Icy Keep: Retribution (Raid) Feedback

[Gninja]

<p>The next chapter in the story of the Icy Keep is now on the test server and we are looking for any and all feedback you can give on it!</p><p>The location to enter the keep is in Frostfang Sea by the docks near the waterfall. Speak with Snarf Frostfoot to get started!</p><p>Please keep in mind that the difficulty of this zone is intended to be in line with Lair of the Dragon Queen so feedback accordingly <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> I will be keeping an eye on this thread for any and all questions you all might have!</p><p><strong>Known issues:</strong></p><p>- Hoarfrost Pyreflyte's egg adds spawn more than one drake when triggered. They should only trigger one.</p>

[Undorett]

<p>In line with Lair of the Dragon Queen I assume to mean the normal mode of the zone.  Are there any mobs in this zone that use the Challange mode feature and if so what mobs should they be in line with?</p>

[timetravelling]

<p><cite>Undorett wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>In line with Lair of the Dragon Queen I assume to mean the normal mode of the zone.  Are there any mobs in this zone that use the Challange mode feature and if so what mobs should they be in line with?</p></blockquote><p>The final boss has a challenge mode and should be very tough!</p>

[Rocc]

<p>Would be nice to check it. Now if only my toon would transfer. It's only been a week...</p><p>Is there still a buff bot out here anywhere?</p>

[shadowscale]

<p>poor dragon...</p><p>why cant we side with it agaist the goblins? need more good dragons...</p><p>havent had the chance to actualy test the zone yet but just leaveing some feedback on a rambling opinion.</p><p>when i get a chance to test then will leave feedback on the events and quests.</p>

[Wrapye]

<p><cite>shadowscale wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>poor dragon...</p><p>why cant we side with it agaist the goblins? need more good dragons...</p></blockquote><p>Name one good dragon in Norrath.</p><p>The only dragons that don't kill characters outright are the ones who want to use them as agents, wittingly or otherwise.</p><p>They were here first.  We came later.  We are intruders to be, at best, tolerated.</p>

[Xalmat]

<p><cite>Wrapye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Name one good dragon in Norrath.</p></blockquote><p>The dragon in Vestigial Cella is a good guy. Although technically Odus isn't in <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">Kansas</span> Norrath anymore.</p>

[shadowscale]

<p><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Wrapye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Name one good dragon in Norrath.</p></blockquote><p>The dragon in Vestigial Cella is a good guy. Although technically Odus isn't in <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">Kansas</span> Norrath anymore.</p></blockquote><p>the two in DoF seem they would be a bit nicer if it wasent for the dijin master.</p><p>but yah if we are suddenly haveing good goblins then why no dragons... the one in the vastly deep zones is a good step in the right direction thogh for sure.</p><p>and heh sorry for derailing the post... but i supose it is a form of feedback...</p>

[Cloakentuna]

<p><cite>timetravelling wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Undorett wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>In line with Lair of the Dragon Queen I assume to mean the normal mode of the zone.  Are there any mobs in this zone that use the Challange mode feature and if so what mobs should they be in line with?</p></blockquote><p>The final boss has a challenge mode and should be very tough!</p></blockquote><p>As in Tox tough?</p>

[Kunaak]

<p><cite>timetravelling wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Undorett wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>In line with Lair of the Dragon Queen I assume to mean the normal mode of the zone.  Are there any mobs in this zone that use the Challange mode feature and if so what mobs should they be in line with?</p></blockquote><p>The final boss has a challenge mode and should be very tough!</p></blockquote><p>now thats what I wanted to hear! I am all for new raids, but something with a challenge please.</p>

[Gninja]

<p>There just might be a peaceful option against the dragon at the end...</p>

[SonnyA]

<p>Peace is not an option. Off with their miserable heads!!</p>

[shadowscale]

<p><cite>SonnyA wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Peace is not an option. Off with their miserable heads!!</p></blockquote><p>... why?</p><p>bleh adventuresrs cause more problems then dragons ever did...</p><p>and <span >Gninja, when you say there is a peaceful option... is that the easy/hard mode diffrence?<strong></strong></span></p>

[Gninja]

<p>Yes in the normal mode you challenge him you do not attempt to kill him.</p>

[shadowscale]

<p>whitch mode is considered part of the over all storyline?  thats the important thing here now....</p><p>just becaus we can spare the life for a normal mode if its the hard mode that is actualy what happens then dosent solve much of the issues...</p><p>and leaves it with the if you want better loot then have to kill the dragon... makeing it less of a real sort of choice for some...</p>

[EvilAstroboy]

<p>If you care about the welfare of the dragon you wont kill it, but you will get less reward. Just like in real life!</p>

[MrWolfie]

<p><cite>EvilAstroboy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you care about the welfare of the dragon you wont kill it, but you will get less reward. Just like in real life!</p></blockquote><p>ROFLMAO.</p><p>1. In real life, there are no dragons.</p><p>2. In real life, you are rewarded with prison time or even sentence of death for killing.</p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Gladiolus]

<p><cite>Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>EvilAstroboy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you care about the welfare of the dragon you wont kill it, but you will get less reward. Just like in real life!</p></blockquote><p>ROFLMAO.</p><p>1. In real life, there are no dragons.</p><p>2. In real life, you are rewarded with prison time or even sentence of death for killing.</p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>In reality, if you do less work, you receive less reward. You should also receive prison time or even a sentence of death for misconstruing an allegory.</p>

[Gninja]

<p>the normal mode is considered cannon to the story.</p>

[Arkenor]

<p>Are we talking about Vrewwx here? The dragon with more wisdom in his little claw than a dozen human quest-givers.</p><p><a href="http://www.arksark.org/blog/2639/man-s-inhumanity-to-monster/"><img src="http://www.arksark.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Everquest-2-Maltheas-is-given-food-for-thought-by-Vrewwx-the-Dragon-449x323.jpg" width="449" height="323" /></a></p><p><a href="http://www.arksark.org/blog/2639/man-s-inhumanity-to-monster/"></a></p><p>I'm glad, at least, that the canon version of the tale doesn't require us to kill him. I'd rather join his team and sign up for his newsletter, though.</p>

[Gninja]

<p>Test_copy is now unlocked</p>

[Cyliena]

<p><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Test_copy is now unlocked</p></blockquote><p>Woot! Are our characters that requested copies going to be sent over too, now, please? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Gninja]

