Ok I need to know

[ralster]

<p>Ok Sony I need to know if you are going to re-fix the resist, maybe not back like they were but jeez come on. I'am in a full set of BG armor and jewelry charms included on my wizzy and my dmg is way to low, and I get so own'd by scouts. After the "fix" I had a trouby kill me, I almost fell out of my chair. So i was going to BG gear out my Conjy but if its going to stay like this I wont waste my tokens and just BG gear out my zerker.</p><p>Plz casters dont quit screaming about the resist and what little dmg we are doing stay after it. The melee classes whined enough and got the super nerf on casters they wanted and when you see ppl *cough op SK's cough* say that it is fixed now and nothing is broken just ignore them and keep screaming, all I want is some middle ground, I dont have to one shot tanks all day but I dont want to empty my hotbar on a ranger after I get close enough while he has already been hitting me and still not stand that much of a chance.</p><p>So I thought to myself maybe I just suck, I asked a very respectable Warlock on my server if he was noticing a very big diff. in his damage, and he simply responded with "I wont play BG till they fix it and most casters will fade away from the BG scene"    </p>

[Armawk]

<p>I dont have much to say about your post, except that you appear to think troubadors should not be able to ever kill you?</p><p>Care to explain why not?</p>

[wleggett]

<p>Well according to the SK's around this is exactly how it should have been from the start. They can heal almost as good as a druid, dps way better than any mage, and survive as well as a guardian. How long has this been? Have we not learned by past results that (with the exception of crusaders) SOE makes radical kneejerk reactions. At first I was annoyed with the toughness but now I'm glad because until this crap gets fixed my wizard won't touch BG's.</p><p><img src="http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx321/eq2doc/greyscaleelf.jpg" /></p>

[Mosha D'Khan]

<p><cite>ralster wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ok Sony I need to know if you are going to re-fix the resist, maybe not back like they were but jeez come on. I'am in a full set of BG armor and jewelry charms included on my wizzy and my dmg is way to low, and I get so own'd by scouts. After the "fix" I had a trouby kill me, I almost fell out of my chair. So i was going to BG gear out my Conjy but if its going to stay like this I wont waste my tokens and just BG gear out my zerker.</p><p>Plz casters dont quit screaming about the resist and what little dmg we are doing stay after it. The melee classes whined enough and got the super nerf on casters they wanted and when you see ppl *cough op SK's cough* say that it is fixed now and nothing is broken just ignore them and keep screaming, all I want is some middle ground, I dont have to one shot tanks all day but I dont want to empty my hotbar on a ranger after I get close enough while he has already been hitting me and still not stand that much of a chance.</p><p>So I thought to myself maybe I just suck, I asked a very respectable Warlock on my server if he was noticing a very big diff. in his damage, and he simply responded with "I wont play BG till they fix it and most casters will fade away from the BG scene"    </p></blockquote><p>lol this is funny because i can hit dev fist on a mage (2-10k damage) and it is only hitting for like 1.5k so dont start wineing lol. with a 130 crit and a 45 crit bonus there is some thing wrong there when i hit a mage in cloth armor lol</p>

[Taldier]

<p><cite>ralster wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ok Sony I need to know if you are going to re-fix the resist, maybe not back like they were but jeez come on. I'am in a full set of BG armor and jewelry charms included on my wizzy and my dmg is way to low, and I get so own'd by scouts. After the "fix" I had a trouby kill me, I almost fell out of my chair. So i was going to BG gear out my Conjy but if its going to stay like this I wont waste my tokens and just BG gear out my zerker.</p></blockquote><p>All spell damage was decreased equally.  Including that of the troub who apparently kicked your teeth in.  You got owned.</p><p>Very well played troubs can be nasty.  You just never noticed it before because you were able to instantly kill anything that got within 30 meters of you.</p>

[Enoe]

<p><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>ralster wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ok Sony I need to know if you are going to re-fix the resist, maybe not back like they were but jeez come on. I'am in a full set of BG armor and jewelry charms included on my wizzy and my dmg is way to low, and I get so own'd by scouts. After the "fix" I had a trouby kill me, I almost fell out of my chair. So i was going to BG gear out my Conjy but if its going to stay like this I wont waste my tokens and just BG gear out my zerker.</p></blockquote><p>All spell damage was decreased equally.  Including that of the troub who apparently kicked your teeth in.  You got owned.</p><p>Very well played troubs can be nasty. <span style="color: #ff0000;"> You just never noticed it before because you were able to instantly kill anything that got within 30 meters of you.</span></p></blockquote><p>so true</p>

