Torrent - is it really suppost to do 20-50 percent of peoples parses?

[Somatic]

<p>That's what it's doing. </p><p>It's fine if it is intended just seems odd this proc can do more dmg than multipe mage characters combined without it.</p><p>i.e., 1 mage with 2 torrent procs can do more damage than 2-3 other mages.</p><p>1 beserker with a few torrent procs can do five times the damage of a mage without torrent proc.</p><p>etc.</p>

[Somatic]

<p>Pestilant Rain also does crazy percentages of peoples parses.</p><p>Just seems odd procs do more damage than all damage spells combined in classes.</p><p>All dps in the end will just get as many Torrent / pestilant rain procs as possible.  -- procs are what makes dps not the classes themselves -- seems kinda funny way to balance a game.</p>

[Valind]

<p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=476543" target="_blank">Clicky!</a></p>

[Orthureon]

<p>I agree Fritz, these procs are out of hand. My buddy that plays a Paladin parses crazy high for his class, mainly because of Torrent and his other proc gear.</p>

[Avirodar]

<p><cite>Valindor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=476543" target="_blank">Clicky!</a></p></blockquote><p>Valindor, your thread was a fail because you clearly do not know why the procs were disabled in BGs, and what is happening in the future.This thread is right on the ball. An easy and effective solution would be to make Torrent and Pestilential Rain only be a single target damage proc in BGs.</p>

[Gaige]

<p>If they nerf any of my PvE gear because of BGs that will be the end.</p>

[Cigam]

<p>Hmm I have 2 items with the Pestilance rain proc (I and II) and it does maybe 10% of my damage if I am lucky.  Not sure what numbers you are seeing tbh</p>

[Darkonx]

<p>One item doesn't do that much DPS. Proc increasers+ae procs do a lot of damage. They were intended to do, a lot of damage. If you nerf procs then it will essentially be a boost to healers.</p>

[Avirodar]

<p><cite>Cigam@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hmm I have 2 items with the Pestilance rain proc (I and II) and it does maybe 10% of my damage if I am lucky.  Not sure what numbers you are seeing tbh</p></blockquote><p>The current game mechanics significantly favor the AE tank type classes for triggering the torrent and pestilential procs in BG gameplay. They live longer, get deeper in the thick of it, and will make an awful lot more attacks in a match than you have a chance of competing with.Torrent and Pestilental Rain should not be doing anywhere close to the damage as they are in BGs, especially for tanks. The procs can be changed in a way that only affects BGs, and not normal play on PVE.  Easy solution.How the PVP players (as a whole, not a vocal minority) feel about torrent and pestilental procs on PVP servers, I dont know. I do not care what happens on PVP servers, but what happens on BG servers does influence me.</p>

[Dojac]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If they nerf any of my PvE gear because of BGs that will be the end.</p></blockquote><p>uh they did with toughness.</p>

[Xanrn]

<p>Great more whining about torrent.</p><p>What the hell is this Tanks doing too much damage bullcrap?</p><p>How many Torrent and Pest-Rain items are there, and how many people have multiples?</p><p>Not many and Not Many.</p><p>Yes if I parse PvP torrent SOMETIMES does 20% of my damage, which isn't bloody hard considering my auto-attack does like 300dps thanks to all the wards, mit and dmg reduction.</p><p>There is nothing broken about Torrent or Pest-Rain as seen by the hundreds of times it fails to win matches.</p><p>It does not have unlimited range and only hits a max of 6.</p><p>And its not like healers can't handle it.</p><p>Unless you can proove that Torrent wins matches or single handely destroys groups, its not broken.</p><p>Blasting peoples/groups for 10-30k is broken.</p><p>Hitting people a couple a times a fight for <3000 which can be resisted, mitgated, warded, healed is not.</p><p>Show some evidence that they are massively overpowered procs and not easily taken care of by the healers.</p><p>Yesterday during a 15 minute Smugglers match my torrent pants hit 54 times so lets be generous and say i hit 3 people average every time, thats 27 times it procced in 15 minutes, oooh so broken. Its proccing less than 2 times a minute...</p><p>Oh wait thats what it says, excellent.</p><p>Also you seem to be suggesting encounter procs are broken because Crusader/Berzerkers are broken and everyone should suffer because of that.</p>

[Crismorn]

<p>I dont see how anyone can argue for an item doing this much % of someone's damage, its obviously broken.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I dont see how anyone can argue for an item doing this much % of someone's damage, its obviously broken.</p></blockquote><p>We actually agree!</p>

[bRz]

