1st Campaign and I have nothing to show for it.

[Runelaron]

<p>I am not asking you to hand us this 1st campaign armor or Challenged armor, but I am asking if you guys can give us a way to upgrade so it does not feel like im starting from nothing.</p><p>Like the T1, 2, 3, ext.. TSO and SF gear.</p><p>I would like you to consider this option, because as of now it feels like im starting from scratch and having to re-grind the same 3 BG's for another 1000+ tokens.</p><p>Thanks.</p><p>PS. you might say, well I have my current BG to help me win them faster.. I doubt that will average out. </p>

[EndevorX]

<p><cite>Runelaron wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I am not asking you to hand us this 1st campaign armor or Challenged armor, but I am asking if you guys can give us a way to upgrade so it does not feel like im starting from scratch.</p><p>Like the t1 2 3, ext TSO and SF gear.</p><p>I would like you to consider this option because as of now it feels like im starting from scratch and having to re-grind the same 3 BG's for another 1000+ tokens.</p><p>Thanks.</p><p>PS. you might say well I have my current BG to help me win them faster.. I doubt that will average out. </p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Your currrent battlegrounds gear WON'T help you gear out faster because you'll be going against people who are already fully equipped as well.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">The bottom line is that Nagafenians and Voxians who stay locked in the 80-89 bracket to abuse their TSO PvP armor are getting ahead of players who bit the bullet and established veterancy in the level 90 bracket.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Fundamentally, it's wrong to punish veterans for making the commitment and exposing themselves at a tier where the competition is a lot more well rounded.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">The way veterans are being punished is in how players who are stacking tokens in the 80-89 bracket will be able to hit 90 and have a full set of blue adornment PvP gear on the DAY it goes live, WITHOUT HAVING TO WASTE 510 TOKENS (AKA 56.6 hrs, assuming: an equal win to loss ratio, gears/ganak rounds of 10 minutes, and smugglers rounds of 20 minutes).</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Blue adornment "challenger" battlegrounds/PvP gear simply needs to cost the original battlegrounds piece, plus 5, 10, or 25 of two token types.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">(P.S. Say the average battlegrounds user plays 2 hrs 45 m of ONLY battlegrounds a day, 5 days a week, that's 4 weeks BEHIND their competitors that level 90 veterans will be when it comes to 80-89 players who have HUNDREDS of tokens ready to spend. And no, that isn't counting all the other PvE time players will likely be logging, on top of all the hours and days battlegrounds tend to be down.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Veteran's DO NOT DESERVE this negative type of treatment which celebrates slanted standards stacked in the favor of ONLY Nagafen and Vox [i.e. they are the only players in the 80-89 bracket that have had access to TSO, T4 raid-quality gear...with SUBSTANTIAL amounts of toughness].)</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">(P.P.S. The PvP/battlegrounds legplates need Torrent I/II or Pestilential Rain I/II and the regenerating Ancient Invigoration I/II like the PvE raiders get.)</span></p>

[overmonk2]

<p><cite>Seliri@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Blue adornment "challenger" battlegrounds/PvP gear simply needs to cost the original battlegrounds piece, plus 5, 10, or 25 of two token types.</span></p></blockquote><p>+1</p>

[Runelaron]

<p><cite>overmonk2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Seliri@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Blue adornment "challenger" battlegrounds/PvP gear simply needs to cost the original battlegrounds piece, plus 5, 10, or 25 of two token types.</span></p></blockquote><p>+1</p></blockquote><p>Second that opinion. Campaigns need to have both options, I do understand in the future being able to skip the older unplayed maps, but for the seasoned people to have no advantage, well I see that as a problem.</p><p>Due to the fact that there will probably always be more seasoned people than newcommers in the future BG Maps.</p>

[Runelaron]

<p><cite>Seliri@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Runelaron wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I am not asking you to hand us this 1st campaign armor or Challenged armor, but I am asking if you guys can give us a way to upgrade so it does not feel like im starting from scratch.</p><p>Like the t1 2 3, ext TSO and SF gear.</p><p>I would like you to consider this option because as of now it feels like im starting from scratch and having to re-grind the same 3 BG's for another 1000+ tokens.</p><p>Thanks.</p><p>PS. you might say well I have my current BG to help me win them faster.. I doubt that will average out. </p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;"></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">The bottom line is that Nagafenians and Voxians who stay locked in the 80-89 bracket to abuse their TSO PvP armor are getting ahead of players who bit the bullet and established veterancy in the level 90 bracket.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Fundamentally, it's wrong to punish veterans for making the commitment and exposing themselves at a tier where the competition is a lot more well rounded.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">The way veterans are being punished is in how players who are stacking tokens in the 80-89 bracket will be able to hit 90 and have a full set of blue adornment PvP gear on the DAY it goes live, WITHOUT HAVING TO WASTE 510 TOKENS (AKA 56.6 hrs, assuming: an equal win to loss ratio, gears/ganak rounds of 10 minutes, and smugglers rounds of 20 minutes).</span></p></blockquote><p>I would actually save me time to create a new character and level lock at 89 than use my current character in T9 Bg's</p><p>You can also create other coin sinks with Potions, House items, and Appearance gear.</p>