<p>I do believe the command is working. If you are having problems look me up on the test_copy server sometime today I should be around as "Gninjadev"</p>

[Cyliena]

<p><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I do believe the command is working. If you are having problems look me up on the test_copy server sometime today I should be around as "Gninjadev"</p></blockquote><p>My two chars that were on Test Copy before are still showing offline server (locked). Also, just tried to create a char on Test Copy to see if it refreshes the list, and it's not a valid option for a server. My two pending test copy transfers are not on the char list at all.</p><p>edit: and I apologize, probably not the correct thread to be posting about this</p>

[tkia]

The fireplace exit is a lot of fun but the activation on the bellows could use a tweak. If you're in first person view or third person behind your character when you stand on the plate and face the bellows the particle effect from the fire blocks clicky access to the bellows. The only way I could manage to click it was to pan around to face my character and then zoom a fair way back so that the particles were no longer between my mouse and the bellows. Doable, but a bit fiddly. Also with those adds harder but fewer would probably be the best option. I was getting a lot of lag from them on a halfway decent system and I know a lot of people who raid on high performance anyway and could well hit slideshow mode with all that on their screens.

[Uilamin]

<p>Feedback about the armour from the zone:</p><p>The items seem to have the non-update crit mit (as seen on the original SF raid items before being put in line with TSO raid armour)</p><p>I believe that this is a mistake and was told to post here.</p>

[Traldan Omegafyre]

Didn't see any pet effects at all on mage items for the new zone. Assuming that's just unfinished items?

[Wastura]

<p>Okay, so there is a nice quest that starts in there and it eventually continues to a second quest. I notice the forge there had a mender attached and mentioned having done something first to get it unlocked. Here's what I'm seeing and if I'm wrong, might want to look at how you're implementing it.</p><p>It kind of looks like the new Ward of Elements x2 to be honest. We were two grouping with a really bad set-up and I think 2 groups could probably clear the first three named, certainly the statue one, if set up right, probably the drake too. So I see a lot of people getting gear. I am wondering if like ward it will suddenly get "hard" and the talk of hard mode version makes me hopeful. Like perhaps it works like Shard of Hate, mobs after the forge quest get a lot tougher really fast.</p><p>Definitely want to do something about the bellows. I had no problems clicking it the first time but every attempt thereafter was met with frusteration. The drake of course was a little buggy with too many adds causing lag and visibility problems more than a challenge as one rift pretty much cooked them all alive. If the intent was to have the mob tanked in the water to avoid knockback, then there was some minor frusteration in not being able to actually swim in the shallow waters.</p><p>The trash was very simple. We took far too little dps so they took awhile to actually die, but that's about it. Keep in mind that the raid was equipped in random assortments of jewelry and full sets of the gear purchasable in the zone.</p><p>That said, a full set of gear costing 120 tokens doesn't seem too bad, the decorating items (I know are going to change) but weren't anything really special. (I for some reason could see all of them correctly) I can't see myself using tokens on them before I have all the armor I want. Luckily there are a couple mounts as well costing 100 tokens so people won't feel like they're completely wasting their time. However, other than a few hardcore decorators going for the dark and light ice squares for yet another chess set, I dont' see too many decorators putting much of their tokens there either.</p><p>The trash in the named room, the drakes before the named drake, they presented absolutely no challenge and died extremely quick even for our 42k dps.</p><p>The curse on the drake was pretty brutal but nothing so bad as the similar curse that you see in Research Halls. That said, healing through the curse in research halls actually seems to be a great deal more difficult. A tank with extrodinarily high levels of mit/avoid above cap might notice a minor spike to his health, but a single spot healer could get through it.</p><p>All and all, I like seeing old zones revisited, it allows us to do stuff again without having to do the same stuff again. I ran upstairs a bit and saw the broken parapets, just as well as those always confused me in old world. I can pretty much guess where the raid outside the keep door is going and what the storyline is going to entail.</p><p>The set of three mobs in the named room gave us some trouble. The guardian tank wasn't able to hold all three and one of them kept getting pulled and facing the raid. The the guard chased the one he lost, pulling the second with him and AoE's wiped, but with a little practice I don't see that being a real challenge. I would say that encounter is about where the difficulty with the opening trash should have been.</p><p>All in all, looks like a great revamp on par with Runnyeye: The Gathering.</p>

[shadowscale]

<p><cite>Maltheas@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Are we talking about Vrewwx here? The dragon with more wisdom in his little claw than a dozen human quest-givers.</p><p><a href="http://www.arksark.org/blog/2639/man-s-inhumanity-to-monster/"></a></p><p>I'm glad, at least, that the canon version of the tale doesn't require us to kill him. I'd rather join his team and sign up for his newsletter, though.</p></blockquote><p>yep, glad to see he dosent die.</p><p>expecialy after the speach he gave last frost fell basicly makeing US the villans in this story, felt rather sorry for him actualy. just barely hatched and was already being labled the villan before he even did anything by a buch of goblens who quite honistly are below intellegence level...</p><p>and i would be a suscriber to that as well.</p>

[Vraeth]

<p>is the 5-9 days lockout timer intended?</p>

[FimisOrbe]

<p><cite>Vraeth@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>is the 5-9 days lockout timer intended?</p></blockquote><p>I really hope so. 2d20h Zones are getting dull and boring way to fast.</p>

[Gninja]

<p>Yes it is intended its a very large zone.</p>

[thog_zork]

<p>How many nameds are in it ?</p><p>How many hard mode mobs ?</p>

[Amphibia]

<p>Regarding the token merchant & house items:</p><p>(Note: This is not feedback on the zone in general, as I am not a raider. I will likely never set foot in this zone.)</p><p>So if understand this correctly, there is a merchant inside this zone which sells various gear & house items for epic E'ci tokens. These tokens can, of course, only be aquired by running the zone. The gear, I have no issues with. But why do you have to stick house items, particularly house items that you know a lot of decoraters have been asking for, on a merchant deep inside a raiding instance? I do not understand the thought behind this decision.</p><p>Raiding is a playstyle that requires time, effort and interest. Decorating is a playstyle that also requires time, effort and interest. While I'm sure there are some who do both, quite a lot of us do not. Yes, I did see that the items were tradable, but what prices do you think they will sell for on the broker? 50p pr icy tile, perhaps? By doing this, you effectively make these items unavailable to most of the playerbase. Not so cool.</p><p>It is the <em>decoraters</em> who have been asking for ice tiles for many years now. Please rethink this. These items could have been available on a faction merchant in Halas, or maybe next Frostfell, or something else.... so why did you do it this way?</p><p>EDIT: Wrote this before I saw Gninja's reply on the homeshow forums, lol.... if that makes this post unnecessary, I will remove it.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So if understand this correctly, there is a merchant inside this zone which sells various gear & house items for epic E'ci tokens. These tokens can, of course, only be aquired by running the zone. </p></blockquote><p>Gninja already posted in a way that alludes to that whole system not being finished yet.</p>