[Enoe]

<p><cite>wleggett wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well according to the SK's around this is exactly how it should have been from the start. They can heal almost as good as a druid, dps way better than any mage, and survive as well as a guardian. How long has this been? Have we not learned by past results that (with the exception of crusaders) SOE makes radical kneejerk reactions. At first I was annoyed with the toughness but now I'm glad because until this crap gets fixed my wizard won't touch BG's.</p><p><img src="http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx321/eq2doc/greyscaleelf.jpg" /></p></blockquote><p>SK are OP - if played well and foes dont know how to deal with them  but...</p><p>PALYS are OP</p><p>ZERKERS are OP</p><p>BRAWLERS are OP</p><p>RANGERS are OP</p><p>ROUGES are OP</p><p>CLERICS are OP</p><p>DRUIDS are OP</p><p>SHAMANS well ... all comes to player and gear (<3 Soloca)</p><p>Sorcerers are not so OP as they were week ago but still toping parsers when played right and in proper grp.</p><p>Same goes to other casters tbh.</p><p>So it leave us with poor guardians and bards not being OP classes... well skilled trub can be amazing... so dirges and guards only are not OP classes?</p>

[Aleste]

<p><cite>ralster wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ok Sony I need to know if you are going to re-fix the resist, maybe not back like they were but jeez come on. I'am in a full set of BG armor and jewelry charms included on my wizzy and my dmg is way to low, and I get so own'd by scouts. After the "fix"<strong> I had a trouby kill me</strong>, I almost fell out of my chair. So i was going to BG gear out my Conjy but if its going to stay like this I wont waste my tokens and just BG gear out my zerker.</p><p>Plz casters dont quit screaming about the resist and what little dmg we are doing stay after it. The melee classes whined enough and got the super nerf on casters they wanted and when you see ppl *cough op SK's cough* say that it is fixed now and nothing is broken just ignore them and keep screaming, all I want is some middle ground, I dont have to one shot tanks all day but I dont want to empty my hotbar on a ranger after I get close enough while he has already been hitting me and still not stand that much of a chance.</p><p>So I thought to myself maybe I just suck, I asked a very respectable Warlock on my server if he was noticing a very big diff. in his damage, and he simply responded with "I wont play BG till they fix it and most casters will fade away from the BG scene"   </p></blockquote><p>What are troubs just buff bots? You just got owned by a more skilled player. Troubs use magic damage also so they took a hit by the resists just like you. You notice it more since it takes you longer to cast and they can melee on you. Time to readjust and suck it up like everyone else has been for the past few weeks.</p>

[leliloe]

<p><cite>Aleste wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What are troubs just buff bots? You just got owned by a more skilled player. Troubs use magic damage also so they took a hit by the resists just like you. You notice it more since it takes you longer to cast and they can melee on you. Time to readjust and suck it up like everyone else has been for the past few weeks.</p></blockquote><p>Would really love to know how much spells are important for an average troub... 50% of their dps, or something like this comes from autoattack with DA? i don't really know, but i would be pleased to know that <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Same for supposed nerfed dps for crusaders. Sure, sure... good idea to compare classes that 100% rely on spell dps, with huge casting times that need to stay without moving at all, wearing cloth, and without physical mitigation, to other classes that can mitigate all kind of damage, can do some damage while running, can heal themselves, bla bla bla...</p><p>As someone said in another post, and unfortunately (because it seems that this is the only way to get something from soe), casters (all casters, not only sorcerers) should (and will) keep whining as fighters and scouts did the last 2 months, until melee classes, and especially fighters, get a huge nerf (hooooo, sorry, i should say a "fix", casters didn't get nerfed, they just have been fixed). <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Until this happens, well, play an alt and enjoy the flavour of the month !</p>

[Taldier]

