That's impossible! Maybe?

[EverRude]

<p>I'm sure it's happened to everyone that has fought and been killed by their own class. You engage and the, so called, fight is over fast. You look at the logs and see what the other player used to kill you. That's impossible you think. No strange skill was used against you. The other player simply used the same arts and procs you have. Somehow though they seem to have used them at an impossibly fast speed. I was killed by a fellow ranger in front of my fort. I respawned almost immediately and charged right back at him. Considering the damage he was doing I'm sure he was better geared and better skilled than myself. As soon as I was in range (using enervated and remkit belt so 50+ meters) I was hit by 4 different arrow shots and 1 combat art. Not accusing him of doing anything wrong. It just seems impossible. Even with a range advantage, there seems to be no way he can cast that many separate shots in that time. I would love to know how that is done. Is there some raid gear or something out there that makes cast times instant or nearly so?I'm willing to accept it may have been lag combined with better range, better gear and better skill. Whatever it was I wanna know how to do it too. Btw that guy topped the parse on a long Ganak fight. Doubled the next highest parse (an SK I believe).Anyone else run into this? Your same class seemed to use abilities impossibly fast?Ofcourse I hold to the possibility I'm really really bad and need to L2P.</p>

[Armawk]

<p>I always just assume I dont know stuff. My wiz was owned by one who's ball of flame was consistently doing massively more damage than seems possible. Like 1.5 times more than his ice comet.</p><p>I cant see how. Someone here now thinks I am a noob for not knowing this I suppose heh</p>

[EverRude]

<p>Well high damage seems more than possible with the current gear possibilities. Potency, crit bonus, and the overcap stat bonus all increase damage more than was possible before. Casting speed I thought was capped at 50%. This includes gear and buff stacking. Would seem impossible to pull off 5 attacks in less time than it takes to cast 1. Unless ofcourse, it was a lag, range, and gear combination that made it seem impossibly fast.</p>

[Banditman]

<p>Cast speed caps at 100% displayed, which cuts the cast time in half.  It's a little convoluted, but there it is.</p>

[EverRude]

<p>I had the number wrong but I was correct in my thinking. I thought the best that could be done was shave half the casting time. Silly me for thinking 50% was half. Still best that could be done is 2 arts in the time to cast one (assuming equal casting times). Since noone is posting that has encounter this ultra-fast-casting I assume what I saw was lag induced.</p>

[Zabom]

<p>I suspect that maybe there is more to it then that for a select few. After seeing a warlock move from the opposite side of ganak to right behind me instantly, i did some research.  I have confirmed the existance of packet hacking programs that can change your run speed as high as you want, or even your x,y,z position in game. I supose it is not a strech that casting speed could be hacked as well or even damage. However, IF this is being done I don't believe it is being done by many people, and those people who are will most likely get caught and banned. The biggest danger IF something like this exists, is that it will make people scream that there is a class imbalance that will get the cheaters class nerfed.</p>

[Dojac]

<p><cite>EverRude wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm sure it's happened to everyone that has fought and been killed by their own class. You engage and the, so called, fight is over fast. You look at the logs and see what the other player used to kill you. That's impossible you think. No strange skill was used against you. The other player simply used the same arts and procs you have. Somehow though they seem to have used them at an impossibly fast speed. I was killed by a fellow ranger in front of my fort. I respawned almost immediately and charged right back at him. Considering the damage he was doing I'm sure he was better geared and better skilled than myself. As soon as I was in range (using enervated and remkit belt so 50+ meters) I was hit by 4 different arrow shots and 1 combat art. Not accusing him of doing anything wrong. It just seems impossible. Even with a range advantage, there seems to be no way he can cast that many separate shots in that time. I would love to know how that is done. Is there some raid gear or something out there that makes cast times instant or nearly so?I'm willing to accept it may have been lag combined with better range, better gear and better skill. Whatever it was I wanna know how to do it too. Btw that guy topped the parse on a long Ganak fight. Doubled the next highest parse (an SK I believe).Anyone else run into this? Your same class seemed to use abilities impossibly fast?Ofcourse I hold to the possibility I'm really really bad and need to L2P.</p></blockquote><p>Most likely the difference is in AA abilities but if you remember what he hit you with it'd help.  He prolly DA off the initial bow hit.  He also could have pivked you up outside of range and turned his autoattack on so when you hit that 50 M line you caught a DA right off the bat.</p>