[MrWolfie]

<p><cite>Gladiolus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>In reality, if you do less work, you receive less reward. You should also receive prison time or even a sentence of death for misconstruing an allegory.</p></blockquote><p>LOL. What planet do you live on? Cos it's not the same one I inhabit.</p><p>However, I am somewhat concerned that you must suffer for your crimes, since you clearly don't understand the difference between symbolism and reality either.</p>

[EvilAstroboy]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So if understand this correctly, there is a merchant inside this zone which sells various gear & house items for epic E'ci tokens. These tokens can, of course, only be aquired by running the zone. </p></blockquote><p>Gninja already posted in a way that alludes to that whole system not being finished yet.</p></blockquote><p>Which is good, because the items are pretty much unusable by anyone at level 90. You can get better gear for raiding from battlegrounds and heroic tokens.</p><p>Lets be honest here, unless there is 13% crit bonus on the chest and legs, and 12% potency on the shoulders, they wont be used for anything aside from appearance. Not even by newbie raiders.</p>

[Gninja]

<p>The raid zone will not be the only way to get these house items they are only there for after folks have gotten the gear they want(if its an upgrade or for appearance ethier way) so those raiders that do enjoy house items have something else to spend tokens on.</p>

[BleemTeam]

<p>If the Easy Mode is cannon, then the only reason to kill the hard mode is for loot. What is the equivalent loot from the hard mode? In case it isn't complete yet, what can we expect in terms of comparison?</p>

[Oakum]

<p><cite>Brailyn@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If the Easy Mode is cannon, then the only reason to kill the hard mode is for loot. What is the equivalent loot from the hard mode? In case it isn't complete yet, what can we expect in terms of comparison?</p></blockquote><p>Maybe do the hardmode for a challenge? Sorry, forgot that was only for people who played for fun and not loot to say they are leet and better then everyone else, lol.</p><p>Relax, just having a little fun poking holes in peoples egos.  Harder mobs should have better loot. Not god like but better.  </p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Oakum wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Brailyn@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If the Easy Mode is cannon, then the only reason to kill the hard mode is for loot. What is the equivalent loot from the hard mode? In case it isn't complete yet, what can we expect in terms of comparison?</p></blockquote><p>Maybe do the hardmode for a challenge? Sorry, forgot that was only for people who played for fun and not loot to say they are leet and better then everyone else, lol.</p><p>Relax, just having a little fun poking holes in peoples egos.  Harder mobs should have better loot. Not god like but better.  </p></blockquote><p>Most hard mode mobs are not fun in any way. IE. Energized Sages, Twins United(Less so IMO), there are some exceptions though.</p>

[Jesdyr]

<p><cite>Oakum wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> Harder mobs should have better loot. Not god like but better.  </p></blockquote><p>The problem with this Xpac is, most of the time better is .1% better <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Lizzoraus]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Oakum wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Brailyn@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If the Easy Mode is cannon, then the only reason to kill the hard mode is for loot. What is the equivalent loot from the hard mode? In case it isn't complete yet, what can we expect in terms of comparison?</p></blockquote><p>Maybe do the hardmode for a challenge? Sorry, forgot that was only for people who played for fun and not loot to say they are leet and better then everyone else, lol.</p><p>Relax, just having a little fun poking holes in peoples egos.  Harder mobs should have better loot. Not god like but better.  </p></blockquote><p>Most hard mode mobs are not fun in any way. IE. Energized Sages, Twins United(Less so IMO), there are some exceptions though.</p></blockquote><p>Wansu > Perah`Celis</p>

[Deadeyes]

<p>wait... so they just copied from WORLD OF WARCRAFT ICE CROWN CITADEL INSTANCE: HALLS OF REFLECTION, where you run away from the last boss?</p>

[shadowscale]

<p>some comments about the armor avalable on the vendor...</p><p>there are two sets of mage armor... but there appears to be a lack of summoner gear... makes it hard for me to be interested in this zone if nothing is an upgrade...</p>

[Gninja]

<p>There should be Pure caster and Summoner gear. Are you only seeing one set of armor?</p>

[Corydonn]

<p>Are there any scheduled Pick up raids for this zone sponsered by the Dev team or do any guild raids happen to need a mediocre 90 Bruiser to tag along for testing?</p>

[Mythal_EQ2]

<p>Talking about the armor sets available from the vendor...</p><p>Ae they finalized? Because, at least the two mage sets that I saw, are significantly under par when compared to any of the other armors dropped in T9. If these are the choices we get for loot (I'm assuming they will be, considering they use the pattern/token mechanic), I honestly do not see this zone being run more than once by anyone -- even people who cannot kill any hard-mode encounters in the other zones.</p><p>If, as you say, the zone itself is large, then the non-armor loot from the easy-mode encounters had better be fricking amazing to make it worthwhile, because the armors certainly are not -- and do not even have an amazing look to them, so I can't see them being there just for appearance.</p><p>D.</p>

[shadowscale]

<p><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There should be Pure caster and Summoner gear. Are you only seeing one set of armor?</p></blockquote><p>am seeing two diffrent sets, but neather one has pet focus last i looked.</p>

[Cablejunky]

<p>Please consider upping the resources for the zone. Dracos Argent went in last night to test the zone with 3 groups and the zone would lag us out of the client to character select, or crash after killing a mob. It is unplayable at the moment.</p>

[Gninja]

<p>It was only happening when killing a mob?</p>

[Remora]

<p>Hard to say that it was linked to killing mobs.  We would ge about 2 encounters of trash dead, and be working on the 3rd when it would lag the entire raid out (and kick us to character select) and roll the zone back a couple min.  If I had thought about it last night, I should have grabbed a watch to see if it occured after the same amount of time in zone.  I dont know if its possible to look at the logs, but we were there somewhere around 8:30ish est last night (May 3)</p><p>Also, the raid wide <strong>zone out</strong> is really annoying =P</p>

