Suggestion: Halve the effects of crit bonus on all heals

[knightofround]

<p>While I like the removal of one-shots from PvP combat, I think the primary balancing issue in BGs is healing. Now that mage spike dps is gone, it is incredibly difficult to kill both healers and tanks. This has turned BGs from being one-shot gankfests to immortal healfests.</p><p>Although an argument could be made that such changes promote more skilled play, in practice it just is...boring. Flag bearers duke it out in the center of Ganak with no fear of dying, smuggler matches are really just a matter of having more people fighting ontop of the flags than the other teams, and gears...well now its basically whoever can click the relic fastest when it drops wins.</p><p>There needs to be a balance. One-shots are bad. Healfests are bad. Something has to be done to move closer to a more happy medium</p><p>I think a big part of the problem is the influence that crit bonus has upon heals. As you get more BG gear you pick up a substantial amount of crit bonus and pvp potency gear. This is a great boost to your dps, however its efficiacy is diminished by the toughness stat. So in a way, crit bonus and toughness kind of negate each other out when it comes to DPS.</p><p>When it comes to heals though...thats a different story. There is no pvp stat or proc that reduces heal crit bonus/potency in the way that toughness does. True, there are the mutilation procs, but those are very much luck based and not passive in the way that toughness is. (And I could be wrong about this but aren't they curable anyway?) Furthermore, they're not available on every slot like toughness is, and the mutilation proc is useless against classes who don't heal...on the other hand, everyone does damage so toughness is good versus everyone.</p><p>As a result, as more people get BG gear crit bonus goes up across the board...but so does toughness, so overall dps output remains the same. However, heal output continues to grow and grow to outlandish proportions....which result in long matches where nobody dies.</p><p>My suggestion: Cut the effects of critbonus on all heals by 1/2 in BGs, so they are just like wards are in pve (for the time being anyway). Such a fix should be applied to both tanks and healers, as currently tanks as just as hard to kill as healers...largely because they benefit from outlandishly scaling heal crit bonus just like healers do.</p><p>Thoughts?</p>

[AziBam]

<p><cite>knightofround wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>While I like the removal of one-shots from PvP combat, I think the primary balancing issue in BGs is healing. Now that mage spike dps is gone, it is incredibly difficult to kill both healers and tanks. This has turned BGs from being one-shot gankfests to immortal healfests.</p><p>Although an argument could be made that such changes promote more skilled play, in practice it just is...boring. Flag bearers duke it out in the center of Ganak with no fear of dying, smuggler matches are really just a matter of having more people fighting ontop of the flags than the other teams, and gears...well now its basically whoever can click the relic fastest when it drops wins.</p><p>There needs to be a balance. One-shots are bad. Healfests are bad. Something has to be done to move closer to a more happy medium</p></blockquote><p>I tend to agree with your assessment of the current status quo.  Other than casters though, who are still reeling from the change, I think it's interesting to note that a lot of PVPers who comment on this issue say it's actually closer now to what PVP was prior to the launch of the BGs and that..well..we need to L2P.  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> (I'm from PVE.) Not that I take the word of all PVPers as gospel truth (good lord, no) but in fairness many of them have years of experience that we are trying to garner in a hurry now for this environment.</p><p>I had mostly run my SK and my warlock prior to the changes.  (Mostly the lock tbh.)  I've been thinking of trying out my Illusionist.  Not because I expect to do a ton of damage (hell, they can't even do that in PVE this expansion) but because of the myriad of control effects and "dirty tricks" they have in their tool bag that might help disrupt opponents in general and healers in particular.  I'll be putting it to the test this weekend (assuming the BGs are up.)</p><p>Specifically for heals, one thing I'm very interested to see is how it will go as people start picking up a bit more mutilation gear.  I know I looked at it as pretty underwhelming when I first viewed but but now....</p><p>Not sure I'd like the idea of 1/2 crit bonus applying to heals really.</p>

[Tehom]