[Darkonx]

<p>He tabbed you at ~70 meters. He toggled autobow. You passed within that 50 meter mark, and his autobow went off, hitting you, and then double attacking you. He used Searing Shot? Triple Shot? Those are a double, and a triple attack, respectively. With max haste, he then auto attacks you again ~1.5s later, doubling attacking, yet again. This would result in 6-7 arrows, depending on the CA used. Searing Shot is near instant cast. Without logs, that's my best guess. Rangers have some amazingly quick cast abilitys, and it wouldn't be mindblowing to think that he could press as many as 3-4 before you could even target him. Searing Shot, Triple Shot, etc etc could all easily be spammed without you having time to hit a button, if the other ranger is really that good. Sadly, L2P imo.</p><p>Hacking -> Not viable. I wont get into the reasons, but it can't be done.</p>

[EverRude]

<p>I remember what he hit me with. None of the individual shots were out of the ordinary. It's not the amount of damage that was the issue. He proc'd 4 different things in those shots. So he killed me. Kudos to him. I'd just like to know how he fired 5 separate combat arts in, what to me seemed like, 1 cast. I spawned ran toward him. I knew he could kill me cause he managed it several times. I knew he was being attacked when I died so I was hoping he'd be distracted and possibly hurt when I got back. He wasn't. I targetted him as a ran toward him (66% runspeed btw). I turned my auto range as I was about to enter range. Just as I fired automatically upon getting close enough, I was hit for 15k+ damage. Five different CA's plus procs. To me that seems impossible. However if lag was involved it's possible I was in range longer than I thought I was. He fired all those attacks and they merely registered as a simultaneous attack. One other note. A zerker in the match on my team was going for the flag. He had fought through several players to reach the flag. He claimed over voice he had nearly full health when he was "one shotted" by this ranger. I didn't bother to say anything. Noone who knows our class would believe for a second a ranger one shots a tank. It would take a lot of shots. Then at the end of the match I experience this. Now I see why he called it a 1 shot. That's why I ask as well whether there's some gear somewhere that allows casting with virtually no cast time?</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p>Mirigul charm is what owned you</p>

[Darkonx]

<p><cite>EverRude wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I remember what he hit me with. None of the individual shots were out of the ordinary. It's not the amount of damage that was the issue. He proc'd 4 different things in those shots. So he killed me. Kudos to him. I'd just like to know how he fired 5 separate combat arts in, what to me seemed like, 1 cast. I spawned ran toward him. I knew he could kill me cause he managed it several times. I knew he was being attacked when I died so I was hoping he'd be distracted and possibly hurt when I got back. He wasn't. I targetted him as a ran toward him (66% runspeed btw). I turned my auto range as I was about to enter range. Just as I fired automatically upon getting close enough, I was hit for 15k+ damage. Five different CA's plus procs. To me that seems impossible. However if lag was involved it's possible I was in range longer than I thought I was. He fired all those attacks and they merely registered as a simultaneous attack. One other note. A zerker in the match on my team was going for the flag. He had fought through several players to reach the flag. He claimed over voice he had nearly full health when he was "one shotted" by this ranger. I didn't bother to say anything. Noone who knows our class would believe for a second a ranger one shots a tank. It would take a lot of shots. Then at the end of the match I experience this. Now I see why he called it a 1 shot. That's why I ask as well whether there's some gear somewhere that allows casting with virtually no cast time?</p></blockquote><p>WHAT abilitys hit you? No, there is no gear that allows you to use CA's with no cast time. You said procs hit you, those don't have a cast time. Miraguls Charm gives even more range, but, WHAT is it that hit you. Link the logs, and I might be of some help.</p>

[Rocc]