[Gninja]

<p>lol oops will fix the zone out <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Gninja]

<p>The crash bug should have been fixed with the push to test last night. Let us know if you still see it happening.</p>

[Remora]

<p>Crashing is def not fixed....we are on test trying it right now</p>

[Cablejunky]

<p>Still Crashes/Lags out and is unplayable.</p>

[Remora]

<p>We cant even kill 1 mob out of a group encounter before it crashes and rolls back.  Maybe some kind of database error?</p>

[Remora]

<p>Whatever the problem is, it is happening in The Hole raid zone also</p>

[Gninja]

<p>Aye, looking into it <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Apake]

<p>it's definately some type of buff stacking and/or ability some class is using at the moment causing a zone crash</p><p>we went out as a raid into sundered frontier, and some adds agroed us, and we crashed the overland zone when we started fighting it</p><p>some type of proc/buff/ability</p><p>on 5/4/10:</p><p>we crashed:</p><p>Icy Keep: Retribution at about 5:02 pst</p><p>Underfoot Depths at about 5:18 pst</p><p>Underfoot Depths at about 5:26 pst</p><p>Sundered Frontier at about 5:32 pst</p><p>Groups were usually:</p><p>1 - Onraxxxxxx, Omnizx, Deblinxxx, Bito, Genjii, Remoraxx</p><p>2 - Potayto, Wolframhartxx, Widjetx, Ainya, Chelsyxxxxx</p><p>3 - Builtx, Alvarez, Irthosx, Baiynexx, Grump</p><p>4 - Nukeitdeadx, Sacdaddyx, Elphxx, Spahnlie, Innoviaxx</p><p>it changed around through the night, but some combo of something there was causing a zone crashed, and it definately was not fixed in the patch yesterday</p>

[Gninja]

<p>Are we still seeing the crashes or has it been resolved?</p>

[Remora]

<p>Kinda hard to tell since the server is set to PVP and we cant form a raid to test it</p>

[Gninja]

<p>Post a time and date you plan to be online and formed up ready to raid (aside from those who cannot join the raid) and I can set faction for people to join the same raid.</p>

[Apake]

<p>no crashes tonight like last time</p><p>we did have people get kicked offline while fighting corroval and someone zoned in</p><p>and the yeti dude was buggin out when someone wasnt with us, going into an unattackable state, yet no way for us to die or wipe it</p>

[Rocc]

<p>Please scedule dates and time for us Gninja. Your team did that with Miriguals Planar Shard and it worked very well. Enticing players out of their holes for the title's made sure raid times were successful and testing data and imput came in mass quantity. Please consider doing this on test and testcopy so we can get into that zone. Theres typically 7-15 people on testcopy and only half of them are level 90.</p><p>On these scheduled dates can you set testcopy back to pve please?</p>

[Gninja]

<p><cite>Built@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>no crashes tonight like last time</p><p>we did have people get kicked offline while fighting corroval and someone zoned in</p><p>and the yeti dude was buggin out when someone wasnt with us, going into an unattackable state, yet no way for us to die or wipe it</p></blockquote><p>Which Yeti dude? Tamer Nicoli? How far through the zone did you guys get?</p>

[SacDaddy420]

<p>yes Tamer Nicoli</p><p>thank you for making my dream possible of being a bowling pin.</p>

[Gninja]

<p>Heh did you like that? :p</p><p>I think I found the issue with Tamer and will see if I can get a fix in soon for it. Otherwise you guys can skip him he is not required for progression.</p>

[taybrienyoyo]

<p>Took 2 groups into here tonight 5/14 on Test server after the tells you sent me =)</p><p>-Zone layout is neat and busy.  Alot going on and interesting storyline thus far.</p><p>-Trash mobs seemed easy enough, but like all things nowadays, a ton of hp.  Trash seemed to average between 10-12 million hp per mob.  With a 2group raid wide of only 60K, fights where taking a little while, but I guess thats to be expected.</p><p>-The forge clickie does need to be adjusted like stated before.  Its hard to click it once on top of the blower.</p><p>-Hoarfrost Pyreflyt encounter was interesting.  The egg hatches only spawned one at a time which was good.  those adds had a ton of HP for only being heroic.  But we noticed through logs and ACT that he kept randomly doing 50k+ non crit focus damage with his Pyreskin.  He insta killed 2 of us shortly after the kill, then a minute and twelve seconds later, insta gibed our tank with a double focus damage hit of 20K and 50K damage.  We had this problem before back in necrotic asylum when the last guy was buggy.  I am curious if that in intended, or we just arent used to it, not being fluent raiders.  The curse at 90% was unexpected, but we didnt have enough time to do any more pulls after our couple attempts since some had to log.</p><p>-We scored a master off the trash which was a nice upgrade for us undergeared test players.  I hope master trash drops continue ala SOH zone.</p><p>Looking forward to going back in soon =)</p>

[Remora]

<p>5/17:</p><p>I dunno if it is because we are still using an older zone, but the doors leading into the room that had the teleporter and the two named you had to split is locked and people cannot open the doors (use on the door is greyed out and it says there is an enchantment on the door).  Luckily we had people still down at the trainer to call to. </p>

[Gninja]

<p>Which door? the door inside the room or the door before the room? Can you provide a loc?</p>

[Remora]

<p>ill post it sometime tonight</p>

[Remora]

<p>just curious, but how many names are there that need to be killed for progression and how many are optional?</p>

[Remora]

<p>got a couple people randomly kicked (Ainya, Chelsyx, and Baiynexx) at 9:20 est in Odaufe's room while killing trash.</p>

[Apake]

<p>it was the doors after the 2nd chick...the statue lady</p><p>says some enchantment on it, and we got lucky we had people logged out down at the tamer to call to....but no way to get back in the doors after we came back</p>

[Remora]

<p>LOL dancing on your corpse is a nice touch</p>

[Remora]

<p>Odaufe & Kastus are amazing....great fight</p>

[Apake]

<p>hahahaha omg that odaufe and kastus fight is amazing...very good job on that one guys</p><p>nice to see you trying to make fights a little bit more fun instead of the stupid curefests that are more annoying than fun....</p><p>up the difficulty of stuff without upping the annoyance factor, good job on this one</p>

[Apake]