<p><cite>leliloe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As someone said in another post, and unfortunately (because it seems that this is the only way to get something from soe), casters (all casters, not only sorcerers) should (and will) keep whining as fighters and scouts did the last 2 months, until melee classes, and especially fighters, get a huge nerf (hooooo, sorry, <span style="text-decoration: underline;">i should say a "fix",</span> casters didn't get nerfed, they just have been fixed). <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Until this happens, well, play an alt and enjoy the flavour of the month !</p></blockquote><p>It was a fix.  Resists doing nothing was a bug which occured at xpac release.  Anyone who experienced pvp before and after the xpac could tell you that it was a bug.  Spell damage should now probably get a small percentage increase because the formula mitigates a slightly higher percentage of damage than it should.</p><p>That doesnt change the fact that the resists being divided by a mult and thus not gaining any effect from additional resists, was indeed a bug which was fixed.</p><p>There is currently another bug (bug as in dramatic mechanic change not reported by soe) related to fighter flat damage reduction which I have mentioned several times and told a dev about.  Hopefully that will be eventually fixed as well.</p><p>All the QQ from mages about being "nerfed" when their pvp experience is a couple months in an extremely buggy bg right after soe completely borked the pvp ruleset is hilarious.</p>

[Aleste]

<p><cite>leliloe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aleste wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What are troubs just buff bots? You just got owned by a more skilled player. Troubs use magic damage also so they took a hit by the resists just like you. You notice it more since it takes you longer to cast and they can melee on you. Time to readjust and suck it up like everyone else has been for the past few weeks.</p></blockquote><p>Would really love to know how much spells are important for an average troub... 50% of their dps, or something like this comes from autoattack with DA? i don't really know, but i would be pleased to know that <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Same for supposed nerfed dps for crusaders. Sure, sure... good idea to compare classes that 100% rely on spell dps, with huge casting times that need to stay without moving at all, <strong>wearing cloth, and without physical mitigation</strong>, to other classes that can mitigate all kind of damage, can do some damage while running, can heal themselves, bla bla bla...</p><p>As someone said in another post, and unfortunately (because it seems that this is the only way to get something from soe), casters (all casters, not only sorcerers) should (and will) keep whining as fighters and scouts did the last 2 months, until melee classes, and especially fighters, get a huge nerf (hooooo, sorry, i should say a "fix", casters didn't get nerfed, they just have been fixed). <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Until this happens, well, play an alt and enjoy the flavour of the month !</p></blockquote><p>A good troub and dirge use spells/ca's and auto attack. The problem with "Mages" was the combo of oneshot kills and high defense. I dont care if their damage gets upped a bit long as Sorcs are not running around tanking. Which they were and I dont think anyone can deny that. I'll be the first to admit non wizzy/lock casters got screwed but other classes took hits also.</p><p>p.s Imo kiting is a huge part of playing a bard well in bg/pvp/solo so idk man the resists effect the cc also.</p><p>look at the bold print..</p>

[leliloe]

<p><cite>Aleste wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>A good troub and dirge use spells/ca's and auto attack. The problem with "Mages" was the combo of oneshot kills and high defense. I dont care if their damage gets upped a bit long as Sorcs are not running around tanking. Which they were and I dont think anyone can deny that. I'll be the first to admit non wizzy/lock casters got screwed but other classes took hits also.</p></blockquote><p>I totally agree with that, and i don't think coming back to the prefix is what is needed, at least for sorcerers. But seriously, spending 3 sec of casting to amazingly hit a scout for 1.5k damage with a sorcerer that is full BG geared and mastered, when the said scout hits you for 4-8k while only autoattacking you is.... well, let's say fun? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p><p>I won't even talk about our dps on tanks, this is too hilarious to see them whining about how OP casters are.</p>

[Darkonx]

<p><cite>leliloe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aleste wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>A good troub and dirge use spells/ca's and auto attack. The problem with "Mages" was the combo of oneshot kills and high defense. I dont care if their damage gets upped a bit long as Sorcs are not running around tanking. Which they were and I dont think anyone can deny that. I'll be the first to admit non wizzy/lock casters got screwed but other classes took hits also.</p></blockquote><p>I totally agree with that, and i don't think coming back to the prefix is what is needed, at least for sorcerers. But seriously, spending 3 sec of casting to amazingly hit a scout for 1.5k damage with a sorcerer that is full BG geared and mastered, when the said scout hits you for 4-8k while only autoattacking you is.... well, let's say fun? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p><p>I won't even talk about our dps on tanks, this is too hilarious to see them whining about how OP casters are.</p></blockquote><p>Your dps on scouts, and your dps on tanks, is no different. Armor class does not change magic resist</p>

[leliloe]