<p>A dirge or troub can augment the same class as you. Casting speed, proc mental/poison damage, casting ranged etc.! Bards have an AA which increases range plus there is gear and arrows that increase range. Then there's conjy fiery proc and a furies Primal Fury spell and Porcipine. If an enemy bard is close enough he is taking away your arcane/elemental mitigation and giving your opposing class a substantial advantage. It really boils to to group make up and buffing your group members. But now you know the importance of buffing your fellow BGers.</p><p>Word to the wise.... most spells in BG will remain area of effect. So dont try to single handedly attempt to take down someone your own class (or any class for that matter) that is standing near their group. Instead, focus on stragglers. Always try to move as a group to ensure all the dps mods, procs and mitigation buffs stay on you.</p><p>Edit - dont forget macro commands. /useability commands that fire multiple CA's while you have jesters cap or other augmentation faster than individually clicking them.</p>

[EverRude]

<p>Miraguls charm is the one that extends combat art range by 10%? I can see that. To an extent. For rangers our auto attack range is slightly longer than most of our ranged combat. So he could begin casting ranged arts before I even reach auto attack range. Still seems like he managed to cast too many shots in the short time it took me to close the distance. If that charm is that good... Nerf it since I don't have one <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Or atleast I hope that guy spends more time on my team.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><img src="http://eq2.xanadu-community.com/images/items/3038.png" width="275" height="468" /></p><p><img src="http://eq2.xanadu-community.com/images/items/3058.jpg" width="281" height="461" /></p>

[Darkonx]

<p><cite>Rocc@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Edit - dont forget macro commands. /useability commands that fire multiple CA's while you have jesters cap or other augmentation faster than individually clicking them.</p></blockquote><p>No. lol.</p>

[EverRude]

<p>Dang it I shoulda posted them this morning. I didn't expect that question. Figured it would be assumed that a ranger would recognize ranger combat arts. I can't recall all 5 by name now. I review my parse logs a lot and triple shot, searing shot, trick shot, inflaming arrow... Etc gets jumbled in my memory. I'll post exactly what he shot me with later once I get home from work to see the log. I don't wanna guess exact names. My only exact memory on reviewing the log lastnight was wondering how he got off 5 arts in that short time. . I'm sure I know which "shots" that hit me were procs or doubles and which were actual casted combat arts. I was hit 10 times, I believe, to total that 15k+ damage. He even proc'd fatal attack and it didn't register as damage on the ACT parse. I assume because I was already dead.Gonna leave myself an out and say this. Though it shocked me that it happened. I wasn't curious till this morning while sitting at work bored what other people thought of it. I tend to make a lot of posts like that. Bored at work. So the out is, my memory of what exactly happened could be faulty. It wouldn't be the first time. Another reason I wouldn't consider posting his name. I didn't make the post to expose a hack or accuse anyone of exploiting. I'm was seriously curious whether it's possible for anyone to do what I remember happening. You guys say it's not possible to cast arts that fast. But that it is possible I am wrong about it being 5 different arts.I'll review the logs and post the the appropriate portion of the log, minus the player's name. If I was wrong I got np posting that too. </p>

[Piccolo]

<p><em>Happens to me all the time in BG's. Just my luck, only happened with 2 diff classes. Ranger and Assassin.</em></p><p><em>Assassin hit me 9 times, all from ranged 5 were procs. Ranger, heh, seriously. everytime, it's like i get 1 shotted.</em></p><p><em>i have over 10k health at level 82. im always spec'd for defense. maxed aa in my defensive buffs like parry and such. i dont parry anything. im running(at 88%) then im dead. combat log show 8 to 10 lines of attacks, half are procs the others are ca's. </em></p><p><em>its not lag, i dont lag. at all. i can run with graphics maxed and i wont lag a bit. If i knew how to post combat logs, they would have been posted awhile ago.</em></p>

[EverRude]

<p>I was wrong. According to the log there was 4 seconds total from the first arrow to the last. I actually resisted 4 other poisons and procs. 12 different things hit me. That's simply viscious.</p><p>Sure seemed instant to me. No really. I'd swear everything hit me at once. But according to the logs I am full of it.</p><p>I can feel somewhat good. According to the log I managed to critically double attack him as soon as I stepped into range of my bow auto attack. And it hit him, for a really sad amount. Unfortunately he resisted nearly everyone of the procs that came with that attack. Not that it would have done me any good. I also apparenly managed to cast a searing shot that missed.</p><p>I just sucked. I got pwnd.</p><p>He is geared. He proc'd Toxic Tempest and Anger of Mynzak in addition to a bunch of the usual suspects.</p><p>I apologize. There was 4 separate attacks btw, not 5. They just happened over a reasonable amount of time (4 secs) considering the range advantage he probably had on me.</p><p>Certainly does teach me to not only look at the log for damage I did, but to look at what others are doing to me.</p>