<p>the front door still says barricaded from the inside, when you are inside trying to open it....and you can clearly see that isn't barricaded =P lol</p>

[Remora]

<p>Location of the door we cant open is 335.41, -16.00, -388.25</p>

[Apake]

<p>not letting the front door open after killin that lady sucks....</p><p>oh and having to run the zone twice to be able to get to the last boss is pretty stupid, if thats the plan</p><p>or need to up the drop rate on furs if that isnt the plan, cause we're all at 10/20</p><p>or lower the required amount to 10</p>

[Remora]

<p>Is it a bug that you cant get enough yeti pelts or whatever one time through?  We only got 10 and see no more mobs</p>

[Gninja]

<p>It is intended for you not to be able to collect enough pelts the first time through but second time should give you enough.There are also a few dropped quests in the zone that require a couple runs to complete. This allowed us to put slightly better rewards on the quests since you need to run the zone multiple times to get the rewards. The final quest to challenge the dragon rewards the Breastplate Pattern.</p><p>It sounds to me like that door is bugged I will look into it.</p><p>First time you go through all named aside from Tamer Nicoli and Statue of the Snowbeast are required. Second time through once you have the Glacial Sledge you can skip the first two named as well. All of the named you can skip should have some extra rewards/reasons to kill them.</p>

[Gninja]

<p>Door fixed with next build.</p>

[Remora]

<p>First off, I love the new direction that boss encounters have taken to make them challenging.  As a healer, I hated TSO with regards to all the curing.  My two favorite fights in the zone were the Yeti Trainer and the two ice golem brothers near the end.  I like that the challenge of these fights is not placed solely on the healers, but engages the entire raid force to make the fight successful.</p><p>Now to my pet peev of the zone, not to be able to fight the final mob first time through.  I can understand making some of the quests require multiple runs so you can offer better rewards, but in my opinion you should be able to access the final mob first time through regardless of being able to finish every quest.  Atleast from my viewpoint (and I do realize the zone was not aimed at top tier raid guilds), the reason for running the zone is for the challenge of tackling new content and the one or two items that may be good from some of the final mobs (compared to what we can already obtain from hardmode mobs).  In my opinion requiring a guild to run the zone 2x just to fight the final mob seems like an annoying speed bump that just impeeds progression through the zone.  If the problem is an amazing reward if linked to the yeti glove quest (which as far as we can tell is what is needed to access the last mob), maybe that reward should be shifted to a different quest.</p><p>Again, I really did enjoy the zone.  Please keep up the good work</p>

[Lader]

<p>the idea of not being able to try the entire zone on the first time in the zone is on par with the idea of not putting any resists on gear during TSF launch...(i.e., one of the worst ideas ever implemented.)</p><p>being able to kill/clear on the first run through is one thing...not even being able to try is just inane. Im not sure why anyone would think this is what players want. I get that in order for the quest rewards to be good you have to have some negative, but locking players out of content isnt the way to do it.</p>

[Gninja]

<p>How is this different than say for example Lair of the Dragon Queen? You have to kill Herald to get the item needed to kill Toxxulia so you had to do the normal mode (not fight the dragon) till you spent one run of the zone killing normal mode.</p>

[Remora]

<p>I never saw the reasoning behind that either.  Especially since the teleporting aspect of the fight isnt what truely makes it challenging.  Also, Dragons Lair is a 10 minute zone which is significantly shorter than icy keep.</p>

[Gaige]

<p>I don't see the issue.</p>

[Gninja]

<p>I tried to set the zone up where the Ice Maiden boss would feel like the final boss. You are also not left with anything on track or any sign that you need to do anything else on the first run except for the quest not being completed.</p><p>I was hoping for it to be more of a reward for clearing through a second time to add to the replayability so you would see something new going through a second time.</p><p>Also I doubt very many guilds are going to be able to clear the zone on first attempt anyway its 9 encounters to figure out. Expecially the type of raid groups this zone is aimed at.</p>

[Apake]

<p>well it is the same concept, yes....the difference is, spending 1-2 full nights on it and getting to the end and not being able to go on (toxxulia was a choice for the encounter, not an entire missing fight)</p><p>and there were 3 mobs in toxx's lair, not the biggest zone we're going through, to get to the end and not get the boss</p><p>and its a 3 day lockout instead of 5 days</p><p>i guess the biggest difference is, the first time we went into tox...we chose to do easy mode, and we got to do the fight for that choice......in here, you dont choose anything, you just cant get to the last boss in the zone, and dont get to face the encounter in any way</p>

[Gninja]

<p>Alright, The quest should now only require 10 instead of 20. Keep in mind the updates are random so it is possible to not finish the quest first time through and I did not change the drop rate. But for the majority of the times people should get enough unless they are just very unlucky.</p>

[Daine]

<p><cite>Remora@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>First off, I love the new direction that boss encounters have taken to make them challenging.  As a healer, I hated TSO with regards to all the curing.  My two favorite fights in the zone were the Yeti Trainer and the two ice golem brothers near the end.  I like that the challenge of these fights is not placed solely on the healers, but engages the entire raid force to make the fight successful.</p></blockquote><p>I haven't run the zone yet but the curing and pressure on me as a healer was what caused me to stop raiding mid TSO.  I came back to the game not long before SF and leveled an illusionist (which has their own issues, but this isn't the place).  From all the feedback on this zone, it seems like it was very well done.  Engaging everyone with minimal fail conditions sounds like perfect raid design.  I've heard complaints that the loot isn't up to snuff, which is sad--this sounds like a fun zone.  If the loot isn't decent though, it will be hard to convince my guild to raid it much.  Hope it turns out ok <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>foozlesprite wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Engaging everyone with minimal fail conditions sounds like perfect raid design.</p></blockquote><p>For a snore fest, tank and spank boring zone.  I just hope The Hole is a lot harder.  There is a reason why all SF content that isn't broken has died before the first GU and its because they moved away from challenging content like TSO offered, and it sucks.</p>

[Gninja]

<p>The Hole Raid zone is most definately a lot harder. Its intended to be the hardest in the game currently where as Icy Keep is more aimed at players who are just starting SF Raiding. What you might consider it a snore fest while others might enjoy it. There are actually different playstyles out there aside from yours Gaige.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There are actually different playstyles out there aside from yours Gaige.</p></blockquote><p>Fabricated rumor sir, fabricated rumor.</p><p>However yes sure fine I understand and you're probably right, easier raids gets people into raiding and the more people raid the more raid content we can have.</p><p>I get it sheesh!</p>