<p>...I certainly would get behind crits only having half value on wards. Yeah! That'll show those shamans.</p><p>But seriously, I pretty much agree, except that better geared scouts don't seem to have many problems killing people. Personally I feel that more extensive use of mutilation procs on BG gear would probably solve the problem without additional mechanics changes.</p>

[Seolta]

<p>Chain stun/stifle healers and kill them.</p><p>Work as a team.</p><p>IMO 1v1 survivability will never be balanced between the 4 archetypes, much less 24 classes so don't even bother complaining about that aspect.</p>

[Chiyoiche]

<p>this is a joke thread, right? i mean seariously, you want to nerf the healers now? first it was nerf the sorcerers! then, other threads about nerf the scouts! some shouting nerf the tanks! now im guessing nerf the healer is a the flavor of the weekend?</p><p>i play both my 90 warden, and my lock in BGs, and this is just rediculous. if you want to kill the healer, work as a team. chances are if just one of you goes up agains the healer your not going to kill them...save for scouts, and brawlers...(shakes her fists at the brawlers...lol) to me, if your against a team, who only has one healer, and your having a hard time taking down their tank, change tactic. ensure the death of the healer by working together, Battlegrounds isnt a 1vs1 pvp map. its group(s) and or raid.</p><p>have you even played a healer in BGs? if you have then you would know how flustering it can be when your against a group who has a plan and knows what their doing. healers are the first target almost always. and its stressful. if we die, you die. some groups get lucky, and end of with two or three. now those are a PAIN! but that is on the matchmaking side of SOEs mechanics. needs to be fixed desperately so that no group gets more then two healers.</p><p>people wanting to nerf healers n things is just rediculous. you DO realize this would affect your group? make YOU, and your group more killable with even more deaths then you already have? im sorry you have probly got stuck in a few groups with more than 2 healers, or a grup with 2 awsom healers, or a group with even one awsom healer and couldnt kill them. but i can just about guarantee you if healers get nerfed, even FEWER healers will play BGs. then even more people will be saying how healers hardly play BGs anymore.</p><p>playing a healer is tought in BGs, we are first targeted by the other team to die, we get yelled at for not healing when the other members of the team run off in five directions and out of our heal range then blame us for dying, when we are staying with the tank.we get picked off by brawlers and scouts, then get yelled at sometimes for even dying.(yep seen one getted harshed on for going smoosh)and if we arent targeted by them, we get targeted by a smart group. 6v1 little healer and die, then swear a bit and run back after reviving to heal our group. lol we get debuffed constantly, wearing down our defenses by smart groups, until we are yet again, dead.</p><p>i enjoy going against smart groups who not only protect their relic and or flag holder, but their healer too. it means that group knows what they are doing, making my team work harder to take them down. to many people are wanting EASY wins. they want the gear, with little effort. i dont really agree on the crits thing at all. the issue is more the matchmaker then crits and people complaining after they loose several matches in a row. your not going to win every round. plain and simple. just move on to the next match.</p>

[Kizee]

<p>Yes, make it so NO healers want to go to BG's.</p><p>Isn't there a healer shortage already?</p>

[AziBam]

<p><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes, make it so NO healers want to go to BG's.</p><p>Isn't there a healer shortage already?</p></blockquote><p>It certainly seems that way.  With a few exceptions, most of the people I know who have healer mains in PVE have NO INTEREST whatsoever in running those toons in the BGs.  From personal experience, I'd say it's stressful although I'd also say I had fun on my warden the few times I ran him.  Haven't been brave enough to try my mystic.  Slow casting plus no control break ability (other than potions, etc.) did not sound like fun to me.  Maybe I'm shortchanging him though.</p>

[Crismorn]

<p>One of two things needs to happen in the near future.</p><p>Damage needs to be raised for EVERYONE OR healing needs to be lowered for EVERYONE.</p><p>Everyone = every single class in this game, if healing is touched then lifetaps, poisons, procs, etc.  Basically anything that can heal a player in any possible way needs to be lowered across the board NOT just healers</p>

[Crismorn]