[Trynt]

<p><cite>EverRude wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I was wrong. According to the log there was 4 seconds total from the first arrow to the last. I actually resisted 4 other poisons and procs. 12 different things hit me. That's simply viscious.</p><p>Sure seemed instant to me. No really. I'd swear everything hit me at once. But according to the logs I am full of it.</p><p>I can feel somewhat good. According to the log I managed to critically double attack him as soon as I stepped into range of my bow auto attack. And it hit him, for a really sad amount. Unfortunately he resisted nearly everyone of the procs that came with that attack. Not that it would have done me any good. I also apparenly managed to cast a searing shot that missed.</p><p>I just sucked. I got pwnd.</p><p>He is geared. He proc'd Toxic Tempest and Anger of Mynzak in addition to a bunch of the usual suspects.</p><p>I apologize. There was 4 separate attacks btw, not 5. They just happened over a reasonable amount of time (4 secs) considering the range advantage he probably had on me.</p><p>Certainly does teach me to not only look at the log for damage I did, but to look at what others are doing to me.</p></blockquote><p>A lot of people would do well to learn from your open-mindedness.  Kudos to you for what sounds like a healthy degree of skepticism tempered by a rational display of data-mining and the strength of character to admit publicly that you have things to learn.  With this disposition, growing through experience is far more likely than not.</p><p>Well done, and good luck to you.</p>

[StaticLex]

<p>lol I love playing my ranger in BG, it smashes face all over the place.</p>

[bRz]

<p><cite>EverRude wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I was wrong. According to the log there was 4 seconds total from the first arrow to the last. I actually resisted 4 other poisons and procs. 12 different things hit me. That's simply viscious.</p><p>Sure seemed instant to me. No really. I'd swear everything hit me at once. But according to the logs I am full of it.</p><p>I can feel somewhat good. According to the log I managed to critically double attack him as soon as I stepped into range of my bow auto attack. And it hit him, for a really sad amount. Unfortunately he resisted nearly everyone of the procs that came with that attack. Not that it would have done me any good. I also apparenly managed to cast a searing shot that missed.</p><p>I just sucked. I got pwnd.</p><p>He is geared. He proc'd Toxic Tempest and Anger of Mynzak in addition to a bunch of the usual suspects.</p><p>I apologize. There was 4 separate attacks btw, not 5. They just happened over a reasonable amount of time (4 secs) considering the range advantage he probably had on me.</p><p>Certainly does teach me to not only look at the log for damage I did, but to look at what others are doing to me.</p></blockquote><p>This can be a rude awakening when it comes to pvp, but you have just learned the first lesson of "PVP Club" Procs in this game make or break PVP. Then you look at a ranger or wizard who has innate slow cast spells/ca's and you have a very high chance of one cast or ca proccing much if not all of what they are wearing for proc gear.</p><p>P.S. run out and get a bunch of torrent and pestilential rain gear, its what all the cool kids are doing.</p><p>Ok and this is may be too much , all the pvp server players might be mad at me for letting out the secret, ditch whatever cloak you are wearing for dps and throw on a justice cloak. Ranger+ justice god cloak is like chocolate and peanut butter.</p>

[Umub]

<p>Are you talking about the Tribunal Diety Cloak called the Cloak of Justice? The proc looks nice, is it worth changing dieties for?</p><ul><span ><li>When Equipped: </li><li>On a successful hostile spell this spell has a chance to cast Gavel of Justice on target of spell. Lasts for 5.0 seconds. The effect will trigger an average of 1.8 times per minute. <ul><li>Stuns target </li><li>Does not affect Epic targets </li></ul> </li><li>On a successful attack this spell has a chance to cast Gavel of Justice on target of attack. Lasts for 5.0 seconds. The effect will trigger an average of 1.8 times per minute. (only primary weapon can trigger) <ul><li>Stuns target </li><li>Does not affect Epic targets </li></ul> </li></span></ul>

[Zabom]

