Fix Mages!!!!

[Amic_kithicor]

<p>They are broke SoE!!!   I went from 40+ kills every Ganak match to being lucky to get 5+. I agree that we were OP'd before, but this is just stupid. BG matches are boreing now cause it takes 2 months to kill anyone. Open your eyes and see that the only people saying its working fine are non mages,,,,,,ummm duh!!!     Im fine with getting destroyed if a scout gets within range of me,,,but its crap that even root nukeing i cant kill them because they break it then own me a little then my next one gets resisted and bam im done.   pls k thnx..........</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

Another bad mage that was over inflated by the broken mechanics and is not back down to earth and wondering why they are good anymore. Nothing to see here. Move along

[Amic_kithicor]

<p>yeah right,,,bad mage thats it.  What class are you? just curious</p>

[leliloe]

<p>Every class now can work on reducing the magical damages, by buffs, and by gear. SoE should add physical mitigation to caster jewelry, then <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>We can't kill them? they can't kill us. Period.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>leliloe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Every class now can work on reducing the magical damages, by buffs, and by gear. SoE should add physical mitigation to caster jewelry, then <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>We can't kill them? they can't kill us. Period.</p></blockquote><p>I believe now every healer has at least 1 Mit Buff for the group, Guardians buff mit also I believe, Sigil Red adorn, Sorcs AA lines, and many others, There are ways to reduce Physical damage too.</p><p>For the record, I mainly play my Templar and Mystic. It was not even super well geared casters hitting me for 8k Ball of Flames when I was sitting at 75% elemental resists and 220 Toughness when I realised how utterly overpowered they were and knew when they fixed it there would be so many posts like this, "Wow, I used to be able to click 1, Maybe 2 Buttons, and kill almost anyone, ZOMGZ I have to actually do more now"</p>

[Aleste]

Wow lol bgs were broken with one shotting mages. The matches are meant to last long hence the long timmers. Sorcs got use to oneshotting people and are now peved they cant. As for the plus mit umm theres enough defensive aa's to go around for mages as is.

[Aleste]

<cite>Slinco@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>They are broke SoE!!!   I went from 40+ kills every Ganak match to being lucky to get 5+. I agree that we were OP'd before, but this is just stupid. BG matches are boreing now cause it takes 2 months to kill anyone. Open your eyes and see that the only people saying its working fine are non mages,,,,,,ummm duh!!!     Im fine with getting destroyed if a scout gets within range of me,,,but its crap that even root nukeing i cant kill them because they break it then own me a little then my next one gets resisted and bam im done.   pls k thnx..........</p></blockquote> And a word of advice run a toon on a pvp server twink up and pvp for a month or so to learn your class in a pvp setting. Theres a reason ppl were afraid of naggy premades before their gear got nerfed. (btw its a chump move to nerf some players gear and leave others intact).... just sayin

[Aleste]

<p>I meant sorcs because they have been the problem child of the mage class i admit all other mages can use a small dmg buff, but the ranger isnt killing anyone in 1 hit and if you reach a ranger they can be killed sorcs for the past few weeks have been unkillable. To top it off they have been bragging in bgs about oneshotting ppl/groups. Kinda got what theydeserve with the fix.</p>

[goryf]

<p><cite>leliloe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Every class now can work on reducing the magical damages, by buffs, and by gear. SoE should add physical mitigation to caster jewelry, then <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>We can't kill them? they can't kill us. Period.</p></blockquote><p>HELL NO! The toughness is your mit in BG. get the BG gear and your good. us tanks have to worry about your danger zone which is at a distance. we have to walk through your kill zone to get up close for ours. if they add phy mit to casters and scouts then at least add PvE crit mit to the plate mail. maybe 5% on chest and legs, 2.5% on shoulders helm and boots, and 1% on wrist and gloves. you want some things on caster jewlry? make it same for tanks. 1% per jewlery. now you can make it to where the crit mit negates itself in BG so it is strickly on PvE encounters. not nearly as much crit mit as raiders but enough to where we are instance tanks. BG gear for casters is nice both in PvP and PvE. tanks are PvP only.</p>

[Amic_kithicor]

<p>read my post,,,im not asking to 1 shot people again,,,,but if i get my entire spell rotation off on a single target they should be dead if there not being healed....as of now they just stand there and keep fighting. Is that seriously how this is supposed to work?   Maybe a naggy wizzy can comment on this?</p>

[Amic_kithicor]