<p><cite>Ummudien@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Great more whining about torrent.</p><p>What the hell is this Tanks doing too much damage bullcrap?</p><p><strong><span style="font-size: medium;">How many Torrent and Pest-Rain items are there, and how many people have multiples?</span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-size: medium;">Not many and Not Many.</span></strong></p><p>Yes if I parse PvP torrent SOMETIMES does 20% of my damage, which isn't bloody hard considering my auto-attack does like 300dps thanks to all the wards, mit and dmg reduction.</p><p>There is nothing broken about Torrent or Pest-Rain as seen by the hundreds of times it fails to win matches.</p><p>It does not have unlimited range and only hits a max of 6.</p><p>And its not like healers can't handle it.</p><p>Unless you can proove that Torrent wins matches or single handely destroys groups, its not broken.</p><p>Blasting peoples/groups for 10-30k is broken.</p><p>Hitting people a couple a times a fight for <3000 which can be resisted, mitgated, warded, healed is not.</p><p>Show some evidence that they are massively overpowered procs and not easily taken care of by the healers.</p><p>Yesterday during a 15 minute Smugglers match my torrent pants hit 54 times so lets be generous and say i hit 3 people average every time, thats 27 times it procced in 15 minutes, oooh so broken. Its proccing less than 2 times a minute...</p><p>Oh wait thats what it says, excellent.</p><p>Also you seem to be suggesting encounter procs are broken because Crusader/Berzerkers are broken and everyone should suffer because of that.</p></blockquote><p>Why do so many people insist that things aren't broken because only a few people have them?</p><p>By this logic one could say that there is an item on the server that will instakill everyone in that zone, however since there is only one person on the whole server that can have this item then it is totally within reason and should not be adjusted or removed.</p><p>and I am not sure what you are doing wrong, but on the brawlers that I have grouped with the torrent proc on their legs is doing at least 30% of their outgoing damage.</p>

[Valind]

<p><cite>Avirodar@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Valindor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=476543" target="_blank">Clicky!</a></p></blockquote><p>Valindor, your thread was a fail because you clearly do not know why the procs were disabled in BGs, and what is happening in the future.This thread is right on the ball. An easy and effective solution would be to make Torrent and Pestilential Rain only be a single target damage proc in BGs.</p></blockquote><p>They were removed from BGs because clueless bluebies claimed that the procs were not available to them. This is blatantly untrue. Every single proc that was disabled is available somewhere from PvE content available to everyone.</p><p>Those procs previously disabled are being given to everyone through BGs and the PvP versions are being re-enabled. I am aware of whats happening. This was all anounced AFTER I made that thread though.</p><p>You realise ofcourse that those anouncements were not made until AFTER I started that thread. Which means when I typed that post, there was no word of those procs being reactivated. I still stand by the posts I made AFTER the announcements:</p><p><cite>Valindor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The post has nothing to do with who has access to the procs. This post is to address the fact that PvE-based procs are stupidly powerful when put into a PvP setting.</p></blockquote><p>Which is true.</p>

[Orthureon]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If they nerf any of my PvE gear because of BGs that will be the end.</p></blockquote><p>Hmm sounds like you could possibly have the same thing occur that happened to most of the PVP gear in BGs. Sucks doesn't it?</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Orthureon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hmm sounds like you could possibly have the same thing occur that happened to most of the PVP gear in BGs. Sucks doesn't it?</p></blockquote><p>Not even remotely the same.  PvE is PvE.</p>

[LardLord]

<p>There's already not enough damage in BGs since the resist change.  Maybe procs shouldn't be as important as they are now (most I've seen is 7% from one type of proc personally, so not completely sold on your numbers here), but just fixing procs without adjusting heals (or something...) will just hurt BGs.  We need more damage, not less.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=476161" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=476161</a></p><p>Granted that was pre resists nerf, but still.</p>

[Naggasaki]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Orthureon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hmm sounds like you could possibly have the same thing occur that happened to most of the PVP gear in BGs. Sucks doesn't it?</p></blockquote><p>Not even remotely the same.  PvE is PvE.</p></blockquote><p>Ok. I'm seriously laughing here. Fail logic is fail? PvP (no matter what some naggy players claim about BG's) is PvP.</p>

[Valind]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Orthureon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hmm sounds like you could possibly have the same thing occur that happened to most of the PVP gear in BGs. Sucks doesn't it?</p></blockquote><p>Not even remotely the same.  PvE is PvE.</p></blockquote><p>Then you wont mind at all when your PVE gear doesn't proc anymore in PVP. Afterall, PVE is not PVP.</p>

[Falcogen]

<p>my wizard has 3 torrent procs so please nerf that aswell. It's only fair after all.</p><p>Please nerf the avatar charm lavastorm aswell and the heal that crits off the neutral avatar charms bonus</p>

[lollipop]

<p><cite>Valindor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Orthureon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hmm sounds like you could possibly have the same thing occur that happened to most of the PVP gear in BGs. Sucks doesn't it?</p></blockquote><p>Not even remotely the same.  PvE is PvE.</p></blockquote><p>Then you wont mind at all when your PVE gear doesn't proc anymore in PVP. Afterall, PVE is not PVP.</p></blockquote><p>No, he wont care. He does not do BG, does not like BG and wants them to fail. His point was if BG/PVP effect his PVE game then this game is over for him. He does not want PVE geared nefed IN PVE due to people crying about PVP. Hope that clears it up for you.</p>

[Kyaaadaa]