<p><cite>bRz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ok and this is may be too much , all the pvp server players might be mad at me for letting out the secret, ditch whatever cloak you are wearing for dps and throw on a justice cloak. Ranger+ justice god cloak is like chocolate and peanut butter.</p></blockquote><p>yet another example of pvp vs pve server  imbalance. Changing dieties to benefit pvp play is not an option for pve raiders who choose their diety based on what it brings to the raid. Changing dieties is not as easy as using a respec mirror.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>bRz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ok and this is may be too much , all the pvp server players might be mad at me for letting out the secret, ditch whatever cloak you are wearing for dps and throw on a justice cloak. Ranger+ justice god cloak is like chocolate and peanut butter.</p></blockquote><p>yet another example of pvp vs pve server  imbalance. Changing dieties to benefit pvp play is not an option for pve raiders who choose their diety based on what it brings to the raid. Changing dieties is not as easy as using a respec mirror.</p></blockquote><p>You can keep the cloak when you switch back, on top of that, what serious PvE guild actually relies on blessings and miracles anymore...</p>

[AziBam]

<p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>bRz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ok and this is may be too much , all the pvp server players might be mad at me for letting out the secret, ditch whatever cloak you are wearing for dps and throw on a justice cloak. Ranger+ justice god cloak is like chocolate and peanut butter.</p></blockquote><p>yet another example of pvp vs pve server  imbalance. Changing dieties to benefit pvp play is not an option for pve raiders who choose their diety based on what it brings to the raid. Changing dieties is not as easy as using a respec mirror.</p></blockquote><p><< From a PVE server.  I'm usually on the other side of this argument but...those deities are available to all players on both types of servers equally.  Benefits and drawbacks are the same.  If you don't want to change, then don't.  But you shouldn't cry foul on the PVP players who have the item.  If you want it, get it.  PVPers raid too and have to make the same choices we do.</p><p>Btw, unless it's changed in the last few years, you can have a deity cloak from doing the quests and it will still work if you choose not to follow that god any longer.</p><p>Edit: darn I's and E's.  spelled deity wrong and it would have bothered me to no end leaving it that way.</p>

[Zabom]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>bRz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ok and this is may be too much , all the pvp server players might be mad at me for letting out the secret, ditch whatever cloak you are wearing for dps and throw on a justice cloak. Ranger+ justice god cloak is like chocolate and peanut butter.</p></blockquote><p>yet another example of pvp vs pve server  imbalance. Changing dieties to benefit pvp play is not an option for pve raiders who choose their diety based on what it brings to the raid. Changing dieties is not as easy as using a respec mirror.</p></blockquote><p>You can keep the cloak when you switch back, on top of that, what serious PvE guild actually relies on blessings and miracles anymore...</p></blockquote><p>blessings an miracles? none. the buffs gained by god pets? everyone. I only mean to point out that it would be a lot of trouble to change dieties to gain the cloak only to have to change back afterword. In the mean time i will be weaker for raiding....seems kind of selfish.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>bRz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ok and this is may be too much , all the pvp server players might be mad at me for letting out the secret, ditch whatever cloak you are wearing for dps and throw on a justice cloak. Ranger+ justice god cloak is like chocolate and peanut butter.</p></blockquote><p>yet another example of pvp vs pve server  imbalance. Changing dieties to benefit pvp play is not an option for pve raiders who choose their diety based on what it brings to the raid. Changing dieties is not as easy as using a respec mirror.</p></blockquote><p>You can keep the cloak when you switch back, on top of that, what serious PvE guild actually relies on blessings and miracles anymore...</p></blockquote><p>blessings an miracles? none. the buffs gained by god pets? everyone. I only mean to point out that it would be a lot of trouble to change dieties to gain the cloak only to have to change back afterword. In the mean time i will be weaker for raiding....seems kind of selfish.</p></blockquote><p>You think that seems selfish? Really? Wow, I'm not going to post the response I want because I like my posting rights.</p><p>/sarcasm Having to lose your "Good" diety for raiding for ~2 hrs is so much to ask, I totally understand /sarcasmoff</p>