<p>Yeah and now we get killed fast and cant kill the attacker,,,yeah that will put us in our place awsome job</p>

[Taldier]

<p><cite>Slinco@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>read my post,,,im not asking to 1 shot people again,,,,but if i get my entire spell rotation off on a single target they should be dead if there not being healed....as of now they just stand there and keep fighting. Is that seriously how this is supposed to work?</p></blockquote><p>Kinda.  I can hit a properly specced wizard wearing cloth armor with every combat art I have twice and they wont be dead yet.  So yeah, its kinda supposed to take more than 2 buttons to kill people.</p>

[Aleste]

<p>Mages still kill ppl. Start a lowb on naggy or vox and ask a good mage there im sure they wil help you out.</p>

[Novusod]

<p>Mages still top the parse in a lot fights. They just don't get the one shot kills anymore and that is the way it should be.</p>

[crumpledmonkey]

<p>ok as a mage running around one shotting people was fun and i understand the nerf, dont like it but understand it. My question is how many shots should i be allowed to kill scouts. Scouts and tanks when they get close to me kill me fast with auto attacks i am fine with that. The problem is it now take me about 5 or six shots to kill a scout , if i dont get resisted. Resist rates are a diffrent post all together.</p><p>so for you scouts that can kill me in about 5 seconds with auto attack should i be able two 2 shot you, 3 shot you, or now like it is 5 or six shot you what do you think is fair.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p>Stop it, You guys are getting 15% back, That should be more than enough. Wait and see and stop complaining about it taking a spell rotation to kill someone.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Stop it, You guys are getting 15% back, That should be more than enough. Wait and see and stop complaining about it taking a spell rotation to kill someone.</p></blockquote><p>15% will add a whopping 150 damage to my two single target big hitters that do around 1k each. It will add 75 to the first tick of my AOE dot,and 30 to the 5 ticks after that currently hit for 200..and that's being generous. 15% is not enough to make any kind of difference as a CONJUROR. 50% of what I'm doing now would be more reasonable,though it wouldn't fix Summoner's completely. We might be able to DPS then,but we'd still have zero survivability,and don't tell me to kite,because the only people who think kiting is a viable option for a mage,are the meleers who have absolutely zero trouble killing a mage that tries to kite them.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Stop it, You guys are getting 15% back, That should be more than enough. Wait and see and stop complaining about it taking a spell rotation to kill someone.</p></blockquote><p>15% will add a whopping 150 damage to my two single target big hitters that do around 1k each. It will add 75 to the first tick of my AOE dot,and 30 to the 5 ticks after that currently hit for 200..and that's being generous. 15% is not enough to make any kind of difference as a CONJUROR. 50% of what I'm doing now would be more reasonable,though it wouldn't fix Summoner's completely. We might be able to DPS then,but we'd still have zero survivability,and don't tell me to kite,because the only people who think kiting is a viable option for a mage,are the meleers who have absolutely zero trouble killing a mage that tries to kite them.</p></blockquote><p>How much does EB do? How much does Toxicity Do? What's your sustained DPS, it doesn't matter if you kill them flat out.</p>

