BG Armor Upgrade Path [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

EverRude

04-27-2010, 10:09 AM

The new BG armor costs the same as the old armor. Why would anyone now buy brutallic if challenger costs the same and is better? Appearance? I think the brutallic should be required to buy the challenger. Simular to the T1 to T3 upgardes. But since the stats are only slightly better on the chalenger set, except for the blue adorn, the price should be low. Example: Brutallic shoulders cost 40 gears and 40 wheels. Challenger shoulders cost Brutallic shoulders 15 gears and 15 wheels. This way you don't hose players you already bought the now inferior brutallic set and you instead reward them for playing through the bugs. It would also feel like progression rather than feeling like you wasted a lot of tokens. [Edit] I know I have the real costs wrong but I don't have access to game to make it accurate. It's just an example.

Maikeruu

04-27-2010, 02:31 PM

I am hoping the new armor outright replaces the old or at worst costs a small number of tokens to switch to. It may just have both showing on test for comparison. If everyone is expected to just start over that will be rather frustrating to those that have spent many long hours in the battlegrounds.Some kind of confirmation of what the plan is should help with feedback.*Edit* I see the new ones cost about five more of each type of token, so maybe paying that and an exchange vendor would be the best option.

Armironhead

04-27-2010, 02:39 PM

gear should not be a reward in the bgs period.Gear creates an insurmontable wall between new players and vets. It would be one thing if soe allowed for the rating of players and the sorting of games based on newbee/vet status, but with the random matchmaker all the gear does is grant vets an advantage that cannot be overcome by any new player. A new player is thus doomed to countless hours of death grinding before they can achieve a remotely even playing field. Sure vets should have an advantage from being vets, but the wall soe has created here is way too high. If it was up to me I would just make plat, aa and exp as the reward in the bgs.

EndevorX

04-27-2010, 02:54 PM

There's already a thread on this...<cite>Seliri@Nagafen wrote:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Runelaron wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am not asking you to hand us this 1st campaign armor or Challenged armor, but I am asking if you guys can give us a way to upgrade so it does not feel like im starting from scratch.Like the t1 2 3, ext TSO and SF gear.I would like you to consider this option because as of now it feels like im starting from scratch and having to re-grind the same 3 BG's for another 1000+ tokens.Thanks.PS. you might say well I have my current BG to help me win them faster.. I doubt that will average out. </blockquote>Your currrent battlegrounds gear WON'T help you gear out faster because you'll be going against people who are already fully equipped as well.The bottom line is that Nagafenians and Voxians who stay locked in the 80-89 bracket to abuse their TSO PvP armor are getting ahead of players who bit the bullet and established veterancy in the level 90 bracket.Fundamentally, it's wrong to punish veterans for making the commitment and exposing themselves at a tier where the competition is a lot more well rounded.The way veterans are being punished is in how players who are stacking tokens in the 80-89 bracket will be able to hit 90 and have a full set of blue adornment PvP gear on the DAY it goes live, WITHOUT HAVING TO WASTE 510 TOKENS (AKA 56.6 hrs, assuming: an equal win to loss ratio, gears/ganak rounds of 10 minutes, and smugglers rounds of 20 minutes).Blue adornment "challenger" battlegrounds/PvP gear simply needs to cost the original battlegrounds piece, plus 5, 10, or 25 of two token types.(P.S. Say the average battlegrounds user plays 2 hrs 45 m of ONLY battlegrounds a day, 5 days a week, that's 4 weeks BEHIND their competitors that level 90 veterans will be when it comes to 80-89 players who have HUNDREDS of tokens ready to spend. And no, that isn't counting all the other PvE time players will likely be logging, on top of all the hours and days battlegrounds tend to be down.Veteran's DO NOT DESERVE this negative type of treatment which celebrates slanted standards stacked in the favor of ONLY Nagafen and Vox [i.e. they are the only players in the 80-89 bracket that have had access to TSO, T4 raid-quality gear...with SUBSTANTIAL amounts of toughness].)(P.P.S. The PvP/battlegrounds legplates need Torrent I/II or Pestilential Rain I/II and the regenerating Ancient Invigoration I/II like the PvE raiders get.)</blockquote> <cite>overmonk2 wrote:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Seliri@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Blue adornment "challenger" battlegrounds/PvP gear simply needs to cost the original battlegrounds piece, plus 5, 10, or 25 of two token types.</blockquote>+1</blockquote> <cite>Runelaron wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>overmonk2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Seliri@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Blue adornment "challenger" battlegrounds/PvP gear simply needs to cost the original battlegrounds piece, plus 5, 10, or 25 of two token types.</blockquote>+1</blockquote>Second that opinion. Campaigns need to have both options, I do understand in the future being able to skip the older unplayed maps, but for the seasoned people to have no advantage, well I see that as a problem.Due to the fact that there will probably always be more seasoned people than newcommers in the future BG Maps.</blockquote>

Corydonn

04-27-2010, 02:56 PM

Have the Season 1 gear cost the old gear + 50-100 tokens to upgrade. Blue addornment slots are a powerful thing.