[Zabom]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>bRz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ok and this is may be too much , all the pvp server players might be mad at me for letting out the secret, ditch whatever cloak you are wearing for dps and throw on a justice cloak. Ranger+ justice god cloak is like chocolate and peanut butter.</p></blockquote><p>yet another example of pvp vs pve server  imbalance. Changing dieties to benefit pvp play is not an option for pve raiders who choose their diety based on what it brings to the raid. Changing dieties is not as easy as using a respec mirror.</p></blockquote><p>You can keep the cloak when you switch back, on top of that, what serious PvE guild actually relies on blessings and miracles anymore...</p></blockquote><p>blessings an miracles? none. the buffs gained by god pets? everyone. I only mean to point out that it would be a lot of trouble to change dieties to gain the cloak only to have to change back afterword. In the mean time i will be weaker for raiding....seems kind of selfish.</p></blockquote><p>You think that seems selfish? Really? Wow, I'm not going to post the response I want because I like my posting rights.</p><p>/sarcasm Having to lose your "Good" diety for raiding for ~2 hrs is so much to ask, I totally understand /sarcasmoff</p></blockquote><p>Why ARE you on these forums? Your mentality and desire to escalate every comment into an argument seem to make you more suited to EQ2Flames....and you could say what you want without worring about your posting rights.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p>Because the people that want to water this game into WoW 2.0 so any 13 year old has the equal chance to do what it took Veterns of the game long periods of time to learn, figure out, adjust to, aren't the only ones represented. I don't think that is to bad a reason, how about you?</p>

[Zabom]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Because the people that want to water this game into WoW 2.0 so any 13 year old has the equal chance to do what it took Veterns of the game long periods of time to learn, figure out, adjust to, aren't the only ones represented. I don't think that is to bad a reason, how about you?</p></blockquote><p>Actually that is the exact same reason I am here. I am 44 years old and have been playing this game since launch. I also played EQ1 since launch as well. I have had an uninterupted account with SoE since march 16, 1999. If 11 years doesn't qualify me as a veteran of this game, then I am not sure what will. People who only choose to flame others in a serious discussion about FIXING problems do nothing more then remind me of the people playing WoW. I think we can agree on a few things. Warlocks rift and wizards Ice commit WERE OP. Now All MAGES are [Removed for Content]. Calling for more nerfs is NOT the answer.</p><p>What we are having a hard time agreeing on is what will fix these issues. From MY perspective it will take a substantial increase in damage for mages. But to prevent it going back as it was, removal of spell double attack and perhaps a lower increase in Ice comet and rift would be needed. Also Out right resists should not happen. You have no idea how frustrating it is to have 6 spells in a row resisted. I see that you are a healer. How would it make you feel if 6 heals in a row didn't land on the tank? Whats more, for a wizard, those 6 spells represent 12 seconds of cast time. In combat 12 seconds is an eternity.</p><p>Now if you are willing to listen to other people explain the problems and offer legitimate input instead of l2p or quit the qq, then you might be a helpful part of this discussion. In return, people might also listen to you and not just defensively assume that you are guilty of the same munchkin attitude of which you accuse others.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Because the people that want to water this game into WoW 2.0 so any 13 year old has the equal chance to do what it took Veterns of the game long periods of time to learn, figure out, adjust to, aren't the only ones represented. I don't think that is to bad a reason, how about you?</p></blockquote><p>Actually that is the exact same reason I am here. I am 44 years old and have been playing this game since launch. I also played EQ1 since launch as well. I have had an uninterupted account with SoE since march 16, 1999. If 11 years doesn't qualify me as a veteran of this game, then I am not sure what will. People who only choose to flame others in a serious discussion about FIXING problems do nothing more then remind me of the people playing WoW. I think we can agree on a few things. Warlocks rift and wizards Ice commit WERE OP. Now All MAGES are [Removed for Content]. Calling for more nerfs is NOT the answer.</p><p>What we are having a hard time agreeing on is what will fix these issues. From MY perspective it will take a substantial increase in damage for mages. But to prevent it going back as it was, removal of spell double attack and perhaps a lower increase in Ice comet and rift would be needed. Also Out right resists should not happen. You have no idea how frustrating it is to have 6 spells in a row resisted. I see that you are a healer. How would it make you feel if 6 heals in a row didn't land on the tank? Whats more, for a wizard, those 6 spells represent 12 seconds of cast time. In combat 12 seconds is an eternity.</p><p>Now if you are willing to listen to other people explain the problems and offer legitimate input instead of l2p or quit the qq, then you might be a helpful part of this discussion. In return, people might also listen to you and not just defensively assume that you are guilty of the same munchkin attitude of which you accuse others.</p></blockquote><p>I have offered solutions to most of the issues, you casters dont' like them and some argue for illogical things.</p>