<p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>leliloe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aleste wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>A good troub and dirge use spells/ca's and auto attack. The problem with "Mages" was the combo of oneshot kills and high defense. I dont care if their damage gets upped a bit long as Sorcs are not running around tanking. Which they were and I dont think anyone can deny that. I'll be the first to admit non wizzy/lock casters got screwed but other classes took hits also.</p></blockquote><p>I totally agree with that, and i don't think coming back to the prefix is what is needed, at least for sorcerers. But seriously, spending 3 sec of casting to amazingly hit a scout for 1.5k damage with a sorcerer that is full BG geared and mastered, when the said scout hits you for 4-8k while only autoattacking you is.... well, let's say fun? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p><p>I won't even talk about our dps on tanks, this is too hilarious to see them whining about how OP casters are.</p></blockquote><p>Your dps on scouts, and your dps on tanks, is no different. Armor class does not change magic resist</p></blockquote><p>You're right, except the difference on hp pool, the immune abilities, the heal abilities, etc, etc. Tanks are just so weak, you know <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Darkonx]

<p><cite>leliloe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>leliloe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aleste wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>A good troub and dirge use spells/ca's and auto attack. The problem with "Mages" was the combo of oneshot kills and high defense. I dont care if their damage gets upped a bit long as Sorcs are not running around tanking. Which they were and I dont think anyone can deny that. I'll be the first to admit non wizzy/lock casters got screwed but other classes took hits also.</p></blockquote><p>I totally agree with that, and i don't think coming back to the prefix is what is needed, at least for sorcerers. But seriously, spending 3 sec of casting to amazingly hit a scout for 1.5k damage with a sorcerer that is full BG geared and mastered, when the said scout hits you for 4-8k while only autoattacking you is.... well, let's say fun? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p><p>I won't even talk about our dps on tanks, this is too hilarious to see them whining about how OP casters are.</p></blockquote><p>Your dps on scouts, and your dps on tanks, is no different. Armor class does not change magic resist</p></blockquote><p><span style="font-size: small;"><strong><em><span style="text-decoration: underline;">You're right</span></em></strong></span>, except the difference on hp pool, the immune abilities, the heal abilities, etc, etc. Tanks are just so weak, you know <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Many scouts have just as much hp as tanks. Most immune abilitys are parry/riposte, which will nerf scouts, but not you. The only one that tanks have that really hurts mages is Divine Aura. Heal abilitys are very very limited.</p>

[Aleste]

<p>So you want to take a tank down single handed? Form a strat to do so... I mean they do tank epics.</p>

[leliloe]

<p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Many scouts have just as much hp as tanks. Most immune abilitys are parry/riposte, which will nerf scouts, but not you. The only one that tanks have that really hurts mages is Divine Aura. Heal abilitys are very very limited.</p></blockquote><p>Ah, ok, very very limited as in zerkers/crusaders staying alive for 5mn with 2 groups on them in den? i totally see what you mean <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Seriously, as a sorcerer, i'm agree with the fact that something was broken before, mages shouldn't be able to one shot every class with EZ button. And i don't want to come back to the pre-"fix". But any tank (except guardians i guess) who doesn't admit today that this fix went waaaaaay too far, and just made his toon more OP than he was before will make laugh casters that have a good sense of humor, and cry those who don't. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Taldier]

<p><cite>leliloe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Many scouts have just as much hp as tanks. Most immune abilitys are parry/riposte, which will nerf scouts, but not you. The only one that tanks have that really hurts mages is Divine Aura. Heal abilitys are very very limited.</p></blockquote><p>Ah, ok, very very limited as in zerkers/crusaders staying alive for 5mn with 2 groups on them in den? i totally see what you mean <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Of course, he should have said: "very limited as long as six crappy melees arent healing them by running in and autoattacking for 5 damage"</p>

[Aleste]

<p>Study up on your foes learn their spells and counter them, dont beat on the healing zerker kite/magic damage him.</p>

[EvilAstroboy]

<p>People need to stop grouping mages together. Sorcerors could tank and one shot people - enchanters and summoners got screwed big time. My CC doesnt even land with Illuminate up, and if I root a scout and cast 20 spells at them - 15 resist and the other 5 do ~1000 damage to the scout. Then the root breaks, i try to mez, it resists and I get killed in two autoattacks.</p>

[Darkonx]