<p>Too much work for too few people to continuously try to keep PvE and PvP separate. Welcome to post BG.</p><p>Staying on topic tho, I agree that procs are not only out of control, but really don't get my vote for the theme of the expansion. I understand that the proc gear was created from the standpoint that they wanted to remove set bonuses from the scene, creating a variety of armor and jewelry that would increase a person's damage without overloading the blue and green stats on a piece of gear. However...</p><p>A few downsides I've seen is that 1: procs are not constant. With a 6 set bonus from wizard's T8 PvP armor, I saw 10% base damage increase... every spell I cast recieved 10% base damage increase. A proc that says 2.0 times a minute on one of my hostile spells I'll recieve an additional x amount of damage does not and cannot equate to the same when that damage is spread out over multiple spells. Spike damage from procs makes a DPS chart look more like jagged teeth than a roller coaster effect.</p><p>2: The random number generator used to determine when your procs go off. With ability modifier and potency, I don't have to wonder when my parse is going to spike to the point where I need back off on nukes, I know that Ice Comet is a hard hitter, switch to DoTs and lower damage spells until my hate has decreased. With multiiple procs, however, I could toss the same Ice Comet, recieve no procs, then toss something harmless like a Solar Flare, have all of my procs go off, and rip hate. Thank you? Or, for the other extreme end, I could go an entire fight burning spells like firecrackers to have none of my procs trigger, resulting in a horrible parse. Thank you again?</p><p>Bottom line: I liked the set bonuses with a few pieces of proc jewelry, a few weapons such as epic/myth, and MAYBE an armor slot or two, but a proc on just about everything can get hairy for bad proc times, create overbalanced damage numbers, or lousy parses due to non-triggering procs.</p>

[Somatic]

<p>The point of this post is not really to call for a nerf.  As stated if this is intended then fine.  It makes pvp only about damage and nothing else but if thats the way they want pvp/bgs to go -- fine thats a vaiable idea.  I think it's bad but I can do other stuff so whatever.  SoE should just make it known that is their point - to make pvp/bg all about mass damage and nothing else.</p><p>The problem is simple tho, casters should be the ones [Removed for Content] off about these procs ....</p><p>why?</p><p>Right now it's not a huge deal, you only see people who have invested a lot of time into getting the procs doing silly damage. The big issue with it is that it does not matter what class you are.  If you have these procs you go from ok dps to insane dps.  Do you get it?  No matter what class you are. </p><p>Healers/Tanks/ gain the most from these procs.  It enables them to go from their role to all roles. </p><p>If they allow damage procs to work like this, over time it will mean full groups of 6, with over 20 items that proc just these things.  Healing will become almost irrlevant.  All that will matter is how many AOE attacks you have to proc the items the most.</p><p>I've encoutered only a few groups who see this strategy.  They don't even have half their groups 40 percent equiped yet.</p><p>In the end you will see each memeber with 4 torrent procs and 4 pestient rain procs each on average.  That's 48 times two per minute which is 96 aoe procs going off every minute - which is a LOW estimate.  Of course they won't go off this much because people they are attacking will MELT no matter how many healers they have.</p><p>Is this a huge problem now?  NO.  Will it become one as the xpac gets older and people really want to value their BG ranking - YES.</p><p>Casters should be the most [Removed for Content] about these procs which is why I don't understand their position at all.  If the items were CASTER ONLY then i would understand their position totally and I doubt I would of even made this post.  The problem is the procs are usable by all classes. </p><p>People just don't realize how bad this will be in a few months.</p>

[Darkonx]

<p><cite>Fritzzz@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The point of this post is not really to call for a nerf.  As stated if this is intended then fine.  It makes pvp only about damage and nothing else but if thats the way they want pvp/bgs to go -- fine thats a vaiable idea.  I think it's bad but I can do other stuff so whatever.  SoE should just make it known that is their point - to make pvp/bg all about mass damage and nothing else.</p><p>The problem is simple tho, casters should be the ones [Removed for Content] off about these procs ....</p><p>why?</p><p>Right now it's not a huge deal, you only see people who have invested a lot of time into getting the procs doing silly damage. The big issue with it is that it does not matter what class you are.  If you have these procs you go from ok dps to insane dps.  Do you get it?  No matter what class you are. </p><p>Healers/Tanks/ gain the most from these procs.  It enables them to go from their role to all roles. </p><p>If they allow damage procs to work like this, over time it will mean full groups of 6, with over 20 items that proc just these things.  Healing will become almost irrlevant.  All that will matter is how many AOE attacks you have to proc the items the most.</p><p>I've encoutered only a few groups who see this strategy.  They don't even have half their groups 40 percent equiped yet.</p><p>In the end you will see each memeber with 4 torrent procs and 4 pestient rain procs each on average.  That's 48 times two per minute which is 96 aoe procs going off every minute - which is a LOW estimate.  Of course they won't go off this much because people they are attacking will MELT no matter how many healers they have.</p><p>Is this a huge problem now?  NO.  Will it become one as the xpac gets older and people really want to value their BG ranking - YES.</p><p>Casters should be the most [Removed for Content] about these procs which is why I don't understand their position at all.  If the items were CASTER ONLY then i would understand their position totally and I doubt I would of even made this post.  The problem is the procs are usable by all classes. </p><p>People just don't realize how bad this will be in a few months.</p></blockquote><p>There are two pest rain items wearable by everyone. Scouts/tanks have torrent on their set pants. Other than that, there is a sword. Your numbers are extremely exaggerated as to how many of these people can get.</p><p>EDIT: There is also a sword/ear from hardmode mobs, that maybe 1-2 guilds per server can kill.</p>