[Armawk]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>How much does EB do? How much does Toxicity Do? What's your sustained DPS, it doesn't matter if you kill them flat out.</p></blockquote><p>reposted:</p><p>Conjuror in 80-89:</p><p>Maximum hit by elemental blast.. 1049</p><p>Maximum hit by earthquake..  900</p><p>Maximum hit by crystal blast.. 780</p><p>Im not even going to post the numbers on my encounter damage spells. insignificant. (unless 150 damage is going to hurt yall much)</p><p>Bewilderment appears to be my best damage spell now. sheesh.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Stop it, You guys are getting 15% back, That should be more than enough. Wait and see and stop complaining about it taking a spell rotation to kill someone.</p></blockquote><p>15% will add a whopping 150 damage to my two single target big hitters that do around 1k each. It will add 75 to the first tick of my AOE dot,and 30 to the 5 ticks after that currently hit for 200..and that's being generous. 15% is not enough to make any kind of difference as a CONJUROR. 50% of what I'm doing now would be more reasonable,though it wouldn't fix Summoner's completely. We might be able to DPS then,but we'd still have zero survivability,and don't tell me to kite,because the only people who think kiting is a viable option for a mage,are the meleers who have absolutely zero trouble killing a mage that tries to kite them.</p></blockquote><p>How much does EB do? How much does Toxicity Do? What's your sustained DPS, it doesn't matter if you kill them flat out.</p></blockquote><p>On a full toughness toon with 50% potency on a non-crit,I've seen EB hit for 200 per tick. The norm now on a non-crit is about 500 per tick. I've seen it do 1200-ish per tick on a crit. 1200x5=6000 Which is about 35-40% of someone's health. I'm happy with EB doing that much damage.</p><p>Elemental toxicity is a joke now IMO. The proc does around 20-60 damage.</p><p>Sustained DPS? Not sure,but I imagine it's well below 2k,considering 3/4s of my spells are now hitting for under 800 damage. If a group is standing near their healer,and that healer is healing..my spells will not make any noticeable difference on their entire group. AOE they might drop to 97% but heal back to 100% immediately..Single target I might drop someone to 90% with a 1k nuke,but they will immediately be healed up.</p><p>Conjurors have ZERO spike damage,which,regardless of what people think,is NECESSARY in PVP..Without spike damage..no one will die.</p><p>The problem is,that Summoners have lost their ability to do spike damage,while scouts and even tanks(both in the form of auto attacks and CA's that were not affected at all by this change) have retained that ability. Ontop of that,summoner's have zero survivability,and are the easier class in the game to kill,and there can be no argument about that. Without the ability to kite,summoners have no way to keep melee off of them,and no defensive abilities(Sorceror damage reduction by 250 damage,as well as the 1500 points or so worth of regenerating wards) to keep them selves alive while that meleer beats on them.</p><p>Can you see why I'm upset yet?</p>

[Novusod]

