Anti-Monk Attitudes

[Caethre]

<p>(( <span style="color: #ff6600;">Last night, I am watching the usual LFG/LFM messages in the 80-89 world channel. Someone was looking for more DPS for ... Erudin Library. Sure, I thought, I'll go, a few easy marks. I send a tell to offer to go along. </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">I get a reply telling me "sorry, monks are too weak for this zone".</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">[Removed for Content]?? I send a tell back, asking where he has formed that opinion, and that I have run the zone many times, and that further to that, his statement that any class being 'en masse' too weak for the simplest zone in the expansion was a somewhat strange view.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">He backed up his comment with "in my experience, monks are simply too low DPS to be of use in such zones, unless extraordinarily well geared, and I will only take 'pure' DPS classes as DPS for my groups, as I don't want to be wiping over and over again". I checked his class/level. He was a 90 Inquisitor from an average guild.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">I might expect concern over DPS levels (regardless of class) for the hardest zones, but for Library? Amazing.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Of course, I joined another pickup group instead about 10 minutes later, and cleared Library and Erudin Research Halls with that group, with a few sub-90 characters, with no problems at all.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">But are such anti-monk feelings as extreme as this common in anyone elses experience?</span> ))</p>

[Ambrin]

<p>I think a lot of people have the opinion that brawlers in general are little more than [Removed for Content] who farm collectibles, or at the very least are not worth taking with you when you could get another class. It sucks that people have this attitude. The best thing you can do is start making groups for yourself to get a name out there for yourself, hopefully it is a good one.</p><p>Monks are more than capable of going along as DPS or tank for any heroic instance, you just need to show other people that.</p>

[Nulgara]

<p>yeah man, i hear you on this crap. I try not to pug at all unless I have to simply because I dont feel liek dealing with morons who think they have any clue what the brawler can and cant do. so far have tanked or dps'ed in every sf zone with my monk save vig 3 and erudin palace. and not because i cant but because guildies hate those two zones hehe.</p><p>i always find that when it gets bad liek that build your own group then fraps yourself tanking cellas and forward a you tube link to the [Removed for Content] that told you no see he can watch you not only tank it but do it with style and never even get close to having issues. hehe</p><p>for a long time brawlers were considered sub-par tanks. now we're not. jsut keep working your name around bro. it gets better. the folks on my server that know my brawler know him from guildies and friends suggesting i come along. and man its sweet sweet revenge when you join up to a group like that and rock their socks off and at the end you get tells. [Removed for Content] bro monks are awesome now ..  <em>love that.</em></p><p>but yeah man jsut do your thing. screw those morons that have close minded tank a must tank everything for me views. they dont know what they are missin.</p>

[circusgirl]

<p>Yeah, anti-monk sentiments are pretty rampant.  There is *some* basis in not wanting to take a monk along as dps, since at this point it's pretty much analogous to taking a shadowknight along for dps (they'd do decent damage, sure, but not nearly as much as a comparably geared pure dps class), but at the same time, its the library.  You could take one of each tank to the library and not bring any healers at all and probably make it through the zone.  The time you save by having a stronger dps is probably less than the time it would take you to find them.  </p><p>The best advice that can be given is to make a name for yourself.  Reputation is <em>everything</em> for a monk.  I'm just about the only person from my raidforce that joins random pugs all the time, and the main reason I do so is to make sure that my name is known as a solid tank.  Get a reputation as someone good at what you do, and you'll never lack a group again. </p>

[Aull]

<p>I know lots of groups will not run two fighters like it was back when the game was young. Even if a plate fighter is the mt for the group a brawler is a nice addition for those loose adds or aggro loss. If for some reason the plate tank dies a brawler can pick up the mob easy.</p><p>Its sad that this isn't used more in todays game.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>I once grouped with a Fury who threatened to leave my group if a plate tank wasn't tanking. I was... annoyed to say the least.</p>

[Raahl]

<p>I blame Gaige!  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  j/k</p><p>Pretty stupid for people to do things like this, but far to many are biased.  But like another person mentioned, some people see no need for another tank in a group if they are not the MT.  In their minds, if you are not a scout or mage, you aren't dps. </p><p>I wouldn't even attempt to change their minds, it's not worth your time.</p>

[Blu]

<p>With the OP's situation, I think the guy is just ignorant. I mean his reasons are just idiotic and uninformed. I'd just put him on ignore, make a note of why, and move on.</p><p>As a slightly different (but still negative) experience, I've often found that when someone asks for dps, what they often mean is a scout, also known as dps/util. It's happened more than a few times that I share my dps numbers, and then they ask what class. After that they don't talk to me and then advertise that they're looking for scout dps in ooc. They'd rather gamble on getting a scout class with lower numbers than take the sure thing.</p><p>Except ranger, all the scouts bring something to the table that either increases group dps capacity (assassin and swash hate transfer) or increases real dps (bards buffs and brig debuffs). As a monk, we bring a bare minimum of utility to increase group dps (our marginal speed buff, and maybe 5% hate transfer if the crappy AAs are taken).</p><p>If you are geared well enough and people know you dps high, then it's easier to get groups as dps, sure. But if the group leader is choosing among perfect strangers on a purely min-max basis, then I've found that those people tend not to take monks.</p>

[Zabjade]

