Maximizing DPS

[Draylore]

<p>My DPS isnt what I think it should be (avg 16-20k on raids) so would appreciate any advice on how to maximize Assassin DPS. Yeah i know first rule is to NOT DIE so much. <img title="Sad" src="./images/smilies/icon_sad.gif" />Here is my current spec that I use on raids: hopefully link works.<a class="postlink" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.beetny.com/eq2aa/?002r184a184a1@884a188@28112d5555@1555@25@25@1535@ 15511@1125@35121f@355@555@21@4551@255@1511">http://www.beetny.com/eq2aa/?002r18...1@4551@255@1511</a>My basic mode of operation for named/long fights is to hit temp buffs then my debuffs, bleeds and Mark first....go thru non-stealth CAs until Dispatch is in then proceed with Conceal chain. For trash/short fights I usually skip the debuffs and bleeds. I try to make sure Intoxication is applied before each pull as best I can. I try to hit Mark everytime its up and when Im not spamming thru a conceal chain I try not to miss auto-attacks while hitting CAs.ATM my Conceal chain is Masked Strike->Ambush->Mortal Blade->Jugular Slice->Eviscerate->Assassinate->Fatal Followup.Ive played around with adding the 2 blue stealth AEs into the chain but not too sure about that? I also have tried to sneak in a auto-attack or 2 in the middle of the chain but not having much luck with that.From then i just I try to hit Mark everytime its up and try not to miss auto-attacks while hitting CAs as they come up.I save Death Blow for when mob is under 30%.Again would appreciate any advice.</p>

[bluefish]

<p>Definitely fit those two AE stealth attacks into your concealment before hitting fatal followup .. it will add to your FF damage .. I even wait to add a second Ambush in there before hitting FF at the end</p><p>On longer fights, wait and debuff first as to maximize your hits.  If fights are around a minute or longer dont wait to use death blow at the end.</p><p>fights that are short, you really wont have much time to debuff ..</p><p>You said you are averaging 16 to 20k, but what is the dps of the whole raid? .. if you are doing 12 to 14% of total raid dps .. I think you are doing just fine.</p>

[On3iron]

<p><cite>Teeboy@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I even wait to add a second Ambush in there before hitting FF at the end</p></blockquote><p>You just lost all credibility with that statement. A second ambush will add NO dps to FF.</p>

[Draylore]

<p><cite>Teeboy@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You said you are averaging 16 to 20k, but what is the dps of the whole raid? .. if you are doing 12 to 14% of total raid dps .. I think you are doing just fine.</p></blockquote><p>Our raid force has 2 Wizards and 2 Assassins. The top 4 parsers and we each are about 8-10% of the total raid DPS.</p>

[bluefish]

<p><cite>Caedo@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Teeboy@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I even wait to add a second Ambush in there before hitting FF at the end</p></blockquote><p>You just lost all credibility with that statement. A second ambush will add NO dps to FF.</p></blockquote><p>the reason you probably dont see a difference is that the second ambush has to be hit within 10 seconds once the concelament chain is started ..easily done with jester's cap .. other wise you have to be really quick with clicking.</p><p>But hey,  you go ahead and keep hitting only once.</p>

[Kaeth]

<p>Stop posting false information. Each attack only adds once, So if you manage to get PB off 2x it will only add a 1 multiplier.</p><p>Each Stealth CA adds a multiplier of 1. (5 Total) Stealth Assault adds a multiplier of 1.5. Slate adds a multiplier of 2. Maximum possible is 8.5.</p>

[Draylore]

<p><cite>Kaeth wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Stop posting false information. Each attack only adds once, So if you manage to get PB off 2x it will only add a 1 multiplier.</p><p>Each Stealth CA adds a multiplier of 1. (5 Total) Stealth Assault adds a multiplier of 1.5. Slate adds a multiplier of 2. Maximum possible is 8.5.</p></blockquote><p>Woot useful info <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Thanks.  I was never clear on how the FF multipliers worked.</p><p>But I always knew that each CA can only count once as a multiplier <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Taabissa]