[Somatic]

<p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Fritzzz@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote></blockquote><p>There are two pest rain items wearable by everyone. Scouts/tanks have torrent on their set pants. Other than that, there is a sword. Your numbers are extremely exaggerated as to how many of these people can get.</p><p>EDIT: There is also a sword/ear from hardmode mobs, that maybe 1-2 guilds per server can kill.</p></blockquote><p>Since they are going to release more raids and heroic content this xpac I'm assuming they will copy / paste item effects.</p><p>I'm assuming there are more as well from mobs not  yet killed.</p><p>-even having each member wearing just 4 aoe procs with such high damage each is insane damage y ou know.  So even if i halfed my numbers i'm pretty sure the result would be the same.</p><p>Like i said it's fine if SOE wants the game to be like this.  I'll just start bidding my dkp on torrent/pest rain proc gear as a healer and go full dps mode.  -- if soe makes healers pointless in bgs the only choice is to go dps instead.  These aoe effects will making the game all about damage not about healing.</p><p>I'm sure my guild will be killing those hard mobs you talk about, I'm pretty confident  i could get at least 6 aoe procs.</p>

[Darkonx]

<p><cite>Fritzzz@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Fritzzz@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote></blockquote><p>There are two pest rain items wearable by everyone. Scouts/tanks have torrent on their set pants. Other than that, there is a sword. Your numbers are extremely exaggerated as to how many of these people can get.</p><p>EDIT: There is also a sword/ear from hardmode mobs, that maybe 1-2 guilds per server can kill.</p></blockquote><p>Since they are going to release more raids and heroic content this xpac I'm assuming they will copy / paste item effects.</p><p>I'm assuming there are more as well from mobs not  yet killed.</p><p>-even having each member wearing just 4 aoe procs with such high damage each is insane damage y ou know.  So even if i halfed my numbers i'm pretty sure the result would be the same.</p><p>Like i said it's fine if SOE wants the game to be like this.<strong><span style="font-size: x-small;">  I'll just start bidding my dkp on torrent/pest rain proc gear as a healer and go full dps mode</span></strong>.  -- if soe makes healers pointless in bgs the only choice is to go dps instead.  These aoe effects will making the game all about damage not about healing.</p><p>I'm sure my guild will be killing those hard mobs you talk about, I'm pretty confident  i could get at least 6 aoe procs.</p></blockquote><p>No. You could get the ultra-rare pest rain wrist from cella. You could get the pest rain charm from the x2. You could probably even get the tank pants from Tox. You can't use the torrent sword, nor the pest rain sword however. Not sure if the ear is fighter/scout only.</p><p>EDIT: I'm assuming you're a healer, based on the bolded section.</p>

[Crismorn]

<p>What Fritzzz said is true, as an Inquis with the way Torrent works right now I would rather have that for bg's then the ward proc legs.</p><p>Losing ~60 Wisdom wont keep me awake at night</p>

[Somatic]

<p>legs are already going for 5dkp. so they are trival to get.</p><p>There is a ranged / secondary item that has torrent II or III on it from hard mode mob in palace.  Sure there are more not yet found and some not mentioned. Sure there will be more released with new raid zone and heroic content.</p><p>Allowing procs to do so much percentage of dps and having it so all classes can use it....is horrible.</p><p>People bring up heal procs as a counter point to this - the thing is those heal procs are for healers only or if say a mage did use it a heal proc item or a tank -- they gain very little if anything they are punished for using it (no dmg proc).  The thing with these damage procs is totally different:  they make ALL players dps increase dramatically.  That is a massive difference.  If the procs only increased mage damage dramatically it would be different, tho granted even that could be abused (a group with all casters - assuming dmg output was so great nothing could have a chance to heal through it at all - would be broken).</p><p>As stated, the dps classes (mages esp) are the ones who should be [Removed for Content] about this. </p><p>I should in fact be happy and just collect as many aoe dmg procs as possible and laugh all the way to the dps parse -- tanks are doing this already they love it.</p><p>Unfortunatly tho I think also over time everyone would move to this strategy....and it would make bgs very dull and broken.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Fritzzz@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>In the end you will see each memeber with 4 torrent procs and 4 pestient rain procs each on average. </p></blockquote><p>Name the 8 items.</p>

[Darkonx]