<p>I don't know what you are talking about I am not a scout or ranger. Never seen a ranger one shot anyone and never really been afraid of rangers before. Rangers might be good at picking off people who run off on their own. Rangers are little more than an annoyance with their snares. Have your tank taunt the ranger and stay near your tank and healer. Anyway this is not about rangers it is about observing that mages can still parse if they are good. Even a necro can parse over a million if they have the support of their team.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Stop it, You guys are getting 15% back, That should be more than enough. Wait and see and stop complaining about it taking a spell rotation to kill someone.</p></blockquote><p>15% will add a whopping 150 damage to my two single target big hitters that do around 1k each. It will add 75 to the first tick of my AOE dot,and 30 to the 5 ticks after that currently hit for 200..and that's being generous. 15% is not enough to make any kind of difference as a CONJUROR. 50% of what I'm doing now would be more reasonable,though it wouldn't fix Summoner's completely. We might be able to DPS then,but we'd still have zero survivability,and don't tell me to kite,because the only people who think kiting is a viable option for a mage,are the meleers who have absolutely zero trouble killing a mage that tries to kite them.</p></blockquote><p>How much does EB do? How much does Toxicity Do? What's your sustained DPS, it doesn't matter if you kill them flat out.</p></blockquote><p>On a full toughness toon with 50% potency on a non-crit,I've seen EB hit for 200 per tick. The norm now on a non-crit is about 500 per tick. I've seen it do 1200-ish per tick on a crit. 1200x5=6000 Which is about 35-40% of someone's health. I'm happy with EB doing that much damage.</p><p>Elemental toxicity is a joke now IMO. The proc does around 20-60 damage.</p><p>Sustained DPS? Not sure,but I imagine it's well below 2k,considering 3/4s of my spells are now hitting for under 800 damage. If a group is standing near their healer,and that healer is healing..my spells will not make any noticeable difference on their entire group. AOE they might drop to 97% but heal back to 100% immediately..Single target I might drop someone to 90% with a 1k nuke,but they will immediately be healed up.</p><p>Conjurors have ZERO spike damage,which,regardless of what people think,is NECESSARY in PVP..Without spike damage..no one will die.</p><p>The problem is,that Summoners have lost their ability to do spike damage,while scouts and even tanks(both in the form of auto attacks and CA's that were not affected at all by this change) have retained that ability. Ontop of that,summoner's have zero survivability,and are the easier class in the game to kill,and there can be no argument about that. Without the ability to kite,summoners have no way to keep melee off of them,and no defensive abilities(Sorceror damage reduction by 250 damage,as well as the 1500 points or so worth of regenerating wards) to keep them selves alive while that meleer beats on them.</p><p>Can you see why I'm upset yet?</p></blockquote><p>It is and never will be a summoner's role to have spike DPS, You are sustained DPS, always have been by class. As long as you put out constant DPS that is enough to force a healer to heal, Thats what it should be.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't know what you are talking about I am not a scout or ranger. Never seen a ranger one shot anyone and never really been afraid of rangers before. Rangers might be good at picking off people who run off on their own. Rangers are little more than an annoyance with their snares. Have your tank taunt the ranger and stay near your tank and healer. Anyway this is not about rangers it is about observing that mages can still parse if they are good. Even a necro can parse over a million if they have the support of their team.</p></blockquote><p>I literally turned the rangers auto attack on against a conjuror and he dropped from 100% health down to under 10% immediately and died to one CA after that.</p><p>No one is saying that mage's can't parse. I've done a 600k parse on my conjuror and was second,to a tank by the way. Sorcerors are fine where they are now..I'm talking about Conjurors. As a conjuror,I have ZERO ABILITY TO SPIKE DAMAGE anyone. No spike damage=no one dieing. And yet,scouts and tanks have retained this ability to spike damage people. If I cannot do spike damage,how am I supposed to kill anyone? As I said,my AOE dot is a complete joke that doesn't even hurt the enemy,and my single target big hitter barely drops anyone's health.</p><p>Solo survivability is another story. One on one,I have no method of preventing a melee class from getting ontop of me and killing me. if I try to run,they follow me and auto attack me to death,if I try to kite,they snare or sprint and stay on my tail,auto attacking me to death while I cast nothing,and my pet does a meager 200 damage per spell.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Stop it, You guys are getting 15% back, That should be more than enough. Wait and see and stop complaining about it taking a spell rotation to kill someone.</p></blockquote><p>15% will add a whopping 150 damage to my two single target big hitters that do around 1k each. It will add 75 to the first tick of my AOE dot,and 30 to the 5 ticks after that currently hit for 200..and that's being generous. 15% is not enough to make any kind of difference as a CONJUROR. 50% of what I'm doing now would be more reasonable,though it wouldn't fix Summoner's completely. We might be able to DPS then,but we'd still have zero survivability,and don't tell me to kite,because the only people who think kiting is a viable option for a mage,are the meleers who have absolutely zero trouble killing a mage that tries to kite them.</p></blockquote><p>How much does EB do? How much does Toxicity Do? What's your sustained DPS, it doesn't matter if you kill them flat out.</p></blockquote><p>On a full toughness toon with 50% potency on a non-crit,I've seen EB hit for 200 per tick. The norm now on a non-crit is about 500 per tick. I've seen it do 1200-ish per tick on a crit. 1200x5=6000 Which is about 35-40% of someone's health. I'm happy with EB doing that much damage.</p><p>Elemental toxicity is a joke now IMO. The proc does around 20-60 damage.</p><p>Sustained DPS? Not sure,but I imagine it's well below 2k,considering 3/4s of my spells are now hitting for under 800 damage. If a group is standing near their healer,and that healer is healing..my spells will not make any noticeable difference on their entire group. AOE they might drop to 97% but heal back to 100% immediately..Single target I might drop someone to 90% with a 1k nuke,but they will immediately be healed up.</p><p>Conjurors have ZERO spike damage,which,regardless of what people think,is NECESSARY in PVP..Without spike damage..no one will die.</p><p>The problem is,that Summoners have lost their ability to do spike damage,while scouts and even tanks(both in the form of auto attacks and CA's that were not affected at all by this change) have retained that ability. Ontop of that,summoner's have zero survivability,and are the easier class in the game to kill,and there can be no argument about that. Without the ability to kite,summoners have no way to keep melee off of them,and no defensive abilities(Sorceror damage reduction by 250 damage,as well as the 1500 points or so worth of regenerating wards) to keep them selves alive while that meleer beats on them.</p><p>Can you see why I'm upset yet?</p></blockquote><p>It is and never will be a summoner's role to have spike DPS, You are sustained DPS, always have been by class. As long as you put out constant DPS that is enough to force a healer to heal, Thats what it should be.</p></blockquote><p>And yet there are TANKS that are putting out large amounts of DPS,while at the same time healing themselves for massive amounts. I'm pretty sure tanks weren't meant to be DPS/healer/meatshield hybrids,and yet that's exactly what they are.</p><p>Sustained DPS is a joke. That healer is going to be healing regardless of whether or not I'm casting.That little 3% damage I do to his group is nothing more than annoyance that really doesn't even merit casting a heal. You think I should be sustained DPS? Fine by me..but don't act like summoners are doing enough DPS right now to make any difference in a BG.</p>