<p><cite>Kaeth wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Stop posting false information. Each attack only adds once, So if you manage to get PB off 2x it will only add a 1 multiplier.</p><p>Each Stealth CA adds a multiplier of 1. (5 Total) Stealth Assault adds a multiplier of 1.5. Slate adds a multiplier of 2. Maximum possible is 8.5.</p></blockquote><p>Thats very interesting, thanks for the info <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Jrel]

<p>"Slate adds a multiplier of 2."</p><p>Hmm, what is "Slate"?</p>

[Warrant]

<p><cite>Nyfe@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>"Slate adds a multiplier of 2."</p><p>Hmm, what is "Slate"?</p></blockquote><p>Called "Massacre" now - blue DD AE</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Kaeth wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Stop posting false information. Each attack only adds once, So if you manage to get PB off 2x it will only add a 1 multiplier.</p><p>Each Stealth CA adds a multiplier of 1. (5 Total) Stealth Assault adds a multiplier of 1.5. Slate adds a multiplier of 2. Maximum possible is 8.5.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #993366;">That's good to know.  I knew about each one only being able to count once but I thought they all only counted as 1.</span></p>

[Kyaaadaa]

<p>So a question in response to the title of the thread:</p><p>I'm about to start using Betrayal's Song and Carotidcutter (I don't have my epic yet, Assassin is 77 atm), but I am currently using 2.5 second delay weapons. Once these 4 second delay weapons are on, I'm curious as to how long I should wait between combat arts to ensure these things go off. In my head, I believe that only a brief pause (less than a second) should allow the AA to go off, but is there a window of "DONT CLICK YET!!" or would just a small delay between CA's be sufficient?</p>

[gatrm]

<p>If you guys are having trouble timing your autoattacks, you should download the profit ui autoattack bar.  You should be able to find it at <a href="http://www.eq2interface.com/" target="_blank">eq2interface. </a>It helps a ton to get your autoattacks in and will help your dps if you have trouble timing....it just takes a bit to get used to the thing. </p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Kyaaadaa@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So a question in response to the title of the thread:</p><p>I'm about to start using Betrayal's Song and Carotidcutter (I don't have my epic yet, Assassin is 77 atm), but I am currently using 2.5 second delay weapons. Once these 4 second delay weapons are on, I'm curious as to how long I should wait between combat arts to ensure these things go off. In my head, I believe that only a brief pause (less than a second) should allow the AA to go off, but is there a window of "DONT CLICK YET!!" or would just a small delay between CA's be sufficient?</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #993366;">Type /weap to get your actual weapon delay, you should be able to chain cast at least 2-3 CAs between each autoattack even with maximum haste.</span></p>

[Warrant]

<p><cite>Kyaaadaa@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So a question in response to the title of the thread:</p><p>I'm about to start using Betrayal's Song and Carotidcutter (I don't have my epic yet, Assassin is 77 atm), but I am currently using 2.5 second delay weapons. Once these 4 second delay weapons are on, I'm curious as to how long I should wait between combat arts to ensure these things go off. In my head, I believe that only a brief pause (less than a second) should allow the AA to go off, but is there a window of "DONT CLICK YET!!" or would just a small delay between CA's be sufficient?</p></blockquote><p>Please for the love of all that is unholy DO NOT time your auto attacks</p>

[-=Hoss=-]

<p>no no, they should time auto attacks.  In fact, its so important, its best to cast no more than 2 comba arts, then wait till you see your char swing and cast 1 or 2 more.  Doing it this way, auto attack can get up to over 50% of your total damage. </p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Warrant@Nektulos wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kyaaadaa@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So a question in response to the title of the thread:</p><p>I'm about to start using Betrayal's Song and Carotidcutter (I don't have my epic yet, Assassin is 77 atm), but I am currently using 2.5 second delay weapons. Once these 4 second delay weapons are on, I'm curious as to how long I should wait between combat arts to ensure these things go off. In my head, I believe that only a brief pause (less than a second) should allow the AA to go off, but is there a window of "DONT CLICK YET!!" or would just a small delay between CA's be sufficient?</p></blockquote><p>Please for the love of all that is unholy DO NOT time your auto attacks</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #993366;">You're joking... right?</span></p>