<p><cite>Fritzzz@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>legs are already going for 5dkp. so they are trival to get.</p><p>There is a ranged / secondary item that has torrent II or III on it from hard mode mob in palace.  Sure there are more not yet found and some not mentioned. Sure there will be more released with new raid zone and heroic content.</p><p>Allowing procs to do so much percentage of dps and having it so all classes can use it....is horrible.</p><p>People bring up heal procs as a counter point to this - the thing is those heal procs are for healers only or if say a mage did use it a heal proc item or a tank -- they gain very little if anything they are punished for using it (no dmg proc).  The thing with these damage procs is totally different:  they make ALL players dps increase dramatically.  That is a massive difference.  If the procs only increased mage damage dramatically it would be different, tho granted even that could be abused (a group with all casters - assuming dmg output was so great nothing could have a chance to heal through it at all - would be broken).</p><p>As stated, the dps classes (mages esp) are the ones who should be [Removed for Content] about this. </p><p>I should in fact be happy and just collect as many aoe dmg procs as possible and laugh all the way to the dps parse -- tanks are doing this already they love it.</p><p>Unfortunatly tho I think also over time everyone would move to this strategy....and it would make bgs very dull and broken.</p></blockquote><p>I do not think it is nearly as big of an issue as you are making out of it. They are extremely good. Both PVE and PVP can get them. They do not do massive single target damage, so they are easily healed through. They parse high because they're AE, but they aren't actually 'killing' people. Removing damage procs is a bad idea, especially considering how hard it is to people already.</p>

[Somatic]

<p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I do not think it is nearly as big of an issue as you are making out of it. They are extremely good. Both PVE and PVP can get them. They do not do massive single target damage, so they are easily healed through. They parse high because they're AE, but they aren't actually 'killing' people. Removing damage procs is a bad idea, especially considering how hard it is to people already.</p></blockquote><p>You just have not fought groups yet setup to abuse it, only a few are going around now doing so prob because they don't want it nerfed for season one bg -- they are saving it for season one domination.   </p><p>Once you do you will see they are not easily healed through at all -- it's crazy damage when the whole group focuses on these effects.  Right now people are still gearing up.  As more and more people obtain these items and then make groups specifically around these items...it will be a comedy I guess.</p>

[Roald]

<p>A friend of mine got his first AoE proc item, the charm from vig x2 today. We went and did a gears to test it out, and it did 13% of his dps.</p><p>These items are clearly overpowered. I personally have two torrent procs and one pest rain, and I still think they are overpowered. When you add in AE autoattack into the mix, you see these procs doing up to 60% of someones parse. How anyone can defend that just boggles my mind, it truely does.</p>

[Enoe]

<p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Fritzzz@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>legs are already going for 5dkp. so they are trival to get.</p><p>There is a ranged / secondary item that has torrent II or III on it from hard mode mob in palace.  Sure there are more not yet found and some not mentioned. Sure there will be more released with new raid zone and heroic content.</p><p>Allowing procs to do so much percentage of dps and having it so all classes can use it....is horrible.</p><p>People bring up heal procs as a counter point to this - the thing is those heal procs are for healers only or if say a mage did use it a heal proc item or a tank -- they gain very little if anything they are punished for using it (no dmg proc).  The thing with these damage procs is totally different:  they make ALL players dps increase dramatically.  That is a massive difference.  If the procs only increased mage damage dramatically it would be different, tho granted even that could be abused (a group with all casters - assuming dmg output was so great nothing could have a chance to heal through it at all - would be broken).</p><p>As stated, the dps classes (mages esp) are the ones who should be [Removed for Content] about this. </p><p>I should in fact be happy and just collect as many aoe dmg procs as possible and laugh all the way to the dps parse -- tanks are doing this already they love it.</p><p>Unfortunatly tho I think also over time everyone would move to this strategy....and it would make bgs very dull and broken.</p></blockquote><p>I do not think it is nearly as big of an issue as you are making out of it. They are extremely good. Both PVE and PVP can get them.<span style="color: #ff0000;"> They do not do massive single target damage, so they are easily healed through.</span> They parse high because they're AE, but they aren't actually 'killing' people. Removing damage procs is a bad idea, especially considering how hard it is to people already.</p></blockquote><p>yeah i bet since on zw from BG:</p><p>torrent did 40% of ur dmg</p><p>P. Rain did 35% of ur dmg</p><p>and u won zonewide</p><p>just saying <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Crismorn]

<p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Fritzzz@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>legs are already going for 5dkp. so they are trival to get.</p><p>There is a ranged / secondary item that has torrent II or III on it from hard mode mob in palace.  Sure there are more not yet found and some not mentioned. Sure there will be more released with new raid zone and heroic content.</p><p>Allowing procs to do so much percentage of dps and having it so all classes can use it....is horrible.</p><p>People bring up heal procs as a counter point to this - the thing is those heal procs are for healers only or if say a mage did use it a heal proc item or a tank -- they gain very little if anything they are punished for using it (no dmg proc).  The thing with these damage procs is totally different:  they make ALL players dps increase dramatically.  That is a massive difference.  If the procs only increased mage damage dramatically it would be different, tho granted even that could be abused (a group with all casters - assuming dmg output was so great nothing could have a chance to heal through it at all - would be broken).</p><p>As stated, the dps classes (mages esp) are the ones who should be [Removed for Content] about this. </p><p>I should in fact be happy and just collect as many aoe dmg procs as possible and laugh all the way to the dps parse -- tanks are doing this already they love it.</p><p>Unfortunatly tho I think also over time everyone would move to this strategy....and it would make bgs very dull and broken.</p></blockquote><p>I do not think it is nearly as big of an issue as you are making out of it. They are extremely good. Both PVE and PVP can get them. They do not do massive single target damage, so they are easily healed through. They parse high because they're AE, but they aren't actually 'killing' people. Removing damage procs is a bad idea, especially considering how hard it is to people already.</p></blockquote><p>Damage does need to increase or healing needs to be lowered.</p><p>Neither should be done by proc's</p>