Rocc

04-27-2010, 03:25 PM

I agree that the gear is pretty darn nice. But the blue adornments (espeically for scouts) is just WAY too much. They are too easy to purchase the blue adornments. The gear itself is really nice but but perhaps a higher cost like T1 BG gear+ tokens + plat is the way to go. Just my opinion.

KatrinaDeath

04-27-2010, 03:26 PM

<cite>EverRude wrote:</cite><blockquote>The new BG armor costs the same as the old armor. Why would anyone now buy brutallic if challenger costs the same and is better? Appearance? I think the brutallic should be required to buy the challenger. Simular to the T1 to T3 upgardes. But since the stats are only slightly better on the chalenger set, except for the blue adorn, the price should be low. Example: Brutallic shoulders cost 40 gears and 40 wheels. Challenger shoulders cost Brutallic shoulders 15 gears and 15 wheels. This way you don't hose players you already bought the now inferior brutallic set and you instead reward them for playing through the bugs. It would also feel like progression rather than feeling like you wasted a lot of tokens. [Edit] I know I have the real costs wrong but I don't have access to game to make it accurate. It's just an example.</blockquote>Agree... I adorned my current gear too. I can deal with loss of fabled adornments but I really think there should be a turn-in reduction esp since some of my pieces were obtained through open world pvp.Sony... Give us a break on this one please.

Dojac

04-27-2010, 03:45 PM

<cite>EverRude wrote:</cite><blockquote>The new BG armor costs the same as the old armor. Why would anyone now buy brutallic if challenger costs the same and is better? Appearance? I think the brutallic should be required to buy the challenger. Simular to the T1 to T3 upgardes. But since the stats are only slightly better on the chalenger set, except for the blue adorn, the price should be low. Example: Brutallic shoulders cost 40 gears and 40 wheels. Challenger shoulders cost Brutallic shoulders 15 gears and 15 wheels. This way you don't hose players you already bought the now inferior brutallic set and you instead reward them for playing through the bugs. It would also feel like progression rather than feeling like you wasted a lot of tokens. [Edit] I know I have the real costs wrong but I don't have access to game to make it accurate. It's just an example.</blockquote>Agreed 100%. Don't roll back all the work we've already put into the BGs.

EverRude

04-27-2010, 04:16 PM

The other thing is. This is the first campain set. Which is implies there will be a second and so on. This will occur every 3 or 4 months? So just about the time I get one set I have to start all over. And your right. I completely forgot I have a lot of plat in adorns in my current gear. They should have added the blue adorns to existing gear and removed brutallic as an option to buy. Only offer the current season. Stats are still an upgrade from brutallic but it doesn't [Removed for Content] those of us that already played through the bugs and spent tokens on the preseason gear. People buying current gear would be better off than the vets but no overly so. As it would be now. I think they did this to keep people motivated to continue to play BG for better gear.Guess what? I have 3 other 90's and 6 others at other tiers I want to BG with. I wasn't intending to stop playing BG anytime soon. I don't need, and do not want to be forced to upgrade every few months, as motivation. Especially not when raiders get to bypass the whole system and rock BG in superior raid gear and red adorns. If it stays the way it is I'm done playing BG regularly. No point grinding for gear that will be virtually obsolete every 4 months or so. And there's no way I'll do it for 9 chars. Give brutallic blue adorns. Or make it a trade in. I'm not so rich I can ignore the plat I have in my current gear. It will hurt to trade in but it's the only way I will continue to play BG regularly. I'd prefer they simply added blue adorns to brutallic. Why not reward those of us who tested BG during this preseason rather than hose us.

Grumble69

04-27-2010, 04:24 PM

+1 for the suggested changes. It would be akin to the T1 & T2 armor in TSO. I also like the progression of that path:1. MC gear -- good starter set2. T1 BG gear (current) -- a good upgrade to the MC3. T2 BG gear (1st campaign) -- it's not hugely superior to the T1, but it allows some customization. Consider it advanced T1. Personally I'd consider upping the price a bit. Right now it takes maybe 4-6 matches more than the current piece? Depending on whether you need smugglers (and your luck), that's no more than 1-1.5hrs of playtime.--------And it's not a huge change over the existing system. It's just not a kick-to-the-groin for those of us who have been playing since the start. Afterall, we've endured a fair number of miseries along the way--characters losing things, BGs going down, innumerable crashes, etc etc. Why penalize us further?