[Warrant]

<p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Warrant@Nektulos wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kyaaadaa@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So a question in response to the title of the thread:</p><p>I'm about to start using Betrayal's Song and Carotidcutter (I don't have my epic yet, Assassin is 77 atm), but I am currently using 2.5 second delay weapons. Once these 4 second delay weapons are on, I'm curious as to how long I should wait between combat arts to ensure these things go off. In my head, I believe that only a brief pause (less than a second) should allow the AA to go off, but is there a window of "DONT CLICK YET!!" or would just a small delay between CA's be sufficient?</p></blockquote><p>Please for the love of all that is unholy DO NOT time your auto attacks</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #993366;">You're joking... right?</span></p></blockquote><p>Are you?</p><p>With repeated stabbings and endline AGI, your CAs fire so fast that hesitating for an AA to fire off, unless you are a micro-managing guru, will most likely result in a loss of dps. Furthermore, many newer assassins are interupting concealment chains to allow an aa which is always a mistake. This is an ancient argument among Assassins/scouts. We are not Rogues who benefit greatly from timed aa.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Warrant@Nektulos wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Are you?</p><p>With repeated stabbings and endline AGI, your CAs fire so fast that hesitating for an AA to fire off, unless you are a micro-managing guru, will most likely result in a loss of dps. Furthermore, many newer assassins are interupting concealment chains to allow an aa which is always a mistake. This is an ancient argument among Assassins/scouts. We are not Rogues who benefit greatly from timed aa.</p></blockquote><p>My auto attack regularly crits for 19k+ damage.  My average auto attack hit is 14k~.  I raid with 27% flurry.  I raid with 100% double attack, and between 28% and 48% AE auto attack.</p><p>Timing auto attack is essential as an assassin if you want to parse well in SF.  Any assassin who doesn't do it, is silly.  I actually hate using concealment without either RoA or Jesters because of how much it delays auto attacking and I prefer PFT because you can autoattack while doing the chain.</p><p>So your advice is pretty much terrible.</p>

[Warrant]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Warrant@Nektulos wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Are you?</p><p>With repeated stabbings and endline AGI, your CAs fire so fast that hesitating for an AA to fire off, unless you are a micro-managing guru, will most likely result in a loss of dps. Furthermore, many newer assassins are interupting concealment chains to allow an aa which is always a mistake. This is an ancient argument among Assassins/scouts. We are not Rogues who benefit greatly from timed aa.</p></blockquote><p>My auto attack regularly crits for 19k+ damage.  My average auto attack hit is 14k~.  I raid with 27% flurry.  I raid with 100% double attack, and between 28% and 48% AE auto attack.</p><p>Timing auto attack is essential as an assassin if you want to parse well in SF.  Any assassin who doesn't do it, is silly.  I actually hate using concealment without either RoA or Jesters because of how much it delays auto attacking and I prefer PFT because you can autoattack while doing the chain.</p><p>So your advice is pretty much terrible.</p></blockquote><p>I dunno Gaige. I may need to look at this closer as of SF I have always appreciated your input on these and other forums. You seem like a very knowledgable player and no BS. Is there some mechanic that has made AA a closer item to watch. I do know that it makes up the majority of our dps despite some monstrous CAs but I have never seen any serious delays to it other than concealment chains or perhaps a late macro.</p><p>My raid percentages pretty closely mirror yours if not a tad bit better, however, for me to obcesse over the timer in my rotation seems like it would really screw with me. I am always open to expanding my views though.</p>

[-=Hoss=-]