[Cigam]

<p>Hmm still not seeing it.  Did 1 mill damage in a 6 v 6.  Torrent was 2% of my damage.... and pestilance rain I & II did 6% and I am an AE class.</p>

[Somatic]

<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><p>Damage does need to increase or healing needs to be lowered.</p><p>Neither should be done by proc's</p></blockquote><p>Or simply make aoe pvp procs specific to mage classes only. </p><p>Not tanks / Not healers / No Scouts</p><p>As stated:  </p><p>Healing (to group) procs only benefit healers, that makes sense.   </p><p>Where DPS aoe procs benefit all classes by a large margin, that makes no sense.</p><p>Conclusion:</p><p>AOE dmg procs should be mage only.</p>

[Valind]

<p><cite>Fritzzz@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As stated:  </p><p>Healing (to group) procs only benefit healers, that makes sense.   </p><p>Where DPS aoe procs benefit all classes by a large margin, that makes no sense.</p></blockquote><p>What? Savage Healing. Go look it up, then tell me its useless for non-healers.</p>

[Quicksilver74]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If they nerf any of my PvE gear because of BGs that will be the end.</p></blockquote><p>^^^^^^^^^^^^^</p><p>^^^^^^^^^^^^</p><p>^^^^^^^^^^^</p><p>^^^^^^^^^^</p><p>^^^^^^^^^</p><p>^^^^^^^^</p><p>^^^^^^^</p><p>^^^^^^</p><p>^^^^^</p><p>^^^^</p><p>^^^</p><p>QFE!</p>

[Somatic]

<p><cite>Valindor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What? Savage Healing. Go look it up, then tell me its useless for non-healers.</p></blockquote><p>It was mostly on last tier items.  AOE heal procs are not that great compared to ward procs at all.  If you wanted to complain about a healing proc item you should complain about the stonewill procs, which are a bit OP.  AOE heal procs are horrible compared to ward procing items.</p><p>I've seen two items this xpac with it, a ring and a 2hnd hammer.  The hammer has a horrible damage ratio.  The ring is ok but nothing special. If they increased savage healing to do 2k-3k aoe group heals and still maintained nice melee/caster bonuses then perhaps they would also be overpowered-- but at the same time they are losing a lot of damage by doing this.</p><p>1v1s maybe it is good for scout vs scout or tank vs tank, bgs are not really about 1v1s.  I doubt it's even that great for that, if you had two scouts and gave one all heal procs and the other all damage items(vampire proc for example is much better than just an aoe heal proc)....i'm pretty sure the damage scout would win very fast.  Perhaps with tanks tho it is different.</p><p>I've tested out Savage healing combo with my endline aoe heal proc (inq - 2k aoe heal proc on atk 2.x times a min) the avatar of valor charm (AoE heal proc) and the ring mentioned above .... they are not worth the dps you lose.  the heals are not high enough and often proc the majority of the time when people are already at 100 percent life -- so many procs are wasted with damage procs tho no proc is wasted at all ever.  I will test it of course more as i get more items but so far i've not seen anymore worth equiping yet.  I've not yet seen a savage healing II or III item yet either.  Perhaps with 5-9 of these procs maybe it is OP - no way to test this yet.  Where the procs mentioned in this thread are totally testable now.</p><p>So I don't need to look it up this proc you speak of because I've already tested these procs myself during this xpac, it is nothing compared to the op nature of the damage procs focused on this thread.</p><p>edit:</p><p>horrible ratio on 2hnd - exageration it's alright.  It also has savage healing III-- people have parsed it on threads it usually is less than 1 percent. granted its healers doing the parse.    No tank would prob equip it.  None bid on it thats for sure.</p>

[Taldier]

<p><cite>Crabbok@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If they nerf any of my PvE gear because of BGs that will be the end.</p></blockquote><p>^^^^^^^^^^^^^</p><p>QFE!</p></blockquote><p>Pve gear is intentionally set up with completely different pve and pvp effects to prevent this.</p><p>Any time pve gear is nerfed in pve it is because the devs have decided that it needs to be for progression or because it is being exploitively used in pve.</p><p>Any time pve mechanics are changed in pve it is because they are being exploitively used in pve.</p><p>Etc, etc.</p>

[Valind]

<p><cite>Fritzzz@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Valindor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What? Savage Healing. Go look it up, then tell me its useless for non-healers.</p></blockquote><p>So I don't need to look it up this proc you speak of because I've already tested these procs myself during this xpac, it is nothing compared to the op nature of the damage procs focused on this thread.</p></blockquote><p>I didn't say it was better than anything. All i said was that it wasn't useless. A heal is a heal is a heal. Heals are not useless.</p>

[urgthock]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Orthureon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hmm sounds like you could possibly have the same thing occur that happened to most of the PVP gear in BGs. Sucks doesn't it?</p></blockquote><p>Not even remotely the same.  PvE is PvE.</p></blockquote><p>Agreed. It is not remotely the same. PvP gear still works fine in a "regular" PvP setting, it was just slightly disabled in Battlegrounds. But that is not the same as a nerf to the effectiveness of PvE gear in a "regular" PvE setting due to its effectiveness in Battlegrounds. Hopefully I made that clear enough for you to comprehend. (Aimed at Orthureon, not Gaige).</p>