Armironhead

04-27-2010, 05:18 PM

<cite>EverRude wrote:</cite><blockquote>The other thing is. This is the first campain set. Which is implies there will be a second and so on. This will occur every 3 or 4 months? So just about the time I get one set I have to start all over. And your right. I completely forgot I have a lot of plat in adorns in my current gear. They should have added the blue adorns to existing gear and removed brutallic as an option to buy. Only offer the current season. Stats are still an upgrade from brutallic but it doesn't [Removed for Content] those of us that already played through the bugs and spent tokens on the preseason gear. People buying current gear would be better off than the vets but no overly so. As it would be now. I think they did this to keep people motivated to continue to play BG for better gear.Guess what? I have 3 other 90's and 6 others at other tiers I want to BG with. I wasn't intending to stop playing BG anytime soon. I don't need, and do not want to be forced to upgrade every few months, as motivation. Especially not when raiders get to bypass the whole system and rock BG in superior raid gear and red adorns. If it stays the way it is I'm done playing BG regularly. No point grinding for gear that will be virtually obsolete every 4 months or so. And there's no way I'll do it for 9 chars. Give brutallic blue adorns. Or make it a trade in. I'm not so rich I can ignore the plat I have in my current gear. It will hurt to trade in but it's the only way I will continue to play BG regularly. I'd prefer they simply added blue adorns to brutallic. Why not reward those of us who tested BG during this preseason rather than hose us.</blockquote>jeeze i was looking forward to the day when I could say I was done with the bgs being completely geared out, and thus never having to go back. It sucks bad enough that if you want to be competative in pvp you have to make the bgs your eq2 career.

Lodor

04-27-2010, 08:24 PM

THe problem is if you play on nagafen or vox and you dont bg you will be stuck with outdated pvp gear.Since, at this moment it does not look like they will be changing/adding new pvp server token gear.

Armawk

04-27-2010, 08:35 PM

Im not sure I see how this all works.. Is there, anywhere, a sensible description of what the new BG armour system is and how it works?If this second tier gear is really good, even better than the already good bg gear, is there going to be any realistic way for new entrants from PvE to take part in battlegrounds except for dieing a few thousand times to get enough tokens for this gear to compete with those who are already on the ladder? It sounds from what is being said like someone who buys the MC stuff to start might as well not bother as the news stuff is just going to overwhelm it?

Hellswrath

04-27-2010, 09:15 PM

Trying to force players to upgrade every couple months by making their current gear obsolete is a bad trend, IMO. People don't want to feel like they're wasting their time working towards gear that is going to be made obsolete not long after they manage to finish.You want to entice people who have geared out to continue playing in BGs? Find another way. Better mounts/titles/house items are one relatively easy way to convince people to play. You could go further and put in better adorns with high prices. A long term plan other than resetting the gear grind every few months seems prudent to me.However, a trade-in system seems the best approach for this new gear, since they have the new adorn slots.

Armironhead

04-27-2010, 09:53 PM

<cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote>Im not sure I see how this all works.. Is there, anywhere, a sensible description of what the new BG armour system is and how it works?If this second tier gear is really good, even better than the already good bg gear, is there going to be any realistic way for new entrants from PvE to take part in battlegrounds except for dieing a few thousand times to get enough tokens for this gear to compete with those who are already on the ladder? It sounds from what is being said like someone who buys the MC stuff to start might as well not bother as the news stuff is just going to overwhelm it?</blockquote>The answer is no and no. As things currently stand, it seems to be another halfbaked, ill thought out soe boondogle. Soe is in a bind. They have invested a lot of time and energy in making bgs work and they have to keep people playing them to justify their effort. But the bgs are the same old thing over and over again. So how do you get folk to replay the same old crap yet again? Easy make the old gear obsolete and require folk to grind the same instances for the new gear. Punish the vets for playing the game and make being a new player an unbelieveable death grind before you can even get close to competitive seems to be the name of the game.

Grumble69

04-27-2010, 11:33 PM

<cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote>If this second tier gear is really good, even better than the already good bg gear, is there going to be any realistic way for new entrants from PvE to take part in battlegrounds except for dieing a few thousand times to get enough tokens for this gear to compete with those who are already on the ladder? It sounds from what is being said like someone who buys the MC stuff to start might as well not bother as the news stuff is just going to overwhelm it?</blockquote>The MC is definitely worthwhile for starting BGs. The difference between this new tier and the original is very slight. The biggest issue is that this newer tier has a blue AND white adornment slot whereas the original only has the white. Stat-wise, it's probably not going to make THAT much difference.Having said that, a lot of the fun is in customizing your char. And I don't see why the folks that have been playing through the rocky waters of the BG system should be faced with starting over from scratch. A "turn-in" system doesn't penalize anyone, new or old.