<p>for AA timers out there, how many extra Auto attacks do you think you get by going through the trouble.  I'd wager on trash its usually zero.  Remember its impossible for us to delay an AA for more than .35 seconds (unless you don't pay attention and use silly things like contrieved weapon or bow attacks).  Or 8 seconds if you use a conceal chain and don't let an AA go off in the middle (which I've been playing with myself lately but it doesn't make me an auto-attack timer)</p><p>Then ask yourself, how many fewer combat arts do you cast due to timing auto-attacks?  That's a little harder to quantify, but I don't believe for a second you are not missing CAs.  You miss more CAs by timing than you miss AAs by not timing just by virtue of the fact that the computer queues your AA's and does it more efificiently than you pressing the CA buttons.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Warrant@Nektulos wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Is there some mechanic that has made AA a closer item to watch. I do know that it makes up the majority of our dps despite some monstrous CAs but I have never seen any serious delays to it other than concealment chains or perhaps a late macro.</p><p>My raid percentages pretty closely mirror yours if not a tad bit better, however, for me to obcesse over the timer in my rotation seems like it would really screw with me. I am always open to expanding my views though.</p></blockquote><p>Mostly the vicious stabbing line which increased our auto attack damage by 24% and the huge amounts of crit bonus and flurry you can get now.  Honestly if you download a UI mod that has the bar and play with it awhile it'll be second nature. The main reason its useful as an assassin is things that take a long time to cast like stalk --> stealth assault or HO macros (if you use them).  While delaying them isn't going to drop your parse by 10k it is something you should try to avoid because the potential of lost damage can be pretty big if you were to do something like crit a flurry with pft up when the mob is under 30% hp.</p><p>While our %s may be the same you will see an improvement to your personal parses by timing your auto attacks, especially if the way you're casting works now is really delaying them.  If it isn't, /shrug, but I assume most players who aren't using the auto attack bar are delaying more autos than they aren't, and over the course of a zonewide that can really add up.</p><p><cite>-=Hoss=- wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>for AA timers out there, how many extra Auto attacks do you think you get by going through the trouble.  I'd wager on trash its usually zero.  Remember its impossible for us to delay an AA for more than .35 seconds (unless you don't pay attention and use silly things like contrieved weapon or bow attacks).  Or 8 seconds if you use a conceal chain and don't let an AA go off in the middle (which I've been playing with myself lately but it doesn't make me an auto-attack timer)</p><p>Then ask yourself, how many fewer combat arts do you cast due to timing auto-attacks?  That's a little harder to quantify, but I don't believe for a second you are not missing CAs.  You miss more CAs by timing than you miss AAs by not timing just by virtue of the fact that the computer queues your AA's and does it more efificiently than you pressing the CA buttons.</p></blockquote><p>How many of your auto attack swings are just one hit?  Mine are always two hits and they hit for about 10k~  So every time I delay an auto attack, especially at the end of a fight, I'm delaying 20k~ damage, more if that hit were to flurry, even more if that hit were to AE auto on a multi mob encounter.</p><p>As for "silly things like improvised weapon and bow shots" - I use everything I have, and if nothing else is up of course I'm going to use improvised weapon.  The bow shots I don't use as much unless I have to joust, but I still use them.</p><p>Looking at my parse breakdown of MMB auto attack is normally about 2.5k~ of my zonewide, my best parsing CAs are Death Mark, Shadow Step, Death Blow, Offensive Stance and Sinister Strike and the rest of my top 10 are procs. Outside of those CAs all my others account for less than 700 each of my zw parse.</p><p>Looking at my auto attack breakdown flurry caused me to auto 43 more times, plus I doubled every time.  I hit with auto 308 times in 5:24 seconds of combat.</p><p>Sure you <em>may</em> miss some CAs but unless timing autos costs you a concealment chain or a shadow step or a death blow or a death mark; and it shouldn't, I doubt the dps loss will be as noticeable as when not timing it causes you to miss an auto that would've doubled and max flurried while critting for around 10k.</p><p>The point is everyone should time their autos.  There is no reason not to.  With how hard auto attack hits and how much stuff it can proc it ends up accounting for a lot of zonewide damage.</p>