[Zabom]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Because the people that want to water this game into WoW 2.0 so any 13 year old has the equal chance to do what it took Veterns of the game long periods of time to learn, figure out, adjust to, aren't the only ones represented. I don't think that is to bad a reason, how about you?</p></blockquote><p>Actually that is the exact same reason I am here. I am 44 years old and have been playing this game since launch. I also played EQ1 since launch as well. I have had an uninterupted account with SoE since march 16, 1999. If 11 years doesn't qualify me as a veteran of this game, then I am not sure what will. People who only choose to flame others in a serious discussion about FIXING problems do nothing more then remind me of the people playing WoW. I think we can agree on a few things. Warlocks rift and wizards Ice commit WERE OP. Now All MAGES are [Removed for Content]. Calling for more nerfs is NOT the answer.</p><p>What we are having a hard time agreeing on is what will fix these issues. From MY perspective it will take a substantial increase in damage for mages. But to prevent it going back as it was, removal of spell double attack and perhaps a lower increase in Ice comet and rift would be needed. Also Out right resists should not happen. You have no idea how frustrating it is to have 6 spells in a row resisted. I see that you are a healer. How would it make you feel if 6 heals in a row didn't land on the tank? Whats more, for a wizard, those 6 spells represent 12 seconds of cast time. In combat 12 seconds is an eternity.</p><p>Now if you are willing to listen to other people explain the problems and offer legitimate input instead of l2p or quit the qq, then you might be a helpful part of this discussion. In return, people might also listen to you and not just defensively assume that you are guilty of the same munchkin attitude of which you accuse others.</p></blockquote><p>I have offered solutions to most of the issues, you casters dont' like them and some argue for illogical things.</p></blockquote><p>....and some of us argued because we didn't want to create the exact situation we are in now. You will never here me say that heals are OP. I won't do that, because i have very little experiance as a healer. I also don't say that scouts are OP even though when I play my brig I have ALWAYS been able to own mages. Nor will I complain that tanks are OP even though a great many people say they are. I WILL however defend my own class from what i consider to be unfair nerfs. I don't seek an advantage, only a closer balance. was it imbalanced before the resist fix? yes it was. but it is even more imbalanced now, in the opposite direction. I don't believe there will ever be true balance in this game. I do believe that it was close before the bug fix and i believe that it can be close again. The 15% spell increase is a step in the right direction. I also am fine with taking small steps as it prevents overcompensation. It is, however,  my opinion (based on years of wizard playing experiance) that 15% will not be enough to create any semblance of balance, and I have a right to express that opinion.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p>And I will say, With years of PvP experience, If you think it was close to balanced before the fix you are crazy. Leveling whole groups in seconds is not right. and was never close to right. Now they do too little damage yes, but with a 15% increase it every well could increase damage to what it should be for a sorc, but chanters and summoners need more</p>

[Zabom]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And I will say, With years of PvP experience, If you think it was close to balanced before the fix you are crazy. Leveling whole groups in seconds is not right. and was never close to right. Now they do too little damage yes, but with a 15% increase it every well could increase damage to what it should be for a sorc, but chanters and summoners need more</p></blockquote><p>perhaps that should have been worded as closer instead of close.  And btw I have seen whole group lvld in seconds by other classes besides sorcerers, and I am quite sure you have as well.</p><p>I have never leveled whole groups in seconds. That experiance most likely came from a warlock. In fact even if i went full dps spec with 250 AAs (an absolutely stupid thing to do as you lose all survivability) I very seldom one shotted anyone. It may have seemed that way because I would time my big attacks to hit when players were below 60% and debuffed. the truth is however that if I were to just cast my biggest nuke, ice comet (also refered to as the "i win button " by many) it would do less then 25% of most players health. Yes, this spell killed many people., but not because I just ran out and cast it. It took planning and timing. That planning and timing actually comes from experiance. If i lead with ice commit and i get an opponant down to 50%, what do I have to get him the rest of the way before the healer heals him? nothing. Thats why good wizzys dont play that way. Instead we hit them with the small stuff and dots first and save the spike damage for a finishing blow. It is quite insulting to here people say we have an "I win button" when they have no idea of what really went into that kill.</p>