[Roald]

<p>Making Torrent/Pest Rain not proc on AoE autoattacks would probably fix the problem. </p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p>I was just in a gears, I was hit to 48% by torrent alone while casting 3 buffs in the revive, Its clearly zonewide proc. I have 19.2k HP and still got hit for that much off torrent alone...</p>

[Somatic]

<p>monk in gears did 41 percent of his parse he was 2nd on parse.</p><p>beserker in gears did 38 percent of his parse he was 1st on parse.</p><p>They parsed over every mage.</p><p>Mages should be mad about these procs.</p>

[Ol]

<p>They are nerfing these items, check the test update notes</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Osik@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They are nerfing these items, check the test update notes</p></blockquote><p>It will still be too strong, It's doing way to much damage even for the classes that don't have AE auto attacks</p>

[Avirodar]

<p>It should be changed (in BGs only) to deal either single target damage, or have the damage dealt dropped to about 20% of current values.Changes incoming on test are a step in the right direction.</p>

[Xanrn]

<p>yeah lets change all encounter spells to target only...</p><p>Oh it did alot of dmg on a berzerkers parse, its not like berzerkers have a crud ton of ae auto-attack. Oh wait they do.</p><p>Its not like monks have 12-20 seconds of 100 ae auto-attack every couple of minutes.</p><p>Oh my god how dare an encounter proc actually hit an encounter...</p><p>Also dropped to 48% by torrent alone, try equipping some elemental resist you freakin noob or atleast coming up with a convincing lie.</p><p>Its also not zone wide, gears just happens to be a -ing small zone.</p><p>Also 20% of current values is <200, so half the classes will reduce it to "fails to inflict damage" so nice plan genius.</p><p>How about you show some proof its overpowered and stop spouting hearsay, gossip and widly inflated numbers.</p><p>Where is the screenshot of your incoming damage tab with enough 700 dmg torrent hits to take 9k hp off?</p><p>Where is the screenshot of these 41% 38% parses? and I take it you were reading their parses and not yours because that would be stupid because you understand act has a limited range and torrent has a bigger range so it would inflate the numbers.</p><p>Also why the hell shouldn't Monks and Berzerkers be parsing over every mage in your match?</p><p>So BG are ment to reduce the damage of we players who raid and take time too up our dps, so we don't make underequipped underplayed classes look bad.</p>

[Avirodar]

<p><cite>Ummudien@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>yeah lets change all encounter spells to target only...<span style="color: #ff0000;">No one has asked for that. You are way out of context.</span></p><p>Oh it did alot of dmg on a berzerkers parse, its not like berzerkers have a crud ton of ae auto-attack. Oh wait they do.<span style="color: #ff0000;">Then the AE attacks should have annihilated torrent on the parse.</span></p><p>Its not like monks have 12-20 seconds of 100 ae auto-attack every couple of minutes.</p><p>Oh my god how dare an encounter proc actually hit an encounter...<span style="color: #ff0000;">Welcome to the world priests suffer. Our AE heals can not multi-proc AE heals. AE damage procs can work, so long as the damage is not absurd like the torrent proc is.</span></p><p>Also dropped to 48% by torrent alone, try equipping some elemental resist you freakin noob or atleast coming up with a convincing lie.<span style="color: #ff0000;">Your statement lacks any constructive logic.</span></p><p>Its also not zone wide, gears just happens to be a -ing small zone.<span style="color: #ff0000;">So ACT will parse the significant majority of combat, good to know!</span></p><p>Also 20% of current values is <200, so half the classes will reduce it to "fails to inflict damage" so nice plan genius.<span style="color: #ff0000;">Half the classes? Lol.  </span></p><p>How about you show some proof its overpowered and stop spouting hearsay, gossip and widly inflated numbers.<span style="color: #ff0000;">Numerous parses have already been linked on a number of threads.</span></p><p>Where is the screenshot of your incoming damage tab with enough 700 dmg torrent hits to take 9k hp off?<span style="color: #ff0000;">Not everyone plays while spamming "print screen".</span></p><p>Where is the screenshot of these 41% 38% parses? and I take it you were reading their parses and not yours because that would be stupid because you understand act has a limited range and torrent has a bigger range so it would inflate the numbers.<span style="color: #ff0000;">As already said, there has been quite a few parses posted across different threads.</span></p><p>Also why the hell shouldn't Monks and Berzerkers be parsing over every mage in your match?<span style="color: #ff0000;">Because tanks should not be topping zonewide damage output, ever. Not unless any DPS is given the same survivability, defense and utility as tanks.</span></p><p>So BG are ment to reduce the damage of we players who raid and take time too up our dps, so we don't make underequipped underplayed classes look bad.<span style="color: #ff0000;">If it is overpowered, it is overpowered. Puting in some token time to get a couple of items does not entitle you dealing almost double the zonewide damage.</span></p></blockquote><p>Thank you, your post only served to support these overpowered procs being nerfed.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Ummudien@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>yeah lets change all encounter spells to target only...</p><p>Oh it did alot of dmg on a berzerkers parse, its not like berzerkers have a crud ton of ae auto-attack. Oh wait they do.</p><p>Its not like monks have 12-20 seconds of 100 ae auto-attack every couple of minutes.</p><p>Oh my god how dare an encounter proc actually hit an encounter...</p><p>Also dropped to 48% by torrent alone, try equipping some elemental resist you freakin noob or atleast coming up with a convincing lie.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Oh really? I have no resists, This is in the exact same gear as before and not accounting for any group buffs I had, Lets see. Oh, Look, I even have 7.5% damage reduction for elemental which is infact, what torrent is!</span></p><p><img src="http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/9448/eq2000041.jpg" width="382" height="470" /></p><p>Its also not zone wide, gears just happens to be a -ing small zone. <span style="color: #ff0000;">Clearly it was zone wide, seeing as it's even in the test update notes to not be procing zonewide anymore. Well there goes your "theory"</span></p><p>Also 20% of current values is <200, so half the classes will reduce it to "fails to inflict damage" so nice plan genius.</p><p>How about you show some proof its overpowered and stop spouting hearsay, gossip and widly inflated numbers.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Is this hearsay? This is a parse of a 9:25 Fight in gears, Hukaro is a dirge, that has 0 AE auto attack. I don't know where you get this 700 Damage comes from you keep talking about, but whatever.</span></p><p><img src="http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/3492/hukarotorrent.jpg" width="1440" height="868" /></p><p>Where is the screenshot of your incoming damage tab with enough 700 dmg torrent hits to take 9k hp off?</p><p>Where is the screenshot of these 41% 38% parses? and I take it you were reading their parses and not yours because that would be stupid because you understand act has a limited range and torrent has a bigger range so it would inflate the numbers. <span style="color: #ff0000;">Actually if torrent is procing on people outside of your ACT range, its going to underestimate the damage looking at ACT, so it's actually doing more.</span></p><p>Also why the hell shouldn't Monks and Berzerkers be parsing over every mage in your match? <span style="color: #ff0000;">It's not the fact that they are outparsing them, its the fact that Torrent is almost doing all the parsing for them.</span></p><p>So BG are ment to reduce the damage of we players who raid and take time too up our dps, so we don't make underequipped underplayed classes look bad.</p></blockquote>