Armawk

04-28-2010, 12:12 AM

<cite>Grumble69 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote>If this second tier gear is really good, even better than the already good bg gear, is there going to be any realistic way for new entrants from PvE to take part in battlegrounds except for dieing a few thousand times to get enough tokens for this gear to compete with those who are already on the ladder? It sounds from what is being said like someone who buys the MC stuff to start might as well not bother as the news stuff is just going to overwhelm it?</blockquote>The MC is definitely worthwhile for starting BGs. The difference between this new tier and the original is very slight. The biggest issue is that this newer tier has a blue AND white adornment slot whereas the original only has the white. Stat-wise, it's probably not going to make THAT much difference.Having said that, a lot of the fun is in customizing your char. And I don't see why the folks that have been playing through the rocky waters of the BG system should be faced with starting over from scratch. A "turn-in" system doesn't penalize anyone, new or old.</blockquote>The MC is of course well worth getting now, but I dunno, the current token gear is already pretty hugely better than the MC, all the procs etc guarantee that.. with these blue adorns and presumably further upgrades I worry that its going to end up being a closed game, which those not already in there are going to find just unplayable when they dabble, and thus leave.

Sydares

04-28-2010, 02:09 AM

<cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote>The answer is no and no. As things currently stand, it seems to be another halfbaked, ill thought out soe boondogle. Soe is in a bind. They have invested a lot of time and energy in making bgs work and they have to keep people playing them to justify their effort. But the bgs are the same old thing over and over again. So how do you get folk to replay the same old crap yet again? Easy make the old gear obsolete and require folk to grind the same instances for the new gear. Punish the vets for playing the game and make being a new player an unbelieveable death grind before you can even get close to competitive seems to be the name of the game.</blockquote>Which is exactly why 'toughness' was a stupid idea to begin with, honestly. It was stupid in World of Warcraft as resilience, and it's been stupid in EQ2 for exactly the same reason. It creates a stark power divide that is extremely punishing for newcomers, eventually leading to stagnation.

Cyra

04-28-2010, 05:05 AM

I join those saying that I hope there is a turn in system so that the time spent grinding for a full set of BG gear in a very buggy side-game isn't wasted. Otherwise I can't see anyone buying the first set of gear. Why trade up when you can outright buy a better set with 5 more tokens?I can't wait to actually get into a test BG match, every time I log in the BG arena is down.

EverRude

04-28-2010, 07:26 AM

What I'm also curious about is how, if at all, they will change the open world armor to match the new set. They made the bg and open world pvp gear match so far. Even did a recent patch to change items to make them match. Will open world get a new set they'll have to buy or will the open world get their gear updated?I really have lost my desire to play BG right now. I wish we could get some word as to the reasoning with the current purchase system. I'd like to know whether they considered the tradein system and ruled it out. Or whether they are considering it now, due to our feedback. If it stays the way it is it's time to shelve the ranger again and start leveling my tanks to get more serious about PvE.

thog_zork

04-28-2010, 09:47 AM

the trade-in system is the way to go !

Valind

04-28-2010, 09:51 AM

What happened to "If you want the gear, do the content'???In the BG forum we have people saying no to token swaps because you then wouldn't have to complete the content. yet here we see people saying they want token swaps?Hypocrits the lot of you!

Armironhead

04-28-2010, 10:10 AM

<cite>Grumble69 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote>If this second tier gear is really good, even better than the already good bg gear, is there going to be any realistic way for new entrants from PvE to take part in battlegrounds except for dieing a few thousand times to get enough tokens for this gear to compete with those who are already on the ladder? It sounds from what is being said like someone who buys the MC stuff to start might as well not bother as the news stuff is just going to overwhelm it?</blockquote>The MC is definitely worthwhile for starting BGs. The difference between this new tier and the original is very slight. The biggest issue is that this newer tier has a blue AND white adornment slot whereas the original only has the white. Stat-wise, it's probably not going to make THAT much difference.Having said that, a lot of the fun is in customizing your char. And I don't see why the folks that have been playing through the rocky waters of the BG system should be faced with starting over from scratch. A "turn-in" system doesn't penalize anyone, new or old.</blockquote>MC gear is worthwhile if you are playing against other persons using mc gear. The little bit of survivability is hardly worth the cost if you are going up against a person in full bg gear. Really soe should have had a ranking system from the start with a hub so that players could set up their own matches with paramaters such as newbee or vet.Also if they are going to switch up the bg gear every couple of months, it should be made non-fuctional on the open world pvp servers. There is a strong need to be competetive in open world. Its akin to an arms race, with folk spending lots of time trying to acquire the best gear. You simply cant have open world pvp when you have to make a career out of the bgs to get gear that changes every time they launch a new campaign.

EverRude

04-28-2010, 10:15 AM

Valindor I'm not part of that thread about token swaps. I can see both sides of that argument but don't have a preference either way. It's hardly fair to call everyone on this thread a hypocrit when some of us haven't posted one word about token swaps. Please don't get this thread shutdown because you're upset with someone on it. Besides we're not asking to bypass content as you imply. We've done it all. Earned the gear. We're simply no happy that in less than 3 months that effort is being made obsolete.