[Taldier]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No one is saying that mage's can't parse. I've done a 600k parse on my conjuror and was second,to a tank by the way. Sorcerors are fine where they are now..I'm talking about Conjurors. As a conjuror,I have ZERO ABILITY TO SPIKE DAMAGE anyone. No spike damage=no one dieing. And yet,scouts and tanks have retained this ability to spike damage people. If I cannot do spike damage,how am I supposed to kill anyone? As I said,my AOE dot is a complete joke that doesn't even hurt the enemy,and my single target big hitter barely drops anyone's health.</p></blockquote><p>Your "no spike damage" (lol) is more spike damage than any melee can do to non-cloth wearing classes.</p><p>Im sorry that its completely game breaking for you to hit a plate tank with the same dps (plus more) that a scout hits you with.</p>

[Armawk]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It is and never will be a summoner's role to have spike DPS, You are sustained DPS, always have been by class. As long as you put out constant DPS that is enough to force a healer to heal, Thats what it should be.</p></blockquote><p>Ive been trying to play that way, pile on the dots etc.. because indeed that is the summoner way, that and stoneskins/snares/knockbacks etc but honestly? stoneskins last 2 seconds, the knockbacks from rockdrops often are resisted by the entire group. The other side dont really notice its happening its so slow. Only people who suffer anything from me seem to be isolated mages really, can generally take one of those downif they are asleep.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It is and never will be a summoner's role to have spike DPS, You are sustained DPS, always have been by class. As long as you put out constant DPS that is enough to force a healer to heal, Thats what it should be.</p></blockquote><p>Ive been trying to play that way, pile on the dots etc.. because indeed that is the summoner way, that and stoneskins/snares/knockbacks etc but honestly? stoneskins last 2 seconds, the knockbacks from rockdrops often are resisted by the entire group. The other side dont really notice its happening its so slow. Only people who suffer anything from me seem to be isolated mages really, can generally take one of those downif they are asleep.</p></blockquote><p>Basically you are chewing through wards/reactive triggers with you moderate DPS which leave the opposing group more vulnerable to the attacks of the Spike DPS. I mean, I know it's fun to see the orange numbers fly up, but you are still doing something, even if it feels like you aren't, It's actually better to hit for little damage really to blow through the reactive triggers fight, Minus when DG is up, and minor damage over a whole group chews through a group ward fast.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No one is saying that mage's can't parse. I've done a 600k parse on my conjuror and was second,to a tank by the way. Sorcerors are fine where they are now..I'm talking about Conjurors. As a conjuror,I have ZERO ABILITY TO SPIKE DAMAGE anyone. No spike damage=no one dieing. And yet,scouts and tanks have retained this ability to spike damage people. If I cannot do spike damage,how am I supposed to kill anyone? As I said,my AOE dot is a complete joke that doesn't even hurt the enemy,and my single target big hitter barely drops anyone's health.</p></blockquote><p>Your "no spike damage" (lol) is more spike damage than any melee can do to non-cloth wearing classes.</p><p>Im sorry that its completely game breaking for you to hit a plate tank with the same dps (plus more) that a scout hits you with.</p></blockquote><p>I'm sorry that you play a melee class that had to suffer at the hands of sorcerors for a couple months,but don't act like conjurors are anywhere near balanced where they are. When my AOE dot does 5-10% total of a groups health,something is wrong.</p><p>Btw. I hit tanks for about 1k tops on my big hitters. Scouts auto attack me from 1k-3k on AUTO attacks,which are pretty much going to double attack every single time..so that 2-6k in one second..throw in poison procs and gear,thats another 1k minimum. Add in a CA or two,and I'm death within a few seconds.</p><p>Go ahead and keep trying to tell me that I do more DPS than scouts..please..it's amusing. Sorcerors..Sure. They still do more DPS,but Conjurors..no. As I said earlier..I logged in my brothers ranger that I have never played,and made top 3 in every BG I did today. That's with my auto attacks hitting for 1k-3k on mages AND double attacking.</p><p>Any GOOD scout,will do twice as much DPS as a conjuror,AND have the ability to spike people down.</p><p>Btw,I am not arguing in anyway for any of the other casters..my arguments are completely for conjurors,who got completely shafted with this 'fix'</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p>Tricky, What happened to your guild!</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Tricky, What happened to your guild!</p></blockquote><p>I dropped guild and cancelled my subscription last night. I refuse to play when my class has been completely gimped(and you know it is fact) in PVP.