[Sydares]

<p>Fail conditions and heroic opportunities.</p><p>Both horrible, horrible things.</p>

[mchristie]

<p>I am a Guild Leader, we raid 3 nights a week and have a big variety of skill levels. We became x4 (instead of x2) when SF came out. I am reading what people are saying about this zone and I see over and over the same people in elite guilds complaining the content just isnt hard enough. I have been playing/raiding in this game since the start and IMO this is the best expansion yet when it comes to progression.</p><p>I do not know if this is true but on my server it was. In ROK Nexona broke up guilds. Avatars were only killed by a VERY small part of the EQ2 population. In TSO I watched guilds fall apart due to the heavy fail checks or just progress so slow they had every single item they could get before killing the next Boss.</p><p>Now I know established guilds walked into most of the beginning SF encounters and plowed thru them. However mine didnt. We were new. With people new to the game and new to raiding and the beginning encounters like Lair of the Dragon Queen we went in and died horribly. The treasured gear and low AA killed us even on TULUUN! But we hunkered down utilized the mastercrafted jewlery and placed it on every under equipped toon. Went back a week later and got our first 2 kills in SF.</p><p>Our members are now much better equipped and have some experience in raiding. SO I think it would be awesome to feel our accomplishments mean something on a few easier mobs at the beginning of a new zone.</p><p>I appluad the work done on SF progression and raids!</p><p>Saev</p><p>Guild Leader of Night Masks on Befallen</p>

[Frigid2000]

<p>I was a big fan of RoK progression. Start off with a couple of easy zones and just get progressively harder as time went on. Maybe a raid zone or two where most guilds just won't be able to get through it. I think that's perfectly fine and there's nothing wrong with that.</p>

[mchristie]

<p>Nexona was harder then most of VP, yet at beginning of zone blocking people myths. Alot of guilds outright skipped VS once they removed him from being required. So really the progression did not get harder, it actually got MUCH easier after some mobs. Doesnt make sense but SF has been done much better.</p><p>Saev</p>

[Gninja]

<p>For those of you that have been most of the way thorugh Icy Keep: Retribution, How do you feel the difficulty of the encounters go? Do they fit with the order of the encounters are some fights much harder than they are currently placed in the zone or does it feel about right? Keep in mind the difficulty shouldnt jump as drastically as the TSO raids did but it should get slightly harder the further in the zone you get.</p><p>Also I am looking for feedback on the Ice Maiden D'Ina encounter if anyone has fought her. Is she too easy? Too hard? Too annoying? Anything will help <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Arno24]

<p><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>For those of you that have been most of the way thorugh Icy Keep: Retribution, How do you feel the difficulty of the encounters go? Do they fit with the order of the encounters are some fights much harder than they are currently placed in the zone or does it feel about right? Keep in mind the difficulty shouldnt jump as drastically as the TSO raids did but it should get slightly harder the further in the zone you get.</p><p>Also I am looking for feedback on the Ice Maiden D'Ina encounter if anyone has fought her. Is she too easy? Too hard? Too annoying? Anything will help <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>I think the zones difficultly in its current state is perfect for its intended audiance, Except for the last encounter (Ice Maiden D'Ina) which was probably the easiest encounter in the zone. Probably needs adds during the scripted parts more than just 4 totems that stand there, or have the totems do something other than die.</p><p>PS: The rest of the encounters in the zone were AMAZING, some of the best encounter Ive ever seen in game. Although obviously too easy for hardcore raiders. Hopefully the hole will take care of that.</p>

[Gninja]

<p>Yeah I think the totems dont have enough hit points or something they spawn into X3 adds if not killed. I will rework them a bit if its not too  late for the cutoff.</p>

[Gungo]

<p>Add alot more hitpoints to the totems and maybe add a damage shield to them.ORYou could make each totem class based (fighters, scouts, casters, healers)</p>

[Remora]

<p>I agree that the difficulty of the Ice Maiden needs to be increased.  Atleast from what we saw, the ice golem twins are a lot more difficult due to the numerous memwipes and the exclusivity buff they have.  Maybe increase hp on the totems and increase the difficulty of the adds that spawns when you dont kill the totem (maybe even have the difficulty of the adds be dependant on the number of totems left up).</p>

[Gninja]

<p>ok the totems should now have double the hitpoints and have a small chance to reflect. Tho I do like the idea about having specific classes only able to target one of the totems. Thats kind of cool. I might do that if this is still a bit easy. I also upped the damage capabilities of the adds and the Ice Maiden herself.</p>

[Lader]

<p>if you do that make sure you alternate how many hp's each totem has. priests arents scouts <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Gninja]

<p>Obviously the priest totem would have 3 times the health as the scouts one naturally <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Meriwyn]

<p><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Obviously the priest totem would have 3 times the health as the scouts one naturally <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Thanks! My druid/inquisitor friends who think they are dps will love this. Luckily as main tank templar I won't be dps'ing cuase the totem would probably laugh at me.</p><p>Seriously though I like this idea would mix things up for some of the healers, besides me that is... I heal tank... no matter what.</p>

[SacDaddy420]

<p>I think this zone is fun as heck as far as the scripts go.   Some of the best Ive seen.  For what it is ( an easy zone) I think its a homerun.  Havent put in any time on Vrewx yet but if his difficulty is around the same as Tox's I think that would be appropriate.</p><p>Yea the Ice Maiden was pretty cake.   Good call upping the difficulty by making Sacdaddy kill himself with Ice Comet.   That one never gets old.</p>

[Oakum]

<p>Looking forward to the zone. The tso progression (even though the guild I raid with never finished it due to player attrition) was okay to me. The SF is good too althougth the number of guilds looking for players to raid is too high compared to the the players who want/can raid which is low and we havent gotten all that far in it either. </p><p>The only thing that seems to be out of proportion in SF is the second named encounter in the X2. It seems aimed at a perfect class setup with fully avatar/sf geared players instead of the concept of an x2 is zone that legendary geared, less then perfect raid/class setup should be able to eventually do with gear dropped in it and be a way to step into X4 raiding.</p><p>Woe was a good X2. Vigilant rescue is not due to the second encounter. The groups of trash hitting like trucks can be outhealed to get to the first named and the difficulty is about right on it but players will be unable to gear up there to take the next named.</p>

[Remora]

Wait a minute......furies have heals!?!? Ours always claimed she was the new SK class.