Armironhead

04-28-2010, 10:17 AM

<cite>Valindor wrote:</cite><blockquote>What happened to "If you want the gear, do the content'???In the BG forum we have people saying no to token swaps because you then wouldn't have to complete the content. yet here we see people saying they want token swaps?Hypocrits the lot of you!</blockquote>pardon me but we've done the content -- again and again and again. Many of us at the danger of our toons being eaten.

Grumble69

04-28-2010, 11:28 AM

People just starting out in MC are going to get completely owned. And it's not going to be entirely due to the gear. There's a big learning curve going from PvE to BG. About the time they start relearning their class and new tactics, they'll have a fair number of tokens to spend on the better gear. I'm fine with this gap. It weeds out the folks that think they're going to lazily alt-z themselves into a set of fabled.If they can fine tune the matchmaker to avoid pitting premades against pugs, it won't be as brutal starting out. But it's a complex issue. You got these premade, "core" 4-man Naggy groups that pick up a couple of nobodies going against some n00b husband-wife duo that also pick a few nobodies. And it's a slaughterfest. There really needs to be a button for "pure pug".

LardLord

04-28-2010, 03:51 PM

If they hadn't done toughness, then raiders would have had a much larger advantage than they do now, and the only way to close the gap would have been to raid...no amount of BGing would do it.

Valind

04-28-2010, 10:01 PM

A brief history of PvP gear in EQ2.KoS PvP: Kill thousands of people to grind faction so you can buy PvP gear. PvP gear is OK and has some nice effects, but raid gear is much better.EoF PvP: KoS PvP gear is mostly now crap. Kill thousands more people to collect tokens to buy a new set of armor. Raid gear is better in every way.RoK PvP: EoF PvP gear is now useless. Kill thousands more people to collect tokens to get a new set of armor. Raid gear is far superior to PvP gear. Its not even close. Then raid gear gets upgraded again and is even better still. Also: Mythical weapons.TSO PvP: RoK PvP gear is still somewhat useful, but easily replaced by legendary drops from instances. Kill thousands more people for tokens to buy new armor. Raid armor is better once again. Raid armor gets upgraded and is even better still. Then we get a (part-time) PvP dev, and PvPers rejoice! (except those that also raid because lets face it, everyone likes being able to win easily). PvP armor is upgraded (read: copy+paste from raid gear) and for the FIRST TIME EVER is actually about as good as raid armor. Well we can't have that...SF PvP: Wether it was the QQ from exiles, or the projected QQ from bluebies (lets face it, the QQ is strong in them thar bluebies. Also, there's heaps of em) PvP gear is now basically useless for raiding, with the exception of some jewelery. Also, half the effects don't work at all in PvE content. Raid gear misses out on toughness, but no one really notices because its just so much better anyways. PvP armor is exact copy+pasta of the bluebiegrounds PvP-in-a-can Armor. It also takes longer to get by actually PvPing than it does by bluebiegroundsing it up. Raid gear gets even more upgrades. PvP gear does not.Welcome to PvP. Where the gear is always inferior, and you have to grind a new set every so often.Time to take a concrete pill, toughen up, and get to grinding more tokens.

Gungo

04-28-2010, 11:47 PM

<cite>Valindor wrote:</cite><blockquote>A brief history of PvP gear in EQ2.SF PvP: Wether it was the QQ from exiles, or the projected QQ from bluebies (lets face it, the QQ is strong in them thar bluebies. Also, there's heaps of em) PvP gear is now basically useless for raiding, with the exception of some jewelery. Also, half the effects don't work at all in PvE content. Raid gear misses out on toughness, but no one really notices because its just so much better anyways. PvP armor is exact copy+pasta of the bluebiegrounds PvP-in-a-can Armor. It also takes longer to get by actually PvPing than it does by bluebiegroundsing it up. Raid gear gets even more upgrades. PvP gear does not.Welcome to PvP. Where the gear is always inferior, and you have to grind a new set every so often.Time to take a concrete pill, toughen up, and get to grinding more tokens.</blockquote>Completely wrong....In SF pvp gear is better then ALL raid gear for PVP, PVP gear is just as good as PVE gear in PVE content up to the top tier raid PVE armour. Everything below tier 3 (and some tier 2) raid gear is crap compared to to PVP gear in pve.. Hence all your bluebies doing bluebiegrounds. No one even wears SF shard armour because PVP gear is better. No one wears heroic drops because PVP gear is better. No one wears tier 1 raid armour because pvp gear is better.

