]

<p>I find it hard to believe there's not more discussion about this. The brutallic armor most of us have purchased will be obsolete in a couple of weeks and anyone new buying armor will be buying better gear than we have. We played through the bugs and downtimes. We tested and gave feedback. And our reward is to have the gear we bought go obsolete within a couple of months of buying it. Had I known that in 3 months they would release better armor, with no trade-in or sell back option, I would have saved my tokens. If this is going to be a regular pattern I need to know so I can save this season's tokens to buy next season's gear. I don't need to have to buy all new gear every season as incentive to play. I have 3 other end tier classes I wanna play in BG that give me that incentive more naturally.A lot of us have adorned our brutallic. It's not like we'd getting a painless free upgrade. The new gear should require the old gear plus more tokens. Someone new would simply buy brutallic first. Maybe use it awhile then buy the challenger. Or immediately by the challenger. Either way it would cost them the same it cost us. Brutallic should have a trade-in or sell back option.</p>

[FreddyRo]

<p>+1</p>

[EndevorX]

<p><cite>EverRude wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Had I known that in 3 months they would release better armor, with no trade-in or sell back option, I would have saved my tokens. </p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">QFE.</span><span style="color: #ff0000;"> Had I known that in 3 months they would release better armor that DIDNT cost the old piece plus some tokens, but a WHOLE NEW sum of tokens</span><span style="color: #ff6600;">, then I too would've saved my tokens and instructed everyone I know to do so as well.</span></p>

[Kota]

i used to hate the idea of increasing the number of tokens for any of the bg's. but now, i don't mind. if i have to buy a whole new set of [Removed for Content] bg gear....

[Crismorn]

<p><cite>Seliri@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>EverRude wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Had I known that in 3 months they would release better armor, with no trade-in or sell back option, I would have saved my tokens. </p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">QFE.</span><span style="color: #ff0000;"> Had I known that in 3 months they would release better armor that DIDNT cost the old piece plus some tokens, but a WHOLE NEW sum of tokens</span><span style="color: #ff6600;">, then I too would've saved my tokens and instructed everyone I know to do so as well.</span></p></blockquote><p>I'm sorry that you will have to afk for more gear, my heart goes out to you</p>

[Shorcon]

<p><cite>StaticLex wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you are a great player in a gears pug you have a MUCH better chance of helping pull out a win for your team than if you are a great player in a den.  If you can't see that I don't know what else to say.  The problem with den is the ridiculous amount of time spent playing for the exact same reward.  Think about it, how many people would actually play den if they didn't need bottles?  Nobody, because it sucks.  If they made den reward 9 bottles for a win and 3 for a loss (for example) then maybe people would actually enjoy playing it and do so voluntarily.</p></blockquote><p>Smugg wins are based on great leadership. Pug or not. If you have someone who actualy makes good calls you will have a great match. This takes some thought and opening the map veiw a quite a bit. It also takes people listening to the raid leader.</p><p>I know, I know. Alot of the time you get that guy who says just form up and circuit around. Then QQ's from top of center tower when groups disolve. [Removed for Content]. I personaly cant stand this. Its more than a simple plan that makes smuggs work or even fun with a loss. You have to make good calls. You have to see the enemys progression on the map and make moves to counter them. A few strats that I have called out that win sometimes.</p><p>Move from lava to skull without using the path that you know you will be spotted walkin on. Stay close to the chasm. This is a great strat for the ground crew if you hold center because not only does it keep you moving for the 2 heavy point flags, it also puts the ground team in a great position to reinforce center.</p><p>Make sure people on center arent just standing there. Make some look to the sky. Make some watch the bridges to center. Make some look out to skull/lava and call what they see. It's great information to hear that a x2 is moving north from lava. The people on the ground can use that heafty info. Get in depth with it. Here is something I might call out in smuggs.</p><p>"x2 moving north from skull to cresent. Tank 2scouts mage no heals......You people at cresent kill that illy first. (tank at cresent) be sure your taunting. (heals at cresent) be sure your healing that tank. "</p><p>Smuggs is the most skill imposed map in bg. It takes more than a basic plan to W. It takes tons of common sense and as we all know common sense is lacking in alot of players.</p><p>Simple crap. Dont get caught up fighting a zerker at south bridge to center. He is unkillable for a long time in most cases and you are wasting valueable time not capping flags. Dps find that tank heal tandem. It will get you mass kills if you can learn to feed off it. Ask to be rezed by a healer close to were you died if you have a 20+ revive counter. Rez the dead no matter what if the fight is over or if you know they are dead and right next to you. Let the raid know were they are using x1 x2 x3 x4 and dont exagerate this. I have heard x1's called x3's. This kills us. Know what classes are near by and ask them to use their tools if you know what they are. Nul caress, hook arrow, fear, root, mez, and many more. Get into the game. Dont give people crap if you are loosing or they arent listening. This is disheartening to the noobs and they will be less apt to listen next time you are calling the bg than they already are.</p><p>Hope this helps some. Good luck.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>EverRude wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I find it hard to believe there's not more discussion about this. The brutallic armor most of us have purchased will be obsolete in a couple of weeks</p></blockquote><p>The brutallic armor was obsolete the moment I purchaced it.   I bought a full set, equiped it, and found it caused me to take more damage than pve gear.</p><p>10 minutes after purchacing it, it became appearance gear only.</p><p>Lets just admit the itemization of it was total failsauce and allow for turning it back in for some % of its orriginal cost.</p>