[Timjan]

<p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>bRz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ok and this is may be too much , all the pvp server players might be mad at me for letting out the secret, ditch whatever cloak you are wearing for dps and throw on a justice cloak. Ranger+ justice god cloak is like chocolate and peanut butter.</p></blockquote><p>yet another example of pvp vs pve server  imbalance. Changing dieties to benefit pvp play is not an option for pve raiders who choose their diety based on what it brings to the raid. Changing dieties is not as easy as using a respec mirror.</p></blockquote><p>Pvp vs pve server imbalance? Are you serious?People on pvp servers raid too you know. If you dont want to spend the 3-4 hours it takes to change diety, get the tribunal cloak, and get your old diety back it's fine by me. But dont claim that players on pvp servers have an advantage over you because you're lazy.</p>

[kaeleth]

<p>Similar thing has happened to me in bg.  Was me vs a warlok.  He basically 1 shotted me.  I looked at my logs and he fired off rift, distortion, and a couple other spells within a sec.  Was kinda wondering if this was some kind of hack or perhaps server lag.  Hopefully this would be something being looked into.</p>

[avow]

<p>I;m just laughing at some of you saying you can't hack the code. Or that a 10% augmentation allows multiple use macros.  I leave the raid and personal channels (yep, they exist) on while doing hundreds and hundreds of BG's. Some of the loud mouthed young braggarts go into detail about what web sites they get their 'macro's and 'mods' (hacks) and what they do and how to spot them on other players.  Some of the hacks have been reported and nothing has been done yet or can be done.  Speed hacks where we are told their is an upper limit on speed and watching avatars blast through it again and again and even hearing others tell you what the hack is.  Watching instant teleportation with avatars that don't have that spell do it. </p><p> Targeting and 'wall pass through" hacks that allow arrows and spells that normally cannot pass through walls to pass through walls. Targeting hacks that give huge lengths on your 'mouse hand' so you can stand many lengths away and still 'grab' the item.  There are hacks a lot of players use which show the  movement dots of everyone, including your enemy, on the field......and can target them personally throughout the game.  A hack to pick up 'private' raid and group channels to read and hear the enemy. </p><p>Go ahead. Say they don't exist. I don't use them and no longer care.  Maybe Soe fixed them by now or not.  I will continue to die many, many times while never being afk or hiding in the respawn sector because i am too stupid to know what i am doing or to put on the 'macros' and hack mods. Anway, i will get my uber BG gear and move on....if the game ever puts a workable BG back up.</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zabom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>bRz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ok and this is may be too much , all the pvp server players might be mad at me for letting out the secret, ditch whatever cloak you are wearing for dps and throw on a justice cloak. Ranger+ justice god cloak is like chocolate and peanut butter.</p></blockquote><p>yet another example of pvp vs pve server  imbalance. Changing dieties to benefit pvp play is not an option for pve raiders who choose their diety based on what it brings to the raid. Changing dieties is not as easy as using a respec mirror.</p></blockquote><p>You can keep the cloak when you switch back, on top of that, what serious PvE guild actually relies on blessings and miracles anymore...</p></blockquote><p>blessings an miracles? none. the buffs gained by god pets? everyone. I only mean to point out that it would be a lot of trouble to change dieties to gain the cloak only to have to change back afterword. In the mean time i will be weaker for raiding....seems kind of selfish.</p></blockquote><p>Diety cloaks are a level 65 quest, with 4 lower level quests before that. For a level 90 player your talking about the time it takes to travel to do the quests. You don't need help to complete the whole thing, especially if your equipped enough to start raiding.</p><p>To go back, all you have to do is drop the new diety, and accept the old diety back. And that's it. You've lost your status and if you want miracles you need to sacrifice a lot of gear to get it back. But if all your after is the diety pets (for that big +30 stats?) more power to ya.</p><p>If your so busy raiding that you can't afford to take a day off...why are you worried about a BG advantage? Your raid gear should be enough of an edge!</p>