<p><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes, make it so NO healers want to go to BG's.</p><p>Isn't there a healer shortage already?</p></blockquote><p>Try to have an open mind, every classin this game can heal right now and to me thats more stupid then lowering my personal healing ability</p>

[LardLord]

<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>One of two things needs to happen in the near future.</p><p>Damage needs to be raised for EVERYONE OR healing needs to be lowered for EVERYONE.</p></blockquote><p>I tend to agree with that except that when you actually come accross people who are well geared and know how to PvP (it's extremely rare in my experience) they have no problem killing healers.  I'm talking about team encounters, not 1v1.</p>

[Crismorn]

<p>Gears is not meant to be how it is right now.</p><p>Two groups with a non-suck healer on each side fighting in the middle for 20 minutes with a total of 10 deaths on both sides total including relic deaths.</p><p>I liked gears, I do not like playing "Who can get the relic first"</p><p>Smugglers and Ganak are fine I guess since you have more people able to use #'s to take down healers</p>

[ntommyb]

<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Gears is not meant to be how it is right now.</p><p>Two groups with a non-suck healer on each side fighting in the middle for 20 minutes with a total of 10 deaths on both sides total including relic deaths.</p><p>I liked gears, I do not like playing "Who can get the relic first"</p><p>Smugglers and Ganak are fine I guess since you have more people able to use #'s to take down healers</p></blockquote><p>I love gears and I'm not sure you have the inside scoop on what its "meant to be".  I love the fact that anyone solo running around is painfully obvious and usually dies anyone standing on the healer gets a chance to parse huge and show off all that wicked gear they work so hard for.  </p>

[Raznor2]

<p>They are raising spell damage up 15 percent, they announced that with the features for the next game update.  Also, if you want to lower healing they make procs that reduce the effectiveness of heals, why not use those?  Plus, draining mana and cc along with everyone targetting and coordinating their burst dps on the same person works wonders.</p><p>~Raznor</p>

[StaticLex]

<p>If you are asking for a healer nerf then you are simply a bad player IMO.  When I play my scout I almost never have a problem burning down a healer.  Besides.. the chain stuns, stifles, and knockdowns are already ridiculous enough and will probably cause healers to stop playing anyway.</p>

[Shankapotomus]

<p>Can we make taunts less effective? lower stun durations? Stop stifles? nerf meses? reduce debuffs? No more slowing casting speeds?</p><p>These are all things I see that make me not unstoppable.</p><p>Can we learn how to play the game instead of complaining?! for the hundredth time. A healer is ment to be able to keep up a full group correct? So everyone QQin about how they can't take down the healer solo... You're not supposed to be able to...</p><p>Your main problem is your group is not working together. Your group needs to work to beat the other group, don't think you are significan singlely.</p>

[Brynhild]

<p>Whoever thinks healers need nerf to heals is crazy, they need to nerf melee so it can't kill someone in 1 second.</p><p> I don't think there's a healer out there that can outheal a similar geared predator or rogue class, or even a berserker.</p><p>Before xpac, it was much more evened out in TSO.   They have a lot of work to do on balancing this. Resist change was step 1, now melee change needs to occur and also adjustment of a lot of procs.</p><p>Give them time and they will adjust it all. What really bothers me is why they simply didn't leave it exactly how it was in TSO, it was finally ..ALMOST balanced to a point :/</p>

[TheVekk]

<p><cite>Shankapotomus@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Can we make taunts less effective? lower stun durations? Stop stifles? nerf meses? reduce debuffs? No more slowing casting speeds?</p><p>These are all things I see that make me not unstoppable.</p><p>Can we learn how to play the game instead of complaining?! for the hundredth time. A healer is ment to be able to keep up a full group correct? So everyone QQin about how they can't take down the healer solo... You're not supposed to be able to...</p><p>Your main problem is your group is not working together. Your group needs to work to beat the other group, don't think you are significan singlely.</p></blockquote><p>WHAT?!?!?!? why would anyone want to actualy LEARN how to pvp when it is so much easier to shout Nerf!!!</p><p>people dont want to take the time to learn how to kill good healer they just want them nerfed so anyone can kill them and not have to assist or do any of the basic functions in pvp....</p>