<p><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>leliloe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Many scouts have just as much hp as tanks. Most immune abilitys are parry/riposte, which will nerf scouts, but not you. The only one that tanks have that really hurts mages is Divine Aura. Heal abilitys are very very limited.</p></blockquote><p>Ah, ok, very very limited as in zerkers/crusaders staying alive for 5mn with 2 groups on them in den? i totally see what you mean <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Of course, he should have said: "very limited as long as six crappy melees arent healing them by running in and autoattacking for 5 damage"</p></blockquote><p>This is exactly right. If the crusader/berserker has way more (read, better) gear than you, then you probably wont be damaging them very much, if at all.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>leliloe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Many scouts have just as much hp as tanks. Most immune abilitys are parry/riposte, which will nerf scouts, but not you. The only one that tanks have that really hurts mages is Divine Aura. Heal abilitys are very very limited.</p></blockquote><p>Ah, ok, very very limited as in zerkers/crusaders staying alive for 5mn with 2 groups on them in den? i totally see what you mean <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Of course, he should have said: "very limited as long as six crappy melees arent healing them by running in and autoattacking for 5 damage"</p></blockquote><p>This is exactly right. If the crusader/berserker has way more (read, better) gear than you, then you probably wont be damaging them very much, if at all.</p></blockquote><p>So the solution is to just not attack tanks? [Removed for Content]..why didn't I think of that before? Equally geared tank against equally geared enemies will still stay alive for at the very least 30 seconds.And more often than not,they will stay alive for a full minute or two with an entire group beating on them.</p>

[Darkonx]

<p><cite>EvilAstroboy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>People need to stop grouping mages together. Sorcerors could tank and one shot people - enchanters and summoners got screwed big time. My CC doesnt even land with Illuminate up, and if I root a scout and cast 20 spells at them - 15 resist and the other 5 do ~1000 damage to the scout. Then the root breaks, i try to mez, it resists and I get killed in two autoattacks.</p></blockquote><p>Two auto attacks total ~900 damage.</p>

[Darkonx]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>leliloe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Many scouts have just as much hp as tanks. Most immune abilitys are parry/riposte, which will nerf scouts, but not you. The only one that tanks have that really hurts mages is Divine Aura. Heal abilitys are very very limited.</p></blockquote><p>Ah, ok, very very limited as in zerkers/crusaders staying alive for 5mn with 2 groups on them in den? i totally see what you mean <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Of course, he should have said: "very limited as long as six crappy melees arent healing them by running in and autoattacking for 5 damage"</p></blockquote><p>This is exactly right. If the crusader/berserker has way more (read, better) gear than you, then you probably wont be damaging them very much, if at all.</p></blockquote><p>So the solution is to just not attack tanks? [Removed for Content]..why didn't I think of that before? Equally geared tank against equally geared enemies will still stay alive for at the very least 30 seconds.And more often than not,they will stay alive for a full minute or two with an entire group beating on them.</p></blockquote><p>Equally geared tanks vs equally geared enemy (1v1) yes, the tank will live more than 30s. However, 1v6, they wont live 60, much less 120s, unless they are much better than you are. If they ARE much better than you are, then yes. If a scout is much better than four people, all four people will be dead within 30s. If a mage has much better gear than four people, all four people will be dead within 20s. If a priest has much better gear than four people, they will NEVER die. So yes, a tank living 60s against four people if he has better gear, is not 'omgop!'</p>

[Taldier]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So the solution is to just not attack tanks? [Removed for Content]..why didn't I think of that before? Equally geared tank against equally geared enemies will still stay alive for at the very least 30 seconds.And more often than not,they will stay alive for a full minute or two with an entire group beating on them.</p></blockquote><p>The solution is to stop zerging the tanks with melee damage.</p><p>No tank will survive for a full minute or two while being attacked by 2-3 casters while a tank tauntlocks them and stands out of autoattack range.</p><p>Oh no, I gave away my uber anti-zerker strat.</p>

[leliloe]

<p><cite>Darkonx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So yes, a tank living 60s against four people if he has better gear, is not 'omgop!'</p></blockquote><p>But when a mage was living 60sec against 4 people because of better gear or skills, it was '"omgop fix that broken game".</p><p>It's really funny to read all the posts where tanks were crying about not being invincibles a few weeks ago, and now to read them talking about QQ, when many players (smart and honnest tanks included), admit that the fix needs more work to be readjusted. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Maybe i'll grow tired soon about this, but it's so hilarious (and easy) to make fun about people of bad faith like this, i can't <span style="color: #ff00ff;">RESIST</span> it <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Armawk]

<p>Actually I think a tank who gets caught alone by a mage should, were things perfect, be in a world of hurt unless he can keep them toe to toe.. If a mage can keep them tied down out of melee range then he should kill a tank every time. Of course if he cant keep them tied down its squishy time.</p><p>But if shoulds were woulds then something something etc. </p>