[Crismorn]

<p>Either Torrent gets nerfed or I'll have to aquire some piece's.</p><p>You think its bad having fighters with nasty encounter proc's?  Try fighting agianst priests with this proc.</p>

[lollipop]

<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Either Torrent gets nerfed or I'll have to aquire some piece's.</p><p>You think its bad having fighters with nasty encounter proc's?  Try fighting agianst priests with this proc.</p></blockquote><p>Go for it, least then you would be not whinning for nerfs on everything.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>lollipop wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Either Torrent gets nerfed or I'll have to aquire some piece's.</p><p>You think its bad having fighters with nasty encounter proc's?  Try fighting agianst priests with this proc.</p></blockquote><p>Go for it, least then you would be not whinning for nerfs on everything.</p></blockquote><p>There is a difference between nerfing and balancing, Just FYI</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There is a difference between nerfing and balancing, Just FYI</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Isn't the rule of thumb: "<em>nerfing is what happens to your character; balancing is what happens to someone else</em>"</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">=P</span></p>

[Shankapotomus]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>lollipop wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Either Torrent gets nerfed or I'll have to aquire some piece's.</p><p>You think its bad having fighters with nasty encounter proc's?  Try fighting agianst priests with this proc.</p></blockquote><p>Go for it, least then you would be not whinning for nerfs on everything.</p></blockquote><p>There is a difference between nerfing and balancing, Just FYI</p></blockquote><p>Ssofa... Can I get a link to that parse program you threw up there please? I've never messed with any of that since I just healed. But I see that it would be a great help to critique my game play. Or just the name of the program please?</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There is a difference between nerfing and balancing, Just FYI</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Isn't the rule of thumb: "<em>nerfing is what happens to your character; balancing is what happens to someone else</em>"</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">=P</span></p></blockquote><p>Not to me, I am having DG "nerfed" which I see as a step towards balance, it was out of line, just like zerker heal, and crusaders.</p>

[AziBam]

<p><cite>Shankapotomus@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ssofa... Can I get a link to that parse program you threw up there please? I've never messed with any of that since I just healed. But I see that it would be a great help to critique my game play. Or just the name of the program please?</p></blockquote><p>Advanced Combat Tracker (ACT)  It's a great program.</p>

[Shankapotomus]

<p><cite>Azian@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shankapotomus@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ssofa... Can I get a link to that parse program you threw up there please? I've never messed with any of that since I just healed. But I see that it would be a great help to critique my game play. Or just the name of the program please?</p></blockquote><p>Advanced Combat Tracker (ACT)  It's a great program.</p></blockquote><p>Thanks a lot sir.</p><p>I see all this talk about different procs and abilities and believe it, but I want to see if for myself.</p>

[Corydonn]

<p>These effects are still out of hand on test and extremely out of wack on live.</p>