[Brynhild]

<p>I WANT it to take skill to PVP.  I don't want to ever be able to kill a healer if they don't want to die, but know that they can't do anything to me if they are in heal spec.  </p><p>Maybe the priest heal stance should reduce all incoming damage 50% and reduce all damage output 80% ,  so if they want to stay alive due to the high dps scouts put out they have to be in heal stance which means they can't do anything to you at all.   That's pretty much how TSO was, healers had no chance of killing anyone unless they stuck around for 30 minutes. IMHO that's how it should be, unless the healer is in DPS stance, then it should do significant dps but be squishy.</p>

[Shankapotomus]

<p><cite>Brynhild wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I WANT it to take skill to PVP.  I don't want to ever be able to kill a healer if they don't want to die, but know that they can't do anything to me if they are in heal spec.  </p><p>Maybe the priest heal stance should reduce all incoming damage 50% and reduce all damage output 80% ,  so if they want to stay alive due to the high dps scouts put out they have to be in heal stance which means they can't do anything to you at all.   That's pretty much how TSO was, healers had no chance of killing anyone unless they stuck around for 30 minutes. IMHO that's how it should be, unless the healer is in DPS stance, then it should do significant dps but be squishy.</p></blockquote><p>Ah, I'm not sure you know much of PvP...</p><p>Endline AA for your heal either buffs heals or DpS and lowers the other one, and they don't work unless you're in your corresponding stance...</p><p>NO class should be unkillable... A healer should never do significant DpS or stay alive indefinitely just becuase they are in a stance... I thought you were talking about taking skill?</p>

[Brynhild]

<p>I do know what the stances do, and yes pretty much a healer should be unkillable by 1 person but unable to do any dps otherwise how are they supposed to heal a group in pvp? I know a lot about pvp, been doing it since it started on eq2.</p><p>Right now things are way out of whack..</p>

[Shankapotomus]

<p>But you think and extra 50% damage reduction on top of the 40% from toughness would be good? thats a 90% damage reduction when healers roll around typicaly at 16k-20k HP now...</p><p>The only things that could kill a shamon with 90% dmg reduction would be a raid of assins with dirges sprinkled in and they all hit assinate at the same time.</p><p>Thanks for further proving my point that we need to stop yelling for game mechanic changes and learn to play.</p><p>Once again... 90% dmg reduction has been stated for healers...</p>

[Orthureon]

<p>I love when people say "Healers were meant to keep up a whole group!", yes that is 100% true. However, people never like to think outside of the box, because face it who likes to be nerfed?</p><p>I suggested way back when -- even when I was still playing my inquis -- that nerfing healers across the board is not the way to do it. My idea was pretty simple;</p><ul><li>Healer solo = heals 50% of their maximum heal potential.</li><li>Healer with 1 other = heals 60% of their maximum heal potential.</li><li>Healer with 2 others = heals 70% of their maximum heal potential.</li><li>Healer with 3 others = heals 80% of their maximum heal potential.</li><li>Healer with 4 others = heals 90% of their maximum heal potential.</li><li>Healer with 5 others = heals 100% of their maximum heal potential.</li></ul><p>The base amount when solo would have to be toyed with, but that is a given. Now if they would only nerf crusaders...</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Orthureon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I love when people say "Healers were meant to keep up a whole group!", yes that is 100% true. However, people never like to think outside of the box, because face it who likes to be nerfed?</p><p>I suggested way back when -- even when I was still playing my inquis -- that nerfing healers across the board is not the way to do it. My idea was pretty simple;</p><ul><li>Healer solo = heals 50% of their maximum heal potential.</li><li>Healer with 1 other = heals 60% of their maximum heal potential.</li><li>Healer with 2 others = heals 70% of their maximum heal potential.</li><li>Healer with 3 others = heals 80% of their maximum heal potential.</li><li>Healer with 4 others = heals 90% of their maximum heal potential.</li><li>Healer with 5 others = heals 100% of their maximum heal potential.</li></ul><p>The base amount when solo would have to be toyed with, but that is a given. Now if they would only nerf crusaders...</p></blockquote><p>This is not the anwser either, There are many classes already if they are played right that can still put out enough DPS to make healing hard  1 on1 and leave very little time to DPS as is, but now if you nerf heals because they are alone, assassins, brigs, and probally sorces after they are done re adjusting damage would now dominate a healer alone.</p>