[EndevorX]

<p><cite>EverRude wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The new BG armor costs the same as the old armor. Why would anyone now buy brutallic if challenger costs the same and is better? Appearance? I think the brutallic should be required to buy the challenger. Simular to the T1 to T3 upgardes. But since the stats are only slightly better on the chalenger set, except for the blue adorn, the price should be low. Example: Brutallic shoulders cost 40 gears and 40 wheels. Challenger shoulders cost Brutallic shoulders 15 gears and 15 wheels. This way you don't hose players you already bought the now inferior brutallic set and you instead reward them for playing through the bugs. It would also feel like progression rather than feeling like you wasted a lot of tokens. [Edit] I know I have the real costs wrong but I don't have access to game to make it accurate. It's just an example.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Hopefully our feedback is listened to, and if it will be dismissed, then please explain why.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Just consolidating this <a href="list.m?topic_id=477390">BG Armor Upgrade Path</a> post.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;"></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">It easily seems to be a consensus that this is an oversight that need be addressed.</span></p>

[Kota]

wow. i'm not sure i can go through with farming a whole new set of armor. they should fix this.

[Kota]

and isn't it the exact same armor, but with an additional adorn slot ? /boggle

[Maikeruu]

<p>Not the exact same as they have slight upgrades across the board as well.</p><p>I am also adding my post to say please put in some kind of upgrade or exchange option if it isn't a direct replacement.</p>

[EndevorX]

<p><img src="http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/4215/spriestplate.png" /><span style="color: #ff6600;">Just posting this so those who aren't copied over to test with a 90 can see visual proof of the issue.</span></p>

[Sydares]

Couldn't agree more with you, Seliri. I've spent a lot of time grinding up my BG gear, and now it literally feels like that was time wasted.

[Gungo]

<p>I say remove the brutallic set from the merchant and just leave the challenger set as the new first campaign set.</p><p>This way the people who farmed token for the brutallic set are rewarded with the appearance and a full set of tier 9 bg for prerelease.</p>

[EndevorX]

<p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I say remove the brutallic set from the merchant and just leave the challenger set as the new first campaign set.</p><p>This way the people who farmed token for the brutallic set are rewarded with the appearance and a full set of tier 9 bg for prerelease.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Lol. It isn't a REWARD to lose 510 battlegrounds tokens,AKA 56.6hrs of playtime or the equivalent of a month lost playing ONLY battlegrounds 2hrs 45 mins a day, 5 days a week.</span></p>

[macsux]

<p>Can someone post screenshots of scout chain set?</p>

[Runelaron]

<p>I would understand if there where 3 new BG's to fight in, then it would make sense to put in different tokens and new upgraded armor. But the same maps with similar/identical gear with 1.1% more tokens required is just a downer.</p><p>Othilin can you please change this?</p>

[Sydares]

<p><cite>Snipex@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Can someone post screenshots of scout chain set?</p></blockquote><p>It's more of the same - literally identical but maybe 5% better and with a blue adorn slot.</p><p>Boots have 10% PvP crit mit on them, though.</p>

[Kota]

i adorned the whole set too. should i just save my tokens for the tier 3 pvp set ? this is really lame.

[Sydares]

<p><cite>Tenka@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>i adorned the whole set too. should i just save my tokens for the tier 3 pvp set ? this is really lame.</blockquote><p>Yeah, exactly what's annoying me, as well. Several manas down the tubes.</p>

[Kota]

i could stomach losing my adorns, but a whole new set, and all new adorns, plus blue adorns. wow. i would really like to see us getting something like half the price of the new stuff as trade in credit on our old. something. it's such a waste of time to go thru all of that to get a set of gear that gets outright replaced like 2 months later. adorns and all.