[Apake]

<p>Well, I think there was some miscommunication between some of the people in the thread and you Gninja, cause the last fight with the harpy chick, was kind of easy last time through, but the double hp on the golem statues is way too much for the difficulty of the zone.</p><p>We do enough or more dps then the "target audience" for this encounter, and with the change, you cant get all 4 statues dead to keep in line with the encounter.....I think the other posters must have been talking about the adds hp or something, cause the actual statues hp was good for the encounter last time we ran through it, we could get each one down with 1 group on each in a reasonable amount of time without getting the big adds spawned.</p><p>I think the hp on those little statues needs to be toned down....and if you expect us to fight the adds, their dps is way too high now to be killing them all at once. For the difficulty of the zone, I'd say tone it back down, maybe keep in the reflect or something, make them class specific, but lower their HP and dmg some, between where it was and is now.</p><p>It took splitting 2 groups together on 2 statues to get 2 down...and just letting 2 spawn each time now. Last time, we were getting all 4 down just before the time ran out.</p><p>The little shard spawns come way too fast now too for the amount of hp they have.</p>

[Apake]

<p>I think a nice fix for the harpy lady at the end is like.....</p><p>reduce the shards hp by like 1/2 that she spawns from herself......the spawn rate is fine, or speed it up, so theres more stuff to handle, but dies a lot faster, they are coming very quickly now for the amount of HP they have</p><p>reduce the statues that spawn every 10% hp based on class, and make 1 attackable by each class, make them glow different colors or something, like blue = mages, green = healers, red = fighters, yellow = scouts or something.......</p><p>make the fail-mode golems that spawn have like 25% less hp, and hit 25% harder</p><p>we killed it tonight, but there is no way the target raid is going to be able to do this fight as it is right now</p>

[Remora]

<p>I think the changes to the ice maiden probably take the mob outside of your target audience.  Each of the "fail mode" ice behemoths (i think thats what they were called) did roughly 7.5kdps each, and with the amount of hp the stationary toems have, the target audience raid will get too many behemoths to make this doable.  Like Built said, our raid (we had 22 or 23 ppl i dont remember) geared off of hardmode mobs killing 2 totems easily, and 3 if we pushed it.  Since our dps is probably above the target audience for this fight, that would mean the raid would have to have roughly 22k hps on the MT just from the behemoths, ignoring the named and the other adds that spawn.</p><p>I guess what it comes down to is what your vision of this encounter was.  If you planned on not killing the totems to be a fail-like condition, I would lower the hp on the stationary totems and raise the difficulty on the behemoths (we could heal through 3 of them and probably could have doen 4).  If your plan is for the behemoths to add difficulty to the fight, I would reduce the stationary totems by maybe 25% or so (so the target guild cant kill all 4) and make the behemoths do less damage and have less hp. </p><p>I guess I didnt see any problems with the other white adds from a MT healer stand point, but then again I'm not having to run around like a chicken with its head cut off trying to keep them off everyone else.</p><p>The fight did take us over 10min to kill in its current form so maybe lower hp on the named some (or maybe lowering the hp on the behemoths if they arent suppose to be a fail condition is enough).</p>

[Apake]

<p>I think you did a really great job on this zone as a whole, the fine tuning stuff aside, the scripts are all pretty fun with not a lot of super annoying factors (like curing spreading curses, curing uncurable debuffs while running around a room building agro and doing an HO within 10 seconds, and doing it again every minute...or dealing with a memwiping boss that does a big AE curse, while being iced or having adds make the mem-wiper not attackable as he runs across the room, and having a spreading curse to deal with every 15 seconds...you know, annoying stuff)</p><p>I dont usually post on the good points as much cause I figured y'all knew, but there's a lot of good parts of the zone, I just mentioned the few things I saw that I felt could use a few changes, so not tryin to sound as negative.</p><p>The zone as a whole, going through it again tonight, I think the few things that need to be tuned to be in line with the difficulty level would be the crazy mem-wiping of the twin giants (amazing encounter and script btw, but the insane memwiping when you are faster on one then the other gets way out of hand)</p><p>Also the harpy boss encounter, like the previous post I made, some tuning on the fix you did, it made it harder for sure, but not quite sure people that will be doing it for the loot from that encounter can handle it as it is now.</p><p>The dragon encounter is pretty awesome too so far, I think a few things to tune might be changing the elemental that pushes you back.....either get rid of the huge dots, or get rid of the push back on those, if you intend people to fight on the ice, because most guilds will just be finding a place to put the healers so they arent sliding around as it is now, the knockback/up is fine, but the elementals do so much damage I think making them slide you is a little much, especially if you get stunned as it throws you....and can't control where you are going....may want to tone the stuns down a little in duration.</p><p>The biggest problem I see with the zone as a whole though is still the yeti pelt quest.... I realize you wanted people to go through multiple times, and I would honestly be more for making everyone go through it 2 times like it was before instead of making it so there is a chance for some guilds to go through it 1 time and some to go through it 2 times. I can tell you if there are any raid guilds going through that first or second day and get to that point and find out they can't get to the last boss, even though they were 2nd or 3rd to kill the harpy lady, and they have to wait 5 days while 10 other guilds kill the dragon before them, there are going to be some very very upset customers.</p><p>At least with having to do it 2 times for the updates to even see the last boss (however crazy that is) then everyone was still on a level playing field with everyone else.</p><p>Maybe make some event to spawn more yeti's? Or some quest line that leads to resetting the zones mobs the first time you finish it? Or just make it clear from the start of the zone that you are going to have to come back again to be able to face the last dragon, so you arent trying to figure out what you did wrong or how to get there when you don't have enough pelt updates.</p><p>Great job on the zone, just think the issue needs to be looked at before it comes out and some people are randomly left out of experiencing the final boss in the same time as other people, and the final couple fights tuned down a little bit for other guilds to be able to do it that would actuall wear the armor from those mobs.</p>

[Apake]