[LardLord]

<p><cite>Orthureon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><ul><li>Healer solo = heals 50% of their maximum heal potential.</li><li>Healer with 1 other = heals 60% of their maximum heal potential.</li><li>Healer with 2 others = heals 70% of their maximum heal potential.</li><li>Healer with 3 others = heals 80% of their maximum heal potential.</li><li>Healer with 4 others = heals 90% of their maximum heal potential.</li><li>Healer with 5 others = heals 100% of their maximum heal potential.</li></ul></blockquote><p>That would just make it even more frustrating when your group all runs off in different directions and give pre-mades an even greater advantage.</p>

[Shankapotomus]

<p><cite>Orthureon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I love when people say "Healers were meant to keep up a whole group!", yes that is 100% true. However, people never like to think outside of the box, <span style="color: #00ff00;">because face it who likes to be nerfed</span>?</p><p>I suggested way back when -- even when I was still playing my inquis -- that nerfing healers across the board is not the way to do it. My idea was pretty simple;</p><ul><li>Healer solo = heals 50% of their maximum heal potential.</li><li>Healer with 1 other = heals 60% of their maximum heal potential.</li><li>Healer with 2 others = heals 70% of their maximum heal potential.</li><li>Healer with 3 others = heals 80% of their maximum heal potential.</li><li>Healer with 4 others = heals 90% of their maximum heal potential.</li><li>Healer with 5 others = heals 100% of their maximum heal potential.</li></ul><p>The base amount when solo would have to be toyed with, but that is a given. Now if they would only nerf crusaders...</p></blockquote><p>I could care less about a nerf if it was neccasary for balance. But I have not ran into one healer yet who has not died in a BG against me. But you cannot change a game mechanic and make it less effective for one class while all others can take full advantage of it...</p>

[Orthureon]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Orthureon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I love when people say "Healers were meant to keep up a whole group!", yes that is 100% true. However, people never like to think outside of the box, because face it who likes to be nerfed?</p><p>I suggested way back when -- even when I was still playing my inquis -- that nerfing healers across the board is not the way to do it. My idea was pretty simple;</p><ul><li>Healer solo = heals 50% of their maximum heal potential.</li><li>Healer with 1 other = heals 60% of their maximum heal potential.</li><li>Healer with 2 others = heals 70% of their maximum heal potential.</li><li>Healer with 3 others = heals 80% of their maximum heal potential.</li><li>Healer with 4 others = heals 90% of their maximum heal potential.</li><li>Healer with 5 others = heals 100% of their maximum heal potential.</li></ul><p>The base amount when solo would have to be toyed with, but that is a given. Now if they would only nerf crusaders...</p></blockquote><p>This is not the anwser either, There are many classes already if they are played right that can still put out enough DPS to make healing hard  1 on1 and leave very little time to DPS as is, but now if you nerf heals because they are alone, assassins, brigs, and probally sorces after they are done re adjusting damage would now dominate a healer alone.</p></blockquote><p>I understand your point of view, but like I said the amounts would need to be adjusted so they are not squishy but not "god-mode" either. I mean honestly what class can kill you 1v1 atm?</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Orthureon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Orthureon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I love when people say "Healers were meant to keep up a whole group!", yes that is 100% true. However, people never like to think outside of the box, because face it who likes to be nerfed?</p><p>I suggested way back when -- even when I was still playing my inquis -- that nerfing healers across the board is not the way to do it. My idea was pretty simple;</p><ul><li>Healer solo = heals 50% of their maximum heal potential.</li><li>Healer with 1 other = heals 60% of their maximum heal potential.</li><li>Healer with 2 others = heals 70% of their maximum heal potential.</li><li>Healer with 3 others = heals 80% of their maximum heal potential.</li><li>Healer with 4 others = heals 90% of their maximum heal potential.</li><li>Healer with 5 others = heals 100% of their maximum heal potential.</li></ul><p>The base amount when solo would have to be toyed with, but that is a given. Now if they would only nerf crusaders...</p></blockquote><p>This is not the anwser either, There are many classes already if they are played right that can still put out enough DPS to make healing hard  1 on1 and leave very little time to DPS as is, but now if you nerf heals because they are alone, assassins, brigs, and probally sorces after they are done re adjusting damage would now dominate a healer alone.</p></blockquote><p>I understand your point of view, but like I said the amounts would need to be adjusted so they are not squishy but not "god-mode" either. I mean honestly what class can kill you 1v1 atm?</p></blockquote><p>A good assassin and brig do have the chance to kill me, hands down, but throw in a second player, just about anyone with good DPS paired with anything with a bunch of KBs could kill me honestly.</p>