EverRude

04-29-2010, 07:25 AM

Valindor that was a nice history write up for PvP armor. But you do realize that every expansion everyone is expected to upgrade? My problem is not having my gear become last years fashion. It's having it be last season's fashion. Regearing every quarter with no tradein credit is BS. I only mentioned the raid gear to note that they are unaffected for the most part by the seasonal upgrades. Their stuff is better to start with. I don't care that it's better. Though some raid procs and adorns are over the top for pvp. But whatever. And Gungo. Really? We must be playing a different game. Noone I am grouping with is wearing BG gear except me. And the rangers I compete with in BG wearing raid gear do twice my damage.

EndevorX

04-29-2010, 02:51 PM

<cite>EverRude wrote:</cite><blockquote>And Gungo. Really? We must be playing a different game. Noone I am grouping with is wearing BG gear except me. And the rangers I compete with in BG wearing raid gear do twice my damage.</blockquote>QFE. Most raid pieces supercede PvP pieces and that's a fact.6 second delay weapons, torrent II/pestilential rain II procs, more crit bonus, more potency, on top of class-specific red adornments make for lethal combinations on raid gear.Class specific adornments should be sold as PvP adornments, they should simply cost 20 battlegrounds tokens of two types, unlike the generic ones which cost 5 battlegrounds tokens of two types.

Kota

04-29-2010, 03:05 PM

KatrinaDeath

04-29-2010, 05:43 PM

I don't think we need to be arguing what is better PvP or Raid gear. That arguement cannot be won or lost due to 24 classes in the game and each having a few (If not more) ways to "play" the class. For some it's better, for some it's worse, and for some a mix is better.I would really like to see the current BG gear to be either sold back (Even at a sub 100% return) or being able to trade up (Even with a slightly higher token cost). I worked hard for my pieces and I eventually I will be one of few who actually bought them as no one will buy the older pieces when the new ones are released.Please listen to us SOE. We worked hard testing BG's/PvP in the last few months. At least give us something to show for it.

Anizlino5

04-29-2010, 07:59 PM

As much as I feel for the people who still play BG, gear will most likely never be avail to trade in as partial payment toward the next set. The idea behind things like this is called "Time Sink" This is how SoE developers will con you in to beta testing BG long after it goes "live"I tend to agree with the person who said they should not reward armor at all. Perhaps a few very hard to earn pieces that do absolutely nothing in pve, but as it stands now all you have to do is tolerate other people long enough to collect your tokens and you recieve the free armor / weapon / jewelry / mount / etc .. of your choice.

LardLord

04-29-2010, 08:11 PM

<cite>Tenka@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>you're kidding right ? just run a few bg's with act going and tally up all the pest rain, torrent, and red adorn damage/wards/etc. i use a healthy dose of raid gear in pvp and it helps my dps quite a bit.</blockquote>Indeed, raid gear is a huge advantage in PvP for some players. I personally wish BG gear was, without a doubt, better than raid gear for battlegrounds, but I can see how some people like mixing and matching.

Sydares

04-30-2010, 09:18 PM

As with most BG-related threads, this has drifted off-topic. Is the cost for this gear excessive? No, it's not. But it's demoralizing to those of us who have only just barely finished buying the gear we wanted. Devs, you need to take a serious look at the way that tokens are distributed and the costs you're setting for items. All of the tokens are not created equal.

Allforgrog

05-01-2010, 01:05 AM

Upgrades to gear are expected when a new xpac is released and from new content, where we all then do the grind all over once againon search for better lewts. The new challenger sets come at an unexpected time and with them a feeling that time has been wasted. I simply do not see the logic behind this set up.Alowing a "trade in" set-up would;- Give the new players a feasable and earlier leg up with the lower cost of the current tier armor-Still provide a carrot on a string to the more seasoned and geared players-Not anger anyone-Fall in line with the tiered progession we are accustomed to-Make the task of gearing lower level alts in the upcoming lvl 30+ BGs an option sooner (the majority, excuse this assumption, will gear their lvl 90 mains in challenger first) and as such enrich the lower level BG with more level equipment.Not doing so will:-Anger veteran BG players-not make any sense, same instances-same enemy-same level-better reward for slightly more effort if starting from scratch but double+ the overall effort if already attained the current set? srsly?