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p>I don't think your class is broken at all, I think you go too used to resist hay day and now got knocked back down to earth and don't like it. Yes conj actually requires playing skill to do good, but it's still a solid class if in the right hands, and with the increase by 15% I believe they will be right back where they should be overall. I have never said the nerf wasn't slightly too hard, but it wasn't as hard as some are making it out to be</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't think your class is broken at all, I think you go too used to resist hay day and now got knocked back down to earth and don't like it. Yes conj actually requires playing skill to do good, but it's still a solid class if in the right hands, and with the increase by 15% I believe they will be right back where they should be overall. I have never said the nerf wasn't slightly too hard, but it wasn't as hard as some are making it out to be</p></blockquote><p>For conjurors,it was harder than you seem to think it was. Your not thinking about conjurors when you think about mage's..your thinking about sorcs.</p><p>As I already said..15% isn't going to make any real difference for the conjuror.</p><p>15% of 1k CB=150=1150 damage</p><p>15% of 500 damage shattered earth=75. The other five ticks hitting for 200+15%=230. 15% on an extremely low DPS class is not going to make any big difference.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't think your class is broken at all, I think you go too used to resist hay day and now got knocked back down to earth and don't like it. Yes conj actually requires playing skill to do good, but it's still a solid class if in the right hands, and with the increase by 15% I believe they will be right back where they should be overall. I have never said the nerf wasn't slightly too hard, but it wasn't as hard as some are making it out to be</p></blockquote><p>For conjurors,it was harder than you seem to think it was. Your not thinking about conjurors when you think about mage's..your thinking about sorcs.</p><p>As I already said..15% isn't going to make any real difference for the conjuror.</p><p>15% of 1k CB=150=1150 damage</p><p>15% of 500 damage shattered earth=75. The other five ticks hitting for 200+15%=230. 15% on an extremely low DPS class is not going to make any big difference.</p></blockquote><p>This change will put you back to where conj's were in TSO IMO, But instead of getting constant resists, you will get slightly less DPS on abilities, It's a tradeoff</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't think your class is broken at all, I think you go too used to resist hay day and now got knocked back down to earth and don't like it. Yes conj actually requires playing skill to do good, but it's still a solid class if in the right hands, and with the increase by 15% I believe they will be right back where they should be overall. I have never said the nerf wasn't slightly too hard, but it wasn't as hard as some are making it out to be</p></blockquote><p>For conjurors,it was harder than you seem to think it was. Your not thinking about conjurors when you think about mage's..your thinking about sorcs.</p><p>As I already said..15% isn't going to make any real difference for the conjuror.</p><p>15% of 1k CB=150=1150 damage</p><p>15% of 500 damage shattered earth=75. The other five ticks hitting for 200+15%=230. 15% on an extremely low DPS class is not going to make any big difference.</p></blockquote><p>This change will put you back to where conj's were in TSO IMO, But instead of getting constant resists, you will get slightly less DPS on abilities, It's a tradeoff</p></blockquote><p>Put us back to where we were in TSO? Far from it..Atleast in TSO I hit for more than 2k. I'd say this will put us back to KOS in terms of damage,while everyone else is pumping out SF damage in PVP.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p>Lets agree to disagree, You are totally forgetting the change will also effect pet damage, and you aren't the only one doing damage, it's you + your pet, Not just your nukes. The small-moderate hits do add up fast.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Lets agree to disagree, You are totally forgetting the change will also effect pet damage, and you aren't the only one doing damage, it's you + your pet, Not just your nukes. The small-moderate hits do add up fast.</p></blockquote><p>90% of my pets damage at the moment is below 500. Occasionally he'll crit and do close to a thousand. Small hits add up to nothing IMO. Small hits do not keep me alive when I'm being meleed..small hits do not kill people with a healer.Spike damage kills people. I'm supposed to be a mage. I realize I am supposed to be squishy..But I trade that defense for the ability to do big damage. That ability to do big damage was taken away,leaving me as squishy,and low DPS.</p>

[Darkonx]

<p><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Mages still top the parse in a lot fights. They just don't get the one shot kills anymore and that is the way it should be.</p></blockquote><p>The alt+s screen records damage dealt. If you are at the top, then you are likely playing your class correctly. Mages have the best spike damage against tanks and the best CC against everyone. Scouts have the best spike damage against mages and priests. Tanks have the best endurance against scouts. Priests have the most survivability out of anyone.</p>

[EvilAstroboy]