<p><span style="color: #00cc00;">I was in a PUG for the Library but when the group broke up afterwards with the one who invited me getting in another instance group they did not wish to take me along. Normally I can sometime get in with the DCoL on Befallen but my Main contact there has been away from game due to IRL/Work Reasons.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">THEN I hear "What's with all the Brawler Drops" Whining in the level Channel. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></span></p>

[Exordus]

<p><cite>Raahl wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I blame Gaige!  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />  j/k</p></blockquote><p>Wow, that's a name I haven't seen in the monk forum for....3-4-5? years now. LOL.   Does he still play? </p>

[kodomo sunsoar]

<p>I have been feeling this last week or so.  I have been on vacation and don't usually play in prime-time, I am in Australia, and really not well geared to be a tank so try and look for groups as a non-tank role or try and get in groups looking for DPS.</p><p>I usually only group with guild but because I have been on vacation tried to get some other groups and I have no idea how many times I have needed to explain why I don't want to tank.  I am in a small family guild and we have plate tanks and i am no required to tank so I have geared for DPS,  good enough for my guild, not good enough for PUGs apparently.  It's especially hard when  I need to kill Queen in Cella to finish my enervated quest.</p><p>It's very frustrating but not a lot I can do but try and do best I can.</p>

[BChizzle]

<p><cite>kodomo sunsoar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have been feeling this last week or so.  I have been on vacation and don't usually play in prime-time, I am in Australia, and really not well geared to be a tank so try and look for groups as a non-tank role or try and get in groups looking for DPS.</p><p>I usually only group with guild but because I have been on vacation tried to get some other groups and I have no idea how many times I have needed to explain why I don't want to tank.  I am in a small family guild and we have plate tanks and i am no required to tank so I have geared for DPS,  good enough for my guild, not good enough for PUGs apparently.  It's especially hard when  I need to kill Queen in Cella to finish my enervated quest.</p><p>It's very frustrating but not a lot I can do but try and do best I can.</p></blockquote><p>You keep asking during raid times, the guilds that effectively clear Cella are raiding when you are LFG.</p>

[Elendhelie]

<p>Before I turned off 1-9 chat, everytime someone mentioned brawlers, one or two goobers would pipe up with "brawlers suck" and someone else would respond, youre just bitter... or something. lol</p><p>Ive been floundering around with this game since EOF and havent gotten past 30... O.o Monk has a lot of things I think would be cool, but I keep forgetting about them and run across anti-monk sentiments and go piddle with some other class.</p>

[Zutan]

<p>I started going to Library at 84 and had no trouble with dps.. at 85 I got the jojo claws and nearly doubled my dps.. now I'm almost to 89 and have gone another huge chunk of dps higher. I am geared from raids in Faydwer and Kunark mostly, with some few upgrades from SF so far. As I get more upgrades (at 90 mostly) I expect things will get much better.</p><p>Add to that group buff, ability to 'tank' if needed (something bad happens to main tank somehow) etc and I say monks are very useful.</p>

[Raahl]

<p><cite>Exordus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Raahl wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I blame Gaige!  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />  j/k</p></blockquote><p>Wow, that's a name I haven't seen in the monk forum for....3-4-5? years now. LOL.   Does he still play? </p></blockquote><p>Yup he's still around.  Not sure what class he's playing now.</p>

[Aule]

<p><cite>Aull wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I know lots of groups will not run two fighters like it was back when the game was young. Even if a plate fighter is the mt for the group a brawler is a nice addition for those loose adds or aggro loss. If for some reason the plate tank dies a brawler can pick up the mob easy.</p><p>Its sad that this isn't used more in todays game.</p></blockquote><p>I run double fighter groups on some regularity, but it can be hard to get people to do it.  If it's a steam roll zone like library, one of us goes left, other goes right, meet on the other side with a boatload of mobs.</p><p>If it's a harder zone like rescue or something, it's still useful to have the extra fighter.  I'm a bruiser, so with option to proc for minus threat and 40s reuse on -1 hate position, I can avoid taking aggro except for when I want it.</p>

[Froaknstein]

<p>i get this alot.... sorry we already have a tank.</p><p>at first i just thought it was just odd assumtions that brawlers can only tank (lol right) or bad past experiences with brawlers DPSing, then i started to look up the person forming the group.  a tank.....  sadly i am almost always declined when the tank makes the group lol  methinks most tanks just dont want to roll against anyone. </p><p>its a [Removed for Content] pug, my monk can out dps most "dps" classes in pugs.  i'm almost tempted to start saving ZW parses and just paste them to people shouting LFM DPS without telling them my class and see what they do:p</p>

[Shredderr]

<p>I bet u are well geared because what he said has an element of truth to it . Unless a monk is veery well geared they dont stand a chance in any group outside of being dead weight . I can  tank most zones but only after my wiz farmed the tokens to buy certain items and I ran enough BG's to get some gear . But any other tank with my gear would be running harder zones with much more ease . Its a real battle to go in and tank zones and I go in on my wiz and watch a less geared plate tank have no issues . The problem is the road getting to where one has the gear to survive may give our class a bad name .</p>

[rabid.pooh]

<p>Most tanks will be passed over when a group wants to fill a dps spot, the other tank doesn't want to fight for agro, and really a scout class is going to do better for the groups overall dps (baring the complete waste of space undergeared scout toons).</p><p>Also the monk is a skilled player class, play an SK or a Zerker and you can see that any brain dead monkey can pull out big numbers on these classes.  Because the monk is a skilled player class there's a lot of crappy monks out there ruining the rep of the class.</p>