EndevorX

05-04-2010, 08:45 PM

<cite>Allforgrog wrote:</cite><blockquote>Upgrades to gear are expected when a new xpac is released and from new content, where we all then do the grind all over once againon search for better lewts. The new challenger sets come at an unexpected time and with them a feeling that time has been wasted. I simply do not see the logic behind this set up.Alowing a "trade in" set-up would;- Give the new players a feasable and earlier leg up with the lower cost of the current tier armor-Still provide a carrot on a string to the more seasoned and geared players-Not anger anyone-Fall in line with the tiered progession we are accustomed to-Make the task of gearing lower level alts in the upcoming lvl 30+ BGs an option sooner (the majority, excuse this assumption, will gear their lvl 90 mains in challenger first) and as such enrich the lower level BG with more level equipment.Not doing so will:-Anger veteran BG players-not make any sense, same instances-same enemy-same level-better reward for slightly more effort if starting from scratch but double+ the overall effort if already attained the current set? srsly?</blockquote>QFE. I cant conceive of how developers can ever think of agreeing with the following (highlighted in red)...<div><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote>The Merchant of Discord vendor have been modified to provide you with the vintage wares of previous seasons and expansions and new merchants have been added to provide you with season 1 toughness armor. There will not be an upgrade system. These are new items and cater to those active players that have already gained a full set of gear and are eagerly waiting for more wares. Players that have a difficult time getting one item will be happy to know the current season wares are a bit more affordable. Olihin</blockquote></div>

LardLord

05-04-2010, 09:29 PM

I hadn't seen that...that's kinda funny actually <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />They must think they're doing casual players or new players a favor with the current setup on test, and the only reason any of us is complaining is because we're selfish power gamers who want to crush the poor innocent n00bs more easily.Unfortunately, the current setup is really just messing up any sense of progression to the BG gear, which is a terrible thing to do in a game that the majority of people play because they can progress and improve their character.This is what is really happening right now:A few of my guildies recently got into BGs. We've been running guild groups for battlegrounds more recently, and so they figured they'd try them out, and they ended up having a blast. Anyway! They're just hoarding tokens right now...I think one guy bought a chest and legs for his Berserker, but none of the other players who recently got into BGs has purchased anything at all. They're all waiting for the new blue slot gear. Once it is finally released, they'll have enough tokens to buy several pieces, if not their entire set, on the day of release. So much for a smooth progression, huh? It actually gets even worse, since by the time the season two gear is released, they'll be veterans like the people posting in this thread, and it will feel like the tokens they spent on their season one gear was wasted. Assuming Olihin was the one who came up with the PvP sets in TSO, I understand that he has no sense of what it means to have progression in this game. Hell, I'm not too big on progression either, personally...but one of the more experienced devs who understands how important progression is to a large percentage of this game's playerbase should probably step in and fix this.

EndevorX

05-04-2010, 10:14 PM

Bottom line is if you buy battlegrounds armor NOW, you are WASTING YOUR TIME and are purchasing an inferior piece that WONT BE COMPENSATED when the blue adornment alternative is released...unless this is changed.This needs to not happen as is, because the above philosophy DOES NOT REWARD veterancy, it punishes it.

KatrinaDeath

05-04-2010, 10:23 PM

I've decided to start raiding to get gear for PvP/BG since it's clearly better.C- for effort Sony for making PvP/BG gear the best gear for PvP/BG.

Aerinn

05-04-2010, 11:24 PM

So, if BG PvP is so much about the gear, when does skill come into it, again?If it's truly about the skills, then give everyone the same gear when they enter BG....or let people get different gear in brackets....or better yet, give people standard options to pick and choose from a couple of gear options for each piece when they enter.In other words, PvP is either about the gear, or the skill, and this thread makes me think it must be about the gear.

Jabberwock

05-07-2010, 01:28 AM

I emphatically agree with the OP. Maybe it's me, but it seems like there is a pattern of completely disregarding players' time and energy invested into game and gear. Kind of like the additional AA for raid mobs... I maxed out on aa weeks ago, now the slackers get rewarded and I get nothing.I agree with whoever said they punish veterancy. One last thing, I think it is completely inexcusable that not only is there not a BG scout bandolier (or a PVE one for that matter), but they did not add one either. Do they not know that rogue's ranged CA's REQUIRE a bandolier?! I'd REALLY like to hear the reasoning behind this.Edit: Aerinn, gear is about rewarding the advanced player, leveling the playing field among the more advanced players, and with the blue adorns enabling tailoring to play styles/philosophies... just like with PVE. Gear makes a difference, but it obviously is not EVEYTHING.

Uinael_Guk

05-15-2010, 04:06 AM

Couple things annoying about this..1. There are still only three maps, one offering a different coin type so you're forced to run all, even if you don't like a specific one.2. Related to #1, smugglers still takes twice as long for a much more random shot at the same token reward. Ganak is still also filled with plenty of flaws making that frustrating to deal with at times.3. The prices are crazy. Do they really think i'm going to spend 50/50 on a BP when I can spend 55/55 on a blue slot BP? Why even have the 50/50 in game? And if you do lower the price of the first BP, are you going to credit those who already bought them?

Anestacia

05-15-2010, 11:08 PM

A trade in system is the best way to keep the least amount of friction. Upgrading armor every expansion (aka every year) is expected. Upgrading every few months is silly and will just drive more people away in teh long run.