[Shinmuriel]

<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Gears is not meant to be how it is right now.</p><p>Two groups with a non-suck healer on each side fighting in the middle for 20 minutes with a total of 10 deaths on both sides total including relic deaths.</p><p>I liked gears, I do not like playing "Who can get the relic first"</p><p>Smugglers and Ganak are fine I guess since you have more people able to use #'s to take down healers</p></blockquote><p>I agree and would just like to add how broke my fury is because of the damage changes. SOE crapped on illusionists this year so I picked up my fury (because the druid changes were supposed to be so great) and I was actually enjoying being able to do a little damage (not one shot people) while solo healing my group but now fights are so long fury's have little hope in random matches where no chanter is anywhere to be found, they simply fail flat out. The class is completely broken in BG now because of mana regen issues, there is NEVER a time in most BG matches now when you can regen mana out of combat. They do not need to nerf every healers healing ability anymore than they needed to nerf every mages damage, SOE overcompensates in everything they "try" to do and its getting disgusting tbh. They need to nerf wards IMO because quite simply, chain healers are gods in PvP. It has nothing to do with making the game unappealing to those players its about making the game playable and enjoyable to everyone. Its just not fair that devs favorite classes get to be gods while everyone else gets sheit on.</p><p>More than once i have seen a pally and mystic hold off entire raids on the central tower while reinforcement arrived minutes later. I could almost hear "Eye of the Tiger" playing in the background as two people held off 12 others, it looked like a scene from a comic book where two X-Men fight an entire police department. Im sorry, its time you lose your miracle juice guys. I would say i hope that my fury doesn't get f***ed over like all of the mages did when the cast nerfs went in but i know its to much to ask from SOE to actually think things through. I have long since gave up on BG's and the only reason ill even step foot into it now will be for easy gear (then go running away as fast as possible), its wretchid. Already i hear talk of EQ3 and im sorry SOE, your not going to float another 10 years on EQ1's good name because you are destroying it, i smell death on your breath and it pleases me. RIP.</p>

[ailen]

<p>Everything needs an overhaul.  Not just healers, but all dps classes as well.</p><p>I think we can all agree that what we want is a game that caters to more to skill instead of class/gear combinations that are near impossible to kill...</p><p>Heals are too powerful, and in some cases so is dps.  If you have some classes that can put out insane dps numbers, then you must also have healers that can put out insane heal numbers to counter it.  What happens is that people that don't have insane dps (most other nonscout dps classes) will never be able to kill a decently geared /skilled healer.  Or you need to have the exact class that has the specific CC to kill one. </p><p>How many times have you heard, well they have this class or that class.  we're screwed?</p><p>Heals need to be toned down, but only if melee dps is toned down..</p><p>Im not asking for specific class nerfs, just a general overhaul of what we have now.</p><p>I don't think you would be able to find many people that disagree with this.</p>

[knightofround]