<p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Mages still top the parse in a lot fights. They just don't get the one shot kills anymore and that is the way it should be.</p></blockquote><p>The alt+s screen records damage dealt. If you are at the top, then you are likely playing your class correctly. Mages have the best spike damage against tanks and the best CC against everyone. Scouts have the best spike damage against mages and priests. Tanks have the best endurance against scouts. Priests have the most survivability out of anyone.</p></blockquote><p>Im sure thats how it works in fantasyland, however here in reality Scouts, Tanks and Battle Priests are capable of spike DPS against anyone, while Mages are not capable of spike DPS against anyone.</p><p>Everyone in the battlegrounds has max resists, its a stupid stat to balance mage damage on, if they were taking fighters down too fast then fighters should have gotten PvP gear that lowers incoming magic damage. Not make everyone invincible to mages by basing it on resists.</p>

[Muraazi]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Lets agree to disagree, You are totally forgetting the change will also effect pet damage, and you aren't the only one doing damage, it's you + your pet, Not just your nukes. The small-moderate hits do add up fast.</p></blockquote><p>90% of my pets damage at the moment is below 500. Occasionally he'll crit and do close to a thousand. Small hits add up to nothing IMO. Small hits do not keep me alive when I'm being meleed..small hits do not kill people with a healer.Spike damage kills people. I'm supposed to be a mage. I realize I am supposed to be squishy..But I trade that defense for the ability to do big damage. That ability to do big damage was taken away,leaving me as squishy,and low DPS.</p></blockquote><p>Um, conjurors have always been about steady dps not spike damage? This can't be new to you.</p>

[Armawk]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Basically you are chewing through wards/reactive triggers with you moderate DPS which leave the opposing group more vulnerable to the attacks of the Spike DPS. I mean, I know it's fun to see the orange numbers fly up, but you are still doing something, even if it feels like you aren't, It's actually better to hit for little damage really to blow through the reactive triggers fight, Minus when DG is up, and minor damage over a whole group chews through a group ward fast.</p></blockquote><p>Im trying to see it that way.. but to be honest given that what i posted were MAX figures, ie the lucky hits on unwarded players and noobs, its hard to see it as that rosey.</p><p>Im no quitter though, and Ill keep on playing and using what seems to do the  best. Group stoneskin must do some good and the snares and dots are a distraction if nothing else. Im not wasting casting time on shattered earth though with 150 damage and 1 out of 6 knockbacks.. I could do that all day and achieve nothing.</p><p>And if I want some fun Ill play my wiz, who seems pretty balanced now.</p><p>Oh and Im the first to admit elemental blast was ludicrous. I use it in pve with my duo partner just to annoy her by one shotting mobs before she can get a hit. silly silly spell.</p>

[AziBam]

<p>Interestingly enough, I had the exact same thought about my warlock that several conjurors have been expressing here.  I can still churn out a lot of dps.  I just can't kill anyone. </p><p>Last smugglers run I was in I topped the zone for damage dealt.  However, I only had six kill shots.  Top kill shots was a ranger at around 40.  I'm not saying nerf rangers by any stretch.  I'm also not trying to argue that things were fine and dandy prior to the change.  However, when I nuke a templar with apocalypse and the first hit brings him to 96%, 2nd to 93, and the rest become irrelevant after he heals once I'm not sure how exactly I'm supposed to make people actually go away.  /shrug </p>

[EverRude]

<p>Rangers are scavengers. We like to eat what others have nearly killed. I constantly tab to find the most injured target and finish it off. Warlocks and such are good a softening up a lot of targets at once.</p>

[Nulgara]

<p>I understand your point of view about your conjy.. I have one thing to say .. find a necro and ask them how they have done it from day one. Necro has NEVER had spike dmg EVER. you cant count lifeburn either cause well why help the other team kill you.</p><p>yes i have topped the dmg parse in bg's A LOT with my necro. and his average kills before the resist change was about 9 or 10. guess what can still top the dmg parse and now am more liekly to have 4 or 5 kills. I dont have a problem with that. cause making healers cure constantly and heal constantly gets their focus on one person in their group and before they know it their mages and scouts are dead as long as my tank is doing his job.</p><p>and btw i dont know what school you went to for math. but the 15% boost isnt going to be ok this guy does average 1k dmg with this spell lets add 150. its a 15% boost to the dmg listed on teh spell. which after resists is gonan come out quite a bit higher then 150 dmg.</p><p>seriosuly though, bewilderment has been the highest hitting spell necros have ever had(outside lifeburn which i already explained shoudl never be used in pvp). i dont at all feel bad that conjys in pvp now have the same issue. maybe now it will get fixed for both summoners since we all know the devs dont like necros but i figure they liek conjys a little bit hehe. our dmg per spell has bene in the gutter forever, that being said i dont think its neccessary to boost summoner dmg outside the planned 15% boost. but i absolutely think sorcerers need to share the wealth on their defensive aa and summoners and to a lesser extent chanters shoudl get some love on their magi's shielding.</p>