[leliloe]

<p>Yeah, i did a few more runs today, to check some spells etc.</p><p>A bruiser able to kill 5 people, and to go from 5% to 100% every few sec, a zerker (ALONE) able to take all massive RANGED hits from 2 warlocks and one wizz during 10sec, and his life was at 60% after that, a sk that can run back in ganak with the flag because he's immune to everything, and even if he wasn't he could heal himself, etc etc.</p><p>Actually, as a very clever and fair guy said, tanks are supposed to tank epics, so this is why they are, and they HAVE TO BE unkillables. Tanks should be able to take tons of damage, to heal themselves, to out dps pure dps classes, and to solo epic X4 zones too. They are tank after all.</p><p>Mages have never been supposed to have the dps to kill epics, so why should they need dps?</p><p>Let's wait for the amazing 15% modification that soe will bring in test, to see. Maybe (and i hope) that this will be enough to bring casters back to where they're supposed to be (but i doubt it for non sorcerers). But that will not change anything about those poor little whiny weak things called fighters.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Aleste]

<p>Lol i did say they tank epics... meaning they should be hard to kill. But everyone should be killable tanks and healers should just take a bit longer if they knew what they were doing. Back in the old days of pvp healers would out last you. Till you were left with auto attack before they killed you unless you locked them down or nuked through it. And most classes had to kite tanks. Plate classes couldnt whip out crazy damage while tanking but now they can. Come to think of it brigs use to be tank killers wonder what happened.</p>

[ntommyb]

<p><cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I dont have much to say about your post, except that you appear to think troubadors should not be able to ever kill you?</p><p>Care to explain why not?</p></blockquote><p>On my warden I've lost three fair one v ones in two years of playing him, one vs a troub one vs Elwin (decked out paladin just owned me in 4 or 5 shots) and one wizard with crazy burst.  The troub shocked me thats a wicked class if its played right but its just completely garbage most of the time</p>

[Gorgamorph]

<p><cite>leliloe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yeah, i did a few more runs today, to check some spells etc.</p><p>A bruiser able to kill 5 people, and to go from 5% to 100% every few sec, a zerker (ALONE) able to take all massive RANGED hits from 2 warlocks and one wizz during 10sec, and his life was at 60% after that, a sk that can run back in ganak with the flag because he's immune to everything, and even if he wasn't he could heal himself, etc etc.</p><p>Actually, as a very clever and fair guy said, tanks are supposed to tank epics, so this is why they are, and they HAVE TO BE unkillables. Tanks should be able to take tons of damage, to heal themselves, to out dps pure dps classes, and to solo epic X4 zones too. They are tank after all.</p><p>Mages have never been supposed to have the dps to kill epics, so why should they need dps?</p><p>Let's wait for the amazing 15% modification that soe will bring in test, to see. Maybe (and i hope) that this will be enough to bring casters back to where they're supposed to be (but i doubt it for non sorcerers). But that will not change anything about those poor little whiny weak things called fighters.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>In 6 years I  have never seen  an update effect a class more than this recent change. If this is truely to be the accepted norm then I can't imagine what incentive there is to play a sorc in pvp.</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Gorgamorph wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>leliloe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yeah, i did a few more runs today, to check some spells etc.</p><p>A bruiser able to kill 5 people, and to go from 5% to 100% every few sec, a zerker (ALONE) able to take all massive RANGED hits from 2 warlocks and one wizz during 10sec, and his life was at 60% after that, a sk that can run back in ganak with the flag because he's immune to everything, and even if he wasn't he could heal himself, etc etc.</p><p>Actually, as a very clever and fair guy said, tanks are supposed to tank epics, so this is why they are, and they HAVE TO BE unkillables. Tanks should be able to take tons of damage, to heal themselves, to out dps pure dps classes, and to solo epic X4 zones too. They are tank after all.</p><p>Mages have never been supposed to have the dps to kill epics, so why should they need dps?</p><p>Let's wait for the amazing 15% modification that soe will bring in test, to see. Maybe (and i hope) that this will be enough to bring casters back to where they're supposed to be (but i doubt it for non sorcerers). But that will not change anything about those poor little whiny weak things called fighters.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>In 6 years I  have never seen  an update effect a class more than this recent change. If this is truely to be the accepted norm then I can't imagine what incentive there is to play a sorc in pvp.</p></blockquote><p>So you think things were fair in BGs before the resist change?</p>