<p>Honestly, after reading a few posts in here, and Saev's post, I'm really starting to see it from your target audiences perspective for this zone, and I think the last few fights do need a lot of toning down...</p><p>The fights may be too easy for us, but honestly we aren't going to be wearing any of this stuff aynway, and we have The Hole zone to hopefully give upgrades and harder fights.</p><p>Looking at it from that perspective, I do think the big boom stuff on the first drake was a little excessive, I see you tuned it down some in the patch, haven't tried it since then.</p><p>The yeti that pops adds bugs out and slides around on the ground to the tank after they spawn sometimes, maybe make sure he stays in place, and give him the message that the other 2 mobs in the SF expansion say when they do the same type of adds to help them figure out whats happening.</p><p>Make sure the yeti in the 3rd encounter Captain/ LT. always makes it where he is supposed to and doesn't hang around sometimes.</p><p>The bowling pin yeti / tamer guy is a lot harder for where he is at in the zone then I think he should be, maybe give a build-up or some running in place as he gets his target, or  something, I know if we had a melee get the guy heading to him, it would kill us all around there. I think it would be un-recoverable for a guild progressing barely past the chess board. Give like 3-5 seconds of build-up then comes the charge, giving people some clear out time or something, and a better way to distinguish where he is headed to when he gets going..... and why does he have to pound the person until they die?.....maybe give them some way of not dying when they get the target (if there is I'm sorry, I missed that one) just seems very difficult for where it's at, it is definately fun, but I'm not sure how in line it is.</p><p>The twins and the ice maiden are way too hard for the people that are actually going to be needing the upgrades (maybe drop the mem-wipe from the giant twins, and make it so Odaufe can be handled by a caster or something).</p><p>These are changes I think will have to go in like a month or two down the road anyway, when no one at all is doing the zone because people that don't need the loot aren't doing it anymore, and people that do need it can't get past those guys....so maybe get it smoothed before hand so the easier raiding guilds can get a crack at the loot they will actually use.</p>

[Aatex]

<p><cite>Remora@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Wait a minute......furies have heals!?!? Ours always claimed she was the new SK class.</blockquote><p>^^^ This.</p><p>Also, I know a lot of people were saying that the Maiden fight was too easy, and it is, however doubling the hp of the totems just makes the fight longer not necessarily more difficult. That is one of my biggest complaints about raid encounters. More hp != more difficult in most cases. For example back in miraguls after you kill tuskers and had to spend forever killing haladin enraged. That was mind-numbing. I found myself going into auto-pilot on the maiden fight and developing a case of the yawns =/ I know the other healers were getting pretty bored too.</p><p>Other than that the other encounters are pretty fun <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Rocc]

<p>I'm disappointed this is going live tomorrow and there wasn't an organized community pickup raid. Miragul's Planar Shard was a good example how organizing raids ie scheduled DEV led events, produce positive feedback that a select few of individuals have tested. It's not like there are any descent guilds on testcopy that are actually testing this. In order to have tested it you would have had to gotten lucky with online peeps tweaking toons their thinking about playing but have not idea how. Or a smart, well geared raid force would have spent a few nights of their scheduled raid time to /testcopy a raid in this zone. But in most cases I highly doubt this has happened. Now this is gonna go live and still have bugs...</p><p>Those that are currently farming labs and tox have a bit of an advantage over my guild. We are a little slower in progression with getting everyone crit mit. It would have been nice to offer our crit mit "tier" an opportunity to add some feedback as well. Old Man Dave is nice yes, but testing in your actual level of crit mit is much more realistic to ensure 24 people dont waste their time when this goes live tomorrow.</p><p>Bad implementation of testing feedback IMO. With all due respect...</p>

[Remora]

<p>Here's a thought, if you want someone with your guilds level of gear and play skill to give input on the new zone, <strong>THEN COPY OVER TO TEST AND DO IT YOURSELF </strong>(literally all you had to do was "/testcopy add" and you would be on testcopy).  Why do you need a dev there to hold your hand while you try it out?  Why do you need a special title or some other fluff to motivate you to log onto testcopy to try new content?  We didn't.  We made a effort to set aside a couple days over the last couple weeks to log onto test as a guild during our normal raid time and play through the zone.  While doing that we posted our thoughts on the zone and pointed out bugs and tweaks we thought it could use.  If you look back on this thread, Gninja has been responding to our feedback and been making changes.  If your feedback isnt being discussed or implemented, its because you arent providing any.</p><p>In summary<strong>, No QQ'ing unless you are pew pewing   </strong></p>

[Aatex]

<p><cite>Rocc@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It's not like there are any descent guilds on testcopy that are actually testing this.</p><p>Or a smart, well geared raid force would have spent a few nights of their scheduled raid time to /testcopy a raid in this zone. But in most cases I highly doubt this has happened. Now this is gonna go live and still have bugs...</p></blockquote><p>Idon't understand what point you are trying to make. You say there aren't any "decent guilds" testing this. When in fact, yes there are guilds testing and feedbacking. Have you not read any of this thread?</p><p>As far as the Old Man Dave level buffer goes, that is not your only option. If you and/or your guild type in "/testcopy add" from live server then your toon will be copied over.</p><p>And what bugs are you talking about? You need to be specific so the Devs can respond appropriately. From what I gather from your post you haven't even been in the zone to experience the encounters... jussayin.</p>

[Arno24]

Last ice madien = boring long fight that will be brutal for guilds with low dps. Yeti pelt quests needs a GARENTEED way to get all 10 pelts. Being the one guild to not be able to kill the dragon just because you got unlucky with pelt drops is going to suck for that guild <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> That would be like the first time you enter a new raid zone there is a 1% chance that the boss will not spawn.

[Gaige]

<p>Anything easy enough to die first time in won't count for progression anyway imo.</p>

[Gninja]

<p>The Yeti have been changed to 100% drop so noone gets left out. You will still have to go turn in the quest however...</p>

[Remora]

<p>ah man...you mean i have to walk to the front of the zone and zone out...../quit =P  Just kiddin</p>

[FimisOrbe]

<p><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The Yeti have been changed to 100% drop so noone gets left out. You will still have to go turn in the quest however...</p></blockquote><p> =(</p><p>Liked it more before, who cares if you cant kill Vrewwx First time in Zone. Not like you wont kill him until next Expansion hits anyway.</p>

[Remora]

<p>kill it next expansion!?!?!??!  Try next week</p>

[FimisOrbe]

<p>Guess you missunderstood: You will kill him until next Expansion hits, so that one Time doesnt matter at all, but crying helps~</p>

[Gninja]

<p>Started a new thread in the developer roundtable. Please post any feedback you guys have in that thread from now on. Thanks for all the testing and feedback already given <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>