<p>Look, I'm not out to nerf any single class. All I care about is BGs being fun. And the simple truth is, BGs aren't quite as fun as they used to be, because everyone is more difficult to kill. And I mean everyone, not just healers.</p><p>You could argue that its easy to kill anybody if you L2P, focus fire, and time CCs properly...and sure, you're absolutely right. But I would also argue that if your opponent is any good they will do the same, and you'll be left at a boring stalemate.</p><p>That's why I am suggesting  we fix the problem by addressing the way that crit bonus affects heals, rather than talking about nerfing particular abilities/classes. I don't think this would be out of line, as most if not all weapons/spells/CA have their damage reduced in pvp.</p>

[TalisX1]

<p><cite>knightofround wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Look, I'm not out to nerf any single class. All I care about is BGs being fun. And the simple truth is, BGs aren't quite as fun as they used to be, because everyone is more difficult to kill. And I mean everyone, not just healers.</p><p>You could argue that its easy to kill anybody if you L2P, focus fire, and time CCs properly...and sure, you're absolutely right. But I would also argue that if your opponent is any good they will do the same, and you'll be left at a boring stalemate.</p><p>That's why I am suggesting  we fix the problem by addressing the way that crit bonus affects heals, rather than talking about nerfing particular abilities/classes. I don't think this would be out of line, as most if not all weapons/spells/CA have their damage reduced in pvp.</p></blockquote><p>Heals are reduced in PvP the same way weapons/spells/Ca's are.</p><p>Silat</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>TalisX1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>knightofround wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Look, I'm not out to nerf any single class. All I care about is BGs being fun. And the simple truth is, BGs aren't quite as fun as they used to be, because everyone is more difficult to kill. And I mean everyone, not just healers.</p><p>You could argue that its easy to kill anybody if you L2P, focus fire, and time CCs properly...and sure, you're absolutely right. But I would also argue that if your opponent is any good they will do the same, and you'll be left at a boring stalemate.</p><p>That's why I am suggesting  we fix the problem by addressing the way that crit bonus affects heals, rather than talking about nerfing particular abilities/classes. I don't think this would be out of line, as most if not all weapons/spells/CA have their damage reduced in pvp.</p></blockquote><p>Heals are reduced in PvP the same way weapons/spells/Ca's are.</p><p>Silat</p></blockquote><p>QFT, I think Mutilation should lower damage/dps when on other classes than healers too, people actually wear them now, and IMO, it balanced the heals out since it procs so often</p>

[Tehom]

<p>I agree that mutilation will help balance things out more. However, I think mages need more resist debuff procs, which should have values around spiritual nightmare and stacking from multiple casters, in order to threaten people in appropriate numbers, though.</p><p>It's worth bringing up these problems now because someone with 5% pvp crit mit adorns in most of their blue slots and 20% pvp crit mit from two of the armor pieces is going to be remarkably more difficult to kill than the current players, and players won't really see any significant increase in offensive capability to counter that. I'm pretty skeptical that a 15% increase in spell damage will offset the survivability gains, making mages even more marginal in the next season.</p>

[LardLord]

<p><cite>Chath@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I agree that mutilation will help balance things out more. However, I think mages need more resist debuff procs, which should have values around spiritual nightmare and stacking from multiple casters, in order to threaten people in appropriate numbers, though.</p><p>It's worth bringing up these problems now because someone with 5% pvp crit mit adorns in most of their blue slots and 20% pvp crit mit from two of the armor pieces is going to be remarkably more difficult to kill than the current players, and players won't really see any significant increase in offensive capability to counter that. I'm pretty skeptical that a 15% increase in spell damage will offset the survivability gains, making mages even more marginal in the next season.</p></blockquote><p>That's the problem with the BG armor - it's all about defensive bonuses with toughness and such.  Even the class specific blue adornments are focused on making you harder to kill (except the fighter one? /shrug). </p><p>If the new gear were only a slight survivability upgrade (at least for mages and scouts, if not fighters and priests as well) but provided much more significant upgrades in the offensive department...we'd at least have some hope that people would be a bit more killable when the GU hits.</p>