[Dojac]

<p><cite>EverRude wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I find it hard to believe there's not more discussion about this. The brutallic armor most of us have purchased will be obsolete in a couple of weeks and anyone new buying armor will be buying better gear than we have. We played through the bugs and downtimes. We tested and gave feedback. And our reward is to have the gear we bought go obsolete within a couple of months of buying it. Had I known that in 3 months they would release better armor, with no trade-in or sell back option, I would have saved my tokens. If this is going to be a regular pattern I need to know so I can save this season's tokens to buy next season's gear. I don't need to have to buy all new gear every season as incentive to play. I have 3 other end tier classes I wanna play in BG that give me that incentive more naturally.A lot of us have adorned our brutallic. It's not like we'd getting a painless free upgrade. The new gear should require the old gear plus more tokens. Someone new would simply buy brutallic first. Maybe use it awhile then buy the challenger. Or immediately by the challenger. Either way it would cost them the same it cost us. Brutallic should have a trade-in or sell back option.</p></blockquote><p>The discussion is in the "in testing" forum where it ought to be.  Register your discontent there.  I think the devs will pay attention.</p>

[EverRude]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>EverRude wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I find it hard to believe there's not more discussion about this. The brutallic armor most of us have purchased will be obsolete in a couple of weeks</p></blockquote><p>The brutallic armor was obsolete the moment I purchaced it.   I bought a full set, equiped it, and found it caused me to take more damage than pve gear.</p><p>10 minutes after purchacing it, it became appearance gear only.</p><p>Lets just admit the itemization of it was total failsauce and allow for turning it back in for some % of its orriginal cost.</p></blockquote><p>If you have raid gear ofcourse it's not as good. That would be another issue and OT to go there though. But for those of us with only heroic armor to play in the Brutallic is superior for BG.</p>

[EverRude]

<p><cite>Dojac@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>EverRude wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I find it hard to believe there's not more discussion about this. The brutallic armor most of us have purchased will be obsolete in a couple of weeks and anyone new buying armor will be buying better gear than we have. We played through the bugs and downtimes. We tested and gave feedback. And our reward is to have the gear we bought go obsolete within a couple of months of buying it. Had I known that in 3 months they would release better armor, with no trade-in or sell back option, I would have saved my tokens. If this is going to be a regular pattern I need to know so I can save this season's tokens to buy next season's gear. I don't need to have to buy all new gear every season as incentive to play. I have 3 other end tier classes I wanna play in BG that give me that incentive more naturally.A lot of us have adorned our brutallic. It's not like we'd getting a painless free upgrade. The new gear should require the old gear plus more tokens. Someone new would simply buy brutallic first. Maybe use it awhile then buy the challenger. Or immediately by the challenger. Either way it would cost them the same it cost us. Brutallic should have a trade-in or sell back option.</p></blockquote><p>The discussion is in the "in testing" forum where it ought to be.  Register your discontent there.  I think the devs will pay attention.</p></blockquote><p>I agree with you. But this forum gets alot of Dev attention specifically because ALL BG are test right now. Not just the ones on Test server. However the armor in question is only on the test server so you point is definitely valid. I would prefer discussion happens there. I imagine though that the "nothing I say will change anything" mentality some players have keep them from even bothering to read test forums much less post. Plus there are a few out there that avoid test because they don't want "spoilers."</p>

[asaron]

<p>bless the known cheaters still testing and trying to sway the game there way  /testcopy add what new things can we exploit this week lol make testing like beta bad marks on account no access in 2010 do eeeeet</p>