[lollipop]

<p>So basicly for helping test BG, grinding tokens over and over we get screwed......thanks</p>

[EndevorX]

<p><cite>Tenka@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>i could stomach losing my adorns, but a whole new set, and all new adorns, plus blue adorns. wow. i would really like to see us getting something like half the price of the new stuff as trade in credit on our old. something. it's such a waste of time to go thru all of that to get a set of gear that gets outright replaced like 2 months later. adorns and all.</blockquote><p><cite>lollipop wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So basicly for helping test BG, grinding tokens over and over we get screwed......thanks</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Hopefully not...they can still make adequate revisions.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">With three unique threads on this subject and 95% of people supporting that veterans do NOT lose out a months worth of battlegrounds play, I think it's fair to say that this truly is a sweeping consensus.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Blue adornment challenger gear needs to cost the old pieces + an extra, reduced sum of battlegrounds tokens.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;"></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">If this change doesn't go through, then again, as I highlighted earlier, Nagafenians/Voxians (PvPers) locked in the 80-89 bracket will hit 90 with enough tokens to get a full blue adornment set for themselves, AS WELL AS 2 other characters if they've been playing since launch.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Being biased toward PvPers over PvEers isn't what needs to happen here.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">PvPers are the only people in the 80-89 bracket who have had access to Shadow Odyssey Fabled sets with SUBSTANTIAL amounts of toughness, completely dwarfing mastercrafted foes.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">They don't deserve to keep 510 tokens over veterans at 90 who are already geared out, as they have merely been taking advantage of their unfair bonuses from being on the PvP servers.</span></p>

[Runelaron]

<p>Another idea could be remove the current set (due it there is no reason to buy it) and allow us to sell our current set back for tokens.</p>

[VegasKiki]

<p>I completely agree!  I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU ARE MAKING US REGRIND ALL OUR GEAR AGAIN.  I HAVEN'T EVEN HAD TIME TO ENJOY MY FIRST SET!  </p><p>I worked [Removed for Content] hard for my first set of BG gear.  Others should have to buy the first set in order to earn the next set!</p><p>For the love of Norrath please consider changing this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Runelaron wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Another idea could be remove the current set (due it there is no reason to buy it) and allow us to sell our current set back for tokens.</p></blockquote><p>I agree with this for a reduced return of tokens.</p>

[Sydares]

<p>+1</p>

[Avirodar]

<p>+1 for SOE providing some manner of upgrading.I do not want it to be free handouts of the new challenger armor, just some kind of discount/redemption system for having the original BG armor.</p>

[EndevorX]

<p><span style="color: #ff6600;">So is there any official word in regarding to the sentiments of these 20+ posters supporting these 3+ unique threads on the issue?</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">1.) Why do 80-89 PvPers</span><span style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; line-height: 19px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px;"><span style="color: #ff9900;">¹</span><span style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: normal; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; font-size: 12px;"> <span style="color: #ff0000;">(Nagafenians/Voxians) deserve to NOT have to waste 510 tokens on the old battlegrounds armor that will be worthless?</span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"> - Why let them directly purchase the new blue adornment sets?</span></p><p><span style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; line-height: 19px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px;"><span style="color: #ff9900;">¹</span> </span><span style="color: #ff6600;">those who take advantage of how THEY only have Fabled T4 TSO PvP gear with SUBSTANTIAL amounts of toughness</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">It can't be called a valid argument to claim buying 90 battlegrounds gear helps you gear out faster, as at that point there is also raid gear, which is better due to class-specific red adornments.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">At the level 90 bracket, you also go up against a lot more battlegrounds/raid geared level 90s with 250 AAs, unlike in the 80-89 bracket where competition, for PvPers of the type I mention, is sparse.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">2.) Is making the blue adornment gear cost the old piece plus a moderate sum of tokens an option?</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;"> - If not, how come?</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">3.) Is it an option to provide gear with a resale rate of the exact, or lessened, token value?</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;"> - If not, how come?</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Level 90 battlegrounds users dedicate a LOT of time and effort to this pastime and I, and most of us, are saying that we don't feel the month worth of playtime that it takes to get only the ARMOR is worth trivializing.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">The consensus truly seems to agree that certain tiers and servers shouldn't have imbalanced advantages (i.e. 80-89ers not wasting a month worth of playtime in battlegrounds compared to level 90 battlegrounds veterans).</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">We're simply curious...what's the position taken on all of this?</span></p>

[Jesters]

<p>+1 for old armor piece + tokens  but i think that the amount of tokens needed should stay the same, keeps the level of difficulty for the lvl 90 vets and prevents those that locked at lvl 80-89 from getting the new gear in one day, however it sets back anyone new to Bg's</p>