[Grumble69]

<p><cite>Azian@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Interestingly enough, I had the exact same thought about my warlock that several conjurors have been expressing here.  I can still churn out a lot of dps.  I just can't kill anyone. </p><p>Last smugglers run I was in I topped the zone for damage dealt.  However, I only had six kill shots.  Top kill shots was a ranger at around 40.  I'm not saying nerf rangers by any stretch.  I'm also not trying to argue that things were fine and dandy prior to the change.  However, when I nuke a templar with apocalypse and the first hit brings him to 96%, 2nd to 93, and the rest become irrelevant after he heals once I'm not sure how exactly I'm supposed to make people actually go away.  /shrug </p></blockquote><p>Yeah, kill stats are pretty much for our egos.  My brig's kills is up a lot since these changes.  In part it's due to better survivability.  But it's also due to folks like you that are dishing out the damage.  I'm like the ranger above.  I'm surveying the battle, helping finish people off, and coming back to gang up on the harder targets.  BGs has become much more team-oriented now.</p><p>Ultimately all I care about is the win.  When I play in Ganak, my stats look like I'm a real slacker.  But if I'm not going after the flag, I'm defending it with snares & stuns which don't show up in the stats.</p>

[AziBam]

<p><cite>Grumble69 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Azian@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Interestingly enough, I had the exact same thought about my warlock that several conjurors have been expressing here.  I can still churn out a lot of dps.  I just can't kill anyone. </p><p>Last smugglers run I was in I topped the zone for damage dealt.  However, I only had six kill shots.  Top kill shots was a ranger at around 40.  I'm not saying nerf rangers by any stretch.  I'm also not trying to argue that things were fine and dandy prior to the change.  However, when I nuke a templar with apocalypse and the first hit brings him to 96%, 2nd to 93, and the rest become irrelevant after he heals once I'm not sure how exactly I'm supposed to make people actually go away.  /shrug </p></blockquote><p>Yeah, <strong>kill stats are pretty much for our egos.</strong>  My brig's kills is up a lot since these changes.  In part it's due to better survivability.  But it's also due to folks like you that are dishing out the damage.  I'm like the ranger above.  I'm surveying the battle, helping finish people off, and coming back to gang up on the harder targets.  BGs has become much more team-oriented now.</p><p>Ultimately all I care about is the win.  When I play in Ganak, my stats look like I'm a real slacker.  But if I'm not going after the flag, I'm defending it with snares & stuns which don't show up in the stats.</p></blockquote><p>I agree with everything you said other than the bolded part.  If my opponent doesn't end up dead, my dps hasn't really meant anything.  The one possible exception would be on a healer, you are keeping them focused on keeping themselves alive meaning they aren't able to heal their group as much.</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I see many casters complaining that SOE shouldn't have balanced their class on the performance of sorcerers, yet they turn around and start to call for scouts to be balanced on the basis of predators... <em>riiiiiight</em>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">How am I supposed to be sympathetic to that double-standard when they are calling out for nerfs on Dirges?  For real?</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I've posted many parses showing character performance in a </span><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=476404" target="_blank">thread with uber insane scout melee damage in BeeGees </a><span style="color: #ff0000;">- just look on in envy and awe at the magnitude of the damage my scout has:</span></p><p><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/parses/Gearsparse1.jpg" /></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Look at those spike damage nukes and weep in shame, you dress-wearing finger-wigglers!!  </span></p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Post some parses showing how your characters are performing in the BeeGees, please.  Generalizations help no one. </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Or, at the very least when the new changes go to Test-copy, log over and help us parse!</span></p><p><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><em><img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/spayandneuteryourTests.jpg" /></em></span></p><p><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><em>...would you trust this guy to parse a "fix" for your class or pets?? </em></span></p>

[Cigam]

<p>Think they meant REAL scouts .. /snicker /hide  (JK btw)</p>