Uinael_Guk

05-16-2010, 12:27 PM

Giving us more tokens per match, 2-3 tokens for completing the daily quests, and maybe a DD / Dominance type of quest. One where maybe you have to win all 3 maps like 2-3x, and kill 150 people in each to earn 10 tokens of your choice.With sets per tier you can spend for your alts, new upgrades, adornments, etc, giving us more ways to earn tokens could go a long way in solving this issue imo.

Gisallo

05-17-2010, 07:29 PM

<cite>EverRude wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think they did this to keep people motivated to continue to play BG for better gear.</blockquote>See this is what I will never understand. If you add a feature to a game it should be because people actually want to do it. SOE though is doing everything they can to get people to do it. How many people on the PvE servers do you think would keep doing the zones if all of the sudden the gear went grey and every blue disappeared when not in a BG zone? Yes for raiders there is better gear and there is the occassional better fabled drop in a zone, but tell me something you can get guarenteed with a few hours of play that gives 10 crit bonus and a 1000 point procing ward? Some would still do them, but I bet the number of non PvP server players would be cut by at least half.I know they were doing everything they could to keep PvPers in the game, their population was dwindling, it sucked for them. BG, while pretty basic tactics wise created a venue to bring PvEers into the fold so some PvPers on the fence would stay. The gear though was created to bring them in because to be honest if PvEers REALLY wanted to PvP, they would have rolled on a PvP server. My concern is this though. If they keep making the PvE gear easier to get (just buy it with marks) or make it better etc. then in order to make the PvP gear desireable to those who are doing it just for gear, they will have to continually upgrade it to keep pace. Their method here is inherently flawed because they say they want to stop mudflation, introduced the PvP content, but then made that content DEPENDANT on mudflation. These actions seem more actions of management in a final act of desperation, not management using sound logic.

Gisallo

05-17-2010, 07:36 PM

<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Valindor wrote:</cite><blockquote>A brief history of PvP gear in EQ2.SF PvP: Wether it was the QQ from exiles, or the projected QQ from bluebies (lets face it, the QQ is strong in them thar bluebies. Also, there's heaps of em) PvP gear is now basically useless for raiding, with the exception of some jewelery. Also, half the effects don't work at all in PvE content. Raid gear misses out on toughness, but no one really notices because its just so much better anyways. PvP armor is exact copy+pasta of the bluebiegrounds PvP-in-a-can Armor. It also takes longer to get by actually PvPing than it does by bluebiegroundsing it up. Raid gear gets even more upgrades. PvP gear does not.Welcome to PvP. Where the gear is always inferior, and you have to grind a new set every so often.Time to take a concrete pill, toughen up, and get to grinding more tokens.</blockquote>Completely wrong....In SF pvp gear is better then ALL raid gear for PVP, PVP gear is just as good as PVE gear in PVE content up to the top tier raid PVE armour. Everything below tier 3 (and some tier 2) raid gear is crap compared to to PVP gear in pve.. Hence all your bluebies doing bluebiegrounds. No one even wears SF shard armour because PVP gear is better. No one wears heroic drops because PVP gear is better. No one wears tier 1 raid armour because pvp gear is better. </blockquote>Umm, hmmm. We almost killed a mage who had that attitude. Why? Because PvP gear has NO CRIT MIT. No crit mit means you freaking die on anything but the easiest raid mobs and I would rather have a raid force (just using easy numbers) putting up 75k consistently because people keep standing, than one that occassionally spikes to 100k but dies all the time. Raid gear also tends to have better delays on weapons and procs that are great in PvP but lacking. I think its really a wash as to what is better in PvP. Raid gear >/= BGgear > most PvE instance gear is how I think it looks. For heroic stuff you are right though and I think thats why they went that way. They know 85% of the people that play don't regularly raid, if at all. For them the PvP gear is better than much of the instance gear. Then again, if this wasn't the case, there really wouldn't be as many people in BG either. So you either have the gear, or wait 10 minutes for a Ganak to qeue and an hour for a Smugglers to qeue. There is a third option, do away with BG, which wouldn't bother me one bit, but I know a few people on Nagafen that would be PO'd by that.

MurFalad

06-02-2010, 08:10 AM

<cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote>gear should not be a reward in the bgs period.Gear creates an insurmontable wall between new players and vets. It would be one thing if soe allowed for the rating of players and the sorting of games based on newbee/vet status, but with the random matchmaker all the gear does is grant vets an advantage that cannot be overcome by any new player. A new player is thus doomed to countless hours of death grinding before they can achieve a remotely even playing field. Sure vets should have an advantage from being vets, but the wall soe has created here is way too high. If it was up to me I would just make plat, aa and exp as the reward in the bgs.</blockquote>Completely agree, this game design encourages people to AFK to progress, since until you get the PVP gear many classes are little better then AFK to their team in a BG despite best their efforts. Its no fun joining a side knowing you are letting them down by just turning up on